Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, welcome to Pink Shade. It's Thursday, and that
Speaker 1: means we're going to talk about pop culture and Bravo.
Speaker 1: Of course, I've got an interesting guest today, Guys. I
Speaker 1: met Louis at Bravo con. So he was with Brian
Speaker 1: moylan and our good friend Mandy Slutsker. He also like
Speaker 1: Kay Casey. We have so many people in common. And
Speaker 1: when I looked him up, I was super impressed. And
Speaker 1: you know, I love to like stalk people, and I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my gosh. Louie writes for Harper's Bazaar.
Speaker 1: He's written for Rolling Stone, New York Times, Culture, New
Speaker 1: York Magazine, Hello, Slate. The list goes on and on.
Speaker 1: So I am super intrigued with Louis and I'm so
Speaker 1: glad you're here because we could talk about pop culture
Speaker 1: and my new obsession. Ladies of London, welcome London Calling.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited
Speaker 2: to be on your podcast.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Now we met a Bravo con and
Speaker 1: you were there writing a piece for who.
Speaker 3: So I was writing two pieces. I was following, well,
Speaker 3: not following. That sounds a little bit stalkery. I was
Speaker 3: shadowing which actually doesn't sound much less stock great Rachel Zoe.
Speaker 2: For the day.
Speaker 3: So I was basically like riding around in a golf
Speaker 3: buggy with her and as she reintroduced herself to the
Speaker 3: Bravo world. This was about a couple of weeks before
Speaker 3: the Beverly Hills current season premier, so we obviously got
Speaker 3: a sneak peek of the first fifteen minutes so BRAVACN.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it was basically like the reintroduction of Rachel Zoe.
Speaker 2: So that was for the.
Speaker 3: Cut and that was amazing, and she was exactly as
Speaker 3: she is on the show, and you know, just speaking
Speaker 3: in confessional speak constantly. And then the other piece, which
Speaker 3: was from Russell So as you as you know someone
Speaker 3: who's been to BRAVACN, BRAVACN is like the center of merch.
Speaker 3: You know, all the fans have their own march, Bravo's
Speaker 3: got its own march, Every reality starts their own march.
Speaker 3: There's like a huge market on full display. So I
Speaker 3: was speaking to fans and speaking to some of the
Speaker 3: people at the stalls and things like that.
Speaker 1: Incredible, incredible. I we met Rachel Zoe and BRAVOCN Ingrid
Speaker 1: and I. We were in the vip room, and in
Speaker 1: the vip room every so often they'll just bring in
Speaker 1: somebody and you don't know who it's going to be,
Speaker 1: and it's the luck of the draw. And rachel Zoe
Speaker 1: came in and stood and we went and got in line. Normally,
Speaker 1: we would just sort of look afar and be like,
Speaker 1: oh wow, there's Sierra from Summer House, or you know,
Speaker 1: there's brooks Marks. But with rachel Zoe, we were like,
Speaker 1: oh no, we need We're gonna have to get a
Speaker 1: picture with her. And we were the last of the
Speaker 1: line and the lady was about to cut us off
Speaker 1: and we're like, come on, so she let us get
Speaker 1: the picture. We were, we were on it. We were
Speaker 1: so fast like selfie, gotta go, so excited. Rachel Zo
Speaker 1: looked like to us, like stunned, like Brava Gane had
Speaker 1: had broken her. She was like, what is this?
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I spoke to her about this very thing
Speaker 3: because the last time, as you know, she was on Bravo,
Speaker 3: it was pre Instagram. You know, there wasn't the sort
Speaker 3: of evolved social media fandom which you know, you and
Speaker 3: I are are sort of a part of that. Wasn't
Speaker 3: that web of creators, and there certainly wasn't a Bravo Khan.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think I think in twenty ten, that
Speaker 3: was maybe the year Beverly Hills had its first season,
Speaker 3: and that was I think when her show maybe ended.
Speaker 3: I'm not I'm not quite sure of the exact dates,
Speaker 3: but she was on very early. I mean I spoke
Speaker 3: to Andy about her and he was which was side note,
Speaker 3: we'll talk about that in a second, but he said
Speaker 3: to me that he started producing her show before he
Speaker 3: even did his US Real Housewives reunion, So she kind
Speaker 3: of really predates housewives in a lot of ways.
Speaker 2: So she's very school.
Speaker 3: And also, don't you think those Beverly Hills women like
Speaker 3: there's a kind of just a I don't even know
Speaker 3: how to describe it. The Beverly Hills to me, are
Speaker 3: like the prestige, Like there's a certain status that comes
Speaker 3: with being a Beverly Hills housewife that I think makes
Speaker 3: everyone kind of just go oh wow, like they're seeing
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know, just like a list
Speaker 3: stars in the house.
Speaker 1: Yes, world, Yes. And it's interesting that you said that
Speaker 1: because I just read an article that you did for
Speaker 1: Betches about millennial housewives on Bravo and you used Amanda
Speaker 1: as an example, and I want to talk about that
Speaker 1: because you just saying that about Beverly Hills reminded me
Speaker 1: of that article. And we have these housewives that we
Speaker 1: love that we've you know that many of them are
Speaker 1: you know, close to my age, and they've lived lives
Speaker 1: they're interesting. And then you get these young women on
Speaker 1: It's not that they haven't lived lives that aren't interesting,
Speaker 1: because everybody can be interesting at any age. But you
Speaker 1: take somebody like Amanda who gets in there and is like,
Speaker 1: you hurt my feelings when you said I was a whimp,
Speaker 1: and you're like, you're gonna have to tough it up.
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Speaker 3: I think so yeah. Firstly, thank you for bringing this up.
Speaker 3: It's something that's been on my mind because she really
Speaker 3: sums up to me the new wife as in the
Speaker 3: sort of the younger crop of past wives we're seeing.
Speaker 3: Obviously she's quite an extreme example, but yeah, the sort
Speaker 3: of therapy speak. The don't get me wrong, I don't
Speaker 3: think there's anything wrong with therapy speak in certain situations,
Speaker 3: and like, it is actually really good to have healthy
Speaker 3: boundaries in friendships. But it's a strange mixture and I
Speaker 3: think hypocrisy where she's going into the friendships and expecting
Speaker 3: them to be like her friendships in the everyday world,
Speaker 3: which is kind of which is kind of ridiculous if
Speaker 3: you think about it, because in the everyday world, firstly,
Speaker 3: these women are we're seeing a small percentage of what's
Speaker 3: actually filmed.
Speaker 2: Like these women are hanging out with each other.
Speaker 3: Near on every day for about four months, which is
Speaker 3: you know, most people don't see their friends that often,
Speaker 3: let alone if you are having really fractious, you know,
Speaker 3: difficult conversations, you would probably not speak to someone for
Speaker 3: a while, like, but in this world, you're at dinner
Speaker 3: party with them the next day, So it's not it's
Speaker 3: not realistic to put those expectations onto these friendships. But
Speaker 3: then there's a flip side of that, which is when
Speaker 3: it's time to promote business or do self promo, which
Speaker 3: as we've seen Amanda do literally relentlessly when.
Speaker 2: She's on the show. Yes, to go back to my
Speaker 2: point I just made.
Speaker 3: We're seeing a small snippet, So think how much she
Speaker 3: must actually be talking about this is how much we're seeing.
Speaker 3: It must be constant, never ending, talking about her business.
Speaker 3: So when they want to talk about business, it's like, oh, suddenly,
Speaker 3: this is a work platform. It's you know, it's a word,
Speaker 3: it's a job. But when it's time to have those
Speaker 3: actually difficult conversations across the dinner table, it's you're verbally
Speaker 3: costing me, And this is you know, my body's experiencing.
Speaker 3: This is like a physiological attack or whatever. It wasn't
Speaker 3: she actually said crazy. My eyes was rolling into the
Speaker 3: back of my head. And by the way, I say
Speaker 3: all this as a millennial, I am a millennial. I
Speaker 3: get where she's coming from. I'm probably you know, I'm
Speaker 3: closer in age to her than the other other women.
Speaker 3: But I still think that her expectations of conflict are
Speaker 3: not realistic for being on what is, let's be honest,
Speaker 3: a conflict centered show, and it's not just her. I
Speaker 3: think on the Potomac Reunion, okay, I said something to
Speaker 3: the effect of, like people are more sensitive than you.
Speaker 3: People the show are more sensitive than the than Like
Speaker 3: the bars sort have changed from what you're allowed to
Speaker 3: say and what's what's considered shade and what's considered mean
Speaker 3: that you know, that has changed, And.
Speaker 2: I do think that's changed because some of the women younger.
