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I gotta tell you something. I wish I was a
fly on the wall with you today because the people
that you're gonna be sharing conversations with, I would love
to just hear their emotion. Because what you've got here
is a book that has been long called for and
how you found it in your heart to finally take
that step to talk about Moses Malone and the Doctor
and stuff, because this cannot be lost history and you're
proving that and you're showing us that, you know what,
there was a time when the geniuses of the game
were the geniuses and they knew it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, thank you so much. I really looked across
this subject. I mean, Moses and the Doctor. You can't
ask for a better protagonists than that.
Speaker 1: What was it about Moses that I mean? Because I
mean to this day, I hear his name and I
just sit there and go, oh God, I got to
talk to somebody, because I got to tell them how
great it was to just fall witness to him. As
well as the doctor.
Speaker 2: Moses Malone was somebody who was so tough to get
to know. He was the prodigy in high school. He
really was the number one recruited sort of person in
the country, and of course he jumped straight from high
school to the pros, which adds to his mystique. But
he himself was a rather closed off, introverted individual. He
did not want to talk to the press. He very
rarely told his story. And so therefore a lot of
the idea of Moses Malone, that dominant figure, has been
lost among newer generations. They simply don't know who he
was and how great he was. Well.
Speaker 1: I love getting into a crowd of people who are
sporting these T shirts that have these famous basketball players
on it, and dude, I'll call him out. I'll say,
do you know who Moses Maloney is? And they'll go,
it's a T shirt that I picked up and I go,
can we just talk for a moment, because you start
talking about how they were on the court and then
the arenas they played in. My god, I mean, it's
like this huge movie all all but stuffed into both
of these men.
Speaker 2: Yeah, both of both of those guys at one point
were the number one players up there. I mean, Moses
and the Doctor started in the American Basketball Association. This
is Doctor Julius serving, and they were sort of the lead,
the lead players. I think that what happens is is
that NBA basketball history has been flattened a little bit
so that the eighties now are the decade of Magic
Johnson and Larry Bird. And we have this narrative that
goes on that Magic Johnson and Larry Bird saved the
NBA was in a sort of a dire state, plagued
by drug issues and image isshoes and money problems, and
Magic and Larry Bird really kind of elevated it into
the global sport that we know today. But that really
neglects a lot of the other people that were equally
as instrumental in doing that, none more so than Julius
Irving and Moses Malone, who in the early eighties were
sort of swapping MVPs, going to the finals one after another.
Couldn't quite get over the hump of winning that championship,
which is why they needed to come together.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm so glad that you included the ABA in
this because that is a lost form of professional basketball,
and that's the league that my brother and I were
heavily inspired by by growing up in the state of Montana,
because we felt like that if we could create our
own little basketball teams with that nerf basketball in the
living room and call ourselves ABA players, our next step
was the NBA. And so you I got to tell
you where my heart went in this book. You took
me back to my childhood. Dude.
Speaker 2: That's funny because I think that your sentiment there that
you had that nerf basketball hoop and you were probably
doing some crazy shots. You would probably just trying every
single thing you could. That was the spirit of the ABA.
The ABA had a more wide open set of play.
It had the three point line, which the NBA did
not have, which drew people more to the perimeter, so
people like Julius Irving could attack the basket and while
he was there, he was unafraid to try these sort
of creative, improvisational moves that he got straight from the
playground and sort of invent a new form of playing
basketball that was more aerial, more spontaneous, more creative. And
he really brought that with him into the NBA. And
so that sort of style of play you see now,
that was sort of, you know, pioneered by then Michael
Jordan than Kobe Bryant. All that I mean that really
comes from the ABA and Julius Irving in particular. They
pioneered that.
Speaker 1: Well, I always thought they could fly, and I'm I
was that kid in the nineteen seventies and eighties that
thought that if anybody's going to teach me how to fly,
it was either going to be the doctor or the
way that Moses would shoot. Do you realize today, even
when I'm putting paper in the trash, can I try
to shoot like Moses?
Speaker 2: He tried to shoot like Moses. So you purposely try
to miss so that you can graduate. Rea. Stop that.
Speaker 1: You stopped that. I'm watching the I'm watching the hand.
I'm not watching where that ball goes. You stopped that.
Speaker 2: Ah. Now, Moses had a very distinct style of play,
and yeah, he did he did have it. He did
have a good jumper. But I mean, the thing about
Moses was he was just so relentless. He would come
at you and come at you and come at you.
He had an energy that never stopped. He wanted to
get that ball as if it were his last meal.
