WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:00.200 You. 2 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:05.919 Chilly Effect is sponsored by Wallstreet, Window dot Com and listeners. 3 00:00:05.759 --> 00:00:11.119 Liking yeahs Agordo and Omedia. 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:17.879 Twenty eighth day of April twenty twenty six, and where 5 00:00:17.879 --> 00:00:20.679 did the month of April go? Allegedly according to that 6 00:00:20.760 --> 00:00:24.280 thing we call a calendar, This the Ocelli Effect, Wednesday, 7 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:26.839 hump day, middle of the week, Wolden's Day, whatever you 8 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:27.519 want to call it. 9 00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:29.480 Here we are and we're live. 10 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:32.240 But most of you, and I do mean the overwhelming 11 00:00:32.280 --> 00:00:36.280 majority of you, will likely catch the podcast at a 12 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.399 later time, so I'm just noting for you when the 13 00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:43.320 recording was done. Anyway, you're not gonna hear a lot 14 00:00:43.320 --> 00:00:45.920 out of me tonight because I am happy, of course 15 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.679 to have Larry Hancock with us once again, the author 16 00:00:48.679 --> 00:00:49.399 of many books. 17 00:00:49.399 --> 00:00:50.280 I'm not going to. 18 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:53.079 Give you the full list, because you could go to 19 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.000 one of the hyperlinks in the show notes tonight and 20 00:00:56.039 --> 00:01:00.280 go and look at all of Larry's work, which is online. Oh, 21 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.159 by the way, the Oswald Puzzle, the paperback, the updated 22 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:09.879 version is available, I believe, and we'll be available for 23 00:01:10.000 --> 00:01:14.040 Kendall sometime soon. But either way, the actual physical book 24 00:01:14.120 --> 00:01:15.040 is what I recommend. 25 00:01:15.120 --> 00:01:16.319 And oh, by the way. 26 00:01:16.439 --> 00:01:19.400 All of Larry Hancock's books that you see listed on 27 00:01:19.439 --> 00:01:23.359 Amazon or on many other fine sites out there. Guess what, 28 00:01:23.560 --> 00:01:26.079 I have them all on my shelf, and not just 29 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:29.280 because Larry's a friend of mine, but because I highly 30 00:01:29.400 --> 00:01:34.200 recommend all of them. His co authors are excellent as well. 31 00:01:34.400 --> 00:01:37.359 Never forget them. Of course. We recently had David Boylin 32 00:01:37.480 --> 00:01:41.120 on and that was great, as we did the discussion 33 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.879 about the updated Oswald Puzzle, and I think that was 34 00:01:44.920 --> 00:01:47.959 an interesting interview for sure, and we got to hear 35 00:01:48.040 --> 00:01:50.760 from David a bit, which is always great. Not like 36 00:01:50.799 --> 00:01:53.879 I don't like hearing from Larry, though, because if I 37 00:01:54.159 --> 00:01:56.840 didn't like hearing from Larry, I think we would have 38 00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:58.439 stopped doing this couple of years ago. 39 00:01:58.519 --> 00:01:59.439 But Larry's been on. 40 00:01:59.439 --> 00:02:04.879 Here fairly regularly for god, how many years now, Larry, 41 00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:06.560 how many years have you been on the show with 42 00:02:06.599 --> 00:02:06.920 me here? 43 00:02:08.479 --> 00:02:12.560 I would, I would say regularly at least five, and 44 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:16.360 then probably another three or more before. 45 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:18.560 That, So it although it was probably close to ten. 46 00:02:18.479 --> 00:02:22.960 Years, yeah, conservatively as tunning as that seems right. 