Speaker 1: Big Food and Beyond with Cliff and Bobo. These guys
Speaker 1: are your favorites, so like say subscribe and raid it
Speaker 1: five star and greatest on Yesterday listening watching Limb always
Speaker 1: keep its watching. And now your hosts Cliff Berrickman and
Speaker 1: James Bubo Fay, Hey Bubo. How are you doing today?
Speaker 2: Man?
Speaker 3: All right? How's it going to Cliff?
Speaker 1: Pretty good? This is gonna be a good one.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: This is a really exciting podcast today because our guest
Speaker 1: today is Adam Thorne. Adam Thorne is a legit biologist,
Speaker 1: a totally legit biologist. He has a TV show on
Speaker 1: History Channel. I think the Two Seasons is out or
Speaker 1: two Seasons are out right now. King of Pain is
Speaker 1: what it's called. And what a crazy concept for this.
Speaker 1: And they basically get stung and bit by horrible things
Speaker 1: and they say, now there's the there's like a pain scaled.
Speaker 1: Did you know this?
Speaker 3: Bobo? Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally yeah.
Speaker 1: And they try to see, like does it match up
Speaker 1: to the pain scale. It's like, well, like, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I guess I should ask Adam about all that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, but it seems like I don't know. I'd
Speaker 1: be more interested in doing a TV show, like does
Speaker 1: it match up to the pleasure scale? So yeah, this
Speaker 1: is this is fantastic, you know. But yeah, Adam Thorne,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for spending some time with Bobo
Speaker 1: and I on Bigfoot and Beyond. We really appreciate your time.
Speaker 2: Well, Adam, hey mate, how you going. I'm excited to
Speaker 2: be on it here because I actually listened to the
Speaker 2: podcast all the time and I've had I've had the
Speaker 2: introest on to Bigfoot and Beyond in my head for days.
Speaker 2: It always gets stuck in my head. It's so catchy.
Speaker 2: You're like the you're like the scientist like version of Jackass.
Speaker 2: It seems like huh yeah, apparently.
Speaker 1: Well you know that's a good that's a fun TV show,
Speaker 1: uh premise and and like, well, let's first, let's start
Speaker 1: with your your qualifications. You are a legit biologist, you're
Speaker 1: a working biologists. I was looking at your website and
Speaker 1: you do consultations and you do survey wildlife surveys, you
Speaker 1: do all sorts of stuff. So tell us little b
Speaker 1: about your biological background if you would.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I have a degree in wildlife biology, a diploma
Speaker 2: in primatology, and a few qualifications from regarding primatology from
Speaker 2: like Kyota University and Duke University as well. Basically, I've
Speaker 2: done environmental consultations, so fauna surveying, and also what I
Speaker 2: do in Perth is fauna relocation. So when they're bulldozing
Speaker 2: save for example, a bushland area to build houses, I'll
Speaker 2: go out trap the animals and relocate them to a
Speaker 2: safer area, but also do consultations. And around Perth we
Speaker 2: have kind of these black cockatoos which are endangered species
Speaker 2: of birds, so I'll do nesting stuff with them, go
Speaker 2: out into the desert in the pilbri and Western Australia
Speaker 2: and done tagging quolls things like that, and now kings
Speaker 2: are where I get bitten and stung by stuff. So yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's an interesting job.
Speaker 1: No, whose idea was that TV show?
Speaker 2: It wasn't mine. I've done wildlife documentaries and stuff in
Speaker 2: the past, and then like production company reached out to
Speaker 2: me and said, I've got an idea for a show.
Speaker 2: Can you fly out to LA. So I flew out
Speaker 2: to LA and they told me the premise of the
Speaker 2: show and I was like, oh, okay. I thought it
Speaker 2: was like a wildlife show, like a sort of more
Speaker 2: traditional wildlife show. But then I figured, well, I get
Speaker 2: bitten and stung by animals all the time anyway, I
Speaker 2: may as well do it for TV and create a
Speaker 2: pain index around that, and you know, entertained people and
Speaker 2: people laugh their asses off.
Speaker 3: Hum.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you decided to do this? Did you know?
Speaker 1: Your your your partner in crime, you're your co hosts
Speaker 1: there Keeveman is that what you guys call him?
Speaker 2: Yeah, caveman Robiliver and no, I didn't. So when they
Speaker 2: flew me out, it was to do the chemistry test
Speaker 2: pretty much see who who got along the most, and
Speaker 2: Rob and I just got on like we'd known each
Speaker 2: other for years and we're pretty much my best friends
Speaker 2: now from it now, speed to him every day. So
Speaker 2: it was really cool, like to have such a cool
Speaker 2: co host that I didn't know from a bar of
Speaker 2: soap when I first met him, but now it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: just best mates.
Speaker 3: Yeah, people know from listening, people know from listening to us.
Speaker 4: We talked enlessly about how you become a family, like
Speaker 4: the crew, like the camera people, the producers.
Speaker 3: You get so tight you're.
Speaker 4: On the road together and living together and working all
Speaker 4: day and night you get you get really close to them.
Speaker 2: You want to get along with the crew, especially spending
Speaker 2: so much time together. If you didn't, then it'll just
Speaker 2: be like, oh this is the night.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're recically living with these people. They become family.
Speaker 1: And so you've done two seasons so far of King
Speaker 1: of Pin. The last one was in twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: I believe, or is there are there is there any
Speaker 1: talk right now of coming back or is it just
Speaker 1: like hiatus until further notice? Because I did notice there
Speaker 1: was a gap in time between season one and two.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, after season one, COVID sort of hit
Speaker 2: like pretty much within a few months of finishing up
Speaker 2: on season one, and then as far as I was
Speaker 2: aware that was Kings of Pain done, it was over with.
Speaker 2: And then randomly I got an email saying this was
Speaker 2: like two years later, Hey, we're doing a season two.
Speaker 2: What animals you want? Wow? Okay. But because COVID was
Speaker 2: still a thing still happening, we couldn't travel around the
Speaker 2: world for season two like we did in season one.
Speaker 2: So I was in LA for three months filming the
Speaker 2: second season, So we brought the animals to us rather
Speaker 2: than going out and catching them in the wild. It
Speaker 2: was more of like an unboxing thing, like you know,
Speaker 2: what do we have in store for us today? It
Speaker 2: opened the box and be like, oh, it's a giant tarantler. Awesome.
Speaker 1: So of all the beasts and critters and creepy Crawley's
Speaker 1: and hugly googlies and all these things that you've had
Speaker 1: to deal with to let them sink their fangs or
Speaker 1: whatever into you again. I mean everyone has to ask,
Speaker 1: of course, which one do you look back on and
Speaker 1: say that was the most screwed up thing I've ever
Speaker 1: done in my life. I never want to do that again.
Speaker 1: I was an idiot for thinking they would do that.
Speaker 2: The sixteen foot reticulated python was a mistake. Yeah, that
Speaker 2: was bad like that. I needed staple stitches like it.
Speaker 2: The scar in my arm, I mean, it's an awesome scar.
