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True Murder with your 30 00:01:38.040 --> 00:01:40.640 host journalist and author Dan. 31 00:01:40.599 --> 00:01:54.840 Zupanski, Good evening. Have you ever been locked in a 32 00:01:54.879 --> 00:01:58.159 cooler with piles of decomposing humans for so long that 33 00:01:58.239 --> 00:01:59.959 you had to shave all the hair off your boss 34 00:02:00.680 --> 00:02:04.519 in order to get rid of the smell? Joseph Scott Morgan? 35 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:04.799 Did? 36 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:08.319 Have you ever lit a Marlborough from the ignited gas 37 00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:11.759 of a bloated dead man's belly? Joseph Scott Morgan? 38 00:02:11.840 --> 00:02:12.080 Has? 39 00:02:12.759 --> 00:02:14.840 Have you ever wept over a dead dog while not 40 00:02:14.879 --> 00:02:18.800 giving a shit about the dead owner laying next to him? Morgan? 41 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:19.080 Did? 42 00:02:19.479 --> 00:02:23.599 Were you named after a murder victim? Joseph Scott Morgan was? 43 00:02:25.000 --> 00:02:27.759 This isn't Hollywood fantasy. It's the true story of a 44 00:02:27.759 --> 00:02:31.879 boy born into the deprivations of a white trash trailer park, who, 45 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:34.520 as an adult, gets further involved in the desperate back 46 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:38.240 door sagas of the New South. No hot blondes here, 47 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:43.319 just maggots, grief, and the truth about forensics and death investigation. 48 00:02:44.560 --> 00:02:47.560 Joseph Scott Morgan became a death investigator with the Jefferson 49 00:02:47.599 --> 00:02:51.599 Parish Corner's Office in suburban New Orleans in nineteen eighty seven, 50 00:02:52.439 --> 00:02:57.240 the youngest medical legal death investigator in the country. During 51 00:02:57.240 --> 00:02:59.560 the day, Morgan worked in the morgue and at night 52 00:02:59.560 --> 00:03:03.159 investigtion for the coroner. In nineteen ninety two, Morgan became 53 00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:07.800 senior investigator with the Fulton County Medical Examiner's Office in Atlanta. 54 00:03:08.960 --> 00:03:14.719 Morgan is now the professor at Jacksonville State University in Alabama, 55 00:03:15.840 --> 00:03:18.759 where he teaches a death investigation course based on the 56 00:03:18.840 --> 00:03:21.759 National Standards, which he helped develop. The book that we're 57 00:03:21.800 --> 00:03:25.000 featuring this evening is Blood Beneath My Feet, The Journey 58 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:28.560 of a Southern Death Investigator, with my special guest, journalist 59 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:33.719 and author, Joseph Scott Morgan. Welcome to the program and 60 00:03:33.759 --> 00:03:37.240 thank you very much for a Greenness interview. Joseph Scott Morgan. 61 00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:41.120 Good evening, Dan, thanks for having me. It's a real honor. 62 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:45.479 Thank you very much. I hope that I made that 63 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.199 correction in the where you are now working as a 64 00:03:49.280 --> 00:03:53.520 college professor at the University of Jacksonville. Yeah, at State 65 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:54.599 University Jacksonville. 66 00:03:55.000 --> 00:04:01.680 Yeah, Jacksonville State University in eastern Alabama, where about ninety 67 00:04:01.719 --> 00:04:06.280 minutes from west of downtown Atlanta, So just across the 68 00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:09.639 border into the Central Central time zone, which I prefer 69 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:11.240 over the Eastern. So there you go. 70 00:04:14.039 --> 00:04:18.360 You are all over Facebook and the Internet. I just 71 00:04:18.480 --> 00:04:21.480 saw recently, and this is part of a series I believe, 72 00:04:21.480 --> 00:04:27.040 but some appearances on HLN as a guest commentator talking 73 00:04:27.079 --> 00:04:32.319 about the Jeffrey Epstein episode. In this episode tell us 74 00:04:32.360 --> 00:04:36.000 what else that you are all over the place commenting 75 00:04:36.199 --> 00:04:38.560 about tell us where else they can see you? 76 00:04:40.439 --> 00:04:43.199 Yeah, I do. I do quite a bit of work 77 00:04:43.240 --> 00:04:45.199 with hile. I've got a lot of friends there. I 78 00:04:45.319 --> 00:04:48.600 been working there for since, I guess, appearing since about 79 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:54.160 twenty thirteen, I think on the twentieth of October. New 80 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:59.519 series is premiering called The Dead Wives Club, and it's 81 00:04:59.560 --> 00:05:03.959 a platform form for Lorraine broco viewer. I mean listeners 82 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:08.000 are might remember her from The