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Speaker 1: Right, And I'm just talking about a few hours here.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you fail to pay them for a

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week or two weeks or even the whole month, that

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balloons up.

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Speaker 1: And so you've got huge, huge companies Walmart, Chipotle.

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Speaker 2: I mean you're talking about public companies with legions of

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lawyers that have gotten into problems with failing to pay

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minimum wage or not keeping up with all of California's

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complex labor laws.

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Speaker 3: You are listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network, where

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you get valuable information you just can't find anywhere else

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to thrive in today's trying times. You need the Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever. Go to Financial Survivalnetwork

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dot com and get your free newsletter and gift. Financial

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Survival Network now more than ever.

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Speaker 4: And welcome. This is Financial Survival Network. I'm your host,

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Kerrie Lutz. Happy New Year to all. This is the

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first show I'm recording in the new year. I mean,

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I've only done nine thousand in the past fourteen years.

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It's January sixth, and you know, one of the nice

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things that happens if you're a low age employee, even

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if you're not that low age anymore, come January First, generally,

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many states and municipalities counties raise their minimum wage, so

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you might have gotten a raise and you didn't even

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know about it. If you're an employer, though, this opens

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up a whole Pandora's box because you better be paying

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that minimum wage and not a penny less, because if

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you do, you could get sued. Have an expert on

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with us now, paragu el Amin, attorney from the People's

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Republic of California, and I mean it's great to have

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you on the show. So you're a fast food restaurant

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and you forget to increase your staff's pay because you

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know the bookkeeper missed it, and you don't do it

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for like a month. What can happen to you for

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not paying the state minimum wage in the place like California?

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Speaker 2: Ok, you could be looking at closing doors. I mean

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it is severe. So if you fail to pay minimum wage,

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what can happen for any time work? What can happen

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is you owe them the minimum wage. You're going to

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owe them back pay for every day that you failed

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to pay them, plus interest, and if they sue, you

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have to pay their attorney's fee. So let's say for

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every thousand dollars you fail to pay an employee. Per employee,

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you're probably realistically looking at after even the first month,

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at least three to five thousand dollars that you're going

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to pay per employee.

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Speaker 4: Per employee, Oh my god, you got like thirty forty

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of them that could put you under.

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Speaker 1: Right, And I'm just talking about a few hours here.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you fail to pay them for a

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week or two weeks or even the whole month, that

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balloons up.

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Speaker 1: And so so you've got huge, huge companies Walmart, Chipotle.

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Speaker 2: I mean you're talking about public companies with legions of

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lawyers that have gotten into problems with failing to pay

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minimum wage or not keeping up with all of California's

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complex labor laws.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, so if you forget to pay them for lunch,

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because if they work through their lunch, that's like another

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hour you got to pay them for it, right, And

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if you don't pay them for lunch, you got a

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whole plethora of potential liabilities there too.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you've got two issues.

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Speaker 2: One, they work through their lunch break and let's say

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you didn't pay them, Well, that's a meal missed meal

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and rest break, which is a penalty. And then you

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can have a failure to pay for the time, which

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is a different penalty and different interests.

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Speaker 1: So you can get hit twice in the same violation.

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Speaker 4: And there's like companies out there that haven't been paying

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their workers for years, right for these breaks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 2: And then so what happens then is, so we just

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talked about this example, they worked through the lunch, you

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didn't pay them for the lunch, you didn't give them

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their meal.

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Speaker 1: And rest break. That's a violation.

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Speaker 2: Now the wage statement you gave them and is inaccurate,

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which is another violation.

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Speaker 1: So as you can see, these things balloon up.

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Speaker 2: And so what happens is California enacted the Private Attorney

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General Act, and so the way that works is private

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attorneys are essentially deputized to be able to bring these

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lawsuits on behalf of the state of California against employers,

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including huge ones like Walmart, Chipotle, et cetera.

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Speaker 1: And so what happens is the state.

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Speaker 2: Also gets a huge windfall of money from the recovery,

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over half for penalties, and a percentage of that goes

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to employees, the aggrieved employees, the ones who were actually wronged.

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Speaker 1: And then the government keeps the rest.

