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Speaker 2: The Film Board gathers this month a gang comes together
Speaker 2: to talk about Ryan Cougler's latest genre blender. It's called Sinners,
Speaker 2: and it's what happens when a guy like Coogler watches
Speaker 2: interview with the Vampire, the Color Purple and Blade on
Speaker 2: the same night and thinks, Yeah, let's do all of this.
Speaker 1: We've been going a long time. Be back now, you twins, Ah,
Speaker 1: we cousins.
Speaker 3: There are legends of people with the gift of making music,
Speaker 3: so true Nick and conscious spirits from the path and
Speaker 3: the future. This gift can bring fame and fortune. Somebody
Speaker 3: take me, but it also can piece the veil between
Speaker 3: life and death.
Speaker 4: Listen here, this ain't no house party.
Speaker 1: Ship.
Speaker 3: You're all ready to drink, y'all all ready to sweat
Speaker 3: to y'all stinks you keep dancing with the devil. Careful boy,
Speaker 3: you're gonna bite off more than you can cheot. One day,
Speaker 3: he's gonna follow you home because it's a problem. Now
Speaker 3: the hell going on?
Speaker 2: Oh we heard tale of a party.
Speaker 3: This world already left you for dead. I can save
Speaker 3: you from your fate.
Speaker 2: You don't need no saving.
Speaker 3: Yes you do, and you will. I am. You're way out,
Speaker 3: don't care. It's all better now, Yes, a lot. I
Speaker 3: don't really imagine ghosts, dems, just power.
Speaker 1: Somebody please take.
Speaker 2: The moon is high, the air is thick with blues
Speaker 2: and blood, and somewhere down a dusty Mississippi back road,
Speaker 2: a juke joint that just opens its doors to the
Speaker 2: damned and to our panel. If you hear a fiddle
Speaker 2: playing behind him, it's not background music, it's a warning.
Speaker 3: It's Tommy Mets the Third, happy to be here, thank.
Speaker 2: You, and he once tried to make a deal at
Speaker 2: a crossroads but left early because the vibes were off.
Speaker 3: It's Andy Nelson, how howdy back again?
Speaker 2: This movie doesn't even start with with an A oh,
Speaker 2: that's right, that was your nor an m that was
Speaker 2: our thing? Was ms okay right and I beat right.
Speaker 2: I'm here to celebrate family trauma and the harmonica right
Speaker 2: along with the rest of you. It's sinners, my goodness,
Speaker 2: gracious Sinners.
Speaker 3: The movie was I.
Speaker 2: Think it's fair to say underappreciated early on when the
Speaker 2: news of the movie came out. I don't think a
Speaker 2: lot of people were talking about this movie as as
Speaker 2: going to be a thing, until suddenly everybody was talking
Speaker 2: about this movie as it was going to be a thing, like.
Speaker 3: All it spitting war over it. I think, I think so.
Speaker 2: It's also a legacy project. Apparently he's been working on
Speaker 2: this for in the back of his mind for years,
Speaker 2: like twenty five years, thinking about getting this movie made,
Speaker 2: and it is finally here. So let us do the
Speaker 2: the opening thoughts segment sponsored by Tom Metz. Tom, would
Speaker 2: you like to go first?
Speaker 3: Why is it sponsor byb.
Speaker 2: Because that one time you got so mad when I
Speaker 2: cut open.
Speaker 3: You went on past opening thoughts and I was like,
Speaker 3: I did, but my beautiful opening they're right here. I
Speaker 3: brought them for you, right opening thoughts. Sorry. Yes, I
Speaker 3: was excited and a little nervous about this movie because
Speaker 3: I am not a vampire head. I love horror movies,
Speaker 3: but I'm certainly vampires are not one of those. But
Speaker 3: when I saw the trailer, while I was afraid it
Speaker 3: was maybe giving a lot away, it reminded me of
Speaker 3: like what if? And I know you already did a
Speaker 3: much cleverer than this is comparison, but it seemed like
Speaker 3: what if vampires were in Black Snake Moan? Or what if?
Speaker 3: From Dust Till Dawn was good? And so I went
Speaker 3: into this hoping fingers crossed, thinking it might be a
Speaker 3: good time. And it is so much movie. It is
Speaker 3: so has so many big swings, and I loved it.
Speaker 3: I loved it so much. I thought it was outstanding,
Speaker 3: and it's so brave and weird and at times messy,
Speaker 3: and there was one point where I was like, oh no,
Speaker 3: this is the swing that's not paying off, and then
Speaker 3: it did. We'll get into it. I just really had
Speaker 3: a great, great time. This movie takes it incredibly seriously,
Speaker 3: and I'm fine with him. I love it.
Speaker 2: I'm so relieved I had. I was cursed this time
Speaker 2: around because I saw it before both of you, just
Speaker 2: in chronology, and I had to wait wondering if I
Speaker 2: was crazy, and I think, thank thank god I got
Speaker 2: to see Andy's review. Oh your I actually got to
Speaker 2: talk to him because I know where he landed.
Speaker 3: Andy, what'd you think?
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is an easy one to love. I was
Speaker 1: I was. I was already looking forward to it. I
Speaker 1: thought it would be if nothing else, it would just
Speaker 1: be a fun vampire movie to kind of like put
Speaker 1: vampires in in this the Jack Crow era South and
Speaker 1: or Jim his brother, Jim his brother he goes my
Speaker 1: check in some parts would grow Jim Crow era South.
Speaker 1: And I was like that, that's that could be fun.
Speaker 1: You know, I could have a fun time with that.
Speaker 1: And you've got Michael B. Jordan twins.
Speaker 3: I'm like, Okay, that's kind of fun.
Speaker 1: We'll see how he does kind of giving us the
Speaker 1: two variations of a character and see if I buy it.
Speaker 1: But then I was just like, as I was watching,
Speaker 1: I'm like Ryan Kugler is doing like there's an interesting
Speaker 1: element that he's throwing into the vampire story that I
Speaker 1: was really enjoying. The fact that the vampires saw what
Speaker 1: they were becoming is like this big family and it's
Speaker 1: like it didn't matter what color your skin was or anything.
Speaker 1: It's just like you're just one big family and they're
Speaker 1: all just what. They're all out there singing Irish jigs
Speaker 1: and having a grand old time, and I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: this is an interesting way to kind of look at
Speaker 1: what vampires are at this particular point in time, and
Speaker 1: I thought Ryan Kugler was doing some interesting things with it,
Speaker 1: and I.
Speaker 2: Had a lot of fun, really enjoyed it.
Speaker 3: I beat real quick. The last thing that you texted
Speaker 3: me before I saw the movie was I got you
Speaker 3: said a God, I hope I'm not an island on this,
Speaker 3: and I desperately wanted to write back after I saw
Speaker 3: the movie. I'm sure the islands are nice this time,
Speaker 3: but I loved it. Yeah, that was that was gonna
Speaker 3: be real, real.
Speaker 2: Sad this this movie. I this is you know, every
Speaker 2: once in a while, I come across a movie where
Speaker 2: I really regret having seen the trailer. And I think
Speaker 2: this movie's marketing, you know, was a bit of a
Speaker 2: betrayal to some things that I thought were really fun
Speaker 2: and and I wish I could have felt the more
Speaker 2: original excitement, uh in those moments even as they were
Speaker 2: they were playing by because I'd seen them. And yet
Speaker 2: this is still I mean, like Andy said, this is
Speaker 2: an easy movie to love. This movie is doing so much.
Speaker 2: The fact that it's what an hour before we get
Speaker 2: into some serious juke joint territory, before we start seeing
Speaker 2: smoking guy running across the prairie like this. Uh, this
Speaker 2: movie takes such time and care and patience to deliver
Speaker 2: these characters in such a robust way, like I really
Speaker 2: feel like we can know them. And I guess, as
Speaker 2: I say, I regret I saw the trailer. I apparently
Speaker 2: didn't watch the trailer closely enough because in the trailer,
Speaker 2: Michael B. Jordan says, to you know, the clan guy
Speaker 2: when he says, are you two twins? He says, nah,
Speaker 2: we cousins. I thought I took that at face value.
Speaker 2: I was like, clearly their cousins, and he just casts
Speaker 2: somebody looks an awful lot like Michael B.
Speaker 1: Jordan.
Speaker 2: This The twinning was amazing in this movie was just outstanding.
