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Speaker 1: M m m m m.

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Speaker 2: Hm hm.

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Speaker 3: M m m m m hm. Yeah, you're hello, biggests,

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biggas and nerds in the chat. We're live, we're live.

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Sprung that one on you.

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Speaker 4: You're trying to trying to catch me distant Hillary.

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Speaker 3: So the crowd was Jay was uh over here waxing

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poetic about how beautiful and brave and stunning Hillary Clinton is.

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He was praising We're talking about Hillary hill dog we

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call her. Did not look her in the Yeah, well,

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we were talking about how cool.

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Speaker 4: It is whatever. She's just like, that's so tight. That's

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freaking baller dude. Hillary is a baller bro.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's like, how we uh, we were just

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talking about some of the people we look up to

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as far as you know, the way that they treat

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the people around them. I mean we everybody in the

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chat here knows that if they were in person with me,

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I would also tell them to look down, to look away,

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to avert their gaze. I'm not trying. I'm not trying

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to get energy vampired by all you freaking toxic people

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in the chat. Are you toxic civilians and pedestrians in

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the chat? Non e celebrities or not even e divas

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like our guest, our guest, He's not even a guest anymore.

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It's just he's just a staple. He's just he's my

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my emotional support. Jay over here, my emotional support host

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for the struggle session. Today, we're talking Dune, Dune, Frank

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Herbert's Dune and uh dni Veneve. How do you even

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say this guy's name that ven?

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Speaker 4: Uh just intentionally always pronounce it wrong so that all

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the nerds will correct you in the Dennis.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, we're gonna this is this is not going

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to be a you know, seventeen minute hipster video.

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Speaker 5: Video essay about how Dune went into our masterpieces peak cinema,

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Denny Vnues masterful cinematic epic.

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Speaker 3: Dean went into. Know this is not that. This is

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a struggle session. You guys, we're talking. We got Jay

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DIYer over here. We're gonna be talking deep stuff. We're

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going deep. We're talking parapolitics, occult worldview, warfare, with with

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with with Jay DIYer over He did a great breakdown

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of some of this stuff a few weeks ago which

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I just got to watch. I didn't want any spoilers,

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which he didn't. He didn't give me any spoilers in

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that video. But I love Jay's approach to kind of

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comparing what we see happening in Dune with the uh,

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you know, deep politics Game of Thrones. You know that

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that we're just kind of lame now because of the series,

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but you know, the the power struggles that go on

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at the upperationlons of power in the structure of uh

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kind of cosmic espionage that we see in the Dune films.

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We're gonna do a full deep analysis today. Jase Jays

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read the books. I've not read the books.

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Speaker 4: So we have six books. I've read the first two.

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Speaker 3: All right, he's read the first two books, which, from

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what I've heard, from what I've gleaned, cover basically what

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Dennis Villa ne you've.

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Speaker 4: It's called it's it's pronounced un. I will leave this podcast.

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I will leave this podcast.

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Speaker 3: Do you think it's funny? Do you think that's what?

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Do you think that's cute? Do you think it's cute

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to just you're just dead name? Somebody just pronounce his

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name wrong? Alright, how's the audio, guys? Let me make sure.

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Sometimes I forget to check the stream and they remind

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me how boomer my audio is. But I think I

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think we're good. I don't see anybody complaining about the audio.

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Speaker 4: It's a rarity.

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Speaker 3: We did it with No, we have no boomer errors

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in the beginning. Yeah, the only Boomer here, The only

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Boomer here is young Boomer, the greatest rapper alive, one

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of the only rappers left, one of the two of

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the only rappers left, Young Boomer. Little aids here. You know,

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you notice that neither of us has been caught up

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in some kind of human trafficking scandal. You know, maybe

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maybe some of the help that Jay's fired over the

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years have lodged some complaints about how he doesn't let

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them look him in the eyes, and how you know,

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the various strange.

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Speaker 4: People look down gonna get like a blinder, right, blinds

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that kind of they have over their face so they

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don't look me out.

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Speaker 3: Yeah no, but I mean just normal stuff like that.

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You might get complaints like that. You might get some

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slander from some of some of the help that used

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to work for me, particularly the my little uh my little,

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my little New Zealand I call them my little Zealanders,

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My my little, my little New Zealand. They're about four

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foot eight pygmy ladies that have plucked my head before

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these streams to get a nice and shiny as you

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notice I got. I got some fuzz going on here.

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I've lost I've lost a couple of employees lately. But

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you you might hear some weird things from them.

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Speaker 4: They're actually they're actually plucking out the hair implants that

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you got. It's not actually plucking out the real hair,

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that's the word.

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Speaker 3: They're they're plucking out the hair so that the hair

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so that the implants can be can be tried to.

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We try again.

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Speaker 4: They're actually plucking out your hair to make the implants

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to stick back in. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: No, they're saying that. They're I mean, here's the thing, guys,

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here's the thing. The uh you know there's something ridiculously

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here's the thing. The the doctor last time the implants

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didn't take my body rejected. They rejected the locks. They're

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they're saying that we need to get a racially we

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need to get a match that that that will actually

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be racially compatible with my head, with my skin.

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Speaker 4: Appropriated.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so some call it appropriation. I call it.

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Speaker 4: I call it.

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Speaker 3: This is what you do when you get paid, When

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you got that YouTube money, when you got that over

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one hundred viewers, slightly over one hundred live viewers on

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your YouTube stream, you get to you get to have

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your head plucked by the help.

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Speaker 4: People not watch the movies anymore. I don't understand. Nobody

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cares about this movie. What's going on?

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Speaker 3: We come, we come, We're not We're not like like

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your channel over there, Jay, we got we don't. We

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don't get as as much uh as many many folks

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over here. But nowhere the spice will flow, We'll get

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more live viewers. We're about quantity, not quality over here.

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So the the quality of view the quality of viewers

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very high. Yeah, kwanza, kwanza. So yeah, man, we got

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we got the We've got the The Chad Book respector

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versus the Virgin movie Enjoyer. We'll get two different perspectives.

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I gotta say, I did really, I did really like

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both of these films. I mean, I think, uh, you know,

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there are a lot of complaints. I've heard a lot

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of complaints. You know, Zendia ruined it. I get where

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people are coming from with some of that stuff. Some

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people upset with the Zendia the sick of see in

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her face. But I don't know, I've got a little

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bit of a different take, which I'll talk about later

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on with that kind of stuff. But yeah, we've got

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two movies here, Dune one June two, Part one, Part two. Uh.

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These two parts apparently are telling the entire story from

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the first Dune novel, which are our expert scholar Frank

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Herbert Frank Herbert Junior Jay Dyer here has read. And yeah,

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let's let's start out with the first one. Let's start

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out with the first one. It does, unfortunately start out

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with Zendia. You know, I was thinking we would get Yeah,

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Zendiah's scowling face.

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Speaker 4: Literally every scene she's got mad face. I watched it

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again last night, and every scene is she's like.

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Speaker 3: She smells something weird, she smells something peculiar. You know,

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she's trying to figure out what that what that stink

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is and gay. Yeah. Well, and and despite despite Zendiah

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and Twinket, the Shallow Shallow, may you know there's not

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the first one is pretty good. The first one is

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pretty dang good. Uh. The plot, the the pacing of it,

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the editing, and like visually, I think visually is what

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most people are are raving about is just how visually

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and and engaging this film is. You know, it's not

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and it's not just visual, it's the audio as well.

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It's kind of like a full sensory experience that they're

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going here, going for here with both of h with

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both of these films. So yeah, we've got We've got

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Paula Trades, who's the the young Star is a starry

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eyed young man with with the universe at his fingers,

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the universe, yeah, and a uh and his mother is

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His mother's a nang witch. His mother's a a Bena Jesuit.

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The Benajesritz are kind of this order of manipulative occultic

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them lord ladies who address.

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Speaker 4: Like espionage handlers of the religious world who have a

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kind of cult that have developed these techniques of mind

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control and so forth that they use to help run

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the universe from their bags. So they're they're one power faction.

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You've got the in the novel that is not a

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huge element of the movie. This movie, the Villain News version.

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Speaker 3: Left out.

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Speaker 4: Not much stress on the Trading Guild. The Trading Gill

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plays a pretty important role in the books and you

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have these weirdo guys who are kind of mutated from

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being human into being like these giant, sort of vagina

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looking creatures. Have you ever seen the David Lynch version.

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I meant to ask you if you've seen.

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Speaker 3: The David line. You know, I got about halfway through

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the David Lynch version and I fell asleep. Not because

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I hated it, but it's just I was so tired.

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But I tried to watch it. I think I might

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to try to watch it two times. I've seen select

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scenes from it since then, but yeah, I've never been

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able to get through the David.

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Speaker 4: Lynchl So if you remember the beginning, right when the

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guild Master comes to the the Emperor's Throne room, do

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you remember that weird guy in the tank.

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So they played a key role as a power

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faction representing kind of economics and the control of the

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spice and the use of the spice.

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Speaker 3: For like they're like they're like the Space bankers who

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kind of.

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Speaker 4: Kind of but they they're controlling commerce and travel. So

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like you need this spy the Spacing Guild to fold space.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they do that with they do that with

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the spice. Spice minannge that spice milllege which is only

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harvested on this single planet. There's one realm called Aracus

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where the freemen live there. So Iracus Iracus is you know,

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Herbert Frank Herbert was definitely thinking of you know, the

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Middle East. The Middle East Wars is kind of around

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the time of the rise of uh the Zion Estate.

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So you have all these different religious factions within the

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Middle East fighting for power over land resources, and of

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course Herbert Frank Herbert being a yeah, seemingly like skeptical,

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maybe not a full on nihilist, but more like a

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classical liberal libertari in type. When you look at kind

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of his what his worldview is. You know, I've heard him.

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He's got a quote where he says, the government is

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basically what are you? The Government's like a lie that

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we agree upon, kind of like they basically he put

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a little twist on the history as a lie agreed upon,

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but he says, the government is this illusion that we

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all pretend is real and we don't really need government.

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So you know, he most definitely interjected that kind of anarchist.

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Speaker 4: Well, he was a GOP speech writer, which is odd

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because this is not what we think of as sci

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fi writers. Typically, we think of sci fi people as

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like these full on kind of hgu WEL's socialist utopians

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where there's going to be you know, a kompod tech

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future or whatever. And so the couple things that I

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do appreciate about his future sci fi world is that

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we don't have faking Galiens, no Galians here. There's a

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ban on Ai. It kind of gets reinstated to a degree.

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Spiele don't necessarily follow. But there's this period called the

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Butlerian Jahad which happened prior to the events of Dune,

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where Ai enslaved men. The whole universe was enslaved by Ai,

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and this figure called u as Butler, he rose up

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and said it's time to overthrow and ban Ai. So

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that's just really odd out of place in terms of

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science fiction novels. And as we were saying, with the

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notion of the power struggles and the different factions, and

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you've got the emperor, you've got the different houses sort

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of noble houses. So it's an odd future where things

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that we think would also be gone, like nobility in

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an emperor in a you know, tech socialist utopia, rural

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equal you know, ah u.

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Speaker 3: L yeah, yeah exactly.

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Speaker 4: I like these elements being unique to a future sci

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fi world where it's not a bunch of the typical

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socialist stuff.

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Speaker 3: But totally totally Yeah, you're completely right, you know, it's

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it's really refreshing to have, you know. And what's interesting

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about this whole world is there's an assumed natural hierarchy

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that's unavoidable, right, Like, even even in fiction, even in

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the fiction world, you can't you can't conceive of a

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world where there isn't natural hierarchy, where there isn't where

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you know, marriage isn't you know, between a man and

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a woman, and anything outside of those boundaries is something

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that's destructive, which is regularly shown, at least in the films.

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I don't know if if I heard the Freemen are

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like Polly in the in the books.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, they're weird in the in the book, they're kind

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of so we have to understand, I think, as you're

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you're right there. You know, Herbert's definitely not Christian. His

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vision of the future is perennialist and secretoust, so uh,

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and it's kind of unclear he's not really conservative, as

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you pointed, out, but again there are some traditional.

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Speaker 3: He's like a libertarian, anarchist leaning kind of guy who

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you know, would align with more of the so called

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traditional right wing values of you know, I mean even

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he makes the hearken in like big fat gay slobs,

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you know, in the books. Also they're also peed, oh

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you exactly abuse children, and the novel is.

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Speaker 4: Very clear their peedo, which is interesting. So and like

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you said, he's running during the Cold War, So there's

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definitely this idea of we want to we want to

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point out the dangers of status tyranny, collectivism, stalinism. Those

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are obviously kind of being critiqued. But also he I

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think if you read U Dow Messiah the sequel, he

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wanted to, uh note that even good guys can be

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tempted with too much power. Because Paul Paul becomes a

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kind of a back and forth tragic hero. He kind

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of is a hero, but he kind of isn't And

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in the long running is of definitely a good guy.

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But but he's definitely not the Messiah we think he is.

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And so that's that's something that the story, it's a

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direction the story he goes that most people don't expect

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and you don't think if you only watch and see.

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Here's the thing. I grew up watching the David Lynch Dune.

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I've always loved it. Everybody hated it. It's it's critically

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you know, despised. I just I've always liked it ever

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since I was a kid watching it. Just something about

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it was unique. And the other thing I appreciated about

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the Dnnist version is I was worried that they wouldn't

285
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have some homage and elements of the David Lynch version

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in it, but they did. They kept some of those elements.

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It kind of has a Lynch spirit to it, which

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I appreciate. And that might just be would you what.

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Speaker 3: Are some of those elements like that? You would have

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expected them to.

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Speaker 4: Some of the aesthetics, And I mean maybe that's attributable

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to the the Giger art concept art, but also it

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might be that I think Dennis and Lynch were both

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really striving to be faithful to the book, the original.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, who's Dennis? You mean?

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Speaker 4: I was calling him Denis to piss off the nerves?

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Speaker 3: Now you have to put the accent in the right.

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Speaker 4: Exactly you It's it's it's Kiev. It's not Kiev. It's

299
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I don't know if you know how to pronounce words

300
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or not, but it's ghost. Yeah. So some of the

301
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elements I think of the of the Lynch version, of

302
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the cinematography, that the the aesthetics that carry over. And

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the reason I like that is that because the novels

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are syncretists, you've got Islamic influence, you've got Zen influence,

305
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You've got particularly sunny sort of Islam, You've got Catholic

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influence because in the in the religion, the world of doing,

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the religion is called it's called the Orange Catholic Bible.

308
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And this is this idea where in the future the

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Catholicism and Islam have fused into this bizarre sort of

310
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kind of a Nestorian type of Christianity, you could say.

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And I think that's kind of why Paul is a

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is a sort of God figure who he's not exactly

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the Word of God, but sometimes he calls himself the

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Voice of God, the voice from the outer world.

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Speaker 3: But does he do that in the first novel. Is

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that only later on where he starts using that language.

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Speaker 4: No, it's it's in the novel.

318
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Speaker 3: Because yeah, in the film he doesn't use that specific term.

319
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Speaker 1: He does.

320
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Speaker 3: He does reference God will one time at least in the.

321
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Speaker 4: Film he says voice of God. I think at the

322
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in the last sequence, because we just watched it last night,

323
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when you know, when he's confronting at the very fact

324
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the last thing when he fights Fade and he's basically

325
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sassing everybody, he sasses Christopher Walking and the Reverend Mother

326
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and he says something like I am the Voice or

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something like that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he did. I wish we had I wish I

329
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had like a there was a DVD version, because you know,

330
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I could only see it once, the second one. But yeah,

331
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I remember at some point he does he does use

332
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the term God. So it's it's an interesting thing how

333
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in most sci fi now scientism comes like the religion, right,

334
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It's assumed that scientism is true. So most sci fi

335
00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:10,720
will focus on either a dystopian vision of the future

336
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where scientism kind of goes too far in one direction,

337
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and you know, maybe we should rearrange our priorities and

338
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be a little bit more humanist in our in our approach.

339
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And you know, so there's this sci fi has become,

340
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:29,920
so it's become so dreary, it's so demoralizing, right, some

341
00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:35,759
sci fi films in general a propaganda tool for demoralization,

342
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for bringing out you know, new tech, for uh, you know,

343
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kind of just forming the worldview, right, this kind of

344
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an idea of occult worldview warfare. Hollywood is very much

345
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you know, the benages or order to such an extent

346
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that there are like the new priesthoods. So it's it's

347
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almost surprising that these films were made in the way

348
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that they were, although you know there are are the

349
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you know, there is the and this seems to come

350
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from Frank Herbert, this very skeptical towards religion, very uh uh,

351
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you know, really kind of bitter about you know, the

352
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idea of a Messiah figure. This extreme skepticism towards anything

353
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any man becoming a great man. You see that theme

354
00:23:20,319 --> 00:23:24,079
throughout Hollywood, but it it kind of gets subverted in Dune,

355
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at least the first two in a lot of ways.

356
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I'm almost worried. I mean, I was thinking about this

357
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at the end of Doune part two, like they're just

358
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they're they're going to ruin it because there's.

359
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Speaker 4: Some there is a danger that doing Messiah, because he

360
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does I think he does plan to make so the

361
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next story will be doing Messiah, which is the sequel

362
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of the books. But remember, so there's a there's and

363
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I've not finished it yet, but apparently when I'm told

364
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happens without swung the whole story. But so, Paul is

365
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going to have twins, and one of those twins famously

366
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will become Wormboy. So the way that the salvation of

367
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:07,119
the human race happens in the story is that leto

368
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:09,160
the Second and Paul, one of the Paul's twins, there's

369
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a sister and a brother, leader the second will merge

370
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with the worm, and that's partly why we've seen so

371
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,119
many kind of mystical connections between Paul and the Worm

372
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to become the worm Emperor, and this actually initiates a

373
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thousand year reign of peace or the human race, which

374
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ends up being the only timeline that Paul could have

375
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chosen to save the human race. So in the long run,

376
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what Herbert ended up doing was kind of making Paul

377
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sort of a kind of Messiah. It didn't exactly go

378
00:24:44,319 --> 00:24:47,920
the way that everybody planned, but that I think is

379
00:24:48,079 --> 00:24:51,079
the point of the story that the things that you

380
00:24:51,119 --> 00:24:55,519
think initially are kind of at odds Shailu versus the humans. Right,

381
00:24:55,799 --> 00:25:00,359
they actually become merged. And I'm not say saying that

382
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,119
that's ethical or moral or Christian. I'm just saying that

383
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:06,480
it's it's unique. And ultimately Paul does end up being

384
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,559
not a bad guy. He makes mistakes, but he's kind

385
00:25:10,559 --> 00:25:15,319
of inadvertent Messiah or lineage savior. You might could argue

386
00:25:15,319 --> 00:25:17,519
that Lido, the worm boy, is the savior by the

387
00:25:17,519 --> 00:25:18,039
word boy.

388
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, so that worm could become actually make a.

389
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Speaker 4: Part four that will be wild. I mean you're gonna

390
00:25:25,519 --> 00:25:27,759
see like the Worm Emperor. That's gonna be wild.

391
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Speaker 3: I almost wish that they would just just leave it,

392
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:32,839
just leave it at the two, because I love the

393
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:34,759
way that it ends. It's so it leaves it so

394
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,720
open ended, and it's interesting seeing people argue. Right, You'll

395
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,359
see people kind of like in Are you know, people

396
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:45,319
coming from more of a Christian from the right, more

397
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,839
right wing perspective, saying that they love the film right,

398
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,640
that they love the aspect of the assumption, like you

399
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,759
can't get away from monarchy, he can't get away from patriarchy,

400
00:25:56,759 --> 00:26:01,720
you don't get away from hierarchy. The the free will

401
00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:05,279
aspect of the film of their being. You know, Yet

402
00:26:05,319 --> 00:26:07,680
these characters, no matter how far along they go in

403
00:26:07,759 --> 00:26:10,880
this like demonic realm of being totally taken over by

404
00:26:12,079 --> 00:26:14,319
they're not taken over by, but consuming so much of

405
00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,240
the spice, which allows Paul to see the past and

406
00:26:17,279 --> 00:26:23,119
the future. He still has free will, and his choices

407
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,880
end up leading and he tries to take what he

408
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,119
calls like the Golden path or whatever. So this the

409
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:31,839
path that will result in it's not really clear. It

410
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,559
doesn't He doesn't overtly state his desires. You see that

411
00:26:34,599 --> 00:26:37,759
he has some sympathy towards the Fremen, who are you know,

412
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:40,319
there's an aspect of the Fremen being. You know, they're

413
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,319
kind of the guerrilla warfare guys. They're the you know,

414
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:46,519
the mystics who live this kind of nature based religion.

415
00:26:46,759 --> 00:26:50,480
So they're, you know, they It's not like a full

416
00:26:50,519 --> 00:26:55,839
on Marxist undertone as Blater Onner twenty forty nine had,

417
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:59,720
which is another Deniven new film, which was a great film,

418
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:05,319
flawed in some ways, but you know, it's a fantastic film.

419
00:27:05,599 --> 00:27:09,200
Paul sympathizes with them, but then he's also drawn towards

420
00:27:09,599 --> 00:27:13,160
his destiny, right, He's drawn towards this greatness, and I

421
00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,319
think in Hollywood you have this at this demonization of

422
00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,359
you know, actual greatness. Right, Like I didn't watch I

423
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,599
didn't watch the Napoleon film, but it seems and I

424
00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,480
think Napoleon was a total antichrist figure. But at the

425
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,119
same time, it's just this trope of, well, there are

426
00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:33,200
great men that rise up every once in a while,

427
00:27:33,279 --> 00:27:35,400
and it's awful and terrible, and we have to do

428
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:38,920
everything that we can to stop that from ever happening again,

429
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,759
from any you know, single man becoming so great and

430
00:27:41,759 --> 00:27:42,640
having so much power.

431
00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:45,839
Speaker 4: You know that again, they may do that in the

432
00:27:46,160 --> 00:27:49,960
third one, but I think people will it would be

433
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:53,960
such a flop because it's not the way the storyline goes,

434
00:27:54,079 --> 00:27:56,200
and in fact, it's it's not even really gonna work

435
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,640
for a feminist narrative because for those that don't know,

436
00:28:00,079 --> 00:28:03,640
Paul's sister Alia is a hugely tragic figure. She will

437
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,799
be more powerful than Paul because he's actually born. So

438
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:12,759
when Jessica drinks the water of life, this actually like

439
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,039
double empowers Alia.

440
00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:18,279
Speaker 3: And the water of life being this like super distilled

441
00:28:18,319 --> 00:28:20,240
spice in a lot of ways, right, because the worms

442
00:28:20,319 --> 00:28:23,400
are crawling through this planet a rackets. Well, it's like,

443
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,359
I mean, the worms are feeding on they're sifting all

444
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,480
this sand, consuming these giant spice harvesters, consuming all the

445
00:28:31,599 --> 00:28:33,799
water from the people. So it's like the worms are

446
00:28:33,799 --> 00:28:37,200
this symbol of just consumption, but this natural cycle of

447
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:39,799
death of like the underworld, right, and then to get

448
00:28:39,839 --> 00:28:41,920
the water of life, I thought it was well done.

