Speaker 1: Imagine the place where you can escape for a day,
Speaker 1: get immersed in a world of rooms, inspiration and expertise,
Speaker 1: where you can lay in luxury, accommodation and kids cam
Speaker 1: fees from ninety five sets. Tickets are free to everyone
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Speaker 1: out at the gia Ikia the wonderful every day.
Speaker 2: You know that person who just cut you off on
Speaker 2: the highway, that one that turd behind the wheel. You know,
Speaker 2: malicious YouTube commenters, but also Dolly Parton and your ex
Speaker 2: officemate's patchinchilla. What do all these beings have in common?
Speaker 2: E f and love carbs man, love them all of us.
Speaker 2: We're just walking breathing dumpsters of bread and fruit and
Speaker 2: starch and saccarides. Even if you don't eat many carbs,
Speaker 2: your cells are still composed of them, and you'd beat
Speaker 2: up quite a creek in their absence. Thanks carbs. Hey, Hi,
Speaker 2: it's me it's Ali Ward. This is ologies Hi. So
Speaker 2: in this episode we'll talk about what a carb is
Speaker 2: and why people are in labs studying them, and if
Speaker 2: they wear lab coats or not, and how Harrison Ford
Speaker 2: is involved, what kind of diet we should eat to
Speaker 2: feel less like post holiday marshmallow, and which diets are fads?
Speaker 2: How much sugar is bad for you? And why you
Speaker 2: know what, it's not your fault that you would risk
Speaker 2: early death to lick brownie batter from a bowl with
Speaker 2: your fingers, and also why does any of this even matter? Now?
Speaker 2: I want to say before we get into this episode.
Speaker 2: One thing I've gotten some tweets about recently is a
Speaker 2: closure to the Feral Audio network. People are like, Ali,
Speaker 2: what's happening with Ologies? Heads up? Nothing. Ologies hasn't been
Speaker 2: on Feral Audio since episode one. I left in September,
Speaker 2: so Ologies continues. So thank you to everyone who has
Speaker 2: merch or is a patron, and to everyone who tells
Speaker 2: friends or tweets or subscribes or taps the guy next
Speaker 2: to you on the subway and is on and you
Speaker 2: should listen to us. Also, thank you to everyone who
Speaker 2: leaves reviews on iTunes, which helps the podcast stay up
Speaker 2: in the charts. It's amazing. It's been in like the
Speaker 2: top fifty or top twenty or top ten even since
Speaker 2: we started, so that's crazy. Also, I read all your
Speaker 2: reviews and I love them. Do you want to hear
Speaker 2: a few from this week. I'm going to read you
Speaker 2: one of my favorite I'll read you my favorite one.
Speaker 2: My favorite one this week was by the joy Sandwich podcast,
Speaker 2: which is another great podcast I really want to go on.
Speaker 2: They say, if you want to learn all the things
Speaker 2: while feeling insignificant and humbled and like a tiny clump
Speaker 2: of Adams ologies is your jam. It's the greatest, so
Speaker 2: much learning in silly's and just the best reminder that
Speaker 2: we are here together on this pale blue dot. Also,
Speaker 2: Lyvi eight twenty one says she wishes she was my
Speaker 2: best friend. Is that possible, because I'd be rad I
Speaker 2: don't see why not. Libby, consider it done. We do
Speaker 2: have to get matching tattoos, which we will have to
Speaker 2: carve with steak knives. So if you're still up for that,
Speaker 2: holler at me. Okay. I also want to thank everyone
Speaker 2: for your patients. Of the holidays episodes were a little
Speaker 2: more sporadic. I just I wanted to get glycobiology up.
Speaker 2: Last week I was visiting my parents in the woods,
Speaker 2: and there was all this cool wood to be chopped,
Speaker 2: and I got to help fix a furnace which ruled,
Speaker 2: and there was a friend's marathon on and you know what,
Speaker 2: it was just really nice, so I took the week off.
Speaker 2: So thank you for your patients. Okay, so onto our guest,
Speaker 2: loosen your belts and just unbutton the top one of
Speaker 2: your pants. No one cares. Get ready to freebase some
Speaker 2: pixie sticks because we're diving face first into carbs. When
Speaker 2: the woman who was a graduate student at the University
Speaker 2: of Georgia at the Complex Carbohydrate Research Center, which is
Speaker 2: a thing please feast on the knowledge of glcobiology, Michelle ducois.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, so I'm Michelle Ducroix.
Speaker 2: Now Michelle is originally from Athens, Georgia, but she did
Speaker 2: her undergrad in Connecticut, where it is very cold, and
Speaker 2: she was checking out schools for graduate research and an
Speaker 2: advisor at the University of Georgia offered to her tour
Speaker 2: of this really unique, crazy research facility on her campus.
Speaker 2: She was like, what is this.
Speaker 3: Since so you took me on a tour of the
Speaker 3: building and he's like, we study complex carbohydrates, which is
Speaker 3: just a very underappreciated macro molecule.
Speaker 2: It's the underdog.
Speaker 4: It is what a it really is is.
Speaker 3: So you know, there's like four macromolecules that make up.
Speaker 4: Life.
Speaker 3: There's nucleic acids, lipids, proteins, and carbohydrates, really, and people
Speaker 3: give a lot of attention to the other three obviously,
Speaker 3: like DNA and RNA are like super hot, and that's
Speaker 3: totally fine.
Speaker 4: They're super important too.
Speaker 3: But what a lot of people don't realize is that
Speaker 3: literally every single cell in the human body, in the
Speaker 3: animal body, in bodies is covered in a layer of
Speaker 3: complex carbohydrates. You have to use certain microscopes to really
Speaker 3: be able to see this very well, but essentially, if
Speaker 3: you think of a tennis ball and the yellow fuzz
Speaker 3: on the outside looks a lot like the actual outside
Speaker 3: of a cell.
