WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.320 In March nineteen twenty eight, nine year old Walter Collins 2 00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.039 left his home in Los Angeles to go see a movie, 3 00:00:14.839 --> 00:00:19.399 but he never returned. His disappearance set off a massive 4 00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:23.719 search and exposed deep failures inside the Los Angeles Police Department, 5 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:28.000 and also pulled his mother into a public nightmare. She 6 00:00:28.079 --> 00:00:34.000 never escaped. As investigators chased false leads and forced quick answers, 7 00:00:34.479 --> 00:00:37.719 a serial killer was quietly operating on a remote ranch 8 00:00:38.200 --> 00:00:41.560 just outside the city. What followed became one of the 9 00:00:41.640 --> 00:00:45.679 most disturbing true crime cases in California history. This is 10 00:00:45.719 --> 00:00:48.920 the story of the Wineville Chicken Coop murders. 11 00:00:50.640 --> 00:00:54.240 My name's Ben, I'm Nicole, and you're listening to Wicked 12 00:00:54.280 --> 00:00:55.119 and Grim. 13 00:00:54.840 --> 00:01:04.480 A true crime podcasting. Following material intended more mature audience. 14 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:07.480 Listener discretion is advised. 15 00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:30.239 You gotta be leery of those people that live on ranches. 16 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:31.400 I think you do. 17 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:35.879 I I was just editing my heart out this weekend, 18 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:39.079 and so when i'm editing, I just usually watch something 19 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:41.799 because it's a bit boring and tedious. And I was 20 00:01:41.840 --> 00:01:44.840 watching just a ton of true crime episodes, and the 21 00:01:44.840 --> 00:01:49.400 amount of just shit that went down on ranches is 22 00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:51.120 kind of alarming. 23 00:01:51.200 --> 00:01:55.200 Actually, well, I think it's not that people who own 24 00:01:55.400 --> 00:01:58.680 or live or operate on ranches are the lawless people. 25 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:03.840 It's the land can become lawless because it doesn't really 26 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:05.599 have all the eyes on it, you know what I mean. 27 00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:08.120 I guess and I'm not saying all people that own 28 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:10.680 a lot of land are terrible people, but I mean, 29 00:02:10.680 --> 00:02:13.639 I guess that opportunity for them to be is there. 30 00:02:13.960 --> 00:02:18.879 I mean, technically speaking, we live on a ranch. Technically speaking, yeah, 31 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:20.960 we have a little tiny hobby farm. We don't like 32 00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:24.520 we we're what renting a quarter acre half an acre 33 00:02:24.960 --> 00:02:26.639 and we have our little chicken coop. We're on the 34 00:02:26.719 --> 00:02:29.439 edge of a hay field. There's deer and coyotes that 35 00:02:29.520 --> 00:02:31.319 run around outside our fence and stuff. 36 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:33.199 Well, I would love to have a ranch one day. 37 00:02:33.240 --> 00:02:35.879 So what's that saying about me that says. 38 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:38.719 You need to start saving your money because gosh darn, 39 00:02:38.840 --> 00:02:40.680 those are expensive pieces of land. 40 00:02:41.039 --> 00:02:44.080 Yeah, land is not cheap. Nothing is cheap nowadays. 41 00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:47.000 No, it's not. It seems like everything's just so expensive. 42 00:02:47.919 --> 00:02:50.680 But hey, just do what you do, and yeah, keep 43 00:02:50.759 --> 00:02:52.919 enjoying yourself. And if you really want to enjoy yourself, 44 00:02:52.919 --> 00:02:54.639 one way you can do. That is by signing up 45 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:58.080 over on Patreon and supporting our show, you get exclusive 46 00:02:58.120 --> 00:03:00.840 behind the scenes stuff. You get an exclude episode that 47 00:03:00.879 --> 00:03:02.599 comes out at the end of every month, which is 48 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:05.039 coming up in just a few days, a whole new 49 00:03:05.039 --> 00:03:06.800 episode exclusive to Patrios. 50 00:03:06.840 --> 00:03:09.719 Oh cool. And it literally is about like a cup 51 00:03:09.759 --> 00:03:12.960 of coffee a month. It's not people. I know people 52 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:15.439 think it's super expensive to sign up on there, but 53 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:17.319 I'm just saying it's not too too bad. 54 00:03:17.439 --> 00:03:19.319 It's not. You basically buy us a cup of coffee 55 00:03:19.360 --> 00:03:21.800 and you get the exclusive access, just like we have 56 00:03:22.000 --> 00:03:27.199 with Casey Barnes and also with Sherry Harmison. They both 57 00:03:27.280 --> 00:03:29.919 signed up and are getting that exclusive behind. 