Speaker 1: Today, I want to tell you about a journey that
Speaker 1: I've been on for most of my life. Ever since
Speaker 1: I was a kid, I've heard tales of bigfoot and
Speaker 1: wild men while spending time with my friends and family.
Speaker 1: As I grew older and read more about the paranormal,
Speaker 1: my interest in encryptids and other things strange only deepened.
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Speaker 2: Now, what are your reporting? I got a screen going
Speaker 2: on here. Something just kid with my dog, something to
Speaker 2: kill your dog? My dog. We're flying through the here
Speaker 2: over the tree. I don't know how it did it? Okay, Damn,
Speaker 2: I'm really confused. All I saw was my dog coming
Speaker 2: over the fence and they would dead once you hit
Speaker 2: the grill. I didn't see any cars. All I saw
Speaker 2: was my dog coming over the fence. Happen? What are
Speaker 2: you reporting? We got some wonder or something crawling around
Speaker 2: out here? Did you see what it was? It was
Speaker 2: enough out here looking. I'm new to window now and
Speaker 2: I don't need anything. I don't want to go outside.
Speaker 2: Just fin Hello, hit the boddy out here? What went
Speaker 2: on out there? I've thought of a bit of about
Speaker 2: second nine. I don't know. Easy out there. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: walking right head.
Speaker 1: Folks. Want to welcome my guest to the show. It
Speaker 1: is Dave from Kansas. Welcome to the show man.
Speaker 3: Thanks for having me on.
Speaker 1: Yea, I've been looking forward to this, so let's get
Speaker 1: right into it. Let's talk about this bigfoot thing. What
Speaker 1: guy you interested in the subject. To begin with, when
Speaker 1: my older daughter was really young, I was at home
Speaker 1: changing diapers and taking care of her. I was going
Speaker 1: to stay at home dad for a short period of
Speaker 1: time to have lots of time to do research online.
Speaker 1: I found the Humphreys incident. I'm not sure if you're
Speaker 1: familiar with that. It was the alleged killing of a
Speaker 1: bigfoot in Ownaby, Oklahoma. I researched everything I could find about.
Speaker 1: It seemed like this is a real event, it really happened.
Speaker 1: So I contacted some people and locals down there, and
Speaker 1: I went down there, talked to locals, police, sheriffs. There
Speaker 1: was a guy from Homeland Security there at the time.
Speaker 1: We went camping on an outing for another two nights.
Speaker 1: After I got down there, I was down there for
Speaker 1: three days. Southeast Oklahoma, that's like north of Beaver Bend,
Speaker 1: outside of Big Cedar, Oklahoma. That's where most of the
Speaker 1: habituations are. My experience, in short, was basically walking along
Speaker 1: a tree line with a group of guys and we
Speaker 1: were all spread out and I could hear like the
Speaker 1: sound of branches breaking and heavy feet, rocks hitting the ground.
Speaker 3: You could hear something walking that was heavy. If the
Speaker 3: horse was approaching you in the dark in the woods,
Speaker 3: or you're gonna hear the hoofs hit the clay and
Speaker 3: hit the dirt and the rocks and stuff. You know
Speaker 3: what it is. But this was very large animal, completely black,
Speaker 3: all blacked out. I approached it. I was probably with
Speaker 3: ten about five to seven feet of it. It started
Speaker 3: making like gibberish noise that over and over. I backed away.
Speaker 3: It backed away from there. On the experiences night after
Speaker 3: night as we were there over the three day period,
Speaker 3: we're pretty much supernatural. When we would go out walking
Speaker 3: along these other tree lines. This is just south of
Speaker 3: a big cedar, Oklahoma, in the middle of nowhere in
Speaker 3: the woods, you would see tree branches just bend over
Speaker 3: ninety degrees and then snap and then go back up
Speaker 3: again when there's nothing there. I brought a buddy of mine,
Speaker 3: Mark with me down there to be a witness to
Speaker 3: experience this, and the whole night was nothing but almost
Speaker 3: like games of rock throwing, and these like tree branches
Speaker 3: being smashed lost in the distance, and you don't see
Speaker 3: any kind of creature there. They're like seemingly invisible. I
Speaker 3: don't know how else to describe it. If you can
Speaker 3: imagine like a bowl running through the woods. The damage
Speaker 3: it does you see, but the creature itself you don't.
Speaker 3: That's what we experienced night after night, violent tree shaking,
Speaker 3: like we would approach a tree like a small pine,
Speaker 3: and it would shake just violently like this, like for
Speaker 3: ten seconds and then stop. So I don't know what
Speaker 3: they are, but Arla, the woman in a Flash of Beauty.
Speaker 3: I don't know if you've seen the documentary of Flash
Speaker 3: of Beauty, the woman Arlae is the one that took
Speaker 3: me into the woods, so I know her personally. I
Speaker 3: have her email address and herself soone number. I can
Speaker 3: send it to you if you ever want to contact her.
Speaker 3: But she's the gateway to experience for whatever they are.
Speaker 3: They're not an ape. There's some kind of like shadow creature.
Speaker 3: They can move and be seen or be unseen, but
Speaker 3: when they're seen, they're just black. They're just like a dark,
Speaker 3: like super dark black shadow. We had night vision goggles
Speaker 3: one of the nice we were out there and you
Speaker 3: could see them looking at you. They were peeking behind
Speaker 3: trees looking like this and trying to block themselves with
Speaker 3: a tree, and you could see a head come out
Speaker 3: and come back again. They seem to be as interested
Speaker 3: in us as we are them. I don't feel that
Speaker 3: they're a danger. That's my experience, and that was nearly
Speaker 3: ten years ago, and from then on I've done a
Speaker 3: little more research. The only conclusion I can come to
Speaker 3: is that there's like a scale of one to ten.
Speaker 3: One being literally like a monkey that's digging in the trash,
Speaker 3: because there are plenty of reports of these creatures and
Speaker 3: trash cans. That's one of the most common. Actually, Then
Speaker 3: a ten being like a supernatural creature that can disappear
Speaker 3: into the wood and then reappears a black shadow, and
Speaker 3: then scale that up and down, and you find throughout
Speaker 3: reports all over the country, all over the world. That's
Speaker 3: what it's like. I don't know what else to say.
