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Speaker 1: Welcome to Popcorn Psychology, the podcast where we watch blockbuster

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movies and psychoanalyze them. My name is Brittany Brownfield and

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I'm a child therapist and I'm joined by Ben Stover,

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individual therapist, Hannah Espinoza, marriage and family therapists. We're all

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licensed clinical professional counselors also known as therapists who practice

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out of Chicago. Even though we are licensed mental health professionals,

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this podcast is purely for entertainment purposes and to fulfill

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our love of dissecting pop culture and all forms.

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Speaker 2: Please remember that even though we are all licensed therapists,

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we aren't your therapist.

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Speaker 1: If you are struggling with mental health symptoms, please find

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a local mental health provider. Spooky Season, Today we are

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talking about Jordan Peele's Nope after random objects falling from

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the sky result in the death of their father, ranch

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owning siblings oj Emerald Heywood attempt to capture video evidence

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of an unidentified flying object with the help of tech

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salesman Angel Torres and documentarian Antler's host. Today, we will

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be talking about Ojy and Emerald's relationship as well as

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Jup's trauma. Then we will have treatment and final thoughts,

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like always. One of the first things I wanted to

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bring up to start the episode is that in the

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opening scene of the film, we see Ojy and Emerald's

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dad die. Yeah, freak accident of things falling from the

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sky goes right through his eyeball coorder or nickel, and

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that's it. That's all she wrote. And so part of

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what we wanted to talk about and what we see

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in the film is the family dynamics and how they

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change after losing the head of the household. Yeah. So

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the movie goes really quickly into six months after the

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dad's death. The opening scene is the death, and then

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we are right into six months later where we're introduced

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to Old who has kind of has classic younger sibling

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energy tendencies, and Og who is sort of like classic

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older siblings tendencies.

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Speaker 2: Yep on time serious, focused on getting the test done,

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adherent to the family story, the family traditions, and the

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younger sibling who is constantly late and disregards pretty much everything,

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but also can turn it on and be the face

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that the older brother cannot be in this family.

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Speaker 1: And I think something we're also made to believe right

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away is that the family business which is wrangling animals

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for Hollywood productions, is struggling. It seems like they're not

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booking as many gigs or they're just they don't have

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like the reputation that they had, like when their dad

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was around. Like their dad can kind of do everything

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he could both think the wrangler and the showman. I

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think the dad is the one who cultivated most of

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their relationships. Yeah, most of the working relationships with Hollywood

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and setting up gigs and setting up different things.

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Speaker 2: Seems like the dad was really fully aware of that.

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Show businesses of relationships and a results business. And it's

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a ass kissing business. It is a respecting people's time

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when they don't respect yours, respecting people's power when they

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don't respect yours. Managing to say yes and keep everybody

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safe and tell a story and make people feel good

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about themselves when they do dumb shit. And we can

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see very clearly Ojay is not good at half of that,

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and his sister isn't good at the other half. Fortunately

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they're both good at their own unique things. Oja is

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great with the animals. Oj understands the safety pieces, but

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he can't communicate with people. He is very reserved and

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shut down, very introverted. He would prefer to be anywhere

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else than on a stage with light shining on him

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and people looking at him, where his sister yearns for

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it lights up under it. But she can't be on time,

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She can't respect people's space, people's business. The fact that

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these studios cost money to be in, that stars cost

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money to have around, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

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Oj couldn't be less interested in that shit. All he's

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trying to be is, hey, we'll get you a shot

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with the horse. Don't do dumb shit with the horse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is another classic movie. This could be on

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the Bengal board of this podcast, which is me saying

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we don't see a lot of these characters prior to

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the events of the movie, and that we don't get

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a good sense of what their personalities were like prior

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to their dad's death. Right, Because something that is very

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notable about Oja right away, kind of going off of

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what you were talking about Ben, is the house shut down.

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He is that he doesn't really make eye contact. He

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seems socially anxious and like you were saying, I think

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Hannah shut down, And it does make me curious how

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much of that is post his dad's death and how

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much of that's just how he presents, because my assumption

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is based on the reaction the director has that opening

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scene that OJ maybe never had the best people skills,

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because when they were like, oh, it's the dad died,

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it's just OJ. Now, that guy was like, oh, oh,

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that's a shame.

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Speaker 2: I think that's likely. I think the dad was a

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very complete Hollywood person and could do all of these things,

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but his children are not. And I think it's very

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likely that OJ has always been a little bit more

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introverted and interested in being with the animals and doing

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things and doing things the right way and just focused

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on nose to the grind getting stuff done, and the

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sister has always been more interested in the show business

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side of it and isn't so attached to the animals.

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You can see throughout the course of the film she

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never goes up to the animal. She's not interested in

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their will being, She's just interested.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think I think that Emerald refuses to work

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with the animals because she was not allowed to be

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trained to work with the animals, and so I think

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that because of that, she is taking out on oj

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the choices that their dad made about who got to

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get trained to be with the horses and who got

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to do the other part. Yeah, and so I really

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feel like she does it out of spite. He asked

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her to help multiple times and she won't even consider

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won't even consider it. She will like literally act like

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she can't hear him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, Spikee doesn't seem like it fits

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her character as much as resistance to like protection self protection,

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I'm not. I'm just done as opposed to like fuck

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your spite's like fuck you.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's a fuck you. I think she's

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a that Like I think she's stuck in almost like

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a teenagery mindset about it. Yeah, Like she there's a

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part of her that's very much stuck in that story

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she tells about Jean Jacket the horse, Yes, where she's like,

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at that time, dad chose to not train me, and

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he was gonna finally like kind of loop me into

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the fold as part of the group of the two

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of you, and he didn't, and he trained you and

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said and he took my horse. And there's a story

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she created in that moment about that event that she

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seems very stuck in well, she's stuck. She's stuck as hell.

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Speaker 2: She's stuck. But it's more angst than it is spie.

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Spite is more in that fuck you dad trained you.

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And I don't think she's holding that energy towards him.

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Speaker 1: She might have, I mean, she does say dad loved

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you more than me. I will. I think what been

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saying is she might have energy towards their dad, or

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maybe when he was like, you don't, But you don't

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feel like she's she's taking out an OJ. I think

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she kind of does in a very sibling esque way

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where you can be having hard feelings instead of recognizing

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that you're just in pain, you're kind of like taking

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it out on the other simplane. Absolutely, And I think

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that's also not uncommon when you have unresolved beef with

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a parent who passes that she doesn't really have the

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opportunitymore to hash that out with her dad. They never

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got to a point where she was let into the

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fold of the training. So this is an unresolved story

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for her, and so where does she put that energy?

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But an OJ who doesn't feed into her really, which

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I think maybe that's why it's hard to they don't

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get a lot of active conflict because he doesn't really

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do that.

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Speaker 2: He doesn't feed into anybody's anything. He says, Nope, he

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is aware. He reads animals, he reads behavior. He is

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a behavior expert. He reads it and interprets it, and

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he knows. Nope, you see it. That's his recurring things.

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Why is the title moment? Nope?

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Speaker 1: And I think that Emerald and no Jaer is such

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like good examples of what happens between siblings when they

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no longer have sort of their like they're touchstone, like

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the thing that connects them, which is their parents. When

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your parents run around to keep you connected to each other,

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you now all of a sudden now have to figure

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out how to be connected on your own, Yeah, and

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communicate more intentionally. The feeling I got is, even though

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they are working together, they don't feel like they talk

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a lot. They feel really distant. They don't feel like

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they're on the same page, to the point where I'm like,

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do they work together or she just helping him out

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like post his dad's debt to do kind of like

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the Razzle Dazzle, because she seems so disconnected from yeah,

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the business.

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Speaker 2: Well, they have clear different attachments to it. When he's like,

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stop acting, Like if this is your sidegig, she said

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straight up to him, this is my side gig. Her

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acting and all her other stuff that she's trying to

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build for herself in her mind is her business. So

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I think recognizing that when you have a family business

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and the figurehead passes away, there's often a very different

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sense of connection and a connection and attachment to the

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business and the relationship people had with it and why

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they're trying to keep it on. She wants to keep

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it on because it's paying the bills, whether she wants

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to admit that in her angsty self or not. I

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don't think her anything is taking off, or she wouldn't

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have been sliding that in in the classic Hollywood actor

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way of like, by the way, I also wrote a screenplay,

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and I'm a director, and I'm an actress, and I

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do all these things and I can do everything. Please

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just God hire me so that I can make my

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dreams come true. Thank you. Your bill is forty seven

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to fifty, but he is clearly rooted in it. It

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means a lot to him. He is connecting to that

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as his way to honor his dad and keep the

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family business alive, where she just wants the story to

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stay alive.

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Speaker 1: I think she does like the razzle dazzle of the

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story of that we're connected to, like the great great,

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great great great our great grandfather is the guy who

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was the first person on a film, And I think

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he just is like, yeah, like you're saying, this is

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our family business, and I'm just trying to what does

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he say, I got mouse to feed? He seems very

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rooted in the work ethic part of it, like keep

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your nose to the grindstone, trying to keep this farm afloat,

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trying to continue stability. Probably also honor our dad by

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not dive bombing his long, long, long generational family business. Yeah,

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like the first year of him passing, and how he's

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actually not quite able to do that because he's having

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to sell all the horses, which is so sad, and

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that he's not telling her about that either.

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Speaker 2: No, he's not. And it's clear that they're not partners,

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that they don't trust each other, they don't have the

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same sense of connection to things. And it is a

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routine problem when there's been a death because generally speaking

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that whoever's the head of the family has the keys

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to the kingdom and runs it their way, and everything

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runs through them, and they know all the secrets, they

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know all the ins and the outs, and they let other

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people in. But once they go, if other people aren't

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finding their life's purpose by doing what they did, and

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it and or it doesn't work for them the same way,

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because they're an entirely different person, and it's an absolutely

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unreasonable expectation. Lots of conflict, lots of struggles. How many

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times have we encountered clients who come in after there's

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been a death and their whole family just blew up.

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Speaker 1: I also think when people are in are experiencing grief

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symptoms in general, during that time when everything you know,

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a lot of decisions have to be made after someone passes,

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and especially if you have a business, and so because

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so many decisions have to be made at once, there

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always ends up being a head person who just who

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either knows the business the best or everybody trusts the most,

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who ends up taking it over. And that is the

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person who does everything with it. But that it often

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almost always creates a conflict.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because all those decisions have to be made, Yeah,

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when everyone is still dissociated. Yeah, and they're only coming

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in and out of being in pain being especially when

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it's a sudden death like this one. This wasn't planned for.

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Dad was clearly still actively working and planning to work

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for a while. He wasn't handing over the keys.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't retired in anyway it seemed yet.

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Speaker 2: Nope, and didn't seem like he was even thinking about it.

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Speaker 1: Definitely not.

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Speaker 2: And when that happens, that sudden death leaves more dissociation

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as opposed to people who have had the opportunity to

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slow grieve. Where you see someone deteriorating, you see someone

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not being themselves, not being capable, so you naturally have

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to start taking on a new role. None of that

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happened here. So the two children are struggling greatly with

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picking up the pieces. And when someone dies and you

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have to make all those decisions quickly while you can't

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even tolerate your own pain or reality because everything is shattered.

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You're making no decisions with parts of yourself, and that

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usually doesn't represent the full spectrum of your personality, your wants,

255
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your desires, your needs. You're just doing whatever you feel

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like you had to do in the moment and might

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resent that choice later.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it makes me curious with OJ's presentation, it's

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the culmination of the grief we're talking about. Maybe this

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is also of his natural personality being more introvert and

261
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uncomfortable being on stage literally and then two burnt out.

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We're seeing him at the tail end of like six

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months of taking over the family business and making all

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those decisions not planned and not doing it as well

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as he needs to because he doesn't have the showman

266
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part of it and the relation part of it, and

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because he can't rely on Emerald, and so he is

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having to make all these tough, really sad decisions. And

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I would imagine that's also part of the ongoing grief

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for him. Is am I going to also lose my

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dad's farm. I'm losing all his horses, peace by piece,

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and I'm hoping I can buy them back one day

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from Jupiter Jupe, but I don't know that, and I

274
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can't rely on my sister. So the pressure of all

275
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those decisions and stress, how could he not be maybe

276
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even making silly mistakes, like even in the opening scene

277
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on this film set, I wonder too, with like not

278
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maybe handling that well, if that's also part of him

279
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,399
like not very being not very present m hm, and

280
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maybe not being as assertive about those directions as he

281
00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,200
needs to be, because when you go through something like that,

282
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your brain is like not with you all the time.

283
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Speaker 2: No, he's I mean, that's what dissociation is, right, he's

284
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only running in safe mode if he's struggling to cope

285
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with the guilt and the loss and the loss of

286
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,679
those horses that he's clearly attached to each one of

287
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those that he sold. I'm sure he knew their name.

288
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I'm sure he had a relationship with them. I'm sure

289
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he fed and raised them, and letting go of each

290
00:16:42,039 --> 00:16:45,519
one probably broke his heart into another fragmented piece.

291
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Speaker 1: What's awful is he doesn't even know that he's selling

292
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those horses to be fucking alien food. Yeah, and that

293
00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:56,399
he's never he was that jupe guy, was never planning

294
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to sell those back to him, Oh no, because he

295
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was to feed them to it. Yeah.

296
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Speaker 2: It's not great, and for him to be experiencing all

297
00:17:06,599 --> 00:17:09,279
of that that would lead him to be even more

298
00:17:09,319 --> 00:17:13,519
shut down, even more fragmented as he's struggling to grapple

299
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with his own grief. And failures in realizing he can't

300
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be his dad, he can't be like him, He can't

301
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just turn on all that stuff. He needs his sister

302
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and she won't show the fuck up.

