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Speaker 7: You are now listening to True Murder the most shocking
Speaker 7: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 7: written about them. Gaesy Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker BTK. Every
Speaker 7: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 7: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 7: journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening.
Speaker 8: This is a study of the brutal torture and murder
Speaker 8: of the author's brother and his longtime girlfriend forty years ago.
Speaker 8: In July nineteen seventy eight, two bodies were found in
Speaker 8: the sea off the coast of Guatemala and proved to
Speaker 8: be the remains of Chris Farmer and Peter Frampton, respectively,
Speaker 8: a medical graduate and a law graduate, aged twenty five
Speaker 8: and twenty four from Greater Manchester. They had been beaten,
Speaker 8: tortured and killed, their bodies weighted down and dumped in
Speaker 8: the sea from the yacht in which they had been
Speaker 8: crewing for nearly forty years. No one has charged with
Speaker 8: these savage murders, even though the name of the yacht,
Speaker 8: the Justin b and its owner, an American named Silas Boston,
Speaker 8: were known. But this is also the story of how
Speaker 8: Chris's sister, Penny Farmer, and her family tracked down the
Speaker 8: killer and assembled the evidence against him, until eventually, in
Speaker 8: December twenty sixteen, Boston was arrested in the United States
Speaker 8: and charged with two counts of maritime murder. He pleaded
Speaker 8: not guilty. But among the evidence that Chris Farmer's family,
Speaker 8: aided by police forces in both the UK and the
Speaker 8: United States as well the FBI, had so patiently collected,
Speaker 8: was the eyewitness testimony of one of Boston's two sons,
Speaker 8: who aged thirteen and twelve, had been present when the
Speaker 8: murders took place. Regrettably, Boston will now never face justice,
Speaker 8: for he effectively took his own life in prison in
Speaker 8: April twenty seventeen. But for the families of Chris and Pete,
Speaker 8: they have at least as satisfaction in knowing that, through
Speaker 8: their own efforts over many years, their killer did not
Speaker 8: escape being made to face his crimes. The book you
Speaker 8: were featuring this evening is Dead in the Water, Bringing
Speaker 8: down My Brother's Keeper after thirty nine years on the run.
Speaker 8: My special guest journalist and author all the way from
Speaker 8: the United Kingdom, Penny Farmer, thank you very much for
Speaker 8: a Greenness interview and welcome to the program. Penny Farmer,
Speaker 8: thank you very much, thank you, thank you. Let's start
Speaker 8: off because we have so much to cover in this
Speaker 8: incredible tale, much much stranger than fiction. Let's talk about
Speaker 8: your family, your mum Audrey, and your dad Charles, your
Speaker 8: brother Nigel, and then your brother Chris. Tell us a
Speaker 8: little bit about your family in nineteen seventy eight. How
Speaker 8: old were you. Tell us a little bit about where
Speaker 8: your family lived. Tell us a little bit about your
Speaker 8: life with your brother Chris Farmer.
Speaker 6: Okay, we were quite an ordinary family really that we were.
Speaker 6: There were the three of us and mum and dad,
Speaker 6: and we grew up in a suburb of Manchester called Chiltern,
Speaker 6: which really doesn't have much to recommend it, but apart
Speaker 6: from the fact that it's where the Beg's came from
Speaker 6: and the monkeys, you know, it was quite a happening
Speaker 6: time music wise, the jo which best that the footballer
Speaker 6: came from Manchester, So yes, in that respect it was
Speaker 6: a happening place. But Chorlton, the suburb where we grew up,
Speaker 6: was pretty sort of quiet and a sleepy, sort of little,
Speaker 6: you know, sort of town. But my brother, my two
Speaker 6: brothers were older than me, I was seventeen when Chris went.
Speaker 6: He was a medical student, and he and Peter had
Speaker 6: started dating when they were aged fourteen. They were childhood
Speaker 6: sweethearts and she literally lived opposite us in the same road.
Speaker 6: And whereas a lot of relationships tend to fall by
Speaker 6: the wayside, there's lasted and Chris turned down Oxbridge Cambridge
Speaker 6: and Oxford University to go to a university which she
Speaker 6: could get into as well, So I mean that that
Speaker 6: was a measure of the strength of their relationship. So yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, it was a fairly normal upbringing. Really, My
Speaker 6: older brother was another eight years older than me, but yeah,
Speaker 6: it was, you know, a good, happy family. We loved
Speaker 6: sailing and going on seaside holidays every year to a
Speaker 6: place called Anglesey, which is just off Whales, and yeah,
Speaker 6: it was a very happy upbringing.
Speaker 8: You talked about your father being in working for the BBC,
Speaker 8: and also that it was very very good time, very
Speaker 8: good family life that you had. Also that you went
Speaker 8: to this family holidays on the island of Anglesey, but
Speaker 8: there was this love of fishing and sailing and also Chris,
Speaker 8: you talk about the happening Manchester in the sixties. Tell
Speaker 8: us about Chris's character in particular, not only did he
Speaker 8: like sailing and fishing, but he had his mind set up,
Speaker 8: you say, at ten years old what he wanted to
Speaker 8: do in his life. So tell us a little bit
Speaker 8: more about Chris specifically and some of the things that
Speaker 8: made up his character.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean he was. He was quite a character,
Speaker 6: quite quite a big character. I mean that one of
Speaker 6: the nicest things about writing the book has been the
Speaker 6: number of friends of his that, some of which we
Speaker 6: didn't even know from his you know, university days, have
Speaker 6: come forward and given us, you know, that their accounts
Speaker 6: and memories of him. And one thing that just really
Speaker 6: strikes me, I mean we always knew that, you know,
Speaker 6: he was a very you know, outgoing, you know, a
Speaker 6: big personality. I mean what one of his friends described
Speaker 6: him as probably you know, the biggest character in their university. Yea,
Speaker 6: the most charming, the most charismatic. But at the same time,
Speaker 6: he was a very dedicated doctor, junior doctor. You know,
Speaker 6: he was you know, absolutely driven to becoming He wanted
Speaker 6: to become a surgeon. He was very trusting, probably you know,
Speaker 6: perhaps too trusting in retrospect, although no, I don't think so,
Speaker 6: actually because well, we'll go on to the store with
Speaker 6: the development of the story. But yeah, he was just
Speaker 6: a really kind soul, as was Peter. You know that
Speaker 6: they were just two very decent human beings. Chris was,
Speaker 6: you know, a colorful character, very very popular, and they
Speaker 6: had friends from all walks of life, not just from
Speaker 6: medicine and from law. You know, they you know that
Speaker 6: they just made friends very easily, and when they went
Speaker 6: to university they were quite well known for having parties
Speaker 6: and you know, a wide circle of friends.
Speaker 8: Go to nineteen seventy eight and talk about their love
Speaker 8: of travel, both of them, and they have an opportunity
Speaker 8: through this after hours medical service in Brisbane, Brisbane, Australia
Speaker 8: and the recruiting British doctors for three month contracts. Tell
Speaker 8: us what Peter and Chris's plan, your brother's plan was,
Speaker 8: which included this trip to Brisbane.
Speaker 6: Okay, Yeah, they had always enjoyed traveling and had gone
Speaker 6: to Morocco and various places in Europe. You know, you know,
Speaker 6: when when they were at university, and indeed during their
Speaker 6: school years and obviously doing medicine law that they're pretty
Speaker 6: lengthy periods of study. So they'd always have held this
Speaker 6: joint ambition of traveling for for around about a year,
Speaker 6: and this job offer came up in Australia, uh in
Speaker 6: Brisbane and along the Golden Coasts down there too, for
Speaker 6: Chris to do this after our medical work. So they
Speaker 6: went over and they spent about six months over there,
Speaker 6: really enjoying the outdoor lifestyle and you know, sailing again
Speaker 6: and fishing and swimming. And Peter got a job, just
Speaker 6: a sort of menial secretarial job whilst Chris worked out
Speaker 6: of our you know, a medical job, and by all accounts,
Speaker 6: you know that they kept in such good contact with us.
Speaker 6: They they wrote well, Peter wrote very long, very very
Speaker 6: descriptive letters back home to her mother, and Chris always
Speaker 6: kept in touch by sending cassette tapes that he'd recorded
Speaker 6: and sending those back to so, you know, I don't
Speaker 6: think there was a week that went by where we
Speaker 6: didn't actually hear from one of them. So, you know,
Speaker 6: we got a very good idea of what they were
Speaker 6: they were doing, and it was just good to keep
Speaker 6: in touch with them.
Speaker 8: Right now, there was a there was a plan to
Speaker 8: start traveling down through Mexico and explore some islands, and
Speaker 8: they had gone to Caledonia and Fiji and and they
Speaker 8: wanted to look at some explore me and and Aztec
Speaker 8: ruins in Mexico. So tell us about this plan to
Speaker 8: travel into Mexico.
Speaker 6: So yeah, so they landed in Los Angeles and didn't
Speaker 6: really like the the city, the urban you know side
Speaker 6: of Los Angeles, and decided they wanted to get out
Speaker 6: and go south of the border. So they got a
Speaker 6: coach I think they hired a car down to the border,
Speaker 6: and then they got a coach down to Wahaka and
Speaker 6: they spent a good couple of weeks looking around the
Speaker 6: the Azpet ruins and you know, the or the historical sites.