58 00:03:29.680 --> 00:03:31.479 The scenes that good good cough. 59 00:03:31.800 --> 00:03:34.240 That good good as I'd like to say that, yes, 60 00:03:34.319 --> 00:03:34.759 you're right. 61 00:03:35.560 --> 00:03:37.560 Before we dive in this episode, I just wanted to 62 00:03:38.080 --> 00:03:41.199 touch on one thing. So we have Spotify comments that 63 00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:44.840 come in, and someone did a Spotify comment that I 64 00:03:44.879 --> 00:03:46.800 just thought was hilarious. 65 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:48.759 Yes, I've actually got it in front of me here, 66 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.240 so Abbie wrote. I work with offenders in rehabilitation and 67 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:55.120 one of the things we ask the guys when they 68 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:58.240 try and say they were drunk, blacked out drunk or 69 00:03:58.319 --> 00:04:00.680 high or whatever is how how out of it do 70 00:04:00.719 --> 00:04:02.879 you have to be to make out with your grandma? 71 00:04:03.039 --> 00:04:06.719 Like full tongue. Their responses really hit home the notion 72 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:09.800 that no matter how out of it you are, you 73 00:04:09.919 --> 00:04:14.759 still have choices, and that is hilarious. They commented that 74 00:04:14.840 --> 00:04:16.639 on the seventy two minutes of Hell the Air and 75 00:04:16.759 --> 00:04:21.399 or Cut episode that we recently did, and that is genius. 76 00:04:21.720 --> 00:04:24.240 Oh I was blacked out. I don't remember doing that. Okay, 77 00:04:24.680 --> 00:04:28.560 So if you don't remember murdering someone, say, or you know, 78 00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.279 sexually assaulting someone in that case, would you make sure 79 00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:34.720 that you don't go and make out with your grandma? Well? 80 00:04:34.759 --> 00:04:36.439 Of course I would never. Well then why would you 81 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:37.120 do these things? 82 00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:42.160 Yeah? I just felt like that. They because, yeah, right away, 83 00:04:42.360 --> 00:04:44.920 Oh my gosh, I could never do something like that, 84 00:04:45.439 --> 00:04:48.439 like would I could be completely out of my mind 85 00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:51.240 and I wouldn't do that. So then okay, then why 86 00:04:51.240 --> 00:04:51.879 did you do this? 87 00:04:52.199 --> 00:04:52.439 Yeah? 88 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.040 You knew, you know, you're able to still kind of 89 00:04:55.040 --> 00:04:57.000 be in there and know a little bit what you're doing. 90 00:04:57.279 --> 00:05:01.600 Yes, So it just it collapses that notion entirely, and 91 00:05:01.680 --> 00:05:04.800 I love that, So thank you for that comment. That's hilarious. 92 00:05:04.839 --> 00:05:07.199 I love that I did actually laugh out loud. That 93 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:07.920 was a good one. 94 00:05:08.040 --> 00:05:10.040 You actually laughed out loud when you told me about 95 00:05:10.040 --> 00:05:12.680 that comment too, so chuckled. 96 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:13.639 Yeah, I was chuckling. 97 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:18.199 Chuckling a little bit of a raffle, I guess. But anyways, 98 00:05:18.199 --> 00:05:20.240 are you interested in what we have to talk about today? 99 00:05:20.279 --> 00:05:21.600 A chicken coop murder? 100 00:05:21.720 --> 00:05:22.439 I sure am? 101 00:05:22.519 --> 00:05:23.120 You sure are? 102 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:23.959 Well? 103 00:05:24.000 --> 00:05:26.199 Do you want me to get into our little prelude, 104 00:05:26.199 --> 00:05:28.959 our intro that we're doing, Hm, let's do it. Also, 105 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:30.720 I'm curious what do you guys think of this intro 106 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:32.800 that we've been trying out. We got the intro at 107 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.720 the very beginning, and then we've been doing this prelude 108 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:37.439 where I kind of build up the story a little 109 00:05:37.439 --> 00:05:39.319 bit more for you guys, I'm curious as to what 110 00:05:39.360 --> 00:05:41.600 you think of it. I'm still trying it out, making 111 00:05:41.639 --> 00:05:43.519 sure that it works with the show, So if you 112 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:45.879 have thoughts on it, let us know. I know we've 113 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:47.759 had some comments of people saying, oh, you're giving away 114 00:05:47.759 --> 00:05:49.800 a little too much in the beginning, so I'm trying 115 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:51.839 to dial that back a bit this time and not 116 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:55.360 give away too much, but give away just enough. 