WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:05.000 You're listening to the Paranormal UK Radio Network, the best 2 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.919 in paranormal talk radio in the UK and around the world. 3 00:00:26.440 --> 00:00:29.679 Hi everyone, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you 4 00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.320 happen to be in this particular timeline, Welcome to trans 5 00:00:33.320 --> 00:00:37.200 dimensional Realities, where we delve into the stranger aspect of 6 00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:40.880 our current reality. I'm your host, Melissa Lee, and I 7 00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:42.679 don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, 8 00:00:42.679 --> 00:00:46.159 but here in the Northeast, we've had two days of summer. 9 00:00:46.560 --> 00:00:49.840 It's eighty two degrees outside. We're not supposed to get 10 00:00:49.840 --> 00:00:53.039 this for another couple of months. Just two weeks ago 11 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.759 we were down in the twenties and below. So mother 12 00:00:56.960 --> 00:01:01.520 Nature is certainly having a time. Makes me wonder what 13 00:01:01.600 --> 00:01:04.159 the rest of the summer of the spring actually is 14 00:01:04.200 --> 00:01:08.200 going to look like. So let's hope keep your fingers crossed. 15 00:01:08.200 --> 00:01:10.760 We don't suddenly get more snow. And I've seen snow 16 00:01:10.840 --> 00:01:14.239 fall in April, so I want to keep the nice 17 00:01:14.319 --> 00:01:18.760 weather anyway, Let's get into the program. Our guest today 18 00:01:18.840 --> 00:01:23.359 is doctor Adam Risby. Now Doctor Risby is a critical 19 00:01:23.439 --> 00:01:28.920 care physician and neurologist whose work bridges medicine and nondual Wisdom, 20 00:01:29.719 --> 00:01:33.519 author of Love does Not Know Death. He draws from 21 00:01:33.599 --> 00:01:37.400 years in the ICU and decades of contemplative study to 22 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:43.480 show how forgiveness transforms fear into peace. He lives in California, 23 00:01:43.519 --> 00:01:47.400 where he teaches, writes, and co hosts the podcast Letters 24 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.920 to the Sky. So please welcome doctor Adam Risby to 25 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:52.680 the show. How are you, doctor Risbey? 26 00:01:53.200 --> 00:01:55.040 Hey, Melissa, it's a pleasure to be here. 27 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:58.840 Well, thank you for being here. I'm really fascinated to 28 00:01:58.920 --> 00:02:03.200 talk to you about, not only with your background working 29 00:02:03.319 --> 00:02:06.480 in the hospital as an emergency room position. 30 00:02:06.959 --> 00:02:09.960 I see you, I see you wait towards here, do 31 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:11.080 the same thing more or less. 32 00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:15.360 Yeah, okay, And then how you got to be writing 33 00:02:15.439 --> 00:02:19.120 this one book and that sets you down this path. 34 00:02:19.680 --> 00:02:21.159 So if you can tell us a little bit about 35 00:02:21.159 --> 00:02:22.120 how that all started. 36 00:02:22.599 --> 00:02:27.319 Yeah, yeah, I you know, I was really interested in 37 00:02:27.400 --> 00:02:30.319 spirituality from the get go when I was young. I 38 00:02:30.360 --> 00:02:33.479 think that my mom and my dad sort of instilled 39 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:37.159 in me a desire to get to the core truth 40 00:02:37.199 --> 00:02:41.479 of it all, why we're here, what we're doing here, 41 00:02:41.479 --> 00:02:47.840 and where we're headed, sort of the perennial questions, And 42 00:02:47.039 --> 00:02:50.879 that was actually so much a part of my life 43 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:55.759 that right before the year before going into medical school, 44 00:02:55.919 --> 00:03:00.080 I was dead set on being a comparative religion and 45 00:03:00.280 --> 00:03:06.280 philosophy professor. I actually majored in that in college, and 46 00:03:06.319 --> 00:03:07.879 I said, Okay, this is what I want to do. 47 00:03:07.960 --> 00:03:11.840 I want to teach people how to embrace multiple traditions 48 00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:17.319 to find the truth within all. I really valued harmony 49 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:21.039 and tolerance, something I think the world needs a lot 50 00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:27.159 more of these days. Yeah, and you know, my father 51 00:03:27.639 --> 00:03:32.280 was raised, he was he's he was Pakistani, passed away now, 52 00:03:32.319 --> 00:03:36.840 but he he had this like in many ways he 53 00:03:36.960 --> 00:03:41.080 was he was modern and progressive, but with his children. 