Speaker 1: What is up, Fellawsiko's I am Dan Pavalley coming at
you with the one the only you know him from
the NBA podcast, fame of Yahoo Sports, fame of HBO
Max fame, and of course we are most likely to
recognize him from Only Fans celebrity. Mister Mort Jensen. We
are gathered around the Hardware Knocks camp fire today, just
talk about some questions we have now that the offseason
has kind of settled into a crawl. We're past the
avalanche of transactions, the surprise trades, trying to make sense
of all that. Still a lot of business left unfinished
and that will be the focus of some of our questions.
But a chance to bounce around to some teams that
I mean, Mort and I just haven't talked about it
all since we haven't spoken in a minute. But some
off seasons that we haven't really had the chance to
cover also have some news. I'm sure we'll get to
with Donovan Mitchell signing in an extension. But before we
dive into the hashtag, I guess it's not slop. Would
it be the clean? What would it be? I don't know.
We're gonna dive into the aftermath. It's not slop anymore more.
How the heck are you doing?
Speaker 2: I am doing well, sir? How about you? It's no
complaints here, right, I mean it's summer. The NBA season
is over, which means we at least have a little
bit of time to ourselves like we.
Speaker 1: Just had, sir. We got we got Salt Lake City
Summer League to watch.
Speaker 2: So am I am? I not a real analyst? If
I tell you that, I'm just not. I'm not gonna
bother with summer leak this year.
Speaker 1: Well it's kind of a bummer because now you're not
gonna see that Darren Peterson is like gonna make the
Hall of Fame even before he retires. I don't know
if that's ever been done before the NBA, but right
the trajectory he's on.
Speaker 2: I did see some clips and good lords you look.
Speaker 1: You were you were there on him too, And like me,
who didn't have enough draft like knowledge at the time,
was I feel like, maybe agrient demands are shot making
my scale a little bit better. I watched like in
the when I was doing prep on Darren Peterson, I
was like, oh, no, okay, I understand it, And then
watching it was like the first game he has. Oh no, yeah,
he just he's got it. Capslock it. He's gonna be capslock.
But I'll let you start. You're the guest. What is
the question? Well, we'll have to talk about Lebron James
at some point, but let's save it to the end,
just because maybe he'll sign. He probably won't, but I
think he's trying to my hot take, this will be dated.
He's going to try and break the July eleventh record
that he had. That's the latest he's announced his hashtag decision.
So July twelfth and after, folks, that's when we can
expect to get a decision. I've decided, that's what we're
doing here. That's that's when you decided. Yeah, I've decided.
But more where would you like to go first?
Speaker 2: I would like to go to San Antonio because I
haven't a shock him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, we'll allow it because you were out
in front of them too. You were just so right
about this burds this year, so I'll allow it.
Speaker 2: Right, But I have a wrinkle that I haven't told
you about, because you and I we're going to have
a little bit of a co op thing with a
point that I'm going to go to later, so Demarta Rosen.
Obviously he's now a free agent. He knows the system
in San Antonio, even though it's not Pop on the sidelines,
like he's aware of the organization's tendencies and how it works.
He was there for three years now. I personally think
that they need someone like him if they return to
the finals, because I just don't think a presence of
mar de Rosen would have allowed them to lose that
twenty nine point lead. I think they needed a calming presence.
And you know, we as an NBA grouping tend to
really criticize Damar for a lot of things, like the
fact that he doesn't shoot threes. He's not a strong defender.
All that's correct, but let's not forget his strengths either,
Like this dude is so safe handling the ball. His
veteran leadership is ridiculously good. He is tremendous at taking
young guys under his wing. He is able to facilitate
shots both off his own accord and to and when
shit hits the fan, he's usually a player who can
calm everyone down and say, look, I got this, and
it might not be super efficient, but then he'll have
a couple of possessions where he hits a mid ranger
or he'll get to the foul line, like, He'll do
some of those things and everyone would probably think, well
they have Kelton Johnson.
Speaker 1: They do.
Speaker 2: And I love Kelton. I think the sixth Man of
the Year award was deserving. The problem was he couldn't
carry it over into the postseason at all. He had
just a horrible, horrible playoffs. And this is where you
and I need to cooperate a little bit, because my
idea is to bring DeMar in as a free agent
and then use Kelton's eighteen million dollar contract plus possible
draft equity to strengthen the team even more. So that's
my idea, and then you and I have to figure
out what can the Spurs get for a Kelton plus
us potential draft equity. You're muted, sir by the way.
Speaker 1: Here we go. We're in prime for him here. The
Demarta Rosen thing is interesting. I don't I'm not gonna lie.
I don't like it. I understand, I understand the reasons
you're outlaying, but I think that if you bring someone
that has his on ball share into that offense, and
this was I think last year, thirty five point one
percent of his team's on ball actions went to him
when he was in the game. That was his lowest
mark since like twenty thirteen to twenty fourteen. That's still
a pretty hefty share. I worry. One of my big
qualms with the Spurs is that they didn't give Dylan
Harper enough run of the run, a bunch of picking rolls,
or run the offense during the regular season. I think
that probably gets harder with the rosen on the team.
I would like this or I would understand this more
if the trade that you're insinuating their making was well,
we just and I don't think they're due they'll do that.
I'm not even necessarily advocating for it. But if the
trade was, well, we're attaching Steph Castle to Keldon Johnson
for player X, because then you can talk yourself into
them needing depending on who they acquire another ball handler.
Just right now, I think the fit is you get
into DeRozan. Can he play with Castle? Probably not? And
can you You can't really get to you know, do
you want Fox and Castle and DeRozan on the court
at the same time. I think you've been having two
of those guys at points could be a stretch for them,
So that would be my concern there Again, though it
would depend on, well, what is the trade idea that
you have if you're just trying to ship out Kelden
Johnson plus draft equity, I think that the DeMar de
Rosen things should be a non starter for them, is
where I'd be at.
Speaker 2: So I get what you're saying, but I also think
you would have to enter into the premise with the
Roes and the fact that he's forty seven, Like you
have to have a real sit down with him and
basically say, look, you're not gonna be the primary guy here,
not even off the bench. Dylan Harper is our next
A guy like you will have to take a complimentary role.
You will basically have to be utilized in a manner
where when we need your calmness, when we need your
veteran leadership, when we need your shot making at a
certain level, that's when we accelerate. That's when we try
to give you some more equity on the floor. Like
it doesn't have to be you know, typical De Marta
Rosen where he comes in and milks the shot clock
for sixteen seconds like you will have to agree with
him on certain things. By the way, sir, you're muted
once again, we are indeed in prime form.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, kings fan absolutely loved that. I
actually don't even think I'm touching it. I think my
mic is just overreacting, But kings fans, I was just
making a Joe Kings fans loved the Demart Rosen pound
the ball and keep it to the shot talk experience. No.
Speaker 2: I mean, look that the Spurs also love to move
the ball in a different way, and I thought I
actually thought he was like pretty potent of that during
his tenure there DeRozan in San Antonio. I felt as
though he was more quick to give up the ball,
and we saw that he had like a six point
nine assist average at one point. So I would just
feel comfortable with him in that system. Although I do
get your point, because you want to give Dylan Harper
that freedom, right, you want to make him that dude
from the perimeter, like even off the bench, like and
that's the thing, right, That's almost a different question as well,
like can you even justify not starting Dylan Harper next
season or this season? I don't think I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think if you if you felt as if you
couldn't start him Daron Fox and Steph Castle, I would
argue that Steph Castle or Daron Fox would come off
the bench. But that does lead into so two things here.
Do you think DeMar derozen is one willing to accept
that role because he is more he's come off the
bench twelve times his entire career and not since his
rookie season, which is actually kudos to him. That's insane.
So that's that's a good question. And I've thought about it,
because you could technically make him a little bit of
a token starter, like if that's what his entire thing is,
and then after six minutes you could step him out
and then more or let's just play him with the
bench unit, like there are ways so you can finagle this,
but no, like if you you're asking me point blank,
I would rather have like Julian Champenni as the main guy,
Like what is the plan with Tobias Harris, Like are
we just penciling him in as the starting four at
this point? He's a kind of another guy, whereas he's
always just kind of in those central lineups too. Write
I think so I feel as if they'll bring Julian
Champenny off the bench, and then it will be we
will see Fox as of right now with Harper and Castle,
Wemby and Tobias Harris. I don't think those are their
five best players, just because I think Julian Champenny at
this stage is better and Tobias Harris for sure, Man,
if you're starting all those three to marts and off
the bench, I don't hate it. The shooting is I
look at this team and still think I want a
higher volume shooter in there. Because Tobias Harris spurs fans.
Let's set the over under a to eleven and a
half games before they're like, why doesn't this dude shoot
more threes? So you add to Marta Rozen into that,
who's just not a three point shooter. And now you
have a bunch of guys in Diaron Fox, even Dylan Harper,
Steph Castle, they're all just better on the ball. And
I know, I don't know why I mentioned Steph Castle's
name first before, but this would also be a move
I'd be more inclined to explore from San Antonio had
they made the Fox trade. Everyone was sort of thinking
about because his four year, two hundred and twenty one
point seven million dollar extension is kicking in. Maybe that
would be I just as currently constructed, even if it's
for the minimum. I don't I don't think the Marta
Rosen makes it. Everything you're saying makes absolute sense, but
I think it takes away from unless you're moving Fox,
it takes away from the runway of doing Harper more
than anybody else. And I honestly he's the second most
important person in that building right now, and so I
think that that has to matter a great deal. I
don't disagree.
Speaker 2: And also I think it's the with the caveat that
you pivot off Kelton right because Kelton is not a
natural shooter as well. We thought he kind of went
there during the course of the regular season, he was
what worth forty forty percent from long range. It just
wasn't able to be a maintaining quality in the playoffs,
which was a problem. So you could finacle that to
where Keldon is shipped out for shooters. But the thing
that's the thing, right, like that, it's so difficult to
find those guys like Detroit. I'm still surprised though, Like
Detroit got I say it, Joe for what was in
like two seconds?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was Why did in san Antonio? I guess
they have a ton of guards. Is that where you're
getting in that?
Speaker 2: And also I don't I just don't think Sam Presty
would have traded with san Antonio.
Speaker 1: You know what he's Yeah, he's enough of a sicco
for right ooh regular, Well, so I think this bleeds
into what type of targets were you thinking about for them?
You were thinking just Keldon Johnson because Regulator in the
chat says with Demart Rosen, I would be would MPJ
be too much? F forty one million? That's a lot.
I mean, if you're giving up Fox, give up Fox
for Michael Porter Junior then signed DeMar Derozen. The Nets
have MIKEL. Brown though, So I don't know if they
want Daron Fox in that building.
Speaker 2: Right, I would do that straight though. And this is
the thing, it's going to sound so harsh to Daron
Fox because we know that he played on a bum ankle.
We know a bunch of these things. It's just you
have to clear the runway.
Speaker 1: You just have to. And it is not as as
I would say, the foremost Daron Fox defender to focusing
a lot on that ankle. He's paid like an All
NBA candidate, and I think consistently he's been around fringe
all star production. And his deal is less problematic for
San Antonio because next year three of their foremost important
players are on rookie scales. The year after that, so
Victor woman Yama, when he signs an extension, that kicks
in two of their foremost important players around oaky scales.
So by the time you start to get expensive, dearnon,
Fox's deal is halfway over, you throw him onto another team.
I think that deal does look a lot worse. We've
seen the rim frequency decline on the free throw attempts
per one hundred possessions decline, and he's not I think
you could talk yourself and do okay when it's Donovan
Mitchell who's now owed over three hundred million dollars over
the next half decade. I doubt that deal age as well.
But at least he has the three point volume to
fall back on. That's never been something Fox has. I
think he's underrated as a playmaker, but does that change
at all as he struggles to generate You know, if
he doesn't have the blow by speed. What if he
starts to struggle to get that lateral or or you know,
north south separation from people. I just yeah, I'm I
guess I would. Oh, no, am I there already for
I don't, I don't know. It's just it's such a
huge shake up after making the NBA Finals in a sense,
like you're moving this big piece, big salary piece for
Michael Porter Junior, who you know, and we think spurs.
I'm not sure Michael Porter Junior is the first player
that springs to mind there, probably one of the last.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, but at least the three point shooting is legit, right,
like just him shooting off the attention given to Dylan Harper's,
to Von Castle and Wemby like good lord, good lord.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean his rebounding would probably help, yeah, but
helped him too at the four spot. Trey Murphy would
be the name everyone throws out there. That's that's everyone.
Speaker 2: You just say it, Dan, It's that's been our wagon
for like six months.
Speaker 1: At least more. Are you ready to react to breaking
news here? I don't need to ask my question about
the Lakers anymore. Their defense is solved. They signed Cavan Looney.
It's all gonna be Everything's gonna be fine in Lakerland.
We're good.
Speaker 2: Kim On Looney to the Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 1: My character guy. But you know, oh yeah, he hears
move from from being a useful player.
Speaker 2: I would argue, well, quality rebounder still.
Speaker 1: Get fair. I have questions about how he holds up
if you want to use him as like a switch
guy or someone just as any sort of mobility, even
if you're using him just as a backline stop. Anyway,
Trey Murphy is the name. What you given the Spurs
a salary structure. You could just do Keldon Johnson for
Trey Murphy, basically get you. The Pelicans won't accept that,
of course, But Trey Murphy for Kelton would I want
to ask you, because we could get into the draft compensation.
