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<v Speaker 1>It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to Maria's MutS and Stuff, and with me is

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<v Speaker 2>the founder of Flatbush Cats and Flatbush Veterinary Clinic in Brooklyn,

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<v Speaker 2>New York. It is Will Zweigert. So will thank you

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<v Speaker 2>for taking some time out. I know you're busy, you

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<v Speaker 2>got a lot going on, but I wanted to talk

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<v Speaker 2>to you about Flatbush Cats and all that you do.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much, Maria, glad to be here.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so tell me what made you decide, like how

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<v Speaker 2>long has Flatbush Cats been around and what made you

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<v Speaker 2>decide to start up?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it was kind of pulled into this after running

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<v Speaker 1>into a lot of cats in central Brooklyn. My partner

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<v Speaker 1>and I had lived in different parts of New York,

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<v Speaker 1>in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and it wasn't until we moved

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<v Speaker 1>to central Brooklyn start to see colonies of cats kittens

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<v Speaker 1>outside and this was totally new to me, life long

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<v Speaker 1>cat lover, long time New Yorker, and I guess I

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<v Speaker 1>just didn't realize that there was such a huge problem,

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in the outer boroughs. Sure, and so it was

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<v Speaker 1>really the cats themselves in our immediate area that kind

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<v Speaker 1>of pulled me in. And as soon as we got

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<v Speaker 1>started rescuing, we learned about trap need to return and

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<v Speaker 1>just started trying to work our way through things right right, And.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean when you said about all the cats, these

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<v Speaker 2>are all pretty much feral cats.

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<v Speaker 1>There are a bunch of feral cats outside. There are

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<v Speaker 1>also a bunch of friendly cats who lived indoors at

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<v Speaker 1>some point, And so we can also use the term

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<v Speaker 1>community cats, which can encompass both. So, because oftentimes we're

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<v Speaker 1>doing a trap need to return project, we may bring

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<v Speaker 1>ten cats in, we're actually finding that three or four

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<v Speaker 1>of them are friendly. They've just been outside for a

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<v Speaker 1>little while and needs time to decompress.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, no, that makes sense, And I mean, I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess is it common sense? Or like why do

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<v Speaker 2>you like do you feel like the problem has increased

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<v Speaker 2>over the years because people are in Spain and neutering

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<v Speaker 2>their cats, like or what do you think is really

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<v Speaker 2>the bottom line problem of why it's you know, grow

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<v Speaker 2>it's grown so much, the population has grown so much.

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<v Speaker 1>I think one of the biggest issues is that many

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<v Speaker 1>New Yorkers are not even aware this is a problem.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't we don't see it? We don't know about it,

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<v Speaker 1>we don't hear about it, and so there's sort of

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<v Speaker 1>a problem blindness around this issue at all unless you're

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to it directly. So I would say that's that's

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<v Speaker 1>one issue. The other macro trend that we're seeing is

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<v Speaker 1>that veterinary costs, the cost of carrying for pet have

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<v Speaker 1>increased well over three hundred percent over the last few decades.

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<v Speaker 1>The New York Times had a study that showed far

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<v Speaker 1>beyond inflation, veterinary costs are are rising quickly. So many

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<v Speaker 1>New Yorkers, like many Americans sure, are now shogging to

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<v Speaker 1>cover basic costs and wondering how they're going to feed

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<v Speaker 1>themselves and their pets, let alone cover you know that

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<v Speaker 1>that built, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Which I think is a reason why to a lot

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<v Speaker 2>of you know, dogs and cats are winding up in

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<v Speaker 2>shelters more so than before because people, like you said,

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<v Speaker 2>they're not even sure they can feed themselves or keep

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<v Speaker 2>a roof over their heads. And I think that that

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, I think it's it's a problem all around,

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<v Speaker 2>as you said, throughout the country as well as as here.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll tell let's talk about for you, what's a day

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<v Speaker 2>in like in your life, like how does your day

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<v Speaker 2>start with Flatbush Cats and and how does it end

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<v Speaker 2>or does it ever end? Like do you get any sleep?