54 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:45.800 He wanted his children to either have either be a doctor, 55 00:03:45.840 --> 00:03:49.439 a lawyer, or an engineer. And and if you if 56 00:03:49.479 --> 00:03:53.080 you're a family from not the United States, you know 57 00:03:53.159 --> 00:03:57.520 that first gen children often you know the weight of 58 00:03:57.599 --> 00:04:00.199 your the future of the of the family is on 59 00:04:00.240 --> 00:04:02.680 your shoulders because you're often the first one to go 60 00:04:02.719 --> 00:04:05.520 to college and the first one to have higher level degrees. 61 00:04:05.599 --> 00:04:08.560 So the expectation was that I would do that, and 62 00:04:08.599 --> 00:04:10.719 he didn't quite like that. I wanted to be a professor. 63 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:13.199 So I think his words were over my dead. 64 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:16.319 Body, Okay, I think that goes a little bit beyond 65 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:17.480 not liking But. 66 00:04:18.199 --> 00:04:23.560 Yeah, so I was a rebellious teenager or twenty something 67 00:04:23.639 --> 00:04:26.199 year old, and so I decided I would not go 68 00:04:26.279 --> 00:04:28.800 to medicine, which he wanted me to do, but instead 69 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:30.759 be a barista at Starbucks. 70 00:04:32.519 --> 00:04:33.560 That's rebellious. 71 00:04:33.839 --> 00:04:37.160 Yeah. I did that for a year, and I'm grateful 72 00:04:37.279 --> 00:04:42.480 because it was my first real exposure to living in 73 00:04:42.519 --> 00:04:48.240 the real world, having to pay my bills, earning my keep, 74 00:04:49.319 --> 00:04:53.920 interacting with people, interacting with a manager, supervisor. And then 75 00:04:53.959 --> 00:04:57.079 I realized, like, oh, do I really want my life 76 00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:59.879 to be this? And it wasn't bad. There's a lot 77 00:04:59.920 --> 00:05:03.800 of people who make you know they're living like that. 78 00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:07.319 But I decided I want to go into medicine, and 79 00:05:07.439 --> 00:05:10.519 I went into medicine, and I became a doctor. But 80 00:05:10.680 --> 00:05:15.720 that part of me that strove for what is the 81 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:20.120 truth underneath it all? What's what's the purpose? Why are we? 82 00:05:20.839 --> 00:05:23.120 What are we here to do before we die? That 83 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:24.000 never left me. 84 00:05:26.120 --> 00:05:28.079 You know, that's a question a lot of us have, 85 00:05:28.199 --> 00:05:31.199 And I've been down my own spiritual path and doing 86 00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:35.360 a lot of research and trying to find out, you know, 87 00:05:35.519 --> 00:05:37.800 what is the purpose of being here? What is the 88 00:05:37.839 --> 00:05:41.199 purpose of this life. And I started off on a 89 00:05:41.279 --> 00:05:44.000 Christian path, but then in my twenties I broke off. 90 00:05:44.120 --> 00:05:48.480 And you know, I've been learning a lot since about 91 00:05:48.519 --> 00:05:52.199 a lot of different points of view. But I do 92 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:57.439 definitely believe that there's something to this. We are here 93 00:05:57.480 --> 00:06:01.360 temporarily and we're here to learn, and I think that 94 00:06:01.519 --> 00:06:04.800 what we were talking about earlier, love and forgiveness is 95 00:06:04.839 --> 00:06:07.399 something that definitely is on the agenda. 96 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:11.240 It's not the syllabus, yes it is. Yeah, yeah, we're 97 00:06:11.759 --> 00:06:14.720 we're taking a course, for sure, And and I don't 98 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:19.040 think people know what the syllabus is or what the 99 00:06:19.040 --> 00:06:22.839 course is about. But part of what your searching and 100 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:26.759 my searching did was we just we discover one that yeah, 101 00:06:26.839 --> 00:06:31.399 we're taking a course, we're in a classroom, and we're 102 00:06:31.399 --> 00:06:34.079 here to learn something, and that there is there is 103 00:06:34.120 --> 00:06:39.600 somewhat of a syllabus, but it's not it's not explicit. 