If you're the Spurs, would you give up Carter Bryant
and picks with Calton Johnson to get Trey Murphy.
Speaker 2: I'm not giving up Carter Brian and picks with Kelton
for Trey Murphy. H I it's okay, all right with
the caveat that those picks could be like protected up
the WAE suit, right, like if they are all right,
let's have a conversation. But like, if the Pelicans are
insisting that Carter Brian and two unprotected first rounders, then
becomes a little bit.
Speaker 1: Dicey, not the fact.
Speaker 2: Like, again, it's not that I expect the Spurs to
be bad at any point, so like, you could probably
talk yourself into it, but I would I think Carter
Brian is a legit rotational player next year, I think
he's good. So if you're asking me, wrote though, if
you change your question a little bit, like what would
you rather do, give up draft equity or Carter Bryant,
I'm giving up.
Speaker 1: The draft equity. I guess the question comes then how
much draft equity are you willing to include? Because what
I would say is Keldon Johnson had two first round picks.
If I'm New Orleans, I'm not doing that trade, which
sounds insane because two first round picks just got Philly
Jallen Brown make change for Broth. But when you're dealing
with Trey Murphy, who's on not only is he universally
scalable as a player, but his contract is so appealing
to every single team, especially one like the Spurs, that
in theory will get progressively more expensive as their younger
core gets paid.
Speaker 2: So how many draft picks would I give up?
Speaker 1: It's a minimum of two, and I don't think that
would be enough.
Speaker 2: No, And like if it's three and they're somewhat protected
all three, like what are we looking at? Are we
looking at one or two fully unprotected?
Speaker 1: Well? I do think. Also what's interesting about the Spurs
is that they've set themselves up with some like swap
rights in later years where they have the swap with
Dallas or Minnesota in twenty thirty and then the twenty
thirty one swap with Sacramento. So is like if you're
looking at and saying, and they have two first and
next year's draft, right, so I think, oh, no, they
gave up their twenty seven is going to Sacramento or
Oklahoma City. Yeah, I think you give up the twenty
seven Atlanta first, and then from there you're looking at
twenty nine and then do you protect twenty thirty one?
Is that if you're keeping Carter?
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you keep no, you know what, screw it?
Give them up. It's okay because you're getting Trey freakin' Murphy.
You have to pay through the nose to get him.
I'm okay with that three firsts if that for twenty
forty one is only modestly protected, but that's actually the
swap with Sacramento. Fine, fine, because look, let's be real here,
if they get Trey Murphy in this year, are they
not like the front front and are waitting the whole
damn thing?
Speaker 1: I don't. Some of the sports books have them ahead
of the Thunder. I think once the Thunder started cutting salary,
the Spurs might have moved ahead of the Thunder in
some lines to win the title next year, which is
I mean, they just made the finals, so maybe it's
not that insane, but I find that Preven crazy. Well,
I mean.
Speaker 2: This, look, we'll get there. Well, like, we're a couple
of months away from doing season previews and I'm guessing
you and I were doing a bunch of them, so
we'll get there. We'll get there. But overall, Dan, because
we're almost twenty minutes in and we have a lot
of ground to cover.
Speaker 1: So like, what over there any other names I guess
you wanted to like? Would you like?
Speaker 2: So we're going to return to we can sit here
and beat around the bush. It's try Murphy, It's you
and I.
Speaker 1: So your SEGM needs to be it couldn't be. So
let's as an example, I'm assuming they want someone back
because they're not that deep into the tacks. But Boston,
I'm assuming it's not going to pay the tax now
because they're like two plus million Injuran or whatever does
Sam Hauser do? Like what is the like? Are you
saying the Spurs need to make this bigger time swing er?
Can it be more of a Okay? That's interesting And.
Speaker 2: The reason I say it is because you kind of
alluded to it earlier wemby his extension. He's gonna sign
it now and it's gonna king in next to year.
Speaker 1: Honestly, where is it the drop? Right? Right? I mean
good lord?
Speaker 2: No, But like overall, I just think this organization, uh,
they I I've been I don't want to say I've
been disappointed about what they've done this this summer, but
I did expect them to go out and do something
a little bit more major than signing Tobias Harris and
trading in to get Jaden Quainton's like you know, you're
you're looking at that Texas club and going hello, I
mean got in, come on, go get it right, like
go get do something, do something more.
Speaker 1: I understand where you're coming from, but I also see
the theory, especially when you're looking at some of these
other teams busting up as they're getting more expensive. Of
let's explore the medium sized moves or smaller to see
you have Carter Brian. Here's a good example. You're saying
you want to keep Carter Brian as part of a
Trey Murphy deal. That's someone who's going to block playing
time for Carter Bryant if you're having Trey Murphy play
thirty plus minutes a game, and so I think that
needs to be part of your.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily agree with that.
Speaker 1: You want Carter Brian at the five? Didn't they just drawers?
Speaker 2: I look, that's the thing about Carter Brian, right, I
think he can play two. I think he can play three.
I think he can play four, and I think he
can play small ball five. Like to me, he obviously
he's not Ben Simmons like in that regard where you
can just play him five positions. But Carter Brian has
the potential to be a four position player. I frankly
just do not care. He's one of those players who
I think is going to be someone who you just
trot out and you can play him in so many
different lineups, variations, and that is just how he's going
to get minutes.
Speaker 1: So I'm not even worried about that. That's fair. I
guess we just look if they went after Tray Murphy.
You're not going to catch me saying that's a bad idea.
I guess we just disagree on whether they need to
explore the agency. At this moment, you and I also
agree on everything though. What is up Fellowsikos You're listening
to this episode right now thinking Wow, would be so
cool if there were no ads on it.
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Speaker 1: And now back to the let's go, let's stick with
small market, go Los Angeles Lakers. Here more. What is
the Lakers' defensive ceiling? And before you answer, I will
say sign. They just signed Cavon Looney, so it's first
in the league and I won't listen to anything other
than that. I caught a lot of crap for my
comments on the Lakers off season the other day. I'm
still just I am unmoved by it when just looking
at the value proposition. It's not just the Walker Kessler
contract is whatever. It's more so the picks they gave
up to get him. But I'm looking at the talent
they've now surrounded. Luka reevesing Kessler with I don't think
yeah Prometheus, who says the snow time Lakers, the ghost
time Lakers. I've seen that too. A lot of funny
names for these guys. They just losing Marcus Smart. I
think they got bet worse, excuse me, substantially worse on
the perimeter defensively, And so now you're putting a lot
of onus on Walker Kessler, who I think is a
transcendent room protector. When you look at all the impact metrics,
those are gonna be there. I don't know if that's
a I don't know if that's enough. What a lot
of people have pointed to, and this is fair, is
that JJ Reddick has cobbled together some stronger defensive showings
with let's say below average defensive talent overall. And maybe
there's something to that. Because the Lakers ended up finishing
last year against top ten offenses were twenty first in
points allowed per possession. That's if your offense is gonna
be a healthy Luca, healthy Reeves and we're assuming that
you can have a top five offense in those situations.
Twenty first in defense against top ten offenses isn't bad.
And now you're saying they did upgrade the center position
for wherever you feel about the value of it Walker Kessler,
like when he was on the court in Utah all
those years, they still have the equivalent of a bottom
five defense, but it's just different on a team that's
not trying to win, So I don't want to throw
that out entirely, but they've upgraded the center position, and
if they were already around twentieth twenty first again in
defensive efficiency against top ten offenses, I'm a little bit
more open to the fact that, oh, this team's defensive
ceiling is higher than we might expect, and that only
has a I'm not even just talking about, oh, they'll
get lucky from an opponent three point shooting perspective. My
main concern with them is I'm looking at this roster
right now, and without the acquisition of a capable wing,
at least one of them and John Vin Kamingo does
not count. I don't want to hear John Thinkmeninga is
gonna be someone that improves their defense. I don't think
that they're gonna have what it takes to do enough
damage in the playoffs. I don't think the Walker Kessler
as your everything is gonna fly in the postseason. And so,
after thinking about it, I did say this on that
podcast I believe you can squint and cs and err
in which the Lakers finished third in the West next year.
I don't think they're gonna have the ceiling of a
typical third p third seed in once you get to
the playoffs again, unless there's changes made here, and maybe
is Jared Vanderbilt going to be due for a renaissance
or can they turn his contract or somebody else into
into something. They don't have any assets left too, like
the twenty thirty two swap is their best is their
best asset left on the table, So I just don't
I don't know what to make of them defensively, And
I will say if they have better than a fifteenth
ranked defense, so an above average defense, let's say, I
won't be as surprised after giving it more consideration and
seeing maybe what Walker Kessler does for them relative to
what was already in place last season. But I don't know.
Just the more I look at this roster, I forget
they also have Cameron Carr if they wanted to dangle
him in trade talks to I'm I'm just very interested
to see where they end up defensively, because there's I
would argue too much on Walker Kessler's shoulders right now.
So as much as they upgraded the center position, I
just think they're worse on the perimeter by a noticeable amount.
Speaker 2: So your point is that they are just not going
to be good enough defensively, or at least that's your fear.
I all right, So I think there is another component
to this. I think opponents will take the ball out
of the basket a lot, a lot, because this team
could have one of the best offensive, if not the
best offense in the entire league this year. And if
that's the case, opponents are gonna have to take the
ball out of bounds and go in and like the
Lakers can set their defense. So I think that is
something that the plays along here as well. Plus it's
a big lineup too. Lucas sixty seven reefs Yeah, all right,
six' five off, guard but still, movable like if they
can just funnel drives To Ward. KESSLER i feel pretty
confident about. That Jared vanderbilts like might actually play this
year because of what you. Said he can play on the.
Speaker 1: Perimeter he's that makes you feel good, though doesn't.
Speaker 2: Know But i'm Also i'm also like a little curious
because do you think they're Done Like dulton, connect they're
just not using. Him it feels like there's something that's
got to. Give they're also going to pivot Off browny
to get him to Where lebron is gonna. Go, LIKE
i just don't know where we are at this, Point
like is this an established? Roster oh And Quentin. GRIMES
i don't hate him defensively.
Speaker 1: Either, no you're. RIGHT i didn't even Mention Quentin. Grimes
so that's a good call out. THERE i don't the
problem with him is when you dig into the matchup,
data HE i don't think he can be a real,
wing especially come playoff, again this comes back to the.
Playoffs you could scale to the three in some. Instances,
OTHERWISE i think what he helps you do Is Austin
reeves is never gonna have to like be on the
like opposing like the best opposing. Guard and so that's
a luxury That Quentin grimes will give you. There they
were also weirdly twelfth points. Allowed to your point, about,
oh what happens when you get your like if you're
able to get your your defense, set they were nineteen
or excuse. Me after a made, shot they were twenty
third in points alot of per posession last, year but
after a misshot they were tenth in points alot perposesson last,
year which makes no sense when you look at their personnel.
There So i'm with. YOU i don't think they can be.
Done and, also you did. Downgrade as much as we
like to poke fun At DeAndre ayton by moving him To,
washington you did. Downgrade you're but going from him To
Kevon looney is a. Downgrade is your backup center? Right?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yes but but the backup center Is Soundra Mamo.
Keilasheeley that LOOK i Like.
Speaker 1: Mamu that deal is very interesting just from someone who's
not known as a rebounder or, defender can space and.
Drive of COURSE i. Was i'm not gonna lie that
Was that was one of the numbers that stood out to.
Me and by the, way The lakers' front office continues
to get dog in negotiations because you, see all these
other teams have these team options at the end of these,
deals and The lakers are still just giving up player
options Like candy and, so by the, way they could
be the second best team in The west next year.
Whatever but the process for them this, OFFSEASON i, think
even in their most optimistic outcome has been. Questionable but,
Yeah I'm i'm with you in the sense THAT i
want to believe OR i have to believe that they're not.
DONE i just don't know what moves are available to.
Them regulator in the chat Says vanderbilt For Caleb, martin
and IT'S i, mean if that's the point we're, at you're,
Sure BUT i just don't move the needle three years
ago he was two years? Ago are you? Certainly?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, right but we're talking twenty twenty. SIX i agree, That,
like CAN i ask, you like lou Dord, in, okay see,
right like what's the plan? There do you think like
they picked up his? Option but are we sure that
that he's part of the long term calculus? There because
that could be someone who they could perhaps finnacle into
some and maybe save them a buck or.
Speaker 1: Two and, okay, see that'll, well they're not gonna be
able to save, okay see real money anymore because they
burned through all their tap. Space so it would have
to be can we find a third team to take
On Jared vanderbilt's? Contract AND i don't. Know, ONE i
don't think, okaysee is moving lou dort just for like tax?
Relief and then TWO i don't know that The, LAKERS i,
mean would you give Up Cameron carr to get off
Of Jared vanderbilt's. Money, NO i am not giving up Camp.
Car THEN i don't. LIKE i just don't. Like it's
the twenty thirty two swap enough to get off Of Jared.
Vanderbilts he's got two years and like twenty five and
a half million left on his.
Speaker 2: Contract, yeah that deal was always pretty, horrendous wasn't.
Speaker 1: It it wasn't. Great, Yeah look they Have Jayden hardy
And Jake lareviar are functionally on expiring.
