Speaker 1: It's on Boston, all right, welcome back. We have touched
Speaker 1: on this topic before, but we haven't talked about reparations. Recently,
Speaker 1: joining me is Reverend Kevin Peterson, who has been an
Speaker 1: advocate for reparations for slavery and also has been an
Speaker 1: advocate for changing the name of Fannel Hall because it's
Speaker 1: named after Peter Fannel, a Bostonian from the middle of
Speaker 1: the eighteenth century who owned slaves. Reverend Peterson, welcome back
Speaker 1: to Nightside.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Dan. I'm glad to be back on again.
Speaker 1: I know that you were involved in an event on
Speaker 1: Saturday at the Arlington Street Church and I was surprised
Speaker 1: how well and I was disappointed, But I don't know
Speaker 1: how you felt about it. Can generate. The only media
Speaker 1: coverage that I could see if it was some coverage
Speaker 1: from WBZ news radio. It looked as if the local
Speaker 1: TV stations in both The Globe and The Herald chose
Speaker 1: not to cover the event. Did I miss a coverage that?
Speaker 1: Because I was looking today to try to do a
Speaker 1: little research on it, I couldn't find anything other than
Speaker 1: the WBZ news report.
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you didn't miss the coverage that scantily appeared
Speaker 2: related to this very historic event on Friday.
Speaker 1: Let me for folks who might have missed it, I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask Rob to play cut thirty six. This
Speaker 1: was Kendall Mule's wrap, just to kind of set it
Speaker 1: up so people know what we're talking about and then
Speaker 1: we can get into get into the issues. Why don't
Speaker 1: you play cut thirty six please? Rob?
Speaker 3: There was a dark history behind many of the points
Speaker 3: of light that are Boston's churches.
Speaker 4: White churches in Boston were founded really in the colonial
Speaker 4: era on the proceeds of the slave trade.
Speaker 3: That's Reverend John Gibbons with other members of Boston's white
Speaker 3: clergy gathered at the Arlington Street Church to sign an
Speaker 3: atonement statement formally apologizing for their church's complicity and slavery
Speaker 3: and its legacy. Also, it's anywhere black faith leaders who
Speaker 3: signed the document his witnesses, among them Reverend Kevin Peterson,
Speaker 3: who calls this an important first step.
Speaker 4: The second part is reparations, restoring what is owed to
Speaker 4: those who were harmed. And then the third part of
Speaker 4: this process is reconciliation to come in together of whites
Speaker 4: and blacks.
Speaker 3: Peterson says today's proceedings are the first of their kind
Speaker 3: in the nation's history. Kendall Bulden w Busy Boston's news.
Speaker 1: Radio, so that this was Saturday after I guess it
Speaker 1: was Saturday afternoon. It was an indoor events, so I'm
Speaker 1: not sure what time lest I think it was Saturday afternoon.
Speaker 1: And there was a letter, a pretty long statement called
Speaker 1: the Confession of Spiritual Sin and a call to sacred atonement,
Speaker 1: reparations and reconciliation from predominantly white churches in metropolitan Boston. Kevin,
Speaker 1: how many churches were represented at the ceremony on Saturday?
Speaker 2: It was just syh of forty churches, forty faith leaders,
Speaker 2: white faith leaders from uh some of some of them
Speaker 2: from the downtown churches at Boston who had a direct
Speaker 2: connection to the legacy of Lomny.
Speaker 1: Denominations were were represented? Were they mostly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say about yeah, Protestant, Protestant, No, no, no.
Speaker 2: Catholic representation of the The Catholic Church has talked about
Speaker 2: reparations and repair and addressing the evils, and.
Speaker 1: So most of the most of the churches would have
Speaker 1: dated back to I guess the the early eighteenth century.
Speaker 1: Is that you know, I'm trying to some of the
Speaker 1: church content context here.
Speaker 2: Yes, some of some of the churches date back to
Speaker 2: the colonial air where slavery existed. In those churches, including
Speaker 2: King's Chapel and Old South Church UH, the Old North Church. UH,
Speaker 2: they were involved in one way or another in the
Speaker 2: Transatlantic slave trade. Either pastors owned slaves or slaves worked
Speaker 2: in those sacred edifices, or they profited indirectly through through
Speaker 2: the sale of slaves. Other churches who signed on to
Speaker 2: this document or signing on because they were confessing the
Speaker 2: sin of being associated with the perpetuation of systemic racism
Speaker 2: over the last three centuries. So while those churches don't
Speaker 2: date back or some of those churches don't date back
Speaker 2: to the colonial area of era, they expressed apology and
Speaker 2: remorse and renouncement because during during the three centuries of
Speaker 2: of anti black oppression in Boston, they in some ways
Speaker 2: stood silent.