Speaker 2: It was cast perfectly. I just love it. I am exuberant.
Speaker 2: I walked out and I immediately wanted to go see
Speaker 2: it again. So, like we said, this movie was kind
Speaker 2: of a big deal for Koogler. It's his first holy
Speaker 2: original screenplan, right. I mean, I guess if you don't
Speaker 2: count you know, Dracula as original material, it's his first
Speaker 2: solely original thing. Even Fruitvale Station was an adaptation of
Speaker 2: something else, And you know, I find him an original director,
Speaker 2: even when working in franchises like Rocky. What did you
Speaker 2: think of the cooglarness of this thing?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I think that I mean, I think
Speaker 1: Coogler is doing a lot to give us, to really
Speaker 1: give us a sense of this world, and he's shaping
Speaker 1: it fully by you know, as you guys have pointed out,
Speaker 1: we're really not even getting into the vampire part of
Speaker 1: the story until a full hour in. That's a lot
Speaker 1: of time to spend with us getting to know who
Speaker 1: these characters are, getting a sense of the difference between
Speaker 1: Smoke and Stack as far as like their interests, their
Speaker 1: love interests, what they're both kind of like the attitude
Speaker 1: and everything. And also you're meeting all these different people
Speaker 1: in town, in and around town who are part of
Speaker 1: their lives, who might be helping them getting the jukes
Speaker 1: juke joints set up, or you know, former relationships, whatever.
Speaker 1: You're really kind of getting this sense of them, and
Speaker 1: you're getting a sense of the presence that these two
Speaker 1: carry just by name, like everybody knows the Smokestack twins.
Speaker 1: And I think that's it creates such an interesting way
Speaker 1: to set our story up. And I think that that's
Speaker 1: what Coogler did exceptionally is just take the time to
Speaker 1: build this world and really give us, give us a
Speaker 1: sense of these characters. The importance of music, I think
Speaker 1: was such a key thing, and obviously it has been
Speaker 1: for him in so many of his films because the
Speaker 1: I mean obviously his working relationships with Ludwig Gornson, who
Speaker 1: has been composing his music now also executive producing the movie.
Speaker 1: I mean, clearly he sees music as like a critical
Speaker 1: element of the story, and to bring it into this
Speaker 1: one in such a key way I think was a
Speaker 1: part that probably was very important to Coogler to bring
Speaker 1: into the story, but also ended up becoming such a
Speaker 1: kind of an amazing way to kind of tie this
Speaker 1: world together, I think. So, I mean, those are elements
Speaker 1: that I definitely see that Coogler's bringing in just his
Speaker 1: passion for capturing fantastic images, you know. I mean, I
Speaker 1: saw this in the seventy millimeter imax. I was lucky
Speaker 1: to have it in town here, and I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of the film, I mean, maybe I don't know
Speaker 1: two thirds is in the real wide screen that two
Speaker 1: eight five to one, But then when it just goes
Speaker 1: full screen, and some of those images. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: just it's kind of explosive. It's just amazing what he
Speaker 1: captured and how powerful those images hit.
Speaker 2: Interesting note Autumn derald Arkapa is the cinematographer behind this one,
Speaker 2: and she is the first woman to shoot a feature
Speaker 2: on large format IMAX.
Speaker 3: Wow that's great. Why just never thinking? Awesome?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely fantastic. So Tom, what's your what's your sense
Speaker 2: of this stuff? The look, the feel, the koogleritis?
Speaker 3: Sure, I like, I love everything that Andy said, So
Speaker 3: go ahead, and like I want to rerecord his thoughts,
Speaker 3: okay with my voice and.
Speaker 2: You can lay those I'm gonna have AI to this.
Speaker 3: In addition, it makes a lot of sense that you say,
Speaker 3: I didn't realize that this was sort of a legacy
Speaker 3: something that he has been wanting to do for a
Speaker 3: long time. It really feels that way. This film feels
Speaker 3: incredibly confident in a way that just it feels like
Speaker 3: he takes some as to use my own phrases, he
Speaker 3: takes some really big swings. I mean, there are musical sequences.
Speaker 3: There's an entire sequence where the one I'll go ahead
Speaker 3: and get it out of the way, the one that
Speaker 3: I was worried about is when the electric guitar shows up,
Speaker 3: when the when the guy is showing you know how
Speaker 3: well he can sing, and I was like, oh, no, okay,
Speaker 3: we're trying something out here, and then it ended up
Speaker 3: being one of my favorite parts of the entire movie,
Speaker 3: bringing in all of the cultures, all of those different
Speaker 3: things into one incredible sequence. Also the singing the Irish
Speaker 3: jigs out in the woods like Andy said, and the
Speaker 3: really easy sort of choreography, the simplistic kind of stuff
Speaker 3: of that, they were just incredible sequences after incredible sequences.
Speaker 3: And then also this movie really felt incredibly cinematic while
Speaker 3: never feeling like a movie. It just feels so lived in.
Speaker 3: And I love the importance of like watching the woman
Speaker 3: go across the street to or the follow the daughter
Speaker 3: to relieve the mother's for the mother to come up,
Speaker 3: because it just makes that whole world seem completely three
Speaker 3: sixty that you can turn everywhere, and it's just perfect
Speaker 3: and so lived in and so much fun. And my
Speaker 3: biggest compliment I can give it is before the vampires
Speaker 3: showed up, I was fine with the movie we were in,
Speaker 3: and when the vampires showed up, I was equally as
Speaker 3: fine with the movie now instead of like waiting for
Speaker 3: things to happen, I could have lived in either world
Speaker 3: the entire time. And what a world it is. It's
Speaker 3: it's in a huge world. For a two hour movie.
Speaker 3: It feels like a legendary night. It really does without
Speaker 3: feeling overlong. So I was a huge, huge fan.
Speaker 2: Do you guys have any experience in that part of
Speaker 2: the country, and you know, have you ever been to
Speaker 2: a juke joint?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yes to the first. I don't know for the
Speaker 3: second one, but yes to the first. I mean, I
Speaker 3: have family members that live in towns that have been
Speaker 3: restructured and have different names because they were trying to
Speaker 3: keep certain races out. Yeah, there there are certain there.
Speaker 3: Some of them still live in towns where there are
Speaker 3: black establishments and white establishments and they just don't really cross.
Speaker 2: It's an amazing part of the country. I actually it's
Speaker 2: it's almost embarrassing to talk about it, but I was
Speaker 2: on a I was on a trip with some some
Speaker 2: guys who were going down to learn about the Mississippi
Speaker 2: Blues the Delta. We were doing the Blues Triangle, and
Speaker 2: so we actually spent some time in Clarksdale, where this
Speaker 2: movie is set. And we went to unincorporated Bolivar County, Mississippi,
Speaker 2: where the last juke joint was when it was still open.
Speaker 2: It's called Poe Monkey's Juke Joint, and it literally is
Speaker 2: still powered by the whole building is still powered by
Speaker 2: like extension cables to a trunk on a pole that's
Speaker 2: very far away, like they have to plug the building
Speaker 2: in on the edge. It's a place that has been
Speaker 2: around so long that people used to play pay for
Speaker 2: their booze with sharecropper Wooden Nichols.
Speaker 3: And the movie it's incredible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this this was filmed in Louisiana. The
Speaker 2: whole thing is from Louisiana. But I'll show you maybe
Speaker 2: after some of the pictures of Clarksdale so you can
Speaker 2: see what it looks like like it looks it felt
Speaker 2: so familiar and so the movie, Like when I saw it,
Speaker 2: it was not in great straits, right, it's not looking great,
Speaker 2: but the movie made it made this whole era feel
Speaker 2: so optimistic and hopeful and good right like even when
Speaker 2: they were you know, when he was out there and
Speaker 2: he shot the guy in the butt and the other
Speaker 2: guy in the knee for seiling, there was such an
Speaker 2: air of like weird kindness around, like I regret doing that,
Speaker 2: but I had to shoot you in the butt and
Speaker 2: you in the knee because you know, I have a reputation.
Speaker 3: But they were all going to give you money to
Speaker 3: get patched. Yeah, I actually one to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly exactly, So I found I'm I'm That was
Speaker 2: what I was going to say too, Tom that that
Speaker 2: the movie that they gave me to start with was
Speaker 2: fantastic already, Like I wanted to see how that played out.