Sopranos and of course 83 00:05:09.079 --> 00:05:12.480 from Goodfellows, and she's the host of the show and 84 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.279 in the first episode, I'll actually be discussing the death 85 00:05:16.839 --> 00:05:21.279 death of Natalie Wood and I'm the medical legal expert 86 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:25.279 on that. And then I appear on Dan Abrams Law 87 00:05:25.279 --> 00:05:30.800 and Crime Network out of Manhattan. I'm a commentator forends, 88 00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:33.079 It's commentator there. I do that two to three days 89 00:05:33.120 --> 00:05:35.120 a week, I guess, for about three hours at a time. 90 00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:41.199 We do live court coverage there occasionally Court TV, uh, 91 00:05:42.199 --> 00:05:45.839 and then a variety of other you know, podcasts and 92 00:05:45.879 --> 00:05:47.560 this sort of thing. And then of course that's in 93 00:05:47.639 --> 00:05:50.639 addition to my teaching duties and my research into the 94 00:05:50.680 --> 00:05:52.639 corner system in America. 95 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:56.720 So luckily you're retired, that's what you're saying. 96 00:05:59.199 --> 00:06:03.000 Yeah, it's uh, but you know it's a you know, Dan, 97 00:06:03.240 --> 00:06:06.600 it's a healthy busy for me. It truly is. It's 98 00:06:06.639 --> 00:06:08.560 almost purgative in a way. Yeah. 99 00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:14.279 Yeah, certainly, as you do write in this incredible book. 100 00:06:14.399 --> 00:06:20.639 Let's talk about your great uncle Joe and your background, 101 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:25.639 where you come from, and the things in your life 102 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.399 that shaped you. Before we talk about how you became 103 00:06:29.040 --> 00:06:32.680 this death investigator by your own choice. 104 00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:37.439 Yeah, you know, Uh, Blood Beneath my Feet was, you know, 105 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:41.439 was a therapeutic work and when I started started the 106 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:45.199 story out, uh, you know, started telling my tale. My 107 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:47.519 uncle Joe had always been a presence in my life. 108 00:06:47.560 --> 00:06:52.040 And interestingly enough, he was a homicide victim that had 109 00:06:52.240 --> 00:06:55.560 actually died I think just over a decade before I 110 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:59.120 was born. But when I was born, he held such 111 00:06:59.160 --> 00:07:02.920 a place of honor in my family. I was named 112 00:07:02.959 --> 00:07:10.879 after him, and so he was. He was a one 113 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:16.480 of one of six children on my paternal grandmother's side 114 00:07:16.639 --> 00:07:21.160 of the family, and her brother the oldest, the eldest, 115 00:07:22.199 --> 00:07:25.519 and she dearly loved him. And he was a union 116 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:30.759 rep in Louisiana, and uh he was in charge of painting, uh, 117 00:07:31.000 --> 00:07:35.079 giving contracts for painting. And there was a bridge in 118 00:07:35.199 --> 00:07:40.319 Louisiana that was had a large amount of money that 119 00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:45.920 was attached to it, and actually it linked Faraday, Louisiana, 120 00:07:45.959 --> 00:07:50.199 the home of Jerry Lee Lewis to to Mississippi. And 121 00:07:50.560 --> 00:07:53.000 this one fellow put in for the bid didn't get it. 122 00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:57.839 And so my uncle was in West Monroe, Louisiana. People 123 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:00.319 might know that from Doug Dynasty at the I've ever 124 00:08:00.360 --> 00:08:03.720 watched that program years ago. He was back in the 125 00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:05.920 fifties getting his haircut on a I think it was 126 00:08:05.959 --> 00:08:10.120 a Saturday morning and he stepped out into the street. 127 00:08:10.439 --> 00:08:14.720 Fellow that felt he had been wronged by my uncle 128 00:08:14.959 --> 00:08:19.600 was waiting in a barroom across the street. Walked in, 129 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:22.800 walked out into the street, called his name, and proceeded 130 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:25.639 to gunning down in the middle of the street with 131 00:08:25.639 --> 00:08:28.920 a thirty eight caliber revolver. My uncle crawling beneath a car, 132 00:08:30.279 --> 00:08:38.519 you know, freshly cut hair, nicely closed. And he died, 133 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:42.120 you know, on that dirty street, beneath that old car 134 00:08:42.159 --> 00:08:44.360 he was trying to get into to escape his own death. 