WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Parting the following podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>Audience, Hey, what's up.

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<v Speaker 1>My name's ben an Nicle and you're listening to Wicked

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<v Speaker 1>and Graam.

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<v Speaker 2>A true crime podcast.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, how's it going?

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone? Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, the uh to

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<v Speaker 2>crime podcast where we pretend to pronounce things correctly when

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<v Speaker 2>really we can't.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually, we're doing good.

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing pretty good.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and this case has been okay because it's Canadian,

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<v Speaker 1>so like there's some hard words in there, but I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know how to brown them, like Coquitlam and Nanaimo.

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<v Speaker 2>There we go, we got those down paths.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, there you go.

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<v Speaker 2>We've been to both those places, so.

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<v Speaker 1>We know, we know, we know.

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<v Speaker 2>What have we got to talk about today? Okay, I

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<v Speaker 2>saw my first robin.

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<v Speaker 1>Spring is in the air and it's a spring. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're a little bit mind.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure a lot of our listeners are a

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<v Speaker 2>little more Southern than us, and they're like, it's been

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<v Speaker 2>spring for like a month. What are you talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>We still have a foot of snow on a still

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<v Speaker 1>actually do snow. It's kind of depressing, but at this

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<v Speaker 1>point it gets a little bit refreshing when it's like

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<v Speaker 1>it's melting on a pretty steady level.

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<v Speaker 2>It is. It's not going to last much longer. Given

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<v Speaker 2>another two maybe three weeks, it'll all be gone. Other

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<v Speaker 2>than a couple of snow piles here and there, you know, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's been the sun shining. It was warm. I

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<v Speaker 2>was in a T shirt today.

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<v Speaker 1>It was great, just the best. I didn't get outside

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<v Speaker 1>really at all today. It was a little a little bit,

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit depressing.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you were you were hunkered down in hunkering down.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to at a deadline.

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<v Speaker 2>How was tiny home life today? Hunkering down, researching and

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<v Speaker 2>not leaving this like four hundred square foot building.

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<v Speaker 1>That was okay, it was okay, it was all right,

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<v Speaker 1>that's it. I survived.

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<v Speaker 2>You survived. Yeah, well I'm glad. I'm not really glad

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<v Speaker 2>you survived.

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<v Speaker 1>It was good. The dogs were outside, so it was good.

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<v Speaker 1>They weren't bothering me.

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<v Speaker 2>No farts on the inside of the house. No, no,

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<v Speaker 2>well that's good. It's a bonus.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's your birthday on Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>Is it a saturday.

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<v Speaker 1>You're turning thirty, right.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm turning twenty nine. I'm turning twenty.

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<v Speaker 1>You go that back that far no, I'm.

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<v Speaker 2>Turning thirty four years old. Wow, you and I are

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<v Speaker 2>the same age. You're pretty much like, give you six

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<v Speaker 2>months and you'll be turning thirty four.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm only thirty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Well so am I right now?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Well I don't have my birthday on Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>Fair enough? And then after that, you you need to

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<v Speaker 2>listen to everything I say, because I'm the wise old man.

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<v Speaker 1>My goodness, Yeah, I gave you some sweet options and

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<v Speaker 1>things we can do. When you chose pizza.

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<v Speaker 2>And beer, pizza, beer and watch a movie at home, that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Why you chose, and actually super chill.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what do you guys do for your birthday? Because

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<v Speaker 2>I know, like for me, there was this one point

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<v Speaker 2>where it's like I just don't want to do parties

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<v Speaker 2>and stuff anymore. I just want to just chill at

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<v Speaker 2>home and I don't care if there's even big dinners

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<v Speaker 2>or anything. I could do it without pizza and beer,

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<v Speaker 2>like what.

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<v Speaker 1>You wouldn't care if there was literally just like a

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<v Speaker 1>normal day, like nothing, and it wasn't even acknowledged exactly

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<v Speaker 1>what that. I don't allow that. I actually, I actually

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<v Speaker 1>think birthdays are a very important thing because they are

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<v Speaker 1>privileged day that are not grounted to some people. So

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<v Speaker 1>I true think that birthday should be celebrated very much.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's very true. But I think a lot of people,

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<v Speaker 2>not all, but a lot of people in this world

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<v Speaker 2>over celebrate their birthday. They think that, well, it is

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<v Speaker 2>my day, everything should be for me. It's like, fuck off,

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<v Speaker 2>You're not that special, you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>It needs to acknowledged, and I think something needs a

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<v Speaker 1>special it has to happen in my opinion for me.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, we live good enough life that I don't

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<v Speaker 2>need a special day dedicated to me. You know, if

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<v Speaker 2>if I want, I can go out and buy pizza

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<v Speaker 2>any day I want and just be like, oh, special

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<v Speaker 2>day for Ben.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh can I cancel the chocolate covered oreos?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, you can't cancel those. That is my birthday cake

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<v Speaker 2>in lieu of if you guys haven't had chocolate covered oreos,

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh. We have a friend that makes them, and they're

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<v Speaker 1>so good. They're they're so good. Two dozen dude.

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<v Speaker 2>She's even dusted them with like edible like gold powder

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<v Speaker 2>before Yeah, like a mica powder, but it's edible. It

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<v Speaker 2>looks fucking fancy and it's delicious. As shit.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll have to post them. Oh, do something, We'll do something. Yeah, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so we got some patrons to think we do Nicole's

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<v Speaker 1>reading today. Well, I have a ton of names to

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<v Speaker 1>pronounce in this case, so I was like, I'll add

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<v Speaker 1>some more to it.

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<v Speaker 2>There we go, we got it, you got it.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, where do we leave off? Okay, so we have

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<v Speaker 1>Abigail Marie Smith, Samantha Dukes, Marissa Webb, Tammy Earle, Elizabeth Short,

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<v Speaker 1>and Kelsey Austin.

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<v Speaker 2>All awesome people who joined us O, thank you very much.

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<v Speaker 1>Actually like easy enough names for me to pronounce, so

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<v Speaker 1>hopefully I didn't fuck any of those up. But I

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<v Speaker 1>don't think I did.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I think it's not that they're necessarily easier names.

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<v Speaker 2>I think we're just getting better at this.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that could be it too.

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<v Speaker 2>It's our awesome skill level of pronunciation going up in

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<v Speaker 2>the world, I think.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, And I'm actually super proud of myself because I

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<v Speaker 1>finished the Robert Picton case. You did, and I've literally

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<v Speaker 1>been putting this case off for a whole year, so

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<v Speaker 1>you know what, well done.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's well done. Major pat of the back to you,

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<v Speaker 2>because it is a major case that's been looming over us.

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<v Speaker 2>It's one that from day one of the podcasts where like,

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<v Speaker 2>we have to do this case. It's one that we've

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<v Speaker 2>had people request time and time again, our most requested case,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's it's deep, it's horrendous a lot, so well

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<v Speaker 2>done for getting through this one.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sure, I definitely had to have a nice hot

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<v Speaker 1>shower before this. So okay, And if you're just listening

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<v Speaker 1>to this and you're like thinking, this is part one,

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<v Speaker 1>it's not part one. This is part two, yo, So

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<v Speaker 1>you got to go back and we listened to the

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<v Speaker 1>last episode because it was part one.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, hit Part one up and then part.

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<v Speaker 1>Two and yeah, part one, I feel like was pretty mild.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like mostly talking about Robert Picton's past is

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<v Speaker 1>like upbringing basically kind of up to the point where

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<v Speaker 1>shit really started going south. I guess. We talked about

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<v Speaker 1>like Piggy Palace and how about the downtown Vancouver East

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<v Speaker 1>Side and yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 2>And some of the incidents that happened surrounding Picton's childhood

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of potentially led him on this path very.

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<v Speaker 1>Much so potentially could have led him on this path.

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<v Speaker 1>So this this one is a bit more like the

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<v Speaker 1>warning we put it the beginning is a bit more.

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<v Speaker 2>Emphasis on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I was like, what is the word? I don't

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<v Speaker 1>even know how to say it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so trigger warning on this because it's a heavy case.

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<v Speaker 1>It is very heavy. And yeah, we finished last episode

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<v Speaker 1>with I was about to tell you about the story

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<v Speaker 1>of Wendy Lynn Eyesetter. So now I'm going to share

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<v Speaker 1>that story.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let's get the bull ball. Get the ball rolled? No,

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<v Speaker 2>it was a ball. We'd be packing the bowl.

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<v Speaker 1>I have no idea. Okay, you don't get.

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<v Speaker 2>It because you don't smoke the marijuana, not that I

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<v Speaker 2>do either. I also also, it's completely legal.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, I get it now. See my brain doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>going there.

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<v Speaker 2>You're too innocent.

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<v Speaker 1>I know I am too innocent sometimes shit, okay, okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was the evening of March twenty second, nineteen

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<v Speaker 1>ninety seven. Robert had picked up Wendy Lynn Eyesetter from

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<v Speaker 1>the downtown East Side. Wendy was thirty years old. She

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately was addicted to heroin and cocaine, an addiction that

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<v Speaker 1>cost her two hundred dollars a day. Wow, thats just

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<v Speaker 1>like some and I have another one in here where

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<v Speaker 1>it's like how much someone spends. It's just like, whoa,

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<v Speaker 1>that is a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it's honestly, if you're spending that much, especially

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<v Speaker 2>what year is this. This was like nineteen ninety seven,

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, spending two hundred dollars a day in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety seven, Yeah, that most people are going to end

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<v Speaker 2>up on the streets because how are you gonna afflord

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<v Speaker 2>that exactly?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, man, sad, that's mind blowing.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>So she had two little kids who live with their father,

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<v Speaker 1>and she tried to beat her addiction many times, but

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<v Speaker 1>unfortunately was never successful. The evening Robert picked her up.

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<v Speaker 1>She was particularly desperate to make money, and though she

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<v Speaker 1>only charged forty dollars a blowjob, Robert had offered her

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<v Speaker 1>one hundred dollars. You see, earlier that night she had

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<v Speaker 1>hit up that can seek the casino and lost sixty dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>She needed to earn that money back so her boyfriend

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<v Speaker 1>slash pimp didn't find out. So she needed like, so

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<v Speaker 1>that extra a little bit of money was like, would

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<v Speaker 1>do it for her? Right?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and that's going to probably stop some a physical altercation.

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<v Speaker 2>Most likely, so it's she was literally going to save

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<v Speaker 2>her ass.

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<v Speaker 1>She was in a rough position. Robert was offering to

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<v Speaker 1>pay the extra money because he wanted to bring her

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<v Speaker 1>back to his place in Port Coquitlam, which was a

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<v Speaker 1>further distance than she would normally travel. When they got

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<v Speaker 1>to Robert's house, she remembers thinking to herself, what a

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<v Speaker 1>pig sty his place was. His bedroom had no bed,

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<v Speaker 1>just a sleeping bag on the floor with a thick

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<v Speaker 1>roll of clear pastick, And at first it was like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh, it's so dexter, but I think that

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<v Speaker 1>the plastic was actually like for cushioning.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Most likely.

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<v Speaker 1>Robert paid Wendy and they did their exchange. Once finished,

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy needed to use the bathroom, where she attempted to

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<v Speaker 1>injected herself with an equal mix of haro and cocaine,

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<v Speaker 1>but unfortunately missed the vein in her leg and didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get high. This may have been a blessing in disguise, though,

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<v Speaker 1>because when she came out of the bathroom and was

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<v Speaker 1>looking through the the phone book for a number, Robert

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<v Speaker 1>approached her from behind. He began to caress her left

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<v Speaker 1>hand before slipping a handcuff around her wrist. This triggered

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<v Speaker 1>a fight reaction to occur inside her, and she began

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<v Speaker 1>to punch, kick, and scream fucking good, like go, go go.

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<v Speaker 2>I remember the first time I actually heard the story,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just like on the edge of my

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<v Speaker 2>seat because holy fuck, I know, I can't imagine being

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<v Speaker 2>in her shoes.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh. She also remembered seeing a large butcher

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<v Speaker 1>knife on the kitchen table, so she directed the fight

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<v Speaker 1>towards the kitchen so she could grab the knife, unfortunately

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<v Speaker 1>grabbing the sharp edge rather than the handle initially and

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<v Speaker 1>cutting her hand quite badly. This did not stop her, though,

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<v Speaker 1>and she started swinging the knife in Robert's direction and

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<v Speaker 1>getting him in the throat. She searched for a way out,

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<v Speaker 1>throwing whatever she could find in the direction of Robert.

