WEBVTT 1 00:00:01.080 --> 00:00:03.000 How'd you like to listen to dot net rocks with 2 00:00:03.040 --> 00:00:07.879 no ads? Easy? Become a patron for just five dollars 3 00:00:07.919 --> 00:00:10.800 a month. You get access to a private RSS feed 4 00:00:10.839 --> 00:00:14.240 where all the shows have no ads. Twenty dollars a month, 5 00:00:14.279 --> 00:00:16.920 we'll get you that and a special dot net Rocks 6 00:00:16.960 --> 00:00:21.000 patron mug. Sign up now at Patreon dot dot NetRocks 7 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:38.240 dot com. Happy Thanksgiving all our US people. It's dot 8 00:00:38.320 --> 00:00:40.280 net rocks. I'm Carl Franklin and. 9 00:00:40.240 --> 00:00:42.719 I'm Richard Campbell. And it's not Thanksgiving in Canada. That 10 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:48.960 was last month, right, yep, yep? So yeah, what can 11 00:00:49.000 --> 00:00:51.240 we say, Richard? I mean I had a I did 12 00:00:51.240 --> 00:00:53.359 my Thanksgiving last night. Oh nice. 13 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:54.479 Yeah, we're recording this. 14 00:00:54.600 --> 00:00:58.479 Yeah, we're actually recording this on the Thursday, so on Thanksgiving. 15 00:00:58.600 --> 00:01:01.840 Yeah in the US. But we did it yesterday. I 16 00:01:01.880 --> 00:01:03.159 think that's clever. Smart. 17 00:01:03.280 --> 00:01:08.200 Yeah. I'm going to share my turkey recipe in the Lynx. 18 00:01:08.359 --> 00:01:11.879 Basically what I did is I used a SOUVD preparation 19 00:01:12.599 --> 00:01:15.439 for the turkey breast. Oh really on a turkey, Well, 20 00:01:15.519 --> 00:01:18.200 just for the turkey breasts. Oh okay, so you dismantled 21 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:20.879 the turkey dismantled. It took out all the bones and 22 00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:24.359 roasted those for gravy and took off the breast and 23 00:01:24.519 --> 00:01:26.200 so those just get a little salt and pepper and 24 00:01:26.239 --> 00:01:28.959 go in a in a you know, sealed. 25 00:01:28.560 --> 00:01:30.879 Bag to maximize moisture, right yep. 26 00:01:31.159 --> 00:01:33.920 And it was one hundred and forty five degrees for 27 00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:39.239 two hours and it came out just perfect, that soft, 28 00:01:39.439 --> 00:01:42.879 you know, tender. And then the legs I did. I 29 00:01:42.920 --> 00:01:45.200 took out the bones. I can't believe we're talking about this, 30 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.159 but took out the femurs and then you know, salt 31 00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:52.079 and pepper and little sage and those went in the oven. 32 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:56.120 So yeah, so those were my turkey parts. 33 00:01:56.239 --> 00:01:56.799 That's awesome. 34 00:01:56.920 --> 00:01:57.400 It was good. 35 00:01:57.400 --> 00:01:59.359 Hey, you know, turkey recipes are a thing this time 36 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:01.239 of year. What can I say the one time anybody 37 00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:02.840 cares about turkey really well. 38 00:02:02.640 --> 00:02:06.000 In at least in North America and you're in Europe, like, yeah, well. 39 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:09.240 Not so much. No, Turkey's in North American phenomenon very much. 40 00:02:09.680 --> 00:02:09.879 Yeah. 41 00:02:10.120 --> 00:02:12.599 I was listening to an interview with Eric Prepare from 42 00:02:12.719 --> 00:02:17.560 La Bernadine, famous chef. He's like, the turkey is to 43 00:02:17.879 --> 00:02:22.759 drive for me, I must have duck fat and you know, 44 00:02:22.919 --> 00:02:24.360 goose liver. Pete. 45 00:02:24.560 --> 00:02:26.800 Yeah, listen, the right The only reason to cook a 46 00:02:27.240 --> 00:02:30.439 cook duc is so that you have duck fat for potatoes. Exactly, 47 00:02:30.639 --> 00:02:31.479 it's the only reason. 48 00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.000 All right, let's get started with better know framework? 49 00:02:34.039 --> 00:02:35.919 Hang on, you should we do the nineteen twenty seven 50 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:37.360 Things Is episode ninety twenty seven. 51 00:02:37.439 --> 00:02:39.840 Hey, you know that's a great idea. Yeah, I don't 52 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:41.199 have anything prepared? What do you have? 53 00:02:41.879 --> 00:02:44.599 Nineteen twenty seven was the year that Charles Limberg flew 54 00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:48.919 solo across the Atlantic. Oh yeah, yeah, New York to Paris. 