Speaker 2: I could have sat in that for you know, another
Speaker 2: hour and twenty minutes, and then it turns around and
Speaker 2: gives us this incredible cultural explation of music. Do you
Speaker 2: listen to blues? Do you have the blues in your bones?
Speaker 3: You? Guys? I had a friend growing up I'm still
Speaker 3: a very very good friend of mine, Jason Small, and
Speaker 3: he used to listen to blues when everyone else was
Speaker 3: listening to Nirpana. So he got me into like Muddy Waters.
Speaker 3: I never really got into it, but I was aware
Speaker 3: of it, and now I love that music very much. Yeah,
Speaker 3: as I said, you know the aforementioned black Snake moan,
Speaker 3: Like I love that kind of slide guitar any of
Speaker 3: that stuff feels. So that's the other thing. This felt
Speaker 3: like I was watching a live performance. Yeah, some of
Speaker 3: the music things, and that's really hard to capture on film.
Speaker 3: It's always just like, oh, whose friend's band is this?
Speaker 3: Like what is the relation to the director? Because it's
Speaker 3: just this weird cameo, And instead I felt like I
Speaker 3: was really in there.
Speaker 1: Well and I uh, I mean, obviously it has to
Speaker 1: be because of casting Miles Katan or cat and however
Speaker 1: say his last name, but who I mean, this is
Speaker 1: his first film, but I mean clearly he's a musician
Speaker 1: and clearly he's got had an incredible voice and delivered
Speaker 1: the performance.
Speaker 3: Face yeah, because voice almost seems dubbed in a cool way.
Speaker 3: It was.
Speaker 1: It was wild to see him and like, did you
Speaker 1: see at the very very end of the credits that
Speaker 1: the last old performance by him? It was, Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just cool to see him delivering on that music and
Speaker 1: you can just you can tell that more than filmmaking perhaps,
Speaker 1: like music is wholly in his blood.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to show you Poe Monkeys just
Speaker 2: because I found a picture of it. Oh wow, nice,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's the juke joint, right, there.
Speaker 3: That's what they look like.
Speaker 2: And they all they were, They littered the landscape of
Speaker 2: of these plantations, these sharecropper plantations.
Speaker 3: And because it looks tiny, maybe just.
Speaker 2: It is tiny, but it's also very long, like it
Speaker 2: goes back a little bit of a ways, right, and so,
Speaker 2: but but it is deceiving. You're you were jammed in
Speaker 2: there when you go in and there is all the
Speaker 2: dancing and all of the booze and all of the
Speaker 2: But again, the thing that I get away from it
Speaker 2: that I think this movie does so well is it
Speaker 2: celebrates the good feeling when you are in there and
Speaker 2: you know, I we walk in, as you know, a
Speaker 2: bunch of white men and we're definitely it felt a
Speaker 2: little bit shameful as kind of a tourist in this
Speaker 2: culture we were, and yet we were welcome. We were welcomed,
Speaker 2: and Poe Monkey himself came and sat down with us,
Speaker 2: and I mean it was and that's what this movie did.
Speaker 2: I mean that I was really moved.
Speaker 3: When you were visiting it. Did you have to wait
Speaker 3: to be invited in? There was?
Speaker 2: There was no question. Nobody stopped at the door. And
Speaker 2: so so that piece I think is, you know, when
Speaker 2: when it turns into a different kind of movie. Uh,
Speaker 2: and we get to see how these people kind of
Speaker 2: adjust and adapt.
Speaker 3: What do you think.
Speaker 2: Think is the importance of the vampire story to this movie?
Speaker 2: Do you put any thought to that?
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I think that's what you know. I
Speaker 1: found so interesting is that it was creating. Like, I mean,
Speaker 1: we get this sense of, Okay, it's these two well
Speaker 1: to do brothers who went to Chicago, supposedly made their
Speaker 1: fortune and now are buying this building from clearly in KKK. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean he says there's no KKDA on here, but
Speaker 1: you kind of get a look at him. You're like, yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's a member. And so you're getting a sense
Speaker 1: of the already a sense of kind of this time,
Speaker 1: this time in the South, and you're getting a sense that, Okay,
Speaker 1: these guys might be able to handle it. But I mean,
Speaker 1: even without the vampires, we end up seeing where that
Speaker 1: full story goes as we get to the end of
Speaker 1: the film. And so the vampire story this one where
Speaker 1: he's like they're just all one big family. Now they
Speaker 1: all share each other's thoughts and it's just like we're
Speaker 1: all in happy and we love each other and like
Speaker 1: that's what Hayley Steinfeld's character says at one point. She's
Speaker 1: just like, once we kill you, we'll all be It's
Speaker 1: just all love. Like just like such an interesting way
Speaker 1: to take that vampire story and thematically put it into
Speaker 1: the deep redneck South, And I just thought that was
Speaker 1: an interesting way to kind of use the vampire mythos
Speaker 1: to kind of craft this story. And then we have
Speaker 1: all of the people singing this, you know, the fantastic
Speaker 1: irish jig that they do, and they're all in it,
Speaker 1: like they're all having a grand old time. They're all
Speaker 1: dancing and thumping and the main guy is doing his
Speaker 1: little jig and everything, and like it was a blast watch.
Speaker 1: And they're all as passionate with that song as when
Speaker 1: we were in the club and they were singing that
Speaker 1: song in there. It's like that music that connects us
Speaker 1: was like an important part of it. But it was
Speaker 1: just like then taking the vamporism as another element, I
Speaker 1: thought was such an interesting way to kind of use
Speaker 1: that myth.
Speaker 3: Because the vampires, what they're talking about is assimilation. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it would become one of us, join us. It seems
Speaker 3: like this movie in part is one of the ways,
Speaker 3: saying the only way that can ever work is to
Speaker 3: be damned, like, there's no good way to do that.
Speaker 3: The Jack O'Connor Connell Connor, my apologies. I think O'Connell
Speaker 3: talks about how you know, the Christians came in or
Speaker 3: the Catholics, whoever it was, came in and robbed him
Speaker 3: of his life, but then he sort of took on
Speaker 3: some of their stuff. I don't it's not a great
Speaker 3: deal that the vampires are talking about.
Speaker 1: No, no, but it seems so interesting.
Speaker 3: It's like the only way and it's really cool, like
Speaker 3: to Andy's point to put it in the Gym South,
Speaker 3: which is all about okay, we've brought you here, you
Speaker 3: have won your freedom, and yet everything is based in
Speaker 3: keeping us apart. Right. All the lines are about gatekeeping. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like it's it's kind of like they're the one
Speaker 3: thing that united everybody is music. That's the one through line.
Speaker 2: That's it, right, Yeah, but the music was very different, right,
Speaker 2: And I think that's it. These are the perils of God,
Speaker 2: Jim Crow South, the perils of integration and the performative
Speaker 2: integration that comes from plantation, these sharecropper plantations, and that
Speaker 2: was a really interesting model for me to watch them
Speaker 2: talk about how like we're gonna have to use American
Speaker 2: like real federal currency. We can't use these wooden nickels.
Speaker 2: Well they're good at the general store. Well, that's part
Speaker 2: of the integration story. That is performative, that is fake
Speaker 2: that you know, this is a way we're going to
Speaker 2: keep you separate from us. So, yeah, to your point,
Speaker 2: it's not a good deal. It's giving up who you are,
Speaker 2: your own identity in exchange for yeah, being damned. I
Speaker 2: think that's for in exchange for for nothing. And I
Speaker 2: think that makes it such a much more interesting story
Speaker 2: than just another vampire story. It's a story about systemic
Speaker 2: oppression and uh and and what an entire culture had
Speaker 2: to leave behind in order to find some way forward
Speaker 2: by way of integration and uh it and the loss
Speaker 2: that comes from this is this is like a movie
Speaker 2: that is as much about mourning the loss of all
Speaker 2: that identity as it is about you know, fighting the bloodsuckers.
Speaker 3: And try and tribalism across the board. Yeah, we are
Speaker 3: hinted later at that they set off a war between
Speaker 3: the Italians and the Irish yep in order to steal
Speaker 3: all their stuff and like this, I mean, it's just yeah,
Speaker 3: it's the needing to take over instead of all being
Speaker 3: able to live separately equally. UH is also touched.
Speaker 1: On, and we also get this going back to the music.
