Speaker 1: I'm very pleased that this live stream has been such
Speaker 1: a success. I figured it would be. I think I
Speaker 1: got reasonably good instincts for what kinda content is gonna
Speaker 1: pop and what our cadre is gonna enjoy and find worthwhile,
Speaker 1: you know, and plus a major catalyst with you people's
Speaker 1: asking me to, you know, do a live stream. But nonetheless,
Speaker 1: I'm very humble in Stokes that week after week people
Speaker 1: show up to participate.
Speaker 2: We're still waiting on Pete.
Speaker 1: So let's all make fun of him and talk shit
Speaker 1: about what a jibbroni he is for not being here.
Speaker 2: I'm just kidding. Let's not do that.
Speaker 1: We will Pete a great debt of honor, and he's
Speaker 1: a dear friend, both him and Burden. I will not
Speaker 1: allow them to be slighted or insulted by lesser men,
Speaker 1: because I owe both of them. I pay a fair
Speaker 1: amount of attention to British politics, not just because I've
Speaker 1: always had a biting interest in Ulster and things, and
Speaker 1: also England and Scotland, oh on my own racial heritage,
Speaker 1: but my dad wrote his dissertation on British Party politics
Speaker 1: and specifically how it impacted Cold War policy and things.
Speaker 1: You know, he became something of an expert. They were
Speaker 1: in and my folks lived there for a long time. Pet, Yo, what's.
Speaker 2: Up a bunch of the stuff.
Speaker 1: I'm not going to name names, but they they were
Speaker 1: calling you with Jabroni and saying really out of pocket things.
Speaker 3: I think that was actually you, because when you use
Speaker 3: that word and chat so many times.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, they was.
Speaker 3: I think I mean the chief Jabe Broni Carl isn't here.
Speaker 3: It would be nice if if Jae Browni Carl was here.
Speaker 1: He's got a new Uh he's got a new job,
Speaker 1: like Carla to get a new job because they took
Speaker 1: his job. But uh he uh doge took his job?
Speaker 3: Oh what was that?
Speaker 2: Was took my job?
Speaker 1: But uh in any event, Uh, he's actually got us.
Speaker 1: Actually got a semi legit excuse for not being able
Speaker 1: to participate. I was gonna, I'm I'm recording mind phaser
Speaker 1: content before I leave for Virginia. I was gonna do
Speaker 1: it today with our homie Andy. But then I realized
Speaker 1: I always fucked this up because of the time change
Speaker 1: on the West Coast. I realized that conflicted with our
Speaker 1: live stream. So I fell like an idiot. But so
Speaker 1: we're gonna do it tomorrow. But you know, he uh,
Speaker 1: I still intend to start doing either a bi weekly
Speaker 1: or once monthly pod with both of them guys, or
Speaker 1: or a stream with a discreet focus on genuine popular
Speaker 1: culture stuff, you know, because that's especially Andy's very much
Speaker 1: sort of in the midst of that, and that's important
Speaker 1: to partisan activity.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: It was a big Sam Francis point, but also even
Speaker 1: guys a lot more radical in Sam Francis, that's what
Speaker 1: they were up on, you know. And Ian Stewart was
Speaker 1: a craftier guy than people credited him. I mean, I
Speaker 1: like rock and roll, and I like rockins Communism, and
Speaker 1: I you all got high school, there was one shop
Speaker 1: where you could buy like Rockins Communism records, and you
Speaker 1: know they'd have screwdriver tapes and anyp's and stuff. But
Speaker 1: at point being, I always liked the installed and all
Speaker 1: of that. But even if you're not into his jams,
Speaker 1: you know he was. He was craftier than people think, man,
Speaker 1: and that was his whole point point is like, look,
Speaker 1: you know, youth has to quit system culture and we
Speaker 1: got to build our own thing.
Speaker 2: And there's a reason why.
Speaker 1: There's a reason why system culture is always trying to
Speaker 1: imitate the street, you know, because it's a counterfeit iteration
Speaker 1: of something that is, you know, both a rallying point
Speaker 1: and a a sociological mechanism of building, of Cadri building.
Speaker 1: But before you joined us, and thanks, thanks again for
Speaker 1: doing this with me, of course, I was talking about
Speaker 1: the United Kingdom, you know, and like my folks lived
Speaker 1: there for a lot of years, you know, and my
Speaker 1: mom fit in there very well. Like my dad always
Speaker 1: made the point, like my dad always had like respect
Speaker 1: for the English, but he also like looked at him
Speaker 1: as kind of like silly feminine motherfuckers. I can tell
Speaker 1: us by the way he talks, because uh, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: my dad's like an okie from the Los Angeles street
Speaker 1: at base, no matter how how a polished he is.
Speaker 1: But like my mom fit in with like society, Scottish
Speaker 1: and English ladies. She was like a big hit with them.
Speaker 1: But you know, and my my folks were there like
Speaker 1: right when the troubles kicked off and stuff. So I
Speaker 1: grow in a very like Anglophone quote of the household.
Speaker 1: What any event, you know, Like my dad's pH d
Speaker 1: thesis was on parliamentary politics and Britain, particularly how it
Speaker 1: impacted the Cold War situation of stuff.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: So I've always had an interest in the UK, and
Speaker 1: I mean to this day, and I was surprised how
Speaker 1: the media was actually being pretty softball about about King Charles.
Speaker 1: That motherfucker's got mony python character. He's just complete goof
Speaker 1: and like they used to really like riff on him
Speaker 1: for being like a jag off, but now they're acting
Speaker 1: like he's uh now they're acting like some great statesman
Speaker 1: or something, or I mean and in America too, Like
Speaker 1: I I don't understand it, man, because uh, I actually
Speaker 1: heard a couple of the girls at the Landmark and
Speaker 1: he was like, I mean they're women, They're like, they're
Speaker 1: not girls, but I mean I'm old so but these
Speaker 1: are ladies like in their late twenties and early thirties,
Speaker 1: and they were like talking about the royals in King
Speaker 1: Charles like that was just like blue haired old women
Speaker 1: were into that. But I mean, I guess it's you know,
Speaker 1: like like females get into that.
Speaker 2: I'm not.
Speaker 3: Was your dad's book Liberal Politics and England.
Speaker 1: Briton, Yeah, it's one of them, but that was that
Speaker 1: was that was his thesis that got turned into a book,
Speaker 1: and he he identified as schismatic tendency within the within
Speaker 1: the Tory Party, and he basically predicted Thatcherism because he
Speaker 1: said that, you know, increasing that's the cold as the
Speaker 1: tot ended. I mean he was writing like years before
Speaker 1: his has happened. But I guess they ended there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a right word shift and terms of cold war
Speaker 1: hawks within the party. And then he said that, you know,
Speaker 1: the Liberal Party is going to become a spoiler element.
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting like somebody came to pass. Some
Speaker 1: of it didn't, but the overall trend was something identified.
Speaker 1: But I was on this tip lately because I uh,
Speaker 1: you know the one Threads it was it was like
Speaker 1: the UK counterpart to the Day After, except it came
Speaker 1: out before. I think it came out in eighty four.
Speaker 1: The day after it came out in eighty five. You
Speaker 1: ever seen Threads. I don't think it's a pretty horrific movie.
Speaker 1: What it's about is it's about a nuclear war between
Speaker 1: NATO and Warsaw Pacts Circle nineteen eight, you know able
Speaker 1: Archer era, and the focus is on this city at Sheffield,
Speaker 1: and I think something like eighty megatons fall in the UK.
Speaker 1: So the UK is just obliterated, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: unlike I make the point in my book that there
Speaker 1: was always a gross dishonesty in the public conversation about
Speaker 1: nuclear war in this country, Like mutually sure destruction is nonsense.
Speaker 1: And this idea that you know, there's no victory condition
Speaker 1: in nuclear war is nonsense. The whole Carl Sagan paradigm
Speaker 1: is nonsense. However, the UK could not have survived a
Speaker 1: nuclear war. They just couldn't. So threads. Obviously things are
Speaker 1: more critical than and you know, the UK played a
Speaker 1: strategically really significant role in the Cold War, like I
Speaker 1: think we talked about the last week, you know, the
Speaker 1: Greenland Iceland UK Gap, a song about this with Raging Mandrel.
Speaker 1: You know, the basically for Soviet for Soviet SLBM platforms
Speaker 1: to break out into the open ocean, they had to
Speaker 1: shoot the Greenland Greenland, Iceland UK gap otherwise they boxed
Speaker 1: then and those subs had to be able to reach
Speaker 1: striking range of the Connell. The Uited States, like Typhoon
Speaker 1: class subs could have just you know, they could have
Speaker 1: sat under the ice in Antarctica and they could have
Speaker 1: shot their payload and hit conne the United States. But
Speaker 1: for a true to truly wreck the continent, they need
Speaker 1: to be able to break out in the open ocean.
Speaker 1: And plus they also have to knock out obviously enemy platforms.
Speaker 1: So an event of a general nuclear war, if your
Speaker 1: warsaw pack, you're gonna want to knock out the United
Speaker 1: Kingdom immediately. And the best way to do that is
Speaker 1: the like shoves as twenties up their ass and until everybody,
Speaker 1: you know, just to be sure. And Powell made that point.
