WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.960 Oh geez, folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say, good mind to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:12.160 go out to a theater. 4 00:00:12.439 --> 00:00:16.199 They want closed sodas, hot popcorn in. No monsters in 5 00:00:16.239 --> 00:00:17.320 the Projection. 6 00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:40.560 Booth, Everyone for tend podcasting isn't boring. Got it off? Hey, folks, 7 00:00:40.600 --> 00:00:42.679 welcome to a special episode of The Projection Booth. I'm 8 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:45.159 your host Mike White. On this episode, it is the 9 00:00:45.200 --> 00:00:48.439 return of Mark Edlet's. As I said during our interview, 10 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:51.479 the last time we spoke was right around the beginning 11 00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:55.920 of the pandemic. I was on vacation right before that 12 00:00:56.039 --> 00:00:58.719 started and reading one of his James Bond books. You 13 00:00:58.719 --> 00:01:01.240 can hear that in the feed, and you can also 14 00:01:01.359 --> 00:01:03.520 hear us talk about one of his later books right 15 00:01:03.600 --> 00:01:07.120 now as we discuss movies go forth. It is a 16 00:01:07.280 --> 00:01:11.519 fascinating concept where he's gone through a lot of series 17 00:01:11.599 --> 00:01:14.280 and looked at fourth films as well as fourth films 18 00:01:14.280 --> 00:01:17.439 that never happened and some fourth films that happened in 19 00:01:17.599 --> 00:01:21.120 very odd circumstances. Had a great time talking with Mark, 20 00:01:21.239 --> 00:01:23.439 looking forward to having him back on the show. I 21 00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:26.560 hope you enjoyed this interview Mark Edletz. It is so 22 00:01:26.719 --> 00:01:29.439 great talking with you again, because the last time we spoke, 23 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:32.439 I think it was before the pandemic, So it has 24 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:33.480 been a little while, sir. 25 00:01:33.519 --> 00:01:35.799 Oh my gosh, it's been that long. Because I listened 26 00:01:35.799 --> 00:01:38.640 to you all the time, I didn't necessarily notice the 27 00:01:38.640 --> 00:01:43.280 absence because I'm with you weekly. But I'm glad to 28 00:01:43.319 --> 00:01:44.400 be back in a different way. 29 00:01:45.159 --> 00:01:48.519 Tell me about Movies go Forth. First off, we should 30 00:01:48.519 --> 00:01:50.439 probably talk a little bit about the concept for it, 31 00:01:50.480 --> 00:01:52.879 but I really want to know how you got the concept, 32 00:01:53.159 --> 00:01:56.359 what burst of inspiration hits you to say I'm going 33 00:01:56.439 --> 00:01:57.400 to make this book. 34 00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:02.120 The book is called Movies Go Forth. Fourth films in 35 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:07.159 fantastic franchises, and I look at the fourth film in 36 00:02:07.599 --> 00:02:11.719 popular movie series, to the fourth James Bond, the fourth 37 00:02:11.800 --> 00:02:17.439 Star Wars, the fourth Batman, Superman, Jaws, Halloween, on and on. 38 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:19.879 I went for all the big franchises that I could 39 00:02:19.919 --> 00:02:22.560 think of that I could get a primary interview with 40 00:02:22.680 --> 00:02:27.319 a filmmaker, with a director or writer, casiquin actor, But 41 00:02:27.439 --> 00:02:31.879 mostly my interest is in directors and writers. And I 42 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:35.319 grant you it's a weird concept for a book. Nobody 43 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.159 was asking for a book on fourth films. My family 44 00:02:39.599 --> 00:02:42.800 challenged my sanity in doing this, but it seemed like 45 00:02:42.840 --> 00:02:46.479 a good idea at the time. And I'll try to 46 00:02:46.520 --> 00:02:49.240 be honest with you or honest with myself about how 47 00:02:49.280 --> 00:02:53.199 the idea came about, but I'm not one hundred percent sure. 48 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:56.800 But what I think happened is that I'm obsessed to 49 00:02:56.879 --> 00:03:02.199 fourth films. They are Superman four, Quest for Piece, Batman four, Batman, 50 00:03:02.280 --> 00:03:07.599 and Robin Joel Schumacher's film Enjoys the Revenge or Joys for. 51 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.680 Depending on and you slice it. 52 00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:14.159 When you look at lists of the worst films of 53 00:03:14.199 --> 00:03:20.039 all time, those three films are always on it. Superman, Batman, Jaws. 54 00:03:20.280 --> 00:03:23.199 And I am so fascinated by these films that I 55 