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Speaker 1: The paranormal UFOs, Monsters Mysteries. As you're listening to Talking

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Weird and now from a Kevin Deep in the northwards,

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your host, Doctor Dean.

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Speaker 2: Bertram, Greetings of my fellow weirdos and weirdo's. Welcome to

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Talking Weird on the Untold Radio Network. As always, I'm

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delighted that you've decided to spend the next hour or

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so of your night with me. That is, if you're

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watching me live somewhere in my same time zone I suppose,

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or perhaps you're watching or listening to it somewhere else

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around this wonderful planet. I'm of course, in the northwoods

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of Wisconsin, and it is pouring down with rain to

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night and thunder and lightning, and the house shook before,

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so hopefully some you know, I don't know, bolt from

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above won't all of a sudden kill this show midway through,

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because that would be very upsetting. Because I'm so excited

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about this episode tonight. We're going to get there in

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a minute. But again, thank you for joining me wherever

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you are in the world and wherever you are watching

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and listening to this, whether it's Facebook or ex or

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YouTube or maybe on one of the many podcast platforms

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that the audio only version drops on the next day

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with all the other wonderful shows which are part of

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the Untold Radio network. Before I bring on my guest,

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I have a little self spricking to do. For those

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of you who have been following me on this show

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for some time now, know that I've been long in

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the process of making a feature film called The Man

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Who Invented Flying Sources, which is getting closer and closer

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being Donefully, we will shoot that out this summer. But

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a short version of that film, or rather a standalone

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segment from that film, just called The Shaver Mystery, which

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I also talk about all the time. It's ha an

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incredible run on the festival circus. I think two years

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next month that's been screening at festivals for We have

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a couple of screenings coming up if you have not

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had a chance of seeing it yet, and most of

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them alive in person screenings, but this is one of

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the few which is part of a film festival which

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also has an online component, which means you don't have

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to go all the way to Vienna, where I believe

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this festival is based. You can also watch it online

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and that's the hermetic International Film Festival where The Shaver

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Mystery is playing on what they call a Cinema D.

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There's an ABC and D. They're just different parts of

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the website where you can go and watch the different

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short films. That image there is actually part of the

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cover of an Amazing Stories and I can hear thunder

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and lightning belting a well, I can hear the thunder.

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I'm assuming there's lightning as we're belting around me right now.

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But if you want to go and watch that film

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as of tomorrow, I believe it's from twenty fourth to

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the thirtieth again, that's the Hermitic International Film Festival April

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twenty four to thirty. You can get tickets and watch

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it online by going to Holy Mountain Gallery dot com.

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That's Holy Mountain Gallery dot com and you can buy

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your tickets. So you actually you can just go through

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to screen D first if you only want to watch

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The Shaver Mystery and the other films playing in that section,

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and you can get tickets for that or check out

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any of the many other absolutely fantastic looking sections. The

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next screening after that of the film is going to

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be not this coming weekend, but the following It will

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be on May second at the Contact Modalities Expo. That

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expo runs in Delevan, Wisconsin, and from May one to third,

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not only will you be able to watch my film,

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they're live. I'm going to be there introducing it, and

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then I'm going to do my presentation on what I

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call the Shaver Mystery, Part two, which is about where

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the mystery kind of continued after it fell out of

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very popular side, I suppose, when it was the main

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stories in the Amazing Stories pulp fiction magazine for probably

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the better part of four years. After that, it's drifted

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away from the public consciousness, but the mystery continued and

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changed into very strange metamor I guess metamorphosed into very

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very strange shapes. If you want to go to the

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Contact Modalities Expo, you can get tickets by going to

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Contactmodalitiesexpo dot com and Expo is spelt just with an

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X no E at the beginning of it, so it's

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Contact Modalities xpo dot com. And I believe when you

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go to buy tickets, if you enter my name, my

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first name, Dean, that's da N into the discount code box,

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you'll get discount tickets to go to whether you're just

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coming to see my film or whatever else you're going

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to can get passes for I think each day, or

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you can get passes for the whole event. I'll be

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there for that event and it's going to be fantastic.

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My wonderful girlfriend, Samanth who's also on the film, will

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be there, so that's going to be a heck of

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a time. Come up and say hello to me if

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you're a listener, because I'd love to hang out with you. Anyway.

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Enough about me, Now about our amazing guest. He's a

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Saddlebourne and raised filmmaker and artist who's made it his

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mission to revive the stories of folks with great legacy.

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He's created a short film exploring the early story of

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a Northwest paranormal figure, Fred Chrisman, who is also a

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big part of the whole shave at Mystery and maybe

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we'll touch on that a little tonight, and is now

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halfway through a follow up covering the Maury Island Incident.

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He's also the lead artist on an international horror comic,

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The Stuttguard Shocker, blending the Twilight Zone, Twin Peaks and

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vintage Tales from the Crypt, and he's currently releasing an

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unfinished film using the original drawings and voice recordings of

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Phil Hartman, titled Phil Hartman's Flat TV, which looks amazing

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and I can't wait to see it. So I'm delighted

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to welcome back to Talking Weird my very good friend,

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the immensely talented Brian Shicley. Greetings, Brian, Hey buddy, good

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to see mate.

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Speaker 3: We need to start making a film called The Other

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Guy who Invented Flying Saucers. I'm gonna release it right

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alongside yours, so the posters are right next to each other.

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Speaker 2: Fantastic that we could do a double bill.

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Speaker 3: We remember, like Deadpool was doing those fake posters. I

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could just ape off your thing and then I could

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have Crispin copying the poses from the cover.

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Speaker 2: I did it too. You always try to convince me

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too to do it. It's a great idea to do

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a shave of Palmer buddy movie, like a docu drama

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or a docu comedy drama.

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Speaker 3: Like like just an off the Beaten Path, just two

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buddies and it would be a road trip. I don't know,

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why don't they end up in Wisconsin together at the end.

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Speaker 2: Well, they end up in Wisconsin. But then it's a

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long story. Shaver of flees Wisconsin for one very for

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scandalous reason, and he ends up in the summit, and

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then their friendship eventually kind of falls apart by the

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very end, and that's another long story. But you could

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do there would be a story at the beginning. I

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suppose in some stage of that when they're traveling together.

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Speaker 3: It could be like that. There is one of the

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Batman movies where Robin becomes corrupted, and it ends with

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the first day Robin's on board and he goes, this

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is great. I can't wait to be your new best friend.

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And you know that'll be the tear jerker you'll have

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Shaver and Palmer shake hands.

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Speaker 2: It's just, you know what, it's an exciting story, their

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life story, but it's also incredibly sad and tragic in

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so many parts. As you will know. I mean, you

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probably are one of the few people who I can

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talk Shave a Palmer with. You know, our own language,

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cos and there's some coherence. Our audience are probably now going, well,

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they've suffered me talking about this long enough that they

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probably probably get that we have we have a listener.

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Doug at D four five four three, saying, how's it going.

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I'm about to listen driving home in torrential rain. Wish

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me luck. Well, it's torrential rain here as well, Doug,

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so I do definitely wish you luck. There's Samantha and

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a chat. Hey baby, it's good to see you there.

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Speaker 3: It's like the first day of summer over here.

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Speaker 2: It was warm here.

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Speaker 3: I think.

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Speaker 2: I think what happens is when the weather changes in Wisconsin. Yeah,

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what happens is that that big shock of the extreme

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warm temperature. I don't know, there's some inversion of what

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then we seem to get whenever it gets really warm

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at the beginning of the season, we get the very

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serious storms. We had a tornado warning last week. My

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daughter and I were in the basement, like you know,

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my phone started to do one of those emergency warnings.

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It was like go to the basement now, like literally,

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like I think they had a number of warnings, and

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we went down there after maybe the second because we

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had to get stuff together. But the first warning was

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the most severe. It was like people like outside, animals

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and people are likely to be killed somewhere, really extreme.

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We didn't get the tornado, but I guess they were

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just you know, prepping us for it. So we went

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down to the basement for you know, I suppose an

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hour or so, and then it was all or clear. Ah,

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Horrace Smith, because he knows what we're about to start

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to talk about. That's a good segue for us to

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get to where we want to go. Horrace Smith, of course,

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is a good friend of the show. He's also Professor

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emeritus of Astronomy and Physics at Michigan State University and

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a good friend of mine. And he says, wasn't a

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storm underway when the source of landed in the movie

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Invaders from Mars Stay Safe. I believe that's absolutely correct,

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and we will get to Invaders from Mars at some stage.

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Of course. I know Horace is talking about the first one,

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not the Toby Hooper remake. They're both great, but that

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first one I think is symbolic in many ways of

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American Cold War fears as well as fears of you know,

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the whole source of flap that was happening the moment,

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and Doug made it home. I'm very glad to hear that.

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Speaker 3: Doug, you would think this is going to be all

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me talking about Saucer movies. But this is actually a

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covert plan for me to hear about Saucer movies from that.

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No one at the library was going to tell me about.

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Speaker 2: Well that maybe we should invite the audience as well.

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If at any time there's a Saucer movie you want

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to throw out there, like.

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Speaker 3: Jump, I happen to watch it. I have to watch

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it because I The only thing that I did is

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I the preliminary thought was movies that are quote unquote

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based on are inspired by a true story. So my

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diet was Fire in the Sky. Close Encounters are sort

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of a composite, but Fire in the Sky and Communion

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were the two big ones.

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Speaker 2: They're both fantastic movies. I think Communion probably captures the

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essence of Whitley Streebi's tale better than the Fire in

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the Sky movie captures the essence of Travis Walton's so

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we get we can get into that. I do think

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it's interesting that you said you focus mainly on those

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films which seem to be based I guess more in

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UFO fact or UFO law or UFO cases, because I

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think when we first got Saorcer movies in America, which

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is in the early nineteen fifties. I think an argument

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can be made both ways that the Saurcer movies were

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being influenced by Sourcer flaps, and the source of flaps

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were at the same time being influenced by the Saucer movies.

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So it's not even really a case of what came first,

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the chicken or the egg. I think it's a case

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of the imaginal in the more esoteric sense, in phenomenological

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you know, actual apparitions of things in the skies. And

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there's also then the imagination working with you know, authors

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and filmmakers and writers in Hollywood. They're both trying to

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come they're both trying to come to grips with the

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same kind of things. So for example, and I know

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i'll throw it back to you, but I think this

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is as great a place to start this conversation as Anie.

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In the summer of nineteen fifty two, I think was

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the summer there was a very well known source of

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flap over Washington, d C. It was such big news

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that pushed the Democratic National Convention that was happening at

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the same time off the front pages. This became like

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national news, and people like airline pilots, radar, you know,

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control traffic, airline you know, aircraft traffic operator types, the

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civilians on the ground, policemen on the ground, people were

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seeing glowing phenomena above the nation's capital. And the assumption

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was led by the press, and certainly because we were

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already into the source of flat by about you know,

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five years by then, and that this was flying sources

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buzzing the nation's capital. Now, of course, all people were

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really seeing was strange lights in the sky. But the

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year before that, Americans had witnessed a UFO land in Washington,

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d C. They'd witnessed an alien come out of it.

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They'd witnessed the military respond. They'd seen a bright light

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in the sky and the distance come closer and closer,

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and all of a sudden it was a disc shaped craft.

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And then they saw it land on the Washington Mall

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and open up, and they saw its handsome space brother

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emerged with a warning and a message for mankind. That,

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of course, was the film The Day the Earth Stood Still.

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But that had set the tone in America to expect

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almost a potential UFO landing in Washington, DC, and also

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more importantly taught Americans visually that a light in the

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sky in the distance hovering over Washington, DC. It wasn't

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just a light when it came close. It was a

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flying saucer. So multiple historians, including myself, have made the

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point that it's difficult to talk about that flap of

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fifty two, which is one of the most important UFI

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O flaps in the first you know, decade of flying sources,

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maybe the first two decades, without referencing the day the

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stud still so there's almost a case of the phenomenon,

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or at least people's perceptions and interpretation of the phenomenon,

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borrowing from Hollywood, which had already borrowed from the stories

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that UFOs were, you know, in American sky. So see,

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they're interconnected. I think that's a great place to start

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the conversation.

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Speaker 3: I got a word for you that only you and

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I are going to know. Ready, roll ads.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, we both know. It'd be funny if anyone,

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if anybody knows what to roll at is throw it

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into the chat, like we'll give the We'll give the

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chat thirty seconds in case anybody everyone.

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Speaker 3: Up for it. So, Okay, Throughout the history of UFO,

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we've always had this concept that there were there was

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some vehicle in the air I mean before blimps and balloons.

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We you know, the sky ships was a term, and

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that was a term while they were testing out what

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eventually became hot air balloons. There's reports of sky ships

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that you can easily say are UFOs that may have

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just been very early distributions of what hot air balloons

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to ultimately become. And throughout history all the way down

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to like War of the World with H. G. Wells,

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the concept of how do you move from planet to planet?

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It started off his version was bullets. You would shoot

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a giant bullet from one planet to another, and you know,

278
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you had a metal craft that the alien you know,

279
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the other worldly beings land in and then they come out.

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And I mean, when was when was the original War

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of the World's When was that written?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 2: I mean as far as the the Awson Wales broadcast

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was thirty eight the HG. Ironically, it's funny that you

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mentioned the airships because I believe Auson Wells', not Awson HG. Whales.

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War of the World's the book, the novel, the novel,

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the novelett It's a fairly small book. I believe that

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came out in eighteen ninety seven, the same time the

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Great airship Flap went across America. Yeah, so again people

290
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dealing with you know, both of the both Wells and

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the American public were perhaps cognizant that we were on

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the we were on the edge of you know, heavier

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than air travel, maybe from outer space in the wells

294
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of version, or maybe from you know, crazed inventors, which

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was often the case in some of the stories that

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people circulated in the American press at the time. But yeah,

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it's interesting. There's a total correlation.

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Speaker 3: There's there's this beautiful give and take where we've always

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had a concept and for instance, and we'll get to

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rollouts in a second.

301
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Speaker 2: No one's jumped in with the roll up, by the way,

302
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so whenever you want to go, feel free.

303
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Speaker 3: Kenneth Arnald sees the very the very first major UFO sighting.

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There had been examples of FOO fighters throughout history. There

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had been other pilots, but Kenneth Arnald's the one who

306
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claimed to see nine flying objects. He claimed they were

307
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kind as chevron shaped more than they were UFOs. And

308
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I just assume he was talked to by the journalist

309
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so much. What does it fly like? Oh? It flies

310
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like a saucer. Okay, and the headline flying Saucers took

311
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over and suddenly the mass consciousness everyone saw saucer shaped things.

312
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And Fred Chrisman, who's best friend and compatriot Harold Dahl,

313
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who was the subject of the Moray Island incident, they saw,

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well Doll saw six discs, but they were donut shaped.

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They were had a hole in the middle. And when

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all this came to be, and Ray Palmer, who was

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head of Amazing Stories and then Fate Magazine. Later he

318
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when they interviewed him, they're like, what do you think,

319
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and he goes, I think Shaver beat them all to

320
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it with rolats because in the Shaver Mystery they had

321
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talked about hovering basically hover cars if you look at

322
00:17:56,319 --> 00:17:58,599
the covers, if that's how you want to interpret what

323
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,440
Shaver was talking about, were called rollats at the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's and it does seem that. And I went

325
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:11,880
rund about this too long, because I'm sure everybody who

326
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watches or listens to this show regularly heard me rant

327
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about it often enough. But it seems well, perhaps, I mean,

328
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I want to say that Shaver and Palmer perhaps were

329
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responsible for much of the interpretations that followed. But certainly

330
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again there's a correlation because in the years in the

331
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lead up to Arnold's sighting, the pages of Amazing Stories,

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which was a science fiction magazine, remember America's leading science

333
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fiction pulp magazine, but still a science fiction pulp had

334
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had gradually and then almost completely been over to overtaken

335
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at least the majority of its pages by Shaver mystery

336
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stories and which were meant to be factual. Oh I

337
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love that boy, that puppet Shaver mystery stories that were

338
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meant to be factual, and also just article on various

339
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forty and phenomenon including flying sources before we had the

340
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term flying sources. In fact, when Kenneth Arnold had that

341
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siding the Amazing Stories issue of June nineteen forty seven

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that was on the newsstands when Arnold had his famous

343
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sighting near Mount Rainier in Washington State, which is your

344
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part of the world, there was an article in that

345
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All Shaver issue, All Shaver Mystery issue of Amazing Stories,

346
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written by the great forty and Vincent Gaddis, and it

347
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was called Visitors from the Void, and it essentially was

348
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just looking at the history of strange things seen in

349
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the skies, and before we had the term flying sources,

350
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it was essentially saying these things were probably from elsewhere,

351
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much like Charles Ford had said beforehand. And so when

352
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Arnold had that siding, millions of Americans were already aware

353
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of the Shaver Mystery, which talked about space faring civilizations

354
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and underground essentially aliens and the like. Millions of Americans

355
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had seen covers of amazing stories, particularly the back covers,

356
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which often had like supposedly factual or at least people

357
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perhaps taking a guess at what was happening with the

358
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landings of strange craft in this planet and the potential

359
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of ancient civilizations here having had contact with ET's much

360
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like much like von Danikin would do twenty years later,

361
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as well as images that looked exactly like flying sauces

362
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would before we had the term flying sources. So America

363
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was already primed by amazing stories by the time of

364
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that Arnold, I think is the point I'm trying to make.

365
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Speaker 3: I thought the puppet was going to throw you off,

366
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and now I.

367
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Speaker 2: Show us that puppet again. What's his name?

