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<v Speaker 3>Hey, folks.

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<v Speaker 1>We are recording at stable Coin Summit NYC, co hosted

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<v Speaker 1>by PayPal and Borderless XYZ. And joining me is Ezra Solomon,

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<v Speaker 1>who is the strategy lead blockchain and DeFi at Fireblocks. Ezra,

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<v Speaker 1>great to have you.

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<v Speaker 3>Very excited to be here. Thank you, Ezra.

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<v Speaker 1>I've covered Fireblocks over the years as far as news

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<v Speaker 1>items on the podcast, and I'm really excited to speak

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<v Speaker 1>with you to hear about all the cool things you

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<v Speaker 1>guys have been doing and what you're building and so forth.

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<v Speaker 1>So tell us a bit about your background and how

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<v Speaker 1>do you end up at Fireblocks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely so. I've been at fireblox for four years now.

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<v Speaker 2>What I do now is focus on our blockchain and

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<v Speaker 2>DeFi strategy. So what that entails is a, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>thinking about what do we need to prioritize next, what

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<v Speaker 2>blockchains do we need to integrate based on what our

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<v Speaker 2>customers are asking for and which DeFi protocols do they

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<v Speaker 2>need to connect to.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, B is actually.

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<v Speaker 2>Working with these partners to go to market, and then

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<v Speaker 2>C is actually working with the customers themselves and whether

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<v Speaker 2>it's for a blockchain helping them to deploy, or for

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<v Speaker 2>a DeFi protocol, helping them to build new products.

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<v Speaker 1>And give an overview of fireblocks and the services you offer,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, things along the lines of infrastructure and so

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<v Speaker 1>on and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, absolutely, I mean I think it's super interesting because

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<v Speaker 2>Firebox is one of those companies that it's like one

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<v Speaker 2>of the larger companies in the space that very few

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<v Speaker 2>people know about, and you know, I think that's a

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<v Speaker 2>testament to the fact that we've done a great job

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<v Speaker 2>providing infrastructure for many of the participants in crypto. So really,

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<v Speaker 2>the way I think about fireblos is what we do

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<v Speaker 2>really well is first and foremost security, right, But when

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<v Speaker 2>you think about the use cases in crypto, there's key

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<v Speaker 2>management and then there's asset orchestration. Right. So key management,

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<v Speaker 2>the use cases for that include just custody, which is

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the most obvious one, but then there's smart

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<v Speaker 2>contract deployment management, and that's sort of what represents tokenization

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<v Speaker 2>when you think about managing smart contracts.

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<v Speaker 3>We're very good at that type of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>And the orchestration is more about how do you plug

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<v Speaker 2>in all the different APIs for all the venues you

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<v Speaker 2>use and facilitate the movement of stable coins. So I

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<v Speaker 2>think those are the two areas that we've done very well.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think because of that, we've been able to

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<v Speaker 2>work with many of the largest FinTechs in the space,

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<v Speaker 2>the market makers, O DC desks, and many other types

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<v Speaker 2>of participants in order to sort of underpin their infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, Ultimately, the mission of Fireblocks is to provide

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<v Speaker 2>the safest and easiest way to interact to digital currencies

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<v Speaker 2>and uh yeah, and that's what we do.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's so critical to the growth and maturation of

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<v Speaker 1>the asset class. You know, you mentioned to FinTechs and

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<v Speaker 1>these institutions, many of them they can't you know, go

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<v Speaker 1>through the process of building all these things that they

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<v Speaker 1>need a solution like yours and so on that note,

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<v Speaker 1>have you seen over the past year a lot of adoption.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like a lot of traffic companies crypto is

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<v Speaker 1>a high priority.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, yeah, I mean, we definitely have.

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<v Speaker 2>And the way I think about it is, at the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day, we want our customers to excel

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<v Speaker 2>in what they do best, which is build their business.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think in the early days, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>we were talking before this about how we've both been

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<v Speaker 2>in the space for a long time. I remember in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen, everyone would be talking about how the best

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<v Speaker 2>way to secure your crypto would be to just stick

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<v Speaker 2>it on a ledger in a vault under a Swiss mountain.