303
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Speaker 1: Before we jump into Emerald, how about we take a

304
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break here. Also, if you would like to at this

305
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:34,119
time leave us a rating and review where every listener podcasts.

306
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,039
I really appreciate it is the best way for new

307
00:17:36,079 --> 00:17:38,960
people to find us, and we always appreciate them and

308
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:40,319
read them. Thank you.

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00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 2: And speaking of those, we mentioned our lovely bingo game

310
00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,000
that we always reference as if it's an actual real thing,

311
00:17:48,119 --> 00:17:52,519
Well it is now one of our kind listeners. Eva

312
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:54,440
made one for us and we'll be happy to share

313
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:57,440
it with you guys. So hopefully you guys enjoy that

314
00:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,680
and enjoy her work because it's a really great culmination

315
00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:03,559
of all the nonsense that you hear from our mouths

316
00:18:03,559 --> 00:18:06,519
all the time. And somebody really cared a lot about

317
00:18:06,519 --> 00:18:09,279
the show, took a minute to make something like that

318
00:18:09,319 --> 00:18:11,000
for us, and we really appreciate those kinds of things.

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Wanted to throw shout out to Eve and say thank

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you for that.

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Speaker 1: You can find it on our Instagram if you're interested.

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Emerald kind of the same with OJ. I sort of

323
00:18:21,079 --> 00:18:22,599
want to give her the benefit of the doubt. Is

324
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:25,400
I wonder how much of what we're seeing of her

325
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,720
now is maybe also a product of losing their dad

326
00:18:29,799 --> 00:18:34,000
and feeling aimless. And that seems like she's maybe sleeping around,

327
00:18:34,759 --> 00:18:39,319
She's maybe doing a little like being very cavalier, smoking

328
00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:41,039
a lot. She's vaping a lot in the movie. I

329
00:18:41,039 --> 00:18:43,559
don't know if she's vaping weed or just vaping nicotine.

330
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:49,759
That she seems to be kind of just acting, yeah,

331
00:18:49,759 --> 00:18:53,440
acting young, just acting unreliable, and drinking a lot. She

332
00:18:53,519 --> 00:18:55,359
drinks a lot in the movie too. She has a

333
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:59,000
lot of goofing off, And I wonder how much of

334
00:18:59,039 --> 00:19:00,880
that is how she's always and I assume it is

335
00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:02,799
just the way that OJ treats her. But I also

336
00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:06,720
wonder if a lot of those things have exacerbated at

337
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:09,480
this time where her dad has died and she doesn't

338
00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,240
get to, like I said, resolve all of those loose

339
00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,920
ends she had with him about who she is within

340
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,839
the business and who she is to him, and yeah,

341
00:19:20,839 --> 00:19:24,400
what is her relationship to this work and does she

342
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:26,400
want a relationship to this work? And it's all just

343
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,039
hanging out there and she can't really take a break

344
00:19:29,039 --> 00:19:31,680
to figure that out because Oja, like you said, Ben

345
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:32,839
needs her.

346
00:19:33,279 --> 00:19:37,599
Speaker 2: And she needs him because her stuff isn't working. Getting

347
00:19:37,599 --> 00:19:39,680
anything to work in Hollywood is extremely difficult. It's not

348
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,480
a slight on her, it's just it's extraordinarily difficult. Most

349
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:46,720
people fail, and being an actor or anything involved in

350
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:53,359
show business is an act of accepting rejection permanently, and

351
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,640
many people struggle with that, particularly because they tend to

352
00:19:56,680 --> 00:20:02,839
be folks like myself who thrive on attention and need it,

353
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:05,759
going with.

354
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:08,720
Speaker 1: I didn't know that's what you're in a savent.

355
00:20:09,119 --> 00:20:11,759
Speaker 2: I am an attention horror and I am accepting of

356
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:14,799
that fact. Anybody who knows me understands that, and it's okay.

357
00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,880
But the people who really thrive on that, and it's

358
00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:23,960
their business to do so, need it and they don't

359
00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:27,680
function well without it, and if they can't find a

360
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,680
way to do it in a way that provides for them,

361
00:20:31,319 --> 00:20:36,359
they set up complexes for themselves. And she is very

362
00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,039
clearly an embodiment of that, which I'm sure Jordan Peel,

363
00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:44,839
being someone who likely struggled to find his footing, understands

364
00:20:44,839 --> 00:20:49,400
full well because he's both lived that life and now

365
00:20:49,759 --> 00:20:52,319
made it on both sides of the camera, and I'm

366
00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:54,559
sure writing her is an homage to that. But people

367
00:20:54,599 --> 00:20:59,640
who get into that place will often resentfully do the

368
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,319
thing that makes some enough money to survive, and I

369
00:21:02,319 --> 00:21:05,359
think that's very clearly what we're seeing her do. She

370
00:21:05,480 --> 00:21:09,400
has a resentful, angsty relationship with the business. She couldn't

371
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:12,160
resolve the things with her dad that kind of broke

372
00:21:12,319 --> 00:21:15,000
her meaning and purpose to it. So she made her

373
00:21:15,039 --> 00:21:19,160
meeting and purpose trying to be a showbuz person and

374
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,920
it's not working for her yet. But she's also not

375
00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:24,720
working this job in a way that's going to work

376
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,279
for that business, and that leaves her kind of stuck

377
00:21:27,319 --> 00:21:30,640
in the middle in a very teenager replace and we

378
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,519
see her seeking escape quite often.

379
00:21:33,279 --> 00:21:38,079
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I wonder even she has undiagnosed ADHD because

380
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:40,039
the way she comes off to like when they go

381
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:42,680
meet with Jube and she wants up asking questions and

382
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:45,000
she's walking around his office and she's spoken its uf

383
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:48,480
interrupting and not there, and she's never on time, like

384
00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,839
I think there's also a possibility that she's got these

385
00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:54,279
other parts of it, and that would obviously make a

386
00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:57,440
career where you have to be your own boss. Whatever

387
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,799
she's going to do very difficult. I want to give

388
00:22:00,799 --> 00:22:02,920
her the best of the down. Say, maybe she's undiagnosed ADHD,

389
00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:07,200
and not that she's just like a thoughtless, immature asshole,

390
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:09,880
because that is how she comes off or the beginning scenes.

391
00:22:10,079 --> 00:22:13,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, if she has ADHD, which is a

392
00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:17,200
plausible explanation for her behavior, I don't think she's I

393
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,880
don't think either of them are broken assholes. I think

394
00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:23,839
they're just representations of personality types and that some people

395
00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:26,559
just are the way that they are. There may be

396
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:32,240
dysfunction in things. I think the evidence for her behavior

397
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:36,079
of interrupting and being late all the time and being

398
00:22:36,160 --> 00:22:40,839
unable to focus and liking to do lots of things.

399
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,720
Speaker 1: And not able to remember like the one important thing

400
00:22:43,759 --> 00:22:46,680
about the speech she gives, which is safety protocol.

401
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: Yep, she definitely covered none of that. Definitely. Don't stand

402
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:52,240
behind the horse.

403
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:54,279
Speaker 1: No, look, don't make contact. Oh look at the horse

404
00:22:54,319 --> 00:22:55,160
and the eyeballs.

405
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, and those don't.

406
00:22:57,359 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 1: Put a fucking flash in their eyes.

407
00:22:59,759 --> 00:23:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

408
00:23:00,839 --> 00:23:03,680
Speaker 1: Those are a mirror, Yeah, a big mirror. Yeah, that's

409
00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:04,279
what it was.

410
00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:08,759
Speaker 2: Don't do the things that are jumb but she could

411
00:23:08,759 --> 00:23:13,440
only cover the story why are we important? Yeah, which

412
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,720
left everybody else in the room going narrowing their eyes

413
00:23:17,759 --> 00:23:20,680
and looking at it. Wasn't okay, so we're just good, cool,

414
00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,279
We're good, we can do whatever we want. That went poorly. Yeah,

415
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:28,400
hallmarks of ADHD, but also hallmarks of people who are

416
00:23:29,559 --> 00:23:35,359
more of the extroverted type of personality. Say, where's the line?

417
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,680
She may be across it, but you may even know

418
00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:39,319
other people who don't have an ad she that aren't.

419
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: What I was thinking about, Emerald is that I also

420
00:23:42,759 --> 00:23:45,200
wonder if she is. And you guys can tell me

421
00:23:45,240 --> 00:23:48,799
what you think about this, because I think the experience

422
00:23:48,839 --> 00:23:51,759
that happened where the dad didn't end up training her

423
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:54,359
was also when she was young, and so I wonder

424
00:23:54,680 --> 00:24:01,200
sometimes when parents die, sometimes people can regress a little bit.

425
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:04,839
And I wonder if she's kind of regressing back to

426
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,960
this point in her life where she had a lot

427
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:09,640
of options or she thought that she had options that

428
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:11,480
she would be able to do. So she's kind of

429
00:24:11,519 --> 00:24:14,359
like stuck. Her part is kind of stuck in this

430
00:24:14,559 --> 00:24:17,599
younger kind of frame of mind because because what I

431
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,119
do feel like and I totally agree, like I don't

432
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,079
think that she's just a self centered prick like I like,

433
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,240
even though I literally because I say that too, because

434
00:24:26,279 --> 00:24:30,119
the arc of the story proves different. You gets stuck

435
00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:33,759
at an age, right, so you get stuck at an

436
00:24:33,759 --> 00:24:38,559
age where you experience this original trauma. And so I

437
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,039
wonder if a part of her behavior and the way

438
00:24:41,039 --> 00:24:42,960
that she's kind of regressed a little bit has to

439
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,440
do with that, that that is the time where maybe

440
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,880
it felt like she had more options and more things

441
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,480
that she could do, and now she's in a place

442
00:24:52,519 --> 00:24:57,599
where she can only do certain things. Too, she's definitely

443
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,440
being very all or nothing, yes, very black and white.

444
00:25:00,640 --> 00:25:02,920
And also too, maybe the way her grief is presenting

445
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:04,960
as well is maybe she's having a hard time being

446
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,240
around the horses. Maybe they make her think of her dad.

447
00:25:07,839 --> 00:25:10,640
So also the part of her that's acting kind of bratty,

448
00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:13,839
I think more bratty is how she comes off. Yeah, yeah,

449
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,240
and like I can't hear you when her brother's trying

450
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:22,000
to get her to help with the horses. I don't know,

451
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,759
Maybe she is a hard time being around them, Maybe

452
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,960
she's a hard time being on the farm. She's choosing

453
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,960
to sleep in a trailer on the property, even though

454
00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,720
they have a huge house, like there could be also

455
00:25:34,759 --> 00:25:36,920
a lot going on there because I think where I

456
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:39,680
also want to give her the benefit of the doubt

457
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,759
is how much she grows in this movie that she

458
00:25:43,799 --> 00:25:52,400
actually has a lot of intelligence, love consideration once she's

459
00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,599
able to access that through the events of the movie.

460
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,759
And she's not just looking out for herself. She is

461
00:26:00,799 --> 00:26:03,200
thinking about her brother, and she is thinking about the

462
00:26:03,279 --> 00:26:08,799
situation at hand, and she is thoughtful and smart. She's

463
00:26:08,839 --> 00:26:13,480
not just a dingling who wants the hot shot and

464
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,160
then she must move on with her life. So it

465
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,559
does make Yeah, I think we're onto something perhaps of

466
00:26:17,599 --> 00:26:23,880
where maybe some of this obnoxiousness is her not dealing. Yeah,

467
00:26:23,920 --> 00:26:26,119
And I think and I think mentioning all of the

468
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,799
different ways that she was maybe self soothing by using

469
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:32,720
the vape, by drinking alcohol, that she was doing all

470
00:26:32,759 --> 00:26:35,519
of those things because she is so uncomfortable and most

471
00:26:35,559 --> 00:26:37,359
of the times we see her drink she's in the house.

472
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:42,920
Oh that's true. Yeah, I think those are glaring music.

473
00:26:43,519 --> 00:26:46,359
Speaker 2: She's doing a lot of things to take her back

474
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:49,240
out of the experience she's having by being concretely in

475
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,680
that space. Yah, which your senses can't be negotiated with.

476
00:26:53,359 --> 00:26:56,039
She is in the house, she is seeing all of

477
00:26:56,079 --> 00:26:59,559
the things that are in the house. So the only

478
00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:03,759
option if you can't escape physically is to escape mentally,

479
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:07,279
and that's what she does. And it's not uncommon to

480
00:27:07,279 --> 00:27:13,039
see people get really obnoxious and avoid when they're going

481
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,799
through a big loss, especially a sudden one, because they

482
00:27:15,799 --> 00:27:18,000
don't want to fucking deal with it, or they can't

483
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:20,160
and they look at it and go like nope.

484
00:27:20,319 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 1: Because watching this now with my therapist eyes, I was

485
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:28,400
seeing so many moments where you can see something flash

486
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:32,839
over Emerald's face where she wants to connect with oj,

487
00:27:33,319 --> 00:27:36,200
where she's having a feeling and she's looking at the

488
00:27:36,240 --> 00:27:38,799
back of his head as he's walking away from her,

489
00:27:39,279 --> 00:27:42,079
and you can tell that she wants to make a

490
00:27:42,079 --> 00:27:46,119
bit of connection to him, but she can't. Either she's

491
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,119
not aware that's really what she wants, or she doesn't

492
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,400
know how to do it, so she will say something Braddy,

493
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:53,319
or be like, why don't we do this together, let's

494
00:27:53,319 --> 00:27:57,039
get drunk, or she'll she's trying to connect with him,

495
00:27:57,559 --> 00:27:59,960
but she's going about it in a way that doesn't

496
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:05,799
actually communicate to him why that's important to her and

497
00:28:05,839 --> 00:28:08,279
why she is trying to like spend time with him

498
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,640
and do all this goofing offfee kind of stuff with him.

