Speaker 1: Lucky Land Casino asking people what's the weirdest place you've
Speaker 1: gotten lucky?
Speaker 2: Lucky in line at the Delhi I.
Speaker 1: Guess ah, in my dentist's office more than once.
Speaker 3: Actually do I have to say?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 3: You do?
Speaker 1: In the car before my kid's pta meeting?
Speaker 5: Really?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 1: Excuse me?
Speaker 3: What's the weirdest place you've gotten lucky?
Speaker 6: I never win?
Speaker 4: And tell well, there you have it.
Speaker 1: You could get lucky anywhere playing at lucky landslots dot
Speaker 1: com play for free right now?
Speaker 4: Are you feeling lucky? Nobrig just necesaryfoid.
Speaker 3: We're gonna be my long eighteen plus terms conditions of
Speaker 3: pluck seems every details it.
Speaker 1: Is Ryan here and I have a question for you.
Speaker 1: What do you do when you win?
Speaker 7: Like?
Speaker 1: Are you at fist pumper, a wooo, a handclapp or
Speaker 1: a high fiver? I kind of like the high five.
Speaker 1: But if you want to hone in on those winning moves,
Speaker 1: check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com choose some
Speaker 1: hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to
Speaker 1: redeem serious cash prizes. There are new game releases weekly,
Speaker 1: plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait. Start having the
Speaker 1: most fun ever at Chumbuck Casino dot com.
Speaker 3: No just nessary void where ever if I lost e
Speaker 3: terms is eating.
Speaker 5: Dan knows Rona is the place for spring projects, but
Speaker 5: he doesn't always know when he's exaggerating.
Speaker 4: You know my garden's so big it has two postal codes? Really?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah?
Speaker 5: Well during Rona, Spring is on event until Wednesday. Get
Speaker 5: great deals like Miracle Grow twenty eight point three liter
Speaker 5: premium potting mix for only seven forty nine and Scott's
Speaker 5: forty two point five liter nature Scape Cedar mulch for
Speaker 5: just four forty nine.
Speaker 4: I also built a shed that's bigger than my house.
Speaker 5: Shot now at Rona or Orona dot Ca. Conditions apply
Speaker 5: Rona for those who know Spring is in the air,
Speaker 5: which means we have tons of deals at Lowsa Spring.
Speaker 3: The smell of rain and soil, hope and optimism. I
Speaker 3: sent No amount of chemical wizardry can replicate. Can you
Speaker 3: smell the deals at Low's because it's Springfest until Wednesdays.
Speaker 3: Celebrate and say.
Speaker 8: Big on items like a ten foot.
Speaker 3: Umbrella for ninety nine dollars or Cil three and one
Speaker 3: enriched soil for only three forty nine, with savings like
Speaker 3: these you'll know Spring is here. Conditions apply, Shop now
Speaker 3: at Low's or Lows Dotz.
Speaker 8: You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking
Speaker 8: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 8: written about them Geese, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 8: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 8: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your
Speaker 8: host journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
Speaker 7: Good Evening. Faulkner County native Red Hall was a serial
Speaker 7: killer who confessed to murdering at least twenty four people.
Speaker 7: Most of his victims were motorists who picked him up
Speaker 7: as a hitchhiked across the United States in the closing
Speaker 7: of World War Two. He beat his wife to death
Speaker 7: and went on a killing spree across the state. His
Speaker 7: signature smile lured his victims to their doom, and even
Speaker 7: after his capture, he maintained a friendly manner, being described
Speaker 7: by one lawman as a pleasant conversationalist. Author Janie Nesbit
Speaker 7: Jones chronicles his life for the first time and explores
Speaker 7: reasons why he became Arkansas's hitchhike killer. The book that
Speaker 7: we're featuring this evening is the Arkansas Hitchhike Killer James
Speaker 7: Wyburn Redhall with my special guest journalist and author Janie
Speaker 7: Nesbit Jones. Welcome to the program, and thank you very
Speaker 7: much for this interview. Jane Nesbit Jones, thank you so much.
Speaker 7: Thank you so much for this joining me for this
Speaker 7: incredible tale. Let's talk about this is set in a
Speaker 7: Faulkner County, Arkansas. Maybe you can tell us just a
Speaker 7: little bit about where this is and this is ironically
Speaker 7: called Happy Valley. So tell us where in Nola and
Speaker 7: Faulkner County, Arkansas, and just set the stage four we're
Speaker 7: talking about the whole family and the Ingram families, tell
Speaker 7: us a little bit about their settling in Happy Valley.
Speaker 2: Okay. Fartner County is just north of Pulaski County, where
Speaker 2: the state capital, Little Rock is, and Enola is a
Speaker 2: part of Fartner County. It's a little town and there
Speaker 2: were several communities around Enola back in the old days,
Speaker 2: back in the eighteen hundreds, one of which was Happy Valley.
Speaker 2: It was just a small community like a lot of others,
Speaker 2: and people were mostly in agricultural type situations. The business
Speaker 2: was usually centered around agriculture, and I said something about
Speaker 2: Iola and that area in particular seemed to have It
Speaker 2: seems to have an unusual number of people who lived
Speaker 2: for a long time, even past one hundred. But anyway,
Speaker 2: Happy Valley is. It was one of those small communities
Speaker 2: sort of connected. Imola was a social hub. That's where
Speaker 2: the post office was. And the Hall and Ingram families
Speaker 2: moved into that area in eighteen hundreds and became neighbors,
Speaker 2: and then they became more than neighbors when Samuel Jerome
Speaker 2: Hall married Eva Lorraine Ingram. They had ten children, one
Speaker 2: of whom was Red. His name was James Wyburn, but
Speaker 2: everybody called him Red because he had beautiful red hair,
Speaker 2: wavy red hair, and his father was a preacher and
Speaker 2: farmer who was a strict disciplinarian. Especially with Red. I
Speaker 2: don't know if it was because Red was just more playful,
Speaker 2: more of an explorer. It probably got into trouble more,
Speaker 2: but his father was unusually strict with him. He did
Speaker 2: physically and verbally and psychologically abuse Red. And this was
Speaker 2: told to me by Red's cousin, Connie. Her name was
Speaker 2: Carnella Hall, and everybody called her Connie. She married a
Speaker 2: mister Weir Connie Weir, So she told me a lot
Speaker 2: about the childhood. She said that her father was very,
Speaker 2: very nice, but Red's father was not. She called him
Speaker 2: El diablo, preacher with horns, or a devil right, And
Speaker 2: she saw one time how physically abusive Samuel laws with Red.
Speaker 2: He just beat him terribly, and sometimes it seemed to
Speaker 2: be over nothing. So Rennett started wandering away from home.
Speaker 2: He would wander around the county and his father would
Speaker 2: go drag him back home, and that made his father
Speaker 2: even matter at him. And then as he grew older,
Speaker 2: he started wandering even farther away around the state. Now,
Speaker 2: when he was about twelve years old, he suffered a
Speaker 2: head injury. Most say it was a farming accident, but
Speaker 2: some people wondered if his father had hit him a
Speaker 2: little too hard and what's too often, But it was
Speaker 2: a serious injury because Red he just well, he was unconscious.
Speaker 2: He was knocked unconscious and was out for quite a while,
Speaker 2: and people said he was just never really the same
Speaker 2: after that. But anyway, as he was growing up, when
Speaker 2: he became a teenager, he started wandering on to other
Speaker 2: states and he would be gone for weeks at a time.
Speaker 2: Then one day in nineteen thirty eight, he met his
Speaker 2: wife to be. Her name was Walsey McKee, and then
Speaker 2: met a church. And Walsey was a shy, naive young girl.
Speaker 2: She never went to dances or anything like that, so
Speaker 2: she had led a very sheltered life. But she was
Speaker 2: attracted to Red because he had been to all these
Speaker 2: other places, and she just got absorbed in the stories
Speaker 2: that he would tell her about these places he had been,
Speaker 2: and he asked her to marry him. They had seen
Speaker 2: each other for quite a while and then they decided
Speaker 2: to get married. Well, her mother, Amanda McKee, moved in
Speaker 2: with them, and that kind of irned Red. But the
Speaker 2: problem still mainly was Red's wandering ways. During the time
Speaker 2: he was married to Walsey, he would still go off
Speaker 2: and be gone for a long time. She and her
Speaker 2: mother would be left to do the farm chores, and
Speaker 2: she would sometimes have to ask her in laws for
Speaker 2: help in bringing in the crops and things like that.
Speaker 2: In nineteen forty one, around Christmas time, Red happened to
Speaker 2: be home. He knew that their baby, their first baby,
Speaker 2: was due, so they called the doctor and unfortunately, the
Speaker 2: baby was a still birth. He died at birth, and
Speaker 2: while the doctor was tending to Walsey, Red had some
Speaker 2: sort of fit that he had been sitting on a
Speaker 2: couch and then when the doctor told him that things
Speaker 2: were not going well and that they would be losing
Speaker 2: the baby, Red fell off the couch and the doctor
Speaker 2: said when he got back up, his eyes were twitching,
Speaker 2: and then he just sat there quietly. So anyway, they
Speaker 2: did lose that first child, and then she was okay, Well,
Speaker 2: she was okay, and things went back to normal, which
Speaker 2: meant that, yeah, Red was wandering away again. And then
Speaker 2: I will say they did have a second child who lived.