55 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.240 Man, lucky, Lindy. 56 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:53.280 He made it, and then he celebrated the snot out 57 00:02:53.280 --> 00:02:56.000 of it. He didn't immediately on a tour won medals 58 00:02:56.039 --> 00:02:58.159 like the whole nine yards, so he knew what he 59 00:02:58.199 --> 00:03:02.199 was doing. Tried to run for president too, right, I think? Yeah, anyway, 60 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:03.599 there you go. That's what I happened to nine. That's 61 00:03:03.599 --> 00:03:04.960 the best thing I have a nine twenty seven. There's 62 00:03:04.960 --> 00:03:06.000 all kinds of crazy that I said. 63 00:03:06.199 --> 00:03:08.560 Okay, all right, good, all right, so better no framework? 64 00:03:08.639 --> 00:03:09.240 Roll the music? 65 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:18.039 All right? All right, man? What do you got? 66 00:03:18.080 --> 00:03:18.159 Well? 67 00:03:18.159 --> 00:03:21.199 I don't know if you've seen this, but some guys 68 00:03:21.280 --> 00:03:23.879 to Avalonia, you know, which. 69 00:03:23.680 --> 00:03:26.199 Is the UI framework. 70 00:03:25.919 --> 00:03:31.159 UI framework that goes multiplatform and they recreated visual Basic six. 71 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:34.719 What and you can even run it in your browser. 72 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:36.319 Oh my goodness, that's hilarious. 73 00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.759 Okay, so some caveats that the language support is limited, 74 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:43.639 but you get the visual Designer. You can save in 75 00:03:43.719 --> 00:03:47.199 load projects in VB six format MDI interface. 76 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:48.039 I'm excited. 77 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:53.479 Yeah, right, it's really funny. 78 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.520 I mean it is really awesome. I just couldn't remember 79 00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:00.240 how to write VB six code, so, of course not. 80 00:04:00.319 --> 00:04:01.919 It's been twenty years. 81 00:04:01.840 --> 00:04:04.759 And the compiler was ruthless, Like, you know, hey, if 82 00:04:04.759 --> 00:04:06.680 you don't fix this problem, I'm gonna pop up a 83 00:04:06.719 --> 00:04:09.840 dialogue like every five seconds and tell you to fix it, 84 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:12.159 tell you how wrong you yeah, and not give you 85 00:04:12.199 --> 00:04:13.960 an opportunity to fix it. 86 00:04:13.960 --> 00:04:16.720 It's just funny, you know, fix it faster. You're not 87 00:04:16.720 --> 00:04:18.920 fixing it fast enough. Get fixing what's wrong with you? 88 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:21.240 Yeah? I guess if you know what code you're going 89 00:04:21.319 --> 00:04:23.319 to put in there and copy and paste it, it's 90 00:04:23.360 --> 00:04:25.639 probably gonna be a lot better your experience. 91 00:04:25.720 --> 00:04:26.040 Maybe. 92 00:04:26.120 --> 00:04:26.800 Yeah. 93 00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:28.600 I don't know if you have any old VB six 94 00:04:28.639 --> 00:04:30.720 code around. I bet I do. I don't sit in 95 00:04:30.759 --> 00:04:33.480 a volder somewhere. Goodness knows, maybe we'll have to. 96 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.680 Go on you know, the wayback Machine. 97 00:04:37.480 --> 00:04:39.319 There was a website. What was it called? Was it 98 00:04:39.399 --> 00:04:40.399 Carl and Gary? 99 00:04:40.800 --> 00:04:44.000 Yeah, that's right, Yeah, probably find some stuff there a. 100 00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:46.680 Few years ago. You know that would be a thing. Okay, 101 00:04:46.759 --> 00:04:49.600 well that's what I got. Richard, who's talking to us today? Thanks, 102 00:04:50.040 --> 00:04:52.439 grabbed a comment. I went to the Wayback Machine to 103 00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:55.240 show nine to nine six one we did with old 104 00:04:55.279 --> 00:04:57.839 Doc Norton. Remember Doc Norton in a while, Oh yeah, 105 00:04:58.000 --> 00:05:02.439 we saw him on the twenty anniversary show talking about 106 00:05:02.439 --> 00:05:05.160 agile metrics back then I was twenty fourteen. Lots of 107 00:05:05.160 --> 00:05:08.560 comments on this show, and Mattias Carlo had this comment. 108 00:05:08.560 --> 00:05:10.399 Admittedly it's from ten years ago. He says, I believe 109 00:05:10.399 --> 00:05:13.680 there are a couple of flaws on some of the argumentation. 