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Speaker 6: You are now listening to True Murder, the most shocking
Speaker 6: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 6: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every
Speaker 6: week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and
Speaker 6: infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your host,
Speaker 6: journalist and author Dan Zufanski.
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Speaker 7: True Murder for a ten percent discount. Edward Wayne Edwards,
Speaker 7: a misguided boy vowed to be the best criminal ever.
Speaker 7: He killed scores and scores of people of all ages
Speaker 7: over a sixty six year period and was never apprehended
Speaker 7: for murder. Included are some of the most famous cases
Speaker 7: in the past century. The book that we are featuring
Speaker 7: this evening is It's Me Edward Wayne Edwards, the serial
Speaker 7: killer you Never heard of. With my special guest journalist
Speaker 7: and author and detective John A. Cameron. Welcome to the program,
Speaker 7: and thank you for agree to his interview.
Speaker 2: John Cameron, Well, thanks for having me on Dan. It's
Speaker 2: a pleasure to talk about mister Edwards. Most people have
Speaker 2: never heard of this serial camel and I think they'd
Speaker 2: be very interested in the story.
Speaker 7: Absolutely, absolutely, it's just mind blowing and so we better
Speaker 7: get right into it. Why don't you outline your background,
Speaker 7: which will obviously is very very very important to this case.
Speaker 7: So give us your background. And you have a famous
Speaker 7: ritualistic serial killer. You were on a task force, so
Speaker 7: just tell us briefly what your background was before Edward
Speaker 7: Wayne Edwards came to your attention.
Speaker 2: Yeah, certainly. I was a great false Montana police detective
Speaker 2: for twenty four years. I retired in two thousand and
Speaker 2: five at the rank of sergeant of detectives and I
Speaker 2: was in charge of cold cases for a lot of
Speaker 2: my career. And when I retired, I went to work
Speaker 2: for the Montana Board of Pardons and Parole and Deer
Speaker 2: Lodge Prison, Montana, and my job in that position was
Speaker 2: to be an analyst for all of the paroles wanting
Speaker 2: to get out of prison, and that is I would
Speaker 2: sit down with them in review them, review their cases,
Speaker 2: and make a recommendation to the parole board as to
Speaker 2: whether or not those people are deserving of an early release.
Speaker 2: And in twenty ten, while I was working in this position,
Speaker 2: I was introduced to a serial killer that just got
Speaker 2: caught at the age of seventy six in Ohio and
Speaker 2: his name was Edward Wayne Edwards. And I eventually tied
Speaker 2: this man to a nineteen fifty six lovers Lane double
Speaker 2: murder that happened here in Great Falls. And mister Edwards
Speaker 2: in twenty ten was actually confessing to lovers Lane's murders
Speaker 2: in Ohio and Wisconsin, and so I decided to challenge
Speaker 2: him with letters, and that began the unraveling of what
Speaker 2: he had done.
Speaker 7: Now let's go back for our audience, because sorry, let's
Speaker 7: go back for our audience to March ninth, two thousand
Speaker 7: and nine in Madison, Wisconsin, and I have ran a
Speaker 7: story in the media there of a thirty year old
Speaker 7: cold case Timothy Hack and Kelly Drew. And let's talk
Speaker 7: about this case a little bit and how this really
Speaker 7: happened and who came forward. So let's talk about this
Speaker 7: news story that was in Madison, Wisconsin, generated from a
Speaker 7: newspaper there. Tell us why they ran this story, this
Speaker 7: thirty year old cold case, and what it contained, and
Speaker 7: then what was the result of them running case in
Speaker 7: terms of people contacting the police. Tell us a little
Speaker 7: bit about that. First.
Speaker 2: Certainly, it was a double lover's lane murder of a
Speaker 2: couple in a car in Madison, Wisconsin named Timothy Hack
Speaker 2: and Kelly Drew, and it happened on August ninth of
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty and Edwards was actually living in Wisconsin nineteen eighty.
Speaker 2: But in two thousand and nine of March, Edwards had
Speaker 2: a daughter named April who was forty two years old
Speaker 2: at that time and was watching TV about a cold
Speaker 2: case from nineteen eighty in Wisconsin, and she recalled that
Speaker 2: her father had taken her and her brothers to the
Speaker 2: scene of that double murder. So in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: she picks up the phone and she calls the police
Speaker 2: and says, I think you should talk to my dad.
Speaker 2: We were at that scene and he said there were
Speaker 2: bodies there. So the police actually took the evidence from
Speaker 2: the case from nineteen eighty and sent it to the
Speaker 2: lab and they recovered DNA and it matched Edward Wayne Edwards,
Speaker 2: who is seventy six years old in two thousand and nine,
Speaker 2: living down in Louisville, Kentucky with his wife who we
Speaker 2: had been married to for forty three years.
Speaker 7: Now. One of the interesting things about the murder itself was,
Speaker 7: and I've never read this actual term, was the hyoid
Speaker 7: bone was broken. Just tell us briefly because that'll be
Speaker 7: important much later on. I think, as we talk about
Speaker 7: this killer, tell us about this hyoid bone, and if
Speaker 7: there is something unusual about that method of killing somebody
Speaker 7: by breaking that bone.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: The hyoid bone is a small bone in the neck,
Speaker 2: and it's used during autopsies, especially when people are strangled,
Speaker 2: to see the severity of the strangulation or the injury
Speaker 2: to the neck. And it takes a very quick, severe
Speaker 2: hit to break the hyoid bone. And in the case
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty, the victim had a broken hyoid bone.
Speaker 2: And it turns out in many of ed Edwards's cases,
Speaker 2: the victim would have a broken hyoid bone, and that
Speaker 2: what it represented was that he was always able to
Speaker 2: get so close to his victims because of the way
Speaker 2: he was able to groom himself into them so close
Speaker 2: and impersonal that they wouldn't even see it coming when
Speaker 2: the punch occurred. And the punch is it called a
Speaker 2: rabbit punch to the neck, right to the throat, breaks
Speaker 2: the necks, not the neck, but breaks the hyo outbone,
Speaker 2: makes you so you can't breathe, but also makes it
Speaker 2: so you're going to sit there and watch it as
Speaker 2: a terror he's going to inflict on you occurs that way,
Speaker 2: he has complete control, and that proved true through many
Speaker 2: of mister Edwards's murders over this six decades that he
Speaker 2: killed and got away with it is that he had
Speaker 2: groomed his way into the lives of his victims and
Speaker 2: got it so close to him that he was able
Speaker 2: to rabbit punch them out of the blue without them
Speaker 2: even suspecting it was going to happen, and then stage
Speaker 2: the murder.
Speaker 7: Okay, let's go back to before you really, you know,
Speaker 7: understand the magnitude of what you're entering in, what the
Speaker 7: story is, how big it is, and how much it's
Speaker 7: going to have to unravel for you to completely comprehend this.
Speaker 7: And I'm sure you get an inkling right away obviously,
Speaker 7: following your instincts as a cold case detective. When detectives
Speaker 7: go visit him in Louisville, Kentucky, this vicious serial killer
Speaker 7: that no one really realizes is that based on the
Speaker 7: the tip from his daughter and you know, they confirming
Speaker 7: that he was in that area. Well, what does Edward
Speaker 7: Wayne Edwards look like, what's his health like, what's his
Speaker 7: what does he look like at seventy six years old
Speaker 7: when they do go to interview him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they went down June of two thousand and nine
Speaker 2: to interview him in Louisville, Kentucky. He was living in
Speaker 2: a trailer park with his wife of forty three years.
Speaker 2: He was about three hundred pounds. He was just a
Speaker 2: really boltonous looking slog you could say. And he knew
Speaker 2: it was up and he always had waited for that
Speaker 2: knock on the door from the police. But he was
Speaker 2: seventy six years old when it finally came. And when
Speaker 2: it came, here's this guy who's three hundred pounds, who
Speaker 2: looks horrible, And that's the vision everybody got on Wayne
Speaker 2: Edwards was identified as a serial killer. Was this three
Speaker 2: hundred pound man totally out of health? And how could
Speaker 2: he possibly hurt anybody. I mean, that's really what everybody thought.
Speaker 2: But what they didn't know is that this man had
Speaker 2: actually been planning his capture his entire life, but had
Speaker 2: played a game against the criminal just decided to get
Speaker 2: caught by sending puzzles and anonymous letters and phone calls
Speaker 2: to police's whole life, teething them with his identity because
Speaker 2: his real name was never Edward Wayne Edwards.
Speaker 7: Well, before we get into I guess the questioning, because
Speaker 7: really what happens here, I guess what we'll talk about
Speaker 7: is in the result of this questioning of Edward Wayne Edwards,
Speaker 7: despite his appearance, it doesn't look so vicious, and they
Speaker 7: don't know the magnitude of his crimes. They ask him
Speaker 7: for a DNA sample request. What does he do and
Speaker 7: is what happens as a result of the request.
Speaker 2: He actually submitted to the DNA around June ninth of
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine, and on July thirtieth of two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, they got a match on the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty lovers Lane murder in Wisconsin, and it was a
Speaker 2: match of his semen found on the pants of the
Speaker 2: female that them and the female victim had actually been kidnapped,
Speaker 2: tied up risks ankles, hands bound, and stabbed to death
Speaker 2: along with the male victim. And he was arrested and
Speaker 2: he was transported to Wisconsin and was arraigned for the
Speaker 2: double murder and sat in that jail for about a
Speaker 2: year before he went to the press and announced that
Speaker 2: he had killed others.
Speaker 7: In that announcement. What did he proclaim in that announcement
Speaker 7: to the press. Give us the totality of what he
Speaker 7: wanted to express Tell us about that.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: After mister Edwards was captured, he was held in Wisconsin
Speaker 2: for about nine months and during the time he was
Speaker 2: held he was writing letters to police officers all over
Speaker 2: the place trying to get a deal. That's one mo
Speaker 2: O Edwards always had is once he was caught on
Speaker 2: any crime, and he was caught on other crimes but
Speaker 2: not murder, he would always try to work a deal.
