Speaker 1: Parting the following podcast.
Speaker 2: Audience, Hey, what's up.
Speaker 1: My name's ben an Nicle and you're listening to Wicked
Speaker 1: and Graam.
Speaker 2: A true crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome, how's it going?
Speaker 2: Everyone? Welcome back to Wicked and Graham, the uh to
Speaker 2: crime podcast where we pretend to pronounce things correctly when
Speaker 2: really we can't.
Speaker 1: Actually, we're doing good.
Speaker 2: We're doing pretty good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this case has been okay because it's Canadian,
Speaker 1: so like there's some hard words in there, but I
Speaker 1: don't know how to brown them, like Coquitlam and Nanaimo.
Speaker 2: There we go, we got those down paths.
Speaker 1: Well, there you go.
Speaker 2: We've been to both those places, so.
Speaker 1: We know, we know, we know.
Speaker 2: What have we got to talk about today? Okay, I
Speaker 2: saw my first robin.
Speaker 1: Spring is in the air and it's a spring. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're a little bit mind.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure a lot of our listeners are a
Speaker 2: little more Southern than us, and they're like, it's been
Speaker 2: spring for like a month. What are you talking about.
Speaker 1: We still have a foot of snow on a still
Speaker 1: actually do snow. It's kind of depressing, but at this
Speaker 1: point it gets a little bit refreshing when it's like
Speaker 1: it's melting on a pretty steady level.
Speaker 2: It is. It's not going to last much longer. Given
Speaker 2: another two maybe three weeks, it'll all be gone. Other
Speaker 2: than a couple of snow piles here and there, you know, yes,
Speaker 2: but it's been the sun shining. It was warm. I
Speaker 2: was in a T shirt today.
Speaker 1: It was great, just the best. I didn't get outside
Speaker 1: really at all today. It was a little a little bit,
Speaker 1: a little bit depressing.
Speaker 2: Well, you were you were hunkered down in hunkering down.
Speaker 1: I had to at a deadline.
Speaker 2: How was tiny home life today? Hunkering down, researching and
Speaker 2: not leaving this like four hundred square foot building.
Speaker 1: That was okay, it was okay, it was all right,
Speaker 1: that's it. I survived.
Speaker 2: You survived. Yeah, well I'm glad. I'm not really glad
Speaker 2: you survived.
Speaker 1: It was good. The dogs were outside, so it was good.
Speaker 1: They weren't bothering me.
Speaker 2: No farts on the inside of the house. No, no,
Speaker 2: well that's good. It's a bonus.
Speaker 1: And it's your birthday on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Is it a saturday.
Speaker 1: You're turning thirty, right.
Speaker 2: I'm turning twenty nine. I'm turning twenty.
Speaker 1: You go that back that far no, I'm.
Speaker 2: Turning thirty four years old. Wow, you and I are
Speaker 2: the same age. You're pretty much like, give you six
Speaker 2: months and you'll be turning thirty four.
Speaker 1: I'm only thirty three.
Speaker 2: Well so am I right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Well I don't have my birthday on Saturday.
Speaker 2: Fair enough? And then after that, you you need to
Speaker 2: listen to everything I say, because I'm the wise old man.
Speaker 1: My goodness, Yeah, I gave you some sweet options and
Speaker 1: things we can do. When you chose pizza.
Speaker 2: And beer, pizza, beer and watch a movie at home, that's.
Speaker 1: Why you chose, and actually super chill.
Speaker 2: Okay, what do you guys do for your birthday? Because
Speaker 2: I know, like for me, there was this one point
Speaker 2: where it's like I just don't want to do parties
Speaker 2: and stuff anymore. I just want to just chill at
Speaker 2: home and I don't care if there's even big dinners
Speaker 2: or anything. I could do it without pizza and beer,
Speaker 2: like what.
Speaker 1: You wouldn't care if there was literally just like a
Speaker 1: normal day, like nothing, and it wasn't even acknowledged exactly
Speaker 1: what that. I don't allow that. I actually, I actually
Speaker 1: think birthdays are a very important thing because they are
Speaker 1: privileged day that are not grounted to some people. So
Speaker 1: I true think that birthday should be celebrated very much.
Speaker 2: So that's very true. But I think a lot of people,
Speaker 2: not all, but a lot of people in this world
Speaker 2: over celebrate their birthday. They think that, well, it is
Speaker 2: my day, everything should be for me. It's like, fuck off,
Speaker 2: You're not that special, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: It needs to acknowledged, and I think something needs a
Speaker 1: special it has to happen in my opinion for me.
Speaker 2: I mean, we live good enough life that I don't
Speaker 2: need a special day dedicated to me. You know, if
Speaker 2: if I want, I can go out and buy pizza
Speaker 2: any day I want and just be like, oh, special
Speaker 2: day for Ben.
Speaker 1: Oh can I cancel the chocolate covered oreos?
Speaker 2: Okay, you can't cancel those. That is my birthday cake
Speaker 2: in lieu of if you guys haven't had chocolate covered oreos,
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Oh. We have a friend that makes them, and they're
Speaker 1: so good. They're they're so good. Two dozen dude.
Speaker 2: She's even dusted them with like edible like gold powder
Speaker 2: before Yeah, like a mica powder, but it's edible. It
Speaker 2: looks fucking fancy and it's delicious. As shit.
Speaker 1: We'll have to post them. Oh, do something, We'll do something. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so we got some patrons to think we do Nicole's
Speaker 1: reading today. Well, I have a ton of names to
Speaker 1: pronounce in this case, so I was like, I'll add
Speaker 1: some more to it.
Speaker 2: There we go, we got it, you got it.
Speaker 1: Okay, where do we leave off? Okay, so we have
Speaker 1: Abigail Marie Smith, Samantha Dukes, Marissa Webb, Tammy Earle, Elizabeth Short,
Speaker 1: and Kelsey Austin.
Speaker 2: All awesome people who joined us O, thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Actually like easy enough names for me to pronounce, so
Speaker 1: hopefully I didn't fuck any of those up. But I
Speaker 1: don't think I did.
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's not that they're necessarily easier names.
Speaker 2: I think we're just getting better at this.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that could be it too.
Speaker 2: It's our awesome skill level of pronunciation going up in
Speaker 2: the world, I think.
Speaker 1: Okay, And I'm actually super proud of myself because I
Speaker 1: finished the Robert Picton case. You did, and I've literally
Speaker 1: been putting this case off for a whole year, so
Speaker 1: you know what, well done.
Speaker 2: Well, it's well done. Major pat of the back to you,
Speaker 2: because it is a major case that's been looming over us.
Speaker 2: It's one that from day one of the podcasts where like,
Speaker 2: we have to do this case. It's one that we've
Speaker 2: had people request time and time again, our most requested case,
Speaker 2: and it's it's deep, it's horrendous a lot, so well
Speaker 2: done for getting through this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, I definitely had to have a nice hot
Speaker 1: shower before this. So okay, And if you're just listening
Speaker 1: to this and you're like thinking, this is part one,
Speaker 1: it's not part one. This is part two, yo, So
Speaker 1: you got to go back and we listened to the
Speaker 1: last episode because it was part one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, hit Part one up and then part.
Speaker 1: Two and yeah, part one, I feel like was pretty mild.
Speaker 1: It was like mostly talking about Robert Picton's past is
Speaker 1: like upbringing basically kind of up to the point where
Speaker 1: shit really started going south. I guess. We talked about
Speaker 1: like Piggy Palace and how about the downtown Vancouver East
Speaker 1: Side and yeah, so.
Speaker 2: And some of the incidents that happened surrounding Picton's childhood
Speaker 2: that kind of potentially led him on this path very.
Speaker 1: Much so potentially could have led him on this path.
Speaker 1: So this this one is a bit more like the
Speaker 1: warning we put it the beginning is a bit more.
Speaker 2: Emphasis on it.