Speaker 2: Contracts i'm not crazy BY i think you raise a good,
Point LIKE i don't like the perimeter defense on this,
Team but do we have.
Speaker 1: To worry about?
Speaker 2: That that's that, Extent like as long As kessler's, there
are just cleaning up. Inside like, again, yes he'll have
to be. Healthy but if we assume, health are the
ain't that bad shape?
Speaker 1: Defense, HONESTLY i don't. Know in the regular season they
might make it. WORK i think in the playoffs they'll
be a deer in. Headlights but maybe Between vanderbilt And
grimes And Jake laavia being, there maybe there's a move TO.
TBD i, mean If Dorian Finney smith is healthy he'll
get him From charlotte with one of like some of
this money the way To is there a bad deal
out there that you Could so you Have Jayden hardy at,
Six Jake larevia at, six and Even Jared vanderbilt at,
Twelve so is there like a bad contract out they
can't get To Jeremy grant's money. Anymore For memphis they
could maybe, get BUT i don't think he does solves
ANYTHING kcp In memphis or maybe they just become A
kcp destination If memphis.
Speaker 2: Bidding, yeah that's a good. One LIKE i he's had
a couple of rough, seasons but like THAT'S i like that.
One that's. GOOD cacp would be super. INTERESTING i mean
he can still. Defend, no but he would Because.
Speaker 1: I'm just laughing because that's where where that's where we.
Speaker 2: Are, yeah but LIKE i still think he can. DEFEND
i still think he can hit the occasional three, Ball like,
there there's there is something there and that is what they,
needed Right like they needed the two way, play and
that's it's still their. Issue like, frankly that was the
issue for a while And I'm i'm kind of looking
at what they did this, year and for the most
part it has been one position player, acquisitions again Like Colin,
saxton primarily an offensive mind the, players same with With
sounds Fra, Mamo, Kilosch, Feeley Austin reese as well retaining
Like i'm, sorry LOOK i LOVE i love that.
Speaker 1: Sense there's Always Patrick, yes, yes we got the best.
Audience they get, it they Get there is Always Patrick,
williams Always Patrick.
Speaker 2: Williams he is always available when in, doubt can we
Get Patrick?
Speaker 1: Willims yes you. Can you can for a few minutes.
Composed that is. GOOD i love.
Speaker 2: That but all, right, frankly all, Right i'm gonna ask you,
this because that's a good ask. Question what do you
rather have? With like contrast side.
Speaker 1: Which vanderbilt And Jayden? Hardy For Patrick, williams the money
is like a dead. MATCH i, mean good, Lord chicago gets,
out So Jayden hardy comes off the books next year war,
years so they Poor, lakers but then they have some
mid end salary. Matching BUT i, MIGHT i might talk
myself into. This i'm not gonna lie because look how
much IS i guess if you Believe jared you said,
before or if you Believe Jared vanderbilt is going to
be more of a core part of the, rotation, which in,
theory If Walker keshler shooting threes And mamuo is shooting, threes,
right the pathway to Playing Jared vanderbilt is a little bit, easier,
right that is?
Speaker 2: True, yeah, yeah but still he's such a nothing offensively still?
Speaker 1: Correct, uh YOU'RE i had thought? About is the twenty
thirty two swap right enough to get? You AND i
don't really know what they're. Doing if we do A
Confusing teams, podcast they might be on. It for, me
you could get to money For Chris dunn And Derek Jones.
Junior if we're talking seconds and the swap and then
just matching money with The clippers to get those guys
to the. CLIP i mean The lakers should consider, IT
i would.
Speaker 2: Argue but, obviously, yeah, CLIP i think that's, Enough like
because look at look at how many guys went for
like nothing this year this. SUMMER i, mean two second
rounders got your rotation, Player like why wouldn't? They Jones
junior be who?
Speaker 1: Different, sorry which rotation player are you talking? About? Oh come,
on let me just Now i'm.
Speaker 2: Blanking, Uh but like several players went for small LIKE i,
say A stewart went for what two or three second?
Speaker 1: ROUNDERS i don't even think he went for. THAT i
think it was they traded three seconds To memphis That
memphis then traded back To. Detroit he was. Dumped it felt,
like you're, Right Aaron wiggins And Isaiah joe got.
Speaker 2: Full those two, Guys by the, way can we can
we talk about just briefly not it's not on the
Docket Aaron, Wiggins, like why did they pivot off that
deal that was so? Friendly it was like declining in
the did you want them? To ACTUALLY i have a question,
About oh we'll get.
Speaker 1: To them pivot off Lou dort. INSTEAD i. Disagree but,
anyway so the to my do you think The clippers
consider seconds and the twenty thirty two swap for the?
DUDE i, would honestly If i'm The, Lakers, yeah maybe
that's too. Nuclear Maybe i'm overestimating the value that. Swap.
Speaker 2: Uh But Derek jones junr is super. Good he would
fit into that team so. Well and he's got experience With.
Speaker 1: Luca yeah that's a good point. Too those two have great.
Speaker 2: Chemistry, Actually SO i, MEAN i DON'T i just you.
Speaker 1: Don't you're also GAINING i don't know if they want,
this but you are gaining some flexibility because both he
And Chris dunn are coming off the books after this.
Year so you're, smirking did you just did another name
pop up or?
Speaker 2: Something, No i'm smirking Because i'm thinking about the, Switch. Williams,
No but like when you really think about, it, right
because we're talking about defensive upside, here the offensive upside
like that we tried to talk about Before Derek jones
junior on that team as, Well like how do you guard?
That like because LIKE i, know he's only scoring like
ten points per, game but when you think about, it
he's become a bit of a reliable three. Pointer a
three point shooter he can finish place above the. Room
he works in, transition he's actually gotten better on the. Ball,
like if you get him in and you kind of
balance the defense, out there's a good chance The lakers
has to have the best offense in the entire damn.
Speaker 1: League abdam dash one five d As why would we
help The lakers as A clippers? Fan just because The
clippers are an asset accumulation. MODE i don't Think Derrek
Jones Junior Chris dunner there for the long. Term so
you have The clippers were trying to contend next, season,
sure but they're. NOT i think that's. Right that's been
made pretty clear by. Them where did you want to? Go,
Actually i'll just hijacket because you brought them ups. Already
let's go to THE. Okc how WILL okc get out
of the second? Apron, ultimately because they are it looked
like there was a pathway where it initially looked like,
okay sober and topitch might get them there after they
declined The Kenrich williams team, option but they bring Back
Kenrich williams for five million, bucks and so now they,
are as of right now into the second. Apron by,
LIKE i think seven or eight is the number that
we have them. AT i don't, know or, no it's
more than. That excuse, ME i don't. Like is it?
Thirteen what is lenn me go look?
Speaker 2: Like the secondary prim space their first seting point one above?
Speaker 1: Below however you want to say, it, yes so no
longer with The Kenrick williams, deal you no longer have
The sorber toepitch route doesn't get you out, alone and so,
granted AND i had briefly discussed. THIS i wanted to
go and do it a little bit more detail with.
You you seem very much on board With we'll just
trade Lou dort to get out of it versus Sorber
topitch and it would probably have to Be Jay will
Since i'm Asuming jared McCain And Bennett sturtz would be
off limits. LIMITS I i'm curious as to, watch like
you think he's that expendable to?
Speaker 2: THEM i, do LOOK i like Lu dort, fine but
they Got Alex caruso H Caseon wallace is getting better
and better and better every single. Year, defensively he's just that.
Good now they also add mar to the mix defensively
speaking Like i'm Just i'm you also need to clear
it a little bit more minutes For jared McCain so
you have more. Shooting because this, team after pivoting away
FROM i say At joe and And Aaron, wiggins they
do not have a lot of floor, spacing, Sir they
just do, Not SO i don't mind pivoting Off Blue.
Speaker 1: Dowart, oh this is interesting from really quick regulator in
the chat Last lakers, one how About Cam carr And
vanderbilt For Dylan. BROOKS i don't think that's. Enough, no,
no you?
Speaker 2: Swap do you Want Dylan brooks in?
Speaker 1: THERE i mean he would instantly be your second best
defensive player next To Walk look him A lakers uniform
going All Kobe. Lebron lebron's not there anymore, though so
it should be.
Speaker 2: Fine But i'm just saying he's. OFFENSIVELY i don't like.
IT i, mean He i'm. Fine i'm fine with your.
Speaker 1: Fine if You're i'd be fine with if you Get
Dylan brooks for what you have to give. UP i
think as The, Lakers i'd be okay with. It And.
Phoenix Does phoenix even have a first round pick in
twenty and thirty two to swap if they wanted? To,
yeah look so with twenty thirty, two swap would actually
work for. Them i'd probably do that as The.
Speaker 2: Lakers, yeah, Yeah i'm not sold.
Speaker 1: ANYWAY I i as The Thunder and maybe here's part
of it for me is that so far With Isaiah
joe And Andrew, wiggins you could look at those moves
and say those guys were never going to have a
prominent role. Here the organization didn't do them as, solid
but you moved on from players that they could have
a bigger, role and when you look at how much
they were playing in THE nba, finals those were not key.
Parts excuse, me conference, finals those were not key parts
of the. Rotation with that being, said moving Lou dort
feels like it would be this cultural shock And i'd
be curious to how the players would respond to that
because they know the deal with the second. Apron but
it does create this feeling of JUST i think we
even saw this a little bit with The. Knicks there
was that rumor that they were interested In Eves mesi and,
immediately which The knicks never. Do they're almost immediately there's
this report for me In bagley that says they're happy
with their, roster not looking to make any. Changes to,
ME i read that as you already Let Mitchell robinson
walk purely over financial. Reasons you're trying to at least
there is going to be that feeling inside the locker,
room how expended among people who aren't Jaylem brunson and
probably O Jan andobi had to imagine how long until
money forces us out the, door until until we break?
Up and with, McBride going into a contract year that
would be part of. It it's sort of similar but
to a greater extent With, dort who's the longest tenured
thunder player and still Has LIKE i just don't think
the defensive workload he shoulders receives enough, appreciation AND i
get the offensive. Concerns it's he's not he doesn't run
hot and cold so much as there's some seasons where
he makes his threes and doesn't have these detrimental decisions on,
drives and then there's some seasons where he doesn't make
his threes and you see more of the detrimental. Decisions
i'm just if if they were going to just move
him to get out of the second, APRON i feel
as if it would have been done, already and So
i'm more inclined to think they go The sorber topicch
maybe Even Jay will route, then because now you Have
Mara holmgrin And hartenstein as Your. Biggs sorber is not
gonna is barely gonna. Play the path to topic getting
minutes is non existent at this, point now That jared
McCain is in the. Building, Uh Jay will would be
the one where you could also ark it was in
that kind of a culture. Shock he's in every postgame.
INTERVIEW i don't, know BUT i do feel as if
Lou dort was going to be collateral, damage that he
would have been collateral damage by.
Speaker 2: Now then the next player to pivot onto instead of
The Topich sorber, Route Alex, Caruso.
Speaker 1: WHY i just why are you you're trading?
Speaker 2: Him but why are you so high on keeping sober and?
Speaker 1: TOPIC i? Guess is my? Point? Well cost?
Speaker 2: Control, like all, right fair, enough right, now we're having
a discussion about getting under the second apron if it
was up to, Us, like we're having a discussion about
how an owner saves, money frank.
Speaker 1: They do have the option of paying, you are, correct
that's right.
Speaker 2: Point so so like that's my first priority here is
just pay up and shut, Up. Frankly but if you're
talking about trying to save, money, obviously if you want
to be smart about, it you keep guys that are
cost controlled and you ship out guys who are expensive
run for two more, YEARS i.
Speaker 1: E Alex.
Speaker 2: Caruso so that's my my my logical take on, it
BECAUSE i think With topitch And sorber you have more
control moving. Forward but let's just be real about. This
this entire topic right here that we're discussion right now
is ridiculous because it is supposed to be, this this
team that is entering into an era where they can
win multiple championships and they can become sort of like
the twenty tens version of The, Bulls lakers, whatever and
now they're penny crunching and penny pinching to get out of.
It come, ON i, MEAN i mean the other the
day this, week they shipped out two of their best
shooters for, nothing for, Nothing LIKE i just think this
is such a ridiculous way to go about. It so
if they want to save, money at least be fucking
efficient and then just ship Out Alex, GRUSSO i.
Speaker 1: GUESS i, MEAN i understand what you're, saying BUT i
also The this is WHY i do think the owners
won the LAST cba agream is it's created where someone
even like me is saying they're not going to pay
half a billion dollars to keep this roster together because
it's not just THERE'S i think the team building restrictions
are worse than the, money like that should be more
of a. Fear but in The thunder's, case at one
point they were a half a billion dollar. Roster they're not.
ANYMORE i think with the taxes and, stuff they're at
what three point thirty something now around. There but if,
historically if you go back and look at how like
if this was the idea of the Second, APRON i
think is given owners a reason to cop out and
just never. Spend and then it's also was out of
fear of what if teams just continue to spend and
spend when they get ahold of these. Guys historically, speaking
how much further above the salary cap line is the Second,
Apron it's like fifty something million, dollars, right it's two twenty,
one and the cap is around one point sixty. Five
go back and find the number of teams that were
spending like fifty plus million. Dollars, yeah like it wasn't,
happening and so you could you were fighting a boogeyman to,
Me and now it created this culture of we're looking
at a salary cap and other people have now pointing this.
