Speaker 1: Well, other networks lie to you about what's happening.
Speaker 2: Now. In vo Wars tells you the truth about what's happening. Next,
visit in vo wars dot com, Forward slash Show and
share the link. Today, Welcome back to the fourth hour
of the Alex Joneshew and your guest host Jay Dyer
jays analysis and I wanted to talk about what's happening
in the UK because a lot of people think that
this is government and competence and the failure of the
leaders of Britain to adequately represent and safeguard the interests
of their native population. And that's certainly a factor, but
what most people are missing, which is something I covered
pretty much all week on Twitter. I had a post
that went viral covering a book that I mentioned many
many times. That's the Joan Ratio book, The Milliner Fabian Conspiracy,
because it's such a crucial text to know and understand
what's happening in the UK, because the model of what's
happening in the UK is the same model for what
they want to do elsewhere, particularly in the West in
the United States. And so I want to talk about
Islam today. It's role in this whole system of what
the global elite are rolling out, the plans that they
have for Islam, what they want to see it do.
And even though Islam itself is a chess piece on
the chessboard if by the global elite, by Brazenski, he
wrote the book right grand chess board. If we think
back to the time of the late seventies when there
was the Soviet Afghanistan conflict, Brezenski had the idea to,
following the pattern of British intelligence decades before him, utilize
radical Islam or extreme Islam to fight against the Soviets,
and the idea was to go into Afghanistan. There's a
famous clip of him saying to the local afghanis.
Speaker 3: Population that as God gave you that land, and he
says that that will impel them in the clip, that
will impel you to take it back.
Speaker 2: And of course what's obvious in this clip is that
for Brazienski, God is a tool. God is a manipulation
tactic to use with these rather simple minded backwoods Afghanistan
villagers to get them to fight against the Soviets in
that conflict, and that ended up working because Brazinski's plan
was to wear down the Soviets through this conflict and
to get them exhausted, to get them distracted, and that
participated in the later decline of the Soviet Union in
the nineteen eighties and its eventual collapse. So it played
a key role in furthering the collapse. That's one example
of the Western elite utilizing Islam as part of their strategy.
Now that doesn't mean that they believe in Islam, so
I understand that from their vantage point, a lot of
these worldviews are tools for conflicts, tools for dialectics, tools
for geopolitical strategy. In fact, one of the most famous
neocons many years ago, who studied under the arch neocon
Bernard Lewis out of the UK, was a guy named
Samuel P. Huntington, and he wrote the book Flash of
Civilizations and the Remaking of World Order. Huntington said that
the future conflict would be between Islam and the West
because the world views are incompatible. In other words, they
knew a long time ago it's kind of obvious that
Western enlightenment liberalism is not compatible with Islam. Islam has
a perspective that sees all of life as underneath a
kind of theocratic rulership. Of Allah, and so there's no
areas of life that are quote secular. The inheritance of
American philosophy, you could say, out of the Enlightenment. The
American experiment adopted the Enlightenment idea that there would be
a kind of recognition of some God, a generic deity.
Many of the founding fathers were Christian, but many of
them were also Deists, many of them were at Freemasons,
and so the idea was that we're not going to
attach any specificity to this God's one nation under a
generic God. And so this idea then allowed for the
pluralism within the American experiment, and it becomes kind of
fundamental to America and Americanism. That obviously doesn't fit with
the totalizing aspect of the way Islam understands God. So
necessarily these two positions must come into conflict, and that's
kind of what's going on in that book. But it's
also engineered and manipulated at a higher level. And when
we come back, we're going to look at many of
the examples of strategists of the elite, the technocrats, who
have talked about how they could utilize Islam to completely
rewrite the West and its operating system. This is the
Alex Jones Show, Don Go Anywhere. I'm your guest host
Jay di Or of jays nelsis Welcome back to the Aulex
John Show. On your guest host jayder of jays Analysis,
we're talking about the history of Western relationship with Islam
and the usage of various Islamic groups and sects for
various purposes. In fact, Islam as a whole, you could
argue is being used. I want to talk about that
here in a second. And there's many books that I've
read on this topic which helped, I think to loose
today the geopolitical role that Islam plays in the mind
of the technocrats. And I think the first place to
really understand that is to go back to the history
of the British Empire. The British Empire thought, for example,
that if they could control Mecca and have that as
part of their something under their dominion, then they would
have a huge amount of influence in the world of Islam.
And to a degree that makes sense, and that explains
a lot of the policies of the British Empire and
at the operations that they engaged in. If you know
about Lawrence of Arabia to Lawrence. If you know about
Kim Philby's dad, Saint John Philby, I was get him
mixed up with Saint John Hunt. But the Kim Philby's father,
who was the famous Arabist and intelligence operated for the
British who went and became essentially a Muslim, and that
he did that you could debate whether he really believed
Islam or not, but he was doing it more so
as an intelligence operative to help to carve up and
establish the Middle East as we know it today out
of the British Empire. So the British Empire is really
the background to how we have nations like Iraq or
even nations like Israel in terms of the Balfour Declaration.
So the British Empire has to be understood to understand
understand today's the way the world is carved up today.
And even though back at that time they understood the
possibility of using very Islamic groups, what emerged was the
idea to actually kind of coax and utilize more and
more radical strains of Islam. And one example that would
be the Muslim Brotherhood, which has a long history of
being aligned with and funded by British intelligence versus intelligence
has for many years, many decades, worked with various sectors
of the Muslim Brotherhood as a close ally to do
all kinds of operations in other countries and to blame
it or pin it on some other group. So it
functions as a kind of a proxy. You could say
that doesn't mean that there aren't serious Muslims amongst those groups,
but that is part of the history of the Muslim
Brotherhood and many books have been written on that. There's
a great book that covers it called Secret Affairs by
Mark Curtis. He's a Royal Society researcher, and so we
know that being a member of the Royal Society, he's
obviously got some clout and some poll in terms of academia.
I think those are reliable sources and other books that
have covered this. There's a book by Robert Dreyfis called
Devil's Game. He talks about This book talks about the
history of Britain and their intelligence services and their quote
deep state utilizing Islam, and this one more so focuses
on the US utilizing various Islamic groups for their ends.
But both of them kind of have the same principles
the same patterns, the same conclusions, and the sort of complex, wide,
wild world of Islam I think is really crucial to understand.
So hopefully we can maybe demystify some of that today.
So those are a few examples of how imperial geopolitics
has seen Islam as something that might be utilized in
various ways. But as we get into the turn of
the last century, the early nineteen hundreds, we've talked about
the Fabian society. This is the socialist elites of the
UK who came out of the Cecil Roads Rothschild, Millner circles,
who originally wanted a re revamped, re energized British Empire
for the world. That was Cecil Rhodes's plan, But that
didn't really work because after World War One and World
War Two, Britain started going bankrupt and we had the
rise of the United States as the dominant world power.
So they realized in the nineteen twenties thirties forties that
they weren't going to have a new British empire. But
the best way to go about this new empire that
they wanted to control, this new technocratic superstate, would be
to bring the United States back under its fold and
utilized it as the engine of the global order. This
happened when the elites of the Royal Society, the British superstructure, etc.
And the people that controlled them this would be the
rath Child Cecil, Roads Milner types of circlesasters the Cliveden set.
They decided that the United States should have a secret
inner group that ran it, kind of like the way
that the UK was run. In the UK, they had
set up what's called the roundtable groups. This is the
Royal Institut National Affairs in its idea of these Arturian
roundtable groups. It doesn't literally go back to King Arthur.
It's just an image. It's just an idea of how
to model governance by wise men, governance by steering groups
and committees. And so they set up Chatham House in
the UK for these roundtable groups originally, and then in
New York the Rockefellers helped set up Pratt House, which
would be the mirror to that round Table group in
the UK. In the United States this becomes the Council
in Formulations, and eventually the Trilateral Commission is kind of
above that. And so you have this structure of a
breakaway security state which runs things. And this was the
plan that essentially these British intelligence operatives gave to FDR
and Bill Donovan when they came and set up this
super state, you could say, the secret Core, breakaway intelligence
operation that really runs things in nineteen forty two with
the National Security Act, and then it becomes the CIA
in nineteen forty seven. So these entities are examples of
what we're talking about of these steering groups, these breakaway
inner clicks. This is what we mean by the cryptocracy,
the shadow government, the deep state. That's who really runs
things in the United States, and they run things from
the in a kind of public private way, so they're
hidden in plain sight. It's not like a super secret
hidden nobody knows who runs things group. They're in the open,
but they're also doing a lot of things in their
private meetings. That's the Chatham House rules, so to speak.
So if we go back to the nineteen tens, twenties
thirties in the UK, the groups around Lord Rathchild and
Lord Milner that they had passed away, but they hand
on their legacy to the next generation who were running
what they what they believe would be a reformed Marxist
socialist order for the world. Reform Marxism is just Marxism updated,
for accounting for the fact that many aspects of Marxism
had failed. So you had these elements in Marxism like
the proletariat rising up and seizing the means of production
that didn't happen. And so the Marxist socialists in the UK,
many of them, said, we got to kind of update,
We got we gotta reform this because obviously Joe Sixpack
is not interested in the debates about dialectics that Trotzky
talked about. So we got to fix this, We got
to come up with some new way. And they had
the idea to align themselves with progressive minded, very wealthy people.