110 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:15.879 So that was the debate that Doc and you and 111 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:18.360 I were happy about this about setting goals on metrics. 112 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:20.759 While they can be good, the way they're described could 113 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.240 make it horrible. The reason why is that if you 114 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:25.279 take any measurement by itself, it has no meaning and 115 00:05:25.319 --> 00:05:30.160 therefore can cause problems, like people gamify the metric. What 116 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:32.759 actually has to be done is to measure multiple points 117 00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.560 and make sense of it all. So not one set goal, 118 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:38.600 but many, and so that would be goals for Velocity, 119 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:41.759 goals for bugs, goals for tech deck. Really the more 120 00:05:41.800 --> 00:05:44.160 the merrier. Then you slowly start adjusting them all as 121 00:05:44.199 --> 00:05:46.680 the team allows. So don't let any one goal be 122 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.480 the focus. But you left the tide of all these 123 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.720 different kinds of metricis. This idea has been proved many times. Example, 124 00:05:54.759 --> 00:05:56.560 the whole IQ thing. There are people that have very 125 00:05:56.800 --> 00:05:58.399 high IQ as we know, but not all of them 126 00:05:58.399 --> 00:06:00.839 have other measures that are high like emotion que, social 127 00:06:00.879 --> 00:06:03.560 que and so on, that are actually needed for things 128 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:05.959 to happen, and therefore lots of things never happen. 129 00:06:06.279 --> 00:06:09.199 And you've got to measure for brain damage. Yeah, brain damage, 130 00:06:09.519 --> 00:06:12.800 brain damage, brain damage. 131 00:06:13.839 --> 00:06:16.439 So first you get to measure one measure with a 132 00:06:16.519 --> 00:06:18.480 goal and see where's impacted. And you start measuring all 133 00:06:18.519 --> 00:06:19.800 of them, and you try to get goals to all 134 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:22.399 of them like levers, and there's an optimal performance sitting 135 00:06:22.399 --> 00:06:25.120 in there somewhere, just like an engine. Yeah, I can't 136 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.720 argue with that. I'm interested in getting more metrics, and 137 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:32.279 certainly the challenge is applying them well, not trying to 138 00:06:32.319 --> 00:06:35.519 create problems, you're trying to solve them. So Mateias, thank 139 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:36.839 you so much for your comment and a copy of 140 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:38.319 music Coby. It's on its way to you. And if 141 00:06:38.319 --> 00:06:40.000 you'd like a comic of music, codbe I write a 142 00:06:40.000 --> 00:06:42.240 comment on the website at dot net Rock's com or 143 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:44.160 on the facebooks. We publish every show there, and if 144 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:45.519 you comment there and I read on the show, we'll 145 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:46.839 send you a copy of music go by. 146 00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:49.439 And you could follow us on social media. Richard and 147 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.560 I have been on x Twitter for many, many, many years. 148 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.519 Although it clearly seems to be collapsing now, like the 149 00:06:56.839 --> 00:06:59.639 followers are dropped by, people are deleting accounts. 150 00:06:59.759 --> 00:07:03.560 Yeah, yep, so a lot of us are on blue Sky. 151 00:07:03.879 --> 00:07:07.560 I'm Carl Franklin b sky dot social. 152 00:07:07.240 --> 00:07:09.120 And I'm rich Campbell dot b Sky dot social. 153 00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.079 And we're also on mastadon I'm at Carl Franklin at 154 00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:15.040 techhub dot social, and I'm rich Campbell at mass Social. 