WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.000 --> 00:00:10.599 It's on Boston, all right, welcome back. We have touched 2 00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:15.839 on this topic before, but we haven't talked about reparations. Recently, 3 00:00:15.919 --> 00:00:20.039 joining me is Reverend Kevin Peterson, who has been an 4 00:00:20.079 --> 00:00:24.039 advocate for reparations for slavery and also has been an 5 00:00:24.079 --> 00:00:28.359 advocate for changing the name of Fannel Hall because it's 6 00:00:28.440 --> 00:00:32.960 named after Peter Fannel, a Bostonian from the middle of 7 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:38.280 the eighteenth century who owned slaves. Reverend Peterson, welcome back 8 00:00:38.280 --> 00:00:40.399 to Nightside. 9 00:00:40.679 --> 00:00:43.840 Thank you, Dan. I'm glad to be back on again. 10 00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:48.320 I know that you were involved in an event on 11 00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:53.399 Saturday at the Arlington Street Church and I was surprised 12 00:00:53.799 --> 00:00:58.520 how well and I was disappointed, But I don't know 13 00:00:58.560 --> 00:01:02.079 how you felt about it. Can generate. The only media 14 00:01:02.159 --> 00:01:04.719 coverage that I could see if it was some coverage 15 00:01:04.719 --> 00:01:08.519 from WBZ news radio. It looked as if the local 16 00:01:08.560 --> 00:01:11.480 TV stations in both The Globe and The Herald chose 17 00:01:11.560 --> 00:01:14.920 not to cover the event. Did I miss a coverage that? 18 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:17.359 Because I was looking today to try to do a 19 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:19.879 little research on it, I couldn't find anything other than 20 00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:21.200 the WBZ news report. 21 00:01:22.120 --> 00:01:27.280 Yeah, No, you didn't miss the coverage that scantily appeared 22 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:33.200 related to this very historic event on Friday. 23 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.319 Let me for folks who might have missed it, I'm 24 00:01:35.319 --> 00:01:38.519 going to ask Rob to play cut thirty six. This 25 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:42.120 was Kendall Mule's wrap, just to kind of set it 26 00:01:42.200 --> 00:01:45.799 up so people know what we're talking about and then 27 00:01:45.840 --> 00:01:48.319 we can get into get into the issues. Why don't 28 00:01:48.319 --> 00:01:50.200 you play cut thirty six please? Rob? 29 00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.319 There was a dark history behind many of the points 30 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:56.000 of light that are Boston's churches. 31 00:01:56.120 --> 00:02:00.599 White churches in Boston were founded really in the colonial 32 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:03.079 era on the proceeds of the slave trade. 33 00:02:03.200 --> 00:02:05.840 That's Reverend John Gibbons with other members of Boston's white 34 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.400 clergy gathered at the Arlington Street Church to sign an 35 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:12.360 atonement statement formally apologizing for their church's complicity and slavery 36 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:15.120 and its legacy. Also, it's anywhere black faith leaders who 37 00:02:15.159 --> 00:02:18.039 signed the document his witnesses, among them Reverend Kevin Peterson, 38 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:20.280 who calls this an important first step. 39 00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:24.639 The second part is reparations, restoring what is owed to 40 00:02:24.719 --> 00:02:27.919 those who were harmed. And then the third part of 41 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:31.319 this process is reconciliation to come in together of whites 42 00:02:31.360 --> 00:02:31.800 and blacks. 43 00:02:31.840 --> 00:02:34.439 Peterson says today's proceedings are the first of their kind 44 00:02:34.560 --> 00:02:38.039 in the nation's history. Kendall Bulden w Busy Boston's news. 45 00:02:38.000 --> 00:02:42.680 Radio, so that this was Saturday after I guess it 46 00:02:42.759 --> 00:02:45.039 was Saturday afternoon. It was an indoor events, so I'm 47 00:02:45.039 --> 00:02:47.319 not sure what time lest I think it was Saturday afternoon. 48 00:02:47.759 --> 00:02:52.680 And there was a letter, a pretty long statement called 49 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:56.039 the Confession of Spiritual Sin and a call to sacred atonement, 50 00:02:56.599 --> 00:03:02.039 reparations and reconciliation from predominantly white churches in metropolitan Boston. Kevin, 51 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:07.000 how many churches were represented at the ceremony on Saturday? 