Speaker 1: It's Maria's MutS and Stuff. What a great idea on iHeartRadio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Maria's MutS and Stuff, and with me is
Speaker 2: the founder of Flatbush Cats and Flatbush Veterinary Clinic in Brooklyn,
Speaker 2: New York. It is Will Zweigert. So will thank you
Speaker 2: for taking some time out. I know you're busy, you
Speaker 2: got a lot going on, but I wanted to talk
Speaker 2: to you about Flatbush Cats and all that you do.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Maria, glad to be here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so tell me what made you decide, like how
Speaker 2: long has Flatbush Cats been around and what made you
Speaker 2: decide to start up?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was kind of pulled into this after running
Speaker 1: into a lot of cats in central Brooklyn. My partner
Speaker 1: and I had lived in different parts of New York,
Speaker 1: in Manhattan and Brooklyn, and it wasn't until we moved
Speaker 1: to central Brooklyn start to see colonies of cats kittens
Speaker 1: outside and this was totally new to me, life long
Speaker 1: cat lover, long time New Yorker, and I guess I
Speaker 1: just didn't realize that there was such a huge problem,
Speaker 1: particularly in the outer boroughs. Sure, and so it was
Speaker 1: really the cats themselves in our immediate area that kind
Speaker 1: of pulled me in. And as soon as we got
Speaker 1: started rescuing, we learned about trap need to return and
Speaker 1: just started trying to work our way through things right right, And.
Speaker 2: I mean when you said about all the cats, these
Speaker 2: are all pretty much feral cats.
Speaker 1: There are a bunch of feral cats outside. There are
Speaker 1: also a bunch of friendly cats who lived indoors at
Speaker 1: some point, And so we can also use the term
Speaker 1: community cats, which can encompass both. So, because oftentimes we're
Speaker 1: doing a trap need to return project, we may bring
Speaker 1: ten cats in, we're actually finding that three or four
Speaker 1: of them are friendly. They've just been outside for a
Speaker 1: little while and needs time to decompress.
Speaker 2: Sure, no, that makes sense, And I mean, I mean,
Speaker 2: I guess is it common sense? Or like why do
Speaker 2: you like do you feel like the problem has increased
Speaker 2: over the years because people are in Spain and neutering
Speaker 2: their cats, like or what do you think is really
Speaker 2: the bottom line problem of why it's you know, grow
Speaker 2: it's grown so much, the population has grown so much.
Speaker 1: I think one of the biggest issues is that many
Speaker 1: New Yorkers are not even aware this is a problem.
Speaker 1: Don't we don't see it? We don't know about it,
Speaker 1: we don't hear about it, and so there's sort of
Speaker 1: a problem blindness around this issue at all unless you're
Speaker 1: exposed to it directly. So I would say that's that's
Speaker 1: one issue. The other macro trend that we're seeing is
Speaker 1: that veterinary costs, the cost of carrying for pet have
Speaker 1: increased well over three hundred percent over the last few decades.
Speaker 1: The New York Times had a study that showed far
Speaker 1: beyond inflation, veterinary costs are are rising quickly. So many
Speaker 1: New Yorkers, like many Americans sure, are now shogging to
Speaker 1: cover basic costs and wondering how they're going to feed
Speaker 1: themselves and their pets, let alone cover you know that
Speaker 1: that built, yeah.
Speaker 2: Which I think is a reason why to a lot
Speaker 2: of you know, dogs and cats are winding up in
Speaker 2: shelters more so than before because people, like you said,
Speaker 2: they're not even sure they can feed themselves or keep
Speaker 2: a roof over their heads. And I think that that
Speaker 2: I mean, I think it's it's a problem all around,
Speaker 2: as you said, throughout the country as well as as here.
Speaker 2: We'll tell let's talk about for you, what's a day
Speaker 2: in like in your life, like how does your day
Speaker 2: start with Flatbush Cats and and how does it end
Speaker 2: or does it ever end? Like do you get any sleep?
