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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the Jay Birds Show.
Speaker 5: How you doing great to be here? Bubba Booie, Howard Stuttenhall,
Speaker 5: I'm not doing I'm not gonna bomb the show at
Speaker 5: the very beginning. Now I'm doing good man. However, you
Speaker 5: been You're one of the most busiest podcasters, so you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm really working hard to make a fake
Speaker 2: job into a real job.
Speaker 5: Yeah se.
Speaker 2: Podcasting isn't like an actual necessary part of society in
Speaker 2: any way.
Speaker 5: But you know, no, that's wrong. Podcasting is vital. Podcasting
Speaker 5: is the essence the voice of the people nowadays, even
Speaker 5: though we despise and we hate the people. But you know,
Speaker 5: it's just oh, you're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2: So but anyway, we're here to discuss something that we're
Speaker 2: actually supposed to talk about on the last episode, but
Speaker 2: then you and I got distracted and it turned into
Speaker 2: an hour long conversation about something else. Yeah, we're here
Speaker 2: to talk about what is in my mind. I'm pretty
Speaker 2: interesting underdiscussed film Phantom Threat. So, Gia, do you want
Speaker 2: to introduce it a little bit before we jump into
Speaker 2: the discussion.
Speaker 5: Sure, But before you do that, let me distract you
Speaker 5: once again by saying that was a great essay you
Speaker 5: did on James Lindsay that I read it this morning,
Speaker 5: and I don't know, like it's very you know what's funny?
Speaker 5: I think I think I know how James Lindsay got
Speaker 5: the idea that the woke greater maoists. Do you have
Speaker 5: to be an old head to know this? Okay? Okay,
Speaker 5: he got this idea because back in the Therminor Made Days.
Speaker 5: If you remember, I was I was integral p Well,
Speaker 5: I wasn't integral part I was one of the writers.
Speaker 5: We had the idea of of like the right wing
Speaker 5: has to read like Leninism, We have to read lenin Okay,
Speaker 5: that's how you win a sort of like cultural revolution
Speaker 5: and and the sort of and then and then Carl
Speaker 5: is bad. I think I don't know if he's around.
Speaker 5: Apparently he's still kicking around an alerker all but my
Speaker 5: good friend Carl's uh he also talked about this, and
Speaker 5: so I think like some wires got crossed where James
Speaker 5: Lindsay now believes that the woke right is like Maoism
Speaker 5: and Leninism, and I think this is all due to
Speaker 5: Thermoor magazine.
Speaker 2: So oh see, I think that is a much that
Speaker 2: you or you were being much too kind. I think
Speaker 2: that basically it is a much lazier thing, which is yeah,
Speaker 2: he has defined he has defined the term so that
Speaker 2: anyone he doesn't like is woke, and woke is inherently communist.
Speaker 2: So basically everyone I don't like is a communist the
Speaker 2: James Lindsay guide to discourse, and it's basically probably correct.
Speaker 5: That is probably the correct take, because I'm just I'm
Speaker 5: stretching it. I'm stretching my niche on my magazine. That
Speaker 5: was a part of way too in terms of importance
Speaker 5: of discourse. So but anyways, that yeah.
Speaker 2: So probably I probably shouldn't say this, uh, but I
Speaker 2: have not not Lindsay, but another one of the sort
Speaker 2: of anti woke right crowd coming on my podcast soon. Wow,
Speaker 2: And I'm really not sure how it's gonna go because
Speaker 2: I haven't really played my hand yet and I am
Speaker 2: genuinely interested in Uh no, no, this one's much dumber.
Speaker 2: I won't say who because it might happen, but and
Speaker 2: I was. I was pretty upfront. I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I won't have a conversation about the woke, right, that's
Speaker 2: all I say. I'm not entirely sure how that's gonna go,
Speaker 2: because the more I dug into it. And that's sort
Speaker 2: of why I wanted to do a review of one
Speaker 2: of his pieces, because I was like, all right, like
Speaker 2: I make fun of this guy enough, and I know
Speaker 2: what he says in short form, but like, let's let's
Speaker 2: give him the benefit of the doubt, Like let's dig
Speaker 2: into you know, something that should have taken him a
Speaker 2: long time to come up with write a long This
Speaker 2: should be him at his best. I was not impressed.
Speaker 2: But enough about Lindsay, because look, man, if you want
Speaker 2: to get me distracted, that is a way to get
Speaker 2: me distracted.
Speaker 5: Yeah, OK, you're pro wrestling with me.
Speaker 2: So anyways, Yeah, so we're here to talk about the
Speaker 2: twenty seventeen film by Paul Thomas Anderson Phantom Thread. So
Speaker 2: I'll be honest, I was not super excited initially, Like
Speaker 2: I did not think this is a movie that I
Speaker 2: would like because it's look, it's a movie about a
Speaker 2: fashion designer, like that sounds pretty dumb if I'm to
Speaker 2: be brutally honest, but is really fascinating so effectively, just
Speaker 2: in broad Strokes, this movie is sort of a drama
Speaker 2: concerning the relationship between fashion designer Reynolds Woodcock Cyreal, his sister,
Speaker 2: and then Alma sort of the main character, a woman
Speaker 2: who he ends up falling in love with. Broad Strokes,
Speaker 2: this movie has a very fascinating discussion about the relationship
Speaker 2: between genius and a muse, and then also the kind
Speaker 2: of different ways in which femininity encounters and sort of
Speaker 2: breaks down masculine genius. I think there are multiple ways
Speaker 2: to look at it, none of which I think were
Speaker 2: exactly what the director was necessarily desiring to come to express.
Speaker 2: And then maybe we can get into this later Geoe.
Speaker 2: But I think there's a fascinating sort of like alternate
Speaker 2: reading as well, which is definitely not what the or
Speaker 2: the movie is trying to talk about, but is worth discussing.
Speaker 2: Maybe later, Well, I.
Speaker 5: Think that you said about female the sort of female
Speaker 5: energy hobbling in a weird way, the genius of the masculine.
Speaker 5: I can see it somewhat, but I see more of
Speaker 5: a reciprocal relationship there. I know we're getting ahead of bat.
Speaker 5: We'll explain. I think that me being like a land
Speaker 5: SHARKI and malest on the right, I think that there
Speaker 5: is a powerful phonic relationship there that is destructive. I
Speaker 5: will grant you it is destructive, but it's also sustaining
Speaker 5: if you But we can haggle over the ending of
Speaker 5: the film. So spoiler alerts, we're gonna get into a
Speaker 5: lot of spoiler alerts. But uh oh yeah, I didn't
Speaker 5: think that adds jail before I do my bit, so.