This is what Fabian socialism is. It's Marxist socialist ideology
that is not interested in an immediate, bloody revolution, but
using the techniques of social engineering and state craft and
the long march through the institutions to eventually seize institutional
power over many, many decades or even centuries to then
create the eventual Marxist order that they want. So it's
a more pragmatic approach than the idealistic approach of classical Marxists,
and they ended up being very successful because they ended
up gaining a lot of wealthy financial support, including people
like Henry Ford, people like the raw Childs, people like
even David Rockefeller was a big fan of the Fabian
socialist model. He studied under Harold Laski, one of the
most famous Fabian socialist professors. So, as we've mentioned many
times over, and I'm not going to rehash this point
because I've said it so many times. Most of the
entities that we know of in the world today that
have a tremendous amount of power and call a lot
of the shots, things like the CFR, things like the
Royal and Supernational Affairs, things like the League of Nations
and then the United Nations, the socialist organizations that exist
out there in the world, the World Bank, the IMF, NATO,
Royal Council, Churches, National Council Churches, Aspen Institute, Builderberg, all
of these trilateral they were all founded by Fabian socialists
and ideologues to push various types of Fabian socialist ideology.
So that's really the idea behind most of what's happening
in the world today. That doesn't mean that everybody out
there is self consciously a Fabian socialists. There might be
many people in these groups who are full on Marxists,
some that are democrats, some that are you know, who
knows what, full on classical Marxists, but for the most part,
classical Marxism doesn't really exist. Most people are not straight
up hardcore classical Marxists because a lot of what Marx
talked about didn't come about, and so they've kind of
a to, well, we got a morph with and adapt
to and change to the times, and so they're much
more amenable to monopoly capitalism as Marxist socialists, and so
they have this hybrid view, which is what we're talking about.
In the nineteen nineties, this was called the Third Way,
and the idea was that with the fall of the
Soviet Union, maybe they could combine Eastern Sovietism into Western
capitalism and create this hybrid synthesis system out of this
dialectic of East versus West. And we just read, for example,
a Jacques Attalie's book Millennium from nineteen ninety where he
was talking about this. He was talking about as a
dialectical conflict of East and West, of capitalism, Sovietism and
out of this would come this synthesis of some form
of technocracy which combined both elements of capitalism, elements of Sovietism, communism, socialism, Marxism,
and this slow approach model they found to be a
lot better than again, the quick, immediate, bloody revolution of
classical Marxism or of the Jacobins. That doesn't work very well.
It has a lot of bloodshed and oftentimes it just
brings in something way worse. So why not use a longer, slower,
scientific methodological approach to bring about these ends? Now, a
lot of people think, for example, that NATO was founded
as an anti communist institution. It was not. It was
founded by Fabian socialists who were opposed to Stalinism and
the NKVD and that form of Sovietism, not socialism. And
this is why people are always getting confused, because they
hear all these terms and these words, and well, who
is this group? Is it?
Speaker 4: That group?
Speaker 2: Is that? All of these groups that we listed are
founded by people in the circles of Rose, Rothschild, Milner,
et cetera.
Speaker 4: Even the New.
Speaker 2: Age movement from Madam Bolbatski. Guess what, she was a
Fabian socialist. So what about Islam. How does the Islam
factor into this? Well, I was happy to see that.
You know when a lot of times when you read
people's analyses of this every one sided. They don't have
a nuanced approach. They don't really think about how there
could be multiple things going on here. So a lot
of times right wingers will think that, oh, it's all
Islam versus classical liberalism, or it's you know, the terrorists
that did nine to eleven versus the free Christian West,
or something like that. I mean, this is just a
super dumbed down not even close to how it's really
going on in the real world, how complex it actually is.
I want to try to demystify it and make it
a little less complex. One thing that people don't understand
is what's with this alliance between the left and Islam.
We've seen this for a long time, and there seems
to be something to this, and it doesn't on the
face of it make much sense because well, doesn't Islam
typically oppose a lot of these leftist principles. That's true,
but there's more going on because it's a geostrategic thing.
It's not really to do with the ideas themselves and
If we go back to the early Fabian socialists in
the nineteen twenties thirties forties, guess what they were writing
and talking about. How to bring into the UK Islam.
And they wanted this, because this is their own writings.
They wanted to replace the existing white population with a
foreign population that had a diametrically opposed worldview on purpose
like Huntingdon talked about now hunting and doesn't talk about
this in like a conspiracy way, but he does say
that these worldviews are in conflict. They're not you can't
assimilate these two positions, they're mutually exclusive positions. Well, it
turns out that in the nineteen ten, twenty thirties forties,
many of the early Fabian socialists wrote many books praising
Mohammad and Islam. Part of the reason for this, not
the only reason, but part of the reason for this
is that many of the British elite had gotten a
kind of fascination with with Islam and Arabic culture. That's
because of a lot of the intelligence operations, a lot
of the connections between Islam and the British intelligence of
the Muslim Brotherhood, the previous spies that we mentioned and
so there were many Arabists and many Orientalists, and many
people who study these cultures, and some of them perhaps
who even maybe believed it. It's not exactly clear what
worldview King Charles has, but he has expressed in many
instances a lot of interest in Sufhism. He was even
inducted at one point into a Sufi order. Now he
tends to be more of a perennialist and so he
seems to kind of change and like all the religion,
so who knows what he really believes, but he has
that many many occasions expressed a fascination and interest with
Sufhism in those other forms of Islam. But that's interesting
because there's a long history again of the British elite.
It seems like about half of them were pro for
example Palestine around the time Balfour Declaration. About the other
half of them were pro Zionist and wanted to set
up a zion estate. And we covered that in the
Quigley book. So it's not a black or white issue.
I'm just saying that that's part of the of the
power structure in the UK was very fascinated with him,
very into Islam. This led for example, British intelligence to
setting up a puppet Mufti in Jerusalem. The Grand Mufti
of Jerusalem was a explicitly a British intelligence operative, an asset,
and that's because they really wanted to have that control
there as well if they had their asset there. And
that's why you see him meeting with Hitler. For example,
there's a famous picture that guy meeting with Hitler. If
you look up the Grand mood to Jerusalem. By the way,
he looks just like Ryan Gosling. So I've been making
that joke for many years. But he, I mean literally
just like him. So maybe it's like reincarnated. He reincarnated
as Ryan Gosling or something. I mean, I don't believe reincarnation,
but that's just a joke. The Fabian socialist to go
back to these as characters around the circles of Milner
and Rawchild and all that. They also had a lot
of associates like Annie Besant bertrand Russell HG.
Speaker 4: Wells.
Speaker 2: You probably heard of them. We've lectured through all their books.
Guess what They're all interested in, paviy and socialism. And
the clearest examples of this are the writings of For
example HG.
Speaker 4: Wells.
Speaker 2: Wells wrote that we would enter into a scientific technocracy
and this would be basically like Star Trek. We're all
going to be living in the Federation and flying around
in space compods or whatever. Of course that's not really
where we are. But what people don't know is that
they all wrote about how much they loved Mohammed and Islam.
Now they don't believe Islam, but they had this fascination
with this love, this desire for Islam to enter into
the UK and Europe. Why Islam isn't immediately compatible with
New Age stuff, Well, they began by liking and appreciating Sufhism.
The Fabians were in love with Sufism, and it's actually
a large part of Sufism that helped to inject the
energy and impetus to the New Age movement. For example,
Madam Blavatski was a fan of it. Bassant was a
fan of Islam and Sufhism, and so they brought into
the UK these professors who were promoting and were kind
of missionaries for Islam through Sufhism. Originally, because Sufism is
more of a mystical, neoplatonic Islam and that's more amenable
to a population that was still nominally Christian like the
British were. So even though the Church of England is
kind of a joke, by this time people were again
much more open to other options. Since the Church of
England have become more and more and more liberal today
it's just completely totally gone. But even at this time
it was becoming liberalized as a were sing, well, maybe
there's other options, and so they started reading Rumi the
poet getting into his Sufhism. Theosophy was also very amenable
to Sufism. You started having professors, lecturers at Oxford, Cambridge,
et cetera, teaching Islamic courses, teaching Islamic lectures, classes, print
printing books, and a Sufi institute was set up called
the ICR, the Institute for So, I forget the exact
name of it, but it's called the ICR. And instead
up with this guy who was brought into Oxford basically
to help Islamic size the UK. But this model was
no different than the EU as well. So understand that
the Fabian socials were saying that how could we replace
Christianity and the indigenous population in Europe to make it
more amenable to this EU model that they wanted. Yes,
they wanted an EU. Even in that early day, even
in the twenties and thirties, these people were discussing how
to create a European Socialist union. How would we create that?
Whether we're going to have to get rid of Christianity,
they say, the existing Christian systems that are there and
the Christian population, how would we do that. The best
way to do that, they said, they strategized bring in
gigantic amounts of Muslims. So Sufism was originally the cultural
engineering in the nineteen thirties, forties, et cetera, to eventually
shift over into the more radical quote orthodox branches of Islam.
They couldn't immediately bring in all of the Salafi Wahabi
people who were already many of them working for the
British Empire and for British intelligence. Was brotherhood. They brought
in the Sufis, and then they warmed people up after
many decades. Again that is the Fabian slow kile model.
Then eventually you've got essentially Muslims running the whole place.
You've got Lundanistan as it's known for many, many years.
And this is why You've got British intelligence working with
and protecting many of these quote radicals for many, many decades.
