WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in

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<v Speaker 1>this edition is Ernie Moger. He is a US Army

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<v Speaker 1>veteran of World War Two. He served with the seventy

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<v Speaker 1>sixth Infantry Division in early nineteen forty five as it

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<v Speaker 1>crossed the Siegfried Line. He was wounded and evacuated just

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<v Speaker 1>before his unit across the Rhine River. Mister Moger, thank

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<v Speaker 1>you so much for being with us.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 1>Where were you born and raised, Sir?

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<v Speaker 2>I was born in New Brunswick, New Jersey. I was

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<v Speaker 2>born at Shant Peters Hospital.

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<v Speaker 1>And was there a history of military service in your

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<v Speaker 1>family before you served?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I was the youngest one in the family. Oh yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I apologize. My brother Bill was a United States Navy

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<v Speaker 2>He was much older than I was. I was the

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<v Speaker 2>baby of the family.

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<v Speaker 1>How did you hear about the news of the Japanese

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<v Speaker 1>attack at Pearl Harbor?

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<v Speaker 2>I I I was at home. We had the regio

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<v Speaker 2>on and it was December seventh, nineteen forty one, that

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<v Speaker 2>Japan bombed the United States. And shortly after that President

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<v Speaker 2>Roosevelt said, we are at war. I remember that, and

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<v Speaker 2>he said to the news media that we are at

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<v Speaker 2>war the United States of America, and that's when it's

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<v Speaker 2>all the services contributed to to men for Army, Navy, Marines,

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<v Speaker 2>in the Air Corps.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, you were drafted right after you finished high school

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<v Speaker 1>nineteen forty four. Were you expecting that to happen? Not?

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<v Speaker 2>Really. I thought the war would be over, and before

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<v Speaker 2>I knew it, the war, the World's War two continued,

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<v Speaker 2>and before I knew that I was drafted into the service.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted the Navy, but I couldn't get the name

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<v Speaker 2>because when I took my examination for the Army, they

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<v Speaker 2>found out that I was colored blind, and the Navy

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<v Speaker 2>did not take a colorflying person. So I said to them,

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<v Speaker 2>what do you mean? And I said what's left? And

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<v Speaker 2>I said the Marines. No, I don't want the Marines.

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<v Speaker 2>The Navy. Of course, I couldn't qualify for it. So

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<v Speaker 2>after going through the sermies, they said to me, all right,

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<v Speaker 2>they gave me a statement, they said United States Army.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't watch the Army because my brother was in

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<v Speaker 2>the Navy, but I had no choice and I went

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<v Speaker 2>into the Army in nineteen forty four.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess how soon were you off to training. After

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<v Speaker 1>you were drafted, I wound.

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<v Speaker 2>Up in Camp Dix, New Jersey. Right after that, I

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<v Speaker 2>wound up in Wisconsin with the seventy sixth Division. I

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<v Speaker 2>stayed with them until we shipped out from Boston. We

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<v Speaker 2>shipped up from Boston and I went over to England

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<v Speaker 2>and I was stationed in England for a while, and

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<v Speaker 2>shortly after that I was in combat.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you remember most about training vigorous.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was giving the M one rifle for the

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<v Speaker 2>first time, I said, oh my god, this is heavy.

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<v Speaker 2>And we went through basic training and before you know it,

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<v Speaker 2>you become acclimated to the weapon, and after a while

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<v Speaker 2>it didn't feel that heavy anymore. But in basic training

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<v Speaker 2>we had field courses to go through under Bah Barr

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<v Speaker 2>who used to climb under bab Bar. This was a

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<v Speaker 2>face of the army had built you up so that

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<v Speaker 2>you were ready for combat. Although if they didn't build

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<v Speaker 2>us up, we would have had a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Now you mentioned that you left Boston, got to England,

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<v Speaker 1>spent time there. Once you got to Europe, after you

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<v Speaker 1>had spent all this time getting used to the M one,

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<v Speaker 1>they changed on you. Gave you the Browning automatic rifle.

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<v Speaker 1>The bar that is correct.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't believe it because when they handed me the

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<v Speaker 2>bar for the first time, I said, oh my god.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I'm not gonna be able to fight with

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<v Speaker 2>that weapon. But let me tell you, I loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>It loved me and I loved it. And after a

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<v Speaker 2>while it didn't feel like a var automatic. That's what

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<v Speaker 2>I liked. THEB one rifle was somewhat automatic, but you

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<v Speaker 2>had to pull a trigger each time. With the bar

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<v Speaker 2>held twenty rounds in the magazine, you put that on

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom, you pull the trigger, and if you hold it,

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<v Speaker 2>twenty rounds went right off. I loved the weapon.

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<v Speaker 1>How long did it take you to get used to it?

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<v Speaker 2>Not long? Oh, I'd say a couple of weeks old.

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<v Speaker 2>Another thing too, if when you had your weapon, I

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<v Speaker 2>remember this and basic treating. If you dropped your weapon,

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<v Speaker 2>that was perishable because that was to save my life.

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<v Speaker 2>And if anyone dropped their weapon, they had to sleep

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<v Speaker 2>with it. Now, if I had dropped that bar, I

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<v Speaker 2>would sleep with that weton for maybe several days as

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<v Speaker 2>punishment for dropping my weapon. That was a no note,

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<v Speaker 2>you don't drop your weapon.

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<v Speaker 1>You mentioned that you thought the M one was heavy.

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<v Speaker 1>How heavy was the bar.