Speaker 1: They're drawn here because of the music that Sammy can
Speaker 1: sing like he is one of these you know, we
Speaker 1: get at the beginning, like these certain people who can
Speaker 1: create such music that it can like touch on like
Speaker 1: this cosmic level other people. And that's like that was
Speaker 1: this draw for these vampires like he. When Remick comes,
Speaker 1: he recognizes that you're the reason that we're here, Like,
Speaker 1: I need that because that can be the connection that
Speaker 1: I need to get back to some of those other elements.
Speaker 2: Fascinating what talk more about that, because that was the
Speaker 2: piece that It's not like I didn't find it sort
Speaker 2: of beautiful in its own right, but he the head vampire,
Speaker 2: was going to use Sammy to unlock his connection to
Speaker 2: his own ancestry.
Speaker 3: You're in his past that the music can transcend life
Speaker 3: and death and can grit so the people that he's
Speaker 3: lost after being alive for nine zillion vampire years, I
Speaker 3: think he would be able to bridge that connection.
Speaker 1: Okay, Like what we see during that performance, like you're
Speaker 1: seeing music from the past, from the future, from all
Speaker 1: these different cultures like coming together, Like that would be
Speaker 1: his way to kind of like reach out to those
Speaker 1: voices from his own past.
Speaker 3: It's almost like how Michael B. Jordan is able to
Speaker 3: see his wife and his child, but he had to
Speaker 3: die to do it. I think the idea is you
Speaker 3: would be able to have that connection without having to
Speaker 3: leave the I was gonna say mortal coil, but that's
Speaker 3: not exactly the vampire whatever.
Speaker 1: Colo immortal, the immortal immortal coil.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's just a real sort of Jacob's ladder journey, right,
Speaker 2: Like the sort of transcendent piece I find really interesting,
Speaker 2: And you guys appreciated that piece of it, right, the
Speaker 2: musical transcendence.
Speaker 1: Okay, I was going to say, did you not know?
Speaker 3: I did?
Speaker 1: Very very much? Are you kidding?
Speaker 3: In the bag for this movie? That's really the lifeblood
Speaker 3: of the movie. And it's almost like it's the way
Speaker 3: I'm sort of chasing this thought like a hound. But
Speaker 3: it's almost like the way that skin color or race
Speaker 3: connects people, or tribalism connects people. You know that they're
Speaker 3: saying that music is something that can cross, all boundaries
Speaker 3: can cross. Everything really brings us together no matter what.
Speaker 1: And what was so interesting about that is when we
Speaker 1: have that performance at the heart of the film, when
Speaker 1: when what the narrator comes in and is talking about
Speaker 1: how music can transcend you know, space and time. Essentially,
Speaker 1: we're getting a lot of other African Americans performing those songs.
Speaker 1: But once we move into to Grace and follow her
Speaker 1: as she goes into the back room to follow, you know,
Speaker 1: to find her husband where he's gambling, this is our
Speaker 1: Chinese couple. Suddenly we're seeing Chinese performers and everything, and
Speaker 1: so it's like it doesn't matter. It's just like once
Speaker 1: you hear it and once it touches your soul, it
Speaker 1: kind of transcends whatever it is and you're in a
Speaker 1: place where where it's connecting to you.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, just beautiful, absolutely beautiful. Okay, let's talk about
Speaker 2: Michael B. Jordan playing the Twins. Technically, technically, I did
Speaker 2: not see anything that took me out of the movie.
Speaker 2: And they were doing some amazing things with the twinning.
Speaker 2: They were handing the cigarettes back and forth, they were
Speaker 2: I think the way that.
Speaker 3: They start what I was talking to the confidence of
Speaker 3: this movie. That's such a in a cool way, show
Speaker 3: offye way to show how perfect it is. I just
Speaker 3: what I was laughing about, was I just I wonder
Speaker 3: if Barry Alto Knights Levinson has seen this movie and been.
Speaker 2: Like, oh, are you doing it?
Speaker 3: It's not just new people on opposite sides of the
Speaker 3: screen staring right with a clear line in the wall between. No,
Speaker 3: it's I mean, it's done so well and it knows
Speaker 3: it and so right off the bat, it's breaking rules.
Speaker 3: Like I just don't understand how they did it other
Speaker 3: than with modeled body doubling, you know, or masking or
Speaker 3: something like that. But it's incredible, and they were so
Speaker 3: cool and lived in they're both I want to hang
Speaker 3: out with those guys, and they would not like it. No,
Speaker 3: not at all.
Speaker 1: I I my guess, And I can't remember if I
Speaker 1: actually heard this or not. Was but that it was
Speaker 1: like a social network type of like body doubling with
Speaker 1: somebody and then they just did the facial replacements as
Speaker 1: needed in order to make it work. And I mean,
Speaker 1: that's the only way that really makes sense, the way
Speaker 1: that they were they were filming it.
Speaker 2: Sure, thank god it worked. It worked, and he played
Speaker 2: it really really well. I mean the fact that they
Speaker 2: were twins and already like felt you know, you could
Speaker 2: obviously see their similarities, but where you see their differences
Speaker 2: in their behavior and their you know, the way they
Speaker 2: move and the way they speak, I thought was just
Speaker 2: really special, really really special.
Speaker 3: And especially subtle. It wasn't over the top of like
Speaker 3: one of them's like hey, get a load of me, like.
Speaker 3: It was very They were both like tweens, right, they
Speaker 3: were extremely strong. You understand why they're both revered and feared,
Speaker 3: but they're just different ways. I was personally thankful for
Speaker 3: the red hat, blue hat at times, yeah, just where
Speaker 3: they weren't speaking it that helped me remember who exactly
Speaker 3: are we dealing with?
Speaker 2: But yeah, well and also the teeth, right, the gold teeth.
Speaker 2: Thought that was a nice touch. That was a really
Speaker 2: nice touch.
Speaker 1: It also worked just like the relationships that they had,
Speaker 1: like and I really liked that we had fleshed out
Speaker 1: relationships between each of them that I really enjoyed kind
Speaker 1: of seeing how they were going to unfold. And I
Speaker 1: think playing off of the you know, both Hailee Steinfeld
Speaker 1: and wound me Masaku, like Coogler does a great job
Speaker 1: of fully building relationships, like a history each of them
Speaker 1: in ways that made me really buy into the fact
Speaker 1: that these are two people who have created two separate
Speaker 1: lives with different people.
Speaker 3: That's a great point.
Speaker 2: The the Chinese couple, the Chows, I think, I mean,
Speaker 2: I obviously I was in the bag for this movie,
Speaker 2: but I think the moment they opened their mouths and
Speaker 2: had Southern accents, I thought, this is he's done something
Speaker 2: really really special. He's done something right. Like they felt
Speaker 2: as lived in as any other characters, and again as
Speaker 2: part of that community in downtown Clarksdale, you know, as
Speaker 2: you know, speaking the lingo, speaking the sort of negotiative
Speaker 2: lingo that that they're you know, of being store owners.
Speaker 2: I thought was just just really really perfect. The fact
Speaker 2: that she's the one to break down in the end
Speaker 2: at seeing her husband.
Speaker 1: It was.
Speaker 2: It was a really incredible, like a signature moment of
Speaker 2: the film. I'm curious how that impacted you, when she screams,
Speaker 2: get in get in here.
Speaker 3: Essentially loved it so much, And when I saw that
Speaker 3: it was coming, when they start covering her mouth and stuff,
Speaker 3: I started bouncing up and down in my seat. One
Speaker 3: of the reasons that I loved it so much. Was
Speaker 3: it was a purposeful move made out of anger instead
Speaker 3: of Oops, I got duped or I'm so sad that
Speaker 3: I'm doing this. Instead it was it wasn't come on in.
Speaker 3: It was come on in mother efforts because I need
Speaker 3: my vengeance. Yeah, I mean you have destroyed and are
Speaker 3: risking destroying the rest of my life, and so I
Speaker 3: love that instead of someone because we already had people
Speaker 3: sort of like accidentally limping and falling into a pile
Speaker 3: of vampires. To have it be this whole team of like, okay,
Speaker 3: and then they all run and get the supplies and
Speaker 3: stuff outstanding, Yeah, so good.
Speaker 2: They're all on the same absolute, the same sort of
Speaker 2: emotional page. Like if it wasn't her, it very well
Speaker 2: could have been anybody else in the in the building
Speaker 2: at that point.