How are they allowed to just run wild and do
all this stuff in the UK? The blind shake all
these people who are obviously you know, the double agents
and operative as well, because the intelligence services are not
actually opposed to Islam. Now, people in the quote conspiracy
world have been saying this for so long, especially after
the Big nine event, right, and people who didn't believe
in false flags or this stuff, they derided and talked
bad about us and said how evil we were and
all this kind of stuff. Now, but I appreciate Ratchia
because he understood. He understands that the operators, for example,
in the seven to seven event, we're working for British intelligence.
They were people on the role. Karun Rashid Oswat was
recruited by m I six in and Kosovo when he
was doing things for the Klaka was another fake Western
created operation for the Islamic Kosovo liberation. That was Tony
Blair and Bill Clinton selecting CIA are selecting OKA operatives
to run those operations there. And one of those characters
was Harun Rashid Oswat, who's then brought to the UK
and one of the key figures in the London seven
seven event. So these I mean, what does that tell you?
In fact, you can still find the Fox News clip
where they covered this that Haarun Rashid Ashwat was running
that operation and then had been recruited by British intelligence.
So it's not government and competency. This is the people
can So they're so incompetent they could, don't they know?
They're so stupid. It's the same lie that allows the
politicians to do all this stuff in the US as
well well.
Speaker 4: But Biden's so stupid, what a boob.
Speaker 2: They're not stupid. The politicians are stupid. Whoever that British
kir or whatever his name is, Yeah, he might be
an idiotic tool. But the people that are running these
things in the intelligence services, they're not stupid. Now, they're
not infallible, they're not omnipotent. But they knew all along
these people were radical Muslims. And by the way, I
came to the UK years ago for a talk and
I was accosted and interrogated for forty minutes at the
airport because I was bringing in books to sell. It
wasn't thousands of books. It was a couple dozen books
to sell at a talk. So they can stop me
and interrogate me for forty minutes and almost not let
me into the country. But they can't stop and they
don't know who Harun Rushi to Oswat is who worked
for British intelligence. Come on, this is ridiculous. The same contradition.
Contradition came out this week in the New Zealand COVID
document that Alex covered. We'll talk about that in just
a second. This amazing contradiction. This is the Alex Joonho
Go don't go anywhere.
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Speaker 2: I was just reading on Twitter as somebody who presumably
is from the UK was talking about how there are
now one hundred and forty MPs that are explicitly openly
Fabian socialists, including Sodcon, including the present Governor of the
Bank of England. So understand that this ideology is not
something that died or went away. It might be obscure,
it might be something that not many people in America
know about, but this ideology is very popular in the
UK for sure. In fact, many of the labor politicians
and politicians have been covert in secret Fabian socialists for
a long time. Some of them have been more open openly.
So again, this is not a This is not a
secret society or some sort of secret thing that we're
going to hide in the shadows and nobody knows that
we're Fabian Socialists. This isn't a public organization, an entity
that has again a very public symbology that they show
quite often that they have a few symbols. One of
them is the wolf in sheep's clothing. This is the
idea that, going back to Beatrice and Sydney Webb and others,
that in order to make Marxism and socialism successful, what
they would have to do is don the cloak the
image of a enlightened progressive of liberalism. Even though classical
Marxism is not liberal. It's known as anti liberal because
it's opposed to liberal economic theory. And if you go
into the history Marxism, you'll learn very clearly that very
quickly that they're not liberal, they're anti liberal. The Fabian
Socialists decided that it was much more successful to don
the cloak of being a progressive, of being a liberal,
of being favorable towards capitalism and so forth liberal economic theory,
and so they sort of aligned and melded with it,
and that was one of the key strategies that made
them so successful. In the UK. For example, Tony Blair
was openly a Fabian socialist. His whole policy, his whole
everything he was doing was part of that Fabyan socialist ideology.
So it is imperial reformed Marxist socialism. That's what Fabian
socialism is, and it works together closely with monopoly capitalism explicitly.
That's all you have to understand, and that's how you
understand that that's the world that we're going into. That's
why so many of these politicians who you're constantly fighting
over between them being liberal or conservative, or liberal or conservative,
they're all working with the same basic ideology. I'm not
saying that Trump is a Fabian socialist. He's not. Trump
is just a strait up capitalist, I think in terms
of his ideology. But the federal reserve system, Kynesian economics
is Fabian socialist economics. John Millen Kynes was into Fabian socialism.
He's one of these characters who helped to set up
these institutions like IMF and World Bank, which are part
of this gigantic Fabian socialist structure, which is the governing
ideological system of technocracy that is running the world. In
the West again, League of Nations, United Nations, these are
all entities established from this mindset, from this ideology. And
again the intelligence services, especially in the UK, were never
opposed to these Islamic ideologies, Islamic theology or Islamic radicalism.
That's why it's been fostered, allowed and promoted in the UK.
And people have been again so averse to this idea
and thinking that it's a conspiracy theory. But this last
week woke everyone up to this. Now people are realizing, hey,
wait a minute. You know, idiot right wingers thinking that
they can make an alliance with Islam, and now the
Muslims are all, you know, fighting and attacking and pointing
out that you're not going to make an alliance with this.
This is a religion of submission and ultimately submission by
force as well. It's not a religion where you debate
and everybody's friendly and we come to these conclusions of
the basis of rational discourse and ideology. No, no, no, that's
not how that works. There's some Muslims who will do that,
but ultimately Islam doesn't operate in that way. That's a
Western idea. So it's silly to think that non Western
people are going to operate on the principles of Western
liberalism and debate and Enlightenment ideology. They'll only do that
until they gain the upper hand, and then it flips
and then you get this system. Now. The crazy part though,
is that the elites aren't even really into Islam, but
they see Islam as a very useful geopolitical tool. That's
the key here. And I was mentioning earlier the New
Age Movement that it's largely traceable I think to Madame Lebatski,
who is a Babian socialist in the circles of Milner
and all the raw Childs and these people. But she
also and the New Age movement also shares a lot
of its origin with Sufism in the UK and the
promotion of Sufi Islam in its syncretist kind of neoplatonic principles.
Neoplatonism is one of these systems which allows all of
the world religions to kind of be subsumed under this superstructure,
this perennial type of structure. And also, by the way,
Razia makes a key point which I believe flam Ingdahl
makes in his books, particularly Full Spectrum Dominance, which is
that the nineteen seventy three oil crisis was key because
that allowed Builderberg and Kissinger to make the decision ya
Opek and all that to establish the Western reliance on
Arab oil. Have you ever wondered why, I mean, we
don't have to have Arab oil. Doesn't America have gigantic
untapped oil reserves? Yeah? Sure, but the global elite intentionally
don't want us tapping those things. That's why there's these laws,
and there's these you know, they pass laws against drilling
on this continent and we have to rely on foreign
oil because of these deals that were made for big
globalist institutions. And Ratu has a fascinating chapter on that
where he talks about how this was decided in the
Bilderberg meetings via Kissinger and others. As Ingdall points out,
like other key British institutions, the Fabian founded London School
for Economics, with its closely linked Department of International Relations
set up by the Fabian Lord Haldane and his friend
Lord Rothchild, together with Sir Ernest Kassel the nineteen twenties
and the European Institute have been running research courses, in
seminars and lectures to promote the advance thinking on EU
Muslim Relations. In twenty ten, I Knew pro Islamic outfit
was created with the name of the Center for Middle
Eastern Studies. It was added to the London School of
Economics Arsenal. The pro Islamic stance of such institutions is
demonstrated by their receipt of vast sums of money from
Islamic regimes in other countries, and so money had been
coming in. You probably remember that famous banker Peter Sutherland.
Well Peter Sutherland who talked about replacing the existing populations
of Europe. Famously the banker, he was one of these
key people involved in making sure that funding went to
these entities, to islamis size Europe. So you understand it's
not just outside Islamic powers and forces, it's the traders
within the EU and the UK, particularly in the Rachel Rhodes, Miliner,
Fabian circles and the EU. Because these are the people
that set up the EU. Remember, the same people that
we're talking about set up the EU. It wasn't Hitler
that set up the EU. He had a plan for
his version of an EU, but the EU is set
up by the OS and the CIA. On record, Bill Donovan,
Jan Smutz, the European Coal Project. Those are all OSS projects.
They're not projects by Hitler. So it's not true that
Hitler set up to the EU. It's verifiable on record
that Donovan and the CIA and OSS established the EU
and it was decided on at the Bilderberg meetings. Daniel
Aslin has in his book the declassified old documents from
those old Bilderberg meetings about setting up the EU, and
that was they weren't doing that with Hitler. Okay. Anyway,
Roger goes on to talk about the decision to make
the West dependent on Arab oil as part of this
global superstructure that they wanted to set up the same
idea with making American manufacturing not local but dependent on
Chinese goods, that same strategies. Do you understand that the
d industrialization and sending all of that to other countries
is on purpose. It's not just because they want to
have a tax break, right Like if you listen to
some about like Peter Shiff, it's well, companies just go
over to other countries because of high taxes. Yeah, but
they do that on purpose to de industrialize the West,
because these people said, we want to de industrialize the West,
and the nineteen seventy three Carter era oil crisis was engineer.
That's the thing, because we don't have to be reliant
on four and on. But now what do we have, Well,
decades later, after nine to eleven, and after all of this,
you have a Fabian socialist Islamic Ish mayor Sadiq Khan.
