WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.160 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them. Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker VTK Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.239 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.559 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 6 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:34.560 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:40.000 --> 00:00:45.240 Good Evening, a successful entertainment executive making two million a 8 00:00:45.320 --> 00:00:50.240 year his former beauty queen wife. They are two sons 9 00:00:50.320 --> 00:00:54.200 on the fast track to success, but it was all 10 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:59.759 a facade. The Menendez saga has captivated the American public 11 00:01:00.320 --> 00:01:05.000 nineteen eighty nine, the killing of Ose and Kitty Menendez 12 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:08.799 on a quiet Sunday evening in Beverly Hills didn't make 13 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:12.319 the cover of People magazine until the arrest of their 14 00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:17.280 sons seven months later, when the case developed an intense 15 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:22.319 cult following. By the time the first Menendez trial began 16 00:01:22.480 --> 00:01:27.120 in July nineteen ninety three, the public was convinced that 17 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:30.519 Lyle and Eric were a pair of greedy, rich kids 18 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:36.879 who had killed loving, devoted parents. The real story remained 19 00:01:36.920 --> 00:01:42.959 buried beneath years of dark secrets, A culmination of more 20 00:01:43.000 --> 00:01:48.239 than thirty years of journalist Robert Rand's relentless reporting. This 21 00:01:48.599 --> 00:01:54.840 updated edition of The Menendez Murders shares these intimate breakthrough findings, 22 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:58.439 including a deeply disturbing history of child abuse and sexual 23 00:01:58.560 --> 00:02:03.879 molestation in the man Menendez family going back generations, as 24 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:08.879 well as exclusive new revelations linking the nineteen eighties boy 25 00:02:08.960 --> 00:02:14.960 band Menudo and the Menendez family. Journalist and author Robert 26 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:18.719 Rand has followed the Menendez murders from the beginning and 27 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:23.080 is the only reporter who covered the original investigation as 28 00:02:23.120 --> 00:02:28.319 well as both trials with the unique vantage and unparalleled 29 00:02:28.439 --> 00:02:32.960 access to the Menendez family and their history, including interviews 30 00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.800 with both brothers before and after their arrest and to 31 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:42.919 this day. In twenty twenty three, Rand uncovered extraordinary material 32 00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:45.840 evidence that would certainly have changed the fate of the 33 00:02:45.879 --> 00:02:50.479 brother's first degree murder conviction in nineteen ninety six. He 34 00:02:50.639 --> 00:02:53.960 and the Menendez family hoped his discoveries would give the 35 00:02:54.000 --> 00:02:59.439 brothers new hope for reopening the case. The Netflix film 36 00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:04.080 series Monsters was released September nineteenth with over twenty million 37 00:03:04.159 --> 00:03:09.759 viewers and much controversy, with Netflix also releasing their documentary 38 00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:15.759 The Menendez Brothers featuring Robert Rand to be released October seventh. 39 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:21.879 On October third, Los Angeles District Attorney George Gascon made 40 00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.560 an announcement that his office is reviewing the convictions of 41 00:03:25.599 --> 00:03:30.000 the Menendez brothers to determine whether they should be resentenced 42 00:03:30.520 --> 00:03:36.479 and potentially released. A hearing has been scheduled for November 43 00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:41.400 twenty sixth. Journalist and author Robert Rand joins me to 44 00:03:41.479 --> 00:03:47.840 discuss the Menendez Murder's updated edition, Netflix's Monsters and the 45 00:03:47.879 --> 00:03:53.840 Menendez Brothers documentary, and his incredible role in the historic 46 00:03:54.199 --> 00:03:59.360 Menendez murder case. Welcome back to the program, and thank 47 00:03:59.400 --> 00:04:05.439 you very much for this interview. Robert Rand, Hell, Dan Good, 48 00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:08.960 