47 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:25.560 Because I'm thinking your first appearance on here might have 48 00:02:25.639 --> 00:02:28.919 been in twenty fourteen, and then, like you said, you know, 49 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:31.439 here and there, a new book came out. I wanted 50 00:02:31.479 --> 00:02:35.080 Larry on stuff like that, and then of course we 51 00:02:35.159 --> 00:02:38.199 did the entire collection of Larry's work at that time 52 00:02:39.240 --> 00:02:42.560 and did book by book, you know, a discussion about 53 00:02:42.599 --> 00:02:46.120 each one, you know, from someone would have talked all 54 00:02:46.159 --> 00:02:49.840 the way to unidentified. You know that's about UAP's they 55 00:02:49.879 --> 00:02:52.159 call him now, and I didn't say UFO that time. 56 00:02:53.159 --> 00:02:56.199 You know, the discussion of the National security state and 57 00:02:56.240 --> 00:02:59.560 its reactions to many other things like the assassination of 58 00:02:59.599 --> 00:03:03.240 doctor King. We've obviously had discussions about the assassination of 59 00:03:03.319 --> 00:03:06.919 OURFK Senior let's call him at this point, since Junior 60 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:11.000 is out there doing something else aside from what his 61 00:03:11.159 --> 00:03:17.319 father's political legacy was, for sure, but anyway, opinions aside RFK, MLK, 62 00:03:17.520 --> 00:03:22.400 JFK certainly lancer discussions throughout the years, Larry a bunch 63 00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:26.719 of different things and and a bit of history, some 64 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:29.319 of it in real time, some of it from the past, 65 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.159 and sometimes mix and match, including various discussions on one 66 00:03:35.199 --> 00:03:38.840 of your best books. Absolutely and best is saying something 67 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:42.919 considering Like I said, unlike most authors, I recommend. 68 00:03:42.520 --> 00:03:43.319 All of your work. 69 00:03:43.840 --> 00:03:50.960 But you know, books like Creating chaos, surprise attack, shadow warfare. Wow, 70 00:03:51.120 --> 00:03:54.319 those weren't about assassinations particularly, but. 71 00:03:54.400 --> 00:03:56.360 They did include assassinations. 72 00:03:57.360 --> 00:04:01.479 I think the unidentified didn't include assassination in a technical sense, 73 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:03.520 but most. 74 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:05.479 You would be the only one, I think. 75 00:04:05.319 --> 00:04:07.479 Right, I mean off the top of my head, you know. 76 00:04:07.639 --> 00:04:09.599 And who knows, maybe one of these days we're going 77 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:13.280 to get a book on horticulture or you know, ham radio, 78 00:04:13.879 --> 00:04:16.759 but or some other kind of broadcast medium. 79 00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:19.079 You know, Larry might surprise. 80 00:04:18.639 --> 00:04:21.199 Us and tell us all about the history of I 81 00:04:21.199 --> 00:04:25.360 don't know, shortwave and AM radio, but if he does, 82 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:27.759 it'll be a solid piece of work because history and 83 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:32.439 historiography are definitely strengths. And oh wow, that word that 84 00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:35.480 we always hear from Larry, which I love is context 85 00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.920 regarding historical events and characters in history. You get all 86 00:04:39.959 --> 00:04:43.759 of that with Larry Hancock's writing. But tonight's focus is 87 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:47.399 actually on something that has come up, continues to come up, 88 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.800 and especially has been out there in the zeitgeist in 89 00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:56.560 my opinion, at least post nine eleven reality. Well, why 90 00:04:56.600 --> 00:04:59.439 would that be Even though it's you know, relevant previous 91 00:04:59.439 --> 00:05:02.959 to nine elevens, it has become more relevant in my opinion, 92 00:05:03.439 --> 00:05:06.199 since nine to eleven and the administration. 93 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:08.240 Of George W. Bush. 94 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:12.279 When it comes to America's oh, should we call it 95 00:05:12.439 --> 00:05:21.240 war footing, military posturing, the dynamics of high end, low 96 00:05:21.519 --> 00:05:27.439 speed woe diplomacy. You know, there's a lot of ways 97 00:05:27.439 --> 00:05:29.920 we could phrase this. I'm sure Larry will do it better. 98 00:05:30.000 --> 00:05:35.480 But the war powers act right, and the president, you know, 99 00:05:35.879 --> 00:05:39.160 engaging in military actions in a limited sense, et cetera, 100 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:42.319 et cetera. But you know, I'm not the guy to 101 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:44.639 do the presentation on this, though. I may have a 102 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:51.319 couple of questions, Larry, given the circumstance in the engagement 103 00:05:51.439 --> 00:05:56.399 with Iran at this point, and the nature of it, 104 00:05:56.560 --> 00:06:01.240 with the allies being declared and rhetoric be wrung soundly 105 00:06:01.319 --> 00:06:05.120 around the world, and of course the limitations and expansions 106 00:06:05.160 --> 00:06:07.560 of news media and various nations. 