Speaker 1: It very well come So many of them had lost
Speaker 1: people that they need and loved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it was actually going to it was Michael B.
Speaker 3: Jordan was the one that was almost going to sadly
Speaker 3: strumble outside until they brought him back. Right, a brave
Speaker 3: decision to make.
Speaker 2: The movie is really straight across the bow with the
Speaker 2: Book of the Vampire. Right, in terms of the rules.
Speaker 2: I think one of the things that we get with
Speaker 2: with modern vampire movies is, you know, there is some
Speaker 2: sort of we're gonna we're gonna like really push our
Speaker 2: own kind of vampire. This is this felt like a
Speaker 2: really stereotypical, classical vampire. Right from the first kill that
Speaker 2: we see, where Remick kills the clan member in the
Speaker 2: house in the beginning. He had only killed him moments before,
Speaker 2: and he got up again and was now a vampire.
Speaker 2: That was a really efficient to keep this movie kind
Speaker 2: of propulsive, to keep it it moving like a freight train,
Speaker 2: when we don't have to wait for the victims to
Speaker 2: turn into vampires. What's your sense of how the movie
Speaker 2: handles the rest of the lore? And Tom, I'm want
Speaker 2: to start with you because you're the one who brought
Speaker 2: the Book of the Vampire to Sitting in the Dark
Speaker 2: in the first place.
Speaker 3: I started to get when it started with the cave
Speaker 3: paintings or whatever you want to call that, and talking
Speaker 3: about the different people that have different words for this.
Speaker 3: I did start to get a little nervous when movies
Speaker 3: start like that. I always like, I was like, oh, no,
Speaker 3: is this another lady in the water, Like where it's
Speaker 3: going to lose itself in the lore. Instead, it was
Speaker 3: done extremely economically and just when you needed maybe a
Speaker 3: little reminder, certain people needed it. He was really good
Speaker 3: about flashing back, bringing the narration back in to help
Speaker 3: understand why there's an electric guitar guy, you know, in
Speaker 3: the bar. I thought it worked really well and it
Speaker 3: really helped let you know, from the beginning, keep your
Speaker 3: eyes well, keep your ears on the music. That's what
Speaker 3: this movie is about. There's gonna be a lot of
Speaker 3: stuff in this movie, but really it's the music is
Speaker 3: the unifying thing. So I thought it worked really well. Well.
Speaker 1: I then give us a sense of, you know, especially
Speaker 1: through Annie's character, a sense already of a character who
Speaker 1: is kind of connected to some sort of spiritual, mythological
Speaker 1: sort of whatever it is. She's doing the voodoo. I
Speaker 1: don't know what she is. She's got all of her
Speaker 1: little things that she's doing, so she already has that
Speaker 1: sort of thing, and she actually calls it out at
Speaker 1: one point of like their hates whatever, and yeah, so
Speaker 1: she's got this sense of something until she realizes that
Speaker 1: they're vampires. And so they are already setting up a
Speaker 1: story about people who have a sense of like there
Speaker 1: could be things like this out there, you know, and
Speaker 1: just oh that most people don't actually see them. And
Speaker 1: then when it turns into the vampires. I liked that
Speaker 1: they kept it kind of also along the kind of
Speaker 1: mythological lines, like it's just kind of this like, yeah,
Speaker 1: they bite someone, and within a couple of minutes they're
Speaker 1: standing back up ready to fight. They don't heal like
Speaker 1: the one guy who gets shot in the face, like
Speaker 1: his jaws like hanging.
Speaker 3: Off the rest of the rest of the movie.
Speaker 1: It's not like self heal like you see in some
Speaker 1: of them, or or or anything like that. It's just
Speaker 1: they are. They are kind of vampiric. You've got the garlic,
Speaker 1: you've got the sunlight, You've got all of those different
Speaker 1: things that they just kind of keep in there. But
Speaker 1: it all kind of because we had that kind of
Speaker 1: sense to something else already. It just kind of added
Speaker 1: to that spiritual flavor. I liked the way that they
Speaker 1: developed it.
Speaker 2: I found it really refreshing to go back to just
Speaker 2: some basics. I don't have to learn about people have,
Speaker 2: Oh they have shiny skin, can't they sparkle when they
Speaker 2: go outside? I don't have to learn new rules. Like
Speaker 2: I felt like this movie it was shorthand for my
Speaker 2: introduction to this universe. I was being introduced to a
Speaker 2: lot of new cultural concepts. But you didn't have to
Speaker 2: teach me about vampires because I understood the rule set
Speaker 2: going in, and I thought that was great. The one
Speaker 2: thing that did confuse me, if I'm going to, you know,
Speaker 2: push my glasses up on my nose, the people who
Speaker 2: became vampires in the juke joint? Why did they have
Speaker 2: to be asked in again?
Speaker 1: Because they were outside when they like they It's not
Speaker 1: like they were inside as humans. They got attacked outside
Speaker 1: of the juke joint, so they didn't get it, so
Speaker 1: they're outside now they have to get asked back in again.
Speaker 2: But let's say with the twins Stoke Broke, Smoke, Smoke
Speaker 2: or Stack, one of them was turned into a vampire
Speaker 2: in the building, but then he couldn't come back in
Speaker 2: once he left until.
Speaker 1: He were invited.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I have a flag on the field,
Speaker 3: am I right? I don't know. I don't know that anyway.
Speaker 2: Too long during the movie, I was like, come on,
Speaker 2: somebody explained why they have to guy, I mean, we're
Speaker 2: really so yeah, that was that was but he's.
Speaker 1: The only one that we have that issue with. Everyone
Speaker 1: else was turned to vampire outside.
Speaker 2: You're right, you're right. I was thinking Hailey Seinfeld was,
Speaker 2: but she was invited back in Cornbread letter in yeah right,
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 3: I liked the the thing slashed the faculty pass around
Speaker 3: the thing to see who is the hidden vampire within
Speaker 3: this and this time it's garlic. I was wondering, I
Speaker 3: just I love the idea of I was like, how
Speaker 3: are they why would they have garlic? And then the
Speaker 3: idea that it's pickled garlic was something that you would eat.
Speaker 3: That just seems like the kind of thing that Ryan Cooglo,
Speaker 3: who's writing is like, nice, yeah, no kidding, we already
Speaker 3: had chairs, but how am I going to get garlic
Speaker 3: in there? Oh? Perfect to your point about the short
Speaker 3: pand and how refreshing it was. It was also cool
Speaker 3: that she just used the word vampires instead of walking dead,
Speaker 3: day walkers, night walkers, like it's just like but I
Speaker 3: also want to underline Andy's I didn't think about that.
Speaker 3: The sheer importance of having the hoodoo that his wife
Speaker 3: ex wife was have that in the world really does
Speaker 3: smooth the gears. That's not a phrase, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean? It really it lets it all sort of
Speaker 3: seem like the world has lived in instead of just
Speaker 3: a weird train that comes out of nowhere. Yeah, which
Speaker 3: I think, like Dustill Dawn is.
Speaker 2: You think Dustill Done' is a weird train.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well, because.
Speaker 3: It's just because I was. I was enjoying the movie
Speaker 3: so much, and then the Vampire started and I didn't
Speaker 3: think I thought the transition was incredibly inelegant and played
Speaker 3: for laughs but also tried to play it just didn't work.
Speaker 3: That was just two movies colliding. This felt like when
Speaker 3: like one of my favorite things that movies do, and
Speaker 3: this movie did a great job, is when you know
Speaker 3: we're leading towards this big event. He gathered all the troops,
Speaker 3: everyone's getting in their cars and is high really big.
Speaker 3: It might as well be like drum beats, like heading
Speaker 3: into They're all going to the place that we're going
Speaker 3: to be spending the rest of the movie to try
Speaker 3: to find out how does this leak link to the
Speaker 3: Cold Open. It's just all that big, big stuff that
Speaker 3: I love so much. It's really neat to treat it
Speaker 3: like that. That's sorry. Why I brought that up. Is
Speaker 3: that's a movie that is taking you on the ride.
Speaker 3: It's treating its nose. We're going into battle, so let's
Speaker 3: send the score through the roof. Let's see everybody and
Speaker 3: where we are versus just Okay, there's the guy from
Speaker 3: Cheech and Chong screaming at you from the front door.
