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Noe's necessary. 55 00:02:28.520 --> 00:02:30.599 We're hitted by eighteen plus terms and condition to plus 56 00:02:30.759 --> 00:02:31.439 what's every details? 57 00:02:31.599 --> 00:02:37.800 Great True Murder with your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 58 00:02:47.439 --> 00:02:51.280 Good Evening. In nineteen sixty nine, the body of a 59 00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:54.960 young woman was discovered in the woods of Renton, rocking 60 00:02:55.039 --> 00:02:59.719 the community's along Puget Sound. Three more brutal murders followed 61 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:02.960 the attention of multiple police agencies as they tried to 62 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:07.759 piece together the meager clues left behind. The seemingly unrelated 63 00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:11.240 cases challenged detectives who struggled to realize they were all 64 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:15.840 connected to one man, Gary Jen Grant. Before the term 65 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:20.759 serial killer was even coined, Grant stalked his prey, destroying 66 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:25.800 lives and families while walking unseen among the masses. Decades later, 67 00:03:25.879 --> 00:03:30.560 his crimes have all but been have all but been forgotten. 68 00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:35.319 Joint author and homicide investigator Cloyd Steiger as he uncovers 69 00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.680 the story of the murderer who slipped through the cracks 70 00:03:37.879 --> 00:03:40.719 of history. The book they were featuring this evening as 71 00:03:40.759 --> 00:03:46.039 Seattle's Forgotten serial Killer. Gary jen Grant was my special guest. 72 00:03:46.159 --> 00:03:51.159 Retired homicide detective and author Cloyd Steiger. Welcome to the program, 73 00:03:51.240 --> 00:03:55.319 and thank you very much for this interview. Cloyd Steiger, Yeah, 74 00:03:55.400 --> 00:04:00.439 thank you for having me. Thank you very much, audience. 75 00:04:00.800 --> 00:04:03.800 A little bit about your background. I just mentioned that 76 00:04:03.879 --> 00:04:06.439 you were a homicide detective. Tell us a little bit 77 00:04:06.479 --> 00:04:09.759 about your background and the job that after you retired 78 00:04:09.879 --> 00:04:15.599 from Homicide division. What job you worked at and had 79 00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:20.240 some relation to this case. Yeah. 80 00:04:20.279 --> 00:04:22.560 I spent thirty six years of the Seattle Police Department, 81 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:24.600 and the last twenty two of those years I was 82 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.439 a homicide detective. So I investigated hundreds of murders, everything 83 00:04:28.519 --> 00:04:34.360 from the gangbanger on the corner to serial killers, mass shooters, 84 00:04:34.879 --> 00:04:41.399 active shooters, domestic terrorism. And I retired in twenty sixteen 85 00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:45.120 and I went to work for the Washington State Attorney 86 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:49.639 General Homicide Investigation Tracking System. That's a system that was 87 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:54.279 set up back in the days. It was actually originated 88 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.040 in Bundy days and then in the Green River days 89 00:04:57.079 --> 00:05:01.240 because of agencies not having information across yours lions and 90 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:05.040 Bob Keppel, who is well known in the murder industry, 91 00:05:05.120 --> 00:05:07.319 set this thing up right and he was the chief 92 00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:09.720 criminal investigator at that time, and that's the position I 93 00:05:09.800 --> 00:05:12.519 have now as the chief criminal investigator. So I run 94 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:17.680 that unit and I supervised the investigators and analysts across 95 00:05:17.800 --> 00:05:22.759 the state to we track every murder that happens in 96 00:05:22.800 --> 00:05:26.079 the state and also in Oregon in Montana. But we 97 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:30.680 also like consult with agencies, especially small agencies that just 98 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:32.519 don't have there any murders that don't know what to do. 99 00:05:32.680 --> 00:05:37.399 We offer them expertise and also resources if they need it. 100 00:05:37.600 --> 00:05:39.040 And so that's what I do. But it's you know, 101 00:05:39.439 --> 00:05:42.040 it's a great job as a retirement job, because it's 102 00:05:42.079 --> 00:05:44.120 eight o'clock in the morning before and the afternoon every day. 103 00:05:44.519 --> 00:05:46.040 I know a time I'm going home every day, and 104 00:05:46.120 --> 00:05:47.720 they never called me at one thirty in the morning. 