WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:03.439 So we've enabled the opportunity to. 2 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:09.960 Build a side chain in a private environment or permission 3 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:15.919 environment that allows enterprises and institutions to really set up 4 00:00:16.519 --> 00:00:18.399 the parameters that they want to set up. So if 5 00:00:18.399 --> 00:00:21.640 they want to have or it's required that they have 6 00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:26.800 their consensus mechanism within a particular jurisdiction, they can set 7 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:30.199 it up that way. 8 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.520 This episode is brought to you by Uphold, which is 9 00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:38.320 one of the top crypto platforms in the industry. I've 10 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:41.280 been a user of Uphold since twenty eighteen. They make 11 00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.000 it easy to buy, sell, and trade crypto. They have 12 00:00:44.079 --> 00:00:48.159 three hundred plus cryptocurrencies on their platform, which includes Bitcoin 13 00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:50.759 in all the top all coins and folks. They do 14 00:00:50.880 --> 00:00:53.479 not commingle, they do not lend out your funds. They 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:56.439 are one hundred percent reserved and you can review their 16 00:00:56.439 --> 00:00:59.479 transparency report, and they have a lot of great features 17 00:00:59.479 --> 00:01:02.280 that make it easy to execute your trades. They also 18 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:05.599 have a great new product call USD Interest Accounts, which 19 00:01:05.680 --> 00:01:08.239 allows you to park your dry powder or your crypto 20 00:01:08.280 --> 00:01:12.439 profits and earn up to four point nine percent APY. Now, 21 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.439 the four point nine percent APY is only on balances 22 00:01:15.480 --> 00:01:18.760 over one thousand dollars below one thousand, it's two percent. 23 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:22.760 But what's great about this product, guys, is there's no 24 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:25.799 lock ups, there's no monthly fees, there's no subscriptions, and 25 00:01:25.920 --> 00:01:29.079 best of all, it is FDIC insured, just like a bank. 26 00:01:29.359 --> 00:01:32.040 So if you'd like to learn more about Uphold, visit 27 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:35.519 the link in the description. Welcome into the Thinking Crypto Podcast. 28 00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:38.000 I'm your host, Tony Edward, and my guest today is 29 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:42.840 Billy Siebel, who's the executive director at the XDC Foundation. Billy, 30 00:01:42.879 --> 00:01:43.640 great to have you on. 31 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.439 Yeah, great to be here, Tony, thanks for having me, Billy. 32 00:01:47.519 --> 00:01:50.840 Lots of questions around XDC. I've often had people ask 33 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:52.920 me why are you going to speak to someone from XDC, 34 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.239 and you know, are you looking at this project and 35 00:01:55.280 --> 00:01:58.719 so forth. So it's a good time for us to 36 00:01:58.840 --> 00:02:02.239 chat and I can finally learn more as well. But 37 00:02:02.319 --> 00:02:05.640 before we get to all things XDC, tell us about yourself, 38 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:07.640 where you're from and what's your professional background. 39 00:02:08.439 --> 00:02:08.919 Sure. 40 00:02:09.960 --> 00:02:15.759 Yeah, so I'm originally from Boston and I had spent 41 00:02:15.960 --> 00:02:21.360 a large part of my career in manufacturing. I've launched 42 00:02:21.360 --> 00:02:25.080 some different businesses and consumer products, some clothing businesses, import 43 00:02:25.120 --> 00:02:30.800 export and consulting as well. You know, within the manufacturing space, 44 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:35.080 and that was all prior to my time in crypto 45 00:02:35.560 --> 00:02:39.840 and getting into crypto. That's about twenty five plus years 46 00:02:40.400 --> 00:02:43.520 of time that I've spent kind of in total doing 47 00:02:43.520 --> 00:02:44.319 that other stuff. 48 00:02:45.759 --> 00:02:48.759 And what was your first encounter with bitcoin or crypto 49 00:02:48.840 --> 00:02:50.800 or blockchain and what was your AHA moment? 