Speaker 3: Apparently I've seen From Dustill Down too many times.
Speaker 2: I haven't seen it in a long time. I feel
Speaker 2: like I need to watch it again. But to your
Speaker 2: point about this movie, that transition actually as surprising as
Speaker 2: it could have been had I not known it was
Speaker 2: a vampire movie. It is an elegant transition. Like it
Speaker 2: does feel like they're they've been insinuating it the entire time.
Speaker 2: It's very very powerful. Is Delroy Lindo your favorite character
Speaker 2: in the band for sure?
Speaker 3: And why I'll make the decision for us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved I sometimes have issues with del Roy
Speaker 2: Lindo sometimes like I'm kind of hot and cold. I
Speaker 2: am very hot on del Roy Lindo in this movie.
Speaker 2: I thought he was exemplary.
Speaker 3: Yep, I completely agree. He's a great addition to it.
Speaker 1: I don't know when you would have problems with Delroy Lindo.
Speaker 1: I just always enjoy him and I think he's just
Speaker 1: so great here. I had I had such a great
Speaker 1: time with him, with his character as the one who
Speaker 1: had had so much Irish beerau that he could barely
Speaker 1: stomach eating a clove of garlic. And it almost gets
Speaker 1: shot for it, like it just it played really well,
Speaker 1: and he's just he is just a lot of fun.
Speaker 1: He clearly was having a fun time with this one well.
Speaker 2: And he gets he gets the monologue right. He gets
Speaker 2: a wonderful, wonderful car ride monologue about you know, his experience.
Speaker 2: I thought he was He just delivered it perfectly. And
Speaker 2: they do. They get a lot of i'll say it
Speaker 2: out loud, a lot of mileage out of car trips
Speaker 2: in this movie. And I think they do it really well.
Speaker 2: I loved when Sammy starts playing the guitar in the car.
Speaker 2: What a fantastic moment for them to share, you know,
Speaker 2: surprising Smoke with his talent and joy for playing the music.
Speaker 2: I thought it was really really fantastic. He grows up
Speaker 2: Sammy to be Buddy Guy. He you know, a great
Speaker 2: renown blues musician, Buddy Guy. Just I mean that was
Speaker 2: if you if you follow the Blues, that's stunt casting
Speaker 2: if I've ever seen it.
Speaker 3: I didn't realize does buddy guy have a scar or
Speaker 3: they're just putting it? Okay, got it. I didn't realize
Speaker 3: that that was I knew it was a real Blues person,
Speaker 3: but I didn't know who that was. Okay, that's yeah,
Speaker 3: really cool.
Speaker 2: I thought it really really cool to see him, to
Speaker 2: get him, you know, playing, and to have there's this
Speaker 2: moment at the end. This is where so that the
Speaker 2: way the movie wraps up. If I'm reading people who
Speaker 2: have their four four and a half star reviews of
Speaker 2: this movie, it's because of a couple of elements at
Speaker 2: the end. So let me just back up a little bit.
Speaker 2: The vampire part of the movie ends, and everybody you
Speaker 2: know gets out and does their thing. If they get out,
Speaker 2: we have the massive fire tornado. As Remick disappears, we
Speaker 2: have all the other vampires that were outside. The sun
Speaker 2: comes up and they flame on and it's amazing. I
Speaker 2: thought that the shot was beautiful. It was captured well,
Speaker 2: and that part of the story ends. The next little
Speaker 2: chapter after we get back to the cold open kind
Speaker 2: of to bookend it, Sammy goes home. That next little
Speaker 2: chapter is the arrival of the clan, led by the
Speaker 2: guy who sold them the barn in the first place,
Speaker 2: and they come with their guns, but wait a minute,
Speaker 2: Michael b Jordan is ready for them and ambushes them,
Speaker 2: and along the way he gets himself shot. The clan
Speaker 2: bit is the first of these elements that it seems
Speaker 2: like people might be having a little bit of trouble with,
Speaker 2: because that is a major action scene that feels a
Speaker 2: touch shoehorned in. The next element is this love letter
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety six back to the Back to the
Speaker 2: Blues bit, where Hailey Steinfeld and Michael b Jordan's show
Speaker 2: up in their fantastic nineties sweaters and have it's like
Speaker 2: a love letter to the blues music.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: Yes we're vampires, Yes we've lived all this time, we
Speaker 2: haven't changed. We're beautiful people. Also, the last thing my
Speaker 2: brother said before he let me live was I have
Speaker 2: to leave you alone. And so instead I've bought all
Speaker 2: your albums and I'm a fan. That was a love
Speaker 2: letter too, as much to Sammy as it was to
Speaker 2: but Guy. And then we have the final you know
Speaker 2: sequence at the end where we have him playing just
Speaker 2: alone in the church Miles Castle. Yeah, this little light
Speaker 2: of mine, beautiful, beautiful piece. I as as a lover
Speaker 2: of all of these things, the music and the sort
Speaker 2: of cultural pieces of it, I didn't really have a
Speaker 2: problem with it. I can almost see the clan trouble
Speaker 2: that people are having that action sequence. I can see
Speaker 2: a universe where that feels less earned. What is your
Speaker 2: stance on that last shootout?
Speaker 1: For me, it was earned because that was just an
Speaker 1: interesting an interesting element that we that he learns from
Speaker 1: the vampires, you know, And I thought that was actually
Speaker 1: an interesting twist. The fact that the as it happens,
Speaker 1: the first two people local people that Remick turns happened
Speaker 1: to be the in the clan, and like I can't remember,
Speaker 1: he's like the nephew of the of the guy who
Speaker 1: sold him the place, and so they know that it's
Speaker 1: like this whole ambush thing and they're fully intending on
Speaker 1: doing this, and so the fact that that just essentially
Speaker 1: becomes a setup for wrapping up that part of the
Speaker 1: story and kind of like getting that final revenge, I
Speaker 1: just felt like it was you know, it's like some
Speaker 1: people would say it's like attacked on ending, but for me,
Speaker 1: it was earned because we set it up. We already
Speaker 1: have that you doubt about, like is this guy for real?
Speaker 1: Who's selling him this place? And then it just completes
Speaker 1: the story. It's a full payoff of that.
Speaker 3: And also it also shows us. I mean, the idea
Speaker 3: that they find out that from the vampires that they're coming,
Speaker 3: and that's why he's able to be so prepared to
Speaker 3: finally get the trunk out, is that the fix was
Speaker 3: always in. If the vampires didn't show up, they probably
Speaker 3: wouldn't be prepared and they would still be attacked. It
Speaker 3: was never going to work in this fair terrible society.
Speaker 3: There are chips you can't even see are against you
Speaker 3: and so and so there is something cathartic then also
Speaker 3: of okay, I went through something hellish. Now I learned
Speaker 3: something from that. And now another wave of bad guys
Speaker 3: shows up. And these guys don't get back up. They
Speaker 3: are very easy to defeat compared to the people that
Speaker 3: we had. There's no lore, there's no anything that we
Speaker 3: have to do, just a really big gun and then
Speaker 3: they fall down. Well, yeah, there's something pretty cathartic about
Speaker 3: that for me I and the end, the audience clapped
Speaker 3: in my theater.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yeah, definitely, And we get a really touching
Speaker 1: final moment between the brother camera was that smoke or
Speaker 1: stack whichever one that is? Uh and his you know,
Speaker 1: ex wife Annie and their infant son. Like, what a
Speaker 1: touching way to wrap that up like it was just
Speaker 1: like absolutely heartwarming to see that that familial finale that
Speaker 1: he ended up having there.
Speaker 2: Hailey Steinfeld's last person we haven't really talked about. I
Speaker 2: thought she did a fantastic job.
Speaker 3: I think I'll like her more in this than I've
Speaker 3: liked her in other things. Not to take to take
Speaker 3: away from the other things. I just she really burst
Speaker 3: through the screen in a cool way. I also appreciated
Speaker 3: just this movie also in certain movies, especially male driven
Speaker 3: movies with Michael B. Jordan and Ryan Coogler. This film
Speaker 3: was also very interested and attentive to female pleasure, which
Speaker 3: is always always so appreciated. I'd love that so much
Speaker 3: that that lost heeded references to female pleasure, what you
Speaker 3: do to give female pleasure, the importance of female pleasure
Speaker 3: and females being allowed to have pleasure and not being
Speaker 3: as bad or castigated against anything like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's I mean there's a straight up cars speaking
Speaker 2: of great things you learn in cars kind of lingis
Speaker 2: there's practically a tutorial.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a it's a really sexy movie, and
Speaker 3: it's funny and it's scary. I mean it's and it
Speaker 3: handles all of it. There's just not this car crash
Speaker 3: of the different tones. It all just works.