Speaker 8: Oh not at all.
Speaker 2: So in sort of the beginning of the movie, we're
Speaker 2: introduced to Reynolds. He his sister is his business partner
Speaker 2: at this extremely successful fashion house that you know, provides
Speaker 2: you know, addresses to the rich and famous.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is an actual house, by the way. It's like,
Speaker 5: this is the old school style of fashion design.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, And we see him, you know, when the
Speaker 2: initial kind of start of the movie with a woman
Speaker 2: who's sort of his muse and he's sick and tired
Speaker 2: of her.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He basically you know, ends the relationship and so to
Speaker 2: clear his head, you know, after this traumatic uh you know, breakup,
Speaker 2: and we see him throughout it being very much disturbed
Speaker 2: by in a social conflict, right, he cannot create under
Speaker 2: these circumstances. So he goes to the country and in
Speaker 2: a diner he meets this girl, Alma. He sort of
Speaker 2: falls in love with her, although what's interesting is that
Speaker 2: it seems that he falls in love with her more
Speaker 2: as a muse than as a romantic partner. Yeah, their
Speaker 2: relationship kind of you know Burgeons, there's you know, ultimately
Speaker 2: their relationship falls apart. But what's interesting is that their
Speaker 2: relationship is sort of saved by his sickness. He gets
Speaker 2: very very ill, and to sort of continue this process,
Speaker 2: we find out that she is she's poisoning him. This
Speaker 2: is much basically, yeah, it's Munchausen by proxy, so that
Speaker 2: he can sort of reduce him to an infantile level.
Speaker 2: They can bond. Because there's also a very bizarre relationship
Speaker 2: between our main character and his mother. We'll get into
Speaker 2: that later. And then apparently as the movie ends they
Speaker 2: have a happy domestic life and his creative work suffers.
Speaker 2: So big picture, I think that they're sort of fascinating.
Speaker 2: Three motifs, three distinct female motifs. There is Alma, right,
Speaker 2: who is a romantic relationship with Reynolds, obviously a very
Speaker 2: dysfunctional one. There's Cyril, his sister, who has sort of
Speaker 2: a business yet still feminine relationship. And then also his mother,
Speaker 2: who both teaches him how to so teach him how
Speaker 2: to create, and then after she dies sort of recurrently
Speaker 2: appears in his dreams talking to him. So those are
Speaker 2: the three primary female archetypes. But I'll throw it to you, Geo.
Speaker 5: No, that's great. That's a great setup because you have
Speaker 5: a very powerful feminine influence in all three of them.
Speaker 5: It's very similar to what me and a friend. I
Speaker 5: don't know if I could still mention his name, because
Speaker 5: you've gotten the trouble. Recently, we were talking about the
Speaker 5: films of Vincent Gallo and no, sorry I was talking
Speaker 5: about with him, but I was also talking about with
Speaker 5: my Frank Tino Corner his theory on Vincent Gallows the
Speaker 5: Brown Bunny, how each female he encounters is a Youngian
Speaker 5: archetypal mother maiden crone iteration of Chloe Savini's character. If
Speaker 5: you've ever watched The Brown Bunny, it's very similar here.
Speaker 5: There is a maiden mother crone distinction that the feminine
Speaker 5: serves as the unconscious shadow self, the anima of Reynolds.
Speaker 5: So this isn't the I believe the nineteen fifties this
Speaker 5: is when fashion was starting to change and where you had,
Speaker 5: like still you have like a lot of very high
Speaker 5: key designers that were doing a lot of private commissions
Speaker 5: for very rich and famous people, very rich and powerful
Speaker 5: women such as this one. I think the one he
Speaker 5: designs a wedding dress for is the Princess of Belgium
Speaker 5: or something like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think it's the Belgian princess.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And which is interesting enough, isn't it implied because it's
Speaker 2: never directly stated. But Alma is not British.
Speaker 5: It is Belgian.
Speaker 9: Oh I thought it was.
Speaker 2: She could have been Belgian, but yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think because she has sort of a French accent.
Speaker 2: I guess I don't know anyway, I don't know anything
Speaker 2: about Europe. Sorry.
Speaker 5: Well he he initially is drawn to her because the
Speaker 5: actual actress what's her name, Kramps, who I believe was
Speaker 5: in a lot of other Paul Thomas Anderson films because
Speaker 5: a lot of directors, they'll recycle different actors and actresses.
Speaker 5: I mean, well, of course you know there will be blood. Right,
Speaker 5: was that that was Paul Thomas Anderson?
Speaker 10: Right?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 2: Oh, shoot, I should know this. I don't know anything
Speaker 2: about film.
Speaker 5: I believe that was also Pta. Yeah, uh with with
Speaker 5: with Danio day Lewis. Right, so Dania day Lewis, he's
Speaker 5: playing this fast?
Speaker 2: It was it was Pta?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, so Dana day Lewis, he's this old school
Speaker 5: fashion designer. Of course, fashion is changing to more mainstream
Speaker 5: brands that are accessible. There is this sort of leveling
Speaker 5: of high fashion where people that are in the petty
Speaker 5: bourgeoisie or in like the sort of upper middle classes
Speaker 5: can afford different dresses by designers nowadays. We know this.
Speaker 5: I mean you have to be like, very very rich
Speaker 5: and famous to have a personal designer nowadays. Right, So
Speaker 5: this is still where fashion, this area of making serviceable
Speaker 5: dresses for special events. It wasn't exactly the runway fashion
Speaker 5: that's very highly adjacent to the art world. And so
Speaker 5: you have this designer who's sort of a dinosaur, and
Speaker 5: he's on his way out, and it's implied that a
Speaker 5: lot of his clients are going to more of these affordable,
Speaker 5: mainstream fashion designer houses or that are rather factories, like
Speaker 5: Champaul Gautier for example.
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Speaker 5: And you have the house designer with the name He
Speaker 5: lives in this mansion that's of course paid for by
Speaker 5: a very successful patron old woman that he tries to
Speaker 5: make look beautiful. And he has an army of seamstresses.
Speaker 5: And I know this because my great grandmother was actually
Speaker 5: in the It was a seamstress and all that. So
Speaker 5: he has an army of seamstresses that handmake everything, and
Speaker 5: he personally sows the label of the house behind the
Speaker 5: dress of the Woodcock House. And as it progresses through
Speaker 5: the film, he's at his wits end with his one muse.
