WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:07.599 Enjoy these back to back classic Forbidden Knowledge News episodes. Today, 2 00:00:07.599 --> 00:00:10.080 I want to welcome back to the show, John Michael Kreer. 3 00:00:10.480 --> 00:00:13.560 He is a widely respected author and blogger in fields 4 00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:17.839 ranging from nature, spirituality to the future of industrial society. 5 00:00:18.280 --> 00:00:21.039 He is the author of more than seventy books, including 6 00:00:21.120 --> 00:00:26.519 sixteen novels, and blogs weekly at ecosofia dot net. John, 7 00:00:26.800 --> 00:00:28.359 welcome back. How are you doing today? 8 00:00:29.239 --> 00:00:31.120 Doing very well? Thank you. It's a pleasure to be on. 9 00:00:31.679 --> 00:00:34.439 Yes, it's great to have you on. Last time you're on, 10 00:00:34.799 --> 00:00:37.200 we discussed a bit about your book, The King and 11 00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:40.320 Orange and went off on a few rabbit holes from there. 12 00:00:40.359 --> 00:00:44.640 But today I want to go deeper into nature and 13 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:50.600 history of magical practices, secret societies, and magic being practiced 14 00:00:50.679 --> 00:00:54.079 at the highest levels and how it how much of 15 00:00:54.119 --> 00:00:58.200 an effect does it really have creating our culture and 16 00:00:58.280 --> 00:01:02.840 even manifesting aspect of a greater reality that those that 17 00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:07.560 practice at these higher levels probably want to manifest. So 18 00:01:07.879 --> 00:01:09.400 we've got a lot to talk about. I think we 19 00:01:09.480 --> 00:01:13.159 have a good time. Let's start today with what would 20 00:01:13.200 --> 00:01:17.280 you say are some of the earliest recorded forms of 21 00:01:17.319 --> 00:01:20.159 magic and maybe some examples of those practices. 22 00:01:20.760 --> 00:01:23.599 Okay, One of the problems that we face, of course, 23 00:01:23.680 --> 00:01:26.359 is that, well, there's reason to believe that magic has 24 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:28.680 been practiced as long as human beings have been around. 25 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:32.079 We don't have written records from before about five thousand 26 00:01:32.159 --> 00:01:36.640 BC at that point where we start seeing written records 27 00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:41.799 in Egypt, in Mesopotamia. As soon as that happens, records 28 00:01:41.799 --> 00:01:44.760 of magical practice show up. What's their stuff going on before? Then? 29 00:01:45.120 --> 00:01:48.840 Of course? What are there various traces that seem to 30 00:01:48.879 --> 00:01:52.719 be remnants of ritual activity of various kinds and so on. Yes, 31 00:01:52.920 --> 00:01:54.040 do we know what they were doing? 32 00:01:54.200 --> 00:01:54.280 No? 33 00:01:55.319 --> 00:01:57.400 You know, if all you have is the remnants of 34 00:01:57.400 --> 00:01:59.879 a ritual and you don't know anything about the culture 35 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:03.159 that created other than what kind of stone tools they used, 36 00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:05.760 you're kind of out of luck. As soon as we 37 00:02:05.879 --> 00:02:11.039 hit the ground running with written records in Egypt and Sumeria, though, 38 00:02:11.400 --> 00:02:14.319 magic is in full space, so there's obviously a long history. 39 00:02:14.319 --> 00:02:18.800 Before then, you have Egyptian majors who are doing things 40 00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:22.280 like well, for example, the Pharaohs, the kings of Egypt, 41 00:02:22.960 --> 00:02:25.840 they would wear their sandals, the sandals that they were 42 00:02:25.919 --> 00:02:29.240 every day had the names and images of their enemies 43 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:33.039 on the bottoms. So they were literally magically trampling down 44 00:02:33.080 --> 00:02:34.800 their enemies with every step they took. 45 00:02:36.199 --> 00:02:36.719 Interesting. 46 00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:40.560 Oh yeah. In fact, the way things were set up 47 00:02:40.599 --> 00:02:44.319 in Egypt, the Egypt, Egypt was full of magic. People 48 00:02:44.319 --> 00:02:46.560 practice it all the time, and in fact, most of 49 00:02:46.599 --> 00:02:49.960 the Egyptian priesthoods practiced magic on their off hours. They 50 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:52.360 had an arrangement whereby you would do, if you were 51 00:02:52.360 --> 00:02:55.840 a priest, you do one week doing the intensive temple service, 52 00:02:55.879 --> 00:02:58.000 the rituals and all that kind of stuff, and they 53 00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.719 have the other three weeks of the month off, and 54 00:03:00.759 --> 00:03:03.039 what you did during those three weeks was do magical 55 00:03:03.080 --> 00:03:07.039 work for ordinary clients, just the ordinary Egyptian citizens who 56 00:03:07.039 --> 00:03:10.159 needed a healing spell for this, or a good luck 57 00:03:10.240 --> 00:03:13.719 spell for that, or what have you. There was a 58 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:18.039 lot of it, and while we only have modest amounts 59 00:03:18.039 --> 00:03:20.000 of it from the very early times, it's very clear 60 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:22.639 that all of the basic kinds of magic that we 61 00:03:22.759 --> 00:03:25.319 now know about were being practiced at that point. You 62 00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.680 had people invoking spirits, you had people calling down powers 63 00:03:28.680 --> 00:03:33.080 from deities, You had people choosing herbs and stones and 64 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.680 things like that that naturally had certain kinds of magical powers. 65 00:03:36.680 --> 00:03:39.319 And then you had people watching the timing of the 66 00:03:39.319 --> 00:03:42.240 heavens and saying, Okay, when this star rises, that's the 67 00:03:42.319 --> 00:03:44.199 right time for this. So all this stuff was a 68 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:48.800 going concern. Meanwhile, over in Mesopotamia, over in what's now Iraq, 69 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:52.800 where the Sumerian civilization was thriving about the same time, 70 00:03:53.719 --> 00:03:56.360 we have an enormous amount of material in their magic 71 00:03:56.439 --> 00:04:01.199 because they wrote on clay tablets, which they to in ovens, 72 00:04:01.280 --> 00:04:04.719 So you have these basically bricks stick one of those 73 00:04:04.719 --> 00:04:07.800 in the desert five thousand years later. It's perfectly readable. 74 00:04:08.120 --> 00:04:10.199 And they had whole libraries of stuff, and a lot 75 00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.319 of what they stored was some information on magic. You know, 76 00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:15.719 here are these evil spirits, and here are fifty two 77 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:18.759 different spells you can use to drive them off. And 78 00:04:19.040 --> 00:04:21.120 here is a spell for healing, and here's a spell 79 00:04:21.160 --> 00:04:23.519 for making people sick, and here's a spell. And of 80 00:04:23.560 --> 00:04:27.399 course astrology that was the great thing in Mesopotamia. They 81 00:04:28.199 --> 00:04:30.920 for as far back as we know, in fact, probably 82 00:04:30.959 --> 00:04:33.600 back before the beginning of recorded history. They had the 83 00:04:33.639 --> 00:04:36.560 common sense idea of watching the heavens and comparing what 84 00:04:36.639 --> 00:04:38.680 was going on in the heavens what was going on earth. 