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<v Speaker 1>She blacked out at one point, waking up outside but

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<v Speaker 1>still in mid fight with the knife in her hand

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<v Speaker 1>frantically jabbing at Robert. Robert got the knife away from her,

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<v Speaker 1>but then he himself lost consciousness. This was her opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>to run, which she did to the closest neighbor's house,

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<v Speaker 1>but no one was home. She then saw headlights approaching.

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<v Speaker 1>Worried at first it could be Robert, so she hid,

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<v Speaker 1>but noticed there was two people in the car, one

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<v Speaker 1>being a woman. She waved the car down with it

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<v Speaker 1>initially passing, but a few minutes later it came back.

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<v Speaker 1>It was an elderly couple and they were appalled at

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<v Speaker 1>what they were seeing, Like, could you imagine.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh god, I can't imagine.

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy was absolute covered blood. Apparently her guts were also

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<v Speaker 1>spilling out of her stomach, and like, oh my gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>I just think like this, that makes me sound like

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<v Speaker 1>a terrible person. But I'm like so cautious, like just

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<v Speaker 1>so cautious, and I would honestly have trouble stopping. But

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<v Speaker 1>if I was like with you and it was just

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<v Speaker 1>maybe like a single person like that. But then also,

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<v Speaker 1>people do some really fucked up shit to get like

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<v Speaker 1>people in situations sometimes yeah, you don't know, Like I

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<v Speaker 1>hate to say it because yeah, you're right, it sounds terrible,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's situations where.

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<v Speaker 2>Someone could be flagging the vehicle down and faking a

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<v Speaker 2>scenario like that to get you. Yeah, and that's unfortunately

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<v Speaker 2>the world we live in today, which is horrible.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, to actually have to think twice about helping

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<v Speaker 1>someone because it's shit. But something I didn't even put

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<v Speaker 1>in here is like she was holding the knife still

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<v Speaker 1>and then the man was like, don't stab us kind

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<v Speaker 1>of thing. But then she like dropped her knife right away,

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<v Speaker 1>so I think he was like very clear that she

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<v Speaker 1>just like needed help and wasn't actually going to harm them.

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<v Speaker 1>But still, anyway, they got Wendy to the hospital, where

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<v Speaker 1>it was initially not looking good for her. The doctors

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<v Speaker 1>weren't sure if she was going to make it because

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<v Speaker 1>they are working on Wendy though, another stab womb victim

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<v Speaker 1>was brought to the hospital. Robert Robert fucking picked in

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<v Speaker 1>Like that's screwed. He actually went to a different hospital initially,

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<v Speaker 1>oh did he? And I bet you he did that himself,

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<v Speaker 1>but then his of his wounds, he was transferred to

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<v Speaker 1>this one that was more capable to deal with it.

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<v Speaker 1>So within his belongings was a key, a key that

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<v Speaker 1>just so happened to open the handcuff on Wendy's wrists. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like wtf.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Like that's that's a smoking, fucking gun right there.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy thankfully would recover and told the police everything. But

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<v Speaker 1>she did leave out that Robert was paying for sex

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<v Speaker 1>in hopes that she could keep the hundred dollars she earned.

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<v Speaker 1>They told me, she's like that kind of breaks.

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<v Speaker 2>My heart a little bit, Yeah, it is.

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<v Speaker 1>Robert's version of the story was a little different. Basically

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<v Speaker 1>that Wendy came out of the bathroom after injecting herself

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<v Speaker 1>with drugs, saw that Robert had thirty four hundred dollars

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<v Speaker 1>sitting on the kitchen table, demanded that she wanted her

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<v Speaker 1>money up front, and started grabbing for the money when

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<v Speaker 1>the fight broke out. So Robert basically was saying that

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<v Speaker 1>he was protecting himself, and his story like, go fuck yourself.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I'm sorry. It comes down to who are

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<v Speaker 2>you going to believe? I mean, it's one person against

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<v Speaker 2>one person. Where's the proof? Yeah, can't proof shit.

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<v Speaker 1>So anyway, fastward a little bit. Robert was charged with

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<v Speaker 1>attempted murder.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh he was for this, oh shit.

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<v Speaker 1>Assault with the weapon and forcible confinement. But he had money,

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<v Speaker 1>and so he hired one of Vancouver's best known criminal lawyers,

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<v Speaker 1>which hired a priv detective to get as much background

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<v Speaker 1>info on Wendy as possible. And it's that's unclear if

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<v Speaker 1>Wendy was aware that there was like a private detective

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00:15:10.919 --> 00:15:14.720
<v Speaker 1>on her, but she was terrified of Robert and rightfully so,

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<v Speaker 1>and so she didn't show up in court, and therefore

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00:15:18.720 --> 00:15:22.279
<v Speaker 1>the judge dropped all the charges against Robert.

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<v Speaker 2>That's right, Yeah, okay, that's why I was like really

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<v Speaker 2>confused at first. I was like, wait, there was charges,

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00:15:27.399 --> 00:15:30.440
<v Speaker 2>but no, that's right, Okay, now I remember. Yeah, fuck,

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<v Speaker 2>and she has every right to be that fucking terrified

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<v Speaker 2>of someone like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, he's actually kind of like a pretty powerful guy.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I mean money gives you a lot of power,

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<v Speaker 1>and he had a lot of money.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, not only that, he's got a fucking bar that

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<v Speaker 2>people like who roll with the Hell's Angels are chilling

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<v Speaker 2>at all the time.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, that would still be open at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>I think, wouldn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So he's he's got connections with some people you

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00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:54.159
<v Speaker 2>don't want to fuck with.

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<v Speaker 1>Scary people. Actually, yeah, that's true. Oh my gosh, I

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00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:59.399
<v Speaker 1>just hate that position that she was put in.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And then like you say, the money as well

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<v Speaker 2>to hire whoever or whatever. Fuck, that's scary.

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<v Speaker 1>So it went into a lot of detail with Wendy's story,

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<v Speaker 1>Unlike the majority of the other woman the other women,

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00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:16.440
<v Speaker 1>her story is known. She was a survivor of Robert

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<v Speaker 1>Picton and the glimpse into her story may paint a

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<v Speaker 1>picture of what some of these other women went through

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00:16:22.559 --> 00:16:26.679
<v Speaker 1>who suffered a different fate. Now, there are some other

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00:16:26.799 --> 00:16:30.559
<v Speaker 1>noteworthy incidents that happened that should also have gotten Robert

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<v Speaker 1>caught and put behind bars, but they didn't. Of course,

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<v Speaker 1>Gina Houston was a friend of Robert's and I have

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00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.519
<v Speaker 1>a friend in quotations quotations because she was more so

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00:16:43.720 --> 00:16:47.240
<v Speaker 1>using Robert. Gina was described as a con artist, thief,

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00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:51.559
<v Speaker 1>drug addict, sex worker, and on occasion madam of a

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00:16:51.559 --> 00:16:56.240
<v Speaker 1>busy brothel. But they did have a mutual business partnership,

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00:16:56.399 --> 00:16:59.679
<v Speaker 1>and that was that Robert would help her with money

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00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:03.320
<v Speaker 1>and food food and Gino would help him find and

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00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:07.000
<v Speaker 1>bring back women from the downtown Eastside back to the farm.

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00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:11.039
<v Speaker 1>She would also bring other people into Robert's life, one

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00:17:11.119 --> 00:17:16.039
<v Speaker 1>being Andrew Bellwood. When Robert Andrew met, they seemed to

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00:17:16.119 --> 00:17:19.440
<v Speaker 1>hit it off instantly. Andrew was described as a tall

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00:17:19.920 --> 00:17:22.440
<v Speaker 1>and lean as tall and lean with a preppy look

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<v Speaker 1>to him, but a crack addict, with a criminal record

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00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:29.279
<v Speaker 1>and troubled past. He would sometimes spend up to five

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00:17:29.359 --> 00:17:33.599
<v Speaker 1>thousand dollars on cocaine for three to four day binges.

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00:17:33.839 --> 00:17:36.960
<v Speaker 1>Holy shit, Like that's so much.

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00:17:37.319 --> 00:17:40.359
<v Speaker 2>How can you survive through that? I know that's a

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00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:41.759
<v Speaker 2>lot in your system?

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<v Speaker 1>Wow? Yeah, and yeah, that's I don't know, just the

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00:17:45.720 --> 00:17:48.839
<v Speaker 1>amount that these people are spending on drugs and stuff

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00:17:48.880 --> 00:17:52.559
<v Speaker 1>and they feel like the need and it's necessary for them,

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<v Speaker 1>right like because they have this addiction.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just it's it's horrible and like you, like we

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00:17:57.839 --> 00:18:00.000
<v Speaker 2>discussed already. This is in the nineties, this isn't today.

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00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So inflation, Yeah, I know, I'm not even gonna

357
00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:06.480
<v Speaker 1>look up that inflation and make us more upset.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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00:18:07.519 --> 00:18:11.920
<v Speaker 1>So anyway, on one particular evening, Robert wanted Andrew to

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<v Speaker 1>go get a sex worker with him. This didn't interest Andrew,

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00:18:16.160 --> 00:18:19.880
<v Speaker 1>so he refused, but Robert proceeded to tell him what

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00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.119
<v Speaker 1>he did to sex workers. He reached under his mattress,

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00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:27.279
<v Speaker 1>grabbing a set of handcuffs. Then he pulled out a

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00:18:27.319 --> 00:18:30.240
<v Speaker 1>belt and a wire. He told Andrew he would pick

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00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:33.960
<v Speaker 1>them up from the downtown east Side, drawing them in

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<v Speaker 1>with drugs and money. He'd bring them to his farm,

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00:18:37.599 --> 00:18:40.519
<v Speaker 1>do them doggy style on his bed, which gave him

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<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to be behind them. He then handcuffed them

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00:18:44.759 --> 00:18:49.359
<v Speaker 1>before moving on to strangle them. He'd tell them that

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<v Speaker 1>everything was going to be all right, things are going

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<v Speaker 1>to be okay. Now that's a good girl.

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<v Speaker 2>Fuck what a sick, perverted fuck, it's just nasty.

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<v Speaker 1>He told Andrew how much they would bleed. He'd take

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<v Speaker 1>them out to the barn. He'd hang them, bleed them

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00:19:08.119 --> 00:19:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and gut them, and whatever the pigs didn't eat, he'd

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<v Speaker 1>throw in a barrel to take to the waste plant. Fuck.

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00:19:16.240 --> 00:19:20.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this is where we get into the uh, well,

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00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:23.119
<v Speaker 2>the very famous parts of this story.

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00:19:24.400 --> 00:19:26.319
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there's a lot of famous parts of the story.

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00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:30.079
<v Speaker 1>We're not quite there. Yeah, okay, But imagine being told

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<v Speaker 1>something like that by someone like I just don't I

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<v Speaker 1>think I would just be terrified.

383
00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:38.400
<v Speaker 2>What would you do in that situation? Like, imagine you're

384
00:19:38.440 --> 00:19:41.720
<v Speaker 2>in that situation. What would your reaction be? Well, obviously

385
00:19:41.720 --> 00:19:43.279
<v Speaker 2>you have like an internal reaction, but how would you

386
00:19:43.359 --> 00:19:48.160
<v Speaker 2>deal with that situation? Well, because you were alone with

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00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:49.359
<v Speaker 2>a murder er, now.