Speaker 2: Because I have a feeling that you don't get a
Speaker 2: lot of sleep. But let's talk about a day in
Speaker 2: the life of you will.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So it is true that the majority of rescues
Speaker 1: and I would say almost all T and R volunteers
Speaker 1: are volunteers. That's why you that term, and so it
Speaker 1: is often the second job. And for the first several
Speaker 1: years I was working in corporate advertising. I would, you know,
Speaker 1: take the Q train from Flatbush to Midtown and I
Speaker 1: was just doing my regular work from nine to six
Speaker 1: or seven at an agency and then I would come
Speaker 1: home and do all the volunteer work. So that was
Speaker 1: my life for several years. My life now is different
Speaker 1: because this is a long term challenge and so it's
Speaker 1: really important that we prioritize sustainability and a balance. And
Speaker 1: so as the executive director of Flatbush Cats, I need
Speaker 1: to set the tone for how we work as a
Speaker 1: team and how we show up for each other, and
Speaker 1: so we actually set really strong boundaries for each other.
Speaker 1: Part of the reason why this organization has grown and
Speaker 1: has several hundred active volunteers out right now is this
Speaker 1: is really hard, isolating work to do by yourself, right,
Speaker 1: So we don't we don't want to be martyrs. We
Speaker 1: don't want to be burning ourselves out, burning the candle
Speaker 1: at both ends. We've tried to build team based approaches
Speaker 1: because anyone out there who's rescued a cat or foster
Speaker 1: to cat knows it's a lot of work to do
Speaker 1: by yourself. Sure, And so my day to day is
Speaker 1: really now as a leader about team support. My last
Speaker 1: discussion was just looking at one of our teams and
Speaker 1: making sure that everyone has the resources that they need
Speaker 1: to succeed, because this is a long term effort and
Speaker 1: you can go really hard by yourself rescuing cats, but
Speaker 1: it's going to take a big team, moving slowly and
Speaker 1: thoughtfully to solve this at a systemic level.
Speaker 2: Right right. And those resources, like, what are they that
Speaker 2: a team would need?
Speaker 1: Well, I think we I mean your greatest resources time, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: So having clarity around one of the questions that we
Speaker 1: ask our donors and we ask our team members is
Speaker 1: the same what kind of impact do you want to have?
Speaker 1: And so we start with that. The biggest impact we
Speaker 1: want to have is we want to address why there
Speaker 1: are so many casts outside suffering. Because we're in the
Speaker 1: middle of kitten season right now rescues where we brought
Speaker 1: in a litter of nine kittens, all each one with
Speaker 1: its own medical issues, some of them had to go
Speaker 1: to the er. So we have to really look up
Speaker 1: stream and say, assume that there's almost an endless supply
Speaker 1: of casts needing help, more than you can possibly get to.
Speaker 1: So the kind of impact we want to have is
Speaker 1: we want to prevent those casts from ever needing help
Speaker 1: in the future, and that starts with providing our neighbors,
Speaker 1: New Yorkers and pet owners with access to affordable veterinary care,
Speaker 1: which is why a little bit less than two years ago,
Speaker 1: we launched our first nonprofit veterinary clinic in Flatbush. It's
Speaker 1: called Flatbush Veterinary Clinic. And the reason why we did
Speaker 1: that is because Spain neoter is under prevention. The best
Speaker 1: way that we can prevent thousands of casts from needing
Speaker 1: help outside has been sure New Yorkers have access to
Speaker 1: span and or surgeries.
Speaker 2: Okay, so and let's talk about the Flatbush Veterinary Clinic
Speaker 2: because that seems to be the answer that we need
Speaker 2: all over the country in small towns, big towns, cities,
Speaker 2: because basically, you know, people can't afford to get their
Speaker 2: pets spade and neutered. So let's talk a little bit
Speaker 2: about that, because I feel like you have a plan
Speaker 2: or have had a master plan that you're working on
Speaker 2: and currently doing. So let's talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of this comes from my experience
Speaker 1: directly as a rescuer, because you know, I've been I've
Speaker 1: been through burnout many times. I've been through that feeling
Speaker 1: of frustration like no matter what you do, it's not enough, right,
Speaker 1: And so we really had to take a step back
Speaker 1: and say how we're going to get in front of this.
Speaker 1: And so I spent years learning from other folks, talking
Speaker 1: to folks around the country, just trying to understand what
Speaker 1: could we do at a city level that would actually
Speaker 1: reduce the number of cats and dogs showing up at shelters,
Speaker 1: because our partners at the shelter are given an impossible task.