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<v Speaker 2>Voice is heavy. I trained with it, I learned it,

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<v Speaker 2>and it was my baby. Of course, when I went

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<v Speaker 2>into combat with that, it was that weapon that could

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<v Speaker 2>save my life.

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<v Speaker 1>So on your very first day in combat, you crossed

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<v Speaker 1>the Sour River. What was happening that day? Explain how

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<v Speaker 1>you were able to do that?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we had to wait for flat bottom boats and

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<v Speaker 2>a flat bottom boat. There were ten of us in

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<v Speaker 2>each boat to cross the Saur River. We were under gunfire,

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<v Speaker 2>under artillery fire, and I remember I got into the

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<v Speaker 2>boat and what we had to do was paddle across. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>I used the butt. We all the tenement used the

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<v Speaker 2>butt of our rifle for oars, and that's how we

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<v Speaker 2>got across. And there was a butty of mine, Joey Goulo.

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<v Speaker 2>We were buddies together. Joey was in a different boat

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<v Speaker 2>than I, a flat bottom boat. Joey never made it

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<v Speaker 2>across first day of combat. He was killed the first

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<v Speaker 2>day in combat. His boat was hit by artillery. The

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<v Speaker 2>boat went down, and I think most of them went

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<v Speaker 2>down with it. We were both nineteen years old at

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<v Speaker 2>the time. At times, I've saying to myself, what am

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<v Speaker 2>I doing here? I didn't get killed. Well, I didn't

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<v Speaker 2>need kills. I was wounded. I survived, and I was

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<v Speaker 2>wounded the lucky ones. And here I am ninety eight

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<v Speaker 2>years later. Remember what had happened to me? I lived

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<v Speaker 2>through the whole thing.

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<v Speaker 1>How many men were on these flat bottomed boats.

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<v Speaker 2>About ten minute in each boat?

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<v Speaker 1>And how heavy was the German resistance?

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<v Speaker 2>Very heavy? I don't know how many number of boats

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<v Speaker 2>got hit? Was either rifle fire or was artillery? Like

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<v Speaker 2>I said, I was lucky. I made it across. In fact,

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<v Speaker 2>when I crossed the Rhine River, I crossed that like

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<v Speaker 2>point A, and before I reached the other side, point

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<v Speaker 2>B could have been half a mile downstream, because I

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<v Speaker 2>remember the Rhine River was very not only wavy, the

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<v Speaker 2>current was very movable. So if you got in a

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<v Speaker 2>point A, you want to down point B, if you

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<v Speaker 2>made it.

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<v Speaker 1>Across, How would you describe the sound of that? When

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<v Speaker 1>the Germans are shooting artillery and rifle shots? What does

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<v Speaker 1>it sound like? What does it smell like? And how

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<v Speaker 1>do you endure that?

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<v Speaker 2>It sounded like you were gonna get hit. Boats around

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<v Speaker 2>me got hit. I was lucky. Did I pray going across?

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<v Speaker 2>I certainly did I think I asked God. I said, God,

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<v Speaker 2>spare me, and I made it across. The other boats

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<v Speaker 2>I can remember went down. Uh it was very frightening.

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<v Speaker 2>I was only nineteen years old. Uh, I knew of combat,

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<v Speaker 2>what combat was like. I knew you could get killed

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<v Speaker 2>in combat. And I said to myself, I again I prayed,

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<v Speaker 2>and I said, Lord, spare me. He did. I finally

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<v Speaker 2>made it across and continue to fight in Thord in

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<v Speaker 2>the war.

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<v Speaker 1>How serious were the casualties over all that day?

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<v Speaker 2>Far as I can remember, it was severe. I think

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<v Speaker 2>it was our whole division cross and the division consisted

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<v Speaker 2>up as I remember, at least four platoons, and each

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<v Speaker 2>pla had four squads, and each squad had ten men.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you want to do the math, you can

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<v Speaker 2>do the math.

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<v Speaker 1>Now. You said you were using your rifle as an oar. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>So did you have any way of defending yourself?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I had my rifle, that was all.

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<v Speaker 1>So shooting sometimes and using as a paddle at others.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we couldn't shoot because we couldn't see the enemy.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of it was artillery and gunfire. The enemy

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<v Speaker 2>was there, we couldn't see it before we got hit.

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<v Speaker 2>I was lucky. We had on a steel helmet, we

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<v Speaker 2>had on a shoulder gear, shoulder pack, we had her

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<v Speaker 2>combat boos, we had her rifle. And if the boat

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<v Speaker 2>got hit, if you were not aware of what was

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<v Speaker 2>going on and held on to the helmet and everything,

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<v Speaker 2>you would drowned. So if the boat got hit, we

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<v Speaker 2>would throw off our helmet. We dropped our gun to

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<v Speaker 2>save our lives if you him. And that's how a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of us got across. We got across with no ammunition,

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<v Speaker 2>with no rifle, with no steel helmet, because the weight

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<v Speaker 2>of all that equipment just pulled you right down.

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<v Speaker 1>So describe what it was like then to get to shore.