388
00:19:49.160 --> 00:19:52.200
<v Speaker 1>You'd have to just fake that. It was like fine, Yeah,

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00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:55.240
<v Speaker 1>I think to get yourself out of that situation. But

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00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>then the thing is, like, I feel like I would

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00:19:57.519 --> 00:19:59.720
<v Speaker 1>go instantly and report that, which a lot of people

392
00:19:59.759 --> 00:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>don't end up doing. But that's because Robert then gets

393
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:04.720
<v Speaker 1>in their head and scares the shit out of them. So,

394
00:20:04.880 --> 00:20:10.160
<v Speaker 1>like this next part, Robert clearly regretted telling Andrew this

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00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:15.119
<v Speaker 1>because days later he would accuse Andrew stealing tools from

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00:20:15.200 --> 00:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>him and arrange for some guys to come and talk

397
00:20:17.759 --> 00:20:20.160
<v Speaker 1>to him, which you know means he got the shit

398
00:20:20.279 --> 00:20:22.759
<v Speaker 1>kicked out of him. Yeah, he was told he had

399
00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:25.960
<v Speaker 1>twenty four hours to get the tools back to Robert

400
00:20:26.440 --> 00:20:29.640
<v Speaker 1>or he'd be a dead man. The next day, Andrew

401
00:20:29.680 --> 00:20:32.519
<v Speaker 1>would head to the ferry terminal, crossing the ocean to

402
00:20:32.599 --> 00:20:35.720
<v Speaker 1>head home to his mother's house in Annaibo. He was

403
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:38.680
<v Speaker 1>treated in hospital for a broken nose, but never set

404
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:41.640
<v Speaker 1>foot on the picked and farm again and never reported

405
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.920
<v Speaker 1>the incident to the police.

406
00:20:43.960 --> 00:20:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Fuck, that's scary.

407
00:20:46.519 --> 00:20:49.119
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's like Robert has these people like right where

408
00:20:49.160 --> 00:20:49.799
<v Speaker 1>he wants them.

409
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:53.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Well, he's got influence over certain individuals that you

410
00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:55.039
<v Speaker 2>don't want to be on the bad side of.

411
00:20:55.119 --> 00:20:57.480
<v Speaker 1>And he feels confident enough to share this weird shit

412
00:20:57.559 --> 00:21:00.240
<v Speaker 1>with everyone because he just thinks that he's going to

413
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:01.279
<v Speaker 1>keep getting away with it, and.

414
00:21:01.279 --> 00:21:04.160
<v Speaker 2>It yes, because he at this point is getting away

415
00:21:04.160 --> 00:21:06.400
<v Speaker 2>with it. He has all the power on his side

416
00:21:06.640 --> 00:21:10.400
<v Speaker 2>anyone who he's talking to, and like they know he

417
00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:11.480
<v Speaker 2>can get away with the shit.

418
00:21:11.880 --> 00:21:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yep. Now the next incident is so disturbing if this

419
00:21:17.480 --> 00:21:23.200
<v Speaker 1>shit hasn't been disturbing enough, and involves an incident with

420
00:21:23.559 --> 00:21:29.640
<v Speaker 1>Lynn Ellingson and what Lynn would see. Lynn was also

421
00:21:30.240 --> 00:21:33.640
<v Speaker 1>introduced to Robert through Gina. They met when staying at

422
00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:37.359
<v Speaker 1>a woman's shelter at the same time. Lynn was a

423
00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:40.720
<v Speaker 1>single mother addicted to alcohol and cocaine and was at

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00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:44.519
<v Speaker 1>the shelter after breaking up with an abusive partner. And

425
00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:46.519
<v Speaker 1>something I didn't even put in here is Robert also

426
00:21:46.640 --> 00:21:49.000
<v Speaker 1>likes to feel like he's helping people too, Like he

427
00:21:49.279 --> 00:21:51.480
<v Speaker 1>I literally thinks that he thought that he's like a

428
00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:54.200
<v Speaker 1>good person sometimes and in how he was helping.

429
00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:57.559
<v Speaker 2>People, probably because he's probably got this like mindset it's like, well,

430
00:21:57.599 --> 00:22:00.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm doing a good thing because I'm gonna ye pay

431
00:22:00.519 --> 00:22:02.079
<v Speaker 2>them to do this thing and I'm going to give

432
00:22:02.079 --> 00:22:03.599
<v Speaker 2>them money, or he thinks.

433
00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:05.799
<v Speaker 1>That he's like helping people with their addictions. And stuff like,

434
00:22:05.839 --> 00:22:07.119
<v Speaker 1>it's just really messed up.

435
00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:09.440
<v Speaker 2>He thinks he's a savior, but he's just a douche canoe.

436
00:22:09.559 --> 00:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Yep. So the shelter Lynne was staying at only allowed

437
00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.079
<v Speaker 1>for people to stay for a month at a time.

438
00:22:15.720 --> 00:22:18.720
<v Speaker 1>Once Lynne's month was up, she initially moved in with

439
00:22:18.759 --> 00:22:21.960
<v Speaker 1>a friend, but when that didn't work, in desperation, she

440
00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:27.079
<v Speaker 1>needed somewhere else. When Gina suggested Robert's farm, she jumped,

441
00:22:28.359 --> 00:22:32.240
<v Speaker 1>I know, what a bitch like she should know better,

442
00:22:32.279 --> 00:22:35.720
<v Speaker 1>but well she knows exactly and she's helping Robert, right,

443
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:37.079
<v Speaker 1>and yeah.

444
00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:37.920
<v Speaker 2>She knows what she's doing.

445
00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.039
<v Speaker 1>She jumped at this. The farm always had work needing

446
00:22:42.079 --> 00:22:44.680
<v Speaker 1>to be done. She didn't get a salary, but got

447
00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.720
<v Speaker 1>money for food, drugs, and alcohol and a place to stay,

448
00:22:48.640 --> 00:22:50.720
<v Speaker 1>so she felt it was a good exchange.

449
00:22:51.640 --> 00:22:54.279
<v Speaker 2>So wait, wait, she wasn't getting paid for her work,

450
00:22:54.440 --> 00:22:55.720
<v Speaker 2>but she was getting money.

451
00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:59.480
<v Speaker 1>Well, she was getting like money for food, for drugs,

452
00:22:59.519 --> 00:23:02.359
<v Speaker 1>four l alcohol. Okay, like he would supply those things

453
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:02.880
<v Speaker 1>to her.

454
00:23:03.319 --> 00:23:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha, Yeah, I mean she was essentially getting paid them

455
00:23:06.160 --> 00:23:07.039
<v Speaker 2>basically essentially.

456
00:23:07.119 --> 00:23:09.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Like I mean, if you're getting your whole cost

457
00:23:09.079 --> 00:23:11.240
<v Speaker 1>of living paid for that, I mean is that what

458
00:23:11.240 --> 00:23:12.359
<v Speaker 1>our salaries going to?

459
00:23:13.599 --> 00:23:14.119
<v Speaker 2>Basically?

460
00:23:14.240 --> 00:23:18.119
<v Speaker 1>So, oh my gosh, my little light bulb just went off.

461
00:23:18.200 --> 00:23:19.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

462
00:23:19.240 --> 00:23:22.599
<v Speaker 1>So, on the evening of March twentieth, nineteen ninety nine,

463
00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:26.559
<v Speaker 1>Robert and Lynn were out for a drive, a drive

464
00:23:26.640 --> 00:23:30.960
<v Speaker 1>to downtown Vancouver's oh, I said, downtown Okay, Vancouver's downtown

465
00:23:31.000 --> 00:23:34.279
<v Speaker 1>east Side, There you go. Robert asked Lynn what she

466
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.880
<v Speaker 1>was going to do for the evening, in which she

467
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:40.559
<v Speaker 1>responded was to get high. Robert asked if it would

468
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:43.119
<v Speaker 1>be okay if she picked up a girl for the night.

469
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:47.359
<v Speaker 1>Lynn said it was fine. And I one hundred percent

470
00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:49.920
<v Speaker 1>think Robert knew what he was doing here because when

471
00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:52.559
<v Speaker 1>he found a girl he liked and asked her to

472
00:23:52.599 --> 00:23:55.599
<v Speaker 1>come back to his place tonight. She looked to Lynn

473
00:23:55.799 --> 00:23:59.000
<v Speaker 1>for reassurance. She asked her if she was going to

474
00:23:59.039 --> 00:24:02.880
<v Speaker 1>be there and and said she lived there. So of

475
00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:05.359
<v Speaker 1>course the woman felt comfortable to get in the car

476
00:24:05.400 --> 00:24:08.799
<v Speaker 1>and go there. Because remember everyone down there was like

477
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of on edge because they were very much so

478
00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:12.839
<v Speaker 1>aware that people were missing, and there was a serial

479
00:24:12.920 --> 00:24:13.400
<v Speaker 1>killer on.

480
00:24:13.440 --> 00:24:17.319
<v Speaker 2>The lips, and there was like an atmosphere where the

481
00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:20.920
<v Speaker 2>girls were looking after each other sort of thing, right, So, fuck.

482
00:24:21.200 --> 00:24:25.160
<v Speaker 1>So Lynn being in the car just like gave her.

483
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.200
<v Speaker 2>That confidence now that it's going to be affirmation.

484
00:24:28.279 --> 00:24:31.319
<v Speaker 1>And also Lynn like had drugs on her lap, I

485
00:24:31.359 --> 00:24:34.880
<v Speaker 1>think too, And so then this the sex worker wanted

486
00:24:34.880 --> 00:24:38.480
<v Speaker 1>that as well, right, So Lynn and the woman smoked

487
00:24:38.519 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 1>crack together for a bit before Robert was ready to

488
00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:44.680
<v Speaker 1>take the woman to his room. Lynn would also go

489
00:24:44.759 --> 00:24:48.160
<v Speaker 1>to her room and continue to do drugs. At some point,

490
00:24:48.279 --> 00:24:51.680
<v Speaker 1>Lynn would hear a noise, a scream, she thought, which

491
00:24:51.720 --> 00:24:55.400
<v Speaker 1>came from outside. She went to Robert's room, saw that

492
00:24:55.440 --> 00:24:58.480
<v Speaker 1>it was empty, and then noticed a light on in

493
00:24:58.519 --> 00:25:01.640
<v Speaker 1>the barn where Robert was where he normally does his butchering.

494
00:25:04.759 --> 00:25:08.640
<v Speaker 1>Still hearing odd noises, she decided to walk over to

495
00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.799
<v Speaker 1>the barn. When she got closer, she could smell something awful,

496
00:25:13.319 --> 00:25:16.160
<v Speaker 1>and as she pushed open the barn door, that's when

497
00:25:16.200 --> 00:25:21.559
<v Speaker 1>she saw She saw the woman's body hanging. She mostly

498
00:25:21.640 --> 00:25:25.240
<v Speaker 1>remembers her legs and her painted nail polas, but she

499
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:28.680
<v Speaker 1>knew how she was hanging. It was the same way

500
00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>the pigs would hang after being slaughtered. Like, I just

501
00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:36.880
<v Speaker 1>can't I can't even imagine walking into something like that.

502
00:25:37.839 --> 00:25:44.240
<v Speaker 1>Holy shit. Robert noticed Lynne entered the barn, grabbed her

503
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:47.559
<v Speaker 1>and brought her closer to the whole situation, but she

504
00:25:47.640 --> 00:25:52.279
<v Speaker 1>avoided looking around and remembers how sick she felt. Robert

505
00:25:52.319 --> 00:25:55.079
<v Speaker 1>sang to her that it was okay, she's just like

506
00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.920
<v Speaker 1>a pig anyways, it's all right, it's going to be

507
00:25:58.119 --> 00:25:58.559
<v Speaker 1>all right.

508
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Fuck this fucking guy.

509
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:04.359
<v Speaker 1>The way that he talks about people just is disgusting.

510
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:05.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, the way.

511
00:26:05.519 --> 00:26:07.880
<v Speaker 1>He doesn't even give a shit, which is just mind blowing.

512
00:26:08.039 --> 00:26:11.559
<v Speaker 2>No, he doesn't. And because like, not only the way

513
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:15.160
<v Speaker 2>that he treated this individual and has her fucking hanging

514
00:26:15.200 --> 00:26:17.559
<v Speaker 2>like a pig, but how he's treating the next girl

515
00:26:17.799 --> 00:26:20.279
<v Speaker 2>and it's just like doesn't give a shit about what

516
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:21.480
<v Speaker 2>she's thinking or anything.

517
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:26.519
<v Speaker 1>No. He continued which with his butchering until he threatened

518
00:26:26.559 --> 00:26:29.799
<v Speaker 1>her not to say a word to anyone, or that

519
00:26:29.839 --> 00:26:34.319
<v Speaker 1>she'd be next right next to the woman. She told

520
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:36.920
<v Speaker 1>him she wouldn't say a word and only wanted her

521
00:26:36.960 --> 00:26:40.559
<v Speaker 1>dope and booze. He walked Lynn back to the trailer,

522
00:26:40.599 --> 00:26:43.359
<v Speaker 1>where she packed her bag. Robert gave her some money,

523
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.680
<v Speaker 1>called a cab, and told her to call him tomorrow.