Speaker 6: But then they met a couple who had been you know,
Speaker 6: because they loved the sea and the outdoorsy life. This
Speaker 6: couple had said that there was a great barrier reef
Speaker 6: on you know, skirting the belief the and border, and
Speaker 6: had recommended to them to go there. So their plans changed.
Speaker 6: And one of the notable features of the case is that,
Speaker 6: you know, it was just literally that they were changing
Speaker 6: their plans day by day, and you know, you sort
Speaker 6: of you know, you read the story anythink, oh, my goodness,
Speaker 6: if only they hadn't done that. You know, it's literally
Speaker 6: hours away from from them changing their plans or being
Speaker 6: a very different outcome.
Speaker 8: You talk about the extensive letters, that long letters that
Speaker 8: Peter sent to her mother Sammy, and this one was
Speaker 8: June sixth, nineteen seventy eight. What as you mentioned, they
Speaker 8: said that they were on their way to Belize and
Speaker 8: they had stopped in Chechimo on the east coast of
Speaker 8: Yucatan Peninsula peninsula. But tell us what else they said
Speaker 8: in that letter.
Speaker 6: They've met some British soldiers and that they'd spent the
Speaker 6: evening drinking with them, and they had said that they'd
Speaker 6: actually rather been in Ireland because there was more excitement there,
Speaker 6: and Peter couldn't understand that, you know, why they would
Speaker 6: want to put themselves in danger. But yeah, churchen Mal
Speaker 6: is very much the sort of gateway to Belieze, and
Speaker 6: they were looking forward to going to Belieze and exploring.
Speaker 8: There was you mentioned the owner of the Norma boat
Speaker 8: and his Australian girlfriend and they introduced Chris and to
Speaker 8: an American acquaintance of there Is named Silas Dwayne Boston.
Speaker 8: They said they'd spent a couple of months sailing to
Speaker 8: different islands with them, snorkeling and swimming, fishing with another friend,
Speaker 8: Brian as well. And that Dwayne Boston was, as you write,
Speaker 8: was a well known character in Belize. So tell us
Speaker 8: a little bit more about this meeting, how they met
Speaker 8: Dwayne Boston, and then what is written in the letter
Speaker 8: in terms of their plans regarding Dwayne Boston.
Speaker 6: Yes, so they had Dwayne Boston was operating this that
Speaker 6: he was a Californian from Sacramento, and they met him
Speaker 6: just by chance through another couple that the owners of
Speaker 6: the Norma, and they decided to do some sailing with
Speaker 6: him and go out to these beautiful keys and islands
Speaker 6: that literally litter that coastline.
Speaker 9: And it was.
Speaker 6: He ran this sort of if you like, ferry service
Speaker 6: really between the keys the islands and gave tourists such
Speaker 6: as Chris and Peter lifts to the islands. And it
Speaker 6: wasn't long before he discovered that the most enjoyable part
Speaker 6: for the tourists was dropping off at various keys and
Speaker 6: barbecuing the fish of the day, that the catch of
Speaker 6: the day, and sort of making a bit more of
Speaker 6: a sort of a party of it, you know, a
Speaker 6: sort of day excursion, and so he was running that
Speaker 6: sort of service. And obviously Chris and Peter had experienced
Speaker 6: this and felt that, you know, that they enjoyed it.
Speaker 6: It was you know, as I say, Chris was a
Speaker 6: great sailor because he'd enjoyed sailing and learnt to be
Speaker 6: a very good sailor from when we used to go
Speaker 6: on holidays as a family to Anglesey. But they decided
Speaker 6: it was, you know, that that part of it that
Speaker 6: they wanted to continue with and for it to be
Speaker 6: a longer journey rather than just a day trip.
Speaker 8: Right as you're writ in the book, though, this is
Speaker 8: a new business for Boston, and he has no license
Speaker 8: to trade. So he uses this fishing boat basically or
Speaker 8: a bigger boat anyway, six six ton boat to sail tourists,
Speaker 8: like you say, to one of the keys, or to
Speaker 8: ferry them to Belize city. But you say that right
Speaker 8: after about three months of business, that officials boarded as
Speaker 8: his boat and told them what what did they tell him?
Speaker 6: They told him that he didn't have a license to
Speaker 6: trade and he was actually taking business away from the locals,
Speaker 6: and they told him to get out of the area,
Speaker 6: either that or to become an official ferry operator, which
Speaker 6: obviously he didn't want to do because, as we were
Speaker 6: to find out, he was actually on the run from
Speaker 6: California and he wanted to he was evading law enforcement,
Speaker 6: so he obviously didn't want to come up on the radar.
Speaker 6: And he was the whole reason he was down there.
Speaker 6: He was hiding away from law enforcement and Sacramento.
Speaker 8: He had also told the previous passengers that he was
Speaker 8: going to sell this boat. And you write, the history
Speaker 8: of this boat is that when he first went over
Speaker 8: that border with his sons, Russell and Vince, twelve and
Speaker 8: thirteen years of age, he had sold his guns, you write,
Speaker 8: and he had crossed the border. And when he was
Speaker 8: with these passengers, there was talk, wasn't there of him
Speaker 8: selling this boat. And then, especially after his conversation with
Speaker 8: the belized officials.
Speaker 6: Yes, he said he was going to take the boat
Speaker 6: further south down to Costa Rica and to sell it.
Speaker 6: And it was at that point because Chris was on
Speaker 6: the way to another medical job in Trinidad and Peter
Speaker 6: was going to spend some time with another medical friend
Speaker 6: of theirs in Louisiana, so that they decided that they
Speaker 6: would go with Boston down the coast and Chris would
Speaker 6: get the sailing experience that he really wanted, and then
Speaker 6: they would part company with him in Honduras.
Speaker 8: Now you say, even though they're part of the crew,
Speaker 8: Chris's experienced sailor and this is a business for this
Speaker 8: Dwayne Boston. So what is the deal that they strike up?
Speaker 8: What are the particulars of the deal, And how much
Speaker 8: is Boston charging Chris and Peter for this trip?
Speaker 6: Okay, he was charging them five hundred dollars each, which
Speaker 6: at times seemed quite a lot. It seemed quite a
Speaker 6: lot of money, bearing in mind that they were both
Speaker 6: taken on as crew. I mean, we only have his
Speaker 6: word for that, and in retrospect, it might be that
Speaker 6: he increased that amount because ultimately he was to rob
Speaker 6: them of their money. So we only have his word
Speaker 6: for that.
Speaker 8: Now you talk about the letters from Peter to her mother,
Speaker 8: Sammy and the contact that you have with Chris. When
Speaker 8: is the last time you hear from Chris? And is
Speaker 8: there anything out of the ordinary, anything untoward in that
Speaker 8: the last letter from Peter to her mother, and or
Speaker 8: the conversation you have or you get recorded from Chris.
Speaker 6: So we last He called us from Wahaka in Mexico
Speaker 6: and it was a perfectly you know, happy conversation. He
Speaker 6: also sent us a taate recording, uh, you know, and
Speaker 6: you know he was looking forward to ex during Mexico. Further,
Speaker 6: at that point they hadn't decided to go to Breeze,
Speaker 6: and we heard from him in the tape. We heard
Speaker 6: from Peter. We we got a letter in early June.
Speaker 6: But then what happened was there was nothing we didn't hear.
Speaker 6: There was complete radio silence and no letters, no communication
Speaker 6: at all throughout July, and it was at that point
Speaker 6: we really started worrying. Then we got a letter, I
Speaker 6: think it was August the fourth from Peter and the
Speaker 6: if she posted a letter late, she always always added
Speaker 6: a PostScript and it never failed. She always said, you know,
Speaker 6: I haven't been able to post this letter, so I'm
Speaker 6: adding a little bit extra to you know now, to
Speaker 6: tell you exactly where I am. You know, she was,
Speaker 6: she was so good at keeping in touch in that way.
Speaker 6: And we received a letter on August the fourth, which
Speaker 6: was which was dated, which had a poststamp, had been
Speaker 6: posted on July the eighteenth, and the last mention in
Speaker 6: the letter which was June the twenty ninth, and they
Speaker 6: weren't hunting key in the southern part of Belize, and
Speaker 6: it had been posted from Livingstone in Guatemala.
Speaker 8: You write too that in this letter again, everything is
Speaker 8: much more meaningful later once you realize about their disappearance.
Speaker 8: But in this letter she talks about the kids that
Speaker 8: are twelve and thirteen acting like eight year olds, and
Speaker 8: she talks about that. She comments that it's she's had
Speaker 8: enough of primitive living and that the space is certainly
Speaker 8: not enough for five people. So you write that there's
Speaker 8: a different tone in that letter from all the other
Speaker 8: letters that she's ever written.
Speaker 6: Yes, I mean the beginning of the letter, which was
Speaker 6: written I think sort of about June twenty eighth.
Speaker 8: You know.