Out the projected growth is now, underserved is like underserved
relative to those initial, forecasts and so you're seeing these.
Deals we're gonna see more of them like the Contract
Donovan mitchell just, signed the Contract yiannis will, sign or
the one That Yo kiuill eventually, Sign they're gonna be
worth more than thirty five percent of the cap at
the rate of the current, growth and so that's, problematic
AND i think it's that's why that's, why, okay see
is they were never gonna pay that type of tax bill,
anyway even if the penalties weren't as, Punitive but the
league made it so harsh from so many different perspectives
to go into the second apron right that it's A
it's given teams an excuse to sell to fans that
now have to think of players in these. Terms to your,
point getting rid of Lou dort might have, BEEN i,
guess is the cleanest. WAY i don't know if it's
if you're looking at him Or. Caruso objectively, SPEAKING i
would say it's not the best course to fielding the
best version of this team next year or the season,
after BECAUSE i don't think even if you trade Lou,
dort you're not suddenly opening the runway For thomas Serber Nicola.
Topicch you're not even Expanding Jay will's, role who's still
on the. Roster i'm very curious to see this is
all to say how they get out of the Second.
APRON i know people have said that they might wait
until the middle of the. SEASON i, mean thirteen plus
million dollars is tough to shed mid. Season maybe with
maybe with TPEs out, there it gets a little bit,
easier or for teams want to take he doesn't fit
into the mid, level so that won't any, work but
with tps it gets a little bit. EASIER i would
be shocked, though to say this if they stay, In
like if we are talking this time next year and
they've just paid a Second apron luxury tax, bill that
will absolutely shock.
Speaker 2: Me, YEAH i will see how they go about. THIS
i just think generally, speaking that if you won a,
championship and if you have any aspirations to win, another
you pay up because, again that money is going to
come back again and. Again because LIKE i keep bringing
this up when it comes to money the bulls back
in the, day like how many millions have they made
just off having these continuous nights of let's celebrate the
ninety two, team let's celebrate the ninety three, Team let's do,
this let's do, that let's do this type of night
and people are just flocking in to buy all this
crap that they're. SELLING i just think it's an. Investment
if you win multiple, CHAMPIONSHIPS i would.
Speaker 1: AGREE i do wonder if and this isn't pertaining to
the thunder, specifically but the rise of kind of private
equity ownership stakes or guys with those or people with those.
BACKGROUNDS i have, thought and this is A jaden. THOUGHT
i hope it doesn't come to. It if teams are
really run like a, business are there scenarios in which
it makes more sense from a profit perspective to not
win the championships as long as you're keeping your roster
expenses in, Place because how much is are those extra games? Worth?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Right, yeah that's pretty. Good that was JUST i DON'T
i have not thought that's a that's not even a
half big. Thought so it's something that occurred to, me
which kind of sucks that that would even like be
like like in the barrels of my, Brain, right where
do you want to go? Next at your you know?
What you get two in a. Row BECAUSE i hijacked this, one,
well SO i.
Speaker 2: Was actually trying to do a sequay there because uh,
bulls BECAUSE i, mean.
Speaker 1: Look i'm curious to see what what tenor this because
when you sent it to, ME i was, LIKE i
wonder what tenor this question is actually going to? Strike all?
Right all? Right so they basically so or.
Speaker 2: Not basically they Got Nick claxon And Norman powell without
relinquishing any assets because they traded For, claxton got him
in for free in a trade they Signed, powell meaning
they did not give up any sort of draft equity or.
Anything AND i have to assume because if it's not the,
plan it's a bad. Plan uh, oh thank you for.
That i'm actually not trying to dunk on them for.
One but if because if they follow suit on, this
if they, say all, right we're gonna flip plax then
we're gonna Flip powell like at a trade that at
the trade, deadline and we're actually gonna get like draft
equity from them without having relinquish any in the first.
Place chef's. Kiss that's because that would be good. Business
that would be a way to build up your your
draft equity war. Chest that would be a good way
to just accumulate assets that you can spend later. On
SO i am extremely intrigued to see what is going
to happen With Nick lax And Norman, Powell like what
a eight months from?
Speaker 1: Now, RIGHT i will, SAY i see a lot of
they could just Flip Norman powell for a first round
pick floating around out? There have? It Has Norman power
ever met a first round pick in a trade? Before
and that's that's a fair.
Speaker 2: QUESTION i, LIKE i don't know if it's going to
be a First perhaps they get a ton of, seconds
and like apparently seconds can get.
Speaker 1: YOU i say this To.
Speaker 2: Ward so my point is they could also you, know
get younger guys in there by trading the contract for.
Something my entire, point it's not just about the draft.
Picks it's just about can you get long, term high
quality assets for those two, contracts, RIGHT i, mean that's
where we, are and if you can job well done
frankly From bryce And, graham if he can do, this
BECAUSE i do think it's smart to get quality in
for free as long as you know how to leverage.
It and like we knew That ak wouldn't be able
to because he was just too. SORRY i, mean, look
there's a reason he was. Fired like he was bad
at this. Job come, On.
Speaker 1: I'm not disagreeing with you ON ak AND i don't
have a problem with This bulls off. SEASON i LIKE
i Like Nicholas claxton more than, most and The Norman
powell deal is absolutely. FINE i could we get into
would you rather Have Norman powell at twenty plus million
Or Amfrey simon's at six might be an interesting, Question but,
SAME i don't know that this offseason augurs anything other than.
RESTRAINTS i don't know that it was a stroke of.
Brilliance by the, way even the draft pick was made
kind of easy for them With Caleb, Wilson like just
Take Caleb. WILSON i like the, Idea like if Getting
Nick claxton is, okay So Caleb, Wilson Nick, claxton modest
bouzellis you just have a, Butt like you have a
bunch of rangy guys now that you can use on
the defensive. End But i'm, YEAH i don't. Know Dalleen,
SWAYNE i love that draft pick as.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, SAME i just.
Speaker 1: DON'T i GUESS i. DON'T i don't know what to
read into The bulls off. Season it feels like one
of restraint and the fact that we're celebrating it so,
much not to show, denigrated but, well the fact THAT i,
guess the fact that it's notable or could be, CELEBRATED
i think speaks to how low the bar has become
for this, franchise.
Speaker 2: Right and that's that is WHY i, asked like, bulls
like where are we? Here BECAUSE i do think it
would be a smart play to do the things THAT
i outlined before by pivoting Off Claxton powell for, Assets
but at the same, time we're at that point where
we don't even know if that's going to, materialize, Right
like you can see here and talk about it all day.
Long like they still Have Josh gideon on the, roster
WHICH i thought was an interesting. DECISION i probably would
have pivoted off, him but it is what it. IS
i think they're going to give him a chance under
a new coaching staff and under a brand new. Reshime and,
look perhaps he's the guy that They.
Speaker 1: What is the rush to trade him just because they're
now the lottery is now firmly in The bulls' wheelhouse
where The bulls have been doing pre bryce And graham
makes a ton of sense to continue doing like.
Speaker 2: Unintentionally so, yeah, yeah, no you're, right and it's a fair,
Point like you can, wait if he has a brilliant,
season you can flip in that the deadline for it's,
on BECAUSE i still don't think that a team With
josh giddeyon and handling the ball to the extent that
he does is going to go. Anywhere like but if
another team you, know bites and takes the, bait, fine, Fine.
Speaker 1: SO i guess the question is do you feel, better,
worse or the same about their direction based on what
you've seen so far this? Offseason?
Speaker 2: Better, better better in the sense that they understand value
to a better extent THAN ak does or DID I
i because, Again, Glaxton, powell those are not bad. Acquisitions,
like even if this team is hell bent on being
a playing team a year and a year out because of,
ownership at least you got great freaking value out Of
claxton And powell contractually.
Speaker 1: Speaking do you think it would have, WELL i think
what you could, argue would it have been a better
use of cap, space whether It's claxton Or powell to
have messed with some of the restricted free agent offer.
Sheets tarson was sitting right there for less than a
mid level. Apparently, yeah they could have made things really
uncomfortable For Peyton. Watson and by the, Way i'm. SURPRISED
i thought The clippers were gonna do. IT i thought
they were the team that was going to act with
cap space when we were looking at how their off
season was. Unfolding and now they Gave ruy part of
the mL. E so that's clearly not going to. Happen
But i'm just surprised no one made it uncomfortable For
denvery yet. Yet but there's really only one option to
do so right.
Speaker 2: NOW i thought The bulls would be the primary team
For Peyton. WATSON i thought. SO i thought he was
the guy to go for because it felt like he
also fit Into bryce And kram's ideology of, length that
The lettuceism's size and all. That SO i was very
surprised they didn't go that. Route and, yes if you're putting, that,
like ask the two options they, had like Sign Norman
powell or gra After Peyton. Watson you're absolutely Right Peyton,
watson you, know by a freaking. Mile if you ask, me,
so that is definitely.
Speaker 1: Interesting, WELL i to Be i'm to undermine my own,
point there's a chance you just don't Get Peyton watson
because The nuggets. Match i'm just wondering if it would
have been a better use of cap space to do
something along by the, WAY i Think Norman powell they
kind of just needed because they needed a, shooter a
shooter and a driver on this. Roster, yes so that
Deal i'm totally fine. With, also if that's all costs
to Keep Anthony, SIMONS i don't know if he just
wanted to play for a better. TEAM i have questions
about why he CHOSE i think great fit for The.
SIXERS i don't really Understand Anthony simons's point of view from.
It IT'S i guess it's more so The clackston, stuff
but even The powell, THING i THINK i would have
preferred to have been more aggressive on the open market
first and then. Revisited you, know was The Nicholas claxton
deal going? ANYWHERE i know that like it's being folded
into as part of a larger. Transaction, sure all, right
if you don't Have Nick, claxton then you don't Have Nick,
claxton right, Right so that would BE i Think i'm
about the same where it's'm open minded as the befront office,
regime and the restraint IS i suppose. Refreshing would you
want to talk about?
Speaker 2: Next, so, uh let's see where it. Was, Oh, Charlotte,
charlotte we need to talk About.
Speaker 1: Charlotte.
Speaker 2: Look, look you know HOW i felt About. LaMelo i
still feel the same way About. LaMelo you know HOW
i felt About Miles, bridges still feel that way About Miles.
Speaker 1: Prichious both of them are.
Speaker 2: Gone they re Sign Kobe, white who's like a green
flag type of.
Speaker 1: Player for, me.
Speaker 2: This is going to give them more chance to Get Kanka.
Nipple and by the, Way Hans Christian, anderson come, on come,
on that's just for A. Dane that's just. BEAUTIFUL i
need that to get out. There Like John holding here
made that up and that's just. Perfect so like getting
two quality rookies in. There JUST i, mean so you're
A steinbach. Guy, Yeah, look let the entire nation in,
rebounding Like dirky's was basically a part of, his like
his mentorship, Circle like what are we doing? HERE i
know he's only shot like thirty four percent room. Three
that can be. TAUGHT i thought he was far more
physical inside THAN i anticipated. That, yeah, Yeah i'm A steinbeck.
Guy And anderson like with the shooting. Capabilities like Basically
white moved Into lamello's role And anderson moved Into Gooby white's.
ROLE i think that's. Interesting like To John salon will
have that this is his third season coming, IN i
just think this team could surprise, us surprise us in what? Positively,
NO i, know but what is what would a surprise
look like for this?
Speaker 1: Team top? Six oh, yeah, no there's No i'll no really, Wow,
YEAH i can't get.
Speaker 2: No, No, No i'm Not i'm not sitting here saying lock it.
In i'm Saying i'm not. Close LIKE i would have
closed the door on that if they hadn't made those two.
Moves now that they have made those two, moves.
Speaker 1: You, Would i'm, sorry you would have closed the door
on them making the tops had they kept the mellow
and And Miles, Bridges, YES I Miles bridges think it's
just he's like looking at just. BASKETBALL i think he's
one of the biggest empty calories. Guys, Exactly except that's
kind of the Point i'm. Making The mellow was there's
statistical proof that he was an offensive boom for a
team that was in the top five of offense and
defense was better with him on the floor for six
And wells last, Year so keeping lamellow would have made
it less likely that they were in the top sixth.
Speaker 2: Lead, yeah BECAUSE i still think that this takes them
of a. Level, Yes i'm how how does? OH I because,
frankly you cannot trust the, defense you cannot trust the decision.
Making you can also not trust the fact that he
will embrace being lower on The Totem, bowl because, again
he is all over the place in terms of like
lacking of leadership. QUALITIES i just think this is one
that the best the best EXAMPLE i have is this
feels like When sacramento now going way, back Traded Jason
williams From Mike baby basically, saying, look we need someone
who's far more disciplined to come in and actually play
within the scheme of the, offense to come in and
do something. RIGHT i Think Cope white in, particular is
that version instead Of, LaMelo Like LaMelo is far more.
Talented who's on this roster right?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, absolutely that's a fair, question because hell IF
i know, that Could Cob white could be Random miller
for ALL i care, like.
Speaker 1: Why are you feeling better? About is the? Defense you
don't want to get any better than last season.