Speaker 3: The irony is that actually is obviously like a very
Speaker 3: exceptional case of someone that was practically born and raised
Speaker 3: on this show, like she's been. I think she was
Speaker 3: twenty eight or something when she on her very young,
Speaker 3: which is very unusual in the housewives world. But she's
Speaker 3: kind of a weird exception. But because she's sort of
Speaker 3: a younger person that's been in the older era. But yeah,
Speaker 3: I think that Amanda sums up a lot of this stuff.
Speaker 3: It's another part of it is, you know, this relentless
Speaker 3: sort of self promotion. I think that the best housewives
Speaker 3: understand that you get to promote yourself if you want
Speaker 3: to do that once you formed an emotional connection with people.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like a quid pro pro right, It's
Speaker 3: like you let us into your life, you share, you
Speaker 3: give us you know, the details of your divorce or
Speaker 3: like whatever whatever your problem is in your life or
Speaker 3: what you know. We want to see as the audience
Speaker 3: that everyone shit stinks, right, Like, no matter no matter
Speaker 3: how expensive the sheets, no matter how opulent the bed,
Speaker 3: we like to see that, oh, these people are going
Speaker 3: through things that we relate to. It's like a strange
Speaker 3: Venn diagram of relatability and escapism and when it crosses
Speaker 3: over that's the sweet spot. And I think the Best
Speaker 3: Housewives understand that Rachel Zau is a great example.
Speaker 2: She's you know, she kind.
Speaker 3: Of she's an individual case because her brand is basically
Speaker 3: being Rachel Zoe and being fabulous the whole time.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: Yes, if you think Rachel Zau has not tried to
Speaker 3: sell us one product, or taken us to one product
Speaker 3: launch or done done anything that's like directly like by
Speaker 3: this now in the whole show, she has basically led
Speaker 3: us into her life sort of relaunching where she's at
Speaker 3: now exploring this sort of what I just said that
Speaker 3: the pressures and the greatness but also the complicatedness of
Speaker 3: stepping out after a divorce.
Speaker 2: Isn't that something so many women.
Speaker 3: Can relate to, even if you're not, Although that's such
Speaker 3: a relatable thing. So she's understanding that you have to
Speaker 3: build that connection with people before, like maybe next season
Speaker 3: we'll see her doing like a new line of like
Speaker 3: Rachel's or a new you know.
Speaker 2: Something business like, but she's, yeah, we probably will.
Speaker 3: I would be very surprised if you don't, but I
Speaker 3: won't be mad about it because I feel like she's
Speaker 3: we've earned that, Like she's shared enough that it feels genuine.
Speaker 3: Whereas Amanda showing up in like episode one and like
Speaker 3: flogging off her products.
Speaker 2: It just doesn't does it.
Speaker 1: But her product is, as Bo's and Rachel said when
Speaker 1: they were shopping is you know, it was a conversation
Speaker 1: of her product is meditation, but she wrote books about it,
Speaker 1: to meditate about business, to be rich. But what's the business?
Speaker 1: It's sort of like, you know, and you can see
Speaker 1: you know, accomplished business people like Bo's and Rachel Zoe
Speaker 1: being confused about explaining this business and then her being
Speaker 1: so rude about the books. You know, like I got her,
Speaker 1: we got her point right. She didn't have a ghostwriter.
Speaker 1: That's fine, but to be like I just thought everybody
Speaker 1: wrote their books and just to keep saying it, it's
Speaker 1: like you're not making any friends. You're making these women
Speaker 1: hate you. You know.
Speaker 3: Also, can I just I know a lot I actually
Speaker 3: know people that have ghost written books. You know, Brian
Speaker 3: Moreland as you know ghost Danes New York Times bestselling memoir.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of skill that goes into that ghost
Speaker 3: writing a book. But there's a lot of skill, Like
Speaker 3: it's that working relationship with the ghostwriter that makes the
Speaker 3: book good and that let me tell you, the person
Speaker 3: isn't sitting there and writing all of the book.
Speaker 2: It's like a collaborative project.
Speaker 3: And as someone that's actually you know, written writes professionally,
Speaker 3: I think that it would be kind of silly for
Speaker 3: Deit to just attempt to write a book from nothing
Speaker 3: like like like some people spend their lives working as
Speaker 3: journalists and writers normally before they even attempt to write
Speaker 3: a book, which to be not done. So that doesn't
Speaker 3: really make a huge amount of sense to me for
Speaker 3: Deit to be writing her book for nowhere, like I
Speaker 3: think it will be a much higher quality piece of
Speaker 3: work working with someone that knows how to write a
Speaker 3: book like that.
Speaker 1: She's not a writer, so that would make nice.
Speaker 3: Yeah, whereas a man, that kind of I think is
Speaker 3: almost positioning, like she's obviously positioning herself as this, you know,
Speaker 3: manifestation expert. But I do think she does consider herself
Speaker 3: a writer, so you know, maybe it just makes more
Speaker 3: sense for her to write her book if that's her
Speaker 3: main gig.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I mean, don't get me wrong. I actually so.
Speaker 3: I would just like to say, as a caveat to this,
Speaker 3: I think that Amana has been dealt a rough hand
Speaker 3: with the whole derit comments that she made about the
Speaker 3: marriage and things like that. I think she was kind
Speaker 3: of set up agree, So all of these comments I'm
Speaker 3: saying about her general annoyingness are not actually to do
Speaker 3: with that. Like I think that I actually sided with
Speaker 3: her in that situation. I think that what she said
Speaker 3: was not that much of a deep comment, like it's
Speaker 3: being presented like she stopped the whole dinner to make
Speaker 3: some grandiose, massive statement about Durete's marriage. It was like
Speaker 3: kind of like, oh, maybe she shouldn't do that. I
Speaker 3: would honestly consider it a throwaway comment, which I understand
Speaker 3: when you're in the middle of it and when it's
Speaker 3: about you, nothing about it is ever going to feel throwaway.
Speaker 3: But it's being presented that she was doing something that
Speaker 3: to me, she really wasn't doing in that moment. And
Speaker 3: I'm also second one is she's right, stop speaking about
Speaker 3: Stop speaking about your marriage like this is there's a
Speaker 3: reason why everyone in history doesn't do that, because it's
Speaker 3: going to create so many problems for you. And also
Speaker 3: like it's one thing for her to say, oh, I'm
Speaker 3: not speaking badly about him to the kids, right, but
Speaker 3: let me tell you, dearit says her kids are really young.
Speaker 3: Jagger's eleven. That is actually not that young. Like he's
Speaker 3: gonna be able to google things.
Speaker 2: Wow, Like.
Speaker 3: He's gonna be able to google things soon. Like it's
Speaker 3: not like if not already. Like things she's saying are
Speaker 3: going to be put out there. You know, you and
Speaker 3: I both know everything gets clipped, Everything gets put in
Speaker 3: a million places and lasts forever. So everything you say
Speaker 3: could you might not be saying it directly to them,
Speaker 3: but you're saying it to millions of people. So I
Speaker 3: don't necessarily consider that to be much better.
Speaker 1: Well, and I think a lot of when you think
Speaker 1: about the kids, I think a lot about they go
Speaker 1: to school and another kid maybe like, oh my god,
Speaker 1: I heard my parents talking, or I heard my mom
Speaker 1: talking to somebody saying that your mond dad are getting
Speaker 1: a divorce, or you know, kids do that. They hear
Speaker 1: what their parents say and they go and repeat it
Speaker 1: to their friends. And so if they're not allowed to
Speaker 1: be on the internet, first of all, where there's a will,
Speaker 1: there's a way kids will get on the internet anyway.
Speaker 1: You know, my kids got Twitter when they weren't allowed to,
Speaker 1: you know, like that's what they do. So it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to protect your kids from it. So the best way,
Speaker 1: in my opinion, is to just keep it cute and
Speaker 1: mute and only talk to your friends about it and
Speaker 1: don't sort of openly blast the other person because you
Speaker 1: could end up a year down the road really getting
Speaker 1: along and the damage is done.
Speaker 2: You know, the flip side of it.
Speaker 3: But the flip side of it is also like okay,
Speaker 3: but it does make quite a good television, Like you
Speaker 3: know what I mean with these housewives, we love to
Speaker 3: be like, why aren't they sharing enough? And then they
Speaker 3: share some stuff that we don't think is like appropriate
Speaker 3: and we're like stop sharing that because it's a difficult job. Obviously,
Speaker 3: is probably being courage by production and so forth to
Speaker 3: share all this stuff about her marriage. I think there
Speaker 3: was a few seasons ago where her job was very
Speaker 3: much in the balance, and then then she separated from PEK.