00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:26.560 think I backed up into the premise of the book 56 00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:31.879 by noticing that observation each kind of franchise is a 57 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:35.039 case study where I'd pick a horror film, or action 58 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.840 film or a comedy film. But then once I interviewed 59 00:03:38.840 --> 00:03:42.719 someone from Halloween four, then I thought Jason for Then 60 00:03:42.759 --> 00:03:49.039 I thought Freddy four, so then Psycho four. So I 61 00:03:49.080 --> 00:03:51.960 didn't keep that kernel of each film is a case 62 00:03:51.960 --> 00:03:55.240 site for a specific genre. Just because I was curious 63 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:58.360 about these other films. I think that's what got me 64 00:03:58.400 --> 00:03:58.879 into it. 65 00:03:59.599 --> 00:04:02.960 If my listeners are like me, their minds are reeling 66 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.120 right now, because that's when I first got your book. 67 00:04:06.159 --> 00:04:08.719 I was like flipping through the intro and I'm just like, 68 00:04:09.599 --> 00:04:13.159 oh my god, the fourth film. And I just had 69 00:04:13.159 --> 00:04:16.439 this huge flood of all of these fourth films that 70 00:04:16.839 --> 00:04:19.279 have been around for many years or some are still 71 00:04:19.439 --> 00:04:22.000 just popping up. It feels like only yesterday we had 72 00:04:22.079 --> 00:04:25.839 Scream four, but now we're up to what seven saw 73 00:04:26.079 --> 00:04:29.879 four was probably a decade ago. There are franchises out 74 00:04:29.920 --> 00:04:32.920 there that are still just pumping them out, and some 75 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:35.560 of them have been it's a tough road to get 76 00:04:35.600 --> 00:04:38.360 to that fourth film, and not a lot of them 77 00:04:38.519 --> 00:04:41.279 actually happened. I think you talk about some that weren't 78 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:43.759 even made but were in the works, like a Spider 79 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:44.959 Man for from Sam Raimi. 80 00:04:45.279 --> 00:04:49.600 Yet that's a bonus chapter, and I'm so proud of 81 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:53.959 that chapter because I was a big Sam Raimi Spider 82 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:56.319 Man fan. I thought he did a great job, and 83 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.720 he didn't seem to love his own work on Spider 84 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:04.680 Man three from He felt forced into it, he said, 85 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.480 and he wanted to end the series on his own terms. 86 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.279 And there's been a lot of rumors about what the 87 00:05:11.319 --> 00:05:13.439 plot would have been, who the actors would have been 88 00:05:13.680 --> 00:05:17.279 with the villains would have been, and it was never 89 00:05:17.399 --> 00:05:22.439 one hundred percent set in stone. But through the interview 90 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:25.279 that I conducted, we know a lot about the casting 91 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:28.639 and the plot and the arc of the character. And 92 00:05:28.839 --> 00:05:32.279 what I thought was interesting about Spider Man four is 93 00:05:32.360 --> 00:05:35.639 that Sam Raimi wanted to create an ending. He said, 94 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.800 I know you're going to reboot this. I don't pretend 95 00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:39.399 that this is the end of Spider Man, nor do 96 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:40.759 I want it to be the end of Spider Man. 97 00:05:41.000 --> 00:05:43.399 But wouldn't it be cool cool if I did my 98 00:05:43.800 --> 00:05:46.480 version of the end of a Spider Man series and 99 00:05:46.720 --> 00:05:50.279 put out on a high note. And they were far 100 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:54.040 along in the process before everything got pulled and went 101 00:05:54.079 --> 00:05:56.920 back to Andrew Garfield. And the thing about all these 102 00:05:56.959 --> 00:06:00.720 series is a trilogy used to be the sign of 103 00:06:00.759 --> 00:06:03.800 success when I was growing up. You think of the 104 00:06:03.839 --> 00:06:06.519 Indiana Joe and trilogy, you think of the Star Wars trilogy, 105 00:06:06.800 --> 00:06:10.079 and a trilogy is, of course a perfect storytelling structure 106 00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:13.800 or format. Beginning, middle and end. You introduce the character 107 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.720 as they get into problems, they resolve the problems. Act one, 108 00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:21.959 two and three, the exploration of the book is what 109 00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:25.399 do you do when the story is over and either 110 00:06:25.439 --> 00:06:30.040 the filmmakers or the studio want to continue with the series. 