Speaker 1: Okay, So did I know? And again, I we've talked
Speaker 1: about this before, and I want to get to phone
Speaker 1: callers as well. I know that when we last talked,
Speaker 1: I think it was a few months ago, you and
Speaker 1: others had come up with a figure of about fifteen
Speaker 1: billion dollars and that was a figure that just for
Speaker 1: discussion purposes you felt would be an appropriate figure for
Speaker 1: Is that the city of Boston or is that easterns
Speaker 1: or New England?
Speaker 2: Yes, no, the city of Boston.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, no problem. So did any of these churches.
Speaker 1: It's one thing to sign a document. Did any of
Speaker 1: these churches make an offer of a penance? Since we
Speaker 1: put it in a spiritual sense and say, hey, well,
Speaker 1: reparations women, I'm using I'm using it kind of in
Speaker 1: the context of penance for the sins of their predecessors.
Speaker 1: And none of the ministers who signed this, I'm sure
Speaker 1: ever had anything to do directly with the slave trade,
Speaker 1: but they now represent those churches. Again, did any of
Speaker 1: them say, hey, we pledge or on behalf of our congregation,
Speaker 1: we pledge x numbers of dollars to the establishment of
Speaker 1: a fund or was it all just? And again I
Speaker 1: want to say simply, but was it all just the
Speaker 1: signing of a document lamenting what had happened without offering
Speaker 1: any again, actual financial support.
Speaker 2: The answer is simply put, Yes, there was a very
Speaker 2: great need and there's very it's ceiling. It's important for
Speaker 2: the churches to make us their first move penance acknowledgement, apology,
Speaker 2: atonement as part of the process of repair. That's reparations,
Speaker 2: that's the penance you talk about, and then we move
Speaker 2: on to reconciliation. So the dependance or the repair that's
Speaker 2: been committed is up to fifty million dollars of a
Speaker 2: commitment to from the collective of churches, most of which
Speaker 2: are connected to the slave trade translated strange thing. So
Speaker 2: it's fifty million dollars that over the next two years
Speaker 2: is forthcoming in terms of payments into Boston's black community.
Speaker 1: Okay, So you broke up with me, So it's the
Speaker 1: commitment is fifty five million dollars over the next two years.
Speaker 2: Now, in the coming years, a commitment of fifty five
Speaker 2: zero fifty millions will be committed to Boston's black community
Speaker 2: and so a number of churches, okay.
Speaker 1: And so when you say coming years, there's no is
Speaker 1: not a time specific it's at some point.
Speaker 2: Well informally, the the two undred and fiftieth anniversary of
Speaker 2: the Nation has two years from now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's where we're coming hard upon that because we
Speaker 1: got the Boston Tea Party, uh fifty anniversary of the
Speaker 1: Tea Party in December of this year. So it's a
Speaker 1: two and a half two and a half months from now.
Speaker 1: So at this point, where will that money be deposited
Speaker 1: and how will it be distributed, assuming that it actually materializes.
Speaker 2: And Uh, well, we're we're.
Speaker 1: Or if there's not a plan prepared, that's fine. I'm
Speaker 1: not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just curious.
Speaker 2: Yes, we're confident that it will materialize. Uh, these churches
Speaker 2: of the Episcopal Church, the Old South Church, others have
Speaker 2: have stated in meetings that they're prepared to make this commitment. Uh,
Speaker 2: A mechanism a has not been clearly articulated in terms
Speaker 2: of how it gets into the black community. Usage of
Speaker 2: these funds have not been clearly articulated. But we were
Speaker 2: anticipating a, you know, a historic investment in the black community.
Speaker 1: Who would be able could we make a little news
Speaker 1: here and could you share with us maybe the the
Speaker 1: the amount of the commitment of let us say, the
Speaker 1: top three churches or the top three you know religions,
Speaker 1: what has been committed specifically.
Speaker 2: No, I'm not prepared to do that at this point,
Speaker 2: but I am prepared to say I'm prepared to say
Speaker 2: with confidence that up to fifty million dollars will be
Speaker 2: invested from across the denominations, the Episcopal Church and in
Speaker 2: other Protestant churches that that date back. Kay, I will
Speaker 2: say I would say, I will say that King's Chapel
Speaker 2: is involved, in Old South Church and in Trinity Church.
Speaker 2: They're all involved in contributing to this initial pool of
Speaker 2: fifty million dollars, which will go to things like economic
Speaker 2: development and housing and maybe some cash payouts into the
Speaker 2: black community.
Speaker 1: But I just, I just you know, want to make
Speaker 1: very make clear my question. So, yes, you cannot tell
Speaker 1: us that a specific either individual church such as.
Speaker 2: Well, I won't put a number to it, but I
Speaker 2: won't put a number to it. But I will say
Speaker 2: that Old South Church, UH, Trinity and King's Chapel are
Speaker 2: churches that have that have committed to monetary offerings in
Speaker 2: wake of.
Speaker 1: Their specifically In other words, it's one thing to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we're going to try to do something. It's one thing
Speaker 1: to say we're going to make a contribution for reparations.
Speaker 2: Of this is what the church, This is what these
Speaker 2: churches are doing. Yeah, I don't want to pin a
Speaker 2: specific number on one particular church.