117 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:57.519 Okay, let's see how it goes okay. 118 00:05:58.600 --> 00:06:02.040 In the late nineteen twenties, Los Angeles was growing faster 119 00:06:02.160 --> 00:06:06.319 than almost any city in the country. Housing developments spread outwards, 120 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:11.959 farmlands disappeared, and Hollywood was being born. Families arrived daily, 121 00:06:12.040 --> 00:06:14.480 drawn by the steady work and the promise of stability. 122 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.879 Newspapers described the region as modern, safe, and full of opportunity. 123 00:06:19.600 --> 00:06:22.600 Behind that image, though the city was struggling to keep up. 124 00:06:23.040 --> 00:06:27.600 The Los Angeles Police Department was overstretched and understaffed. Detectives 125 00:06:27.639 --> 00:06:31.759 carried very heavy caseloads. Internal corruption scandals had begun to 126 00:06:31.839 --> 00:06:36.040 damage public trust, and city officials and newspaper editors demanded 127 00:06:36.319 --> 00:06:41.759 fast results, especially in cases involving children. Unsolved crimes were 128 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:47.160 becoming political problems, not just police failures. Only months earlier, 129 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.240 in fact, the kidnapping and murder of twelve year old 130 00:06:50.600 --> 00:06:54.639 Marian Parker had horrified the nation. Her case left parents 131 00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:58.279 very fearful and angry. It also placed enormous pressure on 132 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:03.079 law enforcement. Every missing child that followed was treated as 133 00:07:03.079 --> 00:07:07.680 a potential catastrophe, another high profile failure that was something 134 00:07:07.720 --> 00:07:11.319 department it just could not afford, and beyond the city limits. 135 00:07:11.360 --> 00:07:16.480 Conditions well they were very different. Rural communities remained isolated 136 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:21.519 and very lightly policed, chicken ranches and citrus grows with 137 00:07:21.720 --> 00:07:26.000 dirt roads stretching out for miles. Neighbors lived very far apart. 138 00:07:26.639 --> 00:07:29.959 Complaints were slow to be investigated, and outsiders came and 139 00:07:30.000 --> 00:07:33.800 went without much notice. Now, these areas existed in a 140 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.519 bit of a blind spot between city police and county authorities. 141 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.120 It was the kind of environment where unusual behavior could 142 00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:46.680 go unnoticed, and well it did. During nineteen twenty eight, 143 00:07:46.720 --> 00:07:51.800 disturbing reports began arriving from across southern California. Children disappeared, 144 00:07:52.079 --> 00:07:57.839 parents received strange letters. Witnesses described boys traveling with unfamiliar adults. 145 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:00.920 A gas station attendant even reported seeing what looked like 146 00:08:00.959 --> 00:08:05.160 a dead child wrapped in newspaper. Farmers complained about violent 147 00:08:05.160 --> 00:08:08.000 behavior in a remote poultry ranch, but none of these 148 00:08:08.040 --> 00:08:12.160 reports seemed connected to one another. Each was investigated briefly 149 00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:15.079 and with not much evidence or much to go on, 150 00:08:15.199 --> 00:08:20.199 they were simply filed away individually. Meanwhile, inside the LAPD, 151 00:08:20.439 --> 00:08:24.720 frustration was building. Detectives were chasing hundreds of leads with 152 00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:30.920 little success. Superiors demanded progress, and reports demanded answers. Families, 153 00:08:30.959 --> 00:08:34.440 of course, well, they demanded results, and in some cases, 154 00:08:34.519 --> 00:08:37.559 finding a solution to a case quickly became more important 155 00:08:37.600 --> 00:08:41.759 than actually solving it correctly. Now. At that time, a 156 00:08:41.879 --> 00:08:45.639 dangerous man was moving quietly through its fractured system. On 157 00:08:45.720 --> 00:08:49.679 an isolated ranch east of la far from major patrol 158 00:08:49.799 --> 00:08:54.360 routes and public scrutiny. A predator was operating almost unnoticed. 