155 00:07:15.160 --> 00:07:17.800 All right, now we got that out of the way. Yeah, 156 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:22.120 let's introduce Richard. The other Richard in the room, Richard Gross. 157 00:07:22.759 --> 00:07:26.600 He's an it archaeologist at my Born Wolf. Did I 158 00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:29.480 say that right? Richard you did all right, with more 159 00:07:29.519 --> 00:07:33.279 than ten years of modernization experience. I love that an 160 00:07:33.279 --> 00:07:37.040 it archaeologist, that's really cool, speaking. 161 00:07:36.680 --> 00:07:38.720 Of a lot of the heck were you thinking? 162 00:07:38.800 --> 00:07:46.000 Kind right, let's examine the ruins of this project. His 163 00:07:46.120 --> 00:07:51.839 focus is on hexagonal architectures, hypermedia APIs, test dsls, and 164 00:07:51.879 --> 00:07:56.199 the expressive and unambiguous modeling of the domain as code. 165 00:07:56.759 --> 00:08:01.279 He enjoys mastering TDD bdd d Ddungeons and Dragons D 166 00:08:01.439 --> 00:08:04.600 coupled design. I made that up that Dungeons and Dragons 167 00:08:04.639 --> 00:08:09.000 part D and D. Yeah, decoupled design and even practices 168 00:08:09.040 --> 00:08:12.759 that don't include two d's. He's also shaped the open 169 00:08:12.839 --> 00:08:18.319 source project code Charta, which lets even non developers grasp 170 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.360 the quality of their software. Now I got to ask Richard, 171 00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:23.480 do you play D and D? 172 00:08:24.279 --> 00:08:28.720 I did? I was actually a dungeon master for How 173 00:08:28.759 --> 00:08:29.480 did I know that? 174 00:08:29.879 --> 00:08:30.439 Two years? 175 00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:31.120 So somew. 176 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:35.159 Wow, okay, so the d's follow you wherever you go. 177 00:08:36.480 --> 00:08:38.799 Yeah, actually I'm a bit said that. I'm not in 178 00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:42.720 tenacious D. But you know it's a two main group. 179 00:08:42.559 --> 00:08:48.360 Right, Yeah, let's see those guys are squabbling too, aren't 180 00:08:48.360 --> 00:08:49.240 they If there's. 181 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:51.679 Yeah, yeah, but I don't I don't think they have 182 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:53.480 a place for me. I cannot play guitar and I 183 00:08:53.480 --> 00:08:54.039 cannot sing. 184 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:56.360 Yeah, I think you know, if there was going to 185 00:08:56.399 --> 00:09:00.120 be a Tenacious d dot Net Rocks guest band, and 186 00:09:00.279 --> 00:09:03.000 it would probably be added up by Dylan Betty, don't 187 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:03.519 you think. 188 00:09:03.480 --> 00:09:05.399 Yeah, that would be pretty obvious. 189 00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:09.000 He is the Jack Black of dot I mean that's fair, 190 00:09:10.879 --> 00:09:12.919 all right. So what are we talking about today, Richard? 191 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:17.279 Well, I would say, let's talk about a bit about 192 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.679 modernization and code Carter. 193 00:09:21.039 --> 00:09:23.840 I would think, okay, so I called it code Charter, 194 00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:26.559 But what is code? That's what is code Carter? 195 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:31.679 Yeah, it's uh my when we named it, I asked today, 196 00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:35.080 we just wanted to have two c's, so we just 197 00:09:35.279 --> 00:09:38.399 picked a name which starts with a CNN. And then, 198 00:09:39.559 --> 00:09:42.879 as it turns out, Carter apparently is Latin and it 199 00:09:42.960 --> 00:09:46.960 means document or papyrus or something like this. Pyrus yea, 200 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:51.679 And yeah, it's just you know map, right, yeah, document 201 00:09:52.159 --> 00:09:53.279 a code map. Yeah. 202 00:09:54.639 --> 00:09:58.080 Lunking in the caves of code archaeology, you come up, yeah, 203 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:03.200 virus where somebody has attempted to describe some code. 204 00:10:03.679 --> 00:10:08.360 Yeah, and I call myself that because I do a 205 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:14.960 thing called health check software health check. And you know 206 00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:18.399 when you have an old code base and someone asks you, hey, 207 00:10:18.879 --> 00:10:20.679 this is five million lines of code. Can you figure 208 00:10:20.720 --> 00:10:24.240 out what's wrong? You immediately be like, okay, yeah, sure, 209 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:27.320 give me two years and they're like, how about three weeks. 