Speaker 1: No, No, I understand, I'm I'm just changing the question
Speaker 1: a little bit because it's to me, it's fascinating. If
Speaker 1: it's one thing for churches to sign a document or
Speaker 1: ministers to sign a document and bemoan the terrible things
Speaker 1: that happened, it's quite another then for someone to say
Speaker 1: we should raise, you know, as a start, fifty million
Speaker 1: dollars towards the figure of five billion dollars. But I
Speaker 1: just want to make sure I understand that, and if
Speaker 1: you're not prepared to answer a specific I get that,
Speaker 1: and I accept that. But a the churches Protestant churches
Speaker 1: in Boston that have said we commit X to get
Speaker 1: to fifty million dollars, there's got to be some substantial commitments.
Speaker 1: Are the names of churches and amounts on a piece
Speaker 1: of paper that you don't want to disclose to us,
Speaker 1: which I understand. But you know that this church has
Speaker 1: pledged X. This church has pledged yuh, and this church
Speaker 1: has pledged has pledged Z.
Speaker 2: That' said exactly, yes.
Speaker 1: Okay, So so you have a good idea that this
Speaker 1: fifty million can be met. Okay, great, let's let's take
Speaker 1: some phone calls. We got to take a break. My
Speaker 1: guest is Reverend Kevin Peterson. He believes that a figure
Speaker 1: of fifteen billion dollars is.
Speaker 2: Well, let me correct, Let me correct that there are
Speaker 2: two pools of money. Fifteen billion dollars is what black
Speaker 2: residents have demanded from the city of Boston and wake
Speaker 2: of their apology around the Tansilantis play trade. Another pool
Speaker 2: of money, it's fifty million dollars to which churches have committed.
Speaker 1: And oh, yeah, no, I understand that. I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: do know. I mean, I think we're very clear in
Speaker 1: the fifty million committed from the churches. Although I can't
Speaker 1: get a specifics I I do have that specific number
Speaker 1: from you, which I appreciate. And the fifteen billion dollars
Speaker 1: you have a commit a group, I believe, And if
Speaker 1: you'd like to identify the group, I think of people
Speaker 1: who have worked on this figure, and you're involved with
Speaker 1: the group who has basically identified the number of fifteen
Speaker 1: billion as what would be necessary? What is the group
Speaker 1: that has that has come.
Speaker 2: On the founder of the Boston People's Reparations Commission Gotcha,
Speaker 2: which is a grassroots organization which adds over the last
Speaker 2: year organize the black community around reparations. And we've surfaced
Speaker 2: this number of an initial fifteen billion dollar commitment.
Speaker 1: Initial, absolutely, I think that's important to emphasize, Reverend initial.
Speaker 1: Not certainly the final number would be higher than that.
Speaker 1: And and just for clarification, and I think we've discussed
Speaker 1: this before. If I'm wrong, please correct me, and then
Speaker 1: well then we'll take a very quick break. This is
Speaker 1: not something that an individual has to who lives in
Speaker 1: Boston does not have to prove that they are a
Speaker 1: direct descendant of someone who was enslaved. This fifteen billion
Speaker 1: dollars could go to benefit any member of the black
Speaker 1: community in Boston. Is I understand that or am I
Speaker 1: wrong on that?
Speaker 2: That's correct as we have it, have the calculus organized
Speaker 2: at this point. Yes, it would benefit black Bostonians across
Speaker 2: the board, right, and Will's gift at some point, will
Speaker 2: that shift at some point as we come closer to
Speaker 2: our an agreement with the City of Boston, it could
Speaker 2: shift from being a cash payout disbursement only to the
Speaker 2: descendants of slaves. So we're not fixated on the exact
Speaker 2: calcualists in terms of the payout. We also have other categories,
Speaker 2: such as five billion of fifteen billion being invested in
Speaker 2: the reconstruction of the black economic community.
Speaker 1: Let me do this. I got to take a break.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't have opened up that, but we'll have plenty
Speaker 1: of time to talk about that. I got to take
Speaker 1: a quick commercial break a little bit past where my
Speaker 1: break should be. I find this to be a very
Speaker 1: interesting subject, and again I thank you for joining us.
Speaker 1: I think it's very important. This was not covered by
Speaker 1: the newspapers, it wasn't covered by the television stations. I
Speaker 1: think it was important for your efforts to be recognized.
Speaker 1: And whether people agree or disagree, they're more than welcome
Speaker 1: to join the conversation. All I ask is polite conversation.
Speaker 1: Back on Nightside. The only lines that are open right
Speaker 1: now are six, one, seven, nine, thirty. Will be right
Speaker 1: back on Nightside.
Speaker 5: Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World,
Speaker 5: Nice Side Studios on WBZ News Radio.
