Speaker 1: Report to Transporter Room three.
Speaker 2: Oll Brian here, I need you in Transporter Room three.
Speaker 1: This is the Captain. Meet me in Transporter Room three.
Speaker 3: Join us in Transporter Room three.
Speaker 1: Captain. We're heading for Transporter Room three. This is your
Speaker 1: favorite transport room, isn't it. You're listening to Transporter Room
Speaker 1: three with your hosts, Phil Perello and sak Laura Energize.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to a new episode of Transporter Room three.
Speaker 2: Mister Scott. How are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing all right, Phil. A couple of things going
Speaker 1: on in the world of Star Trek at the moment.
Speaker 1: One of them is the it's just the already fifth
Speaker 1: anniversary of the best of both worlds if you can
Speaker 1: believe it.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And we're continuing our celebration of that very
Speaker 2: landmark anniversary for both of us, that landmark episode with
Speaker 2: an interview with Michael Lokuda, which you can check out
Speaker 2: on our Patreon.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: He does a very very deep dive on the making
Speaker 2: of the episode, his role in shaping the character of
Speaker 2: the tenant Shelby. He also unpacks how the old school
Speaker 2: the analog digital process they used to make the spinny
Speaker 2: Star Drive graphics.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, pretty cool.
Speaker 2: And he also talks about his role in working on
Speaker 2: Star Trek four, his first Star Trek project, and why
Speaker 2: there was only one shot.
Speaker 1: Of the bridge Okay, no beauty.
Speaker 2: Passes, no nothing, just one shot of the new Enterprise
Speaker 2: a bridge at the end of Star Trek four. It's
Speaker 2: a fascinating chat. He's to say this's a nice guy
Speaker 2: would be a an understatement. He's just it was one
Speaker 2: of the coolest chats I've ever had with a Star
Speaker 2: Trek person.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Yeah, that bridge is like that was a
Speaker 1: one and done bridge too, right, because one and done
Speaker 1: you get to Star Trek five. It's a different bridge, right,
Speaker 1: So yeah, okay, so yeah, go check that out over
Speaker 1: on our Patreon where there's at this point over forty
Speaker 1: exclusive Patreon episodes that we've recorded. So if you guys
Speaker 1: have just been on the free feed here, that's forty
Speaker 1: episodes of Transported Room three just waiting for you to
Speaker 1: check out.
Speaker 2: We have multiple Ron Moore and Brendan Braga interviews. We
Speaker 2: have Sir Patrick Stewart talking about the threest anniversary of
Speaker 2: all Good Things. Yeah, and we got Captain James Tiberius.
Speaker 1: Kirk Yeah, the Shatner the chat, and we edited out
Speaker 1: the part where he almost choked to death as well.
Speaker 2: But I wish I could do that in my memory.
Speaker 2: I wish I could just go to recall get that, take.
Speaker 1: It out, you know what. But just like Captain Kirk,
Speaker 1: he pulled through, He figured out a way through that
Speaker 1: particular quagmire, and he triumphed in the end.
Speaker 2: So he doesn't believe in choking on toast scenarios.
Speaker 1: Okay, so we're gonna talk about Duet the Deep Space
Speaker 1: nine episode on the occasion of the passing of the
Speaker 1: actor from that episode who plays Maritza Harris Jolin. Am
Speaker 1: I pronouncing his name correctly.
Speaker 2: Harish Ellen. Yeah, an incredible actor and terrible coincidence. The
Speaker 2: week before he passed away, I saw him in one
Speaker 2: of his best performances, clear in Present Danger. I went
Speaker 2: to see a revival screening of it and a beautiful
Speaker 2: thirty five millionaire print. His performance killed that movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's great. So before we before we do that,
Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about the news that just
Speaker 1: came up a couple of days ago, which is that
Speaker 1: Change the Worlds is canceled. It's not done yet, but
Speaker 1: it has officially been canceled. There's season three will be
Speaker 1: airing this summer. I think in July. I think it debuts.
Speaker 1: Season four is in production now.
Speaker 2: Ish, I think it's wrapping up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, and then they so they've they announced that
Speaker 1: there will be a season five, but it will only
Speaker 1: be six episodes and then that's it shows done after that.
Speaker 1: What do you think of that when you heard that news.
Speaker 2: I wasn't surprised. I was more surprised at the timing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they haven't even done the junket yet for season three, right,
Speaker 2: and the top question is going to be something around
Speaker 2: what's it like to know this early that you're going
Speaker 2: to be canceled? Or how are you preparing for the
Speaker 2: final ups? You know all that stuff. Yeah, that feels
Speaker 2: very questionable and just not I don't know what motivated
Speaker 2: the time. Yeah, traditionally and when news like that hits,
Speaker 2: it's because someone in the trades is sniffing around it. It
Speaker 2: was going to announce it before they did, and they
Speaker 2: wanted to control the narrative. But I don't know, I
Speaker 2: don't know what the rationale was for that.
Speaker 1: Could it be I don't know if this makes sense
Speaker 1: but could it be that they were trying to get
Speaker 1: ahead of of like the company, you know, Paramount potentially,
Speaker 1: you know, like saying like, all right, you guys are done,
Speaker 1: so that once they announced that it's happening, it's kind
Speaker 1: of like, well now we kind of have to do
Speaker 1: it something like that. Maybe I don't know, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: I agree, it's odd because we're so far off, you know,
Speaker 1: we're essentially we're at the halfway point right now, right
Speaker 1: because we've only had two seasons that have actually aired.