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<v Speaker 2>Because I have a feeling that you don't get a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of sleep. But let's talk about a day in

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<v Speaker 2>the life of you will.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So it is true that the majority of rescues

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<v Speaker 1>and I would say almost all T and R volunteers

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<v Speaker 1>are volunteers. That's why you that term, and so it

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<v Speaker 1>is often the second job. And for the first several

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<v Speaker 1>years I was working in corporate advertising. I would, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>take the Q train from Flatbush to Midtown and I

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<v Speaker 1>was just doing my regular work from nine to six

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<v Speaker 1>or seven at an agency and then I would come

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<v Speaker 1>home and do all the volunteer work. So that was

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<v Speaker 1>my life for several years. My life now is different

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<v Speaker 1>because this is a long term challenge and so it's

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<v Speaker 1>really important that we prioritize sustainability and a balance. And

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<v Speaker 1>so as the executive director of Flatbush Cats, I need

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<v Speaker 1>to set the tone for how we work as a

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<v Speaker 1>team and how we show up for each other, and

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<v Speaker 1>so we actually set really strong boundaries for each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Part of the reason why this organization has grown and

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<v Speaker 1>has several hundred active volunteers out right now is this

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<v Speaker 1>is really hard, isolating work to do by yourself, right,

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<v Speaker 1>So we don't we don't want to be martyrs. We

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<v Speaker 1>don't want to be burning ourselves out, burning the candle

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<v Speaker 1>at both ends. We've tried to build team based approaches

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<v Speaker 1>because anyone out there who's rescued a cat or foster

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<v Speaker 1>to cat knows it's a lot of work to do

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<v Speaker 1>by yourself. Sure, And so my day to day is

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<v Speaker 1>really now as a leader about team support. My last

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<v Speaker 1>discussion was just looking at one of our teams and

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<v Speaker 1>making sure that everyone has the resources that they need

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<v Speaker 1>to succeed, because this is a long term effort and

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<v Speaker 1>you can go really hard by yourself rescuing cats, but

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<v Speaker 1>it's going to take a big team, moving slowly and

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<v Speaker 1>thoughtfully to solve this at a systemic level.

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<v Speaker 2>Right right. And those resources, like, what are they that

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<v Speaker 2>a team would need?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I think we I mean your greatest resources time, right, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>So having clarity around one of the questions that we

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<v Speaker 1>ask our donors and we ask our team members is

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<v Speaker 1>the same what kind of impact do you want to have?

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<v Speaker 1>And so we start with that. The biggest impact we

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<v Speaker 1>want to have is we want to address why there

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<v Speaker 1>are so many casts outside suffering. Because we're in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of kitten season right now rescues where we brought

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<v Speaker 1>in a litter of nine kittens, all each one with

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<v Speaker 1>its own medical issues, some of them had to go

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<v Speaker 1>to the er. So we have to really look up

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<v Speaker 1>stream and say, assume that there's almost an endless supply

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<v Speaker 1>of casts needing help, more than you can possibly get to.

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<v Speaker 1>So the kind of impact we want to have is

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<v Speaker 1>we want to prevent those casts from ever needing help

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<v Speaker 1>in the future, and that starts with providing our neighbors,

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<v Speaker 1>New Yorkers and pet owners with access to affordable veterinary care,

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<v Speaker 1>which is why a little bit less than two years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>we launched our first nonprofit veterinary clinic in Flatbush. It's

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<v Speaker 1>called Flatbush Veterinary Clinic. And the reason why we did

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<v Speaker 1>that is because Spain neoter is under prevention. The best

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<v Speaker 1>way that we can prevent thousands of casts from needing

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<v Speaker 1>help outside has been sure New Yorkers have access to

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<v Speaker 1>span and or surgeries.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so and let's talk about the Flatbush Veterinary Clinic

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<v Speaker 2>because that seems to be the answer that we need

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<v Speaker 2>all over the country in small towns, big towns, cities,

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<v Speaker 2>because basically, you know, people can't afford to get their

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<v Speaker 2>pets spade and neutered. So let's talk a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>about that, because I feel like you have a plan

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<v Speaker 2>or have had a master plan that you're working on

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<v Speaker 2>and currently doing. So let's talk about that a little bit.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and a lot of this comes from my experience

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<v Speaker 1>directly as a rescuer, because you know, I've been I've

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<v Speaker 1>been through burnout many times. I've been through that feeling

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<v Speaker 1>of frustration like no matter what you do, it's not enough, right,

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<v Speaker 1>And so we really had to take a step back

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<v Speaker 1>and say how we're going to get in front of this.

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<v Speaker 1>And so I spent years learning from other folks, talking

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<v Speaker 1>to folks around the country, just trying to understand what

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<v Speaker 1>could we do at a city level that would actually

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<v Speaker 1>reduce the number of cats and dogs showing up at shelters,

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<v Speaker 1>because our partners at the shelter are given an impossible task.

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<v Speaker 1>If you show up every Monday and there are several

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<v Speaker 1>hundred animals waiting for you to place them somewhere, and

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<v Speaker 1>there's nowhere for you to place them, then we as

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<v Speaker 1>a city have set you up to fail.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct.

