WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.639 --> 00:00:11.039 You are now listening to True Murder, The most shocking 2 00:00:11.160 --> 00:00:14.199 killers in true crime history and the authors that have 3 00:00:14.240 --> 00:00:21.519 written about them Gaesy, Bundy, Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK. Every 4 00:00:21.559 --> 00:00:25.280 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 5 00:00:25.359 --> 00:00:29.559 infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with your 6 00:00:29.559 --> 00:00:32.759 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 7 00:00:38.759 --> 00:00:45.640 Good Evening, part taxonomy Murder, part prosecutors Handbook, and part 8 00:00:45.679 --> 00:00:50.359 personal memoir. Matt Murphy's The Book of Murder goes through 9 00:00:50.439 --> 00:00:54.200 a dozen cases and his recollections of his twenty six 10 00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:58.439 years in the Orange County DA's office with seventeen years 11 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:03.799 in the homicide unit. Refreshingly honest about the toll such 12 00:01:03.920 --> 00:01:08.719 work takes on one's private life, Murphy weaves his personal 13 00:01:08.840 --> 00:01:13.079 narrative throughout his casework in a way that humanizes the 14 00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:17.400 people entrusted with the duty of seeking justice on behalf 15 00:01:17.560 --> 00:01:22.159 of the public. As he does so, he lays bare 16 00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:26.280 the decision making. A prosecutor goes through building a case 17 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:30.879 to ensure justice is met while telling captivating tale after 18 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:37.120 captivating tale of the world's worst crime. See how a 19 00:01:37.239 --> 00:01:41.480 prosecutor looks at and lives with the very worst crime 20 00:01:42.840 --> 00:01:47.359 The insider's perspective that Murphy gives on the notorious cases 21 00:01:47.359 --> 00:01:52.680 of Skuyler de Leon, Rodney Alcala, Dirty John Meehan, and 22 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:57.079 many others is a vital read for true crime fans everywhere. 23 00:01:58.200 --> 00:02:01.000 The book that we're featuring this evening is The Book 24 00:02:01.040 --> 00:02:06.439 of Murder, a Prosecutor's Journey through Love and Death. With 25 00:02:06.519 --> 00:02:11.840 my special guest, former Senior Deputy District Attorney, Orange County 26 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:18.479 DA Homicide Unit and ABC Legal analyst, Matt Murphy. Welcome 27 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:21.000 to the program, and thank you very much for this interview. 28 00:02:21.439 --> 00:02:28.360 Matt Murphy, Good morning, Good morning, and congratulations on your 29 00:02:28.840 --> 00:02:30.120 the Book of Murder. 30 00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:34.719 Yeah, thank you. Yeah, just came out. I mean yesterday 31 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.479 was really the first big media day, so I you know, 32 00:02:38.680 --> 00:02:40.840 I sort of put myself out there a little bit. 33 00:02:40.879 --> 00:02:44.360 This is probably more personal than I originally thought it 34 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.199 was going to be when I when I embarked on 35 00:02:46.240 --> 00:02:50.439 this this opus of mine. Yeah, it it ended in 36 00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.879 a place that I probably talked more about my my 37 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:57.439 stony inner thoughts than I ever thought I would have. So, 38 00:02:57.639 --> 00:03:00.439 I I don't know, man, I'm a little I'm a 39 00:03:00.479 --> 00:03:03.199 little exposed, I think. So if people hate it, it 40 00:03:03.199 --> 00:03:06.759 will crush my soul. I think that it's been crushed before, 41 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:10.840 so no, I'm sure they'll be loving it like I did. 42 00:03:11.439 --> 00:03:14.599 Let's you grew up in southern California, so just give 43 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:17.159 us a little bit of background before you take us 44 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:20.439 to the point where you're a Deputy DA in the 45 00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:24.680 Orange County DA's office and you say, in the midst 46 00:03:24.719 --> 00:03:28.560 of a years long winning streak, professionally, your career was 47 00:03:28.599 --> 00:03:31.840 on an absolute tear. But the brilliant young woman you 48 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:35.680 thought you marry was marrying someone else. So tell us 49 00:03:35.680 --> 00:03:39.280 about your background and take us to this point in 50 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:41.199 your professional and personal career. 