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<v Speaker 1>Paris twenty twenty four Olympics opening ceremonies sparks significant controversy,

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<v Speaker 1>with some viewer's mistake of performance inspired by Greek mythology

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<v Speaker 1>for a parody of the Last Supper. This artistic homage

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<v Speaker 1>to the ancient origin of the Olympics feature drag queens

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<v Speaker 1>and other historical figures, aiming to celebrate the cultural and

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<v Speaker 1>religious diversity intertwined with the game's history. Despite the creators

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<v Speaker 1>intent to honor the gods of Mount Olympus, many Christians

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<v Speaker 1>perceive the display as offensive and disrespectful to their faith

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<v Speaker 1>and their God, because, after all, everything must be all

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<v Speaker 1>about them. Many Christians felt that the ceremonies artistic choices

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<v Speaker 1>marked their religious beliefs and demonstrated a disregard for the

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<v Speaker 1>supposed sanctity of Christian traditions. This class highlights the often

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<v Speaker 1>overlooked pagan influences within Christianity and the tension between traditional

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<v Speaker 1>belief and marginal interpretations. Now I know that everybody has

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<v Speaker 1>seen it. People have talked about it being cultural rot.

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<v Speaker 1>When they refer to cultural rot, what do you really

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<v Speaker 1>think that they're referring to? What are they talking about

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<v Speaker 1>cultural rot?

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<v Speaker 2>When they say, there's a quote from the article that

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<v Speaker 2>says many internationally known political figures, particularly from America, condemned

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<v Speaker 2>the display as a sign of cultural rot in Western civilization.

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<v Speaker 2>And it says, idea that not being a Christian or

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<v Speaker 2>not accepting Christianity is somehow like a step backwards or

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<v Speaker 2>like a decline in civilist, civilist civilization. And it's it's

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<v Speaker 2>it's it's maddening. There were there were there was another time,

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<v Speaker 2>a little under one hundred years ago where in a

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<v Speaker 2>particular place, people of a particular religious persuasion were you know,

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<v Speaker 2>accused of being the cause of decline of civilization. And

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<v Speaker 2>that didn't that that we I mean, those of us

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<v Speaker 2>that accept you know, history as reality know what happened then,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was it was a pretty terrible thing. So

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<v Speaker 2>the the end of that not having a specific religious

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<v Speaker 2>belief is cultural raw is not only silly to me,

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<v Speaker 2>but I find it dangerous. And it's it's not the

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<v Speaker 2>first time something like this has happened. You know, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>with Christian nationalism and the push to get Christianity into schools.

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<v Speaker 2>This is just this is just another example of the

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<v Speaker 2>same thing.

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<v Speaker 1>Sendy, do you think that they may have a point

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<v Speaker 1>and the fact that do you think it likely that

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<v Speaker 1>when da Vinci and I know you don't speak for

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<v Speaker 1>Leonardo or any of his family, but do you think

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<v Speaker 1>that perhaps his another Greek mythology could have helped influence

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<v Speaker 1>how da Vinci made the last separate painting in the

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<v Speaker 1>first place. I mean, isn't it likely that he borrowed

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<v Speaker 1>and took things from previous gods? Because we know that

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<v Speaker 1>the scriptures did well? What do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 1>How well do you think Christians really know their Bible

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<v Speaker 1>when it comes down to what they think happened at

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<v Speaker 1>this point or how it looked, or who it seemed

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<v Speaker 1>like did it what do you think?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, first, I think that what they disliked the most

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<v Speaker 3>was not that it was but depiction of Christianity. But

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<v Speaker 3>I think what bothers them the most is that we

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<v Speaker 3>don't see Christianity as virtuous anymore as worthy of deference.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's that's what they dislike the most in this.

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<v Speaker 3>But no, we know that pretty much the entire Bible

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<v Speaker 3>is copied from or derived from other religions. We know

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<v Speaker 3>that some of the Old Testament is sometimes textbook copy

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<v Speaker 3>from the Peak of Gilgamesh. We know that many gods

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<v Speaker 3>or many characters in the Bible are inspired by previews characters.