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<v Speaker 1>So Flatbush VET was designed as an upstream model as

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<v Speaker 1>a solution to over crowded shelters here in New York,

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<v Speaker 1>and it is a scalable model. To your point, this

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<v Speaker 1>is something that nonprofits and city leaders can bring to

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<v Speaker 1>their town, can bring to their county or city, because

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<v Speaker 1>everyone does need affordable ventery care. Over half of all

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<v Speaker 1>Americans right now can't afford a spade utter surgery. And

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<v Speaker 1>so we know this. We know the data that shows

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<v Speaker 1>two thirds of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's no surprise that affordability is both the number one

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<v Speaker 1>reason why people surrender pets and also the number one

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<v Speaker 1>reason why people say they can no longer afford to adopt.

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<v Speaker 1>It's so heartbreaking and you think about your pets, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and I have people come up to me and say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>my pets are my life, but when they pass, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be able to adopt again. I've heard

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<v Speaker 1>that heartbreaking that is it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I've heard the same exact thing, because people are

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<v Speaker 2>just I can't do it, and it's really sad. It's

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<v Speaker 2>very sad. I mean, it's sad for us as humans

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<v Speaker 2>because I feel, you know, we're the human pet bond

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<v Speaker 2>is just so incredible, and it's important for us to

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<v Speaker 2>have pets in our lives, just as important it is

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<v Speaker 2>for us to be in their lives. And the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that so many people are not going to do it

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<v Speaker 2>moving forward, you know, that's not good. It's not good

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<v Speaker 2>either way.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you know, yeah, you're right. And the good news

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<v Speaker 1>is I look at this as a solvable problem. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>the human healthcare system is a total mass it's it's

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<v Speaker 1>pretty much, you know, it's not working for most Americans.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not giving us the outcomes that we want. The

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<v Speaker 1>good news is that the veterinary care system is not

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<v Speaker 1>currently dependent on the same insurance model, and so as

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<v Speaker 1>a nonprofit vet clinic, our goal is to make these

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<v Speaker 1>services affordable. They don't need to be they don't need

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<v Speaker 1>to be free. People just need a fair shot, They

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<v Speaker 1>just need a chance to be able to provide for

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<v Speaker 1>their pets. And the city does play a role in this.

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<v Speaker 1>So the majority of our support and the reason why

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<v Speaker 1>flablished Veterinary Clinic exists is because animal loving supporters from

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<v Speaker 1>around the country, not just New York. That I need

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<v Speaker 1>to see this happen because I want to see it

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<v Speaker 1>happen somewhere, and if we can make it happen in

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<v Speaker 1>New York, you know, the same anywhere. Yeah. So this

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<v Speaker 1>is really something that animal lovers can can fund here

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<v Speaker 1>in New York and in their towns. And then we

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<v Speaker 1>also need to get the city involved because our message

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<v Speaker 1>to City Council, and we've recently testified at the latest

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<v Speaker 1>budget hearings, is that this is actually a cost saving

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<v Speaker 1>measure for the city. So when we talk to City

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<v Speaker 1>council members, we say, look, I don't it doesn't matter

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<v Speaker 1>whether you're an animal lover or not. This is just

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<v Speaker 1>common sense. If we can provide more New Yorkers, the

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<v Speaker 1>Spain and Ent appointments are going to be spending a

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<v Speaker 1>lot less money sheltering animals.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, yeah, And I'm sure that was met with

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<v Speaker 2>agreeable you know, city council people agreeing with that because

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<v Speaker 2>it's logical.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Start, I start every conversation by saying, the number

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<v Speaker 1>one issue for New Yorkers is affordability, So let's talk

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<v Speaker 1>about it, and we're bringing a solution here. It's not

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<v Speaker 1>every day that you could introduce something like a new

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<v Speaker 1>budget measure. There's a one point five million dollars Spade

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<v Speaker 1>neuter budget measure in this upcoming budget. It's not every

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<v Speaker 1>day you can introduce something that actually makes life better

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<v Speaker 1>for your constituents and helps the bottom line because you're

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<v Speaker 1>saving about seventy five percent her animal if you just

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<v Speaker 1>give them the services that they need so they can

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<v Speaker 1>stay with their family instead of having to pay to

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<v Speaker 1>shelter them.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, no, I mean that makes it's it's almost it

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<v Speaker 2>makes so much sense that people don't get it. If

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<v Speaker 2>that makes sense, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>things are so filled with common sense and what you

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<v Speaker 2>scratch your head like, wait, why it hasn't this happened before?

