1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:02,000 Speaker 1: Latest interview of Elon Musk. 2 00:00:02,839 --> 00:00:03,960 Speaker 2: That's better, thank you. 3 00:00:04,960 --> 00:00:06,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, we're gonna make this interesting. 4 00:00:08,759 --> 00:00:10,599 Speaker 1: How many how many quotes are you going to want 5 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,880 that are going to be after this session? 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:15,800 Speaker 2: I don't know. 7 00:00:15,839 --> 00:00:16,199 Speaker 3: I mean. 8 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: Five, Okay, So good afternoon everyone. It's great to see 9 00:00:22,199 --> 00:00:24,800 everybody here. It's been an amazing week. 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:25,519 Speaker 2: Here in Davos. 11 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:33,039 Speaker 1: Hopefully everybody saw that we are having conversations here. Hopefully 12 00:00:33,039 --> 00:00:36,840 everybody agrees. There are some conversations that we made disagreed. 13 00:00:37,399 --> 00:00:40,359 There's many conversations that we may have agreed, but through 14 00:00:40,359 --> 00:00:43,880 those conversations and I think today's result with a peace 15 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:48,719 agreement earlier today, the World Economic Forum is here to 16 00:00:48,759 --> 00:00:53,359 have those conversations that have understandings and also resolution. So 17 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,799 it's an important component of who we and. 18 00:00:58,799 --> 00:01:02,759 Speaker 2: What we are. And olled to have Elon Musk here. 19 00:01:04,799 --> 00:01:06,959 Speaker 1: He came all the way from California to be here 20 00:01:07,159 --> 00:01:07,920 to see all of you. 21 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 2: So thank you Elon. 22 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:15,519 Speaker 3: He was welcome. I mean I heard I heard about 23 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,599 about the formation of the Peace Summit, and I was like, 24 00:01:19,719 --> 00:01:27,040 is that is that? P I e C you know, 25 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:32,519 a little piece of greenland, a little pieza, Thanks, we 26 00:01:32,599 --> 00:01:34,680 got one. All we want is peace. 27 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:37,840 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna as I said, I'm a pretty proud 28 00:01:38,599 --> 00:01:43,120 CEO of black Rock since we went public, the compounding 29 00:01:43,159 --> 00:01:47,560 return of Blackrock to our shoulders with twenty Since Elon 30 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:55,319 took Tesla public, his compounded return is forty three percent. 31 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:01,799 This is just another advertisement for everybody's for Europeans, this 32 00:02:01,959 --> 00:02:07,840 is why more citizens should be investing with growth, investing 33 00:02:07,879 --> 00:02:11,159 with your countries. Imagine if a lot of pension funds 34 00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:16,199 invested with Elon when Tesla went public, and how much 35 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,639 return with all the pension funds that invested side by 36 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:26,879 side with Elon and the growth, so a spectacular return. 37 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,560 There's very few companies. Well, I don't think there's any 38 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,199 other company as large as Tesla today that has that 39 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:34,199 compoundent return. 40 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,759 Speaker 2: So congratulations, I think a good measurement. 41 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 3: Well, we have an incredible team a Tesla. That's the reason. 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 1: So I want to get into the dirt, the meaningful 43 00:02:44,719 --> 00:02:49,639 component about technology, the possibilities. I want to talk about 44 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:54,400 AI and robotics, energy, space and the progress ultimately coming 45 00:02:54,439 --> 00:03:01,680 down to engineering, engineering, discipline, scale, execution, and few people, 46 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:06,520 if not anyone, has the experience and the fortitude to 47 00:03:06,599 --> 00:03:10,120 confront these issues head on not just the ideas, but 48 00:03:10,199 --> 00:03:14,360 the execution across so many different technology zelon And that's 49 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:16,599 why I thought it was important for us to have 50 00:03:16,719 --> 00:03:23,080 this dialogue here in Davos. So you're presently building on AI, 51 00:03:23,199 --> 00:03:27,039 on robotics, on space, on energy all at the same time. 52 00:03:28,039 --> 00:03:32,039 When you look across those efforts, what do they have 53 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,919 in common from an engineering standpoint, Well. 54 00:03:35,759 --> 00:03:41,879 Speaker 3: They're all radical technology challenges. But the overall goal of 55 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:47,680 my companies is to maximize the future of civilization, like 56 00:03:47,719 --> 00:03:51,599 basically maximize the probability that civilization has a great future, 57 00:03:53,439 --> 00:03:58,960 and to expand consciousness beyond Earth. So for sake, SpaceX 58 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,960 for example, that's SpaceX is about advancing rocket technology to 59 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,960 the point where we can extend life and consciousness beyond Earth, 60 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,719 to the Moon, to Mars eventually to other star systems. 