Speaker 3: There's a guy in Louisiana that was hiding in a
Speaker 3: trash can loaded to the hilt with pistols. He was
Speaker 3: determined to kill the thing because he was going to
Speaker 3: prove it and he would see this what he described
Speaker 3: as an orangutang digging in the trash can every day.
Speaker 3: Outside of his house. He had some type small dumpster
Speaker 3: that he got inside of and jumped out. I've heard
Speaker 3: reports you wouldn't believe, but are incredibly believable. And these
Speaker 3: people were sincere. They don't have any reason to make
Speaker 3: it up now. The Carol Johnston ordeal, I don't know
Speaker 3: if you know about Carol Johnson and what went down
Speaker 3: in Holden, Missouri is one of the more interesting investigations
Speaker 3: I've done lately. You can find it on Reddit. I
Speaker 3: wrote a page on it. The YouTube blanks are all there.
Speaker 3: Carol Johnson, Holden, Missouri, Bigfoot. Lock it up on the internet.
Speaker 3: You'll find it. There was a lot of responses on
Speaker 3: Reddit about it. I got threatened by the family to
Speaker 3: stay away from the property. It got really nasty and
Speaker 3: wild for a moment, but no harm, no foul. We
Speaker 3: just investigated it. It was part of the William jeb
Speaker 3: Ming show It's a Creek Devil podcast. She was a
Speaker 3: guest on there, and I did some research and found
Speaker 3: out where she was living and where the property was.
Speaker 3: And here's what's interesting about it is I talked to
Speaker 3: the neighbors. One of them said, no, we've never seen
Speaker 3: any bigfoot here. Another property that was about two hundred
Speaker 3: feet down the road around the corner. They run a
Speaker 3: plumbing company they called the phone number, and the woman answered,
Speaker 3: I think it's the wife of the plumber. They have
Speaker 3: a small farm there. I said, I know this is weird,
Speaker 3: but I have a question for you. Have you ever
Speaker 3: seen any bigfoot or sasquatch activity out here? And she
Speaker 3: was silent for thirty seconds. She told me that her
Speaker 3: dad was working a job in North Kansas City and
Speaker 3: he was getting up at four in the morning to
Speaker 3: drive in and he had multiple sightings of these things
Speaker 3: running across the road, sometimes with small animals in their hands.
Speaker 3: She told me that to this day, they still have
Speaker 3: small calves and piglets and stuff that go missing, and
Speaker 3: they just seemingly disappeared. If you were a crime scene investigator,
Speaker 3: just would really tell you something that there really was
Speaker 3: something going on the property. But it drove Carol Johnson
Speaker 3: and her mother completely insane. If you listen to their story,
Speaker 3: it is the most wild, burzure bigfoot story ever. It
Speaker 3: takes the cave man. This woman needs an Emmy if
Speaker 3: she's making this up. But they were completely terrorized by
Speaker 3: a couple of these creatures. And they were living down
Speaker 3: in a creek behind their trailer in the woods. Eh,
Speaker 3: it's a hum dinger Man, it's something else. But fifteen
Speaker 3: years or so of investigating this, I looked for the
Speaker 3: what's the most sincere and believable situation? And when these
Speaker 3: people actually were driven out of their home by these
Speaker 3: creatures and they're claiming this, that's got to be looked into.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to think of it anymore, but
Speaker 3: there's an extensive Reddit page on it. You can go
Speaker 3: read all about it in my report I made when
Speaker 3: I went out to the property.
Speaker 1: I'm not familiar with that story. I was actually looking
Speaker 1: on read it as you were talking. I'll probably find
Speaker 1: that I will incorporate it somehow into this episode. Can
Speaker 1: you give us the gist of the story, the overview,
Speaker 1: maybe the abridged version of the story, how it started
Speaker 1: for them, what they were going through, and then what
Speaker 1: you found during your investigation.
Speaker 3: Yeah, she called into the William Jebming show. It's the
Speaker 3: Creek Devil podcast, you know what I'm talking about, and
Speaker 3: she was rantic. She called in and they answered on
Speaker 3: a Blive podcast. She was freaking out, crying hysterically about
Speaker 3: being absolutely terrorized by these creatures. They were leaving dead
Speaker 3: animals on the front doorstep. They were banging on the
Speaker 3: side of the trailer. I put a map on Reddit
Speaker 3: where the exact little location dot of exactly where this
Speaker 3: trailer was. She was back on the William Jennings show again.
Speaker 3: At some point I actually met her in person. I
Speaker 3: looked up public records and found it that she was
Speaker 3: living in a home inside of Holding, Missouri, and so
Speaker 3: I went by and she was in the backyard. She
Speaker 3: was like water in her plants. And I walked up
Speaker 3: to her and I said, hey, I'm Dave. I heard
Speaker 3: your story on William Jebning and Creek Devil, and she
Speaker 3: just dropped the hose. It was like, my God, she
Speaker 3: was staying and healthy. I really don't think she'sking it up.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I met her in person. So
Speaker 3: they claim they were completely and totally driven out of
Speaker 3: their home and being terrorized by the creatures. There was
Speaker 3: at least two or three of them. Apparently a neighbor
Speaker 3: had a horse go missing. I don't know, but I
Speaker 3: talked to as many neighbors as I could to try
Speaker 3: to do as much research. But the plumbing company one
Speaker 3: was that's something else. Man. You got two witnesses, you
Speaker 3: got people claiming that they see him running across the
Speaker 3: road at four o'clock in the morning. There's also a
Speaker 3: big fishery operation out there that's open. There's no fences
Speaker 3: or anything. So as far as the habituation site, it
Speaker 3: looked pretty good to me, Like, you know, something could
Speaker 3: definitely survive to live out there if it could eat
Speaker 3: raw fish and attack deer and steel piglets and stuff.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's a believable habituation site. Now we did
Speaker 3: find a kill site, okay, So what they do is
Speaker 3: they get up in trees and they'll bait deer and
Speaker 3: then they'll fall through the tree and then crush the animal.
