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Speaker 1: What is up, fellas Eco as I am Dann Valley

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coming at you with the one, the only, this certified fantabulous,

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mister Grant Hughes. We are here to report some breaking news.

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We had no idea that there would be consequences for

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our actions, and so now we are here to circle

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back to the twenty twenty four MBA off season and

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go through our grades, talk about where we were wrong,

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where we were right, and to regrade the off season.

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We do this every year. Grand I think this has

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got to be like the third or fourth time we've

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gone back and like regraded, or at least, yeah, went

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back and regraded the off season. So always a fun exercise.

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We're starting off with the Eastern Conference. If you can't

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tell from the title, we will as notes quick notes

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a C. Everyone gets mad when their team gets a C,

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and I kind of understand that, but a C is

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just average grade, like relative to what they had at

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their disposal, what they were trying to do. They got

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to see, like that's totally fine when you get in

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the d's and f's, like that's where okay, let's have

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some debate. And the other note is is so we

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are going to put the transactions that we graded specifically

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up on the screen. So you saw this last year,

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and we will talk about anything that happened, notably before

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opening night thereafter. We do do these later than a

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lot of other podcasts, precisely because for us, at least,

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it makes regrading a lot easier. It's we don't have

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to think about all the stuff that we missed. Do

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you have any other thing to add? Or more importantly,

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I think everybody missed you. You've been gone for a minute.

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How are you doing?

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Speaker 2: I missed everybody? I miss you. We haven't talked in

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two weeks, which seems like impossible, but you know, it's

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it's our off season, cadence, I guess, except not yours,

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because you're going to be doing a million look aheads

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and I'll be there for some of those. No, I

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this is I really like doing this every year because

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I don't know. I you know, my memory is so

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bad that it's just like I want to remember what

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I was thinking a year ago, especially if we're just

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way off. Usually those are obvious, but several of these

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I think we're really useful for me to go back

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and look at, like, Okay, why did I think this

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was a good or bad offseason for this team, and

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then really like, ideally, we're learning something about our thought

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processes and we can take that forward and it's like, well, Okay,

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I need to be careful about shooting the moon on

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a particular team for doing for drafting this player, or

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for swinging this deal or what. I don't know. Just

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it gives you, gives you more sort of data points

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to look back at and kind of just sort of

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like fine tune the way you look at offseason grades.

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Speaker 1: I guess I went back and listened to some of

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what we said last year too, and some of the

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things that I got hung up on for a few

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of the teams in the East was just really funny.

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We're it's like looking back, it's like, why were you

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sputting hairs over that? We did have grant the release

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of the Christmas Day schedule as we're recording this, so

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I feel like we can react to that really quickly.

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There are eight Western Conference teams playing on Christmas? What

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do you make of that?

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Speaker 2: So that means there are two Eastern Conference teams? Is

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there one game? It feels like too many.

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Speaker 1: No, they have to be split. I'm gonna look at

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the actual schedule now. But that's the chatter is that

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everyone's like, so open, Oh that's opening night, no Christmas Day,

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Cleveland versus New York. So the first game and then

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the Eastern Conference is time.

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Speaker 2: Those are the ones, Like I was gonna say, who

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do you need to see? Of the Eastern Conference teams?

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Those are? Those are the two?

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Speaker 1: Maybe those are the two? So do you want to

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would you care to hazard a guess at of the

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West teams that are also playing on Christmas? We'll get

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to the Raids.

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Speaker 2: Probably gonna say the Lakers are probably involved. Uh, as

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are the Clippers, as are the Warriors, as are.

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Speaker 1: The Clippers are not involved? What thunder are involved?

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Speaker 2: Thundersweepers, They're gonna go, you got it?

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Speaker 1: Smack damn thunder Spurs is the second game, Lakers Rockets

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is the third one. The Warriors play the Mavericks in

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the fourth one. You have not named either of the

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remaining You gotta.

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Speaker 2: Have the Wolves in there, don't you?

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Speaker 1: You do have the Wolves? Who are they playing?

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Speaker 2: Why can't I remember? Can I look at a list

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of Western Conference teams?

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Speaker 1: Who you're forgetting an obvious one?

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Speaker 2: I already said the Thunder. M Oh, obviously the Jazz, right,

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we're gonna get the Jazz on there.

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Speaker 1: Trade showcase.

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Speaker 2: Who's the obvious team I'm missing? Did I?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, well that's pretty obvious.

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Speaker 1: Professional horse owner.

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Speaker 2: The best player in the world, sure who wants.

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Speaker 1: And then Opening Night is all West teams. It's the

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four West.

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Speaker 2: That's going to relegate the East. Is that what we're

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training towards? Like the NBA is very interested in Europe.

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Are some of the relegation trends from Premier League soccer

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gonna transfer over? And the East just like just doesn't

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get to play the West end.

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Speaker 1: That's really bad news for the rhyin starf if that happens.

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Rockets Thunder is the first opening Night game and then

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Warriors Lakers is the second Opening night game, so that

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no East teams there.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna watch those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't really need to see the Lakers. They

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have Luca and Lebron's like that they were gonna be

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penciled in there. So No, I don't think any clear shocks,

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although I would have expected the East to be like

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a little bit like have an East team play on

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Opening Night would have been.

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Speaker 2: But who would it. Who would who should it be?

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I mean, if you've got the Calves in the in

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the Knicks.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm saying opening Night, I thought they.

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Speaker 2: Would be like East team, don't you. I'm gonna I'm

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gonna use this year. Here's a bit. I'm gonna work

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on this bit all years where I just dismissed the

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East no matter what, all the time. Nobody's ever made

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that bit up in the last twenty five years of

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NBA analysis, Have they I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't think they have, not at all. I mean,

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you did bring up an issue like, who's the third

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most compelling team in the Eastern Conference aside from the

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Knicks and Calves you picked from.

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Speaker 2: The Detroit, Orlando Atlanta. Uh, I don't know. It's not great,

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it's like that.

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Speaker 1: Uh hell yeah, I love these Look at that accountability. Yeah,

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this is this is what accountability looks like. Telling room,

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probably get started, we shol probably get started with that.

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We're gonna go not alphabetically, but by division. So we're

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gonna begin with the Atlanta Hawks anyway it would be.

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Speaker 2: But also alphabetically.

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Speaker 1: Are you able to take us through the list of

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transactions that we rated, sir?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'll may or may not read some of them,

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but the big ones zacharysiche At number one, Garrison Matthews

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got his team option, picked up the big trade, which

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feels like much longer than a year ago. But Atlanta

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sent de Jonte Murray to New Orleans. Four Dyson Daniels,

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Larry Nance Junior, e J. Liddell, Cody Zeller. That was

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a sign and trade for three years and eleven million

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partial guarantees got a twenty twenty five first and the

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less favorable of Milwaukee or New Orleans twenty twenty seven

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first that has top four protection. Vit Crazy came back

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four years, ten million. We love Viet Crazy around here.

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E J. Liddell was rerouted to Phoenix for David Roddy, Dominic, Barlow,

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Lundy and Keaton Wallace got two way deals. So this

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is mainly the Murray trade. The Resa che Pick, I

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don't know what would have rated. Maybe the crazy signing.

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I don't know, knowing us would have gotten some cover there.

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Speaker 1: We did, if you cared to know. We did, in

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fact spend at least a full minute on the Vig

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Crazie signing.

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Speaker 2: And we've done it again. And so yeah, I don't know.

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I mean, I will say we don't like this offseason

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as much the last offseason for the Hawks as much

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as we like this one. That feels fair to say.

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Speaker 1: And the only thing we missed, so I guess I'll

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tack on that was the Jalen Johnson extension came down

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after the fact, so that would be a part of

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this regrade. The five years, one hundred and fifty million.

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They that offseason, we weren't thrilled with the Dejonte Murray return.

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We thought it was kind of like a net even

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like or the Hawks any better off and then in hindsight,

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with the injury, you can't really predict that stuff. And

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it's not like Atlanta had this great season where they

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set the world on fire. But when you look at

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how they're positioned with their assets now contrasted against how

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Dyson Daniels played for them, I will say that trade

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looks way better. The value of that Milwaukee slash New

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Orleans first just absolutely through the roof and then to

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go out. And so their off season was they were

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one of the offseasons that, in hindsight I think look

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a lot better. Though for sure, I think this offseason

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was better, to be clear, but I think they're one

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of the teams that like had a better off.

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Speaker 2: Season in hindsight, agree, so do Let's just to get

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this right. So I forgot that they got the twenty

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the least favorable of the Bucks or Pelicans twenty twenty

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seven first, and then they also got the same thing

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in twenty twenty six right for the in the in

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the Draft night deal. So they the Hawks have basically

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shorted twenty six and twenty seven for the Bucks good

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bet and Pelicans potentially great bet. Like that's I mean combined,

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we should have they maybe shouldn't have been allowed to

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trade with with the Pelicans. Again, do have we considered that?

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Speaker 1: Have they like kind of do you think that they've

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kind of full It's still it's not the same because

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they still can't tank, but like they've kind of fully

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offset not having their own first round picks in twenty

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six and twenty seven.

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Speaker 2: Now, I mean right, because it's not just like, well,

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if this one other team falls apart, no, you got

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You've doubled your cracks at it. So it's still like

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we always talk about the best thing you can have

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for your own picks, but failing that this is a

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pretty good return. So do you want to talk about Well,

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I think we've we've kind of.

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Speaker 1: I was the only thing I was gonna say is

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do you have any We both were kind of just

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Zach reiche is a C grade because he wasn't the

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obvious pick, but like we needed to see more. How

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do you feel about that pick having gone through his

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rookie season? Now?

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Speaker 2: I don't think my opinions that different. I think, I mean,

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are there guys that you might rather have? Maybe, but

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there's not.

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Speaker 1: I don't.

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Speaker 2: Do you feel like there's someone from last year's draft

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class that's like, oh my god, if they should if

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they had just taken this guy, it would have been

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an A. I don't know who's that guy.

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Speaker 1: I don't know who. I mean, like it wouldn't I know,

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Steph Castle won Rookie of the Year, but no, that

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wouldn't have been an automatic A right now for me.

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I think I would probably even if I was doing

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a redraft right now. I mean, Steph Castle was the

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better player last year, but I think just fits with

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more teams.

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Speaker 2: So I don't at least a conversation.

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Speaker 1: It's a conversation. It didn't hurt their grade, that's for sure.

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And you could say, like with this team, knowing they

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were able to go out and get Christops, like maybe

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not taking Sar was the smart decision for them then

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so And I think the only other thing we would

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need to touch on is the Jalen Johnson contract thoughts.

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Knowing that he's not proven to be the most available

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player since he's under their rotation a few years ago.

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Speaker 2: It moves the grade up for me because it's just

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a flat thirty million a year, right it was at

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five for one fifty and it just stays flat. I mean,

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if he's healthy, that is a below market deal. He

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just wasn't last year. And you know, I think it's

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still it's still that still moves my grade up or

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at least as a contributing factor into me upping their grade.

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But I think it's fair to say that, like it's

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not a definite home run yet just because we don't

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know if Johnson's gonna stay healthy. Does that seem reasonable?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's you feel better about the peak

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of Jalen Johnson on this contract, but you're still he

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hasn't done anything to sort of dismiss the the health concerns.

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So with that, we went from our previous you want

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to take them through. So those who pop upon screen

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for everybody watching. But I gave them a C minus

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and you gave them a C last year, what are

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we giving them now?

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Speaker 2: Grant, So you've bumped up to an A minus, a

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bigger jump because you started lower. I went to a

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B plus. So we're not very far apart at all.

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I just didn't want to quite get into the A

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range just because, like, I don't know, I feel like

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their off season this summer was better, and so I

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don't want to jump to an A for last year

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because where do I go for this one?

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Speaker 1: And it's also they did. They were another team where

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it's like, oh, we're not gonna pay, so we're not

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gonna use the full breadth of our resources because we

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don't want to pay the tax. But yeah, in hindsight,

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it's when Jalen Johnson goes down and you're trying to

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play receche and you have Daniels coming in, Like was

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that the right decision? So that's what's tough is because

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we like those teams and we'll talk a lot about

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this with the Orlando Magic, where It's like you thought

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that they just didn't want to spend at that point.

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So but Dyson Daniels, neither of us were as high.

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Like we didn't expect anything we saw from it. And

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I know he was doing a lot of the things

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he did in New Orleans, but he got more playing

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time and like he did showcase some of the stuff

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that he's able to do on the offensive end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no great offseason for the Hawks in hindsight.

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Speaker 1: Our next team up is the Charlotte Hornets. They I'll

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take I'll take us through them. They hired Charles Lee

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as head coach, drafted t Jon Salon at number six,

280
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drafted kJ Simpson at number forty two. They acquired Grant's

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favorite trade of the off season, Josh Green Reggie Jackson,

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who they ended up waving. They got a bunch of

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second round picks as part of that deal. They re

284
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signed Miles Bridges for three years and seventy five million

285
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salary declines year over year. They acquired Devonte Graham. He

286
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had two point eight five million guaranteed and New Orleans

287
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is twenty five second to get that done from the Spurs,

288
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and they signed Todge Gibson to a one year minimum

289
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because TODJ. Gibson is everything to anyone. They signed Seth

290
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Curry to a minimum deal as well. How do you

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feel about their offseason in hindsight.

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Speaker 2: So as I looked back on this, I mean, there's

293
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just kind of a lot of nothing moves. But we've

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lauded the Horn and it's kind of big picture thinking

295
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and hiring Charles Lee. I think we liked that. The

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Salon pick feels like a miss just because he was

297
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so bad, but he's also one of the youngest players

298
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in the class. I don't think we can. I mean,

299
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this will come up a lot. I think in so

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far as we talk about regrading draft picks, especially the

301
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high lottery guys who are all young. Oh at the bottom,

302
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there musa diabate to a two way he turned out

303
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to him. Yeah, I I forgot. I'm looking now at

304
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the sheet. So we both kind of liked or mostly

305
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liked uh their offseason. I think probably the Salon rough

306
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rookie year, and like the Josh Green ear mouse. Everybody

307
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Josh Green didn't look like he was going to do

308
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He's maybe not gonna matter. So other than that, like,

309
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I don't know, there's not a lot of needle moving

310
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happening here.

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Speaker 1: In hindsight, No, the Salon pick, I just think maybe

312
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here he turns out to be a fine NBA player

313
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one day, and you noted the youth. But like, I

314
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don't know, you look at something like Donovan Klingen on

315
00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:12,080
this team, Zach Edy on this team, Modus buzzellis on

316
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this team. I just there's khalil Ware on this team.

317
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There's like too many other guys that I'm more intrigued

318
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by than Salon. So I dinged them pretty heavily when

319
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we were going through the re And you know, I

320
00:14:23,799 --> 00:14:26,399
didn't like the Josh Green trade to begin with. We

321
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were both kind of net neutral on the Miles Bridges deal.

322
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I'm just sort of lower on him as an impact player.

323
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Now it's still not a detrimental contract, But I don't know,

324
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like Miles Bridges is not a very efficient score Like

325
00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:42,159
Tom Ziller kind of pointed out for Good Morning, Let's

326
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,879
Basketball that he Okay, he'll get you twenty points per game,

327
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but it's not going to be super efficient. Is it

328
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going to generate his shot at like a super high level.

329
00:14:49,559 --> 00:14:51,320
He can be moved around on defense, but he's not

330
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what you would call an impact defender. I do appreciate

331
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their overall direction. But when I went back when I

332
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was looking at the list of transactions and then went

333
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:00,639
back and looked at the grade that I gave them,

334
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I was surprised that I gave them such a high

335
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grade last offseason.

336
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder, what do you think the driving factor

337
00:15:08,679 --> 00:15:11,759
was that just they didn't do any like, uh, let's

338
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try to win forty one games, like short term chasing stuff.

339
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We were pretty like that was a pretty fresh approach

340
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for Charlotte to not do that. So I can imagine

341
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that we were big on that. I didn't listen back,

342
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but that's gotta be a huge factor because let's you

343
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want to jump to the grades here just so we

344
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can get the.

345
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Speaker 1: Visual that was. That was kind of the logic too,

346
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which is like, oh, like, they didn't do anything stupid,

347
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and so it's over they being graded on a weird curve.

348
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But if the Salon pick, if like, maybe he still

349
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pans out, But what's the percentage chance that we look

350
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back and say, oh, it was a good decision to

351
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take him at number six.

352
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it seems it seems very low. I mean, he's

353
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he is someone that seems so far away. It's not

354
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to say he can't get to whatever he's gonna get to,

355
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but like we might not know what he's gonna be

356
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and the hornets will be like trying to negotiate his

357
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rookie extension, like it might take that long to where like, okay,

358
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so maybe he'll be good for somebody else because like,

359
00:16:04,919 --> 00:16:07,240
I don't know, I don't I never really understood the

360
00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:10,039
theory of Salon, like what what was? What was what

361
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,159
did they see in him versus some of the more

362
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known commodities. But whatever they reached, you had a B

363
00:16:14,799 --> 00:16:17,320
plus for them last this time last year, I had

364
00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:20,000
a B minus similar range. You dropped them down to

365
00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:21,879
a D. I went D plus. It's just like what

366
00:16:21,919 --> 00:16:24,200
we talked about, there's the Salon pick feels like a

367
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:27,159
miss with all the caveats we should attach to that,

368
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,759
and there's just nothing else here that that I don't know.

369
00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:33,200
You can't point to anything they did last summer talking

370
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about Charlotte and say, boy, that really set them up

371
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to do X, Y or Z, like it didn't. You know,

372
00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:41,080
we like, we like what they're doing in general. I

373
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want to reemphasize that, but it's just last offseason didn't

374
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really accomplish much.

375
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Speaker 1: Our next team in the Southeast Division is the Miami Heat.

376
00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:50,639
Do you want to take us through them?

377
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? So they drafted the aforementioned Cluil, where at number

378
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:57,519
fifteen look looking like a pretty solid pick at that spot.

379
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,519
Josh Richardson picked up his three point one million option.

380
00:17:00,639 --> 00:17:03,120
Kevin Love signed for two years an eight million. Thomas

381
00:17:03,159 --> 00:17:04,960
Bryant got a year at the minimum, did not finish

382
00:17:05,000 --> 00:17:08,039
the season on the team. Traded number forty three pick

383
00:17:08,039 --> 00:17:10,359
to Atlanta for number forty four, which is pel Larson

384
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,440
signed him for three years and five point four million.

385
00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:16,160
The first two seasons are guaranteed on that deal. Alec

386
00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,559
Burks got a one year deal for the minimum. Heywood

387
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,039
high Smith, who lasted a while into free agency. If

388
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:25,079
I recall correctly, two years eleven million. That's a hell

389
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,480
of a deal. Signed Bam out of BIO to three years,

390
00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:30,039
one hundred and sixty five million. That keeps him on

391
00:17:30,079 --> 00:17:31,920
the books through twenty eight twenty nine, which is a

392
00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:36,119
player option. Signed Josh Christopher and Keishaw Johnson to two

393
00:17:36,119 --> 00:17:40,640
way contracts. So Dan, the highlights here are pretty clearly ware.

394
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,880
I cannot have professed to know very much about Larson

395
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:46,279
at the time we did the grades, but I do

396
00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:49,000
kind of like him as a rotation guy going forward.

397
00:17:49,559 --> 00:17:52,160
The Highsmith deal was really good out of bio. That's

398
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,039
just the going rate for someone like him, even with

399
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,559
his down year. I'm like, I don't feel like that's

400
00:17:56,599 --> 00:17:59,160
a bad contract. I mean, do you like how badly

401
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,000
would Bam have had to played this past year for

402
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,440
that to be a questionable deal?

403
00:18:02,920 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 1: Well, do you know what we dinged them before in

404
00:18:04,759 --> 00:18:06,720
the grades last year was why didn't they wait an

405
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:08,359
extra summer so they could get him on the books

406
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,559
for longer? Because this was like out of bio friendly.

407
00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:14,079
And now I come away from this thinking I don't

408
00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,440
love that. I don't think it was a bad move,

409
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,039
but I don't love the contract as much. Like it's

410
00:18:18,039 --> 00:18:19,839
all the other stuff that's doing the lifting for me

411
00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:22,400
is I've watched a lot of Kohli a ware lately,

412
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:25,839
from Summer League and from his rookie season. I can't

413
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,599
confess there's a part of me that still doesn't understand

414
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,559
the intrigue with him. I think that there's a real

415
00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:33,000
chance that he just never becomes a really good shooter

416
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:34,920
and then you kind of look at it. It's like, oh,

417
00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:36,720
he might have some highlights on defense, but is he

418
00:18:36,759 --> 00:18:39,279
gonna be this high level impact defender. But I also

419
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:41,599
just when the jumpers go in, or you look at

420
00:18:41,599 --> 00:18:43,039
his physical tools that he has with the ball in

421
00:18:43,079 --> 00:18:45,079
his hands, or when he's by the basket, to get

422
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:46,799
him a number fifteen, it's a big deal. I love

423
00:18:46,839 --> 00:18:49,519
Pela Larson. I think that that is when you look

424
00:18:49,519 --> 00:18:52,319
at yes, they have Norman Powell, Tyler Hero, they just

425
00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,240
drafted Yakacionas. I think that they should I'm not saying

426
00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:57,400
they should start Pela Larson, but like that dude needs

427
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,519
to play. They need to put the ball in his

428
00:18:58,559 --> 00:19:00,480
hands because he will make things happen in pressure of

429
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,799
the foul drawing. To get him at number forty three,

430
00:19:03,119 --> 00:19:04,839
you mentioned the high Smith deal. He's out eight to

431
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,039
ten weeks. Just we've found out today he had a

432
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:09,640
knee surgery. I think it was or just a surgery.

433
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,039
I like how to stop myself from bumping them up

434
00:19:13,079 --> 00:19:15,119
into like an A minus range because they had such

435
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,319
a blas season with when you factor in the Jimmy

436
00:19:17,319 --> 00:19:19,680
Butler stuff, but when you look at all these other

437
00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:22,960
moves in hunt they didn't make a bad move last offseason.