85 00:04:39.040 --> 00:04:42.000 That's where modern astrology comes from. Thousands of years of 86 00:04:42.079 --> 00:04:45.639 priests noting down on their on those clay tablets. Okay, 87 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:50.079 Mars rose in areas. Of course, they used their words 88 00:04:50.079 --> 00:04:51.920 from Mars and areas, but it was the same system, 89 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:56.279 and a war broke out. Okay, Mars is strong in 90 00:04:56.319 --> 00:04:59.759 areas intensity. Okay, let's see what happened five hundred years ago, 91 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:02.360 and then happened and that's and so you had a 92 00:05:02.399 --> 00:05:04.680 lot of people doing stuff like that. So it was 93 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.240 a going concern as soon as as far back as 94 00:05:07.240 --> 00:05:07.480 we know. 95 00:05:08.240 --> 00:05:11.240 I'm really glad you brought up astrology because the more 96 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:14.079 I look into this and the more guests I have, 97 00:05:14.399 --> 00:05:17.879 astrology seems to be a huge driving factor in so 98 00:05:18.000 --> 00:05:20.959 many things. I mean, even the Bible. It can be 99 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:28.480 decoded into astrological an astrological book basically. So I'd like 100 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:31.759 to get your take on how do you think these 101 00:05:31.839 --> 00:05:37.639 ancients were able to basically decode disguise and basically apply 102 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:40.959 it to their lives in this magical way and understand 103 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.199 how the planetary energies affect everything. 104 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:46.000 You know, we actually know exactly how they did it, 105 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:48.839 because again it was these guys in Mesopotamia and they 106 00:05:48.839 --> 00:05:53.240 took notes. Seriously, we have in some of the big 107 00:05:53.319 --> 00:05:57.519 Babylonian and Assyrian libraries, we have tens of thousands of 108 00:05:57.600 --> 00:06:01.120 tablets that are all like, let's see what happened, you know, 109 00:06:01.399 --> 00:06:04.199 such and such happened in the sky, what happened on earth. 110 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:08.560 It's literally an empirical science. They didn't start with theories. 111 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:11.360 They started by saying, Okay, what happened when this happened, 112 00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:15.279 what happened when that happened. The king of our city 113 00:06:15.319 --> 00:06:18.720 state has just had a son who is the crown prince. 114 00:06:19.160 --> 00:06:21.360 Here's what the sky looked like when he was born. 115 00:06:21.680 --> 00:06:23.920 Let's see what kind of person he grows up into. 116 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:27.639 And you start that about say thirty two hundred BC 117 00:06:28.040 --> 00:06:31.680 or before, and you keep on doing that year after year, 118 00:06:32.160 --> 00:06:37.240 century after century, millennium after millennium, you've got an immense database, 119 00:06:37.319 --> 00:06:39.199 and with it a few centuries, you know, you're starting 120 00:06:39.199 --> 00:06:41.680 to say, Okay, this little red, this little red moving 121 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:46.000 moving star, which we now call Mars, that's associated with war, 122 00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:50.920 that's associated with violence, with forceful energies, with masculinergies. Here's 123 00:06:50.959 --> 00:06:54.279 this other bright one and which we call Venus now 124 00:06:54.519 --> 00:06:58.480 that seems to be associated more with emotions, with love, 125 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:02.639 with the feminine energies. Wow, okay, what happens when they 126 00:07:02.720 --> 00:07:05.079 what happens when they're in different positions with one another. 127 00:07:05.360 --> 00:07:08.680 Let's see when they're when they're conjoined, when they're square, 128 00:07:09.000 --> 00:07:12.199 when they're trying, and so on. They did it by 129 00:07:12.839 --> 00:07:18.959 patients persistence, bloody minded, stubbornness, and willingness to keep detailed 130 00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:24.399 records the same way that scientists who are honest do things. Now, 131 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:27.720 it's just that what they found was something that our 132 00:07:27.759 --> 00:07:30.879 modern scientific dogma doesn't allow to exist, and so scientists go, 133 00:07:31.879 --> 00:07:35.360 can't be true. But but in fact it was. It's 134 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:39.560 an empirical science and they and they didn't as far 135 00:07:39.639 --> 00:07:42.959 as certainly from the records we have. You know, they 136 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:47.920 didn't do it using oracles or you know, visions or 137 00:07:47.920 --> 00:07:52.639 anything like that. They did it the patient, steady, realistic 138 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.079 way of watching the heavens and comparing it to what 139 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:57.279 was happening on the ground. Yeah. 140 00:07:57.319 --> 00:07:59.759 And in modern times, you know, astrology has looked at 141 00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:03.160 as a woo woo and all the you know, even 142 00:08:03.199 --> 00:08:07.160 magical practices. But if you look back in ancient times, 143 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:09.360 it seems that it was just a common thing that 144 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:14.279 everyone was practicing magic on some level. And that at 145 00:08:14.360 --> 00:08:18.360 some point we snuffed out everything that worked well for us. Astrology, 146 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:21.439 practice of magic, all these things that helped humanity thrive, 147 00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:21.800 you know. 148 00:08:22.519 --> 00:08:24.959 And the thing is this is really recent, This is 149 00:08:25.279 --> 00:08:28.560 very very recent. As recently as say fifteen hundred and 150 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.879 sixteen hundred, astrology was all over the place. Magic was obviously, 151 00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:35.879 certain kinds of magic had to be underground because of 152 00:08:36.159 --> 00:08:40.200 the Christian Church had its little attitude problem with magic. Yeah, 153 00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:42.360 but you had all this this stuff was all over 154 00:08:42.399 --> 00:08:44.679 the place. But at the time of the scientific Revolution, 155 00:08:45.360 --> 00:08:48.480 people don't realize what a radical change that made. You 156 00:08:48.559 --> 00:08:52.279 had these these intellectuals who had this vision of the 157 00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:56.360 world made completely subject to the human will, the world 158 00:08:56.360 --> 00:08:58.080 as a lump of dead matter that we could do 159 00:08:58.720 --> 00:09:02.279 whatever we wanted to. And they pushed that bin. Because 160 00:09:02.320 --> 00:09:04.799 they had they were able to pull out a few 161 00:09:04.919 --> 00:09:08.600 technological rabbits from their heaths. People bought into it, people 162 00:09:08.600 --> 00:09:11.679 bought into it in a big way. Now we're starting 163 00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:13.600 to discover that there was a downside to that. And 164 00:09:13.679 --> 00:09:16.120 now it's becoming very clear that a lot of those 165 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.320 technological rabbits they pulled from halts had major downsides. And 166 00:09:20.320 --> 00:09:23.360 we're running into those now, and you know, as far 167 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:25.759 as the astrologers and the majors, well, you know, we're 168 00:09:25.799 --> 00:09:31.000 still here and we'll see what happens. But there is 169 00:09:31.039 --> 00:09:34.360 certainly there. For the last what fifty sixty years now, 170 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:38.600 there's been very steadily growing interest in magic and astrology 171 00:09:38.639 --> 00:09:41.279 and all these things. And I think sanity will return. 