Speaker 5: Then he discovers the what's her name in the film
Speaker 5: the Crimps woman?
Speaker 2: Her name is Alma, Oh.
Speaker 5: Yeah, olmah. So then Olma has these broad shoulders, is tall,
Speaker 5: it's skinny, basically perfect runway model, fashion designer, like you know,
Speaker 5: fashion easter, right, But she's like she's working in this
Speaker 5: restaurant where she's a waitress. And immediately, like literally from
Speaker 5: their first encounter, she goes right to in fanalizing him
Speaker 5: in a weird way. And see she he orders this
Speaker 5: huge meal and he she writes him a note of
Speaker 5: her phone number in address saying for the hungry boy. Right,
Speaker 5: so you know what this is going to be about,
Speaker 5: even though he's way older than her. So then as
Speaker 5: the film goes on, she works in the house. I
Speaker 5: believe she has some connection to the to being a
Speaker 5: seamstress and all that. And you have to realize that
Speaker 5: when you are someone who is an artist. Those like
Speaker 5: little moments of creativity. They can come few and far
Speaker 5: between and when ordinary life disrupts them. This is what
Speaker 5: I found so fascinating about the film is that Daniel
Speaker 5: de Lewis played a very good creative in the sense
Speaker 5: that he's very petty and cantankerous, and he needs a
Speaker 5: silence and he needs that sort of on the one
Speaker 5: end of very reassuring and structured home life, but not
Speaker 5: one that can disrupt his flow. And so this translates
Speaker 5: to him being very like crotchety and insulting and petty,
Speaker 5: and and it's it reminds me of something I heard
Speaker 5: from a documentary on the famous comic artist Mobius. You
Speaker 5: know Mobius, right Jay? Uh? He yeah, yeah he Also
Speaker 5: this is uh he got famous because I believe was
Speaker 5: it Marvel that brought him on to do a Batman
Speaker 5: or a Superman Sorry, a Spider Man was a Marvel
Speaker 5: or DC that does Spider Man? I forget, which I
Speaker 5: thought was very interesting. But Mobius is very famous in
Speaker 5: his own right for his own series and it grew
Speaker 5: one of the best avant garde comic book artists ever. Right,
Speaker 5: his penmanship is incredible. There's this documentary that was made
Speaker 5: a few years before he died, talking about his relationship
Speaker 5: to his wife in one section where he said that,
Speaker 5: you know, it's very funny because a lot of comic artists,
Speaker 5: a lot of artists in general, it's almost like the
Speaker 5: wife becomes this mother figure where they're doing the taxes,
Speaker 5: they're organizing the meetings because the artists can like have
Speaker 5: time to play with his little colors and his pens.
Speaker 5: It's very much like a sort of consuming mother type
Speaker 5: of relationship.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 2: Oh, and that's exactly the archetype I wanted to bring up, right,
Speaker 2: be all consuming mother, because she does become that, right.
Speaker 2: She is literally later in the film poisoning him. It
Speaker 2: almost kills him right to keep him hers right, to
Speaker 2: keep him attached to her.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, And so she they have this like very relationship.
Speaker 5: And notice how one thing, I'll say, skipping ahead of
Speaker 5: the film, she has this vision of having a child
Speaker 5: with him and living a very like, you know, bougie
Speaker 5: type of existence. But throughout the film there's not a
Speaker 5: lot of physical contact between them. There's not a lot
Speaker 5: of implications of sex or anything like that. It very
Speaker 5: much is a standoffish muse type of relationship where to
Speaker 5: lower it to the level of being fleshy and visceral
Speaker 5: and vulgar that would have a profound impact on the
Speaker 5: relationship as a whole. So Woodcock wants to keep her
Speaker 5: at a distance. But when it comes to sort of
Speaker 5: like the more masculinized version of the feminine in the film,
Speaker 5: it's obviously his sister. His sister is his business partner.
Speaker 5: She's the one organizing all of these very high end
Speaker 5: commissions with like royalty and famous people and so on and
Speaker 5: so forth. She's the one that he confides in as
Speaker 5: an old I believe she's the older sister, and so
Speaker 5: she took the role of her mother in nurturing his talent,
Speaker 5: but doing it in a very strictly strict and regimental way,
Speaker 5: whereas Olmah's character is sort of the you know, the
Speaker 5: chaotic feminine. She's the agent of disorder because she has
Speaker 5: a lot of other needs that are not there as
Speaker 5: a sister. Right, So they have kind of like I
Speaker 5: wouldn't want to say that would the two like Woodcock siblings.
Speaker 5: I don'tudn't see that there's an incestuous relationship there. It's
Speaker 5: more of like she is the manager. She takes on
Speaker 5: a masculine role, whereas he's dwelling in something that is
Speaker 5: very feminine, which is the act of creativity in a
Speaker 5: very which has historically been a very feminine pursuit. Although
Speaker 5: a lot of the greatest fashion designers of history have
Speaker 5: been met and not necessarily gay men either, I mean
Speaker 5: a lot of them were straight, right, I know, like
Speaker 5: there is there is this one very famous model who
Speaker 5: wrote about actually the relationship between homosexual men and women
Speaker 5: in the fashion world that's in the fifties is very
Speaker 5: red pilly. But anyways, so you know, a lot of
Speaker 5: the great designers are men and so, but they're taking
Speaker 5: on the embodiment of what has been pigeonholed as a
Speaker 5: characteristically feminine form of art, right, although it shouldn't be.
Speaker 5: It shouldn't be. So he's he's going into this relationship
Speaker 5: with his own creativity. He's meeting this new woman and
Speaker 5: then all of a sudden there is this disequilibrium he
Speaker 5: finds with her in the house with the old man
Speaker 5: in the house, and there's this one scene where he's
Speaker 5: confiding in his sister after he's trying to create a
Speaker 5: dress for this very rich but very old woman. He's
Speaker 5: having a hard time, you know, of all the different
Speaker 5: scenes and everything, and he confides to his sister, I
Speaker 5: can't have her in house. I can't work, I can't
Speaker 5: do anything. She's ruining my life, you know, like typical
Speaker 5: like he's an old man, but it's like a teen
Speaker 5: angst type of thing, right like, And of course, what happens,
Speaker 5: the stereotypical movie thing. She walks in the room mid
Speaker 5: mid rant, and now she knows what he really feels
Speaker 5: about her, and so what does she do? She goes
Speaker 5: in scavengers for mushrooms in the forest, finds the poisonous
Speaker 5: ones and then feeds it to him, and he's like
Speaker 5: terribly sick. And now she goes from the intoxicating, chaotic
Speaker 5: maiden to the feminine motherly figure nursing him to health.