438
00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:25,799
Speaker 2: No, not really. I don't know what you would What

439
00:19:25,799 --> 00:19:29,000
would you say the worst move was, like I paying Kevin, like.

440
00:19:29,319 --> 00:19:32,079
Speaker 1: Trading Jimmy Butler? Was that the worst move, like letting

441
00:19:32,119 --> 00:19:32,920
that fee out it?

442
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's a maybe that's a good opportunity to

443
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:37,480
talk about. That's one of the challenges here is like

444
00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:41,079
we do try to consider the roads not taken and

445
00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:43,640
like what might have been possible for these teams as

446
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,559
we're grading them. But like the Jimmy So do you

447
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:52,119
think I guess that the Jimmy Butler trade? Like, are

448
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,480
you actually going to ding them because they didn't trade

449
00:19:54,519 --> 00:19:59,000
Jimmy Butler before the season or didn't resolve that situation sooner?

450
00:19:59,119 --> 00:20:01,279
Like I I could understand if you were going to

451
00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:02,960
do that, but I don't know if I could get there.

452
00:20:03,839 --> 00:20:06,079
Speaker 1: I didn't. I mean, and we both gave them. We

453
00:20:06,119 --> 00:20:08,200
can get to the grades that we gave them for everything.

454
00:20:08,279 --> 00:20:10,400
We didn't miss any like huge transactions. They picked up

455
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,839
some team options afterwards for Yovich and Hawkes. We both

456
00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:16,240
gave them a BEE and we're bumping them up to

457
00:20:16,319 --> 00:20:18,000
I gave him a B plus. But I'm a I'm

458
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:20,359
a big Larson guy spoiler alert, and you gave them

459
00:20:20,359 --> 00:20:22,599
a bee? Or could you? Could I actually ask you

460
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,440
because I think that you're a little higher, Like can

461
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,400
you explain to me what peak khalil Ware would look like? Like

462
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:29,519
what is the best case outcome for khalil Ware?

463
00:20:30,039 --> 00:20:33,079
Speaker 2: Yeah? I don't know. The shot is really kind of

464
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:36,519
the shot in just like the defensive awareness I think

465
00:20:36,559 --> 00:20:38,480
are the two things that you would really need to

466
00:20:38,559 --> 00:20:40,519
see and like that, I mean, the peak version of

467
00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,279
him if the shot, if the three point shot goes

468
00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:46,680
and it becomes like a quality like you can anchor

469
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,160
a good defense as a center, especially alongside Autobio, who's

470
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:54,920
whose shot has always kind of limited him. Who's who

471
00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,599
is that? Are we talking about? Like a Miles Turner

472
00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,599
type with like more vertical athletics, Like yeah, you're asking

473
00:21:01,599 --> 00:21:04,640
what the peak version of him is. It's it's very intriguing.

474
00:21:05,279 --> 00:21:07,960
I I don't know what the what's what's his like

475
00:21:08,079 --> 00:21:10,839
median outcome? You know, three years down the road, it's

476
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:13,799
hard to say, like there there's been no shortage of

477
00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:17,519
of really athletic big guys that we've said, well, he's

478
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,519
if he could just get the three pointer to fall

479
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:22,519
like then he's really something and it doesn't happen like

480
00:21:22,559 --> 00:21:25,119
I don't know, is he it's it's it's it's too

481
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,519
early to say I'm still intrigued by him, but I'm

482
00:21:27,519 --> 00:21:30,400
not gonna like try to talk you off of yours.

483
00:21:30,519 --> 00:21:32,960
What sounds like a little bit of skepticism, it.

484
00:21:33,079 --> 00:21:35,519
Speaker 1: Sounds does it feel weird to bump up the great

485
00:21:35,599 --> 00:21:37,480
you stayed flat? Which I think is fair? Is it

486
00:21:37,519 --> 00:21:39,160
weird that I bumped up a grade of a team

487
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,119
that wasn't trying like they were clearly trying to still

488
00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:44,480
remain competitive. Now they ended up winning thirty seven games

489
00:21:44,799 --> 00:21:46,119
last year, And you can't sit there and say like

490
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,880
they couldn't see the Jimmy Butler situation coming. No, everybody

491
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,279
saw the Jimmy Butler situation coming right right.

492
00:21:51,759 --> 00:21:54,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, I think that's fair. I just I didn't

493
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,240
see enough that was out Like I think we probably

494
00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:00,640
did this after Summer League and where had some like

495
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,839
intriguing flashes then, And I think it's fair to say

496
00:22:03,839 --> 00:22:06,240
that he's basically had a rookie year full of intriguing

497
00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:09,880
flashes and like maybe not a lot of actual substantive production.

498
00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:12,400
So I just didn't really feel like I needed to

499
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:14,480
move it too much. But I can understand why you

500
00:22:14,519 --> 00:22:17,440
why you went up the website. Doesn't optics pretty good?

501
00:22:17,559 --> 00:22:19,759
Speaker 1: I just feel like the optics look so weird of it,

502
00:22:19,799 --> 00:22:22,440
Like Miami won thirty seven games and it was part

503
00:22:22,519 --> 00:22:24,920
like a byproduct of their offseason. But I don't know

504
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,240
what else they were supposed to do within reason, aside

505
00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:29,519
from do you think that moving Butler over the summer

506
00:22:29,839 --> 00:22:32,440
because there's theoretically more time left on his deal and

507
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:35,440
he's not hasn't been suspended by the team yet when

508
00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,519
we were doing this, could he have gotten you, like

509
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:40,759
i'll say, materially more value.

510
00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:43,200
Speaker 2: At that time, don't you think, I mean like you

511
00:22:43,599 --> 00:22:45,640
would have You would have gotten more for him had

512
00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,200
you traded him like ed you kept all this stuff quiet,

513
00:22:48,279 --> 00:22:51,000
if that's possible with Butler and pat Riley and then

514
00:22:51,599 --> 00:22:54,079
and then moved him, you know, before it like dragged

515
00:22:54,079 --> 00:22:56,400
into the season with suspension and stuff. I'm pretty confident

516
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:57,759
that you would have gotten a lot more than they

517
00:22:57,839 --> 00:22:58,759
ultimately got.

518
00:23:00,279 --> 00:23:02,559
Speaker 1: We're wrapping up the Southeast. Oh no, we have two

519
00:23:02,559 --> 00:23:05,039
more teams left. I apologize to the Washington Wizards. Apparently

520
00:23:05,279 --> 00:23:08,839
we are onto the Orlando Magic. They drafted Tristan da

521
00:23:08,839 --> 00:23:12,119
Silva at number eighteen. They drafted Antonio Reeves at number

522
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,960
forty seven, containious called the Pope. Was that the first

523
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,119
move like big move out of the CAPON free agency

524
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,319
right for anyone three years sixty six million with a

525
00:23:19,319 --> 00:23:22,119
player option in year three. Gogo Bitadze three years twenty

526
00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,839
five million on a declining scale, Gary Harris two years

527
00:23:24,839 --> 00:23:26,880
fifteen million on a team option that was since declined.

528
00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,319
Jonathan Isaac renegotiate and extend five years eighty four million

529
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,640
average annual value of sixteen point eight salary declines. Mo

530
00:23:34,799 --> 00:23:37,440
Wagner two years twenty two million flat rate, had a

531
00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,400
team option they declined. It brought him back, he had

532
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,480
that ACL injury. Franz Wagner signed his extension before this.

533
00:23:42,559 --> 00:23:45,680
It ended up being so it was projected for five

534
00:23:45,759 --> 00:23:49,440
years without the all NBA language of twenty four point two.

535
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,160
I think it ends up being like five years two

536
00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,359
hundred and twenty two point four whatever. It's a little

537
00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:56,720
bit less now, but he got the five years, no options.

538
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,359
They brought in Corey Joseph two years at the minimum

539
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:03,160
that had a team option. He's he's no longer there,

540
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,079
at least as of now. So, Grant, how do you

541
00:24:06,079 --> 00:24:08,039
feel about the thing we missed? I'm sorry this is

542
00:24:08,039 --> 00:24:10,200
a team. We missed one thing because we graded before

543
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,079
it happened. Two things Jalen Suggs five years, one hundred

544
00:24:13,079 --> 00:24:16,599
and fifty million dollar extension and then that frickin' Wendell

545
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,799
Carter junior extension, which I get that he's coming off

546
00:24:19,839 --> 00:24:23,240
a bad year, but just objectively speaking, having him at

547
00:24:23,319 --> 00:24:26,759
what was his extension for is four years and fifth?

548
00:24:26,759 --> 00:24:30,000
What is it for? Whatever is extension? So yeah, like

549
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,319
that's just four years fifty eight point seven million or

550
00:24:33,359 --> 00:24:36,039
three years fifty eight point seven Excuse me? How do

551
00:24:36,039 --> 00:24:37,559
you feel about their offseason? In hindsight?

552
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:40,640
Speaker 2: What a weird time capsule? This one is to go

553
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:43,920
back because so as I'm as we're going down the

554
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,960
transactions in front of us here, I kind of like

555
00:24:47,279 --> 00:24:49,680
almost all of them, right, Like I spent the year

556
00:24:50,039 --> 00:24:52,839
trying to talk myself into Da Silva. The wall just

557
00:24:52,839 --> 00:24:54,839
didn't go in enough. But I like that player type.

558
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,680
I always kind of have the bigger wing forward that

559
00:24:57,839 --> 00:25:00,160
likes that seems like he can pass and like that

560
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,720
kind of thing didn't really ultimately have a real productive year.

561
00:25:04,279 --> 00:25:07,599
The KCP thing, we were like, great, love it, that's awesome.

562
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:09,759
They went and got a guy who could make threes.

563
00:25:11,119 --> 00:25:14,160
I mean, I even like the Harris deal, the Isaac deal,

564
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,640
but Toad's the deal. Those are all totally fine, throw

565
00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,680
in throw in Carter. As well. As I look back,

566
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,000
I did not grade this offseason highly. I gave it

567
00:25:24,039 --> 00:25:27,559
a below average mark, and I gotta believe it's because

568
00:25:27,559 --> 00:25:30,079
I didn't like the Wagner deal. I wasn't sure he

569
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,519
was good enough. I think I'm just I'm just assuming

570
00:25:32,519 --> 00:25:33,839
this is what I said, because I can't.

571
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 1: Remember that was exactly what we talked about.

572
00:25:35,759 --> 00:25:40,039
Speaker 2: So okay, didn't love that. And then also I could

573
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:45,960
imagine the kind of the criticism that we really landed

574
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,480
on as the year progressed, was like KCP was just

575
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:50,680
clearly not enough. CASEP had a terrible year, but like

576
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,960
it turned out like that wasn't actually the solve, even

577
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:57,000
though injuries really were what derailed the season for them.

578
00:25:57,519 --> 00:26:00,200
So I think, I don't know. I was surprised as

579
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,519
I graded it as low as I did, because in isolation,

580
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:04,480
I think a lot of these transactions are like, yeah,

581
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,799
that's that seems pretty good, right, Like you were higher

582
00:26:06,839 --> 00:26:10,039
on them, so maybe maybe for comparison's sake, what were

583
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,200
what did you love the most if you can remember,

584
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,759
and what like, I don't know what did you not like?

585
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 1: I thought KCP was gonna be better. I liked Tristan

586
00:26:18,279 --> 00:26:21,640
da Silva. I thought also that the I was probably

587
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,720
a little bit higher on Franz Wagner at the moment

588
00:26:23,759 --> 00:26:25,880
than you were. And I saw, oh, no options, Like, oh,

589
00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,119
that's pretty cool, right, That's like a deal where I'm wondering, Oh,

590
00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:32,480
should they have negotiated harder on that? Like should they

591
00:26:32,519 --> 00:26:35,480
have done Like we've seen teams like the Rockets always

592
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,640
seem to negotiate with their restricted free agents. When you

593
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,839
look at Alprinsching or soon to be restricted free agents Alprinsching,

594
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,599
gun Jabari Smith, that's like kind of a sticking point

595
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,079
for me. I think the Jael and Suggs, I know

596
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,039
he got injured, that extension has and I thought that

597
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,359
was fine. I think the Wendell Carter junior extension is

598
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,920
mostly good. The thing that we both had trouble wrapping

599
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,640
our heads around is this is a team that had

600
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,359
the resources to do a lot more. And now they've

601
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,039
gone and they've had this summer that I think you

602
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:01,440
and I would have campaign for them, yeah, to have

603
00:27:01,559 --> 00:27:04,079
last year, and so we digged them for that. And

604
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,880
it's what also is tough about this is because Okay,

605
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,240
we know that they got injured and then that they

606
00:27:09,240 --> 00:27:12,720
went ahead and had this summer cantabous Coldbell Pope. They

607
00:27:12,759 --> 00:27:14,200
gave up a lot for Desmond Bay, but it was

608
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:16,160
like Kntabo's cold Pope was in that deal, so it's

609
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:18,319
not like they're still stuck with him either. I still

610
00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,359
came away thinking, yes, I like this offseason overall for them,

611
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,640
but that doesn't change that I think they were good

612
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:26,279
enough in a vacuum in that moment to have more

613
00:27:26,319 --> 00:27:30,759
aggressively addressed the needs that we all knew they needed

614
00:27:30,759 --> 00:27:32,599
to address, and they just didn't.

615
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 2: Yep, I think, and so we both dropped their grade.

616
00:27:36,079 --> 00:27:39,079
And I think that's the main reason is that it's

617
00:27:39,079 --> 00:27:41,839
hard to say this because of the injuries, but they

618
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,000
kind of burned a season, you know, they kind of

619
00:27:44,039 --> 00:27:47,279
wasted a season when their two best players were still

620
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:50,720
pretty cheap. Really, their three best players were pretty cheap

621
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,880
because none of those extensions had kicked in.

622
00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,799
Speaker 1: And Ys Jones was available last summer too, is sure.

623
00:27:57,039 --> 00:28:01,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think I I think like we can

624
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:04,079
agree that the Magic's future is is we're higher on

625
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:06,039
the Magic future today than we were a year ago.

626
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:09,440
But their grade drops because they sort of like just

627
00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:13,000
took a year for no reason to realize like the

628
00:28:13,039 --> 00:28:16,759
swing needs to happen. Like maybe Desmond Bane wasn't available

629
00:28:16,799 --> 00:28:18,799
last summer, but like somebody would have been if you're

630
00:28:18,799 --> 00:28:21,400
putting five first round assets on the table, like that's

631
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,680
that that's gonna shake loose some like real upgrades if

632
00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:27,599
that's what you're after. As I'm talking about it now,

633
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,440
I can remember, I bet I made the case that

634
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,720
Orlando believes in its organic growth process and so that's

635
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:36,039
why it's kind of defensible for them not to swing

636
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,240
super big. But they just burned a year finding out that,

637
00:28:40,319 --> 00:28:42,279
like you actually do need to just go get talent.

638
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,279
Speaker 1: And it's like you said at the top, like Tristian

639
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:46,119
da Silva having a step in and be a starter

640
00:28:46,319 --> 00:28:48,759
for a hot minute that has value. But it's also

641
00:28:49,039 --> 00:28:51,079
some of the things we talked about too, where oh,

642
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:52,960
if they're not gonna go get what we consider a

643
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,279
capslock shooter. It's that they really must be prepared to

644
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,759
believe in or uncourt Jet Howard. No, they weren't right,

645
00:29:00,519 --> 00:29:02,359
and we also one of the things he says, like,

646
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:04,119
oh they will do this isn't part of the grade,

647
00:29:04,119 --> 00:29:07,400
but they'll do something by the trade deadline. Now, injuries

648
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,519
maybe force their hand, but I'm kind of the mind

649
00:29:09,599 --> 00:29:12,559
that they probably wouldn't have done anything. So really good team.

650
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:15,160
I don't know how to square up, but they had

651
00:29:15,279 --> 00:29:17,200
their off season just in hindsight, was not like the

652
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,759
Franz Wagner extension. I think if you think the Franz

653
00:29:19,799 --> 00:29:22,880
Wagner extension looks better than it did last offseason, I

654
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,119
would just be curious to know what the case is

655
00:29:25,279 --> 00:29:27,480
it because that he was. I mean I had him

656
00:29:27,519 --> 00:29:29,319
fourth on my MVP V out.

657
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,519
Speaker 2: Like, if you think the Franz Wagner extension is better

658
00:29:32,559 --> 00:29:34,880
now than you did a year ago, then you stopped

659
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:39,759
watching basketball in like mid November or like maybe late November,

660
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:41,880
and you just didn't. You only saw that when he

661
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:43,880
was a top five MVP guy and then you did

662
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:44,960
not see the rest of the year.

663
00:29:46,079 --> 00:29:48,599
Speaker 1: Are we ready to wrap up the Southeast Division for real? Now?

664
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:49,200
With the Wizards.

665
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:53,079
Speaker 2: Sir, yes, sir, Let's see they hired Brian Keith as

666
00:29:53,119 --> 00:29:54,920
a full time head coach. He had had the interim

667
00:29:54,960 --> 00:29:58,640
tag prior to that. I think Alex Aar was their

668
00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,839
pick at number two. Kind of an interesting one here.

669
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,720
Traded Denny Avdiya for Malcolm Brogden, the pick that became

670
00:30:04,759 --> 00:30:07,000
Bub Carrington, or maybe he'd already become the pick had

671
00:30:07,039 --> 00:30:10,039
already become Bub Carrington either way, and a twenty twenty

672
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,440
nine first the second most favorable of Portland, Boston and

673
00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:17,559
Milwaukee sent Dylan Jones, who was number twenty six, and

674
00:30:17,599 --> 00:30:22,559
Melvin Agensah's number fifty one for Kishon George like that.

675
00:30:23,279 --> 00:30:25,559
Rashaun Holmes re signed for two years and twenty five

676
00:30:25,559 --> 00:30:28,000
point nine million. That's after he declined a twelve point

677
00:30:28,079 --> 00:30:31,000
nine million dollar player option. He is now playing in

678
00:30:31,079 --> 00:30:34,319
where he signed overseas, can't remember where, but only two

679
00:30:34,359 --> 00:30:36,640
hundred fifty k of that second year was guaranteed. That's

680
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,960
why he's not in the NBA right now. Got Jonas

681
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Valentiunas for three years and thirty million. That happened to

682
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,759
be a sign and trade. Tristan Vukcevic got a two way,

683
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,400
Sadik Bay, who was injured at the time, three years

684
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,759
nineteen million had a million unlikely incentives. Interesting tidbit I

685
00:30:50,839 --> 00:30:53,200
learned today. You know, there's no incentives in any of

686
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:55,519
the contracts signed this this offseason.

687
00:30:55,839 --> 00:30:57,720
Speaker 1: They all count against the apron now, so there's no

688
00:30:57,799 --> 00:31:00,240
one section to about those like, yeah, the stupid ones.

689
00:31:00,279 --> 00:31:01,920
What was the one that was used as the example?

690
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:05,039
If yeah, d why.

691
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 2: Lastly Anthony Gill two years four point eight million that

692
00:31:08,759 --> 00:31:11,759
was fully guaranteed. So go ahead.

693
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, Sadik Bay never playing a game

694
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,519
for the Wizards just by signing with them last summer.

695
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,079
Speaker 2: But they knew that though, right, I mean he was

696
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:21,759
just I don't know, that's a big.

697
00:31:22,119 --> 00:31:25,839
Speaker 1: And also they traded they traded Dylan Jones just to

698
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:29,200
end up getting Dylan Jones like this summer from the Thunder.

699
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:30,039
It's really funny.

700
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,519
Speaker 2: I mean, the big ones here are Sar and the

701
00:31:34,519 --> 00:31:38,359
Ovvia trade. Other than that, I mean, I guess valentiunis.

702
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,319
But even at the time when that happened, we were

703
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,119
just like, all right, I guess just to have like

704
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,359
a big adult next to Sar was the thinking, which fine,

705
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:47,119
but he didn't finish the year, though, well, they.

706
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,079
Speaker 1: Beat out the Remember Lebron took Less so they could

707
00:31:49,079 --> 00:31:51,359
sign Valentiunis. Then he signed with the Wizards. That's a

708
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:51,839
big deal.

709
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 2: Grand I can't wait to do the West Grade. So

710
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,880
we can really just pump up the Lakers for getting

711
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:57,799
Lebron to take Less.

712
00:31:57,799 --> 00:31:58,240
Speaker 1: What a win.

713
00:32:00,119 --> 00:32:02,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I'm looking and now I gotta scroll down

714
00:32:02,319 --> 00:32:04,279
and see what we I can't remember what we thought

715
00:32:04,279 --> 00:32:07,400
about them, all right, when you're mostly favorite, didn't here.

716
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,519
Speaker 1: Right and we didn't miss anything big. I think I

717
00:32:09,599 --> 00:32:12,400
think you hit on the two points the sar pick.

718
00:32:12,599 --> 00:32:14,480
I think I'm just where I'm at this season. Like, yeah,

719
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,920
there's efficiency concerns, canna get stronger, you better, finishing through contact,

720
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,119
passing was way better than I expected. Had some stretches

721
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,680
where there was a lot of defensive playmaking, hitting threes.

722
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,079
I'm fine with that. I think you could make the

723
00:32:26,119 --> 00:32:28,319
case that had they had the number one pick, they

724
00:32:28,359 --> 00:32:29,960
could have taken it should have taken him.

725
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,839
Speaker 2: Certainly higher ceiling than right, like, I mean, just for sure,

726
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:35,319
lower floor, but high.

727
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: Higher higher ceiling than Steph Castle right now, is that

728
00:32:38,319 --> 00:32:39,400
recreat ceiling?

729
00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:41,440
Speaker 2: Maybe? Maybe?

730
00:32:41,599 --> 00:32:43,599
Speaker 1: Well, I guess if you're so you're saying if Steph Castle,

731
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,759
like the jumper comes along and the yeah, that's fair.