172 00:09:41.960 --> 00:09:44.600 Yeah you, I'm glad you said that too, because I've 173 00:09:44.639 --> 00:09:48.559 noticed it's kind of like a rise of Christianity and 174 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.360 Abrahamic religions and now they're kind of falling again, and 175 00:09:52.399 --> 00:09:55.240 it seems to be a recent thing. What are your 176 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:58.320 thoughts on what's behind this? What's the driving factor behind 177 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:01.559 this kind of rise and fall all of these Abrahamic 178 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.320 religions and then a return or more magical age. 179 00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:08.000 Yeah. The thing is history goes through these cycles. History 180 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:10.320 is circular. It is not a straight line. The great 181 00:10:10.639 --> 00:10:13.639 lie of our time is what I call the myth 182 00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:16.559 of progress, the idea that if we just keep on 183 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:20.360 building bigger and bigger and louder and noisier machines, we 184 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:23.159 will take us to the stars. Well that's not happening, 185 00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:27.039 you know, the deal, it's not happening. I think many 186 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:31.399 many people now are realizing that it's not gonna happen, 187 00:10:31.679 --> 00:10:34.440 not in our lifetimes, not in the lifetime of our species. 188 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:37.519 We've burned through most of the Earth's supply of fossil fuels. 189 00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:41.519 We don't have me dilithium crystals, find me one, please, 190 00:10:42.159 --> 00:10:46.120 and so on and so basically, history is a circle. 191 00:10:46.360 --> 00:10:48.919 It's a cycle. Actually, it's a whole series of circles. 192 00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:51.600 There are little circles and bigger circles, and huge circles 193 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:56.960 and gargantuan circles. One of the biggest, if we're to 194 00:10:57.039 --> 00:11:00.519 go by the traditional lore of occultism, one of the biggest 195 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:05.879 is a process whereby civilizations get into this particular track 196 00:11:06.840 --> 00:11:10.360 of right of getting into technology, getting into power, getting 197 00:11:10.399 --> 00:11:13.759 into trying to run the world, and then that blows 198 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:16.600 up on them and down when they go again. Meanwhile, 199 00:11:16.639 --> 00:11:18.720 religions are doing the same cycle, religions having about a 200 00:11:18.720 --> 00:11:21.639 two thousand year cycle from the time that they are 201 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:24.799 you know, the white hot creations of visionary profits to 202 00:11:24.840 --> 00:11:28.120 the point that they're doddering snow. Bureaucracy is going through 203 00:11:28.159 --> 00:11:30.960 the motions. And that's true of Abrahamic religions as much 204 00:11:31.159 --> 00:11:33.919 as much as is of anyone of any other. So 205 00:11:34.559 --> 00:11:37.240 we've got right now, we've got several of these cycles 206 00:11:37.440 --> 00:11:40.639 that are that are basically turning down. At the same time, 207 00:11:40.679 --> 00:11:44.559 we've got the cycle of our of our our series 208 00:11:44.600 --> 00:11:47.240 of civilizations, the one that's brought us to the same 209 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.159 point that the same point that the civilization we dimly 210 00:11:51.200 --> 00:11:54.279 remember the legends of Atlantis reached about what we all 211 00:11:54.320 --> 00:11:57.320 about eleven thousand years ago, and then it went We 212 00:11:57.360 --> 00:11:59.960 know that how that it went down with rising seas. 213 00:12:00.080 --> 00:12:03.919 Does that sound familiar? But and so we also have 214 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:09.000 this religious cycle and sixty year religious cycle key to 215 00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.080 the zodiacal ages, and that's coming down right now as 216 00:12:13.639 --> 00:12:18.240 the religions of the Pissian Age sunset out having reached 217 00:12:18.240 --> 00:12:21.000 the point of being becoming seen. All bureaucracy is going 218 00:12:21.039 --> 00:12:24.279 through the motions, and we have nations arising and falling, 219 00:12:24.360 --> 00:12:27.159 we have cultural movements. All of these things are following 220 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.240 circular patterns. 221 00:12:30.360 --> 00:12:33.960 Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Now I want 222 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:36.919 to talk a little bit about secret societies. Do you 223 00:12:36.960 --> 00:12:41.840 think that when these reformed, the individuals kind of knew 224 00:12:41.840 --> 00:12:43.679 that they were going to have to go into a 225 00:12:43.720 --> 00:12:48.080 state of hiding because of the climate of the world 226 00:12:48.159 --> 00:12:51.320 around them. With these rise of Abrahamic religions and Christianity. 227 00:12:51.720 --> 00:12:54.360 Basically they were getting killed and they wanted to preserve 228 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.080 this in some way. Is that the way it's happened. 229 00:12:57.960 --> 00:13:00.919 The thing to keep in mind is that secretscieties that 230 00:13:01.000 --> 00:13:04.000 there have always been, and there always will be secret 231 00:13:04.000 --> 00:13:08.879 societies anytime that people don't have the option of doing 232 00:13:08.919 --> 00:13:13.080 certain things in public. Political secret societies, magical secret societies, 233 00:13:13.120 --> 00:13:16.720 sexual secret sides. Talk to talk to an elderly gay 234 00:13:16.759 --> 00:13:20.679 man or lesbian sometime about how things were back in 235 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.919 the day before you could be openly gay or lesbian. 236 00:13:23.360 --> 00:13:26.159 They I mean, they had passwords. You you know, you 237 00:13:26.279 --> 00:13:28.960 go into a lesbian bar and you say, yeah, I'm 238 00:13:29.000 --> 00:13:32.519 looking for I'm looking for a friend of Dorothy, and 239 00:13:32.519 --> 00:13:38.240 they'll know you're a lesbian, right, yep, Yeah, So exactly. 