Speaker 1: Yes, I was like, what is the word? I don't
Speaker 1: even know how to say it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so trigger warning on this because it's a heavy case.
Speaker 1: It is very heavy. And yeah, we finished last episode
Speaker 1: with I was about to tell you about the story
Speaker 1: of Wendy Lynn Eyesetter. So now I'm going to share
Speaker 1: that story.
Speaker 2: All right, let's get the bull ball. Get the ball rolled? No,
Speaker 2: it was a ball. We'd be packing the bowl.
Speaker 1: I have no idea. Okay, you don't get.
Speaker 2: It because you don't smoke the marijuana, not that I
Speaker 2: do either. I also also, it's completely legal.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, I get it now. See my brain doesn't
Speaker 1: going there.
Speaker 2: You're too innocent.
Speaker 1: I know I am too innocent sometimes shit, okay, okay.
Speaker 1: So it was the evening of March twenty second, nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety seven. Robert had picked up Wendy Lynn Eyesetter from
Speaker 1: the downtown East Side. Wendy was thirty years old. She
Speaker 1: unfortunately was addicted to heroin and cocaine, an addiction that
Speaker 1: cost her two hundred dollars a day. Wow, thats just
Speaker 1: like some and I have another one in here where
Speaker 1: it's like how much someone spends. It's just like, whoa,
Speaker 1: that is a lot of money.
Speaker 2: That's a lot of money.
Speaker 1: It's a lot of money.
Speaker 2: I mean it's honestly, if you're spending that much, especially
Speaker 2: what year is this. This was like nineteen ninety seven,
Speaker 2: So yeah, spending two hundred dollars a day in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety seven, Yeah, that most people are going to end
Speaker 2: up on the streets because how are you gonna afflord
Speaker 2: that exactly?
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, sad, that's mind blowing.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: So she had two little kids who live with their father,
Speaker 1: and she tried to beat her addiction many times, but
Speaker 1: unfortunately was never successful. The evening Robert picked her up.
Speaker 1: She was particularly desperate to make money, and though she
Speaker 1: only charged forty dollars a blowjob, Robert had offered her
Speaker 1: one hundred dollars. You see, earlier that night she had
Speaker 1: hit up that can seek the casino and lost sixty dollars.
Speaker 1: She needed to earn that money back so her boyfriend
Speaker 1: slash pimp didn't find out. So she needed like, so
Speaker 1: that extra a little bit of money was like, would
Speaker 1: do it for her? Right?
Speaker 2: Well, and that's going to probably stop some a physical altercation.
Speaker 2: Most likely, so it's she was literally going to save
Speaker 2: her ass.
Speaker 1: She was in a rough position. Robert was offering to
Speaker 1: pay the extra money because he wanted to bring her
Speaker 1: back to his place in Port Coquitlam, which was a
Speaker 1: further distance than she would normally travel. When they got
Speaker 1: to Robert's house, she remembers thinking to herself, what a
Speaker 1: pig sty his place was. His bedroom had no bed,
Speaker 1: just a sleeping bag on the floor with a thick
Speaker 1: roll of clear pastick, And at first it was like,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, it's so dexter, but I think that
Speaker 1: the plastic was actually like for cushioning.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Most likely.
Speaker 1: Robert paid Wendy and they did their exchange. Once finished,
Speaker 1: Wendy needed to use the bathroom, where she attempted to
Speaker 1: injected herself with an equal mix of haro and cocaine,
Speaker 1: but unfortunately missed the vein in her leg and didn't
Speaker 1: get high. This may have been a blessing in disguise, though,
Speaker 1: because when she came out of the bathroom and was
Speaker 1: looking through the the phone book for a number, Robert
Speaker 1: approached her from behind. He began to caress her left
Speaker 1: hand before slipping a handcuff around her wrist. This triggered
Speaker 1: a fight reaction to occur inside her, and she began
Speaker 1: to punch, kick, and scream fucking good, like go, go go.
Speaker 2: I remember the first time I actually heard the story,
Speaker 2: and I was just like on the edge of my
Speaker 2: seat because holy fuck, I know, I can't imagine being
Speaker 2: in her shoes.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. She also remembered seeing a large butcher
Speaker 1: knife on the kitchen table, so she directed the fight
Speaker 1: towards the kitchen so she could grab the knife, unfortunately
Speaker 1: grabbing the sharp edge rather than the handle initially and
Speaker 1: cutting her hand quite badly. This did not stop her, though,
Speaker 1: and she started swinging the knife in Robert's direction and
Speaker 1: getting him in the throat. She searched for a way out,
Speaker 1: throwing whatever she could find in the direction of Robert.
Speaker 1: She blacked out at one point, waking up outside but
Speaker 1: still in mid fight with the knife in her hand
Speaker 1: frantically jabbing at Robert. Robert got the knife away from her,
Speaker 1: but then he himself lost consciousness. This was her opportunity
Speaker 1: to run, which she did to the closest neighbor's house,
Speaker 1: but no one was home. She then saw headlights approaching.
Speaker 1: Worried at first it could be Robert, so she hid,
Speaker 1: but noticed there was two people in the car, one
Speaker 1: being a woman. She waved the car down with it
Speaker 1: initially passing, but a few minutes later it came back.
Speaker 1: It was an elderly couple and they were appalled at
Speaker 1: what they were seeing, Like, could you imagine.
Speaker 2: Oh god, I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: Wendy was absolute covered blood. Apparently her guts were also
Speaker 1: spilling out of her stomach, and like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: I just think like this, that makes me sound like
Speaker 1: a terrible person. But I'm like so cautious, like just
Speaker 1: so cautious, and I would honestly have trouble stopping. But
Speaker 1: if I was like with you and it was just
Speaker 1: maybe like a single person like that. But then also,
Speaker 1: people do some really fucked up shit to get like
Speaker 1: people in situations sometimes yeah, you don't know, Like I
Speaker 1: hate to say it because yeah, you're right, it sounds terrible,
Speaker 1: but there's situations where.
Speaker 2: Someone could be flagging the vehicle down and faking a
Speaker 2: scenario like that to get you. Yeah, and that's unfortunately
Speaker 2: the world we live in today, which is horrible.
Speaker 1: I know, to actually have to think twice about helping
Speaker 1: someone because it's shit. But something I didn't even put
Speaker 1: in here is like she was holding the knife still
Speaker 1: and then the man was like, don't stab us kind
Speaker 1: of thing. But then she like dropped her knife right away,
Speaker 1: so I think he was like very clear that she
Speaker 1: just like needed help and wasn't actually going to harm them.
Speaker 1: But still, anyway, they got Wendy to the hospital, where
Speaker 1: it was initially not looking good for her. The doctors
Speaker 1: weren't sure if she was going to make it because
Speaker 1: they are working on Wendy though, another stab womb victim
Speaker 1: was brought to the hospital. Robert Robert fucking picked in
Speaker 1: Like that's screwed. He actually went to a different hospital initially,
Speaker 1: oh did he? And I bet you he did that himself,
Speaker 1: but then his of his wounds, he was transferred to
Speaker 1: this one that was more capable to deal with it.
Speaker 1: So within his belongings was a key, a key that
Speaker 1: just so happened to open the handcuff on Wendy's wrists. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like wtf.
Speaker 2: Right, Like that's that's a smoking, fucking gun right there.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.
Speaker 1: Wendy thankfully would recover and told the police everything. But
Speaker 1: she did leave out that Robert was paying for sex
Speaker 1: in hopes that she could keep the hundred dollars she earned.
Speaker 1: They told me, she's like that kind of breaks.
Speaker 2: My heart a little bit, Yeah, it is.