Josh here again. Thank you so much. It's thank you 49 00:04:09.159 --> 00:04:12.759 for this interview, especially in the incredible timing of everything 50 00:04:12.759 --> 00:04:16.920 that's gone on in the Menedez case so far. 51 00:04:17.839 --> 00:04:20.399 Well, it's been a very exciting, too much. 52 00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.839 On the updated we're talking about the updated edition of 53 00:04:26.600 --> 00:04:31.240 The Menendez Murders, and on the back cover you're write, 54 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:35.199 discover the updated edition of the definitive book on the 55 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:41.480 Menendez case and the disquieting true story behind Netflix Monsters, 56 00:04:41.959 --> 00:04:46.639 the Lylan Eric Menendez story, and you're write the new 57 00:04:46.680 --> 00:04:51.720 evidence that you've uncovered gives the brothers hope for reopening 58 00:04:51.759 --> 00:04:56.079 the case. Now that hope is a hearing November twenty sixth, 59 00:04:56.639 --> 00:05:01.680 thanks to you and Marta Cano. But before, let's go back, 60 00:05:03.040 --> 00:05:05.680 Before we go to the groundbreaking evidence you were able 61 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:11.199 to discover and the Netflix hit film Monsters and the 62 00:05:11.439 --> 00:05:16.399 just released Menendez Brothers documentary, and also your involvement with 63 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:21.639 the docu series Menendez and Minudo, Let's go back to 64 00:05:21.959 --> 00:05:26.120 August twenty first, nineteen eighty nine and a phone call 65 00:05:26.160 --> 00:05:32.800 from Stephen Apple Video Insider magazine. Who were you and 66 00:05:32.920 --> 00:05:36.839 where were you professionally as a writer at that time, 67 00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:39.800 and tell us about that faithful phone call. 68 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:44.920 I was a freelance and a freelance writer for the 69 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:49.519 Sunday magazine, the late Great propic magazine at the Miami Herald. 70 00:05:50.240 --> 00:05:52.920 On I was twenty first, nineteen eighty nine. I was 71 00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:56.600 in the Miami Herald newsroom about ten in the morning, 72 00:05:57.040 --> 00:06:00.279 and my good friend Stephen Apple, a good friend going 73 00:06:00.279 --> 00:06:04.560 back to college, actually happened to be the editor of 74 00:06:04.639 --> 00:06:08.439 a trade magazine for the home video business called Video Insider, 75 00:06:09.120 --> 00:06:13.639 and I had just spent two months doing reporting about 76 00:06:13.639 --> 00:06:15.839 the home video business, and I was about to write 77 00:06:15.879 --> 00:06:20.399 a major investigative story for the Miami Herald Sunday magazine, 78 00:06:20.800 --> 00:06:23.800 and I got a phone call from Steve Abbel and 79 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:27.519 what he told me was that a high profile home 80 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:32.439 video executive and his wife had been killed the night 81 00:06:32.480 --> 00:06:37.319 before in Beverly Hills. I remember he either told me 82 00:06:37.439 --> 00:06:40.439 or I found out within a few minutes that Jose 83 00:06:40.600 --> 00:06:44.519 Menendez was Cuban American, and so that made it of 84 00:06:44.759 --> 00:06:48.439 potential interest to people in Miami, which has the large 85 00:06:48.480 --> 00:06:53.160 Cuban American community. Also, you know, I had this two 86 00:06:53.240 --> 00:06:56.360 months of reporting I just completed it about the home 87 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:01.480 video business. So I was primed and ready to get 88 00:07:01.560 --> 00:07:06.399 into this story. And within ten days I found out 89 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:10.319 that Jose Mendez had a sister, march Cano, who lived 90 00:07:10.360 --> 00:07:15.240 in West Palm Beach, Florida, so near Miami. So using 91 00:07:15.319 --> 00:07:19.160 the nineteen eighty nine technology, I got out the phone 92 00:07:19.160 --> 00:07:22.399 book for West Palm and I looked up Marx Cano 93 00:07:22.519 --> 00:07:25.560 and she was listed, and I called her up five 94 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:29.120 percent to make a condolence call and ninety five percent 95 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:32.959 to possibly hit on her for a story, and she 96 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:37.000 within a few minutes of our talking, she immediately invited 97 00:07:37.040 --> 00:07:40.199 me to come to her home that afternoon, which was 98 00:07:40.199 --> 00:07:44.360 about ninety minutes away from Miami, and we spent the 99 00:07:44.519 --> 00:07:49.199 entire afternoon not talking about the mers which had happened 100 00:07:49.199 --> 00:07:53.079 ten days earlier, but we were talking about the Menendas 101 00:07:53.120 --> 00:07:57.319 family history, which was quite an interesting story. The family 102 00:07:57.360 --> 00:08:03.040 had started in Spain, they were poor, they became wealthy, 103 00:08:03.279 --> 00:08:06.439 and then when Franco came into power, they lost everything 104 00:08:07.079 --> 00:08:12.040 and immigrated to Cuba, and once again they started out 105 00:08:12.480 --> 00:08:15.759 very poor. They became wealthy all over again, and then 106 00:08:15.920 --> 00:08:20.160 Castro came into power and once again the family lost 107 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:25.000 all of their assets. So their next move was to 108 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:28.879 come to the States in the early nineteen sixties, and 109 00:08:28.959 --> 00:08:33.000 once again they had nothing, and once again they became wealthy. 110 00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:38.720 The family had a very interesting story. And then the 111 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:41.799 most interesting thing that march Can shared with me that 112 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:47.200 first day was that Jose Menendez had a five year 113 00:08:47.240 --> 00:08:52.039 plan to retire from the entertainment business and he wanted 114 00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:55.679 to buy a family compound for the whole family live 115 00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:59.600 in in Miami, and Jose wanted to run for the 116 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:04.320 US Senate and aust Castro from Cuba, the man who 117 00:09:04.399 --> 00:09:09.720 had ended his country club lifestyle in Havana and forced 118 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:15.080 him to live in the attic of relatives in northeast Pennsylvania, 119 00:09:15.679 --> 00:09:19.440 where he was penniless, and this happened overnight to him 120 00:09:19.440 --> 00:09:24.080 when he was sixteen. So the title of that first 121 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:27.440 story that I wrote, which by the way, I was 122 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:31.559 not assigned to write a story about the murder investigation, 123 00:09:32.279 --> 00:09:35.799 because there were seven months between the killing of Hussey 124 00:09:35.799 --> 00:09:40.039 and Kitty Menanzas and the rest of Lyle and Eric Menuzus, 125 00:09:40.159 --> 00:09:43.879 who were charged with killing them. So all of the 126 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:47.840 initial media speculation was that this was some kind of 127 00:09:47.879 --> 00:09:53.200 mob hit related to the home video business. And I 128 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:55.720 had just finished two months of reporting about the home 129 00:09:55.840 --> 00:09:59.720 edy business, so I was very well sourced in that area. 130 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:05.240 And I immediately reached out to everybody I had talked to 131 00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:09.200 in home video, and they told me, we don't think 132 00:10:09.240 --> 00:10:12.639 this has anything to do with the homebody business. They said, 133 00:10:12.799 --> 00:10:16.159 people do lots of things in Hollywood to get even, 134 00:10:16.480 --> 00:10:20.360 but they usually don't kill you. They may do who 135 00:10:20.399 --> 00:10:23.960 knows what to get even if you've crossed them, but 136 00:10:24.039 --> 00:10:28.919 they don't kill you. And so everybody, one of my 137 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:32.679 home video sources told me, we don't think this has 138 00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:35.720 anything to do with the home video business. As I said, 139 00:10:36.480 --> 00:10:39.720 I went and met march Caano about ten days after 140 00:10:39.720 --> 00:10:43.440 the killings, and she told me what was a really 141 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:48.279 fascinating family history Spain to keep it to the States, 142 00:10:48.320 --> 00:10:53.919 to Jose planning to retire from the entertainment business and 143 00:10:54.039 --> 00:10:58.279 run for the US Senate in Florida. And so you know, 144 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:03.399 the title of my initial article that appeared in christ 145 00:11:03.399 --> 00:11:07.679 Received nineteen eighty nine, about three months before Eric Lele 146 00:11:07.799 --> 00:11:11.919 Nandus were wrestled. The title of our story was who 147 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.159 killed the next US Senator from Florida. 148 00:11:15.240 --> 00:11:21.480 Right at that time, Marta insisted that to really understand 149 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:26.039 the Menendez family, you would have to interview Eric and Lyle. 150 00:11:27.399 --> 00:11:32.000 Now tell us about this planned interview and what happened. 