Speaker 2: But at one point they finally decided that it just
Speaker 2: wasn't working out, although it was Red who actually wanted
Speaker 2: the divorce, so they did. Red and Wallsey divorced and
Speaker 2: he moved on. But he had been still in one
Speaker 2: place just long enough to be drafted because at that
Speaker 2: time World War two. This was in like I said,
Speaker 2: late nineteen thirties, and by this time it was the
Speaker 2: early forties, and the services they needed more men to
Speaker 2: fight the war.
Speaker 7: So he was.
Speaker 2: Drafted by the Navy, but after six weeks they let
Speaker 2: him go. Yes, they discharged him, and they said the
Speaker 2: reason was indifference. He didn't know what that meant. Apparently
Speaker 2: they didn't explain it, but he was just happy about it.
Speaker 2: So he was free to go his own way. And
Speaker 2: he met a young lady named Fayvorne Clemens, and he
Speaker 2: fell in love with her, and she was very attracted
Speaker 2: to him, so they got married. Let's see, they were
Speaker 2: married in March nineteen forty four. And she was not
Speaker 2: anything like Lawsy. She was headstrong, independent, curious, and when
Speaker 2: he wanted to go somewhere, she wanted to.
Speaker 7: Go with him.
Speaker 2: So on one trip they went up to Oregon together
Speaker 2: and that I'll bring that back up a little later.
Speaker 2: But it was a rocky marriage really from the start.
Speaker 2: He was rough and he would hit her and her family,
Speaker 2: which consisted of her parents and she had a sister,
Speaker 2: Ima Jane. They would see her with bruises all the
Speaker 2: time when they would come when she would go back
Speaker 2: home to their farm, and so they knew that he
Speaker 2: was roughing her up. She tried leaving him once. In fact,
Speaker 2: she did leave him once and she stayed with a
Speaker 2: friend for a little while, but then she decided to
Speaker 2: give it one more chance, so she went back to it.
Speaker 2: They were living in a little apartment behind a grocery store,
Speaker 2: and she wanted to go out. She enjoyed, not she
Speaker 2: wasn't a social butterfly, but she just enjoyed a good time.
Speaker 2: So one night she wanted to go to this place.
Speaker 2: It was called the Rainbow Garden. The Rainbow Garden was
Speaker 2: a ballroom that sat atop what they called the largest
Speaker 2: gas station in the world. It was called a five
Speaker 2: five five buildings because there was the big letters are
Speaker 2: big figures, numbers numerals. I guess we should say five
Speaker 2: five five. That was the telephone number for that gas station.
Speaker 2: The gas station was located on the ground floor, of course,
Speaker 2: and then they had one floor that was given over
Speaker 2: to cars where people could park their cars or rent
Speaker 2: cars and things like that. And then, like I said,
Speaker 2: the top floor where was the ballroom. And she just
Speaker 2: loved that place. They ring loved that place. So she
Speaker 2: decided one Thursday night in September to ask her friend
Speaker 2: Katie Bryant to go with her and read that night
Speaker 2: because it was ladies' night at the Rainbow Garden. So
Speaker 2: Katie said sure, and they picked her up and they
Speaker 2: went and danced and had a good time. At midnight,
Speaker 2: though Red wanted to leave and Katie really needed to
Speaker 2: because she worked, so Theyrene wanted to go down in
Speaker 2: the elevator because she was wearing new shoes and they
Speaker 2: were hurting her feet, but Red insisted on going down
Speaker 2: the stairs and they started sniping at each other and
Speaker 2: he got rough, so they went out to the car.
Speaker 2: They finally got down and she told Red, she said,
Speaker 2: I won't leave you with you and he slapped her. Well,
Speaker 2: she went ahead and got in the car and Katie
Speaker 2: got on the outside. She sat up front and read
Speaker 2: got in and they took Kadie home. They dropped her off,
Speaker 2: and that was the last time anybody saw Irene alive.
Speaker 7: Now, let's go backwards just a little bit, because we've
Speaker 7: missed a couple things for our audience in terms of
Speaker 7: her friend Muriel Stevenson, and this is just previous to this.
Speaker 7: A few days before, Muriel Stevenson goes to Hall's apartment
Speaker 7: and Red isn't there, So she talks with Firine and
Speaker 7: Farine shows her something. What is that that she shows her?
Speaker 7: And what's so unusual about what she did show her?
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, she had an if they had a new dress,
Speaker 2: and it was unusual. It was a two piece, it
Speaker 2: was red. But the unusual thing about it was how
Speaker 2: the closures were. They weren't just regular buttons. They were
Speaker 2: these little closures. It's sort of hard to describe it.
Speaker 2: They looked like one person described them as looking like
Speaker 2: tiny little swords or nails or something like that that
Speaker 2: used had to slip through something else. So they were
Speaker 2: in unique. They'd never seen anything like that. And Muriel,
Speaker 2: Muriel was also Fay's sister in law, and they would
Speaker 2: go shopping together. And besides the dress, she tried on
Speaker 2: those shoes that I was talking about, because on launched
Speaker 2: a shopping trip with Muriel. She had bought those shoes
Speaker 2: and she was trying to break them in. So anyway,
Speaker 2: Muriel and I had a pretty good visit that Sunday.
Speaker 2: But that was Yes, that was the introduction to the
Speaker 2: to the outfit. One thing that helped identify her remains later.
Speaker 7: Okay, let's go back to the evening in question. When
Speaker 7: they drop off Katie, she sees this altercation, this this
Speaker 7: heated argument between them, and words have said. What are
Speaker 7: some of the things that were said that Katie heard
Speaker 7: in the exchange between you know, Well.
Speaker 2: One thing Red was always mad about was he thought
Speaker 2: that they was too extravagant. He drove a cat, he
Speaker 2: was a cab driver and he made pretty good money,
Speaker 2: but he accused of being a spend thrip. That was
Speaker 2: one thing. And then she had there were words spoken
Speaker 2: about going that was really more Red though later on
Speaker 2: I was going to say about going to the coast.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they had an argument. So Katie knew about
Speaker 2: all this when they dropped her off.
Speaker 7: And then.
Speaker 2: If you want me to go on.
Speaker 7: That night, we talk about Muriel. You talk about Muriel
Speaker 7: the next morning, So tell us what Muriel does and
Speaker 7: and what happens with the rest of Faye's family afterwards
Speaker 7: in the following days.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Muriel calls Red. Let's see that was that
Speaker 2: Muriel had seen her on Thursday was the last time.
Speaker 2: That was when Katie Bryant saw her for the affray
Speaker 2: for the last time. And then Muriel calls Red that
Speaker 2: by day I believe it was, and Red says she's
Speaker 2: not there and he doesn't know where she is. So
Speaker 2: that alerted Muriel. And also there were three cousins of
Speaker 2: those who were coming up from Pine Bluff, Arkansas to
Speaker 2: visit say, but again Red said that she was gone,
Speaker 2: and that's how her family, the Clemens family, found out
Speaker 2: that she was she was missing because they knew that
Speaker 2: she would never take off, just take off like that
Speaker 2: and not contact her family. They were a close family
Speaker 2: and she talked to them often, so they knew something
Speaker 2: was wrong. So her mother and i'ma Jean, her sister,
Speaker 2: went to the Little Rock Police Department to talk to
Speaker 2: the chief of detectives there O N. Martin, and they
Speaker 2: told him what had happened and that well, she was married.
Speaker 2: They started talking about Red and Martin said, well have
Speaker 2: you have you talked to him? And they said, well,
Speaker 2: we've tried that he's never a rent. So after they left,
Speaker 2: the chief there sent to detectives. One was Herbert Peterson
Speaker 2: and the other one jud. His name was Detective jud
Speaker 2: So Peterson and Hudd went to the taxi stand where
Speaker 2: Red worked, and so that got things moving a little bit.
Speaker 2: Because you may be able to run from family members,
Speaker 2: which you can't run from the cops. They're gonna keep
Speaker 2: on until they find you. So he just told them
Speaker 2: that fay Rain had left and gone to the coast.
Speaker 2: But see, the thing was her clothes were still at
Speaker 2: home in their little apartment. Her clothes were still there,
Speaker 2: so that indicated she hadn't packed. If she had left,
Speaker 2: she hadn't packed. So anyway, the cops taught to read
Speaker 2: and who doesn't really give us satisfactory answer except for
Speaker 2: saying that she left for the coast. And they say,
Speaker 2: you mean And they say, how did that happen? What
Speaker 2: happened that night? And he said, well, we got home
Speaker 2: and they were arguing. We were arguing, and then I
Speaker 2: just went on to bed, and let's see. He gets up,
Speaker 2: he says, this is what he tells the cops. He
Speaker 2: gets up and he realizes theye's not there. He goes
Speaker 2: through a couple of the rooms. It's a small apartment,
Speaker 2: and she's just not there. But he goes back to bed,
Speaker 2: and they say, your wife disappears and you go back
Speaker 2: to bed. But there you begin to see how Red
Speaker 2: had strange ways of thinking.
Speaker 7: He was.
Speaker 2: He was a combination. He was a complex, complicated person.
Speaker 2: And I do theorize in the book. I said his
Speaker 2: defense attorney that accident that occurred when he was twelve
Speaker 2: years old affected him somehow that it caused brain damage,
Speaker 2: and that is entirely possible.
Speaker 7: I think.
Speaker 2: He seems to have no impulse control, which might lead
Speaker 2: to you to think about the frontal load damage when
Speaker 2: he was knocked on the head. So he had the
Speaker 2: explosive temper. He had that, and yet on the other side,
Speaker 2: he was friendly and talkative. One place he moved to
Speaker 2: after fay Reen that he was still on a low
Speaker 2: little rock, but he moved into a room with a
Speaker 2: land lady, Anny Rose. She was so pleased with him
Speaker 2: as a tenant that she started leaving the door unlocked
Speaker 2: when she was so comfortable with him. There was nothing
Speaker 2: to indicate that he was a violent serial killer, and
Speaker 2: by that time he had killed a lot of people.