52 00:03:08.240 --> 00:03:12.840 It was just syh of forty churches, forty faith leaders, 53 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.960 white faith leaders from uh some of some of them 54 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.879 from the downtown churches at Boston who had a direct 55 00:03:20.879 --> 00:03:23.879 connection to the legacy of Lomny. 56 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:27.199 Denominations were were represented? Were they mostly. 57 00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:33.439 Yeah, I would say about yeah, Protestant, Protestant, No, no, no. 58 00:03:33.560 --> 00:03:39.039 Catholic representation of the The Catholic Church has talked about 59 00:03:39.960 --> 00:03:43.360 reparations and repair and addressing the evils, and. 60 00:03:43.400 --> 00:03:47.159 So most of the most of the churches would have 61 00:03:47.280 --> 00:03:51.759 dated back to I guess the the early eighteenth century. 62 00:03:51.840 --> 00:03:54.319 Is that you know, I'm trying to some of the 63 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:56.280 church content context here. 64 00:03:56.879 --> 00:03:58.560 Yes, some of some of the churches date back to 65 00:03:58.639 --> 00:04:04.840 the colonial air where slavery existed. In those churches, including 66 00:04:04.919 --> 00:04:12.479 King's Chapel and Old South Church UH, the Old North Church. UH, 67 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:16.759 they were involved in one way or another in the 68 00:04:16.800 --> 00:04:22.720 Transatlantic slave trade. Either pastors owned slaves or slaves worked 69 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:28.879 in those sacred edifices, or they profited indirectly through through 70 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:33.560 the sale of slaves. Other churches who signed on to 71 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:40.040 this document or signing on because they were confessing the 72 00:04:40.079 --> 00:04:44.600 sin of being associated with the perpetuation of systemic racism 73 00:04:44.680 --> 00:04:48.000 over the last three centuries. So while those churches don't 74 00:04:48.040 --> 00:04:49.920 date back or some of those churches don't date back 75 00:04:49.959 --> 00:04:54.600 to the colonial area of era, they expressed apology and 76 00:04:54.759 --> 00:04:58.720 remorse and renouncement because during during the three centuries of 77 00:04:59.000 --> 00:05:03.639 of anti black oppression in Boston, they in some ways 78 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:04.319 stood silent. 79 00:05:04.600 --> 00:05:09.639 Okay, So did I know? And again, I we've talked 80 00:05:09.680 --> 00:05:11.920 about this before, and I want to get to phone 81 00:05:11.959 --> 00:05:16.680 callers as well. I know that when we last talked, 82 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:20.800 I think it was a few months ago, you and 83 00:05:20.879 --> 00:05:23.040 others had come up with a figure of about fifteen 84 00:05:23.160 --> 00:05:26.920 billion dollars and that was a figure that just for 85 00:05:27.000 --> 00:05:32.680 discussion purposes you felt would be an appropriate figure for 86 00:05:33.279 --> 00:05:36.680 Is that the city of Boston or is that easterns 87 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:38.079 or New England? 88 00:05:39.120 --> 00:05:40.759 Yes, no, the city of Boston. 89 00:05:41.240 --> 00:05:45.360 Okay, okay, no problem. So did any of these churches. 90 00:05:45.519 --> 00:05:48.920 It's one thing to sign a document. Did any of 91 00:05:48.959 --> 00:05:53.560 these churches make an offer of a penance? Since we 92 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.839 put it in a spiritual sense and say, hey, well, 93 00:05:57.920 --> 00:06:00.560 reparations women, I'm using I'm using it kind of in 94 00:06:00.600 --> 00:06:05.120 the context of penance for the sins of their predecessors. 95 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:08.519 And none of the ministers who signed this, I'm sure 96 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:12.279 ever had anything to do directly with the slave trade, 97 00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:18.800 but they now represent those churches. Again, did any of 98 00:06:18.839 --> 00:06:22.600 them say, hey, we pledge or on behalf of our congregation, 99 00:06:23.120 --> 00:06:26.680 we pledge x numbers of dollars to the establishment of 100 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:29.800 a fund or was it all just? And again I 101 00:06:29.800 --> 00:06:32.680 want to say simply, but was it all just the 102 00:06:32.759 --> 00:06:36.920 signing of a document lamenting what had happened without offering 103 00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:41.759 any again, actual financial support. 