51 00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:44.759 Sure, so, I'm basically I was a California kid. So 52 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:47.439 I grew up in West LA and went to place 53 00:03:47.479 --> 00:03:50.360 called Loyola High School where I still hang out with 54 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.719 a bunch of my buddies from high school that I'm 55 00:03:52.719 --> 00:03:55.719 at when I was fourteen. In fact, we have Fantasy 56 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.919 football just started and I half of the text messages 57 00:03:58.960 --> 00:04:01.759 are then, you know, still making fun of me for 58 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:05.680 whatever whatever my team did. I keep losing a lot. Anyway, 59 00:04:05.680 --> 00:04:08.719 from from high school, I went to UCSB, where I 60 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:10.400 think I was born to go to that school, and 61 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:14.280 I was surfing a bunch, and then I went up 62 00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:17.399 in going to San Diego for law school. And once 63 00:04:17.439 --> 00:04:19.160 I was in law school, it was really the first 64 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:23.399 time I got academically serious. And the way it works 65 00:04:23.439 --> 00:04:25.879 is you you finished your first year and at the 66 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:27.720 beginning of your second year, once you get your first 67 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:31.480 year of grades, and I did well. They did. The 68 00:04:31.560 --> 00:04:34.560 law firms and the various government agencies essentially come to 69 00:04:34.639 --> 00:04:38.639 recruit law students to do clerkships, and I had three 70 00:04:39.519 --> 00:04:41.680 that were I was really interested in. One was this 71 00:04:41.759 --> 00:04:45.160 Plaineiff's firm out of Santa Ana that were you know, 72 00:04:45.199 --> 00:04:47.399 they were crushing it, making a lot of money, like 73 00:04:47.439 --> 00:04:50.959 one of these brass rail law firms, and so that was, 74 00:04:51.079 --> 00:04:53.279 you know, in the in the eyes of a twenty 75 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:56.160 three year old, that looked that looked interesting, you know, 76 00:04:56.279 --> 00:04:59.800 fancy cars and all that. The FBI came in and 77 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:03.959 I they their special agent who was doing those interviews. 78 00:05:03.959 --> 00:05:06.680 We really hit it off, and I did. I did 79 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.920 a series of interviews with the FBI and that was 80 00:05:09.959 --> 00:05:13.040 really intriguing as well. But back then the policy was 81 00:05:13.040 --> 00:05:16.839 they wouldn't assign you where you grew up, where you 82 00:05:16.879 --> 00:05:19.000 went to college, or where you went to law school. 83 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:22.560 Which took out southern California for me. And I've been 84 00:05:22.560 --> 00:05:25.560 surfing since I was a kid, and at you know again, 85 00:05:26.040 --> 00:05:29.000 you know, age twenty three, I couldn't wrap my head 86 00:05:29.000 --> 00:05:32.319 around the idea of moving someplace where it couldn't surf 87 00:05:32.519 --> 00:05:35.519 every chance I had. So the third one was the 88 00:05:35.560 --> 00:05:38.759 Orange County Day's Office, and I was essentially I was 89 00:05:38.839 --> 00:05:41.519 brought in by a woman named Kathy Harper. They did 90 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:45.720 two days of interviews. Her background was sexual assault, so 91 00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:48.800 she was a ligne prosecutor in the sexual assault unit 92 00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.000 before they made her a manager. And I had worked 93 00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:54.639 I started a date ripe education program when I was 94 00:05:54.639 --> 00:05:58.360 at UCSB with my fraternity where we'd educate pledges for 95 00:05:58.439 --> 00:06:02.319 sorties and fraternities about rape and the concept day rape 96 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.720 and alcohol and what consent means. And I'm really proud 97 00:06:06.720 --> 00:06:08.319 of that. It was kind of ahead of its time 98 00:06:08.319 --> 00:06:12.120 in retrospect, and she that caught her eye and she 99 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:15.199 offered me the spot. So I came into the Orange 100 00:06:15.240 --> 00:06:17.839 County DIA's