Speaker 3: So myself and my buddy Matteo, we have photograph of
Speaker 3: kill sites that we found where the legs have been
Speaker 3: just snapped in half. Is if you hit them with
Speaker 3: a hammer. And what they're doing is they're taking their
Speaker 3: heels and they're smashing the legs of the deer after
Speaker 3: they come down, and so they can't run off. We
Speaker 3: think that they leave them there then come back and
Speaker 3: get them. But I have a I continue photographs of
Speaker 3: a pretty fresh kill site. You also rip the hide
Speaker 3: off all at once like this, and you always find
Speaker 3: the skin and then you find leg bounds that are
Speaker 3: just smashed the pieces and they pretty much eat the
Speaker 3: rest of the animal or it disappears, or you find
Speaker 3: that like deer skulls piled up in the woods. Ava,
Speaker 3: Missouri was interesting. There was a lot of rocks throwing
Speaker 3: going on down there. You could hear creatures moving around,
Speaker 3: but not much else. It's one of the spookiest habituation
Speaker 3: sites I've been to in a long time. There's National
Speaker 3: Forest area that's closed off to the public down there.
Speaker 3: That's massive. It's six hundred some acres. I wonder why
Speaker 3: they were with the public in there. I drove around
Speaker 3: it completely and every cattle guard gate, everything is locked
Speaker 3: up and it's National Force. We're supposed to be able
Speaker 3: to access that, but we can't get to it. I guess,
Speaker 3: you know. But like I said, I don't know exactly
Speaker 3: what they are. I just know what they do and
Speaker 3: what they don't. I've been on a few other podcasts
Speaker 3: about the possibility of capturing one. I have some ideas
Speaker 3: on doing that. It's basically setting up a small cabin
Speaker 3: that has a door that can lock and you can't
Speaker 3: get out of, that has a cage built inside of it,
Speaker 3: but they're pretty smart. They're not going to go into
Speaker 3: something they think is knowingly a trap. But again, that
Speaker 3: scale of one to ten, we got creatures digging in
Speaker 3: dumpsters for food, and then they're also paranormal and can disappear.
Speaker 3: Wait a minute, there's got to be a scale of
Speaker 3: their capability or of a set of genes that's more advanced.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. I don't know. Theories can just fly.
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but I just know that's what
Speaker 3: years of research and listening to reports and talking to
Speaker 3: people that actually see these things claim to communicate with him.
Speaker 3: One of the most harrowing stories I've ever heard was
Speaker 3: a guy that was working in his garden down in
Speaker 3: southeast Oklahoma. He's a former arson investigator, and I interviewed
Speaker 3: him and he was crying with his wife sitting on
Speaker 3: the couch, telling the story about how this juvenile just
Speaker 3: walked up to him and stuck its hand out. There
Speaker 3: was a family group that was watching it, and it
Speaker 3: turned and ran away. I don't know why this guy
Speaker 3: would make all this all. He's a former arson investigator
Speaker 3: for insurance company, he's retired, and he's just a gardener
Speaker 3: in Oklahoma. I witnessed this firsthand, talking to him in
Speaker 3: his home. Can we all be crazy? I don't think so.
Speaker 3: But we're dealing with a variation of some kind of
Speaker 3: some creatures that have paranormal capability of some kind, and
Speaker 3: others that need to liberally dig in the dumpster. One
Speaker 3: of the most common sightings that I found around the Ownabee,
Speaker 3: Oklahoma area was near the trash dum.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more sasquatch out to see. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: And that was interesting too. There's a guy that claimed
Speaker 3: and seen one near the trash dump It was walking
Speaker 3: back and forth. There is other reports I've found online BFRO.
Speaker 3: There is just filled with reports in that area. Can
Speaker 3: we all be crazy? I doubt it. I think we
Speaker 3: know what we see, we know what's going on. I
Speaker 3: don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hear you, man. I'm documented at this point.
Speaker 1: I'm almost six hundred episodes into this podcast. I probably
Speaker 1: interviewed a thousand or more people in person over the
Speaker 1: last few years. You're right, experiences vary from what seems
Speaker 1: to be a very flush and blood creature doing very
Speaker 1: flesh and blood things too, not so flesh and blood
Speaker 1: experiences that people have with this, and it's been very
Speaker 1: difficult for me as somebody who's very interested in the subject.
Speaker 1: I'm a pretty scientific guy. I take a scientific approach
Speaker 1: to everything. I'm an Ockham's razor kind of fella. Spent
Speaker 1: a lot of years in law enforcement, so my brain
Speaker 1: works very much like a cop still to this day.
Speaker 1: I got to see the evidence. I did have my
Speaker 1: experiences last year where I got to see these things
Speaker 1: multiple times over the course of a few days.
Speaker 3: What did you see them?
Speaker 1: I really can't get into that because for people who
Speaker 1: listen to the show, they know that I'm still under
Speaker 1: an NBA because we were filming a documentary at the
Speaker 1: time that I had these encounters, and until that comes out,
Speaker 1: hopefully within as we record this, I'm hoping it will
Speaker 1: be out at some point in March, and I should
Speaker 1: be able to fully go into those encounters. But I've
Speaker 1: talked about this before and I'll tell you about it now.
Speaker 1: One of the weirdest things during that three day stretch
Speaker 1: was seeing glowing white eyes, two sets of glowing white
Speaker 1: eyes in the briddle of the woods. I can't tell
Speaker 1: you countless people have told me about self illuminating eyes
Speaker 1: that they've experienced in their encounters, and frankly, I thought
Speaker 1: they were full of shit. I really thought they were
Speaker 1: full of shit because I thought, how can these creatures
Speaker 1: have glowing eyes? And guess what I saw with my
Speaker 1: own eyes, two sets of glowing white eyes. So there's
Speaker 1: something going on with these creatures that I haven't been
Speaker 1: able to put my finger on. I am a flesh
Speaker 1: and blood kind of guy, but I keep my mind
Speaker 1: open to those other experiences because I've learned over the
Speaker 1: last couple of years of doing this people that are
Speaker 1: out there like me who's very flesh and blood, my
Speaker 1: buddy Cliff Berrickman, very flesh and blood when it comes
Speaker 1: to research, Jeff Meldrum, all these scientific people who take
Speaker 1: this kind of approach. Then you have the Tom Powells
Speaker 1: of the world, you have the late Henry Franzonis of
Speaker 1: the world, and these people that are way more open
Speaker 1: to the high strangeness part of these encounters. And I've
Speaker 1: found over the last couple of years it's the best
Speaker 1: approach for me is I keep going out and looking
Speaker 1: for these things in a flesh and blood way. I
Speaker 1: put up trail cams, I leave out audio recorders. I
Speaker 1: do all the things right that people do in bigfoot research.