It was a it was a member of the Fabian Society,
shadow minister for London at least when this book was written.
Many many other, as we said, politicians who as their
explicit party stated goal is as for example, Tony Blair,
Tony Blurr Blair praised the Qur'an and Islamic imperialism as
a progressive move in two thousand and six. So this
is like a couple of years after nine to eleven,
what a year before seven seven and Tony Tony Blair
saying we need more Islam. Wait a minute, according to
the official narrative of nine to eleven, it's right radical
Saudis and you know Osama bin Laden that are waging this,
you know, covert war through terror on the West. And
so what is Tony Blair and everybody all these all
these politicians answered, we need more Islam. But they're not
stupid people who are organizing the Fabian methodology and all
this that they're not dumb. They're not. They're the people
that set up all the institutions that we know today,
including NATO. So why would we think and why do
we keep defaulting to thinking that everybody who's running things
is just stupid incompetent. That is a cloak that allows
them to keep getting away with more until you recognize
and understand that the world is not run by total idiots.
But whether there is an Atlantis's power block, and I'm
not saying that they're infallible or omnipotent, they do have
weaknesses and they can fail at this. Many of the
things that they push fail. Many of the things that
they push fall apart and don't work. And we have
to understand, for example that to give you some good news,
if you go back to Jaquette Lee's books, if you
remember Jacquette to Lee said that when we roll out
this technocratic order, there will be massive reaction, and he
even gives the decades when he thinks that will happen.
He says between twenty twenty and twenty forty. He says
there will be a large up uprising against this, and
he says that's the one thing we have to worry about.
And guess what he says is the main concern. He says,
Christian theocracy in the West and in America will make
a resurgence, and we have to be concerned with that
as the thing that might foil the rollout of the
technocratic global order. He explicitly says that in his two
thousand and six Brief History of the Future. Jacquetteli's not
a nobody. He's the kissing your France. We just covered
his nineteen ninety book a few weeks ago where he
said in nineteen ninety, I'm being put as the head
of this new EU bank. Right the official rollout of
the EU was right around that time. They had planned
the EU fifty seventy years earlier, and because of the
fall of the Wall, Jacquettelis says, I'm being placed as
the head of this big bank here to help integrate
the former Soviet bloc countries into the EU and to
get them under IMF debt and control. See that's how
it works, that's the Keynesian model. So it's not capitalism
versus communism. That's old stuff. It's populism and local governance
and the rights of individuals and people versus collectivism and
baby and socialism which is aligned with corporatism. And we
still have people running around acting like it's the state
versus libertarianism. I mean, this is just such a low tier, childish,
you know, non nuanced, non reality based philosophy or picture
of what's going on. I mean, if it's libertarianism versus
the state, then why were all the corporations and the
Fortune five hundred, Fortune one hundred pushing all the koof stuff,
all the skittle stuff, all the tRNS stuff. That's not
state versus corporations. It's a gigantic, megalithic corporate prime conglomeration
including all the biggest banks and all of the Fortune
one hundred and Fortune five hundred coupan that it's all
They're all bad. That's the point. And so the way
to break out of this system is to understand that
none of these systems are good. None of these systems
are going to save anybody. You're not going to fix
it by pushing more classical liberalism. The philosophy of four
hundred years ago, which is totally not even relevant in
the modern world. You're only going to fix it with
a return to what the global elite themselves say is
the danger real grounded theism, Christian theism. What did HG.
Wells and Bertrand Russell and say, Alice Bailey, another one
of the Fabian socialists witches in the circles of these
people who helped found the New Age movement, whose philosophy
was adopted by the United Nations, what did you say
would have.
Speaker 4: To be.
Speaker 2: Done? Does anybody recall she has a ten point plan
to do what to destroy Christianity? Why a ten point
plan to destroy Christianity? She says, we would have to
destroy Christianity to bring in the New Age and the
socialist world government, the capitalist socialist world government. Fast forward
almost one hundred years, issh and what does Jacque Attalis say?
Our main concern is a resurgent authentic Christianity in America
and in the West. That would be the stumbling block
to rolling out the sky net Matrix Gollumn project. He
calls it a gollumn. Linking everyone's brains into a supercomputer
is called a gollumn, which comes out of the medieval
cabalist mythology the Gollumn. By the way, the famous father
of cybernetics, Norbert Wiener, I was reading a bunch of
his stuff this last week. Well, guess what if you
rea his book on cybernetics, Within the first twenty pages,
he says that, yes, I worked with the Rockefeller Foundation,
mi T, the Macy Foundation, Gregory Bateson, and a host of
other nefarious characters who just happen to be all the
same characters that are part of mk Ultra. So this,
even Norbert Wiener's own book on cybernetics vindicates that it
comes out of the mkulture projects. He doesn't mention Mkultra.
He doesn't have to, because if you've read the other
books on Mkultra, you know that all of those entities
are directly connected with and funding the various mk ultra projects.
And both of the classic books on mk Ultra, John
Marx's book, Walter Bowart's book, both from the late seventies,
in their books with chapters about how mkultra transitioned into
cybernetics and what is what's the point of all that? Well,
guess what. Norbert Weener wrote another book called God and
the gollumn, and the gollumn is what he's talking about
with cybernetics. So in Jewish medieval philosophy and Kabbalism, the
idea of a being with no soul that is then
insold or controlled by the magician and created from a
husk the Klei fought, that's what a gollumn is, Joe Elim.
And so from that vantage point, they would see the
masses as a gigantic gollumn linked into the global brain.
That's not my words, that's jacott to Lee's words. Jacquottali
says that when everybody's linked into the global brain, it's
the gollum. It's what he says in his both Brief
Is for the Future. Now, I don't think it's only
Jewish minded individuals or cobblists or whoever. There's all kinds
of individuals involved in pushing this ideology in this project.
There are politicians, there's CEOs, there's people who are not
partisan too, necessarily Jewish mystics, but they don't have to
be because they're all part of the same agenda, which
is to roll out this technocratic control system which always
has the same models depopulation, one world currency, one world
government tracking, tracing and control for all means and medium
of exchange, shutting off your wallet, you know, the social
credit system. All of that is part of this super
this whole thing. But Islam plays a key role in
this which we can't overlook or ignore, which is to
be a kind of battering ram for the global elite
technocrats to bring them into the poppy, to the areas
where they can be used. So in the case of Europe,
that was the most logical conclusion for the technocrats. What
other religion and historic antithesis to Europe and it's pseudo
Christian history at least in the last thousand years, what
other option would you do? There's no other options. You're
going to bring in Chinese, you know, communism, You're going
to import Islam on a mass scale. That's the only
thing that makes any sense. And Peter Sutherland, these other
famous banking elites said that that's exactly what they were doing.
So they openly said this. I remember that when it
came out on mainstream news that Peter Sutherland was saying,
we got to bring in more Muslims to destroy the
existing European state, to create a more fundamentally homogeneous EU.
General Wesley Clark. Everybody quotes them about the Seven Nation Plan. Well,
guess what. He also had other quotes because he was
at NATO where he said that part of the philosophan
strategy of NATO is to destroy Europe to make it
a EU. He knew this, he admitted it. You're not
supposed to talk about the Calergy Plan, but I have
Colergy's book. He talks about creating a homogeneous Europe, a
new European socialist state, and quickly says that the British
royal society elite adopted the Count's plan. Not a conspiracy theory.
Speaker 4: He wrote it.
Speaker 2: He wrote a book about it. So remember you're not
the books that they write. They call that conspiracy even
though it's pubblic books. And it's not a conspiracy theory
because it's not a theory, it's an actual plan that's
rolled out in the books. They're right about it anyway.
So Islam also plays another role too, though in being
utilized by Western intelligence, going all the way back to
British intelligence at the turn of the last century, utilizing
a lot of tribal warfare, sparking tribal warfare. This is
just imperial geopolitics, where you keep the tribes warring with
each other to control those tribes. This goes back to
Caesar his diaries and how he would control the Germanic
tribes and other tribes, the British tribes that were the barbarians.
He would keep them fighting with each other so that
he could manage them. The same principle was going on
with the British Empire. And I'm not saying that the
British Empire started all the tribal conflicts. There's always been
t conflicts in the Middle East. I'm well aware of that,
But I'm just saying that imperial geopolitics typically plays on
this ability to play up and exacerbate the existing local tensions.
That's exactly the strategy that Brezenski adopted, again based on
earlier British intelligence models for how they would utilize radical
Islam in the late nineteen seventies and throughout the eighties.
In fact, go look up the muja Hadeen at the
White House. I mean, Ronald Reagan has the freedom fighters,
the Musjahadeen, which would become al Qaeda eventually in a
few decades in the White House. Actually, in one decade.
So from nineteen eighties, right, al Qaeda is the freedom
fighting heroes meeting with Ronald Reagan in the White House.
Ten years later, al Qaeda is behind, you know, the
World Trades Enter bombing, and there's this Osama bin Laden figure,
and you know, he's we got to watch out for him,
and oh he happens to pop up again nine to eleven.
We had no idea what was going on, even though
there was already a nineteen ninety three Provocateurd and Mads
thelam bombing of the World Trade Center. Hundealeza Rice says,
we had no idea that anybody would bomb these things.
Are try tack to you, this is no idea. We
never heard of this, even though they were running drills
like the Vision like Guardian that very day. So it's
all a bunch of lies because in reality, the system,
especially in the security deep state, they know all this stuff,
at least the ones at the Brazenski Kissinger level, right.