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<v Speaker 3>We know that uh uh. The Yahweh character in the

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<v Speaker 3>Bible is at first it was a minor god in

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<v Speaker 3>in in their religion, but then uh uh, it was

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<v Speaker 3>then like promoted. I don't know, maybe it did something good,

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<v Speaker 3>uh and and got promoted. But yeah, I don't think

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<v Speaker 3>that painting in the first place is accurate. I think

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<v Speaker 3>it's it's it's just like like the chapel and and

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<v Speaker 3>the and the painting on on the on the roof.

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<v Speaker 3>It's just it's just art, and art is never meant

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<v Speaker 3>to be taken literally like the evangelic evangelists in the

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<v Speaker 3>US take the Bible right now. It's it's just not

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<v Speaker 3>art is just uh, imagination.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I would have to agree, now, Eili, I've got

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<v Speaker 1>to say that. I know there's been a pushback. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't I don't know if you saw anything about that

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<v Speaker 1>about different people talking about how first you know it's

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<v Speaker 1>not the Last Supper, which it isn't, and then talking

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<v Speaker 1>about how and I thought this telling it. I was

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<v Speaker 1>just kind of wonder what you thought about this, He

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<v Speaker 1>wrote on next says, I don't think we Christians realize

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<v Speaker 1>how fragile we make our faith look when we act

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<v Speaker 1>as though something like this artistic expression represents an existential

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<v Speaker 1>threat to us. We have allowed feared superstition to overtake

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<v Speaker 1>our public witness rather than love or understanding. Now I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know this person, and we probably agree on many

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<v Speaker 1>more things than we disagree, but I do say that

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<v Speaker 1>if nothing else, so, if you're trying to look for

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<v Speaker 1>a position of authority, I think that this is definitely

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<v Speaker 1>the wrong way. What do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I think that I hadn't seen that, but

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<v Speaker 2>I think that person put it very well. If something

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<v Speaker 2>like this is an existential threat to your beliefs, then

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<v Speaker 2>there's something you need to re examine about why the

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<v Speaker 2>beliefs are that.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Almost don't want to use the word fragile, but I do,

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<v Speaker 2>so I will. And there was some of the like

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<v Speaker 2>quotes of some of that they tweeted from the art

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<v Speaker 2>or some of the tweets that they quoted in the

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<v Speaker 2>article I wrote down to. There's one of them that says,

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<v Speaker 2>like this is extremely disrespectful to Christians, And I think

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<v Speaker 2>that it's just not especially because like you know, has

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<v Speaker 2>already been established. This is a fifteenth century you know,

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<v Speaker 2>Italian painter or Italian painters like rendition of an image

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<v Speaker 2>that was stolen by Christianity from another, you know, belief

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<v Speaker 2>system that depicts a fictional scenario. So it's not disrespectful

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<v Speaker 2>to anything. It's an image, like you said, but I

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<v Speaker 2>noticed I had another thought when you said it a

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<v Speaker 2>minute ago in Fidel that because it is honoring other gods.

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<v Speaker 2>That is why they see it as offensive, because of

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<v Speaker 2>their commandment to honor no other gods. And that's what

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<v Speaker 2>it is. If they're honoring the Greek gods, which would

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<v Speaker 2>make sense at the Olympics because that's where they started,

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<v Speaker 2>and not the Christian God, then they're gonna say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>that's that's not what you're supposed to do. And as

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<v Speaker 2>you said earlier, Cindy, they are so convinced that they

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<v Speaker 2>are right that it doesn't that the idea of including

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<v Speaker 2>other belief systems doesn't matter. It doesn't occur to them

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<v Speaker 2>that the ideas that like Muslims and Jews and Buddhists

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<v Speaker 2>and Hindus and Norse Pagans and Wickans and you know whatever,

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<v Speaker 2>like weird shit, like they're a part of the society

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<v Speaker 2>and they have all they all have the same right

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<v Speaker 2>to like be this happy little oops on this fucking

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<v Speaker 2>rock that we're on and have this, you know, the

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<v Speaker 2>same beliefs and celebrate them, and they just fail to

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<v Speaker 2>accept that. Time after time.

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<v Speaker 3>I would be more cynical and just say that, uh,

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<v Speaker 3>it's just ignorance. It didn't occur to them that it

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<v Speaker 3>couldn't be anything else than, uh, a depiction of Christianity.