240 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.320 It would just like any other secret society, because human 241 00:13:41.360 --> 00:13:43.600 beings are good at secrecy. That's one of the things 242 00:13:43.600 --> 00:13:47.039 we do in every every culture, every society, every age 243 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:49.840 of the world has these. I would like to see 244 00:13:49.840 --> 00:13:51.840 more secret societies. In fact, I think one of the 245 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:54.720 one of the things that has kind of gone wrong 246 00:13:54.799 --> 00:13:58.720 in modern times that so many people don't realize that 247 00:13:58.919 --> 00:14:01.399 they could get a lot more, They could get a 248 00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:03.639 lot more freedom, have a lot more opportunity to pursue 249 00:14:03.679 --> 00:14:06.960 their own agendas, their own goals in life by going underground, 250 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:12.279 organizing these secret organizations and staying out of sight of 251 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:16.039 the mainstream culture that is not necessarily going to have 252 00:14:16.120 --> 00:14:20.000 their best intentions in mind. I think we need more 253 00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:21.080 secret societies. 254 00:14:21.440 --> 00:14:21.600 Yeah. 255 00:14:21.679 --> 00:14:26.159 I think recently the secret societies that people traditionally think 256 00:14:26.159 --> 00:14:28.639 are you know, malevolent and evil, those have just become 257 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:32.159 the main extreame, you know, corporatetocracy that we're seeing all 258 00:14:32.200 --> 00:14:35.559 around us, and the real secrets are what you're talking about. 259 00:14:35.799 --> 00:14:40.960 Yeah, Yeah, that's the thing. Secret societies are. The secret 260 00:14:40.960 --> 00:14:44.360 societies are attactive of weakness. Look at any of the 261 00:14:44.480 --> 00:14:47.440 really successful secret societies, and I'm going to give you 262 00:14:47.519 --> 00:14:50.480 give you a couple of examples, not the ones most 263 00:14:50.480 --> 00:14:52.879 people are thinking of. The United States of America was 264 00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:56.879 founded by secret societies. Okay, the Continental Congress or as 265 00:14:56.879 --> 00:14:59.639 it was in the committees who correspondence originally, and the 266 00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.879 Sons Liberty or secret societies. They did everything in secret. 267 00:15:03.960 --> 00:15:06.039 They had their passwords and all this kind of stuff, 268 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:10.279 and they planned the American Revolution, and they carried it out, 269 00:15:10.279 --> 00:15:12.840 and they won. And as soon as they had won, 270 00:15:13.000 --> 00:15:18.679 what happened the Committees of correspondence became Congress, the Sons 271 00:15:18.679 --> 00:15:22.279 of Liberty. We call that the United States Army now so, 272 00:15:22.639 --> 00:15:25.039 and this is generally what happens. The same thing happened 273 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:29.000 in Germany. In the run up to nineteen thirty three. 274 00:15:29.039 --> 00:15:32.679 You had this organization called the tulegas Chef, the Tulis Society, 275 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.960 and they were It was a secret society, complete with 276 00:15:36.000 --> 00:15:38.080 the passwords and all the rest of this stuff. They 277 00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:40.720 organized a political action wing which they called the German 278 00:15:40.799 --> 00:15:47.320 Workers Party, which recruited a talented young orator named Alolf Hiller. 279 00:15:48.320 --> 00:15:49.919 He said, no, no, you need to change the name to 280 00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.080 National Socialist German Workers Party. Why because the National makes 281 00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:55.799 the sound right wing and the Socialist make it sound 282 00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:57.960 left wing, and we'll get people from both sides. He 283 00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.720 was right. They ran here, they supplied him, they trained him, 284 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.799 they financed him. And as soon as the Nazis were 285 00:16:05.799 --> 00:16:07.759 in a sufficient position that they didn't need to be 286 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:10.960 secret about anything anymore, the tool of the cell chefs 287 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:13.600 shut down. They didn't need to bother be secret anymore. 288 00:16:13.759 --> 00:16:17.720 They simply became many of them people involved in the 289 00:16:17.759 --> 00:16:21.679 Nazi government. Same thing happened in Russia in the run 290 00:16:21.759 --> 00:16:24.720 up to the Communist takeover in nineteen seventeen. What starts 291 00:16:24.720 --> 00:16:28.000 out of the secret society drops the secrecy as soon 292 00:16:28.000 --> 00:16:31.720 as the conceive power. And so at this point, I mean, 293 00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.200 you've got organizations like the Council on Foreign Relations, like 294 00:16:35.240 --> 00:16:39.279 the Trilateral Commission or so on, which are the which 295 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:43.120 are the basically the centers of factions within the ruling class. 296 00:16:43.200 --> 00:16:46.399 But the ruling class doesn't have to be secret about anything. 297 00:16:47.159 --> 00:16:50.960 Why should they, Why should they care? You know, it's 298 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.600 not as though they think they have to worry about 299 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:56.480 you and me. The secret society, Yeah, the secret society 300 00:16:56.519 --> 00:16:57.799 is the matter at this point. Are the ones that 301 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:00.000 are being formed by people outside the centers of power, 302 00:17:00.559 --> 00:17:03.480 And of course we won't know much about them until 303 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:06.799 they start the things start really kicking in the gear, 304 00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:07.720 but we'll see. 305 00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:11.519 Yeah, I want to talk about what's kind of behind 306 00:17:11.640 --> 00:17:16.000 the I guess you could say religion or spiritual aspects 307 00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:18.079 of some of these secret societies. Maybe we could start 308 00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.480 with Freemasonry, because there's a lot of misconception, you know, 309 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:24.960 you hear the conspiracies of Oh that the thirty third degree. 310 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:27.599 They tell you your worship and Lucifer and all these 311 00:17:27.640 --> 00:17:31.200 different things. And there's just so much bs going around. 312 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:34.000 I'd like to get new thoughts on what's really going 313 00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:37.799 on with Freemasonry and the spiritual aspects between behind some 314 00:17:37.880 --> 00:17:39.400 of those secret society. 315 00:17:40.559 --> 00:17:44.839 Freemasonry started out a very long time ago as a 316 00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:49.240 secret society keeping some keeping some very very important secrets, 317 00:17:49.519 --> 00:17:52.759 no question, but we're talking the Middle Ages here, Okay. 318 00:17:53.960 --> 00:17:56.400 There's been some very some, some very good arguments made 319 00:17:56.440 --> 00:17:59.799 that the Freemasons are descended from the old Knights Templar. 