Speaker 6: What one sense is that they had enjoyed the bohemian
Speaker 6: lifestyle and that you know that the sea life. But
Speaker 6: then the mood music of the letter changes, and by
Speaker 6: the PostScript of the twenty ninth she talks about the
Speaker 6: boys being very fractious and Boston losing his temper with
Speaker 6: the boys a lot, and one senses that the you know,
Speaker 6: the small cabin where they were sleeping was getting her down.
Speaker 6: It was very primitive. Yeah, and one sense is that
Speaker 6: things were going awry at that point.
Speaker 8: Now you say that there's mounting anxiety within your family
Speaker 8: and the Frampton family as well. Tell us by the
Speaker 8: end of August, what this anxiety is a result. What
Speaker 8: would you guys do as a result, What the two
Speaker 8: families do?
Speaker 6: Well? My parents, my father being a BBC journalist, he
Speaker 6: made an incredible amount of inquiries himself and my mother
Speaker 6: wrote letters. I don't think there was any embassy in
Speaker 6: Central or South America that didn't receive a letter from
Speaker 6: them asking if they had if they knew the whereabouts
Speaker 6: of Chris and Peter. They wrote copious letters, they sent photographs.
Speaker 6: They then contacted the Foreign Office, who likewise made various inquiries.
Speaker 6: They went on television to make an appeal, you know,
Speaker 6: to see if anybody had returned recently from that area
Speaker 6: of Central America who could perhaps help whom maybe had
Speaker 6: seen them. Yeah, they just didn't leave any stone unturned.
Speaker 6: And then my father had an absolute brain wave. He
Speaker 6: contacted the harbor masks in dan Griga, which from Peter's
Speaker 6: letter we knew was the last major port along the
Speaker 6: Beliezing coast that they had the boat had left from
Speaker 6: and it was that that was to prove crucial evidence
Speaker 6: both back in the seventies but also in the latter
Speaker 6: day investigation, because what that proved was that Chris and
Speaker 6: Peter were signed on his crew on the Justin Bi
Speaker 6: in June from Dan Dan Griega, So we knew that
Speaker 6: they were on that boat and they had they had
Speaker 6: left port. And then he also contacted the harbormaster in
Speaker 6: Guatemala because Peter's letter had said that their plans again
Speaker 6: had changed and that they were going to be probably
Speaker 6: dropped off in Guatemala because the weather wasn't wasn't good
Speaker 6: and to sail further down to Honduras would be difficult,
Speaker 6: and that Boston was going to put them as in Guatemala.
Speaker 6: So my father and mother contacted the harbormaster in Livingstone
Speaker 6: and apparently the boat had put in, but without Chris
Speaker 6: and Peter on board, so we knew that whatever had
Speaker 6: happened to them had happened out at sea and off
Speaker 6: the Belizean coast.
Speaker 8: Also, the captain of that local boat they knew was
Speaker 8: an American named Silas Dwayne Marston. They knew the name.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yes, yeah, I mean extraordinarily. You know that the
Speaker 6: amount of detail that Peter put in her letters. You know,
Speaker 6: she had even put his name, his age, She'd put
Speaker 6: the the ages of the two boys and their names.
Speaker 6: You know, it was quite incredible, really, just how much
Speaker 6: you know, detail we had.
Speaker 8: Now, despite this horror and this this disaster that's unfolding,
Speaker 8: your parents and your entire family keep it together to
Speaker 8: launch their own essentially their own investigation, or do as
Speaker 8: much aiding the authorities as you possibly can. You talk
Speaker 8: about mid October, and I know that we're skipping over
Speaker 8: all of the all the time that your family's distraught,
Speaker 8: But mid October you receive a call from the Foreign
Speaker 8: and Commonwealth Office and they say that Boston's two sons
Speaker 8: are found, the two sons that were accompanying them on
Speaker 8: this trip.
Speaker 6: Well, what happened in October? By the way, if I
Speaker 6: could just just go back slightly, you know, when I
Speaker 6: was saying that Chris was a very trusting character, because
Speaker 6: you might think, well, why did they get on this
Speaker 6: boat with a stranger? However, Boston was a very charismatic,
Speaker 6: very from by all the counts, very warm character, and
Speaker 6: of course at the end of the day he had
Speaker 6: two young sons with him, two by you know what.
Speaker 6: One looks at their photograph and they're two very angelic
Speaker 6: little boys. So you know, you would think you're safe,
Speaker 6: wouldn't you With a father with two young boys. You
Speaker 6: would never think that this was some bad guy. But anyway,
Speaker 6: just to go back to your question. So in October
Speaker 6: we were to discover because by this time, you know,
Speaker 6: my parents had put out inquired left, right, and center,
Speaker 6: but we found that Boston had come back onto the radar.
Speaker 6: What had happened was he'd taken the boat back up north,
Speaker 6: back up the bleazinging coast, and sold the boat and
Speaker 6: had then flown very very quickly. He got out of
Speaker 6: the country, fled Miami and then taken a car, a
Speaker 6: coach and then and then a hire car back to Sacramento.
Speaker 6: So he was back on the radar again, and we
Speaker 6: were absolutely delighted at this point, thinking, right, we're going
Speaker 6: to find out where they are now, you know, we're
Speaker 6: going to get some information. And so the British console
Speaker 6: in San Francisco interviewed him, but first by phone and
Speaker 6: then in person, and he brought along with him his father,
Speaker 6: Russell Sor, and they interviewed him quite extensively, but of
Speaker 6: course they weren't a law enforcement agency. But their hunch
Speaker 6: was when when they mentioned where's Chris and Peter?
Speaker 8: What what did you do? You know?
Speaker 6: Where did you put them down? Where did they disembark? Apparently,
Speaker 6: his his whole demeanor, his whole body language was such
Speaker 6: that he looked guilty that they were left with no
Speaker 6: doubt that this was a guilty guy.
Speaker 8: Right.
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Speaker 8: Now what you say that the family expects something like
Speaker 8: someone to look for the suns or no normal investigation
Speaker 8: to proceed? What does happen? So we.
Speaker 6: Basically what then happened was, you know, Russell and Vince,
Speaker 6: the two boys were passed from pillar to posts between
Speaker 6: the two divorced grandparents and Boston himself. I mean, what
Speaker 6: then the Because the British consul was you know, alerted
Speaker 6: to the fact that they felt he was guilty, they
Speaker 6: then transferred the case to Sacramento police, who who had
Speaker 6: you know, had him in for it or wanted to
Speaker 6: have him in for interviewing. The sheriff apparently was very
Speaker 6: keen to speak to him, and I think did on
Speaker 6: a couple of occasions. He was interviewed by the police
Speaker 6: and then quite extraordinarily because ultimately, but by December, we
Speaker 6: had we ourselves had put the case in Manchester in
Speaker 6: the hands of Greater Manchester Police. They you know, asked
Speaker 6: Sacramento Police to interview him as well. They made a request,
Speaker 6: but my father, being a journalist, managed to track Boston
Speaker 6: and his father, the grandfather, down and get a phone
Speaker 6: number for him. Well, at that time, in nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 6: Greater Manchester police weren't able to make international calls. And
Speaker 6: I know it sounds extraordinary, but this is the different
Speaker 6: world but we used to live in in those days,
Speaker 6: you know, no mobile phones and the police couldn't make
Speaker 6: international phone calls. So my father, with the agreement of
Speaker 6: the police, rang Boston and got his father on the
Speaker 6: phone and put a load of questions to him and
Speaker 6: then said to his father, please, we need to speak
Speaker 6: to Boston himself. So one day, out of the blue,
Speaker 6: in January nineteen seventy nine, Boston rang my father and
Speaker 6: basically he came up with a bunch of lies and
Speaker 6: quite quite tellingly, the story then had begun to change.
Speaker 6: He told them that he had put them ashore near
Speaker 6: Porta Barrios in Guatemala. And you know, the story had slight,
Speaker 6: subtle differences, so it wasn't a solid story that he
Speaker 6: was telling.
Speaker 8: And as a journalist, being a former journalist, your father
Speaker 8: recorded that conversation for.
Speaker 6: He did with his with his father. But unfortunately, because
Speaker 6: Boston himself had caught my father unawares, because because my
Speaker 6: father said, you know, please ask your son to ring
Speaker 6: us and we will you know, by collect and we
Speaker 6: will pay the for the call, he ran him in
Speaker 6: the middle of the night and he didn't have the
Speaker 6: recorder going when when Boston rank him. So unfortunately that
Speaker 6: that call wasn't recorded. But my father did write notes
Speaker 6: and you know, transcribed everything.
Speaker 8: Mm hmm.