Speaker 1: So neat a couple things with Hailey Steinfeld, just a
Speaker 1: couple scenes that stick out, which just because the way
Speaker 1: that they were done. One you brought up the ending, Pete.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about that other ending, but I thought
Speaker 1: it was so interesting that they essentially are here to say,
Speaker 1: we've been around, we love your music. I was, you know,
Speaker 1: I made a deal with my brother to not do
Speaker 1: anything to you, but we will. Your time's almost up.
Speaker 1: If you want us to, we can totally take care
Speaker 1: of you, you know.
Speaker 3: I was like, that's an.
Speaker 1: Interesting way to kind of like have that closure between
Speaker 1: those characters like and and him to say I'm good.
Speaker 3: You know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was just it was really weirdly touching, you know,
Speaker 1: to have that but to characters in him. I really
Speaker 1: enjoyed that also. I just I really it was such
Speaker 1: a great and simple and effective way to convey the vampire.
Speaker 1: You got Mary who goes outside just to talk to
Speaker 1: the white people because she's white and she can talk
Speaker 1: to them, and you know, see if they're being serious about,
Speaker 1: you know, the money that they have. You've got that
Speaker 1: interesting little connection between those characters. And she finally leaves,
Speaker 1: and it's just a simple shot as she's walking back
Speaker 1: toward camera and you see you see Remick and you
Speaker 1: just see him like disappear, like he just jumps up,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of the last we see before she
Speaker 1: comes back in and we know that she's been attacked.
Speaker 1: Like just simple ways to kind of convey these things
Speaker 1: that I think Googler found that just worked really well.
Speaker 2: That was another interesting thing, speaking specifically of the effects
Speaker 2: and the kills. I mean, the effects I think looked
Speaker 2: very good. The makeup effects looked great. The fact that
Speaker 2: the vampire was so judicious when killing her as to
Speaker 2: do it under her shoulder strap on her backs so
Speaker 2: that she couldn't be seen when a lot of the
Speaker 2: kills were quite bloody and quite gruesome.
Speaker 3: And same with the Asian shopkeeper the husband. Yes you
Speaker 3: can't see that either. Yeah, that's a good point. I
Speaker 3: didn't think about that, that they're using to try to
Speaker 3: get in same with cornbread right now, right well, that
Speaker 3: they want to try to use as stooges to get
Speaker 3: inside they or they're really careful about where they're baiting them.
Speaker 3: I never thought of that, That's exactly.
Speaker 2: Which is so interesting, especially when you look at Hiley Seinfeld,
Speaker 2: who does have you know, in her family lineage, apparently
Speaker 2: does have black ancestry, and so she brings yeah, she
Speaker 2: brings up this this whole Did you guys see the
Speaker 2: movie Passing? Fantastic fantastic movie about these women who were
Speaker 2: light skinned black people who were passing as white people.
Speaker 2: And what is the sort of moral, uh, you know,
Speaker 2: or cultural justification behind doing that? Are you not proud
Speaker 2: of your own ancestry? Do you just you know, are
Speaker 2: you trying to avoid you know, avoid something, you know,
Speaker 2: avoid you know, the overt racism in a in a
Speaker 2: dark time. Well, that sort of biting people in a
Speaker 2: way that they can't that it can't be seen, is
Speaker 2: essentially vampires passing, right, They want to pass so that
Speaker 2: they can right get away with this case, get away
Speaker 2: with some horrible stuff. But I find it so I
Speaker 2: find it really interesting the way they used the tool
Speaker 2: of the transformation in this movie. It didn't it worked
Speaker 2: a couple of times, right, I mean I think it worked.
Speaker 2: Did it worked twice? Steinfeld got in she was the
Speaker 2: only one. She might be the only one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because then they start questioning everyone after that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you're right pretty much. Yeah, you're right. I mean you
Speaker 1: could say it doesn't necessarily work. But the initial racist
Speaker 1: couple that Remich brings along, now granted they've all cleaned up,
Speaker 1: like all the blood is off of all of Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't work. But I mean I think that's
Speaker 1: that just goes to your point that Ramik was being
Speaker 1: very careful about how and where he would bite people
Speaker 1: so that he could use them to his advantage. Yeah,
Speaker 1: which is very different for vampires. Usually it's just a
Speaker 1: big you know, right in the neck and then you
Speaker 1: just you always have the two marks there, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was like playing by the old rules, but
Speaker 2: in a strategic way that I thought the movie captured
Speaker 2: quite well. I think it's it's you know, I'm just
Speaker 2: the trailer is playing on a loop here, and it's
Speaker 2: so funny. The hero shots in the trailer. A lot
Speaker 2: of some of the hero shots, especially the biggest hero
Speaker 2: shots in the trailer are Michael B. Jordan with a
Speaker 2: big gun, and that doesn't happen at all in the
Speaker 2: main part of the movie. It happens in the final
Speaker 2: you know, clan shootout, and it's it's the hero shot
Speaker 2: of the film.
Speaker 3: I thought the score was appropriately Apart from the score
Speaker 3: versus music, the music is outstanding. Of course, the score
Speaker 3: is at times operatic, at times is almost campily monster movie,
Speaker 3: but it plays all the way to the top without
Speaker 3: ever becoming campy or taking me out of it. It's
Speaker 3: taking things so seriously in a fun way that it's
Speaker 3: a nice offshoot from the blues and the other music
Speaker 3: that we have in the film. I was a really
Speaker 3: big fan of the score.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, and I love what Gorenson does, especially like
Speaker 1: the music that he's been crafting for Coogler's films, like
Speaker 1: you see that with like the Black Panther score, where
Speaker 1: he's tapping into some really unique African instruments and bringing
Speaker 1: that into the score to kind of create the music.
Speaker 1: And here like he did a lot of research on
Speaker 1: like those old thirties and forties blues sorts of recordings
Speaker 1: and really kind of built his score around all of that,
Speaker 1: and it's I mean, you're to your point. Is it
Speaker 1: goes big when it needs to. It is personal, like
Speaker 1: fantastic individual themes for different characters and relationships and everything.
Speaker 1: Like it was a score that was exceptional. Like I mean,
Speaker 1: this film is it's such a surprise of a film.
Speaker 1: As I was watching it, I'm like, I mean it's
Speaker 1: like another Everything everywhere is like, is this movie gonna
Speaker 1: be up for Best Picture? Will people be talking about
Speaker 1: it come Oscar season next year? I don't know. I'd
Speaker 1: like to think so.
Speaker 2: God, I hope so. I felt like there were so
Speaker 2: many performances in here that need to be really appreciated
Speaker 2: on the awards circuit. I just I really do. This
Speaker 2: was such a wonderful There's not one performer in here,
Speaker 2: not one thing that took me out of the movie, right.
Speaker 2: I was just in the pocket of this thing the
Speaker 2: entire time. Yeah, great stuff, great stuff. I'm sorry we
Speaker 2: couldn't fight more. I think that makes me Podcasting Rod
Speaker 2: Letterbox letterbox dot Com slash the next Reel. That's where
Speaker 2: you can find all of the films that we've talked
Speaker 2: about on our various shows. This is where we put
Speaker 2: our stars in our hearts, and i'm you guys have
Speaker 2: to go first. Tom, You've already put yours in here.
Speaker 2: I can't what is going on with your rating for
Speaker 2: this thing? It's a heart, You're good.
Speaker 1: I just have to say, like you called people out
Speaker 1: on saying, yeah, if you have problems with the ending,
Speaker 1: Like there's people who are giving it a four or
Speaker 1: four and a half, they obviously have problems with the ending.
Speaker 3: I just put neither of you.
Speaker 2: You too, you too, You're you're pre calling yourself out
Speaker 2: because you guys are both four and a half stars,
Speaker 2: and I want to know why.
Speaker 4: As opposed to what five four and a half is
Speaker 4: an extraordinary four. I've given one film five this entire time,
Speaker 4: and it was because it did the best job it
Speaker 4: possibly could with what it was delivering, and that was
Speaker 4: Hamilton the Musical.