Speaker 2: These carbohydrate chains are sticking out of a part of
Speaker 2: your cell membranes called the lipid bilayer. It's called that
Speaker 2: because it's two sheets of back to back fats that
Speaker 2: help in controlling what comes in and out of your
Speaker 2: cells and which other cells your cells hang out with,
Speaker 2: et cetera. But it's not just like a smooth, glossy surface.
Speaker 3: We think of these nice like organized like fluid model
Speaker 3: of the lipid bilayer, but in the lipid violator BI layer,
Speaker 3: violator bilayer violator bi layer.
Speaker 2: Lipid bilayer is hard to say. It's hard to say,
Speaker 2: but it's fun to say. When I was in biology,
Speaker 2: studying bio in high school, I used to get the
Speaker 2: words lipid bilayer stuck in my head like a song
Speaker 2: or a grocery list, Like I just be bop around
Speaker 2: going lip it by layer limpet by, it's so good.
Speaker 4: Violator bilayer.
Speaker 3: Actually, like proteins and different types of lipids that have
Speaker 3: complex carbohydrates just jutting off of.
Speaker 4: Them, what do they do?
Speaker 3: They're really important for cellular communication, really, like for the
Speaker 3: most part. For instance, two proteins that may have or
Speaker 3: a protein that may have a carbohydrate motif on the outside.
Speaker 4: Is what it would be called.
Speaker 2: Fancy, I know I have a carbohydrate motif. Indeed, in
Speaker 2: my guest bathroom, we've opted for a carbohydrateti.
Speaker 3: If as a carbo hydrate motif on the outside it.
Speaker 3: There could be a neighboring protein that has a carbohydrate
Speaker 3: binding segment, and so those would be called carbohydrate binding proteins. Okay,
Speaker 3: So it's a way for two cells to interact with
Speaker 3: each other.
Speaker 2: And why do they want to bind? Why do the
Speaker 2: cells want to bind?
Speaker 3: A lot of times it initiates other signaling in the cell.
Speaker 2: Like what so I am just straight up interrogating this
Speaker 2: poor woman.
Speaker 3: For instance, bacteria have a lot of carbohydrates on their
Speaker 3: cell surface too. This isn't just like a you know,
Speaker 3: human thing. This is any type cell type, and immune
Speaker 3: cells will actually bind carbohydrates on the bacteria cell and
Speaker 3: that's how they recognize.
Speaker 4: They're like, oh, wait, this isn't a human.
Speaker 3: Carbohydrate because back to you express their own types of
Speaker 3: complex carbohydrates. It's like, wait, this isn't a human and
Speaker 3: then they'll initiate the immuneistubponds. Really yeah, So it's a
Speaker 3: huge it's a huge player in immunology.
Speaker 4: There's a lot of studies.
Speaker 3: So at the center that I work out, there's actually
Speaker 3: several immunologists studying these, uh, the carbo hydrate binding interactions
Speaker 3: between pathogens.
Speaker 4: And the host or the human body.
Speaker 2: So sticking out of a lipid bilayer of cell membranes
Speaker 2: are like party streamers, if you will, composed of all
Speaker 2: of these different sugar molecules, like you know those things
Speaker 2: in gas stations or oil change places that are like
Speaker 2: whip around those weird wind socks that dance around they're
Speaker 2: like that, but they're made out of sugar, and they
Speaker 2: can be chunkier too, with just a few carbohydrates each.
Speaker 2: They can be short and squat, or they can form
Speaker 2: these long chains called sacharite chains. They can be like
Speaker 2: one hundred sugars long. So why are all of your
Speaker 2: cells and animal cell and bacteria cells wearing these extravagant
Speaker 2: feather boas made of sugars? What is happening? What's going on?
Speaker 2: What kind of craziness is this? Well, most of the
Speaker 2: time they think it's for signaling other cells.
Speaker 3: Probably, I have to admit a lot of the field
Speaker 3: of glycobiology is figuring out what these carbohydrates do. We
Speaker 3: don't one hundred percent, no for every single case.
Speaker 2: How do you see them?
Speaker 3: Actually, the way I analyze them is using mass spectrometry.
Speaker 2: Okay, and shoot light room and check out a rainbow.
Speaker 4: Uh, not quite.
Speaker 2: I have no idea what I'm talking about here. I
Speaker 2: got mass spectrometry very confused with spectroscopy, I think, which
Speaker 2: involves rainbows and light and it looks like the cover
Speaker 2: of Pink Floid's nineteen seventy three album Dark Side of
Speaker 2: the Moon, which then set me down a path of
Speaker 2: why did they use that image? Well, turns out one
Speaker 2: of the Pink Floyd album designers saw the image of
Speaker 2: a prism in a physics textbook and was like, dude,
Speaker 2: that that's dope.
Speaker 4: Let's use it.
Speaker 2: Now. Remember, light splitting has nothing to do with what
Speaker 2: Michelle does. She uses mass spectrous No, mass spectrometry, yes, okay,
Speaker 2: that involves ions. I wanted a visual for mass spectrometry.
Speaker 2: And the machine just looks like a big xerox machine
Speaker 2: or a printer that weighs like five hundred pounds. This
Speaker 2: is how it works.
Speaker 4: Nothing to do with rainbows, and it shoots them into
Speaker 4: the instrument.
Speaker 3: And this instrument literally just measures the mass to how
Speaker 3: much charge sticks to it, So how many like little
Speaker 3: sodium bits stick to it, and then you can identify
Speaker 3: and then we can IDENTI them based on their mass
Speaker 3: to charge ratio.
Speaker 2: What was your first day like in the lab?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: Wow, my first day. So I rotated through a lot
Speaker 3: of labs before I finally settled on one lab. And
Speaker 3: my first day I actually knew that this was the
Speaker 3: lab I was going to join because I just done
Speaker 3: a rotation in a lab that was filled with guys
Speaker 3: and as much as I love sports, like, all they did.
Speaker 4: Was talk about was football.
Speaker 3: It was It drove me crazy and I walked into
Speaker 3: this new lab.
Speaker 2: So on our first day, another grad student walks up
Speaker 2: and says, oh.
Speaker 4: My god, I love your leggings. Where did they come from?