Speaker 3: I think it was perhaps before she separated from PK,
Speaker 3: But I think she's probably being encouraged behind the scenes
Speaker 3: to like share, share, share, And you've also got to think,
Speaker 3: if she's in this position where she doesn't really know
Speaker 3: what's going on with her finances, how much money PK has,
Speaker 3: how much paid for this is really her big gig,
Speaker 3: Like I mean, let's be honest, Beverly Beach, if it
Speaker 3: even still exists.
Speaker 2: Is not paid. It's not paying the bills.
Speaker 3: So this is her number one earner, so she really
Speaker 3: needs to make sure that she's keeping her position. So
Speaker 3: I think sharing is probably influenced by a lot of
Speaker 3: those types of pressures as well. What did you think
Speaker 3: about her shopping. I'm interested to hear what your opinion
Speaker 3: is on this.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I've heard this about Derate. I heard
Speaker 1: Andy last year probably on his show. He had gone
Speaker 1: to I want to say Paris for something that had
Speaker 1: to do with Spotify or Serious or something. And he
Speaker 1: was there only a couple of days, and he said,
Speaker 1: I ran into durat and maybe it was Cynthia Bailey,
Speaker 1: and they went in and out of they were at
Speaker 1: the shops in Paris and they went into like Louis
Speaker 1: Vauton or Chanel or something, and he said, Durie came
Speaker 1: out with bags and bags, and he said, and that's
Speaker 1: not fake. She was buying the stuff at the store.
Speaker 1: She wasn't going on the real reel like I do.
Speaker 3: She was.
Speaker 1: She was going in a Chanelle's store coming out with bags.
Speaker 1: And he said that Cynthia or whoever was the other
Speaker 1: housewife was like, that's how she does it. So they've
Speaker 1: always known that this is how she is. And she
Speaker 1: has said over and over if she's got a head
Speaker 1: to toe Gucci outfit that she poses in for three hours,
Speaker 1: making everybody late for dinner, this is all real stuff
Speaker 1: that she bought. That is a problem when you don't
Speaker 1: have like Kathy Hilton level wealth.
Speaker 3: I've been reading the Simna's book, which, by the way,
Speaker 3: if you've not read it, and all the listeners listening
Speaker 3: I would really encourage people to read it or in
Speaker 3: what I've been doing audiobooking, because she reads it herself
Speaker 3: and she's you know, she performs it, you really get
Speaker 3: the whole experience. So I would definitely recommend it because
Speaker 3: I know it's been clipped and you know, broadcasting about
Speaker 3: a million different places. So I was sort of like,
Speaker 3: do I need to read this? I feel like I've
Speaker 3: seen so much of it already. But actually it's really interesting,
Speaker 3: especially if you're into all the sort of behind the
Speaker 3: scenes stuff with production. You know, details about who pays
Speaker 3: for what, whether Bravo pays for their union dresses and
Speaker 3: their glamor and all this other stuff. If you're into that,
Speaker 3: I would really recommend the book because it definitely peels
Speaker 3: back the curtain on a lot of the stuff behind
Speaker 3: the scenes. It's definitely much more of a memoir than
Speaker 3: it's been portrayed online. Obviously, they focus a lot on
Speaker 3: the shady things she says about, like Andy Cohen and
Speaker 3: the housewives, but there's a lot of stuff about her
Speaker 3: in there, and you do come away from it feeling
Speaker 3: like you've really gotten to know her a lot more.
Speaker 3: But yeah, one of the things she says in it
Speaker 3: is that she basically spent so much money on clothes
Speaker 3: and glam. She basically said that she spent almost her
Speaker 3: entire salary on clothes and glam, which she admitted was
Speaker 3: a very first world problem. But equally, I'm also like,
Speaker 3: to me, that just is annoying. I want to I
Speaker 3: want this to be these real women's lives, you know
Speaker 3: what I mean? Right, Like I don't like I would
Speaker 3: rather you weren't wearing a wig and like a dress
Speaker 3: that you just ought for this scene that you can't
Speaker 3: actually afford, Like I want to see your real life,
Speaker 3: like whatever that actually is. I think that they've gotten
Speaker 3: so wrapped up in that, some of the wives that
Speaker 3: they don't actually understand that. Like what what's more aspirational
Speaker 3: to us is to see them living their actual lives,
Speaker 3: not like sitting in Glam for hours for to film
Speaker 3: a scene like Boas getting Glam to basically have a
Speaker 3: dinner in that.
Speaker 2: House that they were at in Sedona.
Speaker 3: I was like, this is so ridiculous to me, Like
Speaker 3: why are you getting Glam to like sit inside a
Speaker 3: house and have a dinner that the housewives are cooking themselves?
Speaker 1: Like it was so cool, Yes to walk downstairs like yeah, it's.
Speaker 2: Just like I was like, what are you doing? This
Speaker 2: is so irritating.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I think that I would love as much
Speaker 3: as I I respect her for sharing all of those details,
Speaker 3: I would prefer if it was more like close to
Speaker 3: their real lives.
Speaker 2: But maybe that's not a realistic expectation.
Speaker 3: But I missed those days when it wasn't all about
Speaker 3: the glam squads and things like that.
Speaker 2: I think it did change the shows a little bit.
Speaker 1: I agree. And speaking of that, we have Atlanta coming back,
Speaker 1: and then we have a new show, Real Housewives of
Speaker 1: Rhode Island, which I think is funny that they just
Speaker 1: gave it the whole state instead of like a city,
Speaker 1: just just just Rhode Island. What I mean, say it again.
Speaker 3: New Jersey's estate, isn't it. It's so it's not You're right,
Speaker 3: New Jersey is the only one that sustained. And also
Speaker 3: I think it's a similar vibe. They're both very Italian
Speaker 3: as far as as far as the trailer suggests.
Speaker 1: Okay, so I was going to ask if you'd seen
Speaker 1: a preview of it, because I haven't watched it.
Speaker 3: So this is going to be really so they they've
Speaker 3: actually sent me. It's on my list of things to
Speaker 3: watch this week, but I haven't. They sent me about
Speaker 3: a week ago and I haven't gotten right to watching yet.
Speaker 3: They sent me the first two episodes, so I kind
Speaker 3: of I would be I would be like forbidden from
Speaker 3: sharing anything had I had I if I was able to,
Speaker 3: I wouldn't be able to tell you. But I think
Speaker 3: I've heard I've heard really good things from people that
Speaker 3: have seen it. I think that they seem to have
Speaker 3: from what I've heard, they seem to have stumbled across
Speaker 3: or collected a group of women who are not you
Speaker 3: know that the housewives that are very Instagram savvy and
Speaker 3: you can you know the almost I mean, Amanda is
Speaker 3: sorry to keep whacking her. That's a it's a good
Speaker 3: example for Amanda, someone who shows up very much aware
Speaker 3: of the platform, aware of everything.
Speaker 2: I think that from what I've heard, the women are
Speaker 2: quite not like that.
Speaker 3: They're quite green good, which is I think a really
Speaker 3: good sign because I think when they're less, when they're
Speaker 3: less aware of all, that the better. And that's actually
Speaker 3: a good segue to Ladies of London because one of
Speaker 3: my favorite things about Ladies of London is how a
Speaker 3: lot of the women don't seem.
Speaker 2: Like they are aware of you know, Bravo fans.
Speaker 3: They don't seem like they're like, they don't seem most
Speaker 3: of them, there are a few exceptions, don't really seem
Speaker 3: like they're very aware of the platform, which I think
Speaker 3: is partly why that show's working so well.
Speaker 1: Okay, Ladies of London. Okay, so I've got my list here.
Speaker 1: We're gonna have to go through them. So of what
Speaker 1: you just said, I would say the person that's the
Speaker 1: most aware of it is first on my list is Micah.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. I was like, please tell me she's
Speaker 2: gonna say Micah.
Speaker 3: Yes, of course. Micah's like the Amanda of Ladies of London.
Speaker 3: She's she's there, she's she's got a business, and she's
Speaker 3: going to mention it every single time she is on camera,
Speaker 3: like that her thing. Yeah, even in episode three when
Speaker 3: she was you know, they were discussing the infamous Now
Speaker 3: Dinner party where Dara left the show, which was an
Speaker 3: incredible star.
Speaker 2: They were like, you're why didn't you say anything?
Speaker 3: She was like, well, I've been raised in poise, so
Speaker 3: I just I just felt like I had to be poised.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's just another way of bringing out
Speaker 3: the business and like she's got an amazing, yeah, amazing
Speaker 3: talent for imagine to weave etiquette into like any like
Speaker 3: all Rosalie back to etiquette with with her, And I'm
Speaker 3: not gonna lie, I'm not really sure that she's the
Speaker 3: first person I would go to teach me about etiquette
Speaker 3: if I was in certainly, if I was in.