105 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:50.279 So that's the difference in this my old. 106 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.920 Now you're an author of another book called The View 107 00:05:55.000 --> 00:05:57.839 from Inside the Yellow Tape, and this is a true crime, 108 00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.240 but they consider a true crime memoir Uh, tell us 109 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:05.920 a little bit about this. And you were talking to 110 00:06:06.199 --> 00:06:09.360 a reader of this book one day and he mentioned 111 00:06:09.399 --> 00:06:11.600 something to you. So tell us a little bit about 112 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:14.519 this book and the success of this book and then 113 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:17.199 what it led to in terms of this project. 114 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:22.279 Yeah, so I wrote. People would always ask me, non 115 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:24.759 police people that I knew, to tell them about my work, 116 00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:27.360 and I'd tell them things and they just be fascinated. 117 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:28.920 You know. I talked to me, I'm talking about a 118 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:31.879 day at work like anybody else, And I look at 119 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:33.879 them in their mouths are hanging open, and they keep hearing. 120 00:06:33.959 --> 00:06:35.160 You got to write a book. You got to write 121 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.399 a book. And so when I was getting close to retiring, 122 00:06:38.720 --> 00:06:40.639 I thought, I just started toying around with the idea 123 00:06:40.680 --> 00:06:43.319 and then I just started writing stuff down and before 124 00:06:43.360 --> 00:06:45.639 you knew it, you know, I had a book. So 125 00:06:46.319 --> 00:06:50.560 and I published it through Amazon and it actually took 126 00:06:50.639 --> 00:06:52.560 off really well. I mean I got a lot of sales, 127 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:54.959 a lot of a lot of interviews in the news, 128 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:58.120 a lot of media coverage, a lot of podcasts and 129 00:06:58.240 --> 00:07:01.199 so and then I did advertise thing through Amazon. But 130 00:07:01.319 --> 00:07:03.319 it's been it's sold pretty well. It's consistently so it 131 00:07:03.360 --> 00:07:04.600 has been out in a couple of weeks, I mean 132 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:08.160 a couple of years. And so one day I get 133 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:11.040 an email from some guy that has read the book 134 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.279 and he said, hey, what do you know about Gary Grant? 135 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:17.319 He was a guy killing kids and people in Renting 136 00:07:17.360 --> 00:07:20.519 in the late sixties early seventies. And you know, I'm 137 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:24.399 kind of a student of serial killers, especially ones from 138 00:07:24.480 --> 00:07:26.800 this region, and there are many of them, but I 139 00:07:26.879 --> 00:07:28.519 had never heard of Gary Grant, so I was kind 140 00:07:28.519 --> 00:07:32.000 of surprised by that. My main interest was for this 141 00:07:32.279 --> 00:07:34.399 job that I have now because to put that case 142 00:07:34.439 --> 00:07:36.319 in the database. So I had to one of my 143 00:07:36.319 --> 00:07:39.399 analysts call the Renton Police Department and they said, well, 144 00:07:39.600 --> 00:07:41.160 we don't really have it. We have his name here, 145 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:43.240 but not much. And then they called the King County Sheriff, 146 00:07:43.240 --> 00:07:46.000 who also handled some of the cases. They didn't have much. 147 00:07:46.079 --> 00:07:49.519 So I called the King County Prosecutors Office and to 148 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.920 the area of the homicide or the prescu's office he 149 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:54.160 handles all the murders and the paralegal there and I said, hey, 150 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:56.160 do you have a case on this guy or a 151 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:57.920 court file? And she said, let me check. I'll get 152 