Speaker 2: And so he started sending letters to police officers in
Speaker 2: Ohio and Wisconsin telling other murders and that he wanted
Speaker 2: the death penalty and that he was willing to confess
Speaker 2: to other murders to get that. Once he found out
Speaker 2: he couldn't get the death penalty in Wisconsin, he contacted
Speaker 2: the press in Ohio in June of twenty ten and
Speaker 2: announced that he had killed a twenty three year old
Speaker 2: man and beheaded him and collected two hundred and fifty
Speaker 2: thousand dollars worth of insurance. That case got him his
Speaker 2: death penalty, but he had actually confessed to another lover's
Speaker 2: lane murder in nineteen seventy seven in Ohio, trying to
Speaker 2: get the death penalty, but in nineteen seventy seven they
Speaker 2: didn't have the death penalty, so therefore he couldn't so
Speaker 2: in the end, in June of twenty ten, mister Edwards
Speaker 2: confessed to five murders. Four of them were lovers lanes
Speaker 2: parked in their cars and kidnapped and tortured, and one
Speaker 2: was the actual adoption of a twenty two year old
Speaker 2: man waiting two years, killing him for two hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars for insurance and collecting and getting away
Speaker 2: with it in nineteen ninety six, while.
Speaker 7: He's imprisoned in Wisconsin. In that nine months, one fascinating
Speaker 7: thing that of course is the center of this entire
Speaker 7: book that you have, is that the FBI discovers something
Speaker 7: very very unusual about Edward Wayne Edwards, So tell us
Speaker 7: what they do discover the FBI about Edward Wayne Edwards
Speaker 7: in that interim nine months while he's in Wisconsin.
Speaker 2: Sure, mister Edwards had a lot of interesting things in
Speaker 2: his life, but he was really well known as an author,
Speaker 2: a writer. He actually helped produce documentaries, and he was
Speaker 2: a public speaker. Throughout his life. He went around claiming
Speaker 2: that he was a reformed criminal, that back in the forties,
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties he was a real bad robber and
Speaker 2: a burglar, but never a killer. And then in nineteen
Speaker 2: sixty nine, at age thirty six, he came out of
Speaker 2: Leavenworth Prison and wrote a book, and the book was
Speaker 2: four hundred and thirty six pages, and it was titled
Speaker 2: Metamorphosis of a Criminal, The True Life Story of Edwards,
Speaker 2: and that book ended up being a four hundred and
Speaker 2: thirty six page murder puzzle. He actually documented his entire
Speaker 2: life from birth up until nineteen sixty nine when he
Speaker 2: came out of prison claiming to be reformed, and placed
Speaker 2: himself in cities all over the country in the forties,
Speaker 2: fifties and sixties, committing horrible burglaries, robberies, and detailing a
Speaker 2: lot of this in his book, but what he never
Speaker 2: mentioned in the book was that he killed anybody. And
Speaker 2: so in the end, it turned out that his book
Speaker 2: Metamorphosis of a Criminal was a murder puzzle that he
Speaker 2: had written in nineteen sixty nine, and he never got
Speaker 2: identified as a serial killer until two ten.
Speaker 7: Obviously, this man was a masterful con and we will
Speaker 7: explain how he becomes his con and why he becomes
Speaker 7: his con, and we haven't gone into his early life,
Speaker 7: but I'm waiting for the time when you actually discover
Speaker 7: that and how you discover his actual background, you know,
Speaker 7: and from his own family and co workers and people
Speaker 7: that he knew actually knew. But let's talk about his
Speaker 7: confession to police again and what police are doing with
Speaker 7: like how you become involved in terms of he's confessing
Speaker 7: to five murders. But tell us exactly how you get involved,
Speaker 7: how it is that you become alerted to him specifically.
Speaker 2: Certainly in twenty ten, while I was working for the
Speaker 2: Montana Parole Board at the end analyst, I was contacted
Speaker 2: by some police officers and sent a memo about mister
Speaker 2: Edwards because he was back in Ohio. In June of
Speaker 2: twenty ten, he'd confessed to five murders, and there were
Speaker 2: couples that were killed. We knew that he wrote a book,
Speaker 2: and the book contained the name of the city that
Speaker 2: I live in, Great Falls, Montana. Only mister Edwards wrote
Speaker 2: about being in Great Falls, Montana in January of nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six, and he was twenty two years old at
Speaker 2: that time and married to another woman that he'd actually
Speaker 2: married back in nineteen fifty five, so he in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six, he was actually in my hometown. What we
Speaker 2: had here was a horrible murder on January second, nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six, and it was a little sixteen year old
Speaker 2: girl and her eighteen year old boyfriend Airman were parked
Speaker 2: on the banks of the Sun River here in Great Falls,
Speaker 2: making out in their car when they were approached by
Speaker 2: somebody who most likely was dressed like a police officer
Speaker 2: because the way he controlled the scene, and the killer
Speaker 2: ordered the two out of the car, made the girl
Speaker 2: tie up the boy with his belt, put the boy
Speaker 2: on his knees, and executed the boy two shots to
Speaker 2: the head in front of the girl. He then kidnapped
Speaker 2: the girl, took her to the top of what's called
Speaker 2: Mount Royal Road where there's an old Indian burial site,
Speaker 2: and put her on her knees and executed her. And
Speaker 2: this case remained unsolved from nineteen fifty six until twenty ten,
Speaker 2: when I finally confronted Edward Wayne Edwards in prison about it.
Speaker 7: Now, before you get to this confrontation, this book that
Speaker 7: Edwards wrote, first, tell us about before you actually get
Speaker 7: a copy of it. And you're going to tell us,
Speaker 7: tell our audience how how you come to get a
Speaker 7: copy of this very rare book. And before you got
Speaker 7: the book, what did you know about it? And then
Speaker 7: when you want to explain to the audience what happens
Speaker 7: when you first get that book in your hands and
Speaker 7: start reading it.
Speaker 2: Well, when I first got pages from the book, I
Speaker 2: actually got to about thirty pages. Facts to me from
Speaker 2: a reporter in Wisconsin, because I knew that Great Falls
Speaker 2: had been mentioned in the book, and there it was
Speaker 2: that he had been placed in himself in Great Falls,
Speaker 2: robbing people two people during the time of our double murder.
Speaker 2: And so I had a friend here in town who's
Speaker 2: kind of a crime follower, a book reader, and she
Speaker 2: had the book Metamorphosis of a Criminal and it's a
Speaker 2: very rare book behind that were I think there were
Speaker 2: only about three thousand copies made of it. And when
Speaker 2: we started reading the book, we found the evidence that
Speaker 2: Edwards was in great falls and our double murder, and
Speaker 2: evidence of other murders in the book, and the way
Speaker 2: the book is written, it's now clear, you know, after
Speaker 2: all this time of investigating mister Edwards, that this was
Speaker 2: one highly intelligent serial killer. In this book was nothing
Speaker 2: but a puzzle murder of his first thirty years of
Speaker 2: killing and getting away with it.
Speaker 7: You know what's fascinating is the book the book cover
Speaker 7: new show what's an amazing aspect of your book is
Speaker 7: taking actual photos from his metamorphosis of a criminal and
Speaker 7: very much like the cover, just to show people this
Speaker 7: stuff is just amazingly ironic. But on the very cover
Speaker 7: and again he designed this, he wrote this, he got
Speaker 7: this published, he had this published, so he was in
Speaker 7: creative control here. So on the very cover he has
Speaker 7: he was on the FBI's list of the ten most wanted.
Speaker 7: He was a hold up man, a bank robber, a
Speaker 7: dangerous character. He spent fourteen years in five jails. Now
Speaker 7: he is a writer, a respected citizen and the head
Speaker 7: of a family of five, metamorphosis of a criminal. Tell
Speaker 7: us a little bit more because I think it's fascinating too.
Speaker 7: He even made a religious album, inspirational religious album.
Speaker 2: That he released.
Speaker 7: So this guy amazing. And we're talking about a long
Speaker 7: time ago. We're talking fifty years ago, said forty years ago.
Speaker 7: So tell us a little bit more about what you
Speaker 7: found out about his acceptance as this criminal. And like
Speaker 7: I say, some of the tours he was on a
Speaker 7: television program to Call to Tell the Truth, a famous,
Speaker 7: very popular television program. So tell us a little bit
Speaker 7: more about some of the touring he did, the motivational
Speaker 7: speaking he did, which provided him to be able to
Speaker 7: travel throughout the country while he was on parole.
Speaker 2: Sure, And you know when you look at the cover
Speaker 2: of his book, it's really the entire cover was a puzzle.
Speaker 2: What he places there two men on the front cover
Speaker 2: and edwards was two men. On the top left side
Speaker 2: is the killer holding what appears to be a knife
Speaker 2: in hand and ready to attack. And on the bottom
Speaker 2: right side, on the right is the good side is
Speaker 2: the man in the suit wearing the hat with the attache,
Speaker 2: presenting himself as a very highly professional preacher, doctor of
Speaker 2: Psychiatry ci Agent. How Edwards portrayed himself throughout life. He
Speaker 2: was two people. He was married for forty three years
Speaker 2: with five children, and he was a good guy on
Speaker 2: that side, and then he had this horrible killing side,
Speaker 2: and he used his family as the alibi. And so
Speaker 2: when he says that now he is a writer and
Speaker 2: a respected citizen in the head of a family of
Speaker 2: five on the front of his cover, that was a ruse.
Speaker 2: And then he ran around the country portraying himself just
Speaker 2: as that as a reformed criminal, a good writer. But
Speaker 2: in fact what he was doing is showing up in
Speaker 2: their communities, portraying all that, and then killing in their
Speaker 2: hometowns and setting people up. That was his amo. And
Speaker 2: so with the title Metamorphosis of a Criminal.