104 00:06:43.759 --> 00:06:50.120 The answer is simply put, Yes, there was a very 105 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:54.519 great need and there's very it's ceiling. It's important for 106 00:06:54.759 --> 00:07:01.480 the churches to make us their first move penance acknowledgement, apology, 107 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:06.279 atonement as part of the process of repair. That's reparations, 108 00:07:06.279 --> 00:07:08.560 that's the penance you talk about, and then we move 109 00:07:08.600 --> 00:07:13.079 on to reconciliation. So the dependance or the repair that's 110 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.800 been committed is up to fifty million dollars of a 111 00:07:15.839 --> 00:07:19.680 commitment to from the collective of churches, most of which 112 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:24.720 are connected to the slave trade translated strange thing. So 113 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:28.399 it's fifty million dollars that over the next two years 114 00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:35.279 is forthcoming in terms of payments into Boston's black community. 115 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:37.600 Okay, So you broke up with me, So it's the 116 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:44.879 commitment is fifty five million dollars over the next two years. 117 00:07:45.480 --> 00:07:48.720 Now, in the coming years, a commitment of fifty five 118 00:07:48.879 --> 00:07:54.680 zero fifty millions will be committed to Boston's black community 119 00:07:55.079 --> 00:07:56.920 and so a number of churches, okay. 120 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.879 And so when you say coming years, there's no is 121 00:08:00.199 --> 00:08:03.360 not a time specific it's at some point. 122 00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:10.000 Well informally, the the two undred and fiftieth anniversary of 123 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:11.959 the Nation has two years from now. 124 00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:14.319 Yeah, that's where we're coming hard upon that because we 125 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:19.279 got the Boston Tea Party, uh fifty anniversary of the 126 00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:22.279 Tea Party in December of this year. So it's a 127 00:08:22.480 --> 00:08:24.079 two and a half two and a half months from now. 128 00:08:24.560 --> 00:08:29.319 So at this point, where will that money be deposited 129 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:33.919 and how will it be distributed, assuming that it actually materializes. 130 00:08:34.039 --> 00:08:36.120 And Uh, well, we're we're. 131 00:08:36.559 --> 00:08:39.120 Or if there's not a plan prepared, that's fine. I'm 132 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:41.320 not trying to put you on the spot. I'm just curious. 133 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:47.240 Yes, we're confident that it will materialize. Uh, these churches 134 00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:52.159 of the Episcopal Church, the Old South Church, others have 135 00:08:52.159 --> 00:08:58.399 have stated in meetings that they're prepared to make this commitment. Uh, 136 00:08:58.679 --> 00:09:03.960 A mechanism a has not been clearly articulated in terms 137 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:07.679 of how it gets into the black community. Usage of 138 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:12.759 these funds have not been clearly articulated. But we were 139 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:19.399 anticipating a, you know, a historic investment in the black community. 140 00:09:20.159 --> 00:09:23.720 Who would be able could we make a little news 141 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:27.960 here and could you share with us maybe the the 142 00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:30.039 the amount of the commitment of let us say, the 143 00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:34.960 top three churches or the top three you know religions, 144 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:37.759 what has been committed specifically. 145 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:43.480 No, I'm not prepared to do that at this point, 146 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:46.600 but I am prepared to say I'm prepared to say 147 00:09:46.639 --> 00:09:50.320 with confidence that up to fifty million dollars will be 148 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:58.200 invested from across the denominations, the Episcopal Church and in 149 00:09:58.399 --> 00:10:01.720 other Protestant churches that that date back. Kay, I will 150 00:10:01.720 --> 00:10:04.080 say I would say, I will say that King's Chapel 151 00:10:04.159 --> 00:10:08.279 is involved, in Old South Church and in Trinity Church. 