And so his sort of style of play, which was
sort of more sort of gritty, more sort of like
just kind of bumping and grinding. It was very different
than Julius Herbin, who was graceful, who was flying through
the air, who was known for sort of his artistry.
Moses was the grinder, and he was known for more labor.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he reminded me so much of the guy
that was going to get the job done, whereas the
Doctor would sit there and say, let me try this
so that others will soon follow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's the sort of reason why whenever Moses
and the Doctor came together on the nineteen eighty three
Philadelphia seventy six ers into place so well, because Julius
Irving was a great creator. He could go to the basket,
he could think of new ways to score, but he
needed somebody who was going to do the dirty work
on the back end. And that's where Moses really came in.
And so these two complimented each other to such a
great extent that there wasn't a lot of ego on
that team because they were doing something so totally different,
and when they came together, it's like they just ran
the table because they filled in what the other needed.
Speaker 1: Please don't move. There's more with Luke Eplin coming right up. Hey,
thanks for coming back to my conversation with Luke Epplin.
This is where you're going to call me a freak,
and you can write it off that he's just that
dude from Montana with that prairie land. But I'll tell
you what, on my entire childhood, I always believe Julius
Irving really, so that means that he's the guy that
created Orange Julius. I have to go to Orange Julius
because I may see Julius Irving at Orange Julius. That
is the god's honest truth, dude.
Speaker 2: You know, it's not an irrational thing to think, because
Julius Irvin was really one of the first professional basketball
players who was a marketing god. At that time. He
was advertising chepstick, he was advertising converts, he was advertising
hollaroid cameras. He was really one of the people who
put himself forward as an ambassador not only to professional basketball,
but to corporate America, to Hollywood. He was in Hollywood movies,
and so the idea that Julius Irving could be hockey
orange Julius, I mean, it was in keeping with his character.
That was a possibility.
Speaker 1: I love the idea that you brought up that they
were street sensations because too many times a lot of
the journalists will sit there and say, no, they didn't
come from the street, or no, they didn't come from
the YMCA. There is brilliant ball at that level of play,
and these two guys are proof of that.
Speaker 2: Especially Julius Irving, who really was kind of under recruited
in high school. He made his name on the playground
courts around New York City, particularly in Rutger Park. I mean,
whenever Julius Irving came to Rutger Park and started doing
his crazy dunks and his moves from jumping from one
end of the basket to the other, he started attracting
crowds that grew so thick that they would climb fences,
they would climb buildings, congregate on roofs. I mean, he
really was the sensation of the playground and he brought
that playground style into the ABA. A lot of coaches
would have pulled people from trying those playground moves, but
Julius Irving professionalized that he was the one who really said, no, no,
this is not a bad move. I'm doing this because
it's fundamental to who I am and how I play well.
Speaker 1: As kids, we couldn't get to the YMCA and buildings Montana,
so we went to the elementary school playground. You always
talked about the playground and my father was so pissed
off as and I said, Dad, I got to go
play basketball like them. And he'd say, if there's a
broken window at the school, then your friend Julius Irving
is the one that broke it because he felt he
needed to put you on that basketball court at the school.
And it was like, okay, I'm going then. Because that's
the kind of influence he had on young adults, dude, I.
Speaker 2: Think that's exactly right. I mean, I think that Julius
Irving was somebody that fired kids not only to want
to see him, but then to want to emulate him.
And so there go out on the playground and try
his various moves, which is why whenever someone like Michael
Jordan comes into the league, he can immediately start off
doing these sort of interesting, improvisational, creative moves because he
grew up watching Julius Irving do them. Julius Irving had
set the blueprint that Michael Jordan was then able to
seamlessly step into.
Speaker 1: Well. I've always believed that the reason why Jordan got
great was because all the players before him were were
uniforms that were too tight, and Michael Jordan was the
right kill me. I'm not right right here because I
mean because once Jordan came in, everybody loosened up on
that court.
Speaker 2: He did he was the first one to wear the
baggy shorts. I mean, you gotta give him that. I mean,
if doctor j had just worn such a little bag
ear he could have he could have really dominated.
Speaker 1: Where can people go to find out more about you?
Because first of all, I want them to be able
to know who you are and what you're doing, that
you are the real deal when it comes to preserving
the true history of that sport.
Speaker 2: Thank you. You can go to my website Luke Eplin
dot com you can get in contact with me there.
I'd be happy to send you a signed book plate
for your copy of The Doctor.
Speaker 1: Well, we'll come back to this show at any time
in the future, because the door is always going to
be open for you. Dude.
Speaker 2: Thanks man, I had a great time be brilliant today. Okay,
all right, take it easy.