Speaker 2: And while the investigation into Phase disappearances going on, the
Speaker 2: Arkansas State Police are being bombarded with these crimes murders,
Speaker 2: and they quickly come.
Speaker 4: To the.
Speaker 2: Idea that it is a hitchhiker's the killings. To indicate
Speaker 2: a hitchhiker, one occurs. The first one occurs in January,
Speaker 2: following Phase disappearance in September, and that was mister Hamilton,
Speaker 2: Carl Hamilton. He was a bootlegger and a barber in Camden, Arkansas.
Speaker 2: So Stake police they learned about that, and Hamilton was
Speaker 2: killed by forty five pistol. And the ballistics expert with
Speaker 2: the state police was Alan Templeton, who was great at
Speaker 2: his job. The captain was Jay Earl Spraggin, and their
Speaker 2: chief detectives on the case were Homer Sims and Oliphant
Speaker 2: Brett Eliphant. So first there's the murder in Camden and
Speaker 2: they find out they realized that he probably didn't get
Speaker 2: very much. This is an interesting thing about Red's murders.
Speaker 2: He would steal, but he never got anything hardly. Sometimes
Speaker 2: he would get like Forridgton's. The second victim, which came
Speaker 2: at the first of February, was mister Adams E. C. Adams.
Speaker 2: He was from Kansas and he was coming to Arkansas.
Speaker 2: He's going to go down to Camden where they had
Speaker 2: an ordnance plant and get a job there. So he
Speaker 2: picked up bred in Little Rock, and not too long
Speaker 2: after that his body is found. He's shot in the head.
Speaker 2: Now this time he was shot with the thirty eight.
Speaker 2: And I might add, but the reason the state police
Speaker 2: were called in on that first mother the one mister
Speaker 2: Hamilton was because the first forty five sworders gave them
Speaker 2: an idea of the people there in Camden. The officers
Speaker 2: that vie it might have been a soldier because that
Speaker 2: was the firearm used by soldiers. So that first murder
Speaker 2: sees he used a forty five, and the second murder
Speaker 2: of mister Adams he used at thirty eight. So and
Speaker 2: then let's see the next one. They're still going on
Speaker 2: and boil. Moharne. I'm not sure I pronounced that correctly.
Speaker 2: It's mo Heron, Heron, mo Heron, Yes, it's spelled like
Speaker 2: mo Heron. But I'm thinking because your way we talked
Speaker 2: here in Harchard Susthermton, it may be Moharne. And he
Speaker 2: was a driver for a meatpacking company.
Speaker 7: I was.
Speaker 2: Let's see, he was going to Stuttgart. He left Little
Speaker 2: Rock and uh at some point he picked up bad
Speaker 2: We know this because Doyle's Mohearn's to rout. It went
Speaker 2: from Riddle Lot to Stuttgart, and on the way there
Speaker 2: he would always pass another delivery truck and going in
Speaker 2: the opposite direction that he always recognized the driver and
Speaker 2: they would wave at each other.
Speaker 7: Also that.
Speaker 2: That other driver had a father who lived along the
Speaker 2: route so that sometimes he would give his father a ride,
Speaker 2: and that his father was standing out there by the
Speaker 2: roadside and he saw he saw red in this truck
Speaker 2: with Doyle Mohearne and he was They said the same thing,
Speaker 2: both the the driver, the truck driver who knew Doyle Malhoerne.
Speaker 2: Both he and his father described the same person, and
Speaker 2: they both said he had wavy red hair, and that
Speaker 2: was the first clue they had the State police. So
Speaker 2: you have these two investigations going on, the State Police
Speaker 2: and the Little Rock Police Department, and somewhere along the line,
Speaker 2: well yes I'm leasing track here, but back on course.
Speaker 2: So he does kill mister malhern and he kills him
Speaker 2: with that thirty eight. Okay, so his next victim is.
Speaker 7: I've got to access excuse me for a second. We're
Speaker 7: going to stop for a second to hear from our
Speaker 7: least commercial break.
Speaker 4: Hello.
Speaker 1: It is Ryan and I was on a flight the
Speaker 1: other day playing one of my favorite social spin slot
Speaker 1: games on chumbacasino dot com. I looked over the person
Speaker 1: sitting next to me, and you know what they were doing.
Speaker 1: They were also playing chumba casino. Coincidence, I think, not
Speaker 1: everybody's loving having fun with it. Chumpa Casino's home to
Speaker 1: hundreds at casino style games. You can play for free
Speaker 1: anytime anywhere, even at thirty thousand feet. So sign up
Speaker 1: now at Chumbuck Casino dot com to claim you're free.
Speaker 1: Welcome bonut. That's Chumbuck Casino dot com. And lived at
Speaker 1: Chumba Laine.
Speaker 3: Forcus nessary dailupe where everybody lost in terms conditions eighteen plus.
Speaker 7: Pardon me with that. You also write at that time,
Speaker 7: right after the murder of Moharn and with these people
Speaker 7: seeing this young man with red hair, these witnesses clearly
Speaker 7: saying this man with red wavy hair. This is the
Speaker 7: first time he's called the hitchhike killer officially, isn't it? Yes, yes, yes,
Speaker 7: Now let's go back to just you say, there's two investigations,
Speaker 7: so that's good that we identify that's Arkansas State Police
Speaker 7: and then the Little Rock Police Department, and so unlike
Speaker 7: many many stories where police in different jurisdictions almost act
Speaker 7: like they're competitive and don't share information, and even if
Speaker 7: that's not the motivation, if they don't share information and
Speaker 7: the perpetrator goes on to kill longer than they maybe
Speaker 7: could have possibly if the jurisdiction is cooperated now with
Speaker 7: Little Rock Police Department in Arkansas State Police, when does
Speaker 7: it that they get together and start talking and seeing
Speaker 7: similarities in some of these these killings.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's a good point, because I was so impressed
Speaker 2: with that. He has one more victim kills a mister
Speaker 2: neocom but along at the same time, now this is
Speaker 2: March nineteen forty five, so the war is coming to
Speaker 2: an end. All this news about the hitchhikers and stuff
Speaker 2: like that, it doesn't get a lot of press. That
Speaker 2: Red ends up on a brawl. It's a back alley
Speaker 2: brawl behind a cafe or a bar, and he beats
Speaker 2: a guy so bad that the guy is in the
Speaker 2: hospital for weeks. I mean, he's on the critical list.
Speaker 2: But they and they do arrest. So this is a
Speaker 2: little lease of course who arrest read that he gets
Speaker 2: off with just a fine and court cosse. It's almost unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Who gave that guy such a beating that I think
Speaker 2: he pleaded self defense And he always he would always
Speaker 2: say his father was a preacher, and you know, he
Speaker 2: was a religious man and all things like that. This
Speaker 2: is where they begin to cross over. Let's see. After Newcomb,
Speaker 2: the state police captain Scragging gets a tip over the phone.
Speaker 2: It's a woman who tells him that a relative of
Speaker 2: hers works at the same taxi station as Red Hall.
Speaker 2: Her relative is an ex convict. He knows that, he
Speaker 2: just knows that Red is the killer because I'll call him.
Speaker 2: I think i'll call him, and I use some fake names.
Speaker 2: If I interviewed somebody and they didn't want to give
Speaker 2: their name, I would use another name. In this case,
Speaker 2: all the news reports used different names for this other
Speaker 2: taxi driver. They wanted to protect him. He was not
Speaker 2: involved in the killing. But he knows he carried a
Speaker 2: forty five in his taxi, and Red wants to borrow
Speaker 2: his taxi. And yeah, and and that's what he does
Speaker 2: when he goes down to kill mister Hamilton. That's why
Speaker 2: he uses a forty five. But he puts that forty
Speaker 2: five back where it was in the car and returns
Speaker 2: it to I'll call him mister Blaine, the other taxi driver.
Speaker 2: And Blaine is suspicious. He's very suspicious because of one
Speaker 2: thing that Red had said, said he was going out
Speaker 2: on the road to make some money, and so Blaine.
Speaker 2: He realizes if the the gun has been fired, and
Speaker 2: he's telling his relatives about this, but he doesn't want
Speaker 2: to be to get involved because he's afraid the authorities
Speaker 2: will suspect him because of his record. That his relatives
Speaker 2: calls this in the Captain Scraggin and so they go
Speaker 2: pick up blame. But meanwhile Spraguin calls Chief Martin with
Speaker 2: the Little Rock Police Department, right, and that's when they realize, See,
Speaker 2: Captain Scaragin had learned the name Blaine had told him
Speaker 2: that it was Red Hall, James Red Hall, So the
Speaker 2: state police know his name. Now they get in touch
Speaker 2: with the Little Rock Police Department and they know his
Speaker 2: name because well, the most recent thing was that rawle
Speaker 2: in the alley. But then they tell Mark and telled
Speaker 2: Scragin that Hall is suspected in the disappearance of They
Speaker 2: that's when they joined forces. And they do still have
Speaker 2: two investigations going Homer Simps and and Red Oliphant. I mean,
Speaker 2: they've made a lot of trips. They started in Kansas
Speaker 2: when they were investigating the.
Speaker 7: E.
Speaker 2: C Adams's that was the second murder in nineteen forty five.