135 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.240 And and you know I was named after this man, 136 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.440 and so it was. It was an interesting linkage for me, 137 00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:54.159 I think, and early on I thought about him, even 138 00:08:54.200 --> 00:08:57.200 as a small child. I remember thinking of him almost 139 00:08:57.200 --> 00:09:01.519 in heroic terms. You know that that he you know, 140 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:04.840 that he died. It was striking to me as as 141 00:09:04.879 --> 00:09:05.559 a young child. 142 00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:10.360 You write the arrest and the sanity hearing in the 143 00:09:10.399 --> 00:09:14.279 trial was front page news for months, What happened to 144 00:09:14.320 --> 00:09:22.159 the killer of your grandfather? And uh, well, you know, 145 00:09:23.279 --> 00:09:27.639 to the people, I've got this, I've traveled very crooked road. 146 00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:31.879 I think even before I was born that the this 147 00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:38.559 fellow was was uh uh acquitted essentially, well he was 148 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:45.080 his prison term was uh. He was exonerated essentially and 149 00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:49.159 released by the governor. And the governor is famous, uh 150 00:09:49.360 --> 00:09:52.799 famously known in Louisiana as the brother of Huey Pelong. 151 00:09:54.279 --> 00:09:57.759 He this particular governor was portrayed in a movie called 152 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:05.159 Blaze by by uh Paul Newman many years ago. And 153 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:07.960 he was just that crazy uh. And you know, my 154 00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:11.279 my family felt like they didn't get justice in this trial. Uh. 155 00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:14.399 This fellow was plugged in politically, and as all people 156 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:18.480 are one way or another in Louisiana. And h interestingly enough, 157 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:24.679 my my grandmother in her uh and her sisters would 158 00:10:24.679 --> 00:10:28.679 send a black wreath to this man's home every single 159 00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:32.840 year on the anniversary of my uncle Joseph's murder. And 160 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:35.720 so that you know, that thread kind of runs through 161 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:38.559 I think my family there was always a you know, 162 00:10:38.639 --> 00:10:43.519 a weeping, if you will. I think that silently went 163 00:10:43.559 --> 00:10:46.639 on and even to the day that all those sisters 164 00:10:46.799 --> 00:10:49.960 died and they're all dead now that generation's gone. Uh, 165 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:52.360 there was a cloud that kind of you know, hung 166 00:10:52.399 --> 00:10:57.159 over them because of this homicide. You know that they 167 00:10:57.159 --> 00:11:02.000 felt like he was never uh, he never avenged essentially, 168 00:11:02.159 --> 00:11:05.600 and and so that that travels down through time. My 169 00:11:05.720 --> 00:11:13.399 father was my grandmother's only only child, and he was 170 00:11:13.399 --> 00:11:16.919 born later in life to my to my grandmother, and 171 00:11:18.159 --> 00:11:21.480 he he had this kind of interesting background. He was 172 00:11:21.559 --> 00:11:24.720 doted on by his mother and abused by his father 173 00:11:25.720 --> 00:11:31.000 there in North Louisiana. They had a horse ranch and farm, 174 00:11:31.480 --> 00:11:34.480 and he was beaten regularly. Well, he grew up mean, 175 00:11:34.879 --> 00:11:37.919 grew up, grew ups, you know, spoiled and mean, and 176 00:11:37.960 --> 00:11:41.639 that translated into his adult life. He's a very violent, 177 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:46.039 very violent fellow. And he and my mother wed when 178 00:11:46.039 --> 00:11:48.120 they were very young. I think he was eighteen, My 179 00:11:48.159 --> 00:11:50.480 mother was seventeen. She by the time she was eighteen, 180 00:11:50.519 --> 00:11:53.720 she was given birth to me. And there was always 181 00:11:53.720 --> 00:11:58.960 a residue of violence that existed with him. He was 182 00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.360 a scary you know, gary man, particularly back in his 183 00:12:01.440 --> 00:12:05.759 younger days, and until that that you know, that culminated. 