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<v Speaker 1>You know?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, So let's I've heard you use the word you've

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<v Speaker 2>said upstream a couple of times. Talk to me about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I know that's you use that as opposed to downstream.

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<v Speaker 2>Explain I like it, but explain upstream to my listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The premise is that it was actually an analogy

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<v Speaker 1>based on having to pull people out of a river

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<v Speaker 1>where you're trying to you're trying to go in and

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<v Speaker 1>save someone's life by pulling them out of the river,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's kind of an old folk tale and someone says, well,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to go upstream and figure out why they

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<v Speaker 1>keep falling in right, And so the premise behind upstream

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<v Speaker 1>is that the best time to solve a problem is

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<v Speaker 1>before it happens, correct.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Actually, So

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<v Speaker 2>what do you see in I want to say, not

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<v Speaker 2>the near future, but what do you see five years

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<v Speaker 2>from now for you with flat bush cats? For the

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<v Speaker 2>pet uh you know, I want to I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to call it industry because that sounds like I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>talking about you know, food and toys, but for the

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<v Speaker 2>pet population. What do you think, like, what's your gut

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<v Speaker 2>down the road and maybe not even five years you know,

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<v Speaker 2>down in the future.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, how did it? Yeah, we're looking. Yeah, that's a

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<v Speaker 1>great question. We're looking five to ten years out right

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<v Speaker 1>now because a lot of these problems are very large

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<v Speaker 1>and you don't solve complex problems quickly. I think the

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<v Speaker 1>biggest win for us, and I say us, I mean

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<v Speaker 1>animal lovers around the trade, around the world. The biggest

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<v Speaker 1>win for us would be a mindset shift. There's a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of individualism, there's a lot of blame and judgment

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<v Speaker 1>around if someone needs to surrender their pet due to

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<v Speaker 1>life circumstances. We've always been told don't adopt a pet

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<v Speaker 1>if you can't afford to care for it. I would

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<v Speaker 1>like to see and we're going to be working on

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<v Speaker 1>a collective mindset shifts so that we can start taking

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<v Speaker 1>better care of each other. When we do that, we

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<v Speaker 1>can take better care of ourselves and our pets. Because

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<v Speaker 1>when you actually meet someone and talk to them about

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<v Speaker 1>their pet, you see that they're the light of their world.

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<v Speaker 1>You realize we actually, we all believe that pets are family.

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<v Speaker 1>And that mindset shift is so important because this is

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<v Speaker 1>not something that we're going to be able to solve

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<v Speaker 1>through an individual lens. We need to think about our

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<v Speaker 1>collective responsibility to care for each other, and we need

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<v Speaker 1>to imagine a world where we're able to provide basics

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<v Speaker 1>for each other and then actually expect those services to

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<v Speaker 1>be provided by our local government. Because right now in

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<v Speaker 1>New York City, most New Yorkers are not aware of

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<v Speaker 1>this problem. They're not aware of a solution. And when

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<v Speaker 1>I say solution, I mean affordable community clinics around in

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<v Speaker 1>every borough, and so they're not asking, they're not asking

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<v Speaker 1>for it. They're not asking city council members to fund

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<v Speaker 1>these types of initiatives. So when I say mindset shift

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<v Speaker 1>is because a lot of this work has to start

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<v Speaker 1>with us. What we believe is possible and what we're

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<v Speaker 1>willing to work for makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>So let me ask you this, did you ever do

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<v Speaker 2>you ever think about getting involved in politics locally?

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<v Speaker 1>I am involved in politics. I am working to increase

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<v Speaker 1>city funding for spade hooter and affordable veterinary care, and

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<v Speaker 1>all New Yorkers have the ability to know the love

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<v Speaker 1>and joy and companionship that our pets provide, and we

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<v Speaker 1>are going to be increasing our efforts in this area.

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<v Speaker 1>I can tell you, I tell you what's on my agenda.

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<v Speaker 1>If you'd like to hear it, I would love to

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<v Speaker 1>hear it. Yes, Okay, So right now, New York City

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<v Speaker 1>is spending about forty one million dollars on sheltering animals,

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<v Speaker 1>which is a necessary function, that is a necessary thing

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<v Speaker 1>the city should do. But they're spending zero dollars maria

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<v Speaker 1>on spade inner services, and so we need that number

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<v Speaker 1>to increase dramatically. New York City should be a leader

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<v Speaker 1>in this and that would mean spending significantly more per

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<v Speaker 1>capita on animal welfare services, which right now is less

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<v Speaker 1>than zero point zero two five percent of the city budget.

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<v Speaker 2>That's embarrassing.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to get real. It is embarrassing.

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<v Speaker 2>It'ssing.