Speaker 2: This movie musical.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Hamilton the Musical is the only movie I've ever
Speaker 3: given five stars to on this podcast. This movie I
Speaker 3: need to see it again. I want to see you again.
Speaker 3: But I mean, four point five is near perfect. I
Speaker 3: thought this was an outstanding movie. Uh, and I really
Speaker 3: look forward to seeing it again.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'll give that to you, Andy. Why are you
Speaker 2: four and a half stars?
Speaker 1: I just I am four and a half stars. I
Speaker 1: think that's a really good score, and that's where I score.
Speaker 3: Weird who yells the teacher over an as I do?
Speaker 2: I'm that guy. Okay, I'm a five star. I think
Speaker 2: this is a five star movie. Maybe it will and
Speaker 2: and part of it I recognize is my the the
Speaker 2: uh let's just say five. Uh, my five star artificiality
Speaker 2: because I can't do four and a half stars. I
Speaker 2: don't believe in them, and so I need to call
Speaker 2: them out. It's antithetical to my ideology.
Speaker 1: But you're saying you wouldn't give it a four and
Speaker 1: a half if that was an option for you anyway.
Speaker 3: No, that's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's why I want saying four and a half
Speaker 1: because I five, because I can't do four and a half.
Speaker 2: This is a meager, meager podcast fight. Let's just say
Speaker 2: that we're.
Speaker 1: Not doing this is not we wanted to know.
Speaker 3: I did. I wanted to pick a fight.
Speaker 2: I wanted a little bit of fireworks, and I'm kind
Speaker 2: of done.
Speaker 3: I moved on.
Speaker 2: This will round up gloriously to a five on our letterbox.
Speaker 1: Follow us. What can I say one thing you want
Speaker 1: to I'm just saying, like you wanted reasons, I'm here
Speaker 1: to give you a reason. Four and a half? Did
Speaker 1: we need to start the film with the book ending
Speaker 1: it with a moment the next morning?
Speaker 3: Like? Did that?
Speaker 1: Did we have to start that? Couldn't we have just
Speaker 1: started the film without that?
Speaker 3: I personally was glad it was there. I'm a huge
Speaker 3: fan of cold opens, of buying time, and because it
Speaker 3: gave import to everything that was going forward. And then
Speaker 3: one of my favorite I mean, you know what a
Speaker 3: geek I am about contain pieces, small pieces, things that
Speaker 3: sometimes could be a play for it to say one
Speaker 3: day earlier, I was just true, all everything we're going
Speaker 3: to see is just this one man with day and night.
Speaker 3: Filled me with so much excitement, and then the movie
Speaker 3: delivers completely, So I completely I get that it didn't
Speaker 3: need it, but for me, it made everything lean forward,
Speaker 3: It gave everything informant.
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, fine, that's not a reason to give
Speaker 1: it for an hour, but I'm still giving it.
Speaker 3: For our.
Speaker 2: Excellent excellent. I feel like that's fine as long as
Speaker 2: you're you're still thinking about it.
Speaker 3: When a five star movie from when I see it again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is one of those movies where I'm just
Speaker 2: to your point about the score. Immediately went over to
Speaker 2: Apple Music and added both the score and the soundtrack
Speaker 2: both available, and they're both so good. They're so so good.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And yeah, I mean, this is this.
Speaker 2: I can't buy it yet, but you bet I will
Speaker 2: buy this movie. This will be a collective one for
Speaker 2: the collection, and I can't wait for whatever the special
Speaker 2: features are. Good, Lord, give me some good special features.
Speaker 2: I want to be a part of that. Did you
Speaker 2: see I know, Andy saw it, Tom. Did you see
Speaker 2: the video of Coogler going through four with a white board?
Speaker 3: A friend of the show, Johnny Jacaloney and Darnelle Smith
Speaker 3: sent both sent to me, and I thought that was
Speaker 3: a really smart Johnny pointed out, this is a really
Speaker 3: smart way to get people to go see it in
Speaker 3: the theater. Yeah, like to get nerdy about it and
Speaker 3: really break it down. I thought that was really cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, I thought that was great. I'll put
Speaker 2: the link in the notes because it's it's worth watching.
Speaker 2: And he's just really smart, you know that he's thinking
Speaker 2: about about this stuff, like thinking at this level. I
Speaker 2: thought it was neat to have him in his perspective
Speaker 2: with his whiteboard.
Speaker 3: It's really good.
Speaker 2: That's great, really fun coming up next month, Tom, would
Speaker 2: you introduce because I know this is your movie, this
Speaker 2: was your pick.
Speaker 3: Well, the last time I got to pick, I chose
Speaker 3: y two K. I'm not allowed to pick movies anymore.
Speaker 3: So this time we're seeing the hopefully redemptive and good
Speaker 3: and course setting thunderbolts asterisks. I don't know why there
Speaker 3: was an asterisk. I know nothing, so I know so
Speaker 3: little about this movie, but I have seen a trailer.
Speaker 3: There is one interesting thing I do want to point
Speaker 3: out is this is one of the only Marvel trailers
Speaker 3: that I've seen where I don't know who the bad
Speaker 3: guy is. They show a.
Speaker 1: Floating a new trailer where they introduced him.
Speaker 3: Right, Oh, I didn't.
Speaker 2: I saw the floating person, and there's it's always the
Speaker 2: behind the head.
Speaker 3: The trailer before Sinners, and I saw Sinners this afternoon,
Speaker 3: right before I came here. It was that same old
Speaker 3: trailer and it's just a voice and someone making people
Speaker 3: into shadows. But I don't know who it is, which
Speaker 3: makes me a little afraid that it's another like Tim
Speaker 3: Blake Nilson from Captain America years ago. They're hiding the
Speaker 3: bad guy because he didn't turn out that break. But
Speaker 3: we'll see, Yeah, we are seeing Thunderbolts Asterix correct.
Speaker 2: Yes, we are seeing Thunderbolts. Asks it comes out the
Speaker 2: first weekend. It's our scheduling for the summer is going
Speaker 2: to get a little bit squishy, so we're going to
Speaker 2: find a time. It probably won't be opening weekend when
Speaker 2: this episode comes out, but we are going to talk
Speaker 2: about Thunderbolts from a interesting thing about some of the marketing.
Speaker 2: They're starting to do some Mission Impossible style viral stuff
Speaker 2: where you you know, I just the one I just
Speaker 2: watched was what's her name, The New Black Widow Florence Pugh,
Speaker 2: Florence Pugh talking about how much she loves heights. She's
Speaker 2: so excited about heights, And there's a sequence in the
Speaker 2: trailer where she takes us an elegant step off a
Speaker 2: very tall building and falls, and they showed they show
Speaker 2: her doing that stunt, getting rigged up to do that
Speaker 2: stunt herself and be hung out over this building, and
Speaker 2: it reminded me very much of the last of the
Speaker 2: Mission Impossible stuff that's that's been coming out in the
Speaker 2: where they actually show you the whole stunt. Uh, so
Speaker 2: you can see what Tom Cruise did that they put
Speaker 2: the actor in this place, and I think that's a
Speaker 2: really interesting, interesting bit.
Speaker 1: I'm excited for it, and.
Speaker 3: So especially now that there's a stunt oscar. Yeah right,
Speaker 3: so maybe we'll be seeing even more and more of
Speaker 3: that for sure. So so that's it.
Speaker 2: That's the big one, because you know, we worship at
Speaker 2: the altar of clicks. Thank you everybody for hanging out
Speaker 2: with us. We appreciate your time and attention, uh listening
Speaker 2: to the show.
Speaker 1: Go see this movie.
Speaker 2: It's totally worth seeing. It's not like the other movies
Speaker 2: we talked about on the film board.
Speaker 3: This one's really.
Speaker 2: Good and uh it's not like my duo que uh
Speaker 2: and Andy. Thank you for coming back and doing a
Speaker 2: show that doesn't start with them.
Speaker 1: You bet. I'm glad to be here. Lots of fun.
Speaker 2: Always always a treat to have you on the show.
Speaker 2: And Tommy, you know, we did good time.
Speaker 3: We did good this time. Kid. Shout out to Suzanne
Speaker 3: Zizzi who is my film board friend and she's a
Speaker 3: listener of the show. So we will see you at Thunderballs.
Speaker 2: Meeting a journey