104 00:06:39.759 --> 00:06:41.560 You gotta hunt, You gotta hunt for it. You have 105 00:06:41.600 --> 00:06:44.079 to wake up to it and realize that that that is, 106 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:46.680 in fact what's going on. That's the context. So you're 107 00:06:46.720 --> 00:06:49.079 so right about that, And. 108 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:51.639 If you also look at a lot of your experiences 109 00:06:51.680 --> 00:06:57.000 in life, even the negative ones have lessons to teach you. You know, 110 00:06:57.279 --> 00:07:00.399 I can just say right now, everything that I've had 111 00:07:00.600 --> 00:07:02.759 happened in my life, and I've had a lot happen, 112 00:07:03.839 --> 00:07:09.560 especially the last few years. I've even though they just 113 00:07:09.639 --> 00:07:13.040 say it they sucked at the time, I am a 114 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.160 better person for them. I've learned, I've grown, I've become 115 00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:20.920 more empathetic and feel like I'm more on the right 116 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:22.120 path these days. 117 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:26.959 Yeah, I had a mentor of mine long ago once say, 118 00:07:28.240 --> 00:07:33.079 life isn't about preventing the fall, because you're going to fall. 119 00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:37.279 It's about learning to stand back up every single time 120 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.959 and building that resilience. And part of standing back up 121 00:07:40.959 --> 00:07:43.920 for me is learning what that was all about, what 122 00:07:43.959 --> 00:07:48.079 the fall was all about. And then with that sort 123 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:52.800 of resilient mindset, the growth mindset, I know I've become 124 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:55.560 a better person. I become a kinder person, a more 125 00:07:55.560 --> 00:08:01.560 compassionate person. Oftentimes, especially after big mistake that I make, 126 00:08:02.480 --> 00:08:05.480 I become way more compassionate to other people who make 127 00:08:05.519 --> 00:08:08.199 mistakes because I know what it feels like. 128 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:16.199 Yes, absolutely, absolutely so. With your history working in the ICU, 129 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:17.600 how long have you been doing that. 130 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:24.160 Let's see, I finished Critical Care Fellowship in twenty eighteen. 131 00:08:25.120 --> 00:08:28.279 So I think I've been doing icy work if you 132 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:30.720 count the years of fellowship, maybe for about ten. 133 00:08:30.639 --> 00:08:33.679 Years now, Okay, okay, and. 134 00:08:33.480 --> 00:08:35.879 I'm still kind of young in the whole journey of 135 00:08:36.200 --> 00:08:36.879 being a. 136 00:08:36.879 --> 00:08:40.879 Doctor, okay. And what prompted you to write your book 137 00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:42.240 Love Does Not Know Death? 138 00:08:43.279 --> 00:08:50.840 Yeah? Well, when I was in fellowship, it was my 139 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:55.480 first time working day and day out in an ICU. 140 00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:59.159 I had done ICU work in residency and even in 141 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:04.440 medical school, but this was pure critical care. This was 142 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.720 the whole point of the fellowship was to get critical 143 00:09:07.720 --> 00:09:11.159 care down, and so being in the ICU, I ended 144 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:17.240 up being present with death quite often. And I remember 145 00:09:17.279 --> 00:09:21.080 my first few deaths. They were so intense, emotionally charged, 146 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:25.080 from dealing with the emotions of the family member to 147 00:09:25.559 --> 00:09:29.159 the patient themselves not wanting to die, but then dying anyway. 148 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:33.840 I remember that there was one case early on. It 149 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:37.440 was a woman who was going to get I think 150 00:09:37.519 --> 00:09:41.159 her gallbladder taken out or something, I forget, some abdominal surgery. 