50 00:02:52.199 --> 00:02:54.759 Yeah, So I guess really I've probably like a lot 51 00:02:54.759 --> 00:02:57.960 of people, I had looked at bitcoin probably pretty early 52 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:04.520 twenty thirteen, in twenty fourteen and was like, oh, interesting, 53 00:03:04.639 --> 00:03:07.120 but you know, didn't really pay too much attention to it. 54 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:13.400 And I guess after the run up in twenty seventeen 55 00:03:13.960 --> 00:03:16.400 just kind of a confluence of factors kind of like 56 00:03:16.680 --> 00:03:20.800 got me to start looking at you know, bitcoin in general. 57 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:26.039 And so I got involved in early twenty eighteen. And 58 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:27.639 so that's when I really got going. 59 00:03:29.000 --> 00:03:31.439 And how did you end up working at XDC? 60 00:03:32.639 --> 00:03:35.199 So it's you know, I kind of always call it 61 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:37.879 it's like I had like a three year interview. I 62 00:03:37.960 --> 00:03:42.159 had gotten involved in early twenty eighteen in the community, 63 00:03:42.240 --> 00:03:48.240 and then sometime around November of twenty eighteen, I ended 64 00:03:48.319 --> 00:03:58.080 up meeting the founders back in They came to Boston 65 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:03.560 actually in two eighteen, and they were doing a crypto 66 00:04:03.599 --> 00:04:07.280 event for blockchain Finance, so I decided to help out 67 00:04:08.080 --> 00:04:11.680 and try to join in on, you know, some of 68 00:04:11.719 --> 00:04:14.159 the stuff they were doing, and that's how. 69 00:04:14.000 --> 00:04:14.960 We got involved. 70 00:04:15.000 --> 00:04:19.160 And I was really from that point forward focused on 71 00:04:20.040 --> 00:04:24.839 working within the community just as a community member and 72 00:04:25.600 --> 00:04:29.319 really trying to build the community out. And I think 73 00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:31.680 that was something that, as I said as part of 74 00:04:31.680 --> 00:04:34.360 the three year interview, I think by the time twenty 75 00:04:34.480 --> 00:04:36.879 rolled around, there were some things that happened with the network, 76 00:04:37.639 --> 00:04:41.800 and the founders had asked for my help, and so 77 00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:45.800 in December that year, I got involved in trying to 78 00:04:45.839 --> 00:04:49.800 resolve actually a hack issue that happened with an ERC 79 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:53.720 twenty version of our token, and then officially went to 80 00:04:53.800 --> 00:04:57.600 work in February of twenty twenty one was z infant 81 00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:03.920 and we ended up launching the actual foundation and I 82 00:05:04.000 --> 00:05:06.480 think officially in June of that year. June and twenty 83 00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:07.199 twenty one. 84 00:05:07.759 --> 00:05:13.000 Wow, and give an overview of XDC as a network 85 00:05:13.120 --> 00:05:15.959 and targeted use cases and so forth. 86 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:16.879 What is XDC. 87 00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:22.879 Yeah, so xCC we're an EVM compatible smart contracts Layer 88 00:05:22.920 --> 00:05:27.399 one platform, so we're protocol So I mean essentially, you know, 89 00:05:27.480 --> 00:05:32.079 we're as we said, we're like faster, cheaper than ethereum. 90 00:05:32.839 --> 00:05:37.480 And you know, the focus that we've really had has 91 00:05:37.519 --> 00:05:41.480 been around enterprises. So trade finance has really been kind 92 00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:46.279 of like the long tail narrative of really who we've 93 00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:48.639 been and that's really kind of led us to the 94 00:05:48.639 --> 00:05:52.439 point now where you know, we're actually launching our WA's 95 00:05:52.519 --> 00:05:57.680 on the chain and really starting to expand out that ecosystem. 96 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:02.399 So it sounds to confirm you're mainly focused on enterprises 97 00:06:02.560 --> 00:06:07.639 and the use cases are tokenization, uh maybe payments as well. 98 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.680 Yeah, so payments is something that is kind of i'd 99 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:12.600 say roadmapped right now. 100 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:14.519 It's one of those things. 