Speaker 2: I love it and I don't regret it just for
Speaker 2: that because it's such a gnary sky looks like I've
Speaker 2: been hit by a bow propeller. But my co host
Speaker 2: cave Man, when he got bit one of the teeth,
Speaker 2: because particularly pythons like have about one hundred teeth that
Speaker 2: are like needle sharp, and these ones were you know,
Speaker 2: probably the best part of an inch long. So it
Speaker 2: punctured Caveman Robs on the nerve in his arm and
Speaker 2: gave him permanent nerve damage, so he can't really move
Speaker 2: his pinky finger and it goes cold because it's not
Speaker 2: great circulation, so he's got permanent damage from it. And
Speaker 2: from then on we're like, well, that was the after
Speaker 2: season one, that was like the top of the pain
Speaker 2: index because of the permanent damage and just the damage
Speaker 2: in general. But we said, if we get anywhere close
Speaker 2: to the reticulated python, we've made a mistake, right, And
Speaker 2: then we beat the reticulated python in season two. That
Speaker 2: was really Yes, that was a Mexican beaded lizard. So
Speaker 2: you've heard of a helo monster, very venomous heloderm. The
Speaker 2: beaded lizard is in the same genus and sort of
Speaker 2: the same venom as well, and it's one of the
Speaker 2: only sort of group of lizards that have apart from
Speaker 2: your monoitor lizards. But there still needs to be a
Speaker 2: bit more work done on their venom. But these are
Speaker 2: like as venomouses can be, and like, it was unbelievable.
Speaker 2: I've never experienced pain like that, and it lasted days
Speaker 2: and days. I was vomiting in and out of consciousness.
Speaker 2: It was really bad.
Speaker 3: Well worse than a bullet out.
Speaker 2: Huh oh mate. The bullet ant like is actually, if
Speaker 2: you go on our pain indexes is pretty low compared
Speaker 2: to some of the other stuff we did. Like it's
Speaker 2: I would do all I would do ten bullet ants
Speaker 2: for three days straight. Overdoing the Mexican beaded lizard again.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: We had Pat Spein on the broadcast and he was
Speaker 1: describing the bullet ant ceremony that he had to go through,
Speaker 1: and he said that he's never experienced anything like it.
Speaker 1: And you're saying that, like, well, there's way worse things
Speaker 1: than that out there. I don't think Pat would would
Speaker 1: like to hear that.
Speaker 2: I think, well. I mean, the thing is, when Justin
Speaker 2: Schmidt did the bullet an, he rated at top of
Speaker 2: his Justin Schmidt's pain index. He's a very well known entomologist.
Speaker 2: So when people see that, they go, okay, well, that
Speaker 2: must be the worst stinging in there is. But that
Speaker 2: was just within the group of Harmanatra, which is like bees,
Speaker 2: wasps and ants. There are like, yeah, there's so much more,
Speaker 2: you know, we did scorpion fish, lionfish. We did lots
Speaker 2: of vertebrates, especially on season two, but we also covered
Speaker 2: Justin Schmidt's pain index as well and did a lot
Speaker 2: of the invertebrates that he did, and we found that
Speaker 2: there were animals that beat like our insects that beat
Speaker 2: the bullet and hands down. I mean we had well.
Speaker 2: The king horrid king assassin bug was another invertebrate that
Speaker 2: was I've never felt and that was the most acute
Speaker 2: pain I've ever felt in my life.
Speaker 3: The horror King assassin bad.
Speaker 2: Dude, you got to see this thing. It looks like
Speaker 2: daf mal. The horrid King Assassin bug is found in Africa,
Speaker 2: and it's like red and black. It's huge, and it's
Speaker 2: got this giant proboscus that just like just causes unbelievable
Speaker 2: pain and then just sort of like melts your skin
Speaker 2: from the in thought out.
Speaker 1: Well with the name like horrid King Assassin bug, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're not making stuffed animals out of those sort of things.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: That's not that you don't think of hugs when you
Speaker 1: when you hear that, you hear that name.
Speaker 2: It's always if you know what you're in for, that's
Speaker 2: for sure.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's a picture of They do kind of
Speaker 1: look like Darth Maul red, like orange and black and everything.
Speaker 1: That's pretty yeah, that's pretty nuts. So I'm looking over
Speaker 1: this list, you know, I'm looking over the list of
Speaker 1: episodes here. It's on Wikipedia for King of Payne and
Speaker 1: one of the things that caught my eye. And I've
Speaker 1: always been kind of curious about this because, you know,
Speaker 1: I grew up in southern California, and I was always
Speaker 1: on the fishing boats, you know, fishing Catalina and Clementian,
Speaker 1: those islands and stuff. I just love to saltwater fish
Speaker 1: and one of the things we would catch every once
Speaker 1: in a while are mantis shrimp, and they're just so
Speaker 1: beautiful but so dangerous at the same time. Tell me about,
Speaker 1: just for my own personal, you know, interest in these animals.
Speaker 1: Tell me about the manus shrimp experience you had.
Speaker 2: Well, Saysan two. Was cool because we weren't just doing
Speaker 2: things that can bite and sting. We're doing things that
Speaker 2: had sort of a weird defense mechanism. And I don't
Speaker 2: want to stress defense mechanism. None of these animals wanted
Speaker 2: to buy to a sting us. We had to really
Speaker 2: try to get them to do so. So it's not
Speaker 2: like I don't want to. We didn't want to demonize
Speaker 2: these animals at all. But the we did the peacock, mantis, shrimp,
Speaker 2: and it's well, it's not a peacock, it's not a mantis,
Speaker 2: and it's not a shrimp either, so it's kind of
Speaker 2: a weird name, but they are. It was one of
Speaker 2: the coolest things that we added onto the pain index
Speaker 2: because just everything about it, the speed in which it
Speaker 2: punches breaks the sound barrier, like multiple times over, it
Speaker 2: forms cavitation bubbles like, it creates light. There is that
Speaker 2: much energy and friction in the water it creates light,
Speaker 2: which is insane. Well, we got to put this thing
Speaker 2: on and I've seen videos of them punching through people's
Speaker 2: like wet suit boots and into their foot and then
Speaker 2: you know, blood and stuff come out. So like, okay,
Speaker 2: this has to be we got to do this. So
Speaker 2: it took a while to get the thing to punch
Speaker 2: because you know, it's in a new environment. It was
Speaker 2: taken out of it It was a captive one anyway,
Speaker 2: but it was taken out of it's you know, what
Speaker 2: it's used to and put into like a tank for
Speaker 2: the camera, so I just wanted to get away. But
Speaker 2: we finally got it to punch, and I was like,
Speaker 2: it didn't get a good punch in because it was
Speaker 2: like sort of we're a bit too close to it
Speaker 2: where it couldn't get a full reach on us. But
Speaker 2: even the punch that it did get on us, I
Speaker 2: couldn't believe it. I was like, what the hell, Like
Speaker 2: it hit me so fast that I didn't register that
Speaker 2: it hit me. I was like, what was that? And
Speaker 2: there was a big indent in my finger, and I
Speaker 2: was like, that was one of the coolest things ever. Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it hurt, but it was just so cool to feel something,
Speaker 2: you know, six or seven inches long produce a punch
Speaker 2: that would be like you know, someone shooting a bbpel
Speaker 2: into your finger. It was amazing. It was like that.
Speaker 2: The trigeel was like that as well, whereas just you're
Speaker 2: an absolute awe of an animal that can generate power
Speaker 2: like that.
Speaker 1: I imagine a couple people are out there thinking that
Speaker 1: are thinking that, Okay, well you're are you harassing these
Speaker 1: animals into, you know, doing something they don't want to do,
Speaker 1: But there's benefit to what you're doing, Like whether it's
Speaker 1: anti venom or other other sort of sciencey sort of things.
Speaker 1: Can you talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were worried about that because obviously, if an
Speaker 2: animal is biting or stinging of something, you have to
Speaker 2: get it to the point where it feels threatened and
Speaker 2: has to defend itself like that. So there is and
Speaker 2: we try to reduce that as much as possible by
Speaker 2: having multiple animals, so we're not just like because some
Speaker 2: animals just will refuse to bite a sting you and
Speaker 2: then you'll swap it out of another one that's ready
Speaker 2: and ready to go. So like with working with any wildlife,
Speaker 2: there is an element of stress to it. But what
Speaker 2: we found was people instead, Like we were worried that
Speaker 2: we will demonize the animals because people make people scared
Speaker 2: of them. But if they get bitten and stung by
Speaker 2: one of these animals, you know, a tarantula hawk or
Speaker 2: something like that, which there's plenty of them around the US,
Speaker 2: instead of them going am I going to die? This
Speaker 2: hurts so much? They can go well. I saw in
Speaker 2: Kings of Pain that yes, it hurts really bad for
Speaker 2: a few minutes, and then other than that, you know,
Speaker 2: disregarding if they go into anaphylaxis from an allergic reaction
Speaker 2: or something like that. But apart from that, it's just
Speaker 2: going to be pain. We've seen on Kings of Pain.