Speaker 1: If you show up every Monday and there are several
Speaker 1: hundred animals waiting for you to place them somewhere, and
Speaker 1: there's nowhere for you to place them, then we as
Speaker 1: a city have set you up to fail.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: So Flatbush VET was designed as an upstream model as
Speaker 1: a solution to over crowded shelters here in New York,
Speaker 1: and it is a scalable model. To your point, this
Speaker 1: is something that nonprofits and city leaders can bring to
Speaker 1: their town, can bring to their county or city, because
Speaker 1: everyone does need affordable ventery care. Over half of all
Speaker 1: Americans right now can't afford a spade utter surgery. And
Speaker 1: so we know this. We know the data that shows
Speaker 1: two thirds of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. So
Speaker 1: it's no surprise that affordability is both the number one
Speaker 1: reason why people surrender pets and also the number one
Speaker 1: reason why people say they can no longer afford to adopt.
Speaker 1: It's so heartbreaking and you think about your pets, right,
Speaker 1: and I have people come up to me and say, hey,
Speaker 1: my pets are my life, but when they pass, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to be able to adopt again. I've heard
Speaker 1: that heartbreaking that is it is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've heard the same exact thing, because people are
Speaker 2: just I can't do it, and it's really sad. It's
Speaker 2: very sad. I mean, it's sad for us as humans
Speaker 2: because I feel, you know, we're the human pet bond
Speaker 2: is just so incredible, and it's important for us to
Speaker 2: have pets in our lives, just as important it is
Speaker 2: for us to be in their lives. And the fact
Speaker 2: that so many people are not going to do it
Speaker 2: moving forward, you know, that's not good. It's not good
Speaker 2: either way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, you're right. And the good news
Speaker 1: is I look at this as a solvable problem. I mean,
Speaker 1: the human healthcare system is a total mass it's it's
Speaker 1: pretty much, you know, it's not working for most Americans.
Speaker 1: It's not giving us the outcomes that we want. The
Speaker 1: good news is that the veterinary care system is not
Speaker 1: currently dependent on the same insurance model, and so as
Speaker 1: a nonprofit vet clinic, our goal is to make these
Speaker 1: services affordable. They don't need to be they don't need
Speaker 1: to be free. People just need a fair shot, They
Speaker 1: just need a chance to be able to provide for
Speaker 1: their pets. And the city does play a role in this.
Speaker 1: So the majority of our support and the reason why
Speaker 1: flablished Veterinary Clinic exists is because animal loving supporters from
Speaker 1: around the country, not just New York. That I need
Speaker 1: to see this happen because I want to see it
Speaker 1: happen somewhere, and if we can make it happen in
Speaker 1: New York, you know, the same anywhere. Yeah. So this
Speaker 1: is really something that animal lovers can can fund here
Speaker 1: in New York and in their towns. And then we
Speaker 1: also need to get the city involved because our message
Speaker 1: to City Council, and we've recently testified at the latest
Speaker 1: budget hearings, is that this is actually a cost saving
Speaker 1: measure for the city. So when we talk to City
Speaker 1: council members, we say, look, I don't it doesn't matter
Speaker 1: whether you're an animal lover or not. This is just
Speaker 1: common sense. If we can provide more New Yorkers, the
Speaker 1: Spain and Ent appointments are going to be spending a
Speaker 1: lot less money sheltering animals.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, And I'm sure that was met with
Speaker 2: agreeable you know, city council people agreeing with that because
Speaker 2: it's logical.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Start, I start every conversation by saying, the number
Speaker 1: one issue for New Yorkers is affordability, So let's talk
Speaker 1: about it, and we're bringing a solution here. It's not
Speaker 1: every day that you could introduce something like a new
Speaker 1: budget measure. There's a one point five million dollars Spade
Speaker 1: neuter budget measure in this upcoming budget. It's not every
Speaker 1: day you can introduce something that actually makes life better
Speaker 1: for your constituents and helps the bottom line because you're
Speaker 1: saving about seventy five percent her animal if you just
Speaker 1: give them the services that they need so they can
Speaker 1: stay with their family instead of having to pay to
Speaker 1: shelter them.
Speaker 2: Sure, no, I mean that makes it's it's almost it
Speaker 2: makes so much sense that people don't get it. If
Speaker 2: that makes sense, you know what I mean? Like, sometimes
Speaker 2: things are so filled with common sense and what you
Speaker 2: scratch your head like, wait, why it hasn't this happened before?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So let's I've heard you use the word you've
Speaker 2: said upstream a couple of times. Talk to me about that.