524
00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:52.559
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear what Lynn's exact involvement with Robert was after

525
00:26:53.079 --> 00:26:57.279
<v Speaker 1>what she witnessed, but the incident once again didn't get

526
00:26:57.319 --> 00:27:01.559
<v Speaker 1>reported as Lynn feared Robert. I mean, he did threaten

527
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:04.599
<v Speaker 1>her and she was very much so dependent on him

528
00:27:04.599 --> 00:27:05.599
<v Speaker 1>for money and drugs.

529
00:27:05.720 --> 00:27:07.359
<v Speaker 2>Well, how much of an impact do you think it

530
00:27:07.400 --> 00:27:10.680
<v Speaker 2>would make if if you're standing next to a half

531
00:27:10.799 --> 00:27:16.799
<v Speaker 2>butchered individual with the perpetrator right there holding I'm assuming,

532
00:27:18.319 --> 00:27:20.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, maybe a cleaver or a big old

533
00:27:20.359 --> 00:27:24.480
<v Speaker 2>fucking butchering knife. If somebody everywhere basically and saying keep

534
00:27:24.480 --> 00:27:26.559
<v Speaker 2>your mouth shut or it's you next.

535
00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I just think you just I would

536
00:27:29.160 --> 00:27:32.920
<v Speaker 1>be so terrified. It'd be unbelievable. Now, and you were

537
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:35.079
<v Speaker 1>living with him, you know what kind of influence and

538
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:36.039
<v Speaker 1>shit this guy has.

539
00:27:36.119 --> 00:27:41.039
<v Speaker 2>So Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's an excuse

540
00:27:41.039 --> 00:27:43.200
<v Speaker 2>to not be reporting stuff after the fact that once

541
00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:45.839
<v Speaker 2>you're safe, but I mean in that meantime.

542
00:27:46.079 --> 00:27:49.319
<v Speaker 1>Fuck but to her, in her mind and stuff, Robert

543
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:50.680
<v Speaker 1>was the one making her safe.

544
00:27:51.359 --> 00:27:54.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, prior to all I know is at the

545
00:27:54.680 --> 00:27:57.240
<v Speaker 2>first moment I got I would literally be running down

546
00:27:57.240 --> 00:27:57.960
<v Speaker 2>that fucking road.

547
00:27:59.039 --> 00:28:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, I know, Oh my gosh, Oh okay,

548
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:05.200
<v Speaker 1>I just can't.

549
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.079
<v Speaker 2>Like I would not be sleeping that night. I'd be like, yeah,

550
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:09.319
<v Speaker 2>she probably didn't give me some weed and some booze

551
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:12.400
<v Speaker 2>or whatever drug it is, and you know, I probably,

552
00:28:12.759 --> 00:28:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean maybe you'd need to do it to get

553
00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:17.839
<v Speaker 2>your fix or the stress of the situation. I mean, yeah,

554
00:28:17.839 --> 00:28:19.599
<v Speaker 2>i'd probably need a drink. Actually, no, I think of it.

555
00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:21.759
<v Speaker 2>But then I wouldn't be sleeping. I'd be waiting for

556
00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:23.359
<v Speaker 2>him to go to sleep, and I'd be playing it

557
00:28:23.400 --> 00:28:27.000
<v Speaker 2>all cool, and then I'd be gone at like fucking

558
00:28:27.039 --> 00:28:28.440
<v Speaker 2>one in the morning. I'm gone.

559
00:28:29.079 --> 00:28:30.799
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, But then what if he went and like he

560
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.359
<v Speaker 1>spent all that time getting rid of all the eminence

561
00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:37.559
<v Speaker 1>and shit. And then also like think about the because

562
00:28:37.559 --> 00:28:40.599
<v Speaker 1>the police weren't taking people seriously, right that had like

563
00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 1>addictions or that were had like oh criminal past and stuff,

564
00:28:44.680 --> 00:28:46.960
<v Speaker 1>so they might not even take her word.

565
00:28:47.559 --> 00:28:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's that's very much so true. But I'm just

566
00:28:49.759 --> 00:28:51.960
<v Speaker 2>saying if it were me in that situation, I'd be

567
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:54.640
<v Speaker 2>high tening it like a little bit. Oh yeah, guaranteed,

568
00:28:55.039 --> 00:28:58.039
<v Speaker 2>I'd be scooling down the road like this little piggy

569
00:28:58.039 --> 00:29:00.079
<v Speaker 2>went home, would.

570
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:05.160
<v Speaker 1>Be running after you. Would Be's quite an interesting scene actually, okay. So,

571
00:29:05.319 --> 00:29:10.160
<v Speaker 1>Also in nineteen ninety nine, Bill hit hischcocks who worked

572
00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.359
<v Speaker 1>for the Pictons, would report to the police information he

573
00:29:13.359 --> 00:29:17.920
<v Speaker 1>heard from YSA Lisa Yelts. Lisa, who I haven't mentioned yet,

574
00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.799
<v Speaker 1>was best friends with Robert and best friends with him

575
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:25.400
<v Speaker 1>for some time and an actual best friend. Unlike Gina,

576
00:29:26.039 --> 00:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>she knew a lot of family secrets, though she didn't

577
00:29:28.920 --> 00:29:33.359
<v Speaker 1>know about Robert's fascination with the downtown east Side anyway.

578
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:37.599
<v Speaker 1>Lisa had mentioned to Bill of seeing women's clothing items

579
00:29:37.680 --> 00:29:42.119
<v Speaker 1>all over the place at Robert's, as well as purses

580
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:44.519
<v Speaker 1>and id IDs in his trailer.

581
00:29:45.519 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 2>I do like ads of women behind.

582
00:29:47.839 --> 00:29:52.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Bill reported this to the police and what a

583
00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:55.440
<v Speaker 1>strange character Robert was. And he said, with all the

584
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:58.720
<v Speaker 1>women going missing and the attempted murder charge of Wendy,

585
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:05.119
<v Speaker 1>he felt this quite a coincidence. Police attempted to question Lisa,

586
00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:08.319
<v Speaker 1>but she had a strong distrust towards the police and

587
00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:12.480
<v Speaker 1>so was not cooperative. Unfortunately, the police could not do

588
00:30:12.519 --> 00:30:16.039
<v Speaker 1>anything with this information. This wasn't something they could obtain

589
00:30:16.079 --> 00:30:19.640
<v Speaker 1>a search warrm for from. It was just verbal information

590
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:25.920
<v Speaker 1>reported by someone who was not directly a witness. Fuck yeah,

591
00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:27.880
<v Speaker 1>now I wanted to go over some of the details

592
00:30:27.880 --> 00:30:30.279
<v Speaker 1>of what exactly the police were doing in regards to

593
00:30:30.319 --> 00:30:33.720
<v Speaker 1>this case. So, I mean, we've already kind of touched.

594
00:30:33.720 --> 00:30:37.400
<v Speaker 1>It took them quite a while to do anything.

595
00:30:37.039 --> 00:30:40.039
<v Speaker 2>Really like any sort of involvement. It took them a

596
00:30:40.119 --> 00:30:40.960
<v Speaker 2>long time to get away.

597
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.119
<v Speaker 1>They were very much so denying that there was a

598
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:49.240
<v Speaker 1>serial killer really or anything going wrong. In nineteen ninety nine,

599
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.319
<v Speaker 1>the police department formed a working group called Project Amelia,

600
00:30:53.640 --> 00:30:57.440
<v Speaker 1>which was looking at disappearances of forty women between the

601
00:30:57.519 --> 00:31:01.880
<v Speaker 1>years of nineteen seventy one and nineteen. They had luck

602
00:31:01.880 --> 00:31:04.640
<v Speaker 1>in locating some of the missing women on their list, actually,

603
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and very much so believed that a serial killer was

604
00:31:08.799 --> 00:31:09.200
<v Speaker 1>at work.

605
00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:12.440
<v Speaker 2>Well no shit, Yeah, it took them long.

606
00:31:12.400 --> 00:31:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Enough, hey, but struggling with the old boys of the

607
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:19.000
<v Speaker 1>force who didn't seem to want to believe in new

608
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:25.440
<v Speaker 1>emerging methods of investigation. In two thousand, the project was stopped,

609
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:30.759
<v Speaker 1>with beliefs that the disappearances were going down and that

610
00:31:30.839 --> 00:31:34.359
<v Speaker 1>they were stopped, but they hadn't stopped, so that the

611
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:39.359
<v Speaker 1>decision was made to put the officers on more important investigations.

612
00:31:39.559 --> 00:31:43.480
<v Speaker 2>Now I'm curious at what I mean older new tactics like,

613
00:31:43.519 --> 00:31:46.680
<v Speaker 2>it doesn't matter. I'm curious as to what it was

614
00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:49.960
<v Speaker 2>that made them think that it was on a decline.

615
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 1>It had slowed down. It had like there were some

616
00:31:53.480 --> 00:31:56.880
<v Speaker 1>years where it was like thirteen or whatever, and then

617
00:31:57.039 --> 00:31:58.640
<v Speaker 1>it went down and there was like a one year

618
00:31:58.799 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 1>was like five and then that year where it stopped.

619
00:32:00.680 --> 00:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>There had only been one so far, so they were

620
00:32:02.960 --> 00:32:05.559
<v Speaker 1>thinking that it was just like on the decline, so

621
00:32:05.880 --> 00:32:07.799
<v Speaker 1>like wishful thinking almost, it seemed like.

622
00:32:07.839 --> 00:32:10.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean even still they say, Okay, there is a

623
00:32:10.640 --> 00:32:13.160
<v Speaker 2>possibility of there being a serial killer out there, and

624
00:32:13.200 --> 00:32:15.200
<v Speaker 2>then all of a sudden, it's on a decline. That's

625
00:32:15.240 --> 00:32:20.480
<v Speaker 2>pretty convenient. So what do you do, Oh, let's just

626
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:21.039
<v Speaker 2>ignore it.

627
00:32:21.079 --> 00:32:23.400
<v Speaker 1>Well, bit and because like who cares if it was

628
00:32:23.400 --> 00:32:27.279
<v Speaker 1>on a decline exactly? Still all these missing women exactly,

629
00:32:27.359 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 1>they not feel like they needed to figure that out.

630
00:32:29.359 --> 00:32:33.319
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and so they think, yeah, there's a serial killer,

631
00:32:33.519 --> 00:32:36.319
<v Speaker 2>they start looking into it. Wouldn't it be convenient and

632
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:40.079
<v Speaker 2>normal for that to be a decline? Wouldn't that indicate that? Yeah,

633
00:32:40.079 --> 00:32:42.359
<v Speaker 2>they're right, because now the serial killer is backing off

634
00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>with the investigations ensuing. Yeah, so clearly that is confirming

635
00:32:47.279 --> 00:32:49.039
<v Speaker 2>their suspicions, because there was.

636
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:51.279
<v Speaker 1>Even times that they would be fat, they would follow

637
00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.519
<v Speaker 1>picked in and stuff or Robert, but they always seemed

638
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:58.200
<v Speaker 1>like he knew right, and so then at those moments

639
00:32:58.200 --> 00:32:59.759
<v Speaker 1>in time, like he wouldn't do anything wrong.

640
00:33:00.079 --> 00:33:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then so yeah, of course, whenever a serial

641
00:33:03.599 --> 00:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>killer you know, I don't know, stopped doing bad things,

642
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.039
<v Speaker 2>you just let them get away with it.

643
00:33:09.160 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>Clearly, Yeah, holy, holy, Okay. In two thousand and one,

644
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Project Even Handed would take on missing files from Project Amelia.

645
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:23.279
<v Speaker 1>The team was a joint force, though it was a

646
00:33:23.359 --> 00:33:28.720
<v Speaker 1>joint force of RCMP and Vancouver Police Department investigators, and

647
00:33:28.839 --> 00:33:32.720
<v Speaker 1>the starting point was to acknowledge that the Vancouver Police

648
00:33:32.720 --> 00:33:35.880
<v Speaker 1>Department had refused to accept that a serial killer was

649
00:33:35.920 --> 00:33:39.680
<v Speaker 1>responsible for the disappearances. Good, so this one, like this,

650
00:33:39.839 --> 00:33:42.319
<v Speaker 1>like seems when the shit legitly started.