61 00:04:12,719 --> 00:04:17,959 And I think we should always view consciousness life as 62 00:04:17,959 --> 00:04:23,959 we know it as precarious and delicate, because to the 63 00:04:23,959 --> 00:04:26,879 best of our knowledge, we don't know if life anywhere else. 64 00:04:27,480 --> 00:04:32,839 You know, I'm often asked other aliens among us, and 65 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:34,439 I'll say that I am one. 66 00:04:34,720 --> 00:04:36,759 Speaker 2: But or you here from the future. 67 00:04:36,920 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 3: They don't believe me, Okay, So I think if anyone 68 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:45,079 would know if there are aliens among us, who would 69 00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:45,279 be me? 70 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,439 Speaker 2: And we have. 71 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 3: Nine thousand satellites up there, and not once have we 72 00:04:52,639 --> 00:04:56,560 had to maneuver around an alien spaceship. So I'm like, 73 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,800 I don't know. The bottom line is, I think we 74 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,399 need to assume that life and consciousness is extremely rare 75 00:05:04,439 --> 00:05:08,279 and it might only be us, and if that's the case, 76 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,439 then we need to do everything possible to ensure that 77 00:05:12,439 --> 00:05:17,720 the light of the light of consciousness is not extinguished 78 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:21,839 because we're effectively. The way I view it is the 79 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,720 measure in my mind is of a tiny candle in 80 00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:30,040 a vast darkness, a tiny candle of consciousness that could 81 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,439 easily go out. And that's why it's important to make 82 00:05:33,480 --> 00:05:37,319 life multiplanetary such that if there is a natural disaster 83 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,040 or a man made disaster on Earth, that consciousness continues. 84 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:50,959 That's the purpose of SpaceX. Tesla is obviously about sustainable technology, 85 00:05:48,519 --> 00:05:54,000 and also at this point we've sort of added to 86 00:05:54,040 --> 00:06:00,079 our mission sustainable abundance. So with the robotics and aim 87 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,160 this this is really the path to abundance for all. 88 00:06:06,519 --> 00:06:10,480 If you say, you know, people often talk about solving 89 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:15,519 global poverty or essentially, how do we make give everyone 90 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,279 a very high standard of living. I think the only 91 00:06:19,319 --> 00:06:23,839 way to do this is AI and robotics, which which 92 00:06:23,879 --> 00:06:28,319 doesn't mean that it is without its issues. I mean this, 93 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,160 We need to be very careful with AI. We need 94 00:06:31,199 --> 00:06:34,040 to be very careful with robotics. We don't want to 95 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:39,959 find ourselves in a James Camera movie. You know, a Terminator. 96 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,120 He's a great, great movie. He love his movies. But 97 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,399 we don't want to be a Terminator. Obviously. But but 98 00:06:47,639 --> 00:06:53,079 if you have ubiquitous AI that is essentially free or 99 00:06:53,079 --> 00:06:58,199 close to it, and ubiquitous robotics, then you will have 100 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,920 an ex an explosion in the global economy, an expansion 101 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:07,240 in the global economy that is truly beyond all precedent. 102 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:12,439 Speaker 1: Can that expansion be broad or is it narrow? And 103 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,439 how can that be created? 104 00:07:14,639 --> 00:07:16,560 Speaker 2: How can it broaden the global economy? 105 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I mean, I mean the way to think 106 00:07:22,959 --> 00:07:24,519 of it is that if you have a large number 107 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:32,319 of humanoid robots, the economic output is the average productivity 108 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:38,279 per robot times the number of robots. Right, And actually 109 00:07:38,279 --> 00:07:42,160 my prediction is in the benign scenario of the future 110 00:07:42,519 --> 00:07:45,399 that we will the robots will actually make so many 111 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:49,279 robots in AI that they will actually saturate all human needs, 112 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:51,560 I meaning you are to be able to even think 113 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,959 of something to ask the robot for at a certain point, 114 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,519 Like there will be such an abundance of goods and 115 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:05,079 services because the my prediction is there'll be there'll be 116 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:06,120 more robots than people. 117 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:10,079 Speaker 1: So but how do you then have human purpose in 118 00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:10,920 that scenario? 