Speaker 2: BECAUSE i didn't necessarily trust. IT i thought when they
hit that mark like that was a, long big sample.
SIZE i. Concede i'm not saying necessarily it's just the.
Defense i'm saying the offensive. Cohesion i'm thinking the team wide.
CHEMISTRY i think they're gonna have bigger buy. IN i
am a fan of what they, did AND i think
this lifts them off long.
Speaker 1: Term THEY i think there's just gonna be division In
LaMelo ranks as to the impact it has On. CHARLOTTE
i THINK i understand that they're taking a longer view,
Here SO i understand that even IF i wouldn't have
made the, Trade i'm open to the idea Of charlotte
being better relative to where expectations are right now after those.
Moves to, me the argument that they're just gonna be
a playoff team because they got rid Of LaMelo immediate
like Immediate, No, obviously obviously you elevate other.
Speaker 2: Players that that's the main selling, point, Right it's not
just it's not additioned by subtraction. Entirely it's also the
fact that you get players who are more disciplined to
ump their their volume, up their their, usage trade up their.
MINUTES i just this is all. Right you know WHAT
i fucking hate going. Here this is becoming a Good vibes.
Team like you know, ME i don't usually go into
The vibes. Thing this is What this is Where i'm
making an exception because this feels like a team that
got rid of two guys where The vibes can occasionally
go like this.
Speaker 1: And that's not.
Speaker 2: Great now they have a baseline to go out. Of
this is a likable. Team this is something that is
far easier to get. Behind this is a team that
seems to have good guys now mostly layered throughout the entire.
Roster AND i think that fucking.
Speaker 1: MATTERS i The Miles bridge, STUFF i just can't argue
and won't argue. Again, WELL i don't Think LaMelo to,
ME i never got the sense he was a Bad
vibes guy If Charles lee disliked. Him BUT i if
this team is top LIKE i, DON'T i think their
ceiling is maybe. NINTH i GUESS i just don't trust
because who is gonna who do we? Trust to? Pop
is That, okay, yeah elevate guys into bigger. ROLES i
do think we're underestimating how much of the offense was
funneled To Brandon miller last, year And LaMelo did work within.
That BUT i don't know who we're just trusting as
a as a playmaker, HERE i would have made The miles,
Deal Miles bridges, deal regardless of gim me grace and
increase the. Depth, yeah and Get Miles bridges off the.
Team but WHAT i don't Like Kobe, White Brandon, miller
And Conk. NIPPLE i guess they're Like Christian. ANDERSON i
don't know how MUCH i trust those guys to be
able to prop. Up we don't have the sample to
be fair of what does it look like When Kobe,
White Brandon, miller and kN Kan niple we are playing Without.
LaMelo that sample is just so. SMALL i think you're
banking on even looking at like, WHO i just don't
know who the guy THAT i would expect to pop
as a driver of offense for everybody. ELSE i Guess
nipple Or miller's the. Pick or unless you think That
Christian anderson comes in and is just ready.
Speaker 2: SEE i understand, that AND i think that is a
fair counterpoint in terms of the lack of. Playmaking WHAT
i think there is a cohesion element in, This like
we've seen teams in the past that doesn't have that
hasn't had necessarily like a main guy just be efficient either.
Way it's, LIKE i Like Kobe white is not a bad,
playmaker kan K nipple is not a bad. Playmaker, like
it's just you're not. Elite AND i will Give lamlo
that like in terms of the court, vision major major
loss in that, department, Absolutely but none of these guys
are throwing the ball around willy.
Speaker 1: Nilly.
Speaker 2: Like they're very competent players who understand their. Boundaries they
understand where they're their own limitations are, at so they'll
play within that, SCHEME i, mean with within that frame
As and another point to this is they got nasried In,
Grayceon Allen royce. O'Neil a lot of these guys will
take long range shots and a lot of this will
be you, know driving, kick which is necessarily the most,
difficult like highest green form of playmaking out.
Speaker 1: There SO i just trust that this.
Speaker 2: Team is going to be obviously very perimeter, oriented and
that means a lot of three point.
Speaker 1: Shots you can get the ball to. Shooters let's go
to The Utah. Jazz do they need another Big they
Have Jackson hayes and use Of. Nurkic Kyle philipowski is
still there. Too in the end that The Walker kessler
deal grant AND i don't know where if you want
to talk about that more the. TRADE i really wanted
to See Walker kessler play next To Jaron Jackson junior
And lowry Market. In BUT i do think the amount
The lakers gave up from a jazz's, perspective given how
Unhappy Walker kessler seemed with not getting an, EXTENSION i
don't know that that's a Trade utah could have reasonably
turned down.
Speaker 2: Right, No, no they got so much and nurkis, Stare
Jackson hayes is there like they're trying to cobble together
a solid center.
Speaker 1: Rotation all of. THAT i get.
Speaker 2: It kessler would have, been you, know the diamond to
this current iteration of The, jazz like that's just the
way it. Is and defensively, speaking of, course but like
when you're offered, that and they were also balking at
the financial, NUMBERS i think it's entirely fair to just
take it because, like how many picks does team have right?
Speaker 1: Now are? They are they not? Loaded? There flushing? Again,
YEAH i mean they gave up some of The Jaron
Jackson junior train and then made it back tenfold from
The Walker kessler sign and.
Speaker 2: Train, yeah, exactly which means in many ways you Got
Jaron Jackson junior for.
Speaker 1: FREE i, MEAN i mean you, can you can choose
to look at it that, way but you still Lost
Walker kessler as part of all that you have D
i was very much kidding to be pick neutral basically
after the, fact though, impressive right, Right.
Speaker 2: So if you want another big, man do you want
that to be a center or like an ad child?
Speaker 1: Four, well that's that's WHAT i was going to ask,
you BECAUSE i think you could make the case and
say just paper over the center minutes you Have nurkic
And Jackson, hayes and then your closing lineup might have
always been we Want Jaron Jackson junior at the. Five
The Memphis grizzlies had been about league average or worse
defensively with him at the five since twenty twenty twenty twenty.
Three they've also seldom been. HEALTHY i will, say, THOUGH
i think Putting jackson at the five too often takes
him out of the role he's best suited to. Play
AND i also think that it's probably riskier unless you
think you have enough on ball defensive juice in front of,
him which as of right, NOW i MEAN i Like Cody,
williams like his defense has probably ticked. UP i think
Case bailey's gonna be a good. Defender Darren peterson should be,
fine but as a right, NOW i don't know that
you have enough. There so that's Why i'm wondering if
it behooves them to try and get someone who is
better than it doesn't need to be someone you invest
a ton of equity. In but it's oh better Than Jackson,
hayes even like better than use Of nurkic, You oh
so they should just sign? You? Right sign? Me is
being better than Jack.
Speaker 2: JACKSON i Think Jackson hayes is full of empty. CALORIES
i don't like him as a. Player that was a.
JOKE i was kidding.
Speaker 1: That he seems like he's got some questionable off court stuff.
Too so oh, YEAH i think that's too. Right that
doesn't help. There that does SO a name THAT i
had thought, OF i don't know what it cost to get,
them but we're actually this is a segue from the
team we just talked. About in The. Hornets they Have,
steinbach they have Calk, brenner they have Nase. Red two
of those guys are probably best suited at the four
and read In. Steinbach but if they're taking the longer,
View Mosa diabathe is gonna be a free agent next. Summer.
Hmmm him on The jazz and now they would have
to worry about his free, agency but he's not gonna
cost anywhere Near Walker. KESSLER i think he would make
a lot of sense on a lot of, teams but
In utah, specifically it's the salary STRUCTURE i, think even
after this year not the. Best like it's just not
on the level Of Walker kessler, defensively but he's probably
you trust him in space. More and THEN i think
If Jaron Jackson junior is in front of him and
you have bigger you're always gonna also have Either Lowry
markin Or Ace bailey around him just that. SIZE i
think that would be the type of MOVE i would
like to see them go out and make to feel
better BECAUSE i was. READY i made this joke On Blue.
SKY i was ready to pencil in The jazz for
fifty plus victories before The Walker kessler. Trade THEN i
was Watching Darren Peterson's Summer league debut AND i, Said
i'm still excited to pencil in the jazzer more than,
Said i'm not actually sure If i'm there. YET i
haven't sat down and done, it BUT i want to.
See i'd like to see a better five on the
who's not triple j on this? Roster and they clearly
have the assets to go get. THEM i guess my
question to you, was is there an incentive to doing that?
Now or is this more of a, well let's just
wait and see way it happens waiting at the.
Speaker 2: Bumble, yeah BUT i, mean, LOOK i will say your
idea Of abase, yeah, look Look CHANDLER sv threat. Scene
he would be right to do so because he's. Awesome
diabase is. AWESOME i love.
Speaker 1: Him that does meaned to leave The hornets, though? Right? No,
no no? No what was he? Like best friends With LaMelo?
Too maybe they Isolated Musa. Diabat Maybe i'm imagining, that
but maybe they ended up just isolating Isolating Musa diabate
with that.
Speaker 2: Trade ALL i know is That Mussat diabase Locked wemp
the f up over the in the regular season for one,
game like completely annihilated. Him you don't do that if
you are not extremely potent of a defensive.
Speaker 1: Player, YEAH i mean he but that that would be
the type of. MOVE i, MEAN i Had kita on the,
list but he just got his, extension so he'd be off.
It if you were waiting until mid. Season this probably
cost you a ton of pick. Equity but let's just
say The hawks and goes off the rails And Yuko
congo's available marketing Triple Jared Jackson junior and On Yukko.
Congu that's not you don't have the biggest five man
like the six ten. Center, Yeah Jared Jackson, junior same
thing that would. Work, yeah, YEAH i don't think you.
Should that's not to be fair, Though that's probably not
where you should be allocating your your trade. ASSETS i
would be fun as hell to, watch but it was
on that it was a even. Look If charlotte wants
to get rid Of Ryan, KALKBRENNER i think he's probably
better Than Jackson hayes at this point. Already, yeah as
a standstill rim. Protector he's just he's just gonna be.
Speaker 2: Bigger and that's WHY i think Ultimately nourki is just
gonna play It son because you you're gonna need the.
REBOUNDING i mean With kessler out like you were always
on my ass for, saying oh the rebounding and the
rebounding like With jackson ju and your marketing with No
kessler in there.
Speaker 1: To rebound the shit That the.
Speaker 2: THING i take exception too IS i don't know why
you Think Larry markinen is a terrible. Rebounder, no, no,
No i'm saying he's. Not like he's not an elite
rebounder nor And Jackson hay or sorry Not. Jackson Jaron
Jackson junior is out right. Bad so like the combination
of that frontline is just, worrisome, Right like you need
to have someone in there who just goes get you
a board Like marketnen as well has had issues on
the glass, Before like we can't.
Speaker 1: He's not your he's not the most, physical but he's
with the exceptional last season When Walker kessler didn't, play
so that's per. Fair but he's rated as eighty six
percentile on defensive rebounding ninety, fourth ninetieth the past two
seasons In, Utah i've not Been banner rebounding seasons for
him on the defensive glass.
Speaker 2: Though you are right, Right So i'm just, saying, like
that's the, Thing but, yet could they use another big?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Like BUT i, like are there? Minutes because if
they're gonna Play, nurkic which they will because they just
paid him twenty one, million and they're gonna Play Jaron Jackson,
junior they're gonna Play Lauri, MARKTON i assume they're gonna
Play Kyle philbhowski as. Well like where it's gonna come?
Speaker 1: From, well, again my thought, Was i'm Playing diabaatee over
someone like. Him i'm playing him over all the, bigs
Not Jared, jackson, you but all the standard options that
they have right. Now so that wasn't that's to. Me
the minutes will, Be, oh when Is Jackson hayes gonna?
Play it would be the question That i'd be asking, Sudden,
yeah that makes, sense makes. SENSE i do you understand
your point of why? Not just that at this point
they do seem like they're and wait and see, Mode
BUT I i was so stuck on Seeing Walker, Kesla
Larry market And Jared Jackson junior play together THAT i
want someone else at the five other Than Usuf nurkic Or.
Jackson ray's JUST i feel Like i'm, oded you know
WHAT i? Mean, yeah, NO i hear, YOU i hear.
You where do you want to go?
Speaker 2: Next SO i only have one more thing on the,
list and that is what even are The Washington? Wizards
what are they at this? Point Like davis is in?
There they traded For DeAndre, Aiden they Signed Tree young
to a contract that it was just way too rich
for my, blood way too. Rich you AND i were
talking about like thirty five forty million a. Year then
he signed for what fifty?
Speaker 1: Three he also got a trade kicker at a player, option.
Speaker 2: RIGHT I i just don't know what this team. Is
and that's that's not necessarily a bad thing because they
haven't pivot away from the young, guys, Right like Du
bonsa is, there and like Stars, Thereabali Trey, JOHNSON i,
mean Obviously Cam.
Speaker 1: Wiche george Will, Riley.
Speaker 2: Orge, Yeah Tristan, vucevic Justin, champagne like they they have
guys there and and by the, Way Julian reese and
of the deceason on a high, note like they have good,
talent they have good, Players BUT i, mean at the
end of the, DAY i just don't see the cohesion,
here like what are they trying to? Win?
Speaker 1: Now are they trying to be?
Speaker 2: Competitive like as of twenty twenty, six twenty twenty, seven
are they looking?