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<v Speaker 2>I couldn't swim, However, I was lucky my boat didn't

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<v Speaker 2>get hit. Oh, there were two friends of mine. Harry

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<v Speaker 2>Gody was my buddy, and from what I remember Harry

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<v Speaker 2>told me, I think I saw the action at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Harry got across and there was a GI was foundering

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<v Speaker 2>in the water. He needed help, and he jumped in

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<v Speaker 2>the water, swam out to the GI, pulled them ashore

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<v Speaker 2>and saved his life. And he got an award for

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<v Speaker 2>saving the life.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Harry Gody was combat. What you expected it

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<v Speaker 1>to be like No, it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was scary as healthia. It was a nineteen year old

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<v Speaker 2>pin and I'm there. And one of the things I

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<v Speaker 2>always said to myself, hurry, you can be killed. I've

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<v Speaker 2>thought of that often.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Ernie Moger, a US Army veteran of World War II.

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<v Speaker 1>He served in the seventy sixth Infantry Division. Survived the

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<v Speaker 1>harrowing crossing of the Tsar River, but was wounded three

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<v Speaker 1>months later, just before the US crossed the Rhine River.

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<v Speaker 1>Still to come, mister Moger's emotional return to where he

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<v Speaker 1>fought nearly eighty years ago, and he'll tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>three straight months of combat. But up next he tells

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<v Speaker 1>us about the day he was wounded and his days

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<v Speaker 1>of combat came to a close. I'm Greg Corumbus and

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<v Speaker 1>this is Veterans' Chronicles sixty seconds of Service.

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<v Speaker 3>is brought to you by Prevagen. Prevgen is the number

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<v Speaker 3>one pharmacist recommended memory support brand. You can find Prevagen

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<v Speaker 3>and the Vitamin Aisle in stores everywhere.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in

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<v Speaker 1>this edition is Ernie Moeger. He is a US Army

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<v Speaker 1>veteran of World War Two and a recipient of the

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<v Speaker 1>Purple Heart. Still to come. In this edition, mister Moger

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<v Speaker 1>will share the details of his very meaningful return to

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<v Speaker 1>where he fought and bled during the war. But right now,

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<v Speaker 1>he explains what was the most effective way to fight

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<v Speaker 1>against the Nazis. Where the US went after crossing the

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<v Speaker 1>Tsar River and how he was wounded.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the most effective ways for safety safes hit

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<v Speaker 2>the ground. I remember we used to take the butter

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<v Speaker 2>of our rifle and the way you hit the grounds,

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<v Speaker 2>you go down and used the butter of your rifle

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<v Speaker 2>to break the fall for you going down on your knees.

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<v Speaker 2>And it was amazing that how they trained us that

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<v Speaker 2>when you went down and hit that ground, the rifle

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<v Speaker 2>order my went this way. You were in a prone

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<v Speaker 2>position and you were ready to fire. And I did

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<v Speaker 2>that several times. I remember both went over my head.

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<v Speaker 2>I stayed down.

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<v Speaker 1>It was scary, believe me, it was scar so after

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<v Speaker 1>you crossed the Sour, Yes, what came next.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, after the Sour we moved. We kept on moving

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<v Speaker 2>through different towns. Several of the towns that I went through,

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<v Speaker 2>the army had already gone through and I came after them,

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<v Speaker 2>and the army leveled the town to the extent that

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<v Speaker 2>we could march through. We went through many, many towns,

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<v Speaker 2>many towns that way, so that we could advance rapidly,

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<v Speaker 2>which we did. And then we had we had these

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<v Speaker 2>bridges that we had to cross, and they were bridges

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<v Speaker 2>that were destroyed by the enemy, so Army gen engineers

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<v Speaker 2>came along and built upon tomb bridges so that we

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<v Speaker 2>could cross. Otherwise, the Germans destroyed all the other bridges,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's how we got across the bridges to different towns.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember when we went through a different town there

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<v Speaker 2>were Germans in the town and we would go into

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<v Speaker 2>the buildings looking for Germans to either take the imprisoner

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<v Speaker 2>or whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>So how long was it between when you crossed the

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<v Speaker 1>Sour River to the day you were wounded?

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<v Speaker 2>Around three months? I was in combat three months. We

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<v Speaker 2>were billeted in this building on the Rhine River. We

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<v Speaker 2>were getting ready to cross the Rhine River and I

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<v Speaker 2>was builded in that building and Harry Goldie was on

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<v Speaker 2>guard duty. It was my buddy again, and I went

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<v Speaker 2>out to relieve him from guard duty. So Harry and

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<v Speaker 2>I are talking, and before you note there was a

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<v Speaker 2>well that was the bullets that hit me. There was

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<v Speaker 2>a castle on the Rhine. I remembered as we crossed

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<v Speaker 2>or not, I didn't cross, I never might died across.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a castle on that river, and I'm sure

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<v Speaker 2>that the sniper was in that castle. The castle would

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<v Speaker 2>right here and I was right here upper mountain, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he fired up the mountain and he got

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<v Speaker 2>Harry in the leg. And I was standing behind Harry,

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<v Speaker 2>and the trajectory of the bullet was upward, and I

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<v Speaker 2>went through a care for his leg into my groin.

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<v Speaker 2>I went down. My steel helmet flew off. I dropped

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<v Speaker 2>my rifle. It was ironic that immediately I was not

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<v Speaker 2>in tained my body went numb. I knew I was hit.

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<v Speaker 2>I wasn't sure where I was at. And that numbers

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<v Speaker 2>state for quite a while. Had that bullet moved an

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<v Speaker 2>inch or so away, if the sniper had that, there's

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<v Speaker 2>a federal artery in your body. And I think that

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<v Speaker 2>bullet missed it by about a half inch. Had it

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<v Speaker 2>hit that federal artery, I wouldn't be here talking to you.