office and I thought, you know, I would 101 00:06:17.879 --> 00:06:20.639 do three years as a deputy DA right, And I 102 00:06:20.680 --> 00:06:23.279 came in at the end of my first day, first 103 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:25.600 day as a junior law clerk. This is the summer 104 00:06:25.639 --> 00:06:28.519 of nineteen ninety two. They would they put us in 105 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:31.399 rits and appeals. So you're doing legal research and writing 106 00:06:31.879 --> 00:06:34.120 with the hope that you'll actually get to appear in 107 00:06:34.199 --> 00:06:37.879 court and argue emotion. And you know, my best friend 108 00:06:37.920 --> 00:06:41.199 in law school, he spent that summer working in the 109 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:46.120 Central Valley of California on Sprinkler system litigation, and you know, 110 00:06:46.199 --> 00:06:48.560 and he was hating his life and regretting its choices. 111 00:06:48.680 --> 00:06:52.000 And my first time in court, it was arguing over 112 00:06:52.879 --> 00:06:56.399 seven hundred thousand dollars in cash that was associated with 113 00:06:56.439 --> 00:07:01.560 the Mexican drug cartel, moving money, moving cash out in California, 114 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.959 and I had drug dealers in the hallway, and I 115 00:07:05.000 --> 00:07:07.199 had a great defense team. I went up against a 116 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:13.000 fantastic judge and I was absolutely hooked. And my three 117 00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:16.240 year plan basically turned into twenty six years. So the 118 00:07:16.319 --> 00:07:18.680 way it works is they start you out in misdemeanors 119 00:07:18.879 --> 00:07:21.480 and you know, they they throw you to the wolves. 120 00:07:21.519 --> 00:07:23.720 You know, they hand you a file and say, hey, 121 00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:26.439 you're picking a jury in twenty minutes. Go to it 122 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:30.040 and you know, you you really you sink or swim, 123 00:07:30.279 --> 00:07:32.279 and they throw you in front of jury's and I 124 00:07:32.319 --> 00:07:35.279 had no idea what I was doing. And you and 125 00:07:35.319 --> 00:07:37.600 it's hard, you know, and you're up there and you 126 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:39.600 don't know if you have any ability in front of 127 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:43.000 a jury, and you you really get your teeth kicked 128 00:07:43.040 --> 00:07:46.759 in a few times, and it's it's quite an experience. 129 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:50.199 And you know, I I as brutal as it was. 130 00:07:50.240 --> 00:07:53.319 I started a thrive on it, and so I went 131 00:07:53.360 --> 00:07:56.199 through misdemeanors. I did thirty seven misdmeanor jury trials. I 132 00:07:56.240 --> 00:07:58.920 spent a little over a year in juvenile court doing 133 00:07:59.399 --> 00:08:01.839 juvenile case a lot of gang cases to I was 134 00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:04.319 in the juvenile gang spot for a while, but it's 135 00:08:04.319 --> 00:08:07.319 all there's no juries there. And then they rotate you 136 00:08:07.399 --> 00:08:10.240 onto what's called the felony panel. And your job on 137 00:08:10.279 --> 00:08:12.800 the felony panel is you just do felony jury trials. 138 00:08:12.879 --> 00:08:15.800 So it's generic felony. So it was like, you know, 139 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:19.720 drug sales, felony, domestic violence before they started the domestic 140 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:24.839 violence unit. Fourth time DUIs, some assaults, some generic robberies, 141 00:08:25.240 --> 00:08:27.480 just kind of a pop prey. I tried twenty four 142 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.759 felony jury trails in one year in that assignment. And 143 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:34.080 then it's almost like the It's almost like the NFL draft, 144 00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:36.679 you know, like draft day for the NFL. They when 145 00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:40.279 the panel class is done, the heads of what are 146 00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:44.799 called vertical units will kind of bid for different lawyers 147 00:08:44.879 --> 00:08:48.399 that are graduating from the felony panel. And so the 148 00:08:49.320 --> 00:08:52.279 vertical unit system in Orange County is different than almost 149 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.840 any other DA's office in America. What typically happens is 150 00:08:56.919 --> 00:09:01.000 the most DA's offices, especially in the