Speaker 1: This episode MA contained content of a graphic nature, including
Speaker 1: descriptions of physical and sexual violence against adults, children, and animals.
Speaker 1: Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 2: Hi, this is Tanya. Hi, this is Shannon, and we
Speaker 2: are Crimes.
Speaker 1: And Consequences, a hardcore true crime podcast.
Speaker 2: Hey Shannon, Hey Tanya. You sounds so far away. Then
Speaker 2: how are you doing?
Speaker 1: I am mentally far away, just getting ready for the
Speaker 1: holidays and making my list and checking it twice.
Speaker 3: And oh yeah, that this mid decem madness of like,
Speaker 3: especially if you're hosting people. So you got your menu
Speaker 3: and then you got the gifts and you got the decoration.
Speaker 3: It's madness, it is, and it's all good.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: I'm starting a new job. That dad is so crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's you know, I had to give notice at
Speaker 1: my job and it's just.
Speaker 2: Been a lot.
Speaker 3: So it's a whirlwind in a new year's coming. It's
Speaker 3: going to be a year of the horse in the
Speaker 3: Chinese calendar. That's exciting the horse. So yeah, oh, and
Speaker 3: I wanted to tell you before we get started, because
Speaker 3: I do want to hear your story, natch. Really, but
Speaker 3: for Thanksgiving, Tanya had brought me over a plate she
Speaker 3: had hosted, and I am so food motivated.
Speaker 2: So I was asking her what side er.
Speaker 3: Menu, and she told me, and she's like, I'll save
Speaker 3: you a plate, and she did and she brought it
Speaker 3: over and then her and her daughter had made some
Speaker 3: apple jam or apple preserves. Let's tell you, Tanya, you
Speaker 3: and Ursula, Well that was so good. It was kiss
Speaker 3: I have carbs are my heroine, right, yes, if in
Speaker 3: another world I'm bent over with a bagel in my hand,
Speaker 3: a half eaten bagel, just out of it. Thank you,
Speaker 3: my friend, you are welcome. So yes, very good, very good. Now, girl,
Speaker 3: tell me what story you go?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? So yeah, Before I get into it,
Speaker 1: I would just like to say hello to Rose. She
Speaker 1: works with my husband, Hi Rose, and I just wanted
Speaker 1: to give her a little shout out. She's one of
Speaker 1: our newest fans. But I would also like to remind
Speaker 1: everyone to hit the subscriber follow button on whatever you're
Speaker 1: listening to. And this story is a local story. It
Speaker 1: happened in Dearborn Heights and it's just extremely, extremely sad,
Speaker 1: so as all of our stories.
Speaker 2: Yes, all right, I'm check that box, but sure it's sad.
Speaker 2: Check it's tragic.
Speaker 1: Check you know so. At first glance, nothing about Dearborn
Speaker 1: Heights seems extraordinary. The houses on Runyon Street do not
Speaker 1: announce themselves. They sit close together, modest aging, their facades,
Speaker 1: softened by time and neglect. In summer, the lawns grow
Speaker 1: uneven and stubborn. In winter, the wind moves through the
Speaker 1: gaps in chain link fences like a warning no one
Speaker 1: has learned to hear. This is not a street that
Speaker 1: expects to be remembered. But in the early morning hours
Speaker 1: of September twenty one, twenty sixteen, that house became ground
Speaker 1: zero for a tragedy that would shock a region, expose
Speaker 1: systemic blind spots in the justice system, and raise one
Speaker 1: of the most troubling questions in American crimes. What happens
Speaker 1: when a convicted killer walks free and then commits murder again.
Speaker 1: This is the story of Gregory Green, a man whose
Speaker 1: capacity for violence was demonstrated once and tragically again. Nothing
Speaker 1: about Gregory Green's criminal history is subtle. In nineteen ninety two,
Speaker 1: he strangled his wife. She was pregnant and her name
Speaker 1: was Tanya. According to court records, he pleaded no contest
Speaker 1: to second degree murder in her death. The details preserved
Speaker 1: in court records and police summaries are clinical in the
Speaker 1: way violence often becomes once it's processed by institutions. Second
Speaker 1: degree murder, domestic dispute, cause of death, strangulation. But strangulation
Speaker 1: is not impulsive violence. It is not a single blow
Speaker 1: thrown in anger. It's sustained. It requires proximity, pressure, and
Speaker 1: time long enough for the victim to struggle long enough
Speaker 1: to understand what is happening, long enough for the perpetrator
Speaker 1: to stop and choose not to. Gregory Green was convicted
Speaker 1: and sentenced to fifteen to twenty five years in prison.