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<v Speaker 2>That was like the whole thing, right, and our founders

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<v Speaker 2>sort of said, well, people are going to be using

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<v Speaker 2>these assets, right, Like, what we need to do is

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<v Speaker 2>build a solution for digital assets in motion, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>sort of what the base is for most of the

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<v Speaker 2>use cases that we power. So and now when you

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<v Speaker 2>think about today, all these different institutions and enterprises that

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<v Speaker 2>want to get into the space, they want to use

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<v Speaker 2>their assets, they want to do things with them, and

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's again like that's what we excel at.

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<v Speaker 2>But they don't want to hire teams to build out infrastructure.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, first of all, it would take them years.

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<v Speaker 2>Second of all, we've seen that happen before, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>not very secure.

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<v Speaker 3>In many cases.

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<v Speaker 2>Some companies have done a very good job at it.

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<v Speaker 3>It's not impossible.

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<v Speaker 2>But what companies want to do is they want to

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<v Speaker 2>purchase secure software that's been battle tested and then build

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<v Speaker 2>products on top of that. So as we've seen the

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<v Speaker 2>acceleration of stable coins and I think one of the

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<v Speaker 2>exciting and interesting stats that we've put out lately is

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<v Speaker 2>Fireblocks is helping to facilitate fifteen percent of total stable

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<v Speaker 2>coin volume. So as you see players want to get

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<v Speaker 2>more into this space, we've been a natural step for

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<v Speaker 2>them in order to do that securely and safely, but

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<v Speaker 2>also importantly is quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Absolutely, And stable coins I've heard is set being

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<v Speaker 1>said over the years that it's the killer app of blockchain.

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<v Speaker 1>It kind of was the first example of tokenization, right

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<v Speaker 1>putting fiat currency on chain. Now these institutions are tokenizing

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<v Speaker 1>gold and money market funds and much more so. Are

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<v Speaker 1>you seeing a lot of demand for stable coin services, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think the way we think about it too well.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, I think the reason why stable points

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<v Speaker 2>are picking up is because A the value is clear, right,

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can very easily see where you can

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<v Speaker 2>plug stable coins into your business and get immediate value.

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<v Speaker 2>But b now there's some sort of structure around it

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<v Speaker 2>with Genius, and we now have a better sense of

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<v Speaker 2>what you need to do in order to be a

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<v Speaker 2>participant in the stable cooin an ecosystem.

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<v Speaker 3>But what we're really.

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<v Speaker 2>Excited about is you can almost think of a of

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<v Speaker 2>stable coins as a trojan horse to get infrastructure into

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<v Speaker 2>some of these banks, because for anyone in sales that's

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<v Speaker 2>worked with banks, it will take you years to get

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<v Speaker 2>through a sales process or procurement process and eventually to

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<v Speaker 2>work with some of these participants. And in order to

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<v Speaker 2>do that, you need stakeholders that think that what you're

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<v Speaker 2>providing adds value to the business. And now that you

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<v Speaker 2>have stable coins where all these you know, banks and

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<v Speaker 2>institutional participants want to get started, you can now give

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<v Speaker 2>them the infrastructure that they need in order to start

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<v Speaker 2>tokenizing assets and distributing them. So I think, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>especially once we get the Market Structure Bill passed, we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to start to see more and more of these

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<v Speaker 2>use cases flush. But again, like the first step for

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<v Speaker 2>these banks is they need infrastructure in order to participate,

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<v Speaker 2>because without infrastructure, there's not really anything you can do.

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<v Speaker 2>Stable coins will be first, and then I think we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to start to see an uptick in tokenized stocks,

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<v Speaker 2>token ized treasuries, and all sorts of other interesting assets.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the tokenization race is heating up. I mean, it

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<v Speaker 1>seems almost every Wall Street firm or bank is now

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<v Speaker 1>looking to tokenize something and they're using different blockchains, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a multichain world. So how are you supporting the different

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<v Speaker 1>blockchains into your system because there's so many And obviously

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<v Speaker 1>you can go down the market gap and say okay,

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<v Speaker 1>here to top five, but there are other chains further

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<v Speaker 1>down the list that are doing unique things as well.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So I think where we hyper focus is what

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<v Speaker 2>our customers need in order to be successful. So you know,

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<v Speaker 2>any any emerging chain, for example, there are a couple,

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<v Speaker 2>there's some that we're announcing soon. By the way, that

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<v Speaker 2>as you start to see, especially in the areas that

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<v Speaker 2>we find are to be like strategically important, whether it's

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<v Speaker 2>like banking or payments, some of these chains have significant traction.