heavy cases, they 151 00:09:01.039 --> 00:09:04.120 you'll have, you know, one Deputy DA will review the 152 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.200 investigation for the filing of charges and they'll file what 153 00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:09.120 they think is appropriate, and then it goes to another 154 00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:11.720 Deputy day who will present it to the grand jury 155 00:09:11.879 --> 00:09:14.960 or do the preliminary hearing in front of a judge, 156 00:09:15.120 --> 00:09:18.159 and then it goes to another Deputy DA who assigns 157 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:21.120 it to another Deputy DA for trial. So you have 158 00:09:21.240 --> 00:09:24.919 this it's like an assembly line. And the way Orange 159 00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:27.320 County does it is for the heavy stuff, for the 160 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:34.559 gang crimes, sexual assault, homicide, environmental, major fraud, major narcotics, 161 00:09:34.679 --> 00:09:39.039 the really specialized heavy felony units. What they do is 162 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.440 they will they bring their deputies in and they get 163 00:09:42.480 --> 00:09:45.639 assigned a certain part of the county. So they'll give 164 00:09:45.639 --> 00:09:48.960 you a patch, they call it, so it was you'd 165 00:09:49.000 --> 00:09:52.240 have a certain certain cities. So I got recruited into 166 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.679 the sexual assault unit, and not really recruited. I got 167 00:09:55.720 --> 00:09:57.639 to sign that I wanted to go to gangs because 168 00:09:57.639 --> 00:09:59.799 that looked exciting to me. And I had had a 169 00:09:59.799 --> 00:10:04.039 great run on the felony panel and the supervisor's a 170 00:10:04.039 --> 00:10:07.080 guy named Chuck Middleton, and he said, no, it's my turn, 171 00:10:07.320 --> 00:10:11.240 and they he brought me into sexual assault and I 172 00:10:11.279 --> 00:10:15.000 spent four years there, and they assign you certain cities 173 00:10:15.399 --> 00:10:17.799 so you work with the same detectives and you really 174 00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:21.879 get to specialize in the subject matter. So for four 175 00:10:21.960 --> 00:10:26.279 years I did nothing but rapists and child molester cases. 176 00:10:26.519 --> 00:10:30.879 And in that unit, you learned DNA and you learn 177 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.440 you learn from the important building blocks for where I 178 00:10:34.440 --> 00:10:37.399 would go next. And Orange County is a population of 179 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.200 about three million people. It's the fifth largest district Attorney's 180 00:10:40.200 --> 00:10:44.519 office in the United States. And I got moved into homicide. 181 00:10:44.639 --> 00:10:49.399 I was thirty three, just before my thirty fourth birthday, 182 00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.440 and I still looked like I was twelve, and I've 183 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:56.039 been with somebody for five years, and I was in that, 184 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:59.279 you know, sort of through my mid to late twenties, 185 00:10:59.559 --> 00:11:02.320 and I, you know, it's one of those one of 186 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:04.799 those deals. She really wanted to get married and have kids. 187 00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:08.240 She was an architect, and and I just wasn't ready 188 00:11:08.320 --> 00:11:10.600 to do it. And so I had one of those 189 00:11:10.799 --> 00:11:13.639 sort of like a standoff, you know, and my my 190 00:11:13.679 --> 00:11:17.600 buddy Dennis Conway calls it the old tomato, which is ultimatum. 191 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:20.159 It's like marry me or I'm moving on. And I 192 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:22.039 didn't really think that was gonna be a real thing. 