Speaker 1: At the time, the sentence was received as appropriate. There
Speaker 1: was no public outcry, no sense that justice had failed.
Speaker 1: The system did what it was designed to do. It
Speaker 1: removed a violent man from society and placed him behind
Speaker 1: concrete and steel. The story could have ended there, but
Speaker 1: prisons do not end stories. They pause them. By the
Speaker 1: mid two thousands, Michigan's prison system was under pressure overcrowding,
Speaker 1: budget constraints, and a growing emphasis on rehabilitation shaped parole
Speaker 1: decisions across the state. Risk assessments became formulas, violence became data.
Speaker 1: Human behavior was reduced to probability. Gregory Green was not
Speaker 1: a disciplinary problem behind bars, he completed required programs, He
Speaker 1: maintained acceptable conduct. He aged out of the demographic most
Speaker 1: statistically associated with impulsive violence. On paper, he improved, and paper,
Speaker 1: in the end, is what parole boards rely on. In
Speaker 1: April two thousand and eight, after serving approximately sixteen years
Speaker 1: for the murder of his first wife, Gregory was released.
Speaker 1: He had been denied parole four times prior, mainly due
Speaker 1: to concerns over the nature of his violence and apparently
Speaker 1: absence of remorse. However, he was eventually released due to
Speaker 1: being a model prisoner, and he had letters of support
Speaker 1: submitted to the parole board from a pastor and family members.
Speaker 1: There was no public notice, no community warning, no press conference,
Speaker 1: just a man stepping back into the world, but the
Speaker 1: crimes that would define his legacy were yet to come.
Speaker 1: Upon release, Gregory met Faith Johnson, the daughter of a
Speaker 1: local pastor. Friends would later describe her as warm response
Speaker 1: devoted to her children. She was working, surviving, building a
Speaker 1: life in a city that rarely made survival easy, and
Speaker 1: when Gregory met her, he didn't introduce himself as a murderer.
Speaker 1: He introduced himself as someone who had paid his debt.
Speaker 1: The language of redemption is seductive. It allows people, especially
Speaker 1: people who want to believe in good outcomes, to imagine
Speaker 1: that time alone can sand down the sharpest edges of violence.
Speaker 1: Faith believed him. They got married. They built a family.
Speaker 1: Faith brought two older children into the marriage, nineteen year
Speaker 1: old Chadney Allen and seventeen year old Kara Allen, and
Speaker 1: then together Faith and Gregory had two daughters, five year
Speaker 1: old Coy Green and four year old Kayley Green. Neighbors
Speaker 1: described them as quiet, hard working people. In the months
Speaker 1: before the murders, friends saw nothing outwardly alarming, but private violence,
Speaker 1: as so often happens, doesn't always reveal.
Speaker 2: Itself to outsiders.
Speaker 1: Faith had previously filed for divorce, and records show she
Speaker 1: had sought a personal protection order in twenty thirteen due
Speaker 1: to troubling behavior by Gregory, a petition that was denied
Speaker 1: under then existing standards of evidence. Still, despite past dangers
Speaker 1: and attempts to seek protection, the family remained together until
Speaker 1: the early morning of September twenty one, twenty sixteen. To outsiders,
Speaker 1: there was nothing remarkable about this family. They looked like
Speaker 1: thousands of other families navigating blended households and financial pressure.
Speaker 1: Despite past danger and attempts to seek protection. Like I said,
Speaker 1: the family remained together later, though neighbors would recall tension,
Speaker 1: raised voices, doors closing too hard, an atmosphere that felt heavy.