151 00:11:33.840 --> 00:11:36.759 Well, along with the Eric and Lyle, you know, Marche 152 00:11:36.879 --> 00:11:40.080 had some other people who worked at Jose Live Entertainment 153 00:11:40.480 --> 00:11:43.440 that she wanted me to interview. You know, I was 154 00:11:43.480 --> 00:11:47.440 doing a biography Rag Suritius immigrant saga ends in a 155 00:11:47.519 --> 00:11:51.480 terrible tragedy, and so I came out to La for 156 00:11:51.840 --> 00:11:55.679 two weeks in late October of nineteen eighty nine, two 157 00:11:55.720 --> 00:11:59.200 months of the killings, five months before the brothers rusted, 158 00:11:59.840 --> 00:12:03.879 and I interviewed many people at Live Entertainment. I spoke 159 00:12:03.919 --> 00:12:07.080 with some of my sources in the Home of New Business, 160 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:12.799 and I also had an interview planned with Eric and Lyles, 161 00:12:13.360 --> 00:12:17.799 and they canceled on me two or three times. And 162 00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:19.679 I was finally at a point where I had to 163 00:12:19.679 --> 00:12:24.159 come home to Miami, and I called Marta in Florida 164 00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:28.240 and said, I really would like to talk to Eric Lyle, 165 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:31.320 but they've canceled on me two or three times. Can 166 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:34.799 you call them and tell them they have to sit 167 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:38.480 down with me? And she did, and they agreed to 168 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:42.159 meet me on a Friday afternoon. And so I showed 169 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:45.559 up at the mansion in Beverly Hills where jose and 170 00:12:45.639 --> 00:12:49.840 kiddyman and were killed and knocked on the door and 171 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.360 the brothers weren't home. One of their girlfriends answered the 172 00:12:53.399 --> 00:12:56.720 door and said, oh, they're up playing tennis, but they'll 173 00:12:56.720 --> 00:13:00.120 be here soon. Would you like tour the house? And 174 00:13:00.159 --> 00:13:03.679 so I said sure, and so for forty five minutes. 175 00:13:04.159 --> 00:13:07.559 It was a very large, eight thousand square foot mansion, 176 00:13:08.240 --> 00:13:11.039 and there was also a guest house on the property, 177 00:13:11.159 --> 00:13:14.879 a two story guest house behind the main house. And 178 00:13:14.919 --> 00:13:18.399 we walked all around the property for forty five minutes 179 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:23.600 and We kept walking by the room where the killings 180 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:29.799 actually took place, and I remember thinking to myself, I mean, 181 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.600 I really fell a chill every time we walked by 182 00:13:32.639 --> 00:13:36.720 that room. And I remember thinking to myself, boy, if 183 00:13:36.720 --> 00:13:39.960 my parents had been brutally murdered in this house, I 184 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:43.600 don't know if I'd be living here right. And I 185 00:13:43.799 --> 00:13:46.679 just kept having that feeling every time we walked by 186 00:13:46.679 --> 00:13:50.080 that room. One of the things that I saw as 187 00:13:50.200 --> 00:13:53.159 we were walking around the house was I saw the 188 00:13:53.440 --> 00:13:58.080 upstairs closets of Jsse and Kitty Menanaz. There were two 189 00:13:58.559 --> 00:14:03.960 rifles in the closet of Kiddy Menendez that I later 190 00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:07.200 found out were loaded on the night of the that 191 00:14:07.200 --> 00:14:07.879 they were killed. 192 00:14:09.799 --> 00:14:15.519 You talked also the investigators Less Zohler and Tom Lenahan 193 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:18.840 and talked about potential suspects in this, didn't you. 194 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:23.440 We did. Even though my assignment was not to write 195 00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:28.159 about the murder investigation, I certainly called the lead Beverly 196 00:14:28.240 --> 00:14:32.480 Hills detectives Less Solar and Tom Lanahan, and they agreed 197 00:14:32.480 --> 00:14:36.279 to have lunch for me, and we spent the entire lunch. 