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Speaker 2: And the benefit to the state is obviously not only

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does it get this money, but also it didn't have

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to spend any money to get it because it deputized the.

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Speaker 1: Private attorneys doing all the work to go get it.

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Speaker 4: Oh goodness, why does anybody have a business in California.

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That's what I would like to understand.

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Speaker 2: Well, California is still one of the top economy in

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the in the country, the biggest economy it is. It's

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higher than many other countries around the world. So from

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an economic strength perspective, I think it comes down to

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the sheer population that California has, combined with the weather.

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If it didn't have both of those things, I think

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that California would get heavily punished for its policies.

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Speaker 1: M M yeah, so.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, but you know, the states that don't penalize

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their businesses are growing five times faster than the states

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like California, New York, Illinois. You know, any blue state

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you could point your finger at is is growing slower

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than the top red states. So here we have the

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top five by GDP states California three point three trillion,

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Texas one point eight seven trillion, all right, and Texas

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has roughly thirty million people, California has got forty million,

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New York one point five six, Florida is number four

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at one point one point one in Illinois eight seventy five.

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So of those states to the top five, the two

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that have grow in the fastest are the ones that

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hassle their businesses the least.

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Speaker 2: That's I mean, there's certainly something to be said about that, Carrie.

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I think that there should be a balance. I mean,

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even in the numbers that we just heard, you still

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hear that the California is almost twice that of Texas,

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even though the population isn't twice. So there is an

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aspect of doing business in California there is I refer

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to it as the weather tax. A lot of people

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want to be here. Both are the ocean, enjoy the

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nice California weather. But again I think that there's there's

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limitations to what businesses and people are willing to put

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up with. And we've seen a large exodus of businesses

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from California due to California's policies.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you know in Florida. Here they say the wage

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rates are lower than elsewhere in the country. They say

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you get paid in sunshine in Florida. And in addition,

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though we have no state income tax and companies pay

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a smaller income tax. And you know, our government is

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less than our budget is less than half of New

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York States government budget, So a lot of that GDP

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could be artificially inflated by government expenditures because in California

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you got the highest taxes in the country, you got

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the highest paid government workers, all these things. But getting

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back to our main topic here, you know you're basically

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a target. Do you just pay more than the minimum

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wage so you don't have to worry about it? Is

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that what you look to do here? That won't get

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you for the breaks or like they had wash up

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time where you wouldn't pay the employee for five minutes

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while they got their aprons on and their hats, and

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then the state figured out you should have been paying

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them for that, and that turns into like a huge liability.

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Is there any way to avoid all this short of

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moving out.

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Speaker 1: Of the state.

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Speaker 2: No, So what you have to do is, you know,

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it's an interesting question because the question is that, well,

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if I pay more than minimum wage, then do I

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get out of this issue of failure to pay minimum wage,

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And the short answer is maybe, but not really, because

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you get out of one potential problem, which is the

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issue of failure to pay minimum wage is failure to

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pay minimum wage for all time worked. Now, if somebody

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works an hour and they weren't paid, that's still a

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failure to pay minimum wage for that hour. So there's

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that issue, and then you've got a broader issue of

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the penalties in interest are calculated based on what the

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person should have been paid, which can become a complex

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calculation based on the regular time plus potentially overtime and

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bonuses and incentive comp So you could still potentially end

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up paying way more just because you're paying the person more.

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Meaning said differently, if you're paying the minimum wage, your

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penalties and interest, et cetera, would be based on that

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minimum wage. But if you're paying them a higher wage,

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and those numbers are going to be based off that,

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so you're going.

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Speaker 1: To be looking at an overall larger number.

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Speaker 2: So to answer your question, carry the best thing to

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do is just to ensure you're in compliance, which is

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very very difficult to do, but it's absolutely necessary because

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the penalties and the repercussions are so high.

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Speaker 4: Can you can you do an audit to figure out

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if you're screwing up here, and then you go correct

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it on your own so you don't have to worry

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about someone coming after you.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely, So it's a double edged sword.

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Speaker 2: And I've had clients do this because being an attorney

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who helps a lot of business owners with employment and

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business dispute matters, we have clients who will come in

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with this issue. And here's the concern that comes up

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a lot of times is you'll have people who have

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built these companies where, for example, some people really prefer

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to be ten ninety nines.