449
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:43,799
You know, they have to get a small baby worm

450
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,720
and suck out the fluid from inside of it, which

451
00:28:47,759 --> 00:28:49,640
of course I would. You know. It's like it's almost

452
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,640
like this alchemical transformation of the spice into this super

453
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:54,559
concentrated almost poison.

454
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,440
Speaker 4: Correct, it's a super potent hallucinogen, and in the book

455
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:03,000
it's made really clear when when Paul drinks it, it's

456
00:29:03,039 --> 00:29:06,720
a really intense basically like mega d mt acid trip. Okay,

457
00:29:06,839 --> 00:29:12,039
so again we're space as we're not talking about anything Christian.

458
00:29:12,319 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 3: There's just these sort of it's very gnostic, right, I mean,

459
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,799
it's this material that you can find consume and this

460
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:22,240
material will hyper accelerate your consciousness so that you can

461
00:29:22,319 --> 00:29:26,319
have more power within the realm, within the known universe.

462
00:29:26,839 --> 00:29:28,759
So it's kind of and it's a it's the spices

463
00:29:28,839 --> 00:29:33,079
itself really demonic. I mean, it's an evil thing that

464
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:38,240
actually ends up drawing people into I mean, it seems

465
00:29:38,279 --> 00:29:41,440
like the spice is this catalyst for these massive genocides,

466
00:29:41,519 --> 00:29:44,799
these holy wars, and these battles for resources. Would you

467
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:45,920
would you agree.

468
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,799
Speaker 4: With that or do you think I think I don't

469
00:29:48,839 --> 00:29:51,400
think it's I think it's a neutral thing in the story.

470
00:29:52,799 --> 00:29:57,279
It's a very powerful commodity that has the ability to

471
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:05,519
give you, you know, advanced vision, enlightenment and the space travel.

472
00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:11,359
So it's kind of like Heroin Heroin oil, right, sure.

473
00:30:11,759 --> 00:30:13,759
Speaker 3: But it also it's like, I mean, it's almost from

474
00:30:13,799 --> 00:30:16,480
the Christian perspective, is you're kind of looking at like

475
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:19,559
the tree of the tree the knowledge of good and

476
00:30:19,599 --> 00:30:22,720
evil in a lot of ways, you know, and it's

477
00:30:22,799 --> 00:30:27,079
used sacramentally, uh, in certain contexts. So there's this. What

478
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:28,880
I what I do like about this too is the

479
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:32,000
way it's portrayed is how religion is inevitable. Faith is

480
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:36,640
the fabric of the cosmos. Faith is the driving force

481
00:30:36,839 --> 00:30:42,440
between behind every single character's actions, including even even Polytrdes

482
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,720
and his mother, Lady Jessica. The Lady Jessica, the mother

483
00:30:46,799 --> 00:30:49,680
of Polytrdes, is the member of the Ben and Jestrit Order,

484
00:30:49,759 --> 00:30:53,400
who even the name is based on Jesuit, right, the

485
00:30:53,519 --> 00:30:58,200
Jesuit Order, the Benjesra, Yeah, the Beny Jesuits, which is

486
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,400
you know, referring to to the Jesuits. But also there

487
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:07,400
are aspects of many different kind of religious occult religious

488
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:12,920
type groups that are there. But she she ends up

489
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:17,279
and it's hard to tell whether she's manipulating sometimes when

490
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,519
she's speaking to what's her name, Aliyah in the womb, right,

491
00:31:21,559 --> 00:31:23,119
I mean, I remember at the end, near the end

492
00:31:23,119 --> 00:31:25,319
of the film, Aliyah starts speaking to her after she

493
00:31:25,359 --> 00:31:28,119
had taken this water of life. Aliah has this awakening

494
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:31,920
and she becomes this fetus in the womb is telepathically

495
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,359
communicating with her mother, and it is becoming very powerful.

496
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:38,599
Speaker 4: Right. That's what I'm saying, is that what happens, and

497
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,880
this is why won't really work unless they significantly depart

498
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,720
from the novel. This in the next one is that

499
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,240
there's no way to make this feminist unless you just

500
00:31:47,279 --> 00:31:51,359
totally depart from the story. Because Aliat will be born

501
00:31:51,799 --> 00:31:55,680
with all the powers of a grown, mature reverend mother,

502
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:59,240
which as a child is really unheard of, and so

503
00:32:00,079 --> 00:32:02,240
if you remember in the novel are in the movie

504
00:32:02,359 --> 00:32:06,000
at the end the Christopher Walkins reverend mother was saying

505
00:32:06,079 --> 00:32:08,759
that all of our hope is not just in Paul.

506
00:32:08,839 --> 00:32:12,519
There are others which could be the child of Fate Ralph,

507
00:32:12,799 --> 00:32:15,319
or it could be Alia. And the thing with Alia

508
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,079
is that she will There's some really wild stuff in

509
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:23,319
Do Messiah. That's it's almost seems Crollian, because she eventually

510
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,279
gets her own cult, so people start worshiping her. There's

511
00:32:26,279 --> 00:32:29,599
a religion that forms around her. The imagery has shown

512
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:31,839
where that she almost had. She has like this ritual

513
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,160
where she holds up a chalice. It's very reminiscent of

514
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,039
like the horror Babylon in the Book of Revelation. Again

515
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,960
perhaps even Krollian, the way Crowley speaks of the scarlet woman.

516
00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:46,279
And then Alia ends up going matt so she goes crazy.

517
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:49,240
She's going to be a villain, the tragic villain figure.

518
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:51,319
Speaker 3: She has to that. You have to do that with

519
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,400
that character. She's got to be completely twisted and insane.

520
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 4: And here's the crazy part. She will actually be. This

521
00:32:58,319 --> 00:33:01,599
is something that this novel deals with. I'm not aware

522
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:03,759
of other maybe some soci fi novels. I'm not a

523
00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:04,799
huge sci fi reader, but.

524
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:06,799
Speaker 3: That's in Dune Messiah where she goes nuts.

525
00:33:07,079 --> 00:33:09,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the novel deals with genetic memories. So if

526
00:33:09,839 --> 00:33:14,160
you remember the when when Jessica drinks the water bluff,

527
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,880
she remembers and has the knowledge of all the previous

528
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,119
Reverend mothers because of genetic memories. Paul is awakened to

529
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,000
genetic memories as well. That's why he's always talking about

530
00:33:24,519 --> 00:33:27,480
the sleeper must awaken and so forth, which is more

531
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:30,119
prominent in the David Lynch one than in this one.

532
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:34,839
But yeah, the genetic memories empower you. But there's a

533
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:37,440
downside of the genetic memories which can empower you, which

534
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:41,079
is that you can also be possessed by alternate personalities

535
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,440
of your relatives. So when Alia gets possessed, she actually

536
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,240
gets possessed by Baron Harkone because that's her granddad. Okay,

537
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:50,839
that's crazy.

538
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 3: Well there's that life from Paul. He's like, we will

539
00:33:53,519 --> 00:33:55,640
win by what did he say, well, win by being

540
00:33:55,799 --> 00:33:57,480
like the Hearkeners.

541
00:33:57,519 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 4: Does will have to be like him? Then he finds

542
00:33:59,000 --> 00:33:59,599
out he is one?

543
00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: Right, So.

544
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 4: But at one point I didn't want to make earlier

545
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,760
so he's in the novel. He is the voice from

546
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,920
the outer world, so he is identified as the Voice

547
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,000
of God, the Word of God. And again it's weird

548
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,800
because it's not exactly explained. It's kind of maybe meant

549
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:23,320
in a Nestorian ish sense. So, but there's a great

550
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:24,800
scene in the David Lynch one at the end where

551
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,079
when he kills Fade, he speaks and it like splits

552
00:34:28,119 --> 00:34:32,480
Fade open because he has that power, and apparently that

553
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:35,400
that was kind of unique to the Lynch one, where

554
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,760
there's not I don't know, it's been ten years since

555
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:39,239
I read the novel. I remember a lot of it,

556
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,719
but I don't. They don't have the killing words like

557
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:45,280
they do in the David Lynch version. So if you

558
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:48,159
notice in the dentist version they don't fight with words,

559
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,440
that's unique to the David Lynch version. You know what

560
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:52,079
I'm talking about.

561
00:34:53,639 --> 00:34:55,400
Speaker 3: I didn't see the end of the David Lynch version.

562
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,840
Speaker 4: You know how it's throughout it. But do you remember

563
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,800
how when Jessica, for example, she.

564
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: Uses the voice she's training Paul to use use the

565
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,320
voice here, come over here, and then the other benijesterrit

566
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:12,000
Seductress uses the voice on fadea Lynch version.

567
00:35:12,119 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 4: They developed that idea of the Weirding way, where Paul

568
00:35:15,880 --> 00:35:18,800
teaches the Fremen how to fight with words, so you

569
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,880
can actually say a killing word and it like this

570
00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,880
little machine projects the word out. I always thought that

571
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:25,239
was cool.

572
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:27,679
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool. I guess I could see why it

573
00:35:27,679 --> 00:35:30,800
would be really difficult to portray in film, right, you know,

574
00:35:30,960 --> 00:35:35,000
for a novel, it's way easier to portray, but especially

575
00:35:35,079 --> 00:35:38,159
after Star Wars, right, because well, that's another thing that

576
00:35:38,199 --> 00:35:40,960
you notice when you watch Dune, realizing that the first

577
00:35:41,039 --> 00:35:46,159
novels were written in the nineteen sixty five I mean,

578
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,519
Star Wars is almost completely based.

579
00:35:48,199 --> 00:35:48,559
Speaker 4: Off of this.

580
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 3: Star Wars is just like a distilled uh normy version

581
00:35:53,519 --> 00:35:57,280
of None for people with eighty five I Q, it's

582
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,719
not it's I mean, the Jedi mind tricks, the even

583
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,800
the the relationship between Luke and his and Darth Vader. Right,

584
00:36:07,239 --> 00:36:09,440
you have Paul a Trade he's finding out that his

585
00:36:09,639 --> 00:36:13,960
grandfather is Baron Harken, and you have a similar situation

586
00:36:14,159 --> 00:36:17,159
in uh in Star Wars where he finds out that

587
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,760
Vader is his father. And there's there's just there's so

588
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:21,440
many parallels.

589
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,119
Speaker 4: And but yeah, I gotta say, is just like a

590
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,079
Racus right where is Yeah, there's a lot of these,

591
00:36:28,159 --> 00:36:29,880
by the way. I also the more I thought about

592
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:33,000
Game of Thrones, I mean I have to believe that

593
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,239
George Martin was pulling from this as well, and even

594
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,039
to the point of like low Iq Marvel stuff. I mean,

595
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:42,360
if you think about it, the fact that Paul is

596
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:46,159
enlightened via the Ritual and then he sees various timelines

597
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:49,920
that he chooses one from that that's the same plot

598
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:56,199
as Doctor Strange in The Avengers, where he has to

599
00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,320
depopulate the universe by allowing fan of he indirectly allows

600
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,960
Danos to win, which he populates the universe, and that

601
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:07,360
is later explained that Doctor Strains chose the one timeline

602
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,719
where he can save the human race straight out of Dun. Yeah.

603
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, There's so many parallels and it really makes

604
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:18,639
you it really makes it easier to diss on George

605
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,920
Lucas and Star Wars, which.

606
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,119
Speaker 4: It's almost like all the fantasy rips off Lord of

607
00:37:24,159 --> 00:37:26,239
the Rings and all the sci fi rips off Duane.

608
00:37:26,159 --> 00:37:29,159
Speaker 3: Basically sure, sure, And I think Dune pulled a little

609
00:37:29,159 --> 00:37:30,599
bit from Lord of the Rings as well. I mean,

610
00:37:30,679 --> 00:37:33,280
you know, I mean the spice, the ring there. There

611
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,880
there are certain parallels there that you know, maybe in

612
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,639
fantasy sci fi is this type of symbolism is unavoidable.

613
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,840
But I see some some parallels there. Have you come

614
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,960
across the fact that Tolkien really disliked Dune. He didn't

615
00:37:47,039 --> 00:37:51,000
like Frank from what I've read, I haven't read the

616
00:37:51,159 --> 00:37:54,840
direct quotes from him, but Tolkien didn't like the cynical

617
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:59,679
nature of Frank Herbert's the reality where there's there's no

618
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,519
there's no real clear good and evil. There's just like

619
00:38:03,679 --> 00:38:08,119
way evil and slightly less evil, which I think it

620
00:38:08,280 --> 00:38:10,840
ends up working against Herbert. I think this is one

621
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:13,559
of those films, just like I don't know, you look

622
00:38:13,679 --> 00:38:15,480
like the Barbie movie, where you've got a bunch of

623
00:38:15,559 --> 00:38:18,760
liberals try to make a film where it's they're trying

624
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,679
to give you one message, but they end up subverting

625
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:25,800
their own message because they're unavoidably stepping in their own filth,

626
00:38:26,159 --> 00:38:29,920
and they end up making something really interesting. And I

627
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:35,159
think even with Herbert his cynicism towards religion. From what

628
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:38,599
I've heard, he wrote the first book and then was

629
00:38:38,679 --> 00:38:42,239
really upset with how people were lionizing Paul, and people

630
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:47,719
really were like Paul is the people saw Paul as

631
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:50,360
being such a great figure. Like it really the first

632
00:38:50,679 --> 00:38:52,639
The Dune, Part one and part two, it's almost like

633
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:58,840
a hagiography about this character Paul, who has the opportunity

634
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,840
to be a true leader. He really does a lot

635
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:06,480
of great things. We don't know his true motivations ultimately,

636
00:39:06,679 --> 00:39:10,239
but there are possible selfish motivations for a lot of

637
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,400
what he does, revenge, you know, vengeance being a major

638
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,159
thing for him. But it's almost like a secular hagiography

639
00:39:17,320 --> 00:39:21,760
of this great man figure who is a type of Antichrist. Right,

640
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,480
he is a type of Antichrist, and that he's manipulating

641
00:39:26,599 --> 00:39:31,800
certain prophecies and fulfilling this role as this prophet within

642
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,519
the structure of these prophecies to get things done geopolitically

643
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:39,199
and personally. But then there's another layer of this where

644
00:39:39,639 --> 00:39:42,960
the audience is not so sure. Well, perhaps perhaps there's

645
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:45,840
some truth to these prophecies, because even Lady Jessica ends

646
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,920
up saying that the fetus, what is that child called Aliyah,

647
00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,000
And it's I'm so glad that they used it. They

648
00:39:55,199 --> 00:39:58,440
used Ai to actually bring back Aliyah. From the from

649
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,639
the nineties and and she Yeah, she has some great solo.

650
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,079
She has some great songs in the film as well,

651
00:40:05,239 --> 00:40:08,719
so that the fact that they used Aliyah it was great.

652
00:40:09,199 --> 00:40:11,440
I'm joking boomer joke.

653
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 4: But either way, that's a gen X joke.

654
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 3: Bro Alia Aliah, like none of the Zoomer is watching.

655
00:40:17,440 --> 00:40:19,320
If there are any Zoomers, you're not even allowed to

656
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:24,119
watch this. But yeah, I think I think so man.

657
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 4: I think like.

658
00:40:26,679 --> 00:40:30,079
Speaker 3: Did he had her jay Z and those people they

659
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,000
think they're messed with her when she was really young.

660
00:40:32,119 --> 00:40:36,320
She was like sixteen fifteen, which is famous. So anyways,

661
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,800
Aliyah tells, well, Jessica tells Paul that Aliah is telling

662
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:44,280
her that Aliyah believes in him and it's starting to

663
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,719
believe that the prophecies are real. So you get this

664
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:50,480
aspect of well, you're not so sure. Are the prophecies

665
00:40:50,599 --> 00:40:55,760
all just benjeser It manipulations for geopolitical power and for

666
00:40:56,679 --> 00:41:01,000
power over people? Or is the an aspect of truth

667
00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,400
is Paul the Lea song is at the lisan Al

668
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:07,519
Gayib or whatever is he is? He truly lisan Al Gaib.

669
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:12,519
It's open ended, and I think that ends up undermining

670
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:16,920
the cynical viewing of the film as and like all

671
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:20,599
religion is just fake. It's all just like some people

672
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,480
that are just trying to control you and get your

673
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,239
magic mushrooms so that they can have all the magic

674
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,960
mushrooms and do the space acid so that they can

675
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,480
fold space time or whatever. It's like, I don't know,

676
00:41:30,559 --> 00:41:33,119
I think I kind of like, I kind of like

677
00:41:33,199 --> 00:41:37,320
how it ends without the dude Messiah addition, because you've

678
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,280
got at the end of it and then I know

679
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:43,079
you've got a lot of great insights too. J Sor

680
00:41:43,119 --> 00:41:46,599
I've been rambling here, but you have this kind of

681
00:41:46,639 --> 00:41:52,480
great man figure who ends up leading these people into

682
00:41:52,519 --> 00:41:54,599
a holy war. And at the end of the in

683
00:41:54,679 --> 00:41:57,400
the theater, most people are like cheering on. They're like, yeah,

684
00:41:57,519 --> 00:42:00,840
holy war, this is based like we love it. And

685
00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:02,679
I think a lot of that's because of the aesthetics

686
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:08,760
of it. The aesthetics of the film are are it's

687
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,480
a beautiful. The cinematography is amazing, the way that it's shot,

688
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:17,039
even the color schemes. It's not that sound the sound

689
00:42:17,159 --> 00:42:19,280
is amazing. So all the aesthetics lead you to be

690
00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,000
cheering on for Paul. You want Paul to win because

691
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,480
he's facing little little fat uh you know, pedo demon guys,

692
00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:31,400
and you want him to you want him to be

693
00:42:31,519 --> 00:42:34,079
the Lisana al gaib And in the end of it,

694
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:38,920
even Chani, the kind of obnoxious character who's basically a

695
00:42:39,039 --> 00:42:42,800
stand in Channis. Like throughout the films, Channi is the

696
00:42:43,000 --> 00:42:47,079
character the audience is supposed to be seeing themselves in.

697
00:42:47,199 --> 00:42:49,440
The audience is supposed to be seeing the world through Channi,

698
00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:52,159
and that's why she's there at all these key moments.

699
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,920
And she's not really like a feminist figure, but she's

700
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:57,840
a little girl bossy. I mean, she's fighting in the

701
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:03,119
war and stuff, and she's there's a romantic element to this,

702
00:43:03,280 --> 00:43:06,000
and she feels betrayed by Paul, right Paul she had

703
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:08,440
told Paul, I'll love you for as long as you

704
00:43:08,639 --> 00:43:11,880
are who you are or something like that, and as

705
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,400
he changes, she gets to scall at him and make

706
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,960
this stink face, you know, angry girlfriend vibe. And then

707
00:43:19,039 --> 00:43:21,760
it gets really intense in the end when he ends

708
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:25,559
up leading everybody off of Aracus. He says, let's go.

709
00:43:25,679 --> 00:43:27,719
We're gonna go to the Green Paradise, We're gonna go

710
00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:30,800
to war, We're having a dang holy war with the

711
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,480
rest of the houses. They all get on the ships

712
00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,480
and they leave, and Chinese stays behind. And the character

713
00:43:37,559 --> 00:43:40,039
that's supposed to represent like the Western view or the

714
00:43:40,199 --> 00:43:44,280
average cynical about religion. Oh, it's all just fake prophecies

715
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,000
to manipulate you and take your oil.

716
00:43:46,079 --> 00:43:46,199
Speaker 1: Bro.

717
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:50,719
Speaker 3: She ends up rage crying and soyjacking alone with a

718
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:53,760
giant worm on the sand world at the end of

719
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:57,719
the film. So it definitely subverts your expectations on what's

720
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,119
supposed to happen. And she gets she gets completely cooked

721
00:44:01,199 --> 00:44:05,079
by Paul, who marries the emperor's daughter, who's actually beautiful.

722
00:44:05,119 --> 00:44:08,880
I'm like Zendia. He marries like the Emperor Paul, the episody,

723
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:12,079
not the Emperor Paul. Paul becomes emperor and takes the

724
00:44:12,199 --> 00:44:17,239
hand of the princess to marry her in a political move,

725
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,800
which you know, there's not like a romance between the

726
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:24,440
two at this point. It's purely political. And Zendaiah is

727
00:44:24,559 --> 00:44:29,280
left pissy, scowling and just rage crying at the end

728
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:29,880
of the film.

729
00:44:30,039 --> 00:44:33,480
Speaker 4: So yeah, I think they probably chose for Hollywood reasons

730
00:44:33,599 --> 00:44:38,320
to turn Chawny into this sort of sassy conflicted character,

731
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,559
because I don't recall any of that in the book.

732
00:44:40,599 --> 00:44:43,039
I'm pretty sure she's you know, if you watch the

733
00:44:43,119 --> 00:44:45,280
David Lynch version, it's a little closer to the book

734
00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,199
in this regard because Mary Sean Young's character as Chawny

735
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:54,960
basically just totally like never she's fierce, and she's always

736
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,440
sort of this primal tribal woman that she never questions

737
00:44:58,519 --> 00:45:02,559
Paul or like in doing Messiah, she does kind of

738
00:45:02,599 --> 00:45:05,159
give pushback on some of his ideas and some of

739
00:45:05,199 --> 00:45:09,039
what she's worried about him. Because ironically, in doing Messiah,

740
00:45:09,119 --> 00:45:12,679
he turns into more of a machine. He becomes a

741
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:18,760
mentat and sot. So the mentats were when they banned

742
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,960
AI in the Butlery and Jahad. The way to get

743
00:45:22,039 --> 00:45:26,199
around this was that they have genetic manipulation, and genetic

744
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:30,000
manipulation can allow for the creation of highly like super

745
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:32,400
high IQ people. So if you remember in Dune one,

746
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,559
that black dude that has the white eyes.

747
00:45:34,840 --> 00:45:37,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, isn't he the first character shown? The guy that

748
00:45:37,519 --> 00:45:39,360
uh is the guy that polked? Oh no, I'm sorry,

749
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:41,920
the black dude, the like albino is black dude. He

750
00:45:42,039 --> 00:45:42,920
got the line on his U.

751
00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:46,639
Speaker 4: Yeah, in the David Lynch version that the Mentats have

752
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:50,599
like these really huge eyebrows, and so the Mentat has

753
00:45:50,679 --> 00:45:53,760
become the super high i Q Spurg. They're basically the Spurgs.

754
00:45:54,480 --> 00:46:00,480
They're the Spurgs that consult Uh and plan Uh like

755
00:46:00,599 --> 00:46:05,880
savants for the ruling powers. So like the Baron has

756
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,039
a mentat the House of Trades, has a mentat Thufer.