732
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,799
Speaker 2: I mean I don't know, yeah, No, I totally defensible pick.

733
00:32:49,319 --> 00:32:51,519
I think that's like we don't love Sar. It's just

734
00:32:51,559 --> 00:32:54,400
like in this draft, that's no no issue. That's fine.

735
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,799
Take that guy, if if if that's what you like.

736
00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,960
Speaker 1: I did pump up the Rashaun Holmes mode of operation

737
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,200
a little too much. In hindsight, they ended up doing

738
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,920
nothing with like him having I was like, Oh, they're

739
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:05,599
like they're gonna do some they didn't need to, so

740
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:07,920
they did a bunch of other good stuff. I think

741
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:10,319
the one that I struggled with, and I struggled with

742
00:33:10,359 --> 00:33:13,640
this in real time. My words verbatim was I hate

743
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:16,599
this deal for both teams, or I don't understand it

744
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:17,359
for both teams.

745
00:33:17,559 --> 00:33:19,400
Speaker 2: The one you're talking the OVVIO one.

746
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:22,599
Speaker 1: Excuse me, I now feel worse about it for the Wizards.

747
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,319
I like bub Carrington that first round pick has some upside,

748
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,720
but when you look at I think the biggest justification

749
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,079
was obvious value will never be as high as it is.

750
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Right then that clearly wasn't true. Yeah, and then oh

751
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:37,759
he's on an extension. He will never he's on a deal,

752
00:33:37,799 --> 00:33:39,920
he will never extend off. So the Wizards won't be

753
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:43,440
ready to be competitive. That still might ring true, except

754
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:46,119
they're gonna have like two trillion dollars in cap space

755
00:33:46,319 --> 00:33:48,920
right next summer. I think I'd rather eat into like

756
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,480
fifteen or sixteen million of that still have ovdia And

757
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:53,759
then if you're trying to be good, I don't know.

758
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,200
For me right now, it would come down to, well,

759
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:58,119
what are they gonna do with that twenty nine first

760
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,640
round pick, like if they trade it or Bob Carrington

761
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:02,240
gonna have kind of a second like does he get

762
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,319
to the rim more, draw some fouls or something. I

763
00:34:05,319 --> 00:34:07,599
I'm not saying it's not the It's by far not

764
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,199
the worst trade I've ever seen, but I am a

765
00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:12,039
little bit lower on the Avia trade for the Wizards

766
00:34:12,079 --> 00:34:13,199
than I was last summer.

767
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a tricky one because it's not like

768
00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:19,000
Avidya was twenty nine, you know, like that. Then then

769
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,119
it's like, sure with the timeline thing, it doesn't make

770
00:34:21,119 --> 00:34:25,800
sense get Carrington in there. I it's just Ovidiya was again.

771
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:28,280
You know, we could talk. We'll talk more when we

772
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,480
get to the Portland offseason. I'm sure, but like he

773
00:34:31,639 --> 00:34:35,039
was really good, like for the last half or third

774
00:34:35,079 --> 00:34:37,360
of the season and fine all year, but like looked

775
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,000
like just I don't I don't want to get like

776
00:34:40,039 --> 00:34:42,519
too hyperbolic. Maybe not an All star, but like if

777
00:34:42,519 --> 00:34:44,239
he played at that level for a whole season, we

778
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:47,519
would talk about him, we would discuss him potentially at

779
00:34:47,519 --> 00:34:48,320
that level.

780
00:34:48,679 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: Like we did Norman Powell kind of yeah, leading into the.

781
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:57,519
Speaker 2: Break class and and with you know, Carrington just isn't

782
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,199
isn't as good as Avidia and like to get for carrying.

783
00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,920
If Carrington plays at a level like equal to what

784
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,199
Obdia did the second half of last season, at any point,

785
00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:10,679
Carrington's like a very good starter. And so that that's

786
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,239
kind of he hasn't been anything close to that yet

787
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,400
and so until that happens, it's gonna and that twenty

788
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:18,199
nine pick is so distant that like who knows, you

789
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,239
will have to say that the Wizards lost that trade.

790
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,119
I think it's not like a it's not catastrophic because whatever,

791
00:35:25,159 --> 00:35:27,960
you got a promising rookie point guard out of it.

792
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:30,599
But like Abdia just became way better I think than

793
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:31,639
Washington banked.

794
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:34,360
Speaker 1: On Gee, this is interesting and it'll change year over year.

795
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,280
But that pick they got, which is the second most

796
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,280
favorable from Portland, Boston or Milwaukee in twenty twenty nine,

797
00:35:39,519 --> 00:35:43,639
does that pick look better this year? Just was everything

798
00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:44,559
going on in Boston?

799
00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:48,239
Speaker 2: Well sure, yeah, I mean definitely just the Boston Because

800
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,920
of Boston alone, Boston's future seemed like what could possibly

801
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,000
go wrong with this team over the next half decade?

802
00:35:54,119 --> 00:35:58,519
Last year to like everybody's gone now, So so yeah,

803
00:35:58,559 --> 00:36:01,440
that gives it more upside. I mean, Portland we think

804
00:36:01,559 --> 00:36:04,920
is kind of a riser, so that doesn't help Milwaukee. Again, Milwaukee,

805
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,519
we probably had similar feelings about the downside for them.

806
00:36:07,559 --> 00:36:10,000
So yeah, I don't know, if you had to guess

807
00:36:10,039 --> 00:36:15,360
that pick is probably it's probably not in the lottery,

808
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,559
but maybe and it does. I just it's not gonna

809
00:36:17,599 --> 00:36:19,840
have like top ten upside. I wouldn't imagine.

810
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,079
Speaker 1: No, So I it's still one of those TBD things.

811
00:36:23,119 --> 00:36:25,320
But I'm probably a little bit lower on it. Suffice

812
00:36:25,360 --> 00:36:28,199
it to say, though, we still ended up like grading

813
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,280
their off season pretty highly. I went from a B

814
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,519
plus to a B. You went from a B plus

815
00:36:32,559 --> 00:36:34,559
to a C. So what was that? What did it

816
00:36:34,639 --> 00:36:34,920
for you.

817
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:37,559
Speaker 2: What was it Ada A little bit. I think that

818
00:36:37,559 --> 00:36:40,440
it was mainly that and then not doing anything with

819
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,519
the Holmes contract. I think it's I think I felt,

820
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:46,440
in looking back at it, that the B plus was

821
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:48,960
a little generous at the time, and so I really

822
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,280
maybe over dropped it, but still still give them an

823
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,559
average offseason. I think it maybe maybe a year from now,

824
00:36:54,639 --> 00:36:57,320
the Avda Carrington trade gets you up into, you know,

825
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:58,559
above average territory.

826
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:00,440
Speaker 1: It will not shock you to know that they did

827
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,440
turn Jonas Valanciunas into two seconds in a trade exception, though,

828
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:06,159
because the Wizards have I think might have the Fred

829
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,159
Katz pointed this out, they might have set the NBA

830
00:37:08,199 --> 00:37:09,880
record like over the last decade for the amount of

831
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:10,440
trade exceptions.

832
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, which they're They're exceptional.

833
00:37:13,519 --> 00:37:15,880
Speaker 1: We're out of the Southeast Division, We're headed into the

834
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:18,599
Atlantic Division. To talk about I have to assign value

835
00:37:18,639 --> 00:37:23,280
to someone. Your Boston Celtics grant. They drafted Baylor Shireman

836
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,320
at number thirty. They drafted Anton Watson at number fifty four,

837
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:28,239
signed to an exhibit ten. Luke Cornett got a one

838
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,280
year minimum, Xavier Tillman got two year minimum, fully guaranteed

839
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,320
name is Kita got three years seven point two million.

840
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:37,039
Only the first season was fully guaranteed. Derek White signed

841
00:37:37,039 --> 00:37:40,480
a four year, one twenty five point eight million dollar extension.

842
00:37:40,800 --> 00:37:43,079
One hundred and eighteen million was guaranteed the final years

843
00:37:43,079 --> 00:37:46,800
of player option Jason Tatum five years, three hundred and

844
00:37:47,159 --> 00:37:49,039
fourteen point eight It was a five year super max.

845
00:37:49,079 --> 00:37:52,039
The value ended up actually changing player option on that

846
00:37:52,079 --> 00:37:55,239
final season. Sam Hauser got four years and forty five

847
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:59,360
million fully guaranteed, UH and they signed J. D. Davidson

848
00:37:59,519 --> 00:38:02,280
as well Andrew Peterson to two ways. At the time

849
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,440
of the grades, this was another team where we did

850
00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:07,960
not miss anything substantial. But I don't I think there

851
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:09,360
are gonna be a lot of people that are just

852
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,000
gonna say, like, oh, like, how are you just not

853
00:38:11,039 --> 00:38:14,679
gonna slam them now? Because Jason Tatum got injured. There

854
00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,320
was no This wasn't Jalen Brown getting the super Max.

855
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:19,800
It wasn't a debate about Jason Tate. Every single team

856
00:38:19,840 --> 00:38:22,400
in the NBA would have given Jason Tatum that contract.

857
00:38:22,119 --> 00:38:28,159
Speaker 2: Right yeah, easy, like no question. So yeah, I mean,

858
00:38:28,199 --> 00:38:30,519
the the big items, like that Derek White deal is

859
00:38:30,559 --> 00:38:32,639
a great deal. He's still on the team, that's how

860
00:38:32,679 --> 00:38:35,679
good it is, because they've traded everything else and the

861
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:40,079
Tatum deal like I mean, really, so we just to

862
00:38:40,119 --> 00:38:42,280
spoil it, like we both stayed. We started in the

863
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:45,559
A range and we stayed there. And I think maybe

864
00:38:45,599 --> 00:38:48,639
there's a conversation to be had about like, well, you know,

865
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,119
should shouldn't we care about the results, which is that

866
00:38:51,159 --> 00:38:54,159
the Celtics seem like like fucked is a strong term,

867
00:38:54,159 --> 00:38:56,920
but like they're not on sound footing right now, like

868
00:38:57,239 --> 00:38:59,840
it is very possible that they just can never build

869
00:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,239
a tender around a healthy Tatum again, which is just

870
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:06,440
like unthinkable a year ago, but here we are, So

871
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,519
shouldn't their grades be like way down because the Celtics

872
00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:12,760
future is so much murkier than it used to be,

873
00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:15,639
Like I think really the fact that they aren't is

874
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:18,320
just us saying like they're sort of like it's like

875
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:21,199
when you in contract law, there's like force masure, which

876
00:39:21,239 --> 00:39:24,079
is like some act of God like intercedes and like

877
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:26,679
we're not gonna not gonna hold that against you. That's

878
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:28,360
kind of where I'm at on this. It's like I

879
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:30,480
don't know, he tore his achilles, Like what do you want?

880
00:39:30,559 --> 00:39:32,599
They might have kept the team together. Who knows if

881
00:39:32,599 --> 00:39:33,360
that hadn't happened.

882
00:39:34,119 --> 00:39:35,679
Speaker 1: I stuck with an A just because I think the

883
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,559
Sam Hauser extension probably looks better. I think so the

884
00:39:39,599 --> 00:39:42,000
Derek White deal, Yeah, they'll go through his age thirty

885
00:39:42,039 --> 00:39:46,280
four season. But I think he's weirdly divisive when he

886
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:48,639
comes to well, I'll say this, he's weirdly divisive when

887
00:39:48,639 --> 00:39:51,360
it comes to talking about like trades or player value.

888
00:39:51,519 --> 00:39:53,559
I think when you're talking about his encore value, some

889
00:39:53,599 --> 00:39:56,400
people neglect to mention that. Okay, like, no, he's in

890
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,719
the perfect ecosystem or was until this point, so he's not. Yes,

891
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,320
he was a borderline all star. I don't know if

892
00:40:03,400 --> 00:40:05,719
Derek White's gonna be as good next season when Jason

893
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,559
Tatum's not there. He did shoot. He shot like with

894
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:11,079
both Jason Tatum and do or Jalen Brown off the court.

895
00:40:11,079 --> 00:40:12,880
He still hit like forty percent of his three pointers

896
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,280
over the past couple seasons. It's just going to be

897
00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,119
different now, like christophs porzingis not being there, You're still

898
00:40:18,159 --> 00:40:20,639
gonna have the floor spacing element at center, and you

899
00:40:20,679 --> 00:40:22,639
will because Chris Bouchet exists, and he's gonna be a

900
00:40:22,639 --> 00:40:26,039
Hall of Famer but I like I. But then you

901
00:40:26,039 --> 00:40:27,760
talk about trades and it's been like, well, maybe if

902
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:29,639
we give like a protected first round pick, we get

903
00:40:29,679 --> 00:40:32,039
Derek White from the Celtics, And the answer is no,

904
00:40:32,159 --> 00:40:34,559
you would need to give a few first round picks

905
00:40:34,559 --> 00:40:36,440
to get Derek White. So there's I didn't realize how

906
00:40:36,519 --> 00:40:38,280
much of a disconnect there was, And I actually get

907
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:39,880
it in the sense that it could be hard to

908
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:42,920
evaluate players in his situation where it's he looks like

909
00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:45,519
a borderline star. But now we're gonna kind of find

910
00:40:45,559 --> 00:40:50,360
out ripping him out of the most ideal possible ecosystem,

911
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:53,159
what will he look like this year because he's not. Look,

912
00:40:53,159 --> 00:40:55,559
he can do some creative stuff with the ball, but

913
00:40:55,599 --> 00:40:58,559
he's not let's have him run our entire all. It's

914
00:40:58,559 --> 00:40:59,840
the say you kind of feel the same way about

915
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,320
j Brown, although you might feel better about I think

916
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,760
from as a pastor, you feel better about Derek White.

917
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,960
As a frum scratch shot creator. You're probably feeling better

918
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:07,760
about Jalen Brown.

919
00:41:08,639 --> 00:41:13,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, I would. I just think I think the reason

920
00:41:14,079 --> 00:41:16,800
Derek White is so valuable is because you know for

921
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,079
sure that he can be a huge part and a

922
00:41:20,119 --> 00:41:22,760
starter on a really good team, like you just we

923
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:25,199
know that like his game. I would rather have that

924
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,239
guy where it's like I'm not sure what he does

925
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:29,480
on an average team and is he even useful on

926
00:41:29,519 --> 00:41:31,679
a bad team. I'd rather have the guy that, Like

927
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,000
I have questions about how he perform in lower stakes

928
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,280
and where and whereas I know I've seen like and

929
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,440
his game just obviously makes sense in like the highest

930
00:41:40,679 --> 00:41:44,119
leverage situations, like the biggest games against any opponent, Like

931
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,960
you don't like play Derek White off the floor, like really,

932
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,840
but like so I I don't understand that. I get

933
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,920
I guess, like, yeah, if you're the Chicago Bulls, like

934
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,400
Derek White ain't for you, Like doesn't He's not gonna

935
00:41:55,519 --> 00:41:58,199
that's not for him. But like the flip side of

936
00:41:58,239 --> 00:42:01,159
Derek White is like the good stat's bad team guy,

937
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:04,039
Like I don't want that guy, Like I I don't

938
00:42:04,079 --> 00:42:06,199
want the guy that he's getting you twenty wherever he is.

939
00:42:06,519 --> 00:42:08,400
I don't care who cares? Who wants that guy? That's

940
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,880
Cam Thomas, Like nobody's clearly nobody's interested. Like so give me,

941
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,159
give me Derek White at that number and plenty more,

942
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:18,920
and I'm and I'm fine with it. So you you you,

943
00:42:19,039 --> 00:42:20,599
I don't know if you said this already started at

944
00:42:20,599 --> 00:42:22,159
an a stage there, I went from A to a

945
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:24,159
minus just because I don't know, I felt like I

946
00:42:24,199 --> 00:42:26,679
had to acknowledge how shitty everything became in Boston.

947
00:42:27,599 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 1: Would you Jason Tatum gets that injury and but he's

948
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,400
super Max eligible right now? Would they still give it

949
00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:34,199
to him?

950
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:40,199
Speaker 2: I mean, isn't that and you probably probably probably, I think,

951
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:42,840
but that's always the you hear that all the time

952
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:45,199
about like, oh if Jannis Tore's achilles tomorrow and he

953
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,840
was a free agent, he'd get the Max or like

954
00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,800
who you know, you insert Superstar X would have been

955
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,119
an interesting test case. But about I think, so, don't

956
00:42:52,119 --> 00:42:52,519
you think so?

957
00:42:53,079 --> 00:42:54,639
Speaker 1: I think they would have. I'm in for his sake.

958
00:42:54,679 --> 00:42:56,559
I'm happy he didn't get injured right before heading into

959
00:42:56,559 --> 00:42:58,920
ADEO in a surch in eligible summer, but I think

960
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,239
they still would have given to him. That made me

961
00:43:00,239 --> 00:43:02,679
feel better about giving them an A because it's just

962
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:04,719
like that just reinforces how much of a no brainer

963
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:05,559
that decision was.

964
00:43:05,639 --> 00:43:07,920
Speaker 2: And I know this is like stupid logic and this

965
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,800
is the last thing I'll say, but like he already

966
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:13,000
has earned that money because he was the best player

967
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:15,119
on a championship team and like, just think of it

968
00:43:15,119 --> 00:43:16,000
as retroactive.

969
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I want back pay for some of our pot Yeah,

970
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:23,480
I would like to back pay as well. Before you

971
00:43:23,559 --> 00:43:25,199
go through this next team, which is the New York

972
00:43:25,199 --> 00:43:26,760
Oh it's the Brooklyn Nets. Never mind, I'm gonna have

973
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:28,639
the Knicks. We have two pages and we still didn't

974
00:43:28,639 --> 00:43:31,000
grade their entire office when it happened. Would just like

975
00:43:31,039 --> 00:43:31,960
to point that out.

976
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,719
Speaker 2: So the Nets hired Jordi Fernandez, a head coach who

977
00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:40,360
presided over a ridiculous stretch of overachievement, and traded this

978
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:43,119
this is a big one. They traded Mchal Bridges and

979
00:43:43,159 --> 00:43:45,079
some other guys. I'll just list him, Cita Baits, stop

980
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,599
wand Vallet in a twenty twenty six second for Boiam

981
00:43:48,639 --> 00:43:51,519
Bogdanovich shake. Milton got a sign. It was part of

982
00:43:51,559 --> 00:43:53,039
a sign and trade. He got three years and nine

983
00:43:53,079 --> 00:43:55,920
point two million, only the first year is guaranteed. Mamadi

984
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,960
Dia Kite and also got New York's twenty twenty five first,

985
00:44:00,039 --> 00:44:02,559
twenty twenty five second, Milwaukee's twenty five first, top four

986
00:44:02,599 --> 00:44:05,639
protected the Knicks twenty seven first. The Knicks twenty eight first,

987
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:07,480
which is a swap the Knicks twenty nine first and

988
00:44:07,519 --> 00:44:10,559
the nixt twenty thirty one first. That's all the picks.

989
00:44:11,119 --> 00:44:14,239
Then they also traded talking about Brooklyn now a twenty

990
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,840
twenty five first round swap the lesser of Houston or

991
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:21,440
Oklahoma City for Phoenix's twenty twenty seven first. This is all.

992
00:44:21,679 --> 00:44:23,760
I can't even remember how all this worked, can you do?

993
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,159
You remember how the various first swaps and trades worked out?

994
00:44:28,119 --> 00:44:31,360
Speaker 1: So they got the Son's twenty twenty seven well, swap

995
00:44:31,519 --> 00:44:34,679
lesser of Houston or okse for Phoenix. That was in

996
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,199
twenty twenty five. That's what they traded. They traded the

997
00:44:37,239 --> 00:44:40,000
sons of twenty twenty seven first, then they traded the

998
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:42,159
twenty twenty nine first, which is the more favorable of

999
00:44:42,199 --> 00:44:44,519
Phoenix or Dallas. But then they also traded the swap

1000
00:44:44,880 --> 00:44:48,039
of the less favorable so Houston would have the ability

1001
00:44:48,119 --> 00:44:49,559
to get both of those first.

1002
00:44:49,599 --> 00:44:52,360
Speaker 2: Technically, right, okay, this is the Houston thing. Got it,

1003
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:55,679
got it? Got it? Okay. And they also traded Diakite,

1004
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,599
who they I just mentioned are for Zire Williams and

1005
00:44:58,679 --> 00:45:01,719
Dallas' twenty thirty. Second, they signed. Nick Claxton forgot about

1006
00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,360
this four years, one hundred million. Then Trendon Wafford signed

1007
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,480
the qualifying offer. Keon Johnson got two years at the

1008
00:45:08,519 --> 00:45:10,920
minimum with only two hundred and fifty k guaranteed. Very

1009
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,199
busy offseason, highlighted by the Bridges trade, and that the

1010
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:17,719
trade that I could not articulate. Thank you for handling that,

1011
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:24,280
involving sons and Houston picks. I guess, so, Dan, this

1012
00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,000
was an off season where Brooklyn was clearly rebuilding, and

1013
00:45:29,079 --> 00:45:32,320
so that's kind of a different sort of set of

1014
00:45:32,400 --> 00:45:35,039
criteria to evaluate than we've had so far, because we

1015
00:45:35,079 --> 00:45:38,360
haven't really had like a like a teardown operation quite yet.

1016
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,840
I don't think. I guess Washington's close, But we loved

1017
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:45,920
this offseason. The Bridges trade alone is just like, you know,

1018
00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,159
whatever you think about the Bane trade from memphisis perspective

1019
00:45:49,199 --> 00:45:51,679
this summer, it's kind of like the Bridges as far

1020
00:45:51,679 --> 00:45:53,719
as like you just have to say yes with all

1021
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:55,400
that stuff on the table. The Bridge is one is

1022
00:45:55,519 --> 00:45:59,559
very much that, And I don't really feel like my

1023
00:45:59,639 --> 00:46:02,039
opinion has changed all that much. Like it's not like

1024
00:46:02,519 --> 00:46:05,679
they didn't sign I mean, well, let's put it this way,

1025
00:46:06,079 --> 00:46:08,960
which of the major transactions I guess, which is really

1026
00:46:09,039 --> 00:46:13,960
just hiring Fernandez, trading Bridges, signing Claxton, and then that

1027
00:46:14,079 --> 00:46:17,159
the other the Houston OKC thing. Which of those do

1028
00:46:17,199 --> 00:46:20,159
you like least? Looking at them today.