Speaker 2: No need to worry because stress and panicking can kill
Speaker 2: a lot of people driving to the hospital speeding because
Speaker 2: they think they're going to die. Like well, we saw
Speaker 2: in that show Kings of Pain that yes it hurts,
Speaker 2: and you think you're going to die, but you're not.
Speaker 2: So it can you know, give people a bit of
Speaker 2: peace of mind at least, but also give people like
Speaker 2: looking at the animal and seeing what they are capable of,
Speaker 2: people will give them a wide berth, you know, respect them.
Speaker 2: Go Okay, well I'm not going to go, you know,
Speaker 2: grabbing this thing or anything like that, because I just
Speaker 2: saw what it did to these two dudes. I don't
Speaker 2: want anything to do with it. We're just going to
Speaker 2: leave it alone. That's why the reticulated path of people.
Speaker 2: I won't to get bitten by reticulated python. Nobody's going
Speaker 2: to encounter one of them in the wild. No they won't.
Speaker 2: But like there's plenty kept in captivity, but most of
Speaker 2: them are super tame, but you know, the odd one
Speaker 2: will bite you. No, there's no venom. There is a
Speaker 2: lot of damage. But if you do come across a
Speaker 2: large python, probably best you just leave it alone. It's
Speaker 2: good for the python and it's good for the person
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
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Speaker 1: See website for full details, restrictions and important safety information. Well,
Speaker 1: you have a podcast, We should probably plug that a
Speaker 1: little bit. It's called Thorn's Jungle, and it's not a
Speaker 1: regular weekly sort of thing. We were talking before we
Speaker 1: started recording. Apparently just kind of put it out whenever
Speaker 1: you have a good episode and it's worth it. But
Speaker 1: and you delve into lots of different topics on your podcasts,
Speaker 1: and I was kind of scrolling through, I see something
Speaker 1: on orangutans. And you're also interested in cryptozoology, which of
Speaker 1: course jives really well with what we're doing here Bigfoot
Speaker 1: and Beyond and living in Australia on the West Coast
Speaker 1: of Australia there, I'd be remiss if I didn't ask
Speaker 1: you about if you are aware of any yowi sightings
Speaker 1: or yaowi encounters in your neighborhood.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I love cryptozoology. I always have. I've
Speaker 2: always been fascinated by it, and I've always been going, okay,
Speaker 2: this one is most likely to maybe exist, this one
Speaker 2: maybe not so much. And there are a few that
Speaker 2: I go okay, this is there is you know, a
Speaker 2: good chance that this animal does exist, and we with
Speaker 2: the yowi for example, most of the sightings are sort
Speaker 2: of Eastern states around like the Blue Mountains things like that,
Speaker 2: but there are actually a surprising amount of sightings in
Speaker 2: Western Australia around sort of like the Jaredale area in
Speaker 2: West which is only about thirty forty minute drive from
Speaker 2: where I am, and I was looking through the Yowi
Speaker 2: website where they log the sightings, and I couldn't believe
Speaker 2: how many sightings there were in Western Australia. And you
Speaker 2: know these are people, you know, truck drivers, things like that,
Speaker 2: and Australians in general, most of them are they do
Speaker 2: they wake up, do their jobs.
Speaker 3: Come home?
Speaker 2: They don't really. They don't want to be known as
Speaker 2: the guy that saw a yowie. So I tend to
Speaker 2: believe that what they're seeing is something. They're seeing something,
Speaker 2: whether or not it is a giant bipedal comminid or
Speaker 2: whether or not it's it's something else, but they are
Speaker 2: seeing something. So it's definitely interesting. And especially with the
Speaker 2: like the thermal images I've seen with the the Yowi
Speaker 2: Hunters group, some of them thermal images, I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: that that is that's very that's very interesting. So I
Speaker 2: do I do think there's something? Yeah, Yeah, there's something there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And especially like he said, they don't want to
Speaker 4: report it in Western Australa because, as I know, Australians
Speaker 4: are if you're in a report like that, he told
Speaker 4: you your bitch down with the power of your neighbors,
Speaker 4: they're going to take the piss.
Speaker 1: I will say that Australians are a rough and tumble
Speaker 1: breed man. You guys are just heckle each other ruthlessly
Speaker 1: and anybody else within earshot. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's Australians, like our best mates. Like if you
Speaker 2: if you're hanging around your mates and you didn't know
Speaker 2: that will mates, you will think we're worst enemies the
Speaker 2: way we talk to each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very very rough and tumble.
Speaker 3: You don't want to hand out ami because we're already
Speaker 3: shooting enough enough.
Speaker 1: So what other cryptids undiscovered animals do you think that
Speaker 1: there's a reasonable chance or or if you're completely certain
Speaker 1: that they are in existence, what are some other ones
Speaker 1: that really grab your attention?
Speaker 2: I think some of the cryptid apes are definitely interesting
Speaker 2: to me. I am fascinated with Bigfoot, always have been fascinated,
Speaker 2: And I remember seeing the Patterson Gimlin film and going
Speaker 2: first time I saw it, I went as a dude
Speaker 2: in a suit, and then for years that's just what
Speaker 2: I thought. I think that's what the majority of people
Speaker 2: see when they watched that. And then you know, maybe
Speaker 2: ten years ago I was like, well, I'm going to
Speaker 2: have another look at that they'd remastered it and zoomed
Speaker 2: in and I was like, the muscles are rippling, the
Speaker 2: quads are flexing, there's a webbing of skin between under
Speaker 2: the MP I'm like, how did two guys in the
Speaker 2: sixties do this? Like this is actually this is crazy?
Speaker 2: Like and that completely changed my mind about well, the
Speaker 2: Patterson Gimlin film in general, but also Bigfoot, and same
Speaker 2: with the Yooi's as well, Like the amount of sightings
Speaker 2: people are seeing this thing like that you could one
Speaker 2: hundred percent. People say, yes, there is room for mistaken
Speaker 2: identity and people just making up stories. But even if
Speaker 2: zero point zero one percent of sightings is a sasquatch,
Speaker 2: that means there's a sasquatch, you know. That means that
Speaker 2: it exists. So I've always been fascinated with Bigfoot, but
Speaker 2: I love the other cryptid like the o tongue in
Speaker 2: the Naisna Forest in South Africa. I think that is
Speaker 2: super fascinating. The Vietnamese rock apes that were cited throughout
Speaker 2: the Vietnam War, that is very interesting, and I don't
Speaker 2: buy into the oh, they were just hallucinating on opioids
Speaker 2: or whatever. That's insane to me because like hundreds of people,
Speaker 2: dozens were seeing them at the same time. It's like,
Speaker 2: that must be a pretty strong thing if they're all
Speaker 2: having the same hallucinations here. But the one I like
Speaker 2: the most and I'm interested in the most is the
Speaker 2: Irang Pendeck in Sumatra, and that's the that's the cryptid
Speaker 2: I've actually gone out looking for.
Speaker 3: Where'd you look for them?
Speaker 2: Gooding Touju?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, the Lake of Seven Peaks, right same place
Speaker 1: said I went during the episode.