111 00:06:30.879 --> 00:06:33.600 How does that impact the series? How does that impact 112 00:06:33.639 --> 00:06:37.439 the characters? How does that impact your fans love for 113 00:06:37.519 --> 00:06:42.279 these characters? What is too much? What is not enough? Halloween? 114 00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:45.879 Write the thirteenth, We go on and on. The Psycho 115 00:06:46.839 --> 00:06:49.600 ended the series with four as it was meant to. 116 00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:52.560 Jaws was not meant to end the series on four, 117 00:06:52.680 --> 00:06:56.920 but it was so reviled that they had to stop. 118 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:02.920 And I believe that Spielberg's experience on Jaws, seeing his 119 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:08.800 classic brilliant film get the synder each series was a 120 00:07:08.800 --> 00:07:11.920 little bit worse. I think that is why he was 121 00:07:11.959 --> 00:07:14.800 so involved with the Jurassic Park films, and then the 122 00:07:14.839 --> 00:07:17.879 fourth Jurassic Park film was the most successful of all time. 123 00:07:18.279 --> 00:07:21.600 But the thing about Jaws which is fascinating is because 124 00:07:22.480 --> 00:07:25.319 I spoke to an actor on that Lance Guest who 125 00:07:25.360 --> 00:07:28.199 was in the Last Star Feet Fighter, and he said, 126 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:33.120 as the director that they sincerely believed that they were 127 00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:39.399 making the best version of the premise of a shark 128 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:43.759 getting revenge on another shark for another family, Which doesn't 129 00:07:43.759 --> 00:07:46.160 make sense because this shark is not getting revenge. The 130 00:07:46.240 --> 00:07:49.759 other shark was dead. But they bought the premise. They 131 00:07:49.800 --> 00:07:54.519 thought they were making a thoughtful film. And I don't 132 00:07:54.519 --> 00:07:57.480 write about films that I don't have an affection for, 133 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.480 and I don't take potshots at any of these. I 134 00:08:00.480 --> 00:08:02.800 write about them all with love, and when I speak 135 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:05.959 to the filmmakers, I'm doing it with you know, my 136 00:08:06.120 --> 00:08:09.759 love for their movies in the way that I love them. 137 00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:13.000 But however, I do know that Jaws for is objectively 138 00:08:13.040 --> 00:08:17.079 doesn't work. But when you look at Superman four on paper, 139 00:08:17.360 --> 00:08:23.199 it's a home run. Superman three was not good, even 140 00:08:23.199 --> 00:08:24.759 when I first thought as a kid, I knew that 141 00:08:24.879 --> 00:08:27.839 wasn't good. But it's strong because of Christopher Reeve and 142 00:08:27.879 --> 00:08:31.399 anything he's in, he's quite good. Superman four was an attempt, 143 00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:34.279 a deliberate attempt to go back to the foundation of 144 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:37.360 Superman one. Superman the movie. They went to Donner and 145 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:39.960 they went to Manquets and they said can you come back? 146 00:08:40.000 --> 00:08:42.159 And they're like, no, we're good, thank you very much. 147 00:08:42.639 --> 00:08:45.840 But the writers and the director who took a crack 148 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:48.960 at it, Sidney J. Fury, is the director who is 149 00:08:49.000 --> 00:08:51.759 a good director. They do a serious film. They do 150 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:55.279 take the elements that we loved about Superman one and 151 00:08:55.360 --> 00:08:59.399 two and respect them and honor them. But in that case, 152 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.759 there were lots of reasons why the film fell apart, 153 00:09:02.200 --> 00:09:04.679 including at the very basic level you don't budget. 