Speaker 1: Reverend n this is my guest. We're going to get
Speaker 1: to phone calls. Let me start it off with I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to Scott in Quincy. Scott, welcome you
Speaker 1: at first this hour, get you in here before the
Speaker 1: news at the bottom of the hour with Reverend Kevin
Speaker 1: Peterson talking about reparations for the for the black community
Speaker 1: in Boston.
Speaker 6: Go ahead, well, great show, Dan, and interesting topic. And
Speaker 6: what I'm curious about on this whole topic is, for example,
Speaker 6: my ancestors at the same time as the slave trade
Speaker 6: was going on in Scotland, We're victims of a genocide
Speaker 6: called the Highland Clearances and fled to Nova Scotia and Canada.
Speaker 6: So it wouldn't be fair to levy part of my
Speaker 6: taxes for reparations given what my ancestors were experiencing at
Speaker 6: the same time. And then when you talk about reparations,
Speaker 6: you know the descendants of people who were harmed by slavery.
Speaker 6: There are other African populations who were the slavers who
Speaker 6: were capturing their fellow countrymen and selling them to the
Speaker 6: Dutch and the Portuguese. And then you also had the Moors,
Speaker 6: who were Muslim African Americans from North Africa who were
Speaker 6: the most prolific of slavers. How do we ensure that
Speaker 6: reparations money aren't going to the descendants of the people
Speaker 6: who did the slaving. And in a lot of ways,
Speaker 6: modern African immigrants who came here may well be the
Speaker 6: descendants of the people who did the slave trading in Africa.
Speaker 6: So there are two types of African Americans, those who
Speaker 6: were harmed by slavery and those who were enslavers. How
Speaker 6: do you ensure the right people don't get the benefits
Speaker 6: of reparations? Reverend Dan, what.
Speaker 2: Do you think? Thank you, thanks for the question. You
Speaker 2: can ensure with any specificity uh Uh at this day
Speaker 2: and age, whether or not the descendants of the enslavers
Speaker 2: will will benefit from from reparations. What we are speaking
Speaker 2: to is a generalized totalizing condition of of African Americans
Speaker 2: with regard to slavery, and we know it existed in
Speaker 2: the in this in this nation, wages were stolen, culture
Speaker 2: was stolen across the board. That was harm done to
Speaker 2: a total group of people, and totalizing people, a group
Speaker 2: of people to which there should be apology, uh, and
Speaker 2: to which there should be uh repair. That leads more
Speaker 2: importantly to the call and more importantly, this is the point.
Speaker 2: It leads to racial reconciliation of Boston and some ways
Speaker 2: is a great city, Uh, it is in other ways
Speaker 2: a victim of the history of anti blackness, which needs
Speaker 2: to be addressed so that we get to the point
Speaker 2: where blacks and whites in this great city are are
Speaker 2: reconciled and working together so that our children, our children's
Speaker 2: children enjoy a better metropolis.
Speaker 1: Go ahead, Scott, well.
Speaker 6: I get that. I get that, but you know, like
Speaker 6: I said, you know, the Spanish where something.
Speaker 1: Scott, I think I think you made that point. I think,
Speaker 1: and I think the Reverend I address that, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that probably is going to be.
Speaker 6: A gent but like I said, that's just my point.
Speaker 6: There there are people who deserve reparations and people who
Speaker 6: who don't. And uh, that's well.
Speaker 1: Amongst the black community, there's there's no way to make
Speaker 1: that distinction. And uh, I don't know how you would
Speaker 1: make the distinction, you know, within the within the black community,
Speaker 1: and so I don't know if there's any way you
Speaker 1: could suggest that, but it would be very difficult to that's
Speaker 1: that's for sure.
Speaker 6: Well, one would people who are black and Muslim be
Speaker 6: considered Moore's who were who were the descendants of slavers?
Speaker 1: You know, again, I think that he answered that question, Scott,
Speaker 1: to be honest with you, I just think that that
Speaker 1: he has put it out there in uh in in
Speaker 1: a direct fashion, and you don't have to agree with it.
Speaker 1: And I think you've made some great points that other
Speaker 1: people can think about. So thank you for the call.
Speaker 1: It is very helpful.
Speaker 6: Yes, excellent, Dan, great show, great show, Thank you.
Speaker 1: All right, I have a great night. We've got to
Speaker 1: take our news at the bottom of the hour. My
Speaker 1: name is Dan Ray. This is nice side. My guest
Speaker 1: is the Reverend Kevin Peterson, who is very much in
Speaker 1: the leadership of the reparation community here in Boston. And
Speaker 1: you've listened to him. If you'd like to ask a
Speaker 1: question or make a comment, you're welcome again. I just
Speaker 1: ask everyone to be polite. Six one, seven, two, five, four,
Speaker 1: ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty back after
Speaker 1: this on night Side.