368
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:49,960
Speaker 3: Um? The character is Graham Crackers. And the Phil Hartman

369
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thing I was trying to do different types of characters,

370
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and as he goes, he's advertising a product called nes cocaine.

371
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And the less I talk about that on a family

372
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at work, the better.

373
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Speaker 2: Let's just do a test. I'm going to add to

374
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the stage the trailer of yours, which I was going

375
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:11,279
to play, kid, what's well?

376
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Speaker 3: I think the kid's been whack?

377
00:21:13,319 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 2: Can Can we can we talk over this? Can I

378
00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:15,799
hear you? Brian?

379
00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,559
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, okay, So this is.

380
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,279
Speaker 2: This is the trailer for what you're talking about. Talk

381
00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:23,279
us through it because it was some unfamily friendly language

382
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in it.

383
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Speaker 3: It shows the soccer coach talking to the to the

384
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:31,680
priest over there and he's saying, I think the kid

385
00:21:31,759 --> 00:21:34,599
may be uh doing X y Z and he's like,

386
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,359
I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, you may

387
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,599
be whacking the old little hillie and you need to

388
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:44,119
be more specific. And then he goes, uh, I think

389
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:46,160
he's sneaking off in the other room, and the priest goes, oh,

390
00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:46,920
you mean he's.

391
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 2: This is your and this is your animation we were

392
00:21:52,759 --> 00:21:53,240
just watching.

393
00:21:53,759 --> 00:21:57,039
Speaker 3: Yeah. This is based on Phil Hartman's original drawings.

394
00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,559
Speaker 2: It looks my age.

395
00:21:59,599 --> 00:22:03,160
Speaker 3: When he turned thirty, he did a series of sketches

396
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:06,440
for We're not exactly sure what it's for, but he

397
00:22:06,559 --> 00:22:09,079
never ended up releasing it. He went on to do

398
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:13,480
Brable Old Toaster, Saturday Night Live, The Simpsons, uh Kiki's

399
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,400
Delivery Service. He was in a lot of stuff. He

400
00:22:15,720 --> 00:22:19,279
was and he was the man of a thousand voices,

401
00:22:19,279 --> 00:22:21,599
but he only was ever paid to do that, Hey Patty,

402
00:22:21,759 --> 00:22:22,759
like he always did that one.

403
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,640
Speaker 2: What was I watching? What was I watching the other day?

404
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:28,039
And I thought, of you, is Phil hot? Is it? Like?

405
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:28,720
What's it?

406
00:22:28,759 --> 00:22:28,920
Speaker 3: Is? He?

407
00:22:29,079 --> 00:22:30,839
Speaker 2: That Arnold Swartz a Christmas.

408
00:22:30,599 --> 00:22:33,359
Speaker 3: Don Christmas Cookies? Yeah?

409
00:22:34,079 --> 00:22:36,279
Speaker 2: What what's that movie? Is that? Jingle all the way?

410
00:22:36,480 --> 00:22:40,000
Speaker 3: Jingle all the way? There's an interview where he smuggling

411
00:22:40,039 --> 00:22:44,839
goes Jingle all the way to the bank. He was

412
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:50,720
an absolute treasure. And I've I've really muddied up my

413
00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,839
search indexing by talking about UFOs. And then my next

414
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,880
opportunity is a Phil Hartman project. But I love this

415
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:03,440
idea of bringing these stories from people's past back to life.

416
00:23:03,519 --> 00:23:06,359
Like Fred Chrisman had a story. Fred Chrisman had a

417
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,880
version of events that he wanted you to see. And

418
00:23:11,279 --> 00:23:13,799
you know, Mark Frost and Twin Peaks they turned that.

419
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,400
He turned that into some of the background lore for

420
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,000
the show. Cooper always has those. I think he has

421
00:23:20,039 --> 00:23:21,200
saucer dreams in the show.

422
00:23:22,079 --> 00:23:22,559
Speaker 2: And then.

423
00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:29,240
Speaker 3: Chris Carter with X Files did the Marlborough Man and

424
00:23:29,279 --> 00:23:33,920
Cancer Man Cancer Man, and so in that it's directly

425
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,480
I'm ninety eight percent sure that's Chrismin. I don't know

426
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,480
if Chris Carter's ever talked about it. Shows allude to it,

427
00:23:40,880 --> 00:23:42,880
because he's always the dude with the cigarette in the back,

428
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,599
controlling what's going on. And then my version is what

429
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:49,599
if everything he said was true, but we don't. We

430
00:23:49,599 --> 00:23:52,680
don't pull the brakes off, and when you don't take

431
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:55,119
the breaks off, it's way funnier. It's like evil Dead.

432
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because there's an X Files episode called

433
00:23:59,759 --> 00:24:02,880
men or Memory of a Cigarette Smoking Man or something

434
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:07,440
like that, right, And essentially he's very much like Chrisman

435
00:24:07,599 --> 00:24:11,599
to the degree that Chrisman is involved in all of

436
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:18,720
these legendary pseudo historical conspiratorial realities of the twentieth century.

437
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,359
So he's involved in the Shavin mystery, he's involved at

438
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:24,200
the very beginning of UFO law with arguably the first

439
00:24:24,279 --> 00:24:28,279
UFO crash, he's meant to be involved in the Kennedy assassination.

440
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,640
He's involved in weird right wing you know, secret society

441
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,200
says all these things, much like the Cancer Man. I

442
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,799
never even drew that, you know that parallel until you

443
00:24:36,839 --> 00:24:37,720
said it. That's fascial.

444
00:24:37,839 --> 00:24:41,920
Speaker 3: It's because of the Kennedy tie. They specifically in that

445
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,119
show they added more. I remember that one. I had

446
00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,400
higher hopes for that after the crazy stuff I wrote,

447
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:48,799
and when I finally saw it, I was like, Oh,

448
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,000
he assassinated people. That's just one of the things. Chrismn

449
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:55,839
was if The Cancer Man had a right wing radio show,

450
00:24:56,039 --> 00:24:59,799
and I don't think it would have carried the same mystique.

451
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,000
Speaker 2: Man Chrismin is definitely a crazy cat. We have a

452
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:10,279
question from Flat Rookland Matt Auckland. In other ways, a

453
00:25:10,319 --> 00:25:11,680
good friend of the show has been a guest, and

454
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:12,960
I don't know if you want to say it on air,

455
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:14,680
but he's somebody you should hook up with. You you

456
00:25:14,839 --> 00:25:18,359
ucking great guy. He's asking where in Washington are you, Brian?

457
00:25:19,559 --> 00:25:22,079
Speaker 3: Right now, I'm in the University District down by the

458
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:25,519
University of Washington, but I grew up in Sea tac

459
00:25:25,599 --> 00:25:32,240
Bury in area Normandy Park. But and I studied in

460
00:25:32,279 --> 00:25:35,240
Olympia where Matt Groening who made the Simpsons win because

461
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,039
I'm a big fan of animation. Should we keep going

462
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:42,279
about Chrismin? You want to talk about UFO movies now?

463
00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 2: I mean the problem with with you and me and Chrismin,

464
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,000
Andel Palmer and al Shava is like we could do

465
00:25:49,079 --> 00:25:51,200
like we've already done one show or two shows. How

466
00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:52,640
many shows have we done on that already?

467
00:25:52,799 --> 00:25:54,519
Speaker 3: I don't know, but we filled half an hour with

468
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:55,599
just us catching up.

469
00:25:57,480 --> 00:25:59,279
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, okay, let's roll back to the UFO.

470
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,559
So I mean, incidentally, X files is a place we

471
00:26:02,599 --> 00:26:04,240
can take it as well, and I will quickly then

472
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,079
I'll throw it back to you and will probably rewind

473
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:10,519
because we were talking about x files. Then. It's interesting

474
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,759
that the nineteen fifties alien invasion movies like Daily Stem

475
00:26:15,799 --> 00:26:18,960
Steel or Earth Versus the Flying Sources, or the movie

476
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,000
Horrace mentioned before, Invaders from Mars or the lower budget

477
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,400
ones Kill Us from Space, and all these other movies.

478
00:26:25,799 --> 00:26:28,319
They're all very much a product of their time. There

479
00:26:28,319 --> 00:26:31,480
are product a of people not really knowing and not

480
00:26:31,559 --> 00:26:36,160
really having any very firm idea about what the flying

481
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,839
sources are yet they're probably from out of space, but

482
00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:41,240
there hasn't been enough UFO literature yet for them to

483
00:26:41,279 --> 00:26:43,920
have all the occupants a little gray Man, or that

484
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,759
there's an MJ twelve secret government you know program that

485
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,319
you know, the US government are hiding from US in

486
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:51,720
league with the extraterrestrials, or that there's men in Black,

487
00:26:51,799 --> 00:26:54,799
or all of these kind of things haven't been developed yet.

488
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,359
By the time of the X Files, of course, which

489
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:02,599
we're going forward, you know, forty years, the X Files

490
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:08,000
has a very rich tapestry of UFO belief to explore

491
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:11,599
and draw from. So by then people are very aware

492
00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,079
of the Roswell crash, which had been forgotten after the

493
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880
US Army Air Force didit's retraction the day after the

494
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,079
initial headlines. Euphologists didn't talk about that again until the

495
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,920
late seventies early eighties, but by the time of the

496
00:27:23,079 --> 00:27:26,720
X Files, Roswell is the key incident. Men in Black

497
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,640
are a thing. By the time of the X Files,

498
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,119
and clearly the Will Smith movie that followed shortly thereafter,

499
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,279
as well, the Will Smith Vehicle, all of the legends

500
00:27:35,319 --> 00:27:41,039
of eupology, the secret government dealings, the alien abduction stories.

501
00:27:41,319 --> 00:27:44,039
All of these things have become part of the euphological

502
00:27:44,559 --> 00:27:46,680
tale or part of the books are a part of

503
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:50,400
the euthological canon. In the nineteen fifties, Hollywood screenwriters didn't

504
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:52,599
have that stuff to get to. But by the time

505
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,400
of the X Files, we have all of that stuff.

506
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:55,599
Speaker 3: Now.

507
00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:58,240
Speaker 2: I know you wanted to talk about Close Encounters, so

508
00:27:58,279 --> 00:28:01,160
maybe we can rewind from that. Even in those two

509
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,359
snippets the fifties and then the X Files, we can

510
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:09,279
see how different Hollywood's dealings with or Hollywood's interpretation of

511
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,759
UFO law has become. In the fifties, it's all over

512
00:28:12,799 --> 00:28:15,200
the place, it's all Cold War orientated. By the nineties,

513
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,039
it's all post Watergate, it's or conspiratory, it's all post

514
00:28:18,119 --> 00:28:23,960
you know, UFO law being having a very certain narrative

515
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,720
about what happened historically from Roswell to the present. But

516
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,720
going back to Close Encounters, that's interesting because that's almost

517
00:28:30,799 --> 00:28:33,519
halfway between the two, a little over halfway between. But

518
00:28:34,039 --> 00:28:37,119
let's maybe start there. Tell me your impressions of Close Encounter.

519
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:39,799
I love it, great movie, but you tell me about it.

520
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 3: I was going to tell you my mom's favorite show,

521
00:28:43,039 --> 00:28:45,480
my late mom. Her favorite show was X Files and

522
00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:48,440
I remember watching it from behind the couch. You know

523
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,880
British people always talking about watching Doctor Who from behind

524
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,119
the couch. X Files. That theme, that theme song is

525
00:28:54,119 --> 00:28:55,559
still creepy to me. I don't like it.

526
00:28:55,799 --> 00:28:57,799
Speaker 2: It's scary, funny enough. I had a girlfriend in Sydney

527
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,759
years ago, her and her brother, because we had we

528
00:29:00,799 --> 00:29:03,759
had Doctor Who and Sydney in the afternoons. It was

529
00:29:03,759 --> 00:29:05,880
like an after school show, like four point thirty five,

530
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,640
like before you had your dinner on the ABC, the

531
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,680
Australian Broadcasting Corporation like your PPS. I guess yes. And

532
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:14,759
she told me that her and her brother would hide

533
00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,720
behind the couchs just like you're talking about the X Files.

534
00:29:17,839 --> 00:29:20,279
Because that music of Doctor Who was so scary, just

535
00:29:20,319 --> 00:29:23,599
like Mark Snow's theme for The X Files was super scary.

536
00:29:24,599 --> 00:29:27,759
Speaker 3: That early synthesizer too. Doctor Who had the one of

537
00:29:27,759 --> 00:29:30,799
the first synthesized theme songs, and it was just taking

538
00:29:30,839 --> 00:29:32,799
samples and playing them in an order. There was no

539
00:29:32,839 --> 00:29:35,839
way to like, Actually I know too much about Doctor Who.

540
00:29:35,839 --> 00:29:38,640
I shouldn't start, but X Files really got me into

541
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,440
that kind of fiction. I would love to talk about

542
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:45,920
the nineteen seventies movie The UFO Incident, if that'd be

543
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:46,559
a good start.

544
00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:49,079
Speaker 2: Sure, Deddy and Bowney Hill story.

545
00:29:49,119 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, that movie is considered really campy and lame, but

546
00:29:53,799 --> 00:29:55,920
I watched it and thought it was pretty effective. It's

547
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,680
it's arguably the most effective because it shows the least

548
00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:02,920
the more you show. And we're talking about how history

549
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,559
of UFOs and Men in Black and all that that

550
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,920
took Albert Bender and all these guys years and years

551
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,440
to formulate, which is why by X files you have

552
00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:14,519
that this rich tapestry to pull from the UFO Incident

553
00:30:14,599 --> 00:30:17,880
pulls back just enough to show you. I think you

554
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:20,279
see the aliens once and they're just they're just walking

555
00:30:20,319 --> 00:30:23,640
them to the to the ship, right. It's it's constrained.

556
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:27,200
It's nice. Chrispin's the exact opposite. I mean, look, there's

557
00:30:27,559 --> 00:30:30,400
I gotta learn how to do this. He's holding an alien.

558
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,039
There are alien, there's no there's no mystery. X Files

559
00:30:33,079 --> 00:30:35,079
always freaked me out because you're gonna see the grays

560
00:30:35,119 --> 00:30:38,039
at some point. Chrismin on the cover of the thing

561
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,640
is holding the alien like and my point being that

562
00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,680
when you when you pull back like the shark in Jaws,

563
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,519
you don't want to actually see the aliens. Close encounters

564
00:30:47,559 --> 00:30:50,880
did it so effectively. The UFO incident did it so effectively.

565
00:30:52,599 --> 00:30:54,920
I like what Fire in the Sky did, and I

566
00:30:55,119 --> 00:30:58,960
liked Communion, But Communions the example of more is less.

567
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:03,559
Where that first scene in Communion if if no one's

568
00:31:03,559 --> 00:31:05,960
seen it, there's this famous jump scare where walking goes

569
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,759
who's there and you start seeing the spooky alien head

570
00:31:08,799 --> 00:31:09,359
poking out.

571
00:31:09,519 --> 00:31:11,519
Speaker 2: Man, I'm getting chields just thinking about it. That's a

572
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:14,000
screay sequence, and.

573
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 3: It's a puppet. It's a little rubber put it. Actually

574
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:23,200
it would be you know, it'd be who's there. That's

575
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:26,640
a lot spookier than that. And by the time you

576
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:29,640
get to the end of Communion there's the aliens are

577
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:33,839
moving like this. It's great.

578
00:31:34,599 --> 00:31:37,559
Speaker 2: But and of course having Christopher walk and play Whitley

579
00:31:37,599 --> 00:31:39,680
streeb it was like it was costing. It was just

580
00:31:39,799 --> 00:31:42,240
genius costing. He's so great in that movie.

581
00:31:42,519 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 3: I got the the original book and started listening to it,

582
00:31:46,279 --> 00:31:48,039
and maybe this is a good subject to tap on

583
00:31:48,799 --> 00:31:53,799
tap into. It's that book and I only made it

584
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,880
about two hours in, so I'm I'm gonna jump on

585
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,680
the jump to conclusions. Matt He talks a lot about

586
00:31:59,759 --> 00:32:03,000
memory that he had that were altered, and I think

587
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,720
we all have really spooky I saw a thunderbird as

588
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,640
a kid. I saw when I was a little kid,

589
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,759
while my mom was sleeping. I saw this just like

590
00:32:13,759 --> 00:32:16,240
like a Sketchies from the Dark crystal in my mind

591
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:19,279
and it went ah, and it freaked me out. My

592
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:20,839
mom said, go to bed. You know this is not

593
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,640
You're just dreaming. And I had a friend I talked

594
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,400
to it. He said, that's a thunderbird of Native American lore,

595
00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:28,839
and it means this is And then twenty years later

596
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:32,079
I realized I lived next to Saltwater State Park where

597
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,039
these uh blue herons live, and they would there's videos

598
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:40,079
of them. They just wander into traffic. They look like

599
00:32:40,079 --> 00:32:44,839
giant dinosaurs and they go. And it was it was

600
00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:49,079
this really big paranormal thing in my mind that I

601
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,319
stripped the curtain back and realized that maybe anyway, I

602
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:56,160
just don't want to see the rubber alien.

603
00:32:56,519 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 2: No, just quickly before we leave the UFO wincident, which

604
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,880
is cool of course, based on the Interrupted Journey, which

605
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,119
is a book written by what's his name is it,

606
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,319
I want to say, Curtis Fuller, I can't even watch

607
00:33:10,319 --> 00:33:14,039
his name. I think that's right, which is about the

608
00:33:14,799 --> 00:33:17,559
Betty and Barney abduction story, which kind of there'd been

609
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,240
UFO abductions prior to that, like the Villa BoA's case

610
00:33:21,319 --> 00:33:24,079
in Brazil, and you know, but this was the one

611
00:33:24,119 --> 00:33:29,799
which really introduced many of the modern tropes, particularly to America.