154 00:09:05.559 --> 00:09:07.759 Yeah, that is one thing I really appreciate about the 155 00:09:07.759 --> 00:09:10.519 book is that respect that you show these films, because 156 00:09:10.559 --> 00:09:13.200 you could just, oh, I'm armed Forbear, I'm going to 157 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.360 go talk about Police Academy four. But yes, there is 158 00:09:17.399 --> 00:09:22.559 a great level of respect for films that inherently I 159 00:09:22.559 --> 00:09:25.240 would say ninety percent of the time they don't get 160 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:28.440 respect because they're seen as being something watered down after 161 00:09:28.559 --> 00:09:32.559 three movies. It's very rare. I mentioned a few franchises, 162 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:34.799 and you've mentioned a few that have gone well beyond 163 00:09:34.919 --> 00:09:38.399 for I know that the last time we talked about 164 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:41.960 James Bond and that you could almost say that there 165 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:45.000 are many fours in that series just because of the 166 00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.559 different bonds that have come in, the changes in leadership, 167 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:51.279 the changes in direction. You can look at like the 168 00:09:51.399 --> 00:09:57.879 John Glenn years, is QUADRILLGIY or sorry, Quintology five films there, 169 00:09:58.000 --> 00:09:59.759 and then you can look at the fourth one of that, 170 00:10:00.000 --> 00:10:03.759 and then you probably could get very tripped up when 171 00:10:03.759 --> 00:10:07.279 it comes to Star Wars because the fourth is the first. 172 00:10:07.759 --> 00:10:10.559 That was my for Star Wars, which I love, and 173 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:12.919 I'm a Star Wars kid. I made a documentary called 174 00:10:12.960 --> 00:10:16.279 Jedi Junkies on extreme Star Wars fans. I've read so 175 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:18.600 much as you have on Star Wars and watch so 176 00:10:18.639 --> 00:10:21.960 many videos and documentaries and talked about it so much. 177 00:10:22.240 --> 00:10:25.679 I wanted to come at it in a slightly skewed 178 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:28.440 point of view, and so for Star Wars, I asked 179 00:10:28.480 --> 00:10:31.639 myself that question, what is the fourth film? For me? 180 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:37.399 Is it Phantom Menace Episode one, the fourth one in 181 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:42.679 the Skywalker trilogy? Is it for some people growing up later? 182 00:10:43.120 --> 00:10:46.720 Is it Episode four? Star Wars and New Hope? Or 183 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:50.519 And what I profered for this book, Movies Go for 184 00:10:51.159 --> 00:10:55.440 is could it be the e Wok movie that was 185 00:10:55.519 --> 00:11:00.000 released theatrically overseas? So if you were overseas, the fourth 186 00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:03.200 Star Wars film you saw in the movie theater was 187 00:11:03.240 --> 00:11:06.679 the Emock movie and for that audience, that was the 188 00:11:06.679 --> 00:11:08.879 fourth Star Wars film. So I explore that one because 189 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.919 I recognize that sort of a little bit a goofy approach, 190 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:13.840 But you know, what are you gonna do? 191 00:11:14.240 --> 00:11:18.399 Well, and I don't imagine because I would ask anybody else, oh, 192 00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:20.840 what themes did you find in these fourth films? But 193 00:11:20.919 --> 00:11:23.919 I imagine each one is a unique case. It's not like 194 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:26.440 you can just use one brush to paint this. Even 195 00:11:26.480 --> 00:11:28.840 when it comes to I imagine the horror franchises which 196 00:11:28.840 --> 00:11:31.120 are famous for going well beyond four. 197 00:11:31.440 --> 00:11:35.360 Yeah, there are similarities, but there are also huge differences. 198 00:11:35.399 --> 00:11:39.840 Like for Halloween four was an attempt to go back 199 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:44.279 to the basics after Halloween three did not feature Michael Myers. 200 00:11:45.000 --> 00:11:48.000 It had to have Michael, and it had to get 201 00:11:48.000 --> 00:11:52.519 the franchise back to a Michael Myer centered story. But 202 00:11:52.559 --> 00:11:54.399 when I asked the writer of that, what would he 203 00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:58.480 do for Halloween five if he had his brothers, he 204 00:11:58.519 --> 00:12:01.360 didn't pick a Michael Mike Michael Meyers story. He wanted 205 00:12:01.399 --> 00:12:03.639 to go in another way. He followed his own impulse 206 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:08.080 outside of that or with Psycho four, it's both a 207 00:12:08.120 --> 00:12:11.519 prequel and a sequel. So it's a sequel to Psycho 208 00:12:11.679 --> 00:12:15.480 three and in the flashback to Young Norman Bags which 209 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:18.840 they also use as the TV show, it's a prequel 210 00:12:18.919 --> 00:12:23.320 to Psycho one. Friday the Thirteenth Part four was the 211 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:29.000 final chapter Ah, that didn't happen. Leprechaun was in space. 