101 00:06:14.279 --> 00:06:17.519 That we're really looking to expand out with some of 102 00:06:17.519 --> 00:06:20.519 the work we're doing around our WA's, But largely the 103 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:24.279 r WA stuff has been really focused on trade finance 104 00:06:25.079 --> 00:06:29.079 and you know, really kind of being true to really 105 00:06:29.199 --> 00:06:31.720 who we've been to you know, really since the beginning, 106 00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:36.319 which is helping to fund small businesses sms across the globe. 107 00:06:37.279 --> 00:06:40.600 And has that side of the or has demand grown 108 00:06:40.759 --> 00:06:44.040 since the likes of black Rock and Franklin Templeton and 109 00:06:44.079 --> 00:06:47.240 all these big Wall Street institutions who are now starting 110 00:06:47.279 --> 00:06:48.040 to tokenize. 111 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:53.519 Yeah, I'd say it's it's an interesting, you know, view 112 00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:57.120 of the from the inside because a lot of those things, 113 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:02.279 obviously we've been seeing develop over time, and I think, 114 00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:05.759 you know, a Biddle has really kind of broken things 115 00:07:05.800 --> 00:07:09.360 open in a way that you haven't really seen with 116 00:07:10.120 --> 00:07:12.800 you know, any other funds that are out there, and 117 00:07:13.079 --> 00:07:15.839 largely because they have the ability to really look at 118 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:20.560 UH taking a full tokenization of UH of a product 119 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:24.639 from the beginning. You know, for us, we've actually tokenized 120 00:07:25.319 --> 00:07:29.720 a US Treasury token and you know that's actually a 121 00:07:29.720 --> 00:07:33.759 black Rock etf fund and it's nothing to do specifically, 122 00:07:34.000 --> 00:07:37.279 you know, we're not doing anything specifically with black Rock, 123 00:07:37.399 --> 00:07:40.839 but you know, those funds, like anything else, are available 124 00:07:40.879 --> 00:07:45.360 for others to be able to tokenize, you know, in 125 00:07:45.439 --> 00:07:48.920 the space. And so I think a lot of what 126 00:07:48.959 --> 00:07:53.319 you're being what you're seeing right now are the different 127 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.639 ways in which people are trying to bring liquidity to 128 00:07:56.720 --> 00:08:00.839 the market and also finding ways for people to be 129 00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.680 liquid within that market. And I think that's the biggest 130 00:08:04.759 --> 00:08:08.199 challenge that you're dealing with with tokenization. It's not the 131 00:08:08.240 --> 00:08:12.240 ability to tokenize anything really, it's more a matter of, 132 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:15.199 you know, how do you bring the liquidity to it, 133 00:08:15.240 --> 00:08:17.639 and you know, where is the interests, you know, on 134 00:08:17.680 --> 00:08:20.800 the investment side to get involved with you know, these 135 00:08:20.959 --> 00:08:22.439 traditional assets on chain. 136 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:27.160 Now to your point, we're seeing tokenization of funds and 137 00:08:27.199 --> 00:08:30.360 maybe that's phase one. What else, and this is a 138 00:08:30.399 --> 00:08:34.240 genuine question, what else? The do you foresee the tokenization 139 00:08:34.399 --> 00:08:36.799 of what might be in phase two? Do you think 140 00:08:36.840 --> 00:08:39.279 it's like real estate or what do you think it 141 00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:39.639 might be? 142 00:08:40.840 --> 00:08:42.000 It's a it's a good question. 143 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:45.320 I mean I think that right now we're probably moving 144 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:49.480 into a private credit phase. So it's like it's interesting. 145 00:08:49.519 --> 00:08:52.360 I mean I've seen you know, you had interviewed Carlos 146 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:55.159 from Securitizing. You know, we we have been working with 147 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:59.120 securitized that's what we launched our US the US Treasury 148 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.919 token on or trade Tech, the company that did it, 149 00:09:03.559 --> 00:09:06.799 and a lot of like what we were seeing at 150 00:09:06.799 --> 00:09:11.600 that time was you know, these Treasury tokens starting to 151 00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:14.480 come on chain, and I think we were probably like 152 00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:17.879 the fifth or sixth or seventh chain