651
00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:44.640
<v Speaker 2>Here, it's when the foot was put down. It's like, okay,

652
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:47.359
<v Speaker 2>we need to do something. Yeah, And it took long enough.

653
00:33:47.759 --> 00:33:52.119
<v Speaker 1>So instead of just investigating missing women, they were also

654
00:33:52.200 --> 00:33:56.640
<v Speaker 1>looking at suspected men, which is what needed to be happening.

655
00:33:56.759 --> 00:33:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Awesome.

656
00:33:57.559 --> 00:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Robert was on that list and he was actually consider

657
00:34:00.519 --> 00:34:05.480
<v Speaker 1>top priority. Dun Dun, dun But they needed some sort

658
00:34:05.480 --> 00:34:08.400
<v Speaker 1>of lucky break, because you can't just like I think,

659
00:34:08.559 --> 00:34:11.760
<v Speaker 1>you need proof and stuff to get in search warrants

660
00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.800
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, right, So they needed some sort of lucky break,

661
00:34:14.840 --> 00:34:21.039
<v Speaker 1>and that's exactly what they got. RCMP officer Nathan Wells

662
00:34:21.360 --> 00:34:25.199
<v Speaker 1>was dispatched to a dispute between Scott Chubb and his

663
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:30.440
<v Speaker 1>common law wife, Tasha, who was separated with At the time, Nathan,

664
00:34:30.679 --> 00:34:33.320
<v Speaker 1>the officer had been on the force for less than

665
00:34:33.320 --> 00:34:37.719
<v Speaker 1>a year. Nathan de escalated the situation between Scott and

666
00:34:37.800 --> 00:34:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Tasha by talking to Scott for some time. He also

667
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:45.480
<v Speaker 1>realized Scott maybe use a useful source to him at

668
00:34:45.519 --> 00:34:48.639
<v Speaker 1>some point in time, so established a sort of friendship

669
00:34:48.639 --> 00:34:52.800
<v Speaker 1>with him and left him with his number. Nathan would

670
00:34:52.800 --> 00:34:57.000
<v Speaker 1>move into a new job within the Coquitlam's RCMP Drug

671
00:34:57.079 --> 00:35:01.119
<v Speaker 1>section when Scott would give him a call suggesting that

672
00:35:01.159 --> 00:35:04.960
<v Speaker 1>they should meet. You see, Scott had just lost his

673
00:35:05.079 --> 00:35:07.679
<v Speaker 1>job and needed money for rent. So I was looking

674
00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:13.280
<v Speaker 1>at providing Nathan with information in exchange for money.

675
00:35:14.079 --> 00:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Gotcha.

676
00:35:14.599 --> 00:35:16.239
<v Speaker 1>So I didn't even know, like that was a thing

677
00:35:16.280 --> 00:35:19.440
<v Speaker 1>that people would go to the police to do.

678
00:35:21.559 --> 00:35:21.960
<v Speaker 2>Anything.

679
00:35:22.960 --> 00:35:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Do you have the information?

680
00:35:24.039 --> 00:35:24.719
<v Speaker 2>I guess right?

681
00:35:25.679 --> 00:35:29.679
<v Speaker 1>So long story short, Scott knew of a person with illegal,

682
00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:35.199
<v Speaker 1>unregistered firearms in his possession, and that person was Robert

683
00:35:35.559 --> 00:35:36.000
<v Speaker 1>picked In.

684
00:35:36.440 --> 00:35:40.000
<v Speaker 2>See you said a moment or two ago that the

685
00:35:40.400 --> 00:35:43.719
<v Speaker 2>RCMP needed a lucky break. This isn't a lucky break

686
00:35:43.719 --> 00:35:47.119
<v Speaker 2>as far as I'm concerned, because Robert is flailing things

687
00:35:47.119 --> 00:35:50.079
<v Speaker 2>like this around yea, and to a lot of individuals

688
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 2>who are passing through his property.

689
00:35:51.800 --> 00:35:53.079
<v Speaker 1>It's not about time.

690
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.719
<v Speaker 2>Really, Yeah, it's not a lucky break. It's something was

691
00:35:55.760 --> 00:35:58.159
<v Speaker 2>going to catch up to him. Eventually, something had to give,

692
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:00.320
<v Speaker 2>and I think he got away with it far longer

693
00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:01.119
<v Speaker 2>than he should.

694
00:36:00.840 --> 00:36:02.639
<v Speaker 1>Have, way too fucking long.

695
00:36:02.840 --> 00:36:05.039
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, like you said, it was about time.

696
00:36:05.639 --> 00:36:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Well even with these got these guns, like apparently he

697
00:36:08.480 --> 00:36:11.280
<v Speaker 1>had even like let Scott borel them and stuff like

698
00:36:11.320 --> 00:36:12.880
<v Speaker 1>he'd liked to he'd like to show things.

699
00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:15.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah. He was a very showbody individual if you

700
00:36:15.320 --> 00:36:18.920
<v Speaker 2>actually look at things. For example, when that girl what

701
00:36:19.039 --> 00:36:21.679
<v Speaker 2>was her name who saw the other girl hanging in

702
00:36:21.679 --> 00:36:28.199
<v Speaker 2>the barn, uh Lynn was Yeah, so what did he do?

703
00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:30.159
<v Speaker 2>He brought her in and showed her?

704
00:36:30.519 --> 00:36:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

705
00:36:31.119 --> 00:36:34.519
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like are you fucking kidding me? What's any murder

706
00:36:34.599 --> 00:36:37.639
<v Speaker 2>movie or anything? What's fucking rule number one, you don't

707
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:39.880
<v Speaker 2>tell anyone about it. What does he fucking do?

708
00:36:40.039 --> 00:36:41.920
<v Speaker 1>And he tells a lot of people, a lot of

709
00:36:41.960 --> 00:36:44.840
<v Speaker 1>weird shits, exactly, but it never seems to catch up

710
00:36:44.880 --> 00:36:45.920
<v Speaker 1>to him until now here.

711
00:36:46.079 --> 00:36:48.840
<v Speaker 2>So so like you say, it's about time.

712
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:52.000
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I am was distracted there because I realized I

713
00:36:52.079 --> 00:36:54.880
<v Speaker 1>got a name wrong, but it was so I said, okay,

714
00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.679
<v Speaker 1>I was going to say, as Scott move forward, but

715
00:36:56.679 --> 00:37:00.400
<v Speaker 1>it says Nathan move forward. With this information, he seemed

716
00:37:00.400 --> 00:37:02.960
<v Speaker 1>to doddle his eyes and cross his t's and a

717
00:37:03.000 --> 00:37:07.599
<v Speaker 1>search warrant was obtained. It also had been asked, so

718
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:10.480
<v Speaker 1>they had asked if a few members from Project even

719
00:37:10.559 --> 00:37:15.199
<v Speaker 1>Handed could attend the search with nath then saying yes.

720
00:37:15.400 --> 00:37:18.360
<v Speaker 2>Awesome, So can those eyes open when they're in there?

721
00:37:18.400 --> 00:37:22.880
<v Speaker 1>Then yeah, exactly So. In February fifth, two thousand and two,

722
00:37:23.280 --> 00:37:28.280
<v Speaker 1>officers rated the pig farm. In addition to several illegal

723
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:34.119
<v Speaker 1>and unregistered firearms, as expected, they also found numerous items

724
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:37.440
<v Speaker 1>connecting missing women to the property.

725
00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:40.840
<v Speaker 2>Numerous Yeah, who didn't see that coming, no shit.

726
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:47.119
<v Speaker 1>Robert was initially arrested on weapon charges and released on bail.

727
00:37:47.880 --> 00:37:51.000
<v Speaker 1>He was kept under surveillance, not permitted to return to

728
00:37:51.039 --> 00:37:54.880
<v Speaker 1>the pig farm while police conducted a thorough search under

729
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.880
<v Speaker 1>a second search warrant, using what they had seen on

730
00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.480
<v Speaker 1>the property to search the farm as part of the

731
00:38:00.519 --> 00:38:06.480
<v Speaker 1>BC Missing Women investigation. And it actually okay in the book,

732
00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:10.599
<v Speaker 1>like that book that I read, the police at first

733
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:13.400
<v Speaker 1>were like almost seemed like they were shocked at things

734
00:38:13.400 --> 00:38:16.880
<v Speaker 1>they were finding, Like they knew that there was a

735
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.519
<v Speaker 1>serial killer and stuff, but like what they walked into

736
00:38:19.599 --> 00:38:23.639
<v Speaker 1>it was just like a gold mine of like whoa,

737
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:26.679
<v Speaker 1>Like we got this guy, Like holy heck, like this

738
00:38:26.679 --> 00:38:28.119
<v Speaker 1>this is happening kind of thing.

739
00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean the reality hits though too right. It's like, yeah, okay,

740
00:38:31.599 --> 00:38:35.199
<v Speaker 2>there's a serial killer out there, but to actually be there,

741
00:38:35.519 --> 00:38:40.159
<v Speaker 2>see it, find it, and understand that this single person

742
00:38:40.280 --> 00:38:42.000
<v Speaker 2>is responsible for all.

743
00:38:41.840 --> 00:38:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Of this, the extent of it, the extent.

744
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:47.079
<v Speaker 2>That that's going to hit home, that's going to make

745
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.519
<v Speaker 2>anyone say fucking.

746
00:38:48.280 --> 00:38:51.400
<v Speaker 1>Whoa, yeah, like I think that they yeah, it was

747
00:38:51.440 --> 00:38:54.480
<v Speaker 1>just like holy. And then Nathan he was actually the

748
00:38:54.519 --> 00:39:01.320
<v Speaker 1>one that arrest like arrested Robert, Like this is really RCMP.

749
00:39:01.159 --> 00:39:03.679
<v Speaker 2>Like fucking good on Nathan, Like so I just.

750
00:39:03.599 --> 00:39:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Think that's so awesome. And he was back at the

751
00:39:06.400 --> 00:39:11.239
<v Speaker 1>police station and listening to like the police scanner and stuff,

752
00:39:11.280 --> 00:39:13.400
<v Speaker 1>because he was like, Oh my gosh, like, please, I

753
00:39:13.400 --> 00:39:16.840
<v Speaker 1>hope that they actually find these illegal weapons, right, like

754
00:39:16.920 --> 00:39:19.039
<v Speaker 1>I hoped, like this guy wasn't just setting me up

755
00:39:19.119 --> 00:39:21.639
<v Speaker 1>or something. And just like the relief that he had

756
00:39:21.679 --> 00:39:24.840
<v Speaker 1>when like he heard that they had found the guns

757
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:26.920
<v Speaker 1>and that they had also found all this other stuff

758
00:39:26.960 --> 00:39:29.639
<v Speaker 1>and wow, like you're right there and you're like, I'm

759
00:39:29.639 --> 00:39:30.400
<v Speaker 1>good at my job.

760
00:39:30.559 --> 00:39:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Fucking rookie of the year, no kidding.

761
00:39:33.719 --> 00:39:38.599
<v Speaker 1>So among the evidence they discovered were handcuffs, women's clothing

762
00:39:38.639 --> 00:39:43.519
<v Speaker 1>and shoes, jewelry, and asthma and hailer prescribed to Serena

763
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 1>abbots Way, who was one of the missing women being

764
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:51.280
<v Speaker 1>searched for DNA testing of blood found in the trailer

765
00:39:51.719 --> 00:39:54.800
<v Speaker 1>tested positive to be that of Mona Wilson, who was

766
00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:58.679
<v Speaker 1>last seen in November of two thousand and one. On

767
00:39:58.719 --> 00:40:02.599
<v Speaker 1>February twenty second, two thousand and two, Robert was re

768
00:40:02.840 --> 00:40:06.119
<v Speaker 1>arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder

769
00:40:06.400 --> 00:40:09.800
<v Speaker 1>in the desks of Serena abbot's Way and Mana Wilson.

770
00:40:10.039 --> 00:40:13.239
<v Speaker 1>Mona Wilson. There we go, this.

771
00:40:13.440 --> 00:40:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Fucker he's in handcuffs and he's in fucking jail, and

772
00:40:18.000 --> 00:40:18.800
<v Speaker 2>fuck this guy.

773
00:40:19.840 --> 00:40:21.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we'll just wait till you hear this, because this

774
00:40:21.920 --> 00:40:25.679
<v Speaker 1>is actually like it's not comical, but it's just like idiot,

775
00:40:26.159 --> 00:40:27.400
<v Speaker 1>like Jesus, like an idiot.