159 00:08:54.799 --> 00:08:59.039 He exploited the gaps between jurisdictions and relied on that distance. 160 00:09:00.000 --> 00:09:03.120 By the summer of nineteen twenty eight, several investigations were 161 00:09:03.159 --> 00:09:06.639 beginning to unravel all at once. A mother was losing 162 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.799 faith in the police, and two families were receiving letters 163 00:09:09.799 --> 00:09:12.720 that made no sense. A teenager was living in terror 164 00:09:12.759 --> 00:09:15.879 on a rural farm, and investigators were left scratching their heads. 165 00:09:16.399 --> 00:09:19.919 None of them yet realized how closely their lives were 166 00:09:19.960 --> 00:09:25.200 about to collide. Within months, these scattered cases would merge 167 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:29.440 into one of the most disturbing criminal investigations in California's history, 168 00:09:29.960 --> 00:09:35.039 exposing institutional failure, abuse of power, and crimes that had 169 00:09:35.080 --> 00:09:38.600 been allowed to go on for far too long. And 170 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.799 it all began with a nine year old boy walking 171 00:09:41.840 --> 00:09:46.600 towards a movie theater and never coming home. Now, with 172 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:50.279 all that said and done, let's get into the heart 173 00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.519 of the story. By the late nineteen twenties, Southern California 174 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:59.720 was experiencing a very rapid growth. Agriculture remained a major industry, 175 00:09:59.759 --> 00:10:02.720 whi all the movie or should I say motion picture 176 00:10:02.759 --> 00:10:07.919 based industry had turned Los Angeles into an international center 177 00:10:08.000 --> 00:10:12.559 for film production. New housing developments expanded across the region, 178 00:10:12.600 --> 00:10:15.360 and thousands of people moved into the city each year 179 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.679 looking for work. Neighborhoods such as Lincoln Heights, Mount Washington, 180 00:10:20.919 --> 00:10:25.240 and surrounding districts became increasingly populated by working class families. 181 00:10:26.159 --> 00:10:30.440 With this growth, though, there came new challenges. Crime rates 182 00:10:30.519 --> 00:10:34.559 increased alongside the new population density. The Los Angeles Police 183 00:10:34.559 --> 00:10:39.240 Department or LAPD, was facing internal problems, including allegations of 184 00:10:39.240 --> 00:10:44.559 corruption and poor oversight. Several scandals had damaged public confidence 185 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:47.440 in the department, and senior officers were under pressure to 186 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:52.559 demonstrate effectiveness in high profile cases. Public concern for child 187 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:56.000 safety was already heightened in early nineteen twenty eight. In 188 00:10:56.039 --> 00:10:59.559 December nineteen twenty seven, for example, the kidnapping and murder 189 00:10:59.600 --> 00:11:02.000 of twelve one of year old Marian Parker had received 190 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:06.279 extensive national coverage, and the case left many families afraid 191 00:11:06.320 --> 00:11:11.519 and very distrustful of strangers. Newspapers continued to reference this 192 00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:15.279 Parker case well into the following year, and disappearances involving 193 00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:19.960 children were treated as major news. By March nineteen twenty eight. 194 00:11:20.159 --> 00:11:24.919 The LAPD was operating in a very difficult environment. Investigators 195 00:11:24.919 --> 00:11:28.120 were expected to produce results, and produce them extremely quickly, 196 00:11:28.320 --> 00:11:32.240 especially in cases involving these children, and failures were widely 197 00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:35.919 criticized in press and unresolved cases while they were seen 198 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:41.840 as evidence of incompetence. Police leadership, including Chief James Davis, 199 00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:45.840 faced increasing scrutiny from both the public and city officials. 