People who are at lower level, they don't know all
this stuff. The lower level people are well indoctrinated through
the education system to believe a lot of the bull crap. Right,
They believe in the dialectic. They believe that this and
that they don't understand black ops. They don't understand this
kind of stuff until you get, I think, up in
this higher level of people who are invited to things
like the steering group committees. Then you get people who
are a little more familiar with how this stuff really works.
People who understand, you know, what the Triladal Commission is,
and who understand the technocracy that they want to bring
in again. Islam plays a key role in being a
battering ram one hundred years ago. It played a key
role through sufism of being a kind of mystical door
to open the way for Europe and the UK to
be ISLAMI sized that then allowed for the election through
guilt manipulation, through a lot of tactics, a lot of propagation,
a lot of propaganda the media, a lot of foreign
entities using NGOs to truck in and bote in all
these people. I went to Italy a few months ago,
and several Italian cities had no Italians. In fact, we
went to Genoa. I didn't see any salami, by the way,
but in Genoa it was like I was in Africa. Literally,
it was like another there were there were no Italians
in Genoa. Pretty crazy, and the same thing has happened
to a lot of the Italian islands, which are not
Italian islands anymore now they're African islands. And it's by design.
In fact, you go read the AP articles saying that
there are we know who the foundations and the thing
tanks and the NGOs are that are doing this. It's
all public, so it just requires a little more sophisticated
thinking than dialectical thinking. I want to remind you guys
that I will be speaking next week in Nashville. You
can go to the Cognitive Libertyconference dot com. I'll be
speaking there with doctor James Lindsay and others, so you
can get your tickets there. You can get my books
at Jason Elsons dot com. At the shop, I have
two books on Hollywood and Symbolism. I have my big
fat geopolitical book, six hundred and sixty pages on my
geopolitical and theological writings. Go to the Infra War Store
and support Alex by getting those products. This is Jaydier.
Speaker 5: I want to tell you the story the history of
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Speaker 4: They get arressed with their big listeners.
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Speaker 1: Well, other networks lie to you about what's happening.
Speaker 2: Now Info Wars tells you the truth about what's happening.
Speaker 1: Next, visit info wars dot com, Forward slash show.
Speaker 2: And share the link today. Thank you. I its glad
to be here. Yeah, it seems like they have a
handful of cards that they can play at any moment,
and maybe they're hyping up. It seems like every few
days one of those cards is talked about and hyped
up in the media. So is it monkey pop, and
then a couple of days later we'll hear about economic woes.
There's going to be an economic collapse. Then a few
days later we'll hear about the possibility of war, and
the war in Ukraine getting ramped up, war in the
Middle East. It just keeps compounding, and I think any
one of these could be rolled out to forestall to delay,
to destroy the possibility of an election. Seems like they're
really pushing the open borders and internal strife within countries
as well. We've seen that with especially the UK with
Islam in the last couple of weeks, rioting and so forth,
attacking native citizens. I want to talk about that in
part because, as you guys know, the last Fourth Hour
that I did a couple of weeks ago, we covered
the whole geopolitical element of Islam and how it's being used.
And as I traveled across the country a few weeks ago,
I went to Las Vegas to do an event, and
I noticed mosques that have popped up in places that
I never would have expected, in fact, through Indian reservations,
and there's now mosques that have been built on Indian reservations.
I don't think driving through America across the country maybe
four or five times in the last ten years. I've
never seen mosques popping up. So even though we're not
at the stage yet of where the UK is, the
UK is about twenty or thirty years ahead of US.
If we continue down this route, we will see more
and more Muslim centers Islamic growth in the US. And
so today I have.
Speaker 5: Because they don't even need to bring them in if
they can convert them.
Speaker 2: Well, there's a push, right, there's a push online to
try to utilize certain figures and people in the media
to convert the West to Islam. At the same time
as there's a geopolitical push to move Islam into the
Europe and into into Europe and in the UK.
Speaker 5: As you said, Islam is the mercenary force of the globalists.
Speaker 2: It's like the front army that they're using in these
in particularly Europe, in the UK. And they've even admitted it, right,
So I've gone through multiple writings of the elite HG. Wells,
So they would use it. Merchant Russell said Islam was great,
let's use it to change Europe and they said specifically
it's really the only tool that they have in the
Arsenal geographics, demographics wise, to change the whole of Europe
and whether it's clergy. His own books say to change
the demographics of Europe to make it a socialist federation.
They're going to do the same thing in North America
now right now it's a lot of Latin South American
illegal immigrants. But they're also going to be pushing Islam
in the US as well. And so that's why I
wanted to bring on an expert on Islam, a friend
of mine, Sam Chimun. In fact, we just did a
huge debate. I ended up being a lot bigger than
I expected. We were on Fresh and Fit, and we
debated two of the top Muslims. It's already had if
you total up the clips and everything, multiple millions of
views in the last couple of days. And so my
guest is Sam Chamun, and I've known Sam for several
years now. He is an expert in Islam. He's all
over YouTube, all over TikTok. He's kind of blown up
in the last year with a lot of these debates,
and so I wanted to bring on an Islamic expert
in terms of the history and the religious views, not
just the geopolitical stuff. You want to know the geopolitical stuff.
I covered that in the last fourth hour Bellox shows
that I host to where we talked about the Fabian Socialists. Again,
I've written in many of their texts, even General Wesley Clark.
So that is that Europe would have to be destroyed
in terms of its nation states and integrated into a
giant melting pot to create the EU. Right now, the
EU was planned a long time ago, as we know,
it was a Fabian Socialist plan. But to do demographic warfare,
you got to have the right group, the right population.
So again, they're not going to pump in millions of
Muslims into the US, although there are millions of Muslims
in the US. I think there's something like six or
seven already. But what they've done in Europe is a
specific strategy, of specific technique. In fact, I mentioned that
I'd gone to Italy a few months ago. I'd never been,
was my first trip, and there were several talents. Several
cities that you go to there's no Italians. Quite literally,
Genoa had no Italians at least we were out walking
through the whole city. I never saw any I saw
a lot of Muslims, but I didn't see any native Italians.
Maybe a couple own it, running the shops or something,
but not out on the streets. A couple other cities,
it was all immigrants from Africa, illegal immigrants from Africa,
and many of whom, most of whom are Muslims and
sort of just do whatever they want. So I don't
know if we have Sam yet. As Sam on Sam,
how you doing? Welcome to the fourth hour' here with me.
I want to ask you, first of all, before we
get into the history and the theology the religion of Islam,
people should go watch our debate that we did, because
it ended up being a lot bigger than I expected.
How did you feel about that debate going into it
and then coming out of it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, glorif are God and save the Lord Jesus Christ.
I praise God for that opportunity. To be honest, I
didn't like the format, the way they set up the time,
but be that as admit, then want to complain. So
they didn't think that we're trying to make excuses to
Ron because it backfired against them. I thought, my opinion,
they got decimated. Of course I'm biased, but it was
a landslide decimation because we focus primarily in their own sources,
and if someone watches the debate, they will see they
didn't really answer any of our objections, and we tried
to our best ability to answer their objections with the
stipulated time. So overall I was pleased, though the way
it was structured was structured in their favor, and they
still lost the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think for our audience here, most people in
the West, and you know, in the last five or
six years, I've really been trying to study and learn
about Islam. I'm still far from being an expert. You
know way more than I do. So I want to
get your take on this. What are a couple of
things that people need to know about Islam? Most Christians
in America evangelicals are very we don't know much about Islam.
It's so foreign to us. It's making its encroachments in
the UK and in the EU by far way ahead
of where we are. What do we need to understand
about this religion in terms of let's start with maybe
the prophet Muhammad himself or so called prophet. What are
the things that people need to know, because we're often told, well,
he's just another prophet, kind of like Moses or Isaiah,
and he's you know, he's a preacher of against idolatry
and he preaches Monotheism. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Well, when we talk about so called prophet Muhammad, most
Christians and Jews may not be aware that, according to
Islamic tradition, he is the consummation, the fulfillment all the
Judeo Christian tradition. That's the assertion. So if anyone reads
a Koran and also read what is called the sun
of Mohammad, because Christians must keep in mind that just
like Christian he's not a monolith. Islam's not a monolith.
So there are groups within Islam, but the largest group,
about eighty five percent if not more, are identified as
Sunni Muslims, so they're the dominant group. They follow what's
called the Koran, and the Son of the Sunna is
these traditions attributed to Muhammad. So Asunni looks to not
just the Koran, but to Muhammad's interpretation of the Koran
is implementation. Dows And notes, now in line of that
Muhammad claimed to have followed in the line of the
Judeo Christian prophets, and he claims that the nearest prophet
to him among all the prophets was Jesus, so that
according to his claim, they're all Muslims. Because the term
Islam means submission and surrendered, so the theological context it
means to surrender to the one True God. So Islam
claims that Allah of the Koran is the God of Abram,
Isaac and Jacob, because Allah is simply, according to them,
the Arabic term you would use for the God of Abraham,
Isaac and Jacob, and the God revealed in Jesus. So
according to Islam, Islam is the religion practiced by Adam,
by Abram, Isaac and Jacob, by Moses, and Jesus and
his followers. In point of fact, if you go to
chapter three, verse fifty two of the kron and chapter five,
verse one hundred eleven, the Kuran has Jesus's own follower
saying to Jesus, bear witness, we are Muslims. So he
is the consummation, the fulfillment of the religion passed on
by the prophets, including Jesus, and he is the seal
of the prophets. So now with the coming. Muhammad profited ends,
messengership ends, and everyone is expected to submit to him.