107 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:10.839 Where should we begin to suss out? 108 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:14.519 I don't know a sober reality about what it is 109 00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:18.079 we're facing in real time and the dynamics of what 110 00:06:18.279 --> 00:06:24.240 history might wind up recording regarding this current see I 111 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:28.560 keep stopping myself from saying war with Iran, but. 112 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:30.279 We have something happening. 113 00:06:30.319 --> 00:06:34.079 There is a military action, and it does involve the 114 00:06:34.079 --> 00:06:37.720 military on some levels. It does involve intelligence on some levels. 115 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.240 And I don't mean intelligence as in are they smart 116 00:06:41.319 --> 00:06:44.240 or not? And I know smart is not intelligent. But 117 00:06:45.000 --> 00:06:49.360 point is, that's not the point. What is happening here? 118 00:06:49.480 --> 00:06:50.319 And what about the. 119 00:06:50.279 --> 00:06:51.399 War Powers Act? 120 00:06:51.560 --> 00:06:54.920 And although Trump does what he does and heg Seth 121 00:06:55.199 --> 00:06:58.519 does what he does, and they make lots of declarations, 122 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.759 how about the reality of what we're seeing unfold and 123 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.000 what that means regarding the War Powers Act? But maybe 124 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.720 you have a better starting point, Larry, Where should we begin? 125 00:07:10.480 --> 00:07:10.680 Well? 126 00:07:10.879 --> 00:07:14.160 I think that the fundamental question that brings us back to, 127 00:07:14.199 --> 00:07:16.120 and this is a question that has come up over 128 00:07:16.279 --> 00:07:20.480 the decades, is to what extent is does the American 129 00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:25.240 public through Congress have control over the actions of the 130 00:07:25.279 --> 00:07:32.120 president and obviously some activities that can affect the general public, 131 00:07:33.079 --> 00:07:38.639 which takes you directly to when does Congress become involved 132 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:44.040 in When the United States conducts military actions of different levels? 133 00:07:44.040 --> 00:07:49.279 And there there certainly are different levels between uh, you know, 134 00:07:50.160 --> 00:07:57.959 deployments and quite frankly even intimidation and support of diplomacy 135 00:07:58.040 --> 00:08:02.560 or geopolitics down to outright you know, combat engagements. 136 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:05.240 There are there are levels of all those. 137 00:08:05.000 --> 00:08:08.959 Things that The interesting thing is that there are legal 138 00:08:09.199 --> 00:08:15.040 boundaries to our military forces uh uh titles, bodies of 139 00:08:15.160 --> 00:08:19.240 law that that control what they can do in a 140 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:25.319 civilian domain or in a military domain. Uh, but the 141 00:08:25.399 --> 00:08:28.959 law is much much less structured in terms of the 142 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:32.480 the president making decisions on when to put them into 143 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:36.360 a combat domain. So they're actually the military has a 144 00:08:36.360 --> 00:08:44.519 lot more uh legal guidance, legal boundaries uh, set out 145 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.519 for it than the president does. And those the ones 146 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.679 that drive the president have only come up out of 147 00:08:50.879 --> 00:08:57.279 very radical situations. You know, congressional legislation following our years 148 00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:02.399 long engagement in Vietnam, which is you know, the War 149 00:09:02.519 --> 00:09:07.799 Powers Act that that that's not embodied in any fundamental 150 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:12.240 legal code in the Constitution, you know, the the Authorization 151 00:09:12.440 --> 00:09:18.759 for the Use of Military Force. Again, a congressional action 152 00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.159 that they don't they don't put this stuff in place 153 00:09:22.200 --> 00:09:26.039 in a structured that that just happens after we get 154 00:09:26.039 --> 00:09:29.360 in our overhead someplace and then it's set up and 155 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.960 it's it's always not to detail, which means the next 156 00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:35.200 time around the president can find a loophole. 