Speaker 1: Robert's version of the story was a little different. Basically
Speaker 1: that Wendy came out of the bathroom after injecting herself
Speaker 1: with drugs, saw that Robert had thirty four hundred dollars
Speaker 1: sitting on the kitchen table, demanded that she wanted her
Speaker 1: money up front, and started grabbing for the money when
Speaker 1: the fight broke out. So Robert basically was saying that
Speaker 1: he was protecting himself, and his story like, go fuck yourself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm sorry. It comes down to who are
Speaker 2: you going to believe? I mean, it's one person against
Speaker 2: one person. Where's the proof? Yeah, can't proof shit.
Speaker 1: So anyway, fastward a little bit. Robert was charged with
Speaker 1: attempted murder.
Speaker 2: Oh he was for this, oh shit.
Speaker 1: Assault with the weapon and forcible confinement. But he had money,
Speaker 1: and so he hired one of Vancouver's best known criminal lawyers,
Speaker 1: which hired a priv detective to get as much background
Speaker 1: info on Wendy as possible. And it's that's unclear if
Speaker 1: Wendy was aware that there was like a private detective
Speaker 1: on her, but she was terrified of Robert and rightfully so,
Speaker 1: and so she didn't show up in court, and therefore
Speaker 1: the judge dropped all the charges against Robert.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, okay, that's why I was like really
Speaker 2: confused at first. I was like, wait, there was charges,
Speaker 2: but no, that's right, Okay, now I remember. Yeah, fuck,
Speaker 2: and she has every right to be that fucking terrified
Speaker 2: of someone like that.
Speaker 1: Well, he's actually kind of like a pretty powerful guy.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean money gives you a lot of power,
Speaker 1: and he had a lot of money.
Speaker 2: Well, not only that, he's got a fucking bar that
Speaker 2: people like who roll with the Hell's Angels are chilling
Speaker 2: at all the time.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that would still be open at this point,
Speaker 1: I think, wouldn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he's he's got connections with some people you
Speaker 2: don't want to fuck with.
Speaker 1: Scary people. Actually, yeah, that's true. Oh my gosh, I
Speaker 1: just hate that position that she was put in.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And then like you say, the money as well
Speaker 2: to hire whoever or whatever. Fuck, that's scary.
Speaker 1: So it went into a lot of detail with Wendy's story,
Speaker 1: Unlike the majority of the other woman the other women,
Speaker 1: her story is known. She was a survivor of Robert
Speaker 1: Picton and the glimpse into her story may paint a
Speaker 1: picture of what some of these other women went through
Speaker 1: who suffered a different fate. Now, there are some other
Speaker 1: noteworthy incidents that happened that should also have gotten Robert
Speaker 1: caught and put behind bars, but they didn't. Of course,
Speaker 1: Gina Houston was a friend of Robert's and I have
Speaker 1: a friend in quotations quotations because she was more so
Speaker 1: using Robert. Gina was described as a con artist, thief,
Speaker 1: drug addict, sex worker, and on occasion madam of a
Speaker 1: busy brothel. But they did have a mutual business partnership,
Speaker 1: and that was that Robert would help her with money
Speaker 1: and food food and Gino would help him find and
Speaker 1: bring back women from the downtown Eastside back to the farm.
Speaker 1: She would also bring other people into Robert's life, one
Speaker 1: being Andrew Bellwood. When Robert Andrew met, they seemed to
Speaker 1: hit it off instantly. Andrew was described as a tall
Speaker 1: and lean as tall and lean with a preppy look
Speaker 1: to him, but a crack addict, with a criminal record
Speaker 1: and troubled past. He would sometimes spend up to five
Speaker 1: thousand dollars on cocaine for three to four day binges.
Speaker 1: Holy shit, Like that's so much.
Speaker 2: How can you survive through that? I know that's a
Speaker 2: lot in your system?
Speaker 1: Wow? Yeah, and yeah, that's I don't know, just the
Speaker 1: amount that these people are spending on drugs and stuff
Speaker 1: and they feel like the need and it's necessary for them,
Speaker 1: right like because they have this addiction.
Speaker 2: It's just it's it's horrible and like you, like we
Speaker 2: discussed already. This is in the nineties, this isn't today.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So inflation, Yeah, I know, I'm not even gonna
Speaker 1: look up that inflation and make us more upset.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So anyway, on one particular evening, Robert wanted Andrew to
Speaker 1: go get a sex worker with him. This didn't interest Andrew,
Speaker 1: so he refused, but Robert proceeded to tell him what
Speaker 1: he did to sex workers. He reached under his mattress,
Speaker 1: grabbing a set of handcuffs. Then he pulled out a
Speaker 1: belt and a wire. He told Andrew he would pick
Speaker 1: them up from the downtown east Side, drawing them in
Speaker 1: with drugs and money. He'd bring them to his farm,
Speaker 1: do them doggy style on his bed, which gave him
Speaker 1: the opportunity to be behind them. He then handcuffed them
Speaker 1: before moving on to strangle them. He'd tell them that
Speaker 1: everything was going to be all right, things are going
Speaker 1: to be okay. Now that's a good girl.
Speaker 2: Fuck what a sick, perverted fuck, it's just nasty.
Speaker 1: He told Andrew how much they would bleed. He'd take
Speaker 1: them out to the barn. He'd hang them, bleed them
Speaker 1: and gut them, and whatever the pigs didn't eat, he'd
Speaker 1: throw in a barrel to take to the waste plant. Fuck.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is where we get into the uh, well,
Speaker 2: the very famous parts of this story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of famous parts of the story.
Speaker 1: We're not quite there. Yeah, okay, But imagine being told
Speaker 1: something like that by someone like I just don't I
Speaker 1: think I would just be terrified.
Speaker 2: What would you do in that situation? Like, imagine you're
Speaker 2: in that situation. What would your reaction be? Well, obviously
Speaker 2: you have like an internal reaction, but how would you
Speaker 2: deal with that situation? Well, because you were alone with
Speaker 2: a murder er, now.
Speaker 1: You'd have to just fake that. It was like fine, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think to get yourself out of that situation. But
Speaker 1: then the thing is, like, I feel like I would
Speaker 1: go instantly and report that, which a lot of people
Speaker 1: don't end up doing. But that's because Robert then gets
Speaker 1: in their head and scares the shit out of them. So,
Speaker 1: like this next part, Robert clearly regretted telling Andrew this
Speaker 1: because days later he would accuse Andrew stealing tools from
Speaker 1: him and arrange for some guys to come and talk
Speaker 1: to him, which you know means he got the shit
Speaker 1: kicked out of him. Yeah, he was told he had
Speaker 1: twenty four hours to get the tools back to Robert
Speaker 1: or he'd be a dead man. The next day, Andrew
Speaker 1: would head to the ferry terminal, crossing the ocean to
Speaker 1: head home to his mother's house in Annaibo. He was
Speaker 1: treated in hospital for a broken nose, but never set
Speaker 1: foot on the picked and farm again and never reported
Speaker 1: the incident to the police.
Speaker 2: Fuck, that's scary.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like Robert has these people like right where
Speaker 1: he wants them.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, he's got influence over certain individuals that you
Speaker 2: don't want to be on the bad side of.
Speaker 1: And he feels confident enough to share this weird shit
Speaker 1: with everyone because he just thinks that he's going to
Speaker 1: keep getting away with it, and.
Speaker 2: It yes, because he at this point is getting away
Speaker 2: with it. He has all the power on his side
Speaker 2: anyone who he's talking to, and like they know he
Speaker 2: can get away with the shit.
Speaker 1: Yep. Now the next incident is so disturbing if this
Speaker 1: shit hasn't been disturbing enough, and involves an incident with
Speaker 1: Lynn Ellingson and what Lynn would see. Lynn was also
Speaker 1: introduced to Robert through Gina. They met when staying at
Speaker 1: a woman's shelter at the same time. Lynn was a
Speaker 1: single mother addicted to alcohol and cocaine and was at
Speaker 1: the shelter after breaking up with an abusive partner. And
Speaker 1: something I didn't even put in here is Robert also
Speaker 1: likes to feel like he's helping people too, Like he
Speaker 1: I literally thinks that he thought that he's like a
Speaker 1: good person sometimes and in how he was helping.