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<v Speaker 3>But maybe maybe I'm just too scenico. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>You'll probably write on the money, honestly.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I do think that they did miss it, and

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<v Speaker 1>I think you're absolutely right, And that is a sad

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<v Speaker 1>testament too, where we are and where people view themselves.

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<v Speaker 1>You talk about this, you know, I'm the center of

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<v Speaker 1>the movie that everybody's watching.

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<v Speaker 2>You know.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a little bit like that. But what I did

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<v Speaker 1>find interesting is one of the quotes that I read said,

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<v Speaker 1>this is crazy opening your event by replacing Jesus and

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<v Speaker 1>the disciples at the Last Supper with men and drag

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<v Speaker 1>There are two point four being Christians on earth, and

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<v Speaker 1>apparently the Olympics wanted to declare Lowley to all of

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<v Speaker 1>them right out of the gate in an all capital

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<v Speaker 1>not welcome. And I sat and I thought about that,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, okay, well let me sit and ask

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<v Speaker 1>you then, when I as not a Christian see just

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<v Speaker 1>some imitation are a print of Leonardo da Vinci's Last Supper,

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<v Speaker 1>should I recognize that this is a place at a

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not welcome Because if me just having something that

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<v Speaker 1>makes light of it in your opinion, or does something

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<v Speaker 1>they you disagree with, is important enough that I'm telling

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<v Speaker 1>you that you don't exist there, that doesn't make sense

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<v Speaker 1>to me unless you're telling me the end versus true

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<v Speaker 1>to me or anyone else who may not fit in

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<v Speaker 1>whatever category that you're trying to sell yourself at. So, Sandya,

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<v Speaker 1>did you have anything to add to this?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? Yeah, I think you're You're right. Uh, the I

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<v Speaker 3>would say that the US Christians are the worst self

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<v Speaker 3>centered cray babies I've ever seen. Anything you you say

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<v Speaker 3>or do is an attack to them, Like some people

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<v Speaker 3>saying I won't say Christmas anymore, Amerry Christmas anymore because

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<v Speaker 3>I want to include everyone else that's an a Christmas.

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<v Speaker 3>That's an attack on them, Like every everything is an

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<v Speaker 3>attack against Christianity and and that's that's right, that's what

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<v Speaker 3>what you just said. It's just they don't understand the

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<v Speaker 3>difference between I want to, uh take care of everyone's

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<v Speaker 3>ideas and different beliefs, and this specific belief that you

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<v Speaker 3>have is equal to the others in my opinion, and

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<v Speaker 3>that seems offensive to them. And that's why they feel threatened.

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<v Speaker 3>Because if I say I'm an atheist and I see

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<v Speaker 3>all of the religions on the same place, and I

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<v Speaker 3>say that to someone who strongly believes that his religion

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<v Speaker 3>is the only true religion and his God is the

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<v Speaker 3>only true God, then yeah, he's going to to feel threatened.

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<v Speaker 3>But it's not I'm just expressing what I think what

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<v Speaker 3>I am, and it's not an attack on you. It's

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<v Speaker 3>just it's terrifying how the evangelic movement has changed Christianity

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<v Speaker 3>in the last say four years, to the point where

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<v Speaker 3>everything seems to be an attack on them and they're

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<v Speaker 3>incapable of thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes without a doubt. You know that that kind of

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<v Speaker 1>goes into something else I was thinking about. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we've talked about before. I think he may have been

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<v Speaker 1>on this episode we did it about butker the kicker

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<v Speaker 1>for Kansas City, who would all women should stay at

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<v Speaker 1>home and have babies and you know, if they think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, keep him in the kitchen. And I'm exaggerating,

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<v Speaker 1>but not by much. One of the things that he

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<v Speaker 1>commented on it was, you know, be not deceived. God

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<v Speaker 1>is not mocked. And I won't bore you with the

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<v Speaker 1>rest of the blah blah blah the magic spell verse.

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<v Speaker 1>But then I've got to say God has a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>good sense of humor if he won't be mocked, because

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<v Speaker 1>if that was him, he did get a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>I'll give him that. I might be mad if it

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<v Speaker 1>was me, but no, I'd probably laugh, Let's be honest.