to actually have 153 00:09:17.879 --> 00:09:21.879 a US Treasury token launched on it. And then you know, 154 00:09:21.919 --> 00:09:24.840 you're starting to see really kind of private credit coming 155 00:09:24.879 --> 00:09:27.200 on chain now in a way that you know, people 156 00:09:27.279 --> 00:09:32.000 are looking at how can the how can you offer 157 00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:35.720 more yield in a product in That's something that people 158 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:39.320 are looking at. And obviously with rates changing, you know, 159 00:09:39.399 --> 00:09:44.039 those are things that will fluctuate down if rates continue 160 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:45.360 to be cut with the Treasury. 161 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:47.120 So I think that there's. 162 00:09:46.879 --> 00:09:50.759 More options that people are looking at it, and I 163 00:09:50.799 --> 00:09:55.000 think that there are also the types of things that 164 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:59.639 can be offered are more simply put together. So I 165 00:09:59.639 --> 00:10:03.000 think real estate has different challenges to it that you 166 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:06.320 don't see, you know from a private credit or even 167 00:10:06.440 --> 00:10:10.720 now maybe perhaps like a stock or a bond being offered. 168 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:16.039 It's a pretty simple tokenization to do it. And those 169 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:18.440 that are in the digital space, if they want to 170 00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.639 own a digital representation of saying Vidio, they can buy it. 171 00:10:22.399 --> 00:10:25.360 So you know, those are the kind of the here 172 00:10:26.000 --> 00:10:29.240 and the now type of things that are slowly developing. 173 00:10:29.879 --> 00:10:33.000 And to your point, that definitely makes sense. Something that's 174 00:10:33.039 --> 00:10:36.440 already in the digital landscape, so to speak, it's going 175 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:38.919 to be easy to put on the blockchain versus a 176 00:10:39.000 --> 00:10:42.440 real role a building right in middle of Manhattan or 177 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:44.559 whatever it is. There's so many other implications. 178 00:10:45.320 --> 00:10:49.559 Yeah, I mean, I think like the idea of fractionalization 179 00:10:50.320 --> 00:10:53.559 of real estate is one of those things that it's 180 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:56.559 it makes a lot of sense to people. I think 181 00:10:56.639 --> 00:10:58.200 the thing is is that you know, you have to 182 00:10:58.240 --> 00:11:02.360 bring together, you know, the supply side with the demand side, 183 00:11:02.399 --> 00:11:05.440 and I think that there's a lot of challenges to that. 184 00:11:05.519 --> 00:11:06.480 And also. 185 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.639 You know where I think you're getting. Maybe first you 186 00:11:11.679 --> 00:11:17.440 would see real estate being sold and tokenized, as you know, 187 00:11:17.519 --> 00:11:20.759 any type of house is purchased or sold anywhere in 188 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:24.600 the world, and then you probably see the opportunity for 189 00:11:24.679 --> 00:11:29.440 people to come in and try to, you know, fractionalize things. 190 00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.799 But I think that look, that's it's kind of like 191 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:36.879 anything that can be tokenized. At some point somebody is 192 00:11:36.919 --> 00:11:39.519 going to try and tokenize, whether it works or doesn't. 193 00:11:40.279 --> 00:11:41.799 And I think we're going to see. 194 00:11:41.679 --> 00:11:46.799 A lot of iterations of this happening over time. And 195 00:11:46.799 --> 00:11:47.039 and I. 196 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:50.240 Have some that I think would be really exciting to see. 197 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:53.440 I don't know how they play out, but I think 198 00:11:53.480 --> 00:11:56.399 that there's some pretty cool stuff that you can tokenize 199 00:11:56.519 --> 00:11:59.879 and and it you know, if you take the lessons 200 00:12:00.120 --> 00:12:02.799 of crypto in terms of community, it makes a lot 201 00:12:02.799 --> 00:12:04.840 of sense as to why they could work. 202 00:12:05.120 --> 00:12:08.000 And do you think this may be a tough question 203 00:12:08.000 --> 00:12:10.200 to answer. You know, as governments are still in the 204 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.480 process of learning about this