Speaker 6: You But but then but by January, see, we were
Speaker 6: still no further in knowing where they were, and my
Speaker 6: parents were literally you know, aging in front of us,
Speaker 6: my my older brother and I and you know, it
Speaker 6: was it was terrible by them. They had been missing
Speaker 6: for well since July of the previous year. By by
Speaker 6: January that you know, we just didn't know what to
Speaker 6: do that they were missing. That no one was telling
Speaker 6: us anything. Boston was coming up with this changing story
Speaker 6: all the time, and so my parents at that point
Speaker 6: decided to employ a private detective, which was a friend
Speaker 6: of another another doctor who Peter was going to visit
Speaker 6: in Louisiana. He had a Belizean friend who we employed
Speaker 6: as a private detective to look in just about all
Speaker 6: the tourist haunts that he could think of along the
Speaker 6: Belizian coast to see if he could get any information
Speaker 6: on the case, and tried to push the case forward
Speaker 6: because nobody was doing anything greater. Manchester Police had never
Speaker 6: dealt with an international case of this sort. Sacramento Police
Speaker 6: just didn't really know what to do and said, well,
Speaker 6: it's not our jurisdiction. It happened in Guatemala that they
Speaker 6: just didn't know what to do. And by spring of
Speaker 6: nineteen seventy nine, you know, some ten months on, Boston
Speaker 6: then went on the run and he was literally running
Speaker 6: up and down with sometimes the two children the Californian coast,
Speaker 6: down over the Mexican border to Baja, hiding out down
Speaker 6: there whenever he felt he was hot, which meant, you know,
Speaker 6: the police were on his tra He just disappeared, and
Speaker 6: you know that the grandparents colluded with all in all
Speaker 6: of this. They hid the boys whenever anybody tried to
Speaker 6: interview them. You know, we pretty much knew who this
Speaker 6: guy was. You know that he was guilty as hell,
Speaker 6: but we just couldn't track him down. That nobody was
Speaker 6: doing anything. So, as I say, a point of desperation,
Speaker 6: my parents employed this this private detective.
Speaker 8: Yes, this is Olfonsel de Pina. Yeah, we're going to
Speaker 8: go ahead to January nineteen seventy nine. You talk about
Speaker 8: a major breakthrough via this Alfonsel Depina. He meets a
Speaker 8: Catholic priest. What does this Catholic priest, Father Jerry, what
Speaker 8: story does Yeah.
Speaker 6: I mean Alfonso was visiting hotels, cemeteries, you know, churches, ports,
Speaker 6: and yeah, he met the Catholic priests just by pure chance.
Speaker 6: Who and he said, you know, have you heard of
Speaker 6: these two people, these two British you know, young people.
Speaker 6: And he said, well, he said, I haven't heard of them,
Speaker 6: but I do know that two Westerners were buried, were
Speaker 6: washed ashore. Well they weren't washed ashore. They were found
Speaker 6: about two hundred meters of the peninsula off Guatemala, bot
Speaker 6: pointed de la Carboed Peninsula, and he said that this
Speaker 6: happened back in July of nineteen seventy eight. Remember that
Speaker 6: this was in January of nineteen seventy nine. So he said,
Speaker 6: you know, seven months previous, two bodies had been found
Speaker 6: floating offshore, weighed down with motor engine parts, and they
Speaker 6: from which they had come loose, the ropes had come loose,
Speaker 6: that their bodies had you know, bloated, and they had
Speaker 6: come to the surface and they had well, the female
Speaker 6: had a plastic bag around her neck and placed over
Speaker 6: her head, and they'd obviously so shown you know, signs
Speaker 6: of torture. And he said that they were brought ashore,
Speaker 6: as were the engine parts to which their bodies were tied,
Speaker 6: which were at the bottom of the sea. And they
Speaker 6: were brought ashore and an autopsy was done on them,
Speaker 6: and then they were buried unidentified in the cemetery in
Speaker 6: Porta Barios, and they were buried in unidentified grays in
Speaker 6: a corner of the cemetery.
Speaker 8: So he.
Speaker 6: He didn't want to break the news to us because
Speaker 6: obviously that was devastating news, but he did tell the
Speaker 6: Foreign Office. He then informed us, but even then we
Speaker 6: still didn't know exclusively that it was them. I mean,
Speaker 6: we had a pretty good idea two Westerners in that locality.
Speaker 6: You know, we were pretty sure that these must have
Speaker 6: been you know, Chris and Peter. But then we had
Speaker 6: to wait a further two months because we had to
Speaker 6: have their dental records flown out two and their bodies exhumed,
Speaker 6: and such was the shambolic state of the cemetery. They
Speaker 6: had to dig up six other bodies before they found
Speaker 6: Chris and Peter, and you know, very very sadly and tragically,
Speaker 6: their dental records matched. So it was then April that
Speaker 6: we actually knew that they were dead, and we obviously
Speaker 6: knew the circumstances of their deaths, but we had no
Speaker 6: idea why it had happened. These were two very decent
Speaker 6: human beings, kind, you know, responsible, worth while human beings
Speaker 6: who had died in the most ghastly, the heenous way,
Speaker 6: and we just and we had to live with that
Speaker 6: for thirty eight years. We knew we had a well,
Speaker 6: should I say, we had a pretty good idea who
Speaker 6: had killed them, but we knew nothing about why they
Speaker 6: had ended up in that state. And that was the
Speaker 6: wreckage that we came to live with for thirty eight years.
Speaker 8: Before you this case goes completely cold and you revisit
Speaker 8: it back in twenty and fifteen. You have this epiphany
Speaker 8: as you write, do you think, after this, when the
Speaker 8: bodies have been exhumed, and you've gone through this laborist
Speaker 8: effort to find them in the first place, and this
Speaker 8: by chance meeting of this priest to tell you this
Speaker 8: incredibly sad story that offers no closure whatsoever, do you
Speaker 8: believe you contact the Greater Manchester Police there's a Sacramento
Speaker 8: Police department. Do you think there's hope at that point
Speaker 8: that something can resolve after finding out all this information? Well?
Speaker 6: No, not really. I mean it's hard to imagine just
Speaker 6: how lost we felt. You know, my parents were just
Speaker 6: operating in a bubble. Really that this, you know, it
Speaker 6: all seemed so remote. Nobody was talking to us, nobody
Speaker 6: was really contacting us. We had so little help, you
Speaker 6: know what. The little about little amount of information we
Speaker 6: did have was really only gleaned by my parents. Nobody
Speaker 6: else really helped us. You know that the detective who
Speaker 6: was working on the case in greater amounts Chester was
Speaker 6: ten months later moved on to other duties, and you
Speaker 6: know we had but because you know, international communication was
Speaker 6: so poor in those days, it was terrible, really, I mean,
Speaker 6: I think we waited a further eighteen months not hearing anything,
Speaker 6: only that we were told that Boston had gone on
Speaker 6: the run, the children couldn't be found. But we did
Speaker 6: get one glimmer of hope where we really did think
Speaker 6: the case was at last go forward, and that was
Speaker 6: in nineteen eighty one when Boston turned up on the
Speaker 6: radar again because he was wanted for the abduction of
Speaker 6: one of his children, not the two children who were
Speaker 6: on board the boat. It was one of his other
Speaker 6: children and he was wanted for the abduction of that child.
Speaker 6: And we and we were told about this and we thought, great,
Speaker 6: you know we are that this, we're back on track again.
Speaker 6: We're going to hear something now, because you know, obviously
Speaker 6: they were the file for Christ and Peter was still open,
Speaker 6: and also we were led to believe and we do
Speaker 6: know that he was interviewed about Christ and Peter again.
Speaker 6: But again the story was changing again subtly. You know
Speaker 6: that he his lies were becoming more and more, you know,
Speaker 6: he was telling more and more lies.
Speaker 8: Shall we say, one of the characters in this book
Speaker 8: that couldn't let this case go was Cei David Sachs,
Speaker 8: and he'd been moved off the case like you had said,
Speaker 8: but he wrote a letter to the San Raphael Police
Speaker 8: Department saying that your father was a journalist and a
Speaker 8: med student and a highly intelligent guy that could be
Speaker 8: an asset in this investigation.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Well, I mean my father was just you know,
Speaker 6: he was obsessed with it. Really. You know, I think
Speaker 6: people when they find themselves in this situation either go,
Speaker 6: you know what, one of two ways. And you know,
Speaker 6: my parents they're very I say, my parents that my
Speaker 6: father's now dead. He died in twenty thirteen, sadly never
Speaker 6: knowing any of this. He died, you know, not knowing
Speaker 6: what happened to Chris. But for my mother as well,
Speaker 6: she's very sort of stiff British upper lift. And that
Speaker 6: they that they just threw themselves into the investigation. They
Speaker 6: never gave up, you know, even I think as you know,
Speaker 6: as far as two thousand and one, they were still
Speaker 6: you know, once the internet was around, they were emailing
Speaker 6: Sacramento police departments saying, you know, we lost our sons.
Speaker 6: Some girl and his girlfriend in Guatemala. You know, we
Speaker 6: pretty much know who did it. Has he come back
Speaker 6: on the scene, has he been charged with any other crimes?