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Speaker 2: Really meant in the end was metamorphosis of a killer,
Speaker 2: the best serial killer ever. And Edwards was always about
Speaker 2: his count, how many people could he kill? And he
Speaker 2: kept track of him throughout his life, so while he
Speaker 2: was traveling throughout nineteen seventies and eighties, showing up in
Speaker 2: churches and law enforcement academies and lawyers schools and high schools,
Speaker 2: junior high schools, preaching don't get into crime where you
Speaker 2: know it'll lead down a bad path. He was actually
Speaker 2: finding his victims and killing them. And his published publishing
Speaker 2: of his books and his religious motivational albums were really
Speaker 2: a sign that mister Edwards was a Satanist. He basically
Speaker 2: took everything from the Catholics and turned it into Satanism
Speaker 2: because he was so abused at the age of seven
Speaker 2: in a Catholic orphanage that he just set out to
Speaker 2: become the best killer ever. And that's what the title
Speaker 2: of his book meant, metamorphosis of a criminal.
Speaker 7: In this autobiographical book, as he claims, he talks about
Speaker 7: his early life. So you just alluded to it. Let's
Speaker 7: talk about his very early life and how he ended
Speaker 7: up in an Catholic orphanage and then his treatment according
Speaker 7: to him therein.
Speaker 2: Yes, mister Edwards was born in nineteen thirty three and
Speaker 2: he was given the name Charles Edward Myers, and in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight, at the age of five, he found
Speaker 2: out that the mother and father that he was living
Speaker 2: with that he thought with his mother and father, were
Speaker 2: actually his aunt and uncle, and that his real mother
Speaker 2: was in prison and was about to be released in
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty eight, and that his real father nobody knew
Speaker 2: and his father never cared for him. So when he
Speaker 2: was five years old, he finds out that his parents
Speaker 2: that he thought were his parents up to that point
Speaker 2: are no longer his parents. He's handed back to mother,
Speaker 2: who has just come out of prison for theft, and
Speaker 2: within eight months of her coming out, she dies of
Speaker 2: a gunshot wound to her stomach, but lives for six
Speaker 2: days from August second on nineteen thirty eight until August
Speaker 2: eighth of nineteen thirty eight, and after she is dead
Speaker 2: and buried, they change his name from Charles Edward Myers
Speaker 2: to Edward Wayne Edwards, stick him in a Catholic orphanage
Speaker 2: in Parmadale, Ohio. And he's very little, and he's very young,
Speaker 2: and he's a bedwidder, and he's beaten by the kids,
Speaker 2: by the nuns, and then eventually sexually assaulted, and by
Speaker 2: age eleven, escapes the orphanage in nineteen forty five and
Speaker 2: starts killing people and does it until his capture in
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine.
Speaker 7: It was interesting you have in the book. You had
Speaker 7: access to the nun inquiring what a little Charles wanted
Speaker 7: to be or Wayne Edwards wanted to be. When he
Speaker 7: grew up and what was his.
Speaker 2: Response, The best criminal ever is what he wanted to be,
Speaker 2: and that was that age eleven. But you know, people
Speaker 2: see that the best criminal ever Edwards is every serial
Speaker 2: killer you can imagine tied up in one because he's
Speaker 2: not addicted to the sexual side of most serial killers.
Speaker 2: He is addicted to the kill and the setup of
Speaker 2: an innocent person. And he's also a criminal, which means
Speaker 2: he was a bank robber, a forger, fraud artist, burglar,
Speaker 2: every type of crime you can imagine. He had acede
Speaker 2: and when he was actually in Great Falls in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six where he killed a couple here, he was
Speaker 2: burglarizing this town the whole time he was here, stealing everything.
Speaker 2: So not only was he a serial killer, but he
Speaker 2: was a criminal and highly intelligent with a very high IQ.
Speaker 2: So his whole goal was just to kill people, make
Speaker 2: sure it was someone close to like a family member,
Speaker 2: that would defall for the crime, and over and over
Speaker 2: again he set people up throughout the forties, fifties, sixties, seventies, eighties, nineties,
Speaker 2: and then in the two thousands he actually became the
Speaker 2: best at it. The last nine years of his life
Speaker 2: he had some of the best setups he'd ever done.
Speaker 7: Again, we've got to go backwards because now we have
Speaker 7: to find out how it came that you corresponded with
Speaker 7: Edward Wayne Edwards, and tell us about also about the
Speaker 7: meeting and the matchup with a fellow detective Neil And
Speaker 7: tell us how that meeting came to be and how
Speaker 7: you joined forces, and what was the plan on how
Speaker 7: to contact Wayne Edwards. Tell us about that hole effort.
Speaker 2: Well. Being a former cold case detective, I had that
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty sixth murder that I was aware of that
Speaker 2: happened in Great Fall, and knew that I had never
Speaker 2: been unsolved or never been solved, and so I just
Speaker 2: decided that I would write mister Edwards a letter and
Speaker 2: ask him if he would just confess to it. And
Speaker 2: this was about six weeks into me actually finding out
Speaker 2: who he was. I had really researched him and got
Speaker 2: his book and got all of his records and interviewed
Speaker 2: some of his family and stuff, and I wanted to
Speaker 2: just see if he would be willing to say, yes,
Speaker 2: I did it, you know, confess and be done with it,
Speaker 2: since he was going to be executed anyway in Ohio.
Speaker 2: And I didn't get a response back. And I had
Speaker 2: a friend named Neil, who's about fifty five years old,
Speaker 2: highly intelligent, had studied Chinese and Greek, and had studied
Speaker 2: the Book of the Dead, had studied Satanism but in
Speaker 2: a good way, and just was a real puzzle solver.
Speaker 2: And early on in the investigation, after tying mister Edwards
Speaker 2: to the nineteen fifty six murder and realizing that he
Speaker 2: confessed to one in nineteen seventy seven, one in nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty and one in nineteen ninety six, I knew that
Speaker 2: he had been killing since at least nineteen fifty six,
Speaker 2: all the way up until his capture, and his MOO
Speaker 2: matched that of what was known as the Zodiac Killer,
Speaker 2: a killer who terrorized San Francisco nineteen sixty eight to
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy and sent anonymous letters and was a writer
Speaker 2: and killed couples on Lover's Lanes. I suspected that Edwards
Speaker 2: could have been the Zodiac Killer because he was released
Speaker 2: from Levenworth Prison just before it started, and he matched
Speaker 2: the composite. So I contacted my friend Neil and showed
Speaker 2: him what is known as the Zodiac Killer's identity cipher,
Speaker 2: which was actually a puzzle of thirteen characters sent April twentieth,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy, and the Zodiac said that when that puzzle
Speaker 2: was sold, it would name his name, and Neil, having
Speaker 2: the highly intelligent prane, was able to crack it and
Speaker 2: it actually named Edward DA which is thirteen characters, the
Speaker 2: same noun of characters as the Zodiac Killer cipher. And
Speaker 2: so we confronted Edwards in a letter as being the
Speaker 2: Zodiac Killer after we saw that cryptogram, and that began
Speaker 2: our relationship with mister Edwards.
Speaker 7: So that he responded in that he got a lot
Speaker 7: of correspondence, but he was intrigued, wasn't he? So you really,
Speaker 7: you and Neil really had cracked this in terms of
Speaker 7: understanding what he had first expressed in his book Metamorphosis
Speaker 7: of a Criminal, and then that tie in through the book,
Speaker 7: through the Egyptian history and science fiction, that Book of
Speaker 7: the Dead, so you guys put it all together. He
Speaker 7: was impressed with that that you came to that conclusion,
Speaker 7: wasn't he.
Speaker 2: Well, that was his whole goal through life, was that
Speaker 2: somebody identify him, and that's why in the Zodiac case
Speaker 2: he sent so many puzzles that actually can pained his identity.
Speaker 2: And once we cracked that puzzle, he actually was thrilled.
Speaker 2: And I'll just read a little passage which is very interesting,
Speaker 2: one of the first letters, and it says, dear John
Speaker 2: and Neil, and this is after we confronted him about
Speaker 2: being the Zodiac killer and that we cracked the Zodiac
Speaker 2: cipher's And here's what he said, Dear John and Neil,
Speaker 2: it's me. You say you won the Zodiac game. I
Speaker 2: remember a guy in Deer Lodge back in fifty six
Speaker 2: they called the Zodiac he killed a guy in Great Falls.
Speaker 2: I maybe seventy seven, but I don't forget things. Good
Speaker 2: luck with your Zodiac game. If you write about me,
Speaker 2: make sure you say nice things. Your friend ed Edwards DS,
Speaker 2: I love you too. We had actually forgiven mister Edwards
Speaker 2: in a letter when we confronted him, because we knew
Speaker 2: he was Catholic, and we knew that he was destroyed
Speaker 2: in a Catholic church, and we knew that that's the
Speaker 2: biggest thing is Catholics has forgiveness, and he was really
Speaker 2: actually looking for that. He was looking for those puzzles
Speaker 2: to be solved and for somebody to relate to what
Speaker 2: he was actually up to, and that really began a
Speaker 2: horrible nine months of confronting mister Edwards and exchanging letters
Speaker 2: and phone calls and just the division that created between everybody,
Speaker 2: law enforcement agencies everywhere. And it was pretty horrible time,
Speaker 2: but it was well worth doing.
Speaker 7: Yes, you chronicle the resistance to the evidence that you
Speaker 7: had uncovered, and so even the FBI. You talk about
Speaker 7: the FBI. Initially you had a sort of seemed like
Speaker 7: a meaningful conversation and then it was a freeze out.
Speaker 7: So tell us about the response from officials wherever you contact.
Speaker 7: Tell us about who you might have contacted, who he
Speaker 7: did contact, and their response to this new evidence as
Speaker 7: you describe it.