757
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,320
And so Paul ends up becoming one of these human

758
00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:16,440
supercomputers in a way because he's not he doesn't want

759
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,440
to at all be controlled by emotion, so he becomes

760
00:46:18,519 --> 00:46:23,000
this very calculated, cold machine like thing, and he's alienated,

761
00:46:23,559 --> 00:46:27,280
so he doesn't relate to people. The closest connection he has,

762
00:46:27,840 --> 00:46:33,360
ironically is actually Chawny, but even she's kind of simple

763
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,119
to him because he's kind of like the pseudo god figure.

764
00:46:36,679 --> 00:46:38,760
So he's kind of losing connection to the human race.

765
00:46:38,840 --> 00:46:41,840
And this is partly what makes him a tragic figure.

766
00:46:42,039 --> 00:46:44,000
And and but he's not. He doesn't end up being

767
00:46:44,000 --> 00:46:47,119
an anti Cris. He actually ends up being this well

768
00:46:47,119 --> 00:46:49,840
it's meg a lobstory short. He ends up blinded by

769
00:46:50,039 --> 00:46:53,440
an event in doing Messiah, so he loses his eyesight

770
00:46:54,440 --> 00:47:00,280
from an atomic going off, and he realized this is

771
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:04,079
his mistake that he isn't He does end up troubled

772
00:47:04,079 --> 00:47:06,239
from the Jahad because you get like sixty or eighty

773
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,320
billion people in the universe end up dying from the

774
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:12,440
Shahad that he kicks off, and he ends up retreating

775
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:15,039
into the desert like Obi wan Kenobi as a hermit.

776
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 3: Does he lose the jihad or does he win the Jahad?

777
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 4: Well, they they kind of win, but it's not his

778
00:47:23,639 --> 00:47:27,920
jihad that saves everybody. It ends up in huge misery.

779
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,400
But what I'm saying is that the big irony here

780
00:47:30,440 --> 00:47:32,679
is that it's his it's his son who's the worm

781
00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:37,880
boy that ends up bringing peace. So what I think

782
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:39,840
is going on, I'm speculating here because I haven't finished

783
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:45,719
the whole storyline, but I think Herbert, maybe to your point,

784
00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:48,719
saw that people shouldn't have been lionizing Paul in the

785
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:52,280
first one. You Messiah makes him a cautionary figure, but

786
00:47:52,440 --> 00:47:54,360
ultimately he's not a bad guy because in a weird

787
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:58,119
inadvertent way, the prophecies end up kind of being true.

788
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 3: So he's like, he's like freaking out. He's like, no,

789
00:48:01,039 --> 00:48:03,239
you guys don't understand it, Paul's not a good guy,

790
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:05,039
and then he kind of seems like he tried to

791
00:48:05,119 --> 00:48:10,079
retcon it a little bit and retroactively changed the interpretation

792
00:48:10,199 --> 00:48:12,199
that you're supposed to get from it by adding more

793
00:48:12,239 --> 00:48:14,639
to the story. But maybe he just I don't know.

794
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:16,599
It's one of those things where it's like the piece

795
00:48:16,639 --> 00:48:19,480
of art got out of the artist's hands almost, you know,

796
00:48:19,599 --> 00:48:21,000
I just like everybody.

797
00:48:21,159 --> 00:48:24,039
Speaker 4: I mean, the sequels are famously weird. I mean they

798
00:48:24,159 --> 00:48:25,119
and they get weirder.

799
00:48:26,039 --> 00:48:28,039
Speaker 3: So you think he was tripping a lot. Was he taken?

800
00:48:28,119 --> 00:48:30,639
Speaker 4: I mean I wondered about that. I couldn't find any

801
00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:35,679
evidence of him actually necessarily doing drugs. Very possible, but I.

802
00:48:35,719 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 3: Can't imagine him writing is like the storyline about Paul

803
00:48:39,039 --> 00:48:43,320
taking so much spice that he becomes unable to interact

804
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,000
with people in a normal way. I mean, it just

805
00:48:46,119 --> 00:48:48,559
it reminds me of people who have just gone so

806
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,280
far down the you know, people who just really overdid

807
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:53,199
it with acid and mushrooms and stuff.

808
00:48:53,519 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think you're right about that. It's very possible,

809
00:48:56,639 --> 00:49:01,639
and it does it does read like somebody maybe experimenting

810
00:49:01,719 --> 00:49:06,639
with LSD or something. But I mean the sequel was

811
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,559
just way weirder and different than I expected. It's much

812
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:13,719
The sequel is much more like a courtly intrigue espionage

813
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,119
novel than it is any kind of action story. So

814
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:20,119
Dune is more is like action battles gigantic scope.

815
00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 3: Uh.

816
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,559
Speaker 4: The second novel is not like that at all. It's

817
00:49:22,639 --> 00:49:27,239
like a weird courtly espionage assassination thing. They create this

818
00:49:29,679 --> 00:49:33,800
this this this weird guy who's supposed to be Duncan reborn.

819
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:36,559
Speaker 3: They have the ability somehow Duncan who wasn't was that

820
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:38,079
the freaking what's his name?

821
00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:42,880
Speaker 4: Duncan's the Jason Momoa character that's Paul's great best friend,

822
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:46,960
the warrior guy at the beginning who gets killed. So

823
00:49:47,119 --> 00:49:51,480
the the court of Christopher Walkin and the Reverend Mother,

824
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,239
they come up with a plot where they wrote Eraline

825
00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,800
in to create this restore. They have the ability to

826
00:49:59,239 --> 00:50:01,280
it's not a but they have the ability to, like

827
00:50:02,159 --> 00:50:05,000
it's kind of sort of cloning but not exactly like.

828
00:50:05,119 --> 00:50:07,039
They bring back a kind of a husk of a

829
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:10,760
person who isn't the person but has some of the

830
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,239
genetic memories of the person, and they do this as

831
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,079
a kind of trick to ultimately trick Paul to bring

832
00:50:17,199 --> 00:50:19,199
Duncan back, but Paul actually knows what they're doing, so

833
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,519
it doesn't really work, but he almost kills the twins

834
00:50:22,599 --> 00:50:25,920
at the end. But so long story Shore is just

835
00:50:27,159 --> 00:50:30,880
what I like again is that you've got terraforming, you've

836
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:34,079
got mk ultra elements. In the first one, Nick and

837
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,800
they do what they call imperial conditioning to make sure

838
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:38,800
that people are mind control so that they don't and

839
00:50:38,960 --> 00:50:41,800
can't ever turn on one of the royal houses.

840
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,760
Speaker 3: So wow, So they and they call it imperial conditioning

841
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,440
is the term. I wish they'd included that term in

842
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,880
the films because you see some of this The David Lynch,

843
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,039
I gotta I gotta watch the David.

844
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:54,719
Speaker 4: There's a lot of elements where the David Lynch is

845
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:59,159
actually close for the books. But the Doctor Yui, the Trader.

846
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:02,199
One of the reasons that they trust Doctor You is

847
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:04,280
that he's supposed to have the imperial conditioning, So he

848
00:51:04,320 --> 00:51:07,119
has the mark on his third eye, which is supposed

849
00:51:07,119 --> 00:51:10,719
to signify that he's safe and that he won't betray

850
00:51:11,519 --> 00:51:12,599
the house.

851
00:51:12,519 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 3: A total mind controlled slave at that point.

852
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 4: Right exactly. But here's the thing is that if he's

853
00:51:17,880 --> 00:51:20,639
if it's the Imperial conditioning that. Then it's still not

854
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,639
going to be sufficient because the Empire is conspiring against

855
00:51:23,679 --> 00:51:26,760
House with Trades because it's it's Christopher Walking and the

856
00:51:26,840 --> 00:51:30,920
Baron who want Paul and Dukelido dead. So you've got

857
00:51:31,199 --> 00:51:35,079
terraforming in the novels, which is odd because geoengineering and

858
00:51:35,199 --> 00:51:38,880
terraforming are in Dune. I mean, who knew about geo

859
00:51:38,960 --> 00:51:40,039
engineering and terraforming?

860
00:51:40,559 --> 00:51:42,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, this, I mean a lot of these topics seem

861
00:51:42,559 --> 00:51:45,320
like these are fringe topics at the time being talked to.

862
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:48,039
I mean, these are topics that were being discussed in

863
00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:51,440
think tanks right now. If Herbert, if Frank Herbert, and

864
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,239
I've heard he was, he was a big Nixon guy.

865
00:51:53,519 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 4: And if he was giving a geop speech writer.

866
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was a goop speech writer. So he's for

867
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,840
sure going to a lot of these RAND corporation meetings.

868
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,039
You know, he's got to be in these types of circles.

869
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 4: It would seem likely, and my suspicion would be that, yeah,

870
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,079
he's hearing this stuff talked about, Like, guys, in fifty years,

871
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:12,159
we're gonna be geoengineering, We're gonna try to terraform by

872
00:52:12,199 --> 00:52:14,280
the your twenty twenties's probably hearing these kind of things,

873
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:16,039
like you're saying rand meetings or something.

874
00:52:16,159 --> 00:52:17,920
Speaker 3: For sure, and then this type of stuff was in

875
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,599
Like Asimov was talking about some of these topics too,

876
00:52:20,639 --> 00:52:24,559
So the these type of topics they were around, But

877
00:52:24,679 --> 00:52:26,599
it's interesting that he included them and in the film.

878
00:52:26,639 --> 00:52:29,760
I wish they had some more about uh. It sounds

879
00:52:29,760 --> 00:52:31,480
like in the books it was a bigger part of

880
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:34,039
the plot is the terraforming, because they do hint at

881
00:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,039
this when they talk about how they're saving all the water, uh,

882
00:52:37,400 --> 00:52:42,599
with the waters on Oracus, the Fremen will extract the

883
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:46,239
water juice from the bodies of their dead and they'll

884
00:52:46,280 --> 00:52:48,679
put them in these big pools that are kind of underground,

885
00:52:49,119 --> 00:52:55,280
these large ponds and they've got almost you know, lakes. Yeah,

886
00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:58,000
so they're they're saving this up apparently to try to

887
00:52:58,079 --> 00:53:00,440
terraform it and make it into their green pair paradise,

888
00:53:00,960 --> 00:53:04,119
which is also prophesied in their prophecies that are given

889
00:53:04,159 --> 00:53:08,599
to them through the Benjesred, which those prophecies are leveraged

890
00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:12,159
in order to get them to become geopolitical pawns, which

891
00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:16,320
is this is you know, I titled this in order

892
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:21,079
to reference that concept, that concept of religious engineering, of

893
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,400
a cult warview, a worldview warfare, and of parapolitics with

894
00:53:26,440 --> 00:53:29,400
I think Dune really does brilliantly touch on some of

895
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,000
these some of these subjects and show how important they

896
00:53:32,039 --> 00:53:34,760
are in a real world setting. And I'd like to

897
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,239
ask you a little bit. I mean, I was just

898
00:53:36,320 --> 00:53:39,719
reading through I finally started getting into Whitney Webb's book

899
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:44,280
One Nation Under Blackmail. You mentioned the Spice being almost

900
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:47,320
like space heroin. Well, the you know, the heroin trade

901
00:53:48,159 --> 00:53:52,760
really being crucial to twentieth century geopolitics. Frank Herbert obviously

902
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:55,559
pointing that out. You know, the concept of the Golden

903
00:53:55,679 --> 00:53:59,239
Triangle has talked about here in the first chapter. I mean,

904
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:01,320
going all the way back to like the Sassoon family,

905
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:08,679
who were a family out of England. But you know,

906
00:54:08,719 --> 00:54:11,440
the Sassoon family was a Jewish family out of England

907
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,159
who famously got involved in the opium trade and actually

908
00:54:17,199 --> 00:54:20,920
helped to bring about the opium Wars. You know, they're

909
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,239
trying to think the opium wars are absolutely fascinating and

910
00:54:25,519 --> 00:54:28,760
the way that the opium Wars played out are very

911
00:54:28,840 --> 00:54:31,639
reflective over how things have happened in the twentieth century

912
00:54:31,679 --> 00:54:33,760
as well. So we're talking about the mid nineteenth century.

913
00:54:34,519 --> 00:54:41,159
The British in China engaged in economic warfare as well

914
00:54:41,159 --> 00:54:44,239
as worldview warfare and the use of drugs and the

915
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:49,679
drug trade to demoralize people, to bring about revolutionary fervor,

916
00:54:49,920 --> 00:54:52,840
to weaken a culture in order to become kind of

917
00:54:53,199 --> 00:54:58,239
a basically vassal state in this you know, neoliberal so

918
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:00,719
called free market Autumn.

919
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:04,679
Speaker 4: Richies India Company was the most powerful corporation in the

920
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,039
history of the world. In fact, there's not even even

921
00:55:07,079 --> 00:55:10,199
Apple or anything today, it doesn't compare to what was

922
00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:12,800
coming in on a daily basis to the East British

923
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:14,239
US India Company in their heyday.

924
00:55:14,920 --> 00:55:17,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's absolutely staggering. You've also got the history of

925
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:20,480
like the Hudson's Bay Company leading up to the rise

926
00:55:20,519 --> 00:55:23,239
of the Bronfman family, which is referenced here and there

927
00:55:23,320 --> 00:55:25,920
in her Underworld chapter. So could you want to talk

928
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:27,000
a little bit about it. I know you did a

929
00:55:27,039 --> 00:55:29,840
stream on this recently, and I think it's kind of

930
00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:32,920
fresh in your mind. A lot of this history of espionage,

931
00:55:33,039 --> 00:55:37,320
history of worldview warfare, even religious engineering, especially as it

932
00:55:37,719 --> 00:55:43,159
relates to geopolitics around like the World War two era,

933
00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,960
post World War two, the OSS, the creation of the CIA,

934
00:55:47,039 --> 00:55:51,400
because Herbert's book and the way that the Benjesrat order

935
00:55:52,239 --> 00:55:55,920
works with sexual blackmail and all this really ties into

936
00:55:56,119 --> 00:55:56,880
that history.

937
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:00,320
Speaker 4: Yeah. The book I did just read and talk about

938
00:56:00,599 --> 00:56:05,360
was Michael Grazziano's academic his book Airing into the Wilderness Religion,

939
00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:07,639
the History of the CIA, And of course this goes

940
00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:11,800
very well with Paul Williams's Gladiol book, Daniel Ganster's thesis

941
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:18,519
the NATO Gladio NATO's Secret Armies is what it's called.

942
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,599
And then it goes well with the wim Off book

943
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:27,440
Time Life Magazine in the CIA's doctrinal warfare program about

944
00:56:27,800 --> 00:56:30,280
John Courtney Murray, the famous Jesuit. Yeah, I think this

945
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:35,320
is it's an overlooked but very obvious when you start

946
00:56:35,400 --> 00:56:39,440
to think about a relationship between the state and the church. Obviously,

947
00:56:39,519 --> 00:56:42,639
the state has always wanted it to have some element

948
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:45,559
of control over the church, to make sure that it's

949
00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:48,280
in line with the designs of the state. Sometimes there's

950
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:50,880
there's a harmony in a symphonia there, but other times

951
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:54,320
there's a split, and we have for example, Aryan emperors

952
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,199
who want to enforce arianism or iconic class emperors who

953
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,079
want to enforce iconic clasm, and so the Church of

954
00:57:00,159 --> 00:57:03,320
State butt heads. But not as many people know about

955
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,960
the secret sort of under the table relationship where a

956
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:10,800
lot of times clergy missionaries can be recruited to do

957
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:14,360
spy work, espionage work. You mentioned a few streams back

958
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,199
that I will be done book where we have the

959
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,639
Rockefellers having a direct interest in utilizing missionaries for the

960
00:57:21,679 --> 00:57:25,079
promotion of their oil interests and their economics. There were

961
00:57:25,079 --> 00:57:26,840
a lot of actizations. By the way, the British East

962
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:30,920
India Company was also utilizing missionaries. In fact, I bought

963
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,079
a book on the history of the British US India Company.

964
00:57:34,400 --> 00:57:39,679
I even found a really obscure British MP's investigation into

965
00:57:39,719 --> 00:57:41,719
the British US India Company from like the year nineteen

966
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:43,719
hundred something crazy it's austiny.

967
00:57:43,719 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 3: Well, you had also consider, you know how the whole

968
00:57:46,119 --> 00:57:49,159
British pop thing and the Beatles and all this helped

969
00:57:49,199 --> 00:57:53,679
to propel Eastern mysticism into the forefront of Western culture,

970
00:57:54,039 --> 00:57:57,159
including yoga and all this. A lot of that came

971
00:57:57,199 --> 00:58:00,599
out of the called the British invasion. You know, all

972
00:58:00,679 --> 00:58:04,159
this very popular British rock music, and a lot of

973
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:08,880
like the most experimental rock came out of out of Britain,

974
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:12,440
right with the whole the Canterbury scene, with like the

975
00:58:12,519 --> 00:58:14,559
pro all these prog bands who are tripping on a

976
00:58:14,599 --> 00:58:17,719
bunch of drugs and putting out this very strange almost

977
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,440
Eastern mysticism inspired but also classical musically and music inspired

978
00:58:23,559 --> 00:58:28,119
theatrical music like the early Genesis stuff. So there was

979
00:58:28,159 --> 00:58:32,039
all this experimental mashing of world religions into kind of

980
00:58:32,079 --> 00:58:36,480
this syncretistic culture that got pushed at the same time

981
00:58:36,519 --> 00:58:39,800
as psychedelics are being pushed through of course we know.

982
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 4: And that's largely you could point back to Blovatski and

983
00:58:43,519 --> 00:58:46,280
the Fabians who were pioneering a lot of that, and

984
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,559
they were doing that at the best of Lord Milner,

985
00:58:48,719 --> 00:58:52,360
Lord Rothschild, Cecil Rhodes, the Milliner circles are really the

986
00:58:52,519 --> 00:58:56,480
brainchild and the power behind the Fabians, and they're the

987
00:58:56,559 --> 00:58:59,960
predecessors to the sixties counterculture. They had a mini sexual

988
00:59:00,119 --> 00:59:02,519
revolution in the eighteen nineties, in the nineteen twenties and

989
00:59:02,599 --> 00:59:05,800
thirties that were that was Fabian inspired, and then it

990
00:59:05,920 --> 00:59:09,199
really goes wild in the nineteen sixties. So yeah, you're

991
00:59:09,199 --> 00:59:11,760
absolutely right that that's the same ties into a lot

992
00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,119
of the same stuff. It's just I was reminded of

993
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:18,639
the British East India Company's history, where China was actually

994
00:59:18,920 --> 00:59:25,360
accusing the British of using missionaries to be dope dope smugglers.

995
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,119
I don't know whether that was the case, but at

996
00:59:28,199 --> 00:59:30,599
least in the China. In the Chinese mind, one of

997
00:59:30,639 --> 00:59:32,559
the reasons they did that they didn't like the British

998
00:59:32,719 --> 00:59:36,079
was that they thought that missionaries were being used to

999
00:59:37,079 --> 00:59:40,119
do spy work or to as secretly sell dope.

1000
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:42,440
Speaker 3: Well, that that's fascinating. I mean that those types of

1001
00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:45,199
allegations are all throughout the twentieth century as well with

1002
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:46,519
the Rockefeller Foundation.

1003
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:49,559
Speaker 4: And then I will be done exactly.

1004
00:59:51,719 --> 00:59:54,119
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's not worth reading every page of

1005
00:59:54,159 --> 00:59:57,719
it because it's it's a massive tome. I think it's

1006
00:59:57,760 --> 01:00:00,760
like eight hundred pages or something. But yeah, Gerald Colby

1007
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,360
and Charlotte Dennetz that I will be done. They talk

1008
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,159
a lot about how this group's like si L and

1009
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:13,360
some of these CIA connected missionary groups Protestant groups used

1010
01:00:14,400 --> 01:00:17,760
English translations of the Bible and trying to get tribes

1011
01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,199
to learn English in order to get them into predatory

1012
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:26,400
situations and signing contracts for exploitation of resources, and essentially

1013
01:00:26,559 --> 01:00:30,440
just using religion and especially language and the English language

1014
01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:33,440
in order to get the in order to get this done.

1015
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:37,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, and this is this is why Mormon missionaries famously

1016
01:00:37,119 --> 01:00:40,000
have been recruited by the CIA. You know, there's a

1017
01:00:40,039 --> 01:00:42,960
close connection between Mormonism and the CIA, as well as

1018
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,519
a lot of other Protestant to missionaries and as well

1019
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:49,440
Cathlican Orthodox have also been recruited by the OSS and

1020
01:00:49,559 --> 01:00:50,079
CIA too.

1021
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:53,639
Speaker 3: So out of the OSS and the CIA try to

1022
01:00:53,719 --> 01:00:55,960
use the fan ard, you know. I mean, that's famously

1023
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,280
in the twentieth century, the Constantinople trying to be a

1024
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,960
try just as a tool for geopolitical intrigue. Also, even

1025
01:01:04,199 --> 01:01:07,119
you know, these Protestant groups, like a lot of Mennonite

1026
01:01:07,159 --> 01:01:11,920
groups get involved in strange stuff these days too. You know,

1027
01:01:11,920 --> 01:01:14,000
I've heard a lot of stuff about Mennonite groups being

1028
01:01:14,039 --> 01:01:18,000
involved in smuggling networks throughout Mexico and interfacing with cartel

1029
01:01:18,760 --> 01:01:21,800
UH smuggling operations and whatnot in Mexico because they have

1030
01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:22,199
a lot of.

1031
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 4: I've suspected that I haven't seen in the past. I've

1032
01:01:27,039 --> 01:01:29,360
never found like a heart. I haven't spent a lot

1033
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,800
of time going down that rabbit hole. But yeah, I've

1034
01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:34,440
always thought that. I mean, if you grow up in Tennessee,

1035
01:01:34,559 --> 01:01:37,440
for example, there's a lot of men night Nomas that

1036
01:01:37,519 --> 01:01:40,480
are still around, and there's always we've always heard stories

1037
01:01:40,559 --> 01:01:43,000
that they do all the same kind of criminal activities

1038
01:01:43,039 --> 01:01:45,719
as any other group. So I'm not surprised that that

1039
01:01:45,920 --> 01:01:48,960
makes sense. But yeah, to bring it back to kind of,

1040
01:01:49,079 --> 01:01:51,000
you know, the world of done, I thought it was

1041
01:01:51,119 --> 01:01:55,480
very pression, very maybe not pression, but it was very

1042
01:01:56,239 --> 01:01:58,519
It was a very insightful move to have the Benny

1043
01:01:58,599 --> 01:02:01,320
jes Er It's be such a power or full force

1044
01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:05,119
in the world of religion that are pretty clearly espionage.