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Speaker 1: So they say, look these workers.

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's trucking, maybe it's the cleaning business, but regardless

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of what industry it's in a lot of times people

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prefer to be ten ninety nines and that way they

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can write off certain expenses, et cetera. But the problem

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with it is California has a very strict rule with

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who is considered an employee. And there's something called AB

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five Assembly Bill five that was passed that severely restricts

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who can be considered an independent contractor. And so one

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of the requirements has none of the requirements rather have

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anything to do with what the employer wanted or what

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the other person wanted, the independent contractor or the employee,

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that's not really considered and so it's almost impossible to

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pass that three point test.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like Uber drivers are now considered employees, right, well.

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Speaker 2: So there is a special exemption to that. They would

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have been yes, but then there was a proposition that

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was passed to allow them to continue operating in that manner.

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But Uber and Lyft spent a tremendous amount of money,

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talking about billions and billions of dollars to help get

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that proposition passed. But everybody else who's not Uber and

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who's not Lyft in this ride share economy business, they're

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stuck with this with Assembly Bill five because the three

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part test is they have to have an independently established business,

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they have to be in a business that's different than yours,

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and they.

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Speaker 1: Have to be free from your direction and control.

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Speaker 2: All three of those things have to be true for

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them to actually be considered an independent contractor. And if

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they're not passing that test, then they're an employee. And

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what happens is if you ten ninety nine them, you've

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got all the things that we just talked about, including

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failure to pay overtime, which by the way, in California

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is if you go over forty hours a week or

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over eight hours in a day.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of people get that wrong. Or if

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you've got a situation.

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Speaker 2: Where they missed a meal or rest break, you've got

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a problem there. If you didn't pay minimum way for

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all the time, you've got a problem there. And then

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of course you've got all your attorneys fees, and then

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you've got PAGA that we just talked about, which a

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lot of employers don't realize. And what happens is they're

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doing this across scale, multiple people. And so recently we

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settled a PAGA case for a client where they were

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doing everything right, including or seemingly at least they thought,

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including their people are making six figures a year, carry

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six figures.

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Speaker 1: A year, six figures.

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Speaker 4: They're not exactly the people who are being exploited by

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the evil business owners here, that's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And at the end of the day, you know,

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it's the business owners who are barely making it. They

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take all the liability the risk to create this business.

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And the reality is in California, the individual business owner

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is responsible for unpaid wages meaning you cannot just bankrupt

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the business out of it. You cannot close the business

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and not have to pay it. You're personally responsible. And

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to add to that, when it comes to PAGA penalties,

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those you cannot even discharge it bankruptcy. They follow you

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forever because they're considered government penalties that you as a

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matter of public policy and law, you can't get out

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of government penalties by declining bankruptcy.

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Speaker 1: That's nuts.

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Speaker 4: All right? Well, I guess an ounce of prevention is

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worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars of cure. And

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people want to find out more about your parrogue, how

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you can help them in these situations. How did they

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contact you? How did they connect with you on the web?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, my pleasure to help them carry They could reach

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out to me at www dot l awpla dot com.

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That's www dot law pla dot com. And they can

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find me on Instagram or we've got a TikTok.

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Speaker 1: Now it's Pa r A G. So my first name Perogue,

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last name Ami A M I n ESQ.

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Speaker 4: All right, excellent. Well, being a solopreneur, I have some contractors,

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but I'm here in Florida, so I don't have to

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worry about California. I would move if I lived in California.

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I don't care about the weather or whatever. It's almost

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as good here in Florida. Sometimes it's better, sometimes it's

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a little worse in the summer.

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Speaker 1: Whatever.

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Speaker 4: I've got a question for Parrogu or myself, email klatcarrieluts

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dot com. You'll find a link to Prague's site in

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the show notes of this interview on Financial Survival Network

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dot com and just ask when you go there, sign

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up for your free newsletter. Like over sixty thousand other

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FSN community members have prog really appreciate you coming on.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk to you again, so always a pleasure.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for listening to Carrie Letz's Financial Survival Network,

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your solution to today's trying times. For the latest, go

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to Financial Survivalnetwork dot com. Financial Survival Network now more

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than ever