Speaker 2: Well, at first they were skeptical. Mister Edwards basically was
Speaker 2: back in Ohio you confessed to the murders. They put
Speaker 2: out memos to all the agencies in the country asking
Speaker 2: if they had unsolved murders, and other agencies all over
Speaker 2: were investigating him. But what they didn't understand was who
Speaker 2: he really was and what he was up to. Edwards
Speaker 2: was always a game player with the justice system, and
Speaker 2: while he sat in prison those last two years, writing
Speaker 2: letters to authorities. Every one of those letters was a
Speaker 2: puzzle that he followed as to what he had really done,
Speaker 2: and he was looking for people to challenge him. And
Speaker 2: I tried to explain this to the FBI, to the
Speaker 2: local police, the sheriff agencies that had murders, but nobody
Speaker 2: really wanted to hear it because in most cases where
Speaker 2: Edwards killed somebody, somebody else went down for the crime.
Speaker 2: That is how he worked. And once a man is
Speaker 2: convicted of a crime and he's innocent, he's stuck and
Speaker 2: the system shuts down. And I couldn't understand why there
Speaker 2: were such resistance to mister Edwards at the beginning, but
Speaker 2: I found out as the investigation went on that he
Speaker 2: been an FBI informant in nineteen fifty and never stopped
Speaker 2: all the way up until his capture. But unfortunately, what
Speaker 2: he was doing was informing on his own murders that
Speaker 2: he had already designed to steer the evidence to some
Speaker 2: of the innocent and set up. And so he became
Speaker 2: an informant, released out of prison throughout his life for
Speaker 2: informing on his own murders, and the system shut down
Speaker 2: in twenty ten when he got identified and hoped it
Speaker 2: went away.
Speaker 7: His daughter did say that his father was adamant about
Speaker 7: having relationships with police, and there was times when he
Speaker 7: was questioned by police and then they would take off
Speaker 7: in the middle of the night from the area. But
Speaker 7: there was also he had relationships with, he said, a
Speaker 7: captain of a police force. I mean, he really went
Speaker 7: out of his way to have relationships with police officials,
Speaker 7: didn't he.
Speaker 2: That's actually what his wife told me that when where
Speaker 2: they moved, they moved everywhere. They lived everywhere in the
Speaker 2: United States, and from nineteen sixty eight until his capture,
Speaker 2: he would immediately go to the police departments and make
Speaker 2: friends with him. But his name wasn't Edward Edwards when
Speaker 2: he did that, and their names weren't the Edwards family either.
Speaker 2: He had them under assumed identity wherever he was. But
Speaker 2: he always demanded to be called Wayne, no matter what
Speaker 2: his last name was going to be, you know, with
Speaker 2: his identities, he was always wanting to be called Wayne
Speaker 2: because that way he could remember exactly who he is
Speaker 2: and what he's doing. But yes, I have pictures of
Speaker 2: him in nineteen seventy nine with the captain of the
Speaker 2: Atlanta Police Department arm around him, saying it's his best friend. Well,
Speaker 2: Edwards was actually in that city killing children in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy nine, and when he got caught there for arson
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty two, he had a police uniform that
Speaker 2: he had been using, and it turns out that is
Speaker 2: his ruse. He would make friends with the police, obtain
Speaker 2: their uniforms, impersonate them, and kill in their communities, and
Speaker 2: then steer the evidence to whoever he decided to steer
Speaker 2: it to, and then screw with the police by sending
Speaker 2: letters that would either taunt them or steer the evidence
Speaker 2: more towards them, any ones to set up, and just
Speaker 2: over and over again in cities throughout the United States.
Speaker 2: He set people up and got some executed and some
Speaker 2: are serving. There's quite a few servings still right now.
Speaker 7: How is it that you, well, what do you actually
Speaker 7: get from you say, nine months of correspondence and you're
Speaker 7: pushing for more information. Give us the gist of what
Speaker 7: you actually got from Edward Wayne Edwards in terms of
Speaker 7: evidence of other murders.
Speaker 2: Time he was from the time I confined him in
Speaker 2: June of twenty ten until he died April seventh, twenty eleven.
Speaker 2: Neil and I we were writing him back and forth
Speaker 2: by letter, trying to get him just to confess to
Speaker 2: being the Zodia Killer. But as it went on, we
Speaker 2: tied him to other famous killings, because that really was
Speaker 2: his m O and the most famous one that we
Speaker 2: tied him to right away, besides you know the killing
Speaker 2: in Great Falls in fifty six and the possibility that
Speaker 2: he's a Zodiac killer, but the Joemen A. Ramsey case
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six in Boulder, Colorado. We confronted Edwards
Speaker 2: about that also because the way that Joemen A. Ramsey
Speaker 2: note was signed, it was signed Victory SBTC, and what
Speaker 2: it ended up meaning in the end was victory, which
Speaker 2: is a Christian phrase taken to the dark side by
Speaker 2: Edwards and SDTC stood fort signed by the cross. The
Speaker 2: Zodiac Killer was always famous for signing his letters with
Speaker 2: the cross and circle. And what the cross and circle
Speaker 2: is is actually the zodiac which goes back into ancient
Speaker 2: Egyptian history and time where there were very evils such
Speaker 2: as Osiris and Isis and Herod and just these evil
Speaker 2: satanic cold gods, I guess you'd call it. In those
Speaker 2: thousands of years ago days, Edwards wanted to be known
Speaker 2: as the best killer ever, and he wanted to be
Speaker 2: known as a godlike image when it was revealed. Because
Speaker 2: he went on for so long and tied it all
Speaker 2: to either Christianity or Judaism or Islam. That's how we worked.
Speaker 2: He terrorized religion because he knew that people would divide
Speaker 2: that way, and he just let us down a path
Speaker 2: for sixty years of killing, setting people up, and watching
Speaker 2: us as the system killed.
Speaker 7: What were the we're going to talk about. We're going
Speaker 7: to have the ability to talk about all some of
Speaker 7: these or not all of these famous crimes that he
Speaker 7: was tied to, and why you did the due diligence,
Speaker 7: You did the dog active work. Of course you place
Speaker 7: them there, not he could have been there that he
Speaker 7: was definitely there. So and then the m's match. But
Speaker 7: what are the commonalities that you're already seeing in these murders,
Speaker 7: Because what I didn't realize was the extent of some
Speaker 7: of the contact with authorities after these murders, the media
Speaker 7: or end or family. So tell us what you're already
Speaker 7: seeing in terms of Edward Wayne Edwards, m O or
Speaker 7: end or signature. The commonalities already that you're seeing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, since the release of the book. It's really been amazing.
Speaker 2: People read the book and then they kind of see
Speaker 2: the mo also, well, them is fairly simple once you
Speaker 2: see it, when you're looking at a murder that is
Speaker 2: all over the headlines. And let's just let's just say
Speaker 2: in the nineties when the cable news networks were really
Speaker 2: big on murder cases, when you when you had a
Speaker 2: case where number one it was somebody killed on a
Speaker 2: hall such as Christmas, Easter, Thanksgiving, fourth of July. Edwards
Speaker 2: was a ritualistic killer, killing over and over and over
Speaker 2: again on Christian holidays and the twelve days of Christmas
Speaker 2: between the twenty fifth and the sixth of January, because
Speaker 2: she's a Satanist, and he would steer the letters and
Speaker 2: the evidence after somebody else was arrested to look for
Speaker 2: a Satanist. In most organizations that got letters from Edwards
Speaker 2: probably blew them off as a nut. But many of
Speaker 2: his letters contained actually his identity. They were always signed
Speaker 2: anonymously or signed with Portrade but written by a female.
Speaker 2: But inside the letters were always clues as to the
Speaker 2: true identity of who the real killer was. And that's
Speaker 2: why my letters and Neil's letters to Edwards became so
Speaker 2: important because he was communicating with us in prison, and
Speaker 2: he knew they were reading everything he was sending, and
Speaker 2: they were reading everything we were sending, and it was
Speaker 2: game of code. And that's what they do in prisons,
Speaker 2: is they write in code always. That way their letters
Speaker 2: get through. But he had given hints and clues as
Speaker 2: to the letters to look for in some of the
Speaker 2: biggest cases that we attached to him, and in those
Speaker 2: cases we recovered the letters and there was the identity
Speaker 2: inside of them. And in the end, as Edwards became
Speaker 2: very good in the two thousands, he was a blogger
Speaker 2: and a website owner, and he was actually just challenged,
Speaker 2: challenging everybody throughout the late nineties and all the way
Speaker 2: up until his death to identify him on some of
Speaker 2: the most famous murder sites out there, because he was
Speaker 2: actually responsible and he loved to go in there and
Speaker 2: just mess with people and see if they'd figure out
Speaker 2: who he is.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit more about just to really
Speaker 7: demonstrate this, because I think that you have included in
Speaker 7: your books some things that are not so common knowledgeable
Speaker 7: the John Benney case itself, now that it seems to
Speaker 7: be I guess accepted that the mother that a lot
Speaker 7: of people thought had something to do with or the
Speaker 7: father that they had nothing to do with this murder.
Speaker 7: Tell us how you uncovered that Edwards was involved in
Speaker 7: the John Benney, tell us the clues he gave you,
Speaker 7: and tell us how you confirmed it. You guys are
Speaker 7: doing you and Neil are doing handwriting analysis again. He's
Speaker 7: breaking code, comparing the book and to the zodiac and
Speaker 7: those letters. So tell us about that.
Speaker 2: Well. Joemen A Ramsey, who was killed in nineteen ninety
Speaker 2: six on Christmas, was actually Edward's fiftieth year of killing.