151 00:09:41.200 --> 00:09:45.159 And I was walking with her, lovely old lady, and 152 00:09:45.200 --> 00:09:48.000 she looked up at me and she had this look 153 00:09:48.039 --> 00:09:52.080 of doom in her eyes, like it's like abject terror, 154 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:54.879 and she was holding my hands, say I'm going to die, 155 00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:58.919 I know it, and she just looked right at me 156 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.240 with utter convey I know I'm going to die. I 157 00:10:01.279 --> 00:10:03.720 don't want to die. And she held my hand super tight, 158 00:10:04.559 --> 00:10:07.279 and me thinking, like, you know, you're just going for 159 00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:11.320 a small procedure. This happens every day. I told her, 160 00:10:11.399 --> 00:10:13.840 you're going to be fine. It's a simple procedure. You're 161 00:10:13.840 --> 00:10:17.000 going to be fine. She went into the procedure room 162 00:10:17.039 --> 00:10:19.519 and she never made it out. She had a heart 163 00:10:19.519 --> 00:10:22.679 attack on the table and she came out, and I 164 00:10:22.960 --> 00:10:26.639 was devastated. I thought. I looked at her in the 165 00:10:26.679 --> 00:10:28.480 eyes and I told her she was going to be fine. 166 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:33.919 I wish I wish I had maybe helped her to 167 00:10:34.039 --> 00:10:36.960 embrace that possibility. I don't know. I really don't know 168 00:10:36.960 --> 00:10:39.120 if I could have said anything differently because of where 169 00:10:39.120 --> 00:10:44.559 she was at. But my first encounters with death were 170 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:49.720 very rough. So what I wanted to do was I 171 00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.240 wanted to honor these patients. I wanted to honor her. 172 00:10:52.759 --> 00:10:57.039 I wanted to honor the surprise death that I mean. 173 00:10:57.159 --> 00:10:59.279 I guess she kind of knew it was happening. But 174 00:11:00.279 --> 00:11:02.200 so what I did is I started writing a journal 175 00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:04.279 and I called it my I still call it my 176 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:07.399 death journal. And with every death that I was that 177 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.120 was my criteria. If I was physically present in the 178 00:11:11.120 --> 00:11:14.120 moments leading up to or at their death, then I 179 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:17.639 would write about the patient. I would write what led 180 00:11:17.720 --> 00:11:21.240 up to their death, everything that I did during the 181 00:11:21.279 --> 00:11:25.720 death to support them or otherwise, and then the lessons 182 00:11:25.759 --> 00:11:28.240 I learned that the insights that came to me, that 183 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:32.360 just the raw emotion of the experience, and I would capture. 184 00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:35.639 And I would also use that journal entry as a 185 00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.799 means to pray for them. I would often write, like, 186 00:11:39.840 --> 00:11:43.759 you know, I'm offering prayers to them, well wishes and 187 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:46.000 in my own word and language, and I would I 188 00:11:46.000 --> 00:11:48.639 would often close the journal entry with just closing my 189 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:52.879 eyes and connecting with the with the that person, with 190 00:11:52.919 --> 00:11:57.440 that soul, and giving them love. And oftentimes it would 191 00:11:57.440 --> 00:12:00.200 be a conversation in my head with them and letting 192 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.519 them know that thanking them for being in my life 193 00:12:03.559 --> 00:12:06.480 when they came, and letting them know that they're free. 194 00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:09.639 They're free to go and and and do the next 195 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:13.480 thing in their journey. And I have I now have 196 00:12:14.039 --> 00:12:17.279 well over five hundred journal entries in my death journal, 197 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:20.799 and then I shared that with a group of friends 198 00:12:20.799 --> 00:12:23.559 of mine and they said, Adam, you got to just 199 00:12:23.600 --> 00:12:27.200 publish this. Publish your death journal so people know all 200 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:31.559 the different ways that people die and and and what 201 00:12:31.639 --> 00:12:35.200 you learn, and that there's so much beauty that happens, 202 00:12:35.200 --> 00:12:37.879 and there's so much terror and anger and grief and 203 00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:43.320 anguish and liberation and release. So much happens in the 204 00:12:43.480 --> 00:12:47.279 moments before and after death that I thought, Okay, let me, 205 00:12:47.919 --> 00:12:50.559 let me capture this, and and then it it led 206 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:52.759 to the book Love Does Not Know Death. 