Speaker 3: And as much as I hate admitting it, I was
Speaker 3: just like, this is my home. I knew I needed
Speaker 3: somewhere that I could be comfortable and just talk about
Speaker 3: what I felt like talking about most days. And it
Speaker 3: was great, but my kind of early on in the lab,
Speaker 3: there were a lot of techniques I needed to learn.
Speaker 3: I knew nothing about glycobiology, I knew nothing about mass spectrometry,
Speaker 3: and so it was a pretty steep learning curve. But
Speaker 3: there are a lot of grad students in my lab
Speaker 3: and they were all very very helpful in terms of
Speaker 3: helping me learn the techniques that I needed. But it
Speaker 3: was overwhelming for a little bit and it was kind
Speaker 3: of like, what am I doing here?
Speaker 2: What kind of leggings were they? I don't know, I
Speaker 2: had to ask. They must have been like legit leggings.
Speaker 3: They were actually just like black leggings from like old Navy.
Speaker 3: But she she was just like, oh, they like, don't
Speaker 3: look like the sad thin kind that when you bend
Speaker 3: over you've got problems. She was like, oh, they look
Speaker 3: really good, and I was like cool, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So did you have to learn how to pipett things
Speaker 2: and look at things through a microscope or so?
Speaker 3: Pipetting and microscopy were actually things that I knew how
Speaker 3: to do. I did a lot of research in my
Speaker 3: undergrad and even some in high school, so I actually
Speaker 3: those were skills that I was pretty pretty good with.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of like analytical and chemistry techniques that
Speaker 3: I didn't really know, and then I do a lot
Speaker 3: of cell culture.
Speaker 2: So for Michelle's thesis project, she is researching the effects
Speaker 2: of glycolipids on a disease called salt and pepper syndrome.
Speaker 2: Name such because it causes spots of hyper and hypopigmentation
Speaker 2: as well as seizures and intellectual disability. So it's rare
Speaker 2: and it's not good. And if you're curious and want
Speaker 2: to do just some light reading, you can go this
Speaker 2: title of a paper. It's called a mutation in gangliocide
Speaker 2: biosynthetic enzyme results in salt and pepper syndrome. A New
Speaker 2: York a neurocutaneous disorder with altered glycolipid and glycoprotein glycolisation
Speaker 2: glyco glyc Michelle is just like, you know, low key
Speaker 2: working toward understanding it and finding better therapies for it,
Speaker 2: just you know, like a boss. What were you like
Speaker 2: as a kid, Did you have microscopes? Did you like science? Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was actually really I guess lucky in that I
Speaker 3: was exposed to science and I really.
Speaker 4: Liked science at a young age.
Speaker 3: My dad is a veterinarian and he actually teaches at
Speaker 3: the EGA Vet School, and he would always let me
Speaker 3: come like hang out in his lab with him, and
Speaker 3: so I learned how to use like a microscope at
Speaker 3: a pretty young age. And I remember like a science
Speaker 3: or project one time he like, let me take a
Speaker 3: bunch of like ad our plates and swab bacteria on
Speaker 3: them and grow bacteria.
Speaker 2: And what kind of stuff did you grow? Or what
Speaker 2: kind of stuff did you swab? Yeah?
Speaker 3: It was one of those ones who you like, we
Speaker 3: the Q tip and swab like the door handle and
Speaker 3: people's hands.
Speaker 2: Honestly, how cute would it be if your veterinarian's daughter
Speaker 2: asked to swab your hands so she could grow a culture.
Speaker 2: I would be like, yes, please do and then also
Speaker 2: take me directly to the hospital because I'm currently in
Speaker 2: the process of dying because that was fatally adorable. You
Speaker 2: have killed me with your cuteness. Also, Michelle, thank you
Speaker 2: for growing up to cure diseases you roll. Do you
Speaker 2: have any favorite movies that involve glac a biology? Are
Speaker 2: there any movies?
Speaker 3: There is a movie about glycobiology. Yes, it's called Extraordinary Measures. Okay,
Speaker 3: it came out in twenty ten. I believe I have
Speaker 3: to admit I haven't seen it. What It's not on
Speaker 3: any of the streaming services, and I really like, can't
Speaker 3: find a copy to watch?
Speaker 2: Oh have you not heard of this movie? That makes sense?
Speaker 2: On Rotten Tomatoes, it scored a are you ready for this?
Speaker 2: A twenty eight percent fresh rating, meaning that seventy two
Speaker 2: percent of critics would have lobbed decayed food at the
Speaker 2: screen if they had a chance, despite a whole bunch
Speaker 2: of movie stars being in it.
Speaker 3: Ouch and what's crazy is like it has a Harrison
Speaker 3: Ford and like Brendan Fraser.
Speaker 2: It's like and it's about glycobiology, and it's about glycobiology.
Speaker 3: It's about this, like a businessman I believe, whose two
Speaker 3: kids are diagnosed with a disorder, a rare disorder, and
Speaker 3: it turns out it is what's called a congenital disorder
Speaker 3: of glycostelation. So any disorder that's caused by problems in
Speaker 3: making glycoproteins or glycolipids is just called a congenital disorder
Speaker 3: of glycostelation. Okay, so it just means a gene involved
Speaker 3: in glycobiology or glycosylation has been messed up.
Speaker 2: Glycosylation sounds like I want to drop an album called
Speaker 2: I Know.
Speaker 4: So it's a cool word.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I no, I agree with that.
Speaker 2: So in the movie, Brendan Fraser and Carrie Russell's two
Speaker 2: kids have a disease called Pompey's disease, which is a
Speaker 2: real disease. This is based on a real family. He's
Speaker 2: a pharmaceutical executive. He wants to find out more about it.
Speaker 2: He wants to find a treatment, and so he drops
Speaker 2: everything and he and this one scientist played by Harrison
Speaker 2: Ford go on a mad race to study this disorder
Speaker 2: and try to find a cure for it. In the trailer,
Speaker 2: which is like three minutes long, someone says it different
Speaker 2: parts are you crazy? And then later are you insane?