Speaker 2: People, probably because he's probably got this like mindset it's like, well,
Speaker 2: I'm doing a good thing because I'm gonna ye pay
Speaker 2: them to do this thing and I'm going to give
Speaker 2: them money, or he thinks.
Speaker 1: That he's like helping people with their addictions. And stuff like,
Speaker 1: it's just really messed up.
Speaker 2: He thinks he's a savior, but he's just a douche canoe.
Speaker 1: Yep. So the shelter Lynne was staying at only allowed
Speaker 1: for people to stay for a month at a time.
Speaker 1: Once Lynne's month was up, she initially moved in with
Speaker 1: a friend, but when that didn't work, in desperation, she
Speaker 1: needed somewhere else. When Gina suggested Robert's farm, she jumped,
Speaker 1: I know, what a bitch like she should know better,
Speaker 1: but well she knows exactly and she's helping Robert, right,
Speaker 1: and yeah.
Speaker 2: She knows what she's doing.
Speaker 1: She jumped at this. The farm always had work needing
Speaker 1: to be done. She didn't get a salary, but got
Speaker 1: money for food, drugs, and alcohol and a place to stay,
Speaker 1: so she felt it was a good exchange.
Speaker 2: So wait, wait, she wasn't getting paid for her work,
Speaker 2: but she was getting money.
Speaker 1: Well, she was getting like money for food, for drugs,
Speaker 1: four l alcohol. Okay, like he would supply those things
Speaker 1: to her.
Speaker 2: Gotcha, Yeah, I mean she was essentially getting paid them
Speaker 2: basically essentially.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like I mean, if you're getting your whole cost
Speaker 1: of living paid for that, I mean is that what
Speaker 1: our salaries going to?
Speaker 2: Basically?
Speaker 1: So, oh my gosh, my little light bulb just went off.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, on the evening of March twentieth, nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: Robert and Lynn were out for a drive, a drive
Speaker 1: to downtown Vancouver's oh, I said, downtown Okay, Vancouver's downtown
Speaker 1: east Side, There you go. Robert asked Lynn what she
Speaker 1: was going to do for the evening, in which she
Speaker 1: responded was to get high. Robert asked if it would
Speaker 1: be okay if she picked up a girl for the night.
Speaker 1: Lynn said it was fine. And I one hundred percent
Speaker 1: think Robert knew what he was doing here because when
Speaker 1: he found a girl he liked and asked her to
Speaker 1: come back to his place tonight. She looked to Lynn
Speaker 1: for reassurance. She asked her if she was going to
Speaker 1: be there and and said she lived there. So of
Speaker 1: course the woman felt comfortable to get in the car
Speaker 1: and go there. Because remember everyone down there was like
Speaker 1: kind of on edge because they were very much so
Speaker 1: aware that people were missing, and there was a serial
Speaker 1: killer on.
Speaker 2: The lips, and there was like an atmosphere where the
Speaker 2: girls were looking after each other sort of thing, right, So, fuck.
Speaker 1: So Lynn being in the car just like gave her.
Speaker 2: That confidence now that it's going to be affirmation.
Speaker 1: And also Lynn like had drugs on her lap, I
Speaker 1: think too, And so then this the sex worker wanted
Speaker 1: that as well, right, So Lynn and the woman smoked
Speaker 1: crack together for a bit before Robert was ready to
Speaker 1: take the woman to his room. Lynn would also go
Speaker 1: to her room and continue to do drugs. At some point,
Speaker 1: Lynn would hear a noise, a scream, she thought, which
Speaker 1: came from outside. She went to Robert's room, saw that
Speaker 1: it was empty, and then noticed a light on in
Speaker 1: the barn where Robert was where he normally does his butchering.
Speaker 1: Still hearing odd noises, she decided to walk over to
Speaker 1: the barn. When she got closer, she could smell something awful,
Speaker 1: and as she pushed open the barn door, that's when
Speaker 1: she saw She saw the woman's body hanging. She mostly
Speaker 1: remembers her legs and her painted nail polas, but she
Speaker 1: knew how she was hanging. It was the same way
Speaker 1: the pigs would hang after being slaughtered. Like, I just
Speaker 1: can't I can't even imagine walking into something like that.
Speaker 1: Holy shit. Robert noticed Lynne entered the barn, grabbed her
Speaker 1: and brought her closer to the whole situation, but she
Speaker 1: avoided looking around and remembers how sick she felt. Robert
Speaker 1: sang to her that it was okay, she's just like
Speaker 1: a pig anyways, it's all right, it's going to be
Speaker 1: all right.
Speaker 2: Fuck this fucking guy.
Speaker 1: The way that he talks about people just is disgusting.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, the way.
Speaker 1: He doesn't even give a shit, which is just mind blowing.
Speaker 2: No, he doesn't. And because like, not only the way
Speaker 2: that he treated this individual and has her fucking hanging
Speaker 2: like a pig, but how he's treating the next girl
Speaker 2: and it's just like doesn't give a shit about what
Speaker 2: she's thinking or anything.
Speaker 1: No. He continued which with his butchering until he threatened
Speaker 1: her not to say a word to anyone, or that
Speaker 1: she'd be next right next to the woman. She told
Speaker 1: him she wouldn't say a word and only wanted her
Speaker 1: dope and booze. He walked Lynn back to the trailer,
Speaker 1: where she packed her bag. Robert gave her some money,
Speaker 1: called a cab, and told her to call him tomorrow.
Speaker 1: It's unclear what Lynn's exact involvement with Robert was after
Speaker 1: what she witnessed, but the incident once again didn't get
Speaker 1: reported as Lynn feared Robert. I mean, he did threaten
Speaker 1: her and she was very much so dependent on him
Speaker 1: for money and drugs.
Speaker 2: Well, how much of an impact do you think it
Speaker 2: would make if if you're standing next to a half
Speaker 2: butchered individual with the perpetrator right there holding I'm assuming,
Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe a cleaver or a big old
Speaker 2: fucking butchering knife. If somebody everywhere basically and saying keep
Speaker 2: your mouth shut or it's you next.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I just think you just I would
Speaker 1: be so terrified. It'd be unbelievable. Now, and you were
Speaker 1: living with him, you know what kind of influence and
Speaker 1: shit this guy has.
Speaker 2: So Yeah, I mean, I don't think that's an excuse
Speaker 2: to not be reporting stuff after the fact that once
Speaker 2: you're safe, but I mean in that meantime.
Speaker 1: Fuck but to her, in her mind and stuff, Robert
Speaker 1: was the one making her safe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, prior to all I know is at the
Speaker 2: first moment I got I would literally be running down
Speaker 2: that fucking road.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I know, Oh my gosh, Oh okay,
Speaker 1: I just can't.
Speaker 2: Like I would not be sleeping that night. I'd be like, yeah,
Speaker 2: she probably didn't give me some weed and some booze
Speaker 2: or whatever drug it is, and you know, I probably,
Speaker 2: I mean maybe you'd need to do it to get
Speaker 2: your fix or the stress of the situation. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 2: i'd probably need a drink. Actually, no, I think of it.
Speaker 2: But then I wouldn't be sleeping. I'd be waiting for
Speaker 2: him to go to sleep, and I'd be playing it
Speaker 2: all cool, and then I'd be gone at like fucking
Speaker 2: one in the morning. I'm gone.
Speaker 1: Yeah, But then what if he went and like he
Speaker 1: spent all that time getting rid of all the eminence
Speaker 1: and shit. And then also like think about the because
Speaker 1: the police weren't taking people seriously, right that had like
Speaker 1: addictions or that were had like oh criminal past and stuff,
Speaker 1: so they might not even take her word.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's very much so true. But I'm just
Speaker 2: saying if it were me in that situation, I'd be
Speaker 2: high tening it like a little bit. Oh yeah, guaranteed,
Speaker 2: I'd be scooling down the road like this little piggy
Speaker 2: went home, would.