193 00:11:22.240 --> 00:11:25.320 I thought that I thought, you know, we would break 194 00:11:25.399 --> 00:11:27.679 up for a while and get back together. And she 195 00:11:27.759 --> 00:11:31.799 was a really quality person. And you know, as life 196 00:11:31.840 --> 00:11:35.440 often does when, especially on being stupid, I learned a 197 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:39.960 learned a lesson there. She jounded up getting meeting another 198 00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:42.879 guy within like three months, you know, and so I 199 00:11:43.159 --> 00:11:46.799 got rotated. I got rotated into a homicide at the 200 00:11:46.919 --> 00:11:49.519 same time that I found out she'd got engaged at 201 00:11:49.519 --> 00:11:52.320 the new guy. And so I was like, my brain 202 00:11:52.440 --> 00:11:57.440 was basically a country song of of lament, and you know, 203 00:11:57.519 --> 00:11:59.759 how could I be so stupid sort of thing, And 204 00:11:59.759 --> 00:12:03.320 and look in retrospect that that wound up exactly where 205 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:05.759 it should have. You know, the guy she married is 206 00:12:05.799 --> 00:12:09.200 a fantastic guy. He's they're still married, they've still they 207 00:12:09.480 --> 00:12:11.960 had two kids. Like, she got the she got the 208 00:12:12.000 --> 00:12:14.399 life that she wanted. And you know, one of my 209 00:12:14.519 --> 00:12:17.200 best friends, I think I I think I included this 210 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:19.679 in the book I'm not mistaken. His name is Greg maffay, 211 00:12:20.279 --> 00:12:22.360 and he's one of my buddies from high school and 212 00:12:22.360 --> 00:12:24.039 he went to college with both of them. In fact, 213 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:28.360 he introduced me and her and he you know that 214 00:12:28.440 --> 00:12:30.799 old saying, you know you know your friends because they're 215 00:12:30.799 --> 00:12:32.360 the ones that's stabby in the chest and not on 216 00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:35.000 the back right. And he came up to me and 217 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:36.519 he put his arm around me, and he knew them 218 00:12:36.519 --> 00:12:38.559 both pretty well, and he goes, he goes, look at 219 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:42.120 it this way, dude, He goes, he's just just like you, 220 00:12:42.679 --> 00:12:45.559 just a little better in every way. And he's like, 221 00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:47.399 but he's a great guy. And you know, you want 222 00:12:47.399 --> 00:12:49.440 to hate the new guy. And every all of my 223 00:12:49.519 --> 00:12:51.240 friends that knew him in college were like, you know what, 224 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.799 he really is a great guy. And he is. But anyway, 225 00:12:54.919 --> 00:12:58.159 so I my first week in homicide, I was I 226 00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:01.360 was you know, most of your listeners have had that 227 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:04.559 experience that'd broken a heart on a Saturday night sort 228 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.039 of thing, and I was, I was, you know, I 229 00:13:07.080 --> 00:13:09.440 was in that canty, can't sleep. How did I screw 230 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:12.559 it up? Phase? So I was surfing a ton in 231 00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:15.559 the morning, just trying to clear my head a little bit. 232 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.000 And my first week in the unit, I'm in the 233 00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:22.919 water and I get out and I barely even I 234 00:13:22.919 --> 00:13:25.519 don't even think i'd read all the files yet on 235 00:13:25.519 --> 00:13:28.360 my caseload, and I got I got my first homicide 236 00:13:28.360 --> 00:13:32.279 call out. So because it's a vertical unit, I had 237 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:34.919 the cities of Newport Beach Coast to Maso, Laguna Beach 238 00:13:34.919 --> 00:13:39.960 and Irvine, and I was they would have us go 239 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:42.600 to the murder scenes. And your job there as a 240 00:13:42.639 --> 00:13:45.480 prosecutor is not to interfere and it certainly you're not 241 00:13:45.519 --> 00:13:49.559 responsible for the investigation, but you're there to assist. You're 242 00:13:49.600 --> 00:13:52.039 there to make sure that you know, the warrants are 243 00:13:52.039 --> 00:13:55.639 done properly, and really your job is to ensure that 244 00:13:55.840 --> 00:13:59.240 the constitutional rights of any criminal defendant are scrupulously ad 245 00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:01.840 here too. And it also makes it easier on the 246 00:14:01.879 --> 00:14:05.360 detectives because they've got a you know, they've got you know, 247 00:14:05.399 --> 00:14:08.200 a lawyer there to help bounce legal ideas like do 248 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:11.080 we you know, if this guy gave consent, for example, 249 00:14:11.159 --> 00:14:13.840 do we need a search warrant? Or if this isn't 250 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:15.919 his house, do we need a search warrant? Or what 251 00:14:15.960 --> 00:14:17.279 do you think? Do we need a search more from 252 00:14:17.279 --> 00:14:19.240 this car? So there's somebody