Speaker 1: Powell was wrong on some things, he was right on
Speaker 1: a lot of other things. And I got big respect
Speaker 1: for him because he was he was the only real
Speaker 1: champion that the people have all stirhead you know in
Speaker 1: in Downing Street with with access to Downing Street. Rather
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not talking about one off, uh you know,
Speaker 1: polemicist and and real where I was just like Paisley
Speaker 1: who could insane with their way into coalition governments and
Speaker 1: and and the squeeze concessions out.
Speaker 2: I mean, he he was.
Speaker 1: He was a guy who actually a clout, you know
Speaker 1: with the City of London and stuff. But uh, you know,
Speaker 1: he made the point that you know, the the UK
Speaker 1: basically is uh is acting as is acting as a
Speaker 1: suicide pawn in in the Cold War. And you know,
Speaker 1: the nuclear the nuclear deterrent of the UK was a
Speaker 1: deterrent to name only because it's it's it's not as
Speaker 1: if there was anything approaching parody of the Warsaw Pact.
Speaker 1: But also you know, it's why why are we gonna
Speaker 1: die for? Why why are we gonna kill off our
Speaker 1: race for the sake of you know, the the United
Speaker 1: States seeking out of victory and evented general warfare. I
Speaker 1: think it was right, of course, but it uh, the
Speaker 1: so this was a big deal, and like the UK
Speaker 1: disarmament movement was in fact deeply funded by Warsaw Pact.
Speaker 1: Like I'm not saying that. I mean, these people were
Speaker 1: kind of pieced like lefties, but I think a lot
Speaker 1: of them their heart was in the right place. They
Speaker 1: weren't like, they weren't like shit bag race trader wokies
Speaker 1: or something. I mean some of them were, but some
Speaker 1: of them weren't. But uh, you know, the the the
Speaker 1: Soviets were incessantly trying to flip the political culture of
Speaker 1: the UK, and uh, I'd say in part they did.
Speaker 1: Man like the Cambridge five. Uh, it was pretty nuts,
Speaker 1: you know, and there was no comparable circumstance that occurred
Speaker 1: in America or the bundes Republic and the West Germans
Speaker 1: who defected they had it was they hit a different sensibility,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: But uh that that book, the Fourth Protocol, I think
Speaker 1: that's Frederic Forrest. I get him, I get him confused
Speaker 1: with John McCurry. You know, Frederick Forsyth wrote The Dogs
Speaker 1: of War, which is an awesome book. John McCurry wrote
Speaker 1: a Tinker sailor, soldier spy. But the Fourth Protocol, Uh,
Speaker 1: it's all about Kim Philby. I mean, it's all it's
Speaker 1: it's it's it's a it's a cold war thriller kind
Speaker 1: of book. And the Fourth Protocol I won't bored with
Speaker 1: the details, but it's supposedly the secret protocol relating the
Speaker 1: you know, an unwritten convention relating the nuclear war and
Speaker 1: what sorts of platforms can be deployed. But uh, Kim
Speaker 1: Philby is a is a character in the book, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's interesting and uh one of the one aspect
Speaker 1: of the book is that, uh there's this cell within
Speaker 1: the Labor Party who are basically hardline Stalinists, and they're
Speaker 1: they're there a client element of the Kremlin, you know,
Speaker 1: and uh, there's this one guy they're grooming for to
Speaker 1: be prime minister, you know. And the idea is that ultimately, uh, ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know, the UK can be flipped as a communist country.
Speaker 1: And I think meanwhile too, the same element there. Uh,
Speaker 1: they've they've radicalized this this uh, this schismatic faction of
Speaker 1: the pro provisional IRA who are still hardline Marxist Leninists,
Speaker 1: and they're plotting like mass terror attacks in London as
Speaker 1: attention strategy. It's it's actually kind of an interesting book
Speaker 1: back when that whole genre was popular by fail anything writers.
Speaker 1: Like now it's just like now, let's say, it's just
Speaker 1: like faggot like monkey faced idiots like like Pete hegg
Speaker 1: sets and butt buddies with names like how it's r
Speaker 1: Thor and it's like, you know, it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: Captain America has to stop the New Holocaust because it's
Speaker 1: Lomo Fishes are a breeding Nazi super soldiers to exterminate
Speaker 1: every Jewish person and make butt plugs illegal, you know,
Speaker 1: and and then like if that happens, uh, they'll also
Speaker 1: going to like release like a strain of super age
Speaker 1: that will like kill Pete hagg Seth and everyone.
Speaker 2: Else in the bath house.
Speaker 1: But back in the day, like there's actually some cool
Speaker 1: techno thrillers. And I stayed by Tom Klancy actually being
Speaker 1: a good dude. Like he wrote some dumb shit, but
Speaker 1: he wrote some really good stuff too, Like Red Storm
Speaker 1: Rising is fucking awesome. I've brought October is awesome. The
Speaker 1: Cardinal the Kremlin is pretty interesting. And also, you know,
Speaker 1: he died fairly young. He's like one of those dudes.
Speaker 1: I'm not being flippant, but he's one of those guys
Speaker 1: you get basically his help a looking at him. He
Speaker 1: at any moment, he's gonna dive a heart attack.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: He was like, he's like a slightly overweight guy who
Speaker 1: like spent a lot of time in office cheer and
Speaker 1: like was really into esoteric navel trivia. It's like that
Speaker 1: guy's gonna dive a heart attack. Yeah, the exception of
Speaker 1: that rule was John Madden, but John Madden was like immortal.
Speaker 1: But in any event, you know Clancy uh after uh
Speaker 1: September eleventh, they were trying to corral him as as
Speaker 1: a one of their medium mouthpieces, like they did Giuliani.
Speaker 1: You know, that's back when people liked Giuliani. Like now
Speaker 1: summer reason everybody hates him. Like I never really liked Giuliani,
Speaker 1: but I don't understand why liked. People literally hate his ass.
Speaker 1: But uh, they're trying to coach. He's like a greasy
Speaker 1: Diego vampire. Yeah, he's not aged well and uh he's
Speaker 1: I always thought he was a creepy guy. And his
Speaker 1: father actually was you know he's now he's a Sicilian Albanian,
Speaker 1: so he's like he's like two layers of fucking shit
Speaker 1: eight ball, But his dad was you know, his dad
Speaker 1: was a was a mafia associate who did dirt in
Speaker 1: the street, which is one reason why Giuliani became like
Speaker 1: mister super cop as a state's attorney. I mean, the
Speaker 1: Gambino family and they're still running ship. You know, he
Speaker 1: had a contract on him. Like the guy is not
Speaker 1: a pussy. I mean he you know that wasn't a joke.
Speaker 3: Remember when we were kids and and Mario Cuomo was
Speaker 3: governor in New York and they interviewed him and he
Speaker 3: said the mafia doesn't exist.
Speaker 2: That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like what are you doing? Yeah, yeah, yeah, what's
Speaker 1: all there too? Like me, that was like in the
Speaker 1: days too, like when a when a when mob guys
Speaker 1: were like more Seveille than heads of state, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like, look man, that that went out with
Speaker 1: that went out with Joe Volacci. But uh no, but uh,
Speaker 1: they were trying to poach Tom Clancy to you know,
Speaker 1: be some cheerleader for the for the war effort. He
Speaker 1: wouldn't do it, you know, And so he became personed
Speaker 1: on Grada because he's like this is a terrible He's
Speaker 1: like that this distriggity frame or makes no sense. This
Speaker 1: is a terrible idea. Nine to eleven was entirely predictable.
Speaker 1: And uh, why why are you invading Afghanistan? Why does
Speaker 1: that mean we should invade Florida to because they provided
Speaker 1: aid and comfort the tear. I mean, you know, so
Speaker 1: he he did the right thing. And I maintain Red
Speaker 1: Storm Rising, uh the way that that the setup, I
Speaker 1: I thought it was too techno thriller ish I because
Speaker 1: you know, in Red Storm Rising there's these moonshot bean.
Speaker 1: Uh they blow up, Uh they they blow up this
Speaker 1: pipeline in Kazakhstan and that that spends the Soviet economy,
Speaker 1: which is you know, teetering on the brink of collapse anyway,
Speaker 1: into into a genuine crisis. And this guy who's obviously
Speaker 1: supposed to be a standard for Ustinov, he basically puts
Speaker 1: it to the pullet throw that look like we an
Speaker 1: event of war. You know, we we can't sustain in
Speaker 1: operational capability, you know, long enough to to reach the Atlantic,
Speaker 1: let alone the Rhine. You know, we we've got to
Speaker 1: strike now. Basically, so their big plan is to stage
Speaker 1: they stage another terrorist attack, which was the false flag,
Speaker 1: where they plant a bomb in the supreme Soviet I think,
Speaker 1: and and blow up a bunch of their own people,
Speaker 1: which is actually some of the Russians might might do.
Speaker 2: But then.