Speaker 5: Because what happens. He's trying to model for this, this
Speaker 5: wedding dress for this princess, and wedding dresses are very
Speaker 5: important this film. We'll get to that Jake. So he's
Speaker 5: trying to model for that. He's trying to construct this
Speaker 5: wedding dress. He only has a day left to send
Speaker 5: it off to Belgium. What happens. He collapses right on
Speaker 5: it ruins the dress, and so his seamstresses and his
Speaker 5: sister and his now girlfriend has to work the whole
Speaker 5: night to repair this dress. And well, sorry, they work
Speaker 5: the whole night. And well, Uma is nursing him like
Speaker 5: a mother nursing a sick child, very very similar to
Speaker 5: an Edward Monk painting. That's the first thing that came
Speaker 5: to mind, nursing him back to health. Uh. And and
Speaker 5: he's terribly still like he's delusional and crotchety and cantankerous,
Speaker 5: and he wore he tells the doctor to go f himself.
Speaker 5: And it's just in a weird way. It's it's very
Speaker 5: crazy and insane, but it's also beautiful. It's it's a
Speaker 5: very like I wouldn't want to say like it's it's
Speaker 5: like a fem clled fantasy or whatever, but there very
Speaker 5: much is like a very strong feminine fantasy. If I
Speaker 5: can fix this genius who is a creative genius, but
Speaker 5: he's he's like a lion, he's like a blonde beast.
Speaker 5: He plays by his own rules, and he's this almost
Speaker 5: like a Heathcliff character. He's a force of nature, right,
Speaker 5: But I'm going to tame him, and I'm going to
Speaker 5: break him down and nurse him back up. And so
Speaker 5: there's this very powerful feminine fantasy of engaging with a
Speaker 5: male artist of any stripe. And so in a lot
Speaker 5: of ways, it's a very beautiful film, but it's a
Speaker 5: very destructive film. And then eventually he gets better and
Speaker 5: that's when he's that's when she's talling. I believe she's
Speaker 5: a saying all of this in the film. There's it's
Speaker 5: interspliced with her her monologuing to a therapist or another
Speaker 5: guy or whatever, and it's a very beautiful thing where
Speaker 5: she's like, he's his most calm, he's his most loving,
Speaker 5: he's his most serene when he's on this like basically
Speaker 5: the cusp of death. And so the relationship between the
Speaker 5: feminine and death is very powerful in this film, because
Speaker 5: of course his mother died when he's young. His mother
Speaker 5: that he had, she had this beautiful wedding dress, and
Speaker 5: there's this one piece of dialogue between them where he's
Speaker 5: saying that, you know, it's very hard to do wedding
Speaker 5: dresses because a lot of models have a lot of
Speaker 5: superstitions around wearing wedding dresses where they say that if
Speaker 5: a model wears a wedding dress on a runway that
Speaker 5: they're never going to get married, or they're going to
Speaker 5: marry the wrong guy, or it's going to characterize their
Speaker 5: life and the romantic relationship in some way. And so
Speaker 5: he goes a it's very like a notoriously difficult to
Speaker 5: do a good wedding dress, right, but he's obsessed with
Speaker 5: the same design of his mother's wedding dress that then
Speaker 5: gets lost through time or moving or whatever. And now
Speaker 5: in the film he models this wedding dress off of
Speaker 5: UMA's character. He has this very rare I think it
Speaker 5: was Italian lace that survived through the war. You know,
Speaker 5: this is the nineteen fifties, so used to World War Two,
Speaker 5: and he like throws it on her carelessly. He's putting
Speaker 5: needles and pins everywhere, and he's sort of like trying to.
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Speaker 5: The twelve days of Christmas.
Speaker 8: Eurospa had for me twelve Christmas eleven cakes are baking,
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Speaker 11: Fine, you're super easy, supermarket.
Speaker 5: Like mold her in a way, But she resists that
Speaker 5: out of all of the muses he's had, that he's
Speaker 5: burned through like light bulbs, you put one in, you
Speaker 5: replace them, right, she's the only one that had this
Speaker 5: sort of phonic feminine power to resist his imposing masculine creativity.
Speaker 5: And how does she do it? She literally physically breaks
Speaker 5: him down to the level of a child in his
Speaker 5: sickness to do this, and he she does this repeatedly,
Speaker 5: and near the end of the film it's implied that
Speaker 5: he's fine with it. He takes the mushroom. He knows
Speaker 5: he's getting poisoned, but he does it anyways. And it's
Speaker 5: a very it's a very like weird relationship, but within
Speaker 5: the confines of that very creative lifestyle, you can understand
Speaker 5: in a weird way. And so I thought it was
Speaker 5: a very beautiful film, and it really has that the
Speaker 5: interplay between the masculine and feminine within a creative endeavor.
Speaker 5: And she then has this vision of having a child
Speaker 5: with him, and it's it is implied that they eventually
Speaker 5: do have sex and he she like totally just like
Speaker 5: breaks him down and builds him back up. And it's
Speaker 5: it's a way in which the feminine can impose upon
Speaker 5: this feral, chaotic force of nature that is male creativity
Speaker 5: in the artist. And if you look throughout a lot
Speaker 5: of human history, a lot of artists had this relationship
Speaker 5: and even when there wasn't, like if you have artists
Speaker 5: such as I mentioned Edward monk Ortulli's the track where
Speaker 5: they have a very like chaotic and destructive relationship to women,
Speaker 5: and they're like, you know, frequenting ladies of the night
Speaker 5: and all this stuff there still is. Ah, there was
Speaker 5: something that Robert Hughes, the great art critics, said a monk.
Speaker 5: He said to Edward Monk's sex is ominous and hateful.
Speaker 5: As a man, you either live in the humiliation of celibacy,
Speaker 5: being an insul or you subject yourself to the castration
Speaker 5: of the feminine. And it was like this very the
Speaker 5: polarity of the masculine energy being subsumed by the feminine.