00:07:57.920 --> 00:07:59.600 back to in a few days later. Ship call said, yeah, 153 00:07:59.639 --> 00:08:01.639 we have it. Can I borrow it? She said sure, 154 00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:03.800 So I went down and got it and it was 155 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:07.040 thousands of pages, and I just scanned the entire case 156 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:10.160 file again to put it in our database of all 157 00:08:10.199 --> 00:08:12.240 these murders, because we want to have all serial murders, right, 158 00:08:12.279 --> 00:08:14.399 we have every murder from about nineteen eighty three forward 159 00:08:14.920 --> 00:08:18.079 going backward, we have select murders that we know about, 160 00:08:18.120 --> 00:08:22.240 any unsolved involving especially female victims or in our database 161 00:08:22.360 --> 00:08:24.120 that we know about it, and any serial killings we 162 00:08:24.199 --> 00:08:27.199 hear about. But so that's what happened. And then so 163 00:08:27.959 --> 00:08:29.759 I had it all and I was reading through it 164 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.600 and literally I'm driving down the road in my phone 165 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:37.279 rings and it's people from History Press and they said, 166 00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:39.480 that's a public company. They said, hey, we saw you 167 00:08:39.600 --> 00:08:42.080 wrote that book. That homicide book's doing pretty well. You 168 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:43.600 saw quite a few of copies and said, yeah, I have. 169 00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:47.759 And they go, we're looking for true crime, semi historic, 170 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:51.720 like twenty or thirty years minimum old. That would be interesting. 171 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:53.360 Do you have any cases to like that you know of? 172 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:55.759 And I'm thinking, are you kidding me? I just read 173 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:58.919 this case, so yeah, I said, oh yeah, I have 174 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.960 something in mind. So yeah, they said, they emailed me 175 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:05.159 some slips and filet of proposal. The only thing they 176 00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:07.559 were nervous about was that little kids were involved in 177 00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.000 which is always a it's hard to write about that. 178 00:09:10.120 --> 00:09:11.919 So that was their only hitch. But finally they said, no, 179 00:09:12.039 --> 00:09:13.799 write the book. So I did. 180 00:09:16.639 --> 00:09:20.080 A fantastic Did you talk about in the introduction that 181 00:09:20.279 --> 00:09:23.519 you had particularly some help because you know, by the 182 00:09:23.600 --> 00:09:27.080 time something like this happens thirty years later, twenty thirty 183 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:31.799 years later, some people are passed away. So just briefly 184 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:35.720 tell us where you did get some incredible cooperation from 185 00:09:35.720 --> 00:09:38.120 people that were still living that were connected to the case. 186 00:09:38.360 --> 00:09:41.519 Yeah. Well, it started with I was hutting down going 187 00:09:41.559 --> 00:09:43.440 to find detectives who work on it, and most of them, 188 00:09:43.480 --> 00:09:46.639 a lot of them had passed away. But I happen 189 00:09:46.679 --> 00:09:49.720 to know the mayor of the town of Renton, and 190 00:09:49.879 --> 00:09:51.799 so I sent him an email, Hey, listen, I'm trying 191 00:09:51.799 --> 00:09:54.799 to I'm looking into this case. The onlybody is anybody 192 00:09:54.879 --> 00:09:57.000 still around? And he hooked me up with a city 193 00:09:57.039 --> 00:09:59.759 council and that was a retired Renton policeman that was 194 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:02.759 on the department back then, and then he I went 195 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:05.519 to his house and met him, and he called this guy, 196 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:07.240 called this guy and gave me all these guys that 197 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:09.720 were still alive that worked on the case. So I 198 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:13.360 started talking to them and getting their information. The judge 199 00:10:13.480 --> 00:10:16.480 in the case, his son was a prosecutor that I knew, 200 00:10:16.519 --> 00:10:19.120 and I, you know, I presumed his dad was gone, 201 00:10:19.559 --> 00:10:21.240 but I