Speaker 1: I still beat on trees on occasion with my not
Speaker 1: but I also come together with these people like Tom
Speaker 1: Powell and some of these other folks that have a
Speaker 1: more high strangeness approach to these creatures because I think
Speaker 1: we learn from each other. We have a beer, we
Speaker 1: sit down and talk about what we think we know,
Speaker 1: and we learn from each other. So I am completely
Speaker 1: open to that. Here's the thing about habituation sites that
Speaker 1: I have found, and I want to ask you this
Speaker 1: question because it seems like you deal with her. I
Speaker 1: have dealt with a lot of these over the last
Speaker 1: decade plus. My problem with habituation sites is the lack
Speaker 1: of are the appearance of a lack of evidence of
Speaker 1: their experiences. Pretty Much everybody's familiar with Janis Carter, the
Speaker 1: fifty years with Bigfoot Saga, her and Mary Green, their
Speaker 1: book they co authored, and all of the podcasts and
Speaker 1: things that have been done over the course of the
Speaker 1: last probably ten years to document those encounters. But if
Speaker 1: you say, where's the evidence, Janis, there's a handful of
Speaker 1: photographs that are subjective. They are a paradolia at best
Speaker 1: in my opinion, and it seems to be very little.
Speaker 1: I've interviewed several people over the last couple of years
Speaker 1: that have habituation sites that I'll say, hey, you're baby
Speaker 1: sitting these things kids. Basically, there's situations where a ladies
Speaker 1: said they would bring their toddlers and they would play
Speaker 1: in her backyard. You got to have photographs, You got
Speaker 1: to have video of this. Oh yeah, I've got tons.
Speaker 1: They send you thirty photos and every single one of
Speaker 1: them is a stick, leaf and a tree and it's
Speaker 1: all blurry. So I have never been able to fully
Speaker 1: vet and document what people have claimed to be a
Speaker 1: habituation site where they're coexisting with these creatures. How have
Speaker 1: you found that in your research? Outside of having experiences
Speaker 1: there and just believing the person that you're talking to,
Speaker 1: have you seen evidence that has been presented to you
Speaker 1: by these people that claim to have these habituation sites
Speaker 1: that would convince you beyond a shadow of a doubt
Speaker 1: that their experience and what they say they are Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have.
Speaker 3: It was a photograph of a juvenile that was sitting
Speaker 3: by a log. It was with Arla and her team.
Speaker 3: She had three or four people that she was working
Speaker 3: with Choptaw Indians and ceremonies and stuff like that they
Speaker 3: do before they go out in the woods and try
Speaker 3: to communicate with them. It was clear as day and
Speaker 3: it's not online. It's not something you can find on
Speaker 3: Google or they internet. They have it in a book.
Speaker 3: They also had a picture of a skull that they
Speaker 3: had found that The audio recordings that just so many
Speaker 3: you couldn't listen to all of them. I'll listen to
Speaker 3: a number of them, and the teeth chattering and the
Speaker 3: weird whistling and other types of stuff, definitely communicating. One
Speaker 3: of the weirdest ones was when we had regrouped, there
Speaker 3: was about five of us on would say probably Saturday
Speaker 3: night when I was down there. We came upon this
Speaker 3: really dark ridge and got out of the truck and
Speaker 3: just walked up and silent and stood there, and it
Speaker 3: sounded like there was a dozen owls that coodd all
Speaker 3: at once, and owls don't typically travel in flocks, and
Speaker 3: we thought that was really odd, but it was all
Speaker 3: at once. It was easily like ten to twelve quote
Speaker 3: unquote owls, But we don't know what they are. It's paranormal.
Speaker 3: It's just out of the ordinary. You don't hear that
Speaker 3: many owl who's all at once. That adds to the mystery.
Speaker 3: But that's the only thing I've seen other than walking
Speaker 3: up and having one try to speak to me. But again,
Speaker 3: I'm looking at a big, dark, black shadow. I'm like
Speaker 3: literally seven feet away from this saying and it's just
Speaker 3: completely blacked out, and I can hear it walking in
Speaker 3: front of me and going, oh like that. It sounded
Speaker 3: like what I said in the email, like Indian Chinese grunting.
Speaker 3: And that was my experience, But I've been fascinated with
Speaker 3: the whole thing ever since having that happen. I think
Speaker 3: it changed me a little bit. It does something to
Speaker 3: your head. It makes you realize that there's another dimension
Speaker 3: out there that you don't see all the time. Sight
Speaker 3: and hearing is a very small part of the real spectrum.
Speaker 3: So there's easily seventy percent of other stuff going on
Speaker 3: that we can't see or hear. There could be lots
Speaker 3: and things. I think one of the most fascinating paranormal
Speaker 3: things I've ever looked into is the you've probably seen
Speaker 3: the documentaries of In the nineteen eighties and nineties, people
Speaker 3: were taking VCR video recorders and putting them into mirrors,
Speaker 3: then using another camera looking into the mirror and creating
Speaker 3: this infinite loop type thing. What was coming out on
Speaker 3: the film was astonishing. There were pictures of people, locomotive trains,
Speaker 3: scribble marks and drawings and other words that were written
Speaker 3: on the film. That stuff. To me, man, that was
Speaker 3: some of the most powerful paranormal evidence I've ever seen
Speaker 3: of anything in the world of complete paranormal. But anybody
Speaker 3: out there that listeners to look it up. I don't
Speaker 3: know why you could find a mirror shine VCR, but
Speaker 3: those tapes or those documentaries should be preserved so people
Speaker 3: can see that there was something very much truly going on. Bizarre,
Speaker 3: absolutely bizarre. I found that just absolutely fascinating.
Speaker 1: Have you heard anything online in the Sierra Sounds or
Speaker 1: any other audio that people have recorded that sounded similar
Speaker 1: to what you experienced during your encounter of this thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the Sierra Sounds, the Samurai chatter, that's exactly what
Speaker 3: it sounds like. It sounds like Japanese and Indian kind
Speaker 3: of mixed together. And it was in my face loud
Speaker 3: and clear. I don't know what it said or what
Speaker 3: it meant, but it wasn't threatening. It was just loud
Speaker 3: and bold and powerful. It hit you. It hit your head,
Speaker 3: It hit your brain. It didn't just hit your ears,
Speaker 3: it hit your brain.