Speaker 5: Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1: All right, my guests, we're talking about reparations for Boston's
Speaker 1: black community. Joining me tonight is Reverend Kevin Peterson. He
Speaker 1: certainly has been the leader on this issue. On Saturday,
Speaker 1: there was a meeting between people in Boston at the
Speaker 1: Park Street Church where several members of the clergy of
Speaker 1: the white Protestant community basically signed a document committing their
Speaker 1: efforts to raise funds for reparations. And according to Reverend Peterson,
Speaker 1: he has a commitment of fifteen million dollars from some
Speaker 1: of the can we call the mainline Protestant churches White
Speaker 1: Protestant churches here in Boston. Let's keep rolling here and
Speaker 1: we're going to go next to Richard, who joins us
Speaker 1: from Newton. Richard, you're next on Nightsiger, right ahead.
Speaker 2: Thanks you a very interesting subject.
Speaker 1: They had Reverend Peterson.
Speaker 2: Good evening reverend on phone. And I think your concept
Speaker 2: is very different and unique. Unfortunately, I totally disagree with it,
Speaker 2: because you know, my grandfather came here about eighteen ninety
Speaker 2: and worked in Walpole for slave wages in the factory
Speaker 2: for thirty five years, and the Chinese built railroads and
Speaker 2: they were paid nothing. And I think all the people
Speaker 2: have died in Vietnam, every one of those soldiers should
Speaker 2: get at least one hundred thousand dollars. But the problem
Speaker 2: is life is what it is and whatever happened, that's
Speaker 2: gout of history. And I think what happened in the
Speaker 2: South was very bad, and it was it was very cruel,
Speaker 2: but like anything that was history, I want to be
Speaker 2: paid for when people took advantage of me when I
Speaker 2: was a kid and I shoveled driveways for a dollar,
Speaker 2: there should have been ten dollars.
Speaker 1: By the way, just a clarification. Okay, he's not talking
Speaker 1: about what happened in the South. He's talking about what
Speaker 1: happened in Boston. I think that's important to have that focus.
Speaker 2: Okay, okay, okay. I think and what happened in Boston
Speaker 2: was there there was a certain specific harm perpetrated and
Speaker 2: perpetuated by some colonial churches. And they've admitted to the
Speaker 2: sin of holding slaves, the sin of segregating their congregations,
Speaker 2: sin of forcing black slave enslaved artisans to to to
Speaker 2: create artifacts for church services.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: They've committed those things, and they've come to the table
Speaker 2: to say that they're wrong, and they have come to
Speaker 2: say that they're going to make penance, that they're going
Speaker 2: to repair or seek to repair some of the harm
Speaker 2: harm that they're responsible for. I think that's a that's
Speaker 2: admirable and I think it's within the Judeo Christian UH ethic.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: It follows what we read in the Bible about atonement
Speaker 2: and making relationships right again or or approximatey H fairness
Speaker 2: and justice too. I think that's at But I don't
Speaker 2: think when Jesus died. He said, you know, you guys
Speaker 2: owe me fifty minion from Rome, because you know, if
Speaker 2: you guys to me, I mean, life is what it is.
Speaker 2: And I think what happened was very tough. And I
Speaker 2: think if they want to donate some money, that's fine,
Speaker 2: but I think, well.
Speaker 1: No, that that is what that's that's what he's taking you. Richard,
Speaker 1: we're talking tonight about fifty million dollars in which these
Speaker 1: churches in Boston would donate. There's there's a larger figure
Speaker 1: that will eventually get to at some point, probably in
Speaker 1: a separate conversation, about fifteen billion dollars, which is a
Speaker 1: multi which you know, you know, what's your word, it's
Speaker 1: it's a multiple of fifty million. I think the first step.
Speaker 2: Well, why not on the Irish and Italians and Japanese
Speaker 2: and Chinese deserve, because of their horrible conditions, that they.
Speaker 1: Can I think, I think the golf here.
Speaker 2: I don't think they don't get it.
Speaker 1: Richard. I'm glad you called. I'm glad you made those points,
Speaker 1: but I don't think that there's much that that you
Speaker 1: and and Reverend Peterson are going to a career upon here.
Speaker 2: I don't know how you I was just trying to
Speaker 2: give my opinion.
Speaker 7: You have, you know, Gill, let.
Speaker 1: Me get a comment from Reverend Peterson here and try
Speaker 1: to get a conversation going.
Speaker 2: He doesn't, Well, I would, I would, I would say,
Speaker 2: I would say, Richard, respectfully, respectfully, you're you're wrong on
Speaker 2: this question.
Speaker 7: Uh.
Speaker 2: The federal government apologized for to Japanese, to the Japanese
Speaker 2: for internment during the war time in World War Two,
Speaker 2: and they gave they paid penance, they gave money to Japanese.
Speaker 2: That was different. That was a war. That was a war. No, well,
Speaker 2: of course it was a war, but they perpetuated.
Speaker 1: Please give Peterson the courtesy of making his his point.
Speaker 1: The difference there was the government paid the Japanese families.
Speaker 1: The US government paid the families of Japanese American citizens
Speaker 1: who were wrongfully imprisoned because of ignorance or fear. Go ahead, Reverend.