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<v Speaker 2>And for us, it's really important to integrate these blockchains

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<v Speaker 2>so our customers have access to them. And I'll go

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<v Speaker 2>back to the point of us providing infrastructure to make

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<v Speaker 2>it easier for our customers to launch products. Another issue

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<v Speaker 2>with holding the infrastructure yourself is you have to think

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<v Speaker 2>about all these blockchains right.

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<v Speaker 3>Like you're seeing now.

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the biggest trends, which I'm very

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<v Speaker 2>excited about, is privacy, right because there's so many use

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<v Speaker 2>cases that require privacy, and you know, some of these

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<v Speaker 2>some of these banks, for example, are not going to

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<v Speaker 2>launch payments applications where everyone can see all the transactions.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just not realistic, right Like I think, I think

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<v Speaker 2>the transparency of blockchain is great, but we also have

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<v Speaker 2>to meet some of these participants where they are, so

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we we listen to what our customers need

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<v Speaker 2>and ultimately make sure that we integrate these things so

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<v Speaker 2>that when it gets time for them to launch these products,

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<v Speaker 2>we have the solution set for them.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned privacy. Another component of that is security, So

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<v Speaker 1>tell us a bit about fireblocks and how your approach

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<v Speaker 1>security to make sure all this is working well and

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<v Speaker 1>assets are protected and so forth.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's it's a really tricky question. We

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<v Speaker 2>think about it as like a multi layer security solution

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<v Speaker 2>because there are different layers of the stack where you

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<v Speaker 2>can have attackers target you, and we need to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that every single part of that stack is secure.

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<v Speaker 2>The base layer is key manage and that's where we

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<v Speaker 2>have our MPC technology. You have segregated keys and that

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<v Speaker 2>helps to keep the keys secure where there's no single

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<v Speaker 2>key at any point that can be compromised. But then

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<v Speaker 2>on top of that there's policy engines and governance layers

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<v Speaker 2>and the ability to whitelist certain addresses and smart contracts.

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<v Speaker 2>We have the Fireblocks network, which almost builds this closed

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<v Speaker 2>environment where you know, all of your participants and the

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<v Speaker 2>folks in your organization are not going to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to send assets to an asset to an address that's

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<v Speaker 2>not approved. And then on top of that too, if

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<v Speaker 2>you think about user management, I mean, these are like

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<v Speaker 2>very basic things that large institutions and enterprises need that

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<v Speaker 2>they're accustomed to with like their aws. Instance for example,

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<v Speaker 2>is who's able to even get into this system? And

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<v Speaker 2>then what are the roles of each of these folks

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<v Speaker 2>that can access the system. If you're on the finance

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<v Speaker 2>team and you just need it for accounting purposes, you

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<v Speaker 2>should be a viewer. You shouldn't have keys, right, So

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<v Speaker 2>we think about all of that in order to make

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<v Speaker 2>sure that regardless of who you are in the organization,

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<v Speaker 2>you have the right level of access. And then your

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<v Speaker 2>access is in like a reapproved environment.

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<v Speaker 1>That's really great, and you know, as it relates to

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<v Speaker 1>private permission blockchain that some of these institutions have in house,

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<v Speaker 1>and then they're looking to bridge it to public chains.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you facilitating any of that? Does your service is

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<v Speaker 1>a conducive to that type of thing?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think so, And I think the way I

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<v Speaker 2>think about it is we provide connectivity to all those

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<v Speaker 2>different blockchains. So what we do with our customers has

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<v Speaker 2>helped them think through. Okay, first let's look at the

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<v Speaker 2>use case, right, what are the requirements for this use case?