499
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,160
And that's also where I wonder even how much maybe

500
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:20,480
their dad would overcompensate for or just accommodate for their

501
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,279
differences in personality and communication style, that they were able

502
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:28,240
to maybe kind of use their dad as a bridge

503
00:28:28,519 --> 00:28:37,079
between Ojy's really isolated introverse introversion and her very big

504
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,559
extraversion because they're not they're both not great communicators. Yeah,

505
00:28:41,799 --> 00:28:44,279
and when you're siblings and you have a parent between

506
00:28:44,319 --> 00:28:46,359
the two of you, you don't necessarily have to work

507
00:28:46,359 --> 00:28:50,000
on being better communicators while they're around, but once they're gone,

508
00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:52,200
you do have to do that. And you can see

509
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,559
at the beginning of the movie she's trying, but she

510
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:00,720
can't connect her desire or even her insight. She has

511
00:29:00,759 --> 00:29:06,079
it with her action, and so obviously he doesn't understand

512
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,720
why she's doing the things that she's doing other than

513
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,319
the fact that she's not helping him and how he

514
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,240
perceives it, and so it just continues, unfortunately, this moat between.

515
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:21,359
Speaker 2: Them without something like an alien presence trying to eat everyone.

516
00:29:22,799 --> 00:29:25,680
I don't know that they would have recovered from without

517
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:30,640
something coming back to or requiring them to get in

518
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:35,640
the moment right now with everything that you are. I

519
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,319
don't know that they would have recovered. I think they

520
00:29:38,319 --> 00:29:41,400
would have continued splitting down the path for quite a while,

521
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:46,480
and that moat space between them may have gotten irreparable.

522
00:29:47,799 --> 00:29:51,759
Speaker 1: Absolutely, And you see this in real life with clients.

523
00:29:51,799 --> 00:29:54,960
You see relationships falling off and people not talking to

524
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,200
each other after someone's past like it's common for it's

525
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,079
common for some of them. Those things to happen where

526
00:30:01,119 --> 00:30:02,880
either road together or we girl apart.

527
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: Important to point out that if people can't actualize into

528
00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:11,960
themselves and do it their own way while honoring the

529
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,720
traditions of the family, if somebody passes that, the rest

530
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,119
of the family is likely to fall off because it's

531
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:22,160
going to feel like an approximation. It's going to be

532
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,359
either too much for one person who will stop doing it.

533
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,839
Let's use holidays as an example of this. Christmas has

534
00:30:28,880 --> 00:30:31,720
always done one particular way or whatever big holidays, right,

535
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:34,119
It's always done one particular way. And when the matriarch

536
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,720
or patriarch or whoever passes away yep or can no

537
00:30:38,799 --> 00:30:43,079
longer complete that ritual. It's going to happen a new

538
00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:46,519
way that people are going to drive with or they're not.

539
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:48,799
And one person may try to do it just like

540
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,599
Mom and may call Mom's food, and then they're going

541
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:54,960
to take all that pressure on, and everybody else is

542
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,079
still going to be like, yeah, I don't know, Mom's

543
00:30:57,119 --> 00:31:00,559
not here, this doesn't taste like moms. Yeah, And if

544
00:31:00,559 --> 00:31:02,920
that person couldn't do well, we're trying this thing, and

545
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,720
we're going to do this thing, or we're gonna remember

546
00:31:04,799 --> 00:31:06,519
Mom this way, but we're also going to try these

547
00:31:06,559 --> 00:31:09,920
new things that let all of us step forward into

548
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:11,880
the family and run things, and we're gonna do a

549
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,960
holiday this way this time. What's likely to happen is

550
00:31:15,359 --> 00:31:18,640
everybody either puts all the pressure on the family mascot

551
00:31:19,359 --> 00:31:21,559
and says, good, you do it just like Mom did.

552
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:23,880
Do everything just like you, get all Mom's stuff, get

553
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,759
all the dishes, make sure everything tastes exactly the same,

554
00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:27,359
and take all that pressure on and we'll do nothing.

555
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880
Or two people fight over it, or it becomes a

556
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,880
big mess and it happens once and never again. Yeah,

557
00:31:36,119 --> 00:31:37,640
can be some of the ways these things go. With

558
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:41,240
practical examples, and we will see clients come in struggling

559
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:44,680
that all their traditions are gone, all their supports are gone,

560
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:48,279
anybody they're connected to is leaving them, and we see

561
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:49,839
some of that in this film.

562
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: And also oj and Emerald seem so isolated, like it

563
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,440
seems like their family was just the two of them

564
00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:01,359
and their dad. Their mom isn't around. I assume she.

565
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,000
I might have missed this in the movie, but I

566
00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,640
assume she died when they were kids. There's like, no

567
00:32:06,039 --> 00:32:09,160
mom doesn't like exist in this movie. There's a picture

568
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,680
of it, but there's no mention of her, there's no

569
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:12,440
discussion of her.

570
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:12,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

571
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,680
Speaker 1: I just assumed she died when they were kids. I

572
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,519
don't know why. And so it does seem like all

573
00:32:18,559 --> 00:32:21,599
they have is each other, and so kind of what

574
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,839
you're saying, Ben is Ojan and Emil just feel like

575
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:29,559
two lost people who are floating in the ocean, and

576
00:32:29,599 --> 00:32:31,440
they want to be able to grab each other and

577
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:33,799
depend on the other, but they can't. They can't find

578
00:32:33,839 --> 00:32:38,039
each other. And then what this alien situation does is

579
00:32:38,079 --> 00:32:40,640
it gives them a group project. It gives them something

580
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,319
that they can focus on and be able to depend

581
00:32:44,359 --> 00:32:47,839
on each other about because she knows all the flashy

582
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:52,039
shit about getting the cameras and where to put it

583
00:32:52,079 --> 00:32:54,440
on the internet because I don't even know, well, he

584
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,880
doesn't have a smartphone. They should that he is a

585
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,160
flip phone. In the very begining of the movie, that

586
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,359
probably was to establish that he is very old school, yes,

587
00:33:03,359 --> 00:33:06,799
and she's very new school. Yeah. And so this is

588
00:33:06,799 --> 00:33:10,480
a moment where she's able to show her strengths and

589
00:33:10,559 --> 00:33:14,319
be dependable actually, and he's able to show his strengths

590
00:33:14,599 --> 00:33:17,240
and be dependable actually, And they start to listen to

591
00:33:17,319 --> 00:33:20,720
each other and take each other seriously, Like he goes

592
00:33:20,759 --> 00:33:23,440
to the circuit city or whatever fries with her to

593
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,720
get the shit and she listens to him too, and

594
00:33:27,079 --> 00:33:30,440
they it gives them something to focus on that's not

595
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:33,559
let's talk about dad dying and the fact that I

596
00:33:33,599 --> 00:33:36,759
don't know who I am anymore right now, and you

597
00:33:36,799 --> 00:33:38,920
don't know who you are right now and you're trying

598
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,519
to figure it out. Having something to focus on, a

599
00:33:42,599 --> 00:33:45,279
project that you can lean on each other about is

600
00:33:45,319 --> 00:33:50,119
really helpful, and it helps them develop individually and helps

601
00:33:50,119 --> 00:33:53,680
them develop together. I mean, this movie ends the starts

602
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,680
with them is them connecting again with that eye thing

603
00:33:56,759 --> 00:33:59,720
he does where he's like, I'm seeing you, so then

604
00:33:59,799 --> 00:34:03,440
you to do as kids. And I think, I guess

605
00:34:03,519 --> 00:34:05,519
what it helps about is not just like them noticing

606
00:34:05,599 --> 00:34:09,280
their strength with themselves, but also I feel like this

607
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,559
project help them remember that they love each other if

608
00:34:14,599 --> 00:34:18,519
nothing else, absolutely, because it becomes and eventually it becomes

609
00:34:18,559 --> 00:34:23,239
about protecting each other. Yes, and so it changes from

610
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:26,679
let's just make a lot of money off of having

611
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:30,960
a UFO siding to I want to keep you safe

612
00:34:31,039 --> 00:34:33,280
and I see you and I care about you. And

613
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,960
I think with Emerald, that's a lot of what she's

614
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,920
looking for. Like all the times that she's staring at

615
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,079
the back of OJ's head, what she's really wanting is

616
00:34:40,079 --> 00:34:43,920
pay attention to me, be with me. I want to

617
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,639
spend time with you. I want to know that I'm

618
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,320
important to you because I don't do the business well

619
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,760
and I've never done the training well or at all,

620
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:54,639
And so I think that's such an important moment for her.

621
00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: It is, and I think visually when that becomes super

622
00:35:00,039 --> 00:35:02,559
concrete to us as an audience, as he's riding the horse,

623
00:35:03,199 --> 00:35:05,559
he flips his hood up and has eyes on the

624
00:35:05,599 --> 00:35:06,320
back of his head.

625
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,639
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I didn't even think about that because it's

626
00:35:09,639 --> 00:35:13,519
to fuck with the alien, but it's also symbolic. I

627
00:35:13,519 --> 00:35:15,239
think one of the other parts of them having this

628
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,760
project is also that it's something new. Right, So there's

629
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:21,880
no this is what we did last time, there's no

630
00:35:22,079 --> 00:35:24,960
you should do it like this, there's no this is

631
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,960
a new situation, which means they're both allowed to pick

632
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:31,880
their role instead of being as signed their role, and

633
00:35:32,599 --> 00:35:36,960
that feels like that's I think that's what opens them

634
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,639
both up to each other. They're writing new scripts scripts,

635
00:35:40,679 --> 00:35:45,599
this is a new story because now this is about us. Now,

636
00:35:45,639 --> 00:35:49,119
this is about us saving the farm and maybe humanity

637
00:35:49,119 --> 00:35:54,480
and maybe humanity but probably not, yeah, probably not. Just

638
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:55,239
just that thing was.

639
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,920
Speaker 2: Huge, right, Well, it's like what I was saying with

640
00:36:00,199 --> 00:36:03,559
the Christmas tradition thing. Yeah right, it's exactly that they

641
00:36:03,599 --> 00:36:07,280
had to actualize into themselves as they are in this

642
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:11,320
moment without trying to repeat Dad yes, and let each

643
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,679
other fill the roles in a split form in whatever

644
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:17,760
ways they can, and trust like, Okay, you do all

645
00:36:17,760 --> 00:36:22,000
this tech shit and I'm gonna do all of the

646
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,480
behavior of some stuff, and I'm gonna trust that you're

647
00:36:25,519 --> 00:36:27,119
gonna do your thing. And I'm gonna do my thing,

648
00:36:27,119 --> 00:36:29,960
and we're gonna meet this together, and you know, each

649
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:32,039
of us will get our help, and then it'll take

650
00:36:32,119 --> 00:36:41,559
both of us to wrangle antlers. Yes, because without without

651
00:36:41,559 --> 00:36:46,079
Emerald like lashing onto his tech savvy and his thing

652
00:36:46,119 --> 00:36:48,440
and understanding that this is the guy, this is the

653
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,239
guy who's gonna want this, and we're gonna need him

654
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,880
to make this money and to kind of save ourselves

655
00:36:54,880 --> 00:36:59,079
and this business and everything, and OJ going if you

656
00:36:59,079 --> 00:37:01,039
don't get to the fuck point with this man and

657
00:37:01,119 --> 00:37:03,800
let him know that he's going to capture a predator

658
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:05,719
like he's not about all this shit that you are.

659
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,519
He doesn't care about the attention. He wants the shot.

660
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,960
He wants the impossible shot, impossible shot, he wants the nature,

661
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,199
he wants the thing he this is his life mission

662
00:37:17,199 --> 00:37:18,719
and you need to get to the point he's not

663
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:21,440
listening to you and without them having that as a

664
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,119
culminating moment of oh okay, so we both have points

665
00:37:25,119 --> 00:37:27,880
that we need to combine and we can be our

666
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:32,880
own thing together without having to replicate Dad. Then that

667
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,719
team forms and a new thing grows out of the loss.

668
00:37:37,280 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, so why don't we take when more break here

669
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:42,639
and we'll come back and speak a little bit more

670
00:37:42,679 --> 00:37:48,320
about I think OJ specifically and his arc in the story.