Speaker 1: But domestic violence rarely announces itself in ways that feel
Speaker 1: actionable to outsiders. Communities, particularly in cities like Detroit, are
Speaker 1: conditioned not to interfere. Police involvement carries its own risks.
Speaker 1: Silence becomes a form of survival, and so the moments passed.
Speaker 1: On September twenty first, twenty sixteen, It's early morning, before daylight,
Speaker 1: and inside the Green home, a quiet violence unfolded. At
Speaker 1: around one fifteen am. Gregory Green called nine one one
Speaker 1: and calmly reported that he had killed his family. When
Speaker 1: officers arrived, he was waiting on his front porch and
Speaker 1: was immediately taken into custody. Inside the home, investigators found
Speaker 1: a scene both methodical and disturbing. Green's two biological daughters,
Speaker 1: coy H five and Kaylee four, were dead upstairs. Autopsies
Speaker 1: showed they had been killed by by carbon monoxide poisoning.
Speaker 1: Authorities found evidence a car in the garage had been
Speaker 1: rigged to fill with exhaust and a plastic tube connected
Speaker 1: to it before The children's bodies were later removed and
Speaker 1: put back inside the home. In the basement, his two stepchildren,
Speaker 1: nineteen year old Chadney and seventeen year old Kara, had
Speaker 1: been shot execution style. His wife, Faith Green, was found
Speaker 1: bound with duct tape and zip ties, cut with a
Speaker 1: box cutter, and shot in the foot. Officers described her
Speaker 1: as conscious but critically injured when they entered. The efficiency
Speaker 1: and brutality of the killings shocked even seasoned investigators. These
Speaker 1: were not random acts of rage. They were executions, According
Speaker 1: to the medical examiner's report. Graory bound and gagged his
Speaker 1: wife first and sat her down on the basement couch.
Speaker 1: He then shot her in the foot and slashed her
Speaker 1: across the face several times with a box cutter. Then
Speaker 1: he brought a step children, Kara and Chadney, to the
Speaker 1: basement where Faith was. There, he forced Chadney to tie
Speaker 1: his sister's wrists with white zip ties and duct tape. Afterward,
Speaker 1: Gregory bound Chadney in the same manner and put him
Speaker 1: on the floor next to his sister. He then executed
Speaker 1: both teens while their mother was forced to watch. Chadney,
Speaker 1: who was six foot one and two hundred pounds, he
Speaker 1: was wearing pajamas. He also had abrasions on his face
Speaker 1: and right foot. His thighs and feet were also bound
Speaker 1: with duct tape. He had been shot in the left
Speaker 1: ear and twice in the back besides her wrists. Kara,
Speaker 1: who was five 't five and one hundred and fourteen pounds,
Speaker 1: was bound at the thighs and ankles with duct tape.
Speaker 1: She had been shot in the top of the head
Speaker 1: and twice in the back. Each child lost their life
Speaker 1: in a different way, but all understood the violence of
Speaker 1: the same man. They were grandchildren, siblings, teenagers with lives
Speaker 1: ahead of them, and children just beginning to understand the world.
Speaker 1: Their deaths were not just statistics, they were futures stolen.
Speaker 1: After the killings, Faith Green survived physically and emotionally scarred.
Speaker 1: At Gregory's sentencing hearing, she delivered a harrowing statement that
Speaker 1: reverberated far beyond the courtroom walls. Standing before Judge Dana Hathaway,
Speaker 1: Faith expressed a grief that was intimate and searing. Quote,
Speaker 1: there's no punishment that fits the crime. She said, not
Speaker 1: even torture and death would be justice. Your justice will
Speaker 1: come when you burn in hell for all eternity for
Speaker 1: murdering four innocent children. End quote. Her words were a
Speaker 1: rare public articulation of personal trauma, Raw, earnest and devastating.
Speaker 1: She continued quote, you are a con artist, You are
Speaker 1: a monster. You are a devil in disguise. She conveyed
Speaker 1: the endearing emotional toll, explaining that the horror had altered
Speaker 1: her life in ways that might never heal. When news
Speaker 1: broke that the suspect was a previously convicted murderer, one
Speaker 1: who had killed his pregnant wife decades earlier, the story
Speaker 1: changed shape. This was no longer just a crime.