Speaker 2: And uh so, anyway, they've done a lot of work
Speaker 2: on that. So anyway, when they realized when the two
Speaker 2: different law of lawmans decide that this is links of
Speaker 2: course by this one guy I read Hall, So Peterson
Speaker 2: and Judd and Harold Peterson and Herbert I mean Harold
Speaker 2: Jadd and Herbert Peterson, the detectives with the Little Rock
Speaker 2: Police Department. They go pick Red up at the taxi
Speaker 2: station and when they kicked him up, Oh, he's just
Speaker 2: so friendly, and he thinks it's about his wife. Again,
Speaker 2: they've already asked him what about his wife, and he
Speaker 2: did yours. It's just that he has no idea. There's
Speaker 2: no idea. So they take him in and they hold
Speaker 2: him there and they just kind of let him stew
Speaker 2: for a while, lock him up. They search him, of course,
Speaker 2: and they find a postage or a receipt. Well, you
Speaker 2: have postage receipt and it was a package. They trace
Speaker 2: it and it was a package that he had sent
Speaker 2: to female friend, not necessarily girlfriend. We don't really know
Speaker 2: about that, Karin Franklin. So they go talk to her
Speaker 2: and she said, yes, he didn't send her something. And
Speaker 2: it once again you'll see here what he would take
Speaker 2: from his victims and it's just crazy. He had stolen
Speaker 2: from from mister Adams. He had stolen things like razor blades,
Speaker 2: cigarettes and let's see, he's always going after the cigarettes
Speaker 2: of Clox, clocks and rotching. Yeah, and people on the street.
Speaker 2: And I've had somebody already comment on this. He would
Speaker 2: sell the quocks and things to people on the streets.
Speaker 2: It's so hard to believe that he did. People just
Speaker 2: he'd be carrying this clock and they say, yeah, I'd
Speaker 2: like to buy that for a couple of dollars, and
Speaker 2: that's all he would ever get. It's just crazy.
Speaker 7: You talk about this, You talk about this this this
Speaker 7: interrogation as well. And then they did you as you mentioned,
Speaker 7: they talk to other people. They find a watch with
Speaker 7: initials j DN engraved. So it's you know, it's not
Speaker 7: very bright that he keeps all of this stuff. But
Speaker 7: also in this interrogation, which very very interesting, is a
Speaker 7: beat reporter for one of the newspapers that they believe
Speaker 7: the Gazette tell us about Joe Wergis if that's his
Speaker 7: pronunciation of his name, and his again for people reading
Speaker 7: this will be his unusual role within this interrogation.
Speaker 2: Yes, I love Joe wargeous. It's worgeous and I love him.
Speaker 2: It's if there were a novel, I mean, he'd be
Speaker 2: a great character. But this was true. He's became a
Speaker 2: copyboy for the Democrat Gazette. That was one of the
Speaker 2: two main state newspapers back then we had the Arkansas Gazette,
Speaker 2: an Arkansas Democrat, and he was with the Gazette from
Speaker 2: the age of about fifteen, I believe it was. He
Speaker 2: started way back like nineteen thirteen or something like that.
Speaker 2: And he becomes the police reporter, and he becomes such
Speaker 2: a good friend with all these different agencies, the sheriff's office,
Speaker 2: the police, the city police, the state police. They all
Speaker 2: love him. And he has a dry sense of humor
Speaker 2: that is just precious. But yeah, he will help the police,
Speaker 2: especially the Little Rock police. He would even type up
Speaker 2: their reports, and they trust him. They really counted him
Speaker 2: as one of their own, right. He's just he says
Speaker 2: funny things and I wish I could have known him,
Speaker 2: But yeah, he's in on. He's there when they get
Speaker 2: the confession. Dari's with this would right for me to
Speaker 2: tell you a little about the interrogation.
Speaker 7: Yeah, well, tell us about the interrogation. But also some
Speaker 7: of the staging that they did. And again this is
Speaker 7: way ahead of their time. I saw this on Criminal
Speaker 7: Minds and read it in mind Hunter. But this there's
Speaker 7: some staging done and there's some real strategizing done before
Speaker 7: they talked to him. Tell us about the staging, but
Speaker 7: also tell him. Tell us how they decided to approach
Speaker 7: him psychologically to elicit this confession.
Speaker 2: Well, they staged it by putting these items on a
Speaker 2: table that they were going to bring it into the room.
Speaker 2: And there's a table in there, and they put like
Speaker 2: the one of the clocks from mister Adams and a gun,
Speaker 2: two guns actually, and they put this on Captain Scraggin's
Speaker 2: desk or table, and they cover it with newspapers and
Speaker 2: they bring him in and they do have sort of
Speaker 2: an idea about his personality. I guess you could say
Speaker 2: he's very friendly and he's not easily rattled. He's not.
Speaker 2: But for the interrogation they bring in both again the
Speaker 2: len Rock Police and the State police. So in there
Speaker 2: you have Captain Scraggin, Judd Peterson.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: Well they're with the lit Rock uh and with the States.
Speaker 2: Leaves with scarg and there's Sims and Oliphant and Joe Warges,
Speaker 2: and they introduced They have to introduce him to Joe
Speaker 2: because he doesn't know, of course who that is. But
Speaker 2: then now Herbert Peterson, he was the one who actually
Speaker 2: led the interrogation. The others would ask questions from time
Speaker 2: to time, like Sims and Elephant. They would say something
Speaker 2: about the Hitchhock killings. They read didn't know, see, he
Speaker 2: didn't know that they were suspecting him that those That's
Speaker 2: the first inkling he had about that. So he pleaded dumb.
Speaker 2: He just said, stays dumb on that he doesn't know
Speaker 2: what they're talking about. And then of course Peterson, Now
Speaker 2: Peterson stays on his feet and he paces back and forth.
Speaker 2: Who gets down in red space. He's the puppy you
Speaker 2: hear about good cop, bad cop? Why he's the bad cop.
Speaker 2: So they grill him for a long time, and little
Speaker 2: by little, uh Broggin will move the papers on the desk.
Speaker 2: I think the first thing that Red seas is one
Speaker 2: of the clocks. He thinks that's strange, you know, that's
Speaker 2: really weird, and it does accuse him a little bit there,
Speaker 2: But they go on with the interrogation. He's still denying everything,
Speaker 2: and then Spraggen holds a few more papers aside, and
Speaker 2: there's a gun. It's one of the gun. It's a gun.
Speaker 2: And he still doesn't say anything. But in finally her
Speaker 2: Peterson gets to him by talking about his son, the
Speaker 2: little baby, and and Red. He always says the thing
Speaker 2: that he would say if he loved somebody who would say,
Speaker 2: I'm crazy about her like Walsey, I'm just crazy about
Speaker 2: her and his little baby boy, I'm just crazy about him.
Speaker 2: And he's said when he always saw to it, that
Speaker 2: he sent ten dollars a month to help Walsey with
Speaker 2: the baby. And Peterson says, is that what is that
Speaker 2: a good dad or something like that?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: He says, that's not all a father does, and and
Speaker 2: he does get rattled in him. Finally, brother and pull
Speaker 2: at the last piper and there is the thirty eight pistol.
Speaker 2: There's the murder with them, and at that point he
Speaker 2: just does up his hands, wings back in the other
Speaker 2: and so I'll tell you about it. I'll tell you
Speaker 2: about all of them. I said, I kill them all.
Speaker 7: Yeah, so and then okay, yeah, yes, let's lose this
Speaker 7: as a use, this as an opportunity. It'stop to hear
Speaker 7: from our sponsor, which is Magic Spoon. We're all trying
Speaker 7: to eat better, but healthy breakfast doesn't have to be boring.
Speaker 7: Magic Spoon has the amazing flavors you love, but without
Speaker 7: all the bad stuff. Zero grams of sugar, thirteen to
Speaker 7: fourteen grams of protein, and only four net grams of
Speaker 7: carbs in each serving. Only one hundred and forty calories
Speaker 7: are serving. It's keto friendly, gluten free, grain free, soy free,
Speaker 7: low carb and gmo free. There are four flavors in
Speaker 7: the variety pack, Cocoa, fruity, frosted, and peanut butter, and
Speaker 7: the flavors are delicious. Magic Spoon tastes like the classic
Speaker 7: breakfast cereals I grew up on, like fruit loops and
Speaker 7: frosted flakes, but Magic Spoon is super nutritious. Go to
Speaker 7: magicspoon dot com slash true Murder to grab a variety
Speaker 7: pack and try it today, and be sure to use
Speaker 7: our promo code true Murder at checkout to save five
Speaker 7: dollars off your order. And Magic Spoon is so confident
Speaker 7: in their product it's back with one hundred percent happiness guarantee.
Speaker 7: So if you don't like it for any reason, they'll
Speaker 7: refund your money, no questions asked. Remember get your next
Speaker 7: delicious bowl of gilt free cereal at magicspoon dot com.
Speaker 7: Slash true murder and use the code true murder to
Speaker 7: save five dollars off. Thank you Magic Spoon for sponsoring
Speaker 7: this episode. Now, Jennie, when we last left off, we
Speaker 7: were talking about the confession, and they the detectives were
Speaker 7: masterful in appealing to this person, saying, do you want
Speaker 7: your son to remember you as a coward? You be
Speaker 7: a man and take the consequences. And so the staging
Speaker 7: and the confrontation psychologically this way, and finally said, as
Speaker 7: you said, I'll tell you all about it. I killed
Speaker 7: them all. Now you say that statements cleared up the
Speaker 7: four Hitchhike murders and his wife's disappearance and just as
Speaker 7: they feared the Faylene or fay Reen was dead. According
Speaker 7: to Red Hall, tell us about what he does say
Speaker 7: about the four Hitchhike murders on all the murders that
Speaker 7: he confesses to in this confession.