Speaker 1: So it also feels.
Speaker 2: Six episode five fifth season, six episodes, like.
Speaker 1: That's it's not even a season, right, but ten episodes,
Speaker 1: which is what they've been doing is barely has barely
Speaker 1: been a season, you know. So it feels a little
Speaker 1: bit like when they ended Lower Decks two, which they
Speaker 1: went out of their way to announce it as a
Speaker 1: not a cancelation, but just the series ending coming to
Speaker 1: its natural end, which is definitely not what Mike McGann,
Speaker 1: the showrunner, He did not feel it was coming to
Speaker 1: its natural end. He's kind of basically said that at
Speaker 1: this point. So so I don't know if it's trying
Speaker 1: to control the narrative, but it does feel it feels
Speaker 1: odd like, as you say, but now that's what everyone's
Speaker 1: going to be talking about as the new season launches.
Speaker 1: So in terms of the show itself, it also feels premature.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not, like you said, I'm not surprised
Speaker 1: because it does feel like Paramount plus and Paramount in
Speaker 1: general are there, and there was all this merger talk
Speaker 1: that's going on. They're trying to there's been a lot
Speaker 1: of layoffs, they're trying to say, trying to save money
Speaker 1: anyway they can the Star Trek brand.
Speaker 2: For the guys up top of course, millions of dollars
Speaker 2: for their bad decision that cost people their jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, oh well that's but those guys they
Speaker 1: deserve that. So yeah, but but uh, it feels like
Speaker 1: Star Trek, the sort of modern age of Star Trek
Speaker 1: on TV is kind of coming to an end.
Speaker 2: Also, Yeah, because there's good I feel confident that there
Speaker 2: will be some change ups when any of sky Dance
Speaker 2: takes over.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I know that a priority for them is
Speaker 2: to get another Star Trek feature film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense. It's the it's the it's a
Speaker 1: name franchise, right, So and yeah, I mean in terms
Speaker 1: of TV Star Trek, what what's left, what's changed the world?
Speaker 1: You know, it's still got you know, two and a
Speaker 1: half see. But like in terms of new stuff, we've
Speaker 1: got Starfleet Academy and then that's it, right, So unless
Speaker 1: they green light another new Star Trek show, we've just
Speaker 1: got the Starfleet Academy thing, which is this great, this big,
Speaker 1: unknown and kind. So that's quite It's quite different from
Speaker 1: where we were not that long ago, where we had
Speaker 1: how many shows we had? Discovery, Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy,
Speaker 1: Strange Worlds we had like five shows.
Speaker 2: One of the few good things that come out of
Speaker 2: the streaming boom, you know, when everyone was just throwing
Speaker 2: money at streaming.
Speaker 1: Good good ish, because there was yeah, I mean, yes good,
Speaker 1: but there was some real there were some real highs
Speaker 1: and some real lows in that yeah, in that run. Also, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I'm nervous about Strange New Worlds. We're in bargoed
Speaker 1: to talk about the new season. I've only seen a
Speaker 1: couple of episodes from it so far, but suffice to
Speaker 1: say that I'm nervous that it's not continuing the trend
Speaker 1: that season one. Season one was was awesome, Season two
Speaker 1: was Season two was good, and I'm not sure we'll
Speaker 1: see where season three goes. But anyway, that's that.
Speaker 2: So we can talk more about season three to Stranger
Speaker 2: Worlds later. But I saw them as well, and my
Speaker 2: sentiments are similar to Scots.
Speaker 1: Okay. Yeah, so, and the other thing is just even
Speaker 1: story wise, like it always felt like Strange New Worlds was.
Speaker 1: The whole idea was it would eventually I think Akiva
Speaker 1: Goldsman had even said like it was meant to, like, uh,
Speaker 1: eventually catch up with the original series.
Speaker 2: Right, And I'm curious to see how they do that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like how can they? Can they still do that
Speaker 1: with the shortened Hey, what's up? I just heard footsteps
Speaker 1: behind me. I was like, what the heck? No one
Speaker 1: else is in the house.
Speaker 2: Then I tell you his plan to bridge.
Speaker 1: I realized my kid, My kid came home, has had
Speaker 1: the English regents today, so he's done. He's done early.
Speaker 1: But most people listening don't know what the regents is.
Speaker 1: Do you do you know about regency? What is that?
Speaker 1: It's a state. It's a it's like a final example,
Speaker 1: but it's a New York state thing that they do
Speaker 1: in high school where every kid in the state takes
Speaker 1: the same test.
Speaker 2: He changed the conditions of the test.
Speaker 1: He does have an apple in his hand right now.
Speaker 1: So anyway, Okay, so that's it for that. You want
Speaker 1: to move on to do what?
Speaker 2: Let's move on. An episode that never disappoints, it still
Speaker 2: holds up more than thirty years, arguably the first great
Speaker 2: episode of d S nine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, start a run of good ones too, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, Like I don't know if this is
Speaker 2: where they found their footing necessarily, but the tone of
Speaker 2: this episode would carry on throughout the rest of the
Speaker 2: show in terms of type of quality and drama you
Speaker 2: can expect. Yeah, it's such a great judgment at Nuremberg
Speaker 2: esque concept, like what would happen if you had to
Speaker 2: defend your worst enemy?