Speaker 1: I've heard that from other people before. I want to
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about some of the evidence and
Speaker 1: things that you mentioned about Arla. The skull fascinates me.
Speaker 1: The picture of this alleged skull that you were talking about,
Speaker 1: and the audio stuff, and obviously the photo of the
Speaker 1: juvenile sasquatch. I've watched a Flash of Beauty a while back.
Speaker 1: I watched it after it first came out. I'd have
Speaker 1: to go back and revisit it to be more familiar
Speaker 1: with who Arla is. Do you have any idea what
Speaker 1: she's doing with that evidence? Is it something that she's
Speaker 1: planning on making public or what is she doing as
Speaker 1: far as the research and her habituation area.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but I think she's got one of
Speaker 3: the best habituation areas and capabilities these things. Trust her,
Speaker 3: And in the documentary, that guy is he's trying to
Speaker 3: get with her, say get me in there. I want
Speaker 3: to see these things. And that's how I got with
Speaker 3: her in the group. I was determined to come face
Speaker 3: to face with one of these like they had claimed
Speaker 3: that had happened many times before. That guy that had
Speaker 3: a gun on him, and the creatures knew. They were
Speaker 3: speaking to him in his head, like why did you
Speaker 3: bring a gun? They knew he had a gun on him.
Speaker 3: That's exactly what you would expect. They warned us going
Speaker 3: in there, no cameras, no guns. They can see them,
Speaker 3: they know they're there. They're not going to come forward
Speaker 3: unless you're completely clean. But you've got nothing on you.
Speaker 3: They're right. They don't come out if you're armed, or
Speaker 3: does you have a camera, And that's part of the
Speaker 3: problem with trying to photograph something dark and black in
Speaker 3: the woods that doesn't come out. If you have a camera,
Speaker 3: it won't come out, or to speak to you. Do
Speaker 3: They have an ability to see in the dark, and
Speaker 3: they can see you playing this day. I think at night.
Speaker 3: They're definitely mostly nocturnal, but there's spend plenty of daytime sightings.
Speaker 3: One of the most believable stories I've ever heard was
Speaker 3: a police officer that saw one picking up a dead
Speaker 3: deer on the highway down south of Ava, Missouri. I
Speaker 3: believe it man because there's sightings down there are dick there.
Speaker 3: They go back literally one hundred years of people reporting
Speaker 3: swamp creature, this or whatever. I thought it was a bear,
Speaker 3: it wasn't. Yeah, there's some pretty compelling stories. But where's
Speaker 3: all the photographs in these days with cameras. I heard
Speaker 3: there was a researcher that gave a group of Native
Speaker 3: Americans up in Northern Canada a bunch of go pros recently,
Speaker 3: thats been the news a little bit i'd heard or
Speaker 3: it been done again, you know, trying to get them
Speaker 3: to get like really solid evidence of these things, you know,
Speaker 3: coming up on you. But yeah, it's a really good question.
Speaker 3: Where are the photos? I sure didn't get any.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I get it. I was in a situation
Speaker 1: where we had a film crew with us, and I
Speaker 1: don't think that we got these things on film. I
Speaker 1: didn't think to get my phone out that was in
Speaker 1: my pocket. I don't know what I would have taken
Speaker 1: a picture of had I done that. I have a
Speaker 1: co host on another podcast I do, called that Bigfoot Podcast,
Speaker 1: and Wayne and I were talking about it recently. On
Speaker 1: another episode, I said, Bob Gimlin, the guy on YouTube,
Speaker 1: not the Bob Gimlin with the Patterson and Gimlin film.
Speaker 1: But this kid, Bob Gimlin's YouTube channel, he did a
Speaker 1: video recently where he was talking about he showed some
Speaker 1: I think it was three or four pictures and videos
Speaker 1: that he claims are pretty much hard to if not impossible,
Speaker 1: for people to hoax or fake that look to be
Speaker 1: sasquatch caught on camera, whether it be a still or
Speaker 1: a video. He had a portion of this video where
Speaker 1: he went to the local zoo and there's several gorillas
Speaker 1: in this enclosure and he's looking down on him, and
Speaker 1: he's taking a photo with his iPhone, a newer iPhone,
Speaker 1: plain beautiful, crisp day, and his photos are blurry. He's
Speaker 1: in a controlled environment, looking at a controlled situation with
Speaker 1: a known creature, and the photo is still blurry. Several
Speaker 1: photos were blurry, even to the point where there was
Speaker 1: one he had to circle. I missed there was a
Speaker 1: baby right next to the mama. I didn't see it
Speaker 1: because it was so blurry. Had to circle it, and
Speaker 1: then I was like, oh, that's a baby gorilla. So
Speaker 1: I get why there's not good evidence when people have
Speaker 1: such quick encounters. Again, it goes back to the habituation sites.
Speaker 1: I think that's a little bit different if you're constantly
Speaker 1: interacting with these things and they trust you. I've heard
Speaker 1: it from people who have these kind of co existence
Speaker 1: habituation situations that they won't let you film them. That's
Speaker 1: part of the relationship I guess, for lack of a
Speaker 1: better word, that they have built with these creatures. So
Speaker 1: it's a catch twenty two for people who want proof
Speaker 1: to say, yeah, this is probably the best place to
Speaker 1: get it, but because because of the way that it's
Speaker 1: set up, we may never get that. And it's the
Speaker 1: same thing with the difference for me between these things
Speaker 1: being flesh and blood and having some sort of extra
Speaker 1: abilities or superabilities that they might possess versus them just
Speaker 1: being something that's completely in the paranormal realm. Let me
Speaker 1: ask you in your opinion in your research when you
Speaker 1: started out some fifteen years ago, were you firmly planted
Speaker 1: in a camp of flesh and blood or you always
Speaker 1: straddle in that fence, and how if that's changed for
Speaker 1: you over the years, how has that changed and how
Speaker 1: do you now look at that Because as an investigator,
Speaker 1: for me, I have to look for a flesh and
Speaker 1: blood creature otherwise I wouldn't even know how to approach
Speaker 1: this and try to get some sort of proof that
Speaker 1: they exist for other people who haven't seen them. So
Speaker 1: how do you deal with that in your approach to
Speaker 1: your research? Then and now?