Speaker 2: His first killing was nineteen forty six January sixth in Chicago,
Speaker 2: and that killing ended up being a little six year
Speaker 2: old girl just like joemen A Ramsey, who was sleeping
Speaker 2: in her house with her parents, just like joe Manae Ramsey,
Speaker 2: who was lured out of her house, actually came with
Speaker 2: her killer out of the house into a basement. Dismembered
Speaker 2: spread around the streets of Chicago. And then Edwards taunted
Speaker 2: the press with letters and phone calls, and they were
Speaker 2: very immatureish. They said things like please stop me, I
Speaker 2: can't control myself. I'm going to kill more and he
Speaker 2: was thirteen years old when he did it, and that's
Speaker 2: he actually had started killing when he was eleven, and
Speaker 2: that would be his amo is to kill on a
Speaker 2: holiday ritualistically. So when we tied him to the Jemeny
Speaker 2: Ramsey case in nineteen ninety six, it started to unravel
Speaker 2: that he actually put up websites to his killings that
Speaker 2: he had done in forty six from forty seven and
Speaker 2: the one famous website that everybody should go to if
Speaker 2: they want to read the true story of Ed Edwards
Speaker 2: and his first three murders. It's called black Dalias solution
Speaker 2: dot org and that is the website he put up
Speaker 2: in two thousand and two, just before Christmas, the two
Speaker 2: thousand and two and that website was the solution to
Speaker 2: identify the real Zodiac killer and how long he'd been killing.
Speaker 2: So the evidence came about. I've been working on it
Speaker 2: for five years. I published the book about eight months ago,
Speaker 2: and since the release of the book, all the people
Speaker 2: that are out there finding the cases just have to
Speaker 2: look for the person screening. I didn't do it. The
Speaker 2: press frenzy on the case, the ritualistic nature of the
Speaker 2: case itself. Are they laid out? Are they staged. Are
Speaker 2: they missing limbs? Are they beheaded? Edwards beheaded people his
Speaker 2: whole life, which was a signature Satanic thing, and rounding
Speaker 2: them and laying them out of water. He did everything
Speaker 2: based on ancient Egyptian Satanism. I guess I would call
Speaker 2: it the Book of the Dead. Aleister Crowley back in
Speaker 2: the nineteenth century who wrote the Book of the Dead,
Speaker 2: or had to study the Book of the Dead and
Speaker 2: wrote his own three part book about bringing out a
Speaker 2: change of you know, murder and mayhem. Edwards studied that
Speaker 2: throughout his adolescent years and actually did it and continues
Speaker 2: to do it even though he's dead, because there's people
Speaker 2: sitting on death row right now that will be executed
Speaker 2: for his murders, and he will be sitting up in
Speaker 2: his afterlife laughing at the system.
Speaker 7: Tell Us about you talked about the nine months of
Speaker 7: correspondence with him, and I wanted to get all of
Speaker 7: the you know, the murders that you could confirm in
Speaker 7: that period of time, because then you go on to
Speaker 7: research after that. So tell us about Edwards's death is
Speaker 7: demise and how that changes the course of your investigation.
Speaker 2: Certainly we had connected him, of course to the early
Speaker 2: fifty sixth murder, and then we connected to Joe Maney
Speaker 2: in ninety six. But there's a fifty year period of
Speaker 2: what did you do in between? You know, I had
Speaker 2: no idea the extent of where it was going to go.
Speaker 2: I thought it was bad enough that he was the
Speaker 2: Zodiac Killer, that he killed Joe Manet, and that he
Speaker 2: had been killing since nineteen forty six. I just didn't
Speaker 2: understand the magnitude of it. And his letters kept telling
Speaker 2: us that that we didn't know the whole story, because
Speaker 2: we were kind of cocky with him, telling him we
Speaker 2: got ya, you know, and he was basically telling us, oh, no,
Speaker 2: you don't. You don't know the whole story. And so
Speaker 2: he was in prison up until April seventh and twenty eleven,
Speaker 2: and I was actually going to go interview him about
Speaker 2: April eleventh, but he died naturally in prison at the
Speaker 2: age of seventy seven years old and had hard ailments diabetes.
Speaker 2: But he had actually always when he got caught, attempted
Speaker 2: to kill himself in some way. I always wonder if, if,
Speaker 2: in fact, he he helped himself along. He had actually
Speaker 2: asked us to send him this candy that he should
Speaker 2: have never had, but we sent him one hundred dollars
Speaker 2: worth of candy that he wanted and he was a
Speaker 2: diabetic and he got it and he did die shortly
Speaker 2: after that. But I don't know if that played any
Speaker 2: part in it at all, But it was very strange
Speaker 2: when we were exchanging these letters with him about this
Speaker 2: candy issue and why did he want that so badly?
Speaker 2: So it was the whole letters was just a big
Speaker 2: game between him and society, and it was the same
Speaker 2: between Neil and I and him. It was figure me out.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 2: He was never going to give it up and say
Speaker 2: who he was at the end. And I was naive
Speaker 2: to think that if I was even going to get
Speaker 2: to sit down with him, that he was even going
Speaker 2: to tell me anything truthful. What he would have done
Speaker 2: is just given me clues to follow, because that's really
Speaker 2: what it was all about, is he wants it to
Speaker 2: go on forever, and since the release of the book,
Speaker 2: it's just unbelievable what he's done. He announced his count
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six on a blog was between nineteen
Speaker 2: forty six and nineteen ninety six, he killed five hundred
Speaker 2: people in every part of the country Canada, Mexico and
Speaker 2: got away with it, and he didn't get caught till
Speaker 2: two thousand and nine. So it's unknown how manymore there are,
Speaker 2: but I've found two hundred and about forty now and
Speaker 2: you can see a lot of that on my website,
Speaker 2: Coldcasecameron dot com.
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Speaker 7: speaking about this incredible claim of five hundred murders in
Speaker 7: a sixty six year period of time of killing the book.
Speaker 7: Once Edwards was dead, you continued to look at this book,
Speaker 7: and then you went online, like you say, and tried
Speaker 7: to find out what his presence was online. So tell
Speaker 7: us a little bit more about the investigation once he's dead,
Speaker 7: and how you are continuing to find other murders that
Speaker 7: you can attribute to Edward. Wayne Edwards positively sure.
Speaker 2: When he died April seven, twenty eleven. I really thought
Speaker 2: that this would be kind of the end of it,
Speaker 2: and we would write a book about what he had
Speaker 2: done and that would be it. Well, what actually happened
Speaker 2: was I took his book, Metamorphosis of a Criminal, and
Speaker 2: I took a copy of it, and I ripped it
Speaker 2: apart and I scanned it into a PDF file that
Speaker 2: was searchable Edward's And because he's a writer, that means,
Speaker 2: you know, you can catch similarities in his writings. So
Speaker 2: I was wondering, if he's a writer and he's killing,
Speaker 2: is he blogging once the computer age came along, because
Speaker 2: the big years for him were nineteen forty six to
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six, and that's fifty years of killing, five
Speaker 2: hundred killed, and he announces that on Google Blogs on
Speaker 2: January eighth, nineteen ninety seven, that he killed five hundred people.
Speaker 2: So I took his book and started searching phrases and
Speaker 2: that's when I found the phrases in his book on
Speaker 2: the Black Dalia Solution dot org website, and that began
Speaker 2: to unravel really what mister Edwards said done, because now
Speaker 2: I had a website where he actually gives the details
Speaker 2: of how he did all these killings many years and
Speaker 2: how you break the codes down. And it turned out
Speaker 2: everything he said on that website was exactly what Neil
Speaker 2: had already used eight months earlier, and we were right.
Speaker 2: And so then it began a process of starting from
Speaker 2: nineteen forty five and just doing a timeline of his
Speaker 2: life all the way up until his capture. And that's
Speaker 2: really what you do in a homicide investigation in any case.
Speaker 2: You take your victim, to take your suspect, and you
Speaker 2: do a timeline of their life. Well, mister Edwards had
Speaker 2: so many victims and so then had set up so
Speaker 2: many suspects that the timeline took three years to do,
Speaker 2: and the investigation never stops even to this day after
Speaker 2: the publication of the book last year. There's so many
Speaker 2: other murders to talk about that are out there, but
Speaker 2: it'll never end. And that's really what he wants wanted
Speaker 2: it to do. He knew it would be revealed, and
Speaker 2: in the end he began blogging that it would be
Speaker 2: almost three hundred years he thought before someone figured it out.
Speaker 2: But we were very fortunate to have, you know, I
Speaker 2: worked in Deer Lodge Prison. The Zodiac Killer had actually
Speaker 2: mentioned to one of his victims that he had been
Speaker 2: in Deer Lodge Prison and I was just in the
Speaker 2: right position at the right time in twenty ten with
Speaker 2: the right serial killer dropped in my lap and the
Speaker 2: right lover's lane murder in nineteen fifty six to kind
Speaker 2: of unravel the puzzle. And I was hoping the book
Speaker 2: would be the end of the puzzle, that I knew
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be. I knew that when it was released
Speaker 2: that it would just open the floodgates, and it has
Speaker 2: and it's been fun, but it's also just raining seeing
Speaker 2: the system still play out to his false leads. And
Speaker 2: that's what the Zodiac Killer was always about, was the
Speaker 2: false leads, making fun of the police, teasing them with
Speaker 2: his identity, saying Haha, I'm smarter than you. And that's
Speaker 2: what Edwards was.
Speaker 7: Tell us a little bit about another very controversial case,
Speaker 7: as people know America's most Wanted after what was created
Speaker 7: with John Walsh after his son Adam was murdered in
Speaker 7: a This will also explain part of Edward Wayne Edwards's
Speaker 7: particular mo in a kidnap ransom note but no real
Speaker 7: interest in gaining a ransom or returning the kidnap victim,
Speaker 7: so tell us about a little bit about that Adam
Speaker 7: Walsh kids shipping most people.
Speaker 2: Most people know the John Walsh of America's Most Wanted.
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty one, his son Adam, who was actually
Speaker 2: a blonde haired six year old boy Joe Bne Ramsey
Speaker 2: was a blonde haired six year old girl. Well, Adam
Speaker 2: was kidnapped from a store and his head was found
Speaker 2: floating in a canal a few weeks later in August,
Speaker 2: actually right around the time that Ed's always killed. Edward's
Speaker 2: always killed, between the day his mother was shot the
Speaker 2: day his mother was buried August second to August tenth.