Speaker 2: It was a failure.
Speaker 1: One of the most anguished questions that followed the crimes
Speaker 1: was not about motive. It was about how could this happen?
Speaker 2: Twice?
Speaker 1: The question shifted from what happened to how was this
Speaker 1: allowed to happen? Gregory Green had not hidden his past.
Speaker 1: The system had known exactly who he was. He had
Speaker 1: already served sixteen years in prison for murdering his first wife.
Speaker 1: He had been denied parole multiple times before he was released.
Speaker 1: Then he married the daughter of a pastor who had
Speaker 1: advocated for his relief. Yet despite this history and multiple
Speaker 1: warning signs, including domestic trouble and worse violings, Green was
Speaker 1: free to live with his family and ultimately kill again.
Speaker 1: This case forced advocates and officials to revisit how parole
Speaker 1: decisions are made, how evidence of past lethal violence is weighed,
Speaker 1: and how domestic violence often escalates without effective intervention. In
Speaker 1: the wake of the murders, Wayne County Prosecutor Kim Worthy said, quote,
Speaker 1: there is nothing that better illustrates the silence of violence
Speaker 1: than this case. It was a confluence of events that
Speaker 1: led to the deaths of four beautiful children. End quote.
Speaker 1: The sentiment underscored a sobering truth. Violence does not announce
Speaker 1: itself all the time, but when it's already killed once,
Speaker 1: it deserves to be taken seriously. In early twoenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: Greg pleaded guilty to four counts of second degree murder, torture,
Speaker 1: assault with intent to do great bodily harm, and a
Speaker 1: felony firearms violation. He admitted wrongdoing in the deaths of Coi, Kaylee, Kara,
Speaker 1: and Chadney, and the torture and attempted murder of Faith.
Speaker 1: Under a plea agreement, Green was sentenced to forty seven
Speaker 1: to one hundred and two years in prison, with eligibility
Speaker 1: for parole not until he is in his nineties, so
Speaker 1: effectively a life term. The sentence reflected not only the
Speaker 1: brutality of the crime, but also a belated acknowledgment of
Speaker 1: the risk he posed.
Speaker 2: Faith.
Speaker 1: Green's life carries on under the weight of incomprehensible loss.
Speaker 1: She has spoken publicly about migraines, nightmares, and emotional scars
Speaker 1: that will never fully fade, realities that extend beyond any
Speaker 1: prison sentence. Neighbours remember the children as a vibrant and
Speaker 1: beloved community. Members organized memorials, Friends recalled smiles and birthdays
Speaker 1: that should still be happening. The tragedy left a mark
Speaker 1: not only on a family, but on how a community
Speaker 1: thinks about domestic violence, parole policy, and what second chances
Speaker 1: really cost when they go tragically wrong. Gregory Green will
Speaker 1: never walk free again. But this story is not just
Speaker 1: about punishment. It's about the way we weigh hope against evidence,
Speaker 1: rehabilitation against risk, and optimism against history. When a life
Speaker 1: is crossed, the darkest threshold once should the system trust
Speaker 1: it will never cross it again. Faith Green survived, her
Speaker 1: children did not. Their names, Coy, Kaylee, Chadney, Kara are
Speaker 1: not just headlines. They were young lives, full of promise,
Speaker 1: erased in a moment of deliberate violence by a man
Speaker 1: the system had once released. And the question that remains
Speaker 1: heavy and uncomforting is this how many warnings have to
Speaker 1: become tragedies before we learn to listen. This is not
Speaker 1: a story about monsters. Gregory Green did not evade the system.
Speaker 1: He complied with it. He completed its requirements, He met
Speaker 1: its thresholds, and he was released according to its logic.