Speaker 2: So they were really they were like, you know, once
Speaker 2: isn't enough, let's put it in there again.
Speaker 3: But yeah, there's this one phrase that like Harrison Ford
Speaker 3: says and he's like, this is just what I've heard
Speaker 3: from other people.
Speaker 4: He's like, don't you know about glycobiology?
Speaker 3: And it's like the answer to that for most people
Speaker 3: is no, No, I don't know about glcobiology, like very
Speaker 3: much negative. No the majority of the population unfortunately. But
Speaker 3: it is really really important.
Speaker 2: So sometimes what makes a good article doesn't always make
Speaker 2: a good movie. That's okay. You try things, you try it.
Speaker 3: Maybe we need to get that movie out there more.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe Netflix should stream it now.
Speaker 2: I think we should put out a call if anyone
Speaker 2: has a copy of this, they need to reach out
Speaker 2: to you.
Speaker 4: That would be awesome.
Speaker 2: Come on, I wanted to see just how elusive this
Speaker 2: film is. And it turns out you can totally rent
Speaker 2: it and stream it for like four dollars on Amazon,
Speaker 2: where it enjoys a healthy four point five stars. It
Speaker 2: is undetermined if glycobiologists are are the only ones watching
Speaker 2: the movie. When you tell people you're a glycobiologist. What's
Speaker 2: the first question they usually ask you?
Speaker 4: What is glycobiology?
Speaker 3: Which I try to give just a succinct It's the
Speaker 3: study of complex carbohydrates, but not like the ones. I
Speaker 3: don't study bread. A lot of people are like, oh, like,
Speaker 3: so should I eat white bread? And I'm like, I
Speaker 3: don't know, sure if you like it?
Speaker 2: Okay. Number one, live your life. Number two, if your
Speaker 2: life confuses you as mine does, there's a reason now.
Speaker 2: For years, people have been saying that white bread and
Speaker 2: refined flowers are the food stuffs of satan because there's
Speaker 2: not enough fiber in them to slow down digestion. You
Speaker 2: get too much sugar into your blood at once, thus
Speaker 2: taxing your pancreas and leading to type two diabetes. But
Speaker 2: a study came out in June twenty seventeen that said quote.
Speaker 2: Researchers found no overall differences in glycemic control when people
Speaker 2: ate white bread compared to whole meal sourdough bread. They
Speaker 2: apparently found that some people responded better to whitebread, others
Speaker 2: responded better to whole meal sourdough bread, and the response
Speaker 2: could be predicted by the types of bacteria living in
Speaker 2: your gut. Now, hold up. So this was only a
Speaker 2: week long study with only twenty volunteers. This is essentially
Speaker 2: like if at a family reunion you are like, hey,
Speaker 2: half of you guys eat white bread, half you eat wheat.
Speaker 2: Tell me how you feel. Also, two of the researchers
Speaker 2: involved in the study work for a company that quote
Speaker 2: offers to balance your blood sugar with personalized nutrition with
Speaker 2: dietary advice based on the results of stool tests. So
Speaker 2: a couple of the researchers are directly making money off
Speaker 2: of finding out if gut bacteria helps balance your blood sugar.
Speaker 2: So if you're confused, that's because sometimes scientific studies can
Speaker 2: be stretched and interpreted by like us Weekly to mean
Speaker 2: what you want to hear, which is it whatever you want? Okay,
Speaker 2: back to how Michelle handles glycobiology cocktail party talk.
Speaker 4: And then I just I just always have to.
Speaker 3: Do a quick answer that like, it's on all of
Speaker 3: your cells and it's really important for cell signaling and
Speaker 3: your immune system.
Speaker 2: Does your business card take glcobiologist? Should? Now you're you
Speaker 2: met your husband through glycobiology.
Speaker 3: No, actually, so we both study glicobiology. My husband and
Speaker 3: I actually met in high school in Athens. Oh yeah.
Speaker 3: We started dating our senior year of high school, and
Speaker 3: then we both went away for college. I was at
Speaker 3: Yale in Connecticut.
Speaker 2: Meanwhile her high school sweetheart and future husband was at
Speaker 2: Northeastern in Boston, which is about two hours away from
Speaker 2: each other. Did that suck?
Speaker 4: It was manageable in the end.
Speaker 2: When it came to picking at grad school, they both
Speaker 2: liked Georgia. They both happened to pick Lico biology, although
Speaker 2: his main focus isn't on animal cell walls, it's researching
Speaker 2: and generating better plants for biofuels. Can you imagine anything
Speaker 2: more trendy than a car that runs on avocado? It
Speaker 2: would be amazing. Do you guys talk about gcobiology a lot?
Speaker 2: So we do.
Speaker 3: We talked through each other's problems a lot, although I
Speaker 3: have to admit, like I don't know tons about plants
Speaker 3: and he doesn't know tons about like neurological disorders.
Speaker 2: So do she and her husband ever cut carbs? Gasp,
Speaker 2: pearl clutch smelling salts.
Speaker 3: So we never do, like the low carb, high fat
Speaker 3: kind of set up like the Keto diet and the Atkins.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of that.
Speaker 2: You may have heard a lot about the keto diet lately,
Speaker 2: as this little family, little family and billionaires called the Kardashians,
Speaker 2: and also this lady named Beyonce and all these tech
Speaker 2: ceo air quote biohackers have been swearing by it, especially
Speaker 2: the last few months. So is it new. No, It
Speaker 2: was developed in the nineteen twenties as a remedy for
Speaker 2: epilepsy and it's still used today to control seizures. So
Speaker 2: what is the ketogenic diet? How is it different from
Speaker 2: low carb and atkins? And what is the deal? What
Speaker 2: is the deal? Okay? So keto is very low carb,
Speaker 2: less than fifty grams of carbs a day, sometimes lower
Speaker 2: than twenty grams of carbs a day, not just sugar,
Speaker 2: just carbs in general. So your body stores carbohydrates in
Speaker 2: the form of glycogen for fuel, and we take that
Speaker 2: we squirrel it away in the liver and your muscle tissue.