Speaker 1: Be running after you. Would Be's quite an interesting scene actually, okay. So,
Speaker 1: Also in nineteen ninety nine, Bill hit hischcocks who worked
Speaker 1: for the Pictons, would report to the police information he
Speaker 1: heard from YSA Lisa Yelts. Lisa, who I haven't mentioned yet,
Speaker 1: was best friends with Robert and best friends with him
Speaker 1: for some time and an actual best friend. Unlike Gina,
Speaker 1: she knew a lot of family secrets, though she didn't
Speaker 1: know about Robert's fascination with the downtown east Side anyway.
Speaker 1: Lisa had mentioned to Bill of seeing women's clothing items
Speaker 1: all over the place at Robert's, as well as purses
Speaker 1: and id IDs in his trailer.
Speaker 2: I do like ads of women behind.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Bill reported this to the police and what a
Speaker 1: strange character Robert was. And he said, with all the
Speaker 1: women going missing and the attempted murder charge of Wendy,
Speaker 1: he felt this quite a coincidence. Police attempted to question Lisa,
Speaker 1: but she had a strong distrust towards the police and
Speaker 1: so was not cooperative. Unfortunately, the police could not do
Speaker 1: anything with this information. This wasn't something they could obtain
Speaker 1: a search warrm for from. It was just verbal information
Speaker 1: reported by someone who was not directly a witness. Fuck yeah,
Speaker 1: now I wanted to go over some of the details
Speaker 1: of what exactly the police were doing in regards to
Speaker 1: this case. So, I mean, we've already kind of touched.
Speaker 1: It took them quite a while to do anything.
Speaker 2: Really like any sort of involvement. It took them a
Speaker 2: long time to get away.
Speaker 1: They were very much so denying that there was a
Speaker 1: serial killer really or anything going wrong. In nineteen ninety nine,
Speaker 1: the police department formed a working group called Project Amelia,
Speaker 1: which was looking at disappearances of forty women between the
Speaker 1: years of nineteen seventy one and nineteen. They had luck
Speaker 1: in locating some of the missing women on their list, actually,
Speaker 1: and very much so believed that a serial killer was
Speaker 1: at work.
Speaker 2: Well no shit, Yeah, it took them long.
Speaker 1: Enough, hey, but struggling with the old boys of the
Speaker 1: force who didn't seem to want to believe in new
Speaker 1: emerging methods of investigation. In two thousand, the project was stopped,
Speaker 1: with beliefs that the disappearances were going down and that
Speaker 1: they were stopped, but they hadn't stopped, so that the
Speaker 1: decision was made to put the officers on more important investigations.
Speaker 2: Now I'm curious at what I mean older new tactics like,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. I'm curious as to what it was
Speaker 2: that made them think that it was on a decline.
Speaker 1: It had slowed down. It had like there were some
Speaker 1: years where it was like thirteen or whatever, and then
Speaker 1: it went down and there was like a one year
Speaker 1: was like five and then that year where it stopped.
Speaker 1: There had only been one so far, so they were
Speaker 1: thinking that it was just like on the decline, so
Speaker 1: like wishful thinking almost, it seemed like.
Speaker 2: I mean even still they say, Okay, there is a
Speaker 2: possibility of there being a serial killer out there, and
Speaker 2: then all of a sudden, it's on a decline. That's
Speaker 2: pretty convenient. So what do you do, Oh, let's just
Speaker 2: ignore it.
Speaker 1: Well, bit and because like who cares if it was
Speaker 1: on a decline exactly? Still all these missing women exactly,
Speaker 1: they not feel like they needed to figure that out.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so they think, yeah, there's a serial killer,
Speaker 2: they start looking into it. Wouldn't it be convenient and
Speaker 2: normal for that to be a decline? Wouldn't that indicate that? Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're right, because now the serial killer is backing off
Speaker 2: with the investigations ensuing. Yeah, so clearly that is confirming
Speaker 2: their suspicions, because there was.
Speaker 1: Even times that they would be fat, they would follow
Speaker 1: picked in and stuff or Robert, but they always seemed
Speaker 1: like he knew right, and so then at those moments
Speaker 1: in time, like he wouldn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then so yeah, of course, whenever a serial
Speaker 2: killer you know, I don't know, stopped doing bad things,
Speaker 2: you just let them get away with it.
Speaker 1: Clearly, Yeah, holy, holy, Okay. In two thousand and one,
Speaker 1: Project Even Handed would take on missing files from Project Amelia.
Speaker 1: The team was a joint force, though it was a
Speaker 1: joint force of RCMP and Vancouver Police Department investigators, and
Speaker 1: the starting point was to acknowledge that the Vancouver Police
Speaker 1: Department had refused to accept that a serial killer was
Speaker 1: responsible for the disappearances. Good, so this one, like this,
Speaker 1: like seems when the shit legitly started.
Speaker 2: Here, it's when the foot was put down. It's like, okay,
Speaker 2: we need to do something. Yeah, And it took long enough.
Speaker 1: So instead of just investigating missing women, they were also
Speaker 1: looking at suspected men, which is what needed to be happening.
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 1: Robert was on that list and he was actually consider
Speaker 1: top priority. Dun Dun, dun But they needed some sort
Speaker 1: of lucky break, because you can't just like I think,
Speaker 1: you need proof and stuff to get in search warrants
Speaker 1: and stuff, right, So they needed some sort of lucky break,
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what they got. RCMP officer Nathan Wells
Speaker 1: was dispatched to a dispute between Scott Chubb and his
Speaker 1: common law wife, Tasha, who was separated with At the time, Nathan,
Speaker 1: the officer had been on the force for less than
Speaker 1: a year. Nathan de escalated the situation between Scott and
Speaker 1: Tasha by talking to Scott for some time. He also
Speaker 1: realized Scott maybe use a useful source to him at
Speaker 1: some point in time, so established a sort of friendship
Speaker 1: with him and left him with his number. Nathan would
Speaker 1: move into a new job within the Coquitlam's RCMP Drug
Speaker 1: section when Scott would give him a call suggesting that
Speaker 1: they should meet. You see, Scott had just lost his
Speaker 1: job and needed money for rent. So I was looking
Speaker 1: at providing Nathan with information in exchange for money.
Speaker 2: Gotcha.
Speaker 1: So I didn't even know, like that was a thing
Speaker 1: that people would go to the police to do.
Speaker 2: Anything.
Speaker 1: Do you have the information?
Speaker 2: I guess right?
Speaker 1: So long story short, Scott knew of a person with illegal,
Speaker 1: unregistered firearms in his possession, and that person was Robert
Speaker 1: picked In.
Speaker 2: See you said a moment or two ago that the
Speaker 2: RCMP needed a lucky break. This isn't a lucky break
Speaker 2: as far as I'm concerned, because Robert is flailing things
Speaker 2: like this around yea, and to a lot of individuals
Speaker 2: who are passing through his property.
Speaker 1: It's not about time.
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, it's not a lucky break. It's something was
Speaker 2: going to catch up to him. Eventually, something had to give,
Speaker 2: and I think he got away with it far longer
Speaker 2: than he should.
Speaker 1: Have, way too fucking long.
Speaker 2: So yeah, like you said, it was about time.
Speaker 1: Well even with these got these guns, like apparently he
Speaker 1: had even like let Scott borel them and stuff like
Speaker 1: he'd liked to he'd like to show things.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. He was a very showbody individual if you
Speaker 2: actually look at things. For example, when that girl what
Speaker 2: was her name who saw the other girl hanging in
Speaker 2: the barn, uh Lynn was Yeah, so what did he do?
Speaker 2: He brought her in and showed her?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like are you fucking kidding me? What's any murder
Speaker 2: movie or anything? What's fucking rule number one, you don't
Speaker 2: tell anyone about it. What does he fucking do?