Speaker 1: Ahead like what are? We what are we doing? HERE
i think there's one lottery for so that goes WITHOUT
i think that we can can that go without saying
from now? On or DO i constantly need to qualify?
That but there clearly WAS i think when we saw
The Trey young And Anthony davis, trades as opportunistic AS
i thought they were at the, time there was clearly
a mandate there from the good we need to get.
BETTER i don't know how good they can they can.
BE i think that the center, rotation if it's the
big man rotation With Saar davis And, ayton that's actually
in a pretty good, space Even Tristian vuksovich being. There
BUT i also have questions still about this team's floor.
Spacing and then just With Trey, young he's a good,
player the three point efficiency has been for him in
the gutter for a couple of years, now AND i
think we've still yet to see can he play different
styles in a larger ecosystem where he isn't the sole,
Focus AND i think THAT'S i think it's important because
of the other guys on this roster in, general whether To, Keijan,
George Trey, johnson BUT i think it's most important because
Now ajdabants is here and he has never ranked more
for his. Career he has never ranked lower than fourth
in the league in the percentage of his offensive time
spent on the, ball and the only time he didn't
rank in the top four was last year when he ranked,
Seventh and so we just haven't seen. It that's my big,
question which is WHY i was just flabbergasted by that.
Contract you just acquired him in a salary dump they.
Have So i'll say, THIS i think it's more likely
if both teams are equally, HEALTHY i think it's more
likely The wizards are in the top six next year Than.
CHARLOTTE i Think charlotte may have the more coherent long
term plan in, place but The wizards are just teaming
with so much individual, talent and it's not even ill fitting.
Talent they're like a real deep. TEAM i think it's
just you need a couple things to pop in the
sense of who's going to become the better? Shooter and
Can Trey young play? Different the health stuff with ad that's,
Obvious but Can Alex Sar we've seen him hit a
higher clip of his. Threes can he do that for
an entire? Season what does can Blow kulabali hit more
of his? Threes? Right Does Keishaw george look? Like is
more of a secondary option when when he's? Healthy what
does agent de BoNT to look like right out of the?
Gate what type of license is he going to? Have
what type of agency is he going to have on the? OFFENSE,
YEP i don't know what The wizards. Are i'm, intrigued,
confused but intrigued.
Speaker 2: Exactly and that's WHERE i am, Too LIKE i want
to be optimistic about. This i'm going to be optimistic
about this because, again it seems like.
Speaker 1: They have the one foot in the.
Speaker 2: Wind now they have the one the other foot in in, like,
like let's straight try to win later or develop guys
or whatever you want to frame. It Ass like we've
seen it. Before boston tried to do the same. Thing
didn't quite, Work but at least this makes a little
bit more sense because you still don't have like the
elite floor like floor, leading general court, vision ish guard
outside Of Trey, young within The young, frame within The
young core. Framework so, like perhaps this just. Works Like
I'm i'm not ruling that, out BUT I i have.
Questions is pretty much Where i'm landing on. This what
do you think you're Running you're coaching The.
Speaker 1: Wizards well that's the other thing here THAT'S i don't
know if it's, confusing But i'm just clocking. It so
you Elevate David vanderpool to the front, office and he
was on the front office track previously in twenty, thirteen
so that's but now you Have Patrick ewing And Steve
clifford there as, assistants and you do have a new
lead not a new lead assistant to be promoted from
within on the lead. Assistant i'm just just, watching like
a lot of, people Of Brian keith as the coach
that's going to be the next to. GO i don't
know if The wizards are so urgent it'd be a
move made mid. Season but that's another thing that's going
on with this. Team what is, It but your, coach
You're Brian. Keith what's your best without seeing it in?
Action what is your default five man? Lineup my? Default all?
Right trey DO i? Go keishean Over Trey?
Speaker 2: JOHNSTON i THINK i? Do, yeah, YEAH i. DO i,
Agree and.
Speaker 1: And trey on the court together is gonna would be
a defensive. Catastrophe you're.
Speaker 2: Right and it's a little bit small, too and And
keishawan is just so much. Bigger, Yeah Trey. Keishawan and
then at the, THREE i could Just. Debonsa It's debonsa
and then it then we have the whole conundrum who's
the four because Both sar And davis wants to be
four men instead of.
Speaker 1: Centers BUT i got to SEE i haven't seen really.
Speaker 2: Was part of like the pre draft process as, well
like he wanted to play the.
Speaker 1: FOUR i don't know what it is with These tell,
them you know, what don't tell The Tell Anthony davis
that he's The forum and playing next To starr and
Tell sar that he's The forum playing, right and just
they the, difference just.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: Yeah SO i think that is.
Speaker 2: My my preferred closing, lineup which is wild because then
you actually have a pretty good, bench like you have
a bench Of bill and Like Trey.
Speaker 1: Johnson that's not.
Speaker 2: Bad DeAndre aiden can Whit moore justin, Him edny can Wit. More, yeah,
YEAH i MEAN i don't necessarily hate this. TEAM i
just try to figure out what the hell they.
Speaker 1: ARE i can already feel. It i'm probably smashing there.
Over this is going to come back to MY i
can already feel it in my. Bones all. Right SO
i have a couple of. Things let me pick one
to do before we get into just The Jaylen brown. Stuff,
okay let's do this ONE moret is A Denver nuggets
salary dump. Coming we saw the report from the steinline
that they're not necessarily they're they're willing to Match Peyton
watson if he gets an offer sheet without making a
salary dump of any. Kind paint me every shade of
skep on. That as of right, NOW i think they
have about two million dollars in room beneath the second,
apron and that's assuming they just wave you want To,
salentunis SO i don't even have his full salary pencils in.
There this team is up against the repeater TAX i
Don't i'm gonna be pretty. Shocked that's the Word i've
used a lot during this particular. Episode there's no way
they're going into the second apron, Right they just got
bounced in the first. Round if they wouldn't do it,
previously why are you doing it?
Speaker 2: Now they Won't and it's a shame BECAUSE i think about.
This you have Prime Nikola jokic one of the best, players.
Speaker 1: Do You that's my other? Question but carry, On, no,
well that is far more.
Speaker 2: INTERESTING i don't want to talk about the goddamn salary
cap if you have a bigger question About.
Speaker 1: Jokic do you Believe Nikola jokic's extension stance where the
latest is that he wants he prefers to just wait
and sign a five Year oh, no, no, NO i don't believe.
Speaker 2: That all, Right, no, no No's BUT i was just,
saying he's like in this prime and that's why they
should go all.
Speaker 1: In you said the question is for how much? Longer
how much longer did they? Have that's a fair.
Speaker 2: Question, no BECAUSE i think HE'S i think he's looking
at this and GOING i have questions.
Speaker 1: He should and by the, WAY i, THOUGHT i actually
hope he's lying with his. Explanation he's so. SMART i
have to believe he, is because you know, what if
you were so concerned about actually maximizing your, payday you
probably would have extended last year and then extended again
in three years when you were eligible to do, it
rather than waiting for, like SO i can get the
extra year of guaranteed money locked in. Now So i'm
hoping that this is his. WAY i applauded it WHEN
i saw the report that he was gonna wait on the. Extension, initially,
good put some. Press they've you've been the one of
the lowest maintenance superstars in the, league like right up
there With, steph and it's time to, like let's apply
some pressure to this front. Office i'm not buying the
explanation that we're seeing from him. Now financially you can
game it out to, where, yeah locking in the extra
year in theory for him could make. Sense i'm just
not buying it because if you were that concerned about,
it you would have extended already and then you would
have extended again in three. Years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no you're you're. Right so the question is where
where does his eyes? Linger because his best friend just
had a lot of help In Los angeles and they've
been locked, up, LIKE i don't know if there are
any streight chips there that makes sense in terms of they.
Speaker 1: Have they have zero chance of getting him, now no
cap space next, summer no draft picks to.
Speaker 2: Trade that's kind of What i'm that's that was exactly
WHAT i was, Saying, Dan, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Boston.
Speaker 2: Why why why why Would boston Want?
Speaker 1: Nicola?
Speaker 2: No, no, No why why would any team Want Nicola? Jokic
i'm asking why would the co Want boston.
Speaker 1: To play With Jason tatum And Derek?
Speaker 2: White you think that's like the needle, mover you think
those guys are Like i'm, Question i'm Not i'm not
like trying to be. Sassy i'm genuinely asking you think
you think that that is like enough For jokic or
you want does he realize that next year he's gonna
be like thirty?
Speaker 1: Two right for well, ONE i think he wants to
stay In. DENVER i think that much is. Clear i'm
rooting for. It But, BOSTON i, Mean boston With tatum
And Derek white and, OKAY. Nikolea jokic is costing you
your pick OUT. Lt but it's an organization that's shown
they can mind value on the. Margins look at where
they drafted YOU O, gonzales who is the deal breaker
In giannis. Talks as ridiculous as that might, Sound Jordan,
walsh The kada extension like that was a good like
they Found caden where they got kid in the door
in the first, place and then that EXTENSION i think
ends up aging fairly, well it's under the mid level.
Exception that would be, like are, you As Nikola, jokic
if you're looking at this, objectively are you more intrigued
right now as you AND i are talking By boston's
trajectory if you're on, it Or denver's trajectory if you're
on on the.
Speaker 2: TEAM i, mean, look it's a good question Because i'm
not exactly loving Where boston is going considered ever since
winning the. Title SO i think that is also like
what AM i baking in? Here AM i baking in?
That jokitchen his team just has like this analytical view
of where the team is going or do you think
they're looking at things from a straight on? Perspective because
that's that's also, Important like players don't necessarily gauge situations
the same way you AND i.
Speaker 1: Do well do you? Have that wasn't even my favorite.
TEST i was just going through the list of, team
but what is the team YOU'RE i was more so
throwing this, out do YOU i wasn't gonna get into
is he gonna? LEAVE i was more so thinking do
you buy his extension, stance WHICH i think that both
of us. Do not that he is no send a
message to the front.
Speaker 2: Office, absolutely and he's usually not the one to do
that in the same way like he he'll do, that
like like he said multiple, times he will go to
ownership or at least leadership and just let them. Know
this feels like something. Else this seems like he's a
little bit fed up with the situation or not not
in terms of that he wants, out but it seems,
like you, know you have to be. Serious but in
terms of like the, TEAM i don't think he's eyeing
any teams at this stage, yet Right LIKE.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think he. WOULD i think he's so committed
To denver THAT i would guess he hasn't even. THOUGHT
i was more, so what are the teams that would make?
Sense is Than nikolio like coming in and also as
The nuggets If. Nicole let's say nicoliok isn't going to
sign an, extension because he can sign at any point this.
Year but let's say he's already ruled it. Out he's,
Saying i'm not signing. It you have to at least
think about trading, him, Right you can't afford to lose
him for.
Speaker 2: Nothing, yeah that's WHY i brought up The, lakers because
AGAIN i assume that if he at any point once,
out he's going to tell The NUGGETS i want to
play With LUCA. I that just seems to me to
be a thing, like, obviously, okay what what You're.
Speaker 1: You're how are they get are you? True so It's,
Walker Kesler reeves and no.
Speaker 2: Pictures, Again i'm talking from the side Of. Jokic, again
a player doesn't have to go in and make all
these calculations and make all these analysis that you AND
i have to. Make BUT i wouldn't be surprised if
that's what he gets, into that he goes to ownership
or leadership and just SAYS i want to play With
duka and then the onus is on, them like do
they trade him to The lakers or? Whatever poopoo platter
they can get compared to what it's, worth or are
they going to try to sell the farm even though
they don't have it to Get luca And? Denver, LIKE
i just think that is ultimately what he's gonna want to.
Do it feels like those two are, somehow some way
trying to get.
Speaker 1: There that would be SOMETHING i don't envy that team's
resulting defense when they end up with those, two AND
i DON'T i can't see it happening just based off
what happened with The. Lakers it would have to Be
denver trades For luca and maybe does The laker season
go so belly up That luca requests out after this?
Speaker 2: YEAR i guess maybe that's also a long shut right.
About i'm just saying from the side Of jokich that
if he wants out, Eventually i'm pretty sure That luca
is going to be a name that's gonna be brought.
Speaker 1: Up, LIKE i.
Speaker 2: Don't think The european ankle is something to be. Disregarded, SORRY.
Speaker 1: I think he could be disregarded in the sense OF
i just don't understand how it. Works is he taking? Less,
no that's scare The lakers. Again i'm, saying from his,
perspective goddamn. It so who what? Happened like salary dumping with?
Them what's gonna happen? Here i'm assuming they're gonna Bring
Peyton watson, back. Right they're open to sign and trades
apparently if they lose. HIM i don't know what message
that's necessarily sending To. Yokic i've floated Because, MEMPHIS i
don't know if there's Enough memphis has The Jaron jackson
junior traded player, Exception Does Christian Brown Cam johnson and
a swap FOR kcp get that deal? Done you're getting
off and then you can resign of?
Speaker 2: It, yeah, yeah, yeah because again you have to look
at it also as you were Getting Peyton watson, back,
Right like that's an.
Speaker 1: Addition it's a bad it's a bad deal for The.
Nuggets LIKE i Just i'm not a fan Of Christian
brown's contract. ANYMORE i was looking his two point percentage
dropped by thirty three points When jokic was off the
floor last.