157 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:40.279 Okay, so just really okay, sorry, just pause right there 158 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:40.919 for a second. 159 00:09:40.960 --> 00:09:47.039 Lary because here here comes the problem, right in a 160 00:09:47.240 --> 00:09:51.879 general in a common sense, or the Vietnam War was 161 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:55.639 not technically a war because in order for it to 162 00:09:55.759 --> 00:09:59.720 be a war, the Congress must declare it a war. 163 00:10:01.399 --> 00:10:03.200 Okay, but action was. 164 00:10:03.159 --> 00:10:07.480 Taken clearly, it was you know, in a realistic descriptive 165 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:10.879 and you know, adjective only since it was a war. 166 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:14.519 And we've had other actions that have gone down like this. 167 00:10:14.679 --> 00:10:18.879 But the president, through various you know, things like the 168 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:21.759 Gulf of Tonkin resolution going through the Congress and things 169 00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:26.159 like that, we have, you know, mixed actions that result 170 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:31.039 in something that in all other aspects but by name, 171 00:10:31.600 --> 00:10:33.679 you know, arose by any other name, is still a 172 00:10:33.679 --> 00:10:38.080 war kind of thing. And that's what happened with Vietnam. 173 00:10:38.159 --> 00:10:40.960 We also have the War on Terror, and this was 174 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:44.879 thought to be so dynamic in its ever changing kinetic 175 00:10:45.000 --> 00:10:47.919 reactions and actions. And I did put him in that 176 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:52.960 order for a reason. You know, the president required wider 177 00:10:54.879 --> 00:11:00.000 latitude regarding his powers, et cetera, in order to conduct 178 00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:05.279 that effectively. All Right, now, that has become a greater debate. 179 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:07.399 As I said at the beginning of the show post 180 00:11:07.480 --> 00:11:10.960 nine to eleven. So let's make it very simple. There 181 00:11:11.000 --> 00:11:15.440 is a difference between a declared war technicality legally et 182 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:20.759 cetera right, and an action which does resemble in always 183 00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:25.279 possible a war, except without that legal declaration, you know. 184 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:27.480 And some people would say, what is the difference and 185 00:11:27.519 --> 00:11:28.399 why does it matter? 186 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:30.120 Well, it does kind of. 187 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:33.440 And now that we have this engagement with Iran, which 188 00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:36.600 I don't know exactly how to label, is it, you know, 189 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:40.879 as Putin said about his moves on Ukraine, is it 190 00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:44.519 a special military operation? 191 00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:49.000 You know? What is the circumstance? You know? And also 192 00:11:49.480 --> 00:11:52.320 we are acting in concert. 193 00:11:51.879 --> 00:11:58.279 With the ally there, which is Israel, right, and we 194 00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:01.639 don't have a technical legal agreement. You and I talked 195 00:12:01.639 --> 00:12:04.600 about this just before going to air and we were 196 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:06.840 going over it and I said, you know, unlike what 197 00:12:06.919 --> 00:12:11.600 they have with Russia, you know, and I do mean. 198 00:12:11.519 --> 00:12:12.799 Iran has with Russia. 