184 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:10.039 I think uh in uh uh. When I was about 185 00:12:10.080 --> 00:12:13.440 six five or six, he you know, he came came 186 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.879 to my grandmother's house, you know, with a belly full 187 00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:20.080 of bourbon, and he had a sought off Ivor Johnson 188 00:12:20.120 --> 00:12:22.200 double barrel shotgun and he was proclaiming he was going 189 00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:23.919 to kill the whole family. And I was in the house, 190 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:26.639 actually in the backyard, playing in a sand that my 191 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:30.960 grandpa had had acquired for me, a big pile of sand. 192 00:12:31.000 --> 00:12:34.000 What kid doesn't love that, you know, And they heard 193 00:12:34.039 --> 00:12:37.320 him scream into the driveway. My grandmother ran out and 194 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:40.600 he was shouting, you know, calling down the thunder from God, 195 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:44.360 I guess, and you know, and I have vivid memories 196 00:12:44.399 --> 00:12:46.480 of her pulling me in the house and locking the door, 197 00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:51.360 and my grandfather was already in the house. Uh. And 198 00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:54.039 she thrust me under the bed, and you know, I 199 00:12:54.080 --> 00:12:57.159 can still have a memory and I write about it, 200 00:12:57.159 --> 00:13:00.679 and blood beneath my feet of looking out from beneath 201 00:13:00.679 --> 00:13:03.679 the bed, and you could see her knees as she 202 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:06.799 was beside the bed, praying, you know, asking God to 203 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.279 save her from her own son. And it was that 204 00:13:09.440 --> 00:13:13.039 imprinted in my memory, you know, long after that. It 205 00:13:13.159 --> 00:13:17.559 stayed with me for years and years. Then and he, 206 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.559 you know, he was throwing heavy metal furniture, you know, 207 00:13:21.639 --> 00:13:24.799 against against the back of the house. He's screaming out 208 00:13:24.840 --> 00:13:27.720 for his father's blood, that he was going to come 209 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:30.000 in and kill us, and kill his father in particular, 210 00:13:31.200 --> 00:13:33.879 the man that had treated him so roughly as a child, 211 00:13:34.879 --> 00:13:37.440 and he blasted off the shotgun a couple of times 212 00:13:37.440 --> 00:13:40.600 and it, you know, in the interim they had called. 213 00:13:40.600 --> 00:13:42.399 Back then, you couldn't call nine to one one. This 214 00:13:42.519 --> 00:13:46.919 is back in the late sixties. They called zero and 215 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.320 the deputy sheriffs and washingtof pair showed up. And I 216 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:54.679 remember them, really, you know, taking my father to school. 217 00:13:54.720 --> 00:13:57.519 I have an image of him with blood, you know, 218 00:13:57.559 --> 00:14:00.320 coming off out of his nose. I looked out the 219 00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.759 window of my grandma's living room and he was in 220 00:14:03.919 --> 00:14:07.759 he was handcuffed, and uh, I think I talked about 221 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:12.519 stalwart men in khaki uniforms and straw cowboy hats, you know, 222 00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:15.159 and they became my heroes, you know. I saw what 223 00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:19.600 they had done. They walked into into this situation and 224 00:14:20.639 --> 00:14:24.200 drug him away and uh, you know, and hauled him 225 00:14:24.240 --> 00:14:26.360 off to the to the parish that we don't have 226 00:14:26.399 --> 00:14:31.080 counties in Louisiana, parish lock up and there, you know, 227 00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.279 the rest of his life was set in motion. Back then, 228 00:14:33.360 --> 00:14:36.279 they used to tell tell young violent men, you got 229 00:14:36.519 --> 00:14:38.440 one or two choices, you know, you either go to 230 00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:40.799 the penitentiary he joined wrinkle, and go to Vietnam, and 231 00:14:40.840 --> 00:14:43.879 he he decided to join the Corps. 232 00:14:46.480 --> 00:14:51.279 Now, what happens with your mother? You introduced a character 233 00:14:51.399 --> 00:14:55.799 named Bruce. Look like it seemed like answers to everybody's 234 00:14:56.360 --> 00:14:59.919 problems right at that time. Tell us about Bruce Bruce 235 00:15:00.120 --> 00:15:03.559 and your life with Bruce. And after your dad was 236 00:15:03.720 --> 00:15:05.120 in the military and gone. 237 00:15:05.480 --> 00:15:08.559 Yeah, when when my father got home from from Vietnam, 238 00:15:08.600 --> 00:15:11.000 he was probably in from his service in Marine Corps 239 00:15:11.080 --> 00:15:15.120 is probably more damage than when he went in. And 240 00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:19.480 he promptly moved us to Georgia from Louisianna. And you 241 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:21.519 have to keep in mind, my grandmother had essentially been 242 00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:23.879 