Speaker 2: Well, he's and he eventually he does take them to
Speaker 2: all the crime things. But with say he said, yes,
Speaker 2: he killed her that previous September, but at one point
Speaker 2: he says because she knew too much. He would say
Speaker 2: two different things as a motive for killing fay Ring.
Speaker 2: First that she spent all his money, and the other
Speaker 2: spid that she was too bold headed. He'd never known
Speaker 2: a woman that bullheaded. And then too he was afraid earlier.
Speaker 2: You know, I mentioned Oregon, and I said I would
Speaker 2: come back to that. While he was married to fey Ring,
Speaker 2: she did accompany him on a trip up to Oregon,
Speaker 2: and things were different after that, and her family suspected
Speaker 2: that she knew that. The cops suspected that she knew
Speaker 2: something that Red had done on an Oregon and that's
Speaker 2: what read. That's what was the other motive he said
Speaker 2: was she knew too much. So she either knew too
Speaker 2: much about a murder or something in Oregon or what
Speaker 2: did she He never really spelled that out. He just
Speaker 2: says that she knew too much.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 4: And then.
Speaker 7: So he talks about They ask him about Carl Hamilton.
Speaker 7: What does he tell of them in terms of the
Speaker 7: motive for this. They have an idea that this motive
Speaker 7: all wrong was robbery. But they asked him what his
Speaker 7: motivation was, and why does he tell them he killed
Speaker 7: Carl Hamilton.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, he said he went down there, he was
Speaker 2: good at it. He went there there really to rob Hamilton.
Speaker 2: That he tells them that Hamilton pulls a gun on him,
Speaker 2: and I read then he pulls that forty five and
Speaker 2: he shoots Hamilton. There wasn't really anything, you know, It's funny.
Speaker 2: There's some things that I could never find this figure out.
Speaker 2: And I'll get back to this lighter, but a ring
Speaker 2: that comes up lighter that anyway, can you put me
Speaker 2: in the right direction here as far as what you
Speaker 2: were asking, Well, we.
Speaker 7: Were talking about I think Carl Hamilton and just what
Speaker 7: he said in terms of motive, and they he had
Speaker 7: said that he originally went to rob them, but then
Speaker 7: there was a confrontation, so then he has others. Of course,
Speaker 7: they asked him about Malherron and so he he says
Speaker 7: he pulled the gun and forced them to stop and
Speaker 7: took him to a secluded spot and shot him in
Speaker 7: the head and he got one hundred dollars from that.
Speaker 7: You also go on talk later about psychopathic personality. But
Speaker 7: what's interesting is this interrogation. His demeanor at this interrogation,
Speaker 7: and once he does start confessing the manner in which
Speaker 7: he does do that, you comment as well, tell us
Speaker 7: how he talks about these crimes.
Speaker 2: He's so munchalt about it, just like he talks about Martyr.
Speaker 2: And I think it's Owenn Martin who later says something
Speaker 2: like he says, he talks about Mardyer like it's an
Speaker 2: everyday thing and every day of cons it doesn't mean
Speaker 2: anything to him. He's just remote from it. He shows
Speaker 2: no emotion. The first time he shows any emotion is
Speaker 2: when his father comes to see him. They meet on
Speaker 2: the sidewalk outside the jail and he breaks down. That's
Speaker 2: the first time. It's when he sees his father for
Speaker 2: the first time after his arrest, and he does break down.
Speaker 4: That.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he tells them about all the different lines. He
Speaker 2: explains everything. He tells them that let's see with mister Adams.
Speaker 2: Mister Adams, he had walked him several feet or yards
Speaker 2: away from the car into the edge of the woods
Speaker 2: that day, shot him in the back of the head,
Speaker 2: and he would even take off the victims shoes looking
Speaker 2: for money. And then he figured everybody had money got
Speaker 2: somewhere rowed away and then he mentioned he talked about
Speaker 2: let's see, Moharn was the second one, and he said, yeah,
Speaker 2: he's just donchalon about it all now, doll Moharan And
Speaker 2: this jived with what the witnesses saw. Moharn was fighting
Speaker 2: for control of the truck.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 2: He killed him pretty soon after those witnesses saw them
Speaker 2: together in the truck, and he takes the truck and
Speaker 2: then he he would well, he took the truck on
Speaker 2: through Stuttgart and just left it there, and he started
Speaker 2: hitchhiking back to re Rock. And at some point they
Speaker 2: buy guy. Guy kicked him up. Another good kind murderists
Speaker 2: picked him up. And uh, the murderists fitch, I don't
Speaker 2: he get spooked. He was just nervous about the way
Speaker 2: Hall was acting, and so he pretended to have a
Speaker 2: headache and said he couldn't he'd have to stop. And
Speaker 2: the that just shows you. I mean, he just kills somebody.
Speaker 2: Then he gets picked up by somebody he had hitch hiked. Again.
Speaker 2: That's picked up. He's always so easily picked up. I
Speaker 2: mean he was always smiling and friendly. I mean, once
Speaker 2: the person stopped, they were just one over because he
Speaker 2: was charming. I guess you could say in a crude
Speaker 2: sort of way. He wasn't well educated or anything like that,
Speaker 2: but he could just ring people over. He had some
Speaker 2: sort of charisma and so anyway, yeah, he almost tells
Speaker 2: somebody else try after he kills no Hand, and then
Speaker 2: he tells them about mister Nucom, mister Nucomb. That happened
Speaker 2: in Fatner County. So my husband and I went down
Speaker 2: about where. Of course, things are so different now, that
Speaker 2: was back in forty five. It was a bothet area
Speaker 2: or the spot where he pulls over. Nucomb pulls over
Speaker 2: and he fights. He's really the only one that for
Speaker 2: some reason had a chance to fight back and right
Speaker 2: at that time, and this shows you how much nerve
Speaker 2: red Hull had while he's fighting was with Nucombe. A
Speaker 2: couple drive up going to coming towards Conway and they
Speaker 2: stop momentarily. Now, the driver, which is the husband, he
Speaker 2: sort of wants to stop because you think a couple
Speaker 2: of people are in trouble or something. That his wife
Speaker 2: urges him to go on because she thinks it's just
Speaker 2: a couple of drunks fighting. Well, so they go on
Speaker 2: and it was just right after that that he kills Nukemb.
Speaker 2: He got Nukemb back in the he was trying to
Speaker 2: get him back in the back seat of the floorboard,
Speaker 2: and he ends up shooting him in the face. I mean,
Speaker 2: Lukemb really put up a fight. The lost. And then
Speaker 2: another thing that baffles the detectives is the way Haul
Speaker 2: thought about, I don't know, trying to get away with things.
Speaker 2: Where after he killed Nukemb, he decides he wants to
Speaker 2: put the body in some water somewhere. Well, he's passing
Speaker 2: through Conway and the river is just a few miles
Speaker 2: At that time, it was a few miles from the
Speaker 2: city of Conway. The city's grown a lot since then.
Speaker 2: But he didn't. He did not turn and go to
Speaker 2: the Arkansas River and put it put Nukemb in there. Now,
Speaker 2: he just kept driving nor trying to look and looking,
Speaker 2: he said, for a place, a body of water. But
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many opportunities, the little Red River,
Speaker 2: different things, different places like that where he could have
Speaker 2: disposed of the body easily and without anybody seeing him.
Speaker 2: But no, he doesn't, and he ends up turning around
Speaker 2: and coming back toward Conway, still with the body in
Speaker 2: the back of the car, but a flat he gets
Speaker 2: a flat, so he knows, well, he can't travel like that,
Speaker 2: so he flow across the road and he runs through
Speaker 2: a fence and he leaves. He stops in a glade.
Speaker 2: It's not very far from where people are living, but
Speaker 2: he stops and he burns the car with mister Newcomb inside,
Speaker 2: and then he goes and gets ride on a bus
Speaker 2: back to Little Rocke. But he takes mister Newcomb's bluish
Speaker 2: gray coat. He puts that on and goes back to
Speaker 2: Little Lot. So they get a little bit of evidence,
Speaker 2: physical evidence, and they did. They got evidence from every
Speaker 2: one of those crimes. And they debate about who should
Speaker 2: prosecute him, what jurisdiction should prosecute him.
Speaker 7: Would we talk should we not talk about the crime scene?
Speaker 7: Because it's very fascinating. He has to corroborate this confession
Speaker 7: and this. And you describe his character too. He's not
Speaker 7: too bright and he hasn't had much success in his life.
Speaker 7: But this is this is infamy. This is a fame,
Speaker 7: a celebrity that he's never experienced before. So these so
Speaker 7: the thing is is that there's a media response because
Speaker 7: you've got Joe Wurgess right there with the police and
Speaker 7: has access to everything, So what's the media response to
Speaker 7: the crime scene and tell us about the crime scene
Speaker 7: looking for Farine, and we didn't mention that fine is
Speaker 7: supposed is described. Tell us about the crime scene visit
Speaker 7: looking for Farine and her remains, well okay, yeah.
Speaker 2: That's the first thing they do after he confesses, and
Speaker 2: then they get about and it's kind of a rainy day,
Speaker 2: but he tells them that they did not go home,
Speaker 2: that not from the from the Rainbow Gardens ball. After
Speaker 2: he dropped Katy Bryan off, he goes on out drives
Speaker 2: out to this place by the wherever there's a place
Speaker 2: called the Riverside Golf Course and in the river bank
Speaker 2: there and nobody will ever know exactly what was said.