Speaker 3: Yeah, when I first started out, I was flesh blood
Speaker 3: for sure, one hundred percent. I said, this thing could
Speaker 3: be trapped, it can be shot, it can be killed.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry if I have fed the animal rights people,
Speaker 3: but one of them at that time, it was when
Speaker 3: I talked to the people I was working with, said
Speaker 3: one of them is probably going to have to take
Speaker 3: the fall to prove this once and for all that
Speaker 3: there's a primate running around the woods in North America.
Speaker 3: We need to figure out what's going on and where
Speaker 3: this thing's from, and if that needs to be done,
Speaker 3: if we need to bag one, capture it, by whatever
Speaker 3: we need to do it. I'm a firm believer that
Speaker 3: the mining and logging industries are the ones behind most
Speaker 3: of the cover up for sasquatch, because if you can
Speaker 3: imagine what would happen if a primate was discovered in
Speaker 3: North America, what that would do to logging and mining.
Speaker 3: It would be a disaster for them. So I think
Speaker 3: there's army units that have been used to kill off
Speaker 3: family groups. I'm pretty sure what the people I've talked to.
Speaker 3: I'm a big fan flesh and blood because of the
Speaker 3: boots on the ground research that I've done where I've
Speaker 3: gone to these places and talking to these people that
Speaker 3: would seem this kind of stuff involved. In Tauston, Mexico,
Speaker 3: I saw a body bag and flown from a helicopter
Speaker 3: that was wrapped in black plastic. That was huge. Just
Speaker 3: fly into the sky. What's that? What are they doing?
Speaker 3: I've heard of army units in that area in New
Speaker 3: Mexico that have actually shot and killed family groups. Sheriff's
Speaker 3: officers that have seen the Departments of Land Management, federal
Speaker 3: bureaus showing up where there's been sightings, and these are
Speaker 3: believable people. Man, they're not making this up. But you
Speaker 3: don't photograph that kind of thing. You don't photograph a
Speaker 3: phone called that says, hey, this is the Federal Bureau
Speaker 3: of Investigation. We're coming into your office and they're talking
Speaker 3: about the sighting of some aep looking creature. And then
Speaker 3: some BLM bureaucrats come in and they show up and
Speaker 3: then they wipe the place clean and then they leave.
Speaker 3: What goes on with that, because I've heard lots of
Speaker 3: reports of that kind of stuff. Go on and talk
Speaker 3: to real people that have been former police officers or
Speaker 3: people that have been interviewed. Miguel with Sasquatch theory has
Speaker 3: found some real treasures of people that have come forward
Speaker 3: and told their stories. He had one guest on that
Speaker 3: was absolutely hilarious, but he was telling you that he
Speaker 3: would see this. He was this guy living in the
Speaker 3: woods by himself, and the thing was coming up to
Speaker 3: the house and Miguel asked him, he said, what time
Speaker 3: of night was it? He said, Oh, it was about bedtime.
Speaker 3: That's so genuine you couldn't possibly make that up because
Speaker 3: that's such a backwoods hill billy respella of what time
Speaker 3: was it? It was bed by, not eight o'clock, nine o'clock.
Speaker 3: They don't have clocks, So that really rang a bell
Speaker 3: of genuine sighting someone who had actually seen one of
Speaker 3: these things, because only hill billy big that was really
Speaker 3: living in the woods would answer a question like that.
Speaker 3: That was solid core evidence to me. Man. But Za's
Speaker 3: watch theory has done a lot of good le's kicking along.
Speaker 3: It's got a pretty good following, and it's got some
Speaker 3: pretty down genuine people that come on there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I think most buy and large outside of
Speaker 1: a few. I've posted some of the interviews I've done.
Speaker 1: One recently I did with a cat who seemed to
Speaker 1: be a little out there, and I got some guff
Speaker 1: because of it. But I give this space to everybody
Speaker 1: because who knows, some of these crazy experiences may be
Speaker 1: just as real as that hunter who sees one walking
Speaker 1: across the field when he's on his way to his
Speaker 1: deer stand. I've said this so many times because if
Speaker 1: we exclude those really out there encounters where people say
Speaker 1: that they see them often or all the time, or
Speaker 1: they're getting really close to them, I think there's something
Speaker 1: to be gleaned from that. Every encounter, in my opinion,
Speaker 1: has some data to be mined.
Speaker 2: Out of it.
Speaker 1: That's why I talk to everybody who wants to talk
Speaker 1: about bigfoot, because I think that's important. Outside of the
Speaker 1: habituation situations and some of the things you've already talked about,
Speaker 1: are there any other stories or encounters that stuck out
Speaker 1: to you for one reason or the other. Maybe it
Speaker 1: was something odd, and I'll give you for example, I
Speaker 1: did an interview earlier and I gave the same example
Speaker 1: to a guy Mike. I was talking to the stories
Speaker 1: that people ask me all the time because I talked
Speaker 1: to so many people, what's your favorite encounter story? They're
Speaker 1: all my favorites for one reason or the other, but
Speaker 1: I tend to remember those that have some unique aspect
Speaker 1: to them, whether it was a really scary encounter, they
Speaker 1: got really close, they were threatened, or there was some
Speaker 1: weird thing that you don't normally hear about. And one
Speaker 1: of those things that came up for me last year,
Speaker 1: I think it was, is I had Shane Carpenter and
Speaker 1: Randy Harrington on the show they investigate out of the
Speaker 1: four hundred, and Shane shared with me behind the scenes,
Speaker 1: and then it ended up making it into the show
Speaker 1: about them finding these holes. They're four to six inches,
Speaker 1: sometimes a little bit bigger. They're six to eight inches
Speaker 1: down in the ground in their research area, and sometimes
Speaker 1: they're finding the sticks that they think the sasquatch are
Speaker 1: using to dig these holes. And it was confirmed for
Speaker 1: Shane when he traveled to another nearby state and went
Speaker 1: out with a couple of investigators and he saw one
Speaker 1: of the very same holes with a stick sticking out
Speaker 1: of it, and Shane's what's up with this hole? And
Speaker 1: they go into this conversation and the guy says, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we've been finding these and we have no idea what
Speaker 1: to make of it. So Shane starting to really get
Speaker 1: into that and look into.