776
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.199
<v Speaker 2>Well, we already knew that part. We already knew he's

777
00:40:29.159 --> 00:40:30.159
<v Speaker 2>an idiot.

778
00:40:30.320 --> 00:40:33.920
<v Speaker 1>So while Robert was being held in jail, he shared

779
00:40:33.960 --> 00:40:38.000
<v Speaker 1>a cell with an undercover RCMP officer who he believed

780
00:40:38.039 --> 00:40:43.239
<v Speaker 1>to just be his cellmate. And like the idiot Robert is,

781
00:40:43.679 --> 00:40:46.519
<v Speaker 1>he did some confessing in his jail cell to that

782
00:40:46.719 --> 00:40:51.960
<v Speaker 1>cellmate as he sat there eating his nasty meal, Like

783
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:54.920
<v Speaker 1>anything this dude does is just nasty to me. He's

784
00:40:54.920 --> 00:40:59.519
<v Speaker 1>a nasty molful. He basically confessed to murdering forty nine

785
00:40:59.559 --> 00:41:03.880
<v Speaker 1>women and that he got sloppy and wanted one more

786
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:09.480
<v Speaker 1>to make it an even fifty. Disgusting. He also went

787
00:41:09.519 --> 00:41:13.280
<v Speaker 1>on to say he filled syringes with anti freeze and

788
00:41:13.320 --> 00:41:16.400
<v Speaker 1>when you inject this stuff, you're dead in about five

789
00:41:16.480 --> 00:41:17.480
<v Speaker 1>to ten minutes.

790
00:41:18.360 --> 00:41:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

791
00:41:19.039 --> 00:41:22.599
<v Speaker 1>When the undercover officer mentioned the ocean was a good

792
00:41:22.599 --> 00:41:26.440
<v Speaker 1>place to ditch bodies, he said he did better than that.

793
00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:33.239
<v Speaker 1>A rendering plant, which is a place that takes animal

794
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:38.440
<v Speaker 1>waste and basically converts it into other usable material. So

795
00:41:38.519 --> 00:41:41.320
<v Speaker 1>being that Robert was a pig farmer, he had access

796
00:41:41.360 --> 00:41:44.320
<v Speaker 1>to this type of plant and no red flags would

797
00:41:44.360 --> 00:41:48.360
<v Speaker 1>go about go off with Robert making regular deliveries there.

798
00:41:49.360 --> 00:41:55.360
<v Speaker 1>The rendering plant was also close to Vancouver's East Side,

799
00:41:55.599 --> 00:41:59.119
<v Speaker 1>so he would literally, like I just imagine, probably go

800
00:41:59.360 --> 00:42:06.719
<v Speaker 1>dump wasted body parts and pick up something someone new.

801
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:09.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, because he would he would like hide a

802
00:42:09.559 --> 00:42:12.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of it on like the bottom of the buckets. Yeah,

803
00:42:13.039 --> 00:42:16.079
<v Speaker 2>but yeah, it would be like bones, feet or whatever

804
00:42:16.199 --> 00:42:19.800
<v Speaker 2>from like animals, animal carcasses that you don't use, You

805
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.639
<v Speaker 2>just stow it in there and it'd be turned into

806
00:42:23.239 --> 00:42:26.559
<v Speaker 2>a lot of it I think was like cosmetics and stuff.

807
00:42:26.639 --> 00:42:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

808
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so that's where Yeah, so anyone living in British Columbia,

809
00:42:33.400 --> 00:42:37.159
<v Speaker 2>Canada in like late nineties early two thousands, remember those

810
00:42:37.199 --> 00:42:40.519
<v Speaker 2>like little chapstick things that all those little girls would have. Yeah,

811
00:42:40.599 --> 00:42:42.920
<v Speaker 2>probably potentially tainted.

812
00:42:44.599 --> 00:42:48.079
<v Speaker 1>Cool, but just see wait, and this actually just triggered

813
00:42:48.079 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 1>a memory to come back, because there will be at

814
00:42:50.639 --> 00:42:54.119
<v Speaker 1>times people picking up his waist and there would be

815
00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:58.199
<v Speaker 1>like people saying they notice chunks of meat in there

816
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:00.559
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, which was just like not normal or be

817
00:43:00.599 --> 00:43:04.760
<v Speaker 1>like charred. Yeah, but then this no one really there

818
00:43:04.880 --> 00:43:07.960
<v Speaker 1>just like did their job and like never really questioned anything,

819
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:16.360
<v Speaker 1>which is okay. Meanwhile, the Pink Farm began the became

820
00:43:16.480 --> 00:43:21.679
<v Speaker 1>the largest crime scene in Canadian history. During the early

821
00:43:21.760 --> 00:43:28.039
<v Speaker 1>days of EVA or excavations sorry, forensic anthropologists brought in

822
00:43:28.280 --> 00:43:33.079
<v Speaker 1>heavy equipment to shift sift through three hundred and eighty

823
00:43:33.119 --> 00:43:38.840
<v Speaker 1>seven thousand cubic yards of soil, including two fifty feet

824
00:43:39.320 --> 00:43:43.679
<v Speaker 1>fifty foot flat conveyor belts and soil shifters to find

825
00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:47.360
<v Speaker 1>traces of human remains. Like they had a lot of

826
00:43:47.400 --> 00:43:48.280
<v Speaker 1>soil to go through.

827
00:43:48.440 --> 00:43:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, they did.

828
00:43:50.119 --> 00:43:55.320
<v Speaker 1>This is absolutely nuts. Investigators took two hundred thousand DNA

829
00:43:55.400 --> 00:44:00.559
<v Speaker 1>samples and sees six hundred thousand exhibits. The cost of

830
00:44:00.599 --> 00:44:08.639
<v Speaker 1>the investigation was estimated at nearly seventy million dollars. Wow,

831
00:44:09.159 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 1>which I'm like, who the fuck paid for that? But

832
00:44:11.920 --> 00:44:15.000
<v Speaker 1>I think I know, and it's disgusting. Yeah, that is

833
00:44:15.039 --> 00:44:18.039
<v Speaker 1>a lot, the fact that that took, Like I mean,

834
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:20.480
<v Speaker 1>of course they needed to do that, oh yeah, but

835
00:44:20.559 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 1>it's like this freaking asshole costs people that much money? Like,

836
00:44:24.239 --> 00:44:25.000
<v Speaker 1>are you serious?

837
00:44:25.159 --> 00:44:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, it's like he cost lives and then he

838
00:44:28.159 --> 00:44:31.119
<v Speaker 2>made civilians pay for his repercussion.

839
00:44:31.360 --> 00:44:35.239
<v Speaker 1>That's just it's just mind blowing. Yeah, Okay, here I go.

840
00:44:35.360 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 1>Among the few items I already mentioned as being found,

841
00:44:39.800 --> 00:44:43.760
<v Speaker 1>they also found a partial jaw in an area Robert

842
00:44:43.960 --> 00:44:48.800
<v Speaker 1>fed his pigs, decomposing human remains in five gallon pails,

843
00:44:49.719 --> 00:44:54.679
<v Speaker 1>blood sloked clothing, vertically cut human heads within buckets in

844
00:44:54.719 --> 00:45:02.440
<v Speaker 1>the freezer, important documentation with victims' names, hands, feet's feet, dildos.

845
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:06.519
<v Speaker 1>One apparently being attached to a zero point twenty two

846
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:14.039
<v Speaker 1>caliber revolver, which I think it was a silence or

847
00:45:14.159 --> 00:45:16.360
<v Speaker 1>that's from what and I didn't like really dive in

848
00:45:16.400 --> 00:45:18.320
<v Speaker 1>super deep, but what I read it said that he

849
00:45:18.440 --> 00:45:20.079
<v Speaker 1>was using that as a silence.

850
00:45:19.960 --> 00:45:21.199
<v Speaker 2>Which is really fucked up.

851
00:45:22.320 --> 00:45:28.239
<v Speaker 1>More decomposing remains in a garbage bag, teeth, large amounts

852
00:45:28.480 --> 00:45:34.400
<v Speaker 1>of blood, and syringes filled with a blue liquid anti freeze.

853
00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:36.119
<v Speaker 2>Fuck.

854
00:45:36.639 --> 00:45:39.719
<v Speaker 1>And I could go on and on, but I figured

855
00:45:39.760 --> 00:45:44.119
<v Speaker 1>that was enough. He also was like terrible with like

856
00:45:44.239 --> 00:45:49.119
<v Speaker 1>animal cruelty. The pigs that he had, oh my gosh

857
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:52.039
<v Speaker 1>on his farm were like not taking care of well

858
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:56.679
<v Speaker 1>they were. It was awful, like just all like the lots.

859
00:45:56.880 --> 00:45:59.880
<v Speaker 1>I think one of them, it's aid, had a baby.

860
00:46:00.559 --> 00:46:04.239
<v Speaker 1>But then all these babies ended up sliding into mutter

861
00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:06.840
<v Speaker 1>something and died, and then the mom could barely walk.

862
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:09.239
<v Speaker 1>And it was just like most of them were just

863
00:46:09.440 --> 00:46:11.639
<v Speaker 1>they had to put a lot of them down because

864
00:46:11.679 --> 00:46:14.079
<v Speaker 1>they were just not He just didn't give a shit

865
00:46:14.119 --> 00:46:20.480
<v Speaker 1>about anything. And here's how the charges followed. On April second,

866
00:46:20.920 --> 00:46:26.280
<v Speaker 1>two more charges were added for the murders of Jacqueline McDonnell,

867
00:46:26.960 --> 00:46:31.880
<v Speaker 1>Diane Rock, and Heather bottom Lay. A sixth charge for

868
00:46:32.000 --> 00:46:36.239
<v Speaker 1>the murder of Andrea Josbury was laid on April ninth,

869
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:42.480
<v Speaker 1>followed shortly by a seventh for Brenda Wolf. On September twentieth,

870
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:47.400
<v Speaker 1>four more charges were added for the slayings of Georgina Pappen,

871
00:46:48.199 --> 00:46:56.280
<v Speaker 1>Patricia Johnson, Helen Hallmark, and Jennifer for Minger. Four more

872
00:46:56.360 --> 00:47:01.719
<v Speaker 1>charges for the murders of Helen Chinook, Yeah, Hulk, Sherry,

873
00:47:01.960 --> 00:47:05.519
<v Speaker 1>I've ivring. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing these names wrong.

874
00:47:05.559 --> 00:47:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I'm seriously trying, and Ignat Hall were laid on October third,

875
00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:16.320
<v Speaker 1>bringing the total to fifteen. On May twenty second, two

876
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:20.480
<v Speaker 1>thousand and five, twelve more charges were laid against picked

877
00:47:20.519 --> 00:47:27.239
<v Speaker 1>in for the killings of Kara Ellis, Andrea Boorhaven, Deborah

878
00:47:27.320 --> 00:47:36.239
<v Speaker 1>Lynn Jones, Marnie Frey, Tiffany Drew, Carrie Kolski, Sarah de Veres,

879
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:45.119
<v Speaker 1>Cynthia Felkicks, Angela Jardine, Wendy Crawford, Diana Melnik, and A

880
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:49.360
<v Speaker 1>Jane Joe, bringing the total number of first degree murder

881
00:47:49.440 --> 00:47:52.119
<v Speaker 1>charges to twenty seven.

882
00:47:53.199 --> 00:47:57.039
<v Speaker 2>And he openly admitted to a cellmate of forty nine.

883
00:47:57.440 --> 00:48:03.039
<v Speaker 1>Yep. So unfortunately they didn't get him for all of them,

884
00:48:03.079 --> 00:48:06.199
<v Speaker 1>like they couldn't find evidence that linked him to forty

885
00:48:06.280 --> 00:48:10.840
<v Speaker 1>nine cases. Now, before I move into talking about the trial,

886
00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:14.599
<v Speaker 1>something else noteworthy to mention is that on March tenth,

887
00:48:15.000 --> 00:48:20.519
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and four, doctor Perry Kendall, BC's senior health officer,

888
00:48:21.480 --> 00:48:24.760
<v Speaker 1>had an announcement to make and it goes as followed.

889
00:48:25.159 --> 00:48:26.360
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you remember this.

890
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:27.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't think I do remember this.