Speaker 2: And when you cut carbs and don't replace those backup stores,
Speaker 2: you run out of glycochen and your body goes into ketosis.
Speaker 2: So that is when you are out of glycogen. So
Speaker 2: you break down fats into fatty acids and ketone bodies
Speaker 2: that are used for fuel for the body and for
Speaker 2: the brain, so you kind of switch over to a
Speaker 2: different fuel system. Now a few things. Each gram of
Speaker 2: glycogen in your body stores is bound to some experts
Speaker 2: say three to four grams of water, So when you
Speaker 2: use up those stores, you lose a bit of water
Speaker 2: weight super fast, which is partly why if you've ever
Speaker 2: been on a low carb diet, for like, I don't know,
Speaker 2: a television job, and then once it's wrapped, you've, like
Speaker 2: I don't know, gone to Little Italy and eaten a
Speaker 2: trough of nyaki, two baskets of bread and tiramisu alone,
Speaker 2: such as the waiter seems to want to ask if
Speaker 2: you've just gotten out of prison. The next day or so,
Speaker 2: you'll be like ten pounds heavier on the scale and
Speaker 2: your denim skirt won't zip. In two thousand and three,
Speaker 2: I'm just saying, each glycogen shows up to your mud
Speaker 2: party with an entourage of like three or four water molecules.
Speaker 2: So when you get rid of the luggage and you
Speaker 2: get rid of some water too, low carb diets are
Speaker 2: helpful for quickly losing water weight for sure, and then
Speaker 2: from there eating for Keto is about sixty five percent fat,
Speaker 2: thirty five percent protein, and five percent carbs. That is
Speaker 2: said to keep your body burning your fat stores and
Speaker 2: also promoting something called atophagy, which is Greek for eating yourself.
Speaker 2: Your body just casually eating itself like a hungry goat,
Speaker 2: going around scanning the cupboards, gobbling up screwed up cells
Speaker 2: and weird bits of scar tissue and extra cancer mess ups,
Speaker 2: and recycling the parts. So that's another reason why people
Speaker 2: like the keto diet is you burn fat really quickly
Speaker 2: when you switch to fat burning ketosis, and possibly it
Speaker 2: can be healthier in other ways. Now there's some controversy
Speaker 2: about atophagy and its role in cancer. On one hand,
Speaker 2: grab tumors and nip them in the bud, but in
Speaker 2: later stages it could promote tumors spreading. I do not
Speaker 2: have the answers for you here, but doctor Yoshinori Oshumi
Speaker 2: is on the case. He just won the Nobel Prize
Speaker 2: in twenty sixteen for his work on atophagy. Google that.
Speaker 2: So you thought you're just gonna learn about carbohydrates and
Speaker 2: how to make your pants button, and now you have
Speaker 2: all kinds of dirt on glycogen and fatty acids and
Speaker 2: cancer and rare diseases, and how much in yaki I
Speaker 2: can eat in a sitting, which is a lot. By
Speaker 2: the way, if you're like, where is the Atkins diet
Speaker 2: and all this the low carbon one where I just
Speaker 2: eat bacon sandwiches with slabs of cheese as the bread,
Speaker 2: and then I eat a mayonnaise milkshake that promotes ketosis too,
Speaker 2: But it's got some stages in terms of carbohydrate levels,
Speaker 2: and the Keto diet is a little more exact and
Speaker 2: less like go forth and drink Keeso my children. I
Speaker 2: will say I have friends on the Keto diet who
Speaker 2: absolutely love it and say they've never felt better and
Speaker 2: have at a ton of weight. So your mileage may vary.
Speaker 2: Do your research ahead of time. Side note, if you're
Speaker 2: trying to get healthier in the new year and lose
Speaker 2: weight and opt for low carbs, it is best to
Speaker 2: do it with whole foods, cut out the diet drinks
Speaker 2: and diet foods which can mess with your insulin levels
Speaker 2: and make you hungrier. Also, now, if you see sugar
Speaker 2: alcohols on a label, the best way to consume that
Speaker 2: is by building a large bonfire, throwing the item onto
Speaker 2: the bonfire, and then running very far in the other direction,
Speaker 2: unless you're okay passing undigestible molecules into your large intestine
Speaker 2: to ferment and cause gastroonetestinal distress on parallel with drinking
Speaker 2: from a puddle in Calcutta, which is what some sugar
Speaker 2: free diet foods that have sugar alcohols like Manaitol can do.
Speaker 2: So google sugar free gummy bears plus Amazon reviews, settle
Speaker 2: in for what sounds like war journalism from the front
Speaker 2: line of a toilet. I'll give you an example quote,
Speaker 2: don't eat more than fifteen in a sitting unless you
Speaker 2: are trying to powerwash your intestines. The reviews are so good,
Speaker 2: please find them. If you're thinking of going low carb,
Speaker 2: you're now armed with some vital information. I'm very very
Speaker 2: much not a doctor, but as a person who eats
Speaker 2: desserts for work and has to wear an elastic girdle
Speaker 2: under some of my clothes, I can tell you in
Speaker 2: a literal pinch, I just eat protein and vegetables. I
Speaker 2: skip the grains, drink a lil of water, say no
Speaker 2: to diet sodas, no sugar that usually helps when I
Speaker 2: start to look like a walking cautionary tail or like
Speaker 2: a nineteen nineties rocker mug shot. So anyway, that's my advice. Also,
Speaker 2: don't sue me anyway.
Speaker 3: It's really we've just found like cutting out certain carbs
Speaker 3: can really help manage calories. Well, So instead of doing
Speaker 3: a sandwich for lunch, if you do a salad, like
Speaker 3: you've saved.
Speaker 4: Two hundred calories because you don't eat the bread. So
Speaker 4: we'll do stuff like that a lot.
Speaker 3: And yeah, my family teases me all the time about it,
Speaker 3: and it's like, I know, I study carbs, but I'm
Speaker 3: also trying to stay in shape in grad school.