1029
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,599
Speaker 1: I think you could say getting their own pick back,

1030
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:25,719
because look at what it turned into. They ended up

1031
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:28,199
at number eight, and you would expect them to tank harder.

1032
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,519
But it's tough to square that away because you didn't

1033
00:46:31,559 --> 00:46:33,519
look at their roster and that, oh, they're they're too

1034
00:46:33,559 --> 00:46:35,320
good to tank. It was this team, even when they

1035
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:38,760
had Derek shrud A, Dentis Shruter and Dorian Finney Smith,

1036
00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:44,519
very clearly overachieved. And they also pulled the ripcord before

1037
00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:47,800
the trade deadline by trading Denis Shruter and Dorian Phinney Smith.

1038
00:46:48,199 --> 00:46:50,920
So I think it might prove like Jordi Fernandez is

1039
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:52,440
a pretty because he like, he did a bunch of

1040
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,280
stuff on offense, and then they make these trades. They

1041
00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,400
played some more aggressive defense. But it's fair to look

1042
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:00,519
back and say, Okay, if you were trading for your

1043
00:47:00,519 --> 00:47:03,480
own pick, you probably should have tanked like Cooper Flag

1044
00:47:03,519 --> 00:47:05,039
was at stake. You probably should have figured out a

1045
00:47:05,039 --> 00:47:07,119
way to tank Carter out the gate, but they still

1046
00:47:07,119 --> 00:47:09,239
also got the rights to their own pick in twenty

1047
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,960
twenty six back, which is super important, especially because it

1048
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:15,559
seems they they kept all five of the first round

1049
00:47:15,559 --> 00:47:17,559
picks that they had at least as of now, so

1050
00:47:17,599 --> 00:47:20,320
they're gonna have a ton of young guys playing. I'm

1051
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,639
still pretty high on this offseason, but it's just it

1052
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,920
loses a little luster because at the time it was, oh,

1053
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:29,159
their own first round pick could be that's the number

1054
00:47:29,199 --> 00:47:31,960
one pick. Like, if you're Houston, that trade looks a

1055
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:32,760
lot better for you.

1056
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 2: Now.

1057
00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:35,119
Speaker 1: I feel like that the Nets you ended up with

1058
00:47:35,119 --> 00:47:37,840
the number ten pick anyway, which you traded for Kevin

1059
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:39,719
Durant and then Brooklyn ended up at number eight.

1060
00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:44,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that. I mean, so the

1061
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,679
takeaway on that is like kind of positive in itself

1062
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:50,880
because what it amounts to is you the coach you hired,

1063
00:47:51,159 --> 00:47:55,199
I guess was so good at motivation and stuff and

1064
00:47:55,239 --> 00:47:58,880
like tactically that like you couldn't tank as hard as

1065
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,239
you wanted to, So like how do you evaluate that?

1066
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:01,519
Speaker 1: You know?

1067
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,320
Speaker 2: And I was kind of I was wondering if you

1068
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:07,639
were going to say, the Claxton deal because I don't

1069
00:48:07,679 --> 00:48:10,639
know how I feel about that now. It's like twenty

1070
00:48:10,639 --> 00:48:13,519
five million a year on average is not a crazy number.

1071
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,400
I think he's I don't know, he's definitely a starting

1072
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,320
caliber center. I don't know where I would rank him

1073
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:22,639
among starting centers. It's probably not in the top half.

1074
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:25,280
And if it is, it's like right around there. So

1075
00:48:25,360 --> 00:48:28,519
that might be a little much for him. I guess

1076
00:48:28,559 --> 00:48:29,960
maybe the other way to look at it is, is

1077
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:34,000
he tradeable for positive value on that number? Maybe possibly?

1078
00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,440
So that that is all to say, we both had

1079
00:48:38,440 --> 00:48:39,639
them at an A plus, and I think it was

1080
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:41,800
very much motivated by getting their own picks back, which

1081
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:45,880
was still that's still just yes, great, great process. We

1082
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,880
both bump them down just to touch and for me

1083
00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,880
it was because of Claxton, because they didn't quite like

1084
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,800
maximize the value of that pick that they got back.

1085
00:48:54,239 --> 00:48:56,760
Speaker 1: Do you think, in hindsight, does them We'll get into

1086
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:58,400
this with the Knicks, but for the Nets, does the

1087
00:48:58,440 --> 00:49:01,719
mcalbridge's trade look better the same? It doesn't look worse.

1088
00:49:03,119 --> 00:49:04,920
Speaker 2: Uh well, for it to look better you just have

1089
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,880
to like the upside of those Knicks picks a little more.

1090
00:49:08,039 --> 00:49:08,239
Is that?

1091
00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:10,519
Speaker 1: Is that the thing Yeah, that's basically it. Well, no,

1092
00:49:10,599 --> 00:49:13,719
you could also point to had they waited and tried

1093
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:16,719
to trade him this summer, they are getting so much less. Well,

1094
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:18,039
then the Nicks gave up to get him.

1095
00:49:18,079 --> 00:49:20,440
Speaker 2: Now that's right. I think. I think, I think it

1096
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:23,239
cannot look worse because there's just no scenario where they

1097
00:49:23,280 --> 00:49:26,199
get more but at any at any point past or

1098
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,519
future for Bridges than they got when they traded him.

1099
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:30,159
So I mean, it can't look worse.

1100
00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:34,000
Speaker 1: All right, The New York Knicks are up. This is

1101
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,039
gonna take a minute, so everybody just settle in, grab

1102
00:49:36,079 --> 00:49:37,719
a couple of coffee, or or we'll listen to us

1103
00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:39,320
still when you're getting a couple coffee. They signed Tom

1104
00:49:39,320 --> 00:49:44,599
Timodeau to a three year extension. Uh interesting. They drafted

1105
00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:47,639
Becomb Dottie at number twenty five. They turned number twenty

1106
00:49:47,679 --> 00:49:51,400
four Tyshawn George that's our guy, into four seconds, and

1107
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,280
Ariel Huckporty, who was number fifty eight, turned number thirty

1108
00:49:55,320 --> 00:49:59,840
eight AJ Mitchell into Kevin Kevin mccaller junior. Still interesting,

1109
00:50:00,119 --> 00:50:04,119
Boston's twenty twenty eight second round pick. They traded three seconds,

1110
00:50:04,159 --> 00:50:07,199
including their own in twenty thirty for Tyler Kohlik. Who

1111
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:09,559
are they now prepared to bury on the bench again

1112
00:50:09,679 --> 00:50:13,000
for a second straight year. But that's neither here nor there.

1113
00:50:13,920 --> 00:50:16,519
The saga continues, though, everybody, so hold it right on.

1114
00:50:16,559 --> 00:50:19,400
They traded boy On mcdonovich the mcal Bridges trade. They

1115
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:23,360
traded boy and Madonovich shake Milton made Diakite and five

1116
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,920
first rounders plus a swap to get mchal Bridges. Ojananobi

1117
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,159
five years, two hundred and twelve point five million dollars

1118
00:50:29,199 --> 00:50:32,199
with the player option the final year. The best move

1119
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:34,719
of the offseason for them. Jalen Brunson four years, not

1120
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,880
one hundred and fifty six million dollars player option on

1121
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:41,760
the final season, picked up Jericho Sims's team option. They

1122
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:45,440
brought back Prestachua for one year, six million bucks. They

1123
00:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,719
signed a campaign one year minimum deal. We did not

1124
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:51,719
talk about though, because it had not happened yet. The

1125
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,320
karl Anthy Towns trade Dante DiVincenzo, first round pick and

1126
00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:59,360
Julius Randall for carl Anthony Towns. How do you feel

1127
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,159
about this off season in hindsight, Grant So.

1128
00:51:03,079 --> 00:51:04,920
Speaker 2: I came across. I think it was a seth part

1129
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:08,760
now chat where I think I think this is where

1130
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:12,519
it was that really reorganized my thinking specifically about the Knicks,

1131
00:51:13,039 --> 00:51:15,000
because I was ready to go quite a bit Lowers.

1132
00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:17,199
I don't love the Cat trade. I think the anonob

1133
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:19,119
deal might be for too much. They gave up a

1134
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,159
way too much for Bridges onto obviously the brunts and

1135
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:25,519
extensions like unassailable, like maybe the best transaction of last

1136
00:51:25,519 --> 00:51:29,920
summer potentially. But Seth said something to the effect of,

1137
00:51:30,159 --> 00:51:32,239
because someone was getting into the idea of like, well,

1138
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,960
the Knicks don't have their picks anymore, they're inflexible. They

1139
00:51:35,039 --> 00:51:37,840
have all these big contracts, and he said, you know,

1140
00:51:38,079 --> 00:51:42,679
like it's not the goal to accumulate cap flexibility and

1141
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,960
future firsts and whatever else, like those are the tools

1142
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:50,039
that you use to put together a very good roster

1143
00:51:50,119 --> 00:51:52,679
that can win playoff games. And so as you look

1144
00:51:52,719 --> 00:51:55,079
at the Knicks, they almost made the finals again like this,

1145
00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:57,800
so so like the Knicks have built that team and

1146
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,199
a lot of that construction and retention happened last offseason.

1147
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,679
So even if we can say the Towns deal, we

1148
00:52:04,719 --> 00:52:07,159
don't love it, we don't love the Bridges. Even the

1149
00:52:07,159 --> 00:52:10,440
Bridges looks better now that he's signed that cheap extension well,

1150
00:52:10,480 --> 00:52:10,920
but we don't.

1151
00:52:11,559 --> 00:52:13,199
Speaker 1: Did you, I know you were away. Did you see

1152
00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,119
the reaction to that at all. There's so many people

1153
00:52:15,199 --> 00:52:17,159
that thought it was a terrible deal.

1154
00:52:17,519 --> 00:52:20,199
Speaker 2: That's that's they're wrong, that's that's a great deal because

1155
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:21,840
he's going to get way more if he goes to

1156
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:22,360
free agency.

1157
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:24,519
Speaker 1: Year right to agree, but it was I was surprised

1158
00:52:24,559 --> 00:52:26,679
that how many people were just like, no, they paid him.

1159
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:28,480
He is slated to be on the first year of

1160
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,400
that contract between the fifty first and fifty six highest

1161
00:52:31,400 --> 00:52:32,440
played player in the NBA.

1162
00:52:32,519 --> 00:52:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, what are you talking about? What are we talking about? Like,

1163
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:37,960
he's a he's a he's a great two way start. Great,

1164
00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:40,199
he's a he's a proven two way starter on a

1165
00:52:40,239 --> 00:52:42,599
team that could absolutely make a finals. Like what?

1166
00:52:42,760 --> 00:52:45,800
Speaker 1: Okay? I I really think it's because people can't earn

1167
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,360
more his value as the player from what the Knicks

1168
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:50,280
gave up to get him.

1169
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: Don't you think he would have gotten more on the

1170
00:52:52,519 --> 00:52:54,400
open market in a year than money?

1171
00:52:54,519 --> 00:52:56,280
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, I think there would have been a team

1172
00:52:56,760 --> 00:52:58,880
that would have been four years, two hundred, which was

1173
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:00,719
less at least that's less that A. So you ended

1174
00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:03,800
up giving yourself you signed him for got into him

1175
00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:05,840
for fifty million dollars less than you would have needed

1176
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,559
to over four years, let's say, or lose it or lose.

1177
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 2: Him for nothing, right, I mean you've retained him on

1178
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,519
a by definition. I think we both agree that he

1179
00:53:13,519 --> 00:53:17,880
could get more if he had waited, and that's why

1180
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:19,760
I fire him. I probably wouldn't have signed that extension.

1181
00:53:19,760 --> 00:53:21,800
It's probably pre agreed to. Like you point to BA,

1182
00:53:22,039 --> 00:53:24,639
I think that the definition is tradable for positive value,

1183
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,000
like if if it's true that other teams would have

1184
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,360
paid him more if given the chance, then that means

1185
00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:30,800
you can trade him for positive value.

1186
00:53:30,880 --> 00:53:32,960
Speaker 1: And I'm also shocked that they got him to sign

1187
00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,159
the extension and he can still be traded technically this season.

1188
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:39,239
He has like five days before the trade. I would

1189
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:41,239
have bet if if I was him or was going

1190
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,679
to sign the extension, was well, I'll come talk to

1191
00:53:43,679 --> 00:53:45,760
you August sixth or later, and that right, we can

1192
00:53:45,760 --> 00:53:46,559
put pen totally.

1193
00:53:47,039 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: No that I am not willing to listen to any

1194
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:51,920
criticism of that extension. I think that's just wrong. But

1195
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:55,239
so that's all to say. I think we both have

1196
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,800
a lot of some reservations about how costly some of

1197
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,599
the players on this roster that signed last summer what

1198
00:54:01,760 --> 00:54:04,039
it costs to get a couple of the guys on

1199
00:54:04,079 --> 00:54:07,280
this roster. But ultimately this team is really good. Maybe

1200
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,880
it's not great, uh, but it's about as good as

1201
00:54:09,880 --> 00:54:12,800
you can make it and not be a like surefire

1202
00:54:12,920 --> 00:54:17,480
title favorite. Uh. And so I did drop their grade

1203
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:19,440
a little bit. But the Brunson deal on its own

1204
00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:22,679
is just like you just got like one of the

1205
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:25,320
five or six most productive players in the league for

1206
00:54:25,559 --> 00:54:27,920
I don't know, like half of what he probably should

1207
00:54:28,000 --> 00:54:30,559
be making, So you can you can't drop the grade

1208
00:54:30,599 --> 00:54:31,760
too lower. At least I couldn't.

1209
00:54:32,519 --> 00:54:35,519
Speaker 1: No, I mean I did drop it. So I went

1210
00:54:35,559 --> 00:54:38,320
from we both gave them bes the first time around,

1211
00:54:38,719 --> 00:54:40,639
and I dropped B pluses. I dropped them to a

1212
00:54:40,679 --> 00:54:43,159
C plus. You dropped them to a B minus. I

1213
00:54:43,199 --> 00:54:46,519
think I think the Michael Bridges extension is fine. I

1214
00:54:46,559 --> 00:54:48,079
think they if you were going to need to give

1215
00:54:48,159 --> 00:54:51,079
up here here's my qualm. I think the Karnthy Towns,

1216
00:54:51,880 --> 00:54:53,599
the two things that I get hung up on. The

1217
00:54:53,679 --> 00:54:56,119
value they gave up for karl Anthy Towns I think

1218
00:54:56,280 --> 00:54:59,280
was fine. If anything, you could say like maybe they

1219
00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,360
were the winners of that deal. Like from a talent perspective,

1220
00:55:02,639 --> 00:55:04,920
like y way Julius Randall played at points this season.

1221
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,639
If Dante DiVincenzo bounces back, it's a question. My two things,

1222
00:55:08,679 --> 00:55:12,199
are you traded for a center who might not be

1223
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,239
able to play center, and that's a lot of money

1224
00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:17,079
to continue to pay that player to be your part

1225
00:55:17,119 --> 00:55:20,000
time or like center, part time power forward next to

1226
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,559
Mitchell Robinson whoever else you want to throw next to him.

1227
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:25,079
My other bigger hang up is if you were going

1228
00:55:25,119 --> 00:55:26,800
to I'm not saying you should have pearl clutched these

1229
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,039
first round picks. And I think that what they did

1230
00:55:29,119 --> 00:55:30,559
was try to build a team that they could keep

1231
00:55:30,559 --> 00:55:33,639
together as long as possible within reason. They've done that

1232
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:36,960
because what player on Bridges level or higher would have

1233
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,840
signed the extension that was worth this much. But like,

1234
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,800
if you're going to give up that many first round picks,

1235
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,960
you can't be at such a half court shot creation

1236
00:55:46,079 --> 00:55:48,559
deficit that they were last season. Ye Like when you

1237
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:50,880
look at like the percentile of the half court shot

1238
00:55:50,920 --> 00:55:53,000
creation ranks for the Knicks, the fact that they got

1239
00:55:53,119 --> 00:55:56,000
Jordan Clarkson is gonna end up being a godsend, which

1240
00:55:56,039 --> 00:55:57,400
is problematic so.

1241
00:55:58,519 --> 00:56:00,679
Speaker 2: Go ahead, go ahead. No, God was gonna say, like,

1242
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:05,400
I think you could attribute some of that to Thibodeau's offense,

1243
00:56:05,639 --> 00:56:08,840
and like maybe under another coach last year, Bridges would

1244
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:10,840
have done more of the playmaking like we saw him

1245
00:56:10,880 --> 00:56:12,800
do in Brooklyn and in Phoenix, like you know what

1246
00:56:12,880 --> 00:56:15,239
I mean. So, first of all, they extended Thibodeau and

1247
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:17,920
that didn't work out because they fired him. And we've

1248
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,639
talked about, you know, is Mike Brown better? Maybe maybe not,

1249
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:25,119
but he's gonna be different. I do think that I'm

1250
00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:30,440
I'm willing to hold out judgment on the knicks dearth

1251
00:56:30,519 --> 00:56:33,480
of secondary ball handlers and like unwillingness to let other

1252
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:36,880
people handle the ball. I'm willing to like ascribe that

1253
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,920
to Thibodeau until unless it happens again this year and

1254
00:56:39,920 --> 00:56:41,679
then it's like then I think I'd be more on

1255
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:43,360
board with what you're saying. And in terms of like

1256
00:56:43,480 --> 00:56:45,000
roster construction, does that make sense?

1257
00:56:45,039 --> 00:56:48,239
Speaker 1: So yeah, And look, so I think C plus is

1258
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:51,239
an above average grade. But I do think that in hindsight,

1259
00:56:51,320 --> 00:56:53,280
the Jallen Brunton extension is doing a lot of the

1260
00:56:53,320 --> 00:56:55,920
heavy lifting, which because it's you could say, oh, it's

1261
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:58,000
great that mckael Bridges assigned this extension. But the reason

1262
00:56:58,000 --> 00:56:59,840
that the Knicks are under the second apron right now,

1263
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:01,679
the reason that the Knicks are able to sign Gershon

1264
00:57:01,719 --> 00:57:04,639
Yabucelli right now is because Jalen Brunton is on a

1265
00:57:04,679 --> 00:57:07,039
deal like had he been a free agent this year,

1266
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:11,159
Grant his four year max would have been this summer

1267
00:57:11,199 --> 00:57:13,760
for four years would have been two hundred and seven

1268
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:16,440
point eight million dollars. His five year max, which if

1269
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,320
you'd think the Knicks wouldn't have given it to him,

1270
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:20,639
I have some news for you. They would have would

1271
00:57:20,639 --> 00:57:22,559
have been two hundred and sixty nine point one million.

1272
00:57:22,679 --> 00:57:24,239
And so you can talk about, well, he has the

1273
00:57:24,280 --> 00:57:25,880
player options at the end of this deal, they're gonna

1274
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:29,000
pay him. Then are we sure the way players extend,

1275
00:57:29,039 --> 00:57:32,000
he might just take an extend, get another discount. That's

1276
00:57:32,039 --> 00:57:33,760
doing a ton of the heavy lifting. And look, I

1277
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:36,119
do think there's a real conversation to be had about

1278
00:57:36,679 --> 00:57:38,920
you set yourself up to be in a weird position.

1279
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,280
I'm not saying firing Tom Thibodeaux was the wrong move.

1280
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:42,880
I think Mike Brown is going to do some inventive

1281
00:57:42,880 --> 00:57:45,599
stuff for their offense, But you extended Tom Thibodau, which

1282
00:57:45,639 --> 00:57:48,760
I guess bought you a season of not having people

1283
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:50,559
wonder whether he was gonna be back or not until

1284
00:57:50,599 --> 00:57:52,760
after it was over. But like, what does it say

1285
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:56,920
about your internal evaluation about Tom Thibodau that you extended

1286
00:57:56,960 --> 00:57:59,079
him and then fired him one year later?

1287
00:57:59,559 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's fair. It's just that's that's just fair,

1288
00:58:05,519 --> 00:58:08,280
because like it's not as if Thibodeau coached in a

1289
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,639
way this past season that was surprising, Like it's, yeah,

1290
00:58:11,679 --> 00:58:14,039
he just did Thiboeau stuff, like really surprising.

1291
00:58:14,119 --> 00:58:17,119
Speaker 1: Towards the end, they're switching against Boston and Shammit's playing

1292
00:58:17,159 --> 00:58:17,880
in the playoffs.

1293
00:58:18,119 --> 00:58:20,159
Speaker 2: Too little, too late though, right, Like it's you know,

1294
00:58:20,239 --> 00:58:23,199
if if you didn't love tibbs he, I don't think

1295
00:58:23,239 --> 00:58:25,719
those last handful of games are really gonna change your opinion.

1296
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:27,800
Speaker 1: The final thing here, and I think it's a they

1297
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:29,800
had to give it a line with it. Oj Anobe

1298
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,639
had a terrific season. That contract for five years just

1299
00:58:32,679 --> 00:58:35,639
still makes me uneasy because yep, they cannot. I think

1300
00:58:35,679 --> 00:58:37,719
part of what concerns me about the Knicks right now,

1301
00:58:37,760 --> 00:58:40,920
but it's about the O g Annobe extension for this regrade. Specifically,

1302
00:58:41,639 --> 00:58:43,639
you can't count on the availability you got from him

1303
00:58:43,719 --> 00:58:45,199
last year, Like that is not a year and a

1304
00:58:45,280 --> 00:58:48,639
year out thing from Ogannobi And like I'm an alarmist,

1305
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:51,400
Like that's a character flaw. But I look at Michel

1306
00:58:51,440 --> 00:58:54,320
Bridges and Josh Hart being like the mckel bridges in

1307
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,920
Iron Man his entire career, Josh Hart being an Ironman

1308
00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:59,960
for the past three seasons. I look at that as saying, fuck,

1309
00:59:00,079 --> 00:59:02,880
they're due. Yeah, Like that's I come at it.