raising me. My mother worked full time. We lived in 243 00:15:23.919 --> 00:15:28.039 a trailer that was on their part property and UH 244 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:34.720 and you know, on my grandparents' property. And he being 245 00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.840 you know, he had he had talked about moving to 246 00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:40.000 UH when he got out of the Marine Corps. He's 247 00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:41.639 going to move us to Australia. He was going to 248 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:45.879 do construction down there, takes us out to la and 249 00:15:45.879 --> 00:15:49.279 then finally, for whatever reason, he settled on Georgia. And 250 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.399 I had cousins that were already living in Georgia. Georgia 251 00:15:52.440 --> 00:15:54.799 even back then around the Atlanta area was booming and 252 00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:58.440 this was you know, the early seventies. It took us there, 253 00:15:58.879 --> 00:16:04.360 and uh, I guess probably within eighteen months of us 254 00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:08.600 moving to Georgia, he promptly abandoned my mother and I. 255 00:16:08.600 --> 00:16:10.159 I mean, we had nothing. We were living in a 256 00:16:10.200 --> 00:16:15.879 trailer park run you know by this old man that 257 00:16:17.919 --> 00:16:20.399 you know, was an interesting character to say the least. 258 00:16:21.440 --> 00:16:28.240 And my mother very still, very young, very beautiful, and 259 00:16:27.600 --> 00:16:30.120 she was trying to make her way, you know, as 260 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:34.360 best she could. And she was working for a textile 261 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:36.879 company and she met this guy that was in sales 262 00:16:37.720 --> 00:16:39.440 that happened to be there, and he was refined. He 263 00:16:39.519 --> 00:16:44.039 was everything that my father was not. He was college educated, 264 00:16:44.559 --> 00:16:49.039 appeared to be successful, but he had this kind of 265 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:53.240 thread of hyper religiosity that ran through him. And this 266 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:55.559 is kind of a theme that runs through blood beneath 267 00:16:55.639 --> 00:16:58.840 my feet. There's this, you know, this kind of worrying 268 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.720 that I do, you know, growing up as a Southern 269 00:17:01.799 --> 00:17:05.759 evangelical uh in that you know, in that timeframe of 270 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:09.720 my life, Uh, you know, you're you're fighting to try 271 00:17:09.759 --> 00:17:13.880 to be obedient to your parents and to what you 272 00:17:14.000 --> 00:17:16.400 perceived God wants you to do with your life, and 273 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:19.240 then you're fighting for your own survival. I don't know, 274 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:20.599 you know, this sort of thing. I don't know if 275 00:17:20.599 --> 00:17:23.519 I can endure this any longer. And so for me, 276 00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:30.079 he uh, you know, he he entered my world, Bruce did, 277 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:35.160 and uh it was all you know, uh all fine 278 00:17:35.240 --> 00:17:40.079 and dandy at first. He was wound my mother, uh 279 00:17:40.359 --> 00:17:43.799 you know visa v you know, through me essentially, you know, 280 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:46.160 promising me things that I'd never had, going to pro 281 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.319 pro ball games and college football games and taking us out. 282 00:17:50.319 --> 00:17:52.160 And we were living on Blowney Sandwich is living in 283 00:17:52.240 --> 00:17:55.279 a house trailer d. I mean, we had nothing, and 284 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.519 my mother saw it as a as a way for 285 00:17:57.599 --> 00:18:00.160 us to kind of pull ourselves out of this this 286 00:18:00.519 --> 00:18:02.680 horrible situation that we were kind of living in because 287 00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:08.079 I mean we you know, we didn't have have dom 288 00:18:08.200 --> 00:18:11.200 one and hardly had any food. And uh, you know, 289 00:18:11.279 --> 00:18:13.559 she married him, wound up marrying him very quickly and 290 00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:15.680 Helson follower. 291 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.240 It is Ryan here, And I have a question for you. 292 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:20.400 What do you do when you win? 293 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:20.880 Like? 294 00:18:20.960 --> 00:18:24.039 Are you a fist pumper, a woo, a hand clapper, 295 00:18:24.079 --> 00:18:25.880 a high fiver? I kind of like the high five? 296 00:18:25.920 --> 00:18:27.680 But if you want to hone in on those winning moves. 