199 00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.279 Let me be very clear, unlike what Iran has with Russia, 200 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:20.639 where there is an agreement of mutual protection. In other words, 201 00:12:20.639 --> 00:12:23.279 if either nation is attacked, they should be able to 202 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:26.720 call upon this special ally they have an agreement with 203 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:31.000 in order to assist in the protection of their nation 204 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:35.159 because they're under attack, you know, sort of like what 205 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.279 an ally should do, whether it's a bar fight or 206 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:41.639 you're slugging it out with you know, millions of dollars 207 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.879 worth of military hardware or billions excuse me, dollar's worth 208 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:48.639 of military hardware. You know, here's your backup guy, because 209 00:12:48.679 --> 00:12:52.559 you have an agreement in writing. We don't have that 210 00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:56.759 with Israel, but it's clearly understood in a rhetorical sense, 211 00:12:56.799 --> 00:13:00.399 in a general sense, in a direct action sense. So 212 00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:03.519 you know, how do we suss this out? Regarding the 213 00:13:03.559 --> 00:13:06.519 War Powers Act, which again are the powers that allow 214 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:08.639 a lot of things to happen, much like it is 215 00:13:08.679 --> 00:13:12.600 a war already, but without that legal declaration. I guess 216 00:13:12.679 --> 00:13:15.480 what is the difference between a war and what we 217 00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:18.679 see going on? And why does it matter? I guess 218 00:13:18.679 --> 00:13:21.759 would be the fair thing to insert here? Or do 219 00:13:21.799 --> 00:13:22.440 you disagree? 220 00:13:24.360 --> 00:13:24.639 Well? 221 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:28.320 I think if you go back, the bottom line is 222 00:13:28.559 --> 00:13:34.200 the United States, its founders, in the very beginning, did 223 00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:37.480 not see us involved in foreign wars. 224 00:13:38.039 --> 00:13:40.440 They really didn't. You didn't. 225 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:43.240 The thought that we now have a Department of War 226 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:47.559 would probably astound them. The thought that we go overseas 227 00:13:47.639 --> 00:13:51.279 to find wars to fight in would astound them. They 228 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.120 viewed war as a defensive action. You know, the War 229 00:13:54.200 --> 00:13:58.759 of eighteen twelve, even the Mexican American War was a 230 00:13:58.840 --> 00:14:04.960 defensive action in response to incursions in New Mexico and Arizona, 231 00:14:04.919 --> 00:14:08.080 a cross bordering. It's like, okay, we will go off 232 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:11.720 to fight and we will declare war when somebody attacks us. 233 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.879 That that was that was the definition of war. Wars wars. 234 00:14:15.879 --> 00:14:20.559 When somebody defines attacks us, we declare war. And then 235 00:14:20.600 --> 00:14:23.960 there are you know, there are rules of engagements that 236 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:26.639 we you know, legally fight under when we go to war. 237 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:29.919 You know, what kind of troops can we deploy, what 238 00:14:30.039 --> 00:14:33.600 kind of can we do, mobilizations, all the things that 239 00:14:33.639 --> 00:14:36.639 you do if you're going to get engaged and you 240 00:14:36.679 --> 00:14:42.480 know a longer term you know, mobilization, uh, defense, arms production, 241 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:45.200 all those things, if you're really going to settle in 242 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:47.480 and go to war having been attacked. 243 00:14:47.759 --> 00:14:51.879 Now that that's where it started. Right now. The point 244 00:14:52.000 --> 00:14:52.879 is after that. 245 00:14:53.240 --> 00:14:57.080 During the especially during the Cold War era, we made 246 00:14:57.080 --> 00:15:01.080 a lot of defensive mutual defense packs with Europe in 247 00:15:01.200 --> 00:15:05.919 Southeast Asia, and we did sign mutual defense agreements that 248 00:15:06.000 --> 00:15:10.000 said if our allies were attacked, you know, we would 249 00:15:10.000 --> 00:15:12.960 go to war to help defend them. Didn't say we 250 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:15.759 would go to war with them to attack somebody else. 251 00:15:16.159 --> 00:15:19.879 This is a defensive agreement, Okay, As you said. 252 00:15:19.639 --> 00:15:21.159 We don't have that with Israel. 