612
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:34,759
The start, well, the abductees, the probing, the lost time,

613
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:37,440
the memories being messed up because Villa Bo has remembered

614
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:39,880
everything like and where his was more almost like a

615
00:33:39,880 --> 00:33:44,519
fairy tale version. There was actual physical family show as well,

616
00:33:44,559 --> 00:33:47,599
but there was physical relations. There wasn't just like weird

617
00:33:47,599 --> 00:33:52,200
genetic you know, fluid extraction and belly probing and things. Right,

618
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:58,680
But anyway, I think it's worth noting how influential that

619
00:33:58,799 --> 00:34:04,359
became on the way UFO belief developed. But here's what's

620
00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:06,599
interesting for the Night Show, because we're talking about the

621
00:34:06,599 --> 00:34:12,519
interrelation ships of Hollywood productions and actual UFO belief. It's

622
00:34:12,559 --> 00:34:18,119
perhaps one of the greatest psychosocial theorists in UFO history

623
00:34:18,199 --> 00:34:21,519
is Martin Kottemeyer, and he hasn't remembered anywhere near enough

624
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,840
or given anywhere near enough credit. I cited him quite

625
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:29,000
extensively in my PhD dissertation, particularly on this stuff, and

626
00:34:29,119 --> 00:34:36,400
Kottomeyer suggested that there's nothing in that original like, you know,

627
00:34:36,599 --> 00:34:40,760
the Betty Bunny Hill story, which hadn't already been laid

628
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,079
out in movies like what Horace mentioned before, Invaders from Mars,

629
00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:49,880
like kill Us from Space, various other U nineteen fifties

630
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,480
UFO movies have abduction motives. People are taken, chips are

631
00:34:53,519 --> 00:34:56,360
planted in them, they forget who they are, they're kind

632
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:01,679
of they get this gap in their memories. And even

633
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,440
he went so far as to mention that I think

634
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,079
ten or twelve days before the hypnosis session which Betty

635
00:35:08,079 --> 00:35:10,840
and Barney Hill remembered what happened to them under an

636
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,840
Outer Limits episode aired on American TV, which had the

637
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,719
kind of exact and alien with exactly the type of

638
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:19,599
eyes that.

639
00:35:19,639 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 3: They had really long yeah, that Betty and.

640
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 2: Barney Hill describe. So as kod Maia says, there's nothing

641
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:31,599
in the abduction accounts when they start that hadn't already

642
00:35:31,639 --> 00:35:34,599
been dealt with in American science fiction. So it really

643
00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:41,320
makes one think, what, regardless of the genuine phenomenological cause

644
00:35:41,679 --> 00:35:44,360
of whatever it is that make people have these experiences,

645
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,639
Because I don't think abductees are lying to us, and

646
00:35:46,679 --> 00:35:49,000
I don't think abductee I mean, some people are lying

647
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:51,239
in whatever field you talk about, right, But I think

648
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,440
the majority of abductees are sincere. I've certainly spoken to

649
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:59,960
abductees that seem very sincere in what happened to them.

650
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:03,400
But you have to wonder how much of those experiences,

651
00:36:03,559 --> 00:36:06,519
how much of their perception and their memories of those experiences,

652
00:36:07,639 --> 00:36:10,920
And incidentally, even more so, when those memories have been

653
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:14,679
recalled under hypnosis, how much of their subconscious hasn't been

654
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:22,239
influenced by this very very extensive effort, not intentional effort,

655
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,519
but this very extensive effort by Hollywood to show us

656
00:36:26,559 --> 00:36:29,639
what it looks like when we're abducted by aliens. Now,

657
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:33,280
flash forward to Close Encounters, and further forward when those

658
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,920
movies start becoming euthologically accurate, and people today, if they

659
00:36:38,079 --> 00:36:40,679
are asked in a you know, a hypnotic state to

660
00:36:41,199 --> 00:36:44,159
remember what happened when they thought they were abducted by aliens,

661
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:47,679
think of all of the movies, all of the TV shows,

662
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:51,039
all the pop you know, cultural images that they have

663
00:36:51,119 --> 00:36:55,159
to draw from when they recount those stories.

664
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:58,039
Speaker 3: Well, have you heard the interview, like the actual audiotape,

665
00:36:58,079 --> 00:37:03,760
like Betty, like Varney in particulars. But yeah, the the

666
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:07,039
hypnotherapist is kind of leading a little bit. Did they

667
00:37:07,119 --> 00:37:09,639
speak like a human? Did they speak with lips? And

668
00:37:09,679 --> 00:37:11,480
when you say did they speak with lips? Your brain

669
00:37:11,519 --> 00:37:15,800
goes maybe they didn't. Maybe, And I that's where this

670
00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:18,400
stuff gets really interesting. I'm I'm willing to bet you

671
00:37:19,079 --> 00:37:20,760
all the money in my wallet. You've probably had a

672
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,880
dream where you've been abducted by something, probably aliens. Maybe

673
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:29,679
Darrow's knowing you. Like the whole concept. I mean, the

674
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:34,000
Darrow subducted people too in the Shaver mystery lore. But people,

675
00:37:34,679 --> 00:37:40,119
people have basic memories. There's a there's also in the

676
00:37:40,119 --> 00:37:43,239
circles right now, there's this theory that the gray alien

677
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,719
is a composite of every doctor you've ever seen as

678
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,199
a child, because it's this this face that's not in focus.

679
00:37:49,639 --> 00:37:51,599
It's like the end of Trainspotting when the camera goes

680
00:37:51,599 --> 00:37:53,760
out of focus. He's got the kind of skull looking

681
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,480
face just to how the light works. It's the same idea.

682
00:37:57,519 --> 00:38:02,280
It's that it's when we when we tag I have

683
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,760
a friend who's you know, he researches tagging animals, and

684
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,519
when when you do that, that's probably a UFO abduction

685
00:38:09,599 --> 00:38:13,239
to it to a cat or whatever animal isn't familiar

686
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,280
with this. And I guess what I'm getting at is

687
00:38:17,519 --> 00:38:19,920
the human mind is so unreliable when it comes to

688
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:23,000
these things that it's interesting to see what you layer on.

689
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,119
Communion layers a lot on, but also that this is

690
00:38:27,159 --> 00:38:29,239
probably in the Interrupted Journey. I'm going to pick that

691
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:31,119
up today. It's John G.

692
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,639
Speaker 2: Fuller, by the way, I just checked, I said Curtis Fuller.

693
00:38:33,679 --> 00:38:37,039
Of course, Curtis Fuller is is Ray Palmer's co creator

694
00:38:37,079 --> 00:38:40,239
of Fake Magazine. I always have palmering on my mind.

695
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,840
But it's yeah, it's it's it's John J. Fuller. But

696
00:38:43,119 --> 00:38:47,800
it's worth reading. And it's the psychiatrist Benjamin Simon in

697
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,920
that the one who does the the regression therapy as

698
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,079
we call it now. He didn't think they were abducted

699
00:38:54,079 --> 00:38:57,679
by ets. He thought that something had happened to them that,

700
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,880
you know, it maybe caused them to fabulate this story.

701
00:39:02,039 --> 00:39:04,599
So the very first it wasn't like he was being

702
00:39:04,639 --> 00:39:07,639
it wasn't like they were you know, hypnotized by John

703
00:39:07,719 --> 00:39:10,320
Mack twenty years later, or by Bud Hopkins, or by

704
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:13,119
David Jacobs, people who were all in or Edith Fiorre,

705
00:39:13,599 --> 00:39:16,119
all these people who were all in on believing that

706
00:39:16,199 --> 00:39:19,400
their patients had actually been taken by ETS. The very first,

707
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,599
you know, psychiatrist who did this work with the very

708
00:39:22,639 --> 00:39:26,599
first I guess, the people who launched the modern abduction story.

709
00:39:26,639 --> 00:39:28,719
He didn't think they'd actually been taken by ETS. He

710
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,880
thought there was something like, you know, something traumatic there,

711
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,000
but not an ET abduction.

712
00:39:33,159 --> 00:39:35,519
Speaker 3: They saw a roadblock in some version of it that

713
00:39:35,599 --> 00:39:41,079
I heard, And there's there's some understanding that they saw

714
00:39:41,159 --> 00:39:43,360
people who were telling them to get off the road,

715
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:46,440
and then they started recalling being pushed onto the ship

716
00:39:46,559 --> 00:39:49,480
kind of walked over. Isn't that true? I could be wrong.

717
00:39:50,039 --> 00:39:54,639
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the thing about there and Kurt and actually incidentally, Horace,

718
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:57,239
I thank you very much, had already said John G. Fuller,

719
00:39:58,039 --> 00:39:59,840
And I hadn't actually seen that. I had to go

720
00:39:59,880 --> 00:40:02,559
and google because I knew I was wrong, But thank you,

721
00:40:02,599 --> 00:40:05,400
Horace Smith. And I have a question from Horace as well.

722
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:10,159
We'll get back to the interesting thing in the when

723
00:40:10,199 --> 00:40:12,800
you read the interrupted journey and when you, I guess,

724
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,239
listen to all the tapes. I haven't listened to all

725
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:15,960
of them, but I've listened to some of them. Is

726
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:21,559
how the story transforms and how you can see the

727
00:40:21,599 --> 00:40:26,599
realities from the real world impacting their imaginal And I

728
00:40:26,639 --> 00:40:29,000
don't mean that dismissively, but it's this state that they

729
00:40:29,039 --> 00:40:34,119
clearly entered. It impacted their imaginal experiences. For example, they'd

730
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:40,280
been they'd felt intimidated by hoodlers in black leather jackets

731
00:40:40,280 --> 00:40:42,440
earlier that night, and of course we're talking about a

732
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,239
period in America. Well, Betty was a white woman, Barney

733
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,039
was a black man, where it wasn't easy to be

734
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:53,440
in rural places, necessarily being in a mixed race relationship.

735
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,800
So they felt threatened by that. Apparently they'd felt threatened

736
00:40:56,800 --> 00:41:00,119
in the past when they'd been on road trips. And

737
00:41:00,599 --> 00:41:04,400
Barney's description of the ets is very telling because he

738
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,119
he changes what he thinks they look like. At one

739
00:41:08,199 --> 00:41:11,440
stage he says they're wearing Nazi uniforms, black leather jackets

740
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:15,880
as well, like the hoods who felt threatening, they're Nazis,

741
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,639
he says at one stage. Of course, probably impactful, you know,

742
00:41:18,679 --> 00:41:22,320
he's probably worried again about and rightfully so. Probably at

743
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,679
the time he's concerned about his you know, the status

744
00:41:25,679 --> 00:41:28,360
of his marriage being mixed raised. At another stage, he

745
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:33,159
says they look like irishmen, and he says within that

746
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:39,480
within that interview with Simon, he says that he's he's

747
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:44,159
known that most Irishmen he's ever met a racist. This

748
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:46,559
is a strange court. Maybe they always were, but he's

749
00:41:46,599 --> 00:41:51,320
clearly he's clearly bothered by Irishmen and Nazis, maybe for

750
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,000
good reasons. And but they're very different from the type

751
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,639
of you know, the type of proto gray extraterrestrials that

752
00:41:59,679 --> 00:42:02,480
they're eventually described that in another phase, I think he

753
00:42:02,559 --> 00:42:06,880
says that they have noses like Jimmy Durante. Jimmy Durante

754
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,239
was a famous American comedian with a very big nose. Ultimately,

755
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,000
somehow we get to a level that they don't quite

756
00:42:13,039 --> 00:42:15,559
look like gray ets yet, but they're getting us there.

757
00:42:15,639 --> 00:42:17,480
They're moving into that space.

758
00:42:17,199 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 3: With no lips, black hair too.

759
00:42:21,039 --> 00:42:24,119
Speaker 2: It changes. It's the weirdest thing. Yeah, And that's what

760
00:42:24,159 --> 00:42:26,559
it seems like that they are in this kind of

761
00:42:26,599 --> 00:42:31,920
you know, subconscious imaginal space, confabulating, you know, this story

762
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,639
rather than them actually telling you a direct interpretation, like

763
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,239
you might be going to the grocery store yesterday and

764
00:42:39,599 --> 00:42:41,960
what the cashier was like you served you. This seems

765
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:48,840
to be transforming from into very different shapes as under hypnosis,

766
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,119
Barney's recalling what he saw.

767
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:54,920
Speaker 3: How was Communion seen when it came out from all

768
00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:57,000
the people who read the book, because the book's a

769
00:42:57,039 --> 00:43:03,119
lot more about hidden memories and conflating bad childhood experiences

770
00:43:03,119 --> 00:43:06,239
that are secretly masked as possible alien abductions if you

771
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,360
look at it from this way, I mean, I know

772
00:43:09,519 --> 00:43:12,400
Wakin wasn't well received by the original author, right.

773
00:43:13,079 --> 00:43:15,159
Speaker 2: You know what, I don't know if you might be right,

774
00:43:15,199 --> 00:43:17,639
I'm not. I probably knew once and I've forgotten what

775
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,639
Streeper's interpretation of having walk and plain. I still think

776
00:43:21,639 --> 00:43:24,719
it was genius casting because Walkin has his genuine intensity.

777
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,039
And of course, you know, when you're making a feel

778
00:43:27,039 --> 00:43:30,800
and when you're adapting from original material, it's very different

779
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:36,679
to to convey a story visually as it is on

780
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,679
the written page. And I think A Communion did a

781
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,119
very good job of perhaps capturing the tone of the

782
00:43:43,199 --> 00:43:46,000
weirdness and some of the terror that Whitley was feeling

783
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:49,000
through those early experiences. I think Community is a really

784
00:43:49,039 --> 00:43:52,559
strong movie. I mean, I think it's.

785
00:43:53,039 --> 00:43:54,199
Speaker 3: Flew while I watched it.

786
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 2: By the way, you might have mess you up more,

787
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,079
particularly if you were taken like Medica was sick.

788
00:43:59,239 --> 00:44:01,000
Speaker 3: Well, because we talked about doing the show a couple

789
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:02,519
of weeks ago and Emily was sick and I was

790
00:44:02,519 --> 00:44:05,480
getting sick, and I was like, let's just well, I'm

791
00:44:05,519 --> 00:44:07,639
just gonna run a bunch of movies and we'll see.

792
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:12,519
We'll see how this this myth keeps escalating. And in

793
00:44:12,559 --> 00:44:15,159
that one they actually mentioned Darrow like creatures. There's a

794
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:17,400
Russian friend that Wakin has and he goes, I remember

795
00:44:17,440 --> 00:44:21,119
seeing these these creatures in these caves and they would

796
00:44:21,159 --> 00:44:23,320
abduct humans every so off and walk and goes, what

797
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,880
are you crazy? Like. Wakin's like, no, my thing's all good.

798
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,360
Your Thing's absolutely bonkers. I'm not buying that.

799
00:44:30,559 --> 00:44:32,440
Speaker 2: You know, I have to rewatch it because I forgot that.

800
00:44:33,199 --> 00:44:38,159
But I know later in the several books at Whitley's

801
00:44:38,159 --> 00:44:42,280
written about his experiences, he starts to suggest that these

802
00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:47,119
things are like fairy or like you know, underground beings.

803
00:44:47,159 --> 00:44:48,960
From the part he doesn't probably I don't know if

804
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,840
he ever makes the Darrow comparison, but he certainly makes

805
00:44:52,239 --> 00:44:55,760
the folkloreic comparison to creatures that have traditionally lived on

806
00:44:55,800 --> 00:44:59,760
the planet in the subterranean context, whether it's fairies or

807
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:01,440
no so goblins or whatever.

808
00:45:02,119 --> 00:45:04,320
Speaker 3: There's a YouTuber put out a really good video called

809
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,360
the abduct The Abduction of Jacob Jacobson, which is an

810
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,159
old I think it's an old German tale in nord

811
00:45:10,199 --> 00:45:15,480
Norwegian tail, but it's about a guy who went across

812
00:45:15,480 --> 00:45:17,559
a lake and he went to go get food for

813
00:45:17,639 --> 00:45:20,440
his family, and he was a twenty something and he

814
00:45:20,519 --> 00:45:22,880
saw a road that just was not supposed to be there.

815
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:24,440
He knew there was not a road there, and there

816
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:26,719
was a big red mansion and he goes in and

817
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:29,719
there's all these tall creatures that look like humans. There's

818
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,719
all these humanoids, small people, and they ask him to

819
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,599
eat their food and live with them and go traveling

820
00:45:35,639 --> 00:45:37,679
with them, and when he says no, they say, you're

821
00:45:37,679 --> 00:45:39,920
a disgusting man, and I don't like your mouth. And

822
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,639
he wakes up two days later and the road's gone

823
00:45:42,679 --> 00:45:46,599
and the cottage is gone, and it's it's super weird.

824
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:51,679
But it's just another piece of that lore. I have

825
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:55,440
a family member who's really he had never told me

826
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,599
about this, and I'm not gonna explain who it is,

827
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:02,079
but he out of nowhere one day was like, oh, yeah,

828
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:05,639
you know, I your grandparents saw the phoenix lights and

829
00:46:05,679 --> 00:46:07,920
there's there's a little this in that here that that

830
00:46:08,039 --> 00:46:10,920
is true. And he really has tried to convince me

831
00:46:11,719 --> 00:46:13,719
that it's all just through the lens of the viewer,

832
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,639
the same way communion was adapted to be a little

833
00:46:16,679 --> 00:46:19,599
more goofy and simple to a person who doesn't like

834
00:46:19,639 --> 00:46:22,199
youfo stuff. You know, you want your kids to understand it,

835
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:26,480
the same way that's happening. It's when we see a

836
00:46:26,559 --> 00:46:30,239
gray or He says that he's met people who've seen sasquatches.