1045
01:02:05,159 --> 01:02:07,679
And I noticed I did look up some academic literary

1046
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:09,960
some other people had written on how the Benny Jesuits

1047
01:02:10,000 --> 01:02:12,159
are basically kind of like the CIA or some sort

1048
01:02:12,199 --> 01:02:15,920
of spy agency. And so but it's odd that they're

1049
01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:19,639
all women, I'm not. I mean, you could argue that

1050
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,639
the the they have these face shifters and in doing

1051
01:02:23,719 --> 01:02:26,199
Messiah that will come, by the way, that's also the

1052
01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:29,320
George Martin Borrow's that the piece the people that can

1053
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:31,800
shift their face, the nobodies or whatever they're called, that's

1054
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:38,079
from Dune too, do Messiah. They they might be spies,

1055
01:02:38,079 --> 01:02:39,679
I guess you could say from a male set, but

1056
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,360
it's just odd that the spies are typically in Dune women.

1057
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:48,880
Speaker 3: It's it is interesting and some people will say, well,

1058
01:02:48,920 --> 01:02:51,360
he was a he's a huge misogynist. You know, women

1059
01:02:51,480 --> 01:02:53,440
were manipulative in Dune.

1060
01:02:53,480 --> 01:02:53,880
Speaker 4: You see.

1061
01:02:53,920 --> 01:02:55,639
Speaker 3: Even there was some tweet and trying to find this

1062
01:02:55,719 --> 01:02:59,639
funny tweet from if you just searched like Dune the

1063
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:05,440
on Twitter, there's some funny interactions happening, you know between

1064
01:03:05,639 --> 01:03:08,239
like more left leaning people and right leaning people. This

1065
01:03:08,360 --> 01:03:11,760
person is like soyjacking about doing is fat phobic?

1066
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:13,800
Speaker 4: Exactly.

1067
01:03:14,360 --> 01:03:14,559
Speaker 1: Well.

1068
01:03:14,960 --> 01:03:18,079
Speaker 4: The part of the reason, so another reason why we

1069
01:03:18,119 --> 01:03:21,239
would speculate that Herbert really new insides of what the

1070
01:03:21,320 --> 01:03:24,480
system was up to and what the real philosophy of

1071
01:03:24,480 --> 01:03:27,239
the elites is is that a big part of the

1072
01:03:27,280 --> 01:03:30,559
Dune world is eugenics, and so the veny jes As Sisterhood,

1073
01:03:31,079 --> 01:03:35,400
they're not just seeding stories, they're actually manipulating bloodlines for

1074
01:03:36,719 --> 01:03:40,519
hundreds of years to try to produce the Ubermtge and

1075
01:03:40,960 --> 01:03:44,159
their idea is that we're not so much worried about

1076
01:03:44,199 --> 01:03:46,559
emperors and barons and people that come and go. If

1077
01:03:46,599 --> 01:03:50,400
we can control this super being and their ideas they can't,

1078
01:03:50,400 --> 01:03:52,559
they're going to be able to control the super being.

1079
01:03:53,239 --> 01:03:55,679
Then they'll be the ultimate power behind the throne in

1080
01:03:55,760 --> 01:03:58,800
the universe. That's why the Reverend morother says, you don't understand,

1081
01:03:58,880 --> 01:04:01,880
like the quizats Hoderak is the greatest power the universe

1082
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:04,320
has ever seen. We want to control that. But I

1083
01:04:04,360 --> 01:04:06,360
thought you might find this interesting. I read it when

1084
01:04:06,360 --> 01:04:08,599
I did my so this is this is just a

1085
01:04:08,639 --> 01:04:11,519
little section in Do Messiah that you'll you'll find relevant

1086
01:04:11,519 --> 01:04:14,639
to what you're talking about. And in every chapter of Doune,

1087
01:04:15,079 --> 01:04:18,760
they're usually citing some weird book in the universe of Doune,

1088
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:23,039
like they're citing Pristas, Airlines Diaries or something. This is

1089
01:04:23,079 --> 01:04:25,360
from the book called the Orgy. As a tool of

1090
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:29,360
state craft, Yeah says the most dangerous game in the

1091
01:04:29,440 --> 01:04:33,199
universe is to govern from an oracular base. We do

1092
01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:35,880
not consider ourselves wise enough and brave enough to play

1093
01:04:35,920 --> 01:04:39,440
that game. The measure detailed here for the regulation in

1094
01:04:39,519 --> 01:04:42,480
lesser matters are as near as we dare venture to

1095
01:04:42,559 --> 01:04:45,400
the brink of government. For our purposes. We borrow the

1096
01:04:45,440 --> 01:04:49,320
definition from the Vinny Jesuits. We consider the various worlds

1097
01:04:49,880 --> 01:04:54,039
of the universe as gene pools, sources of teachings and

1098
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:58,239
of teachers, sources of what is possible. Our goal is

1099
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:01,639
not to rule, but the into these gene pools, to

1100
01:05:01,840 --> 01:05:04,960
learn and to free ourselves from all restraints imposed by

1101
01:05:05,000 --> 01:05:11,199
the dependency of government. So that's something that the Steersman's Guild,

1102
01:05:11,199 --> 01:05:13,400
which would be the Spacing Guild. That's one of their

1103
01:05:13,519 --> 01:05:16,039
books and they're at the book is just titled Orgy

1104
01:05:16,119 --> 01:05:19,559
as a tool of take wraps. So the whole all

1105
01:05:19,639 --> 01:05:23,280
of it's full of like you know, Herbert having knowledge

1106
01:05:23,320 --> 01:05:24,559
of like Epstein type.

1107
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,719
Speaker 3: Stuff, right, yeah, Yeah, that's that's fascinating, and you know

1108
01:05:27,800 --> 01:05:31,960
that's obviously it's a PG thirteen movie. Thankfully, there's no

1109
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,039
there's no like crazy gratuitous sex scenes or anything in it,

1110
01:05:35,079 --> 01:05:37,039
which I did appreciate about Dune. It's like it's not

1111
01:05:37,639 --> 01:05:40,480
you know, it's not super raunchy. The violence is it

1112
01:05:40,719 --> 01:05:44,360
was well done in both of the films, a tasteful,

1113
01:05:44,440 --> 01:05:49,599
tasteful amount of violence, but there is the the Benjester woman.

1114
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:55,320
She seduces Fade what's his name, Fade Rotha Roth Fade

1115
01:05:55,400 --> 01:06:01,760
Rothschild Fade Fade Rotha. She seduces him and then I

1116
01:06:01,840 --> 01:06:03,519
think the dialogue could have been improved a little bit.

1117
01:06:03,559 --> 01:06:07,320
Afterwards she goes back to her Benagesterrit's and says, well,

1118
01:06:07,440 --> 01:06:12,000
he can be controlled through sexuality, through humiliation, and through

1119
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:16,079
uh you know, he power. So you know, I mean

1120
01:06:16,119 --> 01:06:17,519
that you only have so much time in the film

1121
01:06:17,559 --> 01:06:19,639
to flesh this stuff out. But it wasn't it wasn't

1122
01:06:19,679 --> 01:06:21,840
that bad. It was well done. The way they showed it,

1123
01:06:21,920 --> 01:06:26,679
the way that they they hinted at the wider, broader

1124
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:30,639
scope of why it's women that are the benagesterate is

1125
01:06:30,719 --> 01:06:33,320
because these men who are in power are often have

1126
01:06:33,440 --> 01:06:37,719
a weakness for women. So yeah, which is something absolutely

1127
01:06:37,840 --> 01:06:39,920
really when we when.

1128
01:06:39,840 --> 01:06:42,920
Speaker 4: We speak of like the traditional word witch, it meant

1129
01:06:43,800 --> 01:06:46,480
a weird woman w y r D who was a

1130
01:06:46,719 --> 01:06:49,960
cunning woman. Right. So the idea is that the ultimate

1131
01:06:50,079 --> 01:06:53,039
witch is the is the handler, because it's the most

1132
01:06:53,119 --> 01:06:56,360
cunning person. It's the person that you'll you'll never outsmart

1133
01:06:56,480 --> 01:06:59,360
in this game of you know, intrigue. And so the

1134
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,960
Reverend Mother is really sort of the intended to be

1135
01:07:02,119 --> 01:07:04,840
that we think the power behind the throne. And that's

1136
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,679
why it's not a feminist story, because Paul ends up

1137
01:07:08,719 --> 01:07:11,280
being the one who goes where the women can't go.

1138
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,760
The women can't go in the ritual where Paul goes,

1139
01:07:16,199 --> 01:07:18,760
and that's why when he comes back, they fear him.

1140
01:07:19,519 --> 01:07:21,519
And when she tries to use the voice on Paul

1141
01:07:21,519 --> 01:07:24,280
at the end, he says silence and she jumps back right,

1142
01:07:25,079 --> 01:07:27,760
it's very reminiscent of like when Christ says I am

1143
01:07:27,920 --> 01:07:29,320
and the soldiers fall back.

1144
01:07:31,079 --> 01:07:33,119
Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting too, I mean, because they spent thousands

1145
01:07:33,159 --> 01:07:36,320
of years on their little eugenics project trying to bring

1146
01:07:36,360 --> 01:07:37,280
about what do they call it, the.

1147
01:07:37,440 --> 01:07:39,880
Speaker 4: Quiz atch hacker universe is super being.

1148
01:07:39,800 --> 01:07:43,000
Speaker 3: The q queiss Hadarak. So they're trying to create their

1149
01:07:43,079 --> 01:07:46,039
uber mensch who is going to you know, see perfectly

1150
01:07:46,159 --> 01:07:51,079
in past, present, and future and be able to guide

1151
01:07:51,320 --> 01:07:54,599
the known universe basically but under their control. So they

1152
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:57,760
they want to be the puppet masters behind him. And

1153
01:07:58,280 --> 01:08:00,920
uh so they spend how it was like thousand years

1154
01:08:01,000 --> 01:08:04,519
with this breeding program to bring about the perfect candidate

1155
01:08:04,599 --> 01:08:08,119
for this, but he ends up not being under their control,

1156
01:08:08,360 --> 01:08:11,519
so they lose control of him ultimately, And so there

1157
01:08:11,639 --> 01:08:15,079
is this, you know, there's the cynicism about religion, there's

1158
01:08:15,079 --> 01:08:19,479
the cynicism that Frank Herbert seemed to have. But then

1159
01:08:19,520 --> 01:08:24,520
there also is seemingly a real aspect of the supernatural

1160
01:08:24,880 --> 01:08:27,800
at play in the universe, which I think is handled

1161
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,600
well tastefully without being corny. There really is. There seems

1162
01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:35,760
to be something there, at least in the way that

1163
01:08:35,840 --> 01:08:39,000
the films portrayed it, right, with certain lines of dialogue

1164
01:08:39,079 --> 01:08:42,239
hinting at well, maybe he is the lisan al Gayib

1165
01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:47,399
and maybe the Benjesrit are not in total control, because

1166
01:08:47,720 --> 01:08:51,159
you've got Lady Jessica seeming to clash a little bit

1167
01:08:51,199 --> 01:08:54,239
with the other reverend mother and she says something to

1168
01:08:54,359 --> 01:08:56,199
the other reverend mother of like, well you pick the

1169
01:08:56,239 --> 01:08:58,880
wrong side, and she mocks her. She says, well, you

1170
01:08:58,920 --> 01:09:00,960
should have known all this time, you should have known

1171
01:09:01,039 --> 01:09:04,119
that there are no sides, right, there are no sides here.

1172
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:09,359
But that being said, they are. Jessica seems to be

1173
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:12,520
pushing back a little bit and clashing with what the

1174
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,800
Menagesits really want. The Benajests try to get rid of

1175
01:09:16,279 --> 01:09:19,199
the a Tredes' bloodline. They try to kill them all

1176
01:09:19,279 --> 01:09:23,039
off on hark On what's it called an aracus? So

1177
01:09:24,239 --> 01:09:26,880
you know there would you say that there is an

1178
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,079
aspect of that in the books where there might be

1179
01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:33,960
something there or is it you're supposed to think at

1180
01:09:33,960 --> 01:09:35,880
the end of the books? No, this is all just

1181
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:39,359
hogwash invented by some witches to control people and control

1182
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:39,920
their minds.

1183
01:09:42,600 --> 01:09:45,359
Speaker 4: I'm guessing. And again because I don't know where the

1184
01:09:45,920 --> 01:09:48,199
next novels will go in terms of theism.

1185
01:09:48,399 --> 01:09:50,880
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, having read the first two novels, what would

1186
01:09:50,880 --> 01:09:51,960
you say, I'm just.

1187
01:09:52,039 --> 01:09:54,439
Speaker 4: Going I'm thinking that. But I have read quite a

1188
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:59,680
bit on like uh, literary theory, you know, theories and

1189
01:09:59,840 --> 01:10:01,840
now aalysis of the whole series, so I kind of

1190
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:04,800
know where the series goes, but in a general sense,

1191
01:10:04,960 --> 01:10:10,079
not the details. I think maybe there is this idea,

1192
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:13,600
so it's a it's a it's a universe where there's evolution,

1193
01:10:14,399 --> 01:10:17,800
there's genetic manipulation, there's the idea of the possibility of

1194
01:10:18,159 --> 01:10:25,000
evolving and mutating to perhaps godlike powers. So it's not

1195
01:10:25,560 --> 01:10:28,600
I would hesitate to say at this stage in the

1196
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:32,600
first two it's not supernatural so far, except that we

1197
01:10:32,720 --> 01:10:37,359
might have an irony where the uh, the prophecies actually

1198
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:41,840
sort of manifest, so we don't get the idea that

1199
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:45,079
it's supernatural. In the first two books, we get the

1200
01:10:45,159 --> 01:10:48,079
idea that there's these it's almost like there's there's very

1201
01:10:48,640 --> 01:10:51,560
there's powers that can be tapped into, but they don't

1202
01:10:51,560 --> 01:10:54,640
seem to be supernatural. They seem to be latent natural

1203
01:10:54,840 --> 01:11:00,319
powers that allow us to maybe ascend evolutionarily to some

1204
01:11:00,479 --> 01:11:02,000
sort of quasi divine status.

1205
01:11:02,159 --> 01:11:05,520
Speaker 3: Okay, So then the Benajester they take what's natural, they

1206
01:11:05,640 --> 01:11:10,960
spin a supernatural veil around the front of it, present

1207
01:11:11,039 --> 01:11:13,039
it to the you know, the people.

1208
01:11:13,159 --> 01:11:16,039
Speaker 4: Right, But as I understand, as the stories progress, there

1209
01:11:16,159 --> 01:11:18,479
is towards the end of the of all six stories

1210
01:11:18,560 --> 01:11:23,800
this there's something about a confrontation with the beyond. It

1211
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,159
gets really crazy, like the novels get really wild. So

1212
01:11:27,279 --> 01:11:29,600
he takes it in the direction of their possibly being

1213
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:36,439
some entity beyond. What that is, it's unclear. He may

1214
01:11:36,520 --> 01:11:38,880
not even explain it in the in the in the novels,

1215
01:11:39,159 --> 01:11:41,279
the don Nerds in the chat can probably explain it

1216
01:11:41,359 --> 01:11:44,560
better than me. But uh, I don't think it goes

1217
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:47,680
into the themen of supernatural, except perhaps towards the end,

1218
01:11:48,720 --> 01:11:51,439
but we do get weirder and weirder things happening. So

1219
01:11:53,119 --> 01:11:54,279
maybe by doing six.

1220
01:11:55,279 --> 01:11:57,960
Speaker 3: But I'd say from what I gleaned from the two films,

1221
01:11:59,079 --> 01:12:02,600
it seems like they're is something, you know, there is

1222
01:12:03,000 --> 01:12:07,279
a real presence of something strange, possibly supernatural going on.

1223
01:12:07,479 --> 01:12:12,560
Speaker 4: Well, for example, the the worms, they're called shai Elude.

1224
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,000
They see the freemen seem to take the worms as

1225
01:12:15,159 --> 01:12:19,079
like a manifestation of the power of God, and.

1226
01:12:19,359 --> 01:12:21,600
Speaker 3: With the worms seeming to respect Paul. Is that in

1227
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:23,479
the first one, the scene where the worm comes and

1228
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:26,640
it's like it gleans Paul and there is this moment

1229
01:12:26,800 --> 01:12:30,199
where he seems to be the worms even seem to

1230
01:12:30,279 --> 01:12:31,359
recognize Paul.

1231
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:35,279
Speaker 4: Well, that's because this is letting you know that they're

1232
01:12:35,319 --> 01:12:38,800
going to Paul's descendant will become a worm. That's how

1233
01:12:38,840 --> 01:12:42,000
crazy this is. I mean, this it's just crazy, dude.

1234
01:12:42,039 --> 01:12:44,359
Like the novel, I can't even when you read it

1235
01:12:44,680 --> 01:12:46,840
like it's it's even crazier.

1236
01:12:46,479 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 3: Because it freaking zone.

1237
01:12:49,439 --> 01:12:54,600
Speaker 4: Her crazy directions. I mean, you're wondering, like, was Frank

1238
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,960
Herbert just like a super weird spurg of the nineteen sixties.

1239
01:12:58,039 --> 01:13:01,199
He seems like a total spurg because it's it's also

1240
01:13:01,399 --> 01:13:03,000
like Lord of the Rings in that you know, you know,

1241
01:13:03,159 --> 01:13:05,279
Tolkien was such a Spurg that he creates his own

1242
01:13:05,359 --> 01:13:08,960
language and like like there's a language of Mortor and

1243
01:13:09,000 --> 01:13:10,880
he like he makes a real language. There's like he

1244
01:13:10,960 --> 01:13:14,199
makes a real language of l Like who makes elf languages? Spurg?

1245
01:13:15,079 --> 01:13:18,000
I mean, and and he does the same thing with like, oh,

1246
01:13:18,159 --> 01:13:21,159
the people of you know, ben a Talelax, they speak

1247
01:13:21,239 --> 01:13:23,279
this language and it's it's Luke Luke's look, you know,

1248
01:13:23,319 --> 01:13:25,399
it's like there's a lot of x's and z's and

1249
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,720
I mean, it's just just total spurg stuff. And there's

1250
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:31,479
some weird sex stuff that happens later on in the

1251
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:32,600
later novels.

1252
01:13:32,840 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 3: Does he get explicit with it or does he? Is

1253
01:13:34,960 --> 01:13:38,199
he tasteful? He seems like a weird man. He's strange.

1254
01:13:38,960 --> 01:13:42,199
Speaker 4: I don't know what to say about about where it goes,

1255
01:13:42,239 --> 01:13:46,159
but I just think that it's just totally not like

1256
01:13:46,279 --> 01:13:48,279
any other sci fi and it has all of these

1257
01:13:48,319 --> 01:13:51,359
weird elements that I mean, how many spy novels are

1258
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:53,880
sci fi? They're not very few. I mean again, I

1259
01:13:53,920 --> 01:13:56,640
don't read a lot of sci fi. But it's just not.

1260
01:13:57,159 --> 01:14:01,279
You don't see science fiction stories written this well and

1261
01:14:01,439 --> 01:14:07,439
dealing with such really profound topics ideas geopolitics, espionage, mind control,

1262
01:14:08,119 --> 01:14:09,760
the occult to a degree.

1263
01:14:09,880 --> 01:14:13,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, the ocult. The cult is a huge

1264
01:14:13,319 --> 01:14:17,159
aspect of the film. It's I mean, it's a big thematic.

1265
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:19,720
Speaker 4: I was he here's a good point on what you're saying.

1266
01:14:19,800 --> 01:14:24,680
So in Dune it does seem to border on supernatural.

1267
01:14:24,760 --> 01:14:28,840
And maybe in Herbert's mind, maybe he's agnostic, and so

1268
01:14:28,920 --> 01:14:30,880
he kind of has it open an open question.

1269
01:14:31,079 --> 01:14:33,399
Speaker 3: But like when it's just so fun to write it

1270
01:14:33,520 --> 01:14:35,880
that way, where he couldn't help himself with some of

1271
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:37,319
this stuff, where it's just well.

1272
01:14:38,000 --> 01:14:43,039
Speaker 4: When Paul undergoes this ritual, okay, he he sees he

1273
01:14:43,119 --> 01:14:45,800
talks about seeing the infinite, and he talks about like

1274
01:14:46,680 --> 01:14:49,359
seeing all the timelines, all.

1275
01:14:49,319 --> 01:14:52,720
Speaker 3: The possible timelines. I mean, this is a supernatural.

1276
01:14:53,960 --> 01:14:57,039
Speaker 4: Probably the closest to the supernatural and that I can think.

1277
01:14:57,119 --> 01:14:59,359
Speaker 3: But because he pegs it to it's not a you know,

1278
01:14:59,520 --> 01:15:02,000
like in in the Orthodox tradition, you gain you know,

1279
01:15:02,119 --> 01:15:05,319
knowledge is gained through you know, the cleansing of the noose,

1280
01:15:05,479 --> 01:15:07,800
right so that you can have communion with God it's

1281
01:15:07,880 --> 01:15:10,000
not you know, there's no shortcuts of you know, you

1282
01:15:10,199 --> 01:15:13,720
just take a milligram of acid then you're gonna But

1283
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:18,399
he he goes and he mega doses on the spice

1284
01:15:18,479 --> 01:15:23,359
for a long time, fries fries fries balls on freaking

1285
01:15:23,479 --> 01:15:26,560
space acid and gets all this insight, but can't really

1286
01:15:26,600 --> 01:15:30,840
control the visions. The visions are sometimes real. Sometimes he doesn't.

1287
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:32,840
He doesn't ought to interpret it. So he's getting all

1288
01:15:32,880 --> 01:15:37,279
these you know, insights that are not really insights sometimes

1289
01:15:37,960 --> 01:15:39,800
and then he drinks the what do they call it,

1290
01:15:39,840 --> 01:15:42,800
the water alife and ends up taking it to another

1291
01:15:42,920 --> 01:15:45,239
level where he's able to kind of whether they use

1292
01:15:45,239 --> 01:15:47,199
the word like prescience or something, he's able to kind

1293
01:15:47,239 --> 01:15:51,840
of prescient lead to be there and be present within

1294
01:15:51,960 --> 01:15:55,119
these visions of the past, present and future. But it's

1295
01:15:55,159 --> 01:16:01,439
an imminentized gnostic way of achieving. So he consumes the

1296
01:16:02,600 --> 01:16:04,600
he consumes the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil,

1297
01:16:05,079 --> 01:16:08,279
knows good and evil, becomes like God. So it's it's

1298
01:16:08,359 --> 01:16:15,640
kind of a Luciferian Promethean search for knowledge that Paul's

1299
01:16:15,720 --> 01:16:18,199
going through in a lot of ways.