212 00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.279 And then sometimes with these fourth movies, they're a passing 213 00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:37.519 of the Torch, like Highlander, or intended to be a 214 00:12:37.559 --> 00:12:41.120 passing of the Torch like Highlander was supposed to transfer 215 00:12:41.279 --> 00:12:44.799 the series from Christopher Lambert to the TV Guy, but 216 00:12:45.080 --> 00:12:49.000 that didn't work. Scream seemed to have to be set 217 00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.919 up to be a passing of the Torch movie, even 218 00:12:51.919 --> 00:12:54.039 though that was part of the twist of it is 219 00:12:54.039 --> 00:12:56.919 that it was your expectations of what a passing of 220 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:01.279 the Torch movie is. Yeah, there are similarities, but there's 221 00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:05.279 also huge differences. Similar tobodies are the fourth James Bond 222 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:08.159 one Thunderball was the most popular for many years, the 223 00:13:08.279 --> 00:13:13.480 fourth Dirty Harry was the most popular for years. And 224 00:13:13.519 --> 00:13:16.279 then you also see how the characters change in the 225 00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:20.480 fourth film. When you have John McClain in Diehard one, 226 00:13:21.720 --> 00:13:23.799 you think of the scene where he's stepping on glass 227 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:26.200 and he's pulling it out, and that's that's as much 228 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:28.519 as his character can take. And then you get to 229 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:31.360 Diehard four and he's jumping from like a Harry or 230 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:35.840 a jet to the ground and he's mostly okay or Ripley, 231 00:13:35.879 --> 00:13:41.960 who died in three, is completely changed in four. She 232 00:13:42.039 --> 00:13:44.679 is not herself. And then you get that where you 233 00:13:44.759 --> 00:13:50.600 have these ordinary people in extraordinary circumstances in Part one Ripley, 234 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:54.320 John McClain. And you can't keep on doing that. You 235 00:13:54.360 --> 00:13:59.120 can't keep on putting these people in. It can't always 236 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:01.440 be in the wrong place at the wrong time, Otherwise 237 00:14:01.480 --> 00:14:04.080 it become silly. So you have to change it. And 238 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:06.759 that's what happens. But how does the character change, How 239 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:08.919 does the character that we love turn into something else? 240 00:14:09.720 --> 00:14:11.600 In some of the fourth films are some of the 241 00:14:11.639 --> 00:14:14.679 best films of the series. Star Trek four and just 242 00:14:14.840 --> 00:14:17.639 how great that was. And again you're talking about breaking 243 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:20.120 box office. I wouldn't be surprised if that was a 244 00:14:20.240 --> 00:14:23.799 major box office holder of the whole series for quite 245 00:14:23.840 --> 00:14:24.200 a while. 246 00:14:24.799 --> 00:14:28.320 Yeah, so that's really interesting. With Star Trek, the fan 247 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:32.360 favorite is generally perceived as Wrath of Khan. That's the 248 00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:34.840 one that most people try to go back to, and 249 00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:37.759 you see it in this series and they have been 250 00:14:37.759 --> 00:14:40.440 able to replicate it. But the fourth Star Trek one, 251 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:45.200 where they try to deliberately go beyond the base, is 252 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:48.120 actually the most successful for many years. 