Speaker 5: And of course Edvardmunk was into the early Scaninavian vitalist
Speaker 5: movement where it's like a bunch of men, you know,
Speaker 5: bathing naked and the sun, very sole broad ish type
Speaker 5: of stuff. But that they were doing where they were
Speaker 5: like the male if you look at the male bather painters, sorry,
Speaker 5: if you look at the male bathing paintings of Edvard Munk,
Speaker 5: you know what I mean. Where they had this like
Speaker 5: Germanic and Scandinavian health movement where a lot of men
Speaker 5: would prance naked on the beach and these like nudist beaches,
Speaker 5: and they do their exercises in the nude, and it
Speaker 5: was about this like solar vitality type of stuff, you know,
Speaker 5: very very like not feminine. But at the same time,
Speaker 5: Edward Munk had this incredible relationship to the feminine that yeah,
Speaker 5: was very I guess the modern you know, twenty ten's
Speaker 5: lingo would be toxic and chaotic and whatnot. But here
Speaker 5: you see with Woodcock in the film an equally destructive
Speaker 5: and toxic but yet beautiful and in some ways endearing
Speaker 5: relationship to the feminine. And so uh yeah, that's that's
Speaker 5: that's my little rantom the film.
Speaker 2: So yeah, so what do you make of because their
Speaker 2: relationship sort of has a two distinct crises, right there
Speaker 2: is the you know, the first one, which punctuates in
Speaker 2: her poisoning him first, and then they get married and
Speaker 2: pretty quickly the relationship goes sour and sort of culminates
Speaker 2: on New Year's yes, where you know, she gets invited
Speaker 2: out by you know, to go dancing with this doctor.
Speaker 2: She ends up going to this like horrible like gaudy,
Speaker 2: uh you know, New Year's celebration, and he comes to
Speaker 2: get her sort of rebukes her, which I think is
Speaker 2: an interesting element there. Multiple things. One obviously, you know,
Speaker 2: the reaction of the kind of the aesthetic or the
Speaker 2: artist to kind of like mass market celebration.
Speaker 5: Is just it was also very americanized as well. There
Speaker 5: was a lot of American themes in this New Years party, right.
Speaker 2: But I think it's interesting interesting as well, right that
Speaker 2: the element of you know, she acts out to force
Speaker 2: him to correct her. Yeah, she's almost kind of giving
Speaker 2: him some giant test to be no, I won't you
Speaker 2: would come and get legitimately like that's.
Speaker 5: What happened to Yeah, yeah, no, it is. Yeah, it's
Speaker 5: very like Patris O'Neil ask like when you talked about like,
Speaker 5: you know, Patrisa O'Neil for being like this, you know,
Speaker 5: a fellow fat guy. You had a very you know,
Speaker 5: attractive wife that he would talk about. You know, she'd
Speaker 5: be like, you know, you give her a little, you know,
Speaker 5: but they take, they keep taking. You got to stop it,
Speaker 5: you say, no, you got to stop you know, like
Speaker 5: you remember those classic Patrisa o' neil interviews. Right, yeah,
Speaker 5: you know, Now, not that I endorse, you know, I'm
Speaker 5: you know, I'm not about the whole like anti women stuff,
Speaker 5: but like there is a lot obviously like a lot
Speaker 5: of truth there. There's obviously a lot of truth there,
Speaker 5: like she's goading him and testing him, and it's just
Speaker 5: a simple fact of human nature, you know what I mean,
Speaker 5: between men and women. And there's this sort of like
Speaker 5: and it's very funny how there's a little subtle hints
Speaker 5: of the changing times because this is in Europe, but
Speaker 5: there's like this very like American esque and gaudy Years party,
Speaker 5: and so there's sort of like a commentary on the
Speaker 5: vulgarity of the culture that is coming down the pipe
Speaker 5: in this time after the war, and he's sort of
Speaker 5: trying to find a way in this new culture, this
Speaker 5: new mass produced culture, as a niche boutique fashion designer.
Speaker 5: And so yeah, then it's also with noting by the
Speaker 5: way that for years he resisted, I believe Daniel day
Speaker 5: Lewis is like he's supposed to be in his fifties
Speaker 5: in this film. For years he resisted actually getting married
Speaker 5: because he assumed that if he was going to be married,
Speaker 5: then he would view every wedding dress he made filtered
Speaker 5: through his own relationship to his wife. And so the
Speaker 5: fact that he was broken down to submit to bourgeois
Speaker 5: domesticated marriage is a very you know, that's a very
Speaker 5: important plot point that they would get married and that
Speaker 5: he you know, he essentially he does pass the test
Speaker 5: because he grabs her and wrestles her away from this
Speaker 5: this terrible New Year's party of gallantry and drunken festivity.
Speaker 5: And so well, what did you think of that part
Speaker 5: burn you mentioned about the shit testing, What did you think?
Speaker 2: It's it's really well shot, like it's it's a visually
Speaker 2: interesting movie, and I think it's it's interesting because we
Speaker 2: see this this sort of social tension throughout the movie,
Speaker 2: where we see both a social tension between you know,
Speaker 2: our character Reynolds and those around him, because, as you've
Speaker 2: said that, the times are sort of changing, and you know,
Speaker 2: he has this sort of uncomfortable relationship with this older,
Speaker 2: unattractive woman who is sort of nuvo rish right, very
Speaker 2: very wealthy, but very very classless. Yes, and he has
Speaker 2: made I think, like an absurd number of wedding dresses
Speaker 2: for her over and over and over again. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: he can sort of summon the magic to make her
Speaker 2: young and beautiful again.
Speaker 5: As as an artist, you create your teeth because she's
Speaker 5: paying you, so.
Speaker 2: Well, she's paying. And also, you know, he he feels
Speaker 2: as if he is lowering himself because you know, she
Speaker 2: is not only physically unattractive, so he is sort of
Speaker 2: contorting his craft to meet this you know, unworth vessel.
Speaker 2: But also he is forced to, finally, after resisting over
Speaker 2: and over again, attend her wedding. He never wanted to go,
Speaker 2: and he goes with Alma, and part of the reason
Speaker 2: why it never explicitly stated is he doesn't want to
Speaker 2: see her embarrassing herself in his dress. Yeah, and there's
Speaker 2: this moment at the wedding, and I think that there's
Speaker 2: there is a tension between the two party. So I
Speaker 2: guess three technically party scenes between the beginning and the end,
Speaker 2: because in this one, they together, he and Alma are
Speaker 2: unified in going to retrieve his dress. This woman has a.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: This woman has gotten horribly drunk embarrassed herself at her
Speaker 2: own wedding. He basically says, like, we're going in to
Speaker 2: get the dress right now. I don't care, like we're
Speaker 2: going to save my art from this. And you know,
Speaker 2: he kind of torpedoes that relationship. And so that is
Speaker 2: one way in which social class plays into this but
Speaker 2: also later kind of in between the first and second
Speaker 2: poisonings when they are married. Now we see this tension
Speaker 2: where you know, he is, you know, sort of rankling
Speaker 2: at the relationship. He's not happy, he feels as if
Speaker 2: he's been sort of, you know, tricked into something.