152 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:13.799 They're all involved in contributing to this initial pool of 153 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.799 fifty million dollars, which will go to things like economic 154 00:10:17.879 --> 00:10:21.440 development and housing and maybe some cash payouts into the 155 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:24.279 black community. 156 00:10:24.960 --> 00:10:27.399 But I just, I just you know, want to make 157 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:31.120 very make clear my question. So, yes, you cannot tell 158 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:36.080 us that a specific either individual church such as. 159 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.480 Well, I won't put a number to it, but I 160 00:10:39.480 --> 00:10:41.120 won't put a number to it. But I will say 161 00:10:41.159 --> 00:10:46.360 that Old South Church, UH, Trinity and King's Chapel are 162 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:52.159 churches that have that have committed to monetary offerings in 163 00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:52.720 wake of. 164 00:10:53.080 --> 00:10:57.000 Their specifically In other words, it's one thing to say, yeah, 165 00:10:57.000 --> 00:10:58.799 we're going to try to do something. It's one thing 166 00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:04.360 to say we're going to make a contribution for reparations. 167 00:11:03.840 --> 00:11:06.240 Of this is what the church, This is what these 168 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:09.000 churches are doing. Yeah, I don't want to pin a 169 00:11:09.039 --> 00:11:11.120 specific number on one particular church. 170 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:13.360 No, No, I understand, I'm I'm just changing the question 171 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:17.159 a little bit because it's to me, it's fascinating. If 172 00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:20.840 it's one thing for churches to sign a document or 173 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:24.240 ministers to sign a document and bemoan the terrible things 174 00:11:24.279 --> 00:11:27.480 that happened, it's quite another then for someone to say 175 00:11:27.559 --> 00:11:30.919 we should raise, you know, as a start, fifty million 176 00:11:30.960 --> 00:11:34.360 dollars towards the figure of five billion dollars. But I 177 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:36.759 just want to make sure I understand that, and if 178 00:11:37.320 --> 00:11:40.240 you're not prepared to answer a specific I get that, 179 00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:43.879 and I accept that. But a the churches Protestant churches 180 00:11:43.919 --> 00:11:48.440 in Boston that have said we commit X to get 181 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:52.559 to fifty million dollars, there's got to be some substantial commitments. 182 00:11:51.759 --> 00:11:57.240 Are the names of churches and amounts on a piece 183 00:11:57.240 --> 00:11:59.679 of paper that you don't want to disclose to us, 184 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:02.519 which I understand. But you know that this church has 185 00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:06.799 pledged X. This church has pledged yuh, and this church 186 00:12:06.840 --> 00:12:08.320 has pledged has pledged Z. 187 00:12:09.799 --> 00:12:11.200 That' said exactly, yes. 188 00:12:11.399 --> 00:12:15.360 Okay, So so you have a good idea that this 189 00:12:15.440 --> 00:12:19.360 fifty million can be met. Okay, great, let's let's take 190 00:12:19.399 --> 00:12:21.519 some phone calls. We got to take a break. My 191 00:12:21.559 --> 00:12:27.559 guest is Reverend Kevin Peterson. He believes that a figure 192 00:12:27.639 --> 00:12:32.120 of fifteen billion dollars is. 193 00:12:32.080 --> 00:12:33.639 Well, let me correct, Let me correct that there are 194 00:12:33.679 --> 00:12:38.960 two pools of money. Fifteen billion dollars is what black 195 00:12:39.000 --> 00:12:41.840 residents have demanded from the city of Boston and wake 196 00:12:41.919 --> 00:12:45.720 of their apology around the Tansilantis play trade. Another pool 197 00:12:45.759 --> 00:12:50.120 of money, it's fifty million dollars to which churches have committed. 