Speaker 2: Actually, yeah, it's a great area. I mean, I love
Speaker 2: the jungle. I spend a lot of time in the jungle.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite place on Earth. I go to the
Speaker 2: Malaysian jungle all the time. But the Sumatran Jungle was
Speaker 2: It was the first jungle I've been into that hasn't
Speaker 2: been like baking hot, humid, so it's kind of a pleasant,
Speaker 2: pleasant change. But it is, man, it is tough jungle.
Speaker 2: It is immense jungle. So I was like, Okay, this
Speaker 2: is going to be a challenge.
Speaker 1: You know what struck me when I was there is
Speaker 1: I didn't see the animals. I heard them. I think
Speaker 1: the entire time I was there, I saw some given
Speaker 1: some signings, I guess across the lake, and from a
Speaker 1: great distance I saw them moving around in the trees.
Speaker 1: And other than that, I saw a flash of brown
Speaker 1: near the forest floor at one point, and I'm still
Speaker 1: not sure what it was. My guide said it was
Speaker 1: a small monkey or something like that. I guess you
Speaker 1: got a better look at it, But I didn't see
Speaker 1: the animal life, although there is sign everywhere, And it
Speaker 1: makes sense because everything in a jungle is either trying
Speaker 1: not to be eaten or trying to eat something else,
Speaker 1: So it makes sense you don't see a lot of
Speaker 1: the animals there unless you know where to look. But yeah,
Speaker 1: jungles are really something. It took a little bit of
Speaker 1: the romance of it away from me. I know you
Speaker 1: said you love jungles, but they are horrid places where
Speaker 1: you can see that you've got to be pretty tough
Speaker 1: to survive.
Speaker 2: Yeah, as soon as you enter a jungle, you're decomposing, essentially,
Speaker 2: the jungles trying to eat you. But you're right, Cliff,
Speaker 2: like jungles, you don't see that many animals. It's surprisingly
Speaker 2: you don't. I mean it's so thick and everything is
Speaker 2: hiding because everything's trying to kill each other. So a
Speaker 2: lot of people think when they go into the jungle
Speaker 2: it's going to be like tropical paradise waterfalls, you know,
Speaker 2: standing there with a bowl constrictor around your neck. It doesn't.
Speaker 2: It's not like that. I mean even in the Bolivian
Speaker 2: jungles is the same as well. I mean there is
Speaker 2: lots of species, different species, but individually each one of
Speaker 2: them species is so hard to see. The only animals
Speaker 2: I saw there was me spoiler alot. I didn't see
Speaker 2: a ring pen deck, but I did see see a man.
Speaker 2: I did see sumatrans surreally, which is might what might
Speaker 2: have been the monkey that you caught a glimpse of
Speaker 2: cliff a sou Martians surreally. They're kind of like a
Speaker 2: roofusy brown color and they're endemnic to smart, so they're
Speaker 2: actually a really cool monkey to see in general. But no,
Speaker 2: I didn't see the irrang pen deck, and but I
Speaker 2: did find potential evidence of it, and pretty cool evidence.
Speaker 1: So well, tell us about that, Like, what were you
Speaker 1: doing at the time and what did you find?
Speaker 2: Well, it was just me and a guide, and this
Speaker 2: guide doesn't he's never done taking someone out looking for
Speaker 2: a rain pen deck. Before he was sort of surprised.
Speaker 3: This wasn't for TV. This was just like a personal trip.
Speaker 3: You don't have a camera crew.
Speaker 2: Just a personal trip. I went, I'm going to smartra,
Speaker 2: I'm going to look for it. I do it all
Speaker 2: the time, just head off to the juggle by myself.
Speaker 2: And I was like, Okay, well, this is going to
Speaker 2: be cool because it's Sumatra, cool jungle, and I've I
Speaker 2: can look for this for this, for this ape. And
Speaker 2: I don't think there is a chance on earth that
Speaker 2: you're going to find something with a large group of
Speaker 2: people or talking and things like that. I think that
Speaker 2: that will yeah, it will be so so hard. So
Speaker 2: I was like, okay, just two people, me and a guide.
Speaker 2: And my guy didn't really he didn't. He wasn't a
Speaker 2: skeptic about Iran pen deck, but he was under the
Speaker 2: impression that it was an animal and it's probably extinct now,
Speaker 2: which might be the case, who knows, but well maybe
Speaker 2: not because I found footprints of it. But he was
Speaker 2: sort of like he pulled me aside and he was like, look,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but we're probably not going to find this thing.
Speaker 2: And I was like, I know that, I know there
Speaker 2: is no chance that I'm going to see this thing
Speaker 2: like it will be so rare. And from then on
Speaker 2: he was like, oh, thank you for saying that, because
Speaker 2: he was under pressure, like oh, you've got to find
Speaker 2: this guy at the Iran Pendeck and he was like, okad,
Speaker 2: I can't do that. So after that he was like,
Speaker 2: all right, cool. It was a relief for him. But
Speaker 2: I've spent a week in that jungle. And we went
Speaker 2: over to the other side of the lake, the flooded
Speaker 2: cold Era, and we're trying on the other side, and
Speaker 2: I found a few footprints that I was like, well,
Speaker 2: it shows signs of you know what a ring Pendec
Speaker 2: footprint is said to look like from a lot of
Speaker 2: the casts I've seen. A lot of the ones I
Speaker 2: look at is sort of like the Adam Davies cast,
Speaker 2: and I know there's been a lot of conjecture it
Speaker 2: might be a handprint or whatever. So I was sort
Speaker 2: of like, all right, well that's what I'm looking out
Speaker 2: for a footprint like that. I found a few ambiguous
Speaker 2: ones and I was like, well, I'm not going to
Speaker 2: say for sure what that is, because it is it
Speaker 2: could be tape, your footprints overlapping. Then the last day
Speaker 2: I was there, we had about an hour before we
Speaker 2: got an to the canoes and headed back across the
Speaker 2: lake because there was weather coming. You know, you got
Speaker 2: you know what Karinchi is like, it rains all the time,
Speaker 2: you know, on and off. My guide was up machetting
Speaker 2: away a path through and I'd found a bird's nest
Speaker 2: on the floor. So I was looking through it and
Speaker 2: I was filming myself and I was like, you know,
Speaker 2: you can find hairs in birds nests because birds use
Speaker 2: the hairs to build their nest. And as soon as
Speaker 2: I said that, I looked over and about six feet
Speaker 2: away is this print. I was like, wow, walked over
Speaker 2: to it, and it was just like obvious to me
Speaker 2: I said this. I was like, I said this to myself.
Speaker 2: If I was in Uganda and saw that, I would say,
Speaker 2: that's just a chimpanzee footprint. But I'm in Sumatra. There
Speaker 2: are no chimpanzees. There's no orangutans in that area either,
Speaker 2: as far as we know. I couldn't believe. I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: that is exactly what I've been looking for. And then
Speaker 2: there was a whole trail of footprints from there, and
Speaker 2: it was like you could see how this thing had walked.
Speaker 2: It had walked bent saplings over us, like sort of
Speaker 2: part of them. As it walked. There was slide marks
Speaker 2: where it had slipped on a bit of rotting fruit,
Speaker 2: and then there was like a big leaf where it
Speaker 2: had kicked mud up as it walked. And my guide
Speaker 2: come over and I showed him and he was like, well,
Speaker 2: what the hell, because again he was on the fence
Speaker 2: about whether or not the Rangpendex still exists or exists
Speaker 2: in first place, and he was so confused by it,
Speaker 2: and just seeing his face and his curiosity, and he
Speaker 2: actually found more tracks as well. As we walked. It's
Speaker 2: that same old thing, mate. I didn't have time to
Speaker 2: cast it, and it was the rain was coming in.