Speaker 5: He tells her that maybe you have no taste at all,
Speaker 5: you know, in that Daniel day Lewis dep was that
Speaker 5: was like, really, that was so cunning. You know, maybe
Speaker 5: you have no taste at all.
Speaker 2: There's a moment and I'm not entirely sure of the
Speaker 2: social connotation of this, just because I'm not really up
Speaker 2: on mid twentieth century European like party game practice, but
Speaker 2: there's sort of the setup where it looks like there
Speaker 2: it's kind of like a speed dating setup and they're
Speaker 2: playing i think backgammon or something. So basically it's a
Speaker 2: round robin, you know, you move from one to the other,
Speaker 2: and so we have back to back, you know, a
Speaker 2: conversation between him and his wife, which is very icy,
Speaker 2: and then him and this other woman, one of his clients,
Speaker 2: and it seems as if she is sort of this
Speaker 2: other woman trying to muscle to steal him away from her.
Speaker 2: Maybe who knows, but very clearly there is this class
Speaker 2: dynamic where she views Alma as being lower or under class.
Speaker 2: And that comes back around when we talk about, you know,
Speaker 2: this sort of wild bacchan alien celebration, because we see
Speaker 2: the doctor who she's not quite it's never implied they're
Speaker 2: having a fair but she is flirting with and.
Speaker 5: She has with him, she has eyes.
Speaker 2: Yes, that again, right, we see a lowering where that
Speaker 2: same sort of process of process of you know, like
Speaker 2: massification or social leveling that has occurred in the fashion
Speaker 2: worlds occurring here because it is not only just kind
Speaker 2: of the average hoy POLOI, but it is this doctor, right,
Speaker 2: some of his high class friends are now descending like
Speaker 2: to that level, and so when he comes toget her,
Speaker 2: it's this really striking scene. And yeah, there's a certain
Speaker 2: element of this which is the like the shit test, right,
Speaker 2: like no, I won't let you do this. But on
Speaker 2: another level, I think as well, it is like no
Speaker 2: I will like you, you are not allowed to. You
Speaker 2: will you are a representation of me, and you will
Speaker 2: conduct yourself as such, which I think is interesting because
Speaker 2: that is another dynamic as well, the degree to which
Speaker 2: the product of their work as both of them. You know,
Speaker 2: it is her wearing his art. And I think that
Speaker 2: that's an interesting development as well, that they it goes
Speaker 2: from being this kind of revolving cast of him and
Speaker 2: whichever muse to his one muse right, the person he
Speaker 2: is linked to. And I think that that's an interesting
Speaker 2: development as well, because before they're both going to retrieve
Speaker 2: his art, yeah, whereas here he's basically saying like, no,
Speaker 2: you are a part of me and you are not
Speaker 2: allowed to do that. I don't know, you see on
Speaker 2: getting at their geo.
Speaker 5: Well, no, it was. Yeah, it was a great scene
Speaker 5: because like they match each other's freak in that moment,
Speaker 5: you know, like they like that's that was a great
Speaker 5: moment because now she fully is invested in each other
Speaker 5: as an entity, even though he is the creative. I
Speaker 5: remember one time, I don't know if I should say this.
Speaker 5: I probably shouldn't say this to quote the famous geoism,
Speaker 5: I probably shouldn't say this, But there was this the
Speaker 5: guy to be fair that the writer's he's a good
Speaker 5: guy and I might interview him one day. But there
Speaker 5: was this magazine once that wrote about my artwork in
Speaker 5: relation to my friends Fenn and Matthew Stout and he
Speaker 5: said something. It was like it wasn't meant as like
Speaker 5: maybe it was meant as a job, but he said
Speaker 5: that like a lot of my landscapes are sort of
Speaker 5: like in the British context, there's sort of like a
Speaker 5: seaside seasider art, you know what these like seaside resorts
Speaker 5: in the UK, and like they have landscape painters Plannar
Speaker 5: painters there right, And you know, I don't really take
Speaker 5: any offense to it because I do quite a bit
Speaker 5: of Plannier landscape painting, and you know, I mean if
Speaker 5: they're pleasant or whatever. But I remember my girlfri read
Speaker 5: this and she freaked. She like, absolutely, this is terrible.
Speaker 5: I can't believe that he would say something thing about you.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, oh my god, Like I wasn't even
Speaker 5: that offended, you know what I mean.
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Speaker 5: So I totally got that moment. That was a great
Speaker 5: moment in the film, right, But I think that in
Speaker 5: terms of a greater socio political context or a greater
Speaker 5: cultural context, the one woman that is a client of
Speaker 5: his was chastising his wife because of course he's not British.
Speaker 5: But then of course, you know, the whole bacchanalia of
Speaker 5: the Nearest Festival is this like American theme. I believe
Speaker 5: they even had the Confederate flag in Abraham Lincoln in
Speaker 5: this unstilts type of deal, you know, which to the
Speaker 5: British ruling class at the time was very like vulgar
Speaker 5: and New World and not very couth, right, But when
Speaker 5: it comes to the enclosing of that social system, the
Speaker 5: sort of like British higher class. I mean, obviously, you
Speaker 5: know they won the war against the Germans, but did
Speaker 5: they really win the war against America? You know what
Speaker 5: I mean? Like, you know, the America Kin's basically ruled
Speaker 5: the world after that point, you know, because of well
Speaker 5: we all know what happened, right, So I thought, like
Speaker 5: Paul Thomas Anderson, in a very slight, minuscule way, was
Speaker 5: nodding to I would say, a more mature aspect of
Speaker 5: that greater sociocultural commentary than this recent abomination that he
Speaker 5: did with the Thomas Pinkton short story what's it called?
Speaker 5: One soy after another, one battle after another, one battle
Speaker 5: after another, the recent Paul Thomas Anderson film. But in
Speaker 5: that film, it's a very good commentary on the situation
Speaker 5: in a weird way, right, Like these people they still
Speaker 5: maintain their class distinction, their class consciousness, but that class
Speaker 5: consciousness has suffered a great deal of you know, a
Speaker 5: great blow to their sort of global legitimacy. Right, And
Speaker 5: so it comes off as kind of pernicious to make
Speaker 5: that comment that, well, you know, she's not British. I
Speaker 5: don't know what they do in her with her people
Speaker 5: in Belgium or Germany wherever Uma is from. And it's
Speaker 5: a very like, you know, these people are kind of
Speaker 5: on the losing end of things, the way that Woodcock
Speaker 5: himself is on the losing end of a larger, more
Speaker 5: mass produced, more American driven fashion industry that now is
Speaker 5: coming from New York rather than coming from London or Paris.