Speaker 1: And he tells a lot of people, a lot of
Speaker 1: weird shits, exactly, but it never seems to catch up
Speaker 1: to him until now here.
Speaker 2: So so like you say, it's about time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I am was distracted there because I realized I
Speaker 1: got a name wrong, but it was so I said, okay,
Speaker 1: I was going to say, as Scott move forward, but
Speaker 1: it says Nathan move forward. With this information, he seemed
Speaker 1: to doddle his eyes and cross his t's and a
Speaker 1: search warrant was obtained. It also had been asked, so
Speaker 1: they had asked if a few members from Project even
Speaker 1: Handed could attend the search with nath then saying yes.
Speaker 2: Awesome, So can those eyes open when they're in there?
Speaker 1: Then yeah, exactly So. In February fifth, two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: officers rated the pig farm. In addition to several illegal
Speaker 1: and unregistered firearms, as expected, they also found numerous items
Speaker 1: connecting missing women to the property.
Speaker 2: Numerous Yeah, who didn't see that coming, no shit.
Speaker 1: Robert was initially arrested on weapon charges and released on bail.
Speaker 1: He was kept under surveillance, not permitted to return to
Speaker 1: the pig farm while police conducted a thorough search under
Speaker 1: a second search warrant, using what they had seen on
Speaker 1: the property to search the farm as part of the
Speaker 1: BC Missing Women investigation. And it actually okay in the book,
Speaker 1: like that book that I read, the police at first
Speaker 1: were like almost seemed like they were shocked at things
Speaker 1: they were finding, Like they knew that there was a
Speaker 1: serial killer and stuff, but like what they walked into
Speaker 1: it was just like a gold mine of like whoa,
Speaker 1: Like we got this guy, Like holy heck, like this
Speaker 1: this is happening kind of thing.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean the reality hits though too right. It's like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: there's a serial killer out there, but to actually be there,
Speaker 2: see it, find it, and understand that this single person
Speaker 2: is responsible for all.
Speaker 1: Of this, the extent of it, the extent.
Speaker 2: That that's going to hit home, that's going to make
Speaker 2: anyone say fucking.
Speaker 1: Whoa, yeah, like I think that they yeah, it was
Speaker 1: just like holy. And then Nathan he was actually the
Speaker 1: one that arrest like arrested Robert, Like this is really RCMP.
Speaker 2: Like fucking good on Nathan, Like so I just.
Speaker 1: Think that's so awesome. And he was back at the
Speaker 1: police station and listening to like the police scanner and stuff,
Speaker 1: because he was like, Oh my gosh, like, please, I
Speaker 1: hope that they actually find these illegal weapons, right, like
Speaker 1: I hoped, like this guy wasn't just setting me up
Speaker 1: or something. And just like the relief that he had
Speaker 1: when like he heard that they had found the guns
Speaker 1: and that they had also found all this other stuff
Speaker 1: and wow, like you're right there and you're like, I'm
Speaker 1: good at my job.
Speaker 2: Fucking rookie of the year, no kidding.
Speaker 1: So among the evidence they discovered were handcuffs, women's clothing
Speaker 1: and shoes, jewelry, and asthma and hailer prescribed to Serena
Speaker 1: abbots Way, who was one of the missing women being
Speaker 1: searched for DNA testing of blood found in the trailer
Speaker 1: tested positive to be that of Mona Wilson, who was
Speaker 1: last seen in November of two thousand and one. On
Speaker 1: February twenty second, two thousand and two, Robert was re
Speaker 1: arrested and charged with two counts of first degree murder
Speaker 1: in the desks of Serena abbot's Way and Mana Wilson.
Speaker 1: Mona Wilson. There we go, this.
Speaker 2: Fucker he's in handcuffs and he's in fucking jail, and
Speaker 2: fuck this guy.
Speaker 1: Okay, we'll just wait till you hear this, because this
Speaker 1: is actually like it's not comical, but it's just like idiot,
Speaker 1: like Jesus, like an idiot.
Speaker 2: Well, we already knew that part. We already knew he's
Speaker 2: an idiot.
Speaker 1: So while Robert was being held in jail, he shared
Speaker 1: a cell with an undercover RCMP officer who he believed
Speaker 1: to just be his cellmate. And like the idiot Robert is,
Speaker 1: he did some confessing in his jail cell to that
Speaker 1: cellmate as he sat there eating his nasty meal, Like
Speaker 1: anything this dude does is just nasty to me. He's
Speaker 1: a nasty molful. He basically confessed to murdering forty nine
Speaker 1: women and that he got sloppy and wanted one more
Speaker 1: to make it an even fifty. Disgusting. He also went
Speaker 1: on to say he filled syringes with anti freeze and
Speaker 1: when you inject this stuff, you're dead in about five
Speaker 1: to ten minutes.
Speaker 2: Fuck.
Speaker 1: When the undercover officer mentioned the ocean was a good
Speaker 1: place to ditch bodies, he said he did better than that.
Speaker 1: A rendering plant, which is a place that takes animal
Speaker 1: waste and basically converts it into other usable material. So
Speaker 1: being that Robert was a pig farmer, he had access
Speaker 1: to this type of plant and no red flags would
Speaker 1: go about go off with Robert making regular deliveries there.
Speaker 1: The rendering plant was also close to Vancouver's East Side,
Speaker 1: so he would literally, like I just imagine, probably go
Speaker 1: dump wasted body parts and pick up something someone new.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, because he would he would like hide a
Speaker 2: lot of it on like the bottom of the buckets. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it would be like bones, feet or whatever
Speaker 2: from like animals, animal carcasses that you don't use, You
Speaker 2: just stow it in there and it'd be turned into
Speaker 2: a lot of it I think was like cosmetics and stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's where Yeah, so anyone living in British Columbia,
Speaker 2: Canada in like late nineties early two thousands, remember those
Speaker 2: like little chapstick things that all those little girls would have. Yeah,
Speaker 2: probably potentially tainted.
Speaker 1: Cool, but just see wait, and this actually just triggered
Speaker 1: a memory to come back, because there will be at
Speaker 1: times people picking up his waist and there would be
Speaker 1: like people saying they notice chunks of meat in there
Speaker 1: and stuff, which was just like not normal or be
Speaker 1: like charred. Yeah, but then this no one really there
Speaker 1: just like did their job and like never really questioned anything,
Speaker 1: which is okay. Meanwhile, the Pink Farm began the became
Speaker 1: the largest crime scene in Canadian history. During the early
Speaker 1: days of EVA or excavations sorry, forensic anthropologists brought in
Speaker 1: heavy equipment to shift sift through three hundred and eighty
Speaker 1: seven thousand cubic yards of soil, including two fifty feet
Speaker 1: fifty foot flat conveyor belts and soil shifters to find
Speaker 1: traces of human remains. Like they had a lot of
Speaker 1: soil to go through.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, they did.
Speaker 1: This is absolutely nuts. Investigators took two hundred thousand DNA
Speaker 1: samples and sees six hundred thousand exhibits. The cost of
Speaker 1: the investigation was estimated at nearly seventy million dollars. Wow,
Speaker 1: which I'm like, who the fuck paid for that? But
Speaker 1: I think I know, and it's disgusting. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: a lot, the fact that that took, Like I mean,
Speaker 1: of course they needed to do that, oh yeah, but
Speaker 1: it's like this freaking asshole costs people that much money? Like,
Speaker 1: are you serious?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's like he cost lives and then he
Speaker 2: made civilians pay for his repercussion.
Speaker 1: That's just it's just mind blowing. Yeah, Okay, here I go.
Speaker 1: Among the few items I already mentioned as being found,
Speaker 1: they also found a partial jaw in an area Robert
Speaker 1: fed his pigs, decomposing human remains in five gallon pails,
Speaker 1: blood sloked clothing, vertically cut human heads within buckets in
Speaker 1: the freezer, important documentation with victims' names, hands, feet's feet, dildos.