210 00:10:27.919 --> 00:10:28.200 Nice? 211 00:10:29.039 --> 00:10:31.519 And that's where where the code carter comes in. 212 00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:34.120 Well, and I guess the question is why do they 213 00:10:34.120 --> 00:10:35.120 think anything's wrong. 214 00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:42.440 Usually someone is like, oh, hey, I wanted this feature 215 00:10:42.559 --> 00:10:45.080 like yesterday and I got it six months later. 216 00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.759 Why yeah, why is it taking a so long to 217 00:10:48.799 --> 00:10:50.879 modify code? But boy, we've heard this theme over and 218 00:10:50.919 --> 00:10:54.639 over again, right that applications build up craft and it 219 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:56.799 just gets harder and harder to make changes. 220 00:10:57.399 --> 00:10:59.879 And when you want to change something, well let's add this, 221 00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:02.480 you get packaged oh that requires this, which requires this. 222 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.840 It's kind of like tugging on a thread in your sweater, right, 223 00:11:05.919 --> 00:11:08.480 I mean, pretty soon the whole thing unravels and you're like, ah, 224 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:10.000 screw it, We're just going to rewrite it. 225 00:11:10.519 --> 00:11:15.519 Yeah. I think in science they call this the ripple effect. Yeah, 226 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:17.840 so you kind of throw a stone into the water 227 00:11:17.879 --> 00:11:20.799 and then ripples and it creates other ripples, and you know, 228 00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:24.840 it's not like one stone and then it's over, immediately 229 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:27.679 spawns new stones and they just ripple all across the 230 00:11:27.720 --> 00:11:28.200 code base. 231 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:30.879 So I know that you're a fan of ports and 232 00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:37.600 adapters and hexagonal architecture and when you do health checks 233 00:11:37.639 --> 00:11:39.240 and stuff like this. It just kind of brought to 234 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:44.039 mind that whole diagram. Do you try to when you're 235 00:11:44.039 --> 00:11:47.399 trying to modernize something, do you immediately go for that 236 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:51.399 tool this is how we're going to redo things, or 237 00:11:51.399 --> 00:11:52.960 for that pattern, I should say. 238 00:11:52.879 --> 00:11:56.720 I usually go for for mapping the code base first. Sure, 239 00:11:56.840 --> 00:12:01.960 But yeah, when I when I have so see parts 240 00:12:02.000 --> 00:12:03.799 and adapters, I love. I love the pattern, and yes, 241 00:12:03.840 --> 00:12:05.759 I use it, and I use it in legacy code. 242 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:11.200 The problem I have is I don't know where to 243 00:12:11.279 --> 00:12:15.240 start and where to apply it because the customer wants, 244 00:12:15.399 --> 00:12:17.440 you know, new features, and he doesn't want me to 245 00:12:17.480 --> 00:12:21.080 fix all the code. He wants me to fix a 246 00:12:21.120 --> 00:12:24.679 specific part because that's where the feature comes in. And 247 00:12:25.279 --> 00:12:29.759 when I know that part, yes, I usually do put 248 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:34.840 in ports, not like in a nice way, just put 249 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:38.600 in the ports. So I don't so when I write 250 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:42.480 a test, it doesn't touch the outside world. And because 251 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:47.159 that's sometimes way deep in the application, I don't like 252 00:12:47.279 --> 00:12:49.840 inject it in there. I just put in some form 253 00:12:49.879 --> 00:12:53.480 of configuration there so I can change it for my tests. 254 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:58.960 And yeah, definitely all ports of and adapters amazing, amazing 255 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:00.360 architecture style. 