Speaker 6: You know, but we never heard anything. And as I say,
Speaker 6: when Boston did come come back on the radar again
Speaker 6: in nineteen eighty one, he was let off on a
Speaker 6: technicality for the abduction of this child and once again,
Speaker 6: you know, he flew like a bird released from its cage,
Speaker 6: and once again, you know, went on the run. And
Speaker 6: you know, they couldn't they couldn't. Pin Chris, I think
Speaker 6: you know that the guy who interviewed, the detective who
Speaker 6: interviewed him, you know, he did ask him all the
Speaker 6: personent questions, but of course with no clear evidence, you know,
Speaker 6: because all the evidence had been lost, the engine parts,
Speaker 6: et cetera had been lost, and because it happened in
Speaker 6: Guatemalan waters, it was British citizens and this the you
Speaker 6: know that the suspect was American Californian. It was just
Speaker 6: too difficult for anybody to push ahead and prosecute, and
Speaker 6: it just completely floundered. I think everybody just felt this
Speaker 6: was too hard an international case to adversolve. So sadly,
Speaker 6: again in nineteen eighty one he went on the run,
Speaker 6: and you know, we completely lost all hope of ever
Speaker 6: getting any answers.
Speaker 8: You write that you graduated English literature degree Lancaster University,
Speaker 8: and you moved to London in nineteen eighty two studying
Speaker 8: to be a journalist, and you did become a journalist.
Speaker 8: You met your husband to be Ben in nineteen eighty seven,
Speaker 8: you were married the next year and you had a child.
Speaker 8: In nineteen ninety you moved to Oxford, gave up working
Speaker 8: in London and worked for a local paper and was
Speaker 8: a pr consultant. You had two more kids in ninety
Speaker 8: three and ninety six. Again, you say, in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 8: your mother wrote Sacramento Police Department, any news, no reply.
Speaker 8: Fast forward to October second, twenty and fifteen. You're in
Speaker 8: at home. Tell us about that day in this epiphany.
Speaker 6: As you write, so, I mean, Chris has always been
Speaker 6: a part of our lives. We've never forgotten him. And
Speaker 6: you know, Mom and I My mother lives with us.
Speaker 6: She's now ninety four, but she's you know, she's got
Speaker 6: all the marbles, and she's you know, she's very fluent,
Speaker 6: she's physically very active. Still and so she and I
Speaker 6: were out on the dog walk. It was a beautiful
Speaker 6: autumn's day, and you know, we were sitting in this field,
Speaker 6: and you know, as quite often it does, we got
Speaker 6: round to talking about Chris and my mom said, you know,
Speaker 6: I wonder what he'd look like now, you know, he
Speaker 6: would have been in the sixties, you know. And it
Speaker 6: was at that point, really it was just really like
Speaker 6: a bolt from the blue. I just thought, my goodness,
Speaker 6: why on earth have I not looked for Boston and
Speaker 6: these two boys were obviously men by then, but two
Speaker 6: boys on the internet. You know, times have changed, times
Speaker 6: have moved on. Why have I not done this before?
Speaker 6: So I literally raced home from this, you know, from
Speaker 6: this dog walk, and I went to my mum's bureau
Speaker 6: and she and dad had compiled a huge portfolio of documents,
Speaker 6: much of it with original documentation in it that from
Speaker 6: the nineteen seventies, and so I got it all out
Speaker 6: and I literally just that that evening, I sort of
Speaker 6: drilled down and looked for anything I could associated with
Speaker 6: the family, and it actually didn't take very long to
Speaker 6: find the two sons. First I found Russell Boston, and
Speaker 6: then I found Vince and then I, you know, discovered
Speaker 6: Boston himself, and you know, my jaw was on the
Speaker 6: floor at this point. I just thought, my goodness, you know,
Speaker 6: these are the three people that we have for the
Speaker 6: last thirty eight years needed and wanted to track, and
Speaker 6: here they are in front of me and glorious technical color,
Speaker 6: living what seemed to be very happy, very normal lives.
Speaker 6: And yeah. So I literally spent that whole weekend compiling
Speaker 6: a sort of profile of the three of them, and
Speaker 6: then I, you know, I went, I mean, it's amazing,
Speaker 6: really how much you can find out on Facebook, how
Speaker 6: much people give away unwittingly. So I, you know, I
Speaker 6: was writing copious notes at this point, and then I
Speaker 6: you know, extended my research further out and I could
Speaker 6: see that Vince had lodge Day an appeal in twenty
Speaker 6: twelve for information about his mother. I could see from
Speaker 6: his Facebook that he knew that his mother had died
Speaker 6: from a gunshot wound because he was he was decrying
Speaker 6: the American gun laws and he was saying, you know
Speaker 6: that his mother had been shot at the age of
Speaker 6: twenty three back in nineteen sixty eight. And I was
Speaker 6: just amazed that ought to find all this information. We
Speaker 6: knew back in nineteen seventy nine that Boston's wife had
Speaker 6: gone missing ten years or eleven years previous, but we
Speaker 6: didn't really know any more detail. We knew that the
Speaker 6: boy's mother, Boston's wife I think it was his third wife,
Speaker 6: had gone missing, but we didn't really know anymore. I
Speaker 6: think the supposition was that she had been killed, but
Speaker 6: we didn't know any more detail. So in twenty fifteen
Speaker 6: to find that detail on the internet on Facebook was
Speaker 6: just extraordinary.
Speaker 8: You took this effort to and you has been encouraged
Speaker 8: by that post by Vince about the gunplay and anti gunstance,
Speaker 8: and also that he had posted something about his missing mother.
Speaker 8: So you reached out to them on Facebook. You sent
Speaker 8: them both messages. Did you get a receis.
Speaker 6: No, not at that point. I so that weekend I
Speaker 6: wrote them direct messages, well almost immediately as soon as
Speaker 6: I found them, I wrote them and I said, I
Speaker 6: think you know what happened on the justin b the
Speaker 6: name of the boat back in nineteen seventy eight, when
Speaker 6: it was sailing down the Bleazing Coast. I didn't say
Speaker 6: who I was, and I at that point had a
Speaker 6: pseudonym a Facebook account because I've got three kids and
Speaker 6: I wanted to keep an eye on them, and I
Speaker 6: made up this bogus account. So yeah, Facebook might not
Speaker 6: be too happy. But you know, fake friends in this
Speaker 6: case were your friend or my friend. So I had
Speaker 6: this bogus account and I wrote to them because I
Speaker 6: didn't obvious want to give my name away as being farmer,
Speaker 6: I didn't want to, you know, in case they remembered
Speaker 6: the names of Chris and Peter. So this worked really
Speaker 6: well to use this fake account. So I started off
Speaker 6: by saying, I think you know what happened on that
Speaker 6: boat back in nineteen seventy eight. And then as the
Speaker 6: weekend wore on and I got no reply, I became
Speaker 6: more and more threatening, and by Sunday I was telling
Speaker 6: them that there is no way I was going to
Speaker 6: leave this alone, so they might as well tell me
Speaker 6: what happened, and because you know, I was basically going
Speaker 6: to take it further, which I then did. They didn't
Speaker 6: reply to me at all. That Russell did reply to me,
Speaker 6: but that was some months later and when the case
Speaker 6: had been reopened, and by that point we were told
Speaker 6: to have no contact with the boys whatsoever for fear
Speaker 6: of prejudicing the trial. But what happened after that weekend,
Speaker 6: after me compiling a whole sort of profile of this family,
Speaker 6: I went back to Greater Manchester Police, the cold case
Speaker 6: unit and basically begged them to see me and present
Speaker 6: the file and my findings.
Speaker 8: You also talked at Mikeller Cinch or Clinch. She contacted
Speaker 8: David Sachson. He had a copy of the file with
Speaker 8: everything in there as well.
Speaker 6: He did, yes, he when he for the ten months
Speaker 6: that he was working on the case, he had compiled
Speaker 6: another another set of you know, it took taken copies
Speaker 6: of everything, and although he was moved off the case,
Speaker 6: whenever he came back he updated his file. He had
Speaker 6: been writing to sacrament A Police depart and the letters
Speaker 6: imploring them to look for Boston. And when he was
Speaker 6: found in nineteen eighty one, you know, and on the
Speaker 6: abduction charge, my father was writing long letters saying please
Speaker 6: ask him about this, please please ask him about you know,
Speaker 6: the putting questions basically to the Sacramento police to bring
Speaker 6: them up to date on what they should be asking,
Speaker 6: you know, because he was just like a dog with
Speaker 6: a bow my father about this, you know, and wanted
Speaker 6: to push the case forward. You know, he was desperate,
Speaker 6: but yes, so inspect of SAX. When he did come,
Speaker 6: he was never put back onto the case at all.
Speaker 6: But he did copy everything that my father was sending
Speaker 6: it because my father was copying in GMP at that time.
Speaker 6: Greater Manchester Police.
Speaker 8: Now this you talk about another character, Amy Crosby, and
Speaker 8: she had been investigating the boy's mother, Mary Lou was
Speaker 8: Boston's wife Mary Lou's disappearance and at that time she
Speaker 8: had spoke to Vince. Tell us about what follows these
Speaker 8: conversations once they do get a chance to speak to Vince, Well,
Speaker 8: what does he say about the murder of his mother
Speaker 8: in terms of the knowledge and the family?