119 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 3: I mean, you know there was not nothing is perfect, 120 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:20,560 you know, but I mean, I mean, is it is 121 00:08:20,879 --> 00:08:25,560 a necessary? Like you can't have both. You can't have 122 00:08:25,959 --> 00:08:30,920 work that has to be done, uh and amazing abundance 123 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:34,639 for all because if it's if it's work that has 124 00:08:34,639 --> 00:08:36,840 to be done, then then then you and and only 125 00:08:36,879 --> 00:08:39,639 some people can do it, then then you you can't 126 00:08:39,639 --> 00:08:46,120 have abundance narrow narrow exactly. So but if you if 127 00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:48,200 you have billions of humanoid robots, and I think it 128 00:08:48,279 --> 00:08:52,080 will be I think, I think everyone on earth is 129 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:55,559 going to have one and going to want one, because 130 00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:01,320 you who wouldn't want a robot to you know, assuming 131 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,320 it's very safe, watch over your kids, take care of 132 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:09,399 your pets, if you have elderly parents. A lot of 133 00:09:09,399 --> 00:09:11,600 friends might have said that for elderly parents it's it's 134 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,919 very difficult to take care of them. Yeah, it's expensive 135 00:09:14,919 --> 00:09:17,720 and it's expensive, and they just aren't enough people to 136 00:09:17,799 --> 00:09:20,200 take care of the enough young people to take care 137 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:25,320 of the old people. So if if they if you 138 00:09:25,399 --> 00:09:28,639 had a robot that could take care of and protect 139 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,759 and elderly parents, I think that would be great. That 140 00:09:31,759 --> 00:09:35,720 would be an amazing thing to have and and I 141 00:09:35,759 --> 00:09:39,559 think we will have those things. So overall, I'm very 142 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,879 optimistic about the future. I think we're headed for a 143 00:09:41,879 --> 00:09:49,440 future of amazing abundance, which is very cool. And and 144 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:52,679 definitely we are in the most interesting time in history. 145 00:09:55,039 --> 00:09:58,720 I think there's more a more interesting time in history. 146 00:09:58,759 --> 00:10:01,639 Speaker 1: Can we can you when I reverse aging in this 147 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,600 new history or or are we going to see it? 148 00:10:06,879 --> 00:10:09,200 Speaker 3: You know, I haven't. I haven't put much time into 149 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:12,480 the aging stuff. I do think it is a very 150 00:10:12,519 --> 00:10:18,080 solvable problem, like you can do. I think when we 151 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:21,399 figure out what causes aging, I think we'll find it's 152 00:10:21,440 --> 00:10:25,559 incredibly obvious. It's not a subtle thing. The reason I 153 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,480 say it's not a subtle thing is because all the 154 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:30,759 cells in your body, you know, with some pretty much 155 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:34,559 age at the same rate. I've never seen someone with 156 00:10:34,759 --> 00:10:37,879 an old left arm and a young right arm ever 157 00:10:37,919 --> 00:10:41,960 in my life. So why is that? That means that 158 00:10:42,039 --> 00:10:44,919 there must be a clock, a synchronizing clock that is 159 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,720 synchronizing across thirty five trillion cells in your body, and 160 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,120 you know there is some benefit to death. By the way, 161 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,759 it's like this, there's a reason why we don't actually 162 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,799 have a longer lifespan because if you if you have, 163 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:08,200 if people do live forever for a very long time, 164 00:11:08,279 --> 00:11:11,679 I think there's some risk of an ossification of society, 165 00:11:12,159 --> 00:11:18,120 of things just getting kind of locked in place, and 166 00:11:20,399 --> 00:11:26,840 you know, it just may become stultifying just not uh, 167 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:31,480 lack vibrancy. But but that that's said, do I think 168 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:38,000 we'll figure out ways to extend life and and maybe 169 00:11:38,039 --> 00:11:40,279 even reverse aging. I think that's highly likely. 170 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,080 Speaker 2: I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, So. 171 00:11:47,559 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: In the future that you talk about AI models, autonomous machines, 172 00:11:51,399 --> 00:11:57,679 rockets depends on massive increases a compute, massive increases energy 173 00:11:58,559 --> 00:12:02,440 expensive energy, manufacturing scale. 174 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: What are the bottle next to get there? 175 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: And once again, with all that expenditures, again, how can 176 00:12:10,399 --> 00:12:13,320 we make sure that it's broad and not narrow. 