256 00:13:00.960 --> 00:13:01.360 Mm hmm. 257 00:13:02.519 --> 00:13:05.039 So the first step is to figure out what the 258 00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:09.360 heck is this new relic we've discovered, and how does it? 259 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:11.519 You know, what are the component parts and how do 260 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:14.519 they interact with each other? And you know, maybe we 261 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:20.720 could avoid pulling out the entire sweater with one thread 262 00:13:22.399 --> 00:13:24.679 to kill this metaphor to death. 263 00:13:25.240 --> 00:13:29.720 Yeah, And I mean that's not easy obviously, because like 264 00:13:29.759 --> 00:13:34.480 you said, you know, it's it's it's tangled, so you 265 00:13:34.600 --> 00:13:37.320 want to have it decaped. You want to be like, okay, 266 00:13:37.320 --> 00:13:40.399 I just need to change this one. But the whole 267 00:13:40.639 --> 00:13:43.639 point of why it takes so long is because, yeah, 268 00:13:43.759 --> 00:13:46.279 this one thing is tangled to that other thing over there, 269 00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:48.440 and it you know, it becomes like a like a 270 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:52.120 wacka mole game. And I think that the first step 271 00:13:52.159 --> 00:13:56.000 is always to to have some form of observable observables 272 00:13:56.120 --> 00:14:01.120 is wrong him because it's tied to operations, some overview. 273 00:14:02.759 --> 00:14:06.440 And this is where we where we put in code cutter, 274 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:10.960 because it's a very very simple idea. When you when 275 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:14.639 you have something like like sonar or or I don't know, 276 00:14:14.679 --> 00:14:17.559 independent going on or something like this that analyzes your 277 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:21.399 code base, it will it will give you metrics like 278 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:25.960 cyclomatic complexity or or code smells per file and everything, 279 00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:30.120 and it will be kind of like like your email inbox. 280 00:14:30.399 --> 00:14:34.159 It will say nine thousand issues or something. 281 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:37.360 And you will give me, give me my compiler, nine 282 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:38.480 thousand warnings. 283 00:14:39.240 --> 00:14:42.840 Yeah, and go yeah, work in coffee. 284 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.320 First, The interesting part is now, how can I how 285 00:14:46.360 --> 00:14:50.440 can I like make this viewable in some form that 286 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.200 that I can digest it and I can say, okay, 287 00:14:52.240 --> 00:14:56.279 this is the most important part. And we we we 288 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.320 stumbled more or less stumbled across a science tool that 289 00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:07.960 mapped files to buildings. And these buildings have properties three. 290 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:11.879 One is the area, meaning how big is the building, 291 00:15:12.440 --> 00:15:16.879 the height, and the color, and they just map the 292 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:20.159 whole code base one. One file is one building, and 293 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.320 then you can put different metrics on these buildings. And 294 00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:25.440 when you when you view it from the top, you 295 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:27.879 can see something like lines of code. That's a very 296 00:15:27.919 --> 00:15:32.480 typical lines of code. Well it could be, but right 297 00:15:32.480 --> 00:15:34.080 now I'm just talking about the area. 298 00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:35.000 The size. 299 00:15:35.360 --> 00:15:38.759 Okay, that would be lines of code because then you see, okay, 300 00:15:38.799 --> 00:15:40.919 it's a very large building when you when you view 301 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:43.799 it from the birdeye view. And then you can put 302 00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:47.679 psychlomatic complexity on the height. And then the more business 303 00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:52.919 