837
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:33,199
You have to be a certain kind of person, it seems.

838
00:46:33,239 --> 00:46:35,199
It has to be the wind hits you the certain

839
00:46:35,639 --> 00:46:39,519
right kind of way. And just these two universes cross over.

840
00:46:39,719 --> 00:46:42,000
We don't know if it's extra dimensional, we don't know

841
00:46:42,119 --> 00:46:45,639
exactly what, but there's something magic about that. And I

842
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,280
like that he keeps it. He keeps his beliefs in

843
00:46:48,320 --> 00:46:53,519
this stuff just out of reach of understandability, and Shaver

844
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,639
and Palmer talked about that too, which they did, like

845
00:46:56,679 --> 00:46:59,079
a universe just to the left, and every so often

846
00:46:59,119 --> 00:47:01,239
we bump into something it's not supposed to be there,

847
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:05,480
and that keeps it a lot more mysterious than these

848
00:47:05,519 --> 00:47:09,320
beings from Mars came down and you get my point.

849
00:47:09,639 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 2: I totally get your point, and I agree with that point.

850
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:15,920
I think that whatever the other is that we have

851
00:47:16,159 --> 00:47:21,159
these experiences or encounters with, I think we're bringing something

852
00:47:21,239 --> 00:47:24,480
to that encounter, just like the individual you were talking

853
00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:26,719
about says, And a number of people have made those

854
00:47:26,760 --> 00:47:32,880
same suggestions. Obviously Palmer made it an awful lot. John Keele,

855
00:47:33,119 --> 00:47:38,000
Jacques Vlais probably popularized it. Greg Bishop wrote a very

856
00:47:38,039 --> 00:47:42,559
good piece in a book by the late Robbie Grame.

857
00:47:42,679 --> 00:47:46,360
Robbie Graham edited it called UFOs, reframing the debate by

858
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,079
the way Robbie Grain the late Robbie gram also wrote

859
00:47:49,079 --> 00:47:51,119
a book What's it called the have it on my

860
00:47:51,119 --> 00:47:53,280
bookshelf over there. I meant to pull it out before

861
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:57,239
the show called I think it's like sources of the

862
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,679
silver screen or something, and it's about what we're talking

863
00:47:59,719 --> 00:48:07,239
about tonight, about that interconnectedness between between UFO UFOs in

864
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:11,719
the skies and UFOs on the screen, and potential involvement

865
00:48:11,800 --> 00:48:16,920
with you know, intelligence agencies manipulating you know, Hollywood narratives

866
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,559
and things, and those those ideas are fairly popular. I'm

867
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:23,559
not sure how much I believe the idea that those

868
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,559
movies were all crafted by you know, I don't know

869
00:48:27,639 --> 00:48:30,719
representatives of m J twelve or the CIA trying to

870
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,800
you know, throw people off. But certainly there's a long

871
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:40,079
history of military and civilian intelligence agencies having deals with

872
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:44,239
Hollywood where and the media in general to shape, you know,

873
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,119
narratives and to shape talking points. And Disney was clearly

874
00:48:48,159 --> 00:48:50,800
a propagandist for you know, and not necessarily in a

875
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:53,840
bad way, but he was clearly a propagandist, as most

876
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:57,559
of the studios were for America during you know, World

877
00:48:57,639 --> 00:49:00,679
War Two and into the Cold War often. So the

878
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:05,559
idea that there isn't an interconnectedness between Hollywood productions and

879
00:49:06,159 --> 00:49:10,000
intelligence agencies, I mean there clearly is, But whether that

880
00:49:10,199 --> 00:49:14,599
you know, has whether that stretched over and had a

881
00:49:14,639 --> 00:49:19,079
massive immpact on the way Hollywood was talking and still

882
00:49:19,119 --> 00:49:22,639
talks about UFOs. What I will say is interesting is

883
00:49:23,119 --> 00:49:27,800
Steven Spielberg's disclosure day is coming up Broth this June.

884
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,639
It's being released and it's clearly, you know, highly anticipated.

885
00:49:32,039 --> 00:49:35,360
What's the gosh, what's the name of the big I've

886
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,719
watched it, the big disclosure documentary that came out recently.

887
00:49:39,679 --> 00:49:40,639
Speaker 3: I haven't heard about it.

888
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's on Amazon and it's accessible. I paid

889
00:49:43,559 --> 00:49:48,000
to rented as soon as it dropped. Anyway, it's called

890
00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:53,840
Disclosure something. Interestingly, that's a documentary. Spielberg's is obviously another

891
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,840
close Encounters of the third kind type cognizant of you know,

892
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,880
today's terminology and you know, the idea year of disclosure

893
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:03,320
upon us and everything else. Age of Disclosure is the

894
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:09,360
name of the documentary. The director of Age of Disclosure

895
00:50:10,199 --> 00:50:13,320
has been a producer of Steven Spielberg's before he produced

896
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,400
Ready Player one. So it's interesting that this is me

897
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,039
putting on my tinfoil hat momentarily, which I don't try

898
00:50:20,039 --> 00:50:22,199
to do too often, but the conspiratorial tinfoil hat on.

899
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:28,280
It's interesting that we have the biggest UFO documentary probably

900
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,400
of the last several years, by called you know, the

901
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,639
Age of Disclosure, by the producer of you know, a

902
00:50:35,679 --> 00:50:38,800
recent Spielberg film, and that drops, and then a year

903
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:43,599
later Spielberg's disclosure date, the fictionalized version or maybe not

904
00:50:43,639 --> 00:50:47,360
so fictionalized version drops. So I can see why these

905
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,679
stories start to revolve about control narratives, you know, and

906
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:51,320
everything else.

907
00:50:51,840 --> 00:50:55,360
Speaker 3: I just think UFO fever catches people to every couple

908
00:50:55,360 --> 00:51:01,360
of years, I leave and come back. I did, I

909
00:51:01,440 --> 00:51:04,880
tell you remember we met Scott and Steve, Scott Schaeffer

910
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:09,480
and Steve Edmonston the producer and director, director and producer

911
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:10,199
at More Island.

912
00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:12,159
Speaker 2: But your good friends with those guys.

913
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was his intern for years. That's what got

914
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,280
me into doing a Christmin story is because he said

915
00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:20,239
it was too stupid to put on film. He's like,

916
00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,079
there's no way anyone's gonna believe any of that. He

917
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,039
didn't say it that way. He said, there's Chrispin's the

918
00:51:25,079 --> 00:51:27,719
least credible figure in the movie, which made it funnier

919
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,519
to me to make him the most credible figure. He.

920
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:36,400
I interviewed Scott and Steve together for this Chrispin documentary

921
00:51:36,440 --> 00:51:39,679
I've been starting up. We'll talk about this before. I

922
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,840
interviewed them together and then separately, and Scott told me,

923
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,559
and I didn't know this, he did a documentary show

924
00:51:46,559 --> 00:51:47,920
in the eighties. It wasn't so.

925
00:51:51,440 --> 00:51:53,159
Speaker 2: Yeah. I used to watch it. There was even a

926
00:51:53,159 --> 00:51:55,199
CD rom you could buy, which I bought back in

927
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,760
the day, which you could like it only start and

928
00:51:58,239 --> 00:52:01,519
pretend you were going down the rabbit Hole Investigation. I

929
00:52:01,639 --> 00:52:02,360
was a big fan of it.

930
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, I gotta see if that's on streaming. If not,

931
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,079
I'll rent it. Scott was also the field director on

932
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:12,360
Penn and Teller's their their show BS.

933
00:52:13,159 --> 00:52:15,920
Speaker 2: I love that show. I did not an episode what

934
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:17,199
sorry what episode.

935
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,840
Speaker 3: The Circumcision one, and he did the End of the

936
00:52:19,880 --> 00:52:22,000
World one. He interviewed the guy in Canada with the

937
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,079
underground school buses.

938
00:52:25,559 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

939
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:30,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, Scott's one of the only people that you can

940
00:52:30,119 --> 00:52:31,360
hear his voice in some of them.

941
00:52:32,159 --> 00:52:34,320
Speaker 2: And I did not know that. I knew he did,

942
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:36,599
but I didn't know. I didn't know that he did

943
00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:38,880
pen till a BS. I love both of those shows.

944
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:42,960
Speaker 3: I love pretty closely on Almost Live and then they

945
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,119
worked on building The Science Guy together. Pat, I think

946
00:52:46,159 --> 00:52:48,880
as for him exclusively at one point was like I

947
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:54,360
want Scott on this and that that turned into me

948
00:52:54,360 --> 00:52:56,800
meeting Pat and telling him, Hey, Scott and I worked

949
00:52:56,800 --> 00:52:59,039
on this thing. Would you want to do it? But

950
00:52:59,639 --> 00:53:05,039
so I worked with Travis Walton. He met those guys

951
00:53:05,199 --> 00:53:08,360
and they were in a SnowCat going to the location

952
00:53:08,559 --> 00:53:13,400
of the abduction, and he said that I wasn't sure

953
00:53:13,440 --> 00:53:15,760
any of this was real till like Travis Walton started

954
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,679
shaking and his friends put their hands on him and

955
00:53:17,679 --> 00:53:21,159
there it's okay. It's okay. And if you've ever seen

956
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:23,920
there's a new Travis Walton documentary that came out in

957
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,119
the last ten years. I think someone filmed it on

958
00:53:26,159 --> 00:53:30,679
their phone. But there's a new one. And they just

959
00:53:30,679 --> 00:53:32,079
don't seem like the kind of guys are going to

960
00:53:32,159 --> 00:53:34,119
hug each other and say everything's cool.

961
00:53:35,119 --> 00:53:37,000
Speaker 2: You know. Funnily enough, I have a blue ray that

962
00:53:37,079 --> 00:53:39,920
he that I haven't watched yet. I need to watch it.

963
00:53:40,519 --> 00:53:42,639
Speaker 3: I started it. I need to finish it. It was

964
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,320
It's given me good pointers on what to do and

965
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:48,480
what not to do. Now I'm going to meet Adam

966
00:53:48,519 --> 00:53:51,239
go Rightley, who's currently writing a Fred Cristman.

967
00:53:50,880 --> 00:53:53,519
Speaker 2: Book, Get Out of Town. You know, I've never I've

968
00:53:53,519 --> 00:53:55,719
never met Adam. Say hello to him. For me. I'm

969
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,440
a big fan his book. What is it? It's it

970
00:53:59,559 --> 00:54:03,639
just became documentary what is it? Sources spooks and kooks

971
00:54:03,760 --> 00:54:06,519
or some what's it? There's a document something like that? Right?

972
00:54:06,559 --> 00:54:10,039
The books? Right, I've got other Adam go Rightly books

973
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:15,199
on my bookshelf. Fascinating human being. Yeah, that's great meeting him.

974
00:54:15,360 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 3: Fantastic, granianly, deep researcher. He's Sometimes he would just be like, Hey,

975
00:54:19,840 --> 00:54:21,679
is this Chrismin at a convention? And I'm like, why

976
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:27,199
is Chrismin at a convention? Yeah? It is. I was

977
00:54:27,280 --> 00:54:32,440
lucky enough that he he would ask questions to me,

978
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:34,360
and then I would relay him to Fred's son. I'm

979
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:37,079
very fortunate to have met Fred's son out of nowhere,

980
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:42,039
who not only appreciated that I was making fun of

981
00:54:42,079 --> 00:54:45,199
his dad to some degree, but was like, I said,

982
00:54:45,199 --> 00:54:47,480
I want to open source all this information to people.

983
00:54:48,039 --> 00:54:51,199
And he gave me the Crispin's book Murder of a City,

984
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:56,039
and I transcribed it line for line, and then we're

985
00:54:56,039 --> 00:54:57,800
gonna We're going to publish it one of these days,

986
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:01,400
put another version out. I I also found out recently

987
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:06,880
Murder of a City that book was out for one

988
00:55:06,920 --> 00:55:09,320
hundred dollars, and I said, that's too expensive. I could

989
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,239
find it at a local bookstore. Next time I found it,

990
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,159
auction site put it up for seven hundred dollars, and

991
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:18,440
then I realized, I'm gonna sound a little egotistical here.

992
00:55:18,960 --> 00:55:23,000
This is my fault. I made a movie that and

993
00:55:23,079 --> 00:55:25,679
the movie, you know, it did well in festivals. I

994
00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:27,119
didn't know you could do two years by the way.

995
00:55:27,119 --> 00:55:30,199
I did one one year run. I made thirteen festivals,

996
00:55:30,199 --> 00:55:32,559
which is enough for me. Yeah, that's a good run,

997
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:37,000
good number, and it did Okay, I didn't you know,

998
00:55:37,119 --> 00:55:39,880
I've known a millionaire off these things. But it was

999
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,320
nice to get it out there, and I'm very fortunate

1000
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:43,159
to be part of all that.

1001
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:47,679
Speaker 2: Well, it's a fantastic film. I mean, it's incredible. It

1002
00:55:48,079 --> 00:55:50,159
does to have that run Big Raven.

1003
00:55:50,719 --> 00:55:53,719
Speaker 3: It ended up on his Wikipedia page and then that

1004
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:58,039
up the value of the book. But the thing is,

1005
00:55:58,039 --> 00:56:00,679
not enough people know about Chrismin. So what I did

1006
00:56:00,719 --> 00:56:03,599
is I essentially spent a bunch of money making a

1007
00:56:03,639 --> 00:56:06,960
movie that drove the price of the book up. And

1008
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:08,880
I'm the only person who's going to buy the book.

1009
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 2: You know, if I've seen that book, I've tried to

1010
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:14,559
buy that book. If I'd seen it for a hundred bucks,

1011
00:56:14,599 --> 00:56:16,920
I would have bought it. I think Doug Skinne. I

1012
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:18,880
don't know if Doug skin has sent me a PDF

1013
00:56:18,960 --> 00:56:21,760
of it, yet, a wonderful human being who runs John

1014
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:25,719
Keel dot com, I know he had a pdf. I'm

1015
00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,440
trying he might have sent it to me. I might

1016
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:28,880
have a PDF of it, but I.

1017
00:56:29,320 --> 00:56:31,400
Speaker 3: Put one up a couple of years ago. I went

1018
00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:33,880
to the I went and found one a copy of

1019
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:35,960
it and made a PDF, and then I went and

1020
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:39,960
retyped it, including all the spelling errors, and that took

1021
00:56:39,960 --> 00:56:42,760
a summer to do. I just basically copied it out

1022
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:46,119
and I'm still not quite sure what I read. Is

1023
00:56:46,119 --> 00:56:48,039
that weird to say it was like a homework assignment

1024
00:56:48,079 --> 00:56:51,639
after someone. It's such a character he had. He wrote,

1025
00:56:51,679 --> 00:56:52,599
like stan Lee.

1026
00:56:55,239 --> 00:56:56,840
Speaker 2: I need to read it because I haven't, but I

1027
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:57,559
do need to read it.

1028
00:56:57,559 --> 00:56:59,760
Speaker 3: It's weird. It's on archive dot org. There's a there's

1029
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:03,920
a phone scan, and then there's a retranscription of the

1030
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:04,360
whole thing.

1031
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:06,400
Speaker 2: I was good that you did that, man.

1032
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: It's just people. I bought a couple of documents off

1033
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,519
someone regarding chrismin and they were they were worth getting.

1034
00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,639
But it's people deserve this information. It should just be

1035
00:57:18,679 --> 00:57:20,639
out for free. Same with the Phil Hartman thing. I

1036
00:57:20,719 --> 00:57:25,119
understand that it's lost media, but it got released. Most

1037
00:57:25,159 --> 00:57:28,280
of it got released as an album, and a lot

1038
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:30,599
of that material that I got to pledge was the

1039
00:57:30,639 --> 00:57:33,280
funniest is going to go out as a ten minute

1040
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:36,360
short next year. And that's all the fortune of doing

1041
00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,800
the Christmin thing and talking to you. And it's important

1042
00:57:39,840 --> 00:57:42,360
that you know these voices get shared with people.

1043
00:57:42,639 --> 00:57:44,280
Speaker 2: I hope we have it at Midwest Weedfest.

1044
00:57:45,079 --> 00:57:46,079
Speaker 3: Oh would you put it up?

1045
00:57:46,760 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 2: Of course it's timely Midwest Weeddfest stylings.

1046
00:57:49,400 --> 00:57:52,079
Speaker 3: I want to go. I have this fantasy in my head.

1047
00:57:53,119 --> 00:57:56,480
We're fostering diabetic cats right now. So once that's all over,

1048
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,679
I would like to, uh go to one the Midfest

1049
00:58:00,719 --> 00:58:03,199
weird fast. I want to like, I want to like

1050
00:58:03,239 --> 00:58:07,679
sleep in your backyard and like bring equipment. Man, you

1051
00:58:07,679 --> 00:58:08,960
should go out making movies.