Speaker 5: So it's sort of like the art world in general,
Speaker 5: that huge change after the war from Paris and you know,
Speaker 5: from Paris, Italy, the UK, especially from Paris to New
Speaker 5: York City. It's it's the same trend over and over
Speaker 5: again at this time. And but that's like, you know
Speaker 5: that that was like a side of the film when
Speaker 5: it comes to the ratio between them, Like as you
Speaker 5: pointed out, there is always she's trying to wrestle him
Speaker 5: away from what did make him a great in it's
Speaker 5: not necessarily that she wants to destroy his creativity, she
Speaker 5: wants to domesticate him. It's just like that that is
Speaker 5: an element of nature that in a lot of ways
Speaker 5: is necessary because it is true what people say, Like
Speaker 5: you know a lot of people men and women that
Speaker 5: are sort of bachelors or whatever later on in life,
Speaker 5: they they're sort of cement I know a lot of
Speaker 5: older men like this, by the way, you never got
Speaker 5: married or whatever. They're cemented in their ways, and they
Speaker 5: can become quite quite ornery in their disposition towards anything
Speaker 5: that smacks of like bourgeois domesticity. And so it's a
Speaker 5: very interesting tension there, right and throughout the film the
Speaker 5: fact that a lot of those tender moments comes at
Speaker 5: the behest of a great physical illness, and it's very
Speaker 5: cathartic in a way. And so but anyways, I've rambled
Speaker 5: for I've rambled for her to yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh no, not at all. Men, what would you make
Speaker 2: of And this is not a reading that I think
Speaker 2: is super supported by the text. But just when I
Speaker 2: was sort of throwing around with some friends, what do
Speaker 2: you think about the reading that this is a narrative
Speaker 2: exclusively filtered through Alma talking to a third party and
Speaker 2: she's trying to romanticize her role in this.
Speaker 5: That's a good interpretation. I mean, sensibly it is about that,
Speaker 5: because throughout, like I said, throughout the film, it's placed
Speaker 5: with these narratives where she's speeling to this therapist or
Speaker 5: this other male figure about her relationship and she's by
Speaker 5: a fireside and she's gussing up a lot of these details,
Speaker 5: and she is creating this like very very powerful psychodrama
Speaker 5: in your head, and it is very like through her
Speaker 5: gaze in a weird way the film. But what did
Speaker 5: you think of that though, Like, what would your interpretation be?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, I think that that's an interesting thing,
Speaker 2: that there is a there's a And I hate the
Speaker 2: term unreliable narrator because it's most often used in a
Speaker 2: very reddit context, But I think that there is a
Speaker 2: a dissonance between what actually happened in the film, like
Speaker 2: not what we're shown, what the events is they were
Speaker 2: actually supposed to have happened, and what we are seeing
Speaker 2: because she is interpreting everything in a highly romanticized, idealized
Speaker 2: version where her actions are redeemed after the fact. So
Speaker 2: for instance, like the scene where he voluntarily takes the
Speaker 2: un poison or the poison again, where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: well did that really happen? Or is that her romanticizing
Speaker 2: this sort of munchhaus in by proxy right, saying that oh,
Speaker 2: you know, he really wants this, which, again that sort
Speaker 2: of infantilization from the very beginning throughout the end. I
Speaker 2: don't think that's a necessary reading, but I think that
Speaker 2: that's an interesting element to it.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, definitely, Yeah. I wonder though there is an
Speaker 5: element of like with when it comes to much houses
Speaker 5: by products, there's an element of like Darvaux or gaslighting,
Speaker 5: where you convince yourself that you're doing this because you
Speaker 5: love this person, because they need it, and because ultimately
Speaker 5: their life would be better for it than not. But
Speaker 5: you're still poisoning somebody. You're still like horrendously affecting their life.
Speaker 5: So but then again, I think that you can't really
Speaker 5: pull a sort of how shall I say it, Sometimes
Speaker 5: it's necessary to suspend a sort of real world moralism
Speaker 5: when it comes to a lot of these films, when
Speaker 5: it comes to any work of art. So I wouldn't
Speaker 5: be too critical or to judge, but given the real
Speaker 5: world context of the things like this happens every single day,
Speaker 5: then yes, it is very like destructive and you know, abusive,
Speaker 5: but it's a very feminine style of abuse though right
Speaker 5: it's it's it's mothering to the point of destruction, and
Speaker 5: that is I think something that isn't you know, there's
Speaker 5: a lot of famous cases of course in the real world,
Speaker 5: like there's the whole Gypsy Rose thing, right, But it's
Speaker 5: something that a lot of a lot of people talk about.
Speaker 5: And I think Paul Don Sanderson he's very uh for
Speaker 5: as much as like his recent work is terrible, he
Speaker 5: is willing to go to places that are very like
Speaker 5: unp politically uncorrect, but portraying them a sympathetic way, like
Speaker 5: specifically a Magnolia with Tom Cruise's character. Right. So I
Speaker 5: think even though like nowadays we we view it as well,
Speaker 5: it's hall would And this recent film that came out
Speaker 5: is like Bryy Stellis is I have a green line
Speaker 5: about liberal mustiness. I think if you suspend any moral judgment,
Speaker 5: that does make sense within the film.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, and actually that's an element to it,
Speaker 2: I feel like it is. I was surprised to see
Speaker 2: a movie from this era deal with negative femininity so honestly,
Speaker 2: because a worst director could have very easily turned this
Speaker 2: into sort of a modern liberal morality play where she
Speaker 2: was actually completely morally justified all along. You know, then
Speaker 2: the sort of like bro minds you'd sort of expect
Speaker 2: from you know, woke quote unquote Hollywood. But yeah, no,
Speaker 2: he's sort of it's not entirely negative, right, their relationship
Speaker 2: is an entirely negative. But I do think it is
Speaker 2: interesting that he is very comfortable painting her in a
Speaker 2: in a negative light. And I think it's interesting that
Speaker 2: there are multiple negative versions of femininity, right. You see,
Speaker 2: the the kind of you know, vanity of you know,
Speaker 2: an aging an aging woman in his you know, in
Speaker 2: his clients, this sort of like backbiting cattiness. Uh, you know,
Speaker 2: in the woman that he you know, speaks at at
Speaker 2: the kind of like backgame end game. Yeah, but there
Speaker 2: were there's sort of a number. Uh and honestly, there
Speaker 2: are very few male characters in this book other than Reynolds.