Speaker 2: London, I would pick a British person.
Speaker 3: I hope that doesn't sound prejudiced, but I just it's
Speaker 3: a little bit of an odd choice. But I think
Speaker 3: first off is more online. I'm the impression I get
Speaker 3: is that she's more teaching etiquette like from a British
Speaker 3: perspective to Americans. That's what I think is that's what
Speaker 3: I think she's doing. I think she that's what I think.
Speaker 3: I think most of her audience will be like Americans
Speaker 3: and things like that, so I guess it makes sense
Speaker 3: she's also I would say what she her look to
Speaker 3: me is like British drag. Like she she's like constantly
Speaker 3: dressed in this way that I'm like, it's like she
Speaker 3: it's like she's asked like chat gpt to like draw
Speaker 3: a kind of fancy British woman and that's how she dresses.
Speaker 3: She dresses in an extremely like it's yeah, she dresses
Speaker 3: funny to me, like every time she's got like a
Speaker 3: hat on, and I'm like, why do you always say?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just like very ott.
Speaker 3: Even when she's going to meet Dara for that coffee
Speaker 3: she was dressed like ridiculed. That was like a sort
Speaker 3: of just like a sort of casual coffee shop. She
Speaker 3: was dressed to the nines.
Speaker 2: It was yeah, that was my note.
Speaker 1: When I was taking my notes, I was like, where,
Speaker 1: in the words of Tim Gunn from Project run Away,
Speaker 1: where is this girl going? Why is she in a
Speaker 1: strapless tuxedo style jumpsuit to go to a coffee shop?
Speaker 1: And her friend's like in a cotton dress you know
Speaker 1: it made And then the hat. I was like, where
Speaker 1: are you? Are you going to a dinner after this?
Speaker 1: What are you doing?
Speaker 2: Side note?
Speaker 3: So I was like shocked that we saw Dara again
Speaker 3: because when she appeared, I was like, oh, it was
Speaker 3: like jump scared because so.
Speaker 2: What I want to know? I really want to know.
Speaker 3: What happened here. So my understanding is, so if you
Speaker 3: watch the show I'm not sure if everyone's aware of this,
Speaker 3: but it looks to me like they've edited her audition
Speaker 3: tape and just put a confessional backdrop on it, because
Speaker 3: her confessionals are really different lighting and looks kind of
Speaker 3: weird compared to other people's in the first two episodes,
Speaker 3: and I think that they've like and most of it
Speaker 3: is her talking about like her you know, Beatrice, and
Speaker 3: sort of background stuff. It's not her commentating on a
Speaker 3: specific situation during that dinner. We didn't see any confessionals
Speaker 3: of her saying her perspective on the dinner, So I
Speaker 3: think what happened is she quit and then just refused
Speaker 3: to film confessionals, and then they had to edit her
Speaker 3: audition tape in as kind of in place of her confessionals.
Speaker 3: But I really want to know is how they got
Speaker 3: her back for that scene, because I'm assuming that she quit,
Speaker 3: so I want to know what went on behind the
Speaker 3: scenes to convince her to come back to film that
Speaker 3: coffee shop scene, which was like, by the way, ridiculous,
Speaker 3: like it was like gaslighting. One oh one that caught
Speaker 3: that scene. I was like, you're not the victim here, Like,
Speaker 3: what on earth are you talking about?
Speaker 1: Like I felt. Yes. I think they probably were like,
Speaker 1: you know, on the show, you need to be able
Speaker 1: to you need to be able to give your point
Speaker 1: of view, So why not will you film this one
Speaker 1: last coffee just to get your point of view out
Speaker 1: there so that the viewers know your side. So she
Speaker 1: agreed to it, and then she said, I'm going in
Speaker 1: and I'm going to stick to my story. And when
Speaker 1: Micah said, had like, imagine how I felt, and she said,
Speaker 1: imagine how I felt? What what it was? Everything she said?
Speaker 1: When we recapped it, we were like, what, No, this
Speaker 1: is a girl that we almost need on the show
Speaker 1: because she's so delulu. But and it was interesting at
Speaker 1: that dinner that she brought those people with her who
Speaker 1: were like I met her on the internet. She brings
Speaker 1: women together, were like, did they edited like this or
Speaker 1: is that really? You know?
Speaker 2: Also, it's kind of weird side note, very strange. I
Speaker 2: mean one of them described herself as a fan fan.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think of her work, well, you know, one
Speaker 3: of the sort of her backup people.
Speaker 2: So it's a little weird to bring up a.
Speaker 3: Fan to to dinner like or someone that you don't
Speaker 3: even I mean, I didn't get the impression they knew
Speaker 3: each other particularly well, No, it's a little od I
Speaker 3: will say. Side note, my boyfriend is an architect and
Speaker 3: he did tell me that she is very successful and
Speaker 3: well known in so her that whole thing wasn't I was.
Speaker 3: You know, with these people, sometimes it's be like, oh,
Speaker 3: do you own an architecture practice or do you just
Speaker 3: like do interior design as you know, you know, sometimes
Speaker 3: you're like, how much is smoking mirrors on these reality shows?
Speaker 3: Like how successful is this person?
Speaker 1: Actually?
Speaker 2: So apparently she is the real deal in the architecture business,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 3: She really reminded me of She really reminds me of
Speaker 3: Rebecca Minkoff from the Real Housewives of New York reboot,
Speaker 3: someone who showed up and clearly has never really watched
Speaker 3: reality TV, doesn't really understand what actual work that's involved,
Speaker 3: and thinks that they're just going to be able to
Speaker 3: mention their brand on a show and it's going to
Speaker 3: be massively successful.
Speaker 2: She clearly just.
Speaker 3: Had no idea what was expected of her, And in
Speaker 3: some ways I'm a bit like, okay, fair enough for
Speaker 3: actually quitting, Like I'm glad that she didn't drag on
Speaker 3: for the whole season when she's clearly not suited to it.
Speaker 3: By the way, side note, have you did you ever
Speaker 3: watch sex?
Speaker 2: Did you watch Sex in the City of course? Yes?
Speaker 2: So foundational text. So you know the episode where Carrie
Speaker 2: gets her.
Speaker 3: Shoes stolen at that at the party and then the
Speaker 3: Minilablonnis and she it's this whole tense thing about her
Speaker 3: asking the host to pay for the shoes that someone
Speaker 3: stole because she asked her to take them off, and the.
Speaker 2: Host is like really awkward about it.
Speaker 3: There's a scene where Carrie phones her up and she's like,
Speaker 3: I feel really weird about what happened the other day.
Speaker 3: That was a really awkward conversation. We've been friends for
Speaker 3: a long time. And she's like, Oh, I don't really
Speaker 3: totally forgotten about it. You were you were thinking about that,
Speaker 3: and it really reminded me of that when they went
Speaker 3: to the coffee shop together and Michael was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I've been really you know, like stressed for Dan or
Speaker 3: feeling really bad about what happened the last time we
Speaker 3: saw each other, and she was like really like like
Speaker 3: it was no big deal, Like yeah, you have like
Speaker 3: like that's almost like the worst thing you can do
Speaker 3: to someone. Like make them feel like they're ridiculous for
Speaker 3: having ridiculous for caring about your relationship. Like I think
Speaker 3: that's probably the worst thing, the worst you can make
Speaker 3: somebody feel.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like the opposite of love is not hate,
Speaker 1: it's indifference. And that's how she acts to her, Like
Speaker 1: what I haven't thought twice about it? And you're like,
Speaker 1: you went off camera and said I said those things.
Speaker 1: And then basically she said to Micah, I mean I
Speaker 1: didn't say those things too, missy, but she could have
Speaker 1: overheard them. Okay, well then you said them, and then
Speaker 1: it was It was such a back and forth that
Speaker 1: I think at the very least, Micah walked away going like, Okay,
Speaker 1: like this has been our whole relationship, but my eyes
Speaker 1: are just now opening because we're on television, you know,
Speaker 1: thank god.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And also like this this is actually dynamic that
Speaker 3: we see often on housewives and other shows where one
Speaker 3: person is like we're best friends and the other person
Speaker 3: is like we're acquaintances or like we're not good friends,
Speaker 3: like you know, and we all experience it sometimes in
Speaker 3: our own lives as well, where someone there's a disconnecting
Speaker 3: where people think, like how serious the friendship is or
Speaker 3: how close the friendship is, because some people have one
Speaker 3: hundred friends and some people have five, and then those
Speaker 3: friendships are of different value to different people. And it's
Speaker 3: like to Reat and Kyle, I think is a good
Speaker 3: example of to clearly placed Kyle way closer in her
Speaker 3: friendship circle than she was in Kyle's. And yes, that
Speaker 3: level of honestly, let's be honest, a little bit of
Speaker 3: delusion in Deret's case, I think has created a deeper
Speaker 3: chasm in their relationship, which I think is there's something
Speaker 3: similar going on with these two where yeah, Mike obviously
Speaker 3: considered Dour to be like a best friend, and.