that could kind of help 253 00:14:19.320 --> 00:14:23.440 them navigate some of the legal complexities of that. And then, 254 00:14:23.480 --> 00:14:26.360 of course is the DA. The way it works is 255 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:28.720 I was the one who would ultimately decide when there 256 00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:31.440 was enough evidence in the case who to charge what 257 00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:33.799 to charge them with. Then it would be my job 258 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:36.320 to follow the case all the way up. So in 259 00:14:36.360 --> 00:14:39.600 the traditional model where one DA does the filing and 260 00:14:39.639 --> 00:14:42.559 another DA does the prelim, the way Orange County does 261 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.080 it is you've got one prosecutor there that night or 262 00:14:46.120 --> 00:14:49.440 that afternoon with the detectives, the women and men of 263 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.279 that department, who is learning all the facts in real time, 264 00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:57.519 and then you handle every aspect of it in court. 265 00:14:57.639 --> 00:15:00.639 You do the filing, you do the preliminary hearing, you 266 00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:04.519 do the bail reviews, and you try the case. And 267 00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.480 then the detective that was with you that night at 268 00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:10.440 three o'clock in the morning, he or he will be 269 00:15:10.519 --> 00:15:13.559 sitting next to you at trial all the way through 270 00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:16.360 to the end of sentencing, and it is a better 271 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:18.559 way to do it, I think. And no criticism on 272 00:15:18.600 --> 00:15:22.519 any other DA's offices anywhere, but it really when you 273 00:15:22.559 --> 00:15:26.679 are a DA and you see it for yourself, and 274 00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:30.799 you're there and you see, you know, a victim notification. 275 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:33.879 You know, like if a lot of murders happen inside homes, 276 00:15:33.919 --> 00:15:36.039 and a lot of murder domestic violence things, and a 277 00:15:36.039 --> 00:15:38.519 lot of them happened on holidays. And when you see 278 00:15:38.559 --> 00:15:42.360 the death notification delivered to a loved one of some 279 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.600 poor person that's been murdered, that is dead inside that house, 280 00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:50.679 you see the visceral enormity of your responsibility, if that 281 00:15:50.720 --> 00:15:56.639 makes sense. Yes, you understand the apoplectic grief within a 282 00:15:56.679 --> 00:15:59.840 family when a daughter or son learns that their mother 283 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.559 or father has been murdered, or even the ones that 284 00:16:02.799 --> 00:16:04.919 really got to me is when the mom learns that 285 00:16:04.960 --> 00:16:08.879 their child has been killed and those and you know, 286 00:16:08.919 --> 00:16:11.120 the first thing I would do is I would sit down, 287 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.480 I have a meeting. Once we filed charges with the family, 288 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:17.519 I'd give them my personal cell phone number just so 289 00:16:17.559 --> 00:16:19.799 they knew there were people who cared. And I worked 290 00:16:19.799 --> 00:16:23.399 with wonderful people I worked with. My team was, you know, 291 00:16:23.440 --> 00:16:26.799 and I'm biased here was the absolute best. So I 292 00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.080 had a paralegal named Dina Basham. My final investigator in 293 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:32.000 the Home City unit was a man named Don Holford, 294 00:16:32.240 --> 00:16:34.440 who I worked with when he was a detective and 295 00:16:34.440 --> 00:16:37.159 then when he was the sergeant of the custom as 296 00:16:37.200 --> 00:16:39.799 the CP units, who's in charge of the homicide detectives. 297 00:16:40.039 --> 00:16:42.799 He's just one of the best humans I've ever known. 