198 00:12:50.159 --> 00:12:54.159 And oh, yeah, no, I understand that. I'm sorry, I 199 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:55.879 do know. I mean, I think we're very clear in 200 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:58.399 the fifty million committed from the churches. Although I can't 201 00:12:58.399 --> 00:13:01.480 get a specifics I I do have that specific number 202 00:13:01.519 --> 00:13:04.720 from you, which I appreciate. And the fifteen billion dollars 203 00:13:05.320 --> 00:13:08.399 you have a commit a group, I believe, And if 204 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.639 you'd like to identify the group, I think of people 205 00:13:10.639 --> 00:13:13.600 who have worked on this figure, and you're involved with 206 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:17.799 the group who has basically identified the number of fifteen 207 00:13:17.879 --> 00:13:21.720 billion as what would be necessary? What is the group 208 00:13:21.759 --> 00:13:22.919 that has that has come. 209 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:27.080 On the founder of the Boston People's Reparations Commission Gotcha, 210 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:31.039 which is a grassroots organization which adds over the last 211 00:13:31.159 --> 00:13:36.919 year organize the black community around reparations. And we've surfaced 212 00:13:36.960 --> 00:13:40.879 this number of an initial fifteen billion dollar commitment. 213 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:46.039 Initial, absolutely, I think that's important to emphasize, Reverend initial. 214 00:13:46.840 --> 00:13:50.240 Not certainly the final number would be higher than that. 215 00:13:51.480 --> 00:13:55.840 And and just for clarification, and I think we've discussed 216 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:57.679 this before. If I'm wrong, please correct me, and then 217 00:13:57.679 --> 00:14:00.559 well then we'll take a very quick break. This is 218 00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:05.320 not something that an individual has to who lives in 219 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:09.200 Boston does not have to prove that they are a 220 00:14:09.279 --> 00:14:15.399 direct descendant of someone who was enslaved. This fifteen billion 221 00:14:15.440 --> 00:14:19.879 dollars could go to benefit any member of the black 222 00:14:19.919 --> 00:14:22.480 community in Boston. Is I understand that or am I 223 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:24.960 wrong on that? 224 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:30.799 That's correct as we have it, have the calculus organized 225 00:14:30.840 --> 00:14:35.720 at this point. Yes, it would benefit black Bostonians across 226 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:38.480 the board, right, and Will's gift at some point, will 227 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:41.440 that shift at some point as we come closer to 228 00:14:42.120 --> 00:14:45.559 our an agreement with the City of Boston, it could 229 00:14:45.639 --> 00:14:52.519 shift from being a cash payout disbursement only to the 230 00:14:52.559 --> 00:14:58.440 descendants of slaves. So we're not fixated on the exact 231 00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:02.879 calcualists in terms of the payout. We also have other categories, 232 00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:07.480 such as five billion of fifteen billion being invested in 233 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:14.159 the reconstruction of the black economic community. 234 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:16.840 Let me do this. I got to take a break. 235 00:15:16.879 --> 00:15:19.639 I shouldn't have opened up that, but we'll have plenty 236 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:20.919 of time to talk about that. I got to take 237 00:15:20.919 --> 00:15:23.039 a quick commercial break a little bit past where my 238 00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:25.240 break should be. I find this to be a very 239 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.720 interesting subject, and again I thank you for joining us. 240 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.159 I think it's very important. This was not covered by 241 00:15:32.279 --> 00:15:35.039 the newspapers, it wasn't covered by the television stations. I 242 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:39.000 think it was important for your efforts to be recognized. 243 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.399 And whether people agree or disagree, they're more than welcome 244 00:15:41.399 --> 00:15:44.519 to join the conversation. All I ask is polite conversation. 245 00:15:44.600 --> 00:15:46.919 Back on Nightside. The only lines that are open right 246 00:15:46.919 --> 00:15:49.480 now are six, one, seven, nine, thirty. Will be right 247 00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:51.320 back on Nightside. 248 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:54.279 Now back to Dan Way live from the Window World, 249 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.159 Nice Side Studios on WBZ News Radio. 