1052
00:58:09,519 --> 00:58:12,119
Speaker 2: You you should come. I actually I have to stay

1053
00:58:12,119 --> 00:58:14,760
in the hotel during Midwest wed Fest because I'm so

1054
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,880
far away. But if you gave me your heads up,

1055
00:58:18,039 --> 00:58:23,400
I know somebody, a very lovely human being who would

1056
00:58:23,639 --> 00:58:26,599
probably put you up in Eau Claire, within walking distance

1057
00:58:26,639 --> 00:58:29,280
of the of the festival. That would be nice. Yeah,

1058
00:58:29,800 --> 00:58:32,199
and if you have a blast. I mean the festival

1059
00:58:32,239 --> 00:58:35,280
has grown and grown and grown like it's it's the

1060
00:58:35,800 --> 00:58:38,639
sold out session after sold session now and dozens and

1061
00:58:38,679 --> 00:58:40,800
dozens of filmmakers. You'd have a really fun time if

1062
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,000
you came in Midwest wed Fest.

1063
00:58:42,519 --> 00:58:46,400
Speaker 3: You you told me you should really fly, and I

1064
00:58:46,440 --> 00:58:48,039
was like, it's like a week away. I don't think

1065
00:58:48,079 --> 00:58:50,280
I can do it. I got I got a job

1066
00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:52,960
at Croger to take care of I find out I

1067
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,280
went an a ward and I'm not there to get it.

1068
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 2: Well, there's always it's only gotten bigger since we had

1069
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:03,119
When did we We had you? Like two years ago? Three?

1070
00:59:03,239 --> 00:59:08,039
Speaker 3: I'm playing fast. Gosh what it feels like. I just

1071
00:59:08,079 --> 00:59:10,880
saw you like two weeks ago, and that was like

1072
00:59:11,480 --> 00:59:13,920
that was like right before I started dating the Lady

1073
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:16,960
of Daton. Now it was like, so that was two

1074
00:59:17,039 --> 00:59:17,480
years ago?

1075
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,079
Speaker 2: Well yeah, well yeah, I last I saw the last

1076
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:25,599
we're up to episode one hundred and ninety one. Now,

1077
00:59:25,599 --> 00:59:30,159
oh that's the the the untold radio numbering. The show's

1078
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:33,000
much older than that, with probably one hundred plus episodes before.

1079
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:35,280
But the last show you were on was one hundred

1080
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:40,039
episode one hundred and nineteen. Wow. And then I don't

1081
00:59:40,079 --> 00:59:42,920
know if that might even have been after you and

1082
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:44,559
I got to hang out some at the Man in

1083
00:59:44,599 --> 00:59:46,360
Black festival when my sol.

1084
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,119
Speaker 3: We did pretty quickly after I think.

1085
00:59:48,920 --> 00:59:50,760
Speaker 2: That would be the one, but that you know what,

1086
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:52,920
that was two years ago, this summer.

1087
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,000
Speaker 3: Yes, two years ago, this two years ago.

1088
00:59:55,440 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: Wow.

1089
00:59:56,199 --> 00:59:58,519
Speaker 3: That was a good summer. That was fun. And then

1090
00:59:58,679 --> 01:00:01,039
and then I tried to he goes to reshoot my

1091
01:00:01,119 --> 01:00:04,559
segment with good cameras and you're too busy. You went

1092
01:00:04,599 --> 01:00:05,679
to Moray Island though right.

1093
01:00:05,679 --> 01:00:07,039
Speaker 2: We were there. I mean I would have you know

1094
01:00:07,079 --> 01:00:12,000
what we could have, but you know, your stuff that

1095
01:00:12,039 --> 01:00:14,960
we shot remotely I think looked great anyway we could

1096
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:18,119
have we who do we shoot there? We shot obviously,

1097
01:00:18,199 --> 01:00:20,199
we shot Steve from the Men in Black?

1098
01:00:21,559 --> 01:00:22,480
Speaker 3: Who did we interview?

1099
01:00:22,599 --> 01:00:30,400
Speaker 2: We shot? We shot Adam and Surfile from from Yeah,

1100
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,800
Curphil's coming to the what's the name of this show?

1101
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:39,480
Speaker 3: He took me to the video store, Scarecrow Video, which

1102
01:00:39,519 --> 01:00:40,639
is right up the street from me.

1103
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:44,239
Speaker 2: Oh nice, great guy, Adam says, a great guy. And

1104
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,840
Stevenson's great, fantastic.

1105
01:00:46,960 --> 01:00:49,440
Speaker 3: And he's gonna come with us when we go see

1106
01:00:49,599 --> 01:00:50,800
Adam greatly.

1107
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:52,480
Speaker 2: That well, of course he'd want to do that. Who

1108
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:54,280
wouldn't want to go? See go? Rightly? I wish I

1109
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:55,519
could taggle on that one.

1110
01:00:57,320 --> 01:01:00,760
Speaker 3: And since then, I've upgraded the cannon equipment. So if

1111
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:03,920
Kennon wants to give me some free lenses, that'd be fantastic.

1112
01:01:04,480 --> 01:01:06,039
Speaker 2: It is it, yeah series lens.

1113
01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:11,079
Speaker 3: This one is I've I've got a really nice The

1114
01:01:11,079 --> 01:01:12,960
one I've been using for all my press stuff has

1115
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:17,360
been one hundred millimeter F two and it's from like

1116
01:01:17,480 --> 01:01:20,599
nineteen seventy nine and it's got to be to our adapter.

1117
01:01:21,239 --> 01:01:21,480
Speaker 2: Wow.

1118
01:01:22,079 --> 01:01:24,239
Speaker 3: And it's one of my favorite things in the world.

1119
01:01:24,599 --> 01:01:26,679
And since we foster cats, one of the jobs we

1120
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,239
have now is I take pictures of the cats and

1121
01:01:29,239 --> 01:01:32,880
we put them on the website with the fancy camera.

1122
01:01:35,480 --> 01:01:37,599
Speaker 2: That is. I think one of the most important things

1123
01:01:37,639 --> 01:01:42,280
about when you're filming anything is the lens more than

1124
01:01:42,280 --> 01:01:44,519
the camera. Like people get so obsessed with the camera,

1125
01:01:44,559 --> 01:01:46,519
but the lens is what. You can have the greatest

1126
01:01:46,519 --> 01:01:48,119
camera in the world and the crappy lens and it's

1127
01:01:48,119 --> 01:01:50,320
gonna look like nonsense. So the lens is more important.

1128
01:01:50,360 --> 01:01:51,320
I think. Really, I think we.

1129
01:01:51,280 --> 01:01:53,760
Speaker 3: Film me on an anamorphic I'm pretty sure I had

1130
01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:56,280
an anamorphic phone lens when you interviewed me.

1131
01:01:56,599 --> 01:01:58,480
Speaker 2: It's still looked good because you had the nice lighting

1132
01:01:58,519 --> 01:02:01,079
behind you and you know anything else. There's no reason

1133
01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:04,000
when we hang out again, because I'm this, gosh, this

1134
01:02:04,039 --> 01:02:06,719
feature has taken me so long. This we're going into

1135
01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:09,679
like I think year four now or something now. Admittably,

1136
01:02:10,079 --> 01:02:12,440
I have an awful lot of stuff. I'm super happy

1137
01:02:12,480 --> 01:02:14,800
with it. But there's a few key interviews I don't

1138
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:16,800
have yet. I have to do another trip out west

1139
01:02:17,400 --> 01:02:19,599
to the West Coast. I don't think I'm going to Washington, though,

1140
01:02:19,599 --> 01:02:21,920
I think that's LA in San Francisco this year.

1141
01:02:22,360 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 3: It feels good building that together, though there's people who

1142
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:27,840
have said no to me that I've come back around.

1143
01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:33,719
I met, I've met Harold Dolls. I believe his great

1144
01:02:33,800 --> 01:02:40,320
niece well. But the problem is the longer you take,

1145
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:43,159
the closer you get to fight in the undertaker on

1146
01:02:43,320 --> 01:02:44,239
half of these people.

1147
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:47,760
Speaker 2: That's the problem with Shave a partner Chrismins. So many

1148
01:02:47,800 --> 01:02:51,320
of those original not even not even the original participants,

1149
01:02:51,519 --> 01:02:53,639
not even that, I mean Shaver and Palm are both

1150
01:02:53,679 --> 01:02:55,880
being gone from the mid to you know, well the

1151
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:58,239
mid seventies, Chris, when did Christmin go.

1152
01:02:58,760 --> 01:03:01,599
Speaker 3: Chrismin died like seven, like the year The Muppet Show

1153
01:03:01,639 --> 01:03:01,960
came out.

1154
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,039
Speaker 2: That's the same thing. They all went in that period.

1155
01:03:04,079 --> 01:03:06,440
And then you've got some of their kind of like

1156
01:03:06,480 --> 01:03:09,480
some of their associates that are amazing or elsewhere that

1157
01:03:09,679 --> 01:03:13,519
live for you know, another decade or two. But it's

1158
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:16,639
so hard now. I'm grateful that I've met in the

1159
01:03:16,719 --> 01:03:19,960
course of this a number of people who personally knew

1160
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:23,000
Shavron Palmer, and it's a blessing when you meet them.

1161
01:03:23,440 --> 01:03:26,639
But you're very conscious of the fact that if, like

1162
01:03:26,679 --> 01:03:28,559
if I made this movie in ten years time, there

1163
01:03:28,559 --> 01:03:31,559
would be nobody left whoever shook their hand.

1164
01:03:31,360 --> 01:03:34,320
Speaker 3: There's a sick party that's half excited that you get

1165
01:03:34,360 --> 01:03:36,480
to put it in memory of because you're like, oh,

1166
01:03:36,519 --> 01:03:38,920
this will be so emotional, But then the other part goes,

1167
01:03:39,320 --> 01:03:41,559
I want them to see the movie. They so much

1168
01:03:41,559 --> 01:03:44,519
work into it too, they deserve. Yeah, that is a

1169
01:03:44,599 --> 01:03:48,639
regret of mine. As you know, Phil Hartman's brothers they're

1170
01:03:48,679 --> 01:03:53,840
around their eighties, and Fred Chrisman's son is in his

1171
01:03:53,960 --> 01:03:57,880
mid sixties. He's in great health and he's got a lot,

1172
01:03:57,960 --> 01:03:59,440
but you know, his dad smoked a pack and a

1173
01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:02,599
half a day in his fifties. My mom died in

1174
01:04:02,639 --> 01:04:06,119
her fifties. My dad's, you know, not doing so well

1175
01:04:06,119 --> 01:04:09,039
in his sixties. But age is so relative, and you

1176
01:04:09,119 --> 01:04:10,719
just want to get all this stuff done while there's

1177
01:04:10,719 --> 01:04:13,000
still time, because you want them to be happy too.

1178
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:18,039
They contribute so much, but you never know what's going

1179
01:04:18,119 --> 01:04:21,079
to happen. So maybe we both need to we need

1180
01:04:21,119 --> 01:04:22,679
to just merge it into one movie.

1181
01:04:23,519 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: There you go. We do have a question I missed

1182
01:04:27,400 --> 01:04:29,719
from Horace again that I would like to address because

1183
01:04:29,719 --> 01:04:32,639
it's a great question and a great point, and that's

1184
01:04:32,639 --> 01:04:36,840
a Donald Keyhoe book is credited with suggesting the movie

1185
01:04:36,960 --> 01:04:40,559
Earth Versus the Flying Sauces, and he says, with great

1186
01:04:40,599 --> 01:04:43,599
Harry Housen Saurces, they are great the special effects in

1187
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:46,920
that movie from the nineteen fifties. Any shave of connection

1188
01:04:47,840 --> 01:04:51,679
with Keyhoe, Well, there's certainly a Palmer connection with Keyho

1189
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:55,760
the great and and and then I'll throw it to you, Brian,

1190
01:04:55,800 --> 01:05:00,039
the great Palmer connection with Keyho, with is we with

1191
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:06,599
Keyhose Organization NICAP, the National Investigative Committee on Aerial Phenomenon

1192
01:05:08,480 --> 01:05:14,280
and that is that when Palmer was running Flying Sources magazine,

1193
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:18,239
which for almost a decade was the only newsstand magazine

1194
01:05:18,280 --> 01:05:22,760
dedicated to flying sources in America. And Palmer was in

1195
01:05:22,840 --> 01:05:28,079
many ways one of the most important people, maybe the

1196
01:05:28,079 --> 01:05:30,639
most important person in the Flying source of field, although

1197
01:05:30,679 --> 01:05:34,639
he's been written out of the history. Now Keyhose organization

1198
01:05:34,840 --> 01:05:39,079
Nicap at the same time ran some little newsletter and

1199
01:05:39,880 --> 01:05:45,280
Keyho's organization was very reluctant to talk about any reports

1200
01:05:45,719 --> 01:05:49,480
where people said they had contact with the alien beings

1201
01:05:49,599 --> 01:05:54,760
in the sources. Now, Keyho and Nightcap always were pushing

1202
01:05:54,800 --> 01:05:58,159
the theory that the flying sources were extraterrestrial from other planets,

1203
01:05:58,599 --> 01:06:01,000
so that it wasn't that they didn't be they were alien.

1204
01:06:01,039 --> 01:06:04,679
They just thought it was disrespectable to accept that people

1205
01:06:04,760 --> 01:06:07,599
were actually having contacts with the pilots. So they hated

1206
01:06:07,679 --> 01:06:11,320
all of the contactees. They just dismissed Georgia Damski, and

1207
01:06:11,400 --> 01:06:15,280
you know, just keep going from there onwards. But there

1208
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:19,519
was a case in Wisconsin, which actually the anniversary of

1209
01:06:19,559 --> 01:06:23,800
it was just the last weekend, and that's when supposedly

1210
01:06:24,000 --> 01:06:26,800
a flying sauce of land a near Eagle River not

1211
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:31,119
too far from me, and the occupants got out and

1212
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:36,039
spoke to a farmer, Joe Simonton, and wanted him to

1213
01:06:36,119 --> 01:06:38,719
give them water to pancakes with. They all like that.

1214
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:40,719
I don't know if they spoke to him telepathically or

1215
01:06:40,760 --> 01:06:42,760
through hand signals off through both, but they didn't talk

1216
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:48,719
verbally anyway. Simonton gave them the water. They baked these pancakes,

1217
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,039
and they left some of the pancakes and returned for

1218
01:06:52,079 --> 01:06:54,840
the water with Joe before they took off. Now, a

1219
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:59,440
local judge who knew Joe and believed his story also

1220
01:06:59,519 --> 01:07:03,440
happened to be member of Nicap Kio's organization, and he

1221
01:07:03,559 --> 01:07:06,960
sent some of the flap chap or the pancake whatever

1222
01:07:06,960 --> 01:07:11,480
it was to to Nightcap, who completely essentially dismissed it

1223
01:07:11,599 --> 01:07:16,079
the story. The judge was super unhappy. He contacted Ray Palmer,

1224
01:07:16,159 --> 01:07:19,559
who was running Flying Sources magazine out of Wisconsin, not

1225
01:07:19,639 --> 01:07:24,039
that far away from him, and this massive feud and

1226
01:07:24,039 --> 01:07:26,079
I don't think I already think there wasn't a whole

1227
01:07:26,079 --> 01:07:28,960
lot of you know, love loss between Palm and Nightcap,

1228
01:07:29,280 --> 01:07:32,599
but it just exploded on the on the front covers

1229
01:07:32,719 --> 01:07:35,280
of I've Got the Issue that I've Got these Nightcap

1230
01:07:35,480 --> 01:07:39,239
like you know is nightcap like you know. It essentially

1231
01:07:39,280 --> 01:07:41,239
says it's an Air Force or a CIA front. The

1232
01:07:41,320 --> 01:07:42,559
article I.

1233
01:07:42,480 --> 01:07:45,840
Speaker 3: Think I'm dreaming everything you're saying. Yeah, I think I

1234
01:07:45,880 --> 01:07:47,400
fell asleep an hour ago.

1235
01:07:47,960 --> 01:07:50,960
Speaker 2: It's a crazy story anyway. That's that's the massive Palma

1236
01:07:51,199 --> 01:07:55,800
Nightcap connection. In other words, Keho connection, and it's it's

1237
01:07:55,800 --> 01:07:59,199
a pretty big connection. It was the major feud in

1238
01:07:59,519 --> 01:08:03,599
mid del eight sixties uphology between between Ray Palmer, who

1239
01:08:03,639 --> 01:08:08,679
represented a very more relaxed view of euthology, very much

1240
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:13,559
open to different interpretations, including spiritual ones, including contactees stories

1241
01:08:13,679 --> 01:08:15,840
to Nycap, who thought it was all nuts and bolts

1242
01:08:15,880 --> 01:08:17,960
and that the Air Force already knew the secrets and

1243
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:21,399
they wanted to operate like a lobby group in you know, Washington.

1244
01:08:21,680 --> 01:08:23,920
There was a major schism which has been essentially written

1245
01:08:23,920 --> 01:08:25,840
out of the history books because nobody likes talking about

1246
01:08:25,880 --> 01:08:31,640
Ray Palmer anymore. But Flapjacks, big deal. Yeah, Well, you know,

1247
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:32,279
in this in.

1248
01:08:32,239 --> 01:08:35,960
Speaker 3: This magical world, this this multiversal theory we have which

1249
01:08:36,279 --> 01:08:39,000
Marvel has somehow I think Rick and Morty and Marvel

1250
01:08:39,039 --> 01:08:43,199
have somehow ruined those terms. Just the idea that you

1251
01:08:43,239 --> 01:08:46,680
can flip channels, and sometimes they blend together. I guess

1252
01:08:46,720 --> 01:08:48,760
there's got to be a world out there somewhere where

1253
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:52,439
the gray aliens are flapjacks. Do you ever think about

1254
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:55,119
the More Island incident, Like when the UFO is shooting

1255
01:08:55,159 --> 01:08:57,399
all that debris, Do you ever wonder if it's a

1256
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,159
chemical toilet? Or do you ever wonder if like, do

1257
01:09:01,199 --> 01:09:03,239
you ever wonder if we get the smart alien? Do

1258
01:09:03,279 --> 01:09:05,039
you think we get the aliens who they're like, this

1259
01:09:05,079 --> 01:09:06,880
is gonna take him like two years to fly out there.