198 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:40.240 They were totally blowing smoke at me. We were comparing 199 00:14:40.600 --> 00:14:42.840 you know, Columbian mob hits that I was used to 200 00:14:43.080 --> 00:14:47.600 living in Miami and covering the news there to Italian 201 00:14:47.639 --> 00:14:50.559 mob hits, and you know what, did you know? They 202 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:52.440 were asking me, what did I think this was a 203 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:55.000 columbiing hit or an Italian hit, And they were totally 204 00:14:55.000 --> 00:14:59.120 blowing smoke at me. They within ten days after the 205 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.639 killing of Saying Kitty, they had a phone call from 206 00:15:02.679 --> 00:15:07.200 a lawyer representing the mother of one of their school friends. 207 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:11.919 This lawyer told the detectives, you really should look carefully 208 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:16.480 at eric Lyle menendous. So in other words, they had 209 00:15:16.480 --> 00:15:19.480 a tip and they took it very seriously. So they 210 00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:23.840 were investigating the brothers within two weeks. Of course, none 211 00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:26.840 of that was public. When I had lunch with them 212 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.799 in late October of eighty nine, they didn't give me 213 00:15:30.840 --> 00:15:35.679 a hint that the brothers were involved in anyway. Going 214 00:15:35.720 --> 00:15:40.039 back to the first Sam met Eric Lyle within about 215 00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:43.679 forty five minutes after our appointment time of three o'clock, 216 00:15:44.440 --> 00:15:47.519 they came bouncing in the front door. They were laughing 217 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.279 and smiling. They were wearing tennis whites. You know, they 218 00:15:51.320 --> 00:15:54.840 looked like they didn't have care in the world. You know, 219 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.840 we're in a good mood, and so the three of 220 00:15:57.919 --> 00:16:02.600 us went into a breakfast the room off the kitchen 221 00:16:03.480 --> 00:16:07.279 and sat down, and I pulled out a tape recorder 222 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:12.000 and a notepad, and Lyle Menandez said, actually, we don't 223 00:16:12.039 --> 00:16:15.919 want to do the interview today, so please, no notes, 224 00:16:16.039 --> 00:16:18.480 no recording. We just wanted to get to know you. 225 00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:22.840 And that first day we were together for about ninety minutes, 226 00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:27.200 Lyle did the ninety percent of the talking. He told me, 227 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:32.320 you know, how great their parents were, what an incredible 228 00:16:32.360 --> 00:16:37.080 man their father was, just you know, saying, you know, 229 00:16:37.279 --> 00:16:40.879 very nice things. Eric did very little talking that day. 230 00:16:41.440 --> 00:16:44.120 When Eric did talk, he would look over to Lyle 231 00:16:44.759 --> 00:16:48.799 as if you know, am I doing okay? Is everything 232 00:16:48.840 --> 00:16:52.799 all right? So it was just, you know, it was 233 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:59.000 a normal conversation. The brothers were not suspects publicly. I 234 00:16:59.120 --> 00:17:04.200 had no reason to be suspicious of them. So at 235 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:08.119 the end of the ninety minutes, we agreed that we 236 00:17:08.160 --> 00:17:11.200 would meet on noon on Sunday and we would do 237 00:17:11.240 --> 00:17:13.480 the formal interview. And I explained to them that I've 238 00:17:13.519 --> 00:17:16.480 been out in LA for two weeks and we had 239 00:17:16.559 --> 00:17:19.799 to do that interview on Sunday because I had to 240 00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:24.200 go back to Miami on Monday, and everybody agreed. So 241 00:17:24.400 --> 00:17:29.000 what I did on purpose, I actually switched hotels over 242 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.200 the weekend on Saturday, and I didn't want them to 243 00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:35.960 know how to find me because I didn't want them 244 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.079 to cancelog me again. And so I just showed up 245 00:17:40.240 --> 00:17:44.519 at the mansion on Sunday at noon. The brother's grandmother, 246 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:48.720 Maria answered the door, and I said, you know, I'm 247 00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:52.519 Bob Rand from the Miami Herald. I'm here to talk 248 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:57.039 with Eric and Lyle. And the grandmother Maria told me 249 00:17:57.759 --> 00:18:00.640 Lyle had to go to New Jersey. The night before, 250 00:18:00.640 --> 00:18:03.359 he took a red eye to New York because he 251 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.359 had a problem with the chicken ring restaurant he had 