Speaker 6: Well, I mean it was a massive revelation to us
Speaker 6: because when we went forward and Greater Manchester Police said, yes,
Speaker 6: we're going to contact into poll and find out what's
Speaker 6: happened on the other side of the Atlantic. It was
Speaker 6: then a couple of months later we heard that the
Speaker 6: Sacramented Police were in contact with Vince and then subsequently Russell.
Speaker 6: And it was at that point we learned that Vince
Speaker 6: and Russell. I mean, up until that point we thought,
Speaker 6: my goodness, these two kids, maybe they hadn't witnessed anything,
Speaker 6: you know, and we assumed that they hadn't or whatever
Speaker 6: had happened to them, and maybe happened at nighttime when
Speaker 6: the boys were asleep or whatever. But you know, we
Speaker 6: did sort of feel bad about the fact that they
Speaker 6: hadn't come forward, and you know, that the case hadn't
Speaker 6: been pushed forward, you know. So what was a massive
Speaker 6: revelation to us was to discover that the boys had
Speaker 6: been going to law enforcement over the years at various
Speaker 6: points and trying to tell them that they had witnessed incredibly,
Speaker 6: they had been eyewitnesses to their murders. And that was
Speaker 6: just astonishing news to us that these two boys had,
Speaker 6: you know, close quarters witnessed them being murdered. And so
Speaker 6: Amy Crosby, the detective in Sacramento Police, she had the
Speaker 6: file on her desk. I think she was because she
Speaker 6: was missing person's detective. She was looking into the case anyway.
Speaker 6: But another quite extraordinary development, and again pure coincidence how
Speaker 6: it all happened in that autumn of twenty fifteen, is
Speaker 6: the fact that the FBI launched this quest to find
Speaker 6: the Golden State Killer, and they had asked all law
Speaker 6: enforcement agencies in California to look for cold cases which
Speaker 6: matched a similar You know of criminals who had the
Speaker 6: same modus operandi of tying up and looking for couples.
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Speaker 6: No perch is necessary. If we were privateed by loss,
Speaker 6: he terms and conditions eighteen plus.
Speaker 8: Now as a as a result of that, you say inadvertently,
Speaker 8: it puts this case back on the radar and things
Speaker 8: start moving as well, and you get again another meeting
Speaker 8: where again we haven't heard the details, but from the
Speaker 8: eyewitness of reports, they ask your family, They ask your family,
Speaker 8: if they how much do you want to know? What
Speaker 8: does your family say and what does your family find out?
Speaker 6: Okay, so we were asked to go to a great
Speaker 6: Manchester place one afternoon, and we walked into the room
Speaker 6: and the head of the cold case unit there had
Speaker 6: Russell and Vince's statements that they had given Sacramento PD,
Speaker 6: and my older brother and I both felt that it
Speaker 6: was really up to my mother, who at this point
Speaker 6: was ninety one years old, and we said to her,
Speaker 6: you know, what do you want to know? Do you
Speaker 6: want just an edited version or do you want the
Speaker 6: whole lot? And she, you know, she'd been waiting for
Speaker 6: thirty eight years to find out what had happened to Chris.
Speaker 6: And you know, as I say, we are very pragmatic
Speaker 6: sort of family, and she wanted to know everything. And
Speaker 6: so yeah, so Martin, the head of the cold case unit,
Speaker 6: literally went through everything and spared us no detail. And
Speaker 6: you know, in a way it was I hate using
Speaker 6: that word closure because it's not really closure. The pain
Speaker 6: still continues. But we needed to know we'd waited so
Speaker 6: long to know what and why this had happened. And
Speaker 6: so yes, by the time we walked out of that room,
Speaker 6: I think we were stunned, shocked, and I think it
Speaker 6: surpassed any of our worst nightmares what Boston had done.
Speaker 6: To Chris and Peter, but we needed.
Speaker 3: To know.
Speaker 8: How does the case proceed. Do you have this horrible account,
Speaker 8: they have this evidence, dismounting evidence. You talk about a
Speaker 8: contact with Russell personally, but that is a little bit later.
Speaker 8: So tell us what the police do with all of
Speaker 8: this information. Now that they've told you.
Speaker 9: What do they do?
Speaker 6: Okay? So obviously he was ruled out. They wanted his
Speaker 6: DNA for the GSK because because obviously his his MO
Speaker 6: was very similar, they were very keen to DNA him
Speaker 6: and I think they were pretty surprised to find that
Speaker 6: he wasn't the GSK. His DNA didn't come back positive,
Speaker 6: but they knew that they had a really bad guy here. Russell,
Speaker 6: who was helping with the police inquiries immensely because he
Speaker 6: had had quite a lot of contact with his father,
Speaker 6: was very instrumental in providing them with a lot of information,
Speaker 6: and he sat down and with the police and basically
Speaker 6: told them about all his crimes. Russell is of the
Speaker 6: belief that he killed thirty three people, and certainly because
Speaker 6: because Boston had told him so and other people as well,
Speaker 6: and certainly his mother. He killed the boy's mother, and
Speaker 6: obviously Chris and Peter because they witnessed it. But they
Speaker 6: sat down once they ruled him out of the GfK
Speaker 6: series of murders and rapes, they realized that they had
Speaker 6: this really bad guy on their hands and that they
Speaker 6: obviously this time had to do something to prosecute him.
Speaker 6: So they've tried to get the British to prosecute him,
Speaker 6: but we didn't have the legal We had to revert
Speaker 6: back to the laws of nineteen seventy eight and we
Speaker 6: didn't have the grounds to extradite for him to be
Speaker 6: extradited and for him to stand in this country. But
Speaker 6: the prosecution team went into full full operation and really
Speaker 6: worked the case. We were, you know, they'd obviously dragged
Speaker 6: their vet for thirty eight years, but when it did happen,
Speaker 6: it happened, you know, and they really came together and
Speaker 6: they decided that the best way to proceed with the
Speaker 6: case was to charge him in a federal court because
Speaker 6: they could establish that the boat that justin b was
Speaker 6: a piece of American estate owned by an American and
Speaker 6: so quite unusually for federal courts that they were going
Speaker 6: to charge him, you know, it was going to be
Speaker 6: a maritime charge of double murder and for him to
Speaker 6: be tried in a federal court. Russell fortunately had kept
Speaker 6: a lot of the possessions, Boston's possessions, and he found
Speaker 6: the receipt for the boat, proving that Boston had owned
Speaker 6: the boat. So once he'd found that, we knew we
Speaker 6: were in business and we could proceed. We felt, you know,
Speaker 6: very confident because the two boys were willing to stand
Speaker 6: against their father, and we were very confident that the
Speaker 6: case would go ahead.
Speaker 8: You write that December one, twenty sixteen, he is arrested
Speaker 8: and charged with the murders of Chris and Peter, and
Speaker 8: they think he's in Eureka and after the responsibility left
Speaker 8: the eye to rest him. But ironically or he had
Speaker 8: moved to a place called Paradise. What is the state
Speaker 8: of this person at that time? How old is he in?
Speaker 8: What kind of condition is he in?
Speaker 6: Okay, by then he was seventy four. His health was failing.
Speaker 6: He had multiple health issues, heart, lung. You know, he'd
Speaker 6: lived a pretty rough life because he was on the
Speaker 6: run for so long, fifty years, if you take it
Speaker 6: from his wife's murder of nineteen sixty eight, just literally,
Speaker 6: you know, spent it on the run. So you know,
Speaker 6: he was pretty much a vagrant really.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 6: But by then he had got gone into this nursing
Speaker 6: home in Eureka. And yeah, when the FBI went to
Speaker 6: arrest him, they discovered, much to their dismay and shock,
Speaker 6: and to ask a shock, I have to say, because
Speaker 6: we were told that he was under constant surveillance, he
Speaker 6: had been moved just a couple of days before. And
Speaker 6: what was even more astonishing is the reason he'd been
Speaker 6: moved is that one of the nurses had taken pity
Speaker 6: on him, obviously not realizing his background, and felt that
Speaker 6: he needed better care. So he was moved to the
Speaker 6: nursing home in Paradise. So they quickly scrambled another prosecution
Speaker 6: team and he was arrested then on December the first,
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen for Chris and Peter's US back in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 8: Eight, with this entire case, and again, if you don't
Speaker 8: want to recall all of this, but if you find
Speaker 8: out the exact fate from the Suns and also another
Speaker 8: witness later, Brian Logsden, I was a good friend of
Speaker 8: Russell and he was told information that corroborated the story.
Speaker 8: But what was the reason you found out that the
Speaker 8: question you asked for thirty eight years was why, why
Speaker 8: what happened? And why what happened?
Speaker 6: Okay, so, okay, So in twenty seventeen, I mean, I
Speaker 6: got all this detail from the cold case unit, but
Speaker 6: I also heard it firsthand from Russell Boston, who I
Speaker 6: met in twenty seventeen, that basically what had happened was
Speaker 6: Boston was regularly beating up both both sons, particularly Russell,
Speaker 6: who was just basically a punch bag for him. And
Speaker 6: one afternoon in late June, my brother had interceded and said,
Speaker 6: stop beating up Russell, you know, get off. And he
Speaker 6: had tried to, I think Paul Boston off Russell who
Speaker 6: was literally beating him, you know, raining down punches on Russell.