1260
01:09:06,960 --> 01:09:10,479
Let's let's send Steve and Mikey over. Okay, we're gonna

1261
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:14,560
go tark. I always wonder things like that, or the

1262
01:09:14,680 --> 01:09:16,960
Betty and Barney Hill thing, like, yeah, you can take

1263
01:09:16,960 --> 01:09:20,560
the book. They gave her a book and she It's

1264
01:09:20,600 --> 01:09:22,760
one of the most emotional things I've heard is her

1265
01:09:22,840 --> 01:09:26,000
screaming in that that hypnotherapy session. She goes, no, it's

1266
01:09:26,079 --> 01:09:29,439
all I have, It's all this proof. But the idea

1267
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,079
that an alien would be like, no, yeah, you can

1268
01:09:31,119 --> 01:09:34,079
take that. What are you talking about? You can take that?

1269
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:38,760
Speaker 2: Yeah? The the change in the decision to let it

1270
01:09:38,800 --> 01:09:41,199
take the book, of course, that fits in with fairy

1271
01:09:41,279 --> 01:09:45,399
law in fairy law people always almost got the artifact

1272
01:09:45,439 --> 01:09:47,720
which would prove they'd been in fairyland, and it was

1273
01:09:47,760 --> 01:09:50,359
always snatched from them or turned into you know, dust

1274
01:09:50,399 --> 01:09:52,279
when they walked out of the fairy hill, or turning

1275
01:09:52,319 --> 01:09:55,439
them manu or leaves or something. So it very much

1276
01:09:55,520 --> 01:09:59,560
fits our ongoing connection with the other that supposedly the

1277
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:04,399
first American abductee, the first couple who launched everything we

1278
01:10:04,439 --> 01:10:08,520
really think about alien induction to this day, almost had

1279
01:10:09,319 --> 01:10:11,840
the smoking guard and then the aliens changed their mind.

1280
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:13,399
Now you know you can have it. No, no, you can't.

1281
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:16,359
It's so much a part of that.

1282
01:10:16,079 --> 01:10:19,359
Speaker 3: That patiently be the one to make this all possible

1283
01:10:19,399 --> 01:10:24,119
for everyone to fact check the So I was listening

1284
01:10:24,119 --> 01:10:25,960
to an interview you did you talk to someone whose

1285
01:10:26,000 --> 01:10:29,600
house was haunted? And I don't remember who this is

1286
01:10:30,960 --> 01:10:33,119
And I feel like a jerk even bringing this up,

1287
01:10:34,079 --> 01:10:38,520
But have you ever had someone on who is a

1288
01:10:38,520 --> 01:10:41,640
Bigfoot habituator or someone who lived with Bigfoot or an

1289
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,920
alien or anything like that where You're like, I could

1290
01:10:46,039 --> 01:10:47,840
double check this if I had an hour.

1291
01:10:49,000 --> 01:10:53,279
Speaker 2: I mean I tend to. I mean, I think, as

1292
01:10:53,319 --> 01:10:57,680
anybody who listens to this show knows, I'm fairly skeptical.

1293
01:10:57,800 --> 01:10:59,920
Not in the sense that I debunk things, because I

1294
01:11:00,119 --> 01:11:04,119
never do. But I always suspect that the phenomenon itself,

1295
01:11:05,119 --> 01:11:10,199
or our imagination is engaged with whatever this is, is

1296
01:11:10,239 --> 01:11:13,239
filled with fantasy and lies, so I'm never sure whatever

1297
01:11:13,319 --> 01:11:16,600
anybody's actually seeing. I'm not sure if I've ever had

1298
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:19,800
anybody on the show that I've thought they're lying to me.

1299
01:11:20,159 --> 01:11:24,319
I consistently think the phenomenon's lying to us it like

1300
01:11:25,399 --> 01:11:28,399
as anybody who listens regularly to the show. I probably, well, well,

1301
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:29,800
I don't say it all the time, but I probably

1302
01:11:30,319 --> 01:11:34,359
used the analogy at least half a dozen times. If

1303
01:11:34,359 --> 01:11:36,119
you're a little kid and you're playing in your front

1304
01:11:36,199 --> 01:11:40,119
yard and a creeper van pulls out the front and

1305
01:11:40,760 --> 01:11:43,920
a man dressed as a harlequin or a clown leads

1306
01:11:43,960 --> 01:11:46,520
out the window and says, hey, kid, my name's Funbo

1307
01:11:46,640 --> 01:11:49,359
the clown. I'm going to Disneyland for the greatest party ever,

1308
01:11:49,399 --> 01:11:51,840
and I've got kiddies and candy and puppies in the back.

1309
01:11:51,920 --> 01:11:54,479
Jump on in, kid, let's go to Disneyland. If you

1310
01:11:54,560 --> 01:11:57,560
trust Funbo as a kid and jump into that van,

1311
01:11:58,319 --> 01:12:00,279
you're going to be in all kinds of trouble. The

1312
01:12:00,359 --> 01:12:03,960
problem is we, while we realize and hopefully most of

1313
01:12:04,000 --> 01:12:07,039
our parents taught us about stranger danger, we don't live

1314
01:12:07,039 --> 01:12:10,560
in a culture which tells us to be cognizant that

1315
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:13,560
when we have an encounter with the other, with the strange,

1316
01:12:13,640 --> 01:12:16,520
that it might really be what it is, and our

1317
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:19,079
senses might be telling us lies, or it might be

1318
01:12:19,119 --> 01:12:23,560
telling us lies or both. Traditionally, many cultures taught us

1319
01:12:23,600 --> 01:12:26,720
to beware what the other told us. Fairy faith in

1320
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,479
Ireland is a classic example. Fairy faith told us the

1321
01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,079
fairies had something called glamour right and that they would

1322
01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:38,279
essentially trick us into seeing what they we wanted to see.

1323
01:12:38,279 --> 01:12:40,359
So you could go to the hall of the fairy King,

1324
01:12:40,399 --> 01:12:44,119
which looked magnificent and marvelous, and all of these beautiful

1325
01:12:44,119 --> 01:12:46,920
fairy maidens were dancing around you, and you were served

1326
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,960
this incredible banquet of amazing fairy food, while in reality

1327
01:12:52,000 --> 01:12:54,520
you were in a dank cave with all these ugly

1328
01:12:54,520 --> 01:12:56,800
old crones and you were eating a pile of manure.

1329
01:12:56,880 --> 01:12:59,840
I mean, that's literally an example from fairy faith. You

1330
01:13:00,399 --> 01:13:02,960
were constantly taught. If you're in Ireland, even fifty maybe

1331
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,079
one hundred. Certainly two hundred years ago, if you hadn't

1332
01:13:05,159 --> 01:13:07,880
encounter with the with the fair folk, you knew not

1333
01:13:08,000 --> 01:13:10,800
to believe what you saw. But today, if I'm driving

1334
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,039
home late at night on a dark country road and

1335
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:17,119
I see what looks like some strange light land in

1336
01:13:17,159 --> 01:13:20,159
a field, and then it's a metallic craft and little

1337
01:13:20,199 --> 01:13:23,000
men get out, and you know, I instantly think I've

1338
01:13:23,039 --> 01:13:26,479
just seen ET's Land, you know, from another planet. But

1339
01:13:26,560 --> 01:13:28,399
if I was in Ireland two hundred years ago, I

1340
01:13:28,399 --> 01:13:30,600
would have been cognizant of what I was seeing might

1341
01:13:30,640 --> 01:13:33,840
not be what I was seeing. So what I'm saying is,

1342
01:13:34,000 --> 01:13:37,199
while I don't necessarily doubt the person telling me their story,

1343
01:13:37,840 --> 01:13:40,479
I doubt their story and the capacity that I'm not

1344
01:13:40,520 --> 01:13:43,680
sure that whenever anybody has an encounter with the other

1345
01:13:44,159 --> 01:13:46,079
that what they're seeing is really what it is. And

1346
01:13:46,119 --> 01:13:48,199
I don't know what the mechanism is that makes them.

1347
01:13:48,199 --> 01:13:51,159
Maybe it might be their own senses trick them. It

1348
01:13:51,239 --> 01:13:55,319
might be that they're somehow building this story with the

1349
01:13:55,359 --> 01:13:57,760
phenomenon and they're feeding into it what they expect. It

1350
01:13:57,800 --> 01:14:01,000
might be that the phenomenon is just project nonsense at them.

1351
01:14:01,359 --> 01:14:05,479
But my problem normally is that I, well, I'm respectful

1352
01:14:05,520 --> 01:14:08,239
and I want to hear people's stories. I often do think.

1353
01:14:08,319 --> 01:14:11,720
I wonder how much of this is fabrication, not intentional

1354
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:15,359
fabrication from them, but the phenomenon itself and ow interaction

1355
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:18,840
with it causing this type of phantasm, this type of

1356
01:14:18,960 --> 01:14:22,399
you know, false imagery, false experience.

1357
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:31,640
Speaker 3: That's super interesting. Ah, I'm really all about the idea

1358
01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:34,800
of just perception and that we were never going to

1359
01:14:34,840 --> 01:14:38,720
actually know what we're seeing. And I wonder how much

1360
01:14:38,720 --> 01:14:44,279
of that do you remember? There's a famous UFO story

1361
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:50,960
of the aliens were parked outside on a road repairing

1362
01:14:51,000 --> 01:14:55,600
the ship like they were repairing a car, like as

1363
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,680
if someone else wouldn't just pull up and see that

1364
01:14:57,760 --> 01:14:58,399
at some point.

1365
01:14:59,720 --> 01:15:01,560
Speaker 2: Well, I've heard I don't know if I've heard that

1366
01:15:01,600 --> 01:15:04,479
exact one. I've certainly heard ones like it. And I

1367
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:07,319
think the phenomenon wants to be seen. It wants to

1368
01:15:07,359 --> 01:15:09,800
present to us whatever it wants to present to us,

1369
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:12,920
or whatever we want to experience. Like if you read,

1370
01:15:13,239 --> 01:15:15,199
if you read so many of the early big Foot

1371
01:15:15,239 --> 01:15:20,119
books by people like John Green and Peter Burn and

1372
01:15:20,159 --> 01:15:23,760
all those original you know Bigfoot researchers. They all tend

1373
01:15:23,800 --> 01:15:25,920
to suggest that this is a you know, a creature

1374
01:15:25,960 --> 01:15:28,000
of the woods that doesn't want to be discovered and

1375
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:30,920
as careful around, you know, humans not to be seen.

1376
01:15:31,239 --> 01:15:33,279
The amount of stories even in their own books, of

1377
01:15:33,359 --> 01:15:37,039
things banging on windows and running in front of cars

1378
01:15:37,079 --> 01:15:41,000
on freeways, like it's clear that whatever this is, whether

1379
01:15:41,039 --> 01:15:43,920
it's a UFO or a bigfoot, or a ghost or

1380
01:15:45,359 --> 01:15:51,319
a fairy, these things constantly intentionally push themselves into our reality.

1381
01:15:51,720 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 3: They're kind of like homeless people. Ever, maybe to hear

1382
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:00,760
me outside, don't sound too crazy, and Seattle's got a

1383
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:03,760
big homeless problem. We can get into all the specifics,

1384
01:16:03,800 --> 01:16:07,760
but what it is is we're trained as a society

1385
01:16:07,760 --> 01:16:11,239
to ignore homeless people because you'd never know if they

1386
01:16:11,239 --> 01:16:13,199
need something that you can't give them, or they're violent.

1387
01:16:13,319 --> 01:16:15,239
I've seen them go to Starbucks and demand to sy

1388
01:16:15,279 --> 01:16:18,239
Howard Schultz, like what are you gonna do? And because

1389
01:16:18,239 --> 01:16:21,680
of that, it creates this ripple effect where people who

1390
01:16:21,680 --> 01:16:25,159
are ignored by society act out. And I mean we

1391
01:16:25,239 --> 01:16:27,560
see that in many forms in society, but when you're

1392
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:30,239
homeless in particular, you really do feel like you're invisible,

1393
01:16:30,439 --> 01:16:32,800
like you're dead and you're a ghost and people are

1394
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:36,600
passing by, So I imagine I've seen homeless people shout

1395
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:39,800
that they're real or like, listen to me, and that

1396
01:16:40,279 --> 01:16:42,319
does have to psychological. I think it's a black mirror

1397
01:16:42,319 --> 01:16:45,880
about this that would psychologically torment you, and that must

1398
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,960
it does feel that way like the sand down clown,

1399
01:16:49,079 --> 01:16:53,159
remember you're talking about. Yeah, I just got into that one.

1400
01:16:53,199 --> 01:16:55,680
I'm really fascinated with that because it just sounds like

1401
01:16:55,720 --> 01:16:59,760
they encountered a weird homeless guy. But they specifically go

1402
01:16:59,840 --> 01:17:03,600
in to a tartist like structure and he they ask

1403
01:17:03,760 --> 01:17:07,760
him if he's a ghost, and he goes no, but

1404
01:17:07,880 --> 01:17:09,600
I am in an odd sort of way. And the

1405
01:17:09,640 --> 01:17:13,359
way he speaks sounds exactly like how people talk to

1406
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:17,680
me in dreams. But also it shares all that same

1407
01:17:17,760 --> 01:17:21,439
abduction lore of this. This weirdo who looks different invites

1408
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:25,640
you to his house and it's not quite right, and

1409
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:29,680
it's interesting it fits all that same stuff, but it's

1410
01:17:29,720 --> 01:17:31,439
a different shape and a different texture.

1411
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:40,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think those ones that seem different to the

1412
01:17:40,600 --> 01:17:46,520
way were you used to encountering the other somehow, and

1413
01:17:46,560 --> 01:17:48,520
I'm not sure how we get to it, but they

1414
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:53,359
might somehow offer us more of a potential way to

1415
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,760
understand this. Do you know, If I'm not you probably

1416
01:17:57,840 --> 01:17:59,359
you probably have heard about it. Do you know the

1417
01:17:59,439 --> 01:18:01,319
cow he An abduction story.

1418
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:02,560
Speaker 3: No, tell me about it.

1419
01:18:02,760 --> 01:18:04,479
Speaker 2: I won't go into the full details because we could

1420
01:18:04,479 --> 01:18:06,560
talk about it for the whole night. There's like, I

1421
01:18:06,600 --> 01:18:08,760
think he's out hunting or something and he has this

1422
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,760
ridiculous encounter with this super strange being which he kind

1423
01:18:12,760 --> 01:18:15,239
of gets abducted in this I think like see through

1424
01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:20,680
like cube, and he gets taken away to this super

1425
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,720
weird reality. He goes missing. In many ways, it's far

1426
01:18:23,840 --> 01:18:27,319
more interesting than the Travis Walton story and in fact

1427
01:18:27,399 --> 01:18:29,520
a great way to watch an over I mean, you

1428
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:30,840
can read it in a lot of the book. I

1429
01:18:30,880 --> 01:18:32,640
think it happened in the sixties, so it's a book

1430
01:18:32,640 --> 01:18:34,760
that or maybe in the early seventies, so it's in

1431
01:18:34,800 --> 01:18:37,720
a lot of those older UFO books. But a wonderful

1432
01:18:37,760 --> 01:18:39,920
place to watch that story if you just want to

1433
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:44,319
absorb it quickly, is in David Polide's Missing for One

1434
01:18:44,439 --> 01:18:47,399
one the UFO connection. I think it's called the third

1435
01:18:47,439 --> 01:18:50,079
Missing four one one documentary. Incidentally, I just watched the

1436
01:18:50,119 --> 01:18:54,439
fourth Missing four one one documentary. The other day and

1437
01:18:54,920 --> 01:18:57,119
enjoy it. I love all those documentaries, but I think

1438
01:18:57,159 --> 01:19:01,159
in many ways the Missing for one one the UFO connection,

1439
01:19:01,279 --> 01:19:04,640
is the most interesting, and it has that and Polides

1440
01:19:04,680 --> 01:19:09,279
takes that story very, very seriously. It's often dismissed because

1441
01:19:09,319 --> 01:19:12,880
it's so weird. But I tend to be like John Keel.

1442
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:15,760
I mean, I'm not saying I'm at a John Keell level,

1443
01:19:15,800 --> 01:19:18,359
but I tend to approach things the way Keel and

1444
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:22,720
Valad did, and they often saw those stranger stories perhaps

1445
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:26,560
holding more clues or more insight for us. And so

1446
01:19:26,680 --> 01:19:28,960
when you hear something like the Carl Higdon story about

1447
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,079
this hunter getting abducted and missing, and I think there

1448
01:19:31,159 --> 01:19:33,159
was actually I think people looked for him for it's

1449
01:19:33,199 --> 01:19:35,840
a very strange story. Anyway, again, I think far more

1450
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:39,880
interesting than the Travis Walton story. But yeah, I think

1451
01:19:39,880 --> 01:19:41,880
if you diget you should, and in fact, you should

1452
01:19:41,880 --> 01:19:43,880
watch Missing four one one in the UFO Connection. I

1453
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:46,239
think that's what it's called. It's the UFO Missing four

1454
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:48,680
one one UFO something. I think it's the UFO connection.