So this is the agenda of Islam to bring the
entire world under the fold of Islam, so that if
you're a Jew or a Christian and you hear about Muhammad,
you must accept Muhammad because they claim he's prophesied in
our Bible, even though they'll tell you our Bible's crop.
But if you refuse to accept Muhammad, then you're allowed
to pay what is called jiza, so you can live
under the hegemony of Islam under second or third rate conditions,
and if you don't pay, they slaughter you. So this
is basically who Muhammad is, the seal of the prophets,
and everyone must follow him because he's the last and
universal messenger.
Speaker 2: Now, you did a great talk that actually fit into
what I talked about here in the fourth hour last week,
which was about the three or four stages of Islamic
jahad or invasion or a takeover. Could you maybe summarize
that for the next few minutes hear your talk there,
because if fits very well with what I talked about
last week.
Speaker 1: Exactly as you indicated, Islam is also geopolitical. It's not
just religion. It's a socio geopolitical economic system. It governs
all of life. And Muhammad believed that his God sent
him to conquer the world. In fact, there are traditions
attributed to Muhammad where he says the entire earth belongs
to a lah and his messenger, messenger being Muhammad. Now
for the non Muslims to understand these three stages, some
like the divide them into four, you have to study
the life of Muhammad. According to the Islami tradition, Muhammad
was born in Mecca, which is in Arabia around five
seventy eighty. Claimed to be a prophet six tenth, but
he was outnumbered. Mecca was in the control of the unbelievers.
They had the manpower, they had the financial prowess, so
he was a small group, him and his few followers.
During that stage stage one, he preached coexistence. He preached
to your religion, to me my religion, because he knew
he couldn't mount an offensive because they would squash him. Then,
after thirteen years in Mecca, he migrated to the north
of Mecca called Medina. Now it was actually called Yathrip
and it was a flourishing Jewish community. According to the
Muslim sources, eventually he eradicated the Jewish presence and the
Muslims took over completely. Now when he gets to Medina
thirteen years later, he's the head of state. He now
has enough manpower to now implement stage two, which is
defensive jihad. You threaten our existence, you attack us, we
have right to attack you. Then the last two years
of his life he was able to conquer Mecca, bring
the entire array, and put Insult under his control. Then
he implemented stage three. Now go spread Islam militarily offensive job.
So depending on the situation and circumstances where Muslims find themselves,
you'll find one of these stages being implemented right now
before your eyes. So in UK it's stage two, building
up to stage three. In America it's stage one, and
Muslim dominated areas it's stage three because they own pretty
much the government and the resources and they subjugate non Muslims.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great point. Now this probably relates as
well to the idea of the union with the Left.
Could you speak to that just for a minute, because
that was something I covered as well last week, was
how come Islam which seems, on the surface at least,
to be totally anti liberalism, progressivism, LGBT, all that stuff.
How is it that they make this alliance with the liberals?
Why would that? Why would liberals want an alliance with Islam?
Doesn't make any sense on the surface.
Speaker 1: Well, you know this better than I. Anyone who's an
enemy of my enemy is my friend. So Islam will
use any agenda, and the liberals will use any agenda
for the time being to accomplish their purposes. So right
now they are what we call bed buddies. But when
one of them dominates, the other one will be vanquished.
So it serves their agenda and purpose. So hey, if
I can use liberal politics to infiltrate the West and
bring in a strong Muslims until we outnumber them, so
be it. So in the meantime, as Muslims live in
the West, they will not straight up and tell you
what their agenda is. When they take control of an area,
there'll be no homosexuality, there'll be no lesbianism, there'll be
no transgenderism, because under Islamic rule, these individuals are to
be killed, and sometimes in the most heinous manners. Because
you'll find videos where in Muslim countries, homosexuals are actually
thrown off of buildings, which is their form of punishment.
So why are they working together because one group is
using the other group for the time being until they
have enough ability to then implement and impose their agenda,
and then they're going to turn against each other's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that that's a great segue to the next question,
which is we hear a lot of people online. I
hear sneakos saying this all the time. Oh, Christians and
Muslims should unite together because like Sam just said, right,
if there's an if there's a rejection of sexual degeneracy,
deviancy and all of this, wouldn't we be on the
same page to fight evil? What would you say to
people who say that Christians and Muslims should unite together
to quote fight evil.
Speaker 1: Yeah, only someone who's naive about the Islamic agenda would
unite with Muslims in order to bring about so called
Judeo Christio Islamic tradition because Muslims want to claim part
of the Judeo Christian airship. However, just look at history
and what Muslims have done to Christians. When Muslims are
the majority. Once the Muslim are the majority, Christians are
not allowed to build new churches or rebuild old ones,
or publish crosses, or come out publicly with their religious literature,
or convert Muslims to Christianity. On the other hand, Muslims
can convert Christians to Islam. Muslim men can marry Christian women,
but that right is not extended to us. So yes,
now that they're in the minority, they will appeal to
Jewish Christian sentiments and seek solidarity because it helps their
purpose for now. But once they have the upper hand,
they will subjugate and enslave anyone to the whole of Islam.
So don't you believe it? That's right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this reminds me too of what I was doing
an open forum debate the other day, and I had
a guy call in defending Islam, and he said, well,
you're all lying over here on this side, because when
I read in the Quran, there's multiple places where it
says that Christians are viewed as worshippers of Allah as well,
there are people of the book and that they're pro Christian,
they're not anti Christian, they love and allow all of
these things that are monotheistic within a Muslim society. But
that's not actually the case, because the Hadis and other
tax the traditions actually specify more than what's even in
the Quran. And I would argue that the Chrome just
simply contradicts itself. On one place that will say, yeah,
you got to respect the people of the book. But
then there's another place that says, but if they don't
agree to this Islamic doctrine, they can be put to death.
Speaker 1: Yeah, now that's part of the three stages, and this
needs to be elaborated. But I see we're coming on
to the break, so I'll try to be brief, maybe
pick it up after the break. Depending on which period
of Muhammad's life the Chrome was composed, the message will change.
So when he's a minority in Mecca, he will talk
about commonality with Jews and Christians. Then when he goes
to Medina, he still will try to reach out to
the Jews and Christians with the hopes that they'll embrace them.
But when he sees the Jews and Christians don't buy it,
then he turns against them, calls them idollar, calls them
the worst of creatures that need to be subjected and
humiliated because this is all part of this political scheme.
Try to win them and if they don't believe in Muhammad,
then when you have deprehend turn against them.
Speaker 2: So this is the ox jugle. Don't going where We will
be right back after this break.
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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the fourth hour of the Alex johnstrommerguestos
Jaydyer of jays Analysis I and reminds you that you
can get my books at Jaysnelsons dot com in the
shop signed copies. Every copy is a signed copy. I'm
here today with my guest Sam Shamun. His channel is
a Shimmunion. And of course we just did a pretty
big debate a couple of nights ago over on the
Fresh and Fit channel Fresh and Fit podcast, where we
had a three hour discussion with a couple of the
more prominent Muslim debaters. And before we went to the break,
we're just discussing the history of Islam, the history of
the strategies of geopolitical takeover that Islam uses based actually
on the life and the progression of Muhammad himself into
becoming what he thought was a prophet. Before we go
in to maybe some of the religious beliefs and contradictions themselves,
let's maybe put an end on the topic of the
history by this issue of Jahad, because a lot of
times people will say, well, really, Islam is a peaceful religion,
it doesn't actually teach physical jahad. Sam, would you like
to comment on that, because I hear this all the time,
especially from the left right. They have this image of
Islam as a religion of peace. Aren't there different senses
of jahad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, it is true, there's different senses of jihad
because jihad means struggle or to strive. However, both the
kron and the traditions that chiviti Muhammad and Islamic history
and Muslims won't deny this. They'll just try to pass
it off as defensive jihad. Jihad is also military. It's physical,
It includes an army, it includes battles, it includes physical
attack and onslaught. So when they say that jihad is
merely spiritual, they're pretty much sticking their head into sand.
They're ignoring the very context of the chron itself, and
they're ignoring also traditionstributed Muhammad and the expeditions he carried out.
There are even books about the military campaigns of Muhammad
and moreover, Islamic history. One of the last chapters of
not the last chapters of the Koran composed according to
Islamic chronology, and this is something all serious students of
Islam must know. The Churn is divided into two periods,
the Mecan period where Muhammad was a minority, and the
Medeanan period when he's the majority. You'll see the tone
changes from the Meccan to Medeanan period. Mecan period to
you your religion, to me my religion. Medean and parent period.