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<v Speaker 1>But you know, either way, God must have a serious

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<v Speaker 1>thinse skins that he would be offended by something that's

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<v Speaker 1>a half great up for a chimpanzee, that that puts

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<v Speaker 1>on a certain outfit and does whatever. If they're the

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<v Speaker 1>God that creates the universe and could do all this,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's like me being concerned on what color,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, blushing or but you know, with that in mind,

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<v Speaker 1>eli uh, I think that were there any other quotes

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<v Speaker 1>or is there anything else you wanted to run by?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, no, Cindy, you were mentioning how they take all

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<v Speaker 2>of this, And this is a phenomenon I've noticed not

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<v Speaker 2>just in Christians in America, but like just people in general.

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<v Speaker 2>And I've noticed this a lot recently then I just

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<v Speaker 2>haven't had an excuse to talk about it on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>So this was great that people tend to not understand

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<v Speaker 2>what disrespect is. And so these claims that this is

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<v Speaker 2>disrespectful to Christianity is where that is founded in just

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<v Speaker 2>you know, respect isn't you know, treat me like I'm

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<v Speaker 2>better than you, and it's not, you know, if I

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<v Speaker 2>have consequences for my behavior, then there will be consequences.

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<v Speaker 2>It's recognizing that you can't fucking control what other people do.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't get to interfere with their lives, leave people

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<v Speaker 2>alone that are leaving you alone, and mind your fucking business.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's really just what respect is. And Christians, like narcissists,

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<v Speaker 2>love to go on and on about how they're the

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<v Speaker 2>victims and everything is being shoved down their throats and

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<v Speaker 2>everything is being done to them, but any time, and

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<v Speaker 2>how like being a Christian like puts a target on

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<v Speaker 2>your back because they think they're still living in the

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<v Speaker 2>acts of the Apostles, which probably didn't happen like historically speaking.

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<v Speaker 2>So every single time we hear about somebody you know

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<v Speaker 2>saying somebody claiming offense or or you know, forcing their

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<v Speaker 2>belief system into the public arena, it's religious people. It's Christians.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody is suing churches except for like the people that

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<v Speaker 2>they've harmed over the years. Good, like that's what should happen.

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<v Speaker 2>But it because once again it's Christians causing the harm.

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<v Speaker 2>And I think this this whole idea of like this

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<v Speaker 2>is disrespectful to Christians is really just rooted in that

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<v Speaker 2>idea that you you you touch, you started a touch

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<v Speaker 2>on Cindia. Is that people just don't understand it. It's

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<v Speaker 2>not just Christians in America. I think it's it's at

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<v Speaker 2>least people in America, I don't about the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>the world, but just don't seem to understand the concept.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I would have to say that people also have

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<v Speaker 1>this mindset that I have the right to say and

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<v Speaker 1>think what I want to say and think, and if

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<v Speaker 1>you don't agree with me, you're infringing on my right. No,

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<v Speaker 1>you you have the right to say anything you want

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<v Speaker 1>to say in my opinion. But it's when you turn

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<v Speaker 1>around and you don't expect me to say, well, that

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<v Speaker 1>was rather dumb, wasn't it. Don't be offended because then

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<v Speaker 1>I'm more than willing to defend it's dumb. I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>wanting people to go around calling people dumb. But at

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<v Speaker 1>the same time, when you come up against bad things,

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<v Speaker 1>people have to understand that people are going to respond

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<v Speaker 1>to that. And Sandy, do you have something to say?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, three things. Regarding your thick skin comment, I would

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<v Speaker 3>also say that how pathetically weak this god is that

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<v Speaker 3>he needs all those people to defend him just by

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<v Speaker 3>the depiction of something they think is is related to

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<v Speaker 3>their religion. Regarding the respect issue, I think I agree

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<v Speaker 3>with you Eli about what you said. I think it's

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<v Speaker 3>a very good point. And I would also add that

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<v Speaker 3>respect is also accepting that even if I think you're wrong,

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<v Speaker 3>I think your opinion has merit and and I say

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<v Speaker 3>that while also saying that bad ideas exist to be destroyed,

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<v Speaker 3>that the minute you express something it it can be

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<v Speaker 3>criticized and examined and cross referenced and and destroyed if necessary.