297 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:31.039 Check out Chumbuck Casino at chumbacasino dot com. Choose from 298 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:33.680 hundreds of social casino style games for your chance to 299 00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:37.519 redeem serious cash prize. There are new game releases weekly, 300 00:18:37.519 --> 00:18:40.440 plus free daily bonuses, so don't wait start having the 301 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.079 most fun ever at chumba Casino dot. 302 00:18:43.039 --> 00:18:46.680 Comillberg's Necessary where I lost the terms conditions eighteen plus. 303 00:18:46.400 --> 00:18:51.759 Thereafter with him, I think I received probably I think 304 00:18:51.799 --> 00:18:58.000 I was. They married when I was nine. He beat 305 00:18:58.039 --> 00:19:00.400 me for the first time two months after they were married, 306 00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:05.880 and then it continued on. You know, I guess until 307 00:19:06.079 --> 00:19:09.920 you know severely, you know, until I was probably fourteen 308 00:19:10.039 --> 00:19:13.640 or so. 309 00:19:13.640 --> 00:19:17.279 So you've come from needless to say, a background of abuse. 310 00:19:18.200 --> 00:19:23.039 How do you get to overcoming this to become and 311 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:25.359 first work for a coroner in New Orleans? How do 312 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.559 you get to a death investigator? How do you tell 313 00:19:28.599 --> 00:19:29.640 us about that? Well? 314 00:19:29.920 --> 00:19:32.440 Yeah, yeah, you know. The thing about it is this, 315 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:35.720 I'd always been told by my views or Bruce that 316 00:19:35.839 --> 00:19:38.680 I was I was never going to amount anything, that 317 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:42.200 I was worthless, And of course the old thing that 318 00:19:42.279 --> 00:19:44.000 comes through is you're going to wind up just like 319 00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:47.759 your dad. And I've fought that my entire life. My 320 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.319 wife will say, there's no need to fight that fight anymore, 321 00:19:50.440 --> 00:19:53.599 you know, God bless her. You know she tells me that, 322 00:19:53.880 --> 00:19:57.519 and you know she has to still to this day, 323 00:19:57.559 --> 00:19:59.319 has to tell me that I'm a success, you know, 324 00:19:59.359 --> 00:20:02.359 because that it's amazing. What should kind of imprint on 325 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:04.559 your kids, you know when you're little, you know when 326 00:20:04.599 --> 00:20:07.279 you hear that or those children that are in your charge. 327 00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:12.039 And so that was always imprinted in my psyche, and 328 00:20:12.079 --> 00:20:16.880 so I always thought it. And when I took this 329 00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.720 kind of circuitous route, wound up back down in kind 330 00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.319 of where our ancestral home is, down in South Louisiana. 331 00:20:25.920 --> 00:20:27.839 I was born in North Louisiana, but all of my 332 00:20:27.880 --> 00:20:30.400 family lived in South Louisiana, in the New Orleans area, 333 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:37.599 and I had uncles down there and extended family, and 334 00:20:37.640 --> 00:20:39.920 I finally wound up down there, showed up in town 335 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:44.079 with nothing. Essentially. I tried college, didn't do too well. 336 00:20:44.079 --> 00:20:46.839 I was in the National Guard and the Army and 337 00:20:47.119 --> 00:20:50.559 kind of transferred to Guard membership was down there with them, 338 00:20:50.680 --> 00:20:55.160 and I was really just seeking. I happened to be 339 00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:59.759 working in a hospital and the parish at that particular 340 00:20:59.799 --> 00:21:03.200 time this is in I guess probably about eighty four 341 00:21:03.400 --> 00:21:08.799 maybe the parish was renovating their morgue and it was unsustainable, 342 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:11.400 you know, it was just horrible. It was. The morgue 343 00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:14.559 was actually built on the site of the old gallows 344 00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:20.400 and down in Gretton and Louisiana where the Jefferson Parish 345 00:21:20.480 --> 00:21:24.319 Corners Office was at one time headquartered, and they actually 346 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:30.279 used to do at the parish level, you know, public 347 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:35.359 executions there back in the eighteen hundreds, and the morgue 348 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.839 