252 00:18:06.359 --> 00:18:11.279 bought in Princeton, where he was going to school. She said, well, 253 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.400 Eric is asleep upstairs. Do you want me to wake 254 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:18.559 him up? And I said, well, I'm sorry, but yes, 255 00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:21.400 I do want you to wake him up, because you know, 256 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:25.519 it's my last say in California and I have to 257 00:18:25.559 --> 00:18:30.279 speak with him. And so fifteen minutes later, Eric came down, 258 00:18:30.599 --> 00:18:33.480 just out of the shower with wet hair. We sat 259 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.079 for about three and a half hours in the formal 260 00:18:36.119 --> 00:18:38.559 living room of the mansion. You know, I had to 261 00:18:38.839 --> 00:18:41.640 tape a corner with me, and I have a recording 262 00:18:41.759 --> 00:18:47.200 of that entire interview, and most of the time he 263 00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:51.880 was telling me very loving, caring stories about how wonderful 264 00:18:51.920 --> 00:18:55.039 his parents were, that he missed them. You know that 265 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:59.200 both he and Lyle were very sad. They couldn't imagine 266 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:05.200 life without their parents. And at one point I said, look, 267 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:08.039 I'm not you know, about two hours in, I said, 268 00:19:08.359 --> 00:19:12.000 I'm not doing a story about the murder investigation, but 269 00:19:12.319 --> 00:19:14.559 I have to ask you a couple of questions about 270 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:18.079 the night you came home and found your parents' bodies. 271 00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:23.359 And so for the next twelve minutes we talked about that, 272 00:19:23.680 --> 00:19:28.640 and Eric answered questions again in nineteen eighty nine technology 273 00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:33.960 the tape on my audio CASSIP player ran out after 274 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:39.279 about twelve minutes, and Eric was crying softly at this point, 275 00:19:39.599 --> 00:19:42.559 and he said, can we stop talking about this? It's 276 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:45.559 very hard for me to go back and you know, 277 00:19:45.720 --> 00:19:49.599 relived that night. And I said, of course. And so 278 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:55.279 we never talked about the the killings after that, but 279 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:59.720 I have about twelve minutes that are quite interesting. Some 280 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:02.799 of them it is in my book The Mendus murders. 281 00:20:03.400 --> 00:20:06.799 That's how that went. And so at the end of 282 00:20:06.920 --> 00:20:09.799 three and a half hours of doing a formal interview, 283 00:20:10.839 --> 00:20:14.200 Eric actually volunteered to spend more time with me, and 284 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:16.160 he said, would you like to go out to cal 285 00:20:16.240 --> 00:20:20.720 Vasas about thirty five forty minutes away and see the 286 00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:25.160 dream house my parents were remodeling. And I said, sure, 287 00:20:25.240 --> 00:20:27.640 I would love to go out and see it. And 288 00:20:27.720 --> 00:20:32.640 so Eric and grandmother Maria and I jumped into his 289 00:20:32.759 --> 00:20:36.559 cheap and we went out to cal Vasas and he 290 00:20:36.640 --> 00:20:39.559 walked me all around this house. And so basically we 291 00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:44.400 spent another two hours together. And so one would think 292 00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:48.519 somebody who you know, has just finished a three and 293 00:20:48.519 --> 00:20:51.920 a half hour interview with a reporter, and if he 294 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:56.720 wanted to get away, you know, or stop being with 295 00:20:56.799 --> 00:21:00.440 the reporter, he would have said goodbye, you know, when 296 00:21:00.720 --> 00:21:03.839 we finished the interview, But he volunteered to spend more 297 00:21:03.880 --> 00:21:06.960 time with me, you know. Then I drove them back 298 00:21:06.960 --> 00:21:13.039 to Beverly Hills, and nine days after Eric spent three 299 00:21:13.039 --> 00:21:15.279 and a half hours telling me how much he loved 300 00:21:15.319 --> 00:21:18.559 his parents and how wonderful they were. Eric went to 301 00:21:18.799 --> 00:21:23.200 doctor Jerome Mosille, a therapist in Beverly Hills and confessed 302 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:26.519 that he and Lyle were responsible for killing their parents. 