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much, right, and you.
Speaker 2: Were responsible for their life, This person who you believe
Speaker 2: is responsible for so much death in your life, you're
Speaker 2: responsible for theirs. What would you do?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And to.
Speaker 2: Put Kira in that situation with someone who she believes
Speaker 2: that the Kredassian involved in a terrible, terrible moment in
Speaker 2: the occupation of Bejor, turns out to be something not
Speaker 2: that to where by the end of the episode, she's
Speaker 2: grieving the loss of this man who she couldn't wait
Speaker 2: to die at the beginning. Yeah, some of the best
Speaker 2: acting in Star Trek history.
Speaker 1: It's great in.
Speaker 2: This best acting on television at that time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, going at it like, yeah, it's Eric Yellen.
Speaker 2: Just in a just world, he would have been nominated
Speaker 2: and won a Supporting Actor Emmy. You know it's so
Speaker 2: good or excuse.
Speaker 1: Me, Yeah, let's let's break down the plot just real
Speaker 1: quick for people who haven't seen it. But it's essentially
Speaker 1: a freighter ship arrives at Deep Space nine I think
Speaker 1: or a passenger ship, uh, and there's a someone on
Speaker 1: board who's suffering from this medical condition that the only
Speaker 1: people who have this medical condition were present at this
Speaker 1: Bajoran labor camp during the Krdassian occupation because of a
Speaker 1: mining accident. It turns out that it's this it's this
Speaker 1: Cardassian who they think is this guy. At first they
Speaker 1: think it's this guy Maritza and Kira is loaded to
Speaker 1: bear and ready to go at this guy because she
Speaker 1: figures if he's a Cardassian and he has this disease
Speaker 1: or he has this illness, he must have been working
Speaker 1: at that labor camp, which means he's guilty of at
Speaker 1: least being complicit in the atrocities that were committed at
Speaker 1: this labor camp. But from there it becomes this really twisty,
Speaker 1: turney question they put it. They throw him in a
Speaker 1: jail cell there, and periodically Kira is going in and
Speaker 1: kind of interrogating slash debating with this guy. And then
Speaker 1: on the on the other side, Kira and Odo are
Speaker 1: kind of investigating and Cisco to some degree or investigating
Speaker 1: this guy's past and trying to figure out who he
Speaker 1: really is, and he kind of adopts several identities over
Speaker 1: the course of the episode, as we the viewer don't
Speaker 1: know who he really is either, and eventually it escalates
Speaker 1: to the point where we turns out we think he's
Speaker 1: not Maritza, but instead we think he's the goal who
Speaker 1: ran the labor camp, who is this sort of like,
Speaker 1: you know, really awful figure who who just delighted in
Speaker 1: the murder of Bajorans, and a real turns out he's not.
Speaker 1: He was a file clerk who has just suffered for
Speaker 1: so much guilt over the years because he was there high,
Speaker 1: as he tells it, hiding under his cot, covering his
Speaker 1: ears to try to drown out the screams of the Bajorans.
Speaker 1: So he was just a guy who was who was drafted,
Speaker 1: I guess, and and felt his has felt over the
Speaker 1: years like such guilt for not doing more to try
Speaker 1: to help the people who you know online is he
Speaker 1: probably couldn't have helped any of these Bajorans, right, Like
Speaker 1: what would if a flop file clerk try to intercede
Speaker 1: and help, you know, prevent the killings, what would happen?
Speaker 1: He would have probably been arrested and executed by his
Speaker 1: fellow Kardassians. So and so, Kira has this arc of
Speaker 1: really going from hating this guy, as you said, to
Speaker 1: feeling compassion for him in the end because he has
Speaker 1: this breakdown in the end, and and you think that's
Speaker 1: the end of the episode, and that could kind of
Speaker 1: could have been the end of the episode. But she
Speaker 1: the final moments and it all happens pretty quick. The
Speaker 1: final moments of the episode, she and Odo and Maritza
Speaker 1: are leaving. They're going to like try to get him
Speaker 1: the help he needs, I guess, and he's free to go.
Speaker 1: End up, Bajoring appears out of nowhere and stabs him
Speaker 1: in the back and kills him just because he's a
Speaker 1: Kardassian and like Kira, you know, Kira is like, you know,
Speaker 1: that's not you know, he was just a guy. You know,
Speaker 1: he didn't deserve to die. So a lot happens in
Speaker 1: the forty five minutes of this episode, and it's all
Speaker 1: really great stuff.
Speaker 2: Amazing episode. And to go from thinking this is the
Speaker 2: butcher of Gala tep right two, Oh my god, he
Speaker 2: doesn't deserve this fate. Yeah, it's just it's magnificent writing,
Speaker 2: it's magnificent acting. Yeah, some trivia on Duet Scott. Do
Speaker 2: you remember in twenty twenty two the mini controversy that
Speaker 2: erupted Now this episode was pulled from the streaming service.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, what happened? I do kind of remember something
Speaker 1: about that now.