Speaker 1: You know, they uh, they used it the catalyst for
Speaker 1: a general push in the Middle East, you know, and
Speaker 1: replenish their strategic oil reserves, you know, and then assault
Speaker 1: across the inner German border, you know, and the war
Speaker 1: doesn't go nuclear because cooler edge prevail. But there's a
Speaker 1: the interplay of the weapons systems which were then cutting edge,
Speaker 1: you know, circing eighty five. It's well written, an interesting
Speaker 1: A couple years before that this guy damned Hackett. I
Speaker 1: think it's Sir Edward Hackett. I think he was this
Speaker 1: UK general and he wrote a book called the Third
Speaker 1: World War. But he wrote it in such a way
Speaker 1: that I can't remember that. This is a literary device
Speaker 1: that I can't remember the term for it. But it's
Speaker 1: written as if it's a real event that's happening. So
Speaker 1: it's like news dispatches and things like that you can
Speaker 1: develop like a conceptual picture. And like after ACTRA reports
Speaker 1: of NATO fighting, warsaw packed and then there was a
Speaker 1: follow up called World it was just called World War three,
Speaker 1: and then it was World War three the Untold story,
Speaker 1: which is sort of like this addendum where at you know,
Speaker 1: like company a battalion level, there's a British and West
Speaker 1: German and American, uh, you know, like infantry and armored
Speaker 1: commanders like were lang was happening. I thought it was
Speaker 1: cool when I was a kid. It was interesting because
Speaker 1: the British Army in those days produced a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of real serious military thinkers. You know they
Speaker 1: hearge Frank Kitson admirer. Like I'm not saying Kitsten is
Speaker 1: like a good man. You should like him, and I
Speaker 1: know that our Irish friends, I'm gonna think I'm I'm
Speaker 1: trying to be inflammatory.
Speaker 2: I'm not at all. Kits and.
Speaker 1: Kitson understood asymmetrical and counter surtaerty warfare and in a
Speaker 1: way that I don't think any I don't know there's
Speaker 1: any us chiropart tool, so maybe Hackworth, but even that's
Speaker 1: imperfect of comparison. But yeah, I uh, I uh, I
Speaker 1: maintain that clients.
Speaker 2: He was one of the one of the good guys.
Speaker 1: There's something I lost, a thought that I had, I
Speaker 1: wanted to raise something I hate fucking hate it when
Speaker 1: it happens.
Speaker 2: I uh oh the yeah, the the case on episode
Speaker 2: seems to be popping. Man.
Speaker 1: People haven't given me a lot of props on it.
Speaker 1: It's good, excellent, Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: I'm so. I'm better better today. I might have been
Speaker 1: better the last couple of days, but I I was
Speaker 1: still fighting some fatigue, man, So forgive me for not
Speaker 1: going for a full hour. But yeah, we'll do we'll
Speaker 1: do a follow up when we when we record again,
Speaker 1: and we'll get into some of the Yeah. And that's uh,
Speaker 1: that's important too, because like I said, I mean, I
Speaker 1: and I include this in a in my book. Uh,
Speaker 1: there's a whole discussion of case on there's a discussion
Speaker 1: of me life for you know, wait, which is important.
Speaker 1: It's it's for a lot of reasons because that does
Speaker 1: that that was a matter of tactical doctor and it
Speaker 1: wasn't this anomalous war crime. I I'm not I'm not
Speaker 1: making some like like liberal human rights argument. I mean
Speaker 1: I think it was. I think free fires munch are
Speaker 1: fucked up, like, don't get me wrong, But what happened
Speaker 1: Melife four was very much above board until the concrete
Speaker 1: particulars were relayed that uh, you know, what was actually
Speaker 1: underway in free fire zones was.
Speaker 2: The targeting of of of everybody.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, it's kind of hard to believe that
Speaker 3: people back home didn't know what was going on, considering
Speaker 3: they were posting death counts, like you know, enemy death
Speaker 3: counts since nineteen sixty five.
Speaker 1: Well, I think the reasoning of people was and despite
Speaker 1: the fact that there's I mean, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: there was a fifth column in US media that was
Speaker 1: sabotaging the war effort, but there wasn't. But there weren't
Speaker 1: elements embedded with the infantry, you know, in pink fill
Speaker 1: or something. So when the army through stars and stripes
Speaker 1: and the after action reports said that, you know, we
Speaker 1: assaulted Meli four, you know, and we killed foreigner VIDIA hostiles,
Speaker 1: the presumption is those their military age males, and that
Speaker 1: they were actively under arms. Like people didn't understand that. Okay,
Speaker 1: everybody who was friendly was evacuated. They were told you
Speaker 1: aren't being evacuated. If you remain, you are considered a
Speaker 1: categorical enemy. And the people refused. We relocated strategic hamlets,
Speaker 1: whether by coercion or whether owing to partisan commitment. They
Speaker 1: were providing aid and comfort to the VC, so they
Speaker 1: were fair targets for destruction. And everybody who understood that.
Speaker 1: And what was asinine is, you know, Lieutenant Kelly, literally
Speaker 1: this twenty three year old guy, you know, who was
Speaker 1: sort of out of his element in a command role.
Speaker 1: So you're telling me that this twenty three year old
Speaker 1: platoon leader he went berserk, decided all on his own
Speaker 1: to massacre hundreds of people just because he was mad,
Speaker 1: and that you know these season NCOs, who has anyone
Speaker 1: who's been in the service in a combat infantry platoon.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you like the real authority on platoon. His
Speaker 1: NCOs were like, okay, bet yeah, we're gonna do it.
Speaker 1: Ernst Medina, who was universally feared throughout America Division, you know,
Speaker 1: and who was uh Kelly's company Commander Kelly basically just
Speaker 1: like gave him the finger and like went rogue. It's
Speaker 1: it's it's you gotta be an idiot if you believe that. Okay.
Speaker 1: But also, I mean that's what counterinsurancy doctrine is. And
Speaker 1: in the book, I make the point one of things
Speaker 1: fasting about War two. It's how that there's many different wars.
Speaker 1: Like if you were fighting in North Africa, you were
Speaker 1: fighting a totally different war. Then if you were with
Speaker 1: the Army Group North in archangel and Leningrad, And if
Speaker 1: you were on the Western Front as like a folks
Speaker 1: part of Deer and the last year of the war,
Speaker 1: your experience was totally different than in the Ast Front.
Speaker 1: But one of the most intense theaters was in the Balkans,
Speaker 1: you know, and Uh on the frontier of what was
Speaker 1: the NDAH because a large swath the Boston Hertzegovina was
Speaker 1: incorporated into the independent state of Croatia, you know, there
Speaker 1: was this on going. Uh there's this three way counter
Speaker 1: insurgency where the the Rmacht and uh the Croatian Home
Speaker 1: Guard and the Vafan SS they were fighting the Chetniks.
Speaker 1: They were also fighting the Partisans, you know, and the
Speaker 1: Partisans in the Chetniks were also fighting each other. And uh,
Speaker 1: you know, that's that's one of the that's one of
Speaker 1: the those one of the primaries and responsibility for for
Speaker 1: uh hands are thirteenth the SS. You know, who is
Speaker 1: a Bosniak formation because Pavlich grew up in a town
Speaker 1: that was with a substantial Maslim population, and he knew
Speaker 1: a lot about Sunni Islam and uh, you know, the
Speaker 1: according to the racial racial codes of the ndh uh,
Speaker 1: Bosniaks were racial Croatians. But uh, you know, pavolotch Uh,
Speaker 1: the Bosniacts and the and the ethnic cross were very
Speaker 1: much allied. There were some tensions there, but generally that's
Speaker 1: the way it shakes out to this day. Then the
Speaker 1: Homeland War was a little bit different and complicated, but anyway,
Speaker 1: there was this counterinsurance he fight in Yugoslavia or what
Speaker 1: became Yugoslavia, and uh it shook out very much like
Speaker 1: not a tagical level. You know, there'd be the the Hrmacht.
Speaker 1: They talk some village honcho, some Serbian village honcho who
Speaker 1: like assure them that you know, he he wanted not
Speaker 1: with the chet Nicks, you know. But then like lo
Speaker 1: and behold, uh, you know, they take sniper fire from
Speaker 1: that same village. Then it comes down from on high
Speaker 1: like okay, like kill everybody, you know, like these people
Speaker 1: or enemies, they're they're jetniks, you don't kill them all.
Speaker 1: And that, you know, like literally identical to what went
Speaker 1: down and themb you know, it's this obviously, you know
Speaker 1: that's nothing new. But the middle portion of my book,
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I deal with is pers at
Speaker 1: every juncture, everything that every everything that was alleged by
Speaker 1: the National Military Tribunal, and it's come to constitute what
Speaker 1: America claims is, you know, the laws of warfare, like
Speaker 1: America literally does every single one of those things, you know,
Speaker 1: and I mean even beyond that, because Standing Doctrine from
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five sixty six until nineteen ninety one was an.
Speaker 2: Event of nuclear war.
Speaker 1: To the victory metric was was killing approximately eighty million
Speaker 1: civilians in the Soviet Union, you know, you go, you don't.