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<v Speaker 2>I would have died out of bled out right down

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<v Speaker 2>in the air. I didn't. They called for medic. The

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<v Speaker 2>medics came. It took a while. They came down the

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<v Speaker 2>hill to that building. I was leaning I U on

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<v Speaker 2>the Florida building. They picked me up, put me on

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<v Speaker 2>a stretcher. They took me up to the battalion aige

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<v Speaker 2>station where the doctor examined me, and he said, ooh,

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<v Speaker 2>you're unlucky GI. And that's when he explained to me

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<v Speaker 2>how close I was to death at that instant when

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<v Speaker 2>I bullet hit me. Then they took me from there

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<v Speaker 2>to uh another station where they addressed my wound, took

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<v Speaker 2>X rays and everything else and confirmed where the bullet

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<v Speaker 2>hit me. They addressed my wound and all and from

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<v Speaker 2>there I went to a hospital in France and I

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<v Speaker 2>was there for a while. Then after that I came home.

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<v Speaker 2>The the war was over for me, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Said, I so thankfully it missed your femeral artery. How

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<v Speaker 1>serious was the injury though.

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<v Speaker 2>Very sis. I was rehabilitated for quite a while. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember I couldn't get up the walk for quite a while.

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<v Speaker 2>I always laid in a position that was the least

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<v Speaker 2>amount of injury to me that I was a little

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<v Speaker 2>bit comfortable with. I couldn't straighten out my leg for

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<v Speaker 2>a while. And once I was able to straighten out

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<v Speaker 2>my leg, I think about six weeks or two months later,

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<v Speaker 2>I can straighten out my left leg. I was a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit better. I finally got up. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>was about a month before I could get up out

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<v Speaker 2>of the bed where I was wounded. After I got

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<v Speaker 2>up and I could walk a little bit, I think

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<v Speaker 2>I was close on my way home.

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<v Speaker 1>That's Ernie Muger, a US Army veteran of World War

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<v Speaker 1>Two who fought with the seventy sixth Infantry Division in

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<v Speaker 1>France and Germany. Still to come. In our conversation, mister

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<v Speaker 1>Moger reflects on his service and sacrifice. He also tells

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<v Speaker 1>us about his powerful trip back to where he fought

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<v Speaker 1>during the war, finding the grave of his dear friend

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<v Speaker 1>in what he said while standing there. But up next

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<v Speaker 1>we'll hear more of Moger's story of service and his

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<v Speaker 1>other combat experiences fighting town to town against the Nazis.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Greg Corumbus, and this is Veterans' Chronicles. This is

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<v Speaker 1>Veterans Chronicles. I'm Greg Corumbus. Our guest in this edition

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<v Speaker 1>is Ernie Moger. He's a US Army veteran of World

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<v Speaker 1>War II, fighting in the seventy sixth Infantry Division from

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<v Speaker 1>the crossing of the Tsar River until he was wounded

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<v Speaker 1>just before he was about to cross the Rhine River

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<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty five. In just a moment, mister Moger

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<v Speaker 1>takes us along as he revisits the places he fought

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<v Speaker 1>and finds the grave of a close friend who never

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<v Speaker 1>made it home. But we pick up the story with

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<v Speaker 1>Moger reflecting on the German sniper who wounded him and

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<v Speaker 1>ended his time in war.

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<v Speaker 2>The best of my knowledge, one shot. You were saying,

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<v Speaker 2>one shot, one kill. Well, I kept saying, you shot me,

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<v Speaker 2>but you didn't kill me.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not like there was consistent sniper fire happening.

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<v Speaker 2>No, because there was a Germany in that castle, and

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<v Speaker 2>I was building in this building with the rest of

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<v Speaker 2>my squad and what have you. I went out to

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<v Speaker 2>relieve Harry on guard duty and there was only one

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<v Speaker 2>shot fire, So I was out of the war. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of my outfit, I don't know how I'm

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<v Speaker 2>pure it went to cross the Rhine River into Germany.

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<v Speaker 2>I was not there because of my injury.

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<v Speaker 1>Now, that narrow miss of the of the artery means

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<v Speaker 1>you've had nearly eighty more years to live than if

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<v Speaker 1>the bullet had been slightly different. Do you think about that,

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<v Speaker 1>and if so, how do you think about that?

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<v Speaker 2>I certainly do, and how do I think about that?

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<v Speaker 2>The man upstairs, he governed he told me, hurry, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>with you. If you need help, ask me, And boy

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<v Speaker 2>did I ask him for help. You wouldn't believe it.

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<v Speaker 2>And he helped me. He helped me to survive. He

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<v Speaker 2>helped me to live to ninety eight years old, which

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<v Speaker 2>I am now thanks to him. If he calls me

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<v Speaker 2>today or tomorrow, what have you, I'm ready to go.

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<v Speaker 2>Of course, I've lived my life and I feel that

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<v Speaker 2>I was one of the fortunate ones to live all

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<v Speaker 2>these years when I lost my buddies. On the first day.

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<v Speaker 1>Of combat, Sir, you mentioned a moment ago that you

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<v Speaker 1>fought in about three months straight, yes, before being wounded. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>between that crossing of the Sour River and the day

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<v Speaker 1>that you were injured. Talk to me about the combat

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<v Speaker 1>that you experienced in between. What was that like?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, several times we were under German fire and one

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<v Speaker 2>thing that we learned in the army, and they taught us,

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<v Speaker 2>if there's an enemy out there, like a sniper, what

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<v Speaker 2>have you. My whole squad, in fact, the whole platoon

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<v Speaker 2>would stand up and take their rifle and all we

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<v Speaker 2>did we couldn't see the enemy, we would fire because

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<v Speaker 2>we knew that the enemy was there and if the

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<v Speaker 2>enemy was there, they would surely duck their heads. And

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<v Speaker 2>we took a lot of prisoners that way. Because you

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<v Speaker 2>figure out a line of men all firing at the

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<v Speaker 2>same time, you're not gonna wanna stand up, cause you'd

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<v Speaker 2>be dead. That was what what's called line of fire.