1310
00:59:04,239 --> 00:59:06,199
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, you're an iron Man until you're not that

1311
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:08,920
that I mean, that's it. Will it will stop at

1312
00:59:08,920 --> 00:59:10,880
some point. They won't play every game for the rest

1313
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:13,119
of their careers. But yeah, no, I mean we're still

1314
00:59:13,119 --> 00:59:15,719
positive on the next offseason. Is the long and short

1315
00:59:15,719 --> 00:59:17,440
of it. Even though some of it looks a little

1316
00:59:17,519 --> 00:59:19,119
less rosy.

1317
00:59:18,840 --> 00:59:21,760
Speaker 1: Than the Brunton thing. I still struggled to like, I

1318
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:23,639
just the way people are still kind of like, oh, yeah,

1319
00:59:23,639 --> 00:59:25,039
he's just gonna get paid at the end of it.

1320
00:59:25,039 --> 00:59:27,480
It's like he gave up so much money, Like he

1321
00:59:27,519 --> 00:59:30,119
basically gave up twelve plus million dollars on average a year.

1322
00:59:30,519 --> 00:59:33,559
Ye that isn't he signed an extension that like he's

1323
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:35,840
basically the same as mckel bridges is getting right now

1324
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:41,599
versus four that's insane. Who's our next team?

1325
00:59:41,639 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 2: Grant? Oh boy, oh boy, you said buckle up last time.

1326
00:59:46,239 --> 00:59:48,079
All right, We've got the sixers because we got to

1327
00:59:48,119 --> 00:59:52,800
do it. So this is so funny, like even the

1328
00:59:53,519 --> 00:59:56,440
stuff that's not accounted for here is is gonna get

1329
00:59:56,440 --> 00:59:59,119
some conversation. So they draft Jered McCain at number sixteen,

1330
00:59:59,599 --> 01:00:01,920
probably Rookie of the year frontrunner until he got hurt.

1331
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:05,840
So we're in, hey, positive territory one for one. Uh

1332
01:00:05,960 --> 01:00:08,960
drafted Yeah, should we start well, no, yeah, we will

1333
01:00:09,039 --> 01:00:10,800
drafted a den Bona at number forty one. There are

1334
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,960
a lot of people like it. Enjoyed the stylings of

1335
01:00:12,960 --> 01:00:16,519
a den Bona. Paul George O Boy four years, two

1336
01:00:16,599 --> 01:00:19,760
hundred and eleven point six million. Uh, we loved it

1337
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:23,119
at the time. Feel a little different these days. Kelly

1338
01:00:23,159 --> 01:00:27,079
Hubray two years, sixteen point four million, terrific deal, no notes.

1339
01:00:27,119 --> 01:00:30,079
Andre Drummond two years, ten million, no notes. Tyre's Maxi

1340
01:00:30,199 --> 01:00:32,920
five years two oh three. Because he agreed to wait, love.

1341
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:36,480
Speaker 1: It either no option. They made him wait. He didn't

1342
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:37,000
get an option.

1343
01:00:37,199 --> 01:00:39,800
Speaker 2: Dan the Hits keep coming. Eric Gordon for the minimum.

1344
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,559
I mean he can still play, right. Caleb Martin four

1345
01:00:42,639 --> 01:00:45,880
years thirty five million. We love the Martin's unrelated kJ

1346
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:49,280
Martin two years sixteen million. Uh, second year is eight

1347
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:51,760
point two something and that's not guaranteed, right. I don't

1348
01:00:51,760 --> 01:00:53,400
know if is he still on a roster right now?

1349
01:00:53,639 --> 01:00:54,679
Speaker 1: He's on the Jazz roster.

1350
01:00:54,800 --> 01:00:57,639
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Kyle Lowry got a year at the minimum.

1351
01:00:57,679 --> 01:01:00,880
Love it, veteran experience. Reggie jack In one year minimum?

1352
01:01:00,920 --> 01:01:03,960
Why not? Yabasele one year minimum? That one actually did

1353
01:01:03,960 --> 01:01:06,360
turn out well, Uh, until it didn't because they didn't

1354
01:01:06,360 --> 01:01:08,480
bring them back. Signed David Jones and Jeff Down into

1355
01:01:08,480 --> 01:01:12,280
two ways. Holy shit, man, uh we we a plus

1356
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:14,719
this across the board. We loved it. It was it

1357
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,159
was phenomenal. What we did not account for in this

1358
01:01:17,280 --> 01:01:20,840
grade would have been fascinating. I think it would have

1359
01:01:20,840 --> 01:01:25,159
been lower, but did not account for Joel Embiid's three year,

1360
01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,360
one ninety three That's the number I have in my head.

1361
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,280
I think that's it. One hundred ninety three million dollar extension. Uh,

1362
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,840
gotta believe we would have had some reservations about that

1363
01:01:36,880 --> 01:01:39,760
one at the time. Also, just just to keep it

1364
01:01:40,000 --> 01:01:41,960
all on the up and up. The Yabusele signing had

1365
01:01:42,000 --> 01:01:44,199
also not happened when we apparently it did.

1366
01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: I was wrong. Okay, greed looked back. So we we

1367
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:48,920
did have the Yaba, but that was not what we

1368
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,000
were probably like, okay, cool, like yeah, oh remember hit

1369
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:55,239
like they were coordering the market on guys with big cabooses,

1370
01:01:55,320 --> 01:01:57,159
Like yeah, really right, yeah that's.

1371
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:01,000
Speaker 2: Probably now It's well, I mean, in fairness, Yabu Selly

1372
01:02:01,159 --> 01:02:02,559
had looked good. I mean there was a lot of

1373
01:02:02,599 --> 01:02:05,199
buzz about him, right, like, he looked good in the Olympics.

1374
01:02:05,960 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 1: I think people even now said, like wolves is shooting

1375
01:02:07,840 --> 01:02:10,559
gonna hold and like one we don't really know, but

1376
01:02:10,719 --> 01:02:12,760
part of his like half decade away from the NBA

1377
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:14,559
was oh no, he became like a real shooter with

1378
01:02:14,599 --> 01:02:15,199
real Madrid.

1379
01:02:15,320 --> 01:02:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, so this I don't know where to

1380
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:20,119
start with this.

1381
01:02:20,079 --> 01:02:22,119
Speaker 1: Really well, let's start with the thing that we didn't

1382
01:02:22,159 --> 01:02:24,159
grade at the time. The EMBIID was three years, one

1383
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:28,360
hundred and eighty eight million. It was adjusted because I

1384
01:02:28,360 --> 01:02:32,320
think the cap projections coming in. Here's my thing. We

1385
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:37,360
covered the Olympics for Bleacher Report, watching him gave him

1386
01:02:37,400 --> 01:02:40,599
game out. There were moments flickers, and we did chalk

1387
01:02:40,599 --> 01:02:42,159
it up to, oh, he kind of has to ramp

1388
01:02:42,239 --> 01:02:45,280
up and get to be himself. He never got there,

1389
01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:49,079
and they gave him the extension anyway, when what would

1390
01:02:49,079 --> 01:02:52,599
have happened if they didn't you offer it this summer

1391
01:02:52,880 --> 01:02:55,039
when he's just had a tackle, Like we talked about

1392
01:02:55,079 --> 01:02:57,360
it as this might be smart after the fact that

1393
01:02:57,440 --> 01:02:59,480
wasn't part of the grade. This might be smart because

1394
01:02:59,480 --> 01:03:01,119
they got into him for one a few a year.

1395
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:03,239
But I've now come around to the idea that if

1396
01:03:03,280 --> 01:03:05,960
I find myself saying that, there's a real question, so

1397
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:07,880
whether you should be offering the extension if your thought

1398
01:03:07,880 --> 01:03:10,880
process was we don't have to go the extra year

1399
01:03:10,920 --> 01:03:11,519
out on.

1400
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:16,000
Speaker 2: It, yeah, right, because that shouldn't You shouldn't at that

1401
01:03:16,159 --> 01:03:18,920
dollar amount, you shouldn't have trepidation about like do we

1402
01:03:18,960 --> 01:03:20,760
want this to go on for as long as it can?

1403
01:03:20,800 --> 01:03:22,360
It should be like, oh God, I hope we can

1404
01:03:22,360 --> 01:03:24,639
get as many years as possible. Right, if you're talking

1405
01:03:24,679 --> 01:03:28,320
about that level of money, I mean not. You know, yes,

1406
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,000
there is value in shorter deals with like balloon payments,

1407
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,920
but like for a player of Embiid's caliber when healthy

1408
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,000
is a red flag that just it just is and

1409
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,480
I don't know, we haven't really talked about this, but

1410
01:03:41,519 --> 01:03:43,880
it's I think it's consensus, and I'm kind of on

1411
01:03:43,960 --> 01:03:46,760
board that, like he's never going to be like an

1412
01:03:46,760 --> 01:03:49,239
All NBA first team guy, and if he is, it'll

1413
01:03:49,239 --> 01:03:52,360
happen for thirty ish games, and that just isn't going

1414
01:03:52,440 --> 01:03:58,039
to be sustainable. So this Embiid's current contract to me

1415
01:03:58,360 --> 01:04:01,320
is one of the most imaging, maybe the most in

1416
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:05,880
the league, and Paul George might be a close second

1417
01:04:06,559 --> 01:04:09,559
unless he has a total turnaround like in his mid thirties.

1418
01:04:10,039 --> 01:04:13,079
So yeah, I mean, we just missed on this. I

1419
01:04:13,079 --> 01:04:17,039
think we didn't account for George getting hurt falling off,

1420
01:04:18,119 --> 01:04:20,880
and we probably overrated. This is a real lesson that

1421
01:04:20,880 --> 01:04:23,559
we should have known by now. You gotta be careful

1422
01:04:23,760 --> 01:04:26,199
going with like what a steal at the minimum that

1423
01:04:26,239 --> 01:04:28,320
guy was, you know, because the Sixers had a ton

1424
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:30,639
of those and we liked them all. And I think ultimately,

1425
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,159
like Eric Gordon, at the minimum doesn't matter, Like if

1426
01:04:34,159 --> 01:04:36,599
it's a minimum player with very few exceptions, he's not

1427
01:04:36,639 --> 01:04:39,639
gonna matter. Even if we think, actually that guy's worth

1428
01:04:39,719 --> 01:04:41,360
like five million or you know what I mean. I

1429
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,039
think maybe that was a factor too, the.

1430
01:04:44,840 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't. I just don't know, And it sucks that.

1431
01:04:47,079 --> 01:04:50,440
I'm sure you read that ESPN profile was excellent on him,

1432
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:53,960
Joel Embiid, and it gives you it's really just soul

1433
01:04:54,079 --> 01:04:55,840
thundering to read something like that when you look at

1434
01:04:55,840 --> 01:04:57,239
all the stuff he's had to deal with, what's going

1435
01:04:57,280 --> 01:04:59,480
for his head out feels like he really can't trust anyone.

1436
01:04:59,800 --> 01:05:02,679
But like, just from a basketball perspective right now, it's

1437
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:05,880
I don't know, it was questionable to do that in

1438
01:05:05,920 --> 01:05:08,159
the moment, and like you could have waited, and now

1439
01:05:08,719 --> 01:05:10,880
he is the worst contract in the league, especially now

1440
01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,440
that Bradley Beal is a dead cap hit for Phoenix.

1441
01:05:13,559 --> 01:05:17,400
So it's just it sucks and he probably still I

1442
01:05:17,400 --> 01:05:19,159
think he'll still look like a first team All NBA

1443
01:05:19,199 --> 01:05:21,199
player at points. It's like you said, though, it will

1444
01:05:21,199 --> 01:05:23,920
probably be for thirty games here, Like are they going

1445
01:05:23,960 --> 01:05:25,719
to be consecutive games? I have no idea. Well he

1446
01:05:25,760 --> 01:05:29,599
ever looked like that in the playoffs is the bigger thing. Uh.

1447
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:31,559
The other stuff, I mean, like they were able to

1448
01:05:31,559 --> 01:05:34,039
get like they turned Cayler Martin into Quentin Grimes. So

1449
01:05:34,079 --> 01:05:36,400
it's like that deal looks really bad now, but they're

1450
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:38,760
able to turn it into someone who has not signed

1451
01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:41,000
a new contract yet as we record this, but could

1452
01:05:41,039 --> 01:05:44,039
be really valuable for them. Drummond deal didn't really work

1453
01:05:44,079 --> 01:05:45,880
out for them. The Paul George, I don't know where

1454
01:05:45,920 --> 01:05:48,920
to what was anyone really saying, oh, why did they

1455
01:05:48,920 --> 01:05:51,239
sign Paul George? And the what was the they went

1456
01:05:51,280 --> 01:05:52,960
to cap space routes? If you're saying they shouldn't have

1457
01:05:52,960 --> 01:05:55,039
sign Paul George you wanted them to do, I guess

1458
01:05:55,159 --> 01:05:57,000
what is how I kind of wrapped my head. So

1459
01:05:57,039 --> 01:05:59,199
it does look bad now the great needs to come down,

1460
01:05:59,239 --> 01:06:02,360
but it's like, I'm not out on Paul George and

1461
01:06:02,719 --> 01:06:06,039
like he could just be healthier next year and that

1462
01:06:06,079 --> 01:06:08,280
could be enough to make the Sixers interesting, especially with

1463
01:06:08,360 --> 01:06:12,599
you know, you have excuse me, uh Tyrese Maxey, you

1464
01:06:12,599 --> 01:06:14,280
have Jared McCain. If he's able to stay healthy, like

1465
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:16,960
this team could still be so pj Edgecombe as like

1466
01:06:17,119 --> 01:06:21,679
could be semi interesting. I just yeah that the embid

1467
01:06:21,760 --> 01:06:23,360
extension is the one I get hung up on because

1468
01:06:23,360 --> 01:06:25,280
I almost view as like Paul George, they had no

1469
01:06:25,440 --> 01:06:29,360
choice because they married themselves to that path and with Embiid.

1470
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,440
I'm like, they could have waited and they would still

1471
01:06:31,440 --> 01:06:32,480
have Joel Embiid on the.

1472
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,199
Speaker 2: Team, right, It really does all things circle back to Embiid,

1473
01:06:36,199 --> 01:06:38,280
because I mean, I think I can remember just killing

1474
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:41,400
the Clippers for not just just bring Paul George back

1475
01:06:41,400 --> 01:06:43,400
because obviously somebody wants him at that number. It means

1476
01:06:43,440 --> 01:06:45,239
you can trade him at that number, Like just do that.

1477
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,599
But like, if you have I'm sure we said, or

1478
01:06:49,639 --> 01:06:52,320
I said some version of if you have Joel Embiid,

1479
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:56,119
you're sort of and he just he was even less

1480
01:06:56,159 --> 01:06:58,400
removed from his MVP win then than he is now.

1481
01:06:58,440 --> 01:07:01,920
Obviously you're obligated to just go get the best veteran

1482
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:03,679
you can get, and that was Paul George and they

1483
01:07:03,679 --> 01:07:05,639
did it. And so like, yes, for where you are,

1484
01:07:05,719 --> 01:07:08,760
you're trying to win a title this year, you take

1485
01:07:08,760 --> 01:07:11,840
the risk of Paul George falling off or falling apart,

1486
01:07:11,960 --> 01:07:15,320
and the risk just came to bear, which you know,

1487
01:07:15,639 --> 01:07:19,000
so to me, I dropped them much lower. We like

1488
01:07:19,039 --> 01:07:21,039
I said, we both a plus them. I just dropped

1489
01:07:21,079 --> 01:07:25,679
them to an F because to oversimplify it, they signed

1490
01:07:25,800 --> 01:07:29,559
two agreements last summer. One is the worst in the league.

1491
01:07:29,960 --> 01:07:33,519
The other is probably in the top bottom five, And

1492
01:07:33,960 --> 01:07:36,360
I like, what else do you want me to do? Like,

1493
01:07:36,679 --> 01:07:38,880
if they're ever great again, I don't think it'll be

1494
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,159
because George and and Be lead them. It'll because like

1495
01:07:41,239 --> 01:07:45,440
MAXI takes a leap and somebody of the edgecomb Grimes

1496
01:07:46,199 --> 01:07:48,719
McCain group becomes an all you know what I mean, Like,

1497
01:07:48,800 --> 01:07:50,719
I don't. I think the deals they signed are just

1498
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:55,360
like potentially crippling. So I just and I hadn't done

1499
01:07:55,360 --> 01:07:57,119
an f yet, so I thought I should is the other.

1500
01:07:57,239 --> 01:07:59,119
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's fair. I just I mean, like

1501
01:07:59,280 --> 01:08:01,639
to get Max back and not have to give him

1502
01:08:01,639 --> 01:08:04,360
a player option when you made him wait to restrict

1503
01:08:04,400 --> 01:08:06,320
it free agency, I thought was like a good win.

1504
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:09,199
The Gershon Jaboucelli contract. Now you could say they didn't

1505
01:08:09,199 --> 01:08:11,119
get a team option on that and they ended up

1506
01:08:11,159 --> 01:08:13,280
losing him. They had to replace him with Trent and Wafford,

1507
01:08:13,280 --> 01:08:15,039
who still thought that was pretty good pick up for them.

1508
01:08:15,320 --> 01:08:17,039
I think you can go as low. I I think

1509
01:08:17,079 --> 01:08:19,039
you can look at this and just say what you

1510
01:08:19,079 --> 01:08:20,640
did is that they have two of the five worst

1511
01:08:20,680 --> 01:08:23,600
contracts on the books in the league, and at least

1512
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:27,039
one of them was like something they didn't need to

1513
01:08:27,079 --> 01:08:30,279
do even with operating inside their whole like cap space

1514
01:08:30,319 --> 01:08:33,119
plan or Immediacy plan. So I totally get it. It's

1515
01:08:33,720 --> 01:08:36,399
but yeah, that's not part of the regrade. But I

1516
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:38,840
also do think and the Jared McCain pick.

1517
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,880
Speaker 2: I know he got injured, but yeah, holy shit, it

1518
01:08:42,159 --> 01:08:45,079
probably shouldn't be an F I could be talking into

1519
01:08:45,119 --> 01:08:52,119
a D minus because you're right, McCain, MAXI good moves.

1520
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:53,079
I'm gonna leave it.

1521
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 1: We're onto the Toronto Raptors, who I like. Just in retrospect,

1522
01:08:57,680 --> 01:08:59,399
it just feels like a very nothing burger of an

1523
01:08:59,439 --> 01:09:01,760
offseason side from the Scotty Barnes extension. We will go

1524
01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:03,920
through it anyway, though, because that's what we do. And

1525
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,119
am I stalling just so I could timestamp this and

1526
01:09:06,399 --> 01:09:10,720
don't forget who's to say? They drafted Jacobe Walter at

1527
01:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,000
number nineteen. They drafted Jonathan Mobo at number thirty one.

1528
01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:16,680
Fun fact, Ran, I'm in love with him and I

1529
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,560
want them to free him because they have too many

1530
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,479
non spacing bigs. They traded one million dollars for Olmrich

1531
01:09:22,479 --> 01:09:25,640
Schampshay at number fifty seven. I very much liked that

1532
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:30,239
traded Jalen McDaniels for Davion Mitchell, Sasha Vazankov. Jamal Shed,

1533
01:09:30,239 --> 01:09:32,119
who was the number forty five pick in Portland's twenty

1534
01:09:32,119 --> 01:09:35,239
twenty five second round pick, signed Emmanuel Quickly for five years,

1535
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:38,720
one hundred and sixty two point five million dollars, Scottie

1536
01:09:38,720 --> 01:09:41,000
Barnes five year max, Bruce Brown. They picked up his

1537
01:09:41,039 --> 01:09:43,920
team option, Garrett Temple. He's gonna get a statue. What

1538
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:45,119
else is there to say? He was on a one

1539
01:09:45,159 --> 01:09:47,399
year minimum. They had Bruel Fernando at a one year

1540
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,880
minimum at the time. They had Brandon Carlson on a

1541
01:09:49,920 --> 01:09:52,000
two way, and they are responsible for letting him get

1542
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,119
to the Oklahoma City Thunder. So they get in f

1543
01:09:54,960 --> 01:09:58,000
Where did you? We were like, I actually think that

1544
01:09:58,039 --> 01:10:00,279
it kind of makes sense to so we both gave them.

1545
01:10:00,279 --> 01:10:01,880
We've been revealing it at the end, but like we'd

1546
01:10:01,880 --> 01:10:03,960
both given them. I gave them a C minus. You

1547
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,840
gave them a C in real at the time. How

1548
01:10:06,880 --> 01:10:08,079
are you feeling about this now?

1549
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:13,199
Speaker 2: So obviously the the rookies, I don't think I don't

1550
01:10:13,239 --> 01:10:17,119
see Jamal Shed anywhere here they ended up.

1551
01:10:17,119 --> 01:10:20,239
Speaker 1: He was Jamal Shed was part of the GEO mcdeanh

1552
01:10:20,239 --> 01:10:21,880
you were was Davion Mitchell Trade.

1553
01:10:21,880 --> 01:10:25,439
Speaker 2: So uh, I kind of liked their rookie I like Mobo.