Speaker 2: I don't think that was reciprocated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I yeah, I do think you have to
Speaker 3: have a certain level of like obliviousness to not realize that.
Speaker 3: I think that's like, it's a sense of reading the
Speaker 3: It's a social skill to be able to sort of
Speaker 3: ascertain whether you and a friend are like sort of
Speaker 3: you know, caring about each other the same and positioning
Speaker 3: each other the same. I think that's something that we
Speaker 3: all kind of extinctively do with our friends. So I
Speaker 3: think to get that very wrong, you have to have
Speaker 3: a certain sense of tunnel vision and delusion about you,
Speaker 3: which Dewe and Mike I think both do share. They're
Speaker 3: not the most self aware, are they. So I think
Speaker 3: you have to be someone that's very much like about
Speaker 3: thinking quite single mindedly, I think, to not realize that
Speaker 3: and actually come to think of it, there is a
Speaker 3: certain sense that I think, I mean, I'm putting words
Speaker 3: in Kyle's martheus. This is just my opinion, but I
Speaker 3: think there might have been a part of Kyle that
Speaker 3: was a little bit embarrassed of Derete around her kind
Speaker 3: of new friends, like you know, the Morgan friends, the
Speaker 3: friends that she gets up at four am and works
Speaker 3: out with and goes on mountain hikes and does sound
Speaker 3: baths with and all the rest of it. When she
Speaker 3: was going through her separation, there was a sense of
Speaker 3: embarrassment between that Dara felt towards Micah, like a kind
Speaker 3: of I.
Speaker 2: Don't want to be a yeah, cringe yeah. And I
Speaker 2: think maybe there were There.
Speaker 3: Was one time where Kyle explained a situation where they
Speaker 3: went for a hike. She went for a hike with
Speaker 3: her friends and dereit was like on the side of
Speaker 3: the road, like panting after like like a sort of
Speaker 3: my can imagine maybe Kyle was cringed a little bit.
Speaker 3: There's a certain level of cringe that I could imagine
Speaker 3: her feeling.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, Well, all right, let's next talk about
Speaker 1: Missy or as we say, miss A. Okay, and tell
Speaker 1: me as we're going if, as a brit if you
Speaker 1: know of any of these people, because miss A apparently,
Speaker 1: well she's she's, you know, in her forties, she's got
Speaker 1: these two kids. She was with a famous footballer, and
Speaker 1: then she was with this other guy. They keep going
Speaker 1: Jake Hall. I was like, is this supposed to be
Speaker 1: like Harry Styles? Are we supposed to know who this
Speaker 1: guy is?
Speaker 3: No? Okay, so miss I do know. So going into
Speaker 3: the show, I knew two of the stars. Well, so,
Speaker 3: Mark Francis was on a show called Made in Chelsea, which, yes,
Speaker 3: of like a British version of the Hills, except it's
Speaker 3: set in Chelsea, which is a very sort of old
Speaker 3: money posh area in London, in West London, and it's
Speaker 3: basically yes, the romantic, the chaos, romantic and friendship lives
Speaker 3: of a group of young people. It premiered I think
Speaker 3: in twenty eleven and it's still on television now, but
Speaker 3: he's not on it anymore. Mark Francis definitely played the
Speaker 3: kind of Kathy Hilton Jennifer Tilly role on that show,
Speaker 3: the person who says ridiculous rich person things. There's whole
Speaker 3: sort of reels on you know, highlight things on YouTube
Speaker 3: of ridiculous things that Mark Francis has said, so a
Speaker 3: similar role to how he's playing here.
Speaker 2: But I would say he's a lot more of.
Speaker 3: The Greek Chorus kind of narrator on this show so far,
Speaker 3: and we've already seen him have more a little bit
Speaker 3: more personal like things about his father, which I've never
Speaker 3: seen on his previous show, So he's definitely divulging a
Speaker 3: little bit more about his personal lives so far.
Speaker 2: He's playing a sort of narrator role.
Speaker 3: Miss Ay I also knew because Missy was on a
Speaker 3: show called Real Housewives of Chess Show in the UK, Yeah,
Speaker 3: which was our first British housewives show and it's still
Speaker 3: on television now.
Speaker 2: Cheshire is basically put it's a place in the north
Speaker 2: of England. It's kind of a mixture of new and
Speaker 2: old money.
Speaker 3: It's where a lot of soccer players, so we have
Speaker 3: these big teams called like Liverpool and Manchester United, which
Speaker 3: are sort of big football teams in the in the
Speaker 3: north of England.
Speaker 1: We're Arsenal fans in our house.
Speaker 3: Okay, so you guys London, so yes, but that's sort
Speaker 3: of the other very big teams. But the northern teams,
Speaker 3: a lot of the football players live in these mansions
Speaker 3: in Cheshire. So the Cheshire housewives, a lot of them
Speaker 3: were married to footballers or soccer players football as we
Speaker 3: call them here wags. So miss ay I first met
Speaker 3: her a long time ago because she was on that
Speaker 3: show for about three or four seasons.
Speaker 2: She wasn't an og or anything.
Speaker 3: I'd say she was kind of like a Megan King
Speaker 3: Edmunds character, like a younger a younger housewife who came
Speaker 3: in for like three or four seasons and shook things up.
Speaker 3: And she was That was when she was married to
Speaker 3: her husband, who was the football player, the soccer player
Speaker 3: who she has a son with, and he's from I
Speaker 3: think he's lives in Copenhagen with her son.
Speaker 1: Now, yes, I need to know I need more about that, Yes, Copenhagen.
Speaker 3: Right, So they actually got divorced on Real Housewives of
Speaker 3: Cheshire so I watched her go through her divorce. Then
Speaker 3: she left that show and she had this whirlwind romance
Speaker 3: with this man called Jake Hall.
Speaker 2: Who. So there's this other reality show called The Only Way.
Speaker 3: Is Essex in the UK, which is kind of like again,
Speaker 3: it's a structured reality show like The Hills, but it's
Speaker 3: set in Essex, which is kind of It's sort.
Speaker 2: Of like La but a little bit more tacky.
Speaker 3: It's on maybe like a cross between La and Jersey,
Speaker 3: which is kind of a weird.
Speaker 2: It's like a weird thing to imagine.
Speaker 3: It's like it's tacky but glamorous, very you know, people
Speaker 3: have white range rovers and you know, big houses with
Speaker 3: gates and things like the very white teeth, immaculately flow
Speaker 3: dried hair.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd say it's like a mixture between La and Jersey.
Speaker 3: That's probably a good way of putting it. It was
Speaker 3: a reality show and he was on that and he
Speaker 3: was kind of like a bad boy, So he was
Speaker 3: like almost like justin Bobby or something like a like
Speaker 3: a heartbreaker, a bad boy, total opposite to her previous husband,
Speaker 3: who I think was more dependent, like you know, had
Speaker 3: a steady job and was you know, Danish and quite
Speaker 3: reserved as far as I remember this, Jake guy was
Speaker 3: like completely different. So they had a very kind of
Speaker 3: whirlwind romance. And I actually, I mean, if I'm not
Speaker 3: I think that she ended up getting a restraining order
Speaker 3: out on him. I think that it got quite dark.
Speaker 3: I think that they they'd had a daughter together, and yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it got very tumultuous and quite dark. So
Speaker 3: so I knew her already, so she Whi's interesting though,
Speaker 3: isn't it. In the first three episodes, Mark Francis is
Speaker 3: definitely emerged as the narrator and Missay is the one
Speaker 3: who's moving the story along. So she is like, oh,
Speaker 3: she said this about her, I need to bring it
Speaker 3: up at the dinner. Oh, let's all go around the
Speaker 3: table and share things that have happened to us. She's
Speaker 3: doing the sort of housewifery of all. So it's interesting
Speaker 3: that the two people that are it wassible for, you know,
Speaker 3: telling us, narrating the story and then also creating the
Speaker 3: story are the two people that have already been on
Speaker 3: shows before, so they're using that experience to to move
Speaker 3: the narrative along.