technology and embracing it, do 205 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.840 you think eventually companies folks like you will go to 206 00:12:17.879 --> 00:12:20.279 the US government and say, hey, let's tokenize some bonds 207 00:12:21.639 --> 00:12:22.279 and things like that. 208 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:25.559 Uh yeah, I think that. 209 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.799 You know, you really, what you have is, you know, 210 00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:32.840 you have layer ones that are building the infrastructure in 211 00:12:32.919 --> 00:12:34.759 order to be able to do these types of things, 212 00:12:34.799 --> 00:12:38.720 and so the ecosystem is built to make it easy 213 00:12:38.799 --> 00:12:42.279 for businesses to come on and say, hey, this is 214 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:45.360 something we want to tokenize. You know, right now you 215 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:50.720 have like people like securitized or businesses like Securitize that 216 00:12:51.519 --> 00:12:55.879 probably straddle the most when it comes to what's happening 217 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.480 on a regulatory perspective and you know, what can happen 218 00:13:00.039 --> 00:13:03.039 on a tokenization perspective. And so you know, there's not 219 00:13:03.120 --> 00:13:05.440 a lot of secondary markets on any of this stuff, 220 00:13:05.480 --> 00:13:11.039 but the institutions that they're working with and other institutions 221 00:13:11.080 --> 00:13:15.279 that are you know, large enterprises or banks, maybe hedge funds, 222 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:22.519 anybody that's playing kind of within that financial space who's set. 223 00:13:22.320 --> 00:13:23.000 Up all the. 224 00:13:24.679 --> 00:13:26.840 You know, they've done all of the legal work in 225 00:13:26.919 --> 00:13:29.679 order to really kind of launch something. They're the ones 226 00:13:29.679 --> 00:13:32.360 who are really in the position to go to the 227 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.799 government and say, hey, here's something that we can do. 228 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:37.679 And I think that what you would find, and I 229 00:13:37.720 --> 00:13:40.919 think what people are finding is that, you know, the 230 00:13:41.039 --> 00:13:44.399 DLT piece is really playing out, which is that there 231 00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:50.480 are pretty significant savings for enterprises or institutions when it 232 00:13:50.519 --> 00:13:54.480 comes to doing stuff on DLT as opposed. 233 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.039 To the existing systems. And so considering the. 234 00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.360 US government probably is not the most efficient of these 235 00:14:00.399 --> 00:14:03.039 areas either, I think they would probably benefit greatly out 236 00:14:03.080 --> 00:14:06.840 of you know, the tokenization of some of these assets. 237 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:11.240 Oh for sure. Now, there was some a recent milestone 238 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:13.600 that was achieved by XEC, and that is with trade 239 00:14:13.600 --> 00:14:17.879 flow capital converting traditional bills of lading if I'm saying 240 00:14:17.879 --> 00:14:20.720 that right into tokenized documents. Tell us about that. 241 00:14:22.200 --> 00:14:25.039 Yeah, So, I mean, essentially, you have. 242 00:14:26.639 --> 00:14:31.039 Some jurisdictions that are incorporating, you know, the ability to 243 00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:36.200 digitize documents in trade and therefore you're able to digitize 244 00:14:36.240 --> 00:14:39.200 those documents, create a digitalized system and then do the 245 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:43.639 complete trade and finance the electronic bill of lading. So 246 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.120 we had started with this, you know, with IMDA and 247 00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:54.039 Singapore and you know, and this is something it's limited 248 00:14:54.639 --> 00:14:58.879 really ultimately in scope because it's such a fragmented industry. 249 00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:01.240 You know, you can't just go and say, well, here's 250 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:04.519 an industry solution to something that you're doing. But I 251 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:07.919 think everything is about where you start and how you progress. 