Speaker 2: I know that's you use that as opposed to downstream.
Speaker 2: Explain I like it, but explain upstream to my listeners.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The premise is that it was actually an analogy
Speaker 1: based on having to pull people out of a river
Speaker 1: where you're trying to you're trying to go in and
Speaker 1: save someone's life by pulling them out of the river,
Speaker 1: and it's kind of an old folk tale and someone says, well,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go upstream and figure out why they
Speaker 1: keep falling in right, And so the premise behind upstream
Speaker 1: is that the best time to solve a problem is
Speaker 1: before it happens, correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Actually, So
Speaker 2: what do you see in I want to say, not
Speaker 2: the near future, but what do you see five years
Speaker 2: from now for you with flat bush cats? For the
Speaker 2: pet uh you know, I want to I don't want
Speaker 2: to call it industry because that sounds like I'm not
Speaker 2: talking about you know, food and toys, but for the
Speaker 2: pet population. What do you think, like, what's your gut
Speaker 2: down the road and maybe not even five years you know,
Speaker 2: down in the future.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how did it? Yeah, we're looking. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 1: great question. We're looking five to ten years out right
Speaker 1: now because a lot of these problems are very large
Speaker 1: and you don't solve complex problems quickly. I think the
Speaker 1: biggest win for us, and I say us, I mean
Speaker 1: animal lovers around the trade, around the world. The biggest
Speaker 1: win for us would be a mindset shift. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of individualism, there's a lot of blame and judgment
Speaker 1: around if someone needs to surrender their pet due to
Speaker 1: life circumstances. We've always been told don't adopt a pet
Speaker 1: if you can't afford to care for it. I would
Speaker 1: like to see and we're going to be working on
Speaker 1: a collective mindset shifts so that we can start taking
Speaker 1: better care of each other. When we do that, we
Speaker 1: can take better care of ourselves and our pets. Because
Speaker 1: when you actually meet someone and talk to them about
Speaker 1: their pet, you see that they're the light of their world.
Speaker 1: You realize we actually, we all believe that pets are family.
Speaker 1: And that mindset shift is so important because this is
Speaker 1: not something that we're going to be able to solve
Speaker 1: through an individual lens. We need to think about our
Speaker 1: collective responsibility to care for each other, and we need
Speaker 1: to imagine a world where we're able to provide basics
Speaker 1: for each other and then actually expect those services to
Speaker 1: be provided by our local government. Because right now in
Speaker 1: New York City, most New Yorkers are not aware of
Speaker 1: this problem. They're not aware of a solution. And when
Speaker 1: I say solution, I mean affordable community clinics around in
Speaker 1: every borough, and so they're not asking, they're not asking
Speaker 1: for it. They're not asking city council members to fund
Speaker 1: these types of initiatives. So when I say mindset shift
Speaker 1: is because a lot of this work has to start
Speaker 1: with us. What we believe is possible and what we're
Speaker 1: willing to work for makes sense.
Speaker 2: So let me ask you this, did you ever do
Speaker 2: you ever think about getting involved in politics locally?
Speaker 1: I am involved in politics. I am working to increase
Speaker 1: city funding for spade hooter and affordable veterinary care, and
Speaker 1: all New Yorkers have the ability to know the love
Speaker 1: and joy and companionship that our pets provide, and we
Speaker 1: are going to be increasing our efforts in this area.
Speaker 1: I can tell you, I tell you what's on my agenda.
Speaker 1: If you'd like to hear it, I would love to
Speaker 1: hear it. Yes, Okay, So right now, New York City
Speaker 1: is spending about forty one million dollars on sheltering animals,
Speaker 1: which is a necessary function, that is a necessary thing
Speaker 1: the city should do. But they're spending zero dollars maria
Speaker 1: on spade inner services, and so we need that number
Speaker 1: to increase dramatically. New York City should be a leader
Speaker 1: in this and that would mean spending significantly more per
Speaker 1: capita on animal welfare services, which right now is less
Speaker 1: than zero point zero two five percent of the city budget.
Speaker 2: That's embarrassing.
Speaker 1: You need to get real. It is embarrassing.
Speaker 2: It'ssing.