Speaker 2: You get a lot of weight, but there's also like
Speaker 2: an upper limit of how many carbs is a good
Speaker 2: amount of carbs? Probably right?
Speaker 4: Yes, of course I.
Speaker 2: Get carbs from things other than bread.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And while you know, being a glcobiologist, I can say,
Speaker 3: like you need carbohydrates to survive, Obviously you don't. It
Speaker 3: doesn't mean you have to eat like sixteen pieces of
Speaker 3: bread you're getting. I mean, like I said, plants are
Speaker 3: made up of carbs, So I mean, eat a vegetable
Speaker 3: and you'll be fine.
Speaker 2: Eat a vegetable. I have questions, yes, from our listeners,
Speaker 2: But before we take questions from you, our beloved listeners,
Speaker 2: we're going to take a quick break for sponsors of
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Speaker 2: They help us give money to different charities every week.
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Speaker 2: Okay, your questions Hell, Laura wants to know what your
Speaker 2: favorite sugary snack is.
Speaker 3: My favorite sugary snack ooh that's our cupcakes are kind
Speaker 3: of the top two for me.
Speaker 2: And those have complex and simple car riders.
Speaker 3: So those are mostly simples.
Speaker 2: And what is the difference between your complex and a
Speaker 2: simple carbohydrate?
Speaker 3: So a simple sugar a little bit complicated? Explain, So
Speaker 3: like glucose you know of in like sugar, it makes
Speaker 3: up like it's a part of sucrose.
Speaker 4: It's the sugar that we eat.
Speaker 3: And it also all that means is it's a single
Speaker 3: sugar molecule, like glucose is a single sugar molecule. Well,
Speaker 3: there's different types of sugar molecules. There's also one called
Speaker 3: galactose and fucose. When those connect together, they make multiple
Speaker 3: sugar chains, and that's when they get complex, is when
Speaker 3: you get multiples of them.
Speaker 2: This is a really dumb question, but why are simple
Speaker 2: carbohydrates sweet and complex carbohydrates with more sugar in them
Speaker 2: are less sweet?
Speaker 3: Oh so that's just like a characteristic of like the sugar.
Speaker 3: So like glucose itself is sweet, but then there's another
Speaker 3: sugar called manose that's like bitter.
Speaker 2: So the taste is just a characteristic of different types
Speaker 2: of sugars. I tried to look this up and explain it,
Speaker 2: and I found a sentence that says, step wise modification
Speaker 2: at each center around the sugar ring allows the sapid
Speaker 2: functions in these molecule I eat anyway, some sugars are bitter,
Speaker 2: summer sweet. That's all I got for you. I'm sure
Speaker 2: that to our body is like more sugar means more
Speaker 2: fat means I live through the winter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sure there's evolutionary aspects of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, carbs in the winter, why do we eat them? Well,
Speaker 2: some people think that when the days start getting shorter
Speaker 2: and there's less light, we know winter is coming and
Speaker 2: to survive the cold, you need feasts and meat and
Speaker 2: biscuits and cookies your neighbor made now. Other behavioral psychologists
Speaker 2: say it's just crimes of opportunity. The holidays mean more gatherings.
Speaker 2: Gatherings mean cheese platters and crackers and a bunch of
Speaker 2: caramel corn that you're going to crack your teeth on,
Speaker 2: but you don't even care. I like the theory that
Speaker 2: everyone gets a case of the sads seasonal effective disorder,
Speaker 2: a mild form of depression that your grandma probably calls
Speaker 2: the winter blues. Depression can cause carbohydrate cravings because carbohydrates
Speaker 2: promote the production of serotonin, which is a buzzy, happy, warm,
Speaker 2: feel good chemical in your brains. Either way, let's jock
Speaker 2: it up to good old fashioned, messed up self medication
Speaker 2: that brings us temporary joy and future misery. I don't
Speaker 2: know how to end this aside, I don't, oh you
Speaker 2: know what, I'm just going to tell you that the
Speaker 2: largest loaf of bread ever made was baked by a
Speaker 2: Brazilian man in two thousand and eight, and it weighed
Speaker 2: thirty four hundred pounds or fifteen hundred kilograms. It's one
Speaker 2: of long ass loaf pan it winds back and forth.
Speaker 2: In the photos of its production before they cooked, it
Speaker 2: look like an albino and a conda waiting in line
Speaker 2: at Disneyland.
Speaker 4: It's huge.
Speaker 2: Moving on, Lucy wants to know our carbohydrates your favorite
Speaker 2: organic compound.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Angela wants to know will there ever be a cure
Speaker 2: for type one diabetes.
Speaker 3: I'm optimistic about that one, and that actually that is
Speaker 3: a disease that a lab at the c c r
Speaker 3: C and it actually in general within glycobiology, there's a
Speaker 3: lot of focus on it. Actually, yeah, I'm pretty optimistic
Speaker 3: about a treatment for that. There's a lot of labs
Speaker 3: focusing on that, and they make a lot of progress.
Speaker 3: I think it's just in the world of research, things
Speaker 3: take time, unfortunately.
Speaker 2: She also wants to know what impact of sugars and
Speaker 2: glic hands have on gut bacteria if any.
Speaker 3: Ooh a lot, yes, actually, so your gut bacteria so
Speaker 3: like I said, bacteria express their own types of sugars too,
Speaker 3: and they'll have a different combination of complex sugars on
Speaker 3: their surface compared to our surface, our cell surfaces, our
Speaker 3: cell's surface. Sorry, say that ten times fast. And the
Speaker 3: sugars that we that that our body makes interact with
Speaker 3: the bacteria, like the bacteria will have their own carbohydrate
Speaker 3: binding proteins. And so that's actually a really hot area
Speaker 3: of research right now.
Speaker 2: Is that gut biome? Oh yeah, so you have these
Speaker 2: kind of glycan streamers. Yeah, we're jutting off of a
Speaker 2: cell service, and those are interacting with your good and
Speaker 2: bad gut bacteria to be like who are you? What
Speaker 2: are you doing here?
Speaker 4: What are you lackly?