Speaker 1: That is what makes this case unbearable. The danger was known,
Speaker 1: the violence was documented, The outcome was predictable. Today, Runyon
Speaker 1: Street looks like any other Detroit block. Children ride bikes,
Speaker 1: people mow lawns. Life continues, but places remember, They remember
Speaker 1: in ways. Humans don't always articulate in the way silence settles,
Speaker 1: in the way neighbors avoid looking too long at a
Speaker 1: house they know you well. Some stories do not end,
Speaker 1: they simply stop being told. Now, Gregory Green will die
Speaker 1: in prison. That is the legal conclusion, but the moral
Speaker 1: conclusion remains unresolved. How many warning signs are enough, how
Speaker 1: many lives must be lost before pattern outweighs optimism. This
Speaker 1: was not fate, This was policy, and policy, unlike fate,
Speaker 1: can be changed. The question is whether anyone will change it.
Speaker 1: And that my friend.
Speaker 2: Tanya, my god.
Speaker 3: Now the nineties, right, So he kills his Tanya, his
Speaker 3: wife or his okay, his wife and their baby in utero,
Speaker 3: and he gets what seven to fifteen years now.
Speaker 1: As I mentioned, sixteen to twenty five.
Speaker 3: Oh, sixteen to twenty five, thank you, so he served
Speaker 3: fifteen and now sixteen to twenty five. That kind of
Speaker 3: does seem like I think of life expand even though
Speaker 3: we can live to be a hundred, you know, ninety,
Speaker 3: but a thirty year sentence for taking a life you
Speaker 3: know the bulk, Okay, I can kind of. But what
Speaker 3: he was able to get out and prey on a
Speaker 3: woman who uses you know, who lives probably I don't
Speaker 3: know faith, but it sounds like a woman who walks
Speaker 3: by faith and she're a daughter of the preacher. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so she's gonna walk her talk, yeah, and I should.
Speaker 1: He wants to see the good in people, you know,
Speaker 1: the being able to have a redemption like you know,
Speaker 1: people deserve a chance, people deserve the opportunity to redeem themselves.
Speaker 1: So I'm sure he was a redemption story.
Speaker 3: You know, she probably wanted to help him be the
Speaker 3: hero of his own story. As you know, a lot
Speaker 3: of people men and women do for their partners that
Speaker 3: aren't very good for them. They in whatever, I don't
Speaker 3: think like for him to be on parole, so he
Speaker 3: has no remorse, and this is why he gets denied
Speaker 3: four times. But what I find so wild is when
Speaker 3: Faith was filing her restraining order, she couldn't get one.
Speaker 3: A past murderer, his record alone, his violence isn't my
Speaker 3: free pass to get a restraining order.
Speaker 1: I know just from being a lawyer. I don't do
Speaker 1: a lot of criminal cases and stuff, but I have been,
Speaker 1: you know, adjacent to people who have needed the personal
Speaker 1: protection order and stuff. And the law says you have
Speaker 1: to be an immediate danger. So if you can't show
Speaker 1: immediate danger, and what exactly does that mean, then your
Speaker 1: ppo might not be granted. And I tell people all
Speaker 1: the time, the law is reactive, it's not proactive. And
Speaker 1: that's one of the problems of the story is that Okay,
Speaker 1: we had the reaction. He killed his wife, he went
Speaker 1: to prison, that was the proper reaction. Only now he
Speaker 1: gets let out and there's really nothing done to be proactive.
Speaker 1: And like you said, she goes and tries to get
Speaker 1: this protection order. And the fact that I'm married to
Speaker 1: somebody that murdered his wife and I'm his wife, now,
Speaker 1: like that should be.
Speaker 2: Enough, right, thank you.
Speaker 1: I don't hear what he did, right, Like, I don't
Speaker 1: care if he put a gun in her face or
Speaker 1: if he just said I'm gonna kill you bitch. What
Speaker 1: is the immediate danger? I think the immediate danger is
Speaker 1: living with a man that killed his wife, and now
Speaker 1: you're exhibiting violence toward me.
Speaker 2: Huh huh No, that's I mean.
Speaker 1: I feel terrible because to me, the story, you know,
Speaker 1: faith sounded like you said, she lives in faith. I'm
Speaker 1: sure she believes in I'm sure she's a Christian, and
Speaker 1: she believes in people trying to find the good in people.
Speaker 1: And she loved him, you know, she had kids with him,
Speaker 1: They had this life. And I know people that have
Speaker 1: been in domestic violence relationships like, okay, it'll never happen again.