200 00:11:46.879 --> 00:11:50.399 It was within this context of a growing city public 201 00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:54.600 anxiety over violent crimes, and a police department under intense 202 00:11:54.639 --> 00:11:59.200 pressure that the disappearance of nine year old Walter Collins 203 00:11:59.399 --> 00:12:04.360 had occurred now. Walter Conrad Collins was born in September 204 00:12:04.440 --> 00:12:07.840 nineteen eighteen, and he lived with his mother, Christine Collins, 205 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:11.639 in the Lincoln Heights area of Los Angeles. Christine worked 206 00:12:11.639 --> 00:12:14.480 as a telephone operator and supported the household on her own. 207 00:12:14.799 --> 00:12:18.600 Because Walter's father, Walter Joseph Collins was serving a sentence 208 00:12:18.879 --> 00:12:22.679 at Folsom State Prison for robbery at the time. Now, 209 00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:26.240 Christine and her son had a close relationship. By nineteen 210 00:12:26.279 --> 00:12:29.000 twenty eight, Walter was nine years old and had developed 211 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:32.759 a very regular routine. He attended school, spent time in 212 00:12:32.519 --> 00:12:35.919 the neighborhood, you know, frequently visiting nearby movie theaters, which 213 00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:38.919 were popular gathering places for children and families at the time. 214 00:12:39.840 --> 00:12:43.480 On Saturday, March tenth, nineteen twenty eight, Christine gave Walter 215 00:12:43.639 --> 00:12:45.919 some money and allowed him to go walk to a 216 00:12:45.919 --> 00:12:49.039 local theater to see a movie. Now, the theater was 217 00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:51.559 located within a reasonable distance of their home, and it 218 00:12:51.600 --> 00:12:53.600 was very common for kids in the area to walk 219 00:12:53.639 --> 00:12:56.720 there alone. It was no big deal, but that afternoon. 220 00:12:57.480 --> 00:13:01.120 A neighbor later reported seeing Walter round five near the 221 00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.679 corner of Pasadena Avenue in North Avenue twenty three. He 222 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:08.799 was wearing a lumberjacket, a brown corduroy trousers, black Oxford shoes, 223 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:11.480 and a gray cap. But this will be the last 224 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:16.000 ever confirmed sighting of him, as Walter never returned home. 225 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:19.799 That's really something you don't see so much anymore. Hey, 226 00:13:20.039 --> 00:13:23.639 Like kids are not given any freedom and I'm not 227 00:13:23.679 --> 00:13:25.919 saying that's a bad thing in any way, but yeah, 228 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:28.399 you don't just send your kid with money to go 229 00:13:28.480 --> 00:13:33.000 do something because the world, I guess knows what can happen. 230 00:13:33.120 --> 00:13:35.320 They've done what can happen. Also, technology is a little 231 00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:37.120 bit different. Instead of handing him cash to go see 232 00:13:37.120 --> 00:13:39.879 a movie, you know, you're you're handing them a tablet, 233 00:13:39.960 --> 00:13:42.559 or you're handing them v bucks or roeblocks money for 234 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:45.840 their game, things like that. Yeah, now I understand that 235 00:13:45.919 --> 00:13:48.360 I'm not saying that necessarily in a negative way. There's 236 00:13:48.399 --> 00:13:52.039 negative and positive connotations to both, of course, But it's 237 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:55.480 just such a different world and how things have changed, 238 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.159 not only because you know technology, but like you say 239 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:01.919 and point out, because of what we've learned from incidents 240 00:14:01.960 --> 00:14:02.919 in the past, Like. 241 00:14:02.919 --> 00:14:07.039 It's almost alarming seeing a kid just wander or walking solo. 242 00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:10.519 You don't see it very much anymore. 243 00:14:10.600 --> 00:14:13.080 I betcha if you ever see a kid walking solo 244 00:14:13.679 --> 00:14:15.279 their heads down and they're looking at. 245 00:14:15.159 --> 00:14:19.559 Their phone, which is probably also making them in danger 246 00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:22.120 in a sense, they're not paying attention and they're surrounding right. 247 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:24.840 Definitely, That's exactly where I was leading because it's like, oh, 248 00:14:24.879 --> 00:14:27.000 you know what. Yeah, they might be connected and they 249 00:14:27.000 --> 00:14:29.440 can call for help, but they're not looking at their surroundings. 250 00:14:29.759 --> 00:14:32.600 So while we may be more safe in some ways, 251 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:34.000 we are less safe in others. 252 00:14:34.200 --> 00:14:36.440 Okay, this is just really off. For one quick sec 253 00:14:36.799 --> 00:14:39.879 I was chatting with a teacher recently and they were 254 00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:43.440 talking about phones nowadays in schools and stuff, right, and 255 00:14:43.559 --> 00:14:47.159 saying like, the hallways often are just like silence in 256 00:14:47.240 --> 00:14:49.799 schools because the kids are just on their phone. 