177 00:12:19,799 --> 00:12:21,440 Speaker 3: I just think the natural thing is it's going to 178 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:25,799 be very broad because AI companies will seek as many 179 00:12:25,799 --> 00:12:28,639 customers as they possibly can, and the cost of AI 180 00:12:28,759 --> 00:12:32,759 will get is already very low, and it's planeting every year, 181 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:36,799 I mean almost the cost of AI is almost changed, 182 00:12:37,159 --> 00:12:39,039 meaningfully changing on a month's month basis. 183 00:12:39,519 --> 00:12:41,799 Speaker 2: There's open there's open models now everywhere. 184 00:12:41,919 --> 00:12:46,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, yes, very there's open models, and the open models 185 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:50,200 only lack there maybe a year behind right the private 186 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:55,159 the sort of closed models. So so I think the 187 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,200 AI companies will seek as many customers as possible, which 188 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,320 means they'll see they'll provide AI to the world, but the. 189 00:13:03,200 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 1: Cost of getting to there that compute, the chips, the 190 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:14,559 fab the powering that to me, what are the what 191 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:17,000 are the you know, those are a huge limiting factory. 192 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,399 Speaker 3: I think the limiting factor for AI deployment is fundamentally 193 00:13:22,039 --> 00:13:22,840 electrical power. 194 00:13:22,919 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 2: It's just its energy. 195 00:13:25,639 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I mean we're seeing the rate of AI 196 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:34,039 chip production increase exponentially, but the rate of electricity being 197 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:35,840 vote online is uh. 198 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:38,519 Speaker 2: Year acts. 199 00:13:38,639 --> 00:13:42,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's clear that we're very soon, maybe even later 200 00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:45,559 this year, we'll be producing more chips than we can 201 00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:51,120 turn on except for China. China. China is China's growth 202 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:53,120 electricity is tremendous. 203 00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:55,679 Speaker 2: Hundred gigawatts of nuclear as we speak. 204 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:59,320 Speaker 3: Actually, solar is the sole biggest thing in China. So 205 00:13:59,399 --> 00:14:03,039 China's I believe transproduction capacity on solar is fifteen hundred 206 00:14:03,039 --> 00:14:07,600 gigawats a year, and they're deploying over a thousand gigawatts 207 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:14,159 a year of solar. Now, you know, for continuous solar load, 208 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:19,399 you divide that by roughly don't know, four or five cola. 209 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:23,559 That's around two hundred and fifty gigawats of steady state 210 00:14:23,639 --> 00:14:29,879 power paired with batteries. And that's a very big number. 211 00:14:29,919 --> 00:14:33,320 That's half of the average power usage in the US. 212 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:38,559 So US power usage on average is five hundred gigawatts. 213 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,399 China just in solar like just in solar like that 214 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:49,240 can provide steady state power and batteries can do half 215 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:53,039 of the elect US electricity output per year just with solar. 216 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:58,919 Solar is by far the biggest source of energy. And 217 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,559 actually when you look on or even even on Earth, 218 00:15:02,559 --> 00:15:07,080 but certainly beyond Earth, that the Sun rounds up to 219 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,879 one hundred percent of all energy. This is an important 220 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,320 thing to consider. So the Sun is ninety nine point 221 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,759 eight percent of the mass of the Solar system, Jupiter 222 00:15:18,879 --> 00:15:23,240 is about point one percent and everything else is miscellaneous. Now, 223 00:15:23,279 --> 00:15:28,559 even if you were to burn Jupiter in a thermo 224 00:15:28,639 --> 00:15:33,600 nuclear reactor, the amount of energy produced by the Sun 225 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,320 would still round up to one hundred percent, because Jupiter 226 00:15:36,399 --> 00:15:39,639 is only point one percent. If you teleported teleported three 227 00:15:39,679 --> 00:15:44,759 more Jupiters into our solar system and burnt three more 228 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:49,080 Jupiters and everything else in the solar system, the Sun's 229 00:15:50,279 --> 00:15:54,159 energy would still round up to one hundred percent. So 230 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,519 it's really all about the Sun. And that's that's why 231 00:15:59,240 --> 00:16:02,120 one of the things where we do with SpaceX within 232 00:16:02,159 --> 00:16:07,440 a few years, it's launching solar powered AI satellites, right, 233 00:16:08,679 --> 00:16:12,399 because the space is really the source of immense power, 234 00:16:13,159 --> 00:16:14,799 And then you don't need to take up any room 235 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,159 on Earth. There's so much room in space, and you 236 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:23,559 can scale to enormous I mean, you can scale to 237 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,799 I think ultimately hundreds hundreds of terror wats the year. 238 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:35,960 Speaker 1: You and I have had these conversations before, but what 239 00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:38,320 don't you tell the audience what would it take for 240 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,120 the United States and what type of geography would it 241 00:16:41,159 --> 00:16:45,080 take to have that solar field to electrify. 