Speaker 2: Well he was taking her out there, but he did,
Speaker 2: and he shows detectives. He leads them out there, and
Speaker 2: it's a caravan of cars because by then he's page
Speaker 2: one news in Arkansas, so and out of state. There
Speaker 2: was a reporter Dick Allen from the Memphis Appeal, the
Speaker 2: Memphis Commercial Appeal, and so anyway, there's a caravan of
Speaker 2: cops and reporters following Red who's in the front car
Speaker 2: and most of the time when he goes around to
Speaker 2: these different crime scenes, he will be in the back
Speaker 2: seat handcuffed to Peterson and we're just will be right
Speaker 2: by side to So they go out there and at
Speaker 2: first he has a kind of a problem locating her remains,
Speaker 2: but a woodcutter moving close to seeing Piepa Foster he
Speaker 2: comes out there to see what's going on, and he
Speaker 2: tells them that he found a skull out there, so
Speaker 2: he and he kept it. He didn't tell anybody, he
Speaker 2: didn't call a cross or anything, but he kept it.
Speaker 2: And he goes back up to his house and brings that. Meanwhile,
Speaker 2: Red keeps looking around. They're poking around, and there's a
Speaker 2: picture of him. I love that picture. He's holding on
Speaker 2: his stick and just been poking around. And then and
Speaker 2: they do. When Foster comes back with the skull, he
Speaker 2: tells them where that was, and then he says, and
Speaker 2: there's a job on and he starts looking around. He said, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's over here in this log and they do. They
Speaker 2: find the job on one and when they get that out,
Speaker 2: Red says, yep, that's hers. See that buck tooth there
Speaker 2: that always hurt me when we're kissed. I mean that's
Speaker 2: the way he was, That's the way he was taught.
Speaker 2: And also they found among her skelepel remains. And see,
Speaker 2: he thought he told them that he thought animals, buzzards
Speaker 2: and all kinds of animals would feed up the body,
Speaker 2: that there wouldn't be anything left and the water would
Speaker 2: carry the rest of it away. So he wasn't expecting
Speaker 2: to find anything that they found quite a bit of
Speaker 2: her skeletal remains, including the skull, and they found that dress.
Speaker 2: Of course it was in shreds by then, but they
Speaker 2: were able to identify that because of those unique closures. Right, So,
Speaker 2: and he just and then all of a sudden, it
Speaker 2: comes to him that their anniversary, their wedding anniversary, their
Speaker 2: first year wedding anniversary, would have been coming up that month.
Speaker 2: They had.
Speaker 8: I just.
Speaker 2: That he was like that with all the crime scenes,
Speaker 2: like you say, he enjoyed being a celebrity. And when
Speaker 2: they retraced his rout trying to find a place to
Speaker 2: leave mister Newcomb's body, they stop over at well a
Speaker 2: couple of places, that at the Cleveland County Courthouse, and
Speaker 2: this is one of those big old courthouses and back
Speaker 2: then with the windows that big windows that would you know,
Speaker 2: you could push up And he noticed a crowd that
Speaker 2: gathered and there must have been five hundred people there.
Speaker 2: All these little nities in that area had heard that
Speaker 2: the caravan was coming their way with Red Hall, so
Speaker 2: they gathered when they found out he was in the courthouse,
Speaker 2: about five hundred people showed up, and he was so
Speaker 2: pleased with it. He asked one of the detectives to
Speaker 2: raise the window so he could converse with the people
Speaker 2: in the crown. And I'll tell you what it reminded
Speaker 2: me of. If you've ever seen that movie about Charlie Starkweather.
Speaker 2: He was a spruce killer back in the You remember
Speaker 2: him and the movie that they made about and called
Speaker 2: bad Lands with Martin Sheen. Remember how he just he
Speaker 2: was just thrilled to death to get all this attention.
Speaker 2: And he said something along the line says, you know,
Speaker 2: if I had some peanuts and popcorn, I bet I
Speaker 2: could make some money selling us to the Yeah, he
Speaker 2: just you not like that. He's just it's hard to understand.
Speaker 7: Sure, you talked about the the prosecutor prossecon Attorney Sam Robinson.
Speaker 7: Despite Hall confessing to more than a dozen murders in
Speaker 7: other states as well. You say that they decided in
Speaker 7: Pulaski County, Well, Sam Robinson decided what did he decide
Speaker 7: to do? How many would he prosecute, and why.
Speaker 2: He was going to And I'll go into the reasons
Speaker 2: for that. Wire He decided to prosecute just the murder
Speaker 2: of five because he said that was the strongest case.
Speaker 2: They had her in the courtroom. They had her remains,
Speaker 2: the clothing and everything like that. And at one point
Speaker 2: when her father was testified, the mister Robinson had him
Speaker 2: come down in front of the jury and showed them
Speaker 2: that he had the same buck tooth that his daughter
Speaker 2: had had, and they saw that job on with that
Speaker 2: buck tooth that I'll tell you this the reason. Another thing,
Speaker 2: the sheriff in Faulkner County wanted to have the trial here,
Speaker 2: but they were afraid that there would be prejudice because
Speaker 2: Red was from here. And then too, there had been
Speaker 2: something that happened many years before in which a man
Speaker 2: had been prosecuted in two different jurisdictions and the first
Speaker 2: one that got him gave him life in prison, and
Speaker 2: then the second jurisdiction put him on trial, and they
Speaker 2: gave him death that he would have to serve live
Speaker 2: before they could execute him. That was a weird law.
Speaker 2: Now anyways, I didn't want anything like that happening. And
Speaker 2: mister Robinson thought that the case against against him for
Speaker 2: Pie's murder was the strongest.
Speaker 7: Now, quickly he gets a defense attorney named m V. Moody,
Speaker 7: and right away he's talking about laying a groundwork for insanity.
Speaker 7: And so they send him for an exam, a thirty
Speaker 7: day exam. Doctor Colb, I believe is the guy that
Speaker 7: that first examined him. Tell us about this examination, and
Speaker 7: then what happens with Hall, Red Hall and his already
Speaker 7: previous confession.
Speaker 2: Okay, doctor Cob, he did examine him, and it didn't
Speaker 2: take thirty days, but he would have the police bring
Speaker 2: him down in the morning and take him back to
Speaker 2: Little Rock at night because they had had a person
Speaker 2: escape from that old hospital and go out and murder
Speaker 2: somebody I think down in Texas count But doctor Colb,
Speaker 2: he would he asked Red about the murders and things
Speaker 2: like that, and he said did you get any sexual
Speaker 2: gratification from that? And he'd say no, And how do
Speaker 2: you feel about this? How did you feel after you
Speaker 2: killed day and he would say I relieved, so doctor
Speaker 2: Colb he said that he would that Red was saying
Speaker 2: that MV. Moody, his defense attorney, did plead him in
Speaker 2: a the reason of insanity, and also he bought the confession.
Speaker 2: He said the confession was coerced, but that was nobody
Speaker 2: believed that. So and then uh, I've lost by training
Speaker 2: thought it was about doctor cob.
Speaker 7: Let's see, well you talked about you talked about the
Speaker 7: confession that he gave.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the thing about the confession and this was
Speaker 2: you know, I had never heard of this argument this
Speaker 2: in court. But m the Moody tried to say that
Speaker 2: the confession he gave to doctor Colb couldn't be admitted
Speaker 2: because it was privileged information between a doctor and his client.
Speaker 2: I had never heard of that before. I had never
Speaker 2: heard that. I thought it was unique. But then when
Speaker 2: I started studying that it was not unique. And that
Speaker 2: has been argued down through the years. Whether or not
Speaker 2: when a person is sent to psychiatric hospital for observation
Speaker 2: and then that psychiatrist testifies, is it as admissible because
Speaker 2: was it done? When Red thought it was doctor Pliant's relationship.
Speaker 2: But of course in this case anyway. And I'm really
Speaker 2: not sure. I'm not educated well enough on a law
Speaker 2: about that. But that did not spend either. Mister Moody
Speaker 2: tried his best. And mister Moody is another character that
Speaker 2: is just so he's bigger than lies almost. He goes
Speaker 2: to extremes and he goes to weird. I keep saying
Speaker 2: to people who buy the book, I say, now, when
Speaker 2: you get to the part about the courtroom, about the trial,
Speaker 2: it really happened that way. Moody is just unbelievable the
Speaker 2: things that he will He will go to all lengths
Speaker 2: to get his client off. He's very theatrical. He interrupts,
Speaker 2: I love this. The judge objected. I mean usually it's
Speaker 2: the lawyer who objects. The judge objected. I thought that
Speaker 2: was funny. The judge was objecting to the repetitiveness. Oh
Speaker 2: and like Robinson said, at one point, he said, this
Speaker 2: may not be the trial of the Sanctuary, but it
Speaker 2: might type of century that caused up ladies distractions and
Speaker 2: things like that. But yeah, it's just really interesting to.
Speaker 7: Bolster the confession. The bolster the confession from the psychiatrist.
Speaker 7: Of course, this becomes a battle of the psychiatrist, and
Speaker 7: there's many psychiatrists to testify at this at this trial,
Speaker 7: but there are there were instances with Oliphant and jud
Speaker 7: and Sims and various law enforcement close to this case
Speaker 7: that he also confessed to. And so part of the
Speaker 7: trial is just and the defense has a hard time
Speaker 7: with it in that there are many reliable, credible witnesses
Speaker 7: that also he confessed to certain aspects of these murders,
Speaker 7: didn't he Yeah, yeah, the.
Speaker 2: He tried to say at the trial, Dad read Well
Speaker 2: Red says, yeah, they they threatened me, they threatened my family.