257 00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:50.559 Oh damn. 258 00:14:50.559 --> 00:14:53.000 And to me that was just like, are you kidding me? 259 00:14:53.399 --> 00:14:55.039 Because when I was in school, it was just like 260 00:14:55.120 --> 00:14:58.399 loud and people were annoying and yelling and doing whatever. 261 00:14:58.559 --> 00:15:02.360 Now they're just like on their phone, and so it's 262 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.919 not all that hustle and bustle. Really wow, And I 263 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:06.879 had never thought of that. 264 00:15:07.159 --> 00:15:10.639 Blows my mind. Yeah, yeah, all right, I mean it 265 00:15:10.679 --> 00:15:14.519 makes sense. Again, I'm not judging. There's positive and negative 266 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.039 to both there. We were going to school, Yeah, we're 267 00:15:17.080 --> 00:15:20.840 like we're reminiscing and romanticizing it. I had got pelted 268 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:22.960 in the back with an orange once in the halls 269 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:26.600 at high school. Like, there's positives to it, there's definitely 270 00:15:26.639 --> 00:15:29.279 negatives on both sides, but it is definitely a different 271 00:15:29.320 --> 00:15:31.120 world today than it is or was. 272 00:15:31.120 --> 00:15:33.639 Back then, very much so now. 273 00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:37.120 When evening came and Walter didn't come home, Christine assumed 274 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:39.399 he may have just stayed out late or than usual, 275 00:15:39.559 --> 00:15:41.240 you know where, maybe he had gone to a friend's 276 00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.679 house something like that. But as the night passed with 277 00:15:43.720 --> 00:15:46.080 a word from him, she began to get increasingly worried, 278 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:50.360 and by the next morning he still wasn't home. Ultimately, though, 279 00:15:50.480 --> 00:15:54.440 Christine had waited several days before contacting police, and on 280 00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.200 March fifteenth, nineteen twenty eight, five days after Walter was 281 00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:02.559 last seen, she formally reported her son missing to the LAPD. 282 00:16:03.159 --> 00:16:03.960 What the shit? 283 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:06.759 Well, that delay was later questioned as well. But the 284 00:16:06.799 --> 00:16:09.399 thing is like, at the time, it wasn't exactly unusual 285 00:16:09.440 --> 00:16:11.759 for parents to just hope that their child had wandered 286 00:16:11.759 --> 00:16:14.600 off or stayed with an acquaintance or something. So the 287 00:16:14.639 --> 00:16:17.519 assumption he's just going to be home in a couple days, oh, 288 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:21.440 was not exactly abnormal. Now, if your kid is missing 289 00:16:21.480 --> 00:16:24.919 for an hour, you know what, You're like, something's wrong. 290 00:16:25.159 --> 00:16:27.000 Then it was like a day or two, and it's like, Okay, 291 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:29.480 maybe I should get worried different time. 292 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:31.480 Right, I guess, but that's mind blowing to me. 293 00:16:32.080 --> 00:16:35.240 Well, different time, I guess. Yeah, it's mind blowing to 294 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:37.200 you that kids are on their cell phones in the 295 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:41.039 hallway at school too, So right, it just shows that difference, 296 00:16:41.279 --> 00:16:45.200 that's all it does. Now, after Christine filed the missing 297 00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:49.080 person's report with the LAPD, they began an extensive search 298 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.120 for Walter. Officers canvas the Lincoln Heights neighborhood, spoke with neighbors, 299 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.440 and attempted to retrace his route to the theater that night. 