298 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:45.759 But I was very lucky with my investigators. So in 299 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:48.559 the DA's office, you also get assigned a police officer 300 00:16:48.600 --> 00:16:52.559 within the DA's office, a DA investigator who is your partner, 301 00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:54.480 and you got all those scenes together and you work 302 00:16:54.559 --> 00:16:57.159 the case step together. So I'd have the detective from 303 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:01.759 the agency and then my own investigator, and it's we 304 00:17:01.759 --> 00:17:05.599 were kind of bulletproof, you know. You put together a 305 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:07.799 group of people like that, especially if you if you 306 00:17:07.839 --> 00:17:11.119 get good ones and you throw in a few decent judges, 307 00:17:11.359 --> 00:17:14.240 a decent jury vanira, which is the jury pool, and 308 00:17:14.279 --> 00:17:16.640 you're going to achieve justice, as corny as that sounds, 309 00:17:16.680 --> 00:17:19.559 if you're dedicated to it. So back to my first day, 310 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:23.559 So I've finished four years in sexual assault, so I 311 00:17:23.599 --> 00:17:26.480 knew those cases very well, but that you know, visiting 312 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:28.599 the crime scene on a sexual assault case is not 313 00:17:28.680 --> 00:17:30.880 the same thing as a homicide, you know, because it's 314 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.119 basically all the same. It's in a dark room somewhere 315 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:36.119 in a house, or some poor child as being sexually abused, 316 00:17:36.119 --> 00:17:39.000 and you know, you don't quite get the same takeaways 317 00:17:38.759 --> 00:17:41.880 as murder. So I get out of the water doing 318 00:17:41.920 --> 00:17:46.079 my you know, country song reel of laments in my brain, 319 00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:49.640 and my phone had blown up with messages. I get 320 00:17:49.680 --> 00:17:52.119 back to my car and I there was a murder 321 00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:56.160 on Newport Beach. So I'm driving down and Newport is 322 00:17:56.200 --> 00:17:59.640 a beautiful city. It is like I think I described 323 00:17:59.640 --> 00:18:01.759 it in the boat. It's like Beverly Hills by the sea. 324 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:06.279 It's got all the all the money and coture of 325 00:18:06.839 --> 00:18:11.079 Beverly Hills, but with bikinis and surfboards. It's a it's 326 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:14.759 a unique place. But there is a ton of money there, 327 00:18:15.039 --> 00:18:18.400 and so what as a result the city council. The 328 00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.039 city is well well run. They're well managed, and they 329 00:18:21.039 --> 00:18:24.720 have a top notch It's small, but they're an excellent 330 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:27.799 police department and they you know, they you know, they 331 00:18:27.839 --> 00:18:30.240 do it right and they devote the resources. One there's 332 00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:32.119 a home side. So I go to my first scene 333 00:18:33.079 --> 00:18:35.079 and I will, I mean, I'll never forget any of them, 334 00:18:35.079 --> 00:18:37.720 but this one in particular. And I've just you know, 335 00:18:37.839 --> 00:18:40.359 I've seen all those TV shows. We've all seen it, 336 00:18:40.400 --> 00:18:42.799 like what happens with the new guy, right, what happens 337 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:44.960 with the new guy and the homicide? You know, it's 338 00:18:45.079 --> 00:18:50.000 on TV. It's a trope. They always they they throw up, right, 339 00:18:50.079 --> 00:18:52.079 So I think this was going to be my my 340 00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:55.400 third dead body that I'd ever seen. And I'm thinking, 341 00:18:55.559 --> 00:18:58.319 you know, don't puke, don't puke, don't puke, right, That 342 00:18:58.400 --> 00:18:59.720 was what was going on in my head. And they 343 00:19:00.079 --> 00:19:02.880 they take me in and it's this beautiful town home, 344 00:19:03.119 --> 00:19:05.400 you know, and it's it's a, like I said, a 345 00:19:05.559 --> 00:19:08.160 very wealthy area. And this is everything in this place 346 00:19:08.240 --> 00:19:10.480 is perfect, and it was. This was back when berber 347 00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:14.240 carpet it was a fashionable item in your house. I 348 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:16.920 think now everybody's gone to hardwood floors, but back then 349 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:19.759 it was white berber carpet and it was I just 350 00:19:19.799 --> 00:19:22.680 remember walking in and it was I remember thinking the 351 00:19:22.720 --> 00:19:26.039 carpet was perfect. It was because and it was it 352 00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:29.200 was too white I remember thinking