1300
01:16:18,840 --> 01:16:22,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean again, the religion of the Fremen is

1301
01:16:22,800 --> 01:16:28,760
a mix of indigenous paganism. They retain a lot of

1302
01:16:28,760 --> 01:16:30,800
that paganism in some of the traditions. I mean, it's

1303
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,079
it's very elaborate where you have the Southern fundamentalists and

1304
01:16:34,159 --> 01:16:38,399
the northern you know, skeptics and that kind of mirrors

1305
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,079
like Judah and in the time when Israel's divided between

1306
01:16:42,119 --> 01:16:44,960
the ten northern tribes and they're apostate, and then you

1307
01:16:45,039 --> 01:16:47,319
have only the you know, Judah in the south where

1308
01:16:47,359 --> 01:16:50,159
the temple is as the Southern fundamentalists. So there's there's

1309
01:16:50,199 --> 01:16:54,359
parallels to like Israel and its history, and there's parallels

1310
01:16:54,399 --> 01:16:59,880
to you know, Mosaic and christ type themes where they

1311
01:17:00,079 --> 01:17:03,279
want to stamp out the bloodline, I mean, the the vinages,

1312
01:17:05,640 --> 01:17:07,920
the bloodline. Yeah, they want to stamp out the trades

1313
01:17:08,000 --> 01:17:10,000
because if you remember, she says, we can't control them,

1314
01:17:10,560 --> 01:17:14,239
they're getting too uppity. So we want to erase house

1315
01:17:14,279 --> 01:17:17,079
of trades, that whole bloodline can't be controlled. We're going

1316
01:17:17,159 --> 01:17:20,279
to try maybe fade Ralph or some other options here

1317
01:17:21,840 --> 01:17:24,560
is that's their mindset. So in that sense, there's parallel

1318
01:17:24,600 --> 01:17:27,560
to like Herod stamping out the you know, trying to

1319
01:17:27,600 --> 01:17:29,960
stamp out the bloodline fro tries to stamp out the

1320
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,680
Messianic bloodliness. A lot of things borrow from the Bible.

1321
01:17:32,960 --> 01:17:37,279
The desert springing to life, that's from Isaiah prophecies of

1322
01:17:37,279 --> 01:17:39,920
the Messianic era, right where Eden comes back to the desert.

1323
01:17:40,199 --> 01:17:44,119
So there's a there's a mix of indigenous paganism Islamic

1324
01:17:44,239 --> 01:17:47,359
elements with a lot of the terms of the Mahdi.

1325
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:48,680
Speaker 1: Right.

1326
01:17:48,800 --> 01:17:52,159
Speaker 4: So uh, and then you've also got Catholicism in their

1327
01:17:52,319 --> 01:17:59,119
Orange Catholic Bible. All that mixes into this bizarre stew.

1328
01:17:59,520 --> 01:18:01,359
Speaker 3: It's funny you don't mention the Orange I mean that

1329
01:18:01,399 --> 01:18:04,199
would it would sound so strange, the Orange Catholic Bible.

1330
01:18:04,279 --> 01:18:06,319
I mean, he kind of blew it with that name.

1331
01:18:06,720 --> 01:18:09,039
He could have had something a little bit different, but

1332
01:18:09,079 --> 01:18:10,760
you didn't. They didn't have anything about that in the film.

1333
01:18:12,000 --> 01:18:15,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's in the novel because the novel sort of

1334
01:18:15,399 --> 01:18:17,920
drops you in the midst of this universe that's had

1335
01:18:17,960 --> 01:18:21,439
this long history of you know, humans expanding into it.

1336
01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:24,039
It's the year ten thousands, right, ten thousand one one,

1337
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:28,920
So humans have colonized the universe, the known universe. They're

1338
01:18:28,920 --> 01:18:31,399
all over all the planets, and there's there's the return

1339
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:33,880
of nobility. As you said, there's been the Butler engine

1340
01:18:33,960 --> 01:18:35,159
had where AI's banned.

1341
01:18:35,439 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 3: Well, see they didn't say that in the film either.

1342
01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:39,239
They I wish they would have. They could have done

1343
01:18:39,239 --> 01:18:40,800
that in a few lines. They could have done that

1344
01:18:40,880 --> 01:18:43,880
in a conversation reference. How there is this but Larry

1345
01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,159
and g Hod Because you're kind of as a viewer,

1346
01:18:46,600 --> 01:18:48,159
you know, me coming in not having read any of

1347
01:18:48,159 --> 01:18:51,239
the books. You see how they're fighting and they have

1348
01:18:51,319 --> 01:18:53,680
these weird shield things. Why aren't they just why don't

1349
01:18:53,680 --> 01:18:54,520
you just shoot that guy?

1350
01:18:55,039 --> 01:18:55,159
Speaker 4: Right?

1351
01:18:55,199 --> 01:18:58,359
Speaker 3: You think it's stuff like this, And that's actually that's

1352
01:18:58,399 --> 01:19:02,159
actually answered in the but Larry and question because supposedly,

1353
01:19:02,199 --> 01:19:04,640
I guess the shields. I heard this. I watched the

1354
01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:08,640
like a review video, and apparently, and this sounds ridiculous,

1355
01:19:08,680 --> 01:19:11,800
This is kind of stupid. The shields. So Frank Herbert

1356
01:19:11,880 --> 01:19:14,920
had these magical shields that they wear, these tech shields

1357
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,159
that they wear, and it's like a plasma shield and

1358
01:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,359
if you shoot it with a laser gun, it's a

1359
01:19:21,640 --> 01:19:25,039
it makes an atomic explosion. So nobody can use that anymore.

1360
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:29,199
That that sounded absolutely ridiculous, But I guess as a

1361
01:19:29,399 --> 01:19:33,159
plot device it kind of works because the idea of chivalry,

1362
01:19:33,760 --> 01:19:35,760
the sword play knife.

1363
01:19:35,560 --> 01:19:39,159
Speaker 4: Exactly the way to reintroduce classic stuff, just like the

1364
01:19:39,279 --> 01:19:40,760
nobility is still there, right.

1365
01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:42,560
Speaker 3: So we got to do it like a medieval have

1366
01:19:42,640 --> 01:19:45,880
it kind of be like a medieval vibe to it,

1367
01:19:46,000 --> 01:19:49,279
which is it works visually, it's fantastic. I just wish

1368
01:19:49,279 --> 01:19:50,880
they'd explained that in the films.

1369
01:19:52,640 --> 01:19:56,079
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think that's why the slow baited. The phrases

1370
01:19:56,119 --> 01:19:59,039
the slow blade kind of trace the shields.

1371
01:19:58,600 --> 01:20:01,640
Speaker 3: Right, slow blade, he's the shield, Yeah, exactly.

1372
01:20:03,319 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, so the bullets that we have to like, you know,

1373
01:20:05,479 --> 01:20:08,840
engage in this hand combat and like you know, slowly

1374
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:11,760
put your knife in or you just have there's also

1375
01:20:11,880 --> 01:20:14,119
these you know, kind of ancient traditions of what they

1376
01:20:14,159 --> 01:20:18,439
call con lee, which is where you you offer to

1377
01:20:18,920 --> 01:20:24,039
settle vendettas in classic one to one sword fighter warfare.

1378
01:20:24,479 --> 01:20:28,439
So it's like a future that's science fiction and there's

1379
01:20:28,560 --> 01:20:32,199
spaceships and space travel and warp speeds or whatever, but

1380
01:20:32,479 --> 01:20:34,159
there's all of these medieval elements in that.

1381
01:20:34,439 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, even like Victorian because when when to the duel,

1382
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:39,680
you know, the idea of the duels. I feel like

1383
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,920
in the Victorian age that was so popular. You even

1384
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:47,600
see in like nineteenth century Dostoevsky and I.

1385
01:20:47,720 --> 01:20:50,279
Speaker 4: Take out a white glove and I slapped you, and sure.

1386
01:20:50,239 --> 01:20:52,680
Speaker 3: Sure, but you know the character and the underground man

1387
01:20:52,760 --> 01:20:55,199
in a Notes from the Underground, he's obsessed with dueling,

1388
01:20:55,359 --> 01:20:57,479
and it's this, yeah, it's like this western import that

1389
01:20:57,560 --> 01:21:00,960
made its way into the Russian elite from England and France,

1390
01:21:01,039 --> 01:21:05,079
and it was this romanticized, you know, macho thing back then.

1391
01:21:05,199 --> 01:21:09,920
The duel. I mean, it's very symbolically rich and works

1392
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:14,000
really well. And you know, you have the elements of

1393
01:21:14,039 --> 01:21:16,119
the past, the present, in the future all there, and

1394
01:21:16,199 --> 01:21:18,319
the imagery and the aesthetics of Doune, which I think

1395
01:21:18,399 --> 01:21:20,159
is why a lot of people, you know, a lot

1396
01:21:20,199 --> 01:21:23,359
of people on the like Twitter spectrum, because if you

1397
01:21:23,359 --> 01:21:25,640
look at Twitter, the arguments are hilarious. You know, people

1398
01:21:26,560 --> 01:21:28,840
freaking out about no, you guys, you can't like Paul.

1399
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:30,560
You're not supposed to like Paul. Look at this video

1400
01:21:30,600 --> 01:21:33,920
of dni Venuve saying why Paul's a bad guy, and

1401
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:36,399
then these people on the right are like, no, he's

1402
01:21:36,560 --> 01:21:39,159
you know, I don't care. It's based. You know, there's

1403
01:21:39,199 --> 01:21:42,279
like the character what's his face? The dude from no

1404
01:21:42,319 --> 01:21:45,479
Country from old man Javier Bardem. He has a line

1405
01:21:45,520 --> 01:21:47,520
where he's I don't care what you believe I believe.

1406
01:21:48,039 --> 01:21:49,600
So a lot of the kind of more right wing

1407
01:21:49,720 --> 01:21:52,800
Christian guys though, respond with that meme, I don't care

1408
01:21:52,840 --> 01:21:55,720
if you believe I believe Paul is the lisan Al

1409
01:21:55,800 --> 01:21:58,960
Gaib And then the you know, the the leftists are mad.

1410
01:21:59,039 --> 01:22:01,239
They're like, no, religion is fake. It's all just fake.

1411
01:22:01,319 --> 01:22:05,279
The Benijesterrad invented it. So the conversation that's being had

1412
01:22:05,359 --> 01:22:09,800
culturally about it really gives you an interesting microscope into

1413
01:22:10,560 --> 01:22:14,159
where we're at in this heyitgeist, which you know, any

1414
01:22:14,359 --> 01:22:16,359
piece of art, it's going to have multiple ways. It

1415
01:22:16,359 --> 01:22:18,520
can be interpreted. Different people are going to take it

1416
01:22:18,600 --> 01:22:21,119
in different ways, and I think that's where it does

1417
01:22:21,880 --> 01:22:23,079
definitely works with Dune.

1418
01:22:23,880 --> 01:22:28,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's that golden path. So I was I wanted

1419
01:22:28,279 --> 01:22:30,199
to check myself on this to make sure I was right.

1420
01:22:30,359 --> 01:22:33,119
Speaker 3: The golden path is how I interpret it, which is correct,

1421
01:22:33,439 --> 01:22:38,079
and how everyone else interprets it is absolutely wrong. Low IQ.

1422
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:41,840
Speaker 4: So some of the done nerds are saying humanity's future

1423
01:22:41,880 --> 01:22:45,479
extinction is seen as guaranteed due to the fact that

1424
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:50,279
humanity was all grouped under an imperium, the banner of

1425
01:22:50,319 --> 01:22:52,520
the empire. This meant that every human be affected by

1426
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,520
the decisions made at the highest level of that government.

1427
01:22:55,960 --> 01:22:58,159
So a serious threat to the imperium meant that a

1428
01:22:58,239 --> 01:23:01,239
serious threat to the human race would ensue. The Golden

1429
01:23:01,319 --> 01:23:07,319
Path sought to diversify humanity across the universe to nullify

1430
01:23:07,399 --> 01:23:10,760
the weakness of the Empire. Paul refused to follow this path,

1431
01:23:10,800 --> 01:23:13,199
as he was essentially still a good person, and spent

1432
01:23:13,239 --> 01:23:18,960
his life trying to undo the myths unsuccessfully that he

1433
01:23:19,039 --> 01:23:22,279
had caught that he had created in order to do

1434
01:23:22,479 --> 01:23:26,279
the Jihad or whatever. So but then somebody says, oh,

1435
01:23:26,359 --> 01:23:29,600
this is actually what Paul told himself. It's a lot,

1436
01:23:30,880 --> 01:23:33,159
But now I think that the storyline is that there

1437
01:23:33,239 --> 01:23:37,199
is a Golden Path, and that Paul chose the path that,

1438
01:23:37,399 --> 01:23:40,119
even though it had the Jihad, was like the only

1439
01:23:40,239 --> 01:23:44,399
one that that was was the salvation and human race.

1440
01:23:44,520 --> 01:23:48,239
And then somebody says, well, Herbert died before he finished

1441
01:23:48,279 --> 01:23:52,680
the novel, so we don't exactly know, but most people don't.

1442
01:23:53,560 --> 01:23:54,920
Speaker 3: I don't think he knew what he was doing.

1443
01:23:55,000 --> 01:23:56,840
Speaker 4: It's like he was just making up as he went.

1444
01:23:57,199 --> 01:23:59,760
Speaker 3: It seems he wrote the first novel, people read it

1445
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,319
in a certain way. He got annoyed with how people

1446
01:24:02,399 --> 01:24:06,479
read it, wrote Dune Messiah to got a retcon how

1447
01:24:06,560 --> 01:24:09,039
people were seeing it. I mean there's and then every

1448
01:24:09,079 --> 01:24:12,479
book after that he's he's probably getting lost in his

1449
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:14,840
own sauce a little bit because it's it's such a

1450
01:24:15,439 --> 01:24:19,760
massive undertaking to create this literary world such as this.

1451
01:24:20,279 --> 01:24:24,079
I mean, you almost seem like you'd go mad trying

1452
01:24:24,079 --> 01:24:25,399
to write all those That sounds like he kind of

1453
01:24:25,439 --> 01:24:26,319
did it.

1454
01:24:27,159 --> 01:24:32,640
Speaker 4: Here's another super nerd saying, so the Golden Path was there. Yeah,

1455
01:24:32,720 --> 01:24:34,960
this is what I thought to save humanity from a

1456
01:24:35,079 --> 01:24:40,039
future existential threat. And it says this is correct. Although

1457
01:24:40,079 --> 01:24:44,079
Herbert didn't finish everything in the series. In chapter House Done,

1458
01:24:44,079 --> 01:24:46,279
there are two people that are quote called the they're

1459
01:24:46,319 --> 01:24:49,640
casting the net. You never find out who exactly they are,

1460
01:24:49,840 --> 01:24:53,159
but they're an existential threat from the Golden Path that

1461
01:24:53,239 --> 01:24:56,159
Paul chose. They are either AI bots of the future

1462
01:24:56,239 --> 01:24:58,920
I forgot AI makes a comeback. That's right in the

1463
01:24:59,199 --> 01:25:02,359
AI Bots of the the future are the I think

1464
01:25:02,399 --> 01:25:05,039
that most people think that's the existential threat, and it's

1465
01:25:05,039 --> 01:25:07,439
the same threat that happened before the but lerryne Hot

1466
01:25:07,880 --> 01:25:11,600
they're gonna come back and they think that AI is extinct,

1467
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:15,439
but somehow secretly AI survived on some planet. I think

1468
01:25:15,439 --> 01:25:18,239
it's the ben at a Lax that keep the AI

1469
01:25:18,399 --> 01:25:19,359
going or something.

1470
01:25:19,399 --> 01:25:22,319
Speaker 3: Would is that the Space Guild like the Space.

1471
01:25:23,560 --> 01:25:26,560
Speaker 4: These are the the weird, like they're like their own

1472
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:31,439
hermit race of people that engage in the genetic manipulation.

1473
01:25:32,399 --> 01:25:35,520
And even though AI is banned, I think there's they're

1474
01:25:35,560 --> 01:25:37,479
the ones that are like secretly still doing it. So

1475
01:25:37,560 --> 01:25:42,199
in Dune Messiah, they're the ones that create the the

1476
01:25:42,319 --> 01:25:48,960
Duncan clone husk figure that's a trap for Paul. So

1477
01:25:49,199 --> 01:25:54,000
AI is supposed to be extinct, somehow there was They

1478
01:25:54,039 --> 01:25:58,439
were running back into the known universe from something the AI.

1479
01:25:58,800 --> 01:26:01,760
They never say what it is, uh whatever. Paul and

1480
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,399
Lido the Second saw the worm sun Leado took the

1481
01:26:05,439 --> 01:26:09,399
direct action needed to put humanity for sure onto the

1482
01:26:09,439 --> 01:26:14,239
Golden Path. Paul was afraid. So apparently some of the visions.

1483
01:26:13,960 --> 01:26:20,039
Speaker 3: Of all these these people are I can't imagine having

1484
01:26:20,119 --> 01:26:22,560
this much of the lower in my head all the time.

1485
01:26:22,680 --> 01:26:26,920
Speaker 4: This is super nerd. So apparently some of the reasons

1486
01:26:26,920 --> 01:26:29,119
that we see Paul freaking out in his visions like

1487
01:26:29,239 --> 01:26:33,239
in the movie Too is because he was super afraid

1488
01:26:33,399 --> 01:26:37,439
of the price that would be paid by choosing the

1489
01:26:37,479 --> 01:26:38,359
Golden Path.

1490
01:26:38,399 --> 01:26:40,119
Speaker 3: Which because he knew billions are going to.

1491
01:26:40,159 --> 01:26:44,000
Speaker 4: Die, right, No, no, no, his freaking offspring going to

1492
01:26:44,039 --> 01:26:44,720
be a worm? Dude.

1493
01:26:45,600 --> 01:26:48,560
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, boy, I can't even I can't even vision.

1494
01:26:48,600 --> 01:26:51,520
How are they going to do that? That's there's no way. Look,

1495
01:26:52,279 --> 01:26:55,199
just leave it at two Films Messiah.

1496
01:26:57,800 --> 01:26:58,159
Speaker 1: Venue.

1497
01:26:59,800 --> 01:27:02,399
Speaker 4: You look, the artwork is awesome. If you look up

1498
01:27:02,439 --> 01:27:04,399
the pictures of them, he looks. He looks pretty wild,

1499
01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,720
kind of like a long skinny job of the hut.

1500
01:27:08,000 --> 01:27:10,199
Speaker 3: He's just gonna be like he's like Gumby, He's like

1501
01:27:10,319 --> 01:27:11,399
gummy a worm.

1502
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:17,800
Speaker 4: Hey, I'm gonna say, what would you do if they

1503
01:27:17,920 --> 01:27:22,399
make Dune worm boy Dune and they just put Gumby

1504
01:27:22,439 --> 01:27:26,239
in there? That would be crazy. It's like Villas level

1505
01:27:26,319 --> 01:27:33,039
of production. But it's just gummy, dude.

1506
01:27:33,079 --> 01:27:35,319
Speaker 3: I'm looking at I'm looking at some of these funny

1507
01:27:35,359 --> 01:27:38,199
tweets and just people you know, arguing about it, giving

1508
01:27:38,239 --> 01:27:40,880
their takes that this one's I like this one. Herbert

1509
01:27:40,960 --> 01:27:44,000
didn't understand the underlying subtext of his own creation, which

1510
01:27:44,039 --> 01:27:49,079
ironically in a way mirrors the situation of his protagonist. Paul. Wow,

1511
01:27:49,279 --> 01:27:52,039
that's actually that's pretty insightful. I like that a lot,

1512
01:27:53,159 --> 01:27:56,239
this one. I don't think you have to claim properties

1513
01:27:56,279 --> 01:27:58,479
like doing his right wing. You can just enjoy the

1514
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:01,800
sublime nature of a tip related liberal writing the most

1515
01:28:01,920 --> 01:28:05,159
base shit imaginable, like a fat boy on a diet

1516
01:28:05,239 --> 01:28:11,479
sneaking a cookie at midnight. That's a great take. That's like,

1517
01:28:11,600 --> 01:28:15,560
some of these tweets are better reviews. Then then you're

1518
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:17,560
gonna read on the credit exactly.

1519
01:28:18,199 --> 01:28:20,720
Speaker 4: Look up Lido the Worm. You got to see this

1520
01:28:20,800 --> 01:28:21,159
guy though.

1521
01:28:21,199 --> 01:28:22,880
Speaker 3: All right, let's we'll pull the worm.

1522
01:28:23,640 --> 01:28:25,279
Speaker 4: If you can show the crowd, they'd be funny too,

1523
01:28:26,359 --> 01:28:29,479
because if they make this, that's that's gonna.

1524
01:28:29,239 --> 01:28:30,319
Speaker 1: Be some wow stuff.

1525
01:28:31,560 --> 01:28:37,520
Speaker 4: Let's see. Oh man, so that's the gold that's the

1526
01:28:37,560 --> 01:28:38,199
golden path.

1527
01:28:38,399 --> 01:28:39,239
Speaker 1: Is Lido the Worm?

1528
01:28:40,039 --> 01:28:41,720
Speaker 3: The Worm? All right, let's see I can pull this

1529
01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:45,520
up on screat. While I'm doing this, let me give

1530
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:47,760
a little reminder to the body, to the audience. All

1531
01:28:47,760 --> 01:28:51,199
the bigots on the nerds, the chad nerds from Jay

1532
01:28:51,279 --> 01:28:53,880
Dyer's channel, the biggots from over here. There is a

1533
01:28:54,039 --> 01:28:57,039
link in the description. You can drop a super chat

1534
01:28:57,039 --> 01:28:59,800
if you got questions, if you got anything to say,

1535
01:29:00,000 --> 01:29:02,720
if you want to just yell at me and Jay,

1536
01:29:03,079 --> 01:29:07,479
how we don't understand the depth of Frank Herbert's world

1537
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:10,680
created here in Dune. If we totally missed it, and

1538
01:29:10,960 --> 01:29:14,760
we we totally missed the point that only you understand,

1539
01:29:15,439 --> 01:29:18,079
maybe make sure to drop a super chat via stream

1540
01:29:18,159 --> 01:29:20,960
labs or via YouTube. Try to pull this up.

1541
01:29:21,600 --> 01:29:23,520
Speaker 4: I mean, this is like, you know, how, you know

1542
01:29:23,560 --> 01:29:27,239
how some people treat certain things like Star Wars as

1543
01:29:27,279 --> 01:29:31,399
a religion, kind of like super nerd Like, I'm surprised

1544
01:29:31,479 --> 01:29:34,319
that this isn't treated more a religion. But I think

1545
01:29:34,359 --> 01:29:38,159
it's so obscure, so out there that actually takes a

1546
01:29:38,199 --> 01:29:40,720
pretty high IQ person to really get into noon. So

1547
01:29:42,079 --> 01:29:44,720
maybe that person is a little super smart think of

1548
01:29:44,760 --> 01:29:45,840
it as a religion.