252 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:10.600 And so with what we've been able to do there 253 00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:17.399 and effectuating actual trade, we've really started to work down 254 00:15:17.399 --> 00:15:22.200 a path where the corridors that really want to take 255 00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:26.840 this on and have the proper jurisdiction that they're able 256 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:28.919 to really you know, build. 257 00:15:28.639 --> 00:15:30.720 This kind of trade by trade. 258 00:15:31.039 --> 00:15:33.360 And I think that that's a slow process. That's the 259 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:37.000 reality of that particular, you know, type of trade. I 260 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:40.039 think that you know, when we look at the ability 261 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.919 to take a group of invoices for businesses and we're 262 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:46.440 able to finance those, you know, we're kind of like 263 00:15:46.519 --> 00:15:49.240 leaving the shipping and all of that stuff out and 264 00:15:49.320 --> 00:15:52.039 those corridors are going to just be naturally dealt with 265 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.480 as it normally would be in terms of you know, 266 00:15:55.559 --> 00:15:59.519 the vendors themselves and how they're moving product across the globe. 267 00:16:00.039 --> 00:16:02.120 In this case, you're kind of like encompassing a lot 268 00:16:02.159 --> 00:16:07.200 more stuff in terms of like the jurisdictions and how 269 00:16:07.279 --> 00:16:07.919 things flow. 270 00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:10.679 So I think that there's. 271 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.320 Probably a longer road to bringing that about, but I 272 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.039 think it's pretty exciting when you can see that these 273 00:16:17.039 --> 00:16:20.120 things are actually really happening on blockchain now, and you 274 00:16:20.120 --> 00:16:22.000 know you're proving out those use cases. 275 00:16:22.480 --> 00:16:22.720 Yeah. 276 00:16:22.759 --> 00:16:28.960 Absolutely. A question I had about tokenized assets, and with 277 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:32.080 assets being tokenized on the blockchain, it opens the door 278 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:35.360 for the market to truly be global because right now, 279 00:16:35.399 --> 00:16:38.679 in certain jurisdictions or countries, people can't access like the 280 00:16:38.720 --> 00:16:41.519 New York Stock Exchange or Tessa Stock or whatever it 281 00:16:41.559 --> 00:16:43.679 may be. But if you put it on the blockchain, 282 00:16:45.240 --> 00:16:48.320 almost anyone can access it. How do you feel the 283 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:51.720 regulations will be around there, Will they open it up 284 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:56.279 everywhere or we will still have these lines so to speak, 285 00:16:56.320 --> 00:16:58.960 that you know, access it in certain parts of the world. 286 00:16:59.720 --> 00:16:59.919 Yeah. 287 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:03.759 I think that, uh, you're always going to have uh 288 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:07.480 some lagging in different areas. I mean, I've talked about 289 00:17:07.480 --> 00:17:08.720 this quite a bit in terms. 290 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:09.240 Of the US. 291 00:17:09.279 --> 00:17:11.839 I think then I've kind of harped on it where 292 00:17:11.839 --> 00:17:14.559 recently I think like Mark Cuban had said something about 293 00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.359 how you know, the way in which this has been 294 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:21.799 handled punitively in the US has probably shaved you know, 295 00:17:22.079 --> 00:17:25.240 one point of GDP off of the US economy. And 296 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:28.640 and I really, I really do believe that from the 297 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:33.279 standpoint of uh, you know, where a burgeoning industry that's 298 00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:37.279 looking to bring technology to the forefront that can help 299 00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.559 other industries just across the globe and in the US, 300 00:17:41.160 --> 00:17:44.960 and something as simple as trying to tokenize an asset 301 00:17:45.200 --> 00:17:49.599 or even what somebody may normally do to to launch 302 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:53.960 something within and within their own industry to