300 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.360 Police searched the area where children were known to gather too, 301 00:16:59.399 --> 00:17:03.000 including part werks, vacant lots, nearby waterways, and one of 302 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.839 the earliest searches focused on Lincoln Park Lake, where officers 303 00:17:06.839 --> 00:17:09.720 and volunteers looked for any sign that Walter might have 304 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:12.160 fallen in or been pushed into the water, but no 305 00:17:12.200 --> 00:17:15.960 evidence was found. Now, as news of the disappearance spread, 306 00:17:16.079 --> 00:17:18.559 tips began to pour in from across the city and 307 00:17:18.599 --> 00:17:21.880 the surrounding areas too. Some claimed to have seen a 308 00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:26.079 boy matching Walter's description riding streetcars. Others believe they spotted 309 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:29.359 him in shopping districts or near train stations, but most 310 00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:32.559 of these reports just couldn't be verified. One of the 311 00:17:32.599 --> 00:17:35.799 most disturbing early leads, though, came from Glendale, when a 312 00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:39.759 gas station attendant named Richard Strauthers reported that a couple 313 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:42.759 had stopped for directions with what appeared to be a 314 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.559 dead boy wrapped in newspaper in the back seat of 315 00:17:46.599 --> 00:17:49.799 their car with only his head visible. 316 00:17:50.759 --> 00:17:52.119 Oh my goodness. 317 00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:55.359 Yeah now, Richard said the couple appeared foreign and acted 318 00:17:55.400 --> 00:18:00.480 extremely nervous. Another man Cebee State, Stanley Laid, claimed that 319 00:18:00.559 --> 00:18:03.440 he followed this same couple after they left the gas station, 320 00:18:03.920 --> 00:18:06.440 and according to him, the vehicle briefly stopped in front 321 00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:10.400 of a police station before speeding away and disappearing from sight. 322 00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:15.880 When police showed Richard and Stanley a photograph of Walter, 323 00:18:16.359 --> 00:18:18.960 both men said they believed that that child was the 324 00:18:19.000 --> 00:18:20.519 one they had seen in the back seat. 325 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:26.319 Holy just in the backseat, wrapped in newspaper. Dead Yes, okay. 326 00:18:26.920 --> 00:18:31.079 Now, Despite the seriousness of this report, investigators were unable 327 00:18:31.160 --> 00:18:34.640 to locate the couple or the vehicle, no physical evidence 328 00:18:34.680 --> 00:18:38.839 supported the claim, and the lead eventually stalled. So that 329 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.000 is all we know of that incident. 330 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:43.319 That's terrifying. 331 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:46.519 So whether it's connected to this or not. That is 332 00:18:46.599 --> 00:18:49.279 all we know, and that in itself is terrifying, honestly. 333 00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.359 Well, I'm just hoping it was a doll or a 334 00:18:52.440 --> 00:18:53.720 mannequin or something. 335 00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.599 Yeah, something that they just thought they saw, who knows, 336 00:18:56.599 --> 00:18:58.640 maybe even a pilot closed And there was like a 337 00:18:59.279 --> 00:19:02.519 tan colored sweatshirt that, just as it was folded, looked 338 00:19:02.599 --> 00:19:05.079 kind of like a boy's face with the shadows. Who knows. 339 00:19:05.680 --> 00:19:09.240 Hopefully it wasn't actually sweet, Yeah, we can hope. Now. 340 00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:12.640 Other reports suggested that a boy was being transported around 341 00:19:12.640 --> 00:19:15.759 California by a man and a woman and was pleading 342 00:19:15.839 --> 00:19:19.839 with strangers for help. These stories were investigated but ultimately 343 00:19:19.920 --> 00:19:24.799 led nowhere. Each new tip required time, manpower, and most 344 00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.079 collapsed under any sort of scrutiny. Meanwhile, Walter's father, still 345 00:19:29.079 --> 00:19:33.519 incarcerated at fulsome prison, developed his own theory. He believed 346 00:19:33.519 --> 00:19:36.920 that former inmates may have abducted his son in some 347 00:19:36.920 --> 00:19:39.839 sort of retaliation. You see, while in prison, he worked 348 00:19:39.839 --> 00:19:43.759 in the cafeteria and was responsible for reporting rule violations 349 00:19:44.559 --> 00:19:48.519 aka snitch. This role had earned him a lot of 350 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:51.880 resentment from other prisoners, and he feared that someone may 351 00:19:51.920 --> 00:19:55.440 have targeted his family as revenge. Now, police looked into 352 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:58.599 this possibility, but found no direct evidence linking any former 353 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.680 inmates to Walter's disappe appearance. By late spring and early 354 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:05.960 summer of nineteen twenty eight, the investigation had grown large, 355 00:20:06.039 --> 00:20:11.240 but rather unfocused. Officers were chasing dozens of these unrelated leads, 356 