253 00:15:22.360 --> 00:15:25.080 We're acting as if we did, but we don't have 254 00:15:25.159 --> 00:15:26.639 that formal legal agreement. 255 00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:28.360 But we made those agreement with. 256 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:31.600 Lots of countries, you know, right, I mean with East Asia, 257 00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:38.440 Treaty Organization, NATO. But it's still always in terms of defense, right, 258 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.399 I will go to war. 259 00:15:40.279 --> 00:15:41.519 With you if you're attacked. 260 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:41.919 Yeah. 261 00:15:41.960 --> 00:15:44.200 Sorry, I was going to bring up but you beat 262 00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:47.159 me to it that. You know, the the broadest example 263 00:15:47.159 --> 00:15:50.879 of this would be NATO, where indeed, you know that 264 00:15:50.879 --> 00:15:53.799 that agreement is supposed to be if you're a nation, 265 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:58.080 a NATO country under attack, all of the others, and 266 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:00.480 this is a phrase that has been mentioned many times, 267 00:16:00.799 --> 00:16:04.879 are supposed to react as if they were also attacked. Right, 268 00:16:04.919 --> 00:16:08.159 that's part of the language in that agreement that says, 269 00:16:08.240 --> 00:16:10.639 you know, treat an attack on one of us as 270 00:16:10.679 --> 00:16:15.360 an attack on all of us. It's gang mentality. Okay, 271 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:19.039 but I mean, I'm sorry I take things to that level. 272 00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:23.000 But true, you know it's the gang mentality. But nation states, 273 00:16:24.120 --> 00:16:26.399 you attack one of us, you attack all of us, right, 274 00:16:26.960 --> 00:16:30.000 and this is one of the things that we did 275 00:16:30.120 --> 00:16:33.960 as a matter of you know, marshaling things post World 276 00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:37.200 War two for sure, but it's not unheard of or 277 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:39.440 brand new at that time. It's just a matter of 278 00:16:39.960 --> 00:16:42.320 that was one of the things that was a key 279 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:45.000 part of the Cold War, so to speak, when it 280 00:16:45.039 --> 00:16:49.720 comes to diplomacy and defense, and you know kind of 281 00:16:49.799 --> 00:16:52.679 like you know, you know, going in what the circumstance 282 00:16:52.759 --> 00:16:55.919 could be, and that in and of itself was meant 283 00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.440 to act as a defense mechanism. You don't want to 284 00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:01.600 attack one of the NATO nations because you could wake 285 00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:04.319 up all of the NATO nations to turn on you. 286 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.160 That was kind of the thing, like you don't pick 287 00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:10.559 on the one gangbanger, the one Hell's angel, the one 288 00:17:10.839 --> 00:17:13.880 because you'll have all of them to contend with if 289 00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.680 you do. I'm not trying to reduce it to that level, 290 00:17:17.720 --> 00:17:20.200 but I'm just trying to make it relatable here, Okay. 291 00:17:20.839 --> 00:17:24.680 So that is the intensity of that agreement or am 292 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:25.759 I misrepresenting this? 293 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.400 No, it's a defensive pack. 294 00:17:29.680 --> 00:17:33.920 And of course, in regard to NATO, it was primarily 295 00:17:34.079 --> 00:17:38.160 the fact, especially the fact that Europe was considered to 296 00:17:38.200 --> 00:17:40.920 be a valuable asset to the United States. 