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<v Speaker 2>If you're building a pilot and you have a closed

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<v Speaker 2>environment and you want to do something on like hyper

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<v Speaker 2>ledger Basu, great, we can help you with that. If

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<v Speaker 2>you do it in an EVM standard and you can

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<v Speaker 2>sort of poort those smart contracts over to a public

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<v Speaker 2>EVM blockchain, great we can help you with that too.

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<v Speaker 2>So it really depends case by case, But the answer

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<v Speaker 2>is yes. And again, like I think where it's really

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<v Speaker 2>important to focus is is taking the business requirements of

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<v Speaker 2>some of these banks and saying, you know, there's tons

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<v Speaker 2>of options out there and it can get super confusing,

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<v Speaker 2>and especially now a stable coins there's specifically there's stable

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<v Speaker 2>coin chains. Yeah, and it's like which one do you use? Right?

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<v Speaker 3>Like, that's the question that we get all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the reason why they're so many is

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<v Speaker 2>because they're all building different solutions, right, Like Tempo, for example,

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<v Speaker 2>is building the ability to use any stable coin as gas,

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<v Speaker 2>right and like that is theoretically really interesting, or to

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<v Speaker 2>have gasless transfers. So it's all about mapping those requirements

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<v Speaker 2>over to blockchains. And I think one of the nice

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<v Speaker 2>things too about a lot of these blockchains being EVM

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<v Speaker 2>compatible is that you're not locked in forever, right, Like

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<v Speaker 2>there's I mean, there is a switching costs associated of course,

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<v Speaker 2>but if you build all your smart contracts with the

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<v Speaker 2>EVM standard and you decide, okay, I want to pour

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<v Speaker 2>it over somewhere else, you.

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<v Speaker 3>Can do that. So we do help our customers with that.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, I mean interopability, it's so important in a

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<v Speaker 1>multichain world. And somebody's stable coins and you mentioned they

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<v Speaker 1>exist on different blockchains, Well maybe this month, I want

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<v Speaker 1>to use this chain versus the other, and you got

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<v Speaker 1>to be able to facilitate that.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that's exactly right.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's tons of really interesting solutions out out there,

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<v Speaker 2>Layer zero, chain Link, they're all doing an incredible job

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<v Speaker 2>of building introperability as well. And our perspective is just

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<v Speaker 2>let's connect to as much as possible. And I think

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<v Speaker 2>where I hyper focus looking at blockchain and DeFi is accessibility. Right,

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<v Speaker 2>So there's some stuff we build natively and then other

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<v Speaker 2>stuff there's access to via like DAP connectivity the same

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<v Speaker 2>way you'd think about MetaMask, and we just want our

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<v Speaker 2>customers to be able to do what they need to do.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, Yeah, I mean what you guys are doing is

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<v Speaker 1>such a core component for adoption, and this year we're

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<v Speaker 1>expecting a lot of adoption. We're at the cusp of

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<v Speaker 1>getting crypto marcrostructure pass. It seems like it might happen

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes as quarter. What do you think is going to

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<v Speaker 1>be the impact of that legislation being put into place?

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<v Speaker 2>Look, I mean, I think the big gap that we've

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<v Speaker 2>had is legislation. I think in order for especially for

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<v Speaker 2>institutions and banks to get involved and get comfortable, they

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<v Speaker 2>need a framework that they can follow.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think what.

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<v Speaker 2>You've seen historically is a lot of the FinTechs that

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<v Speaker 2>are a bit more comfortable taking the existing laws and

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<v Speaker 2>then building their products in a way that they think

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<v Speaker 2>best represents the law.

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<v Speaker 3>They're comfortable to launch that.

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<v Speaker 2>But the banks that are saying no, we need very

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<v Speaker 2>specific laws in order to get comfortable doing this. So

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<v Speaker 2>the interesting competitive dynamic that I think we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>see is is once we do have market structure passed

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<v Speaker 2>and you have banks come in, you're gonna actually start

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<v Speaker 2>to see a lot of these FinTechs and banks compete

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<v Speaker 2>directly because if you can offer similar products, if you

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<v Speaker 2>can offer a wallet for stable point deposits, and then

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<v Speaker 2>you can offer an integration to a lending protocol or

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<v Speaker 2>yield in some capacity, and then you can integrate in

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<v Speaker 2>a debit card for spending, a lot of these capabilities

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<v Speaker 2>are similar.