Speaker 2: It so it was moving over to Paramount Plus and
Speaker 2: it just wasn't there. And the official line from Paramount
Speaker 2: Plus was, they tweeted on April fourteenth, twenty twenty two,
Speaker 2: We're sorry we don't currently offer season one, episode nineteen
Speaker 2: of D Space nine as part of Paramount Plus due
Speaker 2: to streaming rights. Please check back often, as we're always
Speaker 2: working to make even more available to you.
Speaker 1: Why would there be any.
Speaker 2: Exactly and then Ira Steven Barritt chimed in on the
Speaker 2: same day, don't fuck with Ira duet missing in action.
Speaker 2: That's a hashtag star trek DS nine snafu. For the
Speaker 2: record books, Peter Allen Fields would not approve. He wrote
Speaker 2: the episode he would not be surprised, but he would
Speaker 2: not approve, and then immediately following his tweet, Paramount Plus replied,
Speaker 2: sorry for the miscommunication. There was an issue, but our
Speaker 2: team was able to get the episode back up and
Speaker 2: available to stream, so there's no It's still unknown exactly
Speaker 2: what it was, but apparently streaming rights was not the issue.
Speaker 1: That's weird, even though.
Speaker 2: They said it was and that it's not a miscommunication,
Speaker 2: which is corporate speak for we aft up. We said
Speaker 2: something we probably shouldn't have said. Yeah, we didn't expect
Speaker 2: they want to make us think about this. Was there
Speaker 2: something going on at that time in twenty twenty two where.
Speaker 1: I mean, I was gonna I was going to try
Speaker 1: to somehow tie it to the politics of by the
Speaker 1: Biden was in office then, right, so doesn't Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I do know that. Did you watch that?
Speaker 1: You watched the new season of the rehearsal?
Speaker 2: Right, no, I have not yet.
Speaker 1: Oh, okay, well, there is a whole thing. There's one
Speaker 1: episode where Nathan Fielder realizes that an episode of his
Speaker 1: one of his.
Speaker 2: Shows was Yes, I read about that Yeah.
Speaker 1: Was pulled from Paramount Plus. He does not give Paramount
Speaker 1: Plus any any room to navigate around either. He's he
Speaker 1: goes hard on them about this, and it's this weird
Speaker 1: thing where the episode apparently the episode was pulled for
Speaker 1: I think it was quote unquote anti semitism in Germany.
Speaker 1: Now Fielder's Jewish, talks about how he was raised Jewish,
Speaker 1: and I don't think there's anything anti Semitic going on,
Speaker 1: but like for some reason it got flagged in Germany
Speaker 1: and then it spread like all these other foreign Paramount
Speaker 1: Plus outlets pulled it as well, and eventually it pulled
Speaker 1: in the United States too, So I wonder if there's
Speaker 1: something weird like that. But I wanted to say real
Speaker 1: quick about Peter Allen Fields. He was one of the
Speaker 1: early because I was just reading the origins of Deep
Speaker 1: Says nine recently, and he was one of the early
Speaker 1: guys who was in the in the bullpen with with
Speaker 1: Iras Stephen Burrer. He really helped build the show in
Speaker 1: the early years, and he didn't eventually, I think was
Speaker 1: let go for some reason. I don't know that. I
Speaker 1: don't know the details, but he was I think, sort
Speaker 1: of a mentor figure to iras Stephen Burr in some
Speaker 1: ways as well. He was he was older, he's he
Speaker 1: has since passed. So yeah, it's cool that Ira shouted
Speaker 1: them out like that, but I think he meant a
Speaker 1: lot to him also. And yeah, I mean, like here
Speaker 1: we go this episode, you had like one of the
Speaker 1: greats which would after this, This was the penultimate episode
Speaker 1: season one. After this we get I think it's called
Speaker 1: in the Hands of the Prophets, which is.
Speaker 2: The Yes, this is another great episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the school bombing episode with kai Win or Vedic
Speaker 1: Win at that time, I think. And then from there
Speaker 1: we go.
Speaker 3: Into that great three parter season two opener U Circle,
Speaker 3: the Circle U of the Siege, I can't remember, the
Speaker 3: Circle of the Siege and the something something Great Ones.
Speaker 3: Richard Bimer shows up as the hero of the Bajoran Resistance,
Speaker 3: who's a guy who happened to kill a Kardassian while
Speaker 3: he was taking a bath. Like he did, he becomes
Speaker 3: glorified and a legend and it was just through a happenstance.
Speaker 3: He happened to kill this famous Kardassian and he doesn't want.
Speaker 1: To want the glory or the role he replaced. He
Speaker 1: replaces Major Kura on Deep Slace nine, he doesn't want
Speaker 1: any of it. Great stuff. Frank Langella plays a Bajoran
Speaker 1: in that as well.
Speaker 2: Interesting plays a very interesting villain.