increase or 303 00:17:54.079 --> 00:17:57.440 improve or disrupt what's going on. So they're trying to 304 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:02.839 increase efficiencies and throughputs and decrease costs. This is really 305 00:18:02.920 --> 00:18:05.079 a challenge that businesses have to look at and say, 306 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:07.319 you know, do I want to go down the path 307 00:18:07.359 --> 00:18:10.839 of it's already a competitive market. Now I have to 308 00:18:10.880 --> 00:18:14.960 deal with uncertainty around what's going on from a jurisdictional 309 00:18:15.119 --> 00:18:17.039 you know, like legal perspective, and so now I have 310 00:18:17.440 --> 00:18:20.160 two major things I have to deal with. And so 311 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:23.680 you see a lot of talent, you know, leaving the 312 00:18:23.799 --> 00:18:25.960 US as a result of that and going elsewhere, and 313 00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.319 even just in the industry talking to people who are 314 00:18:29.359 --> 00:18:33.039 in Europe, they just have a much easier time doing things. 315 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:33.240 Than we do. 316 00:18:33.920 --> 00:18:37.039 So I think there is going to be a leveling 317 00:18:37.079 --> 00:18:41.599 out because at some point the people who just kind 318 00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:45.759 of are showing hate for crypto are confusing that with 319 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.640 you know, what they think they need to do to 320 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:52.519 really kind of you know, they do it in the 321 00:18:53.039 --> 00:18:57.480 terms of protecting people, but in other I don't know whether. 322 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:00.440 I don't really think that that's the case in terms 323 00:19:00.440 --> 00:19:04.759 of how it's played out. So I think that people 324 00:19:04.839 --> 00:19:07.519 are going to be coming in one way or another, 325 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:09.680 as we know, with what's coming up in a couple 326 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:14.599 of weeks. And I think that there's a loosening here 327 00:19:14.640 --> 00:19:18.359 in the US, and hopefully you see signs of what 328 00:19:18.400 --> 00:19:21.720 they're doing in other jurisdictions, you know, Mica or things 329 00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:25.119 like that in Europe where they're clarifying things. Whether you 330 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.480 like it or not, it's these things are starting to 331 00:19:28.519 --> 00:19:34.079 make things easier in terms of clarity, and so you're 332 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:38.839 going to have to move closer together. How that goes, 333 00:19:38.920 --> 00:19:43.079 how soon all that stuff, it's it's really really tough 334 00:19:43.079 --> 00:19:46.079 to tell, but a lot can happen in two years. 335 00:19:46.759 --> 00:19:50.119 So I'm hopeful, yeah, really hopeful. 336 00:19:50.559 --> 00:19:52.640 Yeah, I agree, And it seems like we're on the path. 337 00:19:52.880 --> 00:19:55.079 You know, at least we're on the path walking towards 338 00:19:55.119 --> 00:19:59.880 the destination of all these things converging together. And Congress 339 00:20:00.119 --> 00:20:02.279 here at least is starting to make some moves and 340 00:20:02.279 --> 00:20:06.160 you're seeing bipartisan efforts and maybe to your point, you know, 341 00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:10.000 the EU making that move with the MICA regulations. It's 342 00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:12.839 going to put pressure finally on the folks here like Okay, 343 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:14.440 we got to wake up, we gotta get get to 344 00:20:14.480 --> 00:20:15.240 get going here. 345 00:20:15.440 --> 00:20:22.680 Yeah, yeah, I agree. I think that's that's probably the key, right, 346 00:20:23.000 --> 00:20:24.640 you know, all of those things coming together. 347 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:30.440 M now XDC two point zero recent launch, tell us 348 00:20:30.480 --> 00:20:33.119 about this and what are the upgrades and the impact 349 00:20:33.119 --> 00:20:33.839 you think you will have. 350 00:20:35.000 --> 00:20:39.960 Yeah, so we recently upgraded from our original protocol to 351 00:20:40.519 --> 00:20:44.000 two point zero. We were a delegated proof of steak. 