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<v Speaker 3>So then that begs the.

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<v Speaker 2>Question of you know, what are they going to do

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<v Speaker 2>to compete? But you know, right now we're only seeing

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<v Speaker 2>the more innovative, smaller companies that are comfortable building without

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<v Speaker 2>clear regulation launching these products.

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<v Speaker 1>Right it seems like there's a bit of a tension

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<v Speaker 1>between the crypto native firms which have been ahead of

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<v Speaker 1>the curve and the institution's coming in now. But eventually

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<v Speaker 1>I'll pan out where everything will work out once the

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<v Speaker 1>legislation's in place.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>Finally, what's on your roadmap for this year? What do

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<v Speaker 1>you as much as you can share.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean I think what I would want to

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<v Speaker 2>emphasize is Coinbase has done an incredible job building out

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<v Speaker 2>this trade everything stack. You know, they're thinking about token

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<v Speaker 2>ised stocks and borrow lend and all sorts of interesting

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<v Speaker 2>things there. I think FinTechs globally are seeing that and saying,

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<v Speaker 2>we can replicate this and give it our own you know, spin,

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<v Speaker 2>or we can focus on the products that are most

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<v Speaker 2>relevant to us in our region. And ultimately what we

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<v Speaker 2>want to do, especially now that we've recently acquired Dynamic

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<v Speaker 2>and Trust, so we have a different style of WALT

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<v Speaker 2>that we can provide to our customers. We have a

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<v Speaker 2>really nice reporting technology we can provide. We want to

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<v Speaker 2>help those customers launch all these products. Right, So when

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<v Speaker 2>we think about integrations to DeFi protocols, we're looking at, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>what do our customers need. These fintech customers in exchange

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<v Speaker 2>is what do they need? Because what are their end

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<v Speaker 2>users asking for and where's the threat where if another competitor,

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<v Speaker 2>if there's launches these products, their users might leave. So

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<v Speaker 2>they all want to launch these products as quick as possible,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as long as they can go through the

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<v Speaker 2>regulatory process and get approval for it. So I think

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<v Speaker 2>one thing I'll say, and this sort of like dovetails

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<v Speaker 2>into our roadmap, is I think what we can expect

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<v Speaker 2>over the next couple of quarters is many of these

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<v Speaker 2>global FinTechs are going to start launching token is, stocks

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<v Speaker 2>and borrow end and all sorts.

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<v Speaker 3>Of interesting things.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think the end users in many of these countries,

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<v Speaker 2>especially in places like Brazil and Argentina, are going to

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<v Speaker 2>get a much richer diversity of products and access and

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<v Speaker 2>our goals to support all of that.

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<v Speaker 1>That's amazing, and it's incredible at the pace at which

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<v Speaker 1>it's moving. I mean just the other day we heard

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<v Speaker 1>in New York Stock Exchange you're going to go twenty

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<v Speaker 1>four to seven. It's a brave new world.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah DDCC as well, they're thinking about bringing stocks on chain.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really incredible, you know, being in the space for

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<v Speaker 2>you know, as long as we have some of these things.

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<v Speaker 2>This is back when you know, someone at Blackrock mentioning

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<v Speaker 2>bitcoin with send bitcoin up twenty percent. Yeah, and you know,

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<v Speaker 2>now we're seeing you know, the all of the trad

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<v Speaker 2>fi institutions in uh, you know the world really is

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<v Speaker 2>starting to actually build production implementations of digital assets.

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<v Speaker 3>It's really incredible.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like something changed in the air, and all the

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<v Speaker 1>stock exchanges, the banks, the fintech firms around the world,

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<v Speaker 1>now they have a crypto strategy. Here's what we're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there. We're going to roll out this service and

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<v Speaker 1>YadA YadA. It's amazing, Ezra, thank you so much, Thank.

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<v Speaker 3>You for having me. Happy to be here.

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<v Speaker 1>This episode is brought to you by I Trust Capital.

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<v Speaker 1>Check it out. Thank you so much for tuning in.

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<v Speaker 1>Please hit the like button subscribe if you haven't as yet.

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