Speaker 2: Year that is, insane, Right and and look you're you're
you have to like make some sacrifices.
Speaker 1: Here it's a.
Speaker 2: SHAME i actually loved what they did last, year just
with the Whole Camp johnson, situation but he just didn't
materialize in the way that they thought he. WOULD i
think you AND i even had them as one of
the biggest winners last year in the, offseason and AND
i actually had.
Speaker 1: Them as a. LOSER i wasn't a fan of the
The johnson Deal, johnson actually REALLY i. DIDN'T i didn't
like the. VALUE i came at it from the perspective
of you Have Nicole yokich in your and you used
your best trade. Ship Then i'm misremembering then then it
might have Been brian AND i who did? That my?
Mistake all, RIGHT i know that's.
Speaker 2: Bye by the, way that's horrible THAT i got you
confused With brian sapporik that that's just.
Speaker 1: There are worst people you Can he's super. Tall So
i'll take. IT i don't and by that, DEAL i
don't even know WHERE i land on it. TODAY i
still think that was a misuse of an. Asset but
LIKE i Think Cam johnson is was fod like and
he was their most reliable player by the end of
the playhoffs last. Year SO i just Don't i'm looking
at it if, you especially for a team that doesn't
have a ton of shooting as it, is if you
need to Dump Cam johnson because you don't want to
go into the second apron or is this a team
THAT'S i don't know how they do, it but, like
are they just gonna be because they're a? Repeater are
they gonna be looking at duck the tax? ENTIRELY i don't.
KNOW i don't know how they get, there because what
are they into the? Taxes right? Now they're fifteen.
Speaker 2: Almost eleven million. Over oh that's Before Marvin backley And Tyas.
JONES i think you're a fifth team if you wave that. Way,
Yeah SO.
Speaker 1: I mean that would be do you just Dump Cam
johnson then you Trade Peyton watson and let it? Roll
that would be If I'm, jokis that's Alarm Bell. City
So I'M i guess my question is how does AND
i don't know the. Answer that's what this whole exercise is.
FOR i don't know how this whole rigamarole. Ends is
it they trade one player Resigned Peyton? Watson is if
they just Let Peyton watson? Walk is it they trade
two players bring Back Peyton? Watson are they just getting
rid of two? Players to duckt the. TAX i think
there are a lot of different scenarios in play, here
and most of them make me feel.
Speaker 2: Uncomfortable, yeah, no, Absolutely AND i think that is fair
when you're Paying Jamal murray And Nicola jokic this amount
of money And Aaron gordon and The ferdy plus million.
Speaker 1: Area he would be another name where it's where they.
Like we've Seen murray And Aaron gordon kind of in trade.
RUMORS i don't think you could deal either one of
those guys and get. Better IF i had to pick
who's more likely to, GO i feel as if it
would Be Aaron. GORDON i just think breaking up The
Jokic murray, synergy, right is like a cardinal.
Speaker 2: SIN i NOT i, agree BUT i mean you could
also Add gordon to. THAT i don't even think it's
Just Jokic. MURRAY i think It's Jokic Murray. Gordon, OH i.
Speaker 1: Think It's i'm in agreement with. YOU i think if
they moved, one, though it'd be more likely to Be. Gordon, yeah, same,
same just also because he's easy you to. Move, frankly,
like it's easy to move thirty one million than. Fifty
so let's break this down step by. Step will The
nuggets be a Second apron team next?
Speaker 2: Year?
Speaker 1: Yes or? No? No? No will will The nuggets be
a luxury tax team next? Year? Yes? YEAH i think. So,
YEAH i honestly don't. KNOW i got, BAD i got bad.
Vibes MAYBE i should be, HAPPY i should feel more
confident because they haven't done anything nuclear to this. POINT
i don't feel great about. That Is Peyton watson on
The Denver nuggets next? Year? Inconclusive here's a better. One
are Both Peyton watson And Cam johnson on The nuggets Next?
NO i don't think. So. NO i THINK i think
that's probably the right, answer which is just. Awful, yeah
you sir have not Given we had other, questions but
we'll cover other teams later this. Week, you, sir have
not talked about on a podcast yet The Jallen brown, trade? Right?
Uh not In? English? No. ALRIGHT i was actually hoping
to bring you on for The danis. Version so never mind,
Then but we do Have Brad. STEVENS i don't know
if you saw his comments on. It gave an explanation
behind The Jallen brown. Trade did the whole we lost
sleep and he Essentially we've talked about this, before you AND,
i me And, GRANT i think just others about how
for all this talk of the three max model being,
dead we might be approaching a point where the two
veteran max model is too heavy To bay. Teams you
it is too heavy to. Bear Brad stevens kind of
essentially confirmed that even though you didn't save a ton
of money With Paul, george you did increase your optionality
by getting draft. Picks and his deal is done one year.
Sooner knowing What Brad stevens, said knowing the talk Around Jaalen,
brown the on off splits all, that where have you
landed on, This?
Speaker 2: Tren i'm very curious to know what you. Think SO
i wasn't as low on What boston got in return
as everyone, else even though obviously Like brown was the
best piece going, out Like philly got. Him that's a
win right. There BUT i do Think Paul george just
fits into the makeup of The celtics right now Under Joe.
Massula the major question for me is. Health, like If
Paul george is only going to play forty to fifty,
games that's probably an. Issue but when you think about
his playing, style and if you think of like the
perimeter oriented three point volume that they are sporting In,
Boston Paul george fits right in like six,' ten takes
a shit ton, of threes makes them at a, decent
clip like if he gets even, More up he's the
type of guy who can actually maintain that level, of
efficiency which is. PRETTY insane i think he's severely underrated
historically as, a shooter like we all took just, too
many we all made TOO many pg jokes or, you
know playoff, p jokes like there's something there in terms
of the. Shooting department is he Still The paul george?
Speaker 1: Of old.
Speaker 2: Absolutely not that's also why you have to just realize
that in terms of like the raw volume, or sorry
the raw return in terms of, trade Value the celtics
didn't get a better package in return than what they.
Gave UP but i do think. We sold we were
a little too Harsh On paul george and his Fit,
in boston to, be honest.
Speaker 1: That is. PROBABLY fair I just I guess i didn't
see a lot of people coming at It From paul
george is trash and a terrible Fit. In boston it
was just the value proposition Of Trading jalen brown on
off splits and all was why did you make this?
Move now would you have been better off just letting
this ride out until the end of his contract or
the final year of? His contract that would lead me
TO believe i do give. THIS out i. Said this
people did not react well to our reaction TO the
i didn't realize How many, celtics fans by, the way
just Think That jalen brown is eminently detrimental to. THE
team i honestly had. No idea that was just like
a thing floating. Around. There wow but my point WAS
is i would rather if we were talking about title
equity and it was over the next two to, three
years would you rather have What the celtics, Just Did
paul george end those Picks Or. JALEN brown i would
Rather Have. Jalen. Brown yeah same if the goal is the. Title,
immediately yes it's a different discussion if you. View it
the dynamic was so untenable behind the scenes because he
was dangled in trade Talks for gannest and because he wanted,
an extension which the. Extension stuff i'm all for players,
getting PAID and i think it kind of, it sucks
but this was also, collectively bargained so it's on them.
As well the fact that we're getting into a, point,
Where's Oh donda mitchell just signed an extension that is
gonna be one of the worst deals in, the league
if not, right now like because it's five years in
three hundred and twenty three. Million total he's but now
the way that we're talking about these players and it's
like they get to a certain number and, it's, just
oh they're not. WORTH it i understand it from both sides, to,
where yeah you can't really build a team having two
guys worth more than thirty five percent of the cap
when one of them is not a top. TEN player
I just i still would have either weighted with the
hope that a better market materializes by next summer or
just to increase my. Title, odds again unless this was
my POINT that i trailed. Off on things were so
intenable behind the scenes because he wanted an extension and
for some reason that you have three guaranteed years left on,
your contract why is it you don't need an extension
as soon as your, extension eligible which IS where i
would push back If the, celtics need like felt as
if they needed to. Trade him that's Still where i'm
sort of at on. The TRADE it's i Think the
celtics are still going to be. REALLY good I just
i'm wondering if they've leaned too far as of right
Now into, missoula BALL because i Think Having jalen brown
and again the on off splits are not always going
to support this having Someone Like jalen brown the stuff
he can do on, the ball and deviate, From That
jason tatum can do much of. THE same I Think
jalen brown's on ball rim pressure is just going to
be better at. THIS point i think that's THE where.
I land i think that has more value Than What
paul george is just better off as a compliment. Right
now and the other THING that i think might be
being missed he closed the season really strong last year
after getting a twenty five game for, Sabbatical suspension and
so what happens if he finally does play in, more
games which by, the way he historically. Hasn't done the
last time he played in seventy games or shortened season
equivalent was. Twenty eighteen that's a long, time ago and
he's played in eighty six games combined over the past,
two SEASONS so I think i probably understand it a
little bit more when you start to think about the
cap dynamics of. It All but i'm Looking At paul
george's number anyway, and wondering still wondering whether this needed
to be, done now and the fact that they felt
it did still leads me to believe that we just
haven't even heard close to the full story of what
was happening. Behind, this yeah we were Waiting For ramona
shelbourn on, that ONE and i don't, even know, but
Yeah the athletic published like a good look behind, the
curtain and IT just i came away from, it saying,
all right there was clearly, tension THERE but i don't
know If like i'm not seeing anything that should. Have
been we need to get Rid Of jalen, Brown now
and by, THE way i think what's also risky Here Is.
Jason tatum if you're picking between the, two players it's not.
A contest i think there's also A subset i didn't
know this either of fans That Believe jalen brown is
Better than jason. Taate Them jason tadmen finished last year
injured after coming Off, the achilles and so it's a
risk to trade what's been one of the most durable
guys in, the league especially who's been able to handle
a pretty heavy. Defensive workload that's Also Like paul, george
durability that type of defensive workload isn't his. Bag ANYMORE
so i Was Looking jalen brown are the last. Half
decade four times in the last half decade has played
over fifteen hundred minutes while ranking in the seventy fifth
percentile or better of self created shot making efficiency and.
Defensive workload the only other players who have done the
same while playing one thousand minutes or more four times
in the past half Decade Was michale Bridges dearon FOX
and i can't even remember who the other. NAME was
i already, forgot it but it was like a it
wasn't Og WHY i'm i already forgetting what the, name
was but he had value, to them even despite what
the on off splits. Are Saying and i'm just curious
as to how they maybe some of the younger guys
are able to Paper. Over it did not come Away
From brad stevens's, press, conference though thinking that another move
was around. THE corner i think a lot of people
have been waiting for something to happen, this OFFSEASON and
i don't KNOW that i.
Speaker 2: SEE it i agree with that that was thought THE
impression i got either from reading what, he said, no.
Speaker 1: Finally just Thoughts On donovan mitchell got the. FULL boat
i was wondering if he was gonna take less than
the than the especially because did you see the report
That the celtics were trying to Negotiate With giannis they
didn't want to give him the full thirty five percent
max and, an extension and that's why the. DEAL felt
i don't know if, that's true but that was. The
report so you see things, like that and we're having
all these circular conversations about the importance of balancing out.
Your books can't have too many. Expensive Stars so i'm
just waiting for who's the guy who's the bigger name
that's gonna, Get squeezed and they Just dearon Fox No,
Brainer Max Jaron, Jackson Junior No, brainer max renegotiate And
Extend donovan mitchell No, brainer max which his. TOTAL commitment
i threw out three hundred and twenty five million. DOLLARS
before i don't even know if. That's right his total
commitment now is five years and three hundred and twenty
three point six. Million, dollars yeah remaining on his.
Speaker 2: Deal almost three Hundred mili oh, more yeah more and. More.
Speaker 1: More.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah the extension is for for two seventy, seven
plus but including, this year he's now up to five
and three twenty three plus a lot. Of. Money yes
so my thoughts on, that are we need to talk
about cap percentages and we need to make sure that
people are aligned on just what A new nba contract
is because he's going to have a player option of,
forty no seventy, five million and that, seems preposterous but
that is where the cap. Is now like we are
APPROACHING an nba, where players the superstars are getting approximately
one hundred million dollars, a year and we still have fans, who,
say oh fifteen million a year for a starting small
forward is. Too, expensive. Nope nope so we need to
like re educate people on the salary cap and and
basically what contracts are nowadays because PEOPLE are i saw
the reactions to, this, WAS well, nba contracts it's gotten out.
Of hand they haven't they. Haven't changed it's it's the.
Same percentage it's it's just that the cap increased and
so the volume of, The, contract yeah.
Speaker 1: It is and it isn't the same percentage because of
like the way that the if you're looking at how the,
contracts Are Like, donovan mitchell's like the average percentage of
the cap based, off projection he's gonna be worth thirty
five point one four percent over the next five years
and that's including this year when he's not on the
thirty five. Percent max so there is there is something
to that where the, cap growth like the raises on
these contracts are now outpacing the salary, cap, Growth right
and so this Deal for mitchell, IS actually, i know
it's only a couple centers point where we're talking about
millions of dollars a year at. That point so it's
like his salary is gonna.
Speaker 2: End up.
Speaker 1: On his player, option, year yeah which is like that's
a huge for someone going into his age thirty four
season who's a. Small guard he has the three point
shot making going. For him I'm just i've had this Conversation.