Speaker 2: So they apologized, and then they they sought to repair
Speaker 2: the situation by paying reparations. The same aim is the
Speaker 2: case with UH. The Native American community, to which the
Speaker 2: federal government has apologized and to which allocations of money
Speaker 2: have been directed to Native Americans in the United States
Speaker 2: and in Canada. So there is president where a government
Speaker 2: or on the federal level UH has paid reparations, and
Speaker 2: these churches are simply following UH in that regard. In
Speaker 2: some ways, it really comes out of the Judea Christian
Speaker 2: Christian ethic, where there are a number of stories and
Speaker 2: number of UH biblical edicts so to speak, that speak
Speaker 2: to the act of atonement and repair as a way
Speaker 2: towards reconciliation between individuals. So they were gentlemen, there's biblical.
Speaker 1: Yeah, gentlemen, I think that each of you has take
Speaker 1: out a position.
Speaker 2: And the more time he has so far, so I'd
Speaker 2: like another minute.
Speaker 1: Then I think, actually, Richard, you've had more time. I'll
Speaker 1: give you thirty seconds. Go ahead.
Speaker 2: Okay. What happened the Japanese was horrible, but it was
Speaker 2: because it was a war, and because it was a war,
Speaker 2: that's why they were taken care of in this country.
Speaker 2: Don't earn it and you don't deserve it. That's just
Speaker 2: my opinion.
Speaker 1: Ye, thank you very much for your opinion. Richard, Thank
Speaker 1: you very much. Appreciate your call. We're going to keep
Speaker 1: rolling here. We're going to go next to where we'll
Speaker 1: go next. Let me go to Jim. Jim, I got
Speaker 1: to get you in here before the break at the
Speaker 1: quarter of the hour.
Speaker 7: Go right ahead, man, I'll be brief as usual. Hello,
Speaker 7: Kevin and uh the other callers. I've been thinking about
Speaker 7: this kind of stuff a long time and considering it,
Speaker 7: and I've come to the conclusion that Caucasians were first
Speaker 7: on planet Earth, and as such we're the rightful owners
Speaker 7: of it. So we're owed rent back rent in the
Speaker 7: form of reparations by all the other minorities.
Speaker 1: How do you know?
Speaker 7: How do you listen to George Norri?
Speaker 6: But yeah, what is that?
Speaker 7: It's in the Bible.
Speaker 1: And go ahead.
Speaker 7: So if you if you off, if you offset your
Speaker 7: seventy million against our eight hundred million years, you come
Speaker 7: up with us, all of us being know, seven hundred
Speaker 7: and twenty million each. So you just figure out how
Speaker 7: you're gonna pay that and let us know.
Speaker 1: All right, Okay, thanks, thanks, all right, quick get to
Speaker 1: that point.
Speaker 2: Okay, well scientifically and answer logically that's that's not true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, it was attempting to make that point.
Speaker 1: Ref fair enough, fair enough, Okay, take a quick break here,
Speaker 1: I got uh, I got a couple of open lines
Speaker 1: at six one, seven, two, five, four, ten thirty and
Speaker 1: six one seven, nine three one ten thirty. Again, I
Speaker 1: think the important thing to point out is this is
Speaker 1: a voluntary contribution that some predominantly Protestant white churches. There
Speaker 1: are Protestant black churches, but these are white churches in
Speaker 1: Boston that have made this commitment. Very quick question, Kevin,
Speaker 1: before I go to break, are there any Catholic parishes
Speaker 1: who have made or are formerly the archdiocese? Have they
Speaker 1: made any financial commitment of any sort of of any
Speaker 1: Jewish synagogues or temples made.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Catholic Church. They're at the table, so they've
Speaker 2: been part of these meetings and these conversations. Cardinal outgoing
Speaker 2: Cardinal O'Malley has made a wonderful expression of atonement and
Speaker 2: a commitment towards the Catholic Church being involved in repair.
Speaker 2: The Catholic Church stood silent in Boston doing three centuries,
Speaker 2: well since the three surches, but doing centuries of where
Speaker 2: blacks were oppressed on.
Speaker 1: So this is more than slavery because obviously I don't
Speaker 1: think Catholic Church was actually established here in America until
Speaker 1: the nineteenth century. I don't think Catholic Church either the
Speaker 1: Catholic Church or Catholic Church leaders were involved in slavery.
Speaker 1: That's a different, different issue and one of my Jewish
Speaker 1: centergogue or Jewish temples.
Speaker 2: No, none at the moment.
Speaker 1: Okay, I got it. Let's take a quick break. I
Speaker 1: got a bunch of calls. Want to get to everyone.
Speaker 1: We're coming right back on Nightside with Reverend Kevin Peterson
Speaker 1: talking about reparations for members of the black community here
Speaker 1: in Boston, initially from white Protestant churches, some of the
Speaker 1: oldest houses of worship in the city of Boston. Actually
Speaker 1: back on NIGHTSID after this.