Speaker 1: You don't get to fall back on evil Nazis when
Speaker 1: that's when the siop is. You know, our victory metric
Speaker 1: is to annihilate an entire civilization. You know, that's what
Speaker 1: assured destruction is. A sure destruction is unlike emyd Assured
Speaker 1: destruction actually as a meaning, it's not some polemical device.
Speaker 1: It's a strategic concept in nuclear war planning. It's the
Speaker 1: point at which an enemy society has absorbed such catastrophic
Speaker 1: attrition it can no longer reconstitute. And in the case
Speaker 1: of the Soviet Union that would have in the sixties
Speaker 1: or seventies, that would have to make killing between sixty
Speaker 1: and one hundred million people, which is almost unfathomable. You know,
Speaker 1: when you think about it, I think people, i think
Speaker 1: I'm flippant on this stuff because I'm prone to pointing
Speaker 1: out that there's an idiotic discourse around nuclear weapons that
Speaker 1: is now. But I mean, make no mistake, nuclear weapons,
Speaker 1: particularly from the air of the hydrogen bomb onward, are
Speaker 1: pretty horrific man. And I get into that in my
Speaker 1: book two, The Lie of the German Atomic Bomb and
Speaker 1: How Einstein through the Border of Jewish deputies, and through
Speaker 1: his coreligionists and ideological fellows and the focus in the
Speaker 1: UK through Wall Street connections, we're able to get an
Speaker 1: audience with Roosevelt and sell him on this lie that
Speaker 1: there was a German.
Speaker 2: Atomic bomb being developed.
Speaker 1: So but I mean, why would you know, Zionists who
Speaker 1: have an app racial hatred of Europeans, Like, why would
Speaker 1: they think twice about devising weapons that could literally annihilate
Speaker 1: the continent? And people need to be clear on that.
Speaker 1: That's what the atomic bomb was for. It was two
Speaker 1: wage nuclear war in Europe and genocide Europe out of existence.
Speaker 1: Like no, nobody does that, Like no nobody, nobody annihilate
Speaker 1: nobody self annihilates their civilization, you know. And that's that's
Speaker 1: why I've got no that's why I've got no tolerance
Speaker 1: for boomer boomer truth. They're like, well, these people just misguide.
Speaker 1: It's like, no, you don't. You don't get to pull
Speaker 1: that card, you know, you don't get to I mean,
Speaker 1: he's go ahead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let me ask you a question. What was what
Speaker 3: was the confessional makeup of most of the Germans who
Speaker 3: were in who were in Danzig in in nineteen thirty.
Speaker 1: Nine, they're mostly Lutheran. I mean, Danzig was a Prussian
Speaker 1: city for practical purposes, right, you know, and the Coulter
Speaker 1: comp which was the Bismarcky and beyond effort to protestant
Speaker 1: Ize Prussia quite literally, like supposedly, I don't know if
Speaker 1: this is apogryphy or not. Supposedly the Kaiser's wife wouldn't
Speaker 1: even let Catholics in her home, Okay, I mean, uh,
Speaker 1: I The ascendancy of of of the Fear, among other things,
Speaker 1: suggests that that sectarian cultural schism had been remedied, you know.
Speaker 1: But Hitler was unusual. He was a Habspurd Catholic who uh,
Speaker 1: whose core of political support was in the Protestant semi
Speaker 1: rural north, and who identified the German roy because the
Speaker 1: legacy government of Prussia. But uh, yeah, Danzig was uh
Speaker 1: it was an austprouse uh city for a practical purposes.
Speaker 3: One of the reasons, I am one of the reasons
Speaker 3: I asked this because Beck was a Calvinist.
Speaker 1: So I mean, we're, yeah, there's there's there's there's German Calvinists,
Speaker 1: just like there's Hungarian Calvinists.
Speaker 2: They're the minority.
Speaker 3: But you know, well, well, Beck what was Beck's I mean,
Speaker 3: I could see if if Denzig was a German Catholic city.
Speaker 3: What I'm just looking for like religious animosity between Beck
Speaker 3: as a Calvinist and and you know the German population
Speaker 3: of Beck was an unusual guy.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, Pitsolski, what Pinsolski was that was viewed
Speaker 1: as kind of the reasonable man of that, I mean
Speaker 1: Pinsolski was was dead by the time of that of
Speaker 1: Colonel Beck's ascendancy. No the read uh Daniel uh or
Speaker 1: Donald Day? You know he I think I was talking
Speaker 1: about him the other day. Donald Day was a He
Speaker 1: was Robert R. McCormick's uh like right hand man at
Speaker 1: the Chicago Tribune, and he was invited by the Moscow
Speaker 1: Media Bureau to report on what was happening in the
Speaker 1: Soviet Union, you know, like in the thirties, and he
Speaker 1: basically refused to lie about the reality of the faminine stuff.
Speaker 1: So he got he got banished from the Soviet Union,
Speaker 1: and you know, he became an arch America first year.
Speaker 1: And he was quoted as saying, you know, in the
Speaker 1: eve of war when he was in Warsaw, he said
Speaker 1: two things that were attributed to him, not not incorrectly,
Speaker 1: but as examples of his like perfectest character or whatever.
Speaker 1: He said that it's going to be a bitter medicine.
Speaker 1: But he said Europe's gonna have to swallow a large
Speaker 1: dose of national socialism to expel the poison from itself.
Speaker 1: And then he said too that the polls basically deserved
Speaker 1: everything they got. He's like, did this pigheaded people who
Speaker 1: who got this totally outsized and unwarranted national pride. They
Speaker 1: think that they're entitled to dominate Central Europe, that they
Speaker 1: can exhibit utter contempt with the Russians and the Germans,
Speaker 1: like meanwhile, you know, swag treating their own minorities with
Speaker 1: a sort of contemptuous swaying swimming superiority, like despite having
Speaker 1: like no appreciable you know, military capability, despite having a
Speaker 1: totally backwards system, you know, despite having an economy that
Speaker 1: is failing even by the standards of you know, the
Speaker 1: eighteen seventies. It's like, you know, fuck these people, they're
Speaker 1: like the Ukrainians of the of the nineteen thirties. And
Speaker 1: but I mean that's what it was. There wasn't some
Speaker 1: rational Hitler basically gave the Poles the world and the
Speaker 1: Polish response was, fuck you, We're gonna, We're going to
Speaker 1: war and we're gonna be in Berlin in months. It's
Speaker 1: like trying to negotiate with Ukrainians, you know, like, uh,
Speaker 1: the uh all the Germans wanted, the Germans said that
Speaker 1: we need the ability to defend it depth, so we
Speaker 1: will guarantee Polish security, you know, through operational integration. All
Speaker 1: we want is a mutual defense packed against Moscow. And uh,
Speaker 1: we want dedicated access to Danzig. And they're like Danzig
Speaker 1: even remain under Polish political authority, like like Hitler basically
Speaker 1: bent over backwards. And the Polish response was that, you know,
Speaker 1: Poland's greatest country on Earth. You know, we're where we're
Speaker 1: gonna rule Berlin and and and then we're gonna and
Speaker 1: then we're gonna you know, back down Moscow.
Speaker 2: Totally like peak delusion. That's why that's funny.
Speaker 3: My my Polish side, both set to my great grandparents
Speaker 3: on both sides left like thirty years like left in
Speaker 3: nineteen ten and nineteen eleven respectively. They're like getting the
Speaker 3: fuck out of here. We're going to America.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I like I said, I like Polish people.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a huge amount of them here we
Speaker 1: we've got the largest Polish population outside of Poland here.
Speaker 3: You know some around Poles. I like Poles, They're they're
Speaker 3: good Western people. Pennsylvania is pretty it got a pretty
Speaker 3: good Polish population.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of a lot, a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of Polish people are are are a lot
Speaker 1: of Polish people are are are were forcibly slavitized germs. So,
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's stupid, like hate on Poles
Speaker 1: on I mean, you shouldn't go and hating people anyway,
Speaker 1: but yeah's adding like Poles, a bunch of Mongols. It's like,
Speaker 1: well a lot of them actually Germans Man that you know,
Speaker 1: got so that's but they're no, they're I'm speaking of
Speaker 1: their government and their whole political class was totally dysfunctional.
Speaker 2: And uh, you.
Speaker 3: Know when you grow up, when you grew up with
Speaker 3: Polish grand parents, you yet I knew every Polish joke
Speaker 3: growing up.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I know a ton of them because uh,
Speaker 1: where I live and my older is good.
Speaker 2: What do you go ahead? Oh?
Speaker 3: Sorry, oh I would saying when I was when I
Speaker 3: was growing up, we had this book. It was one
Speaker 3: of those books that was like half half one book
Speaker 3: half the other. You flip it over and it was
Speaker 3: two books and one was Polish jokes and the other
Speaker 3: one was Italian jokes. That was in my house brought. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I like Italian jokes too, Like was that men an Italian?
Speaker 3: A Puerto Rican with a job? Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: But what's what does WAP stand for? Without papers? The
Speaker 3: what's an Italian virgin? The ugly twelve year old can
Speaker 3: outrunner brothers?
Speaker 2: Uh? No?