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<v Speaker 1>We need to get real. Yeah, let's get real about

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<v Speaker 1>what it's actually going to cost to take this problem seriously.

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<v Speaker 1>And let's let's give our politicians credit for being able

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<v Speaker 1>to walk and show them at the same time, we're

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<v Speaker 1>able to have parks and subways and mass transit and

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<v Speaker 1>affordable housing. We're able to push for multiple things at

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<v Speaker 1>once and as long as our tax dollars are used effectively.

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<v Speaker 1>The other thing I would like to see is the

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<v Speaker 1>creation of a Department of Animal Welfare. And this may

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<v Speaker 1>look different in different cities and counties around the country,

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<v Speaker 1>but New York City is large enough that it needs

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<v Speaker 1>a standalone, funded department that is baselined in the budget.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not the whim of a new mayor. And we

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<v Speaker 1>have meaningful resources and support, not just for shelters and

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<v Speaker 1>not just for affordable veteran care, but for the thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of T and R and rescue volunteers who are out

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<v Speaker 1>there doing the city's job for free, with out the

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<v Speaker 1>resources that they need to do the job, and we're

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<v Speaker 1>not going to be able to accomplish that through the

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Health as things are standing now. The last

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<v Speaker 1>thing I would like to see on our agenda is

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<v Speaker 1>we need legislation and funding that mandates the creation of

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<v Speaker 1>nonprofit veteran clinics in every borough period.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, you're absolutely right, and you know you said it

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<v Speaker 2>because I was gonna say, I just find it ridiculous,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't. I'm not sure if it's like that

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<v Speaker 2>in other cities around the country, but the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>animal welfare is part of the Department of Health, it

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<v Speaker 2>just yeah, it just kind of it just doesn't make

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<v Speaker 2>sense to me. It never made sense over the years,

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<v Speaker 2>and the fact that it's still continuing the same way

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't make sense. And I'm and I actually you

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<v Speaker 2>probably might know more than me. Is it like that

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<v Speaker 2>in other cities around the country.

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<v Speaker 1>Generally yes, And that's because we haven't meaningfully updated animal

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<v Speaker 1>welfare legislation and policy in decades, decades, like the role

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<v Speaker 1>that animals play in our lives now. When these departments

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<v Speaker 1>were created, the job was to was to protect people

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<v Speaker 1>from animals, right and now now that they're part of

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<v Speaker 1>our families and they're sleeping in our beds. Yeah, we

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<v Speaker 1>need to be resourcing these much more meaningfully. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like it's from like hundreds of years ago,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, like let's update it a little bit too.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we have to That starts with

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<v Speaker 1>us though, right, we can't criticize We can't criticize our

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<v Speaker 1>elected officials for not passing legislation that no one asks for.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's true.

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<v Speaker 1>So the first step starts with us. We need a

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<v Speaker 1>vision what's possible, and then we need to go ask

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<v Speaker 1>for it. And I believe that our pets deserve nothing less.

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<v Speaker 2>I agree with you. I agree. So will for someone

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<v Speaker 2>who's listening right now and they want to do something

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<v Speaker 2>and they want to help you do survive on donations. Correct,

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<v Speaker 2>you know you're a nonprofit, So they could go to

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<v Speaker 2>flatbushcats dot org to help out.

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<v Speaker 1>Absolutely. Our greatest need is financial support, and we are

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<v Speaker 1>our vessel for the supporters out there who want to

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<v Speaker 1>see meaningful and structural change. We will deliver it, and

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<v Speaker 1>we love folks to join us as a monthly supporter.

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<v Speaker 1>They could visit flatbushcats dot org slash donate to make

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<v Speaker 1>a one time or recurring donation and they can keep

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<v Speaker 1>up with all of our rescue stories and updates on Facebook, Instagram,

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<v Speaker 1>on YouTube wherever you you like your videos.

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<v Speaker 2>Well will thank you for all that you do. Keep

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<v Speaker 2>fighting the good fight. And I you know when I

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<v Speaker 2>asked you about getting into politics and you said you are,

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<v Speaker 2>but I would really like to see you in an

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<v Speaker 2>elected position because I think you just have the drive

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<v Speaker 2>and the knowledge and the passion to do that. So

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<v Speaker 2>if you ever decide to take that road.

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<v Speaker 1>Something, I really I appreciate that. And we'll keep pushing

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<v Speaker 1>from wherever we can. And thank everyone listening for joining

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<v Speaker 1>us on this mission.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely well, thank you again and thanks for all you do.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll definitely talk again because I think we're going to

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot more news too as time goes on.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's make some news, yeah,