Speaker 5: Now back to Dan ray Line from the Window World
Speaker 5: night Side Studios on w b Z to news radio.
Speaker 1: Back to the calls to go. Let's go to Antonio,
Speaker 1: who's calling in from Roxbury. Hy Antonio, welcome, you were
Speaker 1: on with Reverend Kevin Peterson right ahead.
Speaker 8: Hi, good evening.
Speaker 2: Thank you for only to get through.
Speaker 8: My name is ANTHONYA. Atwards. I am a descendant of
Speaker 8: American freeman who was a formally emancipated slave, and I
Speaker 8: just want to let you know that I can't we
Speaker 8: are continuously working with Kevin Peterson with his organization in
Speaker 8: the community. And I also want to say that I
Speaker 8: was a cloud descendant of American freemen to be able
Speaker 8: to participate in the actual editing and writing of the
Speaker 8: apology and then being at the ceremony on the twenty
Speaker 8: seventh with the clergy and hearing this apology. And so
Speaker 8: the reason why I want to say this is I
Speaker 8: think there's a huge misconception and a breakdown of education
Speaker 8: and our community. And it's one thing that my organization
Speaker 8: does were a heritage organization, the United Stuns and Daughters
Speaker 8: of Freemen. We are trying to preserve our heritage, just
Speaker 8: like the Irish, the Italian, African, whomever. And I think
Speaker 8: that people overlook us because they're not educated on us.
Speaker 8: And so the reason why this is important for us,
Speaker 8: especially here in Massachusetts, and I listened to the previous callers,
Speaker 8: I don't think people understand that slavery which just wasn't
Speaker 8: down south the Massachusetts doing bodies of liberty for sixteen
Speaker 8: forty one, it was the churches who sanctioned slavery for
Speaker 8: the mass General district courts and they asked for lady,
Speaker 8: so slavery was sanctioned out of thirteen colonies Massachusetts was
Speaker 8: at first and sixteen forty one. You can find that
Speaker 8: in the state House, to find it in the Massachusetts
Speaker 8: Body of Liberty.
Speaker 1: I don't because anyone who listens to this program that
Speaker 1: doesn't realize that slavery existed in Massachusetts.
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, I don't I
Speaker 8: know they say it existed. The gentleman said, Sam slavery
Speaker 8: down south.
Speaker 5: No it was.
Speaker 1: That was Richard from Quincy, and I corrected him.
Speaker 8: Right. So what I want to say is, because Massachusetts
Speaker 8: sanctioned slavery and sixteen forty one and then also created
Speaker 8: the Jim Crow Laws, we have a systematic and structural
Speaker 8: racism and a question in the state of Massachusetts.
Speaker 1: I do think, Antonio, that the Jim Crow laws laws,
Speaker 1: the reconstruction Jim Laws, were a function of the South.
Speaker 8: No, it was Massachusetts, you can look it up.
Speaker 1: I do not believe that there was any dajurre djurre.
Speaker 1: They may have been de facto segregation, okay, but the
Speaker 1: gym laws of the South, as I'm sure most people know,
Speaker 1: were blacks here, whites here. They could not eat its fregation.
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's segregation. So the point I'm trying to make
Speaker 8: is in addition to doing reparations and talking about what
Speaker 8: needs to be done, there needs to be a huge
Speaker 8: set of education on this, and so I'm really proud
Speaker 8: as of the sin of the slaves to be able
Speaker 8: to be a part of this. And I also want
Speaker 8: people to know that one second set up. Every time
Speaker 8: we talk about reparations for those who descend from slavey,
Speaker 8: all other races interject their plights, and so we're very
Speaker 8: well aware of everybody else's history because it's part in school.
Speaker 8: Our history is the only one that the race as
Speaker 8: American freemen.
Speaker 1: So I want to be honest with you. I went
Speaker 1: to school in the nineteen sixties and the fifties and sixties,
Speaker 1: went to Boston Latgh School, and we learned a lot
Speaker 1: about slavery. So anyway, Antonio, I understand the points you're
Speaker 1: making and some guest, but I've got a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of other calls. You could see that, Antonio, thank you,
Speaker 1: You'll be happy.
Speaker 2: I'll be happy to all.
Speaker 8: I didn't want to say that. I'm very proud.
Speaker 1: Atonia is if I could as professionally and as gentlemen
Speaker 1: as I can, I have three other prolems behind you,
Speaker 1: and I only have about six minutes left, so you've
Speaker 1: already had almost four minutes. If you could wrap up
Speaker 1: your comments, that would be great.
Speaker 8: I will, I will. So I just want to say
Speaker 8: I'm very proud of the organizations that are coming together
Speaker 8: to also educate and also bring up operations at this
Speaker 8: point and means a lot to us who descend some slavery.
Speaker 8: And so I just want to thank Kevin Peterson for
Speaker 8: always being available to be on your show, and I
Speaker 8: want to thank you for a lot.
Speaker 9: Want us to speak, Yeah, to say.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons we're doing this tonight is I
Speaker 1: was disappointed with the lack of coverage that this event had.