Speaker 1: But yeah, it's a good chunk of episodes right there,
Speaker 1: really like differentiating them itself from the next gen at
Speaker 1: the time as well. But on Duet, you know, I
Speaker 1: wanted to just say real quick, like that the point
Speaker 1: where uh yulan uh, it's near the end where he's
Speaker 1: he's trying to act big and bad about all the
Speaker 1: crimes and atrocities he committed, and Kira is picking away
Speaker 1: at it, but she realizes that they figure out that
Speaker 1: it's he's not who he says he is, or that
Speaker 1: it doesn't make sense, and he starts when he starts
Speaker 1: to break down and say, like, you know, like the
Speaker 1: what we said earlier basically about the hearing the cries
Speaker 1: of the victims and hiding under the cot and everything
Speaker 1: is such a great acting moment, like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: just so strong and and no visitor who's obviously younger
Speaker 1: than him, but she she's just right there with him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like that's why she this amazing performer. Like both
Speaker 2: her and him should have been nominated for Emmy's just
Speaker 2: like this should have been their Emmy reel, but sci
Speaker 2: Fi was not is not. Yeah, it is not in
Speaker 2: that conversation as much as it should be. Yeah, lessons
Speaker 2: for HBO's type stuff. Yeah, absolutely, that three parter kicked
Speaker 2: off with the Homecoming, then the Circle, then the Siege.
Speaker 2: We're gonna have to do. I think we need to
Speaker 2: explore those three episodes next. Yeah, because those are amazing.
Speaker 1: We should.
Speaker 2: We should so some trivia on on this great episode.
Speaker 2: The working title was The Higher Law, and it was
Speaker 2: pitched by writers Lisa Rich and Genie Carrigan Fauci, and
Speaker 2: it was based on the simple conflict inherent in the
Speaker 2: idea of someone having to defend their worst enemy. Michael
Speaker 2: Piller would later recall that quote duet was pitched to
Speaker 2: us by two of our interns who wanted to do
Speaker 2: something about a war. Criminal about that in the context
Speaker 2: it was pitched, it didn't turn me on the idea
Speaker 2: of a war criminal found aboard d S nine seemed
Speaker 2: to me to be an interesting concept, but at first
Speaker 2: it seemed to me to be a judgment at Nuremberg
Speaker 2: Court show. Since the first season via Sign had already
Speaker 2: included a court episode of Decks, the writing staff didn't
Speaker 2: want to do another too soon, right, But eventually they
Speaker 2: turned their mind around on that thanks to Iris Stephen Bear.
Speaker 2: He gave us the twist where the guy isn't who
Speaker 2: he says he is, but he is doing it for
Speaker 2: more noble reasons, which was inspired by a stage play,
Speaker 2: Robert Shaw's nineteen sixty seven stage play, The Man in
Speaker 2: the Glass Booth, which tells of a Jewish man accused
Speaker 2: of being a Nazi war criminal, and that man was
Speaker 2: played by Leonard Nimoy.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, okay interesting? Huh Hey did you say one
Speaker 1: of those interns names were was Fauci.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Kerrigan, fau Ci I had.
Speaker 1: Do you think that's why the episode got pulled?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: I mean, I hate to even say it. I don't
Speaker 1: know that would be a really.
Speaker 2: I don't even know if this person is related.
Speaker 1: No, I'm sure they're not. Okay, surreal, Okay?
Speaker 2: Interesting?
Speaker 1: Who directed this one?
Speaker 2: James Conway is that Jim Conway. Yep. Okay, so he
Speaker 2: did a great job for an episode that doesn't have
Speaker 2: a lot of opportunities for dynamic camera moves. He made
Speaker 2: it riveting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, yeah, for sure, I know this. There was
Speaker 1: one cool moment where Cisco is in Odo's office and
Speaker 1: he's like, I'm going to go in and talk to
Speaker 1: the prisoner, and that they don't cut. They just pan
Speaker 1: over to one of Odo's security monitors and then you
Speaker 1: see what appears to be Avery Brooks because it is
Speaker 1: a CTR monitor like Deep say, unlike next Gen Deep
Speaker 1: STA's nine uses actual TV monitors a lot of the times,
Speaker 1: and it is an actual, like closed circuit image of
Speaker 1: what looks to be Cisco walking into the cell. But
Speaker 1: it's one continuous shot. Now, whether that is actually Avery
Speaker 1: Brooks or stand in because you only see him from behind,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure. But if it's actually Avery Brooks, and
Speaker 1: that means that the jail cell set has to be
Speaker 1: right behind Odo's office set, because Cisco walks through the
Speaker 1: door and within a couple of seconds he's on the
Speaker 1: camera walking towards the cell. Whim merits it is But
Speaker 1: I thought it was an interesting shot that the director
Speaker 1: pulled off was again, as you say, he doesn't have
Speaker 1: much much room to play with stuff, and it was
Speaker 1: like just a different way of seeing even like the
Speaker 1: architecture of or the layout of Deep says nine in
Speaker 1: terms of oh, the cells are right behind Odo's office.
Speaker 1: I guess something else. I know this when we were
Speaker 1: watching this, which is not specific to do it necessarily,
Speaker 1: I don't think, but like when they a lot of
Speaker 1: times when they when they're because there's some back and
Speaker 1: forth with Goldacott at times, right and he's always only
Speaker 1: on comms talking to them from Kardassia, I guess whenever
Speaker 1: they shoot shoot Goldacott on the view screen, it's like
Speaker 1: the tabletop view screen card what Cardassian tabletop view screen.
Speaker 1: It's like almost like a canted angle. It's not a
Speaker 1: straight on shot of the view screen. It's like the
Speaker 1: view screen is kind of down here on Odo's desk
Speaker 1: or something, and they shoot it at kind of an angle,
Speaker 1: so it's almost like a skewed perspective. It's not just
Speaker 1: a flat square in the in the shot. It's more
Speaker 1: like it looks like gold Decott's almost he almost looks
Speaker 1: warped because it's like a weird angle of a TV
Speaker 1: screen of Goldacott talking. It's like a little touch, but
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting. It's another way they differentiate
Speaker 1: themselves from the way Next Generation was always shot, which
Speaker 1: was which would never have have done. It would have
Speaker 1: always been the cards a little like laptop device and
Speaker 1: they would just cut to a close up of that,
Speaker 1: you know, so.