Speaker 1: You know, you get an apology, You get a sincere
Speaker 1: what seems to be apology. You know, I promise I'll
Speaker 1: do better next time. You know, I'm sure she wanted
Speaker 1: to believe him.
Speaker 2: You don't stay and try to work it out.
Speaker 3: You don't drop the divorce to try again if you
Speaker 3: don't really want it right or you know, or have
Speaker 3: at least some kind of game plan to you know, succeed.
Speaker 3: We don't make up things so we really dive bomb,
Speaker 3: you know, we make it up so we can make
Speaker 3: it through. And for him to tie her up and
Speaker 3: kill her kids in front of her is, Yes, the
Speaker 3: most diabolical thing right up there, right up there with
Speaker 3: Judas kiss. Yeah, the lowest, lowest level of hell there
Speaker 3: is one. He's fucking going, what a piece of shit?
Speaker 3: And I say, there should be like maybe some things where,
Speaker 3: you know, the rage rooms that they have, maybe we
Speaker 3: have rage prisoner like rage beatings of prisoners like I
Speaker 3: don't know you, I've heard what you did, and I
Speaker 3: like to enter the ring with me.
Speaker 1: I know, I wish should we in this kind of
Speaker 1: justice sometimes? You know, Yeah, it's it's part of the whole.
Speaker 1: No cruel and unusual punishment is loud, you know, it's
Speaker 1: it's unfortunately a constitutional right we all have. So all
Speaker 1: of the vigilanti justice that happens in prison has to happen,
Speaker 1: you know, off the record.
Speaker 3: Yes, it other prisoners. It's heartbreaking. It's a's ziabolical, it's
Speaker 3: so cruel.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know he he had to think about that.
Speaker 4: Oh he has he had gotten saying yeah, houstdon't wake
Speaker 4: up that night and be like, Okay, I'm just gonna
Speaker 4: kill everybody and then kill everybody.
Speaker 1: No, he was methodical. He took the older kid, you know,
Speaker 1: he took her first.
Speaker 3: Oh, having the kids tie, having you one tie that
Speaker 3: is terrible. Not alone Koy and Kaylee in the car,
Speaker 3: just so cowardice. Yes, it's just I don't understand that.
Speaker 3: Like I try to get in his brain and it's
Speaker 3: just fucking jumbled, and you just want to you know,
Speaker 3: why are you?
Speaker 2: I always why are you here?
Speaker 1: I know what?
Speaker 2: But it's like one thing too.
Speaker 3: I would imagine it's one thing to strangle someone, Like
Speaker 3: if I strangled someone, I was upset to death.
Speaker 2: Right, but now you have fetus.
Speaker 3: That's also a part of this package, the unborn child
Speaker 3: right that should make you off limits, like sacred somehow
Speaker 3: if you weren't sacred in the sight of the person
Speaker 3: before you, carrying another life should make you super sacred,
Speaker 3: right some kind of And Nope, he just is went
Speaker 3: and did them both in one thing. It is time
Speaker 3: came out, no feeling played a woman. How terrible, Tanya,
Speaker 3: this is terrible. And I used to live in Dearborners,
Speaker 3: dear Born in Dearborne Heights. Yeah, I loved Dearborn. I
Speaker 3: absolutely love Dearborn. I don't really know about Dearborn Heights
Speaker 3: as much, but the community, that darkness. I always tell Brooke,
Speaker 3: I'll be like, look at that house. I wonder what
Speaker 3: really goes on in there.
Speaker 2: I know it's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just never know the evil that lurks behind
Speaker 1: the door.
Speaker 3: And doing this podcast, I remember I went to my
Speaker 3: parents' house and my dad had the front door open,
Speaker 3: and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, I am the door open. You know.
Speaker 3: We just did a story where the family, you know,
Speaker 3: and I started going off.
Speaker 2: I'm like, never do this, don't do this.
Speaker 1: Oh, I know, I am such a I am such
Speaker 1: soso paranoid, you know. I mean, I consider like my
Speaker 1: neighborhood relatively safe, but my doors are always fucking locked.