891
00:48:28.960 --> 00:48:33.159
<v Speaker 1>As a result of information we received from RCMP, we

892
00:48:33.360 --> 00:48:37.199
<v Speaker 1>have reason to believe there is a strong possibility that

893
00:48:37.239 --> 00:48:40.840
<v Speaker 1>some of the product from the Picton farm, and how

894
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:44.719
<v Speaker 1>much the RCMP do not know, may still be sitting

895
00:48:44.840 --> 00:48:50.639
<v Speaker 1>in people's freezers in the lower Mainland. Basically meat from

896
00:48:50.639 --> 00:48:53.920
<v Speaker 1>the farm could have been mixed with human flesh and

897
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:57.559
<v Speaker 1>sold to the public, the other claim being that human

898
00:48:57.639 --> 00:49:03.159
<v Speaker 1>remains were fed directly to the pigs. That's all I

899
00:49:03.239 --> 00:49:05.920
<v Speaker 1>want to mention about that. But doctor Kendall did say

900
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:09.519
<v Speaker 1>the health risk of eating this meat could be a

901
00:49:09.519 --> 00:49:14.000
<v Speaker 1>bacterial infection, but that was even unlikely unless someone ate

902
00:49:14.039 --> 00:49:18.559
<v Speaker 1>it raw and uncooked. The thing that concerns me the

903
00:49:18.599 --> 00:49:21.079
<v Speaker 1>most though with this announcement is like the pain and

904
00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 1>trauma it must have caused the victims loved ones like

905
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:27.719
<v Speaker 1>that is just gut wrenching.

906
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:31.239
<v Speaker 2>It's gut wrenching, and I do just want to point

907
00:49:31.239 --> 00:49:35.960
<v Speaker 2>out though, the potential of pict in just throwing the

908
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:40.760
<v Speaker 2>meat in grinders with with pork very slim.

909
00:49:41.000 --> 00:49:43.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't think that was really his full intention.

910
00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.880
<v Speaker 2>Well that's what people kind of blew it out to

911
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:49.559
<v Speaker 2>be and they did. Yeah, I mean there's a potential

912
00:49:49.599 --> 00:49:51.800
<v Speaker 2>that it did that, but it's not most likely he

913
00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:52.599
<v Speaker 2>could have with.

914
00:49:52.480 --> 00:49:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Some for sure, Like I don't think anyone like knows

915
00:49:54.920 --> 00:49:55.400
<v Speaker 1>for certain.

916
00:49:55.559 --> 00:50:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's probably just cross contamination as what it was.

917
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:05.440
<v Speaker 2>He probably used the equipment to dispose of people's remains,

918
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and I mean, we know he was not very clean,

919
00:50:10.480 --> 00:50:13.079
<v Speaker 2>and he probably just once he was done and then

920
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:16.159
<v Speaker 2>got onto butchering the pigs. Butchered the pigs with what

921
00:50:16.199 --> 00:50:16.760
<v Speaker 2>the same.

922
00:50:16.679 --> 00:50:19.400
<v Speaker 1>The exact same stuff, but then also the pigs consuming

923
00:50:19.960 --> 00:50:22.880
<v Speaker 1>because there was bones and stuff that too for well,

924
00:50:23.039 --> 00:50:25.639
<v Speaker 1>right that they had been like eating. And he even

925
00:50:25.719 --> 00:50:27.920
<v Speaker 1>said that he would feed things to the pigs.

926
00:50:28.079 --> 00:50:28.320
<v Speaker 2>YEP.

927
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:31.880
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know, I honestly actually feel like I

928
00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:35.760
<v Speaker 1>remember that happening being announced and just.

929
00:50:35.719 --> 00:50:39.440
<v Speaker 2>Like, yeah, no, I didn't realize what announcement you were

930
00:50:39.440 --> 00:50:41.880
<v Speaker 2>going off on, and yeah, I recall it too.

931
00:50:41.920 --> 00:50:44.440
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because like we live in the same province, so

932
00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:47.000
<v Speaker 1>it was kind of like, holy shit, but we're not

933
00:50:47.159 --> 00:50:48.199
<v Speaker 1>in the Lower Mainland.

934
00:50:48.320 --> 00:50:51.559
<v Speaker 2>But there's a lot of product that comes from down

935
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:53.920
<v Speaker 2>there that could shipped up here. There's a very real

936
00:50:54.000 --> 00:50:58.199
<v Speaker 2>possibility that our supply was their supply. So you and

937
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:05.199
<v Speaker 2>I could very well have been on Picton's fucking tainted

938
00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:06.760
<v Speaker 2>supply list.

939
00:51:07.079 --> 00:51:10.239
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I mean LOTSI Bombe SI could have been. Oh yeah,

940
00:51:10.920 --> 00:51:14.960
<v Speaker 1>so that is just it's unbelievable. It's literally unbelievable.

941
00:51:15.000 --> 00:51:16.280
<v Speaker 2>It makes my stomach fucking turn.

942
00:51:16.440 --> 00:51:20.599
<v Speaker 1>Noep, this guy is so disgusting. Okay, So moving on

943
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:24.639
<v Speaker 1>to the trial, although Robert had claimed to murder forty

944
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:28.559
<v Speaker 1>nine women, he was only charged with twenty seven and

945
00:51:28.719 --> 00:51:32.119
<v Speaker 1>later twenty six when one charge of the Jane Doe

946
00:51:32.239 --> 00:51:37.199
<v Speaker 1>victim was dismissed for lack of information. Robert would, however,

947
00:51:38.119 --> 00:51:41.199
<v Speaker 1>first be tried for six counts of first degree murder.

948
00:51:42.119 --> 00:51:45.679
<v Speaker 1>It was explained that the judge made the decision to

949
00:51:45.760 --> 00:51:49.280
<v Speaker 1>split the charges because doing all twenty six at once

950
00:51:49.440 --> 00:51:53.159
<v Speaker 1>would have put an unreasonable burden on the jury as

951
00:51:53.199 --> 00:51:56.239
<v Speaker 1>the trial could have lasted like upwards of two years.

952
00:51:57.079 --> 00:51:58.199
<v Speaker 2>That's fair, It.

953
00:51:58.079 --> 00:52:00.599
<v Speaker 1>Does seem fair. That would be a that would be insane.

954
00:52:02.039 --> 00:52:07.280
<v Speaker 1>So those six counts were for Serena Abbotsway, who disappeared

955
00:52:07.719 --> 00:52:09.960
<v Speaker 1>in August two thousand and one at the age of

956
00:52:10.039 --> 00:52:15.840
<v Speaker 1>twenty nine. Mona Lee Wilson at age twenty six, disappeared

957
00:52:15.840 --> 00:52:21.320
<v Speaker 1>in November two thousand and one. Andrea Joesbury was last

958
00:52:21.320 --> 00:52:24.599
<v Speaker 1>seen in June two thousand and one at age twenty two.

959
00:52:25.599 --> 00:52:29.480
<v Speaker 1>Brenda Ann Wolfe at age thirty two, was last seen

960
00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:34.559
<v Speaker 1>in February nineteen ninety nine. Marnie Lee Fray, twenty four

961
00:52:34.639 --> 00:52:38.679
<v Speaker 1>years old, was last seen in August nineteen ninety seven

962
00:52:38.920 --> 00:52:43.639
<v Speaker 1>and Georgina faith Pappen last seen in March nineteen ninety

963
00:52:43.719 --> 00:52:48.199
<v Speaker 1>nine and was thirty seven years old. On December ninth,

964
00:52:48.239 --> 00:52:51.639
<v Speaker 1>two thousand and seven, the jury returned a verdict that

965
00:52:51.760 --> 00:52:55.800
<v Speaker 1>Robert was found not guilty on six counts of first

966
00:52:55.800 --> 00:53:00.000
<v Speaker 1>degree murder, but was guilty on six counts of time

967
00:53:00.119 --> 00:53:04.400
<v Speaker 1>second degree murder. A second degree murder charge has a

968
00:53:04.440 --> 00:53:09.639
<v Speaker 1>punishment of a life sentence with no possibility of parole

969
00:53:10.039 --> 00:53:14.400
<v Speaker 1>for ten to twenty five years. The judge sentenced Robert

970
00:53:14.440 --> 00:53:18.280
<v Speaker 1>to a maximum with no possibility of parole for twenty

971
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:23.519
<v Speaker 1>five years, and those convictions were upheld by the Supreme

972
00:53:23.599 --> 00:53:29.280
<v Speaker 1>Court of Canada in two thy ten. After the trial,

973
00:53:29.760 --> 00:53:33.960
<v Speaker 1>British Columbia Crown prosecutors kept open for the possibility of

974
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:39.719
<v Speaker 1>trying Robert on the remaining twenty charges. However, on August fourth,

975
00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:44.719
<v Speaker 1>twenty ten, prosecutors announced they would not proceed on the

976
00:53:44.760 --> 00:53:49.599
<v Speaker 1>twenty charges. They said a second trial, even if further

977
00:53:49.679 --> 00:53:54.440
<v Speaker 1>convictions were achieved, would not add anything to Robert's punishment

978
00:53:54.639 --> 00:53:59.719
<v Speaker 1>because he had already received the maximum. So I feel

979
00:53:59.719 --> 00:54:03.119
<v Speaker 1>like a personally had mixed feelings about this, yeah, and

980
00:54:03.199 --> 00:54:07.119
<v Speaker 1>so did the families. It angered some of them as

981
00:54:07.159 --> 00:54:09.559
<v Speaker 1>they as I'm sure they felt that they weren't getting

982
00:54:09.559 --> 00:54:13.320
<v Speaker 1>the justes they wanted for their loved ones. Then others

983
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:17.119
<v Speaker 1>said they were relieved at being spared the experience of

984
00:54:17.159 --> 00:54:19.519
<v Speaker 1>another long and difficult trial.

985
00:54:20.000 --> 00:54:20.760
<v Speaker 2>That's fair too.

986
00:54:22.119 --> 00:54:24.280
<v Speaker 1>So I don't know. I just feel though, if there

987
00:54:24.400 --> 00:54:28.119
<v Speaker 1>is ever the chance that he is living after these

988
00:54:28.199 --> 00:54:33.239
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years, that if he was actually tried for

989
00:54:33.360 --> 00:54:36.360
<v Speaker 1>all of these I don't know, wouldn't that just make

990
00:54:36.440 --> 00:54:39.400
<v Speaker 1>it it better that he would stay in there ever longer?

991
00:54:39.800 --> 00:54:41.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you would think so, So I don't know.

992
00:54:42.199 --> 00:54:45.679
<v Speaker 1>But then also he already costs everyone so much money,

993
00:54:45.719 --> 00:54:48.320
<v Speaker 1>and that would cost a lot more. I don't know.

994
00:54:48.599 --> 00:54:51.280
<v Speaker 1>I just have super mixed feelings about it, I think,

995
00:54:51.360 --> 00:54:53.760
<v Speaker 1>But I do think it probably should have gone forward.

996
00:54:54.760 --> 00:54:57.519
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he's got the maximum already and there was

997
00:54:57.559 --> 00:55:00.559
<v Speaker 2>all these additional ones on top of it. Should add

998
00:55:01.519 --> 00:55:05.320
<v Speaker 2>something like what, there's just a cap I'm like, okay,

999
00:55:05.360 --> 00:55:08.119
<v Speaker 2>you get the maximum for X amount of people, any

1000
00:55:08.360 --> 00:55:10.360
<v Speaker 2>X amount of people you killed. After that, you just

1001
00:55:11.199 --> 00:55:12.199
<v Speaker 2>get away Scott for that.

1002
00:55:12.440 --> 00:55:14.400
<v Speaker 1>It seems really it does seem weird.

1003
00:55:14.800 --> 00:55:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Like like there's just no charge for those Like what

1004
00:55:19.320 --> 00:55:22.320
<v Speaker 2>I know, I know it.

1005
00:55:22.519 --> 00:55:25.599
<v Speaker 1>It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes

1006
00:55:25.639 --> 00:55:27.800
<v Speaker 1>it's parts of it make sense. But I do feel

1007
00:55:27.800 --> 00:55:29.840
<v Speaker 1>like they should have probably still just gone ahead with it.

1008
00:55:29.960 --> 00:55:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Well any other case that I've really ever heard they do,

1009
00:55:33.159 --> 00:55:35.320
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, they do. They It adds up. It's like,

1010
00:55:35.360 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 2>you get like three hundred and ten fucking years in jail.