671
00:37:49,599 --> 00:37:51,880
One thing that was coming to mind to me listening

672
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,519
to you is also how and you were saying this before,

673
00:37:55,559 --> 00:37:57,360
so I'm seeing any of your points, Ben feel free

674
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,840
to jump in. Is that in the beginning of the movie,

675
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,360
OJ is so insecure in his own way because he's

676
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:08,079
trying to be the full version of his dad and

677
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,519
understandably maybe like feeling pretty insecure because of that, because

678
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:15,000
that's not his role that's not always comfortable with. And

679
00:38:15,039 --> 00:38:16,800
it is cool to see him over the course of

680
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:22,199
the movie recognize that that his skills are really important

681
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:24,559
and he does know what he's doing. I think that

682
00:38:24,599 --> 00:38:26,320
can also be so hard when you go through a

683
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,599
big life transition like this that throws you into a

684
00:38:28,639 --> 00:38:31,000
role you weren't prepared for, is that it can make

685
00:38:31,039 --> 00:38:36,000
you really doubt yourself absolutely and doubt that you ever

686
00:38:36,119 --> 00:38:38,320
knew what you were doing. Like I wouldn't be surprised

687
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,760
if he has some imposter syndrome in a bit of

688
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,920
a way about the situation, like I can't get my

689
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:45,920
shit together. Nobody in Hollywood seems to like me, I

690
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:48,320
have to keep selling the horses, like, I'm sure he's

691
00:38:48,320 --> 00:38:50,679
in a place where he is, like, am I even

692
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,119
good at this? So I think what is cool to

693
00:38:53,119 --> 00:38:55,800
see with him? And kind of the way that identity

694
00:38:56,039 --> 00:38:58,679
gets fucked with breathement in life transitions like this is

695
00:38:58,719 --> 00:39:01,519
he comes into his own own again or maybe even

696
00:39:01,599 --> 00:39:04,880
for the first time as an adult by himself without

697
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,840
his dad leading the way, is like, I do know

698
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,119
what I'm doing. Because this movie does a great job

699
00:39:10,159 --> 00:39:14,440
of showing the difference between OJ and how he interacts

700
00:39:14,639 --> 00:39:21,159
and figures out these aliens, this alien versus Jupe. Because

701
00:39:21,199 --> 00:39:26,519
what's funny is Jupe has had six months of planning

702
00:39:26,679 --> 00:39:29,079
for this live show he does, so he's been actively

703
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,639
trying to like figure out how to corral this alien

704
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:37,360
for six months and he fucks it up royally pretty immediately, yes,

705
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:41,079
whereas our main character OJ is only aware of it

706
00:39:41,199 --> 00:39:44,119
for I don't know, a week or two, Yeah, and

707
00:39:44,159 --> 00:39:47,000
he figures out exactly how to deal with it because

708
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:50,400
he knows animals. He is good at this.

709
00:39:51,239 --> 00:39:55,039
Speaker 2: And sometimes my way is exactly the right way. And

710
00:39:55,079 --> 00:39:58,760
once I figure it out, I'm sure and it's okay

711
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:00,559
to be sure, and I think that the part he

712
00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:02,840
was missing. Yeah, like it's okay for me to be

713
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:06,119
sure and where the daddy pants and say, this isn't

714
00:40:06,559 --> 00:40:13,199
a ship, it's an animal, and I know animals, and

715
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:15,280
it's not just an animal, like this idiot tried to

716
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,719
what do you like he made a mistake. He tried

717
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,480
to train a predator. And you don't train predators. You

718
00:40:21,559 --> 00:40:22,920
make agreements with them.

719
00:40:23,559 --> 00:40:26,039
Speaker 1: And you figure out, like he says, every animal has

720
00:40:26,239 --> 00:40:29,719
rules and you don't figure out those rules so you

721
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:31,159
can break. Let me figure them out so you can

722
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:33,679
obey them and survive.

723
00:40:34,159 --> 00:40:39,960
Speaker 2: Yes, right, which is a real strong moment of power

724
00:40:40,039 --> 00:40:43,079
for him of finding his place in the world and

725
00:40:43,119 --> 00:40:48,079
then thriving with that knowledge, which is post traumatic growth.

726
00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: It's absolutely what I thought about Ojay, and I really

727
00:40:51,039 --> 00:40:54,920
enjoyed his shift, And I think the actor does a

728
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,599
really good job of showing that with his confidence, like

729
00:40:58,639 --> 00:41:01,960
his body, his body changes. He does a really good

730
00:41:02,039 --> 00:41:05,559
job of showing a little bit different way that this

731
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,280
that we can now tell that this character has confidence.

732
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,599
This character now feels more comfortable, they feel like they

733
00:41:11,639 --> 00:41:14,719
know what they're doing. And I hope also that he

734
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:17,880
feels like he's always been able to do this, that

735
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,599
it's always been in him and I think even too.

736
00:41:20,719 --> 00:41:22,400
What I hope he can build from it as well

737
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:27,679
is confidence that he does know how to read other beings.

738
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,679
He can read like the eye thing that he does,

739
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,599
the eye signal he does with Emerald, that he when

740
00:41:35,599 --> 00:41:39,960
that geen jacket story happened, he understood that she was

741
00:41:40,039 --> 00:41:42,880
upset because when she looked down at the training ring,

742
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,159
he did that to her like I'm I see you.

743
00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:50,639
That fucked you over right now, and I get it,

744
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,119
and so I can see how all this Hollywood glitzy shit,

745
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,400
like I said, like that opening director scene has really

746
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:01,519
corroded his confidence of like do I know people? Am

747
00:42:01,559 --> 00:42:04,199
I able to like figure people out? I don't seem

748
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,639
to know what I'm doing and how to make people

749
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:08,079
like me.

750
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,199
Speaker 2: Right, He settles into what has made him strong his

751
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,480
whole life and then actualizes when he must, which is

752
00:42:18,519 --> 00:42:21,639
how we survive. When you can learn to trust that

753
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,360
I as I am, with all that I am, the

754
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,920
way that I see things enough and I don't need

755
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,840
permission from anybody to be myself. I just need to

756
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,280
do my thing and seize control of this moment in

757
00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,239
the way that I see it and that will be enough.

758
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:41,039
That is the way we survive. I don't need to

759
00:42:41,119 --> 00:42:44,119
see it the way you do. I don't need to

760
00:42:44,199 --> 00:42:48,679
be like you. I need to be like me and

761
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:53,320
go freely. And he does. Both of them do?

762
00:42:53,639 --> 00:42:56,079
Speaker 1: Both of them do? Yeah?

763
00:42:56,119 --> 00:42:59,719
Speaker 2: But it takes them releasing themselves from oh, I have

764
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:01,840
to be doing it this X y Z or what.

765
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,159
I have to remember Dad's speech.

766
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,039
Speaker 1: All right, So we will take another break here and

767
00:43:06,039 --> 00:43:10,599
be back with Jupe. So one thing we haven't really

768
00:43:10,639 --> 00:43:12,599
touched on yet is that a big corner storm of

769
00:43:12,639 --> 00:43:16,239
this movie is a chimpanzee. Is it chimpanzee?

770
00:43:16,320 --> 00:43:16,519
Speaker 2: Yes?

771
00:43:16,639 --> 00:43:23,039
Speaker 1: Yes, a chimpanzee in a classic nineties alf esque sitcom

772
00:43:24,199 --> 00:43:32,400
goes feral, goes animal on the sitcom set and seems

773
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:36,480
to kill most of the It's like a full house

774
00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:38,440
with a chimpanzee where he kills all the people in

775
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:39,000
full house.

776
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,800
Speaker 2: The dad looks exactly like the exactly.

777
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:48,079
Speaker 1: Like the dad from ALF. Yess he does. I used

778
00:43:48,079 --> 00:43:51,440
to be scared of alf as a kid. Surprise, surprise,

779
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:55,360
I used to have this the planet mail mec does

780
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:56,000
not approve.

781
00:43:56,119 --> 00:43:56,199
Speaker 2: No.

782
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,000
Speaker 1: I used to watch it as a kid when I

783
00:43:58,000 --> 00:43:59,800
was very young and I used to got into my

784
00:43:59,840 --> 00:44:01,840
he this idea that if I was laying in bed

785
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:03,800
at night, if I turned over, that Alf would be

786
00:44:04,039 --> 00:44:07,079
standing over me while I slept. And I don't know,

787
00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:09,760
maybe I had a bad dream once and I couldn't

788
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,760
get it out of my hand. And so now that's

789
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,400
what I think of when I think of that scrappy

790
00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:17,639
cat eating alien dude.

791
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 2: I had like Alf tapes that would like a little

792
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:27,199
Alf like book on tape stories, not the but Alf

793
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,519
was the ship for a while. Oh yeah, you're nightmares.

794
00:44:32,639 --> 00:44:35,760
Unfortunately took away some serious eighties kid joy from you.

795
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:37,119
I think you're telling me.

796
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: Listen, my overacting imagination stole a lot of joy from

797
00:44:40,039 --> 00:44:40,880
me as a kid.

798
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 2: We had a cooking with Alf doll at our house.

799
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:49,119
Speaker 1: Bron amazing. But yeah. So another central character of the store,

800
00:44:49,119 --> 00:44:51,840
which we've been referencing here is there is Jupe shored

801
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:59,639
for Jupiter, who owns a amusement park esque western Western

802
00:44:59,679 --> 00:45:02,400
disney landy kind of thing, very small.

803
00:45:02,119 --> 00:45:06,119
Speaker 2: Though, side show, road show, roadside attraction. There we go,

804
00:45:06,119 --> 00:45:08,719
That's what I'm looking for. Roadside attraction Western tone.

805
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:12,719
Speaker 1: Yes, that's close to O Jane Emerald's family farm and

806
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:18,000
he was the lead in that sitcom where he watched

807
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:23,960
all of his coworkers get mulled to death by a chimpanzee,

808
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:26,880
maybe even some of the audience members who are watching,

809
00:45:27,199 --> 00:45:30,320
and the only other survivor was his co star. That

810
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:32,480
was his older sister. I think on the show who

811
00:45:32,559 --> 00:45:36,039
gets her whole face chewed off? She's the one that

812
00:45:36,079 --> 00:45:38,599
comes to the show and she has the veil on

813
00:45:38,679 --> 00:45:41,519
and it blows off. Yeah, yep, I always thought that

814
00:45:41,519 --> 00:45:46,000
that was the mom Oh no, first crush. Okay, that's

815
00:45:46,039 --> 00:45:49,679
what makes more sense. That makes more, way more sense. Okay. Yeah,

816
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,280
So what's really interesting about his character from Jump is

817
00:45:53,280 --> 00:45:55,880
that he had this horrific I mean, that's the part

818
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:58,760
of the movie that's really horror esque, are the scenes

819
00:45:59,199 --> 00:46:04,519
of Gordy that imp attacking and dupe hiding. Yes, and

820
00:46:06,159 --> 00:46:10,840
he has an interesting presentation as an adult around this trauma.

821
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:13,440
I don't know if you want to describe it, Hannah, Like,

822
00:46:17,039 --> 00:46:24,679
it's really interesting how he has recreated this trauma in

823
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,079
his head to be something that is a spectacle. Yes,

824
00:46:28,199 --> 00:46:30,719
that's a great way to put it, which is what

825
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:33,239
he wants to create, which is what he's trying to

826
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:36,880
create by capturing the alien or whatever he thinks he's

827
00:46:36,880 --> 00:46:39,239
doing with the alien. But I think that he tries

828
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:41,239
it into a story. And then but then he collects

829
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:45,280
all the memorabilia from the show and from the set

830
00:46:45,599 --> 00:46:50,400
and all of the horrible stuff that happened, and he

831
00:46:50,519 --> 00:46:55,599
has this hidden Yeah, it's like Gripley believe it or not. Yeah,

832
00:46:56,159 --> 00:46:59,480
this hidden space that he that he keeps that it

833
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,599
makes me wonder what he does what he does in there,

834
00:47:01,639 --> 00:47:04,480
Like does he go in there and dissociate, like what

835
00:47:04,719 --> 00:47:10,239
happens when he is It's such a different way for

836
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:16,000
someone to express the trauma that they've been through. Yes,

837
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:21,320
that he keeps this pristine showroom of not just like

838
00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:24,719
oh cute, like you're saying, like cute memorabilia from the show,

839
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:28,920
but he is memorabilia from the day, Like he has

840
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:34,119
the bloody shoe and some other shit too. And it

841
00:47:34,119 --> 00:47:39,199
also seems like he obsessively watches like the snl skit

842
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,039
that was paired in the event, like he is a

843
00:47:42,079 --> 00:47:47,679
walking Wikipedia page about that event and like the social

844
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:53,719
cultural impact of it, and he talks about it as

845
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:58,119
if it is a cute story like a Ripley's believer

846
00:47:58,159 --> 00:48:00,400
it or not esque, not cute maybe, but he tells

847
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:03,800
it very disconnected, like he's like it almost feels like

848
00:48:03,840 --> 00:48:07,000
he wasn't there, that he's just someone who's special interest

849
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,920
is Gordy's TV show and collecting memorability the way that

850
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,320
people can be weird about serial killers and stuff or

851
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:19,880
like weird horrible tragedies. But he is the center person

852
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,519
and he talks about it as if he wasn't there,

853
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,880
but he was there, and as if he's fine. Yeah,

854
00:48:27,119 --> 00:48:30,880
and he's renting out that space to left weird couples

855
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:31,400
and stuff.

856
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's definitely not okay, he's not okay. I mean

857
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,199
we see that he dissociates. He does a little headshake thing,

858
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:41,079
and my clients get really mad at me when I

859
00:48:41,079 --> 00:48:43,039
point out that they do a head little head shake

860
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,119
you can see sometimes when people are trying to shake

861
00:48:45,159 --> 00:48:47,559
something just out of their head. I'm mad right now.

862
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:49,679
If any of you can see me, you know, love

863
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:51,480
the co host can see me doing it, You guys can't,

864
00:48:51,519 --> 00:48:54,159
But people do it. There's this tiny little headshake and

865
00:48:54,199 --> 00:48:56,400
he does that, and Jordan Peele is kind enough to

866
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:58,079
show us what he was seeing in his head that

867
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:01,760
he's trying to shake out of it, but people will

868
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:06,599
almost adopt a secondary persona of someone who observed it

869
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:11,880
neutrally instead of being horrified and stuck.

870
00:49:13,159 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because even though he's keeping all this shit around him,

871
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,159
the ironic part, in my opinion, is that he is

872
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,960
keeping it at arm's length. Mentally, he's trying to He

873
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:28,679
was trying to. Really, he's really trying to. He's really, uh,

874
00:49:28,679 --> 00:49:32,519
white knuckling the fuck out of out of this. Like

875
00:49:32,599 --> 00:49:35,480
he like he's dissociative.

876
00:49:35,920 --> 00:49:36,320
Speaker 2: He is.