Speaker 2: We were just about to leave. It was the last
Speaker 2: sort of day. But what I did, I got my
Speaker 2: camera and filmed all the inside of it and all
Speaker 2: around and that when I got back to Perth, I
Speaker 2: converted that into a full three D image of it,
Speaker 2: because it separates them into images and makes this really
Speaker 2: cool three D thing and you can even look at
Speaker 2: the underneath, so you can see the impression from the underneath.
Speaker 2: And that was like, that was amazing. I was like, Wow,
Speaker 2: this is six and then I got it printed out
Speaker 2: three D printed out because I was like, I'm getting
Speaker 2: that cast. I'm going to cast the three D print.
Speaker 2: And then I was like, I'm probably going to ruin
Speaker 2: the three D print if I cast it, but it
Speaker 2: actually came out.
Speaker 1: Describe the hypothetical foot that made that impression.
Speaker 2: Well, it looks I mean, I've got four potential at
Speaker 2: ring Pendet casts here that have been cast by other people,
Speaker 2: and it looks closest to the Adam Davies cast, but
Speaker 2: a more prominent, divergent big toe like it looks like
Speaker 2: almost it looks like almost chimpanzee. I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: a whole lot different to the other cast, but it's
Speaker 2: still different. Does have like a bigger toe, longer than
Speaker 2: the other cast I've seen, But I was thinking a
Speaker 2: lot my feet compared to a couple of my mate's feet,
Speaker 2: Like my mate's feet look like flippers, their toes are
Speaker 2: as long as fingers, and like my toes don't look
Speaker 2: like that. So there is obviously going to be each
Speaker 2: individual have different toes. To some extent.
Speaker 4: On this podcast, we say halex not big totals we're
Speaker 4: learned men of science.
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, so yeah, it looks different, but not
Speaker 2: stupidly different. And then I sent the three D image
Speaker 2: to doctor Jeff Meldrem as you would, and he said,
Speaker 2: well it looks. It was like, looks interesting. It does,
Speaker 2: and it was like impressed with the three D image
Speaker 2: of it, was like, wow, that's actually pretty cool. It
Speaker 2: was like, looks looks kind of like a handprint. And
Speaker 2: I was thinking, it does, absolutely, but unless this thing
Speaker 2: was walking by a handstand through the jung, it's probably not.
Speaker 2: It's probably I'll say it's a footprint. But then I
Speaker 2: was thinking, well, what has feet? You know, simang have
Speaker 2: long toes. But if you actually see them and gibbons
Speaker 2: walk bipedally when they're on the floor, thirteen percent of
Speaker 2: their locomotion is bipeded locomotion. They're the most bipedal primate
Speaker 2: apart from humans. And if you actually see when they walk,
Speaker 2: they tuck that in when they walk, or they haven't
Speaker 2: splayed out as they walk, depending on the surface. So
Speaker 2: when I was thinking like, well, some of the prince
Speaker 2: people find they describe more like human prints. When gibbons
Speaker 2: tuck the halex in, it almost lines up with the
Speaker 2: other toes, so it would look like a foot like
Speaker 2: it wouldn't have the halex pointing out the side like that,
Speaker 2: and they do walk with it out, and that could
Speaker 2: explain why we're finding prints that have the halex pointing
Speaker 2: out of that and also could blame why sometimes it
Speaker 2: resembles a human food. And obviously being a walking you'd say,
Speaker 2: as an obligate biped it would tuck that in so
Speaker 2: it doesn't get caught on sticks and things like that.
Speaker 2: And also the toes wouldn't be as long as other
Speaker 2: gibbons toes because it it's not completely arboreal. I would
Speaker 2: say it would still be arboreal, but not to the
Speaker 2: point where it's in trees most of its life. So
Speaker 2: that's why the theory come to me that maybe this
Speaker 2: thing isn't a bipedal orangutan that a lot of people
Speaker 2: described as, but more of a robust, more terrestrial type
Speaker 2: of gibbon. And once I thought about that, I was
Speaker 2: like that it makes sense because also the descriptions of
Speaker 2: irang pendeck. The varying color of hair was also interesting
Speaker 2: as well, because we know gibbons, especially the lar gibbn
Speaker 2: it can be from jet black to like a bright
Speaker 2: blonde color. And it's not a sexual dimorphism thing there.
Speaker 2: It's both male and female can be that color. And
Speaker 2: Iringpendex been described as being either like sometimes black, sometimes
Speaker 2: a chestnutty brown, sometimes blonde. So well that that that
Speaker 2: is interesting, like and that's what made me sort of
Speaker 2: start to think that maybe it is a type of given.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bogo will be right back after these messages. It's a
Speaker 1: very interesting idea. I mean, gibbons are plentiful in Somatra
Speaker 1: and I'll probably author out Indonesia. I don't know, but
Speaker 1: it makes sense that, yeah, okay, there's a there's an
Speaker 1: ecological niche open for some sort of you know, some
Speaker 1: terrestrial advantage that that you know, give them, I don't know,
Speaker 1: give them millionaires. I'll figure it out. You know, there's
Speaker 1: a reason why they can't be a bipedal because they
Speaker 1: they've been seen in trees, and they're obviously very good
Speaker 1: at up in trees. I ring Pendex set is, but
Speaker 1: why not why not have them walking around on the ground.
Speaker 1: That's a very interesting theory. It'll be interesting to see
Speaker 1: how that pans out with future research.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because another thing as well is like, well, why
Speaker 2: would it be a volved to be terrestrial with there's
Speaker 2: still a threat of tigers because we know that so
Speaker 2: march and orangutans are way more are boyal than born
Speaker 2: in orangutans because of the present the presence of tigers.
Speaker 2: But just because there's a predator in the area doesn't
Speaker 2: necessarily wouldn't necessarily cause it to evolve any differently. I mean,
Speaker 2: humans are bipedal and there's still plenty of predators. Even
Speaker 2: when we were, you know, living in the savannah and
Speaker 2: we are bipedal and there were still predators, So it
Speaker 2: wouldn't really make a difference in the like in the
Speaker 2: evolution of the anatomy of this animal. And then you know,
Speaker 2: you look at something like Ardipithecus. It still had that
Speaker 2: opposable hallix that displayed grasping big toe, and it was
Speaker 2: an obligate biped but also spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: in trees. And I feel the same way about a
Speaker 2: ring pendeck. Yeah, it's been sighted up trees, absolutely, but yeah,
Speaker 2: it would be it's just because it has that opposable
Speaker 2: howlex doesn't necessarily mean it's not an obligate biped don't
Speaker 2: spend the most of its time walking on two legs
Speaker 2: through the jungle. Because we look in the past there
Speaker 2: are animals that have had feet like that and were
Speaker 2: obligate bipeds well.
Speaker 1: And of course in bipedalism started in the trees. It's
Speaker 1: now a thought that that's the origins of bipedalism, is
Speaker 1: walking on branches on two legs while using their arms
Speaker 1: to steady themselves on other branches and things. And you
Speaker 1: mentioned something a few moments ago. It kind of hinted
Speaker 1: at something, and I wanted to follow up on that
Speaker 1: a little bit. Now, sameings have pretty long toes for
Speaker 1: grabbing on trees and whatnot. And though the ring Pindeck
Speaker 1: casts that we were able to obtain through the ring
Speaker 1: Pindeck project, they seem to have shorter, stubbier toes, which
Speaker 1: would make sense for a biped of this sort. Did
Speaker 1: you find that to be true on the footprints you
Speaker 1: found as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the toes on mine are still short. The
Speaker 2: toes are like probably consistent with the other cast, except
Speaker 2: for the halls. It's longer than what I've seen in
Speaker 2: the other casts, but that could be just like depending
Speaker 2: on how the animal is walking, what terrain is walking on,
Speaker 2: could just be tucked in more in some of the
Speaker 2: casts and splayed out more like it is in my cast,
Speaker 2: my three D print. If you look at videos of
Speaker 2: gibbons walking, it is like sometimes completely tucked in, sometimes
Speaker 2: fully out. I think depending on how far it's tucked in, well,
Speaker 2: you know, because we'll still poke out to a certain degree,
Speaker 2: may make the toe look shorter or longer depending on
Speaker 2: how far it's played out. I mean, I'm not a
Speaker 2: foot expert, but that some of the casts I have
Speaker 2: are like if I trace that aleck's back like well
Speaker 2: you would, you wouldn't really able to be fully seen
Speaker 2: an impression if it's tucked in, because it'll be so
Speaker 2: tucked up against the side. It'd be very hard to
Speaker 2: see that in a In a foot cast, you know
Speaker 2: the gap that that toad would would have if it
Speaker 2: was tucked in more. But who knows. Like I said,
Speaker 2: with people, the difference between toads are crazy big for cast.