logic is in the file, the higher the psychlematic complexity becomes, 304 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:55.440 the higher is actually the building. And then you have 305 00:15:55.960 --> 00:15:59.120 large and tall buildings. And now you can can tweak 306 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.120 it a bit. Now it can be like okay, where 307 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:05.000 you can you can look at GET for example, you 308 00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:10.440 can look at which file receives the most changes, and 309 00:16:10.480 --> 00:16:13.039 then you can color this building for that file. You 310 00:16:13.039 --> 00:16:15.360 can color it red and say like, okay, the thing 311 00:16:15.440 --> 00:16:17.840 that has the most changes, make it red. 312 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:20.600 And also I imagine which one is the most popular. 313 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.039 How often does it get used versus these other ones 314 00:16:24.039 --> 00:16:24.759 on the periphery? 315 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:29.039 Right yeah, yeah, right now we're we are a bit 316 00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:31.960 in in the in the static territory where it can 317 00:16:32.039 --> 00:16:35.120 just extract stuff from from from the code and extract 318 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:38.879 stuff from the from the GET history. It's a it's 319 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:42.320 a big focus in in Adam Thornhill's book, Your code 320 00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.799 is a crime scene? How can you how can you 321 00:16:44.840 --> 00:16:48.879 extract all this information it's a it's a great book. 322 00:16:50.600 --> 00:16:55.440 He builds he builds his own tool called code scene, 323 00:16:55.720 --> 00:17:00.080 which is based on the the work he did in 324 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.519 his book. Your Conde is a crime scene. Nice anyway, 325 00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:10.480 So code cut now maps all of these files to buildings, 326 00:17:10.519 --> 00:17:12.400 and then you can see like, Okay, this file is 327 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:16.119 very large, meaning lots of lines of code, it's very 328 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:19.480 high meaning lots of psychnomatic complexity, and it's very red 329 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:23.599 meaning it's changed all the time. And now you can 330 00:17:23.799 --> 00:17:27.359 start doing a dialogue because people don't realize that they're 331 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:29.720 changing this file all the time, and they don't realize 332 00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.240 how complex it is. And now you can have this 333 00:17:32.319 --> 00:17:36.319 dialogue also not only with the developers, but also with 334 00:17:37.559 --> 00:17:40.640 the stakeholders. It can be like, oh, look, we should 335 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:42.839 tackle this one. Because you change it every week or 336 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:43.599 you change. 337 00:17:43.319 --> 00:17:47.000 It to day. So by looking back through the GitHub history, 338 00:17:47.000 --> 00:17:49.839 you're seeing where the resonance is in this code, where 339 00:17:49.880 --> 00:17:52.920 everybody's working on it, where it's getting the most change. 340 00:17:53.279 --> 00:17:57.240 Yeah, but that's only only part of what I mean 341 00:17:57.279 --> 00:18:01.039 when I say map map your code. That's that's one 342 00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:04.880 one you just can You can go further. You can 343 00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:07.359 be like, okay, so let's look at the code and 344 00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:09.519 let's see which file only has one. 345 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:12.680 Author, right, and then touch code. 346 00:18:13.000 --> 00:18:15.759 Yeah, and that's a that's a knowledge silo, right, it's 347 00:18:15.799 --> 00:18:16.920 just one person who knows it. 348 00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:20.160 I mean, you know, doesn't win anymore. 349 00:18:22.359 --> 00:18:23.880 Given a vulnerability score. 350 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:25.519 Really yeah, precisely. 