320 00:17:59.839 --> 00:18:03.200 You you'll have heard about them, those of our listeners 321 00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:05.680 who haven't. The short story is that they were an 322 00:18:05.880 --> 00:18:08.880 order of warrior monks, think the Western equivalent of the 323 00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:12.319 Shaolin monk, okay, except they did it with armor and swords. 324 00:18:14.279 --> 00:18:16.680 But they ended up falling a foul of the Catholic 325 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:19.359 Church and of the King of France and various other people. 326 00:18:19.799 --> 00:18:21.960 Many of them were burnt at the steak. The other 327 00:18:22.039 --> 00:18:25.440 went underground, and in Scotland a bunch of them managed 328 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:27.519 to serve Because you know, the Knights Temple had their 329 00:18:27.519 --> 00:18:30.000 own castles, they had their own buildings, they had their 330 00:18:30.039 --> 00:18:32.720 own builders, and a bunch of them who were in 331 00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:37.359 the building trades basically managed to survive. They went underground, 332 00:18:37.400 --> 00:18:41.880 they became mason Stonemasons, people build things out of rocks, 333 00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:46.079 and they preserved certain templar secrets for the long term. 334 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:49.000 But it was a long time and there was a 335 00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:50.519 lot of ups and downs. I have a book out 336 00:18:50.599 --> 00:18:54.319 called The Secret of the Temple which traces how certain 337 00:18:54.359 --> 00:18:58.000 secrets that they had which ended up getting lost, and 338 00:18:58.119 --> 00:19:01.119 in fact, in modern Masonic ritual I say this is 339 00:19:01.119 --> 00:19:04.039 because I am a Freemason, among other things. In your 340 00:19:04.079 --> 00:19:06.599 modern Masonic ritual, in the master Mason's degree, one of 341 00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:09.960 the major points is the Masons don't have the secrets anymore. 342 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:15.079 The true word of a Master Mason is lost. Nobody 343 00:19:15.079 --> 00:19:17.240 knows what it is anymore, and part of what you're 344 00:19:17.279 --> 00:19:19.279 doing as a Mason is pledging yourself to try to 345 00:19:19.279 --> 00:19:19.920 find it again. 346 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:24.799 Now, is it true that there are higher levels above 347 00:19:24.839 --> 00:19:26.480 the thirty three degree. 348 00:19:26.960 --> 00:19:29.319 Many many higher levels. 349 00:19:29.279 --> 00:19:32.720 Well, it depends very much. Hire is a really challenge. 350 00:19:32.759 --> 00:19:37.799 I think it's what your basic structure of Freemasonry is not. 351 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.359 It's not a linear hierarchy. It's not that you know 352 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:43.519 all the third degree Masons are obedient to the fourth 353 00:19:43.559 --> 00:19:47.680 degree Masons, and so on of and you know you've 354 00:19:47.680 --> 00:19:50.880 got I mean, in the United States, you've got fifty 355 00:19:51.039 --> 00:19:54.880 different state grand lodges who don't take orders from anybody. 356 00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:56.960 And you have the York Right and the Scottish Right, 357 00:19:57.079 --> 00:19:59.920 which are two sets of higher degrees, and some may 358 00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:01.920 since join one, and some Masons join the other, and 359 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.680 some joined both. And if they were to try to 360 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:07.680 give orders to the grandmasters of the Masonic cologees, they'd 361 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:15.519 be in deep kimchi. It's this confused, jumbled, disorganized mess, frankly, 362 00:20:15.720 --> 00:20:17.680 and that's one of the things that made that has 363 00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:21.039 made it thrive, because if the grand master of one 364 00:20:21.279 --> 00:20:25.680 Masonic organization gets really stupid and starts ordering dumb things, 365 00:20:25.880 --> 00:20:28.960 you know it doesn't affect anybody else. So are there 366 00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:31.839 levels above the thirty three? Well, if you happen to 367 00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:34.359 belong to the right of Memphis and Misraim, sure they 368 00:20:34.359 --> 00:20:37.759 have ninety nine degrees of initiation. Almost nobody belongs to 369 00:20:37.759 --> 00:20:41.759 it anymore in this country. The Scottish Rite, which goes 370 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:44.519 up to the thirty third, that's the highest that that's 371 00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:46.920 the largest number of degrees that are commonly taken, and 372 00:20:46.960 --> 00:20:50.039 in fact, at the thirty I'm not a thirty thirty 373 00:20:50.039 --> 00:20:52.440 degree Mason, but I have read that one of the 374 00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.160 obligations you take at the thirty third is not to 375 00:20:57.279 --> 00:20:59.960 join any organization that claims to have any higher degree. 376 00:21:01.880 --> 00:21:06.480 Right now, there's a go ahead, go ahead, No, go ahead. No. 377 00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:08.440 I was just going to say that there's there seems 378 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:12.559 to be this other huge misconception whenever it's surrounding secret 379 00:21:12.599 --> 00:21:15.839 societies and people in power, that it's that when we 380 00:21:15.920 --> 00:21:20.640 look at I guess politics and people in corporation, that 381 00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:23.480 there's this one pyramid that we're at the bottom and 382 00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.319 they're the top, but they're all part of the secret organization, 383 00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:30.759 like the secret society that rules over the planet. And 384 00:21:30.759 --> 00:21:32.880 I'm more of the belief that, you know, these people 385 00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:34.599 don't know what the hell each other are doing, and 386 00:21:34.640 --> 00:21:37.400 it's all about greed and what they want for their 387 00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:38.160 personal gain. 388 00:21:38.319 --> 00:21:38.519 Right. 389 00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:40.599 Yeah, No, I think I think you're I think you're 390 00:21:40.599 --> 00:21:43.759 absolutely right. The thing that the thing that I've observed 391 00:21:43.880 --> 00:21:48.039 watching politics in business as I do as as astrologer, 392 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:52.240 among other things, is that it's not a single pyramid. 