Speaker 1: I I I'm a big fan of Italians and they
Speaker 1: make they make the best food, and they make the
Speaker 1: best clothes. And you know, like I said, I I
Speaker 1: end the uh, I end the Italian guys and Lantin
Speaker 1: guys because they I wish I could get away with
Speaker 1: the the kinds of fifth that they do. I think
Speaker 1: I do okay for ah uh, you know a Redneckish
Speaker 1: Peckerwood type guy. But I mean you got your your
Speaker 1: your ethnic. Jack had a determined your style, like back
Speaker 1: when black people know what he dressed, you know, like
Speaker 1: James Brown, who like always look great like black guys
Speaker 1: old You'll see older black guys are still dressed good
Speaker 1: and like I envy them too because it's like man
Speaker 1: that that's like an awesome suit that I could like
Speaker 1: never pull off. But yeah, if you if you drive
Speaker 1: by a black church like on on Sunday morning, Uh,
Speaker 1: the older black guys always have the fit going oh yeah, no,
Speaker 1: one hundred percent, yeah, yeah, that's uh. But I'm aling
Speaker 1: to remember the sea change too, because even when I'm
Speaker 1: like I talk to Big d about that because uh,
Speaker 1: you know, he told me like back and then you
Speaker 1: know he's and he's only about ten or eleven years
Speaker 1: older than me, and he's like, yeah, he's like one
Speaker 1: of the reasons, Uh, he's like one of the reason
Speaker 1: I wanted to be like an al Rouken is because
Speaker 1: he's like the rogans and the vice lords were like
Speaker 1: he's like those good dudes, like dressed better than everybody.
Speaker 1: And then like uh, within a few years, like uh,
Speaker 1: win a few years and you've got guys like Iced
Speaker 1: Tea like trying to make it out of these iceberg
Speaker 1: slim but he's wearing like a starter jacket on, like
Speaker 1: a ball cap, like they're not wrong going like ball
Speaker 1: cast but it's like number ten, you're like number ten,
Speaker 1: you're like ron O'Neill or fucking iceberg slim. But you're
Speaker 1: like dressed like a fucking you're dressed like just some
Speaker 1: like random dude, you know, Like I mean that's not
Speaker 1: that it's like what happened to you guys forgot how
Speaker 1: to dress, but also like black dudes forgot how to
Speaker 1: play figure out how to play the guitar.
Speaker 2: I don't understand that either.
Speaker 3: But it's like Jews forgot how to play basketball.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 1: To be fair though, like the end, but like when
Speaker 1: people act like, uh, you know, Ozids were the best ballplayers.
Speaker 1: Basketball was literally like the super segregated like YMCA sports,
Speaker 1: you know, and so it's like these Jewish guys they
Speaker 1: were playing against a bunch of four foot tall Italian
Speaker 1: guys and like the Hungarian team.
Speaker 2: You know, it's like.
Speaker 1: Suddenly like uh literally was like that, like you know,
Speaker 1: ghetto wise, it wasn't even like uh, you know the
Speaker 1: leatherhead days of football where uh you know football was
Speaker 1: uh was basically rugby and then it transitioned into you know,
Speaker 1: the pigskin game.
Speaker 2: As we know it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, uh yeah, the well plus two. It's
Speaker 1: kind oflicated like the best uh you had some decent
Speaker 1: Jewish pugs of the lighter divisions like Fritzy Zivich. Max
Speaker 1: Bayer was only like a quarter Jewish, I mean know,
Speaker 1: I mean wrong. They were like Jewish heavyweights, a good bang.
Speaker 2: But it's.
Speaker 1: The tribal states that ship, like just by the ways
Speaker 1: that there will always be some like nebushy weirdo looks
Speaker 1: like l Goldstein writing a book like you know big
Speaker 1: when she was with Tough This is my book about
Speaker 1: being in Jewish babies. We only rama Manuel like he wrote,
Speaker 1: and like north Shore magazine when motherfucker's running from mirror
Speaker 1: and I get me wrong, ironically like Perferson, the sounds
Speaker 1: I preferred rm the fucking daily daily with a piece
Speaker 1: of ship, you know, like uh like a literal like
Speaker 1: babbling retard and man beaty like daily the sun not
Speaker 1: not boss daily, but uh like ram uh Rom grew
Speaker 1: up around well Met, which is a good town and
Speaker 1: it's actually more waspy than a lot of the North Shore.
Speaker 1: Not that it's like a great thing like wasp don't
Speaker 1: like me either, Like I was making that point of people,
Speaker 1: especially uh, especially.
Speaker 2: Some of our.
Speaker 1: Some of our ghetto wise Catholic friends who like you
Speaker 1: would burn. I'm like bro, like I I get thrown
Speaker 1: out of wasp environments, motherfucker. Like I'm I'm I'm, I'm
Speaker 1: the bastard burden and I are like the bastard cousins
Speaker 1: they're ashamed of. It's like, you know, you don't get it.
Speaker 1: So do I look like I belong to a fucking
Speaker 1: country club?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I do not, But I think it is as long
Speaker 3: as is long a storm, he is down with the
Speaker 3: he'll be out.
Speaker 2: No, don't get me wrong.
Speaker 1: Like I like Peter Brimlow, like he like he likes
Speaker 1: me and Jack like part of that, for that part
Speaker 1: of it, for that reason, like when I when we
Speaker 1: met him, he came up to me and I was
Speaker 1: wearing uh, I was running my battle jacket and like
Speaker 1: an ILSA shirt. But you know I've got uh I
Speaker 1: got the red hand like Ulster flag and he's like,
Speaker 1: that's an interesting chuck at you have on. And he's like,
Speaker 1: I'd like your Northern Ireland flag. But then like when
Speaker 1: we were at the OGC Virginia, you know, like Wallbank
Speaker 1: team Wollbanger's thing, like Brimlow, he made a point to
Speaker 1: like invited me and Jack to sit at his table,
Speaker 1: you know, which is dope because like he he's he's
Speaker 1: just a good dude, you know, and he's a you know,
Speaker 1: he's like an old Scottish guy. But he yeah, he
Speaker 1: he likes me and Jack because we're we're ulster Basters.
Speaker 1: But uh, but no, there there really is like a
Speaker 1: cultural divide. That's one of the reasons.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: And like, don't get me wrong, when I was in
Speaker 1: high school, like Forest is kind of wasp Central. You
Speaker 1: got some like rich Greeks there and stuff now too,
Speaker 1: but that's traditionally the Lost part Land, you know, I
Speaker 1: was from. I was from farther south in the at
Speaker 1: you know, and like my town was like very Jewish
Speaker 1: and very ethnic and very Catholic. And I went to
Speaker 1: the I went to the Reform Prisby Church, you know,
Speaker 1: like uh a little close to the lake. But the uh,
Speaker 1: like the deer Field make Forest guys. If I if
Speaker 1: I like showed up at their parties, they weren't like
Speaker 1: upset or something. It's just that we lived kind of
Speaker 1: like parallel, but I hadn't respecting lives. It's like it's the
Speaker 1: thing I do itself. Storm will tell you that.
Speaker 3: That's why I'm gonna ask you about I was gonna
Speaker 3: ask you about this Did you ever see Stars the
Speaker 3: cable channel. Stars was putting out some pretty good stuff
Speaker 3: for a few years there, but they were only doing
Speaker 3: like two seasons. They would end it real quick. Did
Speaker 3: you ever see Boss with Kelsey Grammar play in the
Speaker 3: main or Chicago?
Speaker 2: No, but I'm familiar with it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think, yeah, I think you'd enjoy it. There
Speaker 3: was another show they did. It was called Magic City,
Speaker 3: and it took place in Miami in the fifties, and
Speaker 3: it basically showed how like the Mob was Jewish in
Speaker 3: Miami at the time.
Speaker 1: No, that's why they get into that a little bit
Speaker 1: in Donnie Brasco, but it's subtle.
Speaker 3: But yeah, yeah, this is explicit. This is explicit. It's
Speaker 3: it's actually a pretty good show. But you could tell
Speaker 3: they like either ran out of funding or they just
Speaker 3: cut it because at the at the end of the
Speaker 3: second season the show ends. But I mean it was
Speaker 3: just it ended kind of weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Pete Hudter said, Kitty on Boss was smoking hot. Yeah
Speaker 3: that's the Yeah, the character of like his assistant. Oh
Speaker 3: my god, No, a lot of there's a bunch of
Speaker 3: dope ash shows.
Speaker 2: Shit, man.
Speaker 1: My favorite show of all time was Crime Story which
Speaker 1: you got really weird. But that only went two seasons,
Speaker 1: you know, and that they did it on a cliffhanger.
Speaker 1: That's fascinating too, because that we got to do a
Speaker 1: show on that Mimmyvice, Crime Story, Twin Peaks, Wise Guy,
Speaker 1: and this wasn't you had insane talent making primetime shows.