207 00:12:54.000 --> 00:12:59.240 Fantastic. With some of the cases that you talk about 208 00:12:59.279 --> 00:13:01.000 in the book, or maybe some of the others that 209 00:13:01.039 --> 00:13:03.919 didn't make this book, it sounds like you have enough 210 00:13:03.919 --> 00:13:08.840 for a couple of volumes. There's a lot of times 211 00:13:08.879 --> 00:13:13.759 when people are close to death, they start seeing and 212 00:13:13.879 --> 00:13:18.240 hearing things that we don't and a lot of times 213 00:13:18.279 --> 00:13:24.240 people are chalking that up to dementia or drugs that 214 00:13:24.399 --> 00:13:29.360 they're on or whatnot. My own father, who passed eighteen 215 00:13:29.480 --> 00:13:33.600 years ago, the last couple of days, he was seeing 216 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:38.759 people that he knew in the room. He had severe 217 00:13:38.799 --> 00:13:42.879 Parkinson's and dementia, but he was seeing these things before 218 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:47.919 he passed the congestive heart failure. So was he really 219 00:13:47.919 --> 00:13:52.399 seeing people? That's up for debate, but it happens with 220 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:56.120 a lot of people. Is it those neurons firing just 221 00:13:56.159 --> 00:13:58.600 before death or is it something else? 222 00:13:59.480 --> 00:14:03.279 Yeah? Yeah, that's a great question. And this is probably 223 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:10.720 where I might get in the most trouble but most physicians, 224 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:15.399 and that is changing now. But I'd say that the 225 00:14:15.480 --> 00:14:20.559 default worldview of Western medicine is that who you are 226 00:14:20.759 --> 00:14:28.440 is a complex biochemical machine, this thing, and consciousness or 227 00:14:28.559 --> 00:14:34.240 awareness is a byproduct of your neurons talking to each 228 00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:39.200 other and firing, and that if the brain dies or 229 00:14:39.200 --> 00:14:48.559 shuts down, then consciousness itself disappears. That never rang true 230 00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:54.360 to me. And after having been practicing for several years 231 00:14:54.399 --> 00:14:58.679 now in the ICU, I've seen stories and heard stories 232 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:06.440 that make me more convinced than ever that consciousness does 233 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:11.320 in fact continue on after the death of the physical body. 234 00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.559 I would there's so many resources now that are being built, 235 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:17.480 the books that are being talked about. The near death 236 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:24.080 literature is exploding, just the anecdotes, the stories, hundreds of 237 00:15:24.120 --> 00:15:30.519 thousands of stories indicating something in fact does continue on. 238 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.960 And I think if you if you pull the average 239 00:15:33.960 --> 00:15:38.080 American or the average human being around the world. I 240 00:15:38.120 --> 00:15:42.279 would say most people believe that consciousness does in fact 241 00:15:42.279 --> 00:15:45.000 go on, that there is some form of afterlife. Now 242 00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:47.519 we have different beliefs about what that might look like, 243 00:15:47.559 --> 00:15:50.039 but I would say most people feel that there is 244 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.759 an afterlife. But in the western scientific world, that's not 245 00:15:54.840 --> 00:16:01.519 the case. In my experience, I've had paid I've had 246 00:16:01.679 --> 00:16:05.759 a gentleman have a heart attack, pronounced dead by me 247 00:16:07.519 --> 00:16:12.320 with EG that means brainwave of electrical brain of activity. 248 00:16:12.360 --> 00:16:16.440 That that was isoelectric, meaning flat, no brain we of 249 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:21.919 activity come back. His heart starts up again, only to 250 00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:27.039 tell me and describe a story of meeting many many 251 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:32.000 people that have since passed on and then and then 252 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.960 have to come back to his body. And the interesting 253 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.600 thing is, and this is not an isolated incidence. There's 254 00:16:38.639 --> 00:16:45.159 many cases of this. If you if you're visually seeing things, 255 00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:50.399 at least when you're in a body, your occipital lobes, 256 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.679 the part of your brain that processes visual input, will 257 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:56.919 light up. It will show that it's it's processing information. 