itself was built into the prison and so you had 349 00:21:38.839 --> 00:21:41.720 to go through actual security to get into the morgue. Well, 350 00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:43.319 they were trying to renovate this thing to make it 351 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:45.759 viable more. It's very expensive and they wanted to try 352 00:21:45.799 --> 00:21:47.640 to maintain this thing until they could come up with 353 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:52.920 a better solution. So the Corner's office started doing autopsies 354 00:21:52.960 --> 00:21:55.519 at the hospital that I happened to be working at, 355 00:21:55.559 --> 00:21:58.359 and I was working as I first started off as 356 00:21:58.359 --> 00:22:00.559 a security guardener I started working as an er tech 357 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:02.559 while I was going to college down there, and I 358 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:07.640 was very young, I guess I was twenty maybe twenty one, yes, 359 00:22:07.880 --> 00:22:11.200 And I just started bringing bodies in and out of 360 00:22:11.240 --> 00:22:14.039 the Morgan. I became friends with one of the corner investigators. 361 00:22:14.079 --> 00:22:17.720 He turns out to be one of the finest forensic 362 00:22:17.759 --> 00:22:21.759 scientists that I've ever known, one of the finest investigators 363 00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.720 that I've ever known. He and I became fast friends, 364 00:22:23.720 --> 00:22:27.920 and I found myself, of all things, showing up and 365 00:22:28.039 --> 00:22:29.519 you know you're in trouble when you do this. I 366 00:22:29.559 --> 00:22:32.119 was actually showing up to autopsies on my free time. 367 00:22:32.240 --> 00:22:36.160 I wasn't getting paid, and I was in that morgue 368 00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.240 day in and day out cleaning. I'd just mop up 369 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.200 blood and maggots and you know, clean the morgue. I 370 00:22:43.279 --> 00:22:45.759 tell my college students, now you know, they said, Professor Morgan, 371 00:22:45.759 --> 00:22:47.119 I want to do what you did for a living. 372 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:49.039 How'd you start? And said, I volunteered. And you can 373 00:22:49.039 --> 00:22:52.799 see they're countance immediately drop because they have an expectation 374 00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:54.559 they're going to be paid for whatever they want to do. 375 00:22:55.039 --> 00:22:59.799 And so I became a deaner, which is actually translates 376 00:22:59.799 --> 00:23:02.319 from German to servant, and it's a term that you 377 00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:06.200 used for people that prosect bodies were the ones that 378 00:23:06.279 --> 00:23:09.279 actually put the coal stial to bodies, and it just 379 00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.319 it kind of evolved. I found out I had a 380 00:23:12.440 --> 00:23:15.440 natural talent at it, and they first allowed me to 381 00:23:15.519 --> 00:23:18.519 close bodies, which is just using a standard old baseball 382 00:23:18.519 --> 00:23:21.200 stitch that's putting all of the organs back in the 383 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:23.839 body in a big plastic bag. I'm sure a lot 384 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:26.400 of your true crime listeners are very familiar. They've heard 385 00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:31.640 about autopsies before. And then finally I graduated to opening bodies, 386 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.680 and there was a position that came open as a 387 00:23:35.799 --> 00:23:39.799 corner investigator and I had started doing this. I started 388 00:23:39.839 --> 00:23:43.640 dissecting in nineteen eighty five. And it turns out these 389 00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.519 people my life. It's weird how life is. You intersect 390 00:23:46.559 --> 00:23:49.519 with all of these people around along your path and 391 00:23:49.559 --> 00:23:52.200 you don't really realize it. And a guy that was 392 00:23:52.240 --> 00:23:55.759 working there, some listeners might be familiar with him. He 393 00:23:55.880 --> 00:23:59.079 was at the end of his careers named doctor William Eckert, 394 00:23:59.400 --> 00:24:02.079 and he's one of them US renowned forensic pathologists in 395 00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:06.759 the country. He's deceased now and I started actually working 396 00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:11.440 with him as an older fellow, and he, uh, he 397 00:24:11.559 --> 00:24:13.799 taught me a lot. Uh. I learned a lot from 398 00:24:13.880 --> 00:24:16.799 all of the forensic pathologists that I work with worked with, 399 00:24:17.079 --> 00:24:21.480 and I applied for a job as a corner investigator 400 00:24:21.480 --> 00:24:23.960 I think three times, and the two people that got 401 00:24:23.960 --> 00:24:26.559