Speaker 6: And as he did, say Boston, who was drunk, he
Speaker 6: particularly liked rum, he had swung out at my brother
Speaker 6: and he missed and he ended up going into the sea,
Speaker 6: Boston missus, and he was very humiliated. And it was
Speaker 6: quite near the coastline, and people on shore could see
Speaker 6: the altercation and could see that, you know, there was
Speaker 6: there was a row had broken, and my brother shouted
Speaker 6: to him, you can come back on board the boat
Speaker 6: if you behave, but if you're going to beat up
Speaker 6: your kids like this, then you know you can stay
Speaker 6: there and cool down. Basically. Anyway, Boston assured him that
Speaker 6: he was going to behave and be good, so my
Speaker 6: brother helped him back on board. Later that evening, Boston
Speaker 6: said to Vince, I'm going to kill them for that.
Speaker 6: I'm fucking going to kill them. You know, I'm humiliated.
Speaker 6: They're not going to live anyway. The next day, as
Speaker 6: dusk was was, you know, was drawing down that you
Speaker 6: know that the sun was going down, Boston said to Chris,
Speaker 6: go and pull up the anchor. And Chris as he
Speaker 6: went to pull up the anchor, Boston crept up behind
Speaker 6: him and with him in his hand. He had lead
Speaker 6: line trunch and one that is no longer was no
Speaker 6: longer in use at that point because of the indiscriminate damage.
Speaker 6: It goes two people. So he went up and started
Speaker 6: hammering down blows at the back of Chris's head. Chris
Speaker 6: covered his skull for protection with his arms and his hands,
Speaker 6: but Vince says there was blood flying everywhere all over
Speaker 6: the deck, and he heard Chris's skull fracture. You know,
Speaker 6: there was an awful crack. Chris tried to get up
Speaker 6: a sort of stagger along the deck and to say, well,
Speaker 6: you know what was she doing? You know, what was
Speaker 6: your game? What the hell is happening here? And then Boston,
Speaker 6: who had prepared, who had got on the deck a
Speaker 6: fish knife, a filet knife to fillip fish with, then
Speaker 6: stabbed him in the chest, in the sternum, and it
Speaker 6: was so hard that the handle broke and it flew
Speaker 6: into the sea. And then Peter came up from the
Speaker 6: galley and said, well, you know what was going on?
Speaker 6: She was shot, and he told her to get down
Speaker 6: and threatened her with the spear gun. So after that,
Speaker 6: basically he tied their hands very loosely. But Chris by
Speaker 6: this point was in a very bad state. You know,
Speaker 6: I think he'd got numerous broken bones. He was obviously concussed.
Speaker 6: I think he was fading in and out of consciousness,
Speaker 6: and you know, broken skull. I you know, one can
Speaker 6: only imagine how how badly injured he was. The reason,
Speaker 6: and I don't think we've we've discussed this one, is
Speaker 6: that the reason Boston was down there was because he
Speaker 6: was wanted in sacrament In in Beliez was because he
Speaker 6: was wanted on serious rape charge of a minor and
Speaker 6: he had escaped justice in Sacramento, which is what he
Speaker 6: fled with the boys down to Sacramento, down to Belize.
Speaker 6: So basically you've got a serial rapist on that boat.
Speaker 6: Peter was cordoned off and held in this tiny little
Speaker 6: cabin in the front of the boat, and Chris was
Speaker 6: kept on deck, tied up with ropes. She was tied up,
Speaker 6: They were stripped naked. Boston spent some you know, I
Speaker 6: will leave up to your imagination without going too far
Speaker 6: into this, but you know, Pitt Peter was alone with
Speaker 6: Boston for some time in this front cabin, naked, roped up,
Speaker 6: hog tied, hands behind. But he he over the course
Speaker 6: of well, Russell says it went on for a good
Speaker 6: two days. Vince says less, it was less time, but
Speaker 6: certainly I mean, Russell says there were two nights where
Speaker 6: they were in this state. I think Vince says it
Speaker 6: was one night. But Chris when it first after after
Speaker 6: the argument had first broken out, and he was badly
Speaker 6: and he said to Boston, you know, what can we do?
Speaker 2: What?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 6: What you know? And Boston said, well, you haven't paid me,
Speaker 6: and so Chris said, that's fine. You know, we'll hand
Speaker 6: over whatever you you've you want from us, and he
Speaker 6: made them sign some of their Thomas Cook travelers checks,
Speaker 6: which they did, and quite incredibly Chris got from his
Speaker 6: medical bag because he was a junior doctor. Uh. But
Speaker 6: Boston was complaining of back ache, so Chris said, I
Speaker 6: will give you a sedative to so the pain will
Speaker 6: wear off, which he did, and that that first night
Speaker 6: Boston slept soundly apparently, and Chris also injected himself into
Speaker 6: his collar bone to presumably to release some of the
Speaker 6: pain that he was in. So it's quite extraordinary really,
Speaker 6: because Chris actually did have the wherewithal in his medical
Speaker 6: bag to put Boston out. Well, he did sedate him,
Speaker 6: and presumably Chris and Peter could have. I don't know
Speaker 6: how whether Chris was actually conscious enough to do it.
Speaker 6: If he was, if he injected himself, presumably he could have.
Speaker 6: But you know, they could have tied Boston up themselves
Speaker 6: and you know, incapacitated him, but they chose not to,
Speaker 6: thinking I think that in the morning it would all
Speaker 6: be fine, and that it was just a mental aberration
Speaker 6: of Boston. So that he'd done this and that come
Speaker 6: the morning or would be fine. But what happened was,
Speaker 6: you know, the next day he woke up. Russell says
Speaker 6: that it continued for another twenty four hours. Vince says
Speaker 6: it didn't. But basically what then happened was he said
Speaker 6: to them that what he was going to do was
Speaker 6: tie engine parts, heavy engine parts that he was using
Speaker 6: as ballast to stabilize the boat and which they had
Speaker 6: picked up in Dan Griega on the trip down. He
Speaker 6: said he was going to tie them to their limbs,
Speaker 6: which he did, really heavy engine parts, because what he
Speaker 6: wanted to do was put them in shore and for
Speaker 6: them to walk in slowly. But he wouldn't drop them
Speaker 6: on shore because he didn't want them to alert the
Speaker 6: police too soon. And what he wanted to do was
Speaker 6: take the boat further out to see so he could escape.
Speaker 6: So he said he was putting these engine parts on
Speaker 6: their legs and round their necks in order to slow
Speaker 6: them down, and he then said he was going to
Speaker 6: take the boat in into shore. At this point, they
Speaker 6: were both on the deck, trussed up, hogtied with these
Speaker 6: engine parts around them, and then as he was taking
Speaker 6: them in, sure he said, Hey, I'm going to put
Speaker 6: some plastic bags over your heads. But it's okay, it's
Speaker 6: all right. I'm going to put holes in so you
Speaker 6: can still breathe. But I just don't want you to
Speaker 6: see where we're going. So he asked the boys if
Speaker 6: they would tie them around their heads, and according to
Speaker 6: the boys, they refused. But all the time he was
Speaker 6: trying to make them be accomplices. You know, he was
Speaker 6: asking Vince and Russell to watch over them during the night,
Speaker 6: to keep guard over them. He was all the time
Speaker 6: trying to implicate them in his crime. Remember they were
Speaker 6: only twelve and thirteen. But anyway, he took the boat
Speaker 6: in shore and then all of a sudden he decided
Speaker 6: to go to go back around and take them out
Speaker 6: to sea. And at that point he put plastic bags
Speaker 6: over their heads. And it was out at sea when
Speaker 6: they were well completely after their debts. You know, this
Speaker 6: was this was some way. Oh sure, he threw Chris
Speaker 6: overboard the engine parts, followed by Chris and then Peter,
Speaker 6: and again the two accounts differ. The two boys accounts differ.
Speaker 6: You know, Vince Russell says that I think Chris went
Speaker 6: reasonably quietly because I think he was in such a
Speaker 6: bad state, and I think he was physically absolutely, you know,
Speaker 6: he'd had it really by this point. But I think Peter,
Speaker 6: you know, she was fully aware and she heard Chris
Speaker 6: go into the water, and Russell says she was pretty
Speaker 6: hysterical and didn't go easily at all, and yeah, pushed
Speaker 6: them overboard out at sea, and then continued on sale.
Speaker 6: This was all witnessed by the two boys.
Speaker 8: Talk about to the psychological torture that was after the
Speaker 8: physical battering, in that the separation of the couples, but
Speaker 8: also that right to the very end he was trying
Speaker 8: to deceive them, telling them, listen, we're right by the shore.
Speaker 8: So when I dump you off with this heavy engine parts,
Speaker 8: the ropes will be kind of loose, till Russell lying
Speaker 8: to Russell in front of them, that the ropes will
Speaker 8: be so loose that they would just be able to
Speaker 8: they'd be walking on the on the ground, on the
Speaker 8: floor of the ocean anyway, So right the seating and meanwhile,
Speaker 8: as you as you write and this impending horror, Chris
Speaker 8: doesn't realize till it's too late.