242 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,159 Speaker 2: The United States? And then let me ask a question, 243 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:48,159 why aren't we doing it? 244 00:16:49,639 --> 00:16:52,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? So, I mean, I guess the rough way to 245 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:55,200 think about it is one hundred miles by one hundred 246 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,120 miles or quote one hundred and sixty kilometers by one 247 00:16:58,159 --> 00:17:02,399 hundred and sixty kilometers of solar is enough to power 248 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:08,680 the entire United States. So miles one hundred mile areas 249 00:17:08,839 --> 00:17:11,160 is I mean, you could take basically a small corner 250 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:16,119 of Utah, Nevada, Nevada, New Mexico. Obviously wouldn't want it 251 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,920 all in one place, but it's it's a very small 252 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,319 percentage of the area of the US to generate all 253 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:27,680 of the electricity that the US uses. And the same 254 00:17:27,759 --> 00:17:30,559 is true actually, I mean for for Europe, you could 255 00:17:30,559 --> 00:17:36,200 take a small you could take relatively unpopulated areas of 256 00:17:36,279 --> 00:17:40,079 say Spain and Sicily and generate all of the electricity 257 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:41,319 power that your needs. 258 00:17:41,559 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: Why don't you think that there's a movement towards that here. 259 00:17:44,839 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 2: And in the United States? 260 00:17:47,079 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: Well, there is, as it is in China. Well, Unfortunately 261 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:58,240 in the US, the tariff barriers for solar are extremely high, 262 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:04,559 and that makes the economic of deploying solo artificially high. 263 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:09,400 Because China makes almost all the solar and and attack that. 264 00:18:09,519 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: What would it take for Europe or the US to 265 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,319 build it commercially if it's that scale. 266 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think I think, well, I can tell you 267 00:18:20,079 --> 00:18:23,160 what what we're going to do, Yes, SpaceX and TELA 268 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,599 is we're building up large scale solo So the SpaceX 269 00:18:28,599 --> 00:18:31,720 and TELA teams both separately are working to build to 270 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:34,319 one hundred giggle what's a year of solar power in 271 00:18:34,319 --> 00:18:41,359 the US of manufactured solar power, And that'll probably tech 272 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:44,160 Is Center in about three years or something. But that's 273 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,119 that's These are pretty big numbers, and you know, I 274 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:54,640 encourage others to do the same. We obviously don't control that, 275 00:18:54,920 --> 00:19:00,960 you know, your US tariff policy, but for for for 276 00:19:01,039 --> 00:19:07,319 other countries, Huck that this China makes solo cells that 277 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:10,880 are incredibly low costs, and I think it would be 278 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:13,079 worth doing a large scale solo. 279 00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:21,599 Speaker 2: So I know you are. 280 00:19:22,519 --> 00:19:24,400 Speaker 1: You're going to be having a couple of big announcements 281 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,519 on robotics and what it can do. I mean, when 282 00:19:27,559 --> 00:19:29,680 I went to the factory, you showed me those robots. 283 00:19:33,759 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 2: How quickly you talked about the billions of robots. 