250 00:15:59.240 --> 00:16:01.320 Reverend n this is my guest. We're going to get 251 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.480 to phone calls. Let me start it off with I'm 252 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:07.600 going to go to Scott in Quincy. Scott, welcome you 253 00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.440 at first this hour, get you in here before the 254 00:16:09.480 --> 00:16:11.360 news at the bottom of the hour with Reverend Kevin 255 00:16:11.399 --> 00:16:15.480 Peterson talking about reparations for the for the black community 256 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:15.960 in Boston. 257 00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:21.559 Go ahead, well, great show, Dan, and interesting topic. And 258 00:16:22.279 --> 00:16:27.679 what I'm curious about on this whole topic is, for example, 259 00:16:28.240 --> 00:16:31.399 my ancestors at the same time as the slave trade 260 00:16:31.480 --> 00:16:35.480 was going on in Scotland, We're victims of a genocide 261 00:16:35.519 --> 00:16:40.360 called the Highland Clearances and fled to Nova Scotia and Canada. 262 00:16:42.759 --> 00:16:47.879 So it wouldn't be fair to levy part of my 263 00:16:48.080 --> 00:16:53.240 taxes for reparations given what my ancestors were experiencing at 264 00:16:53.240 --> 00:16:58.320 the same time. And then when you talk about reparations, 265 00:16:59.639 --> 00:17:02.840 you know the descendants of people who were harmed by slavery. 266 00:17:03.320 --> 00:17:09.480 There are other African populations who were the slavers who 267 00:17:09.519 --> 00:17:13.799 were capturing their fellow countrymen and selling them to the 268 00:17:13.880 --> 00:17:18.400 Dutch and the Portuguese. And then you also had the Moors, 269 00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:23.559 who were Muslim African Americans from North Africa who were 270 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.920 the most prolific of slavers. How do we ensure that 271 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:33.839 reparations money aren't going to the descendants of the people 272 00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.839 who did the slaving. And in a lot of ways, 273 00:17:37.960 --> 00:17:42.440 modern African immigrants who came here may well be the 274 00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:47.839 descendants of the people who did the slave trading in Africa. 275 00:17:48.599 --> 00:17:52.400 So there are two types of African Americans, those who 276 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:56.519 were harmed by slavery and those who were enslavers. How 277 00:17:56.559 --> 00:18:01.000 do you ensure the right people don't get the benefits 278 00:18:01.079 --> 00:18:04.759 of reparations? Reverend Dan, what. 279 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:09.559 Do you think? Thank you, thanks for the question. You 280 00:18:09.920 --> 00:18:15.559 can ensure with any specificity uh Uh at this day 281 00:18:15.599 --> 00:18:20.079 and age, whether or not the descendants of the enslavers 282 00:18:20.119 --> 00:18:24.160 will will benefit from from reparations. What we are speaking 283 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:29.640 to is a generalized totalizing condition of of African Americans 284 00:18:29.680 --> 00:18:33.839 with regard to slavery, and we know it existed in 285 00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:37.160 the in this in this nation, wages were stolen, culture 286 00:18:37.279 --> 00:18:40.880 was stolen across the board. That was harm done to 287 00:18:41.119 --> 00:18:44.559 a total group of people, and totalizing people, a group 288 00:18:44.599 --> 00:18:49.440 of people to which there should be apology, uh, and 289 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:53.319 to which there should be uh repair. That leads more 290 00:18:53.319 --> 00:18:56.200 importantly to the call and more importantly, this is the point. 291 00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.319 It leads to racial reconciliation of Boston and some ways 292 00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:05.599 is a great city, Uh, it is in other ways 293 00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:09.599 a victim of the history of anti blackness, which needs 294 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.680 to be addressed so that we get to the point 295 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:17.160 where blacks and whites in this great city are are 296 00:19:17.319 --> 00:19:20.799 reconciled and working together so that our children, our children's 297 00:19:20.839 --> 00:19:24.720 children enjoy a better metropolis. 298 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.200 Go ahead, Scott, well. 299 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.920 I get that. I get that, but you know, like 300 00:19:31.039 --> 00:19:34.160 I said, you know, the Spanish where something. 