1549
01:29:47,000 --> 01:29:48,399
Speaker 3: Perhaps, but or.

1550
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:51,960
Speaker 4: Just maybe it's tozy. Maybe maybe we have yet seeing

1551
01:29:52,000 --> 01:29:54,439
the emergence of the Dune religion. Maybe maybe Frank Herbert

1552
01:29:54,560 --> 01:29:56,119
was actually writing at what he thought might be a

1553
01:29:56,239 --> 01:29:57,039
future religion.

1554
01:29:57,079 --> 01:30:00,680
Speaker 3: I don't know, so which which character in doing Universe?

1555
01:30:00,720 --> 01:30:05,079
Which character you j Baron harkinin right? For sure?

1556
01:30:09,199 --> 01:30:14,640
Speaker 4: I'm I'm obviously perpetual stank face. Hi.

1557
01:30:15,239 --> 01:30:21,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, she's the greatest character, resting smelly face CHANI.

1558
01:30:21,560 --> 01:30:23,239
Speaker 4: I'm warm boy. I want to be a leader of

1559
01:30:23,279 --> 01:30:23,760
the Second, the.

1560
01:30:23,760 --> 01:30:24,800
Speaker 3: One, the second.

1561
01:30:24,840 --> 01:30:29,840
Speaker 4: Okay, who are you interest, I'm Jessica.

1562
01:30:31,119 --> 01:30:33,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, Jessica, that's my wife's name.

1563
01:30:33,359 --> 01:30:34,680
Speaker 4: I know exactly.

1564
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:38,880
Speaker 3: It's a pretty meta. I know some of these portrayals of.

1565
01:30:40,600 --> 01:30:45,920
Speaker 4: War, we could get into like a a familials, you know,

1566
01:30:46,159 --> 01:30:49,920
war with Chase. You could kill Chase and then Chase

1567
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:53,399
could possess you and you could be like two consciousnesses

1568
01:30:53,439 --> 01:30:53,800
in one.

1569
01:30:54,000 --> 01:30:56,680
Speaker 3: People keep talking about some Chase person that I'm supposed

1570
01:30:56,680 --> 01:30:59,800
to know. I don't understand how like who this person

1571
01:30:59,920 --> 01:31:03,880
is is. There's apparently somebody on the Internet tries to

1572
01:31:03,960 --> 01:31:06,199
act like he's related to me or something. His name

1573
01:31:06,279 --> 01:31:07,319
might be Chased. I don't know.

1574
01:31:07,399 --> 01:31:09,960
Speaker 4: There's a troll LARPer running around.

1575
01:31:10,680 --> 01:31:21,800
Speaker 3: Stalker. Yeah no, I'm clearly what's his face? Wroth Fade Fade,

1576
01:31:21,880 --> 01:31:29,079
rothschild fail, I'm the I'm the Space Bankers. And then

1577
01:31:29,239 --> 01:31:29,640
I love.

1578
01:31:31,159 --> 01:31:35,000
Speaker 4: In David Lynch when I love how Sting plays Fate.

1579
01:31:35,119 --> 01:31:37,560
He's just a totally ridiculous person.

1580
01:31:38,239 --> 01:31:39,359
Speaker 3: I have to watch it.

1581
01:31:39,560 --> 01:31:40,960
Speaker 4: You got to watch the rest of it, because they

1582
01:31:41,000 --> 01:31:47,560
actually imply that the Baron might be like touching. I mean,

1583
01:31:47,560 --> 01:31:49,239
it doesn't show it, but it's like they have this

1584
01:31:49,399 --> 01:31:52,800
weird kind of like like lusty sort.

1585
01:31:52,600 --> 01:31:57,399
Speaker 3: Of oh creepy. Well, he's the baron in the books, right,

1586
01:31:57,560 --> 01:32:00,600
is supposedly he's a he's a he's a did he's

1587
01:32:00,640 --> 01:32:07,039
a diddy? You use diddy now for for dealers A diddy?

1588
01:32:08,680 --> 01:32:12,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was in the They have the hard cone

1589
01:32:12,640 --> 01:32:15,760
is install heart plugs because they're kind of psycho and

1590
01:32:15,880 --> 01:32:19,760
they actually enjoy killing so that they'll pull this plug

1591
01:32:19,840 --> 01:32:21,920
out and your your blood just strains out.

1592
01:32:22,760 --> 01:32:24,640
Speaker 3: This is I mean, they're so evil. The Hearkenings are

1593
01:32:24,680 --> 01:32:25,119
so evil.

1594
01:32:25,119 --> 01:32:26,720
Speaker 4: They're also cannibalistic. That's the thing.

1595
01:32:26,960 --> 01:32:30,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're cannibals. They're fat, they have ugly aesthetic. They're

1596
01:32:30,399 --> 01:32:35,239
aesthetically disgusting. They're like translucent, they have no skin tone.

1597
01:32:36,560 --> 01:32:39,640
But some people were making the critique of well, of course,

1598
01:32:39,720 --> 01:32:41,520
you know, the the bad guys in the film are

1599
01:32:41,560 --> 01:32:44,239
all like the white guys, and then the diverse people

1600
01:32:44,520 --> 01:32:47,159
beat up the white guys. But I mean, Herbert wrote

1601
01:32:47,199 --> 01:32:49,079
the book, right, didn't he just did he describe the

1602
01:32:49,119 --> 01:32:53,960
Hearkening as being uh like translucent, super pale buy no

1603
01:32:54,119 --> 01:32:55,960
freaks or how question.

1604
01:32:55,840 --> 01:32:58,680
Speaker 4: I remember, I can't remember they had the red hair

1605
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:00,840
or not or who exactly what they're supposed to be,

1606
01:33:00,960 --> 01:33:05,520
But they definitely come off as like, I don't know,

1607
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:09,239
some kind of I mean, they're definitely aberrant and they're

1608
01:33:09,279 --> 01:33:14,279
not just like pedo cannibal degenerates. They're actually really brutal

1609
01:33:14,439 --> 01:33:17,960
to the fremen. And so when House the Trades takes

1610
01:33:18,039 --> 01:33:23,399
over them, the freemen are blown away because the the

1611
01:33:23,479 --> 01:33:27,199
Trade's family is like like they're they engage in alms giving,

1612
01:33:27,359 --> 01:33:30,399
like they're they're known as a righteous family. So I

1613
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,279
like the fact that, I mean, if you read the story,

1614
01:33:32,439 --> 01:33:35,600
like the Trades are a righteous household or righteous family,

1615
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:39,479
they they do virtuous things. The Harknans are absolutely discussing

1616
01:33:39,479 --> 01:33:43,800
and degenerate, and it's antipedo.

1617
01:33:43,479 --> 01:33:48,560
Speaker 3: So it's anti so it's anti fat, it's anti anti glutton,

1618
01:33:48,800 --> 01:33:54,119
anti pudo. And they're also well it's the boy they're

1619
01:33:54,199 --> 01:33:56,640
boy diddlers or whatever, right, I mean, they're like little

1620
01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,439
boys the o the Hearken in. So they're just total degenerate,

1621
01:33:59,520 --> 01:34:05,159
completely evil scum. The Traadees righteous alms giving, treat people well,

1622
01:34:06,000 --> 01:34:11,159
learn their cultures, aren't just there purely to exploit them,

1623
01:34:11,279 --> 01:34:15,640
want a symbiotic relationship. So I think I think it's

1624
01:34:16,159 --> 01:34:18,800
it's cool how he you know, he didn't make it

1625
01:34:18,920 --> 01:34:21,520
to where they're just all they're all colonists, like or

1626
01:34:21,600 --> 01:34:23,640
you know, get rid of the evil colonists, like the

1627
01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:24,840
colonial mean.

1628
01:34:25,960 --> 01:34:28,359
Speaker 4: Coming to Paul's dad's leader of the just. He's known

1629
01:34:28,399 --> 01:34:31,479
as leader of the Just. They wanted to and if

1630
01:34:31,520 --> 01:34:36,640
you remember, Christopher Walkin says, your dad was a weak man, right,

1631
01:34:36,720 --> 01:34:38,800
He's like, your dad was weak and that's why he

1632
01:34:38,960 --> 01:34:41,600
needed to go. He was too good for this kind

1633
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,920
of life that's kind of imperial politics.

1634
01:34:44,079 --> 01:34:46,239
Speaker 3: So I remember the line that lead of the just

1635
01:34:47,079 --> 01:34:49,279
he says to Paul in the first film. He says,

1636
01:34:49,319 --> 01:34:53,359
a good leader, a good leader doesn't want power, but

1637
01:34:54,079 --> 01:34:56,079
I forget what the exact line is. A good leader

1638
01:34:56,119 --> 01:35:00,399
doesn't want to lead, but he does it because he

1639
01:35:00,560 --> 01:35:02,279
has to. Basically, it's kind of like a take up

1640
01:35:02,319 --> 01:35:07,159
your cross and lead Paul. So there's there's so much

1641
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:10,920
indicating that the Tredees are righteous. So it's kind of

1642
01:35:10,960 --> 01:35:14,680
funny that Herbert would just expect you to you know think, oh, no,

1643
01:35:14,960 --> 01:35:18,039
you know, it's so dangerous to have a charismatic leader, Like,

1644
01:35:18,159 --> 01:35:20,279
why is it dangerous to have a charismatic leader? I

1645
01:35:20,319 --> 01:35:22,279
guess he fleshes that out a little bit later on

1646
01:35:22,520 --> 01:35:26,479
because of Paul is you know, I guess the charismatic

1647
01:35:26,600 --> 01:35:29,960
leader can be wanting power for the wrong reasons, Paul

1648
01:35:30,079 --> 01:35:32,960
perhaps having vengeance on his mind. Is you know, is

1649
01:35:33,039 --> 01:35:36,239
not a virtuous trait. But it seems almost like Frank

1650
01:35:36,279 --> 01:35:40,000
Herbert in his writing these novels and writing the story,

1651
01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:44,279
he almost had a hang up about power itself, monarchy itself,

1652
01:35:44,960 --> 01:35:46,920
even though it seems to be the natural order of

1653
01:35:46,960 --> 01:35:50,039
the universe, even in the Dune universe, monarchy is natural.

1654
01:35:50,520 --> 01:35:52,319
But it's like, well, even if a good guy comes

1655
01:35:52,359 --> 01:35:55,199
to the throne, then it's still bad. It's just like

1656
01:35:55,279 --> 01:36:00,479
the nature of power itself can corrupt or inevitably does corrupt.

1657
01:36:00,520 --> 01:36:02,720
I guess he's trying to say, well, so.

1658
01:36:02,800 --> 01:36:05,600
Speaker 4: The right the first warning is that if we think

1659
01:36:05,600 --> 01:36:10,279
about the existing universe with Emperor Christopher Walkin, it's not

1660
01:36:10,520 --> 01:36:14,319
that bad. There's stability, I mean, there's degenerously the harcone is,

1661
01:36:14,399 --> 01:36:16,720
but like it's not a universal Johaba with a bunch

1662
01:36:16,760 --> 01:36:23,039
of death. Hall's revolution is debatable at first, and I

1663
01:36:23,119 --> 01:36:26,680
think you're probably right that because he's writing during the

1664
01:36:26,760 --> 01:36:30,319
Cold War, you know, the jfk assassination happened. There's a

1665
01:36:30,359 --> 01:36:33,840
great essay in dom Aside at the beginning about historical

1666
01:36:33,920 --> 01:36:36,319
setting when he wrote the sequel, and it's kind of

1667
01:36:36,479 --> 01:36:40,640
a warning about the temptations of too much power. But

1668
01:36:41,159 --> 01:36:45,640
I think you're right that as the novels progress, it's

1669
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:49,079
almost like he thinks, what I mean, we're going to

1670
01:36:49,119 --> 01:36:52,319
get back to if we're going to have an empire piece,

1671
01:36:53,199 --> 01:36:54,960
it can't just be a mere man. It's got to

1672
01:36:55,000 --> 01:36:57,239
be something more than man. And so it ends up

1673
01:36:57,279 --> 01:37:00,960
being a worm man hybrid, something more than man, beyond man,

1674
01:37:01,479 --> 01:37:05,319
because man isn't ever going to achieve this, this utopia,

1675
01:37:05,399 --> 01:37:07,520
so it's got to be something more than man. And

1676
01:37:07,920 --> 01:37:11,279
so even though it does occur in the story and

1677
01:37:11,399 --> 01:37:15,000
Paul doesn't end up a villain, he's a Paul's a

1678
01:37:15,079 --> 01:37:16,760
tragic hero, I guess is the way to put it.

1679
01:37:16,840 --> 01:37:22,439
Like he's a So tell you talking to the chase

1680
01:37:22,479 --> 01:37:23,840
altar in your head, that's.

1681
01:37:24,359 --> 01:37:26,720
Speaker 3: Oh, you know, I muted so the audience couldn't hear that,

1682
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,319
but you could hear me yelling at my dog. That's

1683
01:37:30,439 --> 01:37:32,880
that's what I call my alter, called the chase alter

1684
01:37:33,000 --> 01:37:34,640
in your head, my dog, that's the thing is like

1685
01:37:34,680 --> 01:37:36,720
when I when I, when I took I took so

1686
01:37:36,880 --> 01:37:40,079
much of this spice milange, and I got an altar.

1687
01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:43,800
That is. Her name is Dahlia, and she's a dog.

1688
01:37:44,560 --> 01:37:48,119
She sometimes barks at nothing, a great dog, but she

1689
01:37:48,239 --> 01:37:51,279
just once she starts barking, her echo goes against Like

1690
01:37:51,520 --> 01:37:53,720
she barks, and her freaking echo hits the mountains and

1691
01:37:53,760 --> 01:37:55,920
comes back at her, and she hears the bark come

1692
01:37:55,960 --> 01:37:58,680
back at her, and then she just starts looping. So

1693
01:37:58,840 --> 01:38:02,439
it's she's caught the loop right now, barking at her.

1694
01:38:02,399 --> 01:38:05,560
Speaker 4: Own that's bark wits level. We got dog altars in

1695
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:07,760
your head. That's that's fa That's right.

1696
01:38:08,079 --> 01:38:10,479
Speaker 3: Ye dogs are funny, man. She'll bark at her own

1697
01:38:10,600 --> 01:38:13,239
she'll bark at her own looping echo. And then also

1698
01:38:13,479 --> 01:38:15,199
when she was a puppy, she tried to like fight

1699
01:38:15,359 --> 01:38:18,159
her u her reflection in the mirror when she first

1700
01:38:18,199 --> 01:38:20,319
saw it, growling at it and barking at it.

1701
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,720
Speaker 4: You're engaging and basically Jose dogado level of mynd control

1702
01:38:23,840 --> 01:38:26,439
and coult operations on your dog to brainwash it. Have

1703
01:38:26,520 --> 01:38:27,520
a halter. That's crazy.

1704
01:38:27,800 --> 01:38:31,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Bena ben a dog, Ben a Jesuit dog

1705
01:38:31,319 --> 01:38:35,880
handled Sorry about that. No, that seemed rude because I

1706
01:38:35,920 --> 01:38:37,760
thought I h I thought I muted it so you

1707
01:38:37,840 --> 01:38:40,920
couldn't hear it. But it was just the Someone says

1708
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:42,800
Jay doesn't Oh yeah, j probably don't even like dogs.

1709
01:38:42,840 --> 01:38:43,600
He doesn't have dogs.

1710
01:38:45,000 --> 01:38:47,520
Speaker 4: I have really, you know, pretty bad allergies, so I

1711
01:38:47,600 --> 01:38:50,119
don't and we travel quite a bit.

1712
01:38:50,079 --> 01:38:54,279
Speaker 3: So cats, man, I'm super allergic cats, can't stand them.

1713
01:38:55,159 --> 01:38:57,399
Speaker 4: I am too, But even dogs kind of bug me.

1714
01:38:57,560 --> 01:39:00,680
So yeah, I wouldn't mind having a It's just kind

1715
01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:02,439
of it's difficult if you travel a lot.

1716
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:04,079
Speaker 3: Having a pet, kind of herd you have, like you

1717
01:39:04,159 --> 01:39:05,319
have your people, you have the help.

1718
01:39:06,960 --> 01:39:08,720
Speaker 4: I don't allow them to have a dog because it

1719
01:39:08,760 --> 01:39:11,359
would be detracting from their focus on me.

1720
01:39:11,760 --> 01:39:13,359
Speaker 3: No, what I'm saying, Yeah, what I'm saying is like

1721
01:39:13,399 --> 01:39:15,479
they're you know, they're probably a better pet.

1722
01:39:16,039 --> 01:39:18,920
Speaker 4: Did you ever watch the Teal Swan documentary where she

1723
01:39:19,000 --> 01:39:22,840
actually says that. Nope, She's like, I don't want any

1724
01:39:22,880 --> 01:39:26,039
of my inner circle to actually have children. Because how

1725
01:39:26,039 --> 01:39:27,560
are they going to focus on me if they have children?

1726
01:39:28,039 --> 01:39:31,840
She's not joking, dude, She's a nutcase. Man, Can you

1727
01:39:31,880 --> 01:39:34,359
believe that? That's it? She actually says that in the documentary,

1728
01:39:34,399 --> 01:39:37,039
and then she's mad that people are mad at her.

1729
01:39:37,239 --> 01:39:39,119
As she's portrayed in the documentary, It's like, did you're

1730
01:39:39,159 --> 01:39:41,079
a psycho? What are you talking about?

1731
01:39:42,079 --> 01:39:46,039
Speaker 3: You know, there's a new cult documentary that I love

1732
01:39:46,159 --> 01:39:48,680
has won, the Cult of the Mother God. Have you

1733
01:39:48,760 --> 01:39:49,079
seen this?

1734
01:39:49,359 --> 01:39:49,479
Speaker 6: Oh?

1735
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,800
Speaker 4: I have watched multiple things on her. I have not

1736
01:39:54,000 --> 01:39:57,119
seen that. But another great thing on her to watch

1737
01:39:57,319 --> 01:39:59,560
is her Doctor Phil episode is pretty wild.

1738
01:40:00,119 --> 01:40:02,159
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I was thinking maybe we could we can

1739
01:40:02,199 --> 01:40:05,479
analyze that one. Oh yeah, I think there's three episodes

1740
01:40:05,520 --> 01:40:05,840
so far.

1741
01:40:05,880 --> 01:40:10,079
Speaker 4: I think, yeah, did you see do you remember that

1742
01:40:10,199 --> 01:40:14,680
blonde psychologist girl that I interviewed on Colts maybe a

1743
01:40:14,760 --> 01:40:18,880
year ago? Okay, yeah, we discussed some Mother God and that,

1744
01:40:20,840 --> 01:40:22,960
so we covered it for maybe on a fifteen twenty minutes.

1745
01:40:23,000 --> 01:40:24,560
It'd be great to do a whole deep dive on it.

1746
01:40:24,640 --> 01:40:28,119
But yeah, the Doctor Phil episode is great because it's

1747
01:40:28,319 --> 01:40:30,000
classic Doctor Phil or He's just.

1748
01:40:30,119 --> 01:40:35,399
Speaker 1: Like, now, is it possible? Could you conceive the possibility

1749
01:40:35,479 --> 01:40:38,039
that maybe you aren't God.

1750
01:40:39,039 --> 01:40:41,520
Speaker 3: Do we need doctor Phil as the That's who should

1751
01:40:41,560 --> 01:40:44,800
have been the Emperor? Right, Christopher walk in, Dude, Christopher Walking.

1752
01:40:44,840 --> 01:40:45,880
It was kind of a weird choice.

1753
01:40:46,119 --> 01:40:48,239
Speaker 4: That was the only criticism I have on the whole

1754
01:40:48,319 --> 01:40:51,600
movie is I mean, her, her sassy girl boss stuff

1755
01:40:51,640 --> 01:40:54,319
is a little annoying. But yeah, like Christopher Walker is

1756
01:40:54,359 --> 01:40:58,680
such an absurd, weirdo guy character all the time, Like

1757
01:40:58,960 --> 01:41:02,279
he doesn't come off a cunning you know, like aged

1758
01:41:02,880 --> 01:41:03,760
sage emperor.

1759
01:41:04,119 --> 01:41:06,600
Speaker 3: But now so we need you need Jay to do

1760
01:41:07,640 --> 01:41:10,840
doctor Phil as the Emperor delegating in between House of

1761
01:41:10,880 --> 01:41:12,520
Trades and House Hearkening.

1762
01:41:12,720 --> 01:41:19,399
Speaker 1: Well, we need to talk about who this what deb is? Okay?

1763
01:41:19,840 --> 01:41:23,640
Do you is it possible, Paul, that maybe you're not

1764
01:41:24,359 --> 01:41:25,600
the lizon O guy?

1765
01:41:27,439 --> 01:41:31,520
Speaker 3: Do you think that maybe, maybe, just just maybe you

1766
01:41:31,640 --> 01:41:34,159
took a little too much of the spies? Paul?

1767
01:41:34,600 --> 01:41:37,880
Speaker 2: Do you think you may be the spy's habit is

1768
01:41:37,960 --> 01:41:43,399
getting in between your relationship with your grandfather the hearkening.

1769
01:41:44,159 --> 01:41:49,119
Perhaps some rehabilitation could could bring about a better relationship

1770
01:41:49,720 --> 01:41:51,399
in the known universe.

1771
01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:54,720
Speaker 3: About Deb what he does all.

1772
01:41:54,640 --> 01:41:56,560
Speaker 4: The time is like every time he's talking to the

1773
01:41:56,600 --> 01:41:59,960
craziest person. I watched like twenty of the Best Doctor Phil,

1774
01:42:00,039 --> 01:42:02,199
where it's always the craziest person you could think of.

1775
01:42:02,920 --> 01:42:05,399
Ye I was actually a pretty good approach to this

1776
01:42:05,520 --> 01:42:07,439
because he says, oh, look.

1777
01:42:07,760 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: You believe you're gone, but also there might be other

1778
01:42:14,079 --> 01:42:18,199
explanations for what you believe. But could it be? Is it?

1779
01:42:18,680 --> 01:42:21,960
Speaker 4: He'll always ask him, is it possible that there's another

1780
01:42:22,079 --> 01:42:24,279
explanation and it's maybe the drugs you took?

1781
01:42:24,680 --> 01:42:29,800
Speaker 2: Rights Is it possible that you don't see the future

1782
01:42:30,439 --> 01:42:35,239
but you see in deluded space, acid visions in your stupid,

1783
01:42:35,319 --> 01:42:39,239
deluded head, Maldo, do you think that maybe possible?

1784
01:42:40,479 --> 01:42:44,079
Speaker 4: And if they say no, and then he'll say why not?

1785
01:42:44,399 --> 01:42:45,560
Speaker 1: Why is that not Paul?