1554
01:10:25,600 --> 01:10:27,760
I thought Walter who knows, but he showed a few

1555
01:10:27,760 --> 01:10:30,640
things and then shed was interesting. And like Jamison Battle,

1556
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:32,680
like I don't know how they ended up with him,

1557
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,760
but he made a million threes, so they that wouldn't

1558
01:10:37,760 --> 01:10:39,560
have been a factor because I couldn't possibly have had

1559
01:10:39,600 --> 01:10:41,800
opinions on how much I liked those guys prior to

1560
01:10:41,840 --> 01:10:42,840
seeing them last year.

1561
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:45,199
Speaker 1: Oh no, you had strong opinions on Jamison Battle.

1562
01:10:45,520 --> 01:10:48,119
Speaker 2: I'm sure. Yeah, it's just like where don't know where

1563
01:10:48,159 --> 01:10:53,319
it came from. That's but so like, I could definitely

1564
01:10:53,800 --> 01:10:57,680
see this moving up based on those guys, except for

1565
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,800
the fact that don't love the Quickly. It's funny to

1566
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:02,479
me that the Quickly deal is the one that's like

1567
01:11:02,560 --> 01:11:05,720
mentioned by everybody that's looking for more money and free agency, Like, well,

1568
01:11:05,720 --> 01:11:08,520
this fucking guy look at Quickly got one six two.

1569
01:11:09,000 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 1: Do you think that Yaka Pearl is gonna be the

1570
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:13,600
one that gets mentioned too? When the centers are looking

1571
01:11:13,680 --> 01:11:14,319
for money.

1572
01:11:14,600 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 2: You don't want to corner the market of like of

1573
01:11:17,720 --> 01:11:20,760
free agent and extensions and free agent deals that other

1574
01:11:20,840 --> 01:11:23,319
players agents point to as like, come on, you gotta

1575
01:11:23,319 --> 01:11:25,319
at least get me up to Pearl money, like that's

1576
01:11:25,319 --> 01:11:28,359
not what you want as Toronto. And then the Barnes deal.

1577
01:11:29,119 --> 01:11:31,800
I wish I could remember exactly what I thought about it.

1578
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,840
I bet I felt better about it than what Wagner's deal,

1579
01:11:35,199 --> 01:11:38,239
but I could imagine and no player options similarly, but

1580
01:11:38,239 --> 01:11:40,159
I could imagine kind of being like did we need

1581
01:11:40,239 --> 01:11:44,239
to go all the way on that? So? What did

1582
01:11:44,279 --> 01:11:45,039
we have last year?

1583
01:11:45,640 --> 01:11:45,760
Speaker 1: Uh?

1584
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,439
Speaker 2: You had? Oh? Interesting, I was higher than you on

1585
01:11:48,800 --> 01:11:52,800
C minus FORUC for me, well, I don't want to jump.

1586
01:11:52,840 --> 01:11:54,439
Do you have thoughts before we jump to what our

1587
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:55,439
what our regrades are?

1588
01:11:55,560 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: I think I get hung up Onto like what I like?

1589
01:11:58,159 --> 01:12:02,520
I like Jamal Shed, I like Mobo, I like Jacobe Walter.

1590
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:04,119
I'm fine on like he's got some really just like

1591
01:12:04,159 --> 01:12:07,640
on ball jiggle and joggle. But I'm just wondering, like,

1592
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:10,239
did they It doesn't seem and it felt this way

1593
01:12:10,279 --> 01:12:13,079
at the time unless you maybe part of this is

1594
01:12:13,119 --> 01:12:16,159
because quickly ended up playing so little again, but like

1595
01:12:16,199 --> 01:12:18,680
there's a lack of coherence to what they're doing here.

1596
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:21,279
Where's they might have a bunch of intriguing players, but

1597
01:12:21,359 --> 01:12:23,560
have they put even Scotty Barnes. I'm fine with the

1598
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:25,399
five year max still for him. I actually don't like

1599
01:12:25,399 --> 01:12:27,239
I think that's a net neutral deal at this moment,

1600
01:12:27,359 --> 01:12:29,239
and I if he was eligible for it now, I

1601
01:12:29,319 --> 01:12:32,119
might still give it to him. But like, I just

1602
01:12:32,800 --> 01:12:34,600
Jonathan Mobo is a good example. It's like, hey, that's

1603
01:12:34,600 --> 01:12:37,399
a really interesting player to have. You like the context

1604
01:12:37,399 --> 01:12:39,119
of your roster makes no sense for a lot of

1605
01:12:39,159 --> 01:12:41,399
the guys that you have. And it's continued with Colin

1606
01:12:41,479 --> 01:12:44,840
Murray Boyles now being on the team. So I and

1607
01:12:44,960 --> 01:12:47,560
the quickly deal. You've already mentioned this, but that wasn't

1608
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,319
one we know what restricted free agency. It's not just

1609
01:12:50,800 --> 01:12:54,239
was this offseason what it has been for years at

1610
01:12:54,239 --> 01:12:56,800
this point. And I know that you viewed him or

1611
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:58,520
not viewed him. You treated him as kind of this

1612
01:12:59,119 --> 01:13:03,239
crown jewel in the uh og Ananobi trade. But like

1613
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:06,159
you couldn't negotiate it a little bit harder. It's a

1614
01:13:06,159 --> 01:13:08,439
flat rate, so it's gonna it'll be worth sixteen percent

1615
01:13:08,479 --> 01:13:10,760
of the salary cap by the end of it. I

1616
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,039
just I don't know, man, I just feel like they

1617
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:15,920
could have negotiated harder on that, and he could still

1618
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:18,680
be really good. He's he's arguably like one of their

1619
01:13:18,680 --> 01:13:20,800
two or three most important players because of how he

1620
01:13:20,800 --> 01:13:23,720
can open up the floor for everybody else. But yeah,

1621
01:13:23,880 --> 01:13:26,279
I came out of this feeling not as good about

1622
01:13:26,279 --> 01:13:29,479
the offseason, even though it's just like, what's the one

1623
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,000
movie you point to and say, oh, they they effed up?

1624
01:13:32,119 --> 01:13:34,119
And I don't know that you could say they effed

1625
01:13:34,199 --> 01:13:36,279
up majorly in any one area for sure.

1626
01:13:36,800 --> 01:13:38,840
Speaker 2: I think that's right. So you went from C minus

1627
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:40,920
to D plus. I went from C to C minus.

1628
01:13:40,960 --> 01:13:43,199
So just like some minor we knocked it down a

1629
01:13:43,239 --> 01:13:45,520
little bit there. I do think you raise a good

1630
01:13:45,520 --> 01:13:50,359
point with Quickly, and I wonder if, like, tell me

1631
01:13:50,399 --> 01:13:54,319
if you do you think it's fair to look at

1632
01:13:54,319 --> 01:13:58,199
almost any deal that was signed last summer and Quickly

1633
01:13:58,279 --> 01:14:00,159
is a good example, because it's like we're hemming and

1634
01:14:00,199 --> 01:14:02,960
huing and kind of maybe think that's an overpay to

1635
01:14:03,039 --> 01:14:06,760
criticize deals like that, because it's like sometimes sometimes you

1636
01:14:06,800 --> 01:14:12,159
can't say, well, like you know who, just sometimes you

1637
01:14:12,239 --> 01:14:15,920
can say, well, we know what next summer is gonna

1638
01:14:15,920 --> 01:14:18,800
look like, and there's not money out there, Like imagine

1639
01:14:18,840 --> 01:14:21,439
if quickly as a restricted free agent this this summer,

1640
01:14:21,479 --> 01:14:23,760
Like he's probably still unsigned and we're talking about like

1641
01:14:23,800 --> 01:14:26,279
three year deals for sixty million or whatever it is, right,

1642
01:14:26,359 --> 01:14:29,760
like there's or like even Barns, it's like, okay, if

1643
01:14:29,800 --> 01:14:34,319
you don't five year, no options maxim, what's he gonna

1644
01:14:34,359 --> 01:14:38,119
get this year? Like I I do think the landscape

1645
01:14:38,199 --> 01:14:40,600
was clear enough. I'm trying to put a finer point

1646
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:43,279
on this. I know I'm rambling. I think teams should

1647
01:14:43,279 --> 01:14:45,880
have known enough about what free agency was gonna look

1648
01:14:45,920 --> 01:14:48,079
like and about how much cap space would be available

1649
01:14:48,119 --> 01:14:51,840
this summer to have been playing some much harder hardball

1650
01:14:52,000 --> 01:14:54,960
a year ago, because like you just if you don't

1651
01:14:54,960 --> 01:14:58,239
extend quickly, oh my god, he's gonna be so pissed

1652
01:14:58,239 --> 01:15:00,560
and like this isn't gonna work out. It's just like, yeah,

1653
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:02,479
but he's gonna get into free agency and there's not

1654
01:15:02,479 --> 01:15:04,119
gonna be any money, so we're gonna get him for

1655
01:15:04,199 --> 01:15:05,760
you know what I mean. Like, I do think it's

1656
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:08,479
maybe fair to criticize teams that jump the gun and

1657
01:15:08,560 --> 01:15:11,920
maybe overpaid a little bit, because everybody should have known

1658
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:15,840
that this summer was just not gonna be uh like

1659
01:15:16,079 --> 01:15:19,439
a cash rich environment for potential free agents.

1660
01:15:19,439 --> 01:15:21,239
Speaker 1: Right, and it's also just even look at I don't

1661
01:15:21,239 --> 01:15:23,079
want to keep bringing them up, but like the Rockets

1662
01:15:23,079 --> 01:15:26,079
were able to negotiate with Alpa and Shangun, but you

1663
01:15:26,119 --> 01:15:28,359
couldn't negotiate harder with the manual quickly. And they were

1664
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:31,199
able to negotiate with Ja Barry Smith Junior this past summer,

1665
01:15:31,199 --> 01:15:33,239
but you weren't able to negotiate with the manual quickly?

1666
01:15:33,600 --> 01:15:33,880
Speaker 2: Is it?

1667
01:15:34,199 --> 01:15:35,760
Speaker 1: I don't and I hate saying this, but is there's

1668
01:15:35,800 --> 01:15:38,079
sort of a Toronto tax here where they're really just

1669
01:15:38,079 --> 01:15:40,560
worry guys would leave for less money. Well I just

1670
01:15:40,920 --> 01:15:42,680
make someone give you an offer sheet or sign the

1671
01:15:42,720 --> 01:15:45,000
qualifying offer, but like I'll dare them to do it.

1672
01:15:45,079 --> 01:15:47,560
Then yeah's if that was the feeling. And there's a

1673
01:15:47,680 --> 01:15:50,359
chance I think Quickly could end up being worth this deal,

1674
01:15:50,680 --> 01:15:52,720
but a season of it was already burned. So it's

1675
01:15:52,760 --> 01:15:55,319
already just underwater because like he didn't live up to

1676
01:15:55,319 --> 01:15:58,520
that price point. I and look, you can't. I don't

1677
01:15:58,520 --> 01:16:00,840
think you could say that you feel I feel the

1678
01:16:00,840 --> 01:16:02,880
same about Scotty Barnes, a deal where I still would

1679
01:16:02,880 --> 01:16:04,279
have given it to him, But you can't sit here

1680
01:16:04,279 --> 01:16:06,359
into like Scottie Barnes at the type of season made

1681
01:16:06,399 --> 01:16:08,199
me feel like he's just gonna be perfect and this

1682
01:16:08,199 --> 01:16:09,880
deal is gonna end up making so much sense. We

1683
01:16:09,880 --> 01:16:11,840
can say that about Kid, we could say that about

1684
01:16:11,880 --> 01:16:14,600
Evan Mobley. Still super high on Scotty Barnes. I'm actually

1685
01:16:14,640 --> 01:16:17,840
super intrigued by this Raptors team. But there is a

1686
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:20,520
level of if I don't want to say, if it's

1687
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,199
not a lack of coherence, they've definitely just like kind

1688
01:16:23,199 --> 01:16:25,680
of hidden what they're trying to do from us, like

1689
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:27,199
with the overarching plan.

1690
01:16:27,359 --> 01:16:30,159
Speaker 2: To what end. Like's hard to say why.

1691
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,359
Speaker 1: Grant I made a mistake and it took someone an

1692
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,479
entire year to find it. Rome says minor quibble. Did'

1693
01:16:35,600 --> 01:16:38,159
Orlando immediately trade Antonio Reeves the Pelicans on Draft night?

1694
01:16:38,199 --> 01:16:40,000
I double checked that, or I should have double checked that.

1695
01:16:40,720 --> 01:16:43,079
Rome is correct, So thanks for pointing that out there. Luckily,

1696
01:16:43,079 --> 01:16:46,159
Antonio Reeves did not factor heavily into the grade or

1697
01:16:46,199 --> 01:16:48,359
the regrade of the Orlando Magic.

1698
01:16:48,600 --> 01:16:50,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. I the only thing I remember about Antonio Reeves

1699
01:16:50,920 --> 01:16:53,039
is he had a thirty something point game I think

1700
01:16:53,279 --> 01:16:56,079
for New Orleans, and I was grading rookie classes last year,

1701
01:16:56,119 --> 01:16:57,840
and I was very annoyed because, like, God, I gotta

1702
01:16:57,840 --> 01:16:58,880
talk about this guy now.

1703
01:16:58,960 --> 01:17:01,600
Speaker 1: Like the question, speaking of the Pelicans, what's the over

1704
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:04,680
under the number number of triple doubles that Elfred Payton

1705
01:17:04,760 --> 01:17:06,479
ends up having for the Pelicans.

1706
01:17:06,039 --> 01:17:11,239
Speaker 2: By the end of X seven seven point five's.

1707
01:17:10,199 --> 01:17:13,319
Speaker 1: We get to leave Final Division grant. We're moving at

1708
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:15,199
like a blistering pace by our standards.

1709
01:17:15,199 --> 01:17:17,720
Speaker 2: Pretty good. Oh here we go. Oh do I get

1710
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:19,079
this one. I'm gonna take this one. I don't care.

1711
01:17:19,239 --> 01:17:20,239
Speaker 1: It is yours, so you can.

1712
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:23,079
Speaker 2: We're on the Chicago Bulls, who you may recall, traded

1713
01:17:23,119 --> 01:17:28,159
Alex Caruso for Josh Giddy and that's it. Drafted modest

1714
01:17:28,159 --> 01:17:31,199
Bizzellis at number eleven. That's somebody else's bit, but I

1715
01:17:31,239 --> 01:17:34,439
think it's a funny one. Patrick Williams got five years

1716
01:17:34,520 --> 01:17:36,680
ninety million. Got a player option on it too, because

1717
01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:40,000
you got to give Patrick Williams a player option. Jalen

1718
01:17:40,039 --> 01:17:42,359
Smith three years twenty seven million. They signed and traded

1719
01:17:42,359 --> 01:17:44,560
to Marta Roz into the Kings for Chris Duarte, a

1720
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:47,000
twenty five second round pick, a twenty eight second round pick,

1721
01:17:47,159 --> 01:17:51,800
and Raikwan Gray. Signed Adamos Snogo and DJ Stewart to

1722
01:17:51,840 --> 01:17:57,159
two ways. We didn't love this last.

1723
01:17:56,880 --> 01:18:01,640
Speaker 1: Summer across the board, right, Oh no, I went F

1724
01:18:01,720 --> 01:18:05,000
minus uf minus respect it much respect.

1725
01:18:05,119 --> 01:18:08,279
Speaker 2: I just went with a conventional f uh. But we

1726
01:18:08,359 --> 01:18:09,960
had a lot of f's. Actually there's a few in

1727
01:18:10,000 --> 01:18:11,159
the West teaser.

1728
01:18:11,720 --> 01:18:14,560
Speaker 1: One of them is going to be reversed, right, Yeah,

1729
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:15,000
I believe.

1730
01:18:15,760 --> 01:18:17,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, the one I'm looking at right now is gonna

1731
01:18:17,640 --> 01:18:19,680
definitely be reversed. I might go all the way to

1732
01:18:19,720 --> 01:18:22,399
an A to be honest, but we're talking about the Bulls.

1733
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:26,000
So everybody hated Giddy for Cruz, so kind of looks. Well,

1734
01:18:26,399 --> 01:18:29,239
tell me, what do you think since Giddy obviously unsigned

1735
01:18:29,239 --> 01:18:33,720
still in restricted free agency, is it is there room

1736
01:18:33,760 --> 01:18:35,960
for this for this to be a positive trade for

1737
01:18:36,000 --> 01:18:38,039
the Bulls if Giddy comes back.

1738
01:18:38,560 --> 01:18:40,800
Speaker 1: No, look, you didn't even know what I was gonna say,

1739
01:18:41,319 --> 01:18:42,039
go ahead, go ahead.

1740
01:18:42,079 --> 01:18:44,039
Speaker 2: What if he agrees to pay the Bulls twenty million

1741
01:18:44,039 --> 01:18:45,119
a year to be on the team.

1742
01:18:45,439 --> 01:18:47,840
Speaker 1: Here's my I think. So you were gonna go something

1743
01:18:47,840 --> 01:18:49,760
along the lines of, what if he just comes back

1744
01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:53,199
on a deal that we deem ultra reasonable? Is like, congratulations,

1745
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,239
you decided to trade someone who at one point, And

1746
01:18:56,279 --> 01:18:58,239
I don't want to hear this from any commenters who

1747
01:18:58,239 --> 01:19:00,640
claim to have sources. You could want Point have gotten

1748
01:19:00,640 --> 01:19:03,119
two first round picks for him, and you decided to

1749
01:19:03,159 --> 01:19:08,720
trade that for ultra reasonable awesome, Like, that's that's the

1750
01:19:08,800 --> 01:19:11,479
problem here. I think now, I think the Bulls are

1751
01:19:11,479 --> 01:19:15,560
playing the Josh Giddy negotiations correctly, and he had, by

1752
01:19:15,600 --> 01:19:18,840
his standards, a fine season. What is your endgame with

1753
01:19:18,960 --> 01:19:21,079
Josh Giddy? And you've now put yourself in this weird

1754
01:19:21,119 --> 01:19:24,199
position to where whatever you pay Josh Giddy is gonna

1755
01:19:24,199 --> 01:19:27,039
factor into Kobe White's future. Who is the better player,

1756
01:19:27,279 --> 01:19:29,119
and you probably should trade him. But if you're not,

1757
01:19:29,600 --> 01:19:31,840
are you gonna pay these dudes like a combined sixty

1758
01:19:31,880 --> 01:19:34,000
million dollars a year moving forward to be your back court?

1759
01:19:34,039 --> 01:19:37,119
And where is that getting you? So? There is there?

1760
01:19:37,199 --> 01:19:39,239
This my grade for the Bulls spoiler, it's gonna go

1761
01:19:39,279 --> 01:19:41,279
up because I ended up liking the Jalen Smith deal

1762
01:19:41,319 --> 01:19:42,880
I thought was ended up being pretty good for them.

1763
01:19:42,880 --> 01:19:44,119
I love Madus Buzellis.

1764
01:19:44,439 --> 01:19:45,079
Speaker 2: That's it for me.

1765
01:19:45,880 --> 01:19:49,800
Speaker 1: But there's the job there is There's no case you

1766
01:19:49,840 --> 01:19:52,520
can make where the Josh Getty trade makes sense now

1767
01:19:52,560 --> 01:19:54,800
And if anything. The fact that they feel the need

1768
01:19:54,800 --> 01:19:58,039
to negotiate him and squeeze him kind of just reinforces

1769
01:19:58,039 --> 01:20:00,760
our point because they do not think they're not looking

1770
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,239
at him saying that's like a top twenty player, but

1771
01:20:03,279 --> 01:20:05,359
we're gonna try and squeeze him because the market has

1772
01:20:05,399 --> 01:20:09,079
driven h No, No, I'm not sure he's good. That's

1773
01:20:09,159 --> 01:20:11,479
exactly what you could say, Well, they dodged a bullet

1774
01:20:11,479 --> 01:20:14,399
with the Alex Caruso extension. No, you could have traded

1775
01:20:14,520 --> 01:20:16,560
and maybe he couldn't have gotten you two first round

1776
01:20:16,560 --> 01:20:18,800
picks last summer. I think he could have. He could

1777
01:20:18,840 --> 01:20:20,600
have gotten you two first round picks at some point.

1778
01:20:20,680 --> 01:20:22,720
And it is this is not with the benefit of hindsight,

1779
01:20:22,760 --> 01:20:25,239
where it's we couldn't have known the Bulls needed. Yes,

1780
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:27,680
we could have. We knew they needed to trade him

1781
01:20:27,720 --> 01:20:31,439
for years. So I again, Josh Getty had a better

1782
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:33,640
season than I expected, especially when it came to shooting

1783
01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:35,239
the ball. But as someone if you're looking at him

1784
01:20:35,239 --> 01:20:39,760
for rim pressure, drawing fouls. Defensively, he's basically like a

1785
01:20:40,319 --> 01:20:41,880
I won't even call him a four, but it's we

1786
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,199
need to put him on like the slowest footed perimeter

1787
01:20:44,239 --> 01:20:46,840
player out there and hope that a team has said

1788
01:20:46,880 --> 01:20:50,159
player for that to work. It was it was a

1789
01:20:50,199 --> 01:20:52,079
bad trade for them, and I don't think it doesn't

1790
01:20:52,079 --> 01:20:53,760
look any worse now, is that a compliment?

1791
01:20:53,840 --> 01:20:56,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, we we hated it. Then it's not any different.

1792
01:20:56,159 --> 01:20:59,560
I mean, so it's it's the Caruso trade, hate it

1793
01:21:00,039 --> 01:21:03,960
the Patrick Williams deal. I mean, like it's a different

1794
01:21:04,039 --> 01:21:07,920
brand of bad, but it's all it might be equally bad, right,

1795
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:10,399
Like it's a different type of transaction. It's just this

1796
01:21:10,760 --> 01:21:13,960
he could just work. Hey, just just chop in whatever

1797
01:21:14,000 --> 01:21:16,560
we said last summer about it, because nothing has changed,

1798
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:19,359
which is just like who was competing, who was going

1799
01:21:19,399 --> 01:21:22,119
to go to ninety, who was offering a player option

1800
01:21:22,319 --> 01:21:24,279
that you needed. It's just it's it's all the same,

1801
01:21:24,359 --> 01:21:28,399
like they're just now, Look, Williams didn't even get.