They harassed you. Now you can fight back and now
spread Islam and subjugate the world. This chapter, chapter nine,
if it's not the last chapter, it's one of the
last chapters composed all of the other chapters of the Koran,
begins with the formula in the name of the Law,
the most Merciful, the most beneficent. This is the only
chapter that doesn't begin without formula. Because the Muslim commentators
say this chapter doesn't offer any mercy, it doesn't offer
a compassion. It is a warning to the idolators Jews
and Christians, submit or else or else. And if anyone
reads chapter nine, verses twenty eight to thirty three, just
that small section there, Muhammad is inciting the Jihadis to
fight against Jews and Christians, not because the Jews and
Christians attack them. Go read it. It's right there contextually,
go read the commentaries. It's because of their belief. The
grounds of subjugating is because Mohammed accuses the Jews of
believing Ezra is the son of a Lah blasphemy according
to Islam, taking their rabbis as lords. Besides a Lah
blasphem according to Slam. Christians believe that Jesus, son of
God blasphemy according to Islam, and they take their monks
as lords, and for that reason they need to be attacked,
become Muslim or pages and feel humiliated. So this notion
there is no such thing as physical jiad, I don't know.
I guess the color of the sky in there world
is purple.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Let's move on to some of the theological issues,
some of the beliefs that are on and at odds
with Christianity. I think two of the most glaring that
you often highlight is, first of all, is probably the
Islamic dilemma as it's known, which is that the Quran
many times over, actually says that you can look to
prior revelation in the Bible to confirm this teaching of
the Quran However, when we go to the Bible, of course,
it teaches the Trinity, it teaches the deity of Christ,
which the Quran says is idolatry and polytheism. So clearly
the Bible doesn't teach the Koran. And then the dilemma is, then, well,
how would I go to a book that you believe
is corrupt to confirm the new revelation? Right? How could
a corrupt thing confirm the new thing? So basically they're
on the horns of a dilemma. Could you speak to that?
I know you've heard a lot of have you ever
heard a Muslim give a good response to this?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not. In fact, that was one of our main
arguments in the debate, and you saw what happened. They
floundered like fish out of water.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Yes, if you study the Koran and the tradition true
to Muhammad, and you just study them, not later Muslim
interpretation or later Muslim spin on the sources. The Koran
clearly provides one line of evidence for Muhammad's messenger ship,
and that Muhammad and his Koran confirm agree with the
scriptures and the possession of the Jews and Christians. Now,
historically we know that the only scriptures Jews and Christians
have had at the time Muhammad, before Muhammad, even before
Christ with the discovery Dead Sea Scrolls, are the scriptures
you and I read today. So courting Muhammad, those scriptures
are uncorrupt, those scriptures preserved by his God of law,
and that the sign of his prophetood is that his
Koran agrees with those scriptures. So he's calling the Jews
and Christians, hey, accept me. Why my Korn agrees with
your scriptures. The problem is when the Jews and Christians
told Muhammad, no, you don't. You don't agree with our scriptures.
Your theology doesn't agree with our scriptures. Your Koran doesn't.
He then blamed them for misinterpreting, not corrupting the text.
You go to chapter three, ver. Seven eight of the Koran.
It says they twist with their tongues the words and
remove them with their tongues from right places. So that
was Muhammed's argument. It wasn't that you corrupted the book.
It's your misinterpreting the book. So if you let me
interpret the book, then you'll become Muslim. In fact, that
happened in our debate. If you remember with the Jazz
at the end, what did he say, Yes, this corrupt
Bible that he was trashing confirms Muhammed as a prophet.
And I go, oh, you mean the same corrupt Bible.
He goes, oh, yeah, the Bible is true when it
agrees with our theology. If you remember that he did
that in debate. So is the precisely circle reasoning. This
destroys Islam in that if Muhammad says the Bible is true,
and the Bible shows that Muhammad's doctrines are false, the
gig is up. Mahm is a false prophet. But if
they say the Bible is corrupt, that means they're disagreeing
with Muhammad. That means they know more than Muhammad Mad
is wrong. The gig is up. Mahmad is a false
prophet them if you do, damn if you don't.
Speaker 2: Another thing that I think many Christians and people in
the West don't know is the history of the attempt
to create a single Choranic version. I didn't know this
until I really started looking into Islam a few years ago.
This is the whole history of Uthman and the burning.
And they often make this argument that, well, we have
a perfectly preserved history of the Quran. The Bible has
a lot of thousands of manuscripts from the first few centuries. Therefore,
we have a superior revelation, which itself is actually fraudulent
because if the argument is that it needs to be
closer to the time of the revelation to be accurate, well,
the Gospels are actually far closer to the time of
Christ than the Quran is. So why would we expect
the Quran to give us accurate history of Christ. Their
very argument undercuts the history of the Quran itself because
it's far away. It's much further from the time of
Christ than the Gospels are. We're supposed to believe that
this is somehow a better accurate representation of what Jesus taught.
Somehow could you tell us about the history of the
burning of the of the texts precisely?
Speaker 1: Again, this is all based on Muslim sources, not Islamophobic literature.
For example, as I mentioned earlier, the largest sect of
Islam would be the Sunni sect, so they followed the
Krown on Sunna. They have a set of traditions that
they have classified whether sound absolutely reliable, good, weak, or forgeries.
The information I'm giving is based on what they deem
to be the most authentic sound narrations that they claim
can go back to Mahmed said Bukhati Sahei Muslim and others.
According to their sources, when Muhammad died, his own companions
people that followed Muhammad learned the Koran from Muhammad were
now writing down what they learned from Muhammad in manuscripts,
their version of the Koran, and they were in conflict.
The differences were so bad. And by the way, for
the Muslims who think I'm lying, I'll even give you
the reference if you go online dot com. Saihel Burghari
volume six numbers five oh nine, five ten. That's all
you need to remember, said Bukati, volume six number five
one zero, and then read five zero nine before you
read five one zero, And there it says that the
differences were so great and these are Korans written down
by Mohammed's companions that they almost came to blows because
they're accusing the others of corrupting the Kuran. So much
for memorization preserving the Koran, because that's another canard. Well,
they memorized the Koran and preserved it well. Mohmed's companions
when they wrote down what they memorized full of contradictions.
So the third kleph Othman Ibenafhan, third Kliph decided and
this is around six fifty eighty. Now this is according
to Sunny tradition. If you go to Orientalist scholars or
Islamit dollars who are not committed to the Sunni tradition,
they don't believe much of these traditions. They believe it's
forgeries because the sources that contain these traditions are nearly
twenty years remove from the time of Muhammed's reported life,
so they take them with a pinch of salt. But
with that said, Uthman decided to standardize one Qoran, a
Quran compiled by a man named zaiath itbin Thabit. Now
Zayad converted to Islam years later after Muhammad had went
to Medina, and so he decided to standardize that Koran. Now,
there were other Muslims who had been Muslims from the
time of Mecca way before Zayad. One in particular, name Abdullah,
had been Masudd. He learned the Koran, he mastered its recitation,
and even Mohamad's companions say, among all the Muslims. He
and another man named Obi were the best. When he
wrote down the Koran. His Koran contradicted Zayath's and he
refused to give it up. Othman demanded they be burned.
He didn't want to. It got to the point that
Uthman insulted this man of the Llah, who was a
companion of Muhammad, and they were companions in sided aright,
he got beat He had his ribs broken because of it.
So Othman decided, this is the Koran, will follow. All
the other korans need to be burned. Who gave him
the authority to burn down korans that Muhammad's own companions
learned from Muhammad directly? Thank God, No no Christian ever
had a Christian uthman doing that to the Bible. But
then it gets worse. That's so called amonic recension. When
it was transmitted, it came down to the Muslims in
twenty five at least twenty five different Arabic variant forms
of that withmonic text. Three hundred years after death Muhammad,
a man named edbin Mujah had decided, I'm going to
standardize seven of the twenty five once again, by what
authority is not a prophet, he's not a messenger who
gave him that right, So even Muslims will admit that
the present Arabic Koran, you can't trace it any earlier
than Utman. And even then they have at least seven
different Arabic variants that are not one hundred percent consistent
with one another. So much for perfect reservation, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And by the way, even if theoretically there were
perfect preservation, I mean, error can be perfectly preserved as well,
so it wouldn't necessarily prove anything even if we're the case,
and of course it's not the case according to the
hot deeds. Now, could you speak maybe a little bit
to this issue of well, isn't Iran as a Shia
version of Islam versus Sunni Because the reason I bring
that up is well, when we listen to a lot
of the debates, it's usually sold in the West as
a very simple, easy to understand religion, and everybody can
get behind the idea that God is won. But they
always downplay the fact that no Muslims have been fighting
each other for centuries, and they fight each other over
a very minutia that, in their own view would be
the attributes of a Llah does all I have a
hand to shin a foot. They'll go to blows, they'll
go to war over that. But they present it in
the West like, well, we all agree, we're all united
on there being one Islam. Yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and Iran, as you said, they identify with the
Shia sect, which is the second largest sect of Islam.
And like I said, over eighty percent some would even
push a close nine identified with sun Islam. And I
have to be careful. Just because someone says he or
she is a Sunni doesn't mean they understand the tradition.
You have a lot of Christians understand the traditions. So
I'm just saying statistically they would identify with this version
of Slam, doesn't mean they're educated. Now that Shia are
the intellectual heirs of a group of Muslims that started
flourishing in the seven hundreds eight hundreds called the Muteslites
the Mattzida, So they are the heirs of that particular group. Now,
the Metesolites were heavily influenced by Aristatalian Neo Platonic philosophy logic,
and that's your forte. Now, the Metesolites, because of the
influence of Aristatlian logic denied any real distinct attributes in
the essence of their God a law. The other group
that wasn't trained in Greek philosophy logic affirmed that Allah
has an essence that and he has attributes, and the
attributes are not identical to the essence, and the attributes
are not identical to one and one of those attributes
happens to be the Koran because the chron is the
speech of Allah. So they reason if the Chroanu is
speech of all that's uncreated. The other group said, you're polytheists.