Speaker 2: They said they didn't have to enlarge the jail to
Speaker 2: hold all my family members. And then he said something
Speaker 2: about and they dragged me around, and Robinson would argue
Speaker 2: with and saying to dragged you all around? What do
Speaker 2: you mean by that? And he said, well that I
Speaker 2: was handcuffed to They had me handcuffed to one of them,
Speaker 2: and he was just pulling on me. And then he'd
Speaker 2: say Robin would say that you would drags and he'd said, well,
Speaker 2: not really dragged, but I had to, you know, I
Speaker 2: had to keep up to keep from being dragged. And
Speaker 2: it was just crazy, but yes, they had to hear
Speaker 2: that that the argument that it was a coerce confession,
Speaker 2: but nobody believed that. I mean, that was one of
Speaker 2: these points of the defense. The defense said in the
Speaker 2: first place that okay, he's insane, for first the confession
Speaker 2: is coerced.
Speaker 1: And then.
Speaker 2: He's not guilty because he didn't do it. Because Moody
Speaker 2: even says that you cannot prove that those remnants of
Speaker 2: a human being on that table, there are the remains
Speaker 2: of Fay Clemens Paul. And so he says that they
Speaker 2: have nobody. Then if you have nobody, you can't prove
Speaker 2: it his murder. Then he does thinks like that. Moody
Speaker 2: does think like that all the way through the triumph.
Speaker 2: And then of course he says innocent by reason of insanity.
Speaker 2: And in his charges to the jury, the judge did
Speaker 2: give them the options not guilty, saying that he didn't
Speaker 2: do it, not guilty by reason of insanity, guilty, But
Speaker 2: with what did he say, not Clement see something like yes,
Speaker 2: and that when the jury comes back, they they do
Speaker 2: recommend the death penalty.
Speaker 7: And and they didn't take long.
Speaker 2: It did not take long, No, it was was it
Speaker 2: forty minutes something like that.
Speaker 7: Fifty.
Speaker 2: It didn't had long at all. Yes, it was in
Speaker 2: the middle of the knot that spectators. There were so
Speaker 2: many spectators at that trial. Everybody wanted to attend, and
Speaker 2: they wouldn't go very far. If there was time to
Speaker 2: break for eating somewhere, they'd stay close or they would
Speaker 2: get their seats again. And yes, the the verdict was
Speaker 2: handed down light light in the middle of the nine.
Speaker 7: So Walsey his first wife. Yes, Walsey is brought in
Speaker 7: to testify, and you talk about his demeanor and his
Speaker 7: composure and sometimes indifference at this thing. But tell us
Speaker 7: when Walsey Hall comes in, it's a little bit different.
Speaker 7: And who does she bring in a little bit later,
Speaker 7: and this is a time when there's a little more
Speaker 7: relaxed security in terms of who sits at a at
Speaker 7: the council table. So tell us about this very dramatic
Speaker 7: event with Walsey and how she brought in for him
Speaker 7: to see.
Speaker 2: Yes, when Walsay testifies, and I always seem to hear
Speaker 2: her voice, I just hear it in my head, a
Speaker 2: very soft voice. And she talks about how we have
Speaker 2: had sort of like two lines, a mind to do
Speaker 2: good in a mind to do bad and then so
Speaker 2: how she's testifying, and in fact, I think he started
Speaker 2: crying before she even got on the stand. That read
Speaker 2: cried through most of her testimony. But then they have
Speaker 2: a break, they have a recess, and she brings to
Speaker 2: him the baby. He's about two years old by then
Speaker 2: day and read things happy birthday, things have been bounces
Speaker 2: and me and all that. So he perks up. You know,
Speaker 2: it makes him happy, happy to see that baby and
Speaker 2: happy that Walce he's there. But like I said, on
Speaker 2: the other hand, he just he became all awhelmed with
Speaker 2: emotion when she was testifying, and he would sob. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he was just very touched by all that.
Speaker 7: It's very interesting to the insanity defense that you write about,
Speaker 7: is that, I mean, Moody tries his best and puts
Speaker 7: on defense. Psychiatrists too, you know, push ahead their theory
Speaker 7: of what what really happened and why this happened. But
Speaker 7: he talked about a psycho a psychotic personality, but then
Speaker 7: also about being a psychopath. So it becomes kind of
Speaker 7: ridiculous in the try to the defense in terms of
Speaker 7: you know, an actual insanity definition, what would be considered
Speaker 7: insanity not knowing right from wrong, But then they throw
Speaker 7: everything in there and calling him a psychopathic personality, I
Speaker 7: excusing what they were trying to prove here in Vain.
Speaker 2: Ultimately, I know, and I was hesitant to include some
Speaker 2: of that because it's almost as if Moody is long winded.
Speaker 2: He just keeps going back to that all the time,
Speaker 2: the psychopathic personality, And like you say, it's all these
Speaker 2: different psychiatrists, and every time Moody will say, and what
Speaker 2: is the definition of a psychopathic personality? And they go
Speaker 2: through that over and over until finally he just and
Speaker 2: Judge Auten kind of helps bring that to a close,
Speaker 2: I think because of Moody and the way he repeats
Speaker 2: questions and the psychiatrists though some of the psychiatrists had
Speaker 2: just had a few minutes really to examine read the
Speaker 2: night before and the night before their testimony, so they
Speaker 2: can't say they they And then they listen to Moody,
Speaker 2: and they listen to with family members who say that
Speaker 2: there's mental well back then they call them mental defects
Speaker 2: in his mother's family family, trying to make believe that
Speaker 2: it runs in the family, that insanity, And like you said,
Speaker 2: there's a difference between between insanity and then a psychopath.
Speaker 2: And I must have about that in a way to
Speaker 2: include that, but I just wanted to show how that
Speaker 2: trial went. The trial itself just unbelievable. It's remarkable. It's
Speaker 2: not like it's certainly not like anything you've seen on
Speaker 2: TV Carrynason. It is not The Good Wife, it is not.
Speaker 2: But yeah, and then finally, of course, the judge when
Speaker 2: he does instruct the jury and he mentions that, you know,
Speaker 2: you can't really I don't know how to phrase that,
Speaker 2: but he leaves it. And like he said earlier on
Speaker 2: the confession, he was going to leave that to the
Speaker 2: jury to decide did they believe the confession or not?
Speaker 2: Then bless he saying or not? And he was leaving
Speaker 2: that conclusion to the jury after they heard all these
Speaker 2: different ones. One psychiatrist claimed that Red told him he
Speaker 2: suffered from hallucinations, auditory hallucinations in which he would talk
Speaker 2: to a dead cousin. Nobody had ever heard of that before.
Speaker 2: That was the first time it was ever thought up.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if that was Red. Just Red
Speaker 2: was great. I'll tell you he could lie better than anybody.
Speaker 2: He would lie say something in one sentence, and this
Speaker 2: is A good example of this is the last time
Speaker 2: that he sees as father and he'll say to his father,
Speaker 2: you know that it was an accident. I didn't mean
Speaker 2: to do it. I didn't mean to do it. But
Speaker 2: then again in the same is that he would say,
Speaker 2: I didn't do it. I didn't do it. You know,
Speaker 2: you gotta believe me. I loved the I mean, he
Speaker 2: just he can lie twice or three times in the
Speaker 2: same paragraph.
Speaker 7: And you write about the public response in the media response,
Speaker 7: and many detective magazines and comic books contained writings about
Speaker 7: Hall and gave him lurid monikers like the Arkansas Butcher
Speaker 7: that Kill, Crazy, Murder of Little Rock, and the Doctor
Speaker 7: Jekyll of Arkansas. But it was you still once he
Speaker 7: was convicted, it was still the Gazette's Joe Wurgus who
Speaker 7: was the you, right, who was the main conduit through
Speaker 7: which the public came to know Red Hall. And he
Speaker 7: had access to him, So he had access to him.
Speaker 7: So what kind of access did he have to him?
Speaker 7: And given this death sentence and then that's what he
Speaker 7: was given and survived the appeal process. So tell us
Speaker 7: about the relationship and how close does Joe Wurgess get
Speaker 7: to Red Hall in his last days.
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, in the beginning, he's just going along and
Speaker 2: he does get explosive interviews while it's still in jail.
Speaker 2: But when it comes time for the execute, well, when
Speaker 2: it comes time to go on to all the crime scenes,
Speaker 2: Joe is there. And then when he's driven down to
Speaker 2: the prison, Joe was there. And then I have explained
Speaker 2: earlier in the book that Joe not only is friends
Speaker 2: with the police and the sheriff, he's also friends with
Speaker 2: the assistant superintendent at the prison. They go out back
Speaker 2: there and fish a lot, and Joe, Joe will stay
Speaker 2: overnight there sometimes in one of the cells. And now
Speaker 2: the death house was that Tucker prison, and and he
Speaker 2: would sometimes spend the night in a cell there, and
Speaker 2: he would he would be there for the execution. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was there. He said something about read's last meal
Speaker 2: he wants Joe was going to be there, and Red
Speaker 2: was just tickled to death about that. He said, he
Speaker 2: was so honored that Joe would would do that, would
Speaker 2: share his last meal, and he did, and he just
Speaker 2: he looked upon Red looked upon Joe, especially Joe as
Speaker 2: a friend, but he also looked upon the tactives who
Speaker 2: had then put him away. Basically, he thought they were
Speaker 2: a swell bunch of fellas, and that's what he said,
Speaker 2: a swell bunch of fellas. He didn't have any ill
Speaker 2: will toward anybody. He thought that he was religious because
Speaker 2: his dad was a preacher, so he was brought up
Speaker 2: that way and he was just leaving it all to God,
Speaker 2: and he was at peace with himself. He was nervous,
Speaker 2: you know, sometime, but then they said it was he
Speaker 2: he stopped being nervous and he was actually I think
Speaker 2: I think one of the people said he had a
Speaker 2: jocular conversation while they were shaving his head for the execution. Yes.