Speaker 2: Adam Walsh's head was found on August tenth, nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: floating in a canal, and they never did figure out
Speaker 2: who did it. A serial killer named August Toole actually
Speaker 2: confessed and then recanted, but in the end, the Zodiac
Speaker 2: Killer actually sent John Walsh letters in nineteen ninety one,
Speaker 2: and the public didn't know any of this until two
Speaker 2: thousand and six, when John Walsh finally went public and
Speaker 2: actually published what are called the Scorpion Letters. Those letters
Speaker 2: were actually sent by Edwards, the Zodiac Killer, and it
Speaker 2: turned out that nineteen eighty one, Edwards was living in
Speaker 2: Florida and traveling to Atlanta where he was killing children
Speaker 2: and dressing up as a policeman, and he had killed
Speaker 2: twenty four little children nineteen seventy nine eighty eighty one
Speaker 2: in Atlanta, he trialed to Florida and killed Adam All
Speaker 2: actually in the backyard of one of his ex wives
Speaker 2: and girl named Marlene, who he was married to in
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty nine. Edwards liked to go to the towns
Speaker 2: where he had relatives or an ex wife or someone
Speaker 2: he knew and create terror, and the Adam Walsh case
Speaker 2: created terror, started the program America's Most Wanted, and Edwards
Speaker 2: taunted John Walsh his whole life with false letters because
Speaker 2: Edwards was America's Most Wanted. And John Walsh did many,
Speaker 2: many stories on Edwards's murders, but they were always placed
Speaker 2: on somebody else, because that's really the design of Edwards's murders,
Speaker 2: the setup. So the John Walsh Adam Walsh case didn't
Speaker 2: even come into the picture until after Edwards had died,
Speaker 2: and we found the Scorpion letters and then found Edwards
Speaker 2: down in Atlanta at the time, an in Florida, and
Speaker 2: it just really unraveled. What he did is he just
Speaker 2: killed every type of victim there is, whether it be
Speaker 2: a boy or an infant, a six year old, a
Speaker 2: twenty year old, a forty year old, it never mattered.
Speaker 2: What mattered was to do it ritualistically, create terror and
Speaker 2: set somebody up.
Speaker 7: What was the importance of lipstick and how common was
Speaker 7: it and how many murders was it dealt with? And
Speaker 7: then you can explain the famous lipstick murderer case and
Speaker 7: this tie in.
Speaker 2: It well certainly. Actually one of his Edwards's last murders
Speaker 2: was June fourteenth, two thousand and eight, on Fort Bragg,
Speaker 2: and in that murder, he basically drowned a pregnant female
Speaker 2: in a tub and he wrote on lipstick with the
Speaker 2: Zodiac sign. And in that case, a man named Edgar Patino,
Speaker 2: who was the boyfriend of the drowned girl, actually pled
Speaker 2: guilty to that crime to avoid getting the death penalty
Speaker 2: in twenty ten, and case was ended up being one
Speaker 2: of Edwards's last setups. And I confronted Edgar Patino as
Speaker 2: to why would you plead guilty to a murder you
Speaker 2: didn't do? And he sent me a letter and actually
Speaker 2: the reason that he pled guilty is because he knew
Speaker 2: that they were going to kill him, they were going
Speaker 2: to eat They were offering him a deal or the
Speaker 2: death penalty. And it's amazing the thought process of that.
Speaker 2: When you have the death penalty hanging over your head.
Speaker 2: Most people think, there's no way I would confess to
Speaker 2: doing something I didn't do. But when you have the
Speaker 2: death penalty hanging over your head, the standard answer I
Speaker 2: got from every one of these guys in prison on
Speaker 2: Edwards's murder was how am I going to prove I'm
Speaker 2: innocent if I'm dead?
Speaker 7: Now. The other part of this is the you have
Speaker 7: to do the searches to make sure that he was
Speaker 7: actually in these places at that time. And again some
Speaker 7: people might say, this is too unbelievable that he's happens
Speaker 7: to be everywhere in these most famous murders, But yet
Speaker 7: no one has put it together at all until you
Speaker 7: guys came together, and with great difficulty, you guys put
Speaker 7: this together. So the idea with all these these murders
Speaker 7: that you were tying in there, tell us what again,
Speaker 7: what that commonality is between all of these murders that
Speaker 7: you are unequivocal that this is a proof that they're
Speaker 7: all done by Edward Wayne Edwards.
Speaker 2: The biggest commonality in his murders was he tied them
Speaker 2: to his book, Metamorphosis of a Criminal. So you have
Speaker 2: to understand when he wrote that book, he had been
Speaker 2: killing from nineteen forty five until he published the book
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy two. But in the book, he actually
Speaker 2: created a timeline of where he was, when he was,
Speaker 2: what state, what city, and what he did. After publishing
Speaker 2: the book, was went around creating the exact same murders
Speaker 2: he had done from forty five to seventy two and
Speaker 2: tying him to the book. That way the mo once
Speaker 2: discovered is you just have to read my book and
Speaker 2: look at my criminal records and you'll see I was there.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly how it played out. I have his
Speaker 2: criminal records on my website and they go all the
Speaker 2: way back to nineteen forty nine and they go all
Speaker 2: the way up to his death. And it's amazing where
Speaker 2: this man was. He was in every major city of
Speaker 2: the US, and he had FBI files on him in
Speaker 2: at least half of the states where he had been
Speaker 2: either caught for robbery or burglary and was informing so
Speaker 2: the information actually always came from Edwards. It was always
Speaker 2: out there, and when the information on the murders wasn't
Speaker 2: out there, he did it by anonymous letters to either
Speaker 2: the editors of the papers, the police departments that had
Speaker 2: the murders, or to the victims' families. And in the
Speaker 2: Joeman A. Ramsey case, in the end, I received a
Speaker 2: call from Patsy Ramsey's family here just recently and they
Speaker 2: got the book. They saw an article about me in
Speaker 2: the Globe and read the article and they were just
Speaker 2: astounded and are actually quite upset that the press hasn't
Speaker 2: said any that family was destroyed basically by the killer himself.
Speaker 2: And in the end, Edwards taunted Patsy Ramsey through anonymous
Speaker 2: bloggings from two thousand and two until two thousand and six,
Speaker 2: until she died, actually giving her the details of how
Speaker 2: he did it under assumed name. And it's been very horrible.
Speaker 2: They you know, I knew they had killed Joe Beaney,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know the details of what he had
Speaker 2: done and what he had done to them, And after
Speaker 2: speaking with them, it's just horrible. They were actually from Atlanta,
Speaker 2: and Atlanta was very important to Edwards. That's where it
Speaker 2: all started. And he targeted the Ramseys, probably twenty years advance,
Speaker 2: to kill their firstborn later on in life. That's how
Speaker 2: he worked. He would groom his way into somebody in
Speaker 2: the military and take their first burned son or daughter,
Speaker 2: or set up a husband for cheating on his wife.
Speaker 2: He picked his victims. He didn't just drive around kidnapping people.
Speaker 2: He knew who he was going to kill and how
Speaker 2: the setup was going to go along in advance of
Speaker 2: doing it.
Speaker 7: You gained a lot of really incredible information from his
Speaker 7: wife who is married to for forty three years, and
Speaker 7: very much some of the wives that are wives of
Speaker 7: serial killers, they claim and have been proven to be
Speaker 7: unbeknownst to them what their evil deeds that their husband
Speaker 7: was doing for all those years. Tell us what you
Speaker 7: did get. What the most profound information that you gleamed
Speaker 7: from speaking with his wife Kate.
Speaker 2: Well, prior to his wife Kay, there was actually be
Speaker 2: a wife named Jeannette, And the most profound egent on
Speaker 2: the entire case came from Jeannette, and she was with
Speaker 2: him in nineteen fifty five fifty six, And the importance
Speaker 2: of that is she was a seventeen year old Mormon
Speaker 2: girl living in Idaho Falls in nineteen fifty five when
Speaker 2: Edwards showed up under an assumed name with a pregnant
Speaker 2: girlfriend and basically killed his pregnant girlfriend, kidnapped Jeannette White
Speaker 2: after convincing her to go with, raped her, and forced
Speaker 2: her to drive around the country for six months while
Speaker 2: he participated in some horrible murders in Chicago, Montana, California, Omaha, Nebraska,
Speaker 2: in Florida, and she was the driver. And the ruse
Speaker 2: was they would portray themselves as a happily married family
Speaker 2: man with a pregnant wife, and he'd have a military
Speaker 2: uniform or a cop uniform, or a doctor dressed up
Speaker 2: as a doctor, and he would groom into the lives
Speaker 2: of the people who's going to kill and kill and
Speaker 2: then drive away with his wife. She didn't participate in
Speaker 2: the killings, but she participated in the leaving the scene.
Speaker 2: And she never was interviewed until we found her in
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, and it was the most intense interview I've
Speaker 2: ever heard on the phone. She said when she got
Speaker 2: in the car in nineteen fifty five, within five minutes
Speaker 2: he had her raped her and that was the beginning
Speaker 2: of what he was going to do with her. He
Speaker 2: was just going to drag her around and kill. Then
Speaker 2: he got caught and went to Deer Lodge to prison
Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty six here in Montana for Robbrey, and
Speaker 2: nobody ever talked to her. So he's then's ends up
Speaker 2: marrying Kay Edwards in nineteen sixty eight after he gets
Speaker 2: out of prison and does the exact same thing with her,
Speaker 2: only he does it with her for forty three years,
Speaker 2: and she was just a wealth of information.
Speaker 7: Well, give us some of that. We don't want to
Speaker 7: give everything away by I mean, this book is just
Speaker 7: a treasure trove of this kind of stopped. It's a
Speaker 7: true crime gold mine here. So tell us about what
Speaker 7: what did she say? What both of them did say
Speaker 7: about what he revealed to them. Obviously they weren't witnesses
Speaker 7: to the murders, But what did they say about some
Speaker 7: of the things that he mentioned to them?