Speaker 1: These are very good points that I hadn't thought of.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, but but it makes sense, right, Like if
Speaker 3: you've done a show before, you know, Missy's been a
Speaker 3: real housewife, albeit in Cheshire, it's not Beverly Hills. But
Speaker 3: she knows that you have to go to the dinner
Speaker 3: and you have to say the thing. You know, that's
Speaker 3: a basic it's the basic thing of housewife Mary. Right.
Speaker 3: You wait until you're all at the dinner table to
Speaker 3: say the big bombshell, like Dery in this week's episode
Speaker 3: when Amanda kept being.
Speaker 2: Like, Derry, can we can we talk?
Speaker 3: And she's like, if you've got something to say, you
Speaker 3: can say it to dinner, basically like I want to,
Speaker 3: I want an audience. Well, while you say, you have
Speaker 3: to do when all the cameras are ready. So yeah,
Speaker 3: that's that's interesting. What did you think about I'm so
Speaker 3: interested in your opinion on the Kimmi of it all,
Speaker 3: the sharing circle and her reaction to it, which I
Speaker 3: thought was so fascinating on like a lot of different levels.
Speaker 3: I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts on it.
Speaker 1: Well, our thoughts were Missy, who we got miss a.
Speaker 1: Missy says we're going to go around and share something,
Speaker 1: but she didn't go first to set the tone of like,
Speaker 1: we're going to actually tell something really deep. You know,
Speaker 1: They sort of like, am I, how do you feel about,
Speaker 1: you know, being in charge of this fabulous house and
Speaker 1: being a marchioness and all this, And then you know,
Speaker 1: nobody said you know, And then Martha did say the
Speaker 1: thing about her sister and the thing about when Missy
Speaker 1: told the story about her brother. You know, we were
Speaker 1: all like, oh my god. Now, of course, when you
Speaker 1: hear somebody's gun down in the street, especially somewhere like
Speaker 1: London where gun violence is not an everyday thing, my
Speaker 1: first thought was, oh, well he was doing some shady shit.
Speaker 1: But I was like, it will reveal itself. And then
Speaker 1: when they get in the car and Kimmy's like, oh,
Speaker 1: I just hate this, Like you have to fake go
Speaker 1: around and share stuff. It seems disingenuous and who cares,
Speaker 1: Like obviously it was drug related. I remember the story
Speaker 1: and Margo and Martha saying, hey, it doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: it happened. She lost her brother, like this is terrible,
Speaker 1: and her sort of brushing it off. Well, our whole
Speaker 1: thing was okay. Well, now Kimmy is even more interesting
Speaker 1: to us because she obviously has been through such dark
Speaker 1: shit in her life that she can't for one minute
Speaker 1: drop this fun girl facade of like give me a
Speaker 1: drink and on body. She can't drop any of it
Speaker 1: for five minutes to have some empathy towards someone to
Speaker 1: be like, I remember when that story came out. I
Speaker 1: do think it was drug related. That's terrible. I'm so
Speaker 1: sorry for Missy. Instead of just being like, oh God,
Speaker 1: who cares, it's another druggie on the street and you're like, whoa,
Speaker 1: she's gonna see you saying this like awful, it was
Speaker 1: very upsetting. I'm kind of obsessed with Gimmy.
Speaker 3: By the way, I completely agree and I totally sa
Speaker 3: I co signed everything you just said. I think the
Speaker 3: For me, it was fascinating because of how much we
Speaker 3: learned about Kimmy.
Speaker 2: It revealed she know she didn't reveal something at the table,
Speaker 2: but she.
Speaker 3: Revealed a lot with her reaction to what was revealed
Speaker 3: at the table, yes, which was completely I was like,
Speaker 3: but I will say Kimmy is definitely she is American,
Speaker 3: but I would honestly fully say as a British person,
Speaker 3: she is like very assimilated to like, like her accent,
Speaker 3: her accent, is like what Dar thought she sounded like,
Speaker 3: but do sounded just like an American person doing a
Speaker 3: fake British accent. Kimmy's is what an actual Transatlantic accent
Speaker 3: sounds like. Like I would have to ask her where
Speaker 3: she's from, because I wouldn't quite.
Speaker 2: She speaks so British a lot, she.
Speaker 1: Does, and some some words sound very you know, American,
Speaker 1: and then other words we keep reminding ourselves that she
Speaker 1: is actually American, and they put the little flag next
Speaker 1: to their name, which is helpful.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but in her life story that she did say
Speaker 3: she was in America for the first maybe like twelve
Speaker 3: until she was about twelve, I think, and then she
Speaker 3: did move to Haiti, and then I think ince, then
Speaker 3: she's lived in London, so she's lived in London more
Speaker 3: than any other place she's lived, and she's not lived
Speaker 3: in America I think for forty years or something.
Speaker 2: So I think, yeah, to me, she's like, she's definitely.
Speaker 3: An honorary brit Like I think she should have an
Speaker 3: American slash British on her little thing because I think
Speaker 3: but interesting, So I was thinking like, oh, that's it's
Speaker 3: a very British reaction to be like, oh, it's a
Speaker 3: sob story. Who cares about? Who cares about your feelings?
Speaker 3: Like put them away in a box. But I think
Speaker 3: it's definitely informed by, you know, what she's been through.
Speaker 3: I think it was edited so beautifully that episode actually,
Speaker 3: because we got to see Kimmy's story and then juxtaposed
Speaker 3: with how unsympathetic she was being. Seeing those two things in,
Speaker 3: you know, one after the other was like, oh, we
Speaker 3: really understand. You know, it takes a lot of skill
Speaker 3: to capture someone like that. I think that they really
Speaker 3: captured her hard as nails. But also we now know
Speaker 3: that there's something really deep within there even if she
Speaker 3: had shared it with us, and I think her daughter
Speaker 3: as well, Like when we see her with her daughter,
Speaker 3: you know, that's really hard, Like that's really hard. She's
Speaker 3: probably thinking, I've been through stuff. You know, my parents divorced.
Speaker 3: My mom was a mess. I had to move to
Speaker 3: an entire different country with an entire different culture. I've
Speaker 3: got divorced. My daughter's on the spectrum. She's probably thinking like,
Speaker 3: who are you to be sharing your thing? Like thinking,
Speaker 3: But I will say I agree with you, even if
Speaker 3: it was drug related, I don't know the story no
Speaker 3: matter what the reason is.
Speaker 2: That's not Miss's fault.
Speaker 3: That's it's neither here nor there to me, whether like
Speaker 3: whether it was drug related or what was going on. Ultimately,
Speaker 3: she presumably had to get a call on Christmas.
Speaker 2: Day telling her that her brother had been shot in
Speaker 2: front of his child.
Speaker 3: I mean, yes, that's an unbelievably awful thing for no
Speaker 3: matter what the situation, for anybody to experience. I will
Speaker 3: say though, I did see Kimye's point a little bit,
Speaker 3: not not relating to the you know anything about Miss story,
Speaker 3: but just that the the sort of situation of sitting
Speaker 3: around a table and eat sharing something, it didn't necessarily
Speaker 3: feel supernatural to me. It felt It's definitely felt you know,
Speaker 3: contrived in some ways. And you know, Kimmi is obviously
Speaker 3: someone that takes a long time to open up to people.
Speaker 3: She probably has amazing friend like lifelong friends that she
Speaker 3: barely opens up to. So she's she's not going to
Speaker 3: tell these people that she's just met in what she'll
Speaker 3: probably be consider being like a work capacity.
Speaker 2: A lot of them.
Speaker 3: She's not gonna tell them her trauma straight straight off
Speaker 3: the gate. Other people do, I think, you know, everyone
Speaker 3: opens up differently and that type of forum is not
Speaker 3: going to be the place for everyone to open up,
Speaker 3: so you can't equally, you can't judge someone for not
Speaker 3: wanting to share something that deep around the dinner table.
Speaker 1: Well, what do you think about our Sonia Morgan of
Speaker 1: the cast Martha God bless that apartment makes me so
Speaker 1: it gives, it gives Morgan manner. It is like the
Speaker 1: bird poop everywhere, like what are we doing? What are
Speaker 1: we doing? And she just she looked like, physically looks
Speaker 1: like somebody from Madmen, right. She looks like she has
Speaker 1: my mother's hairstyle from the sixties when my mom was
Speaker 1: in her twenties and looked like she was fifty five.
Speaker 1: You know, she's just very old fashioned Martha. And we
Speaker 1: find out she's had this series of you know, marriages
Speaker 1: and then divorced and then she only got to keep
Speaker 1: her title, which, like a title is not going to
Speaker 1: pay your rent. I'm fascinated by Martha and also a
Speaker 1: little worried at the same time. You know, she just
Speaker 1: when Margot was like, I can't be friends with you
Speaker 1: anymore if you're going to keep doing this dumb shit
Speaker 1: like meeting a stranger in the park, and inviting them
Speaker 1: to your home when you literally had to move last
Speaker 1: time because you had a stalker, Like what's wrong with you?