Speaker 2: Oh so you're you are kind of or some glycobiologists
Speaker 2: are studying how your cells interact with all.
Speaker 3: The teria or bad bacteria exactly, and even understanding, I
Speaker 3: mean even just the basic understanding of like why a
Speaker 3: bad bacteria is bad, Like how come your cell? How
Speaker 3: come the bad bacteria like infects your cell and the
Speaker 3: good bacteria don't necessarily And that communication could be facilitated
Speaker 3: through glycans. It could be that the good bacteria have
Speaker 3: certain glycans that the cell recognized and it's like, oh,
Speaker 3: never mind, this is okay, and then the bad bacteria
Speaker 3: express a different combination of glycans and your cell is like, whoa, no,
Speaker 3: you don't belong here, Like I'm calling in backup pretty much.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wonder if there's any just like kind of medium
Speaker 2: bacteria that they're like, I'm not really a dick, and
Speaker 2: I'm not that nice either, I'm just kind of a medium.
Speaker 3: Maybe there could be some that definitely are like a milder,
Speaker 3: just like I'm gonna chill here, and you're a nice
Speaker 3: dark environment.
Speaker 2: It's a nice, dark, stinky environment.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I promise you that one day I will have a
Speaker 2: microbiologist on to talk about the importance of the gut biome.
Speaker 2: It is. It's all I want. If you are one
Speaker 2: of those, just slide in my DMS. I would love
Speaker 2: to talk about our stinky guts. Jen wants to know
Speaker 2: what is the most interesting thing about sugar on a
Speaker 2: molecular level. What does it look like?
Speaker 3: Ooh, So they're all like these little six or five
Speaker 3: membered rings. So if you think back to like chemistry class,
Speaker 3: they're like little rings of carbon. So a sugar is
Speaker 3: a glycan. Oh okay, just that's aw synonymous. Yeah, And
Speaker 3: it's really interesting how just like a very small change
Speaker 3: means it's a different sugar and therefore it has a
Speaker 3: different property, like everything from glugo's being sweet to mannos
Speaker 3: being bitter, Like those two structures are actually really similar,
Speaker 3: but like one little change gives it a whole different characteristic.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of like the beauty of anything on
Speaker 3: a molecular level is just that, like all the diversity,
Speaker 3: all the different cell type, like everything that makes the
Speaker 3: world that we see it is like just small molecular
Speaker 3: changes that add up, if that makes sense.
Speaker 4: I know that sounds really dumb.
Speaker 2: No, does that ever? Does that ever trip you out
Speaker 2: from a from like a what is life standpoint?
Speaker 4: All the time?
Speaker 3: Really?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Do you think about chemistry just when you're driving around,
Speaker 2: when you're just eating, when you're watching.
Speaker 3: Moving No, I'm definitely I like thinking about science, but
Speaker 3: I can also very easily turn that off and move
Speaker 3: on with my life.
Speaker 2: You're like, I can conform rightalize. Sarah wants to know,
Speaker 2: is it frustrating that our society has demonized sugar since
Speaker 2: glycans are so important to everything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's it.
Speaker 3: It's actually a really interesting way to think about it
Speaker 3: because as like a glcobiologist, I definitely differentiate like the
Speaker 3: sugar we eat from the sugar on our cell surfaces.
Speaker 3: So I see that distinction, but I totally realize that
Speaker 3: like nobody else would see that distinction, and so they're like, ooh,
Speaker 3: sugar's bad, when really it's pretty important.
Speaker 2: How much sugar should we eat? This is a good question,
Speaker 2: I asked the American Heart Association. They recommend no more
Speaker 2: than around thirty grams of sugar a day, particularly sugar.
Speaker 2: If you're like, do I even eat that? Probably not? Well. Uh,
Speaker 2: the average American consumes eighty two grams of sugar every day.
Speaker 2: That's roughly sixty six pounds of added sugar consumed each
Speaker 2: year per person. That's so much sugar. So I found
Speaker 2: a site run by UCSF Med School. It's called sugar Science,
Speaker 2: they say quote. Using brain scanning technology, scientists at the
Speaker 2: US National Institute on Drug Abuse were among the first
Speaker 2: to show that sugar causes changes in people's brains similar
Speaker 2: to those in people addicted to drugs such as cocaine
Speaker 2: and alcohol. These changes are linked to a heightened craving
Speaker 2: for more sugar. Now, UCSF has this incredible team of scientists.
Speaker 2: They study sugar in the diet, its role in human health,
Speaker 2: and they have a meat the scientist page. It lists epidemiologists, psychiatrists, endochronologists,
Speaker 2: nutritional biologists, but no glycobiologists because us the glycobiologists are
Speaker 2: really doing work at the cellular level with sugars and
Speaker 2: saccharides to find how cells use them to communicate to
Speaker 2: help find cures for rare diseases, which is why Michelle
Speaker 2: doesn't have a ton of interest in fad diets. And
Speaker 2: I was up googling before and after Picks Kardashian Keto
Speaker 2: longer than I really needed to be. Let's be honest,
Speaker 2: I really completed my research and then I just kept looking. Well,
Speaker 2: Allison wanted to know how is glycobiology helping with developments
Speaker 2: of the skin and aging, and she also notes got
Speaker 2: this from Wikipedia.
Speaker 3: Yes, okay, so there is a particular complex carbohydrate chain
Speaker 3: called hyaluronic acid, and you will see that on a
Speaker 3: lot of your beauty products.
Speaker 2: Yes, I think I've said moisture.
Speaker 4: Yes indeed.
Speaker 3: So essentially it is a long chain of sugars, a
Speaker 3: particular combination of sugars that retains water really well, so
Speaker 3: like it attracts water and water molecule stick to it
Speaker 3: and it plumps up with like I think it can
Speaker 3: like one chain, like can hold like one hundred times
Speaker 3: its own volume, its own mass and water.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, yeah, So what is your least favorite thing
Speaker 2: about glycobiology? Do you what really traps your hide?