1455
01:19:48,760 --> 01:19:51,720
I think that's what it's called. It's a good documentary, fascinating.

1456
01:19:52,960 --> 01:19:53,720
Speaker 3: Is it better than Fire?

1457
01:19:53,760 --> 01:19:57,880
Speaker 2: In this guy with the fire in the scribes a

1458
01:19:57,920 --> 01:20:00,439
great horror movie, that sequence of him waking up and

1459
01:20:00,479 --> 01:20:05,439
having that, you know, the Transparaine over space and it's terrifying, and.

1460
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:07,479
Speaker 3: None of it's what Travis Walton said it was.

1461
01:20:07,760 --> 01:20:11,199
Speaker 2: No history. History has like these you know, space brothers

1462
01:20:11,239 --> 01:20:13,520
in it, these beautiful blonde people as well as Gray

1463
01:20:13,560 --> 01:20:17,640
ET's and looking through star windows and wandering around the spaceship.

1464
01:20:17,640 --> 01:20:20,399
Speaker 3: It's not like waking up Anger of Ships.

1465
01:20:20,479 --> 01:20:24,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, waking up in Et you know Texas Chainsaw massacre version,

1466
01:20:25,079 --> 01:20:28,680
like these potato headed beings, you know, torturing you on

1467
01:20:28,720 --> 01:20:30,880
a table, like, Yeah, it's a very different story.

1468
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,000
Speaker 3: I like actually and that one in Communion, they both

1469
01:20:34,039 --> 01:20:39,079
say that the Gray Aliens are wearing masks, which I

1470
01:20:39,119 --> 01:20:40,239
think we're weird.

1471
01:20:40,640 --> 01:20:44,159
Speaker 2: I think, I think, I think, I don't know that's

1472
01:20:44,199 --> 01:20:46,039
true literally, Like I know a lot of people like

1473
01:20:46,079 --> 01:20:48,359
to say, well, they might be in space suits or something.

1474
01:20:48,560 --> 01:20:51,720
But I think it's true. I think it's true metaphorically

1475
01:20:51,800 --> 01:20:55,239
or metaphysically. I think what we're, what they're what what

1476
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,880
any of these things present themselves to us? As I

1477
01:20:57,880 --> 01:20:59,800
think that is a mask. I think there might be

1478
01:20:59,840 --> 01:21:03,680
so And this is me totally spitballing. I think there

1479
01:21:03,760 --> 01:21:09,520
might be some genuine intelligence separate to us. But I

1480
01:21:09,560 --> 01:21:12,720
think when it engages with us for whatever reason, maybe

1481
01:21:13,000 --> 01:21:16,359
it just presents. Maybe it's just like a mirror reflects

1482
01:21:16,399 --> 01:21:18,600
back to us what we see. Well, maybe it's more

1483
01:21:18,640 --> 01:21:21,760
sophisticated than that. Maybe it, you know, maybe it no

1484
01:21:22,000 --> 01:21:25,880
understands our culture and understands, you know, our psychees and

1485
01:21:26,039 --> 01:21:30,079
invents its own way of presenting. However it works. I

1486
01:21:30,199 --> 01:21:33,039
do think that what we're seeing most of the time

1487
01:21:33,279 --> 01:21:35,800
is it what the phenomenon actually looks like. Again, whether

1488
01:21:35,840 --> 01:21:38,680
it's big Foot or UFOs or ghosts or fairies or whatever,

1489
01:21:39,039 --> 01:21:41,640
I think whatever it looks like is not what we're seeing.

1490
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:46,039
Speaker 3: I really like that that Patterson Gimblan documentary is coming out.

1491
01:21:46,079 --> 01:21:48,479
I don't you might be more in the loop on

1492
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:50,760
this than I am. But they were talking about how, yeah,

1493
01:21:50,760 --> 01:21:54,760
I'm excited that there may be footage of them putting

1494
01:21:54,760 --> 01:21:57,640
on the big Foot suit and the fact that people

1495
01:21:57,720 --> 01:22:01,640
are already shouting that it's not real. It's interesting. It's

1496
01:22:01,640 --> 01:22:06,680
got this weird Tyler Durden ess or like in Life

1497
01:22:06,720 --> 01:22:09,279
of Brian, where it's like you are all individuals like

1498
01:22:10,600 --> 01:22:14,199
there's nothing you can do now that you've you've created

1499
01:22:14,199 --> 01:22:18,039
this bigfoot video, and the details of the Patterson Gimlin

1500
01:22:18,239 --> 01:22:21,319
footage is so interesting. We've made a big foot costume.

1501
01:22:21,800 --> 01:22:24,439
I rented this camera. I forgot to return it, and

1502
01:22:24,479 --> 01:22:26,279
I still don't know how to operate it after a

1503
01:22:26,319 --> 01:22:31,159
couple of weeks. But also, there's bigfoot over there, and

1504
01:22:31,279 --> 01:22:33,920
he has a stride like a guy I've been confirmed

1505
01:22:33,920 --> 01:22:39,319
to know. Yeah, Boberonymous. I know someone who knows Bob Ranymous,

1506
01:22:39,359 --> 01:22:41,920
which is weird, and that's not related to anyone we know,

1507
01:22:42,159 --> 01:22:45,239
just like it's weird.

1508
01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:49,000
Speaker 2: But to be honest, I think Bobberonymous is telling the truth.

1509
01:22:49,079 --> 01:22:51,439
I mean personally, I think Bobberonymous is the man in

1510
01:22:51,479 --> 01:22:54,560
that suit. And I thought that for decades. I mean

1511
01:22:54,600 --> 01:22:56,600
when I was a kid, I thought Patterson Gimblin was

1512
01:22:56,640 --> 01:22:58,840
real because I'd say, like in search of and all

1513
01:22:58,840 --> 01:23:01,439
these early months to movie and was all excited. But

1514
01:23:02,359 --> 01:23:04,279
if I if I had a billion dollars now and

1515
01:23:04,319 --> 01:23:07,279
could double it on a bet, I would bet. I'm

1516
01:23:07,439 --> 01:23:10,000
confident enough that I would risk that billion dollars to

1517
01:23:10,039 --> 01:23:13,279
bet that the footage was was Boperonymous in a.

1518
01:23:13,319 --> 01:23:16,279
Speaker 3: Suit depends on the day and what music is playing

1519
01:23:16,319 --> 01:23:18,439
that I see that footage and he turned like Patty

1520
01:23:18,520 --> 01:23:22,039
turns back, and I believe it. I So many people

1521
01:23:22,039 --> 01:23:23,760
I know are like, it's obviously a guy in a suit,

1522
01:23:23,800 --> 01:23:27,560
and it's funny that it's taken this long. But the

1523
01:23:27,600 --> 01:23:33,159
weird stuff about that footage is that the originals lost there.

1524
01:23:33,199 --> 01:23:36,439
The copy that exists that everyone, the scan that we

1525
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:41,640
have currently was auctioned off in the drawer of a

1526
01:23:41,720 --> 01:23:47,880
filing cabinet from you know that that they sold to

1527
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,600
a company. It's so weird. Is Bob Gibblon the one

1528
01:23:51,600 --> 01:23:52,399
who's still around?

1529
01:23:52,880 --> 01:23:55,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Bob, Bob Gibblan is still in alive. Supposedly in

1530
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:59,119
that documentary we're talking about. Supposedly he's one of the

1531
01:23:59,159 --> 01:24:01,880
people who kind of of you know now says it

1532
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,960
was a hoax. I haven't seen the documentary. Yes, supposedly

1533
01:24:06,239 --> 01:24:08,239
that's what that's what people have seen it have said.

1534
01:24:08,239 --> 01:24:10,520
Who saw it? South By south By Southwest?

1535
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,960
Speaker 3: Okay, Well, you're more into the film festival group than

1536
01:24:14,000 --> 01:24:17,960
I am. I've been hearing about it, but I remember,

1537
01:24:18,359 --> 01:24:20,359
haven't There been two or three people who before they

1538
01:24:20,399 --> 01:24:23,319
died said that they were the Bigfoot in the Bigfoot series.

1539
01:24:23,439 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 2: I think so. I know Eronymous has been saying it

1540
01:24:25,720 --> 01:24:30,279
for decades now. And I remember some documentary or TV show,

1541
01:24:30,359 --> 01:24:34,039
like literally well over a decade ago, where it shows

1542
01:24:34,079 --> 01:24:37,800
the Paddy footage and then it shows Bob Iranum walking

1543
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:41,119
and astride. It's like, that's Paddy. You go to that,

1544
01:24:41,640 --> 01:24:43,640
and the fact that he knew them, and the fact

1545
01:24:43,720 --> 01:24:47,680
it just seems and it's as they got older too

1546
01:24:47,720 --> 01:24:49,439
and looked at that, people say things like you can

1547
01:24:49,520 --> 01:24:53,079
see the muscle structure underneath him. I've never been maybe

1548
01:24:53,159 --> 01:24:57,000
I'm blind or I don't understand biology. Well, whenever I've

1549
01:24:57,039 --> 01:24:59,760
looked at that, I've never seen the things that experts

1550
01:25:00,319 --> 01:25:02,960
who believe in Bigfoot tell me. There you can see

1551
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:04,840
the thigh, I muscle moving. I'm like, that's just I

1552
01:25:04,840 --> 01:25:07,479
don't know, Maybe that's patting a lot reflecting like it.

1553
01:25:08,119 --> 01:25:11,239
I've never I've literally long before this documentary which I

1554
01:25:11,239 --> 01:25:13,560
can't wait to see. Maybe maybe it's a total hoax,

1555
01:25:13,600 --> 01:25:17,239
the new documentary. But my point is, for decades I

1556
01:25:17,239 --> 01:25:19,119
have been unconvinced by that footage.

1557
01:25:19,880 --> 01:25:21,600
Speaker 3: See, I want it to be real so bad.

1558
01:25:22,159 --> 01:25:23,920
Speaker 2: I want it to be real too. But I know

1559
01:25:24,000 --> 01:25:30,720
it's not so no, I can't say I suspect.

1560
01:25:28,880 --> 01:25:34,319
Speaker 3: It, but it's so fascinating to me that, let's be honest,

1561
01:25:34,640 --> 01:25:36,880
if it wasn't Bigfoot, if it was a big squid

1562
01:25:36,920 --> 01:25:40,199
monster flopping around, the odds are so in the favor

1563
01:25:40,239 --> 01:25:42,960
of it not being a squid monster. The odds are,

1564
01:25:43,079 --> 01:25:45,199
you know, ninety nine to one that it wouldn't be real.

1565
01:25:45,800 --> 01:25:48,319
It's so interesting to me that now that you add

1566
01:25:48,359 --> 01:25:51,359
forty fifty years and then you have this group of

1567
01:25:51,399 --> 01:25:53,720
people who look at it, they look at a video

1568
01:25:53,760 --> 01:25:55,319
of them putting the suit on and they go, well,

1569
01:25:55,319 --> 01:25:56,760
that's a I that's fine.

1570
01:25:57,039 --> 01:25:57,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1571
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 3: I Actually I was fooling around with some AI stuff

1572
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:02,560
trying to get I was trying to make Patty fall over,

1573
01:26:03,199 --> 01:26:07,279
like the footage turns around majestically right into and it

1574
01:26:07,359 --> 01:26:11,000
kept turning Patty into a gorilla, and so I couldn't.

1575
01:26:11,039 --> 01:26:13,720
I couldn't. Now, I haven't used every AI program in

1576
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:15,960
the world, and I don't have this that kind of

1577
01:26:16,000 --> 01:26:20,640
access beyond consumer grade toys. But the fact that you

1578
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:24,640
can do that makes me think it's not quite time

1579
01:26:24,760 --> 01:26:27,199
for that footage to be one hundred percent fake. But

1580
01:26:27,279 --> 01:26:30,039
that people believe that it's fake already is so interesting

1581
01:26:30,079 --> 01:26:31,199
they haven't even seen it.

1582
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:34,840
Speaker 2: Well, because I think, I mean, I think it's cognitive dissonance.

1583
01:26:34,920 --> 01:26:37,840
I think it's when the facts hit your blissdom, you

1584
01:26:37,920 --> 01:26:41,439
double down even when that film comes out. I would.

1585
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:46,279
I mean, I'm guessing I think the the people who

1586
01:26:46,319 --> 01:26:49,960
still believe that Patty patterson Gimlin footage is actually of

1587
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:54,159
a Sasquatch. I suspect at least fifty percent of those people,

1588
01:26:54,319 --> 01:26:57,079
even after this film comes out, will still double down

1589
01:26:57,079 --> 01:27:01,039
that it's that it's a Sasquatch. Maybe more. And I

1590
01:27:01,079 --> 01:27:04,119
mean maybe that's why me showing my own cognitive dissonance

1591
01:27:04,159 --> 01:27:06,079
because I thought it was fake forever. So as soon

1592
01:27:06,119 --> 01:27:08,680
as the evidence comes along and says it's fake, I'm like, well,

1593
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:11,920
obviously it was fake. I mean, right, you know, I

1594
01:27:11,960 --> 01:27:13,880
don't know. I mean, I really want to see that.

1595
01:27:13,960 --> 01:27:16,760
I'm super excited about this documentary, like I really am.

1596
01:27:17,520 --> 01:27:19,399
Speaker 3: They did a Doctor Who a couple of years ago,

1597
01:27:20,079 --> 01:27:23,479
the new hyperwoke Doctor Who. There's some really good ones

1598
01:27:23,520 --> 01:27:28,640
in there. I'm not anti progressive, I really they did

1599
01:27:28,720 --> 01:27:33,039
one that's an interesting subject matter, where these guys pretend

1600
01:27:33,119 --> 01:27:35,800
to be a UFO podcast, and they get this group

1601
01:27:35,880 --> 01:27:38,479
together and then they try to get the doctor on

1602
01:27:38,600 --> 01:27:41,279
camera to confirm that aliens are not real, like you've

1603
01:27:41,319 --> 01:27:46,520
always been a hoaster, You've always and in modern politics,

1604
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:51,159
that's very true, like the idea that we spent all

1605
01:27:51,199 --> 01:27:54,800
this time going, there's those croaking toads on the side

1606
01:27:54,920 --> 01:27:58,680
going UFOs were never real and it's always been And

1607
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,680
then the government goes, well, maybe the tic TACs are real,

1608
01:28:01,760 --> 01:28:04,239
and maybe this footage comes from here, and then suddenly

1609
01:28:04,319 --> 01:28:06,760
new croaking tones come out and go, UFOs have you know,

1610
01:28:06,920 --> 01:28:10,600
they're why does it flip? UFOs have always been real?

1611
01:28:10,680 --> 01:28:14,520
And then UFOs were never real? What? Well?

1612
01:28:14,720 --> 01:28:18,039
Speaker 2: I think? I mean, I think that the New York

1613
01:28:18,119 --> 01:28:23,960
Times article in twenty seventeen that leaked a military video

1614
01:28:24,159 --> 01:28:28,319
of you know, the Nimetz carriers pilots engaging with this

1615
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:33,399
you know, tic tac. I think that that was joyfully

1616
01:28:34,800 --> 01:28:39,239
adopted by the UFO community. And I think you're right,

1617
01:28:39,439 --> 01:28:45,000
people who traditionally hadn't given the UFO phenomenon any credence

1618
01:28:45,079 --> 01:28:48,560
because it was a New York Times story started giving

1619
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:52,840
it credence. I suspect I don't know why, but I

1620
01:28:52,960 --> 01:28:59,920
suspect that was done very intentionally by forces within our

1621
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:03,720
own government, whether it was intelligence agencies or the military

1622
01:29:04,119 --> 01:29:06,600
or and I don't know what the reason is, but

1623
01:29:06,720 --> 01:29:10,119
I think that change in the narrative was intentionally crafted

1624
01:29:10,760 --> 01:29:14,239
for whatever reason, whether that's because UFOs really are real,

1625
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:18,479
or whether it's because they wanted you know, some wag

1626
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:22,119
the dog, you know, moment, or whether it's because they wanted,

1627
01:29:22,760 --> 01:29:25,720
you know, the potential to use this as you know,

1628
01:29:26,119 --> 01:29:28,720
as cover for other things. I have no idea why,

1629
01:29:29,439 --> 01:29:34,000
but the whole thing felt like a very intentionally planned

1630
01:29:34,079 --> 01:29:36,159
leak and roll out. Just the way it was done,

1631
01:29:36,199 --> 01:29:38,479
you know, it all seemed very controlled.

1632
01:29:39,840 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting that it's we're talk like I was saying,

1633
01:29:45,800 --> 01:29:49,680
the likelihood of Patty being real, the likelihood of there

1634
01:29:49,720 --> 01:29:53,279
being a little green man inside a flying object that

1635
01:29:53,319 --> 01:29:57,319
we can't determine what it is. It's it's more comforting

1636
01:29:57,399 --> 01:29:58,840
to think of it as an alien than it is

1637
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:03,720
like a Russian spy. And even I learned this recently.

1638
01:30:04,239 --> 01:30:07,800
My grandfather worked at the Hanford site in the seventies

1639
01:30:08,479 --> 01:30:11,920
and he doesn't believe in UFOs at all, but he

1640
01:30:13,119 --> 01:30:16,680
was there that summer that all the flying saucer or

1641
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:20,479
not flying saucers. UFOs were over the Hanford site for

1642
01:30:20,600 --> 01:30:23,520
no reason, and it was in all the papers. Now

1643
01:30:24,279 --> 01:30:27,039
what that actually was is probably far less exciting than

1644
01:30:27,079 --> 01:30:31,279
we think it is. But the fact that there's something

1645
01:30:31,359 --> 01:30:34,640
in that, there's always a certain amount of controlled push

1646
01:30:34,720 --> 01:30:38,119
into the media what it is is what I'm always

1647
01:30:38,199 --> 01:30:40,399
fascinated by because we still don't know.