393 00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:55.079 You've got these different power centers these different groups of 394 00:21:55.119 --> 00:21:57.720 people who have a lot of money and a lot 395 00:21:57.720 --> 00:22:00.240 of power, a lot of influence and so on, and 396 00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:04.000 they're fighting each other, they're at each other's throats, and 397 00:22:04.079 --> 00:22:07.720 so you have this this faction trying to claw their 398 00:22:07.720 --> 00:22:10.799 way past that faction, and this pressure group trying to 399 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.319 force its its views. Well, well, three other pressure groups 400 00:22:14.359 --> 00:22:17.200 are fighting against them, and so on. It's a mess. 401 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.759 And one of the reasons, in fact, that are that 402 00:22:22.519 --> 00:22:25.240 the United States, for example, is in such bad shape 403 00:22:25.279 --> 00:22:28.440 these days, is that there's so much stalemate at the 404 00:22:28.519 --> 00:22:33.400 upper levels. Nobody can get anything done because no matter 405 00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:35.480 what you do, you're stepping on someone's toes. And you know, 406 00:22:35.559 --> 00:22:39.000 the the oil industry isn't going to set, isn't gonna 407 00:22:39.279 --> 00:22:41.680 and the various rich families connects to it, they're going 408 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:44.559 to stop anything you do in that direction. Well, these 409 00:22:44.759 --> 00:22:47.440 other you know, these other rich families over here, you 410 00:22:47.519 --> 00:22:50.160 better not try that. And so it's all just frozen 411 00:22:50.279 --> 00:22:54.119 up in a stalemate, a stalemate of a bunch of rich, 412 00:22:54.680 --> 00:23:00.200 increasingly senile old men and women who are sitting on 413 00:23:00.359 --> 00:23:03.000 the levers of power and don't know what to do 414 00:23:03.039 --> 00:23:05.559 with them anymore, and don't really want to do anything 415 00:23:05.599 --> 00:23:08.640 with him other than just keep stay rich and powerful, 416 00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:11.920 and you know, we'll see what happens. But that's not 417 00:23:12.039 --> 00:23:13.720 usually something that lasts indefinitely. 418 00:23:14.039 --> 00:23:16.160 Well, do you see a lot of what's happening today 419 00:23:16.279 --> 00:23:20.200 in our current society as that kind of last grip on? 420 00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:22.319 They want to hold on to as much power as 421 00:23:22.319 --> 00:23:24.119 they can because they know it's all falling apart. 422 00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:27.079 Basically, I think that's a lot of it. Partly it's 423 00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:31.759 a generational thing. Previous before the Baby Boomers, previous generations 424 00:23:31.799 --> 00:23:34.240 when they hit seventy ors so they dropped out when 425 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:37.559 they got into their sixties. They were tired. The Boomers 426 00:23:37.599 --> 00:23:42.000 are clinging to power with a death grip. Partly, you know, 427 00:23:42.119 --> 00:23:46.039 they've they I think the tragedy of the Baby Boom generation. 428 00:23:46.119 --> 00:23:47.920 I'm speaking of my own generation here, by the way, 429 00:23:48.000 --> 00:23:52.519 so I'm but the tragedy of the Baby Boom generation 430 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:57.799 is that it had these these glorious ideals and it 431 00:23:57.839 --> 00:24:02.759 proceeded to sell out over and over and over again. 432 00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.039 And at this point, you know, the sixties were a 433 00:24:06.079 --> 00:24:08.200 long time ago, and the you know, the boomers have 434 00:24:08.279 --> 00:24:10.119 got to be looking back and seeing that they've become 435 00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.559 everything they hated everything they thought they were rebelling against. 436 00:24:13.640 --> 00:24:16.440 But for them to retire, for them to step down 437 00:24:16.759 --> 00:24:19.359 and let other generations shove them aside and take their place, 438 00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:22.920 that would be admitting that their dreams were you know, 439 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:25.680 they sold their dreams, that they cashed out and walked 440 00:24:25.680 --> 00:24:28.200 away from them. I don't think they can stand that. 441 00:24:28.839 --> 00:24:31.880 I think they still cling to that fantasy that they 442 00:24:31.880 --> 00:24:35.240 are the generation that matters, they are the young important, 443 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:37.039 even though they are a bunch of you know, at 444 00:24:37.039 --> 00:24:39.200 this point, there are a bunch of senial old farts 445 00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:41.000 who haven't had a new idea in forty years. 446 00:24:41.359 --> 00:24:43.359 Well, it seems like at that end they were also 447 00:24:43.480 --> 00:24:46.200 fed a huge line of bs about their own history 448 00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:48.480 and existence up until this point. 449 00:24:48.599 --> 00:24:51.039 You know, Oh yeah, and they and they have and 450 00:24:51.079 --> 00:24:54.920 they have maximized that since then, basically rewriting history to 451 00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:57.480 make the Baby Boomers look like like, you know, a 452 00:24:57.519 --> 00:25:01.440 generational messiah, but over above the Baby boon you know, 453 00:25:01.440 --> 00:25:03.599 because you've got that one generation. But you've also got 454 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:07.240 the simple fact that we've run, we've pushed this particular 455 00:25:07.319 --> 00:25:10.519 kind of industrial society, this kind of way of living, 456 00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:14.039 We've pushed it as far as we can go. We're 457 00:25:14.079 --> 00:25:17.680 seeing at this point, you know, the bare shelves over 458 00:25:17.759 --> 00:25:20.359 in Europe. They're having another round of energy crises. We'll 459 00:25:20.359 --> 00:25:24.799 have one here in the near future. We've basically that 460 00:25:25.039 --> 00:25:28.559 whole way of trying to live, treating the Earth as 461 00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:32.640 nothing but resources, nothing but a garbage dump, the whole 462 00:25:32.640 --> 00:25:35.160 way of saying we're you know, we run things, we 463 00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:37.720 have the power. You know, we're the tech we're the 464 00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:41.119 technological marvels of the world, and we're going to the stars. 465 00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:46.599 It's failed. It's over. Stick a fork in. It is 466 00:25:46.640 --> 00:25:51.559 that well done, and many, many people don't want to 467 00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.200 admit that. Many people don't want to deal with the 468 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.240 fact that we and it is fact, of course, that 469 00:25:56.319 --> 00:26:00.640 we need to stop. We need to regroup. We need 470 00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:03.000 to look at what kind of lifestyles we can actually 471 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:06.119 support with the renewable resources or what we're going to 472 00:26:06.200 --> 00:26:08.440 have left in the not to distant future, and we 473 00:26:08.559 --> 00:26:13.880 need to downshift big time so that we you know, 474 00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:16.279 but people won't do that. People are stuck on that 475 00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:19.720 myth of progress. They're stuck on that that's that dream 476 00:26:19.839 --> 00:26:24.200 of star trek future metastasizing across the galaxy or something. 