284 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,880 Speaker 1: But how quickly and how quickly can they be deployed 285 00:19:39,880 --> 00:19:43,279 in a manufacturing setting. How quickly can they be utilized 286 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,359 and be functional and be create that that abundance that you. 287 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:56,799 Speaker 3: Talked about, Well, humanoid robotics will advance very quickly. I 288 00:19:56,839 --> 00:20:02,640 think we do have the tails, the optimist robots doing 289 00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:08,920 simple tasks in the factory, except probably later this year. 290 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:11,000 By the end of this year, I think they'll be 291 00:20:11,039 --> 00:20:19,200 doing more complex tasks and still deployed in an industrial environment, 292 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,559 and and probably sometime next year. I'd say that by 293 00:20:25,599 --> 00:20:29,000 the by the end of next year, I think would 294 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:35,200 be selling humanoid robots UH to the public. That's when 295 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,799 we are confident that it's very higher liability, very high safety, 296 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,240 and the range of functionality is UH is also very high. 297 00:20:43,279 --> 00:20:45,160 You can basically ask it to do anything you'd like. 298 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,119 Speaker 1: You're already seeing that in Tesla car. Is this the 299 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:50,559 software changes that you're doing it? 300 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:51,839 Speaker 2: What is it? Every quarter now? 301 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,799 Speaker 1: A software change that upbrates the ability of a robot 302 00:20:55,960 --> 00:20:56,519 within the car. 303 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 3: Yes, the TAIL is a full self driving software. We 304 00:21:01,079 --> 00:21:06,480 updated sometimes once a week and there recently some of 305 00:21:06,559 --> 00:21:11,119 the insurance companies have said that it is actually so safe. 306 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,680 Tells a full self driving so safe that UH they're 307 00:21:15,759 --> 00:21:20,960 they're offering customers half price insurance if they if they 308 00:21:21,039 --> 00:21:23,559 use tess A full self driving in the car, and. 309 00:21:23,559 --> 00:21:25,759 Speaker 1: That could be monitored by the insurance company, can they 310 00:21:25,799 --> 00:21:30,359 Is that part of the agreement then yeah? 311 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 3: But I think self driving cars is essentially a solved 312 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:43,119 problem at this point, right, And Telsa's roll rolled out 313 00:21:44,079 --> 00:21:46,079 sort of robot taxi service in a few cities and 314 00:21:47,039 --> 00:21:51,319 will be very very widespread by the end of this 315 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,519 year within the US. And then we hope to get 316 00:21:55,599 --> 00:21:59,839 supervised full self driving approval in Europe hopefully next month 317 00:22:00,319 --> 00:22:05,880 really quickly. Yeah, and then maybe a similar time timing 318 00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:06,920 for China hopefully. 319 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm want to move the space because historically space is 320 00:22:10,599 --> 00:22:14,960 very capital and intensive, historically been done by governments of 321 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:19,160 the least. SpaceX change the whole model. But we've seen 322 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,920 it slow to scale and now I'm starting to see 323 00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:24,119 it rapping up in what you're doing and other things. 324 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,039 Talk to us about the reson, you know, the automation 325 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:32,400 and AI, how it's changing the economics and building and 326 00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:34,799 preparing for us in operating in space. 327 00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:44,440 Speaker 3: Sure, well, the key breakthrough that tells that that's the 328 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:47,119 major breakthrough that SpaceX is hoping to achieve this year 329 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:53,160 is full reusability. So no one has ever achieved full 330 00:22:53,160 --> 00:22:56,000 reusability of a rocket, which is very important for the 331 00:22:56,039 --> 00:22:59,920 cost of access to space. We've achieved partial reusability with 332 00:23:00,079 --> 00:23:02,799 Falcon line by landing the boost stage. We've now landed 333 00:23:02,839 --> 00:23:07,720 the boots stage over five hundred times, but we don't 334 00:23:07,759 --> 00:23:10,319 we have to throw away the upper stage. The uper 335 00:23:10,319 --> 00:23:12,880 stage burns up on re entry for Falcon nine, so 336 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:15,880 and that the cost of that is equivalent to a 337 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:21,480 small to medium sized jet. So, but with with Starship, 338 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:24,519 which is a giant rocket, it's the largest flying machine 339 00:23:24,519 --> 00:23:25,000 ever made. 340 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:27,400 Speaker 1: Not the rocket that you're using for the idea of 341 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:28,480 going to Mars, right. 342 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, Mars and the Moon, as well as for high 343 00:23:32,279 --> 00:23:38,880 volume satellite stuff. So Starship. Hopefully this year we should 344 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:44,720 prove full reusability for Starship, which will be a profound 345 00:23:45,799 --> 00:23:52,359 invention because the cost of access to space will drop 346 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:56,200 by a factor of one hundred when you're chief full reusability. 