Speaker 7: Now, lastly, after his execution, this story where we talked
Speaker 7: about the World War two in Germany's surrender, this story
Speaker 7: would have been much bigger. This James Weyburn Redhall would
Speaker 7: be much more infamous, especially given the confessions and the
Speaker 7: body count of this serial killer and his incredible character
Speaker 7: and demeanor through this whole thing. Is very very unusual
Speaker 7: killer with a peculiar character, to say the least. Tell
Speaker 7: us what prevented this story from being much bigger.
Speaker 2: The war in Europe was coming to an end while
Speaker 2: all this was happening when he was on that final spray,
Speaker 2: and I kind of theorized that once he killed Fay,
Speaker 2: he just ross and all control. I think he may
Speaker 2: have loved her at some point, and the fact that
Speaker 2: he murdered somebody he may have loved in such a
Speaker 2: brutal manner, I think it just set him, uh, pushed
Speaker 2: him over completely over the edge, and he got he
Speaker 2: got careless, and he started killing on that spray. That
Speaker 2: the war now when his when all of this was happening,
Speaker 2: and the hitch Hot murders and not really say that
Speaker 2: didn't really make the papers, but the Hitchhig murders did,
Speaker 2: of course. But the papers were all about the war
Speaker 2: in Europe and and had been, you know, throughout the war,
Speaker 2: with a list of people who had perished and the
Speaker 2: once missing in action, and just all about the war,
Speaker 2: what was taking place in the Pacific, what was taking
Speaker 2: place in Germany. But the trial itself, when Red's trial
Speaker 2: was on and it lasted only three days, a believe,
Speaker 2: the war in Europe ended, and you know, there was
Speaker 2: just jubilation and release all across the country, and they
Speaker 2: would the people down in law they were celebrating. They'd
Speaker 2: be out there in the streets celebrating while this very
Speaker 2: somber trial was going on. So when so the newspaper.
Speaker 2: If it had not been for Joe Wargess, I don't
Speaker 2: know that bred Home would ever have gotten any attention
Speaker 2: at all. I don't know. It's so hard to would
Speaker 2: he have gotten careless and gotten caught anyway, or would
Speaker 2: he just gone on killing h It's just yeah, I
Speaker 2: don't know. When he started confessing, a lawman from all
Speaker 2: across the country came to talk to him, and as
Speaker 2: you said, I mentioned some that almost definitely the Lambert
Speaker 2: Nipper case. That was doctor Lambert was an offica path
Speaker 2: from So he was in Kansas, a blue and he
Speaker 2: had he was traveling and he picked up a corporal
Speaker 2: Nipper who was going back to his face. So he
Speaker 2: had already picked up one hitchhiker and then came Redcat
Speaker 2: along and they picked him up and reb killed both
Speaker 2: of them. And uh one thing that was very hard. Now,
Speaker 2: this is the hardest part of the research. There was
Speaker 2: so very little in newspapers. I mean, Martha was fairly
Speaker 2: common twice. I hate to say that I still is.
Speaker 2: But being commonplace some murders you never even hear about
Speaker 2: unless they're particularly gruesome or the BodyCount is more. And
Speaker 2: so I tried my very best to make sure that
Speaker 2: nobody had ever solved these crimes that Read was strongly
Speaker 2: accused of committing. There was, yes, Corporal Nipper's cousin who
Speaker 2: now lives in North Carolina or Scepter, North Boston. That's
Speaker 2: North Carolina, isn't it Anyway, his cousin did confirm that.
Speaker 2: The family said no, that had never been solved. So
Speaker 2: the labet Knipper case, I do really believe, and the
Speaker 2: authorities believed that Red did that. And also James Owen
Speaker 2: in Seminole, Oklahoma. The sheriff there, Jake Sims, and he's
Speaker 2: quite a character too, and he had helped catch I
Speaker 2: think it's like fifty murderers, but he never saw the
Speaker 2: case of James Owen. James Owen was killed around Christmas
Speaker 2: time and in nineteen forty good or forty idly yeah
Speaker 2: and yeah. He was partner a railroad track and when
Speaker 2: Red couldn't hitch hike, he would hop a fraight so
Speaker 2: and Owen he had his head bashed in. He wasn't shot,
Speaker 2: but his head was bashed in and Jake Simms, the
Speaker 2: sheriff or the police chiefs of Seminole, he had seen
Speaker 2: read there many times. He said it was a common
Speaker 2: you know, he had seen him before, and he said
Speaker 2: that he truly believed, he would always believed that Jim
Speaker 2: Owen was killed by that Hall, and there were always
Speaker 2: I really couldn't try Wyman Peacock Jr. That was a toughing.
Speaker 2: I tried. I tried contact with his family and I
Speaker 2: just couldn't hit anybody. So that, like I said, will
Speaker 2: put an asterisk by his nine because Red might have
Speaker 2: done it, but who knows.
Speaker 7: I want to thank you so much Jennie Nesbitt Jones
Speaker 7: for coming and talking about this remarkable the Arkansas hitchhike killer,
Speaker 7: James Weyburn Redhall. It's been remarkable speaking to you. Thank
Speaker 7: you so much for this. I know this is a
Speaker 7: history press release. Maybe you could just tell us of
Speaker 7: if there's an Amazon page might find this this work? Uh,
Speaker 7: this book?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, you can find it in several online bookstores
Speaker 2: Amazon of course, and in some of the brick and
Speaker 2: mortar stores like Barnes and Noble Books a million. Hopefully
Speaker 2: not too far in the future. Uh, there was a
Speaker 2: sort of a slow roll out, partly because of the
Speaker 2: weather at the snow, you know, when everybody was in
Speaker 2: all that and problems. But yes, and most online bookstores
Speaker 2: you can find it, and some brick and mortar stores also,
Speaker 2: And I hope to have my website up and running
Speaker 2: in the not too distant future. It's just that well,
Speaker 2: I still work for a y magazine. I'm doing another
Speaker 2: murder mystery for them, so between that and life itself,
Speaker 2: I haven't got around to my own website. Get but
Speaker 2: thank you so much for having me on your show.
Speaker 2: As the podcast, I just I've really enjoyed it, and
Speaker 2: I do hope that listeners found it entertaining and informative.
Speaker 7: Yes, well, thank you so much. Janey Nesbit Jones, The
Speaker 7: Arkansas hitchhi Killer, James Wierburn, Redhall, thank you so much,
Speaker 7: and have a great evening. Good night.
Speaker 2: Thank you by much.
Speaker 5: Dan knows Rona is the place for spring projects, but
Speaker 5: he doesn't always know when he's exaggerating.
Speaker 4: You know, my garden's so big it has two postal codes.
Speaker 5: Really. Oh yeah, well during Rona Spring is on event
Speaker 5: until Wednesday. Get great deals like Miracle Grow twenty eight
Speaker 5: point three Leader Premium Potting mix for only seven forty
Speaker 5: nine and Scott's forty two point five Leader Nature Escape
Speaker 5: Cedar Multch for just four forty nine.
Speaker 4: I also built a shed that's bigger than my house.
Speaker 5: Shot now at Rona or RONA dot CA conditions applot
Speaker 5: Rona for those who know. Dan knows Rona is the
Speaker 5: place for spring projects, but he doesn't always know when
Speaker 5: he's exaggerating.
Speaker 4: You know, my garden's so big it has two postal codes? Really?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah?
Speaker 5: Well during Rona Spring is on event until Wednesday. Get
Speaker 5: great deals like Miracle Grow twenty eight point three Leader
Speaker 5: Premium Potting mix for only seven forty nine and Scott's
Speaker 5: forty two point five Leader Nature Escape Cedar Multch for
Speaker 5: just four forty nine.
Speaker 4: I also built a shed that's bigger than my house.
Speaker 5: Shot now at Rona or RONA dot CA conditions applot
Speaker 5: Rona for those who know. Dan knows Rona is the
Speaker 5: place for spring projects, but he doesn't always know when
Speaker 5: he's exaggerating.
Speaker 4: You know, my garden's so big it has two postal codes.
Speaker 5: Really? Oh yeah, Well during Rona Spring is on event
Speaker 5: until Wednesday. Get great deals like Miracle Grow twenty eight
Speaker 5: point three Leader Premium potting mix for only seven forty
Speaker 5: nine and Scott's forty two zero point five liter Nature
Speaker 5: Escape Cedar Molts for just four forty nine.
Speaker 4: I also built a shed that's bigger than my house.
Speaker 5: Shot now at Rona or Rona dot CA. Conditions apply
Speaker 5: Rona for those who know.
Speaker 6: With Chattermobile, you're already winning with great affordable phone plans
Speaker 6: on your terms.
Speaker 4: And now you can score yourself and.
Speaker 6: Even bigger win with over one thousand instant prizes of
Speaker 6: for drafts plus a chance to win one of three
Speaker 6: twenty twenty one Nissan rogues. So why just win big
Speaker 6: when you could win bigger? Visit Win Bigger with chatter
Speaker 6: dot Com for a chance to win bigger today, tomorrow.
Speaker 2: And maybe even the day after that.
Speaker 4: Conditions apply Chattermobile. Now you make the call