said, hey, your dad worked on this case. 202 00:10:21.279 --> 00:10:22.320 And then he goes, you want to talk to you 203 00:10:22.320 --> 00:10:24.320 about it? He's still around. I said, you're kidding, So 204 00:10:24.720 --> 00:10:27.120 he's in his nineties. I got a hold of him. Yeah, 205 00:10:27.879 --> 00:10:30.679 the elected prosecutor at the time. I got a hold 206 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:34.039 of him and he was real cooperative. And then one 207 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:38.720 of the other prosecutors in the case was was somebody 208 00:10:38.720 --> 00:10:40.440 I knew because he was still when I was working, 209 00:10:40.480 --> 00:10:42.679 and I talked to him, and then as a matter 210 00:10:42.679 --> 00:10:44.399 of fact, you know that was probably could find. And 211 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:46.440 then just today I got an email from one of 212 00:10:46.480 --> 00:10:48.559 the defense attorneys that I didn't know was still alive. 213 00:10:48.879 --> 00:10:50.559 I said, man, I wish i'd got this email from 214 00:10:50.600 --> 00:10:53.799 you before I wrote the book. Another good resource, and 215 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:55.960 I'm going to talk to him later. But so that's 216 00:10:56.000 --> 00:10:58.159 you know that I just was snipping around where I 217 00:10:58.200 --> 00:11:00.440 could get it, talking to people, and because of the 218 00:11:00.600 --> 00:11:02.000 events that went on in this case, there are a 219 00:11:02.000 --> 00:11:04.600 lot of tristan turns that people remembered it really well, 220 00:11:05.360 --> 00:11:06.919 you know. And then a couple of them, well, one 221 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:10.159 of the proscooters was no longer alive. He just died 222 00:11:10.159 --> 00:11:12.759 a year before. But his son, who was himself a 223 00:11:12.799 --> 00:11:15.600 former prosecutor is now a private attorney, knew all about 224 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.320 this case because his dad talked to him all the 225 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.799 time about it because it really bothered him because these 226 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:22.600 two six year old boys that were some of the victims. 227 00:11:22.879 --> 00:11:25.519 This guy was talking to the attorney now was six 228 00:11:25.559 --> 00:11:27.559 when it happened, and his dad was prosecuting the case, 229 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:29.440 and he said it really affected him. And when he 230 00:11:29.519 --> 00:11:32.440 himself became a prosecutor, they talked about this case a lot, 231 00:11:33.000 --> 00:11:35.559 and then he was a great resource. So you know, 232 00:11:35.679 --> 00:11:36.960 like I said, I just it was just kind of 233 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:39.159 be in. You got to being protective right down. Your 234 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:40.799 witness doesn't talk to him. That's what I did. 235 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:47.360 Right now, you described for those people that didn't live 236 00:11:47.440 --> 00:11:51.039 in nineteen sixty nine, and so many years have passed 237 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:54.879 about the turbulent time it was in America. Richard Nixon 238 00:11:55.000 --> 00:11:57.879 was his first year of presidency, there was a protest 239 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:00.559 on the streets in America over the Vietnam War. There 240 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:04.440 was the Apollo eleven moon landing, and the previous summer 241 00:12:04.600 --> 00:12:08.360 people were shocked, to say the least, by the murders 242 00:12:08.519 --> 00:12:11.600 by the Charles Manson cult as you write. And this 243 00:12:11.799 --> 00:12:14.720 was a few years before Ted Bundy stocked women in 244 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:17.320 the local area, and the term serial killer, as we 245 00:12:17.399 --> 00:12:21.559 said in the introduction, was not yet in the American lexicon. 