253 00:14:49.039 --> 00:14:52.960 And then it goes off a cliff almost literally right 254 00:14:53.000 --> 00:14:57.039 after that. The poor reboot the jj Abrams films, they 255 00:14:57.159 --> 00:14:59.120 can never seem to get to that fourth one. So 256 00:14:59.240 --> 00:15:03.159 it is interesting that there's that distinction between the two 257 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:05.799 areas of Star Trek. And I don't know if Next 258 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:09.360 Generation managed to make it to a fourth I think 259 00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:12.279 they might have. And it depends on if you start 260 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.759 with generations versus first contacts. And I would think first 261 00:15:16.759 --> 00:15:18.720 contact because you were talking about passing out the torch. 262 00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:25.759 So here we are at theemicis insurrection generations and first 263 00:15:25.799 --> 00:15:28.399 contact like there you go, give the man a cigar. 264 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:32.320 With Star Trek. The writer told me he tried to 265 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:37.000 seed a story in for part five, a work where 266 00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:39.720 a character would have gotten pregnant and you would have 267 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:44.000 seen their child grow up, but that was written out 268 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:48.679 or cut out. Really, And when you see certain series 269 00:15:48.759 --> 00:15:52.600 like Mission Impossible, is where that series found what it 270 00:15:52.639 --> 00:15:55.840 wants to be. Now, the first three each had its 271 00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:59.480 own identity, and then after fourth you understood what you 272 00:15:59.559 --> 00:16:02.759 were going to want watch each subsequent time. And Matt 273 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.080 Mack's the fourth one that's considered the best. But so 274 00:16:06.320 --> 00:16:08.320 part of why I was interview, why I was doing 275 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.000 this research, there were all these fourth films that I 276 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:12.600 never heard of. I didn't know that there was a 277 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:17.200 Home Alone for which which was shot in South Africa 278 00:16:17.799 --> 00:16:20.600 in a ridiculously short amount of time, which is funny 279 00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:24.320 because it's a very American movie. I didn't know there 280 00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:25.840 was a Home Alone four. I didn't know there was 281 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:28.000 a meat Balls four. I didn't know there was a 282 00:16:28.039 --> 00:16:32.360 Porky's four. Now, let's briefly talk about Meatballs four and 283 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:36.879 Porky's four. Porky's four was made in even less time 284 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:42.279 than Home Alone for because it's something called an Ashcan property, 285 00:16:42.279 --> 00:16:45.039 which is to say, it is something which is created 286 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.639 just to hold on to the rights. So that was 287 00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.320 a circumstance, which we've seen that with Spider Man movies 288 00:16:52.480 --> 00:16:55.559 to a certain extent, if you don't use your option 289 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.000 to make another movie within a certain time, you lose 290 00:16:58.039 --> 00:17:02.559 the rights. And so with Porky's Four, that's what happened. 291 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.720 And the writer wrote it in a few days, and 292 00:17:04.799 --> 00:17:06.680 they shot it in a few days, and it was 293 00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.519 released as Himp and Peewee, not even Porky's four. But now, 294 00:17:10.599 --> 00:17:12.640 if you watch go On, you know to be or 295 00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:18.039 whatever it's for Meatballs four is another interesting story because 296 00:17:18.039 --> 00:17:20.200 I didn't know there was and I reached out to 297 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.079 the writer director just out of a sense of duty. Figure, 298 00:17:23.079 --> 00:17:25.599 if I'm doing all these fourth movies, I should do 299 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:29.039 Meatballs because I see it exists. But he told me 300 00:17:29.079 --> 00:17:33.799 this really sad story about jack nance from a raserhead 301 00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:36.960 and him finding out a loved one of his died 302 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:41.640 and the tragedy that snowballed after that. But he also 303 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:45.160 told me a story saying that he didn't start