477 00:26:24.480 --> 00:26:27.119 Even though we know it's not going to happen. Even 478 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:29.920 you know, it's been what fifty years now since space 479 00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.559 probes came back telling us that outer space is full 480 00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:35.440 of hard radiation and we're not going to We're not 481 00:26:35.480 --> 00:26:38.039 even going to Mars. Because you want to set up 482 00:26:38.039 --> 00:26:42.279 a colony of Mars. That's great. Rite your will before 483 00:26:42.319 --> 00:26:44.880 you go, because you'll be dead of radiation, poisoning and 484 00:26:44.920 --> 00:26:47.440 cancer before you have a chance to get back right. 485 00:26:47.519 --> 00:26:50.839 It really is that serious. And ever since the Sevities, 486 00:26:50.880 --> 00:26:53.680 ever since the US and Soviet you need, both canceled 487 00:26:53.720 --> 00:26:57.400 their space programs because they got that information the space 488 00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.640 probes brought this stuff back and they were, oops, well 489 00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:02.200 that's not going to work with it. So we dropped 490 00:27:02.200 --> 00:27:04.960 our moon program, and the Russian simply canceled. There's halfway through, 491 00:27:04.960 --> 00:27:06.960 before they'd even gotten to the Moon, everyone stopped talking 492 00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:11.480 about going to Mars. Accept the myth, except the vision, 493 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:15.799 the dream, the star Trek fantasy was so deeply rooted 494 00:27:15.880 --> 00:27:18.400 in the minds of the privileged classes. They could not 495 00:27:18.920 --> 00:27:22.359 bear the thought that they weren't going to get the 496 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:29.680 Flash Gordon future that they wanted. And so, you know, 497 00:27:29.880 --> 00:27:32.039 unfortunately that doesn't mean they're going to get it. That 498 00:27:32.119 --> 00:27:34.200 just means we all have a much rougher future ahead. 499 00:27:35.359 --> 00:27:38.640 Yeah, you're spot on with that. There's a lot of 500 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.359 that though. I Mean the biggest I guess form of 501 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:45.519 magic that I can identify in my daily life is 502 00:27:45.559 --> 00:27:48.519 actually a weaponized form and it's on the TV. Every 503 00:27:48.519 --> 00:27:52.519 time I turn on the TV. There it is boom, bringwa. 504 00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:56.519 You have a winner you Yes? Yeah, that isn't that 505 00:27:56.640 --> 00:28:01.240 the cheap sorcery of advertising. Yeah, the cheap sorcery that 506 00:28:01.359 --> 00:28:06.240 convinces you that your happiness, your self esteem, your value 507 00:28:06.240 --> 00:28:08.839 as a person depends on running on buying some piece 508 00:28:08.880 --> 00:28:14.240 of sleazy corporate crap. That is sorcery that is, and 509 00:28:14.680 --> 00:28:18.079 that's being blasted at you out of the television, off 510 00:28:18.119 --> 00:28:24.000 the internet, on now, social media, billboards, everything, because you know, 511 00:28:24.240 --> 00:28:26.359 it started out as a way to try to sell, 512 00:28:26.559 --> 00:28:28.279 you know, to sell things at people. At this point, 513 00:28:28.400 --> 00:28:31.839 they're not selling things. They're selling lifestyle. They're selling belief 514 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:37.559 in the system because the system is cracking. And if 515 00:28:37.680 --> 00:28:43.079 enough people turn off the television, turn off the social media, 516 00:28:43.400 --> 00:28:46.119 get rid of you know, the drop out of the 517 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:49.200 advertising things, don't run off to the stores to buy 518 00:28:49.319 --> 00:28:53.160 this sleazy corporate crap in question, then the whole thing 519 00:28:53.680 --> 00:29:01.920 comes unglued. At this point, they're desperate, and yeah, what 520 00:29:02.599 --> 00:29:05.440 this shows us is that magic is powerful, but it's 521 00:29:05.559 --> 00:29:09.680 not omnipotent. And in particular, if you realize that magic 522 00:29:09.759 --> 00:29:13.279 is being used against you, you recognize what the magic is, 523 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:18.119 and you limit your exposure to it and do the opposite, 524 00:29:18.400 --> 00:29:23.519 go against it, make your own choices. Then magic fails 525 00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:24.519 and you succeed. 526 00:29:25.880 --> 00:29:29.519 Do you think that at the earliest onset of the 527 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:34.119 television and programming that the ones behind and in charge 528 00:29:34.200 --> 00:29:37.160 of some of this programming knew that this was a 529 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:39.240 form of magic and the power that it could have 530 00:29:39.359 --> 00:29:39.880 on people. 531 00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.759 Do you happen to know where the first television the 532 00:29:44.759 --> 00:29:49.079 first regular scheduled television broadcast took place. Who did it? 533 00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:55.920 Nazi Germany before the Second World War. You bet they knew, 534 00:29:55.920 --> 00:29:58.680 They knew exactly what they were doing. And just as 535 00:29:58.759 --> 00:30:01.200 so many other features of the Nazi state were picked 536 00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:04.240 up by the victor, by the victorious powers of the 537 00:30:04.240 --> 00:30:07.559 West and then use it put you know, put in place. 538 00:30:08.359 --> 00:30:11.319 Advertising was one of them. This sort of saturation propaganda 539 00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:16.279 that Hitler the Hitler's regime tested out on Germany as 540 00:30:16.319 --> 00:30:18.079 soon as the war was over. We saw it in 541 00:30:18.119 --> 00:30:22.119 America with the television leading the way it was. You know, 542 00:30:22.119 --> 00:30:24.079 it's like it's like the one of the tricks that 543 00:30:24.119 --> 00:30:25.880 the Nazis used, one of the one of the reasons 544 00:30:25.880 --> 00:30:28.920 they maintained their popularity. Did you know that when they 545 00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.759 when they took one of the first things they did 546 00:30:30.880 --> 00:30:36.319 was give two weeks of vacation to every German worker. Wow. Yeah, 547 00:30:36.519 --> 00:30:39.480 that's why that got picked up here right after the 548 00:30:39.519 --> 00:30:42.480 Second World or all of a sudden, there was vacation 549 00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:45.680 pay because what happened was that a lot of people, 550 00:30:45.720 --> 00:30:47.880 and a lot of people in the US ruling elite 551 00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:51.640 looked at the Nazi situation and said, if we don't 552 00:30:52.079 --> 00:30:54.839 do something like this, somebody's going to do the same 553 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:57.440 thing to us that Hitler did to the German elites, 554 00:30:58.000 --> 00:31:01.359 and we don't want that. So they so a lot 555 00:31:01.400 --> 00:31:03.640 of the features of modern American life where if I'd 556 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:08.240 copied from Nazi Germany, and certainly saturation television and the 557 00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:13.039 propaganda of consume, consume, consume, that was part of it. Yeah, 558 00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.880 I mean, right now, you turn on you turn on television, 559 00:31:15.960 --> 00:31:20.000 you see the the puppet on a stick. Currently in 560 00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:23.000 the White House, you know, And it's it's all the 561 00:31:23.400 --> 00:31:27.039 similarities to to the whole Naza. You got the flags 562 00:31:27.079 --> 00:31:30.279 in the background, you've got all the cameras focused on him. 563 00:31:30.400 --> 00:31:33.079 It's exactly like a scene from Triumph of the Will, 564 00:31:33.880 --> 00:31:38.359 all those those visual gimmicks which you did not see 565 00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:42.240 before then, you did not see that in American public life. 566 00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:44.839 It's all out of that. And that's that's why, you know, 567 00:31:44.880 --> 00:31:47.559 people people go through the motions of pretending that Joe 568 00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:52.319 Biden actually is like running the country. 