246 00:12:22.600 --> 00:12:26.159 Take us to Renton, Washington, you say, is one hundred 247 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:29.360 thousand people in twenty and nineteen, but in nineteen sixty 248 00:12:29.480 --> 00:12:33.600 nine it was a small place. Tell us where Renton 249 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:38.360 is situated. And then tell us about December sixteenth, nineteen 250 00:12:38.440 --> 00:12:43.919 sixty nine, and a guy named Edward Stewart is doing 251 00:12:43.960 --> 00:12:46.759 some fishing right so well. 252 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:52.440 Renton is about eleven miles southeast of downtown Seattle. That's 253 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:55.919 the whole east side of Seattle. Border of the Seattle 254 00:12:55.919 --> 00:12:57.639 on the east side is Lake Washington, which is a 255 00:12:57.720 --> 00:12:59.799 huge lake that runs from north of the city all 256 00:12:59.840 --> 00:13:02.159 the way down to south of the city. And Renton 257 00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:05.120 is at the south tip of Lake Washington. There's a 258 00:13:05.279 --> 00:13:07.840 river called the Cedar River that dumps into Lake Washington 259 00:13:08.519 --> 00:13:13.279 and Renton is there. The Renton is the only thing 260 00:13:13.320 --> 00:13:15.639 Renton is known for really is that Jimmy Hendricks is 261 00:13:15.679 --> 00:13:18.240 buried there in the cemetery. He's the most famous for it. 262 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:20.559 So he the. 263 00:13:22.519 --> 00:13:26.200 The There's a Boeing plant in Renton, that's the biggest employer. 264 00:13:26.240 --> 00:13:28.720 In nineteen sixty nine, the population was about ten thousand, 265 00:13:29.279 --> 00:13:33.240 but the Boeing plant there was put out bombers B 266 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:36.240 twenty nine during the war during World War two, and 267 00:13:36.360 --> 00:13:40.240 then after the war ended it it kind of switched 268 00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:45.679 over to seven O seven's and then the area grew 269 00:13:45.720 --> 00:13:48.960 and grew and grew. Like I said, it's it's over 270 00:13:49.039 --> 00:13:51.960 one hundred thousand now and actually the seven thirty seven 271 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:54.519 max is being built that the Renton plant now or was. 272 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:58.120 So that's that's that's the history of it's grown. It's 273 00:13:58.240 --> 00:14:01.080 it's like anything else. That was a small town with 274 00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:03.759 a small town seal down, but now it's the bosom 275 00:14:03.799 --> 00:14:07.159 of suburbia, you know, with a you know, shopping mall 276 00:14:07.360 --> 00:14:09.960 and call that stuff into a lot of people. And well, 277 00:14:10.000 --> 00:14:12.360 the police department at that time it was only about 278 00:14:12.879 --> 00:14:16.679 forty people the whole police department, and they had five detectives, 279 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:19.720 and so, yeah, it was a very small operation. They 280 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:21.639 had very few murders in rent and they'd go three, 281 00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:24.320 four or five years without a single murder, and when 282 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:26.879 it did happen, it was usually a bar fight that 283 00:14:26.960 --> 00:14:28.720 got out of control, or you know what we used 284 00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:30.879 to call the smoking gun murders. You know, nobody it's 285 00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:33.000 not a who done it. Not everybody knew who did it. Yeah, 286 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.360 and that's what they're their only experience of murders. So anyway, 287 00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:39.720 on that December day in nineteen sixty nine, this guy 288 00:14:39.960 --> 00:14:42.639 is walking down the Stewart walking down to the river 289 00:14:43.200 --> 00:14:45.639 because he wants to go fishing that afternoon. He's checking 290 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:48.600 their conditions and there's a muddy trail that at that 291 00:14:48.799 --> 00:14:52.240 time went along the west side of the river bank, 292 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:55.639 and he was taking that and he went around the corner. 293 00:14:55.679 --> 00:14:58.399 He saw, of course, what they always think a mannequin 294 00:14:58.639 --> 00:15:01.480 laying on the ground. As he got closer, he realized 295 00:15:01.559 --> 00:15:03.279 it wasn't a manneicut at all. It was a woman 296 00:15:03.360 --> 00:15:07.200 and she was dead and nude. So he was kind 297 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:09.879 of shocked and turned around and ran back, and he 298 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:11.759 ran into a buddy of his on the way back, 299 00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.399 and he told him what we saw him. They came 300 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:14.799 back and the guy looked at it to make sure, 301 00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:17.320 and then they went and called the police. And that's 302 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:21.360 how this this whole case started. So the police came. 303 00:15:21.480 --> 00:15:24.960 Obviously they didn't they had no idea who this woman was. 304 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:27.600 They had no idea what was going on. But there 305 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:31.080 was some There were some papers backpack laying nearby. They 306 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:35.240 had had some papers in it, like school papers and 307 00:15:35.320 --> 00:15:39.720 a name, and so they looked at the papers and 308 00:15:40.919 --> 00:15:43.399 figured out the name was Carol Erickson on the papers. 