Meatballs 304 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.079 four as the fourth meat Balls film. He told me 305 00:17:49.119 --> 00:17:52.000 a story where he was in the middle of production 306 00:17:52.039 --> 00:17:55.400 of another film called Happy Campers, and one day the 307 00:17:55.440 --> 00:17:57.960 producer showed up and said, by the way, this is 308 00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.799 now Meatballs four. Funny as one finds out what is 309 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:04.680 working on the Bull's four when one didn't realize it 310 00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:05.400 the whole time. 311 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:09.720 I'm sure that has happened a lot where things of 312 00:18:10.480 --> 00:18:14.319 I remember Hackers Too was not Hackers Too. That was 313 00:18:14.400 --> 00:18:17.039 a whole different thing, cyber track, I think they called 314 00:18:17.039 --> 00:18:19.240 it at one point. I'm sure that when it comes 315 00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:21.039 to the fourth film, there are a lot of those 316 00:18:21.119 --> 00:18:24.359 stories where it's yeah, and now we've retitled I think 317 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:28.960 House four if you remember the William cat film. Yeah, 318 00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:32.279 I think like the fourth one is an imported Italian 319 00:18:32.319 --> 00:18:35.799 film that they've slapped the House four label onto. 320 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:38.720 And then with Rocky four. I've always been fascinated with 321 00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:41.960 Rocky four because it's the most successful one in the series, 322 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:47.759 but it's totally different from everything else. It doesn't fit in. 323 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:52.440 And then during COVID, stallone went back and re edited 324 00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:58.599 four so that it was more totally closer to the 325 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:01.000 rest of the series, and I thought this was a 326 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.759 great idea in theory. So he took out some of 327 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.079 the cheesy stuff he still kept in like the thirty 328 00:19:06.119 --> 00:19:10.799 minutes of montages. There's a lot of montages, but he 329 00:19:10.839 --> 00:19:12.880 took out some of the joker stuff, he got rid 330 00:19:12.920 --> 00:19:17.720 of the robot, and made it totally closer to the 331 00:19:17.759 --> 00:19:22.160 rest of the series. However, in doing so, he somehow 332 00:19:22.759 --> 00:19:26.039 took away all the fun of what makes Rocky such 333 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:32.680 a cheesy, over the top Americana extravaganza or whatever it is. 334 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:34.480 So I thought it was a great idea, but it 335 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:37.680 was an example of how you could take away scenes, 336 00:19:37.839 --> 00:19:43.039 but the essence of what there was denied, and it 337 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:46.799 was not as successful even though it doesn't work with 338 00:19:46.839 --> 00:19:49.559 the rest of the series. Obviously, I want people to 339 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:51.599 buy the book, but can you share some stories with 340 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:56.039 me as far as maybe some of the strangest fourth films? 341 00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:58.799 The Meatballs one has got to be one of those. Yeah, 342 00:19:58.799 --> 00:20:01.039 I'm sure there's some other. Really. Oh, let me just 343 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.279 briefly say, Joel Schumacher spoke to me about bat Batman 344 00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:04.759 and Robin. 345 00:20:04.920 --> 00:20:06.960 Good. Wasn't he nice? He was? 346 00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:11.440 Oh, my gosh, So this Joel Schumacher doesn't need to 347 00:20:11.480 --> 00:20:14.279 talk to me about Batman and Robin. There's no what 348 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:16.200 good does that do him? 349 00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:16.599 Right? 