Speaker 5: But that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean, what what do you make of,
Speaker 2: you know, his his relationship to his mother, like his mother,
Speaker 2: you know, while he is poisoned deeply ill, his mother
Speaker 2: sort of appears to him and then when when Alma
Speaker 2: walks into the room, she disappears.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: I think obviously there's a level of replacement there. You know,
Speaker 2: he's becoming his mother, both on a literal level as
Speaker 2: well kind of like a spiritual one. But what do
Speaker 2: you make of that scene.
Speaker 5: That was Yeah, that was another great scene that was
Speaker 5: very telling because I was thinking about this when we
Speaker 5: took a pause. I was thinking about this again, very
Speaker 5: similar to a lot of paintings by Edward Munk, where
Speaker 5: if you look at his uh lithiographs or his paintings
Speaker 5: such as The Sick Child, he was very sickly as
Speaker 5: a kid and he had he was consumed by these
Speaker 5: feminine forces, either through nurses or through his mother. And
Speaker 5: so I think that the film is very honest when
Speaker 5: it comes to sort of female power struggles and intersexual
Speaker 5: competition and and the modolo was thing of It was
Speaker 5: Coco Chanel who wrote this like very telling, uh screed
Speaker 5: about gay men in the fashion in history and how
Speaker 5: they like you know, make women look ridiculous. And there
Speaker 5: was always this like tension between you know, gay gay
Speaker 5: men and women. And I remember one time on Da
Speaker 5: Me and Prude, we had Catherine Dion and Katherine she
Speaker 5: was recently in the New York Times. I don't know
Speaker 5: if you saw that, Jay, but we were reviewing these
Speaker 5: three films and one of them was this film called
Speaker 5: Pig Hag about this this rather large woman and her
Speaker 5: only friends, these gay men, and at the very end
Speaker 5: of the film, she says, you know, my gaze have
Speaker 5: ruined me. My gaze have ruined me. But anyways, that's
Speaker 5: that's off topic. It was very well kind of on topic.
Speaker 5: But it's on topic in the sense that when it
Speaker 5: comes to Woodcock in the film, just by necessity, he
Speaker 5: is surrounded by the world of the feminine. His seamstresses
Speaker 5: are all women, his sister, his mother who died Umma.
Speaker 5: The clients that he has are women. They're very powerful.
Speaker 5: Women employ him. So he has to assert himself as
Speaker 5: a man.
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Speaker 5: In a very different way than men in relation to
Speaker 5: other men. That's why he becomes very standoffish and caddy
Speaker 5: and cantankerous. And so it's a matter of him navigating
Speaker 5: the world of the feminine because of the loss of
Speaker 5: that very maternal feminine influence early on in life. And
Speaker 5: he's always at the one end trying to find and
Speaker 5: I know this is like stereotypical, especially of male artists,
Speaker 5: trying to like go back to mommy, trying to like
Speaker 5: find a motherly maternal replacement. But he's also repulsed by
Speaker 5: it because he has to differentiate himself as a man
Speaker 5: in the world of women, which is, I hate to
Speaker 5: say it, a very unhealthy type of thing, right, especially
Speaker 5: if you're a heterosexual man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that's that's definitely like you
Speaker 2: survised it. Well there right, I'm unfortunately GEO gonna have
Speaker 2: to step out soon just due to real world concerns.
Speaker 2: But just kind of put a bow on it.
Speaker 13: Uh.
Speaker 2: This was really interesting movie. Uh, one that I was
Speaker 2: not particularly excited to watch because the one hundred percent
Speaker 2: honest this was a date night movie for me, and
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, come on, a movie about a male
Speaker 2: dress designer like that, that sounds awful. But it was
Speaker 2: really interesting, you know that there's a lot to be
Speaker 2: said about, you know, the relationship between the sexes, the
Speaker 2: kind of different forms that femininity takes. Uh, andry. I
Speaker 2: had to give my wife credit. She picked a good movie,
Speaker 2: so fair enough, but would recommend it. You can find it,
Speaker 2: rent it for three bucks or sale the high seas.
Speaker 2: But there's an interesting, uh, an interesting commentary there on
Speaker 2: both the nature of what it is to be a
Speaker 2: creative you know, what it is to produce art that
Speaker 2: indexes with the real world and becomes commercialized, and also
Speaker 2: with the feminine, you know, in both positive and negative,
Speaker 2: in kind of multiple different forms.
Speaker 5: Which which is literally the mother of creation the feminine.
Speaker 2: Yeah right, yeah, and so yeah, man, I think it
Speaker 2: was a really interesting film. I appreciate you coming on
Speaker 2: to review it with me. But Geo, if people want
Speaker 2: to find more of you, where should they look.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure my link Tre'll have everything, like from
Speaker 5: my YouTube channel of Jenner Productions, Twitter at Genngo, Substack,
Speaker 5: Geo's content Corner, Telegram. I need to get more Telegram subscribers.
Speaker 5: Unfortunately I don't know Telegram's weird, but uh yeah, Patreon,
Speaker 5: Accompash one Productions, Telegram sorry, substack dot Com, Slash Geo's
Speaker 5: content corner. Every episode of content Minded is only five
Speaker 5: dollars a month, although there's different tiers of Patreon. But
Speaker 5: I'm also starting to get more into art videos and
Speaker 5: where I talk and I paint. I call a painting
Speaker 5: Discourse every Monday, and in the near near future I'm
Speaker 5: going to probably start releasing Patreon exclusive art videos as well.
Speaker 5: So but yeah, I have literally hours upon hours of content,
Speaker 5: and of course you know I have da with with
Speaker 5: Prude Credentialist Digital Archipelago every Tuesday night. And so yeah,
Speaker 5: that's just go to my link tree. That's probably the
Speaker 5: best bat.
Speaker 2: So well, sure thing, man, I appreciate it as far
Speaker 2: as my stuff, Jay Burden Show, Apple, Spotify, YouTube, anywhere
Speaker 2: you will listen to podcasts. You want to support me Patreon,
Speaker 2: Substack or gum road get the episodes early in ed
Speaker 2: free again Geo, I really appreciate it, manye.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, god bless that's great.
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