309 00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:45.039 Now they didn't know if that was really this person 310 00:15:45.679 --> 00:15:48.279 there were She's obviously been at that Yeah, she had 311 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:50.799 been The shoes on her back at that point, her 312 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:52.840 hands were over her head, she had a sweater on 313 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:55.200 that was like mostly pulled up, exposing her breast, and 314 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:56.720 she was nude from the way. The rest of her 315 00:15:56.759 --> 00:15:59.720 body was nude on the way down. So when they 316 00:15:59.759 --> 00:16:02.200 met Lexander got there and they rolled the body, thought 317 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:04.039 she had one single stab wound to the center of 318 00:16:04.120 --> 00:16:08.200 her back and that she had been also strangled her shoelaces, 319 00:16:09.600 --> 00:16:12.759 so that's what they had. They went they finally identified 320 00:16:12.799 --> 00:16:17.039 her as Carol Ericson. I talking to friends and family, 321 00:16:17.840 --> 00:16:20.600 and it ended up that Carol was a student at 322 00:16:20.600 --> 00:16:23.399 a local vocational school up the hill. She was nineteen 323 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.440 years old, up the top of the hill from where 324 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.039 she was there was a vocational school and she was 325 00:16:29.159 --> 00:16:32.039 in culinary arts there. And she lived in an apartment 326 00:16:32.159 --> 00:16:34.600 with a friend right down town, not too far from 327 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.720 where she was found. And she was walking. She'd walked 328 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:40.720 to the library the night before to study for some 329 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.960 tests she had coming up in her class. And instead 330 00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:49.039 of taking the city streets to she walked this path. 331 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:51.879 She would walk this path down the river. And you know, 332 00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:54.000 people told her when she went there it was light, 333 00:16:54.159 --> 00:16:56.039 it was okay, but people said, yeah, you shouldn't walk 334 00:16:56.039 --> 00:16:58.279 down there dark. But she just blew him off, you know, oh, no, 335 00:16:58.440 --> 00:17:02.480 it's fine. She So she was apparently on her way 336 00:17:02.559 --> 00:17:04.680 back because she'd been to the library. She was on 337 00:17:04.759 --> 00:17:07.039 her way back when she was attacked from behind. And 338 00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:10.039 of course, like everything else, you get whenever there's a 339 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.880 who's donnet murder, especially if you've never done those heads, 340 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.880 you're spinning your wheels, You're going down all kinds of 341 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:17.880 these rabbit holes that have nothing at all to do 342 00:17:18.000 --> 00:17:20.200 with your case. And that's what happened in this case, 343 00:17:20.200 --> 00:17:24.119 they spent weeks going down rabbit holes, nothing solid ever happened, 344 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:25.559 and it kind of just was petering out. 345 00:17:28.079 --> 00:17:30.440 Who are that you introduced to detectives are important to 346 00:17:30.519 --> 00:17:37.000 the story, Detective Don Dashna and Wally Hume. Right, you 347 00:17:37.079 --> 00:17:40.440 also talk about another person that's in the story reoccurring 348 00:17:40.759 --> 00:17:46.079 is doctor Gail Wilson, who's the medical examiner. What does 349 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:50.599 she find that they don't ascertain at the crime scene, 350 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:52.960 these detectives. What does she find out in this medical 351 00:17:53.039 --> 00:17:54.839 examination of Carol? 