Speaker 4: Their toes definitely spell out, like when you know they're
Speaker 4: going up or downhill or muddy. If it's muddy terrain,
Speaker 4: the toes splay out a lot more and look longer.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And another thing as well, when I was interviewing
Speaker 2: a witness. We didn't pay him anything. We didn't pay
Speaker 2: him a cent. He was just a real He was
Speaker 2: an old neighbor of my guy, and he was like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think one of my old neighbors saw one. So
Speaker 2: I went to his house and was talking to him
Speaker 2: about it. He got a really good sighting of one.
Speaker 2: Like five minutes. He was watching this thing. This was
Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty, and the way it was describing I
Speaker 2: was like, Wow, this is amazing. This guy saw it.
Speaker 2: This guy saw in a ring pendeck and then it
Speaker 2: was calling to another animal over the hill and you
Speaker 2: could hear the response, and I was like, this is gold.
Speaker 2: This is great. And then he did the old which
Speaker 2: happens so much with these these cryptid apes for some reason,
Speaker 2: the whole feet pointing backwards thing. And as soon as
Speaker 2: he said that, my it's a weird motif. Yeah, my
Speaker 2: heart kind of sunk. I was like, oh no, because
Speaker 2: I've heard that time time again, and I mean to me,
Speaker 2: it kind of like discredits it a little bit, because
Speaker 2: I think there is it's a very folklorish thing maybe
Speaker 2: where it's feet point backwards so you don't know which
Speaker 2: direction it's going. But I've heard this said before. If
Speaker 2: you see well, for example, gibbons or chimpanzees is like
Speaker 2: walking by Beatley with a halick sticking out like that.
Speaker 2: It looks weird from behind. If you're looking at it
Speaker 2: from behind as it walks and seeing that pointing out,
Speaker 2: it looks like a weird foot like, it looks like
Speaker 2: it looks different, not necessarily pointing backwards, but it looks
Speaker 2: like it's bent in a weird sort of way where
Speaker 2: it's you know, you could mistake that for it pointing backwards.
Speaker 2: That's sort of like what I was, you know, hoping,
Speaker 2: because the it's like, for example, when you use hear
Speaker 2: a bigfoot stuff like oh yeah, great witness. It was
Speaker 2: described perfectly that that's really good sighting. Then all of
Speaker 2: a sudden it got into a UFO and flew off.
Speaker 2: Your heart would sink. You're like, oh no, sort of
Speaker 2: like that when I hear about the feet pointing backwards.
Speaker 2: But there could be an explanation for that.
Speaker 1: You know, that's such a peculiar thing that that is
Speaker 1: a worldwide motif on hairy harmonoids like the yetty the Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like there's so many different unknown ape species that have
Speaker 1: that attribute as part of the yowi too yowie. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just so peculiar that that arose and has become
Speaker 1: part of the gig.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't understand with things like like the
Speaker 2: yowie and stuff of that, because their feet are described
Speaker 2: to be like ours, not that the helix pointing out
Speaker 2: to the site or anything like that, So that wouldn't
Speaker 2: explain why they're saying that it looks like the feet
Speaker 2: are spun around because their feet are said to look
Speaker 2: similar to ours, so that that is a confusing thing. Well,
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense for a lot of the hominids
Speaker 2: that are sighted then.
Speaker 1: So have you seen that footprint cast that Debbie Martyr
Speaker 1: pulled out of Somatra of the ring Pendeck. Have you
Speaker 1: ever seen a photograph of it or anything.
Speaker 2: I've never seen Debbie Martyrs. No, I've read about her
Speaker 2: sighting and everything. I would love to see that cast
Speaker 2: because I've never actually seen it.
Speaker 1: Well, I don't have a really good photograph of it, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: but there is a photograph in doctor Gregory Forth's book
Speaker 1: Images of the Southeast Asian wild Men of that cast,
Speaker 1: and one of the things that stood out to me
Speaker 1: it contrasts really well against the footprints set I was
Speaker 1: able to get through the ring Pindeck project in that
Speaker 1: the Halex the big toe there was quite a bit
Speaker 1: larger and not like more robust, but just longer than
Speaker 1: the ones that I was getting. So it kind of
Speaker 1: sounds like what you're describing here. So I think I
Speaker 1: have a scan of that somewhere in my computer and
Speaker 1: I will be happy to email that to you so
Speaker 1: you can kind of compare yours to it.
Speaker 2: I would love to see that, yeah, because yeah, that
Speaker 2: sounds similar to mine and mine bend's a bit as well,
Speaker 2: like like how a chimpanzee would footprint would as well.
Speaker 2: It curves inwards, which I think there is another cast
Speaker 2: that they call is like the Banana cass or something
Speaker 2: where it does do that. So yeah, that'd be really cool.
Speaker 2: Because Debbie Martyr is i mean, her sighting and the
Speaker 2: stuff she's done with the ring Pendeck. That was one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why I was like, well, this seems
Speaker 2: like a thing that could exist. And then Jeremy Holden
Speaker 2: saw it as well working with Demi Mate. I think
Speaker 2: actually Debbie Singh caught eyes on the irang pandic a
Speaker 2: few times.
Speaker 3: As well, like three.
Speaker 2: I think, wow, Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I mean
Speaker 2: because the way I thought about it, Somatra is huge.
Speaker 2: I mean, there is definitely room for an undiscovered species.
Speaker 2: I mean you look at the Tapannuli orangutan. This orangutan
Speaker 2: was first sighted in like nineteen thirty seven, so they
Speaker 2: knew there was an orangutan population there south of Lake Toober.
Speaker 2: They didn't rEFInd that population until actual it was thirty
Speaker 2: nine when they when they found it, and then ninety
Speaker 2: seven when they rediscovered it. So it took them almost
Speaker 2: sixty years to rediscover this thing, this population of orangutan.
Speaker 3: There's a twenty five hundred rate. Was there over two
Speaker 3: thousand of them?
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in an area a thousand square meat square kilometers,
Speaker 2: the whole entire population exists. And then obviously in twenty
Speaker 2: eighteen with DNA tests they were found to be a
Speaker 2: separate species. But it took them sixty years to refine
Speaker 2: this population in an area one thousand square kilometers, well,
Speaker 2: the area that the irang pen deck is said to
Speaker 2: live in is fourteen thousand square kilometers. So if it
Speaker 2: took them that long to rediscover this population of orangutan,
Speaker 2: you know what chances are you of laying eyes on
Speaker 2: a rang pen deck in an area fourteen thousand square kilometers.
Speaker 2: It's very difficult.