569 00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:51.079 And. 570 00:31:52.599 --> 00:31:56.079 You're absolutely right, no. And I can see it in 571 00:31:56.119 --> 00:31:59.519 my personal life every day. People that I knew my 572 00:31:59.559 --> 00:32:02.160 whole life. It's like they're under some kind of spell. 573 00:32:02.160 --> 00:32:05.599 It's like they've been brainwashed. They can't see what's going on. 574 00:32:05.720 --> 00:32:07.400 You can, you can explain it, you can break it 575 00:32:07.440 --> 00:32:11.319 down a thousand different ways. What's really happening. It doesn't matter. 576 00:32:11.359 --> 00:32:13.160 They're just you know, they're gone. 577 00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:18.039 Yeah, exactly, droll puddling in their labs. Yeah, yeah, there's 578 00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:22.119 there's and and it's become more intense and for for 579 00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:26.920 psychological reasons, as the gap between what what's supposed to 580 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:30.599 happen what actually happens, as that gap has widened, the 581 00:32:30.680 --> 00:32:34.920 trence becomes deeper. There's a thing called cognitive dissonance, which 582 00:32:34.960 --> 00:32:37.440 is well worth looking up. If you know are are 583 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:39.799 I'm sure you're familiar with it, but our listeners may 584 00:32:39.799 --> 00:32:42.920 not be. Cognitive dissonance is what happens when you believe 585 00:32:42.960 --> 00:32:45.279 that one thing is true, but the experience is telling 586 00:32:45.319 --> 00:32:48.680 you that a different thing is true. If you can't afford, 587 00:32:48.880 --> 00:32:50.839 if you can't let yourself give up your belief, if 588 00:32:50.839 --> 00:32:54.599 you're emotionally invested in that belief, you go into cognitive dissonance, 589 00:32:54.640 --> 00:32:57.640 where you have to pretend that the world is A 590 00:32:57.920 --> 00:33:01.119 when it's actually B. And the bigger the gap becomes, 591 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:05.160 the more frantic you become trying to insist that it's 592 00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:07.480 a One of the ways you can tell someone's in 593 00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:11.640 cognitive dissonance is that they preach. They're constantly pushing people 594 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:13.920 around them. You've got to believe X. You've got to 595 00:33:14.000 --> 00:33:17.559 do X. You've got to because if they convince other people, 596 00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:22.200 that helps them keep convincing themselves. And there's a lot 597 00:33:22.240 --> 00:33:25.160 of other things, but cognitive dissonance it puts it because 598 00:33:25.200 --> 00:33:28.400 people who are deep in cognitive dissonance, you get that 599 00:33:28.519 --> 00:33:31.640 trance like effect you get that thousand miles stair good, 600 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:37.279 that inability to process even very simple arguments. It's just 601 00:33:37.400 --> 00:33:40.799 kind of uh. And then they repeat the same SoundBite 602 00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:45.160 because that's their defense against realizing that everything they think 603 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:49.440 they know about the world is wrong and that they're 604 00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:53.160 going to have to wake up, shake themselves away, and 605 00:33:53.559 --> 00:33:56.880 enter a harsh new world. And so there's a lot 606 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:59.079 of that these days. There's a huge amount of cognitive 607 00:33:59.079 --> 00:34:02.880 dissonance in today's America, because the America that's presented by 608 00:34:02.920 --> 00:34:06.640 the media, that's presented by advertising, that's presented by the 609 00:34:06.680 --> 00:34:09.760 propaganda of our society, and the America that we actually 610 00:34:09.800 --> 00:34:14.199 live in are two completely different countries. Yep. 611 00:34:14.719 --> 00:34:17.000 And on the same token, I do see a lot 612 00:34:17.079 --> 00:34:20.639 of people waking up and breaking free from this spell 613 00:34:20.679 --> 00:34:22.800 at the same time. So it's kind of like, you know, 614 00:34:22.840 --> 00:34:25.320 you have both sides of it. People still stay asleep 615 00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:27.920 and maybe even going deeper into their sleep, and some 616 00:34:28.039 --> 00:34:31.719 people waking up from this spell that they've been And. 617 00:34:32.320 --> 00:34:35.760 That's typically what happens as cognitive dissonance becomes more extreme 618 00:34:35.800 --> 00:34:39.159 because it's harder, it takes more and more effort, more 619 00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:43.559 and more emotional investment in in the false belief to 620 00:34:43.719 --> 00:34:47.440 cling to that, and so typically people get to the 621 00:34:47.480 --> 00:34:50.519 point they can't do it anymore and they go through 622 00:34:51.480 --> 00:34:55.199 the the you know, the traumatic experience of shaking themselves 623 00:34:55.199 --> 00:34:58.000 out of that. And this is one piece of advice 624 00:34:58.039 --> 00:35:01.760 I'd like to offer all of our listeners. Okay, if 625 00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:05.920 you get someone who comes to you saying, crap, I 626 00:35:06.079 --> 00:35:09.800 was wrong, you were right, don't nascity to them. There. 627 00:35:09.840 --> 00:35:11.800 They've just you know, they've literally just had their world 628 00:35:11.800 --> 00:35:15.280 turned upside down. You know, get them, get them, buy 629 00:35:15.280 --> 00:35:17.360 them a beer and sit down and let them talk 630 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:19.880 through it, and you know, give them, give them a 631 00:35:19.880 --> 00:35:23.039 sympathetic year. They desperately need that. And the more the 632 00:35:23.119 --> 00:35:24.880 more people wake up that way, and the more people 633 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:27.000 are helped to wake up that way, the sooner we 634 00:35:27.039 --> 00:35:28.840 can return to a little more general sanity. 635 00:35:31.199 --> 00:35:34.639 Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Now, do you think 636 00:35:34.639 --> 00:35:38.440 that one of the aspects that magic has been kind 637 00:35:38.440 --> 00:35:42.320 of shoved under the car carpet and we're not you know, 638 00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.639 been hidden from the American consciousness and the world for 639 00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