for all of like 353 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.920 the the utility boots that were walking on it, because 354 00:19:32.920 --> 00:19:37.160 you've got you know, you've got CSI personnel, you got detectives, 355 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.920 you got uniform cops there, you know, they're they're there 356 00:19:39.920 --> 00:19:42.039 are firemen that come in to ensure the person's dead. 357 00:19:42.039 --> 00:19:44.640 I mean, it's like boot after boot after boot. And 358 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:47.880 I just remember seeing this perfectly white carpet and then 359 00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:50.599 they lead me in and there was the man, my first, 360 00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:53.880 uh my first homicide victim, and he was on his 361 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.839 back in the kitchen, looking up to the ceiling, you know. 362 00:19:56.880 --> 00:20:00.000 And you know, there's a certain look that dead people 363 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:04.960 have that is it's nobody creates it in the movies. 364 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.920 It is. It's you can just look at somebody's face 365 00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:10.599 and you can see, you know, you know, when they 366 00:20:10.599 --> 00:20:15.000 were dead. And you know, I remember thinking, you know, 367 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:16.839 am I going to do the new guy thing I've 368 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.359 seen on TV and throw up all over the crime scene. 369 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:22.119 And so it's like, okay, Murphy, don't puke, don't puke, 370 00:20:22.200 --> 00:20:25.599 don't puke. And I look down and immediately I notice 371 00:20:26.039 --> 00:20:28.559 he had a wallet chain going to his right back pocket. 372 00:20:28.640 --> 00:20:32.480 So he's on his back and in his left hand 373 00:20:32.920 --> 00:20:37.519 there was a small folding knife and it just instantly 374 00:20:37.559 --> 00:20:40.640 It's like, well that that makes no sense. Why would 375 00:20:40.839 --> 00:20:43.039 why would a left handed guy keep his wallet in 376 00:20:43.079 --> 00:20:45.880 his right back pocket or if he's right handed, why 377 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:48.079 would have a knife in his left hand? And it 378 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.839 was just instantaneous, and from that point on it was like, Okay, 379 00:20:52.319 --> 00:20:57.200 I just got this weird sense of kind of belonging, 380 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.319 you know, like I was. And then the detect that 381 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.000 was walking me through it as a guy named Dave 382 00:21:02.079 --> 00:21:06.039 Byington who wound up in the years to come becoming 383 00:21:06.039 --> 00:21:08.559 one of my best friends. And this guy was he 384 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:10.960 was older than me, and he was you know, these 385 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:15.440 detectives see it all and I'm like and I literally 386 00:21:15.559 --> 00:21:17.359 I looked like I was twelve when I was in 387 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.559 my early thirties. And I walk in, So you got 388 00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:24.519 this this absolute, completely green rookie, and he got this 389 00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.640 semi grizzled, you know, detective who lived a lot of life. 390 00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.400 And he's giving me the tour. So we walk upstairs 391 00:21:30.440 --> 00:21:34.640 in this house and there's bullet holes in the wall upstairs, 392 00:21:35.119 --> 00:21:38.359 and there's a semi circular blood smear on the on 393 00:21:38.440 --> 00:21:42.279 the staircase, like the staircase wall, you know, as you're 394 00:21:42.319 --> 00:21:45.559 walking down and then he's he's dead at the bottom 395 00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:48.279 of the stairs on his back that are victim, and 396 00:21:48.599 --> 00:21:53.519 so you start you know, it was the first time 397 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:57.000 I realized that homicid scenes are just three dimensional puzzles 398 00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:00.519 and you're there to put the pieces together. And so 399 00:22:00.559 --> 00:22:04.920 there's broken glass, there was there were these rose petals 400 00:22:05.559 --> 00:22:09.920 leading to the to the primary bedroom, and the bed 401 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:13.519