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<v Speaker 2>And we did that several times. We went through farms

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<v Speaker 2>where they had land mines. That was another thing we

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<v Speaker 2>had to endure. Now, what we had to do with

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<v Speaker 2>land mines, we were taught this. We would take our bayonet,

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<v Speaker 2>get on her hands and knees and probe the ground,

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<v Speaker 2>and all of a sudden you'd hit something. You say, oh, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>sure enough, it was a landmine. Then we would go

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<v Speaker 2>around it. But we would market so that the man

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<v Speaker 2>behind me is coming up and you can see that

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<v Speaker 2>market and say, oh, oh, there's a landmark there, and

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<v Speaker 2>he'd do the same thing and go around it. However,

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<v Speaker 2>when you're crawling or when you're walking and you don't

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<v Speaker 2>see that landmine, and I've seen it happen, you step

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<v Speaker 2>on it. The action of the landmine is going up

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<v Speaker 2>as you're standing and walking over it. And a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of men were killed that way. The burst of the

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<v Speaker 2>landmine was upward, and just picture yourself walking along and

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<v Speaker 2>all of a sudden the land mine goes off, and well,

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<v Speaker 2>the best particle of your body was lost.

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<v Speaker 1>And how frequent were those land mines?

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<v Speaker 2>Quite frequently, especially in the beginning when we first went

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<v Speaker 2>through Germany, well and actually in France, because I was

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<v Speaker 2>in France and Germany quite frequently. But we learned what

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<v Speaker 2>to do and if there was a way of avoiding it,

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<v Speaker 2>would we would go around the landmine. I think those

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<v Speaker 2>three incidents where we were told where the landlines were.

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<v Speaker 2>The first time they didn't because we were experienced it

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<v Speaker 2>by ourselves. Then after that they w w they we

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<v Speaker 2>would mark the land mine. So whoever came behind us

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00:24:33.119 --> 00:24:36.279
<v Speaker 2>were free and they they they knew that the landlines

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<v Speaker 2>were there, and they walked through cautiously and safely.

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<v Speaker 1>Now as you went from town to town, were there

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<v Speaker 1>were there separate battles at each town.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh we had the sniper was the worst one. Then

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<v Speaker 2>there was artillery. As I remember, most of the towns

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<v Speaker 2>were under fire. But when we liberated the town, maybe

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<v Speaker 2>a company before me liberated the town and it was safe.

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<v Speaker 2>Then we walked through that town. But if the town

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<v Speaker 2>was not liberated. We were ready for action because the

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<v Speaker 2>enemy was in the buildings and we were outside in

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<v Speaker 2>the field and we're advancing the town. They just could

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<v Speaker 2>see us and shoot us and kill us. It was

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<v Speaker 2>difficult for us to see the building and where they

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<v Speaker 2>were at the window. So there was a lot of that.

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<v Speaker 2>They had the advantage.

422
00:25:29.680 --> 00:25:32.519
<v Speaker 1>They definitely had the advantage. So how did you counter that?

423
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 1>How did you defeat them despite that advantage?

424
00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, most of the times we'd go around the buildings.

425
00:25:38.759 --> 00:25:42.400
<v Speaker 2>If there's enemy fire from a particular building, instead of

426
00:25:42.440 --> 00:25:46.960
<v Speaker 2>advancing for it, we'd go around and infiltrate through either

427
00:25:47.039 --> 00:25:49.680
<v Speaker 2>the side or go all the ways around the back.

428
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:52.079
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise you were a dead pigeon, believe me.

429
00:25:53.240 --> 00:25:56.799
<v Speaker 1>And then did you have to confront them and climb

430
00:25:56.839 --> 00:25:59.839
<v Speaker 1>stairs and that type of thing? Was it kind of

431
00:26:00.440 --> 00:26:02.279
<v Speaker 1>around corners as you fought them.

432
00:26:02.400 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, I took many prisoners. Fortunately were a group together. Well,

433
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.519
<v Speaker 2>there were human beings, and if they felt that they

434
00:26:11.559 --> 00:26:16.200
<v Speaker 2>were under the advantage, we would approach them and first thing,

435
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.480
<v Speaker 2>they dropped their rifle and threw their hands up, and

436
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.880
<v Speaker 2>that means surrender. I don't know how true this is,

437
00:26:23.519 --> 00:26:27.960
<v Speaker 2>but I heard of stories they threw their hands up.

438
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:33.279
<v Speaker 2>But there were some gew eyes would not take them prisoner,

439
00:26:33.480 --> 00:26:37.000
<v Speaker 2>and you know what would happen then? Oh, I took

440
00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:42.039
<v Speaker 2>several prisoners. There was an incident where I was dug in.