With grant i'm not advocating, for it, although again this
is COLLECTIVELY bargained. I don't i don't. KNOW that i
think we're going to reach a point where these players
are going to have to make the binary choice, of
WELL do i want to be on a contender deeper
into my career OR do i want these? Max DEALS
because i think part of the issue with even if
you say you can only give out one or two,
max deals the most expensive players also tend to be
the oldest when we're talking, about stars and so they're
at a point where their production is like underpacing what they're.
Speaker 2: Being paid BRIAN and i had that conversation for almost,
ten years and it's such. A problem i still think
the thirty five percent max should be after year seven
and up till to, year ten and then the year
ten max should be. THIRTY percent i just. Flip it.
Speaker 1: THERE'S all. I mean there's also been the there's, the
PITCH and I Think bobby marx has been one of
the biggest advocates of this is that you still give
out like the thirty five percent max can still be,
given out but it would only apply as thirty percent
of the. Salary cap and he likened it to do
you know how, right now let's say if you sign
a veteran, minimum contract but you have ten plus years.
Of experience your minimum salary is what in twenty, twenty
six twenty, twenty seven that is three point, nine million
but you're only going to count against the books for
two point four to, five million and so it was
A similar it was like an analog, for that but
you're just dealing with higher. DOLLAR amounts i DON'T think
I think i, like that especially if you're couching it
with the player needed to have been drafted by the
team or traded on his. Rookie scale that want to
Apply To, donovan mitchell then it won't Apply to Giannis,
with miami and that's the it. Would have it might
have Kept the, celtics together though it would be an
instance where it. Would, apply yeah yeah. It might.
Speaker 2: So How old i'm just trying to Figure out, Mitchell
here like he's he's in his age, thirty season right
or is He, entering.
Speaker 1: Yeah this contract goes through his age thirty.
Speaker 4: Four, season Yeah, it's look he kind of signed the
guys to keep your, competitive window because it makes sense
if you win, a chip, right like and you in
order to win, a chip you have to.
Speaker 2: Have your best, guys, there like is that deal going
to age probably horrendously? Later, on, yeah yeah when he
picks up a seventy five million dollar player option at
the age of what, forty four that's going to. Be,
Problematic absolutely but you just you don't have. A. Choice
uh i'd.
Speaker 1: Be curious i'd be curious if there was any negotiation
or if they just came to him, with, this right this.
Speaker 2: Is this is going to be like how it Goes with.
Wemby too it's just gonna be like, Knock knock yeah. It's,
time oh, All right i'll. Sign, it, Okay cool it's gonna.
Speaker 1: Be that he's also so Much Like donovan mitchell is
the perfect example because he's probably at the point in
his career where now it becomes a discussion as to
when how much more can how much longer can he
provide live up to the value of. THAT contract i
think he's PROBABLY if i had, TO guess, i mean
he's been entrenched in THE all nba discussion every, single
year and so if he stays that course for the
next two to, three years then you're only looking, at,
all right the final two years of this deal or?
Speaker 2: What's, underwater yeah and that's. NOT bad, i mean that's
that's just how. It is that's the price of. Doing
business like there are OTHER contracts i would point to as. More,
worrisome yep that was THE guy i had. In, mind,
yes uh would you?
Speaker 1: Rather? Have so so their commitments. Are Different But devin
booker four years and two hundred and fifty point six
Million Or donovan mitchell owed, five years three hundred and twenty,
three million give me. That Again devin booker's Got four
i'll round, it down four years and two Fifty For,
devin booker five years and three twenty Three For. Donovan
mitchell who would you?
Speaker 2: RATHER have I Like, mitchell Moore so i'm Gonna.
Speaker 1: GO mitchell i believe the right answer Is, probably MITCHELL
BUT i i FEEL like i Might Pick. Devin booker,
i'm like just Such A devin booker stand that it's.
Probably disgusting my value. Is playmaking would you take both
of those Guys Over diaron fox's four for two? Twenty,
one yeah, all right there. You go that's that's good
damning with.
Speaker 2: FAME praise, I mean I, like fox but like that
deal was it was a forty. Percent max just it's
it's INTERESTING because I think i said this in this,
first section it's less Problematic For san antonio than basically
any other team in.
Speaker 1: The, league yeah which is why. It's, interesting uh unless
you have. Anything else the actual final addendum here we
did not get the news. Though MORE but i have
to ask you Where Is lebron? James going and people
have asked Me why i've called this four. Point zero
it's because it's the fourth time that he'll be changing
teams in, free Agency so i'm Calling It lebron watch
Four point oh that's. Very creative it's. NOT creative i
just some people want why is It like Lebron watched
part one and?
Speaker 2: Forty seven, so okay are you asking ME where i
think he'll go OR where i want him?
Speaker 1: To go let's. Do both where do you want him?
Speaker 2: To?
Speaker 1: Go spurs they're not even on or they're not even
On the they're on, the whiteboard but they're not on the.
FINAL list i.
Speaker 2: Don't care THAT'S where i want him to go because
that makes sense to play With The martin rosen got it.
Speaker 1: With the Mar and harry b.
Speaker 2: WHO'S returning i just wanted an old. Man, CROWD no
i THINK he'll i think He'll. Be cleveland he'll sign
Some major netflix deal and then just it's the fine
only year it's gonna be A for, well show it's
going To.
Speaker 1: Be, cleveland yeah it does seem like it's Pointing. TO
cleveland I Predicted. Golden state grant talked me into it
Because The golden state's been big on the meaningful. Basketball
terminology and then there was the quote that was released
That said lebron wants to play. MEANINGFUL basketball i thought
it was a, tie In but i'd rather see him
just go somewhere else Other. Than cleveland there's just a
lot of, been there done that. FOR me i know
it's there's the poeticism, of it but, been there, Done
THAT and i. FLIP flopped I said I Predicted. GOLDEN
state i was On a cleveland radio station the other day,
and said it feels like it's just Gonna be cleveland at.
This juncture and if that's what, It is i'm not.
JUST boring i. Get it good. For him it's. His
choice but if if you were to try and make
the case where we're going to try and win, a
title do the most for, his legacy what's? The team
is it Still the spurs contenuinely asking because if you
win a title with a, fourth team. That's, insane sure
but like he wouldn't be like the. MAIN guy i
mean he would be what what team are we? Talking about, You? Said, spurs,
well men where? Would you where would be the if
you were trying to boost? Your LEGACY if i want a?
TITLE here i think the most people the answer Has.
Been minnesota imagine Going to minnesota and.
Speaker 2: Winning, title yeah that's a, good ONE NO i i,
BUT like i don't Know if lebron has grown like
above that now with the title stuff and like you
just want the story now and stuff. The titles but
like if he were to finish out his career with,
a title that would be. Pretty epic where the hell?
Speaker 3: Is?
Speaker 1: That though.
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 1: Not denver.
Speaker 2: Then if he Goes, to denver everything is safe from
what we talked? About earlier what is oh, what yo
kitch isn't? Going anywhere is that what you're? TALKING about
i mean it's just like it's just like then we're
talking they're gonna miss out or they're Gonna Trade christian
brown and they're.
Speaker 1: Gonna salary, it's like, all right, it's fine just, go
ahead You're. Getting lebron, it's. OKAY yeah i mean if
You Keep peyton Watson bringing lebron and you don't have
To trade Gordon Or, jamal murray you can do whatever.
YOU want I think I Prefer cam johnson still, be
there but, Still right detroit would be enough if he
was looking to really. Like that that would be another
good one of the teams that are still being. Mentioned
though It's probably Minnesota because i've Only, Seen, Denver minnesota
Cleveland Or golden state as the Or my miami's just that's,
been there done that, for me and they're not gonna
win with him.
Speaker 2: Too thin Same got Lebron And, LaMelo, okay.
Speaker 1: Yep, Oh, man yeah he would definitely institute A bedtime
tv after dinner on. Game. NIGHTS right i. LOVE it i.
Speaker 2: Love it and as soon as he Sees that hummer
drive out of the drive out of, the arena he's
gonna call, him like don't you do that?
Speaker 1: Ship, again well he's gonna be one to call the
cops on on. THE RIGHT i i did find it
funny that part Of the wolves's pitch, was hey come
Play with it was just like. So uninspiring it was
just them listing. Their, roster basically they're trying To Pitch
lebron i'm Playing With Rudy LaMelo Ball And, Anthony edwards and, it's,
like yes those are and d the players were on
the team that you would be selling, him on as opposed,
to like what are what are other teams pitching him
on players they. DON'T have I guess. I don't i
don't know.
Speaker 2: Right right or market, value like but but Here, in minnesota,
we're cold but We Have, anthony edwards which you.
Speaker 1: Already know here's. Our pitch. It's great was there anything
else happening this offseason and free Agency That jalen durren
thoughts what's going on with him And?
Speaker 2: The pistons, JUST briefly i think his market has just,
right UP and i think the postseason. RUINED him, I
like i think he was really, feel.
Speaker 1: Yeah oh like he was just. So bad he was
so bad in.
Speaker 2: THE postseason i think so many teams that were in
on and before the start of the playoffs, were like uh,
OH oh, i no we can't justify this, at all, and,
well rightfully so we'll see. What happens he's probably looking
for a sign and trade situation right now to get,
his MONEY but i would just really like to know
where he'll try to find.
Speaker 1: That market do you think there's any chance he signs his? Qualifying?
OFFER yeah. I do that WOULD be, i mean it
happened a few times, last year But AN all nba
player sign? When's less Have AN all nba player signed a?
Qualifying offer has that? Ever happened greg went out Didn't MAKE,
all NBA but i remember he was one of the
bigger names that. DID it i don't. Think, So No
jonathan Kaminga MADE all nba in, his MIND so i,
guess mate does that count he didn't sign his? Qualifying offer? Never, MIND.
Speaker 2: No I think i think he's he's going to be
in for a.
Speaker 1: ROUGH time i don't even Know the kings had been
floated as the sign of. TRADE destination i don't. Even
know the problem with that is who do they have
That the pistons are gonna, be, like, yeah well we'll
negotiate a sign and trade because they can't Just take duran.
Into anything they're in the tax right now or after Waving,
to rosen they should. Be FINE but i don't even
know what's going out in. That deal they're trying to
sell you on you get into base your, compensation issues
so it's not Even zach lavine wouldn't. EVEN work, I
know i think it's going to be a.
Speaker 2: Tough one someone, DID this i Think On blue sky
just basically outlined how difficult that deal.
Speaker 1: Would Be to. Sacramento, specifically yeah it's a.
Speaker 2: GOOD question i don't know what's gonna, happen here and
like teams are drying up with cap, space too like
their isl lot. Out there it just seems to me
like this this just reeks of a qualifying offer and
then let's go back to the well. Next year so
you think you think he's gonna sign, Is qualifying like
you actually think that's what's. Gonna happen interesting unless they
just have it Comes to jesus moment both sides, and, say,
okay look You know kate is pushing us to really,
sign you and you guys do have, a great, you
know great chemistry on, The court like we expect you to.
Get better we're hoping that the playoffs last year was just.
Speaker 1: You know you having.
Speaker 2: AN aneurysm i mean that, was me but like he
just played. So Poorly jesus christ that was just one
of the Worst performances i'd seen from AN old, Nba
guy so like there might, be that but as of,
RIGHT now i think he's probably inclined to take THE.
Speaker 1: C qo do you think what do you think? The
OP but i guess If, you're detroit what is your
what are you? Maxing him what is your max value?
On him would you give Him the so the max
another team could have given him was, four years one
hundred and seventy seven point. Three million do you think
that's the number there we'll want to. Get to do
You Think walker kestler getting four for one thirty help or?
Hurt him hurt him in the sense Because the lakers.
Are out but.
Speaker 2: So, let's see what is twenty percent of the? Salary
cap that is like forty, three, million right forty two forty?
Speaker 1: Three million that sounds. About Right walker kesler's on the
books for thirty point two and is eighteen point three
percent of.
Speaker 2: The, Cap okay So If, i'm detroit That's what. I'm
offering i'm offering a flat rate of, Twenty percent so
basically twenty percent, year one and then that number flat
throughout the remainder of, The contract.
Speaker 1: So it would it de escalates in percentage of.
Speaker 2: The, cap yeah but like the number stays the same
as Something Like jalen.
Speaker 1: Johnson's. Contract, WOW yeah i think if that's, THEIR offer
i would understand it from, their perspective and it's Their
perspective i've been approaching. It, from yes if that's the,
offer though, THEN yeah i would Think that jalen durn
ends up signing his. Qualifying. Offer right their off season
has been well'll talk about them. Another time their off
season has. BEEN interesting i think people were expecting more fireworks. Than.
This more you have anything else.
Speaker 2: You want to?
Speaker 1: Talk about or can you tell our fine audience where
they could find you and all the fantastic work that.
Speaker 3: You?
Speaker 2: Do, yes absolutely you can find me over AT the
nba podcast Over At, yahoo sports and if You, understand
danish you can Listen To buster beater or catch from
calling GAMES On.
Speaker 1: Hbo mac until, next time and, AS always i leave
you all with the shout out to, the one, the only,
the indelible the one who could really Bring the hornets
to glory after They Traded, LaMelo Ball Mister Frank yila
keina