1786
01:42:47,399 --> 01:42:49,479
Speaker 4: And then they'll say some crazy thing, and then you know,

1787
01:42:49,640 --> 01:42:52,159
then he can determine whether they're reasonable. That tells him

1788
01:42:52,159 --> 01:42:54,000
whether they have any reasoning at all. I think is

1789
01:42:54,039 --> 01:42:54,560
why he does that.

1790
01:42:54,720 --> 01:42:58,239
Speaker 3: But what about doctor Phil. Doctor Phil is really the

1791
01:42:58,399 --> 01:43:01,680
actual head of the Benigester and he just plays kind

1792
01:43:01,720 --> 01:43:04,159
of dumb, but he's really he's like the master manipulation.

1793
01:43:04,399 --> 01:43:06,319
Speaker 4: You know, you want to hear something funny about darka Philip?

1794
01:43:06,560 --> 01:43:09,199
I forget who we were with? Uh, somebody who was

1795
01:43:09,520 --> 01:43:12,119
had been I can't remember for somebody who to makeup

1796
01:43:12,560 --> 01:43:14,680
or something. I did have makeup done.

1797
01:43:14,720 --> 01:43:16,359
Speaker 3: I don't know if you know this, but when I yeah,

1798
01:43:16,399 --> 01:43:17,439
before the stream.

1799
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:21,119
Speaker 4: No, no, before I went on O A N when

1800
01:43:21,159 --> 01:43:23,720
we went to l A, I literally actually did have

1801
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:24,800
my makeup done.

1802
01:43:25,000 --> 01:43:25,600
Speaker 6: So nice.

1803
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:27,600
Speaker 4: That's because that's a joke we make. We make this

1804
01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:30,960
joke all the time. Oh man, you like I thought

1805
01:43:30,960 --> 01:43:31,960
you would think it's funny.

1806
01:43:31,760 --> 01:43:33,640
Speaker 3: That I'll never be on your level. Now like you've

1807
01:43:33,720 --> 01:43:36,720
you've actually you've gone meta and you actually got your makeup.

1808
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:38,840
Speaker 4: Picture from the makeup room in an where I was like, Tristan,

1809
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:40,399
you understand, like I literally.

1810
01:43:40,119 --> 01:43:42,560
Speaker 3: Do have a makeup You have to frame you with

1811
01:43:42,720 --> 01:43:45,800
the makeup on like behind you and then and you

1812
01:43:45,880 --> 01:43:47,720
could have it like on your whiteboard. You can just

1813
01:43:47,880 --> 01:43:49,359
you know, remind me of every once in awhile, like

1814
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:54,640
Tristan never had this, never will you will never have.

1815
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:58,920
Speaker 4: Your make Make sure that you never enter this industry blackballed.

1816
01:43:59,279 --> 01:44:03,520
Speaker 3: In fact, everyone right, you know, Jay's just going around

1817
01:44:03,680 --> 01:44:05,680
l A just like bad mouth like people like who

1818
01:44:05,720 --> 01:44:08,000
are you even talking about? Who is this from the.

1819
01:44:08,039 --> 01:44:11,079
Speaker 4: Makeup workers, Like you're only back black belt from having makeup,

1820
01:44:11,159 --> 01:44:12,800
Like you can go on any show, it's just they'll

1821
01:44:12,880 --> 01:44:13,840
never do makeup for you.

1822
01:44:14,000 --> 01:44:15,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm completely black balled from from.

1823
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:21,119
Speaker 4: The Makeup Union, the Labor Makeup Union, Labor Union.

1824
01:44:22,119 --> 01:44:24,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was that a do with doctor Phil. Doctor

1825
01:44:24,760 --> 01:44:26,199
They're like, we're going to use the doctor Phil.

1826
01:44:26,640 --> 01:44:28,520
Speaker 4: How they used to work with doctor Phil. I'm trying

1827
01:44:28,520 --> 01:44:31,079
to remember who it was, so I apologize if you're

1828
01:44:31,079 --> 01:44:32,760
watching it and I'm not giving you credit. I just

1829
01:44:32,800 --> 01:44:35,880
can't remember. But they had this great story that that

1830
01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:38,560
they were traveling with doctor Phil a couple of years

1831
01:44:38,600 --> 01:44:41,319
ago and they were maybe doing security for him or something,

1832
01:44:41,399 --> 01:44:47,039
but they couldn't believe that wherever doctor Phil would go, dude,

1833
01:44:47,159 --> 01:44:52,399
everybody's moms and and aunts, like they like crowd him

1834
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:56,520
like he's Boomer Elvis. Dude, Like the women go crazy

1835
01:44:57,159 --> 01:45:00,479
and will like fight to like touch doctor Phil. Isn't

1836
01:45:00,479 --> 01:45:00,760
that crazy?

1837
01:45:00,800 --> 01:45:03,319
Speaker 3: It was like Oprah, you know Daytime TV. It's all.

1838
01:45:04,760 --> 01:45:05,239
Speaker 4: The women.

1839
01:45:06,840 --> 01:45:10,079
Speaker 3: I believe it. It's not because it's not because he's

1840
01:45:10,079 --> 01:45:12,680
attractive or something. It's just because they watched that daytime TV.

1841
01:45:12,840 --> 01:45:13,439
What time is he on?

1842
01:45:13,880 --> 01:45:16,319
Speaker 4: Yeah, and they're like they're like entrance yeah, he he.

1843
01:45:16,399 --> 01:45:17,880
Speaker 3: They spend more time with him than they do with

1844
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:21,000
their husband. There you go, like they know him, he

1845
01:45:21,159 --> 01:45:22,319
knows them, he's there.

1846
01:45:22,239 --> 01:45:24,039
Speaker 4: He's They were talking about how like they have to

1847
01:45:24,159 --> 01:45:28,279
protect him from like the like the the ants and

1848
01:45:28,319 --> 01:45:31,399
the boomer women that were as bum rush him.

1849
01:45:31,800 --> 01:45:34,640
Speaker 3: Day, just getting bum rushed by wine ants trying to

1850
01:45:34,880 --> 01:45:37,680
catch a and and he doesn't have that many hairs

1851
01:45:37,720 --> 01:45:41,359
to pluck off, you know, he's trying to get one

1852
01:45:41,479 --> 01:45:43,720
hair from his head to make a little little doll

1853
01:45:43,800 --> 01:45:44,239
out of him.

1854
01:45:46,000 --> 01:45:49,000
Speaker 4: So he's like the Elvis of like wine Ants exactly.

1855
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:51,560
Speaker 3: It was wild. I didn't realize that the guy that

1856
01:45:51,680 --> 01:45:54,399
played uh, Fade Roth played Elvis.

1857
01:45:55,239 --> 01:45:56,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, Austin Butler or whatever.

1858
01:45:57,159 --> 01:45:58,560
Speaker 3: He was so good it's Fade Roth. And then I

1859
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:02,319
I like watch the videos on YouTube and he yeah,

1860
01:46:02,359 --> 01:46:06,560
he just looks completely different and uh, outside of the film, Yeah, he.

1861
01:46:06,560 --> 01:46:08,439
Speaker 4: Did really good. The only thing I thought was a

1862
01:46:08,479 --> 01:46:12,720
little weird was that he was talking exactly like the

1863
01:46:12,800 --> 01:46:14,119
baron which it was.

1864
01:46:14,720 --> 01:46:15,560
Speaker 1: It was a little odd, but.

1865
01:46:15,760 --> 01:46:17,640
Speaker 3: The cultural thing they talked like this.

1866
01:46:20,479 --> 01:46:21,039
Speaker 1: That was good.

1867
01:46:21,920 --> 01:46:26,560
Speaker 3: That sound just like a yeah, makeupsuge, may your makeup

1868
01:46:26,760 --> 01:46:29,399
smudge and be faulty?

1869
01:46:30,199 --> 01:46:36,399
Speaker 4: May makeup smudge, mayo.

1870
01:46:36,319 --> 01:46:38,720
Speaker 5: Makeup smudge, and run with your sweat beats.

1871
01:46:43,880 --> 01:46:47,439
Speaker 4: Well, doctor come over here reading Doctor phil tonight he's

1872
01:46:47,479 --> 01:46:50,439
gonna be like, well, I can tell you Tristan will

1873
01:46:50,600 --> 01:46:55,000
never have makeup on my show. Wait, look he will.

1874
01:46:55,119 --> 01:47:00,359
Speaker 3: He gets his head plucked every day by multiple Guatemalan women.

1875
01:47:01,520 --> 01:47:04,640
That's just that's indulgent. That's too indulgent.

1876
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:08,000
Speaker 4: Uh, you gotta watch the Mother Okay, now you have

1877
01:47:08,079 --> 01:47:11,159
to watch the Mother God. Uh, doctor Phillips, I'll find

1878
01:47:11,199 --> 01:47:12,760
it for you. That's great, I'll find it.

1879
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:15,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll watch that. Shoot that over. We got some

1880
01:47:15,640 --> 01:47:17,760
super chats over here from the biggots and the nerds.

1881
01:47:17,840 --> 01:47:20,840
What some guys technographics at nineteen ninety nine through super chat,

1882
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:23,600
thank you so much, says richies are not forbidden, but

1883
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:27,439
the pride of them is riches. Not he spelled at richies,

1884
01:47:27,479 --> 01:47:29,640
but that's probably an auto spelled riches are not forbidden?

1885
01:47:30,279 --> 01:47:31,880
Speaker 4: Is this the proverbs of one deep?

1886
01:47:32,600 --> 01:47:36,000
Speaker 3: It's actually Saint John Chris. Riches are not forbidden, but

1887
01:47:36,079 --> 01:47:39,960
the pride of them is Yeah, Greg, I think.

1888
01:47:39,800 --> 01:47:43,119
Speaker 4: There's a reference to the desert fathers in Messiah.

1889
01:47:43,359 --> 01:47:44,119
Speaker 3: Oh, that's interesting.

1890
01:47:44,359 --> 01:47:46,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's because Paul is gonna end up

1891
01:47:46,640 --> 01:47:48,680
having to go and be obi Wan as a hermit.

1892
01:47:48,800 --> 01:47:51,560
And I think there's a reference at the back to

1893
01:47:51,640 --> 01:47:52,439
the Desert Fathers.

1894
01:47:52,479 --> 01:47:56,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, Greg donated ten bucks. Didn't even say anything, Thank you, Greg.

1895
01:47:56,600 --> 01:47:59,960
That was via stream Labs. Maximus Pike, Canadian five dollars

1896
01:48:00,039 --> 01:48:04,279
through Superchat, says straight Fire. Dave Gamillionaire four nine nine

1897
01:48:04,319 --> 01:48:06,840
through super Chat, thank you very much, didn't even say anything.

1898
01:48:07,279 --> 01:48:10,399
Rybranium donated five bucks, says worm Boy twenty twenty four.

1899
01:48:10,560 --> 01:48:14,199
It's gonna be huge. We're gonna make a recorts great again.

1900
01:48:16,600 --> 01:48:22,439
Jimmy Gray, give me creez Cepi, Joeb Joe, basically Harkonan.

1901
01:48:22,520 --> 01:48:24,560
Speaker 4: I don't know what do you do. Who's gonna make

1902
01:48:24,600 --> 01:48:26,800
the rags great? Gonna be great again? That's great.

1903
01:48:29,520 --> 01:48:33,039
Speaker 3: William Kreen donated fifteen bucks, says does a setting of

1904
01:48:33,079 --> 01:48:35,880
space or space travel versus Earth based movies usually go

1905
01:48:35,920 --> 01:48:42,000
along with God being impersonal or separated from creation. That's interesting.

1906
01:48:43,039 --> 01:48:46,640
I mean with Dune God, I know that with Dune

1907
01:48:46,680 --> 01:48:49,279
there seems to be a belief, a general belief in God.

1908
01:48:49,640 --> 01:48:52,239
Like Jay said at the beginning, it's kind of a

1909
01:48:53,039 --> 01:48:58,880
syncretistic perennialist vision of God. I'd say from the first

1910
01:48:59,000 --> 01:49:03,199
in the first two films, i'd say God, there is

1911
01:49:03,239 --> 01:49:05,479
a God that's present, but it's more of a.

1912
01:49:07,199 --> 01:49:12,680
Speaker 4: Possibly they call the Maker, the maker of all, you know,

1913
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:13,239
these kinds of.

1914
01:49:13,239 --> 01:49:16,319
Speaker 3: Phrases, the maker the clock like the great clockmaker who

1915
01:49:16,479 --> 01:49:19,439
just made the universe, and man can kind of just

1916
01:49:19,960 --> 01:49:23,000
try to ascend if they find enough spice or something.

1917
01:49:23,039 --> 01:49:26,960
Speaker 4: To be deistic, I'm not sure, but actually it seems

1918
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:30,640
like the freemen. The freemen are more like like they

1919
01:49:30,720 --> 01:49:34,560
think there's prophecies and there's divine miracles. You remember, because

1920
01:49:35,000 --> 01:49:40,840
because Silgar keeps saying so miracle, right, So yeah, they

1921
01:49:40,920 --> 01:49:42,439
believe in the miraculous.

1922
01:49:42,199 --> 01:49:45,640
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, But but there are all these different

1923
01:49:45,760 --> 01:49:50,039
takes on what God is. The Benajesrits seem to look

1924
01:49:50,079 --> 01:49:56,199
at the universe as a giant tool, uh to try

1925
01:49:56,239 --> 01:50:00,520
to use to ascend to more power over the known universe.

1926
01:50:00,640 --> 01:50:02,760
So that would be kind of almost an you know,

1927
01:50:02,920 --> 01:50:06,520
gnostic possibly with a deist God at the end of

1928
01:50:06,600 --> 01:50:09,000
the At the top of the ladder, I.

1929
01:50:09,039 --> 01:50:13,119
Speaker 4: Should mention that actually there's a in the Dune universe.

1930
01:50:13,159 --> 01:50:17,159
There's actually a plethora of religious traditions. I don't know

1931
01:50:17,199 --> 01:50:18,960
if we're ever supposed to think one of them is true.

1932
01:50:19,000 --> 01:50:23,600
But in the future there's an apologist for Socratic Christianity.

1933
01:50:23,600 --> 01:50:26,159
So they actually gets an apologetics. This is how crazy

1934
01:50:26,159 --> 01:50:29,479
it is, Like he'll reference another desert followers and apologetics.

1935
01:50:29,520 --> 01:50:32,079
It's weird. But there's some sort of form of Christianity

1936
01:50:32,199 --> 01:50:36,680
that's I think different than the Orange Caloic Bible, which

1937
01:50:36,720 --> 01:50:40,720
is called Socratic Christianity. And so there's citations from this

1938
01:50:40,920 --> 01:50:44,399
book of the the Socratic apologist.

1939
01:50:45,520 --> 01:50:56,319
Speaker 6: Anyway, Wild Wild speaking of speaking of substances to accelerate

1940
01:50:57,039 --> 01:51:00,239
your your visions of past president if you here, if

1941
01:51:00,279 --> 01:51:03,399
you want your vision of yourself in the future to

1942
01:51:03,560 --> 01:51:07,600
be supercharged, spice milanged.

1943
01:51:07,279 --> 01:51:10,479
Speaker 3: And UH and and and space acidd out of this world.

1944
01:51:10,520 --> 01:51:13,680
If you want to become the King Worm, the worm

1945
01:51:13,800 --> 01:51:18,920
Boy and and ascend to the highest level of human possibility,

1946
01:51:19,319 --> 01:51:20,960
you gotta take care of yourself. You gotta take care

1947
01:51:20,960 --> 01:51:23,800
of your health. It is very important to UH to

1948
01:51:23,880 --> 01:51:26,880
get that body functioning right, to get your hormones functioning right.

1949
01:51:27,520 --> 01:51:30,800
That that true spice millange is in that in that

1950
01:51:31,039 --> 01:51:34,800
chad mode, one hundred percent natural pre workout from my

1951
01:51:34,880 --> 01:51:36,199
friends over at chalk dot co.

1952
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:38,840
Speaker 4: Chad is kind of like spice.

1953
01:51:39,199 --> 01:51:44,000
Speaker 3: This is essentially like the spice mirage. You can I've got,

1954
01:51:44,199 --> 01:51:47,159
I've got a nice This one's almost full. This one's

1955
01:51:47,159 --> 01:51:49,560
almost full of that spice millange. But yeah, you can

1956
01:51:49,640 --> 01:51:51,640
hit up our friends over at chalk dot com c

1957
01:51:51,840 --> 01:51:53,680
h o q dot com. Get that tongue Cat one

1958
01:51:53,760 --> 01:51:56,960
hundred extract. I'm a big fan of the Male Vitality Stack,

1959
01:51:57,680 --> 01:52:00,640
the Daily, the Tongue Cat, the Action to two point zero.

1960
01:52:01,159 --> 01:52:05,840
All those are fantastic substances loaded with spice millage straight

1961
01:52:05,920 --> 01:52:11,800
from Oracus organic spice, ethically harvested, ethically harvested. No worms

1962
01:52:12,279 --> 01:52:15,720
have been harmed in the harvesting of this spice. Head

1963
01:52:15,760 --> 01:52:17,880
over there to chalk dot com. Use that code Big

1964
01:52:18,159 --> 01:52:20,439
five to three Life, Big fifty three Life to get

1965
01:52:20,479 --> 01:52:25,079
fifty three percent off all subscriptions for life. You can

1966
01:52:25,079 --> 01:52:27,359
get a subscription to where every twenty eight days they

1967
01:52:27,479 --> 01:52:30,000
drop off a nice bottle of that tong Cat one hundred.

1968
01:52:30,319 --> 01:52:32,640
I take two to three of these. Every once in

1969
01:52:32,680 --> 01:52:34,359
a while I'll forget, but I usually take two to

1970
01:52:34,399 --> 01:52:36,000
three of these a day. I'm a huge fan of

1971
01:52:36,039 --> 01:52:39,239
the Tongcat one hundred of the daily as well. To

1972
01:52:39,279 --> 01:52:42,039
get your body functioning right how it's designed to function.

1973
01:52:42,600 --> 01:52:46,239
Chalk dot com, Choq dot com, use the code big

1974
01:52:46,399 --> 01:52:48,439
five to three Life and you will get fifty three

1975
01:52:48,520 --> 01:52:52,319
percent off all subscriptions for life. Lock that in because

1976
01:52:52,359 --> 01:52:54,800
that code's gonna go away. I was talking to my buddy,

1977
01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:57,479
the owner of Chalk, who's a great guy. It's an

1978
01:52:57,479 --> 01:53:00,600
awesome company. But yeah, he's he's like, we gotta, we

1979
01:53:00,640 --> 01:53:02,600
gotta back off. We got to back off that big

1980
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:05,239
fifty three. So it's gonna be dropping, guys, it's gonna

1981
01:53:05,239 --> 01:53:08,039
be dropping down to like forty four forty four. So

1982
01:53:08,119 --> 01:53:10,439
that big fifty three Life, you can lock in that

1983
01:53:10,640 --> 01:53:13,279
deal if you get on that this month. I think

1984
01:53:13,399 --> 01:53:15,800
I think next month we're going back down to that

1985
01:53:15,960 --> 01:53:18,760
forty four life. So use that coupon code Big five

1986
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:21,159
to three Life fifty three percent off all subscriptions at

1987
01:53:21,199 --> 01:53:25,199
chopp dot com for life. Also, we got a super

1988
01:53:25,279 --> 01:53:27,479
chat here from Big Boss ten dollars through super chat

1989
01:53:27,560 --> 01:53:29,319
on YouTube says have all have you all heard about

1990
01:53:29,359 --> 01:53:33,760
this new syop group that's the first to use four letters,

1991
01:53:33,840 --> 01:53:38,680
that's backed by the elites. Oh man, it's called the icup.

1992
01:53:40,479 --> 01:53:44,399
Speaker 1: Ah, whoa, what.

1993
01:53:45,920 --> 01:53:50,399
Speaker 3: Bro I've been gotten with that one since Uh it's

1994
01:53:50,520 --> 01:53:55,000
the I cup icup. That's like that's fourth grade man,

1995
01:53:55,239 --> 01:53:57,640
that's uh back back when the power range.

1996
01:53:57,640 --> 01:53:59,680
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I need to hear a these nuts.

1997
01:53:59,760 --> 01:54:04,560
Joe looking there somewhere like remember D's nuts?

1998
01:54:05,319 --> 01:54:08,439
Speaker 3: No Jay, Oh, come on, now, what are you even

1999
01:54:08,479 --> 01:54:09,000
talking about?

2000
01:54:10,800 --> 01:54:17,159
Speaker 4: I I'm sending you here. There is a there's two

2001
01:54:17,199 --> 01:54:20,600
different versions of a fan edit. This is like Megan

2002
01:54:20,680 --> 01:54:22,960
nerd tier stuff. Are you ready for it? I'm ready?

2003
01:54:23,119 --> 01:54:23,640
Speaker 3: Are ready?

2004
01:54:23,880 --> 01:54:26,000
Speaker 4: So, because there were so many complaints about the David

2005
01:54:26,079 --> 01:54:29,319
Lynch version, one of the problems was that he didn't

2006
01:54:29,399 --> 01:54:33,960
have final cut, and so the studio made them cut

2007
01:54:34,199 --> 01:54:38,159
his version down to under two hours for the theatrical release,

2008
01:54:38,239 --> 01:54:41,680
which he felt like, under two hours, I think that

2009
01:54:41,800 --> 01:54:44,439
I think the theatrical release is right around or something

2010
01:54:44,520 --> 01:54:44,680
like that.

2011
01:54:44,840 --> 01:54:48,279
Speaker 3: So that's crazy because danve he got like three hours

2012
01:54:48,319 --> 01:54:49,920
for each film. He's got six.

2013
01:54:50,199 --> 01:54:53,520
Speaker 4: Well that's crazy exactly. But so David Lynch was mad

2014
01:54:53,560 --> 01:54:56,439
because he felt like nobody would understand the story, and

2015
01:54:56,520 --> 01:54:58,119
of course a lot of the audience at the time

2016
01:54:58,159 --> 01:55:00,840
in the eighties felt like no body could understand what

2017
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:04,520
was going on, and they didn't. Even with the Princess

2018
01:55:04,600 --> 01:55:09,600
Erilon narration, they still couldn't get it. So some super

2019
01:55:09,680 --> 01:55:12,880
nerds put together what they call the Dune Fan Edit.

2020
01:55:13,479 --> 01:55:16,640
It's an almost three hour version with all the deleted scenes,

2021
01:55:16,800 --> 01:55:19,880
and there's another there's a separate version which has the

2022
01:55:20,000 --> 01:55:24,039
storyboards that show the butlery and hot So if you

2023
01:55:24,119 --> 01:55:26,479
really want to nerd super nerd version, you can get

2024
01:55:26,479 --> 01:55:30,800
a torrent of the four hour Dune which has all

2025
01:55:30,880 --> 01:55:31,039
of that.