Speaker 2: Right, and uh my chat with the Okuda he talks
Speaker 2: about why playback video playback graphics like that were so
Speaker 2: cost prohibitive on TNG, but as they moved to DS
Speaker 2: nine and and Voyager, they became more popular to use.
Speaker 1: Okay, interesting, yeah, because it was.
Speaker 2: Very costly, very costly process at the time, and and
Speaker 2: a very arduous one. Akuda would have to generate graphics
Speaker 2: on his computer, his Macintosh too, and then drive it
Speaker 2: from Paramount to Warner Brothers. Warner Brothers had a proprietary
Speaker 2: tech that allowed it to be transferred to videotape and
Speaker 2: then drive it back down. You got to take his
Speaker 2: computer with him.
Speaker 1: Right, Okay? Is t I ninety four a yeah?
Speaker 2: His mac Yeah, his massive Macintosh too. The irony of
Speaker 2: making twenty fourth century computer graphics on that future computer's
Speaker 2: precursor that's amazing.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. I think on the on the next gen
Speaker 1: battle Bridge, I think they had video playback.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, the battle Bridge was got a big update,
Speaker 2: big upgrade for for best of both worlds, and they
Speaker 2: had the money to do it because it was a finale.
Speaker 2: So that's why you see all those video graphics spinning behind.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, okay, but I cut you off. I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: No, I was gonna say some other uh, some cool
Speaker 2: trivia on uh. On the episode, it's the first mention
Speaker 2: of the Chakhar Resistance cell.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, right, right, right right, it's not even clear
Speaker 1: that Shakar is a person yet necessarily I don't think either, right, No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and uh now, Visitor and arm Insurance Night this
Speaker 2: is cite this as among their favorite episodes.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Shimmerman said that the writing and the directing and the
Speaker 2: acting all coalesced perfectly, and Visitor said the action comes
Speaker 2: out of big issues on this show. There's action and
Speaker 2: intrigue with the writing. Really, lets us deal with issues.
Speaker 2: Were not embarrassed to commit ourselves to as actors and people.
Speaker 2: Duet was a wonderful episode and bear on the season
Speaker 2: one DVD special features if you have them, check out
Speaker 2: the interview he gives about the episode. He says, I'm very,
Speaker 2: very proud of this show, not in the sense it's
Speaker 2: a show for all humanity, that it was a fun
Speaker 2: show to work on. You had a character who was
Speaker 2: larger than life and living and reveling in his evilness.
Speaker 2: It was just a blast. It was a lot of
Speaker 2: fun to write. Yeah, Yeah, it's just it's really good
Speaker 2: and the DP Marvin Rush talked about Jim Conway's direction,
Speaker 2: saying that he came in did a great job. He
Speaker 2: was real professional and had a difficult episode because it
Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of action or movement. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: also of note, a special screening of this episode was
Speaker 2: held at the Museum of Television Radio Broadcasting in Los
Speaker 2: Angeles as part of its annual celebration of TV that
Speaker 2: is considered to be of high quality. Yeah, and it
Speaker 2: still is and forever will be.
Speaker 1: So that's the thing, right, Like, you don't have to
Speaker 1: have phaser battles and spaceships and all that stuff, right
Speaker 1: and like, and as long as the performances and the
Speaker 1: and the writing are there and have the conflict that
Speaker 1: you you need to tell, good drama that's the important thing, right,
Speaker 1: And so I think that I think that's something maybe
Speaker 1: some of modern modern Star Trek hasn't gotten a message
Speaker 1: on at times that we don't need to have like
Speaker 1: insane CGI space battles all the time. Like I mean
Speaker 1: that stuff can be cool, but like not the not
Speaker 1: at the detriment of the other stuff, which is more important,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: So, and it's also amazing that this episode largely exists
Speaker 2: due to budget reasons, right, Uh they are the production
Speaker 2: approached Peter Fields saying, do us a favor, write us
Speaker 2: an episode doesn't cost us any money, so sure will
Speaker 2: do And I paraphrase Hi, but he said, so you
Speaker 2: go off and you're like shit and you say yes
Speaker 2: to your boss, but you're dying a death of a
Speaker 2: thousand cuts, right because of what you put yourself into.
Speaker 2: How do I do this? Can't spend money because Emissari
Speaker 2: costs a ton of money. Yeah, and the season finale
Speaker 2: was coming up, so you had to basically do this
Speaker 2: one act yeah, fort play. Yeah, it's a there's no
Speaker 2: B story in this episode. It's all a story.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're right, Yeah, Yeah, that's right. Uh, it's a Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a classic bottle episodes that you right, getting close to
Speaker 1: the end of the season, we need to need to
Speaker 1: put you know, tighten our tighten our belt a bit
Speaker 1: and like you all right, it's a great episode.