301 00:19:34.960 --> 00:19:37.240 Scott, I think I think you made that point. I think, 302 00:19:37.319 --> 00:19:40.599 and I think the Reverend I address that, and I 303 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:42.240 don't think that probably is going to be. 304 00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:49.720 A gent but like I said, that's just my point. 305 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:54.440 There there are people who deserve reparations and people who 306 00:19:54.680 --> 00:19:58.319 who don't. And uh, that's well. 307 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:01.759 Amongst the black community, there's there's no way to make 308 00:20:01.799 --> 00:20:05.000 that distinction. And uh, I don't know how you would 309 00:20:05.039 --> 00:20:09.240 make the distinction, you know, within the within the black community, 310 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.880 and so I don't know if there's any way you 311 00:20:11.880 --> 00:20:14.759 could suggest that, but it would be very difficult to that's 312 00:20:14.799 --> 00:20:15.400 that's for sure. 313 00:20:17.920 --> 00:20:20.720 Well, one would people who are black and Muslim be 314 00:20:20.839 --> 00:20:25.440 considered Moore's who were who were the descendants of slavers? 315 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:30.000 You know, again, I think that he answered that question, Scott, 316 00:20:30.039 --> 00:20:32.480 to be honest with you, I just think that that 317 00:20:32.559 --> 00:20:36.000 he has put it out there in uh in in 318 00:20:36.599 --> 00:20:39.559 a direct fashion, and you don't have to agree with it. 319 00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:41.599 And I think you've made some great points that other 320 00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:43.559 people can think about. So thank you for the call. 321 00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:44.359 It is very helpful. 322 00:20:45.200 --> 00:20:48.519 Yes, excellent, Dan, great show, great show, Thank you. 323 00:20:48.559 --> 00:20:49.799 All right, I have a great night. We've got to 324 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:51.480 take our news at the bottom of the hour. My 325 00:20:51.599 --> 00:20:53.720 name is Dan Ray. This is nice side. My guest 326 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:58.400 is the Reverend Kevin Peterson, who is very much in 327 00:20:58.440 --> 00:21:02.119 the leadership of the reparation community here in Boston. And 328 00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:04.240 you've listened to him. If you'd like to ask a 329 00:21:04.319 --> 00:21:07.920 question or make a comment, you're welcome again. I just 330 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.480 ask everyone to be polite. Six one, seven, two, five, four, 331 00:21:10.559 --> 00:21:14.039 ten thirty six one seven, nine, ten thirty back after 332 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:16.240 this on night Side. 333 00:21:16.359 --> 00:21:21.519 Night Side with Dan Ray on WBZ, Boston's news radio. 334 00:21:22.039 --> 00:21:25.400 All right, my guests, we're talking about reparations for Boston's 335 00:21:25.400 --> 00:21:29.119 black community. Joining me tonight is Reverend Kevin Peterson. He 336 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:33.599 certainly has been the leader on this issue. On Saturday, 337 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:38.039 there was a meeting between people in Boston at the 338 00:21:38.920 --> 00:21:44.359 Park Street Church where several members of the clergy of 339 00:21:44.480 --> 00:21:51.119 the white Protestant community basically signed a document committing their 340 00:21:52.039 --> 00:21:57.599 efforts to raise funds for reparations. And according to Reverend Peterson, 341 00:21:57.680 --> 00:22:01.039 he has a commitment of fifteen million dollars from some 342 00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:05.359 of the can we call the mainline Protestant churches White 343 00:22:05.400 --> 00:22:08.000 Protestant churches here in Boston. Let's keep rolling here and 344 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.720 we're going to go next to Richard, who joins us 345 00:22:11.720 --> 00:22:13.759 from Newton. Richard, you're next on Nightsiger, right ahead. 346 00:22:14.759 --> 00:22:17.440 Thanks you a very interesting subject. 347 00:22:19.039 --> 00:22:20.799 They had Reverend Peterson. 