258 00:16:57.799 --> 00:17:01.000 And he saw a whole bunch of things in this 259 00:17:01.240 --> 00:17:06.440 period of being dead, and yet nothing showed up on 260 00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:11.440 his EEG. I know there are other doctors who are 261 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.799 talking about this. I think we're on the early early 262 00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:20.119 stages of a shift in worldview within the sciences where 263 00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:23.400 we're going to start to acknowledge there is something else 264 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:27.799 happening that we haven't been able to quantify. But I 265 00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:31.480 will say if you had asked me twenty thirty years 266 00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:36.920 ago what the general perspective of other physicians is, I 267 00:17:36.960 --> 00:17:41.359 would say almost everyone believes that we're just the meat suit. 268 00:17:41.880 --> 00:17:44.799 But more and more physicians that I talked to actually 269 00:17:45.079 --> 00:17:48.799 are starting to consider that consciousness does in fact exist 270 00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:50.440 independent of the physical body. 271 00:17:51.559 --> 00:17:55.200 And that's great because before now you're right, it's just 272 00:17:56.039 --> 00:17:59.039 science with science, and they didn't want to hear anything 273 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:04.400 that contradicted what they thought of with science, as if 274 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:08.400 we even though we're in the twenty first century, we 275 00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.599 think that, oh, we are on the edge, cutting edge. 276 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.839 We have sciences just progress so much, and we know 277 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:19.559 so much, and I personally don't think we know nearly 278 00:18:19.640 --> 00:18:23.480 as much as we think we do, and there's more 279 00:18:23.599 --> 00:18:30.039 out there, especially when you start looking at religion is religion, 280 00:18:30.880 --> 00:18:37.519 but spiritual experiences are very unique, and people could have 281 00:18:37.759 --> 00:18:41.880 a spiritual experience like a near death experience, and it 282 00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:47.799 could be along religious lines and others. It's totally unexpected 283 00:18:47.920 --> 00:18:52.319 what the experience. And lately I've been really listening to 284 00:18:52.359 --> 00:18:55.960 a lot of podcasts with near death experiencers because the 285 00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:00.960 subject fascinates me. I do definitely believe in that, but 286 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:05.400 I want to hear other people's stories. I mean, I've 287 00:19:05.440 --> 00:19:09.559 gone through surgeries, I've been you know, under anesthesia. I 288 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:12.559 never saw anything, so of course I didn't die on 289 00:19:12.599 --> 00:19:19.039 the table either, but it's it's really fascinating what's there. 290 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:22.160 And I think we're reaching that stage, as you mentioned, 291 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:28.279 where it's starting to be more acceptable to accept that 292 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:32.000 the two are can exist at the same time. 293 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:34.759 Yeah. Yeah, And if you really look at the near 294 00:19:34.799 --> 00:19:39.000 death literature and the stories even on just YouTube, what 295 00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:43.079 I notice whenever I do that is I feel touched. 296 00:19:44.799 --> 00:19:49.640 I feel transformed. I feel greater love for myself for 297 00:19:49.799 --> 00:19:53.839 those around me. I start to appreciate life more. There's 298 00:19:53.839 --> 00:19:57.000 a sense of meaning and purpose that I start I have, 299 00:19:58.039 --> 00:20:03.480 and the vast majority of near death experiencers they report 300 00:20:03.519 --> 00:20:11.039 feeling transformed, like deeply, deeply transformed. They feel held and 301 00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:14.440 cared for, they feel like there's there is some presence 302 00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:18.480 watching out for them, guiding them, guiding their life, and 303 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:23.839 and generally they