Speaker 3: It's weird because it's a combination of like a thing
Speaker 3: I like about it and a thing I don't like
Speaker 3: about it. Like it's it's a it's a growing field,
Speaker 3: but it's still a fairly small field, and so kind
Speaker 3: of everybody knows everybody and everybody knows everybody's research. It
Speaker 3: has its pluses because, for instance, there's really only like
Speaker 3: one real textbook, like really good textbook for glycobiology, called
Speaker 3: The Essentials of Glycobiology, And so it's a it's a
Speaker 3: very close like knit community, which is nice, but it
Speaker 3: does mean any like two professors have like a beef
Speaker 3: or something, you know, like you're a professor might be like, no,
Speaker 3: don't go post stock in that person's.
Speaker 4: Lab because they suck.
Speaker 3: And so it's got the same issue of any close
Speaker 3: knit community is that any of the problems kind of
Speaker 3: get exacerbated. It also means, like our professional society meetings,
Speaker 3: for instance, when you know you go to like these
Speaker 3: big conferences, ours this pretty small. It's like four hundred
Speaker 3: people compared to like Society for Neuroscience it's like forty
Speaker 3: thousand people.
Speaker 4: You know, Society for Glycobiology is tiny.
Speaker 2: Does that make you feel elite though? Do you feel
Speaker 2: like you're a member of a small cool club. I
Speaker 2: never really thought of it that way.
Speaker 4: I'm not really into elitism, so I don't really know.
Speaker 3: Like no, it gives it a nice like family aspect,
Speaker 3: but it just doesn't give quite as much room for
Speaker 3: like networking and branching out.
Speaker 2: There may not be many glyco biologists, but Michelle says
Speaker 2: it's a really good skill set. It's starting to get
Speaker 2: some tension. The pharmaceutical industry is really picking up on it,
Speaker 2: and there's a lot of room for using carbohydrates and
Speaker 2: their role in cell signaling for vaccine development. But still,
Speaker 2: I mean, I had to admit that I was stoked.
Speaker 2: I kind of fangirled when I met her and she
Speaker 2: said she's a glycobiologist, I know when I met you,
Speaker 2: I was like, I'm not going to encounter another glycobiologist
Speaker 2: for it probably ever, So I was like, can I
Speaker 2: hold you into this room?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So what is her very very very favorite thing? Like
Speaker 2: what gives you butterflies? Makes you like get excited about
Speaker 2: getting into the lab or just doing the work you do?
Speaker 2: What do you love?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 3: For me personally, it's it's it's thinking about it in
Speaker 3: a way to understand like how this is going to
Speaker 3: benefit the communities and in particular these communities that are
Speaker 3: suffering from like really rare congenital disorders of glycostellations.
Speaker 4: And that makes me really excited.
Speaker 2: Do you want glcobiology to become a bigger thing?
Speaker 3: I do, as much as I say, like the close
Speaker 3: knit family, Like I still want to see it become
Speaker 3: a common I want, you know, undergraduates to learn about
Speaker 3: it in science classes. I want pharmaceutical industries to like
Speaker 3: realize it's important and importance and like hire more and
Speaker 3: do more of its own research in glycobiology.
Speaker 2: Have you considered shirts that say glycobiology is pretty sweet?
Speaker 2: She had not. She did get memed by a friend,
Speaker 2: and it's just a photo of her and glasses in
Speaker 2: the lab with the all caps proclamation glycobiology is cool.
Speaker 2: I will post this on the ologies Instagram because I
Speaker 2: feel it needs to be seen. Do you have to
Speaker 2: wear lab coats?
Speaker 3: I do not, and like, nothing's gonna like infect me
Speaker 3: in my lab so I don't worry.
Speaker 4: Too much about it.
Speaker 2: But you could probably get so much respect at Starbucks
Speaker 2: if you waltzed in with a lab coat.
Speaker 3: Just consider they're really like they're kind of hot though
Speaker 3: they're like not a very breathable material.
Speaker 2: Oh I thought you meant like the people look hot
Speaker 2: in them. I'm like, yeah, people look great.
Speaker 3: At a lab coat, you get at like hot, uncomfortable.
Speaker 3: It's only nice because it has pockets. And if you're
Speaker 3: not wearing like if you're in leggings and a T
Speaker 3: shirt and you don't have pockets, like, the lab coat
Speaker 3: is clutch.
Speaker 2: The lab coat is clutch. Words to live by with
Speaker 2: Michelle Ducua also, please someone start that as a meme.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Thank you so so much for
Speaker 2: coming on. I'm so glad. I feel like I am
Speaker 2: walking away with so with a good grip on what
Speaker 2: glycobiology has. I had no idea what it was yesterday.
Speaker 4: I'm glad actually makes me really happy. Hey good, Hey
Speaker 4: science communication.
Speaker 2: Who did it? So next time you stare lovingly into
Speaker 2: a pita pocket, or or you banish your cereal to
Speaker 2: a locked file cabinet in the basement, just remember that
Speaker 2: your cells are like cousheballs. It's all crazy with carbs
Speaker 2: on their surface, and they're all talking to each other
Speaker 2: and waging wars on invaders, and you're just like eating
Speaker 2: an apple on a bench, wondering if you should get
Speaker 2: an asymmetrical haircut this year. I say go for it.
Speaker 2: To follow Michelle Ducua, She's at mt Ducua on Twitter
Speaker 2: and Instagram. And Ologies is ologies on Twitter and Instagram,
Speaker 2: and I'm Ali Ward on both. If you want to
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Speaker 2: this week's end of show secret. Right before I started
Speaker 2: recording this, I ate a slice of apple and I
Speaker 2: realized I'm currently digesting half of the sticker. I ate
Speaker 2: the slice of apple. I looked, and I realized the
Speaker 2: other half of the sticker was still on the part
Speaker 2: of the apple. I had not i ate the sticker,
Speaker 2: so if I die, it's because of my addiction to
Speaker 2: freaknose in my absence. Please ask smart people dumb questions
Speaker 2: because they love it. Oh keyberbye, pacodermatology, biology, crypto zoology, lithology, zechonology, meteorologyologynathology, seriality.
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