297 00:17:40.960 --> 00:17:42.920 This is not all self interest. You know. 298 00:17:43.440 --> 00:17:47.559 They are all sorts of linkages, commercial linkages, same thing 299 00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:51.839 to southeast age. So in a sense, helping protect them 300 00:17:51.880 --> 00:17:55.799 from being overrun by the Soviet army, which outnumbered all 301 00:17:55.880 --> 00:17:59.519 of them by fifty to one, is in your vested interest, 302 00:18:00.119 --> 00:18:01.279 not just being a good bye. 303 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:01.960 You know that. 304 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.279 There's a vested interest in all of this. Strangely we 305 00:18:07.319 --> 00:18:10.000 seem to be forgetting that. But the whole concept of 306 00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:13.440 those defensive alliances was, you know, there were economic and 307 00:18:13.559 --> 00:18:17.720 social and political relationships with those countries that were to 308 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:21.640 our benefit, and the best way to keep that was 309 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:23.960 to make sure that they didn't get evaded and taken 310 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:28.160 away from us, especially in Europe. So now that's that's 311 00:18:28.200 --> 00:18:31.480 the self interest was always part of it. So we 312 00:18:31.559 --> 00:18:33.920 have to be honest about that. And and there were 313 00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:38.680 other areas where we didn't have actual legal alliances, where 314 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:44.880 we were perfectly willing to project power to protect American 315 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:49.319 corporate investments. You know, Latin America is the case of that. 316 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:54.440 We we were perfectly willing to project military power, not 317 00:18:54.640 --> 00:19:00.880 good a war, but project power. We did uh blockades 318 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.599 of Guatemala because we felt it was going communist and 319 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:08.400 just was a political threat we did. You know, it's 320 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:12.359 not like that. We have not projected power where we 321 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:16.960 didn't have mutual alliances. But that's far different than actually 322 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:21.000 going into combat, sending your troops into combat, keeping your 323 00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:24.079 forces out there for months at a time, calling up 324 00:19:24.160 --> 00:19:25.079 your reserves. 325 00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:26.839 Again, it always. 326 00:19:26.559 --> 00:19:32.680 Stuns me that the founding fathers would probably just would 327 00:19:32.680 --> 00:19:38.319 not understand how we can send national Guard troops overseas 328 00:19:39.119 --> 00:19:42.160 for deployments of a year at a time. No, that's 329 00:19:42.200 --> 00:19:45.440 not what the National Guard was created. It's a national guard, Okay, 330 00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.960 it's here you're guarding the nation you're not in, you know, 331 00:19:49.559 --> 00:19:52.039 Syria or Afghanistan. 332 00:19:52.279 --> 00:19:55.480 That would it's just a new way that. 333 00:19:55.359 --> 00:20:00.359 We've decided to project force because we didn't want to 334 00:20:00.359 --> 00:20:02.440 spend the money to keep a standing army that was 335 00:20:02.559 --> 00:20:03.960 large enough to do the same thing. 336 00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.759 Well, right, and there are many nuances here, right, But Larry, 337 00:20:06.759 --> 00:20:08.240 there are many nuances here too. 338 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:09.119 You know. 339 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:13.640 For instance, you mentioned blockades and you know, quarantines and 340 00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:17.640 things like this. Right, in a technical in a legal sense, 341 00:20:17.839 --> 00:20:22.240 a blockade or a quarantine is an active war, even 342 00:20:22.359 --> 00:20:24.920 if you're not shooting, so you know, it doesn't always 343 00:20:25.000 --> 00:20:29.400 involve shooting, okay, in order to have an active war, 344 00:20:29.880 --> 00:20:32.599 so you got to be careful between the things that 345 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.720 seem obvious to be war and things that maybe in 346 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.359 a legal technical sense or not necessarily. I don't mean 347 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.880 you have to be careful, Larry. I'm talking obviously to 348 00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:44.920 the third person here in the room, which is the listener. 