348 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:28.559 Good evening reverend on phone. And I think your concept 349 00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:35.519 is very different and unique. Unfortunately, I totally disagree with it, 350 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:39.559 because you know, my grandfather came here about eighteen ninety 351 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:43.519 and worked in Walpole for slave wages in the factory 352 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:49.279 for thirty five years, and the Chinese built railroads and 353 00:22:49.319 --> 00:22:53.039 they were paid nothing. And I think all the people 354 00:22:53.079 --> 00:22:57.000 have died in Vietnam, every one of those soldiers should 355 00:22:57.039 --> 00:23:00.920 get at least one hundred thousand dollars. But the problem 356 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:07.160 is life is what it is and whatever happened, that's 357 00:23:07.279 --> 00:23:10.160 gout of history. And I think what happened in the 358 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:15.359 South was very bad, and it was it was very cruel, 359 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.200 but like anything that was history, I want to be 360 00:23:20.279 --> 00:23:22.400 paid for when people took advantage of me when I 361 00:23:22.440 --> 00:23:25.319 was a kid and I shoveled driveways for a dollar, 362 00:23:25.400 --> 00:23:27.039 there should have been ten dollars. 363 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.480 By the way, just a clarification. Okay, he's not talking 364 00:23:32.480 --> 00:23:34.440 about what happened in the South. He's talking about what 365 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:37.240 happened in Boston. I think that's important to have that focus. 366 00:23:37.319 --> 00:23:41.720 Okay, okay, okay. I think and what happened in Boston 367 00:23:41.880 --> 00:23:48.319 was there there was a certain specific harm perpetrated and 368 00:23:48.359 --> 00:23:54.319 perpetuated by some colonial churches. And they've admitted to the 369 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:59.519 sin of holding slaves, the sin of segregating their congregations, 370 00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:05.559 sin of forcing black slave enslaved artisans to to to 371 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.359 create artifacts for church services. 372 00:24:08.799 --> 00:24:09.000 Uh. 373 00:24:09.359 --> 00:24:12.119 They've committed those things, and they've come to the table 374 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:15.319 to say that they're wrong, and they have come to 375 00:24:15.359 --> 00:24:18.960 say that they're going to make penance, that they're going 376 00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:22.119 to repair or seek to repair some of the harm 377 00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:25.319 harm that they're responsible for. I think that's a that's 378 00:24:25.359 --> 00:24:29.759 admirable and I think it's within the Judeo Christian UH ethic. 379 00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:30.680 Uh. 380 00:24:30.799 --> 00:24:34.559 It follows what we read in the Bible about atonement 381 00:24:35.279 --> 00:24:41.319 and making relationships right again or or approximatey H fairness 382 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:44.240 and justice too. I think that's at But I don't 383 00:24:44.279 --> 00:24:47.519 think when Jesus died. He said, you know, you guys 384 00:24:47.519 --> 00:24:50.960 owe me fifty minion from Rome, because you know, if 385 00:24:51.000 --> 00:24:54.680 you guys to me, I mean, life is what it is. 386 00:24:54.720 --> 00:24:57.440 And I think what happened was very tough. And I 387 00:24:57.480 --> 00:24:59.839 think if they want to donate some money, that's fine, 388 00:25:00.480 --> 00:25:01.680 but I think, well. 389 00:25:01.559 --> 00:25:04.119 No, that that is what that's that's what he's taking you. Richard, 390 00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:07.599 we're talking tonight about fifty million dollars in which these 391 00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:12.319 churches in Boston would donate. There's there's a larger figure 392 00:25:12.359 --> 00:25:14.799 that will eventually get to at some point, probably in 393 00:25:14.839 --> 00:25:18.440 a separate conversation, about fifteen billion dollars, which is a 394 00:25:18.599 --> 00:25:23.039 multi which you know, you know, what's your word, it's 395 00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:27.720 it's a multiple of fifty million. I think the first step. 396 00:25:27.640 --> 00:25:31.279 Well, why not on the Irish and Italians and Japanese 397 00:25:31.559 --> 00:25:35.920 and Chinese deserve, because of their horrible conditions, that they. 398 00:25:35.880 --> 00:25:37.599 Can I think, I think the golf here. 399 00:25:37.640 --> 00:25:39.160 I don't think they don't get it. 400 00:25:39.640 --> 00:25:42.160 Richard. I'm glad you called. I'm glad you made those points, 401 00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:45.559