352 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:51.480 This particular launch really geared more towards upgrading the protocol 353 00:20:51.559 --> 00:20:54.920 for in a couple of different areas. But it's now 354 00:20:55.319 --> 00:21:01.799 really a Byzantine fault tolerant consensus mechanism with a security 355 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:06.160 layer that's been added in. Originally that's how it started, 356 00:21:06.160 --> 00:21:10.839 but we really have as it's kind of developed. I 357 00:21:10.839 --> 00:21:13.599 think one of the major features that we've really brought 358 00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:19.519 forward is a private subnet that's now able to be 359 00:21:19.599 --> 00:21:23.880 set up on the network, and so essentially it's a 360 00:21:23.920 --> 00:21:26.519 side chain. I think if you kind of look at 361 00:21:26.599 --> 00:21:31.160 what Avalanche has done with their subnets, it's probably most 362 00:21:31.200 --> 00:21:34.319 similar to what they've done there. 363 00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:38.200 So we've enabled the opportunity to. 364 00:21:39.839 --> 00:21:44.720 Build a side chain in a private environment or permission 365 00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:50.200 environment that allows and enterprises and institutions to really set 366 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:52.920 up the parameters that they want to set up. 367 00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:53.680 So if they want to. 368 00:21:53.640 --> 00:21:58.559 Have or it's required that they have their consensus mechanism 369 00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.319 within a particular uristiction, they can set it up that way. 370 00:22:02.640 --> 00:22:05.920 And so we have a sub subject manager that allows 371 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:09.440 for easy set up. And I think, you know, to me, 372 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.559 one of the game changes around this is that what 373 00:22:12.799 --> 00:22:18.119 you're now from an institutional perspective, you know, people were 374 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.200 looking at, well, I don't want to be on a 375 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:24.160 public blockchain. Although that's changed a little bit in terms of, 376 00:22:24.440 --> 00:22:26.759 you know, having some of the benefits of public blockchain, 377 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.599 there's still a lot of institutions that are saying, or 378 00:22:29.680 --> 00:22:33.920 businesses are saying, we're going to build our own network. 379 00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:36.359 We're not going to do anything with any of these 380 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:39.519 public networks. And now you know, this is really kind of, 381 00:22:40.200 --> 00:22:44.039 I guess, another way of bringing blockchain closer to a 382 00:22:44.039 --> 00:22:47.000 lot of these businesses where they can set up what 383 00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:50.720 they intended to set up, but it's already really built, 384 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:54.079 and so you know, the manager's there the ability to 385 00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:57.279 if they want to create a token, whatever application they 386 00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:00.240 want to build on it, whatever information they want to 387 00:23:00.279 --> 00:23:03.880 relay to the public network, they can do so they 388 00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:07.359 can have you know, the great the best benefits of 389 00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.799 cryptography from a public perspective with the benefits of you know, 390 00:23:11.839 --> 00:23:17.680 a private, permissioned environment. And that's one of the directions 391 00:23:17.880 --> 00:23:20.920 or like that part of the feedback in which we've 392 00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:24.200 gotten over the years from institutions, and so it's something 393 00:23:24.240 --> 00:23:24.759 that's been in. 394 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:26.000 The works for quite a long time. 395 00:23:27.519 --> 00:23:30.720 And the other part of the security piece is you 396 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:33.079 know that we have a judiciary really now that's been 397 00:23:33.119 --> 00:23:36.880 set up. So the judiciary itself, it's all within a 398 00:23:36.960 --> 00:23:41.720 dashboard that is, you know, from a code perspective, is 399 00:23:41.759 --> 00:23:45.200 overseeing what's going on with these nodes, and so if 400 00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:49.960 there's any nefarious activity by a particular node, it's immediately. 401 00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.200