Speaker 2: Uh, all our condolences to Heshlan's family and friends. Yeah,
Speaker 2: an incredible actor. Was an amazing body of work Ghostbusters
Speaker 2: to clear in prison danger this I was like, solid actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was looking at this credits. I had forgotten
Speaker 1: he's in Night Moves, that Gene Hackman movie.
Speaker 2: Yes he is, that's right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, which you and I both watched great.
Speaker 2: Gene Hackman performance and your wife watched that recently.
Speaker 1: I had watched it a few months ago, but I
Speaker 1: know you had also just watched it not that long ago.
Speaker 2: Yes, for the first time. I watched it last year.
Speaker 1: It's definitely that's a that's a definitely worth checking out,
Speaker 1: especially with you know, obviously Hackman passed as well not
Speaker 1: that long ago. It's an Arthur Penn picture. It's a
Speaker 1: sort of a sort of a modern day film noir,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of a neo noir. I guess. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a Yeah, it's really good, young, very young Melanie Griffith.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so it's got a problematic plot point in.
Speaker 1: It, involving a young, very young Melanie Griffith. Yes, it does. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but that's a minor, kind of a minor part of
Speaker 1: the the bigger picture.
Speaker 2: But it's a it's a it's a solid performance from Hackman,
Speaker 2: and it's an interesting it's an interesting noir film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so all right, you want to you want to
Speaker 1: move over to the replemat maybe.
Speaker 2: Sure, Well, let's let's headle over the Replemant. Scout, I
Speaker 2: got I got something to share.
Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to the Replemant to get something
Speaker 1: to eat. What is it?
Speaker 2: I recently acquired the new four K Sean Connery James
Speaker 2: Bond movie collection.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, these.
Speaker 2: Films have never looked better, and they obviously it's it's
Speaker 2: a brand new scan of I believe the original thirty
Speaker 2: five millimeter camera negative and it retains the film grain
Speaker 2: very well. Wow, like to the point where you're watching
Speaker 2: the opening titles A Doctor No, and you can see
Speaker 2: the fuzziness of the optical effects.
Speaker 1: Like that's how really.
Speaker 2: Exact this transfer is. They look beautiful, they sound great.
Speaker 2: It's the best presentation of these classic films you're ever
Speaker 2: gonna have until we start getting eight k Imax in
Speaker 2: our homes. So that's my recommendation.
Speaker 1: Well what is so wait, how many films are there?
Speaker 2: Uh? It's Doctor Now from Russia with Love, Goldfinger, Thunderball
Speaker 2: which looks amazing. That was my that was my personal favorite.
Speaker 2: You Only Live Twice, okay, and Diamonds Are Forever.
Speaker 1: So six. So that's that's all the Connery movies, not in.
Speaker 2: All the Connors. And it was like ninety four bucks
Speaker 2: if you if you pole to afford it. It was
Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty four or something when it around
Speaker 2: that price point when it initially was announced. But uh,
Speaker 2: okay for ninety.
Speaker 1: Four okay, and that obviously doesn't include Never Say Never Again,
Speaker 1: which is it was not an Eon Well that's.
Speaker 2: An unofficial Uh, it's a Winner Bros. Release These you're
Speaker 2: the MGM catalog.
Speaker 1: My apologies, I'm so sorry.
Speaker 2: Yeah you should be.
Speaker 1: I don't think i've seen Never Say Never Again since
Speaker 1: like the eighties when it came out, like to.
Speaker 2: Watch it back when I was at IGN and when
Speaker 2: the Blu ray came out.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, dude, I just yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean, is it better than If You Do? Is
Speaker 2: it better than Octopusy the competing Bond movies of that year.
Speaker 2: I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Okay, see I've rewatched more times than never say never again.
Speaker 1: Wow Okay, Okay.
Speaker 2: Connory was I think younger than Craig was at the
Speaker 2: time of doing.
Speaker 1: And yet and yet he was considered you're too old,
Speaker 1: too old? Yeah right, yeah, huh, that's funny. Okay. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna go with and apologies if I've recommended this in
Speaker 1: the past, I can't remember, but I'm going to go
Speaker 1: with The Loaner, which is this Rod Serling TV show
Speaker 1: that nobody remembers it was. It was his the show
Speaker 1: that he did after The Twilight Zone. So The Twilight
Speaker 1: Zone ended after five seasons, and Serling decided to make
Speaker 1: a Western with Lloyd Bridges. It's called The Loaner and
Speaker 1: it aired Twiletson ended in sixty four. The Loaner aired
Speaker 1: in sixty five sixty six. It only ran for one
Speaker 1: season because the network CBS was expecting shoot him up
Speaker 1: western with gunfights and you know, bullets flying and horse races,
Speaker 1: and instead they got was Rod Sterling doing his introspective,
Speaker 1: philosophical moralizing ship that he always did on the twilights
Speaker 1: on too, which is he's like using the Western to
Speaker 1: like explore the human condition and all that jazz. And
Speaker 1: so Lloyd Bridges plays this guy who's just who's a
Speaker 1: Civil War vet. The war has just ended and he's
Speaker 1: just wandering in the Old West. Goes every episodic every
Speaker 1: week he goes from town to town and meets new people.