1011
00:55:39.239 --> 00:55:41.199
<v Speaker 2>Why does he only get like twenty five?

1012
00:55:41.639 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 1>I know, because like what happens when he reaches that

1013
00:55:43.599 --> 00:55:46.639
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years if he's still alive, Like holy shit.

1014
00:55:46.880 --> 00:55:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Oh, like it would be a civil war in Canada with.

1015
00:55:50.480 --> 00:55:53.039
<v Speaker 1>Oh my gosh, there's like no way. I mean, I

1016
00:55:53.079 --> 00:55:54.320
<v Speaker 1>don't there's just no way.

1017
00:55:54.480 --> 00:55:59.079
<v Speaker 2>They're like I can't imagine. Oh, like it would.

1018
00:55:59.079 --> 00:56:01.079
<v Speaker 1>We haven't been done the math of this, Like when

1019
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:03.400
<v Speaker 1>was this dude born? Here? He was born in nineteen

1020
00:56:03.480 --> 00:56:04.039
<v Speaker 1>forty nine.

1021
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:05.480
<v Speaker 2>Are we mathing this right now?

1022
00:56:05.559 --> 00:56:09.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we can pause this for one second. Mathis okay.

1023
00:56:09.760 --> 00:56:13.840
<v Speaker 1>So Robert was basically fifty eight years old when he

1024
00:56:13.920 --> 00:56:17.159
<v Speaker 1>got like convicted, So twenty plus half years is like

1025
00:56:17.199 --> 00:56:19.920
<v Speaker 1>eighty three. So like there is like the possibility there

1026
00:56:19.920 --> 00:56:23.320
<v Speaker 1>there's a possibility alive, which is terrifying.

1027
00:56:23.320 --> 00:56:26.320
<v Speaker 2>If he ever fucking gets out of jail. Oh my god,

1028
00:56:26.559 --> 00:56:28.920
<v Speaker 2>shit is going to hit the fans. Oh yeah, I

1029
00:56:29.000 --> 00:56:32.360
<v Speaker 2>totally would because yeah, the rest of the people that

1030
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:35.000
<v Speaker 2>he could have been convicted for and he's just walking

1031
00:56:35.039 --> 00:56:36.280
<v Speaker 2>for you, Like what the fuck?

1032
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, because there's also the thing of like consecutive sentences. Yeah,

1033
00:56:41.920 --> 00:56:44.039
<v Speaker 1>but is that not for secondary I don't know, it's

1034
00:56:44.239 --> 00:56:46.519
<v Speaker 1>this whole thing. But anyway, he's not gonna get out.

1035
00:56:46.519 --> 00:56:48.039
<v Speaker 1>He's never going to get out. I just don't think

1036
00:56:48.039 --> 00:56:48.920
<v Speaker 1>he's ever going to get out.

1037
00:56:48.960 --> 00:56:49.679
<v Speaker 2>I really hope not.

1038
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:52.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay. One last thing to note, and I almost left

1039
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:55.119
<v Speaker 1>this out due to the length, but I think it's

1040
00:56:55.320 --> 00:56:58.960
<v Speaker 1>really important, and that is that In twenty ten, a

1041
00:56:59.000 --> 00:57:04.199
<v Speaker 1>provincial government inquiry was established to examine the Picton case

1042
00:57:04.320 --> 00:57:08.159
<v Speaker 1>and how it was handled by authorities. In December of

1043
00:57:08.239 --> 00:57:12.559
<v Speaker 1>twenty twelve, a final report was issued by the Missing

1044
00:57:12.599 --> 00:57:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Women Commission of Inquiry, titled Forsaken. Will put the link

1045
00:57:17.840 --> 00:57:21.000
<v Speaker 1>to the report in our show notes, but in short,

1046
00:57:21.679 --> 00:57:28.760
<v Speaker 1>it said blatant failures by police, including an empty criminal

1047
00:57:28.800 --> 00:57:35.880
<v Speaker 1>investigative work compounded by police and social prejusice against sex

1048
00:57:36.000 --> 00:57:40.400
<v Speaker 1>trade workers and indigenous women, had led to a trajectory

1049
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:47.880
<v Speaker 1>of epic proportions. The inquiry issued sixty three recommendations, including

1050
00:57:48.239 --> 00:57:52.199
<v Speaker 1>the creation of a greater Vancouver Regional Police Force to

1051
00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:57.760
<v Speaker 1>allow for more effective, less fragmented police cooperation. It also

1052
00:57:57.920 --> 00:58:01.840
<v Speaker 1>called for adequate funding for merchan selters for women in

1053
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:05.920
<v Speaker 1>the sex trade, and for a compensation for children of

1054
00:58:06.000 --> 00:58:10.800
<v Speaker 1>the missing women. Following the report, the Vancouver Police Department

1055
00:58:11.239 --> 00:58:18.360
<v Speaker 1>implemented several policies and changes to its missing person's investigations,

1056
00:58:19.039 --> 00:58:23.159
<v Speaker 1>including making the Missing Person's Unit a regular part of

1057
00:58:23.199 --> 00:58:28.880
<v Speaker 1>the police department and starting missing person investigations without delay,

1058
00:58:30.039 --> 00:58:33.480
<v Speaker 1>and also not closing them until the person was like

1059
00:58:33.559 --> 00:58:39.039
<v Speaker 1>found good and one very very very last mentioned because

1060
00:58:39.320 --> 00:58:42.440
<v Speaker 1>I didn't know where else put this, And I apologize

1061
00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:45.039
<v Speaker 1>ahead of time because it's going to make you very angry.

1062
00:58:46.480 --> 00:58:50.119
<v Speaker 1>But the clothes and rubber boots Robert had been wearing

1063
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:55.320
<v Speaker 1>the evening of Wendy's attack, the attack we started with, well,

1064
00:58:55.360 --> 00:58:58.320
<v Speaker 1>those were seized by police and left in an RCMP

1065
00:58:58.519 --> 00:59:02.320
<v Speaker 1>storage locker for more than seven years. In two thousand

1066
00:59:02.320 --> 00:59:06.079
<v Speaker 1>and four, they were tested for DNA, and two of

1067
00:59:06.119 --> 00:59:12.440
<v Speaker 1>the victims, Kara Ellis and Andrea Borhaven's DNA was found

1068
00:59:12.480 --> 00:59:16.599
<v Speaker 1>on them. Fuck and I had not heard that before,

1069
00:59:16.639 --> 00:59:17.119
<v Speaker 1>and I was.

1070
00:59:17.079 --> 00:59:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Like, oh, yeah, I haven't heard that before either. Shit,

1071
00:59:21.000 --> 00:59:22.519
<v Speaker 2>seven years they left it in the locker.

1072
00:59:23.079 --> 00:59:27.440
<v Speaker 1>They didn't test. They tested? Why I mean, I mean

1073
00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:29.880
<v Speaker 1>did they They just didn't think that they probably had to.

1074
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, in fact, they already had the DNA elsewhere.

1075
00:59:34.320 --> 00:59:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean I guess, yeah, but you could still probably

1076
00:59:36.960 --> 00:59:38.639
<v Speaker 2>fucking test that because it could have come up with

1077
00:59:38.880 --> 00:59:41.000
<v Speaker 2>other names, other individuals.

1078
00:59:41.239 --> 00:59:43.760
<v Speaker 1>I know, because even at one point when Robert was

1079
00:59:43.920 --> 00:59:45.960
<v Speaker 1>kind of like, they're eyeing them up a little bit,

1080
00:59:46.000 --> 00:59:47.440
<v Speaker 1>did they not be like, oh my gosh, like we

1081
00:59:47.480 --> 00:59:49.559
<v Speaker 1>have these boots. They have them?

1082
00:59:50.599 --> 00:59:51.440
<v Speaker 2>When did they have them?

1083
00:59:51.480 --> 00:59:55.920
<v Speaker 1>Sorry, well, they have them for like right after Wendy's thing.

1084
00:59:56.360 --> 00:59:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Oh after Wendy's.

1085
00:59:57.679 --> 01:00:00.400
<v Speaker 1>Wendy and Wendy was in nineteen ninety.

1086
01:00:00.400 --> 01:00:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh shit, I thought you meant like when he was

1087
01:00:02.880 --> 01:00:03.800
<v Speaker 2>actually arrested.

1088
01:00:03.800 --> 01:00:06.239
<v Speaker 1>But no, that was holy fun, like for the attack

1089
01:00:06.280 --> 01:00:09.719
<v Speaker 1>where the victims survived, right, wow, like how I started

1090
01:00:09.719 --> 01:00:14.239
<v Speaker 1>this episode. Yeah wow, yeah, like that almost is enough.

1091
01:00:14.400 --> 01:00:20.800
<v Speaker 2>Okay, Wow, that's fucking scary and dark and really fucking sad.

1092
01:00:20.880 --> 01:00:23.599
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for bringing that to my life. I'm scory,

1093
01:00:23.760 --> 01:00:24.599
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit.

1094
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:26.360
<v Speaker 1>You know I pretty much well yeah, I'm started and

1095
01:00:26.480 --> 01:00:30.480
<v Speaker 1>ended this podcast with Wendy, and that's a tough pill

1096
01:00:30.519 --> 01:00:31.400
<v Speaker 1>to swallow right there.

1097
01:00:31.559 --> 01:00:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Wow. Yeah, I've heard this case a few different times,

1098
01:00:34.559 --> 01:00:37.840
<v Speaker 2>a few different ways. I've never heard that piece of

1099
01:00:37.840 --> 01:00:38.559
<v Speaker 2>information before.

1100
01:00:38.639 --> 01:00:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, me, neither.

1101
01:00:39.599 --> 01:00:46.639
<v Speaker 2>Holy fuck, you're good. I'm good. So that's Robert Picton.

1102
01:00:46.679 --> 01:00:47.840
<v Speaker 1>Hey that's Robert Picton.

1103
01:00:47.960 --> 01:00:52.679
<v Speaker 2>Holy shit, Well, well done. Fuck Robert Picton.

1104
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:56.360
<v Speaker 1>He's a douche. Yeah, he is a nasty mofo.

1105
01:00:56.800 --> 01:00:59.199
<v Speaker 2>And I hope he never gets out of prison.

1106
01:00:59.440 --> 01:01:01.440
<v Speaker 1>No, he better or not he can't.

1107
01:01:01.639 --> 01:01:03.280
<v Speaker 2>I will fucking lose my shit.

1108
01:01:04.480 --> 01:01:09.599
<v Speaker 1>There would be what's that called, like when people start petitions? Yeah,

1109
01:01:09.599 --> 01:01:12.639
<v Speaker 1>a petition would un like that, I've seen that start.

1110
01:01:12.679 --> 01:01:14.559
<v Speaker 2>There would be more than petitions, would.

1111
01:01:14.360 --> 01:01:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Be a lot of things started.

1112
01:01:16.599 --> 01:01:22.039
<v Speaker 2>Robert Picton would have pickets outside his prison and petitions

1113
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:26.920
<v Speaker 2>for Picton's I'm trying to say stuff to start to peek,

1114
01:01:27.039 --> 01:01:28.599
<v Speaker 2>but I lost my train. Sorry.

1115
01:01:28.880 --> 01:01:32.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, anyway, thanks for listening. That was quite It's

1116
01:01:32.719 --> 01:01:33.840
<v Speaker 1>quite a doozy of a case.

1117
01:01:34.159 --> 01:01:35.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and well done.

1118
01:01:35.280 --> 01:01:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Here.

1119
01:01:35.559 --> 01:01:37.480
<v Speaker 2>We appreciate you guys being here. Of course, check out

1120
01:01:37.480 --> 01:01:40.159
<v Speaker 2>our social links down below. We've got Instagram, Facebook, all

1121
01:01:40.199 --> 01:01:43.119
<v Speaker 2>the good ones. Of course Patreon, we have merch as well.

1122
01:01:43.280 --> 01:01:46.119
<v Speaker 2>You can go check out our merch. Support us anyway,

1123
01:01:46.239 --> 01:01:48.840
<v Speaker 2>even just listening, We really appreciate it. It supports us

1124
01:01:48.840 --> 01:01:50.400
<v Speaker 2>and it means a lot, so thank you very much,

1125
01:01:50.480 --> 01:02:00.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you, and of course, as always, stay wicked.