Speaker 1: This event was given on Saturday, and I mentioned that
Speaker 1: to Kevin, and Kevint called me over the weekend and
Speaker 1: I felt that it's it was very appropriate.
Speaker 6: To have them mon thank you, Okay, thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You're welcome. You're welcome. Let's keep YouTube, let's keep rolling, everybody,
Speaker 1: and Joseph, Joseph, I'm not sure where you call it from, Joseph,
Speaker 1: but you go right ahead.
Speaker 9: Oh sorry, it's Joe from Cambridge, you know, Okay, Joe, good,
Speaker 9: thank you for me.
Speaker 1: Because we're getting tight here. Okay, as we get as
Speaker 1: we always get to the end of the hour, go ahead,
Speaker 1: you bet.
Speaker 9: And good evening, Reverend Peterson, believe it. So I just
Speaker 9: real quick, I think, and this is just my opinion.
Speaker 9: When I hear reparations, I know it is a very
Speaker 9: polarizing subject. There's going to be a lot of animated
Speaker 9: discussion on both sides. I personally don't necessarily can you know,
Speaker 9: completely grasp and understand it the concept behind it. But
Speaker 9: I understand that there's opposite views that defend it, you know,
Speaker 9: and I respect those. My question is, are two questions
Speaker 9: related to the payment? So I heard earlier that you
Speaker 9: have commitments from the churches in Boston for five zero
Speaker 9: fifty billion dollars million, million, million, million, excuse me, million,
Speaker 9: and that will come from the church's coffers, I believe,
Speaker 9: probably right. But the fifteen one five million, I think
Speaker 9: it's a separate payment you mentioned or I heard it
Speaker 9: was going to come from the City of Boston, right,
Speaker 9: And who's going to pay billions? And who is going
Speaker 9: to exactly pay that? I assume it's going to be
Speaker 9: the taxpayers of Boston, the City of Boston, right.
Speaker 2: They could be the taxpayers but sir, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 2: forget your name. You know the issue of Joe Joe,
Speaker 2: the city could issue of bond built around reparations, and
Speaker 2: those who buy into or purchase into a bond, they're
Speaker 2: not being taxed. They're in fact, they're investing in order
Speaker 2: to to to reform money. But they could the fifteen billion,
Speaker 2: the initial fifteen billion, to come through that mechanism. The
Speaker 2: point of the matter is that harm was perpetrated on
Speaker 2: on slaves and blacks over three centuries. That harm needs
Speaker 2: to be repaired. So there needs to be some way.
Speaker 2: As as Native Americans were repaired through compensation, as Japanese
Speaker 2: Americans were repaired through compensation, there ought to be away
Speaker 2: just in terms of moral comportment for African Americans or
Speaker 2: blacks and sent the slaves to be made whole based
Speaker 2: on what was stolen and based on what the harm
Speaker 2: has been systematically and with regard to chattel slavery and
Speaker 2: in the colony of Massachusetts.
Speaker 9: So so I understand your your your position on it,
Speaker 9: and I respect it, but bent to the payment part
Speaker 9: and whether so if it if it is a bond payment.
Speaker 9: And I'm familiar because I work in the industry. I
Speaker 9: may with bonds and how to work, and that's that's
Speaker 9: a vol that's a voluntary payment, and I can respect that.
Speaker 9: Then that's a different story.
Speaker 6: But if it.
Speaker 9: That's something that I think that would have a problem with,
Speaker 9: because well, your tax.
Speaker 2: Your taxes inadvertently or or paid for the UH repair
Speaker 2: of Japanese Americans. You could say theoretically that you paid
Speaker 2: for that as well as well as Native Americans. Now,
Speaker 2: why can't we get wrap our hands around and heard
Speaker 2: moral terms and very political terms of compensating UH blacks
Speaker 2: for centuries of a pressure.
Speaker 1: Gentlemen, I'm going to have to leave that question hanging
Speaker 1: in the ear because we are now literally out of time.
Speaker 1: Some of the calls went very long. Joe, you did not.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to peinageze you. I think you made your
Speaker 1: point clear. The call is in the line. You can
Speaker 1: stay there and we can continue this conversation into the
Speaker 1: next hour. Reverend Peterson, again, I was disappointed the lack
Speaker 1: of coverage you received on Saturday. This won't make up
Speaker 1: for the lack of coverage, but at least it gives
Speaker 1: a little more conversation and thought to the issue.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Very well, appreciate it, look forward and
Speaker 2: coming back on again.
Speaker 1: Absolutely call anytime, Reverend Kevin Peterson, if you're on the line,
Speaker 1: we can continue to talk about reparations here in Boston
Speaker 1: or reparations in your community. I think it's an issue
Speaker 1: that it is that it needs to be discussed, and
Speaker 1: whatever your point of view is, welcome. Will be back
Speaker 1: on Night's side right after the eleven o'clock news here
Speaker 1: in Boston.