Speaker 1: I see the alarm system on my house. If my
Speaker 1: alarm is on and you crack a window, it's going off, right,
Speaker 1: So I mean, you know, I think like hammers around
Speaker 1: my house, all the cameras I have around the house,
Speaker 1: and you just never fucking know.
Speaker 2: So, but good story. I'm so sorry for faith in
Speaker 2: the whole family. My gosh, that's good.
Speaker 1: I can't even imagine living my life with all of
Speaker 1: my children gone. No way that is, you know.
Speaker 2: It's really amazing. And talk about your strength.
Speaker 1: Just honestly, she beyond Yeah. I hope the rest of
Speaker 1: her life she just has blessings all the time.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I hope. I hope she's been able to get some
Speaker 1: therapy and find some sort of you know, joy in life, a.
Speaker 2: Great support system, just someone to make you smile.
Speaker 1: Yeah, strong family maybe hopefully. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: It's so sad and tragic. But I remember this story.
Speaker 1: I saw a show about it. Like I keep a
Speaker 1: list of cases on my phone, you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: watching like some kind of true crime story, and then
Speaker 1: I'll put like a little note And I had found
Speaker 1: this one in my notes and it was oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So then I started researching it again and I was like, ah,
Speaker 1: you know, being a lawyer and like realizing how the
Speaker 1: justice system just fails people all the time. I mean,
Speaker 1: I do see it. And like I said, I'm not
Speaker 1: even a criminal lawyer, so I can only imagine the
Speaker 1: shit that they see.
Speaker 2: But oh my goodness, it's just mean, like how do
Speaker 2: you fix it?
Speaker 1: How do you fix this kind of issue? You don't?
Speaker 1: Do you just decide, Okay, is it not rehabilitating the prisoner?
Speaker 1: Are we just is the prison just for punishment? We
Speaker 1: need to just decide.
Speaker 2: It's fank you right in any kind and maybe.
Speaker 1: Change the sentencing, you know, like if I rob a
Speaker 1: bank and I didn't hurt anybody, you know, maybe make
Speaker 1: that sentence a little bit less and that way when
Speaker 1: I get out, you know, it's not necessarily a violent crime,
Speaker 1: you know, like just have if you come at a
Speaker 1: violent crime, I don't feel like you should be back in.
Speaker 3: No, you've played your card. Like we're all able to
Speaker 3: be violent. All of us have the ability to be
Speaker 3: extremely island. And if you're going to play your cards violent,
Speaker 3: right then we know who You don't have control over
Speaker 3: it your week and you can't be with other strong
Speaker 3: people who are able to control right, their tiger, their anger,
Speaker 3: that would make them if you can't, if you go out,
Speaker 3: that's your first knee jerk reaction is to take a life.
Speaker 2: What are they doing with Epstein's island? Ship them over? Yeah, bye,
Speaker 2: bye bye.
Speaker 3: I know, live amongst yourselves, honest, but thank you so much.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you very kindly for listening, and thank you everyone.
Speaker 1: Since we are entering the holiday season, Shannon and I
Speaker 1: are going to take a little break. We'll be back
Speaker 1: at the first of the year, just so that we
Speaker 1: can enjoy our families, get some episodes in the bank.
Speaker 1: So we're just letting everybody know that we will have
Speaker 1: episodes the first full week of.
Speaker 2: January, January twenty twenty six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, can you believe it.
Speaker 3: It's a long way from nineteen seventy girls.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, ma'am, but I.
Speaker 1: Just wanted to warn everybody that there won't be any
Speaker 1: new episodes for two weeks.
Speaker 2: And we'll see you in the new year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see you in the new year, and we'll
Speaker 1: have more tragically horrific stories to tell you.
Speaker 2: Yes, I'll bring them to you. Yeah, all right, my friend,
Speaker 2: all right, you guys.
Speaker 3: Have the happiest of holidays you too, Joy and peace
Speaker 3: in your families.
Speaker 2: Yeah, at this time and all of next year.
Speaker 1: Absolutely everybody. A wonderful, happy merry Christmas, a joyful New Year,
Speaker 1: and we'll see you in January.
Speaker 2: See a girl, love you, love you ye bye,