1802
01:21:28,239 --> 01:21:31,119
Speaker 1: A player option in Jalen Williams.

1803
01:21:30,920 --> 01:21:33,359
Speaker 2: In the grand scheme of things. Ninety million dollars over

1804
01:21:33,399 --> 01:21:37,000
five years is actually not like a you're not crippled

1805
01:21:37,039 --> 01:21:41,039
because of this deal. It's just that like if I

1806
01:21:41,039 --> 01:21:43,760
don't know, somebody put I'm sure it's somebody put together

1807
01:21:43,800 --> 01:21:49,359
a formula that weighs Patrick Williams's on court contributions and

1808
01:21:49,399 --> 01:21:52,680
assigns a dollar value to those over five years. Is

1809
01:21:52,720 --> 01:21:56,439
it thirty million? Like you know what I mean, Like

1810
01:21:56,520 --> 01:21:58,840
if you're just talking about like what he produces for

1811
01:21:58,920 --> 01:22:01,239
you on the court, it's it's just this is a

1812
01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:03,720
terrible deal, and it's made worse by the fact that

1813
01:22:03,800 --> 01:22:08,039
absolutely nobody, like absolutely nobody was going this many years

1814
01:22:08,119 --> 01:22:10,800
or dollars right, Like we don't know that, but it's

1815
01:22:10,800 --> 01:22:13,680
like who would have I just it's just it's it's

1816
01:22:14,039 --> 01:22:16,239
it's as bad, I think as the trade, as the

1817
01:22:16,279 --> 01:22:18,239
Cruz O Giddy trade. It's just kind of different.

1818
01:22:18,680 --> 01:22:21,640
Speaker 1: It's I think you can make it worse, say it's worse. Well,

1819
01:22:21,680 --> 01:22:23,319
I guess you could say Patrick Williams might have had

1820
01:22:23,439 --> 01:22:25,600
upside too, but at least you didn't. Like you're the

1821
01:22:25,640 --> 01:22:27,920
team that's supposed to have the most information on Patrick

1822
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:31,479
Williams in this scenario, and you were negotiating against yourself

1823
01:22:31,880 --> 01:22:33,760
and getting like if the biggest defense is like, hey,

1824
01:22:33,800 --> 01:22:35,680
he's only on the books for eight something percent of

1825
01:22:35,680 --> 01:22:37,760
the salary cap in the final year as a player option,

1826
01:22:38,319 --> 01:22:41,000
he's probably gonna pick up that player option. Like that's

1827
01:22:41,039 --> 01:22:43,880
not that's not a win. So yeah, this was still

1828
01:22:43,960 --> 01:22:45,840
kind of a bad offseason for them even and like

1829
01:22:45,880 --> 01:22:48,479
the demarg Rosen trade, like you didn't even get the

1830
01:22:48,520 --> 01:22:50,000
best asset involved in that deal.

1831
01:22:50,399 --> 01:22:53,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, san Antonio got it right. The pick ended up

1832
01:22:53,960 --> 01:22:54,880
going there, and.

1833
01:22:54,840 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 1: You know what they did. They got the best asset

1834
01:22:56,800 --> 01:22:58,920
in the Zachlavine trade too, like even though they were

1835
01:22:58,960 --> 01:23:00,960
the team that was giving up at because.

1836
01:23:01,439 --> 01:23:05,279
Speaker 2: Just so you it's just to put a bow on it.

1837
01:23:05,319 --> 01:23:08,479
You said F minus. I said, f You've vaulted all

1838
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:10,319
the way up to a D minus and I've joined

1839
01:23:10,359 --> 01:23:13,159
you there, and it's for me. It's Bizellis. It was

1840
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:15,720
like a really exciting rookie, and I you know, I

1841
01:23:15,720 --> 01:23:17,600
think it's probably more than you have a right to

1842
01:23:17,640 --> 01:23:19,880
expect out of a number eleven pick and a bad draft.

1843
01:23:19,920 --> 01:23:24,039
So really that's the only Jalen Smith is sure, But

1844
01:23:24,159 --> 01:23:26,880
like it's really just Bizillis was better than I expected,

1845
01:23:27,159 --> 01:23:29,079
and that's the only reason the Bulls get out of

1846
01:23:29,119 --> 01:23:29,800
the F range.

1847
01:23:30,159 --> 01:23:31,840
Speaker 1: I think part of my logic here too was I

1848
01:23:31,880 --> 01:23:34,720
guess the Josh Getty trade might look a touch better

1849
01:23:35,239 --> 01:23:37,000
just because he played better than I expected. But it's

1850
01:23:37,000 --> 01:23:39,119
still just not one that I don't know what's the

1851
01:23:39,199 --> 01:23:42,079
highest end out, Like, how does that trade? Is there

1852
01:23:42,079 --> 01:23:43,640
a scenario that he does, Like what would he have

1853
01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:45,640
to do on the court as a player, what would

1854
01:23:45,680 --> 01:23:48,520
he need to develop for it to be that trade

1855
01:23:48,560 --> 01:23:49,479
to be considered a w.

1856
01:23:49,760 --> 01:23:52,039
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a it's an unfair answer. But

1857
01:23:52,119 --> 01:23:56,000
he would have to prove that he could like drive winning,

1858
01:23:56,159 --> 01:23:58,399
Like he would have to actually prove that like all

1859
01:23:58,439 --> 01:24:01,960
of the flaws we fixate on don't prevent him from

1860
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:04,520
being a net positive player on a good team. Like

1861
01:24:04,560 --> 01:24:07,880
that's just I don't know, and like it's just weighed

1862
01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:11,359
against two first round picks. You know, I don't know

1863
01:24:11,359 --> 01:24:13,880
if there's anything realistically he could do that that would

1864
01:24:14,239 --> 01:24:15,960
two years from now, we'd both have to sit here

1865
01:24:15,960 --> 01:24:18,800
and say, hey, you know what we were wrong. Turns

1866
01:24:18,800 --> 01:24:21,039
out turns out that was a better return than two

1867
01:24:21,039 --> 01:24:22,279
first for Alex Caruso.

1868
01:24:23,479 --> 01:24:27,840
Speaker 1: We move on to the Cleveland Cavaliers, and their moves

1869
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:32,119
were that we graded. They fired JB. Bickerstaff, they hired

1870
01:24:32,399 --> 01:24:34,239
Kenny atkins In as their head coach replace, and they

1871
01:24:34,319 --> 01:24:38,159
drafted Jaalen Tyson at number twenty. They signed Don Mitchell

1872
01:24:38,159 --> 01:24:39,760
to do a three year, one or to fifty million dollar

1873
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:43,239
extension player option. On the final season they extended. Evan

1874
01:24:43,239 --> 01:24:46,640
Mobley got the five year max, Jared Allen three years

1875
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:48,520
ninety points that that was an extension that took us

1876
01:24:48,560 --> 01:24:51,479
fully guaranteed three years ninety point seven million. That took

1877
01:24:51,560 --> 01:24:53,039
us by surprise because that was the guy's like, oh,

1878
01:24:53,399 --> 01:24:55,560
we're gonna we have in the notes here isaaca kor

1879
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:57,720
what the fuck? Because it was taking forever for them

1880
01:24:57,760 --> 01:24:59,920
to sign him. He ended up signing a three year,

1881
01:25:00,199 --> 01:25:02,359
thirty three million dollars deal that they then turned into

1882
01:25:02,439 --> 01:25:05,479
Lonzo Ball. It's like, in fact, that's like good work

1883
01:25:05,520 --> 01:25:08,600
by the Calves there. Uh, we were I don't want

1884
01:25:08,640 --> 01:25:10,159
to say we were neutral. We gave them each I

1885
01:25:10,159 --> 01:25:12,479
think a B plus. I gave them a B. You

1886
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:14,960
gave them a B plus. If anything, I don't know

1887
01:25:15,000 --> 01:25:17,079
how you look back on that offseason and think, oh, yeah,

1888
01:25:17,079 --> 01:25:18,000
I feel worse about it.

1889
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:22,039
Speaker 2: No, yeah, I think if your concerns with the Calves

1890
01:25:22,079 --> 01:25:24,239
at the moment, I guess are that, like all the

1891
01:25:24,279 --> 01:25:27,960
two small guards just may never work. It puts a

1892
01:25:28,159 --> 01:25:31,000
you know, puts a conference finals or whatever ceiling on

1893
01:25:31,000 --> 01:25:32,600
on your upside as a team. I don't know if

1894
01:25:32,600 --> 01:25:36,479
that's actually true. I just think so I moved the

1895
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:38,720
grade up we were. You're correct, you had him at

1896
01:25:38,720 --> 01:25:41,039
a B. I had him at a B plus. I

1897
01:25:41,079 --> 01:25:43,359
went to an A minus. You went to an A.

1898
01:25:43,359 --> 01:25:46,520
Atkinson's an upgrade over Bickerstaff. Although Bickerstaff we're going to

1899
01:25:46,600 --> 01:25:48,680
talk about him momentarily when we get to the Pistons

1900
01:25:49,079 --> 01:25:54,439
landed on his feet. Yeah. The Mobile deal, that's yes,

1901
01:25:54,560 --> 01:25:57,640
you do that, No, no question asked there. The Allen deal,

1902
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,640
maybe you look at it skeptically. I still don't. I don't.

1903
01:26:00,800 --> 01:26:03,960
I don't know. Well, actually, there's there's an embargo on

1904
01:26:04,039 --> 01:26:08,079
us discussing Jared Allen contracts for obvious reasons, because we're

1905
01:26:08,079 --> 01:26:09,720
never right about him.

1906
01:26:09,920 --> 01:26:12,199
Speaker 1: Has enough time asked for us to discuss that one?

1907
01:26:13,399 --> 01:26:15,760
Do you feel only differently about the Mobie deal because

1908
01:26:15,800 --> 01:26:17,640
he wins Defensive Player of the Year and now it's

1909
01:26:17,680 --> 01:26:22,239
the five it's like the the rookie max excuse me?

1910
01:26:22,319 --> 01:26:27,159
Speaker 2: Rather than I feel like that you're in and whenever

1911
01:26:27,199 --> 01:26:29,119
that happens, I think you're happy about it as the team.

1912
01:26:29,560 --> 01:26:33,199
I think so, yeah, it doesn't. It certainly doesn't make

1913
01:26:33,239 --> 01:26:34,760
me feel worse that like, oh no, they have to

1914
01:26:34,760 --> 01:26:36,960
pay a few million more I'm just curious for I mean,

1915
01:26:37,000 --> 01:26:38,800
and the fact that he improved offensively I think is

1916
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,840
a big deal there too. Yeah. I think if there

1917
01:26:41,840 --> 01:26:45,119
weren't limits on what you could pay on extensions, he

1918
01:26:45,119 --> 01:26:46,079
would have deserved more.

1919
01:26:46,159 --> 01:26:46,640
Speaker 1: Probably.

1920
01:26:47,359 --> 01:26:50,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, great offseason for the Cavs. Not really anything else

1921
01:26:50,079 --> 01:26:51,479
to add to that unless you have something.

1922
01:26:52,399 --> 01:26:54,319
Speaker 1: No, that was there that was last off season was

1923
01:26:54,399 --> 01:26:55,960
whe everyone was calling for them to like bust it

1924
01:26:56,079 --> 01:26:58,159
up too, and we were That feels like forever ago.

1925
01:26:58,199 --> 01:26:59,720
But I think you and I predicted we set the

1926
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,960
over under at point five of all four coming back,

1927
01:27:03,000 --> 01:27:05,039
and you and I took I think both took the

1928
01:27:05,760 --> 01:27:08,359
or being traded and we both took the over for sure.

1929
01:27:08,439 --> 01:27:11,520
Speaker 2: Well. That that the Athletic article that came out like

1930
01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:14,399
right after they were eliminated and called Jared Allen soft

1931
01:27:14,439 --> 01:27:16,760
and Darius Carland wants to explore options. Is like what

1932
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:19,239
elsew what other conclusions were we gonna draw?

1933
01:27:20,319 --> 01:27:22,079
Speaker 1: I don't know, you know what. Sham's was still at

1934
01:27:22,079 --> 01:27:24,800
the Athletic at that point. He was, uh, he was

1935
01:27:24,800 --> 01:27:26,640
working off the roster, hes getting ready for ESPN, and

1936
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:30,000
so he saw he dumped all the the stuff. Yeah,

1937
01:27:30,079 --> 01:27:32,720
that wouldn't come true. Uh did you try pistons? You

1938
01:27:32,760 --> 01:27:34,239
want to take us through them? Yep?

1939
01:27:34,319 --> 01:27:37,199
Speaker 2: They fired Money Williams and hired the aforementioned JB. Bickerstaff

1940
01:27:37,239 --> 01:27:41,199
got a five year deal there. Uh No, Probably most importantly, JB.

1941
01:27:41,279 --> 01:27:43,560
Bickerstaff wanted that job, so he was an upgrade over

1942
01:27:43,640 --> 01:27:46,079
Money Williams, who did not want it.

1943
01:27:46,119 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, did he even want a job or was

1944
01:27:48,000 --> 01:27:49,319
it just the Pistons. I'm curious.

1945
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:51,800
Speaker 2: I mean, if you I would, I would do a

1946
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:53,239
lot of jobs I didn't want to do. For what

1947
01:27:53,279 --> 01:27:55,319
did he get nine million a year? She's still getting

1948
01:27:55,439 --> 01:27:56,119
so good for him?

1949
01:27:56,479 --> 01:27:56,640
Speaker 1: Uh?

1950
01:27:56,800 --> 01:27:59,720
Speaker 2: Drafted Ron Han at number five, got Tobias Harris and

1951
01:27:59,800 --> 01:28:01,920
for agency for two years and fifty two million. Cad

1952
01:28:01,960 --> 01:28:06,600
Cunningham got his five year rookie Max has the supermax

1953
01:28:06,720 --> 01:28:09,000
qualifiers on there? Did he make all NBA? I can't

1954
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:11,800
even remember it. So he's got that five for two

1955
01:28:11,880 --> 01:28:14,279
sixty nine instead of two twenty four. Those are probably

1956
01:28:14,279 --> 01:28:15,760
a little off. I don't know what the CAP's doing.

1957
01:28:16,439 --> 01:28:19,000
They traded Quentin Grimes for Tim Hardaway Junior, a twenty

1958
01:28:19,039 --> 01:28:21,880
five second from Toronto, a twenty twenty eight second from Miami,

1959
01:28:21,920 --> 01:28:24,720
and a twenty eight second uh from the Clippers or

1960
01:28:24,840 --> 01:28:28,319
Charlotte Uh. They traded camp Spencer number fifty one for

1961
01:28:28,359 --> 01:28:32,039
Wendell Moore Junior and Bobie Clintman number thirty seven got

1962
01:28:32,119 --> 01:28:34,840
Malik Beasley for one year and six million dollars. That's

1963
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,720
that's a that's a pretty good deal as long for

1964
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,640
a one year. Simoni Fontecio got two year, sixteen million

1965
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:44,800
Paul Reid they claimed off waivers. Dan, we like someone

1966
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:48,520
looked down here. We both were like meh, pretty meh

1967
01:28:48,680 --> 01:28:52,680
about the Pistons offseason. I think we both feel quite

1968
01:28:52,680 --> 01:28:54,720
a bit better about it. What's your favorite? What's the

1969
01:28:54,760 --> 01:28:58,640
best move they made? The best move in hindsight? Man?

1970
01:28:58,760 --> 01:29:01,600
Speaker 1: Is it? I mean probably just extending kid Cunningham, but

1971
01:29:01,600 --> 01:29:04,760
it probably would be just because was he ever knock

1972
01:29:04,760 --> 01:29:08,359
going to extend with them? Would be hiring JB. Bickerstaff, Right.

1973
01:29:08,520 --> 01:29:12,119
Speaker 2: I think it's one of those two, And like the

1974
01:29:12,159 --> 01:29:14,640
Cunningham one, I think was just that was gonna happen.

1975
01:29:14,800 --> 01:29:17,159
There wasn't any I can't remember what we talked about.

1976
01:29:17,199 --> 01:29:19,000
I don't think there was any like hemming and hawing

1977
01:29:19,119 --> 01:29:20,800
over it always be worth it. I think it was

1978
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:21,640
from us.

1979
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:25,239
Speaker 1: No, but it was a pretty divisive, tokic, toxic topic

1980
01:29:25,399 --> 01:29:28,279
I think in NBA circles in general. But he kind

1981
01:29:28,279 --> 01:29:30,159
of answered the bell on that one ten times.

1982
01:29:30,199 --> 01:29:33,359
Speaker 2: I gotta believe I wasn't in love with the bickerstaff

1983
01:29:33,399 --> 01:29:35,279
higher because I kind of just viewed him as like

1984
01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:39,880
he's the twentieth to twenty fifth best coach in the league,

1985
01:29:39,920 --> 01:29:41,840
Like what difference is he possibly gonna make? Turns out

1986
01:29:41,880 --> 01:29:43,960
a lot when the baseline is as low as it

1987
01:29:44,119 --> 01:29:48,760
was under Williams. So yeah, that in some ways that's

1988
01:29:48,760 --> 01:29:50,840
an easy hire. It's kind of it's a retread. You

1989
01:29:50,880 --> 01:29:53,359
probably didn't have to pay him that much. But in

1990
01:29:53,399 --> 01:29:55,640
other ways, like maybe it's kind of inspired because he

1991
01:29:56,039 --> 01:29:58,359
very much seemed like the exact right coach for the

1992
01:29:58,399 --> 01:30:01,720
phase of development that the Pistons found themselves in last year.

1993
01:30:02,039 --> 01:30:04,000
So and I think we both like Ron Holland. I

1994
01:30:04,159 --> 01:30:06,279
don't know if you're redrafting if you knock him down

1995
01:30:06,279 --> 01:30:08,720
a spot or move him up, but five totally totally

1996
01:30:08,720 --> 01:30:11,680
defensible pick. I think to take him at five, Harris

1997
01:30:11,760 --> 01:30:14,880
is fine twenty six million a year on average. And

1998
01:30:14,880 --> 01:30:16,840
then obviously the results were what they were, Like the

1999
01:30:16,840 --> 01:30:19,640
Pistons won three times as many games as they did

2000
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:20,319
the year before.

2001
01:30:20,760 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we did quibble over like what Quentin

2002
01:30:24,960 --> 01:30:27,720
Grimes got them like they got it felt like even

2003
01:30:27,720 --> 01:30:29,560
in time, they took on the worst player and just

2004
01:30:29,600 --> 01:30:32,520
weren't compensated enough. And then the other thing too. This

2005
01:30:32,600 --> 01:30:34,800
is very small at the moment, but I really like

2006
01:30:34,880 --> 01:30:37,079
Cam Spencer and the fact that, like Bobby Clinton doesn't

2007
01:30:37,119 --> 01:30:39,159
seem like he's gonna fa and I liked him, doesn't

2008
01:30:39,199 --> 01:30:41,720
feel like he's gonna factor in makes me a little bit.

2009
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:44,760
I have some trepidation there. But that's again you're having

2010
01:30:44,760 --> 01:30:46,840
in hallingd. This Semoni five techot deal did not turn

2011
01:30:46,880 --> 01:30:49,239
out to be as good as we expected. He kind

2012
01:30:49,239 --> 01:30:50,520
of fell off the face of the earth for them.

2013
01:30:50,520 --> 01:30:53,119
But the Malie Beasley deal, regardless of what he has

2014
01:30:53,159 --> 01:30:57,039
going on off the court and is currently unsigned, that

2015
01:30:57,159 --> 01:31:00,000
ended up being like the second year running, he would

2016
01:31:00,159 --> 01:31:02,119
one of the best contracts I got a per dollar

2017
01:31:02,199 --> 01:31:03,239
basis on the NBA.

2018
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean he was at times, you know, obviously

2019
01:31:06,359 --> 01:31:09,159
Cunningham's their most important offensive player, but like there were

2020
01:31:09,199 --> 01:31:12,239
a lot of stretches where Beasley was number two, Like

2021
01:31:12,359 --> 01:31:14,600
in terms of like how important are you to making

2022
01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:18,479
this offense work. So yeah, six million for him is phenomenal.

2023
01:31:18,560 --> 01:31:21,640
So you started at a C plus last year I

2024
01:31:21,640 --> 01:31:24,640
gave him a C. We've both moved him to B plus.

2025
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,319
Hard to argue with the results. Like most of their

2026
01:31:27,319 --> 01:31:30,199
big swings and small ones like basically worked out and

2027
01:31:30,239 --> 01:31:33,840
the like the Fontechio level transactions certainly didn't hurt them.

2028
01:31:34,159 --> 01:31:37,960
So yeah, just a really stellar offseason for them in hindsight.

2029
01:31:38,359 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 1: My spoiler alert is I don't mind their off season

2030
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:42,600
this summer as much as a lot of other people

2031
01:31:42,640 --> 01:31:44,399
seem to do. I think they rebounded nicely in the

2032
01:31:44,439 --> 01:31:49,039
face of some drama. But we move on to the

2033
01:31:49,239 --> 01:31:54,920
Indiana Pacers. They grant drafted Tristan Newton at number forty nine,

2034
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:58,159
drafted Enrique Freeman at number fifty, traded Wan Nunia has

2035
01:31:58,199 --> 01:32:00,239
number thirty six, and cash for Johnny Furfey who was

2036
01:32:00,319 --> 01:32:04,199
number thirty five. Paid Pascal Siakam four years, one hundred

2037
01:32:04,199 --> 01:32:06,159
and eighty nine point nine million dollars. That was the

2038
01:32:06,199 --> 01:32:08,640
max gave Obi top in four years fifty eight million.