Speaker 1: One apparently being attached to a zero point twenty two
Speaker 1: caliber revolver, which I think it was a silence or
Speaker 1: that's from what and I didn't like really dive in
Speaker 1: super deep, but what I read it said that he
Speaker 1: was using that as a silence.
Speaker 2: Which is really fucked up.
Speaker 1: More decomposing remains in a garbage bag, teeth, large amounts
Speaker 1: of blood, and syringes filled with a blue liquid anti freeze.
Speaker 2: Fuck.
Speaker 1: And I could go on and on, but I figured
Speaker 1: that was enough. He also was like terrible with like
Speaker 1: animal cruelty. The pigs that he had, oh my gosh
Speaker 1: on his farm were like not taking care of well
Speaker 1: they were. It was awful, like just all like the lots.
Speaker 1: I think one of them, it's aid, had a baby.
Speaker 1: But then all these babies ended up sliding into mutter
Speaker 1: something and died, and then the mom could barely walk.
Speaker 1: And it was just like most of them were just
Speaker 1: they had to put a lot of them down because
Speaker 1: they were just not He just didn't give a shit
Speaker 1: about anything. And here's how the charges followed. On April second,
Speaker 1: two more charges were added for the murders of Jacqueline McDonnell,
Speaker 1: Diane Rock, and Heather bottom Lay. A sixth charge for
Speaker 1: the murder of Andrea Josbury was laid on April ninth,
Speaker 1: followed shortly by a seventh for Brenda Wolf. On September twentieth,
Speaker 1: four more charges were added for the slayings of Georgina Pappen,
Speaker 1: Patricia Johnson, Helen Hallmark, and Jennifer for Minger. Four more
Speaker 1: charges for the murders of Helen Chinook, Yeah, Hulk, Sherry,
Speaker 1: I've ivring. I'm sorry if I'm pronouncing these names wrong.
Speaker 1: I'm seriously trying, and Ignat Hall were laid on October third,
Speaker 1: bringing the total to fifteen. On May twenty second, two
Speaker 1: thousand and five, twelve more charges were laid against picked
Speaker 1: in for the killings of Kara Ellis, Andrea Boorhaven, Deborah
Speaker 1: Lynn Jones, Marnie Frey, Tiffany Drew, Carrie Kolski, Sarah de Veres,
Speaker 1: Cynthia Felkicks, Angela Jardine, Wendy Crawford, Diana Melnik, and A
Speaker 1: Jane Joe, bringing the total number of first degree murder
Speaker 1: charges to twenty seven.
Speaker 2: And he openly admitted to a cellmate of forty nine.
Speaker 1: Yep. So unfortunately they didn't get him for all of them,
Speaker 1: like they couldn't find evidence that linked him to forty
Speaker 1: nine cases. Now, before I move into talking about the trial,
Speaker 1: something else noteworthy to mention is that on March tenth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and four, doctor Perry Kendall, BC's senior health officer,
Speaker 1: had an announcement to make and it goes as followed.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you remember this.
Speaker 2: I don't think I do remember this.
Speaker 1: As a result of information we received from RCMP, we
Speaker 1: have reason to believe there is a strong possibility that
Speaker 1: some of the product from the Picton farm, and how
Speaker 1: much the RCMP do not know, may still be sitting
Speaker 1: in people's freezers in the lower Mainland. Basically meat from
Speaker 1: the farm could have been mixed with human flesh and
Speaker 1: sold to the public, the other claim being that human
Speaker 1: remains were fed directly to the pigs. That's all I
Speaker 1: want to mention about that. But doctor Kendall did say
Speaker 1: the health risk of eating this meat could be a
Speaker 1: bacterial infection, but that was even unlikely unless someone ate
Speaker 1: it raw and uncooked. The thing that concerns me the
Speaker 1: most though with this announcement is like the pain and
Speaker 1: trauma it must have caused the victims loved ones like
Speaker 1: that is just gut wrenching.
Speaker 2: It's gut wrenching, and I do just want to point
Speaker 2: out though, the potential of pict in just throwing the
Speaker 2: meat in grinders with with pork very slim.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't think that was really his full intention.
Speaker 2: Well that's what people kind of blew it out to
Speaker 2: be and they did. Yeah, I mean there's a potential
Speaker 2: that it did that, but it's not most likely he
Speaker 2: could have with.
Speaker 1: Some for sure, Like I don't think anyone like knows
Speaker 1: for certain.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably just cross contamination as what it was.
Speaker 2: He probably used the equipment to dispose of people's remains,
Speaker 2: and I mean, we know he was not very clean,
Speaker 2: and he probably just once he was done and then
Speaker 2: got onto butchering the pigs. Butchered the pigs with what
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: The exact same stuff, but then also the pigs consuming
Speaker 1: because there was bones and stuff that too for well,
Speaker 1: right that they had been like eating. And he even
Speaker 1: said that he would feed things to the pigs.
Speaker 2: YEP.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I honestly actually feel like I
Speaker 1: remember that happening being announced and just.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, no, I didn't realize what announcement you were
Speaker 2: going off on, and yeah, I recall it too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like we live in the same province, so
Speaker 1: it was kind of like, holy shit, but we're not
Speaker 1: in the Lower Mainland.
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of product that comes from down
Speaker 2: there that could shipped up here. There's a very real
Speaker 2: possibility that our supply was their supply. So you and
Speaker 2: I could very well have been on Picton's fucking tainted
Speaker 2: supply list.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean LOTSI Bombe SI could have been. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: so that is just it's unbelievable. It's literally unbelievable.
Speaker 2: It makes my stomach fucking turn.
Speaker 1: Noep, this guy is so disgusting. Okay, So moving on
Speaker 1: to the trial, although Robert had claimed to murder forty
Speaker 1: nine women, he was only charged with twenty seven and
Speaker 1: later twenty six when one charge of the Jane Doe
Speaker 1: victim was dismissed for lack of information. Robert would, however,
Speaker 1: first be tried for six counts of first degree murder.
Speaker 1: It was explained that the judge made the decision to
Speaker 1: split the charges because doing all twenty six at once
Speaker 1: would have put an unreasonable burden on the jury as
Speaker 1: the trial could have lasted like upwards of two years.
Speaker 2: That's fair, It.
Speaker 1: Does seem fair. That would be a that would be insane.
Speaker 1: So those six counts were for Serena Abbotsway, who disappeared
Speaker 1: in August two thousand and one at the age of
Speaker 1: twenty nine. Mona Lee Wilson at age twenty six, disappeared
Speaker 1: in November two thousand and one. Andrea Joesbury was last
Speaker 1: seen in June two thousand and one at age twenty two.
Speaker 1: Brenda Ann Wolfe at age thirty two, was last seen
Speaker 1: in February nineteen ninety nine. Marnie Lee Fray, twenty four
Speaker 1: years old, was last seen in August nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 1: and Georgina faith Pappen last seen in March nineteen ninety
Speaker 1: nine and was thirty seven years old. On December ninth,
Speaker 1: two thousand and seven, the jury returned a verdict that
Speaker 1: Robert was found not guilty on six counts of first
Speaker 1: degree murder, but was guilty on six counts of time
Speaker 1: second degree murder. A second degree murder charge has a
Speaker 1: punishment of a life sentence with no possibility of parole
Speaker 1: for ten to twenty five years. The judge sentenced Robert
Speaker 1: to a maximum with no possibility of parole for twenty
Speaker 1: five years, and those convictions were upheld by the Supreme
Speaker 1: Court of Canada in two thy ten. After the trial,
Speaker 1: British Columbia Crown prosecutors kept open for the possibility of
Speaker 1: trying Robert on the remaining twenty charges. However, on August fourth,
Speaker 1: twenty ten, prosecutors announced they would not proceed on the
Speaker 1: twenty charges. They said a second trial, even if further
Speaker 1: convictions were achieved, would not add anything to Robert's punishment
Speaker 1: because he had already received the maximum. So I feel
Speaker 1: like a personally had mixed feelings about this, yeah, and
Speaker 1: so did the families. It angered some of them as
Speaker 1: they as I'm sure they felt that they weren't getting
Speaker 1: the justes they wanted for their loved ones. Then others
Speaker 1: said they were relieved at being spared the experience of
Speaker 1: another long and difficult trial.