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Okay, So, first of all, I'm so glad you said
Speaker 3: the Sonya Morgan comparison, because I was I was going
Speaker 3: to I'm here to say that exact same thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: been with the you know, the stuff in storage. It
Speaker 3: reminded me so much of that scene with Derinda and
Speaker 3: Sonya when they went down to her basement and Sonya
Speaker 3: had like three vacuum cleaners and a fax machine and
Speaker 3: like all this stuff from all the stuff from like
Speaker 3: the seventies basically, and Derinda was like, just get rid
Speaker 3: of all this stuff, like and then Sonya obviously started crying,
Speaker 3: and it really reminded me of that.
Speaker 2: It was such a similar scene.
Speaker 3: And yeah, you're right, she does look like someone from
Speaker 3: another time, from another era. I will say, I've not
Speaker 3: with the exact same circumstances, obviously, but I've met quite
Speaker 3: a lot.
Speaker 2: Of British women like her.
Speaker 3: She is a sort of a woman that does exist
Speaker 3: in that sort of world, a posh woman who has
Speaker 3: lived life, you know, sort of quite tumultuously in parts,
Speaker 3: because I think she knows that there'll always be a
Speaker 3: net to catch her.
Speaker 1: A man will come along.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the man, her family, her connection, like there's always
Speaker 3: going to be someone there to you know, the British
Speaker 3: opper classes, basically, they're very well connected.
Speaker 2: It's always like, oh, why don't.
Speaker 3: You just come spend the summer in my house in
Speaker 3: santra Fey, Like she's probably always had people like that
Speaker 3: around her, like, oh, you know, I.
Speaker 2: Even know where she just lived. Just come come stay
Speaker 2: in my house for like three months.
Speaker 1: Like it's very that, so very Sonya Morgan.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 3: No, it's very Sony Morgan, except I think this woman
Speaker 3: it's a little different because so this woman was already
Speaker 3: well to do before she married her husband. You know,
Speaker 3: Martha's posh. She rides horses, she goes on grauge shooting weekends.
Speaker 3: She's like got a riding hat in her storage. You know,
Speaker 3: she's she's a quintessentially posh woman. So, as far as
Speaker 3: I'm aware, Sonya Morgan was, you know, just like from
Speaker 3: Connecticut or something like, I don't think she grew up.
Speaker 3: I don't think she grew up with loads of money
Speaker 3: or I think, yeah, that's still shay to Sonia. That's
Speaker 3: we all come from where we come from. But so
Speaker 3: Martha is still when Sonia. I think partly why Sonya's
Speaker 3: divorce was so something she could never let go of
Speaker 3: is because it really was it was like her access
Speaker 3: to that world, you know, the status that she was
Speaker 3: accustomed to. She lost that as well, which honestly, I
Speaker 3: think she was more upset about that than equally as
Speaker 3: upset about that. I think it was all rolled into one.
Speaker 3: I don't get the sense that Martha's entire She's lost money,
Speaker 3: but she's not lost her entire world or her you know,
Speaker 3: the people that she socializes with and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I'm not getting that impression from her. But she's also
Speaker 3: someone who, you know, I'm gonna say I loved Margo's reaction.
Speaker 3: I was saying that exact thing as I was watching it,
Speaker 3: and in the first two episodes, I was like, I'm
Speaker 3: not sure about the American cast members because quite a
Speaker 3: lot of them seem to have just moved to London.
Speaker 2: Recently, which is a shame.
Speaker 3: And obviously Kimmy, as I would say, she's sort of
Speaker 3: honorary Brits, so I'm not talking about her here, but
Speaker 3: they seem quite green to London. But Margo is interesting
Speaker 3: because she did live in London and now she's coming
Speaker 3: back here.
Speaker 2: But also I really like she's.
Speaker 3: One of the people that I think is she's being
Speaker 3: as direct as you really can be on the reality show.
Speaker 3: And I really actually respected her a lot for her reaction,
Speaker 3: because honestly, Martha needs someone to she needs to be
Speaker 3: told that you can't be going around like this.
Speaker 2: You're forty five years old. Why are you giving your
Speaker 2: keys to random guys? Is that you know? When she
Speaker 2: asked her like did you see any of his previous work?
Speaker 2: Did you get any recommendations from did you google him?
Speaker 2: Like did you do any any diligence? And she's like no,
Speaker 2: like it kind of beggars belief.
Speaker 3: But with that same that's kind of also how she's Sonya,
Speaker 3: because we always used to see Sonya doing these things,
Speaker 3: like you know, investing in these things or like Tipsy Girl,
Speaker 3: or like doing these you know, businesses that we knew
Speaker 3: were like kind of not real or like not going
Speaker 3: to work out things like that, and we spend a
Speaker 3: lot of our time watching Sonya being like no, Sonya,
Speaker 3: like don't do that. So I think there's a similar
Speaker 3: sense of vulnerability, but also and procurity and the fact
Speaker 3: that we're rooting for them to make different decisions that
Speaker 3: I think they're very, very similar. And yeah, like a
Speaker 3: kind of great gardens quality as well, right, like the.
Speaker 1: Very great gardens that house you have to go soon.
Speaker 1: So let me just ask you really quickly. The thing
Speaker 1: about Emma is interesting to US Americans because you know,
Speaker 1: we're always told the Megan Markele of it all. She
Speaker 1: was the first you know, black woman to marry in
Speaker 1: So my thought is, well, Megan Markle married into the monarchy,
Speaker 1: but it seems like Emma has married into aristocracy, and
Speaker 1: that is maybe different.
Speaker 2: So these two things are both true.
Speaker 3: Megan Markle was the first person, the first black woman
Speaker 3: and I believe the first woman of color in the
Speaker 3: Royal family, which is okay, I mean they're above the aristocracy,
Speaker 3: so but Emma was the first. So saying so the role,
Speaker 3: it's like the royal family in aristocracy, but the royal
Speaker 3: family is like you're like the top tier of the cake,
Speaker 3: but they're in this sort of same cake. Right, So
Speaker 3: the further time you go, so when Emma married and
Speaker 3: she was like the first woman of color.
Speaker 2: In the whole cake.
Speaker 3: Okay, but then when Megan married and she was the
Speaker 3: first one to call in the top tier of the cake.
Speaker 3: So Megan made history in her own way. But Emma
Speaker 3: also was the first one in the whole cake whatsoever.
Speaker 3: So they're both history makers in different ways. But yeah,
Speaker 3: if Megan was to say she was the first in
Speaker 3: the whole aristocracy in the whole Cake, that would not
Speaker 3: be true. She's definitely only only the top tier of
Speaker 3: the cake, but it's a you know, it's the top tier,
Speaker 3: so it's a it's a bigger deal. But Emma is
Speaker 3: also I will say she's real. Like that Longly is
Speaker 3: really famous, like in the UK.
Speaker 1: I've heard of it. I've heard of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, beautiful, it's got a safari park. It's an amazing
Speaker 3: day out, Like it's the sort of place that like
Speaker 3: loads and like millions of people in the UK's it's
Speaker 3: kind of like, I mean, it's not the same essentral part,
Speaker 3: but like it's it's like a big attraction for people
Speaker 3: to go to. So that family are like the real
Speaker 3: deal like I was when in the season premiere when
Speaker 3: she came on and started explaining her history. I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: this is like really impressive, like the cast that they
Speaker 3: because I wasn't sure how they were gonna, you know,
Speaker 3: what the cast was going to be like really, but yeah,
Speaker 3: when she started telling her story, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: this is really impressive. So but she's a little quiet
Speaker 3: so far. I'm looking forward to seeing maybe a little
Speaker 3: more from her. She seems to have been absent from
Speaker 3: some of the events and or turning up you know, late,
Speaker 3: and things like that, because she's probably got prior commitments.
Speaker 3: So I'm hoping that we get to see a little
Speaker 3: bit more and like that she'll take us more behind
Speaker 3: the scenes of that whole lineage, because because it is
Speaker 3: a really interesting story.
Speaker 1: I thought it was very interesting, and I did like
Speaker 1: when Kimmy and Emma and Mark Francis were at sketch
Speaker 1: where it's I was like, I've been to sketch, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And they were in sketch and they were kind of
Speaker 1: joking about the Madame rumor and I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: and Kimmy goes shut up, it's funny, and I was
Speaker 1: like that. I think because normally Emma, if the cameras
Speaker 1: want on her, would be like, oh my God, tell
Speaker 1: me the tea about the madam. But because the cameras
Speaker 1: were there, and she does have a title she has
Speaker 1: to live up to, you know that she can't maybe
Speaker 1: get quite in the mud with her friends with the
Speaker 1: cameras there. That's the idea.