Speaker 1: You had fucking David Lanch Michael Mann. Wise Guy was
Speaker 1: a crazy show and one of the later seasons, it
Speaker 1: had a bunch of the cast it well, it had
Speaker 1: what it had Jonathan Banks, you know, like Mike Irman Trout,
Speaker 1: he was on it, Darlene Flugel or Daryl Anne Flugel
Speaker 1: who was a crime story and Mimmyvice veteran, she was
Speaker 1: on it. A bunch of other people from Twin.
Speaker 2: Peaks were on it.
Speaker 1: And you can tell that the narrative device, there was
Speaker 1: a lot of cross pollination with Twin Peaks as well
Speaker 1: as with Crime Story and Vice. And it's because that
Speaker 1: was around the time of the writers strike too, so
Speaker 1: you could tell like weird things were happening and different
Speaker 1: ips were poaching different talent. But it's the kind of
Speaker 1: stuff you'd never see on prime time these days, you know,
Speaker 1: when uh, I love Crime Story because, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: at Dennis Farina and had a bunch of guys from
Speaker 1: Thief like uh, like Johnny Santucci. He actually was an
Speaker 1: outfit guy. And it was embarrassing because during Crime Story
Speaker 1: he got arrested for robbing, uh, vending machines, you know,
Speaker 1: like jimmying open the lots and taking all the quarters away.
Speaker 1: But he Johnny Santucci was a He wasn't even an actor.
Speaker 1: He was when when Dennis Frino was Chicago p D.
Speaker 1: He'd arrested Johnny Santucci a bunch of times. So like
Speaker 1: when you know, when he got his acting role on
Speaker 1: Crime Story, Michael Mann's like, you know, like I'd like
Speaker 1: to tell some guys, you know, who were active in
Speaker 1: the early sixties. He's like, oh, let me let me
Speaker 1: call this guy. I know I arrested a bunch of times,
Speaker 1: and like Santucci was such a nut and so it's
Speaker 1: like a caricature. Michael Mann's like, I like, he's got
Speaker 1: to like be on this show. And Ted Levine like
Speaker 1: he he played this outfit guy he was obviously supposed
Speaker 1: to be.
Speaker 2: Uh.
Speaker 1: Frank Holheimer, there's this great book It's impossible to find
Speaker 1: now called the cat Burglars. You know the reason why
Speaker 1: Thief the plot shakes out the way it does like
Speaker 1: a high end uh jewelry theft was a huge thing
Speaker 1: in Chicago, you know, for various reasons, and the outfit
Speaker 1: was taxing that.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Basically, it's like, you know, it's it's you know, and
Speaker 1: it's been shook down like it didn't thief, you know,
Speaker 1: and it's like if you're if your chops are good enough,
Speaker 1: it's like we'll put you to work and will guarantee
Speaker 1: you scores. But it's like if you're freelance, fine, but
Speaker 1: if you if you don't kick uf, you die. But
Speaker 1: you know it, Uh. Crime story gets into all of that,
Speaker 1: and it's just got a great cast. Andrew dice Clay,
Speaker 1: who actually has I mean, he's he's an idiot of
Speaker 1: a comedian. He wasn't at all funny. He was a dickhead.
Speaker 1: But his uh, his acting shops are pretty good. He
Speaker 1: played this dude, Uh, he played a Jewish mob guy
Speaker 1: from Miami. And the third is going with it and
Speaker 1: this guy who's obviously supposed to be Meyer Lanski is
Speaker 1: like who he kicks up to? But no, just uh
Speaker 1: incredible stuff. And that's people don't realize either that the
Speaker 1: season long narrative arc of show that all shows, you know,
Speaker 1: that was invented by Crime Story and Mimmy Weice and
Speaker 1: Wise Guy and Twin Peaks. That wasn't the convention before,
Speaker 1: like individual episodes like standalone things and you know, pre
Speaker 1: uh pre cable. I mean, go ahead, you know Coppola.
Speaker 1: Coppola used to make his actors hang out with mob guys.
Speaker 1: He might to make him spent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he used to make them spend yeah, which which
Speaker 3: is like, okay, I does Copla know all these mob
Speaker 3: guy but the yeah, they all the guys and Godfather
Speaker 3: had to spend time with mob guys and be around them.
Speaker 1: No, the god The Godfather is a great movie, people,
Speaker 1: it's not. I far prefer stuff like Mean Streets. Like
Speaker 1: Mean Streets is the greatest whole time Mafia movie Mean
Speaker 1: Streets and Casino, and like Casino is awesome. It was
Speaker 1: a bunch Chicago, That's why it's so fucking savage. But
Speaker 1: uh no, The Godfather is dope. My problem with it
Speaker 1: is Marlon Brando is actually a terrible actor and he
Speaker 1: almost ruins the movie.
Speaker 3: H James James Khan is like Sonny is the best character.
Speaker 1: No, James conn is always awesome. No, And al Pacino
Speaker 1: is awesome, especially in that ero and unlike like like
Speaker 1: uh like Robert de Niro is literally retarded like on
Speaker 1: al Pacino though like never isn't a retard and didn't
Speaker 1: like make.
Speaker 2: A fool himself.
Speaker 3: Duval's really good in that too, especially when he goes
Speaker 3: to La to see the director. I mean his his
Speaker 3: acting in that is just so amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, level yeah. And the guy who plays Luca
Speaker 1: Brozzi's awesome. Lucia Brozzi is like the Terminator. Uh like
Speaker 1: when he show so up, does everybody dies?
Speaker 2: What? No?
Speaker 1: I like The Godfather, man, I stay by The Godfather three.
Speaker 1: It's a good movie.
Speaker 2: I saw in the.
Speaker 3: Theater movie if it stands If it stands by itself,
Speaker 3: it's a good movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if people want it either.
Speaker 1: I mean, admittedly I was like a teenager, but that
Speaker 1: came out like right when school was letting out nineteen ninety,
Speaker 1: like when I was in high school, and I remember
Speaker 1: it was funny how it broke down, because uh, that's
Speaker 1: back when people still got really concerned about like violence,
Speaker 1: at the movie theater, which did happen sometimes. But you
Speaker 1: know Nu Jack City, which is a terrible movie.
Speaker 3: It is terrible. Oh dude, it's hilarious. It is like
Speaker 3: it's so over the top restarted.
Speaker 1: Well it's also I like Christopher like hitting the crack
Speaker 1: paces take them like and they call people like pooky
Speaker 1: is like it, you know, meaning like you're a crackhead.
Speaker 1: But we had there like some guy from like Bell
Speaker 1: Bib Devo or something you're supposed to believe he's like
Speaker 1: a tough guy or well all things was like insane.
Speaker 1: It's like how it's like how some like a Hollywood
Speaker 1: guy and some like drug cop from the Day program
Speaker 1: like thinks shit actually is, which means there's like no
Speaker 1: relationship reality, you know.
Speaker 2: And then uh, that's.
Speaker 1: As like the way I used Tea proved he's like
Speaker 1: a big sellout, you know. And then like he then
Speaker 1: we was like called on if you have to like
Speaker 1: lame no no, no, He's like yo, man yo. If
Speaker 1: a police like they did in my movie, I'd want
Speaker 1: to be a police man. I'm saying this police should
Speaker 1: act not that I like, I like the police, like
Speaker 1: shut up, you fuck. It's like you're a you're literally
Speaker 1: like doing like war on drugs, propping into and playing
Speaker 1: a fucking pig. You know, it's like, don't even fucking
Speaker 1: come with it, alibi. But uh, by any event, it
Speaker 1: was uh all all the like, uh like all the
Speaker 1: uh you go to the theater, particularly like someplace, uh
Speaker 1: like I don't like the western burbs or I'm like
Speaker 1: the north side of the city. I'd be like a
Speaker 1: bunch of white kids and like Guido Away was like
Speaker 1: going to see god Bar the Three and a bunch
Speaker 1: of like black and Spanish kids going to see New
Speaker 1: Jack Scene. It was like self segregation with tea. But
Speaker 1: uh but anyway, I went to see it with a
Speaker 1: couple of friends and like a few girls we knew,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that's awesome. And I was thought Joe
Speaker 1: Montine was cool and uh when he assaults the casino
Speaker 1: with the choppers and I can't remember exactly if I
Speaker 1: can't remember, it's guys with like a k's if there's
Speaker 1: actual like vulcans like blasting away, but either way, it's
Speaker 1: fucking cool. And I uh, I mean, I thought it
Speaker 1: was cool and it wasn't fair just by what people
Speaker 1: said Sophia Koppel. I actually had acted in a bunch
Speaker 1: of stuff before that, including Rumblefish, which is an interesting movie,
Speaker 1: I think, but uh, she got utterly savaged and like
Speaker 1: this is just nipotism. No man, Winona Ryder was cast
Speaker 1: in that role. She totally flaked and like got arrested.
Speaker 1: They ended up in rehab. Coppola had like a month
Speaker 1: to recast somebody. They're acting like, oh, he just cast
Speaker 1: his daughter. It's like he didn't though, like what choice
Speaker 1: did he have? And I mean for what she, I
Speaker 1: mean for Zakopa is not like beautiful or anything. But
Speaker 1: but in the movie, that's not why Vincent is gonna
Speaker 1: marry her, and he loves her, but it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's because he's he's the heir of the empire. It's
Speaker 1: like a royal marriage, you know, like it's not like,
Speaker 1: oh she's so hot, you know. I mean, like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I thought it worked.