1648
01:30:41,760 --> 01:30:44,600
Speaker 2: I mean, I suspect what the UAP footage is that

1649
01:30:44,720 --> 01:30:48,159
everybody's familiar with. Now, I suspect it's our technology. When

1650
01:30:48,199 --> 01:30:50,239
I say our technology, I mean the United States of

1651
01:30:50,239 --> 01:30:55,399
America's technology. And that probably interests me less as to

1652
01:30:55,680 --> 01:30:59,520
why the big push of that story, and again I

1653
01:30:59,560 --> 01:31:02,680
don't know why, but why it was channeled the way

1654
01:31:02,760 --> 01:31:07,279
it was to turn what essentially since the Conon Committee

1655
01:31:07,319 --> 01:31:12,680
pooh pooh UFOs in nineteen sixty nine, they essentially left

1656
01:31:12,800 --> 01:31:16,359
respectable conversation. It's not that they didn't become media stories

1657
01:31:16,399 --> 01:31:19,319
at the fiftieth anniversary of Roswell or you know, the

1658
01:31:19,560 --> 01:31:22,439
X files being a cool thing, or you know, any

1659
01:31:22,520 --> 01:31:24,159
of these kind of you know, pop up, you know,

1660
01:31:24,359 --> 01:31:28,279
human interest stories, but they never became something which was

1661
01:31:28,479 --> 01:31:32,600
instigating congressional hearings. Do you know what I mean? It

1662
01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:35,359
was never something that you that The New York Times

1663
01:31:35,479 --> 01:31:37,880
was running as a legitimate thing on the front cover.

1664
01:31:38,000 --> 01:31:40,840
It wasn't something that was being discussed by whether it

1665
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:43,880
was people in CNN or Tucker Carlson on Fox or whoever.

1666
01:31:44,840 --> 01:31:49,000
It became a genuine media circus, which hasn't gone away.

1667
01:31:49,239 --> 01:31:52,279
And now the conversation seems to have changed that this

1668
01:31:52,439 --> 01:31:54,960
is a respectable topic, and it hadn't been a respectable

1669
01:31:55,000 --> 01:31:58,680
topic maybe ever, but certainly since nineteen sixty nine. And

1670
01:31:59,439 --> 01:32:01,680
again it looked like it was an engineered release. So

1671
01:32:01,840 --> 01:32:03,760
that's what interests me. Again, I think the tic TAC

1672
01:32:03,800 --> 01:32:06,920
stuff is probably ours, But why the way it was

1673
01:32:07,039 --> 01:32:08,920
handled and pushed the way it was, I don't know.

1674
01:32:09,000 --> 01:32:10,760
I don't even want to sumisk because I don't know.

1675
01:32:11,720 --> 01:32:14,640
Speaker 3: So you ever notice how some of these are We're

1676
01:32:14,640 --> 01:32:19,439
talking about the evolution of this, and they're anachronistic. It's

1677
01:32:19,520 --> 01:32:23,119
like it's a lot harder to find Limerians and stuff.

1678
01:32:23,159 --> 01:32:25,560
I mean, Lamerians leak their way into every little sub

1679
01:32:25,920 --> 01:32:31,039
subgenre of there's people who say they communicate with them telepathically.

1680
01:32:31,119 --> 01:32:35,199
There's people, but there's there's different flavors, and they're kind

1681
01:32:35,199 --> 01:32:37,680
of flavors of the month, Like the Flatwoods Monster is

1682
01:32:37,680 --> 01:32:41,840
probably a dalek from doctor Who's there's so much connection

1683
01:32:42,039 --> 01:32:45,000
between those two things. And there's people think it's an

1684
01:32:45,039 --> 01:32:49,079
owl and a tree trunk, but that feels so of

1685
01:32:49,239 --> 01:32:54,000
its time. What if it turns out that they start trickling, Yes,

1686
01:32:54,159 --> 01:32:56,760
these are you, They are actually of another world, like

1687
01:32:56,920 --> 01:32:58,920
like it shows up on like the New York Post.

1688
01:32:59,039 --> 01:33:02,319
And then finally, what if it turned out they were

1689
01:33:02,399 --> 01:33:05,199
the tall Norwegian people with the white hair and they

1690
01:33:05,279 --> 01:33:10,119
just look like us. How not interesting would that? Or

1691
01:33:10,159 --> 01:33:13,720
the Darrows or something? And you're like, that be fantastic time.

1692
01:33:14,760 --> 01:33:16,520
Speaker 2: I imagine how good it would be if we this.

1693
01:33:16,880 --> 01:33:18,399
I mean, I don't know how why that would make

1694
01:33:18,439 --> 01:33:19,800
me so happy, but it would if all of a

1695
01:33:19,840 --> 01:33:23,079
sudden we got like a defense department in a press

1696
01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:26,920
conference and they said, Okay, we know these things are

1697
01:33:26,960 --> 01:33:29,800
called the darrow and there's also they're the bad ones

1698
01:33:29,840 --> 01:33:32,600
in the terror and they come from beneath the surface

1699
01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:34,479
of this earth. You know the funny thing. I jest

1700
01:33:34,640 --> 01:33:38,479
with that, But the discussion that these things are here

1701
01:33:38,840 --> 01:33:45,039
already has become a genuine talking point amongst the people

1702
01:33:45,720 --> 01:33:49,239
who were essentially, you know, the main speakers or the

1703
01:33:49,319 --> 01:33:53,039
main spokesman for disclosure. This story is coming up a

1704
01:33:53,319 --> 01:33:56,920
lot if you look at academic papers from people like

1705
01:33:57,039 --> 01:34:01,840
hal Putov, who who kind of took the ultra terrestrial

1706
01:34:02,439 --> 01:34:06,479
hypothesis of John Keel and Ivan Sanderson before him, and

1707
01:34:06,680 --> 01:34:08,359
essentially wrote a paper, I don't know when it was,

1708
01:34:08,399 --> 01:34:10,840
maybe three years ago now saying we have to really

1709
01:34:10,880 --> 01:34:13,520
think about these things. Maybe they're you know, they're not

1710
01:34:13,840 --> 01:34:17,680
from out there, they're from here, right that, and that

1711
01:34:17,920 --> 01:34:20,640
is very much Shaverrism. There was a paper from Harvard

1712
01:34:20,680 --> 01:34:23,880
I think two years ago where they said the same thing,

1713
01:34:24,439 --> 01:34:27,640
and they talked about different historical antecedents and one of

1714
01:34:27,720 --> 01:34:30,439
them was the Shaver mystery. Like Shaver got a paragraph

1715
01:34:30,560 --> 01:34:32,920
in this thing from Harvard, not as like, not in

1716
01:34:33,000 --> 01:34:35,319
a literary paper, but is in a what are the

1717
01:34:35,479 --> 01:34:38,840
where are these things from? And then you get it.

1718
01:34:39,039 --> 01:34:42,239
I've heard again and again now like Congress people, you know,

1719
01:34:42,319 --> 01:34:44,640
whistleblow as other people say, well, these things are probably

1720
01:34:44,680 --> 01:34:48,239
here already. Major speakers in the disclosure movement, Well, maybe

1721
01:34:48,279 --> 01:34:50,880
they've got bases beneath the sea. Maybe they've already got

1722
01:34:50,920 --> 01:34:53,079
bases on Earth? Who does that? It sounds like Richard

1723
01:34:53,119 --> 01:34:54,800
Shaver and Raymond Palmer is who the devil?

1724
01:34:54,880 --> 01:34:57,520
Speaker 3: That sounds like picturing Donald Trump on his last day

1725
01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,399
just gone. They're called the Darrow.

1726
01:35:00,680 --> 01:35:01,560
Speaker 2: Oh my god.

1727
01:35:03,119 --> 01:35:05,359
Speaker 3: You see, millions of years ago the Earth had a

1728
01:35:05,479 --> 01:35:09,079
giant shell around it. We have evidence of this and

1729
01:35:09,239 --> 01:35:12,760
half you need to stop eating food that has been

1730
01:35:12,800 --> 01:35:17,880
exposed to the sun. I have negotiated a contract. The

1731
01:35:18,000 --> 01:35:20,159
roll Ads will be coming to the consumer market.

1732
01:35:20,439 --> 01:35:24,760
Speaker 2: There's there's like a science fiction social political satire to

1733
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:28,199
be made with the US government making a Darrow announcement.

1734
01:35:28,560 --> 01:35:30,600
That would be amazing. How good would that be?

1735
01:35:31,079 --> 01:35:34,079
Speaker 3: The eloys or you know, they need Canada, So we're

1736
01:35:34,119 --> 01:35:39,680
gonna split it up. Need some bug eyed creature from

1737
01:35:39,720 --> 01:35:41,760
the Black Lagoon is going to be the new Senator.

1738
01:35:42,439 --> 01:35:44,560
That it all comes from somewhere. So it's a funny

1739
01:35:44,600 --> 01:35:47,760
thought that it would it would come back like it

1740
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:49,479
would devolve back into the originals.

1741
01:35:50,199 --> 01:35:52,159
Speaker 2: Literally. See now, I don't ever think we're going to

1742
01:35:52,199 --> 01:35:54,239
get the Darrow announcement, as happy as I would be

1743
01:35:54,399 --> 01:35:57,479
if we did. But I think we're getting close to

1744
01:35:57,600 --> 01:36:00,279
this story. I mean, the narrative of them already being

1745
01:36:00,319 --> 01:36:04,319
here in bases the narrative or in the Halpooto's paper.

1746
01:36:04,399 --> 01:36:06,760
Maybe they've always been here. Maybe they've been our gods.

1747
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:09,880
Maybe they're a space fearing civilization that got stranded here.

1748
01:36:10,319 --> 01:36:13,760
All of this stuff is very shaveriant, but who knows.

1749
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,000
I don't know. Anyway, Man, it's been It's been so

1750
01:36:16,199 --> 01:36:17,920
much fun talking to you. I need to get you

1751
01:36:17,960 --> 01:36:18,880
on more often to do this.

1752
01:36:19,000 --> 01:36:21,880
Speaker 3: It's just I know, I had five ideas and I

1753
01:36:21,920 --> 01:36:24,039
had to shoot them all out at once, Matt.

1754
01:36:24,399 --> 01:36:26,399
Speaker 2: But it was fun and we went like literally like

1755
01:36:26,600 --> 01:36:27,479
forty minutes.

1756
01:36:27,239 --> 01:36:30,800
Speaker 3: More than I usually go, and I have another forty

1757
01:36:30,880 --> 01:36:31,039
in me.

1758
01:36:31,680 --> 01:36:33,600
Speaker 2: I'm sure, mate, we could totally do it. We'll get

1759
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:35,680
you back and talk more recently. Do you want to

1760
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:38,880
direct people towards where they can see any of your

1761
01:36:38,960 --> 01:36:44,279
previous films, where they can where they can look at

1762
01:36:44,359 --> 01:36:49,880
the upcoming Phil Hartman thing. And by the way, I

1763
01:36:49,920 --> 01:36:51,920
don't think it's in the YouTube notes, which have already

1764
01:36:51,920 --> 01:36:53,800
gone out, but if you send me any link out

1765
01:36:53,840 --> 01:36:55,880
the links you want in the YouTube notes, I do

1766
01:36:56,079 --> 01:36:59,079
have your Fred Crisman short film where people can watch

1767
01:36:59,119 --> 01:37:01,720
it if they go and look at that. But if

1768
01:37:01,800 --> 01:37:03,479
after the show, you send me any of the links

1769
01:37:03,520 --> 01:37:05,560
you're giving out now, I will make sure they're in

1770
01:37:05,640 --> 01:37:07,520
the show notes that go out on all the podcast

1771
01:37:07,600 --> 01:37:09,399
platforms so people will be able to click through to them.

1772
01:37:09,680 --> 01:37:11,399
But if people don't want to click through, or they're

1773
01:37:11,399 --> 01:37:13,800
too wazy to click through, show throw out some of

1774
01:37:14,000 --> 01:37:15,159
rls just for the listeners.

1775
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:20,359
Speaker 3: Fred Cristman dot com uh is where you're going to

1776
01:37:20,399 --> 01:37:23,319
find a link to the Fred Christman movie. You can

1777
01:37:23,399 --> 01:37:27,079
also look them up on Wikipedia. He's a fantastic source

1778
01:37:27,159 --> 01:37:31,920
of craziness. We've got a YouTube. It's Brian Shickley. It's

1779
01:37:31,920 --> 01:37:34,079
spelled how you see it on here. I always try

1780
01:37:34,119 --> 01:37:37,239
to spell it my own name, right stood guard shocker.

1781
01:37:38,960 --> 01:37:41,880
I we're making the English versions. This is done by

1782
01:37:41,880 --> 01:37:45,800
a German friend. But this is all ink work that

1783
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:51,319
I've been doing, and it's intentionally it's intentionally hyper vintage.

1784
01:37:51,399 --> 01:37:55,159
It's supposed to look like like I have all these

1785
01:37:55,239 --> 01:37:59,760
old tales from the crypt comics and been working really

1786
01:37:59,800 --> 01:38:02,319
hard to kind of bring back the vintage look. So

1787
01:38:04,840 --> 01:38:08,119
here's what I've been doing. This is one about it's

1788
01:38:08,159 --> 01:38:11,600
kind of an immigration story. It's kind of a story

1789
01:38:11,600 --> 01:38:16,840
about second chances in life. And but the art I've

1790
01:38:16,840 --> 01:38:19,960
been having a lot of fun doing bringing bringing pulp back.

1791
01:38:20,600 --> 01:38:22,600
If that's if that's the one thing I do before

1792
01:38:22,640 --> 01:38:27,279
I die, I'm gonna bring pulp back. And uh, I

1793
01:38:27,319 --> 01:38:32,960
got one in particular right here. This is the first

1794
01:38:33,039 --> 01:38:35,520
drawing I ever did for This is an alt cover

1795
01:38:35,680 --> 01:38:37,880
I did and I got to draw myself being forced

1796
01:38:37,920 --> 01:38:43,680
to sweep the floors. And I'm really proud of that. Anyway,

1797
01:38:43,720 --> 01:38:47,479
It's really i haven't been published to this degree before,

1798
01:38:47,479 --> 01:38:49,199
and I'm really proud of how that art came out.

1799
01:38:49,359 --> 01:38:50,720
That's the stud Guard shocker.

1800
01:38:51,000 --> 01:38:51,960
Speaker 2: And where do people get that?

1801
01:38:53,319 --> 01:38:56,359
Speaker 3: You can look it up Happy Hour, h e pp

1802
01:38:56,680 --> 01:39:01,239
y Hour. It's uh my friend using musician and a writer.

1803
01:39:02,279 --> 01:39:04,800
He's really really talented. You can see that on Google

1804
01:39:04,840 --> 01:39:05,079
if you.

1805
01:39:05,079 --> 01:39:08,479
Speaker 2: Look it up. Well, man, I'm gonna get you as

1806
01:39:08,520 --> 01:39:10,720
soon as the show finishes to send me a few

1807
01:39:11,039 --> 01:39:13,279
U r L links or things that I can that

1808
01:39:13,399 --> 01:39:15,199
I can put in the show notes that go out

1809
01:39:15,199 --> 01:39:17,520
and all the audio episodes. Man, it was a great

1810
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:19,600
joy talking to you like it always is. Thanks so

1811
01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:21,199
much for coming back on the show.

1812
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:24,680
Speaker 3: Thank you for letting me bring a puppet shut.

1813
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:29,520
Speaker 2: Me the puppet one more time. Is he there? Hey,

1814
01:39:30,399 --> 01:39:32,920
we can't we can't go. We can't say good night

1815
01:39:33,000 --> 01:39:33,640
without the puppet.

1816
01:39:34,119 --> 01:39:37,399
Speaker 3: This is called a live hand puppet, meaning I get

1817
01:39:37,439 --> 01:39:37,760
to do this.

1818
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:45,039
Speaker 2: Ah nice And what's his name? One more time?

1819
01:39:45,720 --> 01:39:50,520
Speaker 3: H Graham Crackers. He's the spokesman for nes Cocaine, Colombia's

1820
01:39:50,560 --> 01:39:53,960
biggest selling coffee esque products.

1821
01:39:54,600 --> 01:39:57,039
Speaker 2: Well, Graham Crackers, thank you so much for joining me tonight.

1822
01:39:57,119 --> 01:39:59,640
And Brian Shickley, A massive thank you to you for

1823
01:39:59,720 --> 01:40:01,880
joining tonight. It was a great show and I had

1824
01:40:01,880 --> 01:40:02,359
a lot of fun.

1825
01:40:02,760 --> 01:40:03,520
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me.

1826
01:40:04,279 --> 01:40:06,319
Speaker 2: And until I talk to you again, Brian, which hopefully

1827
01:40:06,319 --> 01:40:08,439
will be in the very near future, and until I

1828
01:40:08,520 --> 01:40:10,399
talk to everybody else out there, which will be the

1829
01:40:10,479 --> 01:40:15,119
same weird time, which is Thursday's nine pm Central, every week,

1830
01:40:15,319 --> 01:40:21,359
Same weird network, the Untold Radio Network. Please keep it weird.