Speaker 2: Well, their whole life was based like this. Kay and
Speaker 2: ed were married for forty three years. They had five children,
Speaker 2: They have eleven grandchildren. And they would spend maybe a year,
Speaker 2: maybe two years in one place, sometimes in a campground,
Speaker 2: but always somewhere else. Every two years and burned down
Speaker 2: the house when they left. Ed was an arsonist. He
Speaker 2: loved to burn, and that's part of the satanic thing
Speaker 2: of his. And so he would basically make his wife
Speaker 2: watch the kids in a campground for months on end
Speaker 2: while they'd live in the summer, say in Colorado, while
Speaker 2: he traveled around and killed everywhere around Colorado. She detailed
Speaker 2: that the police coming over in questioning her about Jimmy
Speaker 2: Hoffa in her leaving Florida, and this is in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy nine, seventy seven, somewhere around there and taking off
Speaker 2: and going into Atlanta where he starts the Atlanta child killings.
Speaker 2: So she was witnessed to a lot of events that
Speaker 2: the police were after it, but she didn't know what
Speaker 2: he was doing. All she was therefore was to take
Speaker 2: care of the kids and survive. She's almost as if
Speaker 2: she has the Stockholm syndrome. She was a captive for
Speaker 2: forty three years, the worst serial killer there's ever been,
Speaker 2: and she said she would not have gone against anything
Speaker 2: he did. He just went with the program. And even
Speaker 2: after his capture, she just said, I just didn't quite
Speaker 2: understand it all until he was put away. And now
Speaker 2: she kind of understands how manipulative he was, but she
Speaker 2: still can't believe the extent of what he'd done, and
Speaker 2: she just felt like he was always two different people.
Speaker 7: She had given knew something from her collection, her own
Speaker 7: private things, an article that Edwards had clipped out and
Speaker 7: with it was you included in the book and it's profound.
Speaker 7: So tell us there's two parts of it. It looks
Speaker 7: like it's taped together. But tell us what was in
Speaker 7: the more profound part of this? What was included in
Speaker 7: this that she gave you that Edwards had saved all
Speaker 7: those years.
Speaker 2: Sure, Edwards loved to save articles about his exploits, but
Speaker 2: this one was profound because it was sent in March
Speaker 2: of nineteen seventy one. And what it is. It's an
Speaker 2: interview that Edwards actually gave the Akron Beacon Journal in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, and he demanded that they not use
Speaker 2: his name. But in the interview he says that he
Speaker 2: knew who the Zodiac Killer was, and that the Zodiac
Speaker 2: Killer had spent time in Deer Lodge Prison in Montana
Speaker 2: with him, and that that alone was the piece of
Speaker 2: evidence that was needed to identify the Zodiac Killer. Because
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine, when the Zodiac killed the two couple,
Speaker 2: the couple on the beach at Lake Berriessa, he had
Speaker 2: said he had been in Deer Lodg Prison, Montana. And
Speaker 2: what nobody understood was he had been there, but not
Speaker 2: in nineteen sixty nine. He had been there in nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six to fifty nine, and it was a clue.
Speaker 2: And that interview he gave was a clue put out
Speaker 2: right at the time, at the height of the Zodiac
Speaker 2: tear going on all over the country. That article was
Speaker 2: played throughout the Associated Press and here was the real
Speaker 2: Zodiac killer telling him to look towards Deer Lodge Prison
Speaker 2: and you'll find the Zodiac killer. And it ended up
Speaker 2: being the truth. That's where he was.
Speaker 7: Inredible. Now you've talked about what has happened since this
Speaker 7: book has been released, and I would imagine some type
Speaker 7: of firestorm to a certain degree. So let's talk about
Speaker 7: first the reaction from police and prosecution, those type of authorities,
Speaker 7: and then we'll move on to the media and the
Speaker 7: public response.
Speaker 2: Well, the action the action from authorities has actually always
Speaker 2: been negative, I mean, and it still remains today because
Speaker 2: the facts are that the killer was inside, and it
Speaker 2: was guiding you know, missed trials and people being executed
Speaker 2: and people being sentenced to life in prison. And there's
Speaker 2: no way they want to open this bucket of worms,
Speaker 2: and so I don't ever expect to see them come
Speaker 2: on board on any of it. They just I've always
Speaker 2: wanted to go away, and the public is divided. I've
Speaker 2: had a great response from people and calls, phone calls
Speaker 2: and emails and other cases. But the biggest thing that's
Speaker 2: come about is I knew there would be many more cases,
Speaker 2: and it's just phenomenal. When I wrote the book, I
Speaker 2: had them at around one hundred and twenty murders. Now
Speaker 2: I have them at around two hundred and forty, and
Speaker 2: I know that he killed five hundred, so I you know,
Speaker 2: there's a lot more work to do. But I got
Speaker 2: so many people out there, investigators that are helping and
Speaker 2: sending connections to some of the cases. So it's working
Speaker 2: out really well.
Speaker 7: So you've had some validation of the work that you have,
Speaker 7: you and Neil have done in terms of from people
Speaker 7: you respect in that are not tied to these outcomes
Speaker 7: or these past decisions.
Speaker 2: No, it's to the victims' families. It's been awesome the Ramseys.
Speaker 2: That was probably the biggest validation of it all, but
Speaker 2: that came just recently. There's other cases where I've made
Speaker 2: close friends with many of Edwards's victims survivors, and they
Speaker 2: see it, but they also see the pushback on this.
Speaker 2: It's not only pushback from law enforcement, but Edwards manipulated
Speaker 2: the media. He got inside his own murder documentaries. He
Speaker 2: was always right in front of everybody and the media.
Speaker 2: It was really responsible for the destruction of many of
Speaker 2: the innocent people that he set up because it looked
Speaker 2: so obvious that they must have done it, so they
Speaker 2: reported it that way. And that's exactly what happened to
Speaker 2: the Ramsayes, and that's what happened to everyone in its cases.
Speaker 2: He was always designed to destroy an innocent person, kill
Speaker 2: an innocent person, and set up an innocent person, and
Speaker 2: that way you're not only killing, but you're just creating
Speaker 2: care and horrible forever. You know it's going to go
Speaker 2: on a long time because he was alive for sixty
Speaker 2: six years killing and there'll be many more.
Speaker 7: You don't really make this book an indictment of the
Speaker 7: media though, or the prosecutors that pushed cases like you say,
Speaker 7: where a guy pled guilty because he death penalty was
Speaker 7: on the table and that was it. So it's question
Speaker 7: for somebody to plead guilty to something they didn't do.
Speaker 7: But what has the media and who have you approached
Speaker 7: and what has the media's I mean major media, What
Speaker 7: has then been their response to the claims that you
Speaker 7: can wrap up a bunch of unsolved cases or wrongful
Speaker 7: convictions or both with this book.
Speaker 2: It's been really negative. They have not really wanted to
Speaker 2: put it out. The only actual international publication that did
Speaker 2: was The Globe, and I did appear on Close to
Speaker 2: Coast Radio upon the release and that was a great
Speaker 2: response on that program. But for the most part, no,
Speaker 2: the national media is who Edwards as the Zodiac always targeted.
Speaker 2: It was always about targeting the editors of the papers
Speaker 2: and the media with the Zodiac Killer and targeting them
Speaker 2: with false letters. So throughout his life, what he would
Speaker 2: do is kill someone and hide the body, and then
Speaker 2: he would lead the media to the body through anonymous
Speaker 2: letters to the newspaper, and then he would collect the
Speaker 2: reward under assume name because the body has been found.
Speaker 2: And he would always pick his victims who were wealthy,
Speaker 2: so he knew there'd be a big financial gain to
Speaker 2: plant the body, find it and collect the reward. And
Speaker 2: then once the innocent man was arrested, Edwards would send
Speaker 2: those editors another letter and taunt them with you got
Speaker 2: the wrong guy. There are going to be many, many
Speaker 2: more letters that he sent. Whether or not many of
Speaker 2: the news organizations are going to release them remains to
Speaker 2: be seen. But he always made sure that once the
Speaker 2: wrong guy went down for the crime, that he would
Speaker 2: return to the media and taunt them with you got
Speaker 2: the wrong guy. And a lot of that is the
Speaker 2: reason why they don't want to expose that Edwards, because
Speaker 2: it's pretty horrible. It was easy to use reporters for
Speaker 2: his to destroy people because they don't have to give
Speaker 2: up their sources source was actually the killer, and so
Speaker 2: it creates quite a problem.
Speaker 7: Are you surprised or disappointed at the because I believe
Speaker 7: and I would believe the audience would be listening to
Speaker 7: this as well and realize that this is a very
Speaker 7: controversial book just by nature of what you were saying,
Speaker 7: what you were claiming, and having again the media up
Speaker 7: ended wrongful convictions. What we thought was the you know,
Speaker 7: the total of this, It just seems to be a
Speaker 7: at if you were to explain it in five minutes
Speaker 7: and be like, oh my god, it almost sounds fictional.
Speaker 7: How could it be all tied in there? But you
Speaker 7: state a very very very compelling case. You did dogged
Speaker 7: detective work to place him here, handwriting analysis, cryptograms analyzed
Speaker 7: by your cohort or your partner, Neil. This is not
Speaker 7: a sensationalistic ploy to sell books. You have your background,
Speaker 7: your credibility is not to be shaken. Have you disappointed
Speaker 7: or surprised by the lack of the media even giving
Speaker 7: you a chance to explain the controversy or take the
Speaker 7: controversy at face value but challenge you. Are you surprised
Speaker 7: or disappointed by that non challenge?