441
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:45.599
<v Speaker 2>I had a foxhole and I heard this line with

442
00:26:45.720 --> 00:26:48.279
<v Speaker 2>two There were two men talking and I was in

443
00:26:48.359 --> 00:26:52.000
<v Speaker 2>a foxhole. We got many men in the foxhole and

444
00:26:52.079 --> 00:26:56.079
<v Speaker 2>they're talking German. And I said to myself, oh, well,

445
00:26:56.119 --> 00:27:01.279
<v Speaker 2>white man talking, So I said halt and I forget

446
00:27:01.279 --> 00:27:03.039
<v Speaker 2>what the German word. World was?

447
00:27:03.519 --> 00:27:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Well up?

448
00:27:04.039 --> 00:27:07.039
<v Speaker 2>Want their arms? Believe me when I said ole, they

449
00:27:07.119 --> 00:27:10.640
<v Speaker 2>just stopped in. They dropped their rifle rifles and we

450
00:27:10.680 --> 00:27:14.279
<v Speaker 2>took them as po ws prisoners of war. And that

451
00:27:14.440 --> 00:27:18.000
<v Speaker 2>was a happy day from me, rather than be getting

452
00:27:18.000 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 2>shot of what have you?

453
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:21.319
<v Speaker 1>What did you do with them after you took them prisoner?

454
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.039
<v Speaker 2>After I took them prisoners, We took them down to

455
00:27:25.599 --> 00:27:29.640
<v Speaker 2>I forget what depot. It was for t interrogation In

456
00:27:29.680 --> 00:27:31.720
<v Speaker 2>other words, e w we W. I would turn them

457
00:27:31.759 --> 00:27:35.680
<v Speaker 2>over to other GI's. Okay, there were per POW's and

458
00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:38.680
<v Speaker 2>they w W. They was questioning him to get all

459
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:41.880
<v Speaker 2>the information that they can. Where did they come from?

460
00:27:41.960 --> 00:27:44.720
<v Speaker 2>Did they come from a German army or platoon or

461
00:27:44.799 --> 00:27:48.759
<v Speaker 2>what have you? Where's the enemy? Uh, that was very

462
00:27:48.799 --> 00:27:53.240
<v Speaker 2>helpful because they were afraid and they would do all

463
00:27:53.359 --> 00:27:56.359
<v Speaker 2>the information that will be w We were two scouts

464
00:27:56.400 --> 00:27:59.000
<v Speaker 2>of what have you? And behind us was my platoon,

465
00:27:59.160 --> 00:28:02.559
<v Speaker 2>my German place. So we got the scouts. Now, when

466
00:28:02.599 --> 00:28:04.880
<v Speaker 2>you get the scouts, they're in front of the platoon

467
00:28:05.000 --> 00:28:07.480
<v Speaker 2>of what have you? You get those scouts and get

468
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:11.799
<v Speaker 2>him out of the way before the soldiers behind them

469
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.039
<v Speaker 2>get to know that their outfits was behind them. And

470
00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.920
<v Speaker 2>what you do is get the two gis out of

471
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:22.759
<v Speaker 2>the way, try to make it as quiet as let

472
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:25.720
<v Speaker 2>the outs, the German offit move up. Then we will

473
00:28:25.759 --> 00:28:29.000
<v Speaker 2>take them prisoners. Of course they didn't know we're there.

474
00:28:29.480 --> 00:28:33.000
<v Speaker 1>That's fascinating, absolutely fascinating. How did your friend do, the

475
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:35.559
<v Speaker 1>one that you were relieving on guard duty who was

476
00:28:35.599 --> 00:28:37.319
<v Speaker 1>shot in the leg. Did he make it?

477
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:40.119
<v Speaker 2>Yes, he did. In fact, Harry just died about two

478
00:28:40.200 --> 00:28:44.200
<v Speaker 2>years ago. Oh wow, we were buddies. He was from

479
00:28:44.200 --> 00:28:48.359
<v Speaker 2>the state of Washington. Corresponded with him for many many years.

480
00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:52.160
<v Speaker 2>If you asked me to write the correct question, I

481
00:28:52.200 --> 00:28:54.960
<v Speaker 2>will tell you a little bit more about Harry and myself.

482
00:28:55.200 --> 00:28:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Well, How did you get to meet Harry and how

483
00:28:57.079 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 1>did you become close?

484
00:28:58.160 --> 00:29:01.599
<v Speaker 2>I met him in basic training and we just paid

485
00:29:01.640 --> 00:29:04.440
<v Speaker 2>it off together. We knew what it was all about.

486
00:29:05.079 --> 00:29:08.519
<v Speaker 2>When I first went in the army and they gave

487
00:29:08.519 --> 00:29:15.759
<v Speaker 2>me my uniform, I was eighteen. I'm laughing now. I

488
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:21.400
<v Speaker 2>took the attitude man, I got beautiful uniform here. I

489
00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:25.319
<v Speaker 2>was a kid. I was eighteen and nineteen, but I

490
00:29:25.400 --> 00:29:29.359
<v Speaker 2>was proud of it. And then when I got overseas,

491
00:29:30.319 --> 00:29:33.039
<v Speaker 2>the words I said was what the hell am I

492
00:29:33.119 --> 00:29:35.920
<v Speaker 2>doing here? I can get killed. But in the beginning

493
00:29:35.920 --> 00:29:38.240
<v Speaker 2>in basic treatom when I got my uniform, I'm so

494
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:41.440
<v Speaker 2>proud of it, not realizing what was ahead of me.

495
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:43.559
<v Speaker 1>And how did he react to it all?