303 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:30.960 And I always wondered what impact did that three and 304 00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.079 a half hour interview have on him that may have 305 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:38.440 motivated him to go to a therapist. Then I found 306 00:21:38.480 --> 00:21:42.799 out that he had been really doing very poorly, And 307 00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:44.920 this is one of the biggest You know, there are 308 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:50.880 a number of inaccurate scenes in Monsters, the Netflix scripted 309 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:56.240 series aboutcase, but one of them that really sticks out 310 00:21:56.240 --> 00:21:59.440 in episode one is you know, they had the brothers 311 00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:04.519 part being like crazy, you know, you know, dancing and 312 00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:09.119 snorting lines coke and all that set And first of all, 313 00:22:09.759 --> 00:22:12.759 friends and brothers tell me they were straight out or jux. 314 00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:18.039 Eric Lahmanns were nationally reged tennis players in the fall 315 00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:21.680 of eighty nine. Apparently they never did drugs, is what 316 00:22:22.119 --> 00:22:26.759 all of the fronts unanimously told me. And Le's favorite 317 00:22:26.799 --> 00:22:30.759 drink was Shila Sunrise. You also liked drinking the wine 318 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.200 coolers at parties. Those scenes where you see them partying 319 00:22:35.240 --> 00:22:39.319 like mad in Monsters are totally false. 320 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.319 Robert, Let's just use this as an opportunity to stop 321 00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:49.759 to hear these messages. You spoke about Eric going to 322 00:22:50.119 --> 00:22:53.799 doctor o'zill. You talked about you write about Eric being 323 00:22:53.880 --> 00:23:00.799 suicidal and then confessing the infamous confession to doctor Roseille. 324 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:05.279 Let's just fast forward a little bit to how it 325 00:23:05.359 --> 00:23:10.759 became that the client privilege rule had this exception. What 326 00:23:10.960 --> 00:23:15.599 was the exception to that privilege that allowed this evidence 327 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:20.119 of the confession to be in both trials? 328 00:23:20.799 --> 00:23:26.279 Okay, so now let's pass forward from the crime was 329 00:23:26.359 --> 00:23:31.200 in August nineteen eighty nine, and Eric Lahmanandas were arrested 330 00:23:31.240 --> 00:23:35.960 in charged with murder in March of nineteen ninety. Normally, 331 00:23:36.279 --> 00:23:39.599 you would have a privilege with the therapist for anything 332 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:44.440 that you share with the therapist. Under California law, there's 333 00:23:44.480 --> 00:23:49.920 something called the tearsoft rule which lays out several exceptions 334 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:53.519 to the privilege law, and some of them are, you know, 335 00:23:53.559 --> 00:23:55.880 if you tell the therapists I'm going to go murder 336 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.880 my girlfriend tomorrow, the therapist is obligated to go to law. 337 00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:04.640 If you threaten your therapists and you say I'm going 338 00:24:04.720 --> 00:24:06.799 to hurt you, I'm going to hurt your family, I'm 339 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:09.839 going to hurt other people around you, the therapist can 340 00:24:09.880 --> 00:24:14.680 also break the privilege. So what happened was that there's 341 00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.000 a side story with the therapist, doctor Jerome Oziel, and 342 00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:22.559 doctor Ozil was married to another therapist at that time 343 00:24:22.680 --> 00:24:27.559 named Laurel Ozel. And also doctor Ozel had a mistress 344 00:24:27.680 --> 00:24:31.720 on the side whose name was Judelan Smith. And so 345 00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:35.519 Judelan Smith plays kind of a key role in the 346 00:24:35.559 --> 00:24:40.920 whole case because she claimed that she had been in 347 00:24:41.079 --> 00:24:45.440 doctor Rozel's waiting room and overheard the confession of the brothers. 