877
00:49:37,079 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 1: He looks like he's not there. It's a time it's

878
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,880
trouble we see him. Yeah, most of the times that

879
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:46,519
the camera is focused on him, he does not seem

880
00:49:46,559 --> 00:49:49,360
to be present. No, And I think that makes a

881
00:49:49,360 --> 00:49:52,320
lot of sense. I think maybe he's been stuck since

882
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:53,440
that trauma happened.

883
00:49:53,719 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 2: Of course, I think he's been stuck because it hit

884
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,800
him in multiple ways. Because he was a child star

885
00:49:57,840 --> 00:49:59,840
on a successful show before that one, and this was

886
00:50:00,199 --> 00:50:04,119
to be his next project, yes, and that got taken away,

887
00:50:04,679 --> 00:50:07,199
and we know child stars struggle with that, which makes sense.

888
00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:11,159
You get all this attention, fame, money, et cetera, and

889
00:50:11,199 --> 00:50:12,719
you're on top of the world and all of a sudden,

890
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:15,800
it's just gone, and that doesn't go well for people,

891
00:50:16,519 --> 00:50:21,039
which is understandable. But he went through all of that,

892
00:50:21,159 --> 00:50:26,159
and he went through multiple losses at once, Yes lost

893
00:50:26,159 --> 00:50:32,159
the show, lost his TV parents, his first crush and

894
00:50:32,360 --> 00:50:38,280
work sister got maimed, his animal co worker got shot

895
00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:45,800
in front of him. It did not represent good things

896
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,519
happening to him, and then he stayed stuck in it.

897
00:50:48,599 --> 00:50:53,840
Because our brain craves the ability to make sense of

898
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:56,280
things that have happened to us. It wants to gain

899
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:00,239
mastery over it so that we can assign that to

900
00:51:00,320 --> 00:51:04,599
the past and let it go. All of the feelings, imagery, etc.

901
00:51:05,000 --> 00:51:09,599
That get stuck inside of our body and mind when

902
00:51:09,599 --> 00:51:15,119
a traumatic event happens want to move into storage. They

903
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:18,639
want to go. Our brain wants to make them adaptive

904
00:51:18,679 --> 00:51:22,039
information that we can say, Okay, if that happened again,

905
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,639
I would be able to deal with it because I

906
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,000
know what to do. That wouldn't happen to me again

907
00:51:29,079 --> 00:51:32,119
because I do X, Y and Z, and that becomes

908
00:51:32,159 --> 00:51:37,000
adaptive information. It's not adaptive information for him because he

909
00:51:37,119 --> 00:51:41,440
hasn't processed it. It stays stuck in state dependent form

910
00:51:41,599 --> 00:51:44,719
in his body and in his mind. And that's why

911
00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:47,440
the part of him that seeks the control of that

912
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:50,880
is collecting all of that stuff and keeping it around

913
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:54,840
him because he is not convinced in the truest or

914
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:56,719
the part of him that knows the truth. We all

915
00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,599
have one. It's one most of us don't like very much,

916
00:51:59,599 --> 00:52:01,800
but there's one part of our brain that knows the

917
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,639
truth always and will always tell it to us, whether

918
00:52:04,639 --> 00:52:07,119
we want it to or not. And that part of

919
00:52:07,199 --> 00:52:13,360
him tells him you are not safe from this because

920
00:52:13,400 --> 00:52:16,440
he has not convinced it so by processing, so he

921
00:52:16,519 --> 00:52:17,320
keeps it all around.

922
00:52:18,159 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's over identifying with his showman part, the

923
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:30,320
part of him that is a entertainer, the ringleader of

924
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:35,280
his current situation. He lets that part take the show

925
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,000
when he can't handle it.

926
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 2: Because that was the part that was most suddenly yanked

927
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,599
from him.

928
00:52:42,639 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: And also that's the part that lets him lean into

929
00:52:47,159 --> 00:52:51,440
that expertise as well without having to actually feel the feelings,

930
00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,559
which is why it's off putting if you've any kind

931
00:52:53,559 --> 00:52:57,199
of emotional intelligence. When he goes into that mode and

932
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:59,480
he's talking about it, and especially when he's talking about

933
00:52:59,519 --> 00:53:03,039
that snl' yes, he is weird like it gives you

934
00:53:03,079 --> 00:53:07,480
the weirds, and that's because you can sense that he's

935
00:53:07,519 --> 00:53:11,159
not being authentic, that he is showing you a version

936
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:16,480
of himself that's not rooted in quote unquote like normal

937
00:53:16,559 --> 00:53:21,159
human reactions. There's like a fake smile on his face

938
00:53:21,639 --> 00:53:24,159
that's eerie almost.

939
00:53:23,840 --> 00:53:26,280
Speaker 2: Because he's telling a fake He's telling a fake story.

940
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,760
So he looks glass and gone.

941
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Emerald asks him what happened? What really happened,

942
00:53:34,440 --> 00:53:36,480
and instead he talks about the snl skit.

943
00:53:36,519 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 2: Which is safe because that's not what happened, and he

944
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,039
can tell that story comfortably.

945
00:53:41,079 --> 00:53:42,440
Speaker 1: He's like, you know, got to watch that snl skit.

946
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, And how many people would do that when people

947
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,800
ask what happened on the worst day of your life?

948
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,199
Speaker 1: Yeah? If I had a client do that, I would clock.

949
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:55,400
I'd be I'll let him have it this time, but

950
00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,320
we're going to talk about that later, because that definitely

951
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,000
reminds me of when you start working with someone. It's

952
00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:03,239
like the first or second session and you can tell

953
00:54:03,239 --> 00:54:06,039
that they're used to telling the story of their trauma, yes,

954
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,199
but they're not actually feeling it yes, And the red

955
00:54:09,199 --> 00:54:11,519
flags are popping up in my brain at least like

956
00:54:11,559 --> 00:54:13,199
all over the place. I'm like, Okay, I'm gonna let

957
00:54:13,199 --> 00:54:14,440
the way don't. They don't know me yet, so I'm

958
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:16,880
gonna let them have it. I'm not gonna poke at it.

959
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:22,360
But hmm, I'm clocking all of this for later, because

960
00:54:22,360 --> 00:54:26,840
it's not he's not pulling it off in a way

961
00:54:27,079 --> 00:54:28,519
that if you, like I said, if you have any

962
00:54:28,519 --> 00:54:32,639
sort of emotional intelligence, it's obvious. And I think what

963
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:35,880
is interesting is that there is that one scene before

964
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:41,199
they start the first official show that involves the alien

965
00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,920
where he is fully the most associating, where he's like staring,

966
00:54:46,039 --> 00:54:49,719
like staring off into the distance, and his wife comes

967
00:54:49,800 --> 00:54:52,679
up and does something. She does come up to him,

968
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:55,119
and she does start rubbing his finger in a way

969
00:54:55,159 --> 00:54:57,000
that seems very grounded, rubbing his hand in a way

970
00:54:57,039 --> 00:55:00,679
that's very grounding. It's like she can tell that he's associating,

971
00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:03,519
and she's doing something with him to get him back

972
00:55:03,559 --> 00:55:08,320
in the moment, because unfortunately she's also asking him to

973
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:11,920
be a showman and to get out of your feelings

974
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,639
and we need you to get on to get an on,

975
00:55:15,199 --> 00:55:16,000
which does suck.

976
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:19,159
Speaker 2: I think she's supporting him in what she thinks he

977
00:55:19,239 --> 00:55:22,679
wants it seemed like he kind of holds some power

978
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:26,000
in that relationship, and yeah, that she's kind of along.

979
00:55:27,079 --> 00:55:29,400
There was some energy between the two of them that

980
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:32,280
felt like there was a power dynamic. So I think

981
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:36,400
I think she's just doing what she thinks she's supposed

982
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:38,920
to and what he's probably coached her to do.

983
00:55:39,719 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 1: Oh like, yeah, when you see me zoning out, come

984
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,280
over here, or it seems like a practiced behavior, it does.

985
00:55:47,480 --> 00:55:49,519
Speaker 2: For it to be the hand that he fist bumped

986
00:55:49,559 --> 00:55:51,679
with the chimp that kept him alive, for her to

987
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:52,719
be grounding him to.

988
00:55:52,719 --> 00:55:56,559
Speaker 1: That interesting Yeah, Yeah, those two.

989
00:55:56,400 --> 00:56:01,280
Speaker 2: Scenes were tied together, that creepy, you know, fist pump

990
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,880
thing with the chimp that just griped somebody's throat out

991
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,840
and then because he didn't look at in the eye

992
00:56:10,519 --> 00:56:13,559
mm hmm and maintained his safety with it, when the chimp,

993
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:16,519
you know, practiced the behavior that he fist pumped with it.

994
00:56:16,519 --> 00:56:19,679
It's that hand that the next scene is her rubbing,

995
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,119
So that's not an accident.

996
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:26,800
Speaker 1: Let me ask the lay person question, because I would

997
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,000
think this watching this movie. Why would someone who's also

998
00:56:30,079 --> 00:56:33,760
gone through this horrific event and is very aware of

999
00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:35,639
the event still because he's made a lot of his

1000
00:56:35,679 --> 00:56:39,920
life and personality about it, put himself in another situation

1001
00:56:40,639 --> 00:56:47,440
where he is inviting a potentially uncontrollable animal into his world.

1002
00:56:47,440 --> 00:56:50,239
Because I think what we would typically think if I

1003
00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:53,199
was watching this as someone who doesn't do therapy, that

1004
00:56:53,280 --> 00:56:55,519
he would have like a trauma reaction where you'd be

1005
00:56:55,599 --> 00:56:57,440
like no ooh, you know, he'd get scared, and he'd

1006
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,440
like would want nothing to do with it. So what

1007
00:56:59,559 --> 00:57:03,519
do we have to say about someone who is repeating

1008
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:04,960
a situation?

1009
00:57:06,039 --> 00:57:10,400
Speaker 2: I got it because he was eight, yeah when he

1010
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:14,199
went through this trauma or ten or whatever he was.

1011
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:15,360
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, we don't know.

1012
00:57:15,559 --> 00:57:20,760
Speaker 2: And as we know from dealing with egocentric ten year

1013
00:57:20,760 --> 00:57:25,920
olds in past episodes, that he is stuck in the

1014
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:30,920
egocentrism of thinking I can control it this time, If

1015
00:57:31,159 --> 00:57:33,719
I take all of this on this time, I'll be

1016
00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,239
able to save it. I'll be able to rewrite this,

1017
00:57:37,679 --> 00:57:41,400
I'll be able to make it better, and this time

1018
00:57:41,679 --> 00:57:44,840
I'll win. And the adult part of his mind that

1019
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:50,079
misses the fundamental truth of this episode or this movie

1020
00:57:50,199 --> 00:57:57,039
that OJ knows is you can't train a predator. People

1021
00:57:57,119 --> 00:57:59,880
make that mistake. I mean, what antlers say.

1022
00:57:59,719 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: Like Roy, Yeah, yeah, think.

1023
00:58:03,639 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 2: You thought you could do that. And we've covered this

1024
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,119
in an episode on the Mask of the Phantasm pretty thoroughly,

1025
00:58:10,639 --> 00:58:12,239
so I don't feel the need to go into it.

1026
00:58:12,280 --> 00:58:15,760
But our uh, our boy Bruce makes the same mistake

1027
00:58:16,239 --> 00:58:21,000
over and over and over that Juke does. Of I

1028
00:58:21,039 --> 00:58:23,679
can fix it if I am just good enough, if

1029
00:58:23,760 --> 00:58:25,760
I am on top of it enough, if I do

1030
00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:30,280
enough things, if I spend six months prepping this show

1031
00:58:30,639 --> 00:58:33,679
and learning their behaviors, I can control the factors that

1032
00:58:33,719 --> 00:58:37,519
I lost control of. But that is a ten year

1033
00:58:37,519 --> 00:58:39,559
old part that doesn't realize the truth of the world

1034
00:58:39,639 --> 00:58:43,840
is a predator will eat you at the first opportunity

1035
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:45,840
it's convenient for it. That's it.

1036
00:58:47,159 --> 00:58:50,639
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, he's suicidal, oh Dan, he doesn't

1037
00:58:50,639 --> 00:58:52,800
care about himself, oh Dan?

1038
00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,119
Speaker 2: And who else did you say that about?

1039
00:58:58,400 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1040
00:58:59,480 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: For what reason?

1041
00:59:01,599 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: The same ones, same ones. But I feel like what

1042
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,840
you're saying, Ben makes a lot of sense, and it

1043
00:59:07,880 --> 00:59:11,119
definitely and that definitely feels right. And my first thought

1044
00:59:11,360 --> 00:59:15,679
was he's suicidal. I think he's doing that thing people

1045
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:18,679
like to do where they want. This is kind of

1046
00:59:18,719 --> 00:59:21,360
what you're saying, Ben, But they where they want to

1047
00:59:21,400 --> 00:59:26,920
pretend that the world is safer than it's been shown

1048
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,159
to them to be. And you know, people will get

1049
00:59:29,159 --> 00:59:33,239
into like relationships that replicate abuse they experience as kids,

1050
00:59:33,239 --> 00:59:38,239
stuff like that. People want to prove sometimes to themselves

1051
00:59:39,559 --> 00:59:44,400
that it can be different. Yeah, and that was just

1052
00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:49,599
a fluke, right, Yeah, And unfortunately there's so much hubris

1053
00:59:49,599 --> 00:59:54,880
in that as well. That is a scary thing to realize, right,

1054
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:57,960
Like when I practice radical acceptance with clients, is like

1055
00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:00,119
you have to radically accept that there's some things are

1056
01:00:00,159 --> 01:00:02,639
never going to be within your control and that is

1057
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:07,719
really scary. It's really scary to recognize that there are

1058
01:00:07,719 --> 01:00:11,880
certain elements in the world that can hurt you no

1059
01:00:11,920 --> 01:00:14,960
matter what you do, and that you can't conquer everything

1060
01:00:16,039 --> 01:00:19,159
and you can't control everything. And so yeah, he is,

1061
01:00:19,199 --> 01:00:23,000
I think, trying to create that corrective experience, Yeah, in

1062
01:00:23,000 --> 01:00:25,440
a not so great way, healthy way of like you're

1063
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:29,119
saying that this time it'll be different, yep. And it

1064
01:00:29,199 --> 01:00:31,880
really makes him blind, which I think is also a

1065
01:00:31,920 --> 01:00:34,599
side effect of not really processing. If you don't really

1066
01:00:34,639 --> 01:00:41,239
process something, you don't learn from it, and you can

1067
01:00:41,599 --> 01:00:43,559
repeat the same mistakes. Like when we talked about what

1068
01:00:43,559 --> 01:00:47,519
eternal sunshine of the spotless mine, and how it doesn't

1069
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:51,840
actually do you any good to not remember the things

1070
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,639
that have happened to you that were hard because you

1071
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,280
learn from them, and that you'll just keep repeating it.