349 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:48.160 And the point is that there are a great many 350 00:20:48.279 --> 00:20:52.920 nuances involved throughout all of this, and I'm pretty sure 351 00:20:52.920 --> 00:20:57.960 it still stands that a blockade is an active war, right, 352 00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:00.960 I mean, even though again it isn't involved shooting or 353 00:21:00.960 --> 00:21:04.680 death or anything which most people would think were absolutely 354 00:21:04.720 --> 00:21:10.200 necessary to declare something a piece of war in any way, 355 00:21:10.240 --> 00:21:13.599 an active war an action that is war. But a 356 00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:16.119 blockade in and of itself is an act of war. 357 00:21:17.319 --> 00:21:19.519 And as a matter of fact, if you blockade people 358 00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:24.920 and you know, keep them separated from certain essential resources 359 00:21:24.920 --> 00:21:28.519 and such, you can be committing a war crime without 360 00:21:28.559 --> 00:21:32.759 firing a shot. So there are many nuances along the way. 361 00:21:32.920 --> 00:21:35.319 Would this not be an accurate thing to also add 362 00:21:35.359 --> 00:21:36.240 for context here? 363 00:21:38.039 --> 00:21:41.440 Yeah, And it depends on like who who is the 364 00:21:41.519 --> 00:21:44.359 authority for saying something is or is not. You know, 365 00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.200 we have lots of treaty agreements with other countries that 366 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:54.119 we don't honor. There are many agreements relating to warfare 367 00:21:54.240 --> 00:21:56.319 that we're not a party to, and if we didn't 368 00:21:56.319 --> 00:22:00.759 sign up to that, then it's we've left ourselves out 369 00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:03.799 of it, like land mines something like that. So you 370 00:22:03.880 --> 00:22:06.920 get into that level of detail. I mean, theoretically, a 371 00:22:07.039 --> 00:22:12.000 quarantine is much different than a blockade. If I stop 372 00:22:12.119 --> 00:22:15.519 all vessels going towards a certain country and let some 373 00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:21.839 pass that are you know, economically viable. If let's say 374 00:22:21.880 --> 00:22:26.480 I'm just stopping the oil, Okay, that's not it's quarantine. 375 00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:31.279 Kennedy did a quarantine, a qubic just for Russian missiles, right, 376 00:22:31.279 --> 00:22:34.160 he didn't stop. It wasn't really that kind of blockade. 377 00:22:34.200 --> 00:22:37.799 When I talked about Guatemala, that was just really a 378 00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:41.000 quarantine for shipments of Soviet weapons. 379 00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:42.960 It wasn't a total blockade. 380 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:46.720 So what we're what we're talking about, certainly in Iran 381 00:22:46.880 --> 00:22:52.039 right now, comes much closer to being quote unquote economic warfare. 382 00:22:52.240 --> 00:22:56.559 In other words, war that's targeting the civilian population, not 383 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:01.400 the military. That takes you much closer when you start 384 00:23:01.920 --> 00:23:05.799 different between going to war with an enemy nation's combatants 385 00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:11.920 and to their civilian population. Lines can be drawn there. Certainly, 386 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:16.720 once you declare war, then it's everything's off the board. 387 00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:19.759 But the strange thing, of course, is we haven't done that. 388 00:23:19.880 --> 00:23:22.480 We've reached a position of saying, oh, we're going to 389 00:23:22.519 --> 00:23:25.319 go to war against a civilian population, or we're going 390 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:30.599 to go into combat against a civilian population economic warfare, 391 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.079 but we. 392 00:23:31.039 --> 00:23:33.440 Won't call it war. All right. 393 00:23:33.599 --> 00:23:36.519 You know, we're playing with word games at that point 394 00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:39.119 in time. But the point I was trying to get 395 00:23:39.160 --> 00:23:46.759 across is, you know, it's Congress and our own rules 396 00:23:46.759 --> 00:23:49.799 are what really can you know? They're the only constraint. 397 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:55.039 International treaties mean nothing if we don't choose to honor them, 398 00:23:55.079 --> 00:23:57.519 if nothing if we don't choose to sign up to them. 399 00:23:58.000 --> 00:24:02.200 The only restraint in place our military action is the 400 00:24:02.319 --> 00:24:06.559 personal restraint of the president and the legal restraints that 401 00:24:06.599 --> 00:24:09.400