496
00:29:43.799 --> 00:29:47.839
<v Speaker 2>Harry was the same way. Harry was wounded. We were

497
00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:51.920
<v Speaker 2>both wounded serious enough that the war was over for us,

498
00:29:52.279 --> 00:29:54.880
<v Speaker 2>and we both came home and I met him after

499
00:29:54.880 --> 00:29:57.400
<v Speaker 2>the war. He was in the Washington state and we

500
00:29:57.400 --> 00:30:00.480
<v Speaker 2>met New Jerseys together, Harry and I. I had some

501
00:30:00.519 --> 00:30:03.279
<v Speaker 2>still pictures of Harry and I shaking hands and hugging

502
00:30:03.319 --> 00:30:06.079
<v Speaker 2>each other after the war. After we met again.

503
00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 1>How did you hear that the war had ended?

504
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>Probably on the radio other than that. I don't recall.

505
00:30:12.599 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 1>Were you back home by then or still in Europe? Oh?

506
00:30:14.960 --> 00:30:16.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I was home by then.

507
00:30:16.720 --> 00:30:20.039
<v Speaker 1>Last year you had the chance to return to Europe

508
00:30:20.759 --> 00:30:23.920
<v Speaker 1>and visit the graves of people you fought alongside, including

509
00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 1>your friend Joey Guloh. Yes, what was that like? I've

510
00:30:28.039 --> 00:30:30.319
<v Speaker 1>seen the video of you saluting his grave.

511
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:36.759
<v Speaker 2>You have no eyes ere I knocked down, and I said, Joey,

512
00:30:36.839 --> 00:30:43.519
<v Speaker 2>just as Ernie. We were basic training together, we were

513
00:30:43.519 --> 00:30:48.160
<v Speaker 2>in the war together, and Joey, I remember first day

514
00:30:48.200 --> 00:30:51.680
<v Speaker 2>in combat. You never made it across.

515
00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:52.880
<v Speaker 1>I was lucky.

516
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:57.759
<v Speaker 2>I made it acrosse. And I said, I'm here kneeling

517
00:30:58.440 --> 00:31:02.559
<v Speaker 2>for into you that you were wound. Instance the world

518
00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:08.000
<v Speaker 2>was over for him, but we're dear friends again. I

519
00:31:08.079 --> 00:31:12.079
<v Speaker 2>thank god that I made it across. He didn't, and

520
00:31:12.119 --> 00:31:20.480
<v Speaker 2>I continued to fight as a young man. Scared. Damn right,

521
00:31:20.519 --> 00:31:25.079
<v Speaker 2>I was scared. Did I want to die?

522
00:31:25.440 --> 00:31:25.640
<v Speaker 1>No?

523
00:31:25.720 --> 00:31:29.000
<v Speaker 2>I didn't want to die. I was sent there for

524
00:31:29.039 --> 00:31:35.480
<v Speaker 2>a reason, and the reason was my country. My country

525
00:31:35.519 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>called upon me. They needed help, and I was young

526
00:31:41.079 --> 00:31:44.519
<v Speaker 2>enough to help them, and I did help them. My

527
00:31:44.599 --> 00:31:46.759
<v Speaker 2>country's been good to me all these years since I

528
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:51.240
<v Speaker 2>was wounded. They took care of me my wound for many,

529
00:31:51.319 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 2>many years. But the United States Army Medical Corps never

530
00:31:56.839 --> 00:32:00.480
<v Speaker 2>turned their back on me. They knew what I did,

531
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:04.720
<v Speaker 2>and they were They said to themselves, he did all

532
00:32:04.759 --> 00:32:08.359
<v Speaker 2>this at a young age. Well, we're gonna do as

533
00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:11.039
<v Speaker 2>much as we can to help him and get him

534
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:13.279
<v Speaker 2>physically fit for civilian life.

535
00:32:13.559 --> 00:32:18.559
<v Speaker 1>In addition to what you described at Joey Gulo's grave, yes,

536
00:32:19.559 --> 00:32:22.119
<v Speaker 1>what else stood out to you from the visit to

537
00:32:22.119 --> 00:32:25.039
<v Speaker 1>that cemetery or your overall visit to Europe.

538
00:32:26.039 --> 00:32:30.480
<v Speaker 2>When I stood by Joey's grave, Jojie greave was a

539
00:32:30.519 --> 00:32:33.880
<v Speaker 2>single grade. As I stood up and I looked around,

540
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:41.880
<v Speaker 2>I I tell you it was unbelievable. That was Joey's grave.

541
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:46.680
<v Speaker 2>In fact, I saw my General General Patton's grave. His

542
00:32:46.839 --> 00:32:51.960
<v Speaker 2>graver was at the head of the cemetery, d General

543
00:32:52.039 --> 00:32:55.640
<v Speaker 2>George S. Patten Uh. He was a general of the

544
00:32:55.680 --> 00:32:59.799
<v Speaker 2>seventy sixth Division, which I was a part of. And

545
00:32:59.839 --> 00:33:02.839
<v Speaker 2>there was Joey. On the first day of combat, there

546
00:33:02.920 --> 00:33:06.720
<v Speaker 2>was his grave, Joey Gulo with his Army saval number

547
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.640
<v Speaker 2>on it. I now down there and I prayed, and

548
00:33:09.680 --> 00:33:19.279
<v Speaker 2>I said to Joey, there's thousands of white markers crosses.