Speaker 4: You.
Speaker 1: It was conspicuous that Robert Duval was gone, but but
Speaker 1: also made sense too, because like Corleone is at the
Speaker 1: end of his life. He knows either gonna get whacked
Speaker 1: or he's gonna, you know, die of natural causes like
Speaker 1: his father did because his health isn't good and he's remembering,
Speaker 1: he's remembering Sonny, He's remembering Tom Hagen, you know, because
Speaker 1: Hagen was his best friend and his adopted brother. And
Speaker 1: I mean Sonny was was his literal brother. You know,
Speaker 1: when you get old, you lose people. Man, You know
Speaker 1: that like it? I thought it was. I thought it
Speaker 1: was powerful man, and well I thought I thought In
Speaker 1: the third movie, basically the underlying theme was that he
Speaker 1: was haunted by by killing afraid. Now, yeah, as any normal,
Speaker 1: remotely normal person would be. And I don't know what
Speaker 1: people want. Like, look, the Godfather movies are good, but
Speaker 1: they're not like high art or something. And like even
Speaker 1: Mario Puzzo that was when, you know, the paperback era
Speaker 1: was was huge, and he basically wrote like a violent uh.
Speaker 1: He basically wrote kind of like a violent pulp novel
Speaker 1: that would also appeal to women because there's a bunch
Speaker 1: of like sex and romantic stuff.
Speaker 2: This isn't Shakespeare.
Speaker 1: It's this idea when people were like savaging god Brother three,
Speaker 1: like they ruined the legacy. I'm like, bro, this isn't
Speaker 1: Citizen Kane, this isn't Metropolis. It's it's some it's some
Speaker 1: uh you know, paperback gangster movie, No Go Ahead.
Speaker 3: Which was just funny because like they took The Godfather,
Speaker 3: which was a pulp novel and turned it into sort
Speaker 3: of like a you know, like a set piece kind
Speaker 3: of movie and everything. But Goodfellas was like a serious
Speaker 3: novel that they turned into pulp because because because the
Speaker 3: book Wise Guy is a great book, but it's like
Speaker 3: the major a huge part of that is about the
Speaker 3: Boston College scandal. It was about the about shaving points
Speaker 3: in Boston College. And that's barely it's it's barely mentioned
Speaker 3: in the in the movie. I think the movie is
Speaker 3: a little Yeah, Maury mentions it like as he's right
Speaker 3: before he's getting killed, and really they got busted because
Speaker 3: an FB there was an FBI agent who was like
Speaker 3: an alum of Boston College and and he like made
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm gonna make a project out of these guys.
Speaker 2: Right right.
Speaker 1: No, And that same guy, Nicholas Pelegi or whatever, he
Speaker 1: wrote Casino when and Casino is a great book and
Speaker 1: a great movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, I you know what, to be clear, like I'm
Speaker 1: not I wasn't I'm not transfering to Godfather, but it's
Speaker 1: not high art.
Speaker 2: I was fine.
Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of stuff I like that's
Speaker 1: you know, not some sort of artistic triumph in the ages.
Speaker 3: But it I mean, the the the whole scene with
Speaker 3: with Captain McCluskey and and so lotso in in the restaurant.
Speaker 3: That wasn't shot to be like some kind of you know,
Speaker 3: like art piece. It was shot to be when is
Speaker 3: he going to kill him?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: It was like it was more it was a it's
Speaker 3: a movie. It's a suspense movie.
Speaker 1: It looks a kind of like even though I generally
Speaker 1: despise Brian to Palma, I really like the movie Scarface,
Speaker 1: even though that's kind of it's being on a cliche
Speaker 1: that like a bunch of dumbass rappers like and stuff.
Speaker 1: But I but I've liked itself as a kid, and
Speaker 1: it's a really good movie. And it's a good uh
Speaker 1: you know. I'm a big Howard Hawks guy, you know.
Speaker 1: And one of the reason I like John Carboner before
Speaker 1: Carboner like lost his mind and became an idiot, is
Speaker 1: you know, he he was paying home Howard Hawks a
Speaker 1: bunch of his stuff. And the original Scarface, the nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty three Scarface.
Speaker 3: It's like a.
Speaker 1: Legit compliment piece to the original, like nineteen twenty nine Scarface,
Speaker 1: Like there are a lot of like you know, and
Speaker 1: they're both awesome.
Speaker 3: What's crazy is in the beginning of the nineteen eighty
Speaker 3: three to one, it shows you that basically there is
Speaker 3: a diaspora the size of a big city living under
Speaker 3: I ninety five, my Miami. And that's true. That actually happened,
Speaker 3: and people don't realize that there was a literal city
Speaker 3: that was built under I ninety five that was fenced
Speaker 3: in and it was Mario Boat. It was like all
Speaker 3: these basically Castro emptied his prisons and sent them to Miami.
Speaker 2: No. One hundred percent.
Speaker 1: And that's why when people say that, people say, like,
Speaker 1: O scarface over the top, because it's these Colombians killing
Speaker 1: people with chained So I was like, first of all,
Speaker 1: they do that shit. Like secondly, during the cocaine cowboys era,
Speaker 1: there were dudes blasting at each other with Mac ten's
Speaker 1: at the shopping mall, like that was happening, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean, Like this wasn't.
Speaker 3: I'll tell you. I'll tell you privately. One day I
Speaker 3: knew somebody who owned a cigarette boat at the time,
Speaker 3: and you know, had mac Ten's and everything like that,
Speaker 3: and told me some stories. I'll tell you. I won't.
Speaker 3: I won't sell that story on the air though.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I uh, that's one of the reasons, well, one of
Speaker 1: the reasons why Michael Man, you know Michael Man's he's
Speaker 1: a Chicago guy who then went to La He just
Speaker 1: started filming on Miami vice. It's just like, look, it's
Speaker 1: like I had an idea about how to take music
Speaker 1: video optics, which at that it became like a maejorative
Speaker 1: of like, oh, this is a music video, but there's
Speaker 1: video optics roun the cutting edge in those days. And
Speaker 1: I mean you had that's why you guys like David
Speaker 1: Fincher who came up through music video production. But you know,
Speaker 1: and he's like, but I didn't I didn't know what
Speaker 1: I wanted the setting to be. But he's like, I
Speaker 1: visited Miami and he's like, first of all, there's this huge,
Speaker 1: uh renovation project, all this like wonderful art deco stuff
Speaker 1: got restored, you know. But then also they're like just
Speaker 1: like obscene amounts of cocaine money or flooding into Miami.
Speaker 1: And Michael Mann is like, what the hell's going on here?
Speaker 1: This isn'tsane, you know, and that's why. And he felt
Speaker 1: like it encapsulated, you know, the the epoch and stuff,
Speaker 1: and it was just sort of like a natural and
Speaker 1: like the weirdness, you know, like there's uh, there's just
Speaker 1: weird characters in Florida. It's like Florida Man's a real thing,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 4: It's that Uh the scene at the end of of
Speaker 4: Miami Vice out out where the busses don't run when
Speaker 4: when they're driving out there and Brothers in Arms is
Speaker 4: playing by.
Speaker 3: That's that's not a music video. That is like that
Speaker 3: is serious drama and like emotion.
Speaker 1: No, and Bruce McGill was a is a great actor
Speaker 1: and that's yeah. That the whole character at Hank Weldon too,
Speaker 1: and you realize, uh, like Sonny Crockett realizes, you know,
Speaker 1: that it's of his mind that he's going to turn
Speaker 1: into Hank Weldon.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: No, Mimi Miami Wife was more poignant than people thought.
Speaker 1: And uh, the even the later seasons that people kind
Speaker 1: of criticized for not being as good, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll buy some of the criticism, but the two part
Speaker 1: series finale Free fall or basically months before just cause
Speaker 1: it it's like it's about operation just cause you know,
Speaker 1: and crocking and tubs are on the ground because they're
Speaker 1: like basically.
Speaker 2: Like they they.
Speaker 1: They get sort of uh press gang into the assault
Speaker 1: package of Dea. That was really well done. And plus
Speaker 1: at the end too, like that when the DA guy
Speaker 1: when they when they when he realizes that he was
Speaker 1: basically getting this Norriega guy out because Dea owed him favors,
Speaker 1: you know, and then and then the DA I said
Speaker 1: the crock and he's like, look, he's like, I don't
Speaker 1: know what you think this job is. But he's like,
Speaker 1: there's not good guys and bad guys. He's like, we're
Speaker 1: here to stop that real estate. You're just we're visiting
Speaker 1: from going red. That's what matters, you know. It's not
Speaker 1: about like getting kids off drugs. And like in the
Speaker 1: eighties that was actually pretty subversive for like a fucking
Speaker 1: primetime show. No ba, It's the whole message ony Vice
Speaker 1: is the war on drugs is bullshit, you know, I
Speaker 1: mean starting nineteen eighty five that that.