2026
01:55:31,479 --> 01:55:34,439
Speaker 3: Well, Jay say, we're Jay's We're gonna watch this right now.

2027
01:55:34,479 --> 01:55:37,000
It's going to be a nine hour stream. First we

2028
01:55:37,199 --> 01:55:40,319
talk about Dune for two hours, and then we're gonna

2029
01:55:40,359 --> 01:55:43,720
so we're just gonna make soyjack faces about the nine

2030
01:55:43,800 --> 01:55:45,680
hour version.

2031
01:55:45,439 --> 01:55:49,319
Speaker 4: Of So here is the three hour version for you

2032
01:55:49,600 --> 01:55:53,520
without the storyboards, but there's also the four hours version

2033
01:55:53,560 --> 01:55:56,880
with the storybok. So I'm like a super David Lynch

2034
01:55:57,119 --> 01:56:01,199
Dune nerd. I had to go find the full version.

2035
01:56:01,840 --> 01:56:04,000
Speaker 3: Man, would you would you say you like the Lynch

2036
01:56:04,079 --> 01:56:08,279
version better than the DENI believe the.

2037
01:56:08,399 --> 01:56:11,359
Speaker 4: Version not better. I mean it's it's obviously, you know,

2038
01:56:11,520 --> 01:56:14,680
so many levels of superior film with the production and

2039
01:56:14,760 --> 01:56:17,159
the because he has so much more time to tell

2040
01:56:17,319 --> 01:56:19,399
so much more of the story. There are elements of

2041
01:56:19,439 --> 01:56:22,479
the David Lynch version that are not in the Dennis

2042
01:56:22,680 --> 01:56:27,199
version that I do like, so DENI I'll never I'll

2043
01:56:27,239 --> 01:56:29,479
never say it right. If I'm in an interview, if

2044
01:56:29,520 --> 01:56:32,359
I'm talking to Dennis, I'll call you dentist. What's up?

2045
01:56:32,399 --> 01:56:34,439
He's gonna say that, don't care?

2046
01:56:35,239 --> 01:56:40,880
Speaker 3: Wow, Wow, Absolutely no respect for the the greatest, greatest

2047
01:56:40,920 --> 01:56:45,520
filmmaker you ever be. Some people do, Some people love.

2048
01:56:45,720 --> 01:56:47,439
I mean, I thought it were great, man, I thought

2049
01:56:47,680 --> 01:56:50,359
some of the better sci fi movies out there, for sure.

2050
01:56:50,439 --> 01:56:53,560
But some people are just like, this is the masterpiece

2051
01:56:53,640 --> 01:56:56,119
of all masterpieces, the greatest films.

2052
01:56:56,159 --> 01:56:59,359
Speaker 4: I would say they're masterpieces. I think he I'm impressed.

2053
01:56:59,439 --> 01:57:02,119
I really do feel like it's we haven't seen movies

2054
01:57:02,479 --> 01:57:04,439
like this since Lord of the Rings or something like that.

2055
01:57:04,680 --> 01:57:09,039
Speaker 3: I mean that well, the second one was just visually,

2056
01:57:10,039 --> 01:57:11,760
I mean even I think there were I think the

2057
01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:15,279
storytelling was pretty solid. Could have been a little bit better,

2058
01:57:16,159 --> 01:57:18,199
just little details like well, how come I didn't know

2059
01:57:18,239 --> 01:57:19,960
about the butlerry and jihad and I had to have

2060
01:57:20,079 --> 01:57:22,720
some super nerd tell me about it. Little details like

2061
01:57:22,760 --> 01:57:26,439
that could have been improved, but overall the story was engrossing.

2062
01:57:27,079 --> 01:57:30,079
It was you left you thinking different people have different

2063
01:57:30,119 --> 01:57:32,119
takes on it and argue about it, which is you know,

2064
01:57:32,239 --> 01:57:34,600
really it's a sign of the sign of a good film.

2065
01:57:35,199 --> 01:57:38,439
And I mean visually it was. I found myself sometimes

2066
01:57:39,159 --> 01:57:42,159
getting lost in the story of like like not even

2067
01:57:42,159 --> 01:57:43,920
paying attention to what's going on because I'm just looking

2068
01:57:43,920 --> 01:57:47,239
at the cinematography thinking, oh, wow, that's a crazy shot.

2069
01:57:47,760 --> 01:57:51,439
You know, how did they do this? So I for

2070
01:57:51,560 --> 01:57:54,920
the second film. I've only seen both of them one time,

2071
01:57:54,960 --> 01:57:56,720
but yeah, I definitely look forward to seeing the second

2072
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:57,159
one again.

2073
01:57:57,760 --> 01:57:59,720
Speaker 4: Yeah. I really would like you to watch the lynch

2074
01:57:59,760 --> 01:58:03,119
first and contrast some of the elements, and then you'll

2075
01:58:03,119 --> 01:58:06,720
see too where I think Dennis included some of the

2076
01:58:06,800 --> 01:58:07,479
spirit of the lunch.

2077
01:58:07,560 --> 01:58:15,479
Speaker 3: Maybe Deny, Deny, Dennis Denny. It's like a tick anytime

2078
01:58:15,600 --> 01:58:16,720
somebody says that you have to.

2079
01:58:18,199 --> 01:58:25,000
Speaker 4: You're the spurgy like nerd thing you pronounce his.

2080
01:58:25,079 --> 01:58:30,680
Speaker 3: Name, there's but there, there's like a an absolute but

2081
01:58:30,920 --> 01:58:33,439
Leary and ghat is going to be necessary to remove

2082
01:58:33,680 --> 01:58:37,680
all of these video essays from these Dune Part two

2083
01:58:37,800 --> 01:58:40,680
nerds who are just flipping out about how great the

2084
01:58:40,760 --> 01:58:42,600
movie is every time I open YouTube now, because I

2085
01:58:42,640 --> 01:58:46,159
watched a few people a few of other people's like

2086
01:58:46,239 --> 01:58:50,920
analysis or in summaries, and now all I get is

2087
01:58:51,079 --> 01:58:57,119
just recommendations of Dune Part two video essay. This changes everything.

2088
01:58:58,039 --> 01:59:01,039
Dune part two sci fi will never be the same.

2089
01:59:01,359 --> 01:59:04,039
It's every single suggestion on YouTube now. So I'm about

2090
01:59:04,039 --> 01:59:05,600
to do a but lerry and Jihat and all you

2091
01:59:05,720 --> 01:59:07,199
video on videos.

2092
01:59:08,960 --> 01:59:11,039
Speaker 4: Anybody said they didn't like it, it isn't. I mean,

2093
01:59:11,920 --> 01:59:13,760
I take that. I saw one guy writing that he

2094
01:59:13,760 --> 01:59:16,720
didn't think it was that good, but pretty much everybody

2095
01:59:16,760 --> 01:59:18,720
else is pretty pretty.

2096
01:59:18,760 --> 01:59:20,279
Speaker 3: I have a friend who told me on Twitter today

2097
01:59:20,399 --> 01:59:22,720
that he's just like Chiney ruined it for me, and

2098
01:59:22,840 --> 01:59:24,479
it was just, you know, he he didn't like it.

2099
01:59:24,560 --> 01:59:27,359
He thought it was too much you know, space. He

2100
01:59:27,439 --> 01:59:31,239
said he thought there was too much modern political uh

2101
01:59:32,159 --> 01:59:35,000
stuff underlying it. But I don't know, I kind of disagree.

2102
01:59:35,039 --> 01:59:38,000
I think Chawnny Chohanny wasn't an awful character. I mean,

2103
01:59:38,079 --> 01:59:40,880
she wasn't. She wasn't like screaming, annoying.

2104
01:59:41,039 --> 01:59:43,279
Speaker 4: The rest of it doesn't, I mean most a lot

2105
01:59:43,359 --> 01:59:45,479
of I mean, it's pretty pretty faithful to the book.

2106
01:59:45,600 --> 01:59:47,880
They just deviate with the chawn character. That's it.

2107
01:59:48,279 --> 01:59:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like when you when you see her for

2108
01:59:50,000 --> 01:59:51,720
what she is. She's supposed to be the character that

2109
01:59:51,800 --> 01:59:56,199
the audience uh identifies with. And I thought it was

2110
01:59:56,279 --> 01:59:58,199
kind of funny that at the end the character that's

2111
01:59:58,199 --> 02:00:03,680
supposed to represent the audience is left alone crying, rage, crying,

2112
02:00:04,279 --> 02:00:07,319
trying to summon a worm to hang out alone on her.

2113
02:00:07,479 --> 02:00:09,640
Speaker 4: Well, I'll give you a one little nugget too. There's

2114
02:00:09,640 --> 02:00:13,239
another exactly, there's another reason why he might have done

2115
02:00:13,279 --> 02:00:14,199
that with her character.

2116
02:00:15,279 --> 02:00:15,520
Speaker 3: Is that.

2117
02:00:17,399 --> 02:00:19,600
Speaker 4: In this in the in doing Messiah, what's going to

2118
02:00:19,680 --> 02:00:22,239
happen is, without giving it too much away, there's going

2119
02:00:22,279 --> 02:00:30,600
to be an intrigue between Eralon and Chawny, where at

2120
02:00:30,680 --> 02:00:34,520
the behest of the Reverend Mother, it's all about who

2121
02:00:34,960 --> 02:00:36,359
will have Paul's offspring.

2122
02:00:36,479 --> 02:00:38,479
Speaker 3: Ah, Yeah, he's got a sire a child for the

2123
02:00:38,720 --> 02:00:39,600
Bena Jesuits.

2124
02:00:39,760 --> 02:00:45,000
Speaker 4: So the Reverend Mother gets Princess Erolon to give Chawni

2125
02:00:45,159 --> 02:00:49,159
secretly in an mortivation so she doesn't give birth, and

2126
02:00:49,239 --> 02:00:53,159
the hope is that Erolin will get pregnant and then

2127
02:00:53,439 --> 02:00:55,760
the Benny Jesuit, the Reverend Mother we be able to

2128
02:00:55,800 --> 02:00:59,760
control Paul's offspring. But Paul eventually figures this plot out,

2129
02:01:00,199 --> 02:01:04,800
and uh yeah, so so Chawny. So Chawnie has to

2130
02:01:04,920 --> 02:01:09,600
play this role of getting screwed over, not because of Paul.

2131
02:01:09,720 --> 02:01:14,159
Paul doesn't really do it, but Paul figure out what's

2132
02:01:14,199 --> 02:01:17,520
going on. And Iroline is also not a villain. She

2133
02:01:17,600 --> 02:01:18,600
doesn't end up being villain.

2134
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:21,680
Speaker 3: Well, and you know, I forgot to mention this too.

2135
02:01:21,880 --> 02:01:25,039
This is another fascinating thing about this film is that

2136
02:01:25,119 --> 02:01:29,600
it's openly anti infanticide, right, I mean, it's you know there,

2137
02:01:30,560 --> 02:01:35,399
life starts at conception in the Dune universe. Apparently you

2138
02:01:35,520 --> 02:01:39,359
got the fetus is one of the main characters. Now,

2139
02:01:39,560 --> 02:01:41,720
of course the fetus I guess later becomes evil and

2140
02:01:41,800 --> 02:01:45,079
she you know, she goes nuts. But yeah, the Aliyah

2141
02:01:46,279 --> 02:01:49,439
and and and Jessica. This is a it's a very

2142
02:01:49,720 --> 02:01:55,159
pro life film in a lot of ways. Hierarchy is inevitable,

2143
02:01:56,039 --> 02:02:00,840
Monarchy is natural. Everybody craves a king and a careismatic leader.

2144
02:02:01,680 --> 02:02:03,640
It seems like a natural thing for people in the

2145
02:02:03,720 --> 02:02:09,800
New World to uh crazy, to look for a messiah.

2146
02:02:10,479 --> 02:02:12,880
So there you are certain aspects of it that, you know,

2147
02:02:12,960 --> 02:02:16,920
you really can't get away from the Christian worldview and

2148
02:02:17,000 --> 02:02:24,399
from the truth of even in fiction. So yeah, man,

2149
02:02:24,680 --> 02:02:26,319
this was this is a fun one. I'm glad you

2150
02:02:26,399 --> 02:02:28,520
got me to watch to watch them, I wouldn't have

2151
02:02:29,039 --> 02:02:31,399
I didn't even realize Dune Part one came out. It

2152
02:02:31,520 --> 02:02:32,199
just kind of skipped me.

2153
02:02:32,279 --> 02:02:32,479
Speaker 4: It was.

2154
02:02:32,560 --> 02:02:35,279
Speaker 3: It was off my radar, and I'm glad. I'm glad

2155
02:02:35,319 --> 02:02:36,439
you got me to watch these men.

2156
02:02:37,399 --> 02:02:40,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, do watch the David Lunch one sometimes I

2157
02:02:40,720 --> 02:02:41,159
want to see.

2158
02:02:43,319 --> 02:02:45,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm gonna get the full version with all the

2159
02:02:46,119 --> 02:02:48,439
all the deleted scenes and everything, but I I really

2160
02:02:48,520 --> 02:02:50,600
want to watch. I want to rewatch part one of

2161
02:02:50,680 --> 02:02:52,520
this and then once part two comes out on like

2162
02:02:52,560 --> 02:02:53,920
a Blu ray or something, I'd like to.

2163
02:02:55,840 --> 02:02:57,079
Speaker 4: Thanks for having me. It was a great chat. I

2164
02:02:57,119 --> 02:02:59,319
had a lot of fun. I was able to nerd

2165
02:02:59,399 --> 02:03:01,039
out on doing here. Yeah.

2166
02:03:01,119 --> 02:03:03,079
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was fun man, well worth well worth the

2167
02:03:03,159 --> 02:03:04,680
wait for sure. I had to wait a little bit

2168
02:03:04,720 --> 02:03:06,920
to see the second one. Let me make sure we

2169
02:03:07,000 --> 02:03:10,319
got all the super chats red here ah that I

2170
02:03:10,399 --> 02:03:12,600
saw one more just pop through Big Bosses, I hear.

2171
02:03:12,640 --> 02:03:16,319
It's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm and flap

2172
02:03:16,439 --> 02:03:19,960
Jaws space with the tuning fork does a roblink on

2173
02:03:20,439 --> 02:03:24,560
Hara Kiki Rock, I need scissors sixty one. Okay, that's

2174
02:03:24,600 --> 02:03:28,720
like total schitzo. There's like a bunch of references there

2175
02:03:28,800 --> 02:03:31,760
to something. I hear. It's amazing.

2176
02:03:32,399 --> 02:03:35,039
Speaker 4: It's like a dune like master PhD and like he's

2177
02:03:35,039 --> 02:03:36,640
talking about like stuff.

2178
02:03:36,920 --> 02:03:39,159
Speaker 3: I think this guy took too much of that spice Millage.

2179
02:03:39,239 --> 02:03:43,039
I think he's I think he's let me spice Millange.

2180
02:03:43,800 --> 02:03:46,600
I hear it's amazing when the famous purple stuffed worm

2181
02:03:46,680 --> 02:03:49,720
and flap Jaws Space with the tuning fork does a

2182
02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:53,119
roblink on Hara Kiri Rock, I need scissors sixty one.

2183
02:03:53,920 --> 02:03:56,880
Speaker 4: Well, but maybe he's got a PhD in this.

2184
02:03:57,680 --> 02:03:59,920
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, there's probably got twenty references that I

2185
02:04:00,119 --> 02:04:00,960
have no idea.

2186
02:04:02,239 --> 02:04:03,239
Speaker 4: So here's the whole thing.

2187
02:04:03,560 --> 02:04:09,960
Speaker 3: So use the spoon you must. I mean the aesthetics

2188
02:04:10,000 --> 02:04:12,039
of that too. I mean, they got a nice aesthetic

2189
02:04:12,119 --> 02:04:14,119
on the covers there. But I think I think the film,

2190
02:04:14,119 --> 02:04:20,000
I think overall, Denny the New the aesthetics of the

2191
02:04:20,079 --> 02:04:23,239
film really carried it, you know. I mean, he he

2192
02:04:23,319 --> 02:04:24,880
did a great job with this one. I look forward

2193
02:04:24,880 --> 02:04:27,279
to seeing what he does next. I hope. I kind

2194
02:04:27,319 --> 02:04:28,680
of wish you would just leave it where it is,

2195
02:04:28,800 --> 02:04:33,479
with chatty soyjacking, crying, rage, crying at the worm at

2196
02:04:33,479 --> 02:04:40,960
the end, everyone else, Yeah, the atheist is left crying alone, hurt, rage,

2197
02:04:41,359 --> 02:04:43,760
raging at the world, where everyone else goes to have

2198
02:04:43,840 --> 02:04:48,359
their awesome jihad and build their green planet. But I'm sure,

2199
02:04:48,520 --> 02:04:51,319
I'm sure that'll I'm sure he'll wrap it up differently

2200
02:04:51,479 --> 02:04:54,520
than that. But uh, yeah, Jay, maybe next week can

2201
02:04:54,600 --> 02:04:56,239
do uh, we can do some of these, some of

2202
02:04:56,279 --> 02:04:59,520
these cults that wasn't the Mother God cult. That'll be funny.

2203
02:05:00,119 --> 02:05:02,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, we'll do true detective and cults.

2204
02:05:02,239 --> 02:05:04,520
Speaker 3: Next. Wait, Big Boss, it's he's there's a metal Metal

2205
02:05:04,560 --> 02:05:07,359
Gear Solid references all right, you got me on that one. Man.

2206
02:05:07,479 --> 02:05:10,359
I didn't get to play the original Metal Gear Solids.

2207
02:05:10,720 --> 02:05:12,920
I didn't have a PS two. Man, I was I

2208
02:05:13,039 --> 02:05:15,399
was a I was a pole boy. I got a

2209
02:05:15,560 --> 02:05:18,720
I got an N sixty four later, but I didn't

2210
02:05:18,720 --> 02:05:23,039
I didn't have that the PS two. Big Boss. Apparently,

2211
02:05:23,079 --> 02:05:25,840
Big but Big Boss also maybe you had a little

2212
02:05:25,840 --> 02:05:27,399
too much of that spice m lunch tonight.

2213
02:05:28,439 --> 02:05:30,520
Speaker 4: This is the novel that will be fitting for you.

2214
02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:34,760
Speaker 3: Heretics of dude, I'm sure a lot of the Dune

2215
02:05:34,760 --> 02:05:37,159
fans are gonna call me a total You're a total

2216
02:05:37,199 --> 02:05:38,079
heretic Nube.

2217
02:05:38,079 --> 02:05:41,520
Speaker 4: You know you're dunic exactly. It's like if you don't

2218
02:05:41,520 --> 02:05:45,039
get the PhD NERD level Dune references, right, you become

2219
02:05:45,239 --> 02:05:47,199
a heretic of Dan. Yeah.

2220
02:05:47,960 --> 02:05:50,119
Speaker 3: One of my favorite parts of doing this review though,

2221
02:05:50,279 --> 02:05:56,000
was just reading some of the tweets of like some

2222
02:05:56,159 --> 02:05:58,119
of the some of these tweets were hilarious, Like one

2223
02:05:58,159 --> 02:06:00,119
of them has the the bell curve, the eye at

2224
02:06:00,159 --> 02:06:04,199
the IQ bell curve and at the bottom is here.

2225
02:06:04,319 --> 02:06:05,800
I'll pull this one. Let's see if I can pull

2226
02:06:05,840 --> 02:06:08,880
this one up. The bottom is the bottom of the

2227
02:06:08,920 --> 02:06:12,880
bell curve, the point one two. Let's find this.

2228
02:06:15,560 --> 02:06:16,119
Speaker 4: The low IQ.

2229
02:06:17,000 --> 02:06:19,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, the low IQ. I'm sure you saw. It's like

2230
02:06:19,640 --> 02:06:22,319
the low IQ is Paul is the Lassan al Gayib.

2231
02:06:23,159 --> 02:06:26,640
The middle of the bell curve, the one hundred IQ

2232
02:06:26,880 --> 02:06:28,720
is No, Paul is just a man. And the point

2233
02:06:28,760 --> 02:06:31,359
of the story is the danger of prophecy. And then

2234
02:06:31,439 --> 02:06:33,600
the you know, one thirty to one forty five and

2235
02:06:33,760 --> 02:06:36,479
up IQ is Paul is the Lassan al Gayib.

2236
02:06:37,560 --> 02:06:38,520
Speaker 4: That's what I was arguing.

2237
02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:39,199
Speaker 3: I got it.

2238
02:06:39,840 --> 02:06:42,560
Speaker 4: That's it. I'm on that right side. That's what I

2239
02:06:42,680 --> 02:06:42,920
was saying.

2240
02:06:42,960 --> 02:06:43,359
Speaker 3: That's right.

2241
02:06:43,479 --> 02:06:45,279
Speaker 4: Can you send me that meme? I actually I want that.

2242
02:06:45,439 --> 02:06:46,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, this meme is awesome.

2243
02:06:46,800 --> 02:06:47,840
Speaker 4: I'm an actually cool one.

2244
02:06:48,840 --> 02:06:53,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'll send it to you on Twitter. That's I'm

2245
02:06:53,079 --> 02:06:54,760
not gonna pull it up because I got to create

2246
02:06:54,800 --> 02:06:57,279
a new scene in OBS and I want to pull

2247
02:06:57,279 --> 02:06:59,720
it up. But anyways, oh you big. It's in the chat,

2248
02:07:00,279 --> 02:07:02,199
chad Nerds. In the chat, make sure share the video.

2249
02:07:02,560 --> 02:07:05,359
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2260
02:07:37,760 --> 02:07:40,520
lot of it's even beyond organic. That Tongucat one hundred

2261
02:07:40,560 --> 02:07:43,279
is wildcrafted so get yourself some of that chalk it

2262
02:07:43,399 --> 02:07:46,800
must flow. That chad mode is awesome. Also, the Tongcat

2263
02:07:46,840 --> 02:07:49,079
one hundred and the Shilagit I take those every day.

2264
02:07:49,600 --> 02:07:53,720
So everybody watching comment down below tell us how wrong

2265
02:07:53,800 --> 02:07:57,600
we were, how Paul's not this leisan Al gayib or

2266
02:07:57,880 --> 02:08:00,800
why he is the lissan Al gayib or why doctor

2267
02:08:00,880 --> 02:08:03,880
Phil definitely should have been, and that you agree with

2268
02:08:04,039 --> 02:08:06,960
us that doctor Phil is in the Son all guy,

2269
02:08:07,000 --> 02:08:11,680
you and should have played the Emperor. Yes, yeah, big,

2270
02:08:11,800 --> 02:08:15,680
it's stay stay, stay away from them worms and we'll

2271
02:08:15,720 --> 02:08:16,600
see you guys next time.

2272
02:08:17,159 --> 02:08:18,039
Speaker 4: All right, later, doc,