348 00:24:45.880 --> 00:24:50.440 You know, she in early news reports said, I heard 349 00:24:50.519 --> 00:24:53.920 with my own ears, I heard their voices that they 350 00:24:53.960 --> 00:24:56.920 had killed their parents. And I don't believe she was 351 00:24:57.039 --> 00:25:01.680 ever there. What I believe is that doctor Ozel gosped 352 00:25:01.759 --> 00:25:04.440 with his girlfriend and told her about the confession. He 353 00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:07.599 was so excited that, you know, that these clients that 354 00:25:07.640 --> 00:25:11.680 were fairly high profile had told them about a confession, 355 00:25:12.039 --> 00:25:16.039 and he got with his girlfriend. And so there was 356 00:25:16.079 --> 00:25:20.160 a drama over a period of several months where Julan 357 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:24.799 Smith started threatening to go to the police as her 358 00:25:24.920 --> 00:25:30.119 relationship with o'zeild sowurd and so incredible as it sounds, 359 00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:35.480 Jerry o'zeal and Laura o'zel moved Judelan Smith into their 360 00:25:35.480 --> 00:25:38.359 house with their two young daughters eight and ten years old, 361 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:40.759 and they were trying to keep the lid on her 362 00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:44.720 from going to the police. So she lived in their 363 00:25:44.759 --> 00:25:48.119 guest room for about three or four months, and finally 364 00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.680 one night they came home and found a smith talking 365 00:25:51.720 --> 00:25:54.680 to their daughters and saying I'm going to be your 366 00:25:54.720 --> 00:25:58.119 new mommy, and so they immediately kicked her out of 367 00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:00.480 the house and the next day she went to the 368 00:26:00.519 --> 00:26:04.119 Beverly Hills police and said Eric lelmanandus killed the parents. 369 00:26:04.799 --> 00:26:09.000 Doctor Jero Moziel has audio tapes in a safe class 370 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:12.680 box in German Oaks that led to a Beverly Hills 371 00:26:12.680 --> 00:26:15.960 police search war the next day of a Joziel's house 372 00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:20.480 in Saint Flaster Box. Loomanendez was arrested within a few hours, 373 00:26:21.039 --> 00:26:24.519 and Eric Menandas was actually playing in a test tournament 374 00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:30.359 in Israel and he flew to London and got out 375 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:35.880 of Israel before Interpool. Police came to arrest him within 376 00:26:36.200 --> 00:26:38.920 a few hours, but he was gone and so they 377 00:26:38.960 --> 00:26:41.680 had no idea where he was. And he was actually 378 00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:44.720 hiding out in a hotel with his test coach in 379 00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.640 London and attorney Robert Shapiro, who we know from the 380 00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:53.000 oj case arranged for him to come back and surrender 381 00:26:53.279 --> 00:26:57.559 in Los Angeles, and if Eric Menandez had just walked 382 00:26:57.599 --> 00:27:00.839 into any police session in London, it would have been 383 00:27:00.880 --> 00:27:04.839 a condition of his extradition that he not be eligible 384 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:07.880 for the death ely because Britain does not have the 385 00:27:07.920 --> 00:27:13.279 death Bellys. So instead, Robert Shapiro made him eligible for 386 00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.160 the death Elite by having him surrender in Los Angeles. 387 00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:20.599 Eric left London, met his aunt March Keno and his 388 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:24.279 cousin Andy Keno, who he was close with. Andy is 389 00:27:24.359 --> 00:27:29.279 March Canon's daughter son sorry mar Andy and Eric all 390 00:27:29.319 --> 00:27:33.240 flew from Miami to LA and the Beverly HS police 391 00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:37.000 detections were there, lax says, the plane land and they 392 00:27:37.079 --> 00:27:37.839 arrested Eric. 393 00:27:37.880 --> 00:27:45.519 Mnun's when you originally spoke to Eric Menendez regarding any 394 00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:50.519 talk of sexual abuse, you had no hint till the 395 00:27:50.559 --> 00:27:54.680 trial that there was any sexual abuse, except that there 396 00:27:54.839 --> 00:28:00.000 was one telling conversation in retrospect, I guess that talked 397 00:28:00.119 --> 00:28:05.400 about Jose showering with the two grown sons. 398 00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:08.799 Well. In the course of a three hour, three and 399 00:28:08.839 --> 00:28:12.440 a half hour interview, Eric Menanda said a couple things 400 00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:16.680 that in hindsight became very important, and one of them 401 00:28:16.839 --> 00:28:20.440