Speaker 3: That a little bit further.
Speaker 1: Have there been any kind of anything that you've documented
Speaker 1: people that you've talked to over the last ten years
Speaker 1: or so that have had something like that that stuck
Speaker 1: out to you that is not necessarily in a lot
Speaker 1: of the other encounters or the situations people are having
Speaker 1: with these things.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I spoke with There's a guy from Levenworth
Speaker 3: that was gone down to that Back four hundred habituation
Speaker 3: site and they were taking sharpies and writing numbers on
Speaker 3: rocks and then having the same rocks thrown back at them,
Speaker 3: and I thought that was interesting. And I can't remember
Speaker 3: which guy I talked to, but he was from Levenworth,
Speaker 3: Kansas and he was part of that Back four hundred
Speaker 3: group that was going down there to that site, and
Speaker 3: I thought that was really clever to do that and
Speaker 3: get documentation or video of the rocks actually being thrown
Speaker 3: back into the cam and.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Sasquatch out to see. We'll be
Speaker 1: right back after these messages.
Speaker 3: There was an episode of that had a guy that
Speaker 3: claimed that there was a woman that was raising them
Speaker 3: in their home. That was a pretty compelling story. But
Speaker 3: now being like there in Holden, Missouri and having the
Speaker 3: neighbor actually pause on the phone and then explain to
Speaker 3: me what her dad was seeing twenty some years ago,
Speaker 3: that's pretty compelling, man. And like I said, if you
Speaker 3: were looking at this like a crime scene and looking
Speaker 3: for a murder suspect and they said they'd seen the
Speaker 3: same guy there at four o'clock in the morning, you'd
Speaker 3: be starting making the rest so you'd figure out who
Speaker 3: it was. Yeah, this is just logic, man, And I'm
Speaker 3: trying to bring a lot of logic tudents to try
Speaker 3: to figure out what exactly they are. It would be
Speaker 3: great to be able to communicate with them at some
Speaker 3: point and just try to explain. Can you explain yourself?
Speaker 3: Like in Oklahoma, they're clearly highly intelligent. They can choose
Speaker 3: whether you see them or not. That guy's story that
Speaker 3: with the dark shadowed creatures that he's dead on man,
Speaker 3: he's not making that up. That's exactly what I saw.
Speaker 3: So there, I've got two witnesses right there for you.
Speaker 3: For southeast Oklahoma around the Big Seer area. They do
Speaker 3: like to travel on power lines. We think that they
Speaker 3: run deer, they chase it out of the woods and
Speaker 3: they run it up through power lines and then they
Speaker 3: chase them down or divert them and crush them. Because
Speaker 3: we have followed power lines down in all kinds of
Speaker 3: forested area throughout Missouri and in Colorado, especially east of
Speaker 3: Pike's Pe. So we've got dozens of kill site bone fragments,
Speaker 3: so we can send you of what's exactly what they do.
Speaker 3: They stomp their legs and break their legs so they
Speaker 3: can't run away. Coyotes don't do that, they just don't.
Speaker 3: They too and they leave teeth marks and they drag
Speaker 3: stuff off, but they don't snap bones long wise severe
Speaker 3: violent nap legs. So I got about a dozen photographs
Speaker 3: of the last one I found. I'll definitely get them
Speaker 3: to you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be great, man. This is a question I've
Speaker 1: asked several people that go out of do field investigations
Speaker 1: over the last probably six or eight months. It's been
Speaker 1: my go to question for the field investment stigators that
Speaker 1: are boots on the ground. I know for me, I
Speaker 1: was in a position where I wasn't sure these things
Speaker 1: were real until I saw them for myself. And now
Speaker 1: I know they're real, And now I'm in the situation
Speaker 1: you're in. I want to know everything about what they are,
Speaker 1: why we can't find them more often than we do.
Speaker 1: What are these superabilities? All those things?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 1: So as an investigator, for you, you've had experiences. You
Speaker 1: saw one of these things, this dark shadow, You had
Speaker 1: this thing talking seven feet away from me. As an investigator,
Speaker 1: what keeps you coming back to the well and going
Speaker 1: back into the field and having these conversations. Is it
Speaker 1: for more experiences or is it really just to solve
Speaker 1: the ultimate answer to the big question what are these things?
Speaker 1: And why can't we find them? And why aren't they
Speaker 1: being recognized by science?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I think what I would like to see happen
Speaker 3: is one of the creatures captured in a humane way
Speaker 3: and taken to an observatory where science and everyone in
Speaker 3: the world can come and try to understand what this
Speaker 3: thing is? This the missing link? Is this what soldiers
Speaker 3: were seeing in Vietnam throwing rocks at them. I think
Speaker 3: the whole idea of the Pendeck theory. When Vietnam and Indonesia,
Speaker 3: I think that there's going to be some really compelling
Speaker 3: stuff that comes out of there, that there is some
Speaker 3: other type of orangutang like primate that's humanoid in some way.
Speaker 3: I think you're going to see some really good photos.
Speaker 3: So I've heard from their great mind that there's some
Speaker 3: pretty incredible photographs and encounters that have been captured down there.
Speaker 3: But these people don't post that stuff online. Man, they
Speaker 3: lock it up. They freak out. They think that it's
Speaker 3: worth a million dollars, and they're paranoid, and they put
Speaker 3: it in a storage unit and then they stop paying
Speaker 3: on it. There's all kinds of weird stuff in the
Speaker 3: bigfoot world. People really get freaked out when they have
Speaker 3: good evidence or photographs, and I think that's part of
Speaker 3: the problem, is that there's a paranoia of money around it,
Speaker 3: that it could be worth a million dollars or it's
Speaker 3: like a lot tickets that are blowing in the wind.
Speaker 3: So it's the holy grail of cryptology to prove it
Speaker 3: once and for all. I talked to Adrian ericson. I
Speaker 3: don't know how you feel about the Matilda ordeal and
Speaker 3: what that was all about. But she's a pretty genuine guy.
Speaker 3: I've met with him. I don't see why he would
Speaker 3: fake that kind of evidence.
Speaker 2: But what he is?
Speaker 3: Matilda? Real or fake? What do you think?
Speaker 1: I've always said fake. I've always thought it was fake.