Speaker 1: You know, it's Bill Bixby the style, the Incredible Hulk
Speaker 1: or the Fugitive style, where it's every week he's in
Speaker 1: a new place with new character, new supporting characters. What's
Speaker 1: the show call against Goott the Loner? Nobody's ever heard
Speaker 1: of it. It's not pretty cool, it's great. It ran
Speaker 1: for one season. Serling Fote fought with the network, publicly
Speaker 1: fought with the network. He would call the network exec
Speaker 1: out on his bullshit, but the network exec wanted less
Speaker 1: talking and more gunfighting and stuff, and and so it went.
Speaker 1: It only lasted for one season. So the reason it's
Speaker 1: on my mind is because I just wrote an article
Speaker 1: about it on IGN, which you can check out. Just
Speaker 1: google the loan.
Speaker 2: You got to write an article about this for IGN?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, get it out. And so I was rewatching
Speaker 1: some of the episodes to prep for the article. So
Speaker 1: it's been on my mind. But it's on Amazon because
Speaker 1: it was only one season. It never was syndicated, so
Speaker 1: it slipped into up because back in the day to
Speaker 1: syndicate the show you usually need it I think at
Speaker 1: least eighty episodes or I can't remember the exact number
Speaker 1: you needed to set one hundred, so you needed several,
Speaker 1: which I don't understand because the original series of Star
Speaker 1: Trek was under one hundred, but that syndicated. But I
Speaker 1: think you're right. I think the number usually was one hundred.
Speaker 1: But anyway, the Loaner only had like twenty I don't know,
Speaker 1: twenty four episodes, and so nobody remembered the show. It
Speaker 1: wasn't well received at the time. It was never syndicated.
Speaker 1: It played on TV Land for a short period back
Speaker 1: like the nineties or something, so there were some VHS
Speaker 1: recordings floating around, but that was it. But the Shout
Speaker 1: Factory finally released a DVD of it a few years ago.
Speaker 1: So it's on Amazon. You get it for twelve bucks
Speaker 1: for the whole whole season, and there's even a little
Speaker 1: short behind the scenes featurette look back documentary which is,
Speaker 1: which is interesting worth checking out. So if you're on Amazon,
Speaker 1: it's on Amazon twelve bucks or at least when I
Speaker 1: checked the other day with twelve bucks when I was
Speaker 1: writing the article, and for the whole season, so it's
Speaker 1: like fifty cents an episode basically worth it and uh
Speaker 1: and it's good. You can see where a certain point
Speaker 1: late in the season, Serling seems to have maybe lost
Speaker 1: lost to steam because and he he not, he doesn't.
Speaker 1: The last patch Up episodes are not written by him.
Speaker 1: They're written by other writers, which is fine.
Speaker 2: It fall through ye this episode called man Trap.
Speaker 1: Yes there is, yes, yeah. Oh and the Homecoming of
Speaker 1: Lemuel sto Stove features Brock Peters, who would eventually play
Speaker 1: Ye Papa Cisco and and also Admiral Cartwright as well.
Speaker 1: Right right, uh, well, you know what, because of what
Speaker 1: it was, it was, it's it was a night aired
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty five in nineteen sixty six that season, there's
Speaker 1: a lot of Star Trek people, Star Trek adjacent peeple
Speaker 1: are involved, like Joseph Pevney directed some episodes, who directed
Speaker 1: episodes of the original series. A lot of the act
Speaker 1: A lot of familiar actor faces show up that who
Speaker 1: will also show up on on Star Trek like you know,
Speaker 1: it was just it was that was the time period
Speaker 1: people making TV. You know.
Speaker 2: So also Alexander Courage and Jerry Goldsmith provided music.
Speaker 1: Yep, absolutely, yeah, that's right. Yeah, young Lloyd Bridges of
Speaker 1: the young Jeff Bridges both both show up for an
Speaker 1: episode each because their dad was the star and uh,
Speaker 1: it's interesting stuff. And it's Sarah who was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know how commonly known this is, but serling, you know,
Speaker 1: he fought World War Two, as did everyone from his generation.
Speaker 1: Basically he came back from the war pretty pretty well
Speaker 1: fucked up. I think it's one of the reasons he
Speaker 1: became a writer and he explores a lot of that stuff.
Speaker 1: Like you guys can't see this, but Phil's dog just
Speaker 1: showed up on screen here. Yeah he's like dad, Yeah,
Speaker 1: time to end this podcast. So anyway, anyway, Sean Connery, Bond,
Speaker 1: the Loner, dig In when you guys can both highly
Speaker 1: highly recommended.
Speaker 2: Thanks for shure, Scott. I like learning new stuff from
Speaker 2: your replomat pics.
Speaker 1: It's like many years ago, my buddy, my buddy from
Speaker 1: high school, was like, Scott, why do you like things
Speaker 1: that are old and my wife is. To this day.
Speaker 1: My wife always like makes fun of me about that.
Speaker 1: She's like, well, yeah, you like things that.
Speaker 2: Are old taste.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, you know so, But that'll do it for us,
Speaker 1: I think, right, yes.
Speaker 2: I thank you for listening. Thanks to the late Harris
Speaker 2: Yellen for all his amazing performances. Yeah, thank you Scott
Speaker 2: for doing this with me. It's always fun talking about
Speaker 2: DS and I especially this episode.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Go check out that Phil's chat with Okuda
Speaker 1: over on Patreon. It's going to be a two parter.
Speaker 1: It's well worth it.
Speaker 2: And until next time, game, We'll see you on Gervide Island.