2039
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:11,279
We didn't love that deal. Andrew Demhark got a three year,

2040
01:32:11,319 --> 01:32:15,239
fifty eight point seven million dollar extension James Wiseman two years,

2041
01:32:15,319 --> 01:32:17,720
four point eight million. Only a half million was guaranteed.

2042
01:32:17,760 --> 01:32:19,199
They had a team option in the second year, James

2043
01:32:19,239 --> 01:32:21,720
Johnson one year at the minimum. Quinton Jackson was on

2044
01:32:22,119 --> 01:32:25,960
a two way. We were not fans of the Pacers offseason.

2045
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:28,239
We actually the thing we had the least problem with

2046
01:32:28,319 --> 01:32:30,920
and even supported while everybody else didn't necessarily seem to

2047
01:32:30,920 --> 01:32:34,199
love it, was the Siakam Max. We also did not

2048
01:32:34,479 --> 01:32:37,880
grade the TJ. McConnell extension four years forty five. Only

2049
01:32:37,920 --> 01:32:40,479
part of that is guaranteed, but we both gave them

2050
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:44,000
across the board d pluses. We were pretty and can

2051
01:32:44,039 --> 01:32:46,039
you guess I did listen back? Can you guess what

2052
01:32:46,079 --> 01:32:47,479
our biggest gripe was?

2053
01:32:48,079 --> 01:32:51,560
Speaker 2: I gotta believe mine was topping. I gotta believe I

2054
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,920
just hated that and turned out I think I'm pretty

2055
01:32:55,079 --> 01:32:57,800
clearly wrong about about him, or at least it looked

2056
01:32:57,840 --> 01:33:00,279
that way last year. So was that it was it

2057
01:33:00,319 --> 01:33:00,960
topping for me?

2058
01:33:01,079 --> 01:33:03,600
Speaker 1: I can't remember, yes, And then well, it was the

2059
01:33:03,600 --> 01:33:05,319
two things we talked about were the top and deal.

2060
01:33:05,720 --> 01:33:08,159
And then it was kind of the Orlando Magic argument

2061
01:33:08,279 --> 01:33:11,600
of you had all this evidence of what you needed

2062
01:33:11,640 --> 01:33:14,680
most and proceeded to go out and not get that,

2063
01:33:14,720 --> 01:33:17,359
and we didn't call their playoff run a fluke that

2064
01:33:17,680 --> 01:33:20,399
at that time, but it was you clearly needed another

2065
01:33:20,640 --> 01:33:24,319
combo wing type here, and you had the flexibility again

2066
01:33:24,399 --> 01:33:27,479
to go do things, and you did absolutely nothing. And

2067
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:30,159
the Obi top and deal is it does look better

2068
01:33:30,199 --> 01:33:33,119
in hindsight because he had, like he was really impactful

2069
01:33:33,159 --> 01:33:35,560
for them at points this seasons, including during the NBA Finals.

2070
01:33:35,720 --> 01:33:39,079
But it's also just that's still not a contract that

2071
01:33:39,840 --> 01:33:41,920
teams are going to be beating down the door to

2072
01:33:41,960 --> 01:33:43,960
take on, I don't think. And the other thing too,

2073
01:33:44,079 --> 01:33:48,039
is I had criticized John Hollinger for saying this at

2074
01:33:48,039 --> 01:33:51,000
the time, and it turns out I was wrong the

2075
01:33:51,039 --> 01:33:53,840
Andrew Nemhart extension. Doing that a year before you had

2076
01:33:53,840 --> 01:33:58,560
to probably ended up costing you. Miles Turner, Okay, let's

2077
01:33:58,640 --> 01:34:02,199
let's unpack that. Because I've heard him, I'm aware that that's.

2078
01:34:02,000 --> 01:34:05,760
Speaker 2: His take to not his take like that's that like

2079
01:34:06,119 --> 01:34:08,279
makes it seem like it's not factually true that like

2080
01:34:08,359 --> 01:34:11,039
the money worked out the way it did, But isn't

2081
01:34:11,760 --> 01:34:14,600
isn't the counter that if you had not signed them

2082
01:34:14,640 --> 01:34:17,279
hard to that deal last year, you would have had

2083
01:34:17,279 --> 01:34:20,000
to pay him much more now, But I guess that

2084
01:34:20,039 --> 01:34:21,680
doesn't matter in terms of like you'd have.

2085
01:34:22,640 --> 01:34:25,560
Speaker 1: Though until twenty twenty seven, twenty twenty or excuse me,

2086
01:34:25,600 --> 01:34:27,720
twenty six twenty seven, because it was he had the

2087
01:34:27,800 --> 01:34:31,279
two years at the lower volume left on his deal, right,

2088
01:34:31,319 --> 01:34:34,800
So I'm assuming that's his argument. But you could also

2089
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,720
then say, well, Tyr's Haliburton's injured. What does it matter.

2090
01:34:38,359 --> 01:34:41,880
I've seen the numbers with Miles Turner with without Tyrus

2091
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:44,680
Haliburt and offensively the shooting splits. I get it, bad

2092
01:34:44,720 --> 01:34:49,159
asset management, but it's something to think about. I again,

2093
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:52,119
I'm I think Andrew Nemhart on I guess it comes

2094
01:34:52,159 --> 01:34:55,239
down to would you rather have Miles Turner still here

2095
01:34:55,800 --> 01:34:57,880
or Andrew Nemhart on this deal versus what you think

2096
01:34:57,880 --> 01:34:59,680
it would have cost to retain him if you didn't

2097
01:34:59,680 --> 01:35:00,880
have him on this contract?

2098
01:35:02,000 --> 01:35:04,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess it's hard to answer that without knowing

2099
01:35:04,279 --> 01:35:08,239
what Nemhard would get right, Like I mean, is it

2100
01:35:08,279 --> 01:35:12,039
does Nemhard get well again because we're negotiating this summer, right,

2101
01:35:12,159 --> 01:35:14,520
and it's not like, well, no, because we're still talking

2102
01:35:14,520 --> 01:35:16,000
about an extension. It's not like he would have been

2103
01:35:16,000 --> 01:35:19,600
an unrestricted free agent, and the argument of of like, well,

2104
01:35:19,640 --> 01:35:21,680
nobody has any money, so you can lowball him, Like,

2105
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:23,239
that's not the situation it would have been.

2106
01:35:23,199 --> 01:35:25,680
Speaker 1: Right, No, it wouldn't have been.

2107
01:35:26,159 --> 01:35:29,720
Speaker 2: So yeah, I guess that's compelling. I kind of dismissed

2108
01:35:29,720 --> 01:35:32,279
that idea as like, well, I just I think Nemhard's

2109
01:35:32,319 --> 01:35:34,359
on a great deal. I like, you just do that

2110
01:35:34,479 --> 01:35:37,680
because he's a really good player being paid under market.

2111
01:35:37,960 --> 01:35:40,119
But I guess if the trickle down is you lose Turner,

2112
01:35:40,159 --> 01:35:42,600
although they didn't have to lose Turner, right like they

2113
01:35:42,600 --> 01:35:45,600
could have. That's that's the that's the hang up is that.

2114
01:35:45,560 --> 01:35:48,359
Speaker 1: They've I think what I just struggle with is there's

2115
01:35:48,399 --> 01:35:50,680
clearly always been just I don't even know if it's

2116
01:35:50,680 --> 01:35:53,600
a disconnect, but they have never valued him as much

2117
01:35:53,600 --> 01:35:55,199
as I feel like people think that they need to

2118
01:35:55,279 --> 01:35:57,960
value him. And I still look at God. Yes, you

2119
01:35:57,960 --> 01:35:59,800
could cite the shooting splits. You could say he played

2120
01:35:59,800 --> 01:36:02,720
poorly in the finals, okay, like you needed to get

2121
01:36:02,760 --> 01:36:04,399
to a point to be in the finals. He was

2122
01:36:04,399 --> 01:36:07,119
a huge part of that. But players who do what

2123
01:36:07,199 --> 01:36:10,279
he does are so rare. There's like four of them

2124
01:36:10,960 --> 01:36:13,039
like that, right, And I've just seen too I like

2125
01:36:13,119 --> 01:36:14,920
Jay Huff, but I've just seen too much of just like, oh,

2126
01:36:14,960 --> 01:36:16,920
they might not even feel it, Like Jay Huff is there,

2127
01:36:17,560 --> 01:36:20,880
and I'm just like, no, I don't. Maybe maybe we'll

2128
01:36:20,920 --> 01:36:23,039
be doing this this time when we do their offseason

2129
01:36:23,079 --> 01:36:24,880
grades for this year, we're gonna be coming back next year.

2130
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:26,960
Like wow, like Miles Turner at the worst season of

2131
01:36:26,960 --> 01:36:27,760
his career.

2132
01:36:27,520 --> 01:36:30,199
Speaker 2: But who knew Obie Toping could play center, right?

2133
01:36:30,600 --> 01:36:32,359
Speaker 1: Obie Topping all defense? My god?

2134
01:36:34,039 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean so yeah, Turners, I guess except for

2135
01:36:38,479 --> 01:36:41,800
how Nimhar does relate to Turner, the Turner thing isn't

2136
01:36:41,840 --> 01:36:45,199
really relevant till last summer. I was just wrong about Topping,

2137
01:36:45,399 --> 01:36:47,880
I think, and so I have to boom bump them

2138
01:36:47,880 --> 01:36:49,479
from a D plus to a C plus. You went

2139
01:36:49,520 --> 01:36:51,960
to a C similar logic. I assume, like just the

2140
01:36:51,960 --> 01:36:56,000
things we disliked we were just not right about. I mean,

2141
01:36:56,520 --> 01:36:58,399
the part of it is like, Okay, I didn't know

2142
01:36:58,479 --> 01:37:01,319
the Pacers were going to reinvent how offensive basketball worked,

2143
01:37:01,520 --> 01:37:05,039
so like, I sorry, but but like I don't know,

2144
01:37:05,079 --> 01:37:07,239
I don't know how you factor that in if you

2145
01:37:07,279 --> 01:37:08,119
do it all well.

2146
01:37:08,119 --> 01:37:10,239
Speaker 1: It's also they kind of did they came off this

2147
01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:12,680
like trip deep into the playoffs and we're like, oh,

2148
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:15,000
you need to We didn't tell them to do something reckless,

2149
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:16,279
but it was like you needed to do more to

2150
01:37:16,279 --> 01:37:18,279
make sure you got back to that point. And it

2151
01:37:18,319 --> 01:37:21,680
looked like we were right basically through what Thanksgiving or

2152
01:37:21,720 --> 01:37:24,640
whatever it was. But then Andrew Nemhart comes back and

2153
01:37:24,680 --> 01:37:27,039
they're like, these guys are just humming at both ends

2154
01:37:27,039 --> 01:37:30,199
of the floor. So I we were clearly wrong about

2155
01:37:30,199 --> 01:37:32,159
our assessment of them as a team. But I don't

2156
01:37:32,199 --> 01:37:34,399
know how you look back at last offseason and think it.

2157
01:37:34,560 --> 01:37:36,520
I guess it's just, oh, we kept Andrew dem Harden,

2158
01:37:36,760 --> 01:37:38,760
Pascal Siakam and that ends up being a huge deal

2159
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:40,800
on the Obi Top and contract looks better than expected.

2160
01:37:40,920 --> 01:37:43,920
I don't think you got you didn't get a steal

2161
01:37:44,159 --> 01:37:46,239
on it like Pascalk got the Max. I think that's

2162
01:37:46,239 --> 01:37:47,720
people thought it was a bad deal. I think it's

2163
01:37:47,720 --> 01:37:50,199
a fine deal. But Obi Top is not a steal.

2164
01:37:50,800 --> 01:37:51,760
Speaker 2: No, No, that's true.

2165
01:37:51,760 --> 01:37:52,119
Speaker 1: Andrew.

2166
01:37:54,720 --> 01:37:57,840
Speaker 2: I would I would not have liked the McConnell deal

2167
01:37:57,960 --> 01:37:59,960
had we graded it last year. I would have been like, oh,

2168
01:38:00,079 --> 01:38:01,880
what do you need him for? You have nim hard

2169
01:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,520
and Haliburton like that. It's not that, it's just like,

2170
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:08,800
why are you investing eight figures in a third or

2171
01:38:08,840 --> 01:38:10,159
fourth guard? That makes no sense?

2172
01:38:10,159 --> 01:38:12,640
Speaker 1: And I would he's the best ISO score of all time.

2173
01:38:12,760 --> 01:38:14,119
Speaker 2: I would have been wrong about that too.

2174
01:38:15,079 --> 01:38:17,840
Speaker 1: Are you ready to take us through the Milwaukee Bucks?

2175
01:38:18,159 --> 01:38:20,600
Speaker 2: Absolutely? They drafted A. J. Johnson at number twenty three.

2176
01:38:20,640 --> 01:38:24,000
I remember hating that they drafted Tyler Smith at thirty three,

2177
01:38:24,159 --> 01:38:27,279
got Delawn Right, Torrian Prince, and Gary Trent Junior all

2178
01:38:27,319 --> 01:38:30,000
for minimums. They signed Stanley and Moody to a two

2179
01:38:30,039 --> 01:38:33,560
way and onse Ish Pasechniks to a two way as well.

2180
01:38:33,600 --> 01:38:38,560
So relatively uneventful, and yet we loved it. It's just

2181
01:38:38,840 --> 01:38:40,439
this is a classic case of we just love the

2182
01:38:40,439 --> 01:38:43,920
minimums basically right, well, you had them, they didn't They

2183
01:38:43,920 --> 01:38:44,960
couldn't do anything.

2184
01:38:45,119 --> 01:38:46,880
Speaker 1: Right, and it was so, oh, do you want a

2185
01:38:46,920 --> 01:38:48,920
short circuit? Do we want to see them trade like

2186
01:38:49,000 --> 01:38:51,159
anything to do something ridiculous. No, we didn't want to

2187
01:38:51,159 --> 01:38:53,520
see them do that. So it was oh, they they

2188
01:38:53,560 --> 01:38:56,239
came in with no flexibility, no money to spend, and

2189
01:38:56,279 --> 01:38:58,920
they left with Prince and Gary Trent Junior were the

2190
01:38:59,039 --> 01:39:00,880
names that we harped on them most. You got those

2191
01:39:00,880 --> 01:39:03,079
guys at the minimum and by the way, those deals

2192
01:39:03,079 --> 01:39:05,560
look better now because we'll see if it cost them

2193
01:39:05,560 --> 01:39:07,000
when they have their early bird rights. But you were

2194
01:39:07,000 --> 01:39:09,479
able to convince them to stay, which I think is

2195
01:39:09,479 --> 01:39:12,279
a pretty big deal without having a ton of flexibility.

2196
01:39:12,640 --> 01:39:16,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we we had them at Oh, you had

2197
01:39:16,039 --> 01:39:17,279
him at a B plus. I had him at an

2198
01:39:17,319 --> 01:39:19,800
A minus. We just love those minimums. You stated a

2199
01:39:19,840 --> 01:39:23,640
B plus. I dropped to a B plus just because

2200
01:39:23,720 --> 01:39:27,760
I don't know. Ultimately, I don't have a great reason.

2201
01:39:28,039 --> 01:39:29,760
Feels like A is just too high when the only

2202
01:39:29,800 --> 01:39:31,079
thing they did was signed minimums.

2203
01:39:31,640 --> 01:39:33,600
Speaker 1: Well, the other thing, too, is just I think you

2204
01:39:33,600 --> 01:39:35,319
could look back and kind of say where there are

2205
01:39:35,319 --> 01:39:38,960
other opportunities for them in the draft to make other

2206
01:39:39,039 --> 01:39:42,520
than Like Tyler Smith at Johnson.

2207
01:39:42,159 --> 01:39:43,399
Speaker 2: It was not even on the team anymore.

2208
01:39:43,600 --> 01:39:46,920
Speaker 1: You traded him was part of the dump for Walton

2209
01:39:47,039 --> 01:39:50,079
Wilton dump. They traded Chris Middleton to get Kyle Kuzma.

2210
01:39:50,600 --> 01:39:53,520
Is there anyone that, like, man, imagine Aj Mitchell instead

2211
01:39:53,520 --> 01:39:55,479
of Tyler Smith on this Like it's when you get

2212
01:39:55,479 --> 01:39:57,319
to the second round, it's kind of splitting hairs. I

2213
01:39:57,439 --> 01:39:59,239
wasn't when you even look at the first round and

2214
01:39:59,279 --> 01:40:01,920
A J. Johnson to begin with, and it's not that

2215
01:40:02,319 --> 01:40:04,840
like there's been a few players drafted after him that

2216
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:08,239
were better, but Keishawn George, like people knew about him

2217
01:40:08,279 --> 01:40:11,000
at the time, Tarren Shannon Junior by an invent Ryan

2218
01:40:11,079 --> 01:40:12,880
Dunn would have been a pretty good pick for them,

2219
01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,119
So you could if you wanted to demerit them for that,

2220
01:40:15,279 --> 01:40:17,800
But I just have we have so little information on

2221
01:40:17,840 --> 01:40:20,359
AJ Johnson and even if he ends up being good,

2222
01:40:20,760 --> 01:40:22,520
that move is not part of it. Like them getting

2223
01:40:22,600 --> 01:40:24,720
rid of him isn't part of their offseason grade. That'd

2224
01:40:24,760 --> 01:40:28,520
be part of their trade deadline happening. It is great. Yeah,

2225
01:40:28,880 --> 01:40:31,960
so yeah, fine offseason for the Bucks. This offseason is

2226
01:40:31,960 --> 01:40:35,119
gonna be way more interesting to grade grants. Do you

2227
01:40:35,119 --> 01:40:36,079
have anything else to add?

2228
01:40:36,560 --> 01:40:39,239
Speaker 2: Did we do it? Oh? Man, we'd good job by us.

2229
01:40:39,680 --> 01:40:42,000
Uh no, I don't have anything else to add. I think, uh,

2230
01:40:42,079 --> 01:40:45,920
let's see, well maybe by way of recap now that

2231
01:40:45,920 --> 01:40:48,520
would be too complicated. But who's the the biggest swing

2232
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:51,159
obviously was the sixers. We went from the A range

2233
01:40:51,159 --> 01:40:54,119
to the F range, trying to see if anybody else

2234
01:40:54,159 --> 01:40:55,279
really made huge jumps.

2235
01:40:55,279 --> 01:40:57,119
Speaker 1: I guess the Hawks. I think for me might have

2236
01:40:57,159 --> 01:40:59,680
had the biggest upswing. I would to see minus to

2237
01:40:59,720 --> 01:41:00,079
an A.

2238
01:41:00,880 --> 01:41:03,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I bump them up quite a bit too. I

2239
01:41:03,760 --> 01:41:06,199
don't know. I think you feel like we learned anything.

2240
01:41:06,199 --> 01:41:07,920
What are your takeaways? What are you going to take

2241
01:41:07,960 --> 01:41:12,119
into your next set of off season grades from this process?

2242
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:13,399
Speaker 1: Absolutely nothing.

2243
01:41:14,119 --> 01:41:16,039
Speaker 2: We don't learn here. We're not here to learn. It's

2244
01:41:16,039 --> 01:41:19,439
like that was the pitch from A. Wasn't that the

2245
01:41:19,439 --> 01:41:22,399
the way Larry David explained, like how Seinfeld the show

2246
01:41:22,479 --> 01:41:24,359
was going to work like nobody's ever allowed to learn

2247
01:41:24,399 --> 01:41:25,920
anything from what they do wrong.

2248
01:41:26,000 --> 01:41:29,079
Speaker 1: That's why it's good. If we've accomplished you learning absolutely nothing.

2249
01:41:29,079 --> 01:41:29,640
We've done our.

2250
01:41:29,640 --> 01:41:32,199
Speaker 2: Jobs we did hope, hope you learned nothing. Hope you

2251
01:41:32,199 --> 01:41:34,520
still listen though, And if you do a rate review

2252
01:41:34,560 --> 01:41:36,520
and subscribe, tell your friends, tell your enemies. If you're

2253
01:41:36,520 --> 01:41:39,680
watching this on YouTube, believe us a comment there. If

2254
01:41:39,720 --> 01:41:41,439
you watch this live, thanks, We're going to try a

2255
01:41:41,479 --> 01:41:42,960
few more of these and just kind of see how

2256
01:41:43,000 --> 01:41:45,600
they go. What else do I need to say? Dan,

2257
01:41:45,640 --> 01:41:47,079
it's been two weeks since I the West.

2258
01:41:47,119 --> 01:41:49,319
Speaker 1: We'll have the West, I think same time next week.

2259
01:41:49,319 --> 01:41:52,640
We're planning two thirty Pacific five thirty on Friday PM

2260
01:41:52,800 --> 01:41:55,680
Eastern time, sept Oh my god, that was next Friday,

2261
01:41:55,920 --> 01:41:59,000
five thirty pm Eastern time, two thirty pm Pacific time.

2262
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:01,920
We will do the West regrades. And there's a few

2263
01:42:02,119 --> 01:42:04,960
there's a there's a couple of interesting teams that talk

2264
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:05,439
about there.

2265
01:42:06,000 --> 01:42:08,000
Speaker 2: We might have to we used this for other things.

2266
01:42:08,079 --> 01:42:09,920
We might have to title that one like we're wrong

2267
01:42:09,960 --> 01:42:11,520
and we're sorry for a couple of.

2268
01:42:11,520 --> 01:42:14,239
Speaker 1: Vis I'm not I'm not sorry about this at all, but.

2269
01:42:14,479 --> 01:42:18,199
Speaker 2: Well, we're just wrong. That's right, no learning, no apologies.

2270
01:42:18,239 --> 01:42:20,560
Maybe that should be any tag like to the show.

2271
01:42:21,000 --> 01:42:21,880
Thanks again, everybody.

2272
01:42:22,119 --> 01:42:23,600
Speaker 1: Uh, I think that's all

2273
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:29,359
Speaker 2: Shouts fringe Latino apologies Jared I