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:14.160 but no confirmed sightings had ever been made. No ransom 357 00:20:14.240 --> 00:20:17.440 demands had been made either, and no evidence of any 358 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.480 sort had been recovered, and so the case simply remained open, 359 00:20:21.759 --> 00:20:26.559 active and increasingly frustrating. Public attention continued to grow too, 360 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:29.799 and newspapers regularly criticized the police for failing to make 361 00:20:29.839 --> 00:20:33.359 any progress in the case. For the LAPD every week 362 00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.519 without answers, increased pressure from city officials and the public, 363 00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:41.680 and now, on May sixteenth, nineteen twenty eight, something else happened. 364 00:20:42.720 --> 00:20:47.079 Two brothers from Panama, twelve year old Lewis Winslow and 365 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.400 ten year old Nelson Winslow, also disappeared. The boys had 366 00:20:51.440 --> 00:20:53.640 been attending a meeting at a local yacht club and 367 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:57.000 were walking home when they vanished. Their parents reported the 368 00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:02.079 missing and that was kind of that. Shortly after their disappearance, 369 00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:05.640 the Winslow family began receiving unusual letters though the first 370 00:21:05.720 --> 00:21:08.960 letters claimed that the boys were traveling to Mexico, and 371 00:21:09.039 --> 00:21:11.599 a second letter suggested that they were intending to remain 372 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:14.559 missing for as long as possible in order to try 373 00:21:14.599 --> 00:21:18.279 and become famous. The tone and content of the letters 374 00:21:18.359 --> 00:21:21.680 raised a lot of concern, but investigators were unable to 375 00:21:21.680 --> 00:21:25.599 determine who had written them or where the boys were. Now. 376 00:21:25.640 --> 00:21:29.559 Around that same period, authorities were dealing with another disturbing 377 00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:33.640 case too. In February of nineteen twenty eight, several weeks 378 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:38.160 before Walter disappeared, police had discovered the headless body of 379 00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:43.119 a Latino boy near La Puenta, California. The victim was 380 00:21:43.200 --> 00:21:47.160 later believed to be Alvin Gothia. Now. In addition to 381 00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.680 these incidents, local authorities had received complaints about a poultry 382 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:53.799 farm in the rural community of Wineville, located in the 383 00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.759 Riverside County as well. Now neighbors reported that a man 384 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.359 on the property appeared to be mistreating young boy. These 385 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:04.799 complaints were recorded, but not really treated as urgent, and 386 00:22:04.839 --> 00:22:09.359 they were largely overlooked. During this period, investigators did not 387 00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:15.079 recognize a broader pattern Walter's disappearance, the Winslow brother's case, 388 00:22:15.119 --> 00:22:18.559 and the Lapuenta homicide also mixed with the reports from 389 00:22:18.559 --> 00:22:22.599 the Winesville They were all handled separately by different departments 390 00:22:22.599 --> 00:22:26.839 and agencies. Communications between jurisdictions was limited, and there was 391 00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.440 no centralized system to connect any sort of similar cases. 392 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.079 So as a result, opportunities to identify links between these 393 00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:39.119 events were simply missed. Now by the summer of nineteen 394 00:22:39.200 --> 00:22:42.279 twenty eight, nearly five months had passed since Walter Collins 395 00:22:42.279 --> 00:22:47.079 had disappeared. Despite extensive efforts, the LAPD had no solid leads. 396 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:50.279 Public criticism continued to mount, of course, and the case 397 00:22:50.359 --> 00:22:54.759 was increasingly viewed as another example of police failure. Then, 398 00:22:55.000 --> 00:22:58.880 in August of nineteen twenty eight, an unexpected development occurred 399 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.680 more than seven eighteen hundred miles away. 400 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.119 This is really scary, it is, And I can kind 401 00:23:06.119 --> 00:23:09.359