347 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,240 It's the same sort of economic difference that you would 348 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:04,759 expect that between say, a reusable aircraft and a non 349 00:24:04,799 --> 00:24:07,960 reusable aircraft, like if you have to throw aircraft away 350 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,880 after every flight, that would be a very expensive flight. 351 00:24:12,519 --> 00:24:15,559 But if you only have to refuel, then it's the 352 00:24:15,559 --> 00:24:21,920 cost of the fuel. And so that's really the the 353 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,359 fundamental breakthrough that gets the cost of access to space 354 00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:32,759 we think below the cost of a freight on aircraft, 355 00:24:34,599 --> 00:24:39,279 so you know, under one hundred dollars a pound type 356 00:24:39,279 --> 00:24:46,359 of thing easily. So it makes putting large satellites into 357 00:24:47,039 --> 00:24:51,240 into space very low, very very cheap. And then when 358 00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:56,119 you have solar in space, you get five times more effectiveness, 359 00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:58,200 maybe even more than that than solar on the ground 360 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:03,599 because it's always sunny cold, yeah, it's it's it's a 361 00:25:03,839 --> 00:25:06,000 well toys sunny, so you don't have a day night 362 00:25:06,079 --> 00:25:11,200 cycle or seasonality or weather, and you get about thirty 363 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:15,599 percent more power in space because you don't have atrospheric 364 00:25:15,599 --> 00:25:18,880 attenuation of the power. The net effect is solar is 365 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:24,039 five times more. Any given solo panel will do five 366 00:25:24,079 --> 00:25:28,839 times more energy in space than on the ground. 367 00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:31,599 Speaker 1: There is there any capacity in doing that and then 368 00:25:31,799 --> 00:25:33,759 taking that power and bringing it back to Earth? Is 369 00:25:33,759 --> 00:25:36,880 there any way of doing that? Or you're just taking 370 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:39,720 that power and utilizing it for the needs like building 371 00:25:42,599 --> 00:25:44,599 AI data centers in the space. 372 00:25:46,079 --> 00:25:48,559 Speaker 3: I think the case it's a no brainer for building 373 00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:53,079 AI solar powered AI data centers in space because as 374 00:25:53,079 --> 00:25:55,880 you mentioned, it's also very cold in space. If you're 375 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,079 in the shadow, then it's it's very cold in space. 376 00:25:59,079 --> 00:26:02,200 There's three degrees calve. So you just have your soul 377 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:07,799 Kandel spacing the Sun, and then a radiator that's like 378 00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:10,799 point like pointed away from the Sun so it has 379 00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:13,200 no sign incidents, and then it's and then it's just cooling. 380 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:18,799 It's a very efficient cooling system. So net effect is 381 00:26:18,839 --> 00:26:23,160 that the lowest cost place to put AI will be space, 382 00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:28,160 and that'll be true within two years, maybe three, three 383 00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:28,720 of the latest. 384 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,640 Speaker 1: Well, so looking ten or twenty years out, how would 385 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,880 you describe success with AI or space technology? 386 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:39,759 Speaker 2: And where do you see it is that? 387 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,680 Speaker 1: Can you are you more certain what's going to happen 388 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,480 the next three years or five or ten. 389 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:48,839 Speaker 3: I don't know what's going to happen in ten years, 390 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:53,640 but the rate at which AI is progressing, I think 391 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:59,039 we were We might have AI that is smaller than 392 00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:02,119 any human by the end of this year, and I'd 393 00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:07,039 say no later the next year well, and then probably 394 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:09,880 by twenty thirty or twenty thirty one. Call it five 395 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:14,880 years from now, AI will be spotted. Then all of 396 00:27:14,960 --> 00:27:16,440 humanity collectively. 397 00:27:18,599 --> 00:27:20,279 Speaker 1: We only have a number of minutes left. But I 398 00:27:20,559 --> 00:27:24,039 want to humanize you for a second, so there's no 399 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:29,160 speculation that you're a piece, right, I want to I mean, 400 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,599 I would frame this question by you are the most 401 00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:36,400 successful entrepreneur industrialists in the twenty first century, maybe beyond. 402 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:39,039 Speaker 2: So I want to really get this. 403 00:27:39,519 --> 00:27:43,880 Speaker 1: You know what inspired you, Who's inspired you? What was 404 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,839 a foundation of your curiosity, and importantly what was the 405 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:51,279 what was it? 406 00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 2: Was there an. 407 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,119 Speaker 1: Aha moment epiphany at any time in your life and career? 