Speaker 4: How do the orangutans are they on the scale of
Speaker 4: like looking for primates, They're pretty They're pretty easy to
Speaker 4: find general, don't they vocalize and things like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can hear them. They'll do long calls things
Speaker 2: like that. You can also find nests in the trees,
Speaker 2: but because they are mostly solitary animals, they're harder to
Speaker 2: find their things like chimpanzees and gorillas, where you'll find
Speaker 2: loads of nests and their ground nests as well well
Speaker 2: for gorillas. But with the orangutans, because it's normally just
Speaker 2: you know, a female and an infant and then like
Speaker 2: a lone male, you really have to just track an
Speaker 2: individual and hopefully you find it. I mean, I found
Speaker 2: one in Borneo, but it was pure accident. It was
Speaker 2: one of the most pleasant surprises I've ever had in
Speaker 2: my life. But I think once you know they're there
Speaker 2: and know where they slept at the night, you can
Speaker 2: track them again, but refinding them because they're spread out,
Speaker 2: you know, over you know, a thousand square kilometers, it
Speaker 2: would be more difficult than your other great apes.
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more Bigfoot and Beyond with Cliff and
Speaker 1: Bogo will be right back after these messages. I did
Speaker 1: ask the head of primatology or the primatology department, I
Speaker 1: think at the Connecticut Zoo, if your orangutan got out
Speaker 1: here in Connecticut, how often would it be seen? And
Speaker 1: his answer was pretty much never, you know, because they'd
Speaker 1: find it again, but it'd be very, very difficult to
Speaker 1: see ever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, how do you spot a two hundred
Speaker 2: pound red like ape up a tree? It's well, you
Speaker 2: do like you.
Speaker 3: Won't in the fall? Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4: Well, just for comparison to there was a I think
Speaker 4: it was six hundred pound tiger was loose in La
Speaker 4: County on the Ventura border, like you know in La
Speaker 4: the hills out north of there, and a three three
Speaker 4: by five mile I think it was three by five
Speaker 4: miles fifteen square mile area. Thing lasted, I mean, with
Speaker 4: millions of people living around there, it made it three
Speaker 4: weeks before they were able to catch it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's an animal you want to catch pretty
Speaker 2: dawn quick.
Speaker 4: The best trackers in California, like ten teams are the
Speaker 4: best tracking teams with dogs.
Speaker 3: They couldn't catch that tire for three weeks in La Jeez. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Tiger's are any animal that lives in a jungle, and
Speaker 2: especially ambush predator. You think it will stand out like
Speaker 2: I saw a thumb being colored like that, but they
Speaker 2: blend in unbelievably. I remember when I was in the
Speaker 2: Malaysian jungle. I was by myself deep in the jungle
Speaker 2: for a week, just sleeping in a tent as you do.
Speaker 2: And one night I was kept on getting woken up
Speaker 2: by something pushing on my head through the tent. And
Speaker 2: I was like, I was, you know, turning on my flashlight, yelling,
Speaker 2: going got away, you got away. But it kept on happening.
Speaker 2: So what is that keep pushing on my head? I'm
Speaker 2: trying to sleep, get up in the morning, walk out,
Speaker 2: and there's like gigantic tiger footprints all around my tent.
Speaker 2: Oh no, oh god, this thing is having a sniff
Speaker 2: of me through the tent.
Speaker 1: It's good that you didn't smell delicious, I know.
Speaker 2: I would have smelled horror. I smell horrible, like just
Speaker 2: to myself. I could smell myself a mile away.
Speaker 1: You know it's bad when you can smell yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like, oh I love to smell on my
Speaker 2: own broue. No, I don't. Not this time I was.
Speaker 2: I was swimming in the river as well because of
Speaker 2: that stank. I was swimming in the river, and I'd
Speaker 2: set up my camera to do like the auto photo
Speaker 2: thing of me so I could get a photo me
Speaker 2: swimming in this river, Like, oh yeah, that's a good photo.
Speaker 2: Get back to the tent, have a look at it.
Speaker 2: I'm like, wait, what's that in the background. Zoom in
Speaker 2: and there's a massive false garil, which is a large
Speaker 2: crocodilion right behind me.
Speaker 3: No, oh gosh, damn, that's the hell out of me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think I would have swam in that
Speaker 1: river knowing that it was were there not a bit It.
Speaker 3: Was in the water on the land.
Speaker 2: It was in the water like six feet behind me.
Speaker 2: It just sees eyes and nostrils.
Speaker 3: Did you think it was?
Speaker 2: It was huge, like false gariles get massive, like over
Speaker 2: fifteen feet quite red. And yeah, this one would have
Speaker 2: been about that size, and it was only recently as
Speaker 2: well they found out that people have been eaten by
Speaker 2: false garyles because a lot of people like, oh they
Speaker 2: don't eat people because the shape of their jaws. They're
Speaker 2: not as long as as like the like the Indian garriles.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they have found fishermen inside of them.
Speaker 3: Oh they're real narrow. They have a really narrow jaws,
Speaker 3: those ones.
Speaker 2: Yeah, real narrow more for fish, but yeah, they absolutely
Speaker 2: have taken humans.
Speaker 3: You know, what's your thought on the Thylocene.
Speaker 2: I think the Thilo scene, I think it might there
Speaker 2: is there is a chance it's still there in some
Speaker 2: parts of Tasmania. I don't really hold much credence to
Speaker 2: it still being on mainland Australia. I know there are
Speaker 2: a lot of sightings of it still, but definitely in
Speaker 2: especially in the western part of Tasmania, there is a
Speaker 2: huge bit of forest there, so they definitely could hide
Speaker 2: file scene for sure. But I think, to be honest,
Speaker 2: best chances of Papua New Guinea. There are some pretty
Speaker 2: incredible witness accounts of people seeing the striped dog up
Speaker 2: in Papua New Guinea, and I mean there's like the
Speaker 2: singing dog and things like that. That is unbelievably elusive.
Speaker 2: So I think there's a good chance that it might
Speaker 2: still be living in Papua New Guinea, more of a
Speaker 2: chance of staying hidden in Papua New Guinia than it
Speaker 2: does in Tasmania. But yeah, I think it would be
Speaker 2: an animal that I wouldn't be surprised if somebody found
Speaker 2: one's hope.
Speaker 1: So have you ever met Gary Opitt, another Australian cryptozoologist.
Speaker 2: No, I haven't.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I think he lives in the Eastern State. He does
Speaker 2: a lot of that. He's part of the Yowi group, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's an older gentleman and he's a witness of
Speaker 1: the Yowi and as well as a number of other
Speaker 1: strange animals, and I was very impressed with them when
Speaker 1: we got the chance to meet him in US real
Speaker 1: you can't go for a walk with the guy because
Speaker 1: it takes forever, because he's alway stop and down and
Speaker 1: oh this plant here, and he'll tell you like a
Speaker 1: ten minute story about the how amazing this plant is
Speaker 1: in the natural history of it and the indigenous uses
Speaker 1: and the medicinal use it. He just goes on and
Speaker 1: he is such a wealth of knowledge you never get
Speaker 1: anywhere by taking a walk, but you learn, You learn
Speaker 1: more than you would in a college class. He's just
Speaker 1: amazing this wealth of knowledge. And I bring him up
Speaker 1: not only because he's interested in all sorts of cryptids
Speaker 1: in general and has seen some very peculiar things in
Speaker 1: his life. But one of the things he saw and
Speaker 1: he shared with us while we were there, is that
Speaker 1: he saw a sasquatch or you know, basically whatever the
Speaker 1: equivalent would be in Papua New Guinea.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 1: So I have a feeling that that island there probably
Speaker 1: holds a lot of secrets.
Speaker 2: Absolutely.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: He was way up, like he was about seven thousand
Speaker 4: feet way up in the mountains, and when he saw
Speaker 4: there's a black one about seven and a half foot tall.
Speaker 2: That's interesting. I never heard that. I mean, it wouldn't
Speaker 2: surprise me this they find. They mean, they're still finding
Speaker 2: loads of new species of animal and Papua New Guinea
Speaker 2: and not small ones either, like a large animals. So
Speaker 2: I think places like Papua New Guinea, Myanmar, the Congo,
Speaker 2: they're just so vast and it's just very hostile terrain.