1072
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:58,440
So he's, I think, an example of someone who is

1073
01:00:58,519 --> 01:01:02,840
refusing to process it for whatever reason, and he is

1074
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:07,400
doomed to make the same mistake, and there is probably

1075
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,079
a story in his head, like if I saw him

1076
01:01:09,119 --> 01:01:12,760
for therapy, where I'd be like, why does it so

1077
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:18,519
important for you to corral this thing even though it

1078
01:01:18,559 --> 01:01:21,880
could kill, it could harm so much if it's swallowing

1079
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:25,840
horses whole babe, Yeah, your kids are smaller than horses.

1080
01:01:26,639 --> 01:01:29,760
Everyone you love is smaller than a horse, which makes

1081
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:34,039
them easier to eat. Yeah, and so putting all these

1082
01:01:34,039 --> 01:01:38,840
people at risk it is nonsensical actually what he's doing,

1083
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,440
which maybe lends more to your theory, Hannah, what he's

1084
01:01:41,559 --> 01:01:48,880
doing is so dangerous and reckless, and like I just

1085
01:01:48,960 --> 01:01:53,360
kept thinking the Huberus when we were watching it. But

1086
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:56,760
I do see a lot of people, I think, especially

1087
01:01:56,800 --> 01:02:01,360
in like I don't know, capitalistic culture, our Western culture,

1088
01:02:01,400 --> 01:02:04,039
who really feel like they can conquer anything if they

1089
01:02:04,119 --> 01:02:09,320
just try hard enough, and they aren't able to surrender,

1090
01:02:09,480 --> 01:02:13,000
for example, girl, and they aren't able to surrender to

1091
01:02:13,039 --> 01:02:15,119
the fact that there are bigger You need to humble

1092
01:02:15,159 --> 01:02:21,039
yourself before the bigness that is nature, animals, alien life.

1093
01:02:21,119 --> 01:02:23,480
And that's what's the difference between OJ as well. Right,

1094
01:02:23,519 --> 01:02:26,599
A part of being an animal wrangler successful with animals

1095
01:02:27,000 --> 01:02:30,239
is you have to respect them. You have to respect

1096
01:02:30,239 --> 01:02:32,719
things bigger than you and powerful. You have to respect

1097
01:02:32,760 --> 01:02:38,559
the rules and always, and JUP does not respect the rules.

1098
01:02:38,599 --> 01:02:40,320
So we will take another break here and be back

1099
01:02:40,360 --> 01:02:45,559
with treatment. So who are we thinking about for treatment?

1100
01:02:46,400 --> 01:02:49,119
Speaker 2: I am thinking about OJ, So I guess I'll go

1101
01:02:49,159 --> 01:02:55,840
first here. Okay, surprise surprise you guys, huge surprise and

1102
01:02:55,920 --> 01:03:00,199
a Bingo square. Probably is OJ is a prime can it?

1103
01:03:00,239 --> 01:03:00,360
Speaker 1: For?

1104
01:03:00,519 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 2: MDR?

1105
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:03,199
Speaker 1: I don't think you've actually talked about AMDR for a

1106
01:03:03,199 --> 01:03:05,159
while in a while, so agreed.

1107
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:06,639
Speaker 2: I haven't, And I've been doing a lot of it

1108
01:03:06,920 --> 01:03:10,239
lately because I've been getting some really strong cases for it,

1109
01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,440
appropriate that are very appropriate for it, and it's been

1110
01:03:12,519 --> 01:03:15,760
very successful. So it's a kind of on my mind.

1111
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:22,000
But MDR. Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing Therapy is a

1112
01:03:22,159 --> 01:03:27,760
very powerful therapy that works really well for a lot

1113
01:03:27,760 --> 01:03:32,000
of things, but in cases like OJ's where he was

1114
01:03:32,199 --> 01:03:36,280
present for a very bizarre event, and several of them

1115
01:03:37,880 --> 01:03:43,119
where he saw horrible things that he couldn't have possibly

1116
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,559
digested all of that that he saw. But we'll start

1117
01:03:47,559 --> 01:03:48,199
with his dad.

1118
01:03:48,800 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the scene in the car, the scene where

1119
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:54,159
he's waiting with his dead body, exactly, the things they

1120
01:03:54,199 --> 01:03:55,079
give him the nickel.

1121
01:03:55,360 --> 01:04:01,360
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that things like that would with him. The

1122
01:04:01,440 --> 01:04:05,599
image of seeing his dad with his eye out would

1123
01:04:05,639 --> 01:04:08,679
stick with him. It would be frozen flash fro was

1124
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:10,400
in his mind. And we already know he doesn't like

1125
01:04:10,480 --> 01:04:17,280
to talk much. EMDR doesn't necessarily require clients to do

1126
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:20,119
a lot of talking. It's a lot of letting the

1127
01:04:20,159 --> 01:04:23,760
brain do what it's supposed to do to process and

1128
01:04:23,840 --> 01:04:28,440
a lot of the eye movement thing. How the therapy

1129
01:04:28,519 --> 01:04:30,920
works is it works on two key principles. One is

1130
01:04:30,960 --> 01:04:33,760
that we have an adaptive processing network in our brain that,

1131
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:38,079
like I was mentioning earlier, naturally wants to process what

1132
01:04:38,199 --> 01:04:40,800
we go through to make it usable information. It takes

1133
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:44,519
it out of being emotional information we need to react

1134
01:04:44,599 --> 01:04:48,800
to to survive and allows it to become usable information

1135
01:04:48,880 --> 01:04:51,840
that we can categorize and store like a library so

1136
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,599
that we can pull from it as needed spontaneously to

1137
01:04:54,639 --> 01:05:00,000
survive anything else. Similar and with the therapy you trigger

1138
01:05:00,079 --> 01:05:03,360
or eye movements to enact what happens during rem sleep

1139
01:05:03,679 --> 01:05:07,119
and remsleep is when our brain naturally processes information anyway.

1140
01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:12,159
In dreams, we work on moving information from the emotional

1141
01:05:12,199 --> 01:05:15,519
side of our brain on the right to logical information

1142
01:05:15,679 --> 01:05:19,000
on the left. And you want to engage both sides,

1143
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:21,400
both hemispheres of the brain to do that, which is

1144
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:25,159
why our eyes flip back and forth, because we're allowing

1145
01:05:25,239 --> 01:05:29,519
information to be synthesized between the sides of our brain,

1146
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,679
and that's how it goes from emotionally reactive to okay,

1147
01:05:34,039 --> 01:05:39,239
resourced and useful information. The other thing that having eye

1148
01:05:39,239 --> 01:05:42,440
movements or any other kind of alternating stimulus on either

1149
01:05:42,480 --> 01:05:45,079
side of the body, whether it's touch, sound, or visual

1150
01:05:45,639 --> 01:05:50,800
is it helps disrupt dissociation, so it keeps a person

1151
01:05:50,920 --> 01:05:54,320
concretely aware that they are in the present and not

1152
01:05:54,599 --> 01:06:00,280
in the traumatic incident. Again, and oftentimes when people are

1153
01:06:00,559 --> 01:06:06,239
overwhelmed with terrifying moments of their life, they dissociate back

1154
01:06:06,239 --> 01:06:10,519
into that moment or into another one that is just

1155
01:06:10,719 --> 01:06:13,960
like it, and they're powerless again, and they seek control

1156
01:06:14,000 --> 01:06:19,920
over past, present, and future, but only a sliver of

1157
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:22,639
the present because they know they're okay in the present,

1158
01:06:22,719 --> 01:06:24,239
so they don't need to worry about it, so they

1159
01:06:24,280 --> 01:06:26,599
worry instead about the past where they got hurt and

1160
01:06:26,639 --> 01:06:29,400
the future where they get hurt again. What the therapy

1161
01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,840
does is it grounds them concretely to you are okay

1162
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,599
right now, and then because the body is reminded of that,

1163
01:06:36,719 --> 01:06:40,199
it relaxes, and you think about the two things that

1164
01:06:40,239 --> 01:06:44,400
heal trauma is dispairing a distressing stimuli with a relaxed

1165
01:06:44,480 --> 01:06:47,519
muscle body MDR is one way to get there. There

1166
01:06:47,519 --> 01:06:52,679
are many but relaxed muscle body distressing stimuli. Pairing those

1167
01:06:52,920 --> 01:06:57,000
equals a calming response that allows that healing to take place.

1168
01:06:57,480 --> 01:07:02,000
So oja with all of these whole horrible, overwhelming stimuli,

1169
01:07:02,079 --> 01:07:05,280
Like we hear the sound as an audience, but imagine

1170
01:07:05,280 --> 01:07:09,800
how loud all those sounds would have been, or what

1171
01:07:09,880 --> 01:07:12,199
he's likely to be hearing is the sound that he

1172
01:07:12,239 --> 01:07:15,119
thought were bullets, and he's likely to have that initial

1173
01:07:15,119 --> 01:07:18,280
fear that you're just seeing dust kickup as those metal

1174
01:07:18,639 --> 01:07:22,119
fragments that we learned later is basically it's alien shitting

1175
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:26,960
just fucked up. Agreed, But it was random metal fragments

1176
01:07:27,000 --> 01:07:28,679
that got stuck in the horse, stuck in the house

1177
01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:31,199
that all of a sudden he sees his dad struck

1178
01:07:31,239 --> 01:07:33,960
by one. So he's gonna hear that, he's gonna see it,

1179
01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:38,119
he's going to have all that sensory input connected, and

1180
01:07:38,159 --> 01:07:41,039
then he's going to have to recover from it. And

1181
01:07:41,079 --> 01:07:44,239
I think EMDR would be a great therapy for someone

1182
01:07:44,320 --> 01:07:46,760
like him that doesn't especially want to talk, but can

1183
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,639
probably sit in front of a light bar and have

1184
01:07:48,760 --> 01:07:50,480
his eyes go back and forth and have me say

1185
01:07:50,519 --> 01:07:53,719
what are you noticing now? And he can repeat that

1186
01:07:54,159 --> 01:07:55,880
and say as much or as little as he wants,

1187
01:07:57,079 --> 01:07:59,559
and then okay, go with that, and he doesn't have

1188
01:07:59,559 --> 01:08:04,239
to explain a damn thing to me. He doesn't have

1189
01:08:04,320 --> 01:08:07,199
to connect to anything other than his own experience and

1190
01:08:07,280 --> 01:08:09,119
let his brain do that work, which would probably work

1191
01:08:09,119 --> 01:08:12,199
for him as behaviors because he would get it quick

1192
01:08:12,559 --> 01:08:16,119
once he felt it. So I think, for all of

1193
01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:20,119
those reasons for oj AMDR would be my therapy of choice,

1194
01:08:20,159 --> 01:08:22,600
and I think he'd respond tremendously well to it.

1195
01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:25,840
Speaker 1: I agree, yeah, because he's not a talker, and if

1196
01:08:25,840 --> 01:08:27,079
you just had him sit down in front of a

1197
01:08:27,119 --> 01:08:32,640
therapist to do like talk therapy, yeah, hell no. No.

1198
01:08:33,920 --> 01:08:37,479
So I'm going to take the talker, which is Emerald.

1199
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:40,520
And ironically, I think what would really help Emerald, at

1200
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:42,560
least the Emerald we see at the beginning of the movie,

1201
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:47,880
is the interpersonal effectiveness techniques that you learn in dialectical

1202
01:08:47,880 --> 01:08:53,119
behavioral therapy, because she does have a hard time connecting

1203
01:08:53,319 --> 01:08:57,880
her desires with how to appropriately convey them. So a

1204
01:08:57,920 --> 01:09:01,119
lot of DBT is kind of centered on two principles,

1205
01:09:01,159 --> 01:09:06,199
which is distress tolerance and interpersonal effectiveness. And so even

1206
01:09:06,199 --> 01:09:08,279
with the distressed tolerance part, I think that would also

1207
01:09:08,319 --> 01:09:10,600
help as well, because as we've talked about, she seems

1208
01:09:10,640 --> 01:09:13,800
to be relying on maybe a series of we would

1209
01:09:13,880 --> 01:09:17,479
call maladaptive coping skills. Maybe we'd also call them self

1210
01:09:17,520 --> 01:09:20,239
destructive coping skills, is what they're called. A lot in DBT,

1211
01:09:20,800 --> 01:09:26,720
so the drinking, the casual sex, the vaping, the who

1212
01:09:26,760 --> 01:09:28,760
knows what she's doing, like running around she's doing.