408 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 3: Well, I mean as a kid, I read a lot 409 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,079 of science fiction, sci fi, fantasy books we talked about 410 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,759 and uh, comic books. H and I always like technology. Uh, 411 00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:13,720 I didn't expect to be where I am today. Seems 412 00:28:13,759 --> 00:28:18,839 incredibly implausible, but yeah I was. I was inspired by 413 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,400 reading about books about the future, about science fiction and uh, 414 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,119 and I guess I want to make science fiction not 415 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,480 fiction forever. At some point turned science fiction to science fact. 416 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,039 And uh, you know, we want to have like Starfleet 417 00:28:37,599 --> 00:28:40,599 and star Trek really for for real, like where we 418 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:44,200 actually have giant space ships traveling through space going to 419 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,839 other planets traveling to other star systems. 420 00:28:48,279 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: Beamed up to go back to New York. 421 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: You know, I'd like to just be beamed back to 422 00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:54,160 New York instead of. 423 00:28:54,160 --> 00:29:04,160 Speaker 3: Flying Yeah, star trek. I guess my my essential what 424 00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:07,400 I would call the philosophic philosophy of curiosity. I'd like 425 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,000 to understand the meaning of life. You know, the is 426 00:29:13,039 --> 00:29:15,559 the standard model, is the standard model of physics correct 427 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:19,079 regarding the beginning of life, beginning of existence, and the 428 00:29:19,119 --> 00:29:22,279 end of the year verse? What what questions do we 429 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,359 not know to ask that we should ask? And a 430 00:29:26,519 --> 00:29:30,079 I will help us with these things. So I'm just 431 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:32,079 trying to say, how do we get here? What's going on? 432 00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,079 What's real? Are there aliens? Maybe they are? And if 433 00:29:36,319 --> 00:29:38,599 we've got if we've got spaceships that are traveling to 434 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,640 other star systems, we may find we may encounter aliens, 435 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:46,079 and or we may find many long dead alien civilizations. 436 00:29:46,680 --> 00:29:49,480 But I'm just I just I just want to know 437 00:29:49,519 --> 00:29:55,240 what's going on. I'm curious about the universe. And that's 438 00:29:55,279 --> 00:29:57,160 my philosophy. 439 00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,519 Speaker 1: Do you see yourself ever going to Mars in your lifetime? 440 00:30:02,839 --> 00:30:04,720 Speaker 3: Uh? Yeah, I mean I would say, like, you know, 441 00:30:05,599 --> 00:30:08,319 that's a long commitment. I've been asked, wasn't that three years? 442 00:30:08,319 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 2: Each way? It's six months, six months, that's all it is. 443 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, six months. But the planet's only aligne every every 444 00:30:15,079 --> 00:30:19,519 two years. Okay, so uh yeah. I've been asked a 445 00:30:19,519 --> 00:30:22,880 few times like do I want to, you know, die 446 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,200 On Moss, And I'm like, yes, but just not on impact. 447 00:30:31,279 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 1: That's a good that's a good answer. Anyway, we're out 448 00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:38,440 of time. I hopefully everybody enjoyed this. I mean, there's 449 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,519 so many myths around Elon Muss. I could tell you 450 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,480 he's a great friend, and I constantly learned so much 451 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:50,880 from him, and I'm totally inspired by what he's what 452 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:55,880 he has done. I've been been inspired who he is, 453 00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,759 and I'm totally inspired by his vision of the future. 454 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,720 And I don't think it's such a bad future. And 455 00:31:02,799 --> 00:31:05,519 I agree with his optimism. So Elon, thank you. Any 456 00:31:05,559 --> 00:31:10,279 last words, Well. 457 00:31:10,079 --> 00:31:12,599 Speaker 3: I think generally, I think my last words would be 458 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,400 I would encourage everyone to be optimistic and excited about 459 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:21,480 the future. Good and generally, I think for quality of life, 460 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,480 it is actually better to err on the side of 461 00:31:24,519 --> 00:31:27,720 being an optimist and wrong rather than a pessimist and 462 00:31:27,839 --> 00:31:28,000 right 463 00:31:29,920 --> 00:31:42,279 Speaker 1: On that note, thanks for listening, see you in the 464 00:31:42,319 --> 00:31:43,119 next episode.