Speaker 2: Not many scientists are out there surveying because of that
Speaker 2: especially Meanma, because it's hard for scientists to even get
Speaker 2: into Mianma. That's where they think they're still wilt populations
Speaker 2: of like the pink headed dark and things like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that really wouldn't surprise me. And even North America.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think people understand this, just how
Speaker 2: vast some of those forests and natural areas are. I mean,
Speaker 2: if there is an undiscovered animal anyway, I mean, North
Speaker 2: America could definitely harbor one for sure, and probably does.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, most assuredly does at least one.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, from the most southern area of North America to
Speaker 1: the most northern as well. I mean we get reports
Speaker 1: from Mexico in Central America as well. It's not as
Speaker 1: many as up here in the more northern latitudes, it seems,
Speaker 1: so yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean there's still even the occasional sighting of a
Speaker 2: wooly mammus up in Alaska, I believe.
Speaker 1: Well there's some stories of that, there's. Yeah, and there
Speaker 1: was actually one video of a supposed video that I
Speaker 1: was asked to comment on for a TV show, and
Speaker 1: I think it was actually.
Speaker 2: A bear holding like a salmon hanging out of his mouth.
Speaker 1: Something like that. Yeah, yeah, I think that's what it
Speaker 1: was or whatever, but that was circulating online for a second, so.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, yeah, it's interesting, especially like where
Speaker 2: willly mammisonly went extinct on Wrangel Island there about four
Speaker 2: thousand years ago, which geologically speaking is a blink of
Speaker 2: an eye.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing the Egypt of the Pyramids remade while
Speaker 1: wooly mamms were still around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's crazy to think they.
Speaker 3: Only got wiped out due to just in bridging, I
Speaker 3: think too. Isn't that the reason they went out on
Speaker 3: a wrangle?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's such a small island and they
Speaker 2: were they were small amounts because of insular dwarf ism.
Speaker 2: But yeah, when you get a large it's still a
Speaker 2: large animal like that on a small island, and yeah,
Speaker 2: you've just funneled like you've just got a genetic bottleneck there.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's not going to be good. And it's
Speaker 2: sort of like, I don't know if you've what do
Speaker 2: you think about the Gigantopithaca's bigfoot theory, because yeah, at
Speaker 2: one point it was connected. There was land bridges and
Speaker 2: there was a way for them to get up there.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I'm not. I think just because there's
Speaker 2: two giant apes doesn't mean they're the exact same thing.
Speaker 2: But who knows. It's a cool theory, and I like
Speaker 2: reading about it, and I mean, we don't even show
Speaker 2: Gigantipitheca was by pedals.
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, that's the problem there, or that's one of
Speaker 1: the problems is we don't know enough about giganos to
Speaker 1: say much about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly doesn't.
Speaker 1: So, but we do know that they were in the
Speaker 1: line between Sheverpithecus and orangutans, and both of those apes
Speaker 1: lack of brow ridge, and sasquatches are pretty uniformly reported
Speaker 1: to have a good brow ridge on them, So of
Speaker 1: course it could have evolved separately. That's too big of
Speaker 1: an issue or anything. But there are some things about
Speaker 1: it that I think it's I'm taking a wheat and
Speaker 1: sea sort of attitude towards that one. My money is
Speaker 1: still on parathis right.
Speaker 2: That's what attracted me to things like a ran pendeck
Speaker 2: and some of the smaller ones, because the only thing
Speaker 2: that makes it weird and would make people sort of
Speaker 2: skeptical of it is the bipedalism. If you said, I
Speaker 2: think there might be a robust species of gibbon that
Speaker 2: hasn't been discovered before in Sumatra, people wouldn't bat nihilily.
Speaker 2: They go, oh, yeah, that sounds about right. The moment
Speaker 2: you say bipedal, they're like, oh, I don't know about that, So,
Speaker 2: you know, bipedalism. I don't get why people think it's
Speaker 2: such a deal breaker, because it's happened. We're bipeole. We
Speaker 2: know what happens in primates, So I don't really get
Speaker 2: why that is like the deal break, and I can't
Speaker 2: believe it now. Gibbons do walk by peoedle quite a lot.
Speaker 1: Do you think that has something to do with just
Speaker 1: a human exceptionalism sort of thing, or that we think
Speaker 1: we're a little bit more special than we are on p.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so. I think, well, we're bipedal primates.
Speaker 2: There isn't room for another bipedal primate. That's too icky.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a bit creepy for me. That's why
Speaker 2: a lot of people when they see some of these
Speaker 2: cryptids faces, it really freaks them out because of a
Speaker 2: bipedal animal that is so similar to us. It makes
Speaker 2: people uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: It makes me comfortable personally. I kind of like knowing
Speaker 1: them a part of the larger animal kingdom.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we don't want to be the only
Speaker 2: bipedal lpes walking around. It's the lonely planet.
Speaker 3: Should we kick it over to the overtime?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, you know, if you don't mind an if
Speaker 1: you can stick around and do a members episode with
Speaker 1: you and then talk to you, talk to you more
Speaker 1: about some interesting cryptids and some of your adventures, if
Speaker 1: you have the time, if you're okay without fantastic, then so, listeners,
Speaker 1: thank you very much for tuning into Bigfoot and beyond.
Speaker 1: We've got shwag. If you want to share, go to
Speaker 1: sasquatchprints dot com. We also have a member section. We're
Speaker 1: gonna be talking to Adam over there in a few moments.
Speaker 1: It's five bucks a month and you get an extra
Speaker 1: forty five minutes to an hour every single week. If
Speaker 1: you can't get enough Cliff in the bobes, well you
Speaker 1: can now through just five bucks or whatever. It's a
Speaker 1: Patreon thing, and it helps us put all this stuff
Speaker 1: together and pay for the software we have to use
Speaker 1: microphones and all that sort of stuff. We really appreciate
Speaker 1: all the support. Yeah, So Adam Thorn has been our
Speaker 1: guest today and his website is www dot Biothorn dot
Speaker 1: com dot au, an Australian website. Really interesting things are
Speaker 1: happening over there, and of course his show King of
Speaker 1: Pain is on History Channel. You also, I mean, you
Speaker 1: guys are I mean clearly you're listening to our podcast.
Speaker 1: You like podcasts, why not subscribe to Adam's podcast as well.
Speaker 1: It's called Thorn's Jungle And there's a lot of interesting
Speaker 1: topics or talk about. I'm just like scrolling through right now.
Speaker 1: There's a ring and Tan stuff, there's Walrist stuff. There's
Speaker 1: a bunch of primates and snakes and all sorts of
Speaker 1: cool things. And am I missing anything? Adam? Anything else
Speaker 1: you want to mention?
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, now you nailed it, Cliff. You can
Speaker 2: follow me on Instagram as well, Adam underscore Thorn. That's
Speaker 2: probably the main social media I used. But yeah, apart
Speaker 2: from that, the website and check out the podcast.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to follow you right now on
Speaker 1: Instagram Adam underline Thorn. Cool. Right on, Well, Bobbo, take
Speaker 1: us out of here and start the members episode.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I want to ask at when we get to
Speaker 4: the members section, if you can recommend any local licors
Speaker 4: or any specific beer or whiskey that was good for
Speaker 4: numbing the pain.
Speaker 1: We'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker 3: Oh, we'll get to that the overtime. Yeah, the bonus.
Speaker 4: Okay, folks, Well, thanks again, thanks to Adam for joining us.
Speaker 4: Thank you for listening. We appreciate it. Until next week, y'all,
Speaker 4: keep it squatchy.
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