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<v Speaker 3>But the issue about respect is that they they don't

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<v Speaker 3>understand that bad ideas don't deserve respect. People do and

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<v Speaker 3>and they don't understand the difference often, and so I

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<v Speaker 3>think that's that's important to talk about this because you

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<v Speaker 3>can respect people. You can not respect ideas, and that's

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<v Speaker 3>perfectly fine. But also you can even if you don't

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<v Speaker 3>respect an idea, you can respect the person because you

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<v Speaker 3>think that they came to this idea for reason, they

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<v Speaker 3>think they are good. And if you don't, then you

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<v Speaker 3>don't respect the person on top of the idea. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know if I'm clear enough, but that's that's the

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<v Speaker 3>point I was trying to make.

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<v Speaker 1>That, and that's clear because that's that's ultimately what inclusion

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<v Speaker 1>is going to have to force, and that is ideas

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<v Speaker 1>that you don't care for don't like. Because if I

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<v Speaker 1>say that you have a freedom to say whatever you

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<v Speaker 1>want to say, as long as you say exactly what

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to say, that's not freedom. Freedom has

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<v Speaker 1>to allow a certain willingness to listen to things and

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<v Speaker 1>understand things that may make you uncomfortable. Because here's the truth.

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<v Speaker 1>It may never change your mind about what you're talking about,

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<v Speaker 1>but what it is capable of doing is making you

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<v Speaker 1>rethink other things because not everything lives in a box

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<v Speaker 1>because you take that knowledge and you understanding, you know what,

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<v Speaker 1>they have a point about something else, though maybe completely unrelated.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's always an opportunity to learn. So if you

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<v Speaker 1>already conclude I've got the answer, I'm done. Shut the

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<v Speaker 1>hell up. You've already shown your willingness to be wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>You may not be wrong, but you're willing to be

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<v Speaker 1>wrong because you're not willing to listen to anything someone

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<v Speaker 1>has to say, even in an uncomfortable situation. Sorry here

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<v Speaker 1>I am rambling on again. Eli another quick thought before

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<v Speaker 1>I'll wrap it up.

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<v Speaker 2>I would say I would just add I think a

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<v Speaker 2>really good summary of that is that every idea is

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<v Speaker 2>equally worthy of being destroyed. And I think, like that's

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<v Speaker 2>a thought that I just now had while you were

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<v Speaker 2>speaking to Minneo Cindy. But I think that's great. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's a good way to put it. I'll say

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<v Speaker 2>you inspired that. The final thing is that it just

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<v Speaker 2>seems like the whole, like the Olympic opening ceremonies seems

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<v Speaker 2>like such a non issue to me, Like even if

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<v Speaker 2>I gave a shit, I still wouldn't give a shit.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't, I don't normally watch the Olympics, but if

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<v Speaker 2>I did, it would be for the extremely impressive athleticism.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, there are you know, some of the some

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<v Speaker 2>some like absolute superhumans are in the Paris doing the

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<v Speaker 2>most impressive feats, some of the most impressive feats of

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<v Speaker 2>athleticism in the world right now in history and the

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<v Speaker 2>biggest Like so many people are just focused on this,

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<v Speaker 2>which just feels like a non issue, like it was.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a performance at the beginning of something that

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<v Speaker 2>has been happening for thousands of years or hundreds of years.

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<v Speaker 3>You know.

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<v Speaker 2>It's that's kind of where I land on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I get that. I get that, the fact

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<v Speaker 1>that there's so many other things going on, But the

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<v Speaker 1>truth is there's so many things that really are relatively

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<v Speaker 1>minor in the grand scheme of things. And Olympics openings, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, they have a certain level of memorability. They

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they are a historical event a lot more

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<v Speaker 1>than say a woman empty and hot water and tour

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<v Speaker 1>or sink. So with those kinds of things in mind,

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<v Speaker 1>you have to understand that when Christians show a level

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<v Speaker 1>of intolerance, you never know where it could end up.

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<v Speaker 1>And I guess that's one thing to me makes it

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<v Speaker 1>important for us to remind everyone, Hey, Christians, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>around every corner and every bend. It's really not all

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<v Speaker 1>about you. Let's just let everybody be everybody