I feel they become kinder people, nicer people, 304 00:20:24.039 --> 00:20:28.200 compassionate people. That and I think that's what happens when 305 00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:33.160 you shift your identity from just being the body to 306 00:20:33.279 --> 00:20:37.400 recognizing that you're something so much more that life and 307 00:20:37.480 --> 00:20:42.759 love don't know death, They keep they keep going it. 308 00:20:42.759 --> 00:20:46.000 It helps you become a kinder person. And and that's 309 00:20:46.440 --> 00:20:48.960 as I really started to dive into this literature and 310 00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:53.160 doing my studies and my research, I realized that's what's happening. 311 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:58.839 We become kinder people. It doesn't if you have beliefs 312 00:20:58.839 --> 00:21:03.119 in the afterlife. I mean, many people have beliefs in 313 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:05.279 the actual life, but it doesn't make them good human beings. 314 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:09.039 It doesn't make them kind people. But when you when 315 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.079 you have that sense of love, when you have that 316 00:21:11.279 --> 00:21:14.359 sense of oh, this is this is what I'm here 317 00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:16.960 to learn. This is the classroom, which a lot a 318 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:20.599 lot of near death experiences report. And if and if 319 00:21:20.599 --> 00:21:23.839 you realize we're all in the same classroom, we're all learning. 320 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.880 Why not help each other, Why not help everyone get 321 00:21:27.880 --> 00:21:30.400 a's so to speak. You know, there's no there's no 322 00:21:30.519 --> 00:21:33.799 curve in this classroom, we don't we don't have to 323 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:37.839 segregate ourselves. We can help each other. So I actually 324 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:42.759 end my book with a chapter I think. I think 325 00:21:42.799 --> 00:21:45.240 the chapter title is be Kind, because that's it. It 326 00:21:45.319 --> 00:21:48.640 ultimately boils down to that if you're if you consider 327 00:21:48.680 --> 00:21:51.680 yourself a spiritual person, but you're not kind, you're not 328 00:21:51.759 --> 00:21:55.000 doing it right. There's there's spirituality will bring you to 329 00:21:55.079 --> 00:21:56.160 kindness and compassion. 330 00:21:57.799 --> 00:22:01.440 A lot of a lot of that, I think is 331 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.960 it's the nature versus nurture argument, where depending on a 332 00:22:07.000 --> 00:22:11.440 person's home life, how they grew up, whether it was 333 00:22:11.599 --> 00:22:14.960 let's say, in a religious family or you know, instilled 334 00:22:15.000 --> 00:22:20.359 with certain cultural beliefs, and they can they a person 335 00:22:20.440 --> 00:22:24.480 can act on those, or a person could be a 336 00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:27.559 little bit more aware and start realizing and seeing the 337 00:22:27.680 --> 00:22:30.160 lessons and become that kind of person. I think too 338 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:37.480 many people fall into the trap of physical, physical pleasures, 339 00:22:37.480 --> 00:22:44.559 physical power, physical sensations, and thinking that even if they're religious, 340 00:22:44.599 --> 00:22:48.359 even if they have beliefs, they still are not nice 341 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.720 people because in some way they're either lashing out or 342 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:58.039 they're holding on to that low vibrational negative trauma or 343 00:22:58.119 --> 00:23:01.839 outlook that again might have been impressed on them when 344 00:23:01.880 --> 00:23:05.839 they were younger, growing up. There's a lot of factors 345 00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:06.880 that can come into it. 346 00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:11.720 Yeah, yeah, Actually, what you just said is one of 347 00:23:11.759 --> 00:23:16.799 the avenues that I think we can use to practice 348 00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:22.319 a really deep level of forgiveness. I talk a lot 349 00:23:22.359 --> 00:23:24.920 about it in the book because I feel like when 350 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.960 people are facing death their own or a loved one, 351 00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:33.559 inevitably what happens is a lot from the past comes up, 352 00:23:33.920 --> 00:23:37.200 a lot of unhealed hurt and pain. Families that were 