350 00:20:16.960 --> 00:20:19.160 All he's been is beating over to the calls for 351 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.000 Batman and Robin. There's no reason for him, ducmy, Yet 352 00:20:22.079 --> 00:20:26.000 we had this really sprawling conversation about Batman three and 353 00:20:26.119 --> 00:20:30.279 four and about what sort of didn't work as well 354 00:20:30.319 --> 00:20:32.920 in four that didn't three, because it's interesting it's the 355 00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:36.440 same creative team in both movies. It's it's the same director, 356 00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:43.119 it's the same writer, it's the same costumes, music, cinematographer, cinematographers, 357 00:20:43.279 --> 00:20:45.839 it's the same world. It's the same team doing the 358 00:20:45.880 --> 00:20:51.400 same thing. Yet three is generally well regarded and fourth 359 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:55.200 is not so what happens to an artist when they 360 00:20:56.319 --> 00:21:00.960 have the same goods but just fall short. And with him, 361 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:05.599 I said, each character, like on paper, they each have 362 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:09.160 their own arc, they each have their own story, they 363 00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.480 each have something to do, which seems like it would 364 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.559 be a great idea. And then he paused and he said, 365 00:21:15.079 --> 00:21:19.000 and he whispered this, maybe it was too much, And 366 00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:22.279 it was like where we were just having a discussion 367 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.119 and he had a little realization about one of the 368 00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:28.920 elements that didn't quite work in that maybe it was overstuffed. 369 00:21:28.920 --> 00:21:33.519 And also totally it was very different than three. Three 370 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:36.720 still had its foot in the Timberton camp, but by 371 00:21:36.759 --> 00:21:39.680 the time we get to four, it's a different kind 372 00:21:39.680 --> 00:21:40.039 of camp. 373 00:21:40.319 --> 00:21:44.880 Oh yeah, yeah, so yeah, I loved Joel Schumacher. Again 374 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:46.839 he didn't have to talk to me about falling down, 375 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:49.960 but right so at that time and was so generous 376 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:52.440 with this time and so nice. I just couldn't get 377 00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.119 over how sweet that guy was. Yeah, we really lost 378 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.640 somebody special with that one. Who were some of the 379 00:21:57.720 --> 00:21:59.119 other folks that you track down for. 380 00:21:59.079 --> 00:22:05.240 This spoke to a key creative figure from Superman four, 381 00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:10.000 Batman for James Bond four, Diehard for Rocky for Highlander, 382 00:22:10.039 --> 00:22:13.839 for Planet of the Apes, for Star Wars four, Star 383 00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:19.519 Trek four, Spider Man fur and the writer for what 384 00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:25.160 could have been Godfather for but wasn't. So Yeah, that's 385 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:26.680 the funny thing about when you write a book like this, 386 00:22:26.839 --> 00:22:29.440 where at least for me, you want to and you do. 387 00:22:29.519 --> 00:22:32.200 This is the same where you want a key creative 388 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:35.680 figure to explore that movie, and you make a rule 389 00:22:35.720 --> 00:22:37.759 of yourself. If you don't get that key creative figure, 390 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:40.680 you can wait some other time to explore that movie. 391 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:42.880 But I got all the big movies that I wanted. 392 00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:45.880 We were talking about how sometimes the fourth one is 393 00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:49.279 the best chapter. Now I would be hard pressed between 394 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:52.440 the original Planet of the Apes, Escape from the Planet 395 00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:56.400 of the Apes, and Conquest, but Conquest is so frickin good, 396 00:22:56.599 --> 00:22:59.359 Oh my God, and another one that was marred when 397 00:22:59.359 --> 00:23:01.200 it really came out with that ending. 398 00:23:01.799 --> 00:23:05.160 Yet they try to use the fourth originally film to 399 00:23:05.400 --> 00:23:08.240 end the series, and then it was just so popular 400 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:10.480 that they said We're going to do it another one. Anyway. 401 00:23:11.119 --> 00:23:13.359