Speaker 6: I think, I mean, Chris is an intelligent guy. I
Speaker 6: think I think that it was almost like it was
Speaker 6: like a trap, that it was like a serpent luring
Speaker 6: them into this trap. And I think once they realized
Speaker 6: that they were in too deep, there was no turning back.
Speaker 6: It was a one way street. I think, you know,
Speaker 6: they'd gone too far. And I think by this time
Speaker 6: they both knew that the game was up, that were
Speaker 6: not no game. But I think they knew that they
Speaker 6: were going to die. I think you know, they has
Speaker 6: to say. Chris was and Peter they were both very intelligent, bright,
Speaker 6: right right people. And Chris, you know, he didn't just
Speaker 6: have a scratch, he was very, very badly injured. And
Speaker 6: you know, goodness knows what Boston did to Peter.
Speaker 8: Yeah, now back to Dwayne Boston. He's behind bars, he's
Speaker 8: not going to get any bail. He's sick. So your
Speaker 8: pursuit of justice, your family's pursuit of justice. Your father
Speaker 8: had passed away by this time, but your mother is
Speaker 8: still alive and still, like you say, very aware, and
Speaker 8: so what happens with this trial.
Speaker 6: So we were asked if we wanted to have the
Speaker 6: death penalty for Boston. But my mother, being the person
Speaker 6: she is, she has always believed that it's sort of
Speaker 6: blowing yourself to the level of the gutter the criminal,
Speaker 6: and she refused it, and I felt, you know, but
Speaker 6: my older brother and I just felt that it was
Speaker 6: very much left. It was my mother's decision what she
Speaker 6: wanted to do. Sure, so we actually said no, we
Speaker 6: would waver it. And in any case, you know, practically speaking,
Speaker 6: he was just going to sit on death row or
Speaker 6: die on death row anyway, So we said no, that
Speaker 6: we didn't want it. But yeah, things started started moving.
Speaker 6: But then, you know, he was arrested December twenty sixteen,
Speaker 6: but by February the fourteenth, we were told that he'd
Speaker 6: been hospitalized, and it was then that our heart was
Speaker 6: beginning to think. But then by the end of February
Speaker 6: he was out of hospital again, and we actually started
Speaker 6: feeling more confident because we were given a provisional court
Speaker 6: date of October the sixth, I think it was or
Speaker 6: October the eighth, and we were asked to go over
Speaker 6: to Sacramento in early May to give pre trial evidence.
Speaker 6: So we were quite encouraged by that, you know, and
Speaker 6: we really felt that we were at last beginning to
Speaker 6: see justice, you know, that the wheels of justice were
Speaker 6: actually beginning to turn in our favor after all these
Speaker 6: extraordinary coincidences, and you know that this sort of like
Speaker 6: jigsaw that had been thrown to every you know, possible
Speaker 6: corner of the globe started to come together, almost like
Speaker 6: in slow motion. We felt, you know, wow with you
Speaker 6: know that this this this court trial was actually going
Speaker 6: to happen. But then, yeah, in early April, we got
Speaker 6: bad news.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the idea that tell us how he keeps control
Speaker 8: right to the end.
Speaker 6: Okay, So basically what happened then in early April, I mean,
Speaker 6: he knew we were coming over for him. You know,
Speaker 6: we'd actually set this pre or rather than you know,
Speaker 6: the courts had actually set this pre trial evident state
Speaker 6: of early May. So he knew that we were coming.
Speaker 6: And you know, we were coming over with the GMP
Speaker 6: detectives and the detective back from nineteen seventy eight was coming,
Speaker 6: My mum and I were coming, and we were all
Speaker 6: going to come over. And basically, on April the fourth
Speaker 6: of twenty seventeen, Boston said to his doctors, I want
Speaker 6: to stop dialysis. I don't want any more medication. I
Speaker 6: don't want liquid, I don't want food, I don't want anything.
Speaker 6: I want to die, and apparently they had to honor that.
Speaker 6: And extraordinarily I just couldn't get my head around this.
Speaker 6: I thought, you know, how can this happen? How can
Speaker 6: you let him die when we you know, just is
Speaker 6: within our grasp, you know. But basically Russell, his next
Speaker 6: of kin, his younger son, went to see him the
Speaker 6: day before he died, and he said to his father, look,
Speaker 6: you've killed our mum. You know, we know she's dead.
Speaker 6: You've admitted to us you've killed her. Please, you know,
Speaker 6: just tell us where she's buried. And even to the
Speaker 6: very end, he had this glower, you know, this this
Speaker 6: menacing look, this controlling look, and he just looked at him.
Speaker 6: He looked down at the shackles on his on his
Speaker 6: legs and his arms, because he was shackled in the
Speaker 6: in this hospital bed with two marshals either side of him,
Speaker 6: and he said, he didn't say anything. He just absolutely
Speaker 6: gave him this sort of death look and as if
Speaker 6: to say, you have you know, you've basically given evidence
Speaker 6: against me, Russell, how could you?
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 6: So Russell got no satisfaction. Russell and Vince got no satisfaction.
Speaker 6: And yeah, and we were just devastated. You know, we
Speaker 6: could not believe we got so far, you know, in
Speaker 6: the case, and yet you know we had fallen at
Speaker 6: this final hurdle. We just we could not grasp it.
Speaker 6: It was just like a further kick the stomach really
Speaker 6: to us. You know that he was extricating term life
Speaker 6: on his terms, and that he wasn't even going to
Speaker 6: give us that that small crumb of satisfaction. It was
Speaker 6: never going to bring them back, but it would have
Speaker 6: meant a lot to have known that, you know, he
Speaker 6: had gone down for it, but he wasn't going to
Speaker 6: give us that.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 8: Part of the extraordinary part of the book, of a
Speaker 8: truly extraordinary book, is the interaction with Russell with you.
Speaker 8: That Russell has this deathbed interaction with his father, tells
Speaker 8: them things that he always wanted to tell him. And
Speaker 8: then you have this incredible meeting with Russell yourself, realizing
Speaker 8: that he too is a victim, and again you provide
Speaker 8: that event that again cathartic, you say this cathartic, but
Speaker 8: a cathartic event where you speak to Russell and talk
Speaker 8: about that faithful day, those faithful days on that boat
Speaker 8: with him and Peter. I want to thank you very
Speaker 8: much for coming on and talking about Dead in the
Speaker 8: Water bringing down my brother's keeper after his thirty nine
Speaker 8: years on the run. Tell us where we can get
Speaker 8: a copy of this book and how we can find
Speaker 8: out more about this. Do you have a Facebook page, website?
Speaker 8: Tell us more about how people might find out more
Speaker 8: about Dead in the Water.
Speaker 6: Thank you very much. Yes, well, you know, I'm grateful
Speaker 6: to you for allowing me to talk and talk for
Speaker 6: so long. Yeah, I mean it's available, I think from
Speaker 6: just about every bookshop. If you go to my website
Speaker 6: ww dot Penny Farmer dot co dot uk, you will
Speaker 6: see three outlets Amazon. I think it's Band and Noble
Speaker 6: and one other that I can't remember right now, but
Speaker 6: I but if you go to that anyway, you will
Speaker 6: you will see it. But yes, it's it's launching April second.
Speaker 6: And yes, well, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 6: I hope I haven't sent you all to sleep.
Speaker 8: Oh no, this has been a fascinating interview. I want
Speaker 8: to thank you very much for coming on and talking
Speaker 8: about this very very personal case and a very like
Speaker 8: you say, astonishing that this fight for justice, this your
Speaker 8: pursuit of justice, took so long, but you did bring
Speaker 8: this incredibly. You did bring down your brother's killer, brought
Speaker 8: him to justice and all the information about exactly what
Speaker 8: happened when first you knew nothing and all that horror
Speaker 8: of not knowing and this again it's not closure, but
Speaker 8: this thank you very much for this incredible effort and
Speaker 8: this book, Dead in the Water.
Speaker 6: I want to thank you very much, Thank you very much.
Speaker 6: I've just and my website tells me that it's Amazon US,
Speaker 6: it's Barnes and Noble, and it's Indie bound, so I
Speaker 6: hope that helps, and that the publisher is Diversion Book,
Speaker 6: so who've been absolutely wonderful and yeah, are very supportive.
Speaker 6: So yeah, anyway, well, thank you so much. And I
Speaker 6: hope that readers let me know their thoughts because I've
Speaker 6: got broad shoulders and you know, I'd love to hear
Speaker 6: from people as to what their thoughts are on the case.
Speaker 6: And as you say, it is just one of those
Speaker 6: really unbelievable stories really that if you read as fiction,
Speaker 6: you just would not believe. But yeah, I can vouch
Speaker 6: that every word is true.
Speaker 8: Absolutely. Thank you very much a Penny Farmer for talking
Speaker 8: about Dead in the Water bringing down my brother's keeper
Speaker 8: after his thirty nine years on the run. Join me
Speaker 8: fans for on Facebook for comments about this episode and others.
Speaker 8: Thank you, Penny Farmer, good night, Thanks, thank you.