Speaker 1: We need to get real. Yeah, let's get real about
Speaker 1: what it's actually going to cost to take this problem seriously.
Speaker 1: And let's let's give our politicians credit for being able
Speaker 1: to walk and show them at the same time, we're
Speaker 1: able to have parks and subways and mass transit and
Speaker 1: affordable housing. We're able to push for multiple things at
Speaker 1: once and as long as our tax dollars are used effectively.
Speaker 1: The other thing I would like to see is the
Speaker 1: creation of a Department of Animal Welfare. And this may
Speaker 1: look different in different cities and counties around the country,
Speaker 1: but New York City is large enough that it needs
Speaker 1: a standalone, funded department that is baselined in the budget.
Speaker 1: It's not the whim of a new mayor. And we
Speaker 1: have meaningful resources and support, not just for shelters and
Speaker 1: not just for affordable veteran care, but for the thousands
Speaker 1: of T and R and rescue volunteers who are out
Speaker 1: there doing the city's job for free, with out the
Speaker 1: resources that they need to do the job, and we're
Speaker 1: not going to be able to accomplish that through the
Speaker 1: Department of Health as things are standing now. The last
Speaker 1: thing I would like to see on our agenda is
Speaker 1: we need legislation and funding that mandates the creation of
Speaker 1: nonprofit veteran clinics in every borough period.
Speaker 2: Yes, you're absolutely right, and you know you said it
Speaker 2: because I was gonna say, I just find it ridiculous,
Speaker 2: and I don't. I'm not sure if it's like that
Speaker 2: in other cities around the country, but the fact that
Speaker 2: animal welfare is part of the Department of Health, it
Speaker 2: just yeah, it just kind of it just doesn't make
Speaker 2: sense to me. It never made sense over the years,
Speaker 2: and the fact that it's still continuing the same way
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense. And I'm and I actually you
Speaker 2: probably might know more than me. Is it like that
Speaker 2: in other cities around the country.
Speaker 1: Generally yes, And that's because we haven't meaningfully updated animal
Speaker 1: welfare legislation and policy in decades, decades, like the role
Speaker 1: that animals play in our lives now. When these departments
Speaker 1: were created, the job was to was to protect people
Speaker 1: from animals, right and now now that they're part of
Speaker 1: our families and they're sleeping in our beds. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: need to be resourcing these much more meaningfully. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I feel like it's from like hundreds of years ago,
Speaker 2: you know, like let's update it a little bit too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So we have to That starts with
Speaker 1: us though, right, we can't criticize We can't criticize our
Speaker 1: elected officials for not passing legislation that no one asks for.
Speaker 2: Well, that's true.
Speaker 1: So the first step starts with us. We need a
Speaker 1: vision what's possible, and then we need to go ask
Speaker 1: for it. And I believe that our pets deserve nothing less.
Speaker 2: I agree with you. I agree. So will for someone
Speaker 2: who's listening right now and they want to do something
Speaker 2: and they want to help you do survive on donations. Correct,
Speaker 2: you know you're a nonprofit, So they could go to
Speaker 2: flatbushcats dot org to help out.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Our greatest need is financial support, and we are
Speaker 1: our vessel for the supporters out there who want to
Speaker 1: see meaningful and structural change. We will deliver it, and
Speaker 1: we love folks to join us as a monthly supporter.
Speaker 1: They could visit flatbushcats dot org slash donate to make
Speaker 1: a one time or recurring donation and they can keep
Speaker 1: up with all of our rescue stories and updates on Facebook, Instagram,
Speaker 1: on YouTube wherever you you like your videos.
Speaker 2: Well will thank you for all that you do. Keep
Speaker 2: fighting the good fight. And I you know when I
Speaker 2: asked you about getting into politics and you said you are,
Speaker 2: but I would really like to see you in an
Speaker 2: elected position because I think you just have the drive
Speaker 2: and the knowledge and the passion to do that. So
Speaker 2: if you ever decide to take that road.
Speaker 1: Something, I really I appreciate that. And we'll keep pushing
Speaker 1: from wherever we can. And thank everyone listening for joining
Speaker 1: us on this mission.
Speaker 2: Absolutely well, thank you again and thanks for all you do.
Speaker 2: We'll definitely talk again because I think we're going to
Speaker 2: have a lot more news too as time goes on.
Speaker 1: Let's make some news, yeah,