If you're saying that Allah has distinct attributes and they're
not identical, and the chron is one of them, you're
now destroying absolute unicity, and you're doing what the Christians
are doing. In fact, they even level this charge. You're
saying to the Koran. What the Christians say about Jesus,
Jesus is the logos the world who became flesh. You're
saying the logos or the Kalam the word became a book.
So you're not true monotheist. And depending on who was
in power, there's something in Islamic tradition and I want
the non Muslims to confirm to see if I'm lying.
It's called the Mehnah Mehnah around the eight hundreds, the
Calyphs were Muteslites. You had cal Mun. He was imprisoning,
torturing and killing any Muslim who said the churn is uncreated,
and then followed by successor and Muttim who did the same.
So they e imprison and kill Muslims depending on their
view of the essence of all law the attributes in
the Koran. So this claimed that all law is absolutely
one and there's no disagreement that does not chide with
their own Islamic sources.
Speaker 2: Yeah, even in the debate they downplayed that fact, acting
as if they're all on the same page, and of
course they're not. In fact, there's even disagreements on how
to rule on the moral matters. So Islam is not
this unified thing, but they sell it as a very
simple unified thing in the West. Is the key point here. Now,
another issue that really seems to I think rattle a
lot of people is the comparison of the morality between
Christ and Muhammad. And when people really look into that,
that seems to shake people. More than a lot of
the more high theological topics. Could you talk about the
comparison between the morality of Muhammad versus what Christ taught.
And then, for example, we just saw in Iraq they
just passed a law to be able to marry at
age nine, could you speak to some of these issues.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. In fact, I can confirm most Muslims leave Islam
because of the morality of Muhammad. So if you want
to get Muslims to leave Muhammad, it's the morality issue,
not so much theological issue. And so what's the problem
with Muhammad and Jesus? Well, let me start with Muhammad.
The reason why Iraq passed that law. Again, according to
the so called authentic traditions attributed to Muhammad and the Koran.
In chapter sixty five, verse four of the Koran, there
there's legislation governing on what you do when you marry miners.
It even says the women who have not yet had
their periods jahna, meaning they are so young, they are premature,
and yet they're being married off. The men are consummating
the marriage. I know, I got to keep it derated.
They're forcing them, So how long should they wait to
be remarried? So Islam sanctions pedophilia. It's there. In fact,
if you go to the four main Islamic schools of
prudence and Sunny Islam, they tell you the only condition
for marriage for a girl is if she can handle penetration,
and that varies from age to age. I mean, I
know it's sick. I don't know what I can say
on the show, but absolutely sick, meaning she can be
as young as six or seven, but if she can't
handle weight, be gentle until she can handle penetration. Why
because their example is Muhammad. According to the tradition, Muhammad
i Aisha. Aisha was the daughter of his so called
best friend. She was six years old when he wrote
the marriage contract, but he had to wait till nine
to consummate it because that's the age where she can
handle penetration. So puberty for them is when you can
handle penetration by a grown man. And Mahmed is fifty
four years old. So this is one gross practice not
only Muhammad carried out, but it's in the Koran, which
is why Muslims who want to follow strictly the Shittia
cannot condemn marriages to nine year olds. They can't do
it because they're condemning Muhammad. So that's one second thing
Muhammad did, and this is not as well known. Muhammad
had an adopted son named Zayd. He adopted him, he
married him. All the Musdom sources say that one day
Muhammed saw his adopted son's wife and he started lusting
for her, and she noticed that he was drawn to
her beauty. She told her husband. He then went to
his adoptive father and said, look, I'll divorce her for
your say no, no, no, keeper divorced her anyway. And
then a verse comes down in the Crime, chapter thirty three,
verse thirty seven, saying, you hit Muhammad. What we're about
to make known that we wanted you to marry her?
Why now, notice the logic of a luh. We wanted
you to set precedence. What's the precedence that when he
divorces her, you marry her so there'll be no fault
and adoptive fathers marrying the divorce wives of the adopted sons.
Now tell me how sick that is. You have an
adopted son, he divorces his wife, you take her to bed.
Now she becomes his stepmother. But this is a snum.
Now it gets even worse. Shortly thereafter, Allah abolishes adoption.
He goes, there's no more adoption, Zaida, is no more
your son? Stop calling them your son? Why? To save
face because people kept attacking him saying, how could you
take your son's wife? Well, he's not really my son
after all, and I am adoption. But wait, Jay, you
know logic better than me. I thought the reason why
he married his adopted son's wife was to set a
precedence that other adoptive fathers could marry the wives of
their adopted sons when they're divorced. But if Allah's all knowing,
didn't Allah know he was going to then abolish adoption later,
So what kind of example of he's setting when adoption
is now canceled? And then noticed the inhumanity because of
Muhammad's lust. Muslims cannot adopt orphans, and orphans cannot be
adopted into Holmes because adoption is not permitted in Islam.
And yet the God revealed in Jesus loves adoption. He
adopts us as his sons and daughters. So adoption is
part of the Christian heritage. So these are just some
of the aspects. I can go a little more, but
if you wanted to say some before I give you
another example, Well, I.
Speaker 2: Mean it reminds me too of just you know, sort
of fundamental contradictions you're talking about logic. You know, Muslims believe,
for example, that Jesus was a worshiper of Allah, and
yet we have multiple times, many many times throughout the Gospels,
Christ claims to be the son of God. Of course,
in the Kuran we're told that Allah has no sons.
So how could Allah be the god of Jesus when
Jesus says many many times over that he's the son
of God and that we become sons of God. That
proves that Allah is not the God of Jesus. And
so Jesus is not in any continuity with Islam. So
I mean, I know this is getting back into the theological issues,
but it's another contrast on that point of sons and
adoption and grace that of course Islam does not believe.
Speaker 1: In precisely, and just to piggyback for what you said,
to say that Jesus un of God is one of
the grounds for Muslims to carry out jihad Christians, that's
chapter nine, verse twenty nine. If you say Jesus, son
of a Law. That is one of the reasons why
Muslims must carry out jihad on Christian lands and subjugate them,
because that's the height of blasphemy, because the highest relationship
a person can have with a law is a slave
to master relationship. And therefore Jesus says, if all you
are is a slave, you have no permanent place in
the master's house. So it's not just theological, it even
affects the political, social, economic atmosphere that we live in,
because that's the reason why Muslims cannot rest until the
West is subjugated to the rule of Islam. And stop
this nonsense of saying Jesus's godson and we're the sons
and daughters of God. Now I can mention another ask God,
do you want to say something before?
Speaker 2: Well, I was just going to say that this reminds
me of that. I don't know if you saw that
clip of a sneak O and Muhammad Job where Sneako
asked Muhammed Job at the topic came up of what's
worse a Christian or somebody who's living in homosexual relationships,
and Muhammed a Job said that it's actually worse to
be a Christian, and everybody was surprised at this, which
I think demonstrates why you could never have Chris Loam.
And this melding of the two is because they believe
the idolatry within Christianity, believing in that Jesus, the Son
of God, is worse than a homosexual situation.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that's one hundred percent on them, the worst blasphemy
because homosexuality can be forgiven. But when you commit what
they call shirk, associating a partner with Allah like he
has a divine son, Allah will never forgive that. So
they were being faithful to their religious texts. So absolutely right.
In Islam, homosexualities heinous, but you can repent. But if
you openly profess Jesus' God's son, that is a sin
that's much more heinous and Allah will not forgive you.
So exactly spot on now one more aspect, because this
is not just theological, it's not just in the realm
with theology. It's being carried out right now by Isis,
by al Qaeda, Bokoharam you name it. In chapter four
of US twenty four of the kron Muslims are allowed
if they're carrying out military expeditions and go ask the
survivors in Iraq or Syria the levant They saw this
with their own eyes. A Jihati when he attacks the place,
can take a woman, even a married woman. This is
in the krown in the tradition, even if she's married,
and then he can can I say the word rap
grape because I don't know. Okay, great great per, okay,
great per, he can great per even married, because when
he takes her captive, that nullifies her marriage. Great Brett
will and sell her off. This is what's happening now
in places like Afghanistan and Nigeria. So it's not just
theological folks. We're talking about stuff that actually impacts our
lives today. And there are women who have been taken captive,
even married women, and have been great because this is
what all his messenger condone, something condemned even in the
Old Testament in Jano twenty one ten or fourteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to thank you for joining me today, Sam,
this was a great conversation. Any of the last last
thirty forty seconds. You want to tell us things about
Islam and then maybe where people can find you and
what you would recommend yes.
Speaker 1: You can find me on my YouTube channel Shamunian. I'm
also on Rumble It's Answering Islam. I also have a
blog where you can find articles with all these references.
They're free of charge. Answering Islam Blog, Answering Islamblog dot
WordPress dot com. The only thing I'd want to say
is I don't want to generalize in the sense that
I'm not saying every Muslim believes us. Most Muslims are
ignorant of their tradition. In fact, the women and children
are actually victims of the Islamic system. We need to
do all we can to stop Islam and set these
people free, and the only way to do so is
through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, our Lord, our God
and Savior and King. And I love you, brother, Thank
you for having me.
Speaker 2: All right, Thank you? Everybody. Be sure and head over
to the forced store and buy those products to support
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