353 00:23:38.000 --> 00:23:43.720 distanced from each other, estranged, they're often forced to see 354 00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:47.680 each other again when the father or the mother is dying, 355 00:23:48.279 --> 00:23:51.920 and when they come together, anything that hasn't been healed 356 00:23:52.119 --> 00:23:54.839 just comes right up to the surface. And I feel 357 00:23:54.839 --> 00:24:02.279 like forgiveness is such a huge gift to yourself if 358 00:24:02.759 --> 00:24:05.400 you know how to do it. And so one of 359 00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:10.200 the first ways in is well, I should talk a 360 00:24:10.240 --> 00:24:13.599 little bit about the deeper meaning of true forgiveness. But 361 00:24:14.759 --> 00:24:18.000 what I want to share first is if someone did 362 00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:21.960 something wrong to you and you can see through the 363 00:24:22.039 --> 00:24:27.000 negative action and see them as a child, see them 364 00:24:28.039 --> 00:24:31.319 in see all the trauma that they went through, all 365 00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:35.400 the pain, the abuse, all of the belief systems and 366 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:39.480 potential brainwashing and cultural indoctrination that they got from the media, 367 00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.720 from their family, from friends. Who knows that has turned 368 00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:49.680 them into who they are now, and recognize that their 369 00:24:49.720 --> 00:24:53.920 behavior is a product of that, and then you don't 370 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.519 take it as personally. Then you realize, oh, what they're 371 00:24:56.519 --> 00:24:58.880 telling me, what they're saying, the way they're behaving, it's 372 00:24:58.920 --> 00:25:02.880 not personal, a reflection of everything that they've been through. 373 00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:08.359 Now we'll say something. Forgiving someone doesn't mean you're saying 374 00:25:08.400 --> 00:25:12.279 what they did was right. It doesn't mean what you're 375 00:25:12.279 --> 00:25:17.680 saying what they did to you is okay. You can 376 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:21.240 forgive someone and never talk to them again. You can 377 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:23.640 place those boundaries. You can tell them what they did 378 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.039 was absolutely inappropriate, wrong, if it's necessary to take legal action. 379 00:25:29.319 --> 00:25:32.519 I'm saying, like, the actions that you take in the 380 00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:37.200 world is distinct from what's happening inside, in the mind 381 00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.799 and in the heart. And the reason why I like 382 00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:41.599 to say that forgiveness is a gift that you give 383 00:25:41.680 --> 00:25:46.680 yourself is because there's such a burden when you are 384 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:50.279 resentful towards someone, when you hate someone, when you judge them, 385 00:25:50.319 --> 00:25:53.640 when you hold grievances, and you carry that with you 386 00:25:54.319 --> 00:25:59.359 for years. It is such a burden. And if you forgive, 387 00:25:59.440 --> 00:26:02.519 if you can see through to the innocence of the 388 00:26:02.559 --> 00:26:06.960 other person, and if you can somehow recognize a similarity. 389 00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:09.599 Maybe it's that we're all human beings. Maybe it's that 390 00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:14.359 we all face struggle when we grow up some way 391 00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.480 to connect at a deep level to the other person. 392 00:26:18.559 --> 00:26:21.559 Then you're able to drop that burden. You're able to 393 00:26:21.599 --> 00:26:26.160 let it go. And for me, part of what drove 394 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:29.319 me to write this book is I would see some 395 00:26:29.680 --> 00:26:35.160 families do this unconsciously, maybe they did it consciously. They 396 00:26:35.160 --> 00:26:39.240 would use the opportunity of impending death their own or 397 00:26:39.279 --> 00:26:45.119 their loved one to resolve those grievances, to let things go, 398 00:26:45.359 --> 00:26:50.119 to finally decide to forgive and give themselves the permission 399 00:26:50.119 --> 00:26:54.200 of living life without the burden of judgment. And then 400 00:26:54.200 --> 00:26:57.119 I've seen family members who don't do that, and they 401 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:03.400