352 00:17:55.079 --> 00:17:59.000 Actually, actually doctor Wilson is a man. It's Gail like 353 00:17:59.079 --> 00:18:04.519 the man. Sorry, well they find out when doctor Wilson. 354 00:18:04.759 --> 00:18:07.720 First of all, he was a long time medical executor. 355 00:18:07.799 --> 00:18:10.000 I mean this was in nineteen sixty nine. I was 356 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:11.519 looking when I was still working. I looked into a 357 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.480 murder from nineteen thirty six of a little girl and 358 00:18:14.559 --> 00:18:16.440 I pulled that file out and he did the autopsy 359 00:18:16.519 --> 00:18:19.680 in that case. And then since I've been working at 360 00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:23.000 HITS now, I looked at a nineteen seventy seventh case 361 00:18:23.480 --> 00:18:25.200 and he did the autopsy in that. So, I mean 362 00:18:25.240 --> 00:18:29.599 he was a long time medical examinter. But he determined 363 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.880 that Carol had been. The fatal was a stabdoor back 364 00:18:34.599 --> 00:18:37.039 that had punctured her heart and killed her almost instantly. 365 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:41.359 She has also strangled either paramortem like at the moment 366 00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:44.759 of death or post mortem with her shoelaces, and she 367 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:46.960 had been sexually assaulted. That's what he found. 368 00:18:49.720 --> 00:18:54.519 So how do they undertake to investigate this and what 369 00:18:54.680 --> 00:18:55.279 does it lead to? 370 00:18:56.759 --> 00:18:59.160 Well, they did a lot of work. I mean, it 371 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:00.480 didn't need to any of it, you know, that's the 372 00:19:00.519 --> 00:19:03.200 same because they didn't have any I tell people all 373 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:08.599 the time that detectives of that era had basically a 374 00:19:08.680 --> 00:19:12.000 hammer and a saw, where I have an entire construction 375 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:14.720 company with power tools at my disposal of the day 376 00:19:14.759 --> 00:19:17.759 as far as the science that's available. So they had nothing, 377 00:19:18.000 --> 00:19:20.480 no tools, and it didn't unless you got a witness 378 00:19:20.559 --> 00:19:22.640 or somebody. You know, they went, they went to the 379 00:19:22.680 --> 00:19:24.599 library and talked to everybody, put things in the paper. 380 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:26.839 Were you at the library on Monday night? Did you 381 00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:28.960 see this girl there? And you know, they got a 382 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:31.119 couple of leads about creepy guys are hanging out by 383 00:19:31.160 --> 00:19:33.720 the front. But you know, like most of those leads, 384 00:19:33.759 --> 00:19:35.559 they just kind of peter out. They could never figure 385 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:39.839 anything out. So that like this case kind of just slowly, 386 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:42.400 slowly faded in activity because they didn't have much wanter 387 00:19:42.519 --> 00:19:44.759 go on, and it just kind of went cold in 388 00:19:44.839 --> 00:19:46.200 the first two months. 389 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:51.559 Right, they even talk about detectives making a plea to 390 00:19:51.640 --> 00:19:57.480 the public through the newspaper's Seattle Times. You talk about 391 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:03.079 September nineteenth, nineteen seventies, so maybe nine months later, he's 392 00:20:03.119 --> 00:20:08.279 still in Rentin. A girl named Juanne Marie Zuloff, a 393 00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:12.000 seventeen year old, tell us about what happens with her. 394 00:20:13.640 --> 00:20:18.039 Okay, actually that her address was an unincorporated King County 395 00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:20.119 just outside the Renton city limits. It was a Rentin 396 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:22.839 mailing address, and today it is in the city of Lenton. 397 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:25.880 But she was home with her She lived there with 398 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:29.240 her parents and sister, and her parents have been gone 399 00:20:29.279 --> 00:20:31.880 all day and then they came home and they were 400 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:33.400 going to make dinner, and she says, I'm gonna go 401 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:36.400