1213
01:09:29,119 --> 01:09:31,359
Speaker 2: She definitely gave like the gonna go see a man

1214
01:09:31,399 --> 01:09:32,640
about a dog kind of line.

1215
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:38,399
Speaker 1: Stealing from Jupiter's farm ranch place, stealing the horse. Yeah,

1216
01:09:38,439 --> 01:09:41,279
Like she does a lot of impulsive stuff, right, And

1217
01:09:41,439 --> 01:09:45,640
so what DBT does which I think would help her,

1218
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,000
is it slows you down. You learn all about mindfulness,

1219
01:09:48,039 --> 01:09:49,680
so it has to slow you down, which would be

1220
01:09:49,680 --> 01:09:51,279
good for her because she does seem to be very

1221
01:09:51,319 --> 01:09:54,479
go go go. She relies a lot on distraction, So

1222
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:56,880
it would require her to learn how to sit in

1223
01:09:56,880 --> 01:10:01,319
the moment, which is good reflect how she's actually feeling,

1224
01:10:01,680 --> 01:10:04,439
which I don't think she does enough of, yeah, which

1225
01:10:04,479 --> 01:10:06,079
is And so I might even have her keep like

1226
01:10:06,079 --> 01:10:08,520
a thought record kind of thing of like when you're

1227
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:12,079
wanting to do this destructive behavior, and we'll define what

1228
01:10:12,119 --> 01:10:14,640
those are. I want you to take a beat and

1229
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:16,840
think to yourself, why do I want to do that?

1230
01:10:17,359 --> 01:10:19,920
What emotion's going on right now? Was there a trigger?

1231
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:23,840
Is there another skill I could try and practice instead?

1232
01:10:24,760 --> 01:10:27,439
And then sometimes you can also do the after evacs,

1233
01:10:27,439 --> 01:10:30,079
which is like I did the thing already, how do

1234
01:10:30,159 --> 01:10:33,600
I feel now? What maybe could have done differently? So

1235
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:39,239
just really practicing building awareness into why you have these

1236
01:10:39,279 --> 01:10:43,119
habits and what you're trying to actually do to feel better,

1237
01:10:44,199 --> 01:10:46,680
and can we try something else? And then like I said,

1238
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:50,640
she probably would need. Sometimes literal templates is also what's

1239
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:53,800
good for DBT, like literal templates about like how do

1240
01:10:53,880 --> 01:10:57,319
I tell someone that I'm having a feeling in a

1241
01:10:57,359 --> 01:10:59,239
way that they will actually hear it? How do I

1242
01:10:59,279 --> 01:11:01,800
request something from someone? So she's someone i'd teach, like

1243
01:11:01,840 --> 01:11:04,000
dear man to which you can look up if you're

1244
01:11:04,039 --> 01:11:06,880
interested in that, because it's a long acronym. But I

1245
01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:10,359
think she would benefit a lot from having these skills

1246
01:11:10,399 --> 01:11:13,880
in her back pocket to pull from, because even though

1247
01:11:13,920 --> 01:11:16,359
she is very extroverted and seems very charming and maybe

1248
01:11:16,399 --> 01:11:19,079
he can get things she wants in the moment, she

1249
01:11:19,399 --> 01:11:26,439
actually can't communicate her literal emotional needs. And I think

1250
01:11:26,439 --> 01:11:28,399
that's what she really needs help with, is like slowing

1251
01:11:28,439 --> 01:11:31,560
down learning replacement skills, learning that what she's doing is

1252
01:11:31,600 --> 01:11:35,560
actually coping skills maybe aren't serving her, and then being

1253
01:11:35,720 --> 01:11:39,479
like really talking through like your actual support system, your

1254
01:11:39,479 --> 01:11:42,960
brother when you get pissed off because he won't do

1255
01:11:43,079 --> 01:11:45,680
this with you, Why does that feel so important? Are

1256
01:11:45,720 --> 01:11:49,000
you actually helping him understand what you need? And that's

1257
01:11:49,000 --> 01:11:50,840
where things like the dear man and stuff would come in,

1258
01:11:50,880 --> 01:11:53,199
of like how do you actually articulate what's going on

1259
01:11:54,079 --> 01:11:57,000
instead of just saying why don't you drink with me?

1260
01:11:57,119 --> 01:11:58,600
Or such a stick in the mud, and then he

1261
01:11:58,640 --> 01:12:01,000
can just be like, Oh, you're being us so annoying again.

1262
01:12:01,640 --> 01:12:03,840
I like tell clients if you say it like that,

1263
01:12:03,880 --> 01:12:06,079
they don't know what's going on in your head. They

1264
01:12:06,119 --> 01:12:08,279
don't know why you want them to do this thing

1265
01:12:08,279 --> 01:12:10,680
with them, they don't know why it's important. They just

1266
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:15,399
think you're being annoying or random or whatever, and they're

1267
01:12:15,399 --> 01:12:18,720
not mind readers. You have to be clear with people

1268
01:12:19,199 --> 01:12:21,439
about the story in your head, about what's going on,

1269
01:12:21,680 --> 01:12:24,000
so that they can also correct it if they need to.

1270
01:12:24,359 --> 01:12:26,359
That's a lot of that stuff too. At DBT is

1271
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:30,159
slowing down whatever narrative you're riffing off of, which I

1272
01:12:30,159 --> 01:12:32,279
think she also has with like the gene jacket story.

1273
01:12:32,399 --> 01:12:35,039
There's a lot of strong narratives in her head about

1274
01:12:35,039 --> 01:12:38,560
who she is that she also needs to take more

1275
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:42,520
responsibility for and practice the difference between what actually is

1276
01:12:42,560 --> 01:12:45,439
happening and the story I'm hearing about it. So that's

1277
01:12:45,439 --> 01:12:47,039
what I would do with Emerald. I think she needs

1278
01:12:47,079 --> 01:12:50,039
a lot of like more that heavy handed skills based stuff,

1279
01:12:51,000 --> 01:12:53,279
and because she is maybe ADHD I think that can

1280
01:12:53,399 --> 01:12:56,760
help to have more concrete things, like a workbook that

1281
01:12:56,800 --> 01:12:59,359
you can focus on and reflect on instead of just

1282
01:12:59,399 --> 01:13:05,119
like trying to everything. So I decided that I would

1283
01:13:05,199 --> 01:13:09,960
work with OJ and Emerald and I would do family

1284
01:13:10,000 --> 01:13:13,039
therapy with them. Essentially sibling therapy is what I would

1285
01:13:13,079 --> 01:13:17,880
be doing with them. Now, something that I've heard is

1286
01:13:17,880 --> 01:13:21,119
that when people hear family therapy they think that if

1287
01:13:21,159 --> 01:13:23,520
every single person from the family can't come, that they

1288
01:13:23,520 --> 01:13:25,800
can't do it. And you can do family therapy in

1289
01:13:25,840 --> 01:13:29,199
all different kinds of ways. Family therapy can be done

1290
01:13:29,279 --> 01:13:31,880
where you are with siblings, you can work with a

1291
01:13:31,920 --> 01:13:33,960
whole family, you can work with a couple. There's so

1292
01:13:34,039 --> 01:13:37,640
many different combinations that you can do the same kinds

1293
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,000
of things with different groups of people and it can

1294
01:13:40,039 --> 01:13:43,000
still be considered family therapy. So one of the things

1295
01:13:43,000 --> 01:13:46,439
that I do when I work with siblings and also

1296
01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:49,239
sometimes with couples, and this is kind of the same

1297
01:13:49,520 --> 01:13:53,399
idea that we see in the film that we already discussed,

1298
01:13:53,479 --> 01:13:57,039
which is that they get a new task. And so

1299
01:13:57,399 --> 01:13:59,600
what I would do with them in my therapy room

1300
01:14:00,159 --> 01:14:03,079
is I would ask them to complete this exercise that

1301
01:14:03,159 --> 01:14:05,239
I do with that I do with siblings that I

1302
01:14:05,239 --> 01:14:08,600
do with couples. And so the way it goes is

1303
01:14:09,000 --> 01:14:12,880
essentially one person is the speaker and one person is drawing.

1304
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:15,479
The person who is speaking is describing a piece of

1305
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,279
paper and the shapes on it that are in front

1306
01:14:17,319 --> 01:14:19,439
of them to the person who has to draw, and

1307
01:14:19,479 --> 01:14:21,520
they can't see it, right, say, they can't see it.

1308
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,920
I usually set them back to back and so they

1309
01:14:23,960 --> 01:14:26,199
can't see what the person is drawing, and so they

1310
01:14:26,319 --> 01:14:29,760
just have to go based on how they see the picture.

1311
01:14:30,239 --> 01:14:33,439
The goal of this is it never looks the same.

1312
01:14:34,119 --> 01:14:37,159
It never looks like the picture. That's what the goal is.

1313
01:14:37,279 --> 01:14:39,399
It never looks like the picture. And and what the

1314
01:14:39,479 --> 01:14:42,800
real goal is is that then we talk about communication, Right,

1315
01:14:43,359 --> 01:14:46,920
why did when this person was the speaker, maybe the

1316
01:14:46,960 --> 01:14:50,520
picture was a little bit clearer versus the other way around.

1317
01:14:50,880 --> 01:14:53,159
It's usually something like a house, right, or like it's

1318
01:14:53,199 --> 01:14:58,920
like a house like yeah, like just like truthfully, just shapes. Yeah,

1319
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:02,600
most of the time, it's just and so and a

1320
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:04,279
part of the reason why I would want to do

1321
01:15:04,319 --> 01:15:06,199
that with them is, as we've talked about, they have

1322
01:15:06,239 --> 01:15:09,279
a hard time communicating, and so I would do this

1323
01:15:09,840 --> 01:15:13,880
activity with them to help them understand that you're looking

1324
01:15:13,920 --> 01:15:17,680
at this picture and you're trying to describe something, and

1325
01:15:17,720 --> 01:15:20,880
there's different ways that you can do that, and there's

1326
01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,520
different ways that can be effective, but that when we're

1327
01:15:23,640 --> 01:15:26,680
talking to somebody, we have to give them more information.

1328
01:15:27,199 --> 01:15:31,960
More information is always better than less information people. I know,

1329
01:15:32,000 --> 01:15:33,800
I have a lot of couples. When I work with

1330
01:15:33,880 --> 01:15:37,399
couples and they come in and one person is able

1331
01:15:37,479 --> 01:15:41,760
to really express themselves and one person isn't, and they're

1332
01:15:41,800 --> 01:15:46,640
not able to accommodate each other. For that experience, it's

1333
01:15:46,680 --> 01:15:49,720
a good exercise helping people realize how much they rely

1334
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,680
on assumptions. Yes, and assuming that people think the way

1335
01:15:53,720 --> 01:15:57,399
they think exactly. So when I say draw a straight

1336
01:15:57,439 --> 01:16:00,760
line up, yes, I assume you know also know what

1337
01:16:00,760 --> 01:16:01,279
that means.

1338
01:16:01,760 --> 01:16:02,039
Speaker 2: Yes.

1339
01:16:03,119 --> 01:16:09,359
Speaker 1: It really is a good exercise for realizing how specific

1340
01:16:10,159 --> 01:16:12,880
you actually have to be in communication exactly.

1341
01:16:12,720 --> 01:16:15,840
Speaker 2: And that even then it's going to require revision.

1342
01:16:16,760 --> 01:16:20,720
Speaker 1: Yes, So making assumptions really fucks everything up side note

1343
01:16:20,760 --> 01:16:27,840
everyone assumptions, especially in couple especially in couple relationships. But

1344
01:16:27,920 --> 01:16:30,920
I feel like with the sibling therapy, part of the

1345
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:32,520
reason why we want to do that is to help

1346
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:36,399
them both understand how vague they are being in their

1347
01:16:36,399 --> 01:16:39,439
descriptions and how they're expressing things to each other. And

1348
01:16:39,520 --> 01:16:41,840
so I think that would help them. A give them

1349
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:44,560
a new project they can try together, be it, lets

1350
01:16:44,680 --> 01:16:48,039
me see it in real time, which also is very

1351
01:16:48,079 --> 01:16:51,279
helpful to see how they work together. So I get

1352
01:16:51,279 --> 01:16:53,960
to see them do that in real time and see

1353
01:16:54,000 --> 01:16:56,520
then I can talk to them about communication. And is

1354
01:16:56,560 --> 01:16:59,359
a good way to have a physical example of we

1355
01:16:59,520 --> 01:17:03,479
just did some thing and you saw what the outcome was. Yeah,

1356
01:17:03,520 --> 01:17:05,479
And I think it would be helpful for them to

1357
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:08,960
improve their communication. Do you think it would also be helpful.

1358
01:17:09,039 --> 01:17:10,600
I'm curious what you think, because we were talking about

1359
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:14,479
how the project of this movie helps them. If they

1360
01:17:14,479 --> 01:17:16,279
didn't have the alien thing, do you think it would

1361
01:17:16,279 --> 01:17:19,920
be helpful if you gave them maybe a small project

1362
01:17:19,920 --> 01:17:21,439
on the farm that maybe had nothing to do with

1363
01:17:21,479 --> 01:17:24,640
like the business business to do together, Like there's this

1364
01:17:24,760 --> 01:17:26,600
day to fix it up together, figure out how to

1365
01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,720
do that. That's something you do every week together, no

1366
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,439
matter what happens. When the two of you, you kind

1367
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:32,279
of come together and you work on something that you

1368
01:17:32,359 --> 01:17:36,439
love that means something to both of you. Yeah, absolutely together, Yeah,

1369
01:17:36,479 --> 01:17:38,720
I would definitely give them something like that to help

1370
01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:41,479
them to have to work together in the moment, which

1371
01:17:41,560 --> 01:17:43,560
is which is why they're so successful in the film.