351 00:18:25.839 --> 00:18:27.720 And then you can then you can also be like, okay, 352 00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.920 who's still here or who's about to leave? Yeah, And 353 00:18:31.960 --> 00:18:34.720 you can be like, okay, well, okay, two people are 354 00:18:34.759 --> 00:18:36.960 about to leave, and they know the most complex part 355 00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:37.920 of my code base. 356 00:18:38.119 --> 00:18:40.160 And they're the only ones you've ever touched it. Yes, right, 357 00:18:40.160 --> 00:18:42.279 because you have all that information now, so you know 358 00:18:42.519 --> 00:18:43.839 this is what you need to focus on. 359 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:46.240 Yeah, you know, it's pretty powerful. Is they say where 360 00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:51.039 I come from? That's wicked smat. It's very new England 361 00:18:51.680 --> 00:18:52.480 wicked smat. 362 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:56.599 The The fun part is you can also do the inverse. 363 00:18:57.319 --> 00:19:01.279 You can be like, okay, so which buildings have like 364 00:19:01.599 --> 00:19:04.920 the most authors? Yeah, and which is kind of the 365 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:07.920 inverse smell because now it's no longer knowledge silo. Now 366 00:19:07.920 --> 00:19:11.599 it's probably a coordination bottleneck, right, yeah, because if you 367 00:19:11.680 --> 00:19:14.839 have like eighteen people working on the same file, yeah, 368 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:16.559 that might also be a. 369 00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:18.039 Problem for you for sure. 370 00:19:18.160 --> 00:19:22.640 Yeah, in the end, I should probably put a disclaimer here, 371 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:28.400 you you know, a good Heart's law probably which says like, 372 00:19:28.720 --> 00:19:31.279 when a metric becomes a target, it ceases to be 373 00:19:31.319 --> 00:19:32.240 a good metric. 374 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:35.880 Right, yeah, And I thought that was the comment I 375 00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:37.559 had at the beginning of the show. Right, It's like 376 00:19:37.920 --> 00:19:41.039 if you created a standalone metric and then every game 377 00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:44.359 now it's you make it into a target. Now it's useless, 378 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:46.440 it becomes weaponized. Yeah yeah. 379 00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.400 Yeah. So so when we do the health check, we're 380 00:19:49.599 --> 00:19:53.359 very clear as we want we want to help the people. 381 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:55.599 We don't want to be like, okay, you need to 382 00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:58.519 I don't know, destroy this metric, drive it to zero. 383 00:19:58.680 --> 00:19:58.759 No. 384 00:19:59.799 --> 00:20:02.240 The the way we use code kata is just as 385 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.160 the start of a conversation. We don't want to end 386 00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:07.920 the conversation. We don't to be like finger pointing everything. 387 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:10.839 We will to know where to start and then we 388 00:20:10.880 --> 00:20:12.880 can have the dialogue right, and then we can figure 389 00:20:12.920 --> 00:20:16.319 out I mean, there could be a billion reasons why 390 00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:19.200 it's not bad. You know, it looks it looks bad, 391 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:22.359 it looks red and everything. Then you get to start. 392 00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:24.559 Then you start talking to them and they're like, oh yeah, 393 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:27.599 well this one we don't really use that often. Or 394 00:20:27.759 --> 00:20:30.759 you know, it's very complex, but we don't have to 395 00:20:30.839 --> 00:20:32.440 change it at all, or something like this. 396 00:20:32.680 --> 00:20:35.759 I saw this with psychomatic complexity too, Like being complex 397 00:20:35.880 --> 00:20:40.240 isn't automatically a sin. Being unnecessarily complex is kind is 398 00:20:40.279 --> 00:20:44.160 a waste, But sometimes that complexity is essential. It's just 399 00:20:44.160 --> 00:20:46.200 a place to look. It doesn't mean it's a place 400 00:20:46.240 --> 00:20:47.160 to change. 401 00:20:47.079 --> 00:20:51.160