Speaker 2: That's fair too.
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I just feel though, if there
Speaker 1: is ever the chance that he is living after these
Speaker 1: twenty five years, that if he was actually tried for
Speaker 1: all of these I don't know, wouldn't that just make
Speaker 1: it it better that he would stay in there ever longer?
Speaker 2: Yeah, you would think so, So I don't know.
Speaker 1: But then also he already costs everyone so much money,
Speaker 1: and that would cost a lot more. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I just have super mixed feelings about it, I think,
Speaker 1: But I do think it probably should have gone forward.
Speaker 2: I mean, he's got the maximum already and there was
Speaker 2: all these additional ones on top of it. Should add
Speaker 2: something like what, there's just a cap I'm like, okay,
Speaker 2: you get the maximum for X amount of people, any
Speaker 2: X amount of people you killed. After that, you just
Speaker 2: get away Scott for that.
Speaker 1: It seems really it does seem weird.
Speaker 2: Like like there's just no charge for those Like what
Speaker 2: I know, I know it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make a lot of sense, but it makes
Speaker 1: it's parts of it make sense. But I do feel
Speaker 1: like they should have probably still just gone ahead with it.
Speaker 2: Well any other case that I've really ever heard they do,
Speaker 2: But yeah, they do. They It adds up. It's like,
Speaker 2: you get like three hundred and ten fucking years in jail.
Speaker 2: Why does he only get like twenty five?
Speaker 1: I know, because like what happens when he reaches that
Speaker 1: twenty five years if he's still alive, Like holy shit.
Speaker 2: Oh, like it would be a civil war in Canada with.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, there's like no way. I mean, I
Speaker 1: don't there's just no way.
Speaker 2: They're like I can't imagine. Oh, like it would.
Speaker 1: We haven't been done the math of this, Like when
Speaker 1: was this dude born? Here? He was born in nineteen
Speaker 1: forty nine.
Speaker 2: Are we mathing this right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, we can pause this for one second. Mathis okay.
Speaker 1: So Robert was basically fifty eight years old when he
Speaker 1: got like convicted, So twenty plus half years is like
Speaker 1: eighty three. So like there is like the possibility there
Speaker 1: there's a possibility alive, which is terrifying.
Speaker 2: If he ever fucking gets out of jail. Oh my god,
Speaker 2: shit is going to hit the fans. Oh yeah, I
Speaker 2: totally would because yeah, the rest of the people that
Speaker 2: he could have been convicted for and he's just walking
Speaker 2: for you, Like what the fuck?
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's also the thing of like consecutive sentences. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but is that not for secondary I don't know, it's
Speaker 1: this whole thing. But anyway, he's not gonna get out.
Speaker 1: He's never going to get out. I just don't think
Speaker 1: he's ever going to get out.
Speaker 2: I really hope not.
Speaker 1: Okay. One last thing to note, and I almost left
Speaker 1: this out due to the length, but I think it's
Speaker 1: really important, and that is that In twenty ten, a
Speaker 1: provincial government inquiry was established to examine the Picton case
Speaker 1: and how it was handled by authorities. In December of
Speaker 1: twenty twelve, a final report was issued by the Missing
Speaker 1: Women Commission of Inquiry, titled Forsaken. Will put the link
Speaker 1: to the report in our show notes, but in short,
Speaker 1: it said blatant failures by police, including an empty criminal
Speaker 1: investigative work compounded by police and social prejusice against sex
Speaker 1: trade workers and indigenous women, had led to a trajectory
Speaker 1: of epic proportions. The inquiry issued sixty three recommendations, including
Speaker 1: the creation of a greater Vancouver Regional Police Force to
Speaker 1: allow for more effective, less fragmented police cooperation. It also
Speaker 1: called for adequate funding for merchan selters for women in
Speaker 1: the sex trade, and for a compensation for children of
Speaker 1: the missing women. Following the report, the Vancouver Police Department
Speaker 1: implemented several policies and changes to its missing person's investigations,
Speaker 1: including making the Missing Person's Unit a regular part of
Speaker 1: the police department and starting missing person investigations without delay,
Speaker 1: and also not closing them until the person was like
Speaker 1: found good and one very very very last mentioned because
Speaker 1: I didn't know where else put this, And I apologize
Speaker 1: ahead of time because it's going to make you very angry.
Speaker 1: But the clothes and rubber boots Robert had been wearing
Speaker 1: the evening of Wendy's attack, the attack we started with, well,
Speaker 1: those were seized by police and left in an RCMP
Speaker 1: storage locker for more than seven years. In two thousand
Speaker 1: and four, they were tested for DNA, and two of
Speaker 1: the victims, Kara Ellis and Andrea Borhaven's DNA was found
Speaker 1: on them. Fuck and I had not heard that before,
Speaker 1: and I was.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, yeah, I haven't heard that before either. Shit,
Speaker 2: seven years they left it in the locker.
Speaker 1: They didn't test. They tested? Why I mean, I mean
Speaker 1: did they They just didn't think that they probably had to.
Speaker 2: I mean, in fact, they already had the DNA elsewhere.
Speaker 2: I mean I guess, yeah, but you could still probably
Speaker 2: fucking test that because it could have come up with
Speaker 2: other names, other individuals.
Speaker 1: I know, because even at one point when Robert was
Speaker 1: kind of like, they're eyeing them up a little bit,
Speaker 1: did they not be like, oh my gosh, like we
Speaker 1: have these boots. They have them?
Speaker 2: When did they have them?
Speaker 1: Sorry, well, they have them for like right after Wendy's thing.
Speaker 2: Oh after Wendy's.
Speaker 1: Wendy and Wendy was in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I thought you meant like when he was
Speaker 2: actually arrested.
Speaker 1: But no, that was holy fun, like for the attack
Speaker 1: where the victims survived, right, wow, like how I started
Speaker 1: this episode. Yeah wow, yeah, like that almost is enough.
Speaker 2: Okay, Wow, that's fucking scary and dark and really fucking sad.
Speaker 2: Thank you for bringing that to my life. I'm scory,
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: You know I pretty much well yeah, I'm started and
Speaker 1: ended this podcast with Wendy, and that's a tough pill
Speaker 1: to swallow right there.
Speaker 2: Wow. Yeah, I've heard this case a few different times,
Speaker 2: a few different ways. I've never heard that piece of
Speaker 2: information before.
Speaker 1: Yeah, me, neither.
Speaker 2: Holy fuck, you're good. I'm good. So that's Robert Picton.
Speaker 1: Hey that's Robert Picton.
Speaker 2: Holy shit, Well, well done. Fuck Robert Picton.
Speaker 1: He's a douche. Yeah, he is a nasty mofo.
Speaker 2: And I hope he never gets out of prison.
Speaker 1: No, he better or not he can't.
Speaker 2: I will fucking lose my shit.
Speaker 1: There would be what's that called, like when people start petitions? Yeah,
Speaker 1: a petition would un like that, I've seen that start.
Speaker 2: There would be more than petitions, would.
Speaker 1: Be a lot of things started.
Speaker 2: Robert Picton would have pickets outside his prison and petitions
Speaker 2: for Picton's I'm trying to say stuff to start to peek,
Speaker 2: but I lost my train. Sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, anyway, thanks for listening. That was quite It's
Speaker 1: quite a doozy of a case.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and well done.
Speaker 1: Here.
Speaker 2: We appreciate you guys being here. Of course, check out
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Speaker 2: Thank you, and of course, as always, stay wicked.