Speaker 3: I need to say something about this madam thing. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: madam in the UK it means like diva. So if
Speaker 3: I was to say you're being a madam, it would
Speaker 3: be like, oh, she's being demanding, she's being a diva.
Speaker 3: So what I think has happened is that someone has
Speaker 3: said it about her like oh, she's a she's a diva,
Speaker 3: demanding woman, and then it's been maybe heard by an
Speaker 3: American or herd by someone that didn't get that translation,
Speaker 3: and then it's taken on a life of its own.
Speaker 2: That's what I think happened here, because.
Speaker 3: Yeah, madam means like you're kind of bossy, like diva
Speaker 3: if you're calling if you were calling someone a madam,
Speaker 3: it'd be like, oh, yes, she's boss, she's diva. She's
Speaker 3: rude to wait staff, she's like you know that sort
Speaker 3: of character. So what, yeah, what I think has happened
Speaker 3: is it's a it's a it's a lost in translation,
Speaker 3: and then someone said it, and then it's just taken
Speaker 3: on a whole life because let's be honest, it is
Speaker 3: a fun rumor. So yes, I think that's what's happened.
Speaker 3: And also, I mean the Beatrice connection is obviously interesting
Speaker 3: in that it's interesting in that, I say, but yes,
Speaker 3: it's a shame that we It was a shame to
Speaker 3: lose her, I think because she was kind of, you know,
Speaker 3: did have potential villain villain villain potential, which is probably
Speaker 3: she probably realized she was getting cast, like she was
Speaker 3: going to be editing in that way, and then you know,
Speaker 3: flew the flew the next But I think that the
Speaker 3: cast are really interesting.
Speaker 2: I love that they have existing friendships.
Speaker 3: I love the as you mentioned earlier, there's women that
Speaker 3: have lived a life. You know, Martha's forty five, like
Speaker 3: that's actually she's she's still a young woman, but she's
Speaker 3: she's lived like seven lives in that time. Even Miss
Speaker 3: Ay like having a husband and being on another show
Speaker 3: and then having another and then you know, being.
Speaker 2: A model like she's she's also lived several lives.
Speaker 3: Like I think that they've managed to find women that
Speaker 3: have their own history, that have baggage that have, you know,
Speaker 3: things that they make them feel vulnerable and things that
Speaker 3: they want to say on the show. I think that
Speaker 3: they've done a really good job with the casting. I've
Speaker 3: got a lot of love for this show already.
Speaker 1: Me too. I'm obsessed with it. And normally I don't
Speaker 1: cover Bravo shows sort of one by one. I just
Speaker 1: do Thursdays I talk about everything that's on. But with
Speaker 1: this one, we had a slot on Mondays that was open,
Speaker 1: and I was like, let's put it in, Like we
Speaker 1: had no idea if it was going to be good,
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad we did because I've told everybody.
Speaker 1: I was like, you got to watch it. It's Housewives
Speaker 1: esque but different enough. And I love that they've got
Speaker 1: Mark Francis on as a male on the cast. I
Speaker 1: love that because I think there's plenty of Housewives shows
Speaker 1: where they could have, you know, a male gay best
Speaker 1: friend that literally is in their circles and does everything
Speaker 1: with them, and I think that would be a little
Speaker 1: bit more real life. And so I like that Mark
Speaker 1: Francis is on, and I like that he has a
Speaker 1: double name, like Mark Francis, like Mary Payne.
Speaker 2: I have one thing to say.
Speaker 3: Actually, so, I think that what's interesting to me is
Speaker 3: that there seems to be maybe this is just projection,
Speaker 3: but I feel like I sense this real interest in
Speaker 3: British culture right now from Americans. You know, You've got
Speaker 3: like Charlie XCX, Harry Styles, Ladies of London. Also everywhere
Speaker 3: I go in London at the moment, there's loads of
Speaker 3: Americans visiting. Like, I don't know, I just feel like
Speaker 3: there's like a real interest in even celebrities like going
Speaker 3: to the Cotswalls like Can Karajun and Lewis Hamilton are
Speaker 3: allegedly having secret dates there the whole time.
Speaker 1: Ooh yeah.
Speaker 2: Like I'm just sensing this kind of interest in.
Speaker 3: Maybe this is like wishful thinking, but it feeds into
Speaker 3: this wider thing at the moment where I feel like
Speaker 3: there's a kind of like anglifhile vibe happening and I
Speaker 3: don't know what it means. I don't know why it's happening,
Speaker 3: but I feel like it's happening.
Speaker 1: Well, I will tell you that my producer Ingrid, who
Speaker 1: the listeners know her daughter, is in London right now
Speaker 1: doing a semester abroad, and in Ingrid's going over in
Speaker 1: April for you know, a week or two, and she
Speaker 1: just got an airbnb and was like, I'll just you know,
Speaker 1: live there for a week. And so I'm going to
Speaker 1: tell her to contact you to get all the all
Speaker 1: the things to do that might be off the beaten path,
Speaker 1: because everybody's always trying to find something different. Like when
Speaker 1: we went to London, my husband had been and we
Speaker 1: took the kids and they had not been, so we
Speaker 1: wanted to do things like go to sketch. We wanted
Speaker 1: to go to the Tower of London and things like that.
Speaker 1: But then we also had one day where we had
Speaker 1: a guide take us around and we got to see
Speaker 1: different things and he told us so many interesting different
Speaker 1: things we didn't know. And I think that's the way
Speaker 1: to do it, to get somebody who really knows something
Speaker 1: to take you around for the whole day and give
Speaker 1: you all the inside scoop. We loved it. We went
Speaker 1: and saw Hamilton, you know, an American play.
Speaker 2: Absolutely tell it to contact me.
Speaker 3: I'll get I'll get hooked up with all the places
Speaker 3: to go for sure, Please, dude, will be a Lady
Speaker 3: of London by the end of the trip.
Speaker 1: Tell everybody where they can find you and find out
Speaker 1: what you're writing because all of your stuff. I was
Speaker 1: looking at your your Harper's Bizarre monthly article Cultural Staples,
Speaker 1: and you were talking about Kylie and Timothy Shallamy and
Speaker 1: you're also talking about heated rivalry. So you do talk
Speaker 1: about a lot of pop culture topics that aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: Bravos and tell people where they can find you and
Speaker 1: find all the stuff you're writing.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Mary Payne. So yes, I write.
Speaker 3: It's actually twice a monthly now as of a couple
Speaker 3: of months ago column for Harper's Bizarre. It's called Cultural Staples.
Speaker 3: It is not about reality TV, so it's about pop culture.
Speaker 2: It's about film.
Speaker 3: It's about television and just like what's happening right now
Speaker 3: in the worlds of culture.
Speaker 2: So I do that.
Speaker 3: But the best place for people to find me is
Speaker 3: really on Instagram, which is at Louis Staples l O
Speaker 3: U I S S T A P L E S.
Speaker 3: And I'm on x as well, but mostly Instagram. That's
Speaker 3: why do most of my posting. That's where I post
Speaker 3: all my articles and you know, random rants about everything
Speaker 3: that's everything that's happening in the world.
Speaker 1: Listen, your article about heated rival or you know, my
Speaker 1: daughter is obsessed with heated rivalry and the star is obsessed.
Speaker 1: She then now has gotten all the books and now
Speaker 1: she's you know, uh, it was quite I never watched it,
Speaker 1: but she's like, you're missing out. I was like, I
Speaker 1: don't have time. I have to watch so much TV.
Speaker 1: But things like that, I love when and then the
Speaker 1: Timothy Shallow, Maagne and the Kylie of it all just
Speaker 1: having the oscars and them being on the front row,
Speaker 1: and so I love that you write about stuff like
Speaker 1: that that is in our zeitgeist that maybe we didn't
Speaker 1: think about in that way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean, what's more zeit guys than the Housewives.
Speaker 3: I feel like led my gateway drug to like pop culture,
Speaker 3: and then I felt like it just became an even
Speaker 3: bigger part of the culture. And then I just started
Speaker 3: getting super into Basically, if people are talking about it,
Speaker 3: I'm interested in writing about it.
Speaker 1: So I know I'm gonna I'm gonna use you from
Speaker 1: now on to gauge to gauge, but I shouldn't thinking, Okay,
Speaker 1: we're done, don't hang up. Thank you guys, and make
Speaker 1: sure you're following me at p Shade Pod and I'll
Speaker 1: see you next week. Say bye yeah. H m hmmmm
Speaker 1: hm