Speaker 2: Well, I was in the beginning, you know. And I'm
Speaker 2: talking about the beginning of the investigation back in twenty
Speaker 2: ten before I wrote the book. I'm really not a
Speaker 2: book writer an author. I'm a police officer, and I
Speaker 2: kind of wrote the book in a form of an
Speaker 2: investigation and just laid it out and let you guys,
Speaker 2: I'm not surprised at all anymore of the negativity towards it,
Speaker 2: and I really it doesn't bother me at all. I've
Speaker 2: had such great response from the victims' families all over
Speaker 2: the US and from all over the country, from people
Speaker 2: that were really hurt by this man. That's really what
Speaker 2: it was all about, and just getting the story out there.
Speaker 2: I was really hoping that the press would pick up
Speaker 2: on it in twenty eleven when he died and just
Speaker 2: put it out there and let the police do their investigation.
Speaker 2: But they never investigated at Edwards fully after his capture.
Speaker 2: They know, the FBI never got involved. They never did
Speaker 2: a full examination of what he had done. And we
Speaker 2: were able to do it because we weren't police officers.
Speaker 2: Edwards was in prison and had a lawyer. Police couldn't
Speaker 2: contact him and say, hey, I want to know about this.
Speaker 2: I want to know about that, because they had the lawyer.
Speaker 2: But we weren't police officers, so we were able to
Speaker 2: confront him. But it really was the solving of that
Speaker 2: Zodiac cryptogram at the very beginning of the thing that
Speaker 2: unraveld who he was. He's the Zodiac Killer. He's the
Speaker 2: real guy, and he's been alive for seventy seven years
Speaker 2: and he's been killing for sixty six of those. What
Speaker 2: has he been doing? And the book is about the
Speaker 2: timeline of his life.
Speaker 7: What was the relationship before we talk about the toll
Speaker 7: it had on you? I guess this nine months, but
Speaker 7: tell us just about the relationship that ended up being developed.
Speaker 7: How trusting was he of you described the dynamic between
Speaker 7: you over that ensuing nine months.
Speaker 2: Well, it was really interesting at the beginning because Neil
Speaker 2: and I had both sent Edwards a letter after Neil
Speaker 2: had stallved the zodiac identity cipher and named Edwards. And
Speaker 2: when Edwards got the letters, he thought that Neil and
Speaker 2: I were actually one person playing a game against a
Speaker 2: serial killer who portrayed himself as two people his whole life.
Speaker 2: And in the first letter to us, you'll see at
Speaker 2: the very end it's ps am, I to call you
Speaker 2: John or Neil, and I knew I had gotten him.
Speaker 2: I knew I had gotten to him once he answered
Speaker 2: like that, because that's the exactly what the intention was.
Speaker 2: Edwards was two people. He was on the dark side
Speaker 2: and he was on the good side, and Neil and
Speaker 2: I confronted him like that. Neil knew the dark side
Speaker 2: and took all of the cryptograms that he had solved
Speaker 2: and used the words in those cryptograms right back at Edwards,
Speaker 2: and Edwards just fell in love with it. Actually, Neil
Speaker 2: forgave him and the two actually became close, and it
Speaker 2: became very scary for that period of nine months, wondering
Speaker 2: if Edwards was actually playing planning to get us some way.
Speaker 2: He actually said in a letter he was sending somebody
Speaker 2: out to talk to us, and you know, well, what
Speaker 2: do we expect a serial killer sending someone out to
Speaker 2: talk to you. He was very scary, and the fact
Speaker 2: that he died was actually a good thing that man alive.
Speaker 2: There's not a police officer in the world that would
Speaker 2: have ever caught him confronting him. He would have taken
Speaker 2: away someone close to you. That's how evil he was.
Speaker 7: Now, you talk about the confrontation that you and Neil,
Speaker 7: and you specifically more so confronted him when you did
Speaker 7: confront him about these past crime Did you ever just
Speaker 7: coin the question why? Did you ever? Did he ever
Speaker 7: help to that admit to why?
Speaker 2: You don't know? Because the why of it was so
Speaker 2: in depth that most people would never understand what he
Speaker 2: was really up to, you know, because he was religious
Speaker 2: when he was very young, and because he was put
Speaker 2: into that Catholic orphanage and then destroyed there, he really
Speaker 2: played a game against society as running around as portraying
Speaker 2: a satan. Almost your best friend killing your daughter, you know.
Speaker 2: So he was so good at the smooth and he
Speaker 2: was a good looking man. Everybody liked him. He invited
Speaker 2: everybody in. He didn't have to jump out the car
Speaker 2: and grab people. They all came to him, they invited
Speaker 2: him into his house. The reason was he wanted to
Speaker 2: show society how degraded we've become. That he could kill,
Speaker 2: and he could set someone up, and he could watch
Speaker 2: society jump all over that innocent man and then execute
Speaker 2: him and in the end, you're wrong, and it would
Speaker 2: show that we have become so dark in society that
Speaker 2: this is just a repeat of history going all the
Speaker 2: way back to ancient Egyptian history, which was what the
Speaker 2: zodiac was always based on. And it was the revelation
Speaker 2: of we're dark, We're in a very dark spot, and
Speaker 2: you know, we sit here and fight Isis in America. Well,
Speaker 2: Isis was actually an ancient Egyptian god, female god, and
Speaker 2: he portrayed ancient Egyptian gods his whole life. Trying to
Speaker 2: exact his fans and his religious views on us.
Speaker 7: Now, I also wanted just to mention I did talk
Speaker 7: about all of the source documents, original source documents, and
Speaker 7: I find that very exciting to have that kind of
Speaker 7: information to go along with this compelling argument basically state
Speaker 7: your case case by case, and so it's very entertaining.
Speaker 7: I mean, it's really You've got two guys that are
Speaker 7: on a massive murder mystery that unprecedented, and you have
Speaker 7: this constant source material from Metamorphosis of a Criminal, which
Speaker 7: you include in your fine book and the letters and
Speaker 7: the cryptograms and everything that you want to do to
Speaker 7: support your case. So it's incredible for true crime fans
Speaker 7: to be able to read something like this, which is
Speaker 7: unusual to have these kinds of documents in this kind
Speaker 7: of proof and you have to painstakely state your case here.
Speaker 7: So it's very different type of books. So it's I
Speaker 7: congratulate you on this case by case analysis in a
Speaker 7: very very unique way, but you know, very very entertaining.
Speaker 7: So for those people that have been contacting you and
Speaker 7: maybe as a result of this, want to find out
Speaker 7: a little bit more about this fascinating book, this case
Speaker 7: or like I say, some of this original source documentation,
Speaker 7: or just the incredible past where there's all these videos
Speaker 7: where he was on to tell the truth and these
Speaker 7: great photographs are that are containing your book. So how
Speaker 7: could they contact you, John for more information or if
Speaker 7: they wanted to correspond with you personally?
Speaker 2: I have a website called www dot Coldcasecameron dot com.
Speaker 2: And what that website is is my timeline that I
Speaker 2: did of Edward's life and it's goes through every every decade,
Speaker 2: thirties all the way up to twenty and eleven when
Speaker 2: he died, and actually puts a lot more of the
Speaker 2: documents I have. I couldn't possibly put him all in
Speaker 2: the book because there's so many, but I've linked up
Speaker 2: that website to his entire life and all the evidence
Speaker 2: and documentation, and that website is a growing thing. So
Speaker 2: if anybody wants to read Edwards's book, Metamorphsis of a Criminal,
Speaker 2: there's a free copy of it on my website a
Speaker 2: PDF file and you can read it. It's just amazing
Speaker 2: when you read it because now knowing who he is,
Speaker 2: when you read what he wrote in that book, you
Speaker 2: knew he was a good con.
Speaker 7: Yes, and you know It's very interesting too that I've
Speaker 7: never actually heard an author kind of state the claim
Speaker 7: or that this was a matter of Satanism. Everything he
Speaker 7: did was sort of a homage to Satan himself from
Speaker 7: his past treatment as a kid in his Catholic orphanage.
Speaker 7: That everything he did had that Satanic element of ruination.
Speaker 7: And you know, like I say, wrongfulcs and executions of
Speaker 7: people that were innocent. You even have a case that
Speaker 7: you chronicle in here, sister Margaret Paul, and we had
Speaker 7: author Fred Rosen talking about his book about that case,
Speaker 7: Saint Wore Across again fantastic, an incredible, almost unbelievable case.
Speaker 7: Talk about the back of the Black Dahlia and evidence
Speaker 7: to support that. And the Atlanta child killings, where again
Speaker 7: another wrongful conviction. You talk about people that were executed wrongfully,
Speaker 7: people that were accused, their lives were ruined. And this
Speaker 7: masterful Edward Wayne Edwards tried to provide to the world
Speaker 7: that he would become this most infamous killer of all
Speaker 7: time by providing all the clues and puzzles and proof
Speaker 7: that he was this most prolific serial killer.
Speaker 2: That's exactly what he did. That's exactly what he did.
Speaker 2: He put it out there to be found and he
Speaker 2: just was hoping something to challenge him.
Speaker 7: Well, it's incredible too, as you state that this case
Speaker 7: just seemed to fall into place. You were there, and
Speaker 7: very many of the stories that I've covered in this
Speaker 7: five years are stories like that, were a detective, a
Speaker 7: hard working guy, just happens to pick up the phone
Speaker 7: at the right time or be there to make that
Speaker 7: you know, tenuous connection, but instinctually you understand from your
Speaker 7: background that, oh, I think there's a little bit more
Speaker 7: to this, and so incredibly you get involved inextricably in
Speaker 7: one of the most incredible cases in true crime history.
Speaker 7: So I want to thank you very much, John for
Speaker 7: coming on and sharing with us the story of It's
Speaker 7: me the Edward, Wayne Edwards, the serial killer you never
Speaker 7: heard of.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, John, Thank you Dan for having
Speaker 2: me on.
Speaker 7: I want to thank you very much and you have
Speaker 7: a great evening.
Speaker 6: Good night,