Speaker 3: Was actually pretty Rob Palmers, Yeah, Rob Palmer saying Man's
Speaker 3: Miami Vice film from two thousand and six is Asia
Speaker 3: incredibly well. In my updation, I remember it being universally
Speaker 3: panned this awful when it dropped it. I remember not
Speaker 3: being a fan at first, but I rewatched it a
Speaker 3: few years ago and a shot up by Michael Mann
Speaker 3: power ranks.
Speaker 1: No, it's awesome. The only problem is the gross miscast
Speaker 1: is Gong Lead because she's got like the sex appeal
Speaker 1: the tether ball and there's like zero chemistry between her
Speaker 1: and Colin Ferrell. But no, Tom Towells does like the
Speaker 1: ab hitter and at the opening when they're doing business
Speaker 1: with the Russians and uh, I can't remember what.
Speaker 2: Kind of gad he's got.
Speaker 1: Every buddy, uh he just says like, yo, hey I've
Speaker 1: been I've only been doing business with the fboi brother.
Speaker 1: Then he just like opens up autom like that's fucking
Speaker 1: does like clutched Miami Vice stuff too.
Speaker 3: And the.
Speaker 2: It's also like.
Speaker 1: A total period piece, like the scene were crossing the
Speaker 1: opening scene with Crockett. He goes into the bar and
Speaker 1: there's like a shadowed answer with body paint on and
Speaker 1: it's that jay Z and Lincoln Park jam playing and
Speaker 1: like everybody's obviously fucked up on ecstasy, like that's that's
Speaker 1: that that is like two thousand and six, you know,
Speaker 1: and but it also shows too unlike in uh the
Speaker 1: original version. But other than the fact that uh, Crockett
Speaker 1: and Tubs are ripping around at Ferrari forty and to
Speaker 1: be clear, you know the scene where when they're racing
Speaker 1: to meet their in format who just found out his
Speaker 1: wife is murdered, the flames like blast out of like
Speaker 1: the forties exhaust for a minute. Okay, when you that
Speaker 1: does happen, it's not like Hollywood a bunch of like
Speaker 1: wanta be gear queers, where like, oh, that doesn't happen,
Speaker 1: Like there's no flames with the banks, like yeah, there are.
Speaker 1: It's all over fucking YouTube.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: But no, that vice two thousand and six is dope.
Speaker 1: I thought Public Enemies was dope.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I don't like Collateral. That just seemed to me like
Speaker 1: some cheap like cable movie.
Speaker 2: Or something thing.
Speaker 3: There was no point to the movie.
Speaker 1: No, there's no point to what. It didn't seem like.
Speaker 1: It seemed like some film student trying to imitate Michael Mann.
Speaker 1: That's also too Michael manns better than anybody. There's not
Speaker 1: professional hitman.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: That's why, Like that's all port of like movies. I
Speaker 1: heat if like you're a gangster. If you want somebody
Speaker 1: to put in work, you take you can get and
Speaker 1: sometimes you end up with Wayne Row. Okay, Like there's
Speaker 1: not there's not like I'm a professional hit man, you know,
Speaker 1: Like by day I'm like, you know what you up be,
Speaker 1: but at night I kill people and it's here's my
Speaker 1: business card. Like that's fucking that's fucking Normy Codd bullshit.
Speaker 1: The whole thing was fucking stupid.
Speaker 3: I like mister Pink's uh, mister pinks speech when they
Speaker 3: start fighting with each other and he's like, you know,
Speaker 3: every dude, every dude jobs with They just threaten and
Speaker 3: kill each other and argue and argue every day. And
Speaker 3: it's like if you're gonna if you're if you're gonna
Speaker 3: do dart in the street, you gotta be careful who
Speaker 3: you're doing it with.
Speaker 1: But no, sometimes you just have to do something. Well, No,
Speaker 1: it's why I'm discriminating. You know that I only associated
Speaker 1: with august gentlemen like Big D and Cornberd. But I'm
Speaker 1: just kidding. They're actually good dudes. What U I know
Speaker 1: my road dogs. I got a ton of fucking great dialogue.
Speaker 1: And he's like, why am Why am I mister pink,
Speaker 1: because you're a fucking figure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm I like how.
Speaker 3: I like how? You know he's just laying there bleeding
Speaker 3: the whole time with the gut shot and you're like, oh, man,
Speaker 3: he must have took one in the robbery. No, with
Speaker 3: some bit who's fucking carry trying to steal?
Speaker 2: That's what's uh.
Speaker 1: That's one of the things I actually like Quhen Tarantino, like, uh,
Speaker 1: I think he after Jackie Brown. And then he started
Speaker 1: producing garbage, I mean, and just like derivative garbage, like
Speaker 1: oh look, here's my you know.
Speaker 3: I didn't like Kill Bill at all. I didn't. I
Speaker 3: fell asleep. I fell asleep on that movie.
Speaker 2: What's huge garbage?
Speaker 1: And then later everything he did, he's like, here's a
Speaker 1: here's my version of Man Dingo, but with more nigger jokes.
Speaker 1: You know, here's my version of the Wild Bunch. You know,
Speaker 1: here's my version of Magnificent Southern ha ha. But it's
Speaker 1: the hipster version where people say motherfucker like that that's retarded,
Speaker 1: you know, like why it's like, look, man, I and
Speaker 1: It puts me off too. I like idiots think this
Speaker 1: is like original stuff. It's like, look, man, this is
Speaker 1: like a riff on an actually classic movie, and he's
Speaker 1: just like doing dumb stuff with it. It's like, holy shit,
Speaker 1: he made a movie about like sleeves. That's insane. It's like, no,
Speaker 1: you fagge it. Like there was a whole genre of
Speaker 1: movies like this, you know. He like, don't get me wrong,
Speaker 1: I kind of yeah, yeah, but uh but no, what
Speaker 1: I was gonna say was his when he was his
Speaker 1: best efforts, like Reserve Dogs and pulp fiction.
Speaker 2: That's kind of the motif of it. In part.
Speaker 1: That's why I like at the end of the the
Speaker 1: segment that Bruce will this uh segment of pulp fiction.
Speaker 1: That's how the Twilight Zone music kicks in as he's
Speaker 1: like riding away with his girl. We got like Murphy's
Speaker 1: love real thing, just like weird crazy shit happens, you know,
Speaker 1: like he uh and like that, Yeah, that's how it
Speaker 1: goes down. Tim Ross an interesting guy too, like that.
Speaker 1: That movie's really well cast. And that's before people don't
Speaker 1: realize Steve boemy it. He didn't start getting good roles
Speaker 1: as he'll relative late in life. You know, what's an
Speaker 1: interesting movie in terms of the cast.
Speaker 3: He was he was New York he was New York
Speaker 3: City Fire Department.
Speaker 2: Yes, sir. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The movie Tales from the Dark Side from nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: The wrap around story is Debbie Harry. It's got James
Speaker 1: Remark from The Warriors, It's got Steve Buscemi. It's got
Speaker 1: David Johansson, who admittedly that was like I lost a
Speaker 1: new respect for when he started doing that faggett fucking
Speaker 1: buster point extra shit.
Speaker 2: But it's weird. He's in the movie.
Speaker 1: Film's got a great cast. It's got Julianne Moore in
Speaker 1: an early role, and it's round up by Raydon Seong uh
Speaker 1: and Christian Slater and I, of whom I are particularly good.
Speaker 1: But and so I saw it with my mom because
Speaker 1: my mom loved horror movies, you know, and the Tales
Speaker 1: from the Dark Side the movie, which is kind of
Speaker 1: like the it was kind of like the unofficial Creep
Speaker 1: Show three, but uh it's not. But creep Show is
Speaker 1: way better. But the the James Remar segment of it,
Speaker 1: it's predictable, but there's like these incredible practical effects, like
Speaker 1: Raydon Sean turns into this gargoyle and it's really gruesome
Speaker 1: and she like mutates. It's like really well done, and
Speaker 1: I I I got a saw spot for it because
Speaker 1: it's one of the movies I too. My mom, Holy shit,
Speaker 1: you hear that there's a huge thunderclip is no, but
Speaker 1: that's that's a sign from God. I gotta eat a
Speaker 1: blt And it's weird, man. Because I sent the manuscript
Speaker 1: off yesterday, I forgot to include the table of contents,
Speaker 1: so like I had to do that this morning. But
Speaker 1: I keep on thinking, like, Okay, I gotta go work
Speaker 1: on the manuscript and it's like, no, I don't. It's done,
Speaker 1: but I'm I'm starting on something new though, if I
Speaker 1: got the energy this week before we go to Virginia,
Speaker 1: and like I said, I'm hoping within six or eight months,
Speaker 1: so I've I have something else in the pipeline. I
Speaker 1: gotta I got to help our dear friend Mike and
Speaker 1: see if he wants to continue with steel Storm, because
Speaker 1: I think that's a better fit for a period press.
Speaker 1: But any event, I'll let you go.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: I love to missus Q And yeah, well I'll see
Speaker 1: you in a few days, man, And yeah, I'll hit
Speaker 1: you up by chext Man Absolutely all right, Thank you,
Speaker 1: thank you everybody.