Speaker 3: I don't know what to think of it. Man, I
Speaker 3: don't know why they would do that. And he'ven invest
Speaker 3: that kind of money. Man, he put like three hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty thousand dollars into that whole Sasquatch project? Is
Speaker 3: it to try to make a million dollars by making
Speaker 3: a documentary and faking it? Like Todd standing that kind
Speaker 3: of crap? He's a clown? Are you kidding?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 3: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: I've went out on an expedition with Todd. I went
Speaker 1: up October of twenty three and went out with him
Speaker 1: for seven days in Radium.
Speaker 3: Look.
Speaker 1: I had called him a hoaxer for many years on
Speaker 1: the show. I made no qualms about it how I
Speaker 1: felt about his videos. He invited me up there anyway,
Speaker 1: and I went up and spent seven days in the
Speaker 1: bush and we had some experiences man, I had rocks
Speaker 1: thrown at me. I heard wood Knox, I heard the
Speaker 1: samurai chatterer. There we found some of the weirdest tree structures.
Speaker 1: I'm talking seventy eighty foot tall, fourteen sixteen inch round
Speaker 1: trees propped up on other trees, and weird configurations, just
Speaker 1: some really weird stuff that I considered to be bigfoot activity.
Speaker 1: I don't know what else would have been throwing rocks
Speaker 1: at us. Todd was sitting next to me talking when
Speaker 1: we were getting rocks thrown at us. I know it
Speaker 1: wasn't Todd. We were eighteen miles deep in the wood,
Speaker 1: so nobody else was out there with us. It had
Speaker 1: to be a Sasquatch. And I know the samurai chatter
Speaker 1: happened while we were sitting around the fire and Todd
Speaker 1: was talking. He was literally in mid sentence, and three
Speaker 1: of us heard it like thirty feet away from us.
Speaker 1: So we had experiences up there. But yeah, I think
Speaker 1: I wondered the motivations for people to hoax things. I
Speaker 1: used to say, why in the world would you do that?
Speaker 1: And I think people do it for a far less
Speaker 1: than money. Honestly, the motivations for people to do some
Speaker 1: of the things they've done over the years never ceases
Speaker 1: to amaze me. But I think you'd be surprised when
Speaker 1: it comes down to it, why somebody like that might
Speaker 1: fake Matilda and think there was a million dollars to
Speaker 1: be gleaned from an investment of half a million or whatever.
Speaker 3: So remember the whole incident with Tom Biscardi in the
Speaker 3: Georgia Bigfoot where they found a dead body. Okay, I
Speaker 3: investigated that living shit out of that one, and I
Speaker 3: was on it early when it was on CNN that
Speaker 3: we finally have a body. I'm like, oh shit. It
Speaker 3: was on CNN and there was a whole group of
Speaker 3: people and Biscardi was there. Now, if you look into
Speaker 3: the background of Matthew Witten, this proves that somehow, some
Speaker 3: experts or somebody in the federal government I'm probably a
Speaker 3: three letter acronym agency of some kind got involved in
Speaker 3: this and swapped out the real body for a fake
Speaker 3: guerrillas suit with raccoon guts in it. And here's why,
Speaker 3: Because nobody ever looked into Matthew Witten and what happened
Speaker 3: and how he found it. Matthew Witten found a real
Speaker 3: dead body. I know he did I know for a
Speaker 3: fact he did, because about two weeks before he found
Speaker 3: that dead body, there was an article about a robbery
Speaker 3: that happened at a convenience store. Matthew Witton was shot
Speaker 3: like three or four times. He was a hero police
Speaker 3: officer that was involved in a gun battle with a
Speaker 3: guy robbing like a quick shot in Georgia. So if
Speaker 3: you look in the CNN footage of Matthew Witton when
Speaker 3: he's up on stage, if it's still somewhere online, you
Speaker 3: can see his arm as in traction and his fingers
Speaker 3: have wires coming back on it because he took gunfire
Speaker 3: to his front of his fist and his arm and
Speaker 3: it tore through the cartilage and he was firing back
Speaker 3: and guarding his face from the gunfire. His arm was
Speaker 3: all shredded up from the gunfire from the guy robbing
Speaker 3: the quick shot. He was involved in this incident. He
Speaker 3: was on leave from the police department, on paid leave
Speaker 3: for being a hero, needing to get off the job
Speaker 3: for a while, so he couldn't drive, and he couldn't
Speaker 3: use his right hand. You can see it in the
Speaker 3: video and seeing Emmy's intraction in his right hand. His
Speaker 3: jackets covering up his cast he's got with his arm bend.
Speaker 3: Why in the hell would an honored serviceman, policeman on
Speaker 3: leave after getting shot in the line of duty fabricate
Speaker 3: a story like this. There is no fucking way. There's
Speaker 3: no way that guy, after that event, in living through it,
Speaker 3: would just decide, Oh, I'm gonna hoast the whole world
Speaker 3: and fake and I've got a fake bigfoot body. No,
Speaker 3: he found a real body, and he went back and
Speaker 3: he got some help and they loaded him into the
Speaker 3: back of a truck. On paid leave after being shot
Speaker 3: in the line. I just don't see. That's not the
Speaker 3: mentality of a hero police officer whatsoever to do something
Speaker 3: and fake that. There's no way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'll definitely go back and look into that a
Speaker 1: little bit deeper, because that's an interesting point that you make.
Speaker 1: So do you have a YouTube channel? Is there a
Speaker 1: way people can get in contact with you? Have you
Speaker 1: got anything coming up that you want to promote before
Speaker 1: we get out of here.
Speaker 3: No, you can share my email address if you want it.
Speaker 3: I don't have a website dedicated to Sasquatch or any
Speaker 3: that stuff. I do have a Reddit page that got
Speaker 3: really controversial there were people that were threatening me on
Speaker 3: there and telling me get off the property. Don't make
Speaker 3: you ever come back. A wild story, but I think
Speaker 3: all my contact information is on that Reddit. Pick Carol
Speaker 3: Johnson holding Missouri Bigfoot Encounter. You'll find it on there.
Speaker 1: I will definitely link to it in the show notes
Speaker 1: for folks to check out. Man. I really appreciate you
Speaker 1: coming on, Dave. I have had a good time talking to you.
Speaker 3: Man. Yeah, Man, thank you.
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