549
00:33:20.039 --> 00:33:23.519
<v Speaker 2>You wouldn't believe you stand there, no matter how far

550
00:33:23.599 --> 00:33:27.160
<v Speaker 2>you looked straight ahead. If you look to the left,

551
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:32.799
<v Speaker 2>you look to the right, nothing but graves. So my

552
00:33:33.000 --> 00:33:38.720
<v Speaker 2>country sent a lot of Gis there, and they went

553
00:33:38.759 --> 00:33:42.119
<v Speaker 2>there to say my country. I know that before they

554
00:33:42.160 --> 00:33:46.240
<v Speaker 2>came and bombed our country, they all gave their lives.

555
00:33:47.559 --> 00:33:52.880
<v Speaker 2>And there's a favorite saying of mine, and please pay attention.

556
00:33:53.119 --> 00:33:58.839
<v Speaker 2>I want to say it correctly. All gave some some

557
00:33:59.440 --> 00:34:04.440
<v Speaker 2>gave or do you understand that? And that been with

558
00:34:04.519 --> 00:34:07.039
<v Speaker 2>me all my life. And I looked back on these

559
00:34:07.079 --> 00:34:12.239
<v Speaker 2>grades and I said, you gave, you gave all, you

560
00:34:12.320 --> 00:34:12.960
<v Speaker 2>gave your life.

561
00:34:13.360 --> 00:34:15.679
<v Speaker 1>What are you most proud of from your service?

562
00:34:16.519 --> 00:34:21.880
<v Speaker 2>My country called for me, and it was honored for

563
00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:27.280
<v Speaker 2>me to go. Did I know where I was going? Yes?

564
00:34:27.320 --> 00:34:33.280
<v Speaker 2>I did. The war was on before me. Many Geniis

565
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:38.559
<v Speaker 2>were killed, and now they called upon me. I knew

566
00:34:38.599 --> 00:34:41.679
<v Speaker 2>that I was going into the same aspect of what

567
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:47.400
<v Speaker 2>they went through. They fought for their country, They died

568
00:34:47.440 --> 00:34:51.320
<v Speaker 2>for their country. And I said, here I am, and

569
00:34:51.559 --> 00:34:54.639
<v Speaker 2>I and I repeated I s said to the Lord,

570
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.280
<v Speaker 2>save me if you can.

571
00:34:58.360 --> 00:34:58.480
<v Speaker 1>Uh.

572
00:34:59.440 --> 00:35:04.079
<v Speaker 2>I was young, I wanted to live, and he did

573
00:35:04.119 --> 00:35:08.480
<v Speaker 2>save me. I guess I'm one of the chosen ones

574
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:14.639
<v Speaker 2>that survived. You have no idea again, how many cemeteries.

575
00:35:14.800 --> 00:35:19.400
<v Speaker 2>There's not only one cemetery. There's several cemeteries with GI's

576
00:35:21.280 --> 00:35:26.360
<v Speaker 2>young men, middle aged men, and even older men that

577
00:35:26.480 --> 00:35:32.480
<v Speaker 2>never came home. It kept our country free. I remember

578
00:35:32.519 --> 00:35:37.400
<v Speaker 2>that we did what we had to do, and I did.

579
00:35:37.280 --> 00:35:40.000
<v Speaker 1>What I had to do well, mister Muger, I thank

580
00:35:40.039 --> 00:35:42.719
<v Speaker 1>you so much for your patriotism. I thank you for

581
00:35:43.480 --> 00:35:45.400
<v Speaker 1>your time with us today, and I thank you most

582
00:35:45.440 --> 00:35:47.320
<v Speaker 1>of all for your service to our country.

583
00:35:47.840 --> 00:35:51.519
<v Speaker 2>Thank you very much. I appreciate men like you pursuing

584
00:35:51.760 --> 00:35:54.440
<v Speaker 2>all o the men like me to tell their story

585
00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:58.199
<v Speaker 2>so that other people can hear it and listen to

586
00:35:58.239 --> 00:36:02.360
<v Speaker 2>it and say, you know, war as hell. If we

587
00:36:02.400 --> 00:36:06.679
<v Speaker 2>can avoid war, we should. Thank you very much.

588
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.960
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, sir. Ernie Muger is a US Army veteran

589
00:36:10.000 --> 00:36:12.519
<v Speaker 1>of World War Two. He served with the seventy six

590
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.480
<v Speaker 1>Infantry Division in early nineteen forty five as across the

591
00:36:16.519 --> 00:36:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Sigfried Line. He was wounded and evacuated just before his

592
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:23.719
<v Speaker 1>unit crossed the Rhine River. I'm Greg Corumbus and this

593
00:36:24.039 --> 00:36:37.880
<v Speaker 1>is Veterans Chronicles. Hi, this is Greg Corumbus and thanks

594
00:36:37.920 --> 00:36:41.639
<v Speaker 1>for listening to Veterans Chronicles, a presentation of the American

595
00:36:41.719 --> 00:36:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Veterans Center. For more information, please visit American Veteranscenter dot org.

596
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:50.920
<v Speaker 1>You can also follow the American Veterans Center on Facebook

597
00:36:51.159 --> 00:36:55.559
<v Speaker 1>and on Twitter. We're at AVC update. Subscribe to the

598
00:36:55.599 --> 00:36:59.400
<v Speaker 1>American Veterans Center YouTube channel for full oral histories and

599
00:36:59.519 --> 00:37:03.159
<v Speaker 1>special features, and of course please subscribe to the Veterans

600
00:37:03.239 --> 00:37:08.000
<v Speaker 1>Chronicles podcast wherever you get your podcasts. Thanks again for listening,

601
00:37:08.239 --> 00:37:11.159
<v Speaker 1>and please join us next time for Veterans Chronicles