1372
01:17:43,680 --> 01:17:45,760
So really, I would be doing this with the OJ

1373
01:17:45,920 --> 01:17:48,520
and Emerald at the beginning of the movie, yeah, and

1374
01:17:48,560 --> 01:17:50,880
not necessarily the ones at the end, because at the

1375
01:17:50,920 --> 01:17:54,319
end they've had like almost post traumatic growth together. Yeah,

1376
01:17:54,399 --> 01:17:56,079
and they're in a much different place. Yeah. But I

1377
01:17:56,119 --> 01:17:58,720
just want to talk about sibling therapy because I don't

1378
01:17:58,760 --> 01:18:01,800
talk about it very much. So yeah, all right, Well,

1379
01:18:01,960 --> 01:18:04,239
one last break here and me back with final thoughts.

1380
01:18:06,279 --> 01:18:08,840
All right, Hannah, because this is one of your faves,

1381
01:18:08,880 --> 01:18:13,479
I'll have you go first. So I love this movie.

1382
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,039
I loved it when we saw it in the I think,

1383
01:18:16,079 --> 01:18:18,159
did we see it together in the movie theater? I

1384
01:18:18,159 --> 01:18:19,600
think so. Nope, Yeah, I think we did.

1385
01:18:20,119 --> 01:18:20,239
Speaker 2: So.

1386
01:18:20,399 --> 01:18:22,720
Speaker 1: I loved seeing it in the movie theater. It was

1387
01:18:23,000 --> 01:18:27,720
very shocking and very exciting. It was just a beautiful

1388
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:32,119
way to tell a really interesting story. And the acting

1389
01:18:32,319 --> 01:18:37,880
is excellent, the cinematography is amazing, and I really enjoy

1390
01:18:37,960 --> 01:18:40,880
the sibling relationship. You know, it's so rare that we

1391
01:18:40,960 --> 01:18:46,840
have in media a family of people of color who

1392
01:18:46,920 --> 01:18:49,840
have good relationships with each other, or who can grow

1393
01:18:49,880 --> 01:18:53,720
towards each other and are able to have positive relationships.

1394
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:56,399
We don't see that very much, and so a part

1395
01:18:56,439 --> 01:18:59,079
of what I really loved about this is that we

1396
01:18:59,119 --> 01:19:01,960
got to see a really beautiful relationship in a different

1397
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:08,680
context for once, which is really nice. And Yeah, and

1398
01:19:08,720 --> 01:19:10,720
I love it. I love everything about it. I watch

1399
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:13,119
it every once in a while. I bought it because

1400
01:19:13,119 --> 01:19:14,560
that's how much I like it, So I will definitely

1401
01:19:14,600 --> 01:19:17,640
watch it a thousand more times. All right, I'll always

1402
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:20,239
go to you, Ben, since this is your first watching

1403
01:19:20,319 --> 01:19:20,760
of it.

1404
01:19:20,760 --> 01:19:24,000
Speaker 2: It is my first watching of it, and I loved it.

1405
01:19:24,439 --> 01:19:27,680
I have loved each of Jordan Peele's movies that I've

1406
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:32,880
seen for similar reasons. I love the way he works

1407
01:19:33,920 --> 01:19:37,159
everything into the story. He's going to show it to you,

1408
01:19:38,079 --> 01:19:41,520
and then he's going to tie it together throughout the story,

1409
01:19:41,560 --> 01:19:43,840
and it will all make a full complete circle at

1410
01:19:43,880 --> 01:19:47,079
the end, and you won't necessarily see what he's going

1411
01:19:47,119 --> 01:19:49,720
to show it to show you, but then he'll show

1412
01:19:49,760 --> 01:19:52,119
you in the end and kind of give you that

1413
01:19:53,399 --> 01:19:57,439
sense of accomplishment that you understood his film. And he

1414
01:19:58,239 --> 01:20:01,039
lays it up but also works a lot of things

1415
01:20:01,119 --> 01:20:05,319
in subtly, like the way these characters gain mastery of

1416
01:20:05,359 --> 01:20:11,039
themselves and their story and their history and their race

1417
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:15,520
and the exclusions that are in there, like they're going

1418
01:20:15,600 --> 01:20:19,039
to be famous because of the work that they did.

1419
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:25,159
She used her technological wizardry to get those pictures and

1420
01:20:25,359 --> 01:20:27,640
use them in the same rotary thing. I forgot what

1421
01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:31,079
the name of that that first motion picture clip is,

1422
01:20:31,479 --> 01:20:34,079
but I know they have it at the Field Museum

1423
01:20:34,079 --> 01:20:37,840
here in Chicago. What I didn't know that, or the

1424
01:20:37,880 --> 01:20:39,640
Chicago History Museum, one of them, because I think they

1425
01:20:39,640 --> 01:20:42,960
showed it the Columbia Exposition, Colombian Exposition.

1426
01:20:43,039 --> 01:20:43,880
Speaker 1: Figuring that out.

1427
01:20:44,119 --> 01:20:45,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they have it, or they have a thing

1428
01:20:46,039 --> 01:20:49,760
but where you spin a circular thing about Nickelodeon.

1429
01:20:50,439 --> 01:20:52,079
Speaker 1: It's not called that, but I know what you mean.

1430
01:20:52,239 --> 01:20:54,520
Why do you think there was a nickel because it's

1431
01:20:54,520 --> 01:20:55,439
a Nickelodeon.

1432
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:57,439
Speaker 2: There you go behind the dad's eye.

1433
01:20:58,119 --> 01:21:02,800
Speaker 1: Oh shit, there you go. Symbolism, symbolism. I was just

1434
01:21:02,840 --> 01:21:06,640
gonna say that this movie, every time I watch it,

1435
01:21:06,680 --> 01:21:09,000
I noticed something new, And that's also what makes it

1436
01:21:09,039 --> 01:21:09,520
really fun.

1437
01:21:10,680 --> 01:21:13,359
Speaker 2: Those little things like that. That's that kind of thing

1438
01:21:13,359 --> 01:21:18,000
appeals to me as an audience member, but the easter

1439
01:21:18,079 --> 01:21:20,439
egg kind of thing that he puts into these like yeah,

1440
01:21:20,680 --> 01:21:22,920
the nickel I mean seriously, is a nickelodeon? That's why,

1441
01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:27,560
exactly why? And watching that I remember watching that as

1442
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:29,119
a kid. I don't know if maybe it's it's one

1443
01:21:29,159 --> 01:21:33,279
of the museums here. Anyway, they have that horse thing

1444
01:21:33,319 --> 01:21:37,600
where you spin the pictures and she is taking pictures

1445
01:21:37,600 --> 01:21:41,159
with the well.

1446
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:43,479
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, which is another spin rudimentary.

1447
01:21:43,239 --> 01:21:46,359
Speaker 2: Yep, correct, and each rotation is a picture. But she's

1448
01:21:46,399 --> 01:21:48,840
taking a still shot, which is how they did that

1449
01:21:49,319 --> 01:21:50,920
moving picture. It wasn't a movie.

1450
01:21:51,039 --> 01:21:53,960
Speaker 1: They picture picture, picture, picture, picture, picture picture.

1451
01:21:54,319 --> 01:22:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's they created their own camera to do that.

1452
01:22:00,640 --> 01:22:02,119
Her own way of doing it took a picture I

1453
01:22:02,119 --> 01:22:04,960
think every ten feet or something to catch the horse moving.

1454
01:22:05,079 --> 01:22:07,920
And that was invented. And she's inventing a new way

1455
01:22:07,960 --> 01:22:11,119
to capture pictures with the well, to capture pictures vertically

1456
01:22:11,119 --> 01:22:15,079
of this alien to prove it, and her and her

1457
01:22:15,119 --> 01:22:19,520
brother both had to completely actualize themselves in their own

1458
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:22,920
ways to form a complete unit and rescue their family

1459
01:22:22,960 --> 01:22:28,760
farm and their history and make relevance of this jockey

1460
01:22:29,520 --> 01:22:31,319
who was gone. And they did it in a way

1461
01:22:31,359 --> 01:22:36,159
that's relevant to their family by recreating that shot mechanic.

1462
01:22:36,680 --> 01:22:40,479
It's just brilliant writing to tell a very human story

1463
01:22:40,680 --> 01:22:45,520
but also make it all relevant to itself, to the characters,

1464
01:22:45,800 --> 01:22:48,239
to society at large, and do it in a way

1465
01:22:48,279 --> 01:22:50,800
that's entertaining masterpieces.

1466
01:22:51,079 --> 01:22:56,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I also love this movie and I'm excited

1467
01:22:56,279 --> 01:22:59,479
for you to watch it another time, Ben, because, like

1468
01:22:59,520 --> 01:23:02,680
Hanna was saying, it's such a tightly written story that

1469
01:23:02,760 --> 01:23:05,960
every time I watch it, I notice new things, Like

1470
01:23:06,000 --> 01:23:08,399
I didn't realize because I've only seen it. Maybe this

1471
01:23:08,439 --> 01:23:11,479
is like my third time watching it. I never noticed

1472
01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,239
how much set up they do in the beginning of

1473
01:23:13,279 --> 01:23:16,640
the movie, laying the groundwork for like where he's bread

1474
01:23:16,680 --> 01:23:19,840
crumbing about Jube's show, where you hear Jupe in the

1475
01:23:19,880 --> 01:23:22,880
far distance practicing for the show, Like I never noticed

1476
01:23:22,880 --> 01:23:25,119
that at first, Like this movie. And I've seen this

1477
01:23:25,159 --> 01:23:27,640
movie like twenty times and I didn't fucking notice either.

1478
01:23:28,039 --> 01:23:31,600
So this movie does a great job of yeah, like

1479
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:33,960
bread crumbing, all the stuff that's gonna happen later, like

1480
01:23:34,000 --> 01:23:36,920
everything makes sense, which I didn't appreciate the first time

1481
01:23:36,960 --> 01:23:38,319
I watched it. One because it was the first time

1482
01:23:38,319 --> 01:23:40,840
I watched it but also it felt so random with

1483
01:23:40,920 --> 01:23:44,239
like the chimp stuff, and then it went to this family,

1484
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:47,560
and so I've appreciated it more every time I watch it.

1485
01:23:48,119 --> 01:23:51,760
I love all the performances in it. I love that

1486
01:23:51,880 --> 01:23:56,800
it felt more et esque. I love an alien movie,

1487
01:23:56,960 --> 01:24:00,920
and this is more like a sci fi adventure situation,

1488
01:24:01,199 --> 01:24:05,359
like a family sci fi drama, then a horror movie.

1489
01:24:05,399 --> 01:24:07,039
So when I went into it the first time, I was,

1490
01:24:07,079 --> 01:24:10,039
you know, expecting something like Us, which scared the Jesus

1491
01:24:10,079 --> 01:24:10,439
out of me.

1492
01:24:10,640 --> 01:24:12,399
Speaker 2: So alien robots bad.

1493
01:24:12,560 --> 01:24:16,039
Speaker 1: Just for the record, yes, exactly, And so I love

1494
01:24:16,039 --> 01:24:18,119
this movie. I'll watch it again. I love Daniel Kalua

1495
01:24:18,159 --> 01:24:20,279
in it. I love Kiki Palmer in it. I love

1496
01:24:20,319 --> 01:24:22,319
that it's such a tight little movie. I love when

1497
01:24:22,319 --> 01:24:25,279
the alien shits all over their house out of revenge,

1498
01:24:25,560 --> 01:24:28,800
which is so disgusting. But yeah, I will watch this

1499
01:24:28,840 --> 01:24:31,680
movie ten times over. And this is yeah three for

1500
01:24:31,760 --> 01:24:33,840
three with Jordan Peele Movies on the podcast. So if

1501
01:24:33,880 --> 01:24:36,399
you like this, we also did Us and we've done

1502
01:24:36,399 --> 01:24:40,239
get Out, so we've covered them all so far exactly.

1503
01:24:41,119 --> 01:24:44,439
All right, Well, on that note, we will close out

1504
01:24:44,439 --> 01:24:47,960
this episode in our second Spooky Season episode. If you

1505
01:24:48,000 --> 01:24:52,319
would like to find us. You can find us on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok,

1506
01:24:52,560 --> 01:24:55,680
and threads at popcorn Psychology. You can email us at

1507
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:59,000
popcorn Psychology, gmail dot com. If you want to support us,

1508
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:02,239
you can find us on Patreon. You become a Patreon patron.

1509
01:25:02,560 --> 01:25:04,720
If you are a ten dollars or more patron, you

1510
01:25:04,760 --> 01:25:09,840
get free early well not free. If you're a ten

1511
01:25:09,880 --> 01:25:13,680
dollars or more patron, you get early unedited access to

1512
01:25:13,840 --> 01:25:16,920
some of our episodes. You also, if you're a fifty

1513
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:19,359
dollars or more patron, you can pick the subject of

1514
01:25:19,399 --> 01:25:21,680
an episode. If you would like to support us for

1515
01:25:21,840 --> 01:25:25,000
free skis, you can leave a review and a rating

1516
01:25:25,039 --> 01:25:26,880
wherever you listen to us. That is the best way

1517
01:25:26,920 --> 01:25:29,000
to actually support us and for new people to find us,

1518
01:25:29,000 --> 01:25:32,199
and we really appreciate it. So everybody, if you see

1519
01:25:32,199 --> 01:25:35,319
an alien cloud or whatever in the sky, don't try

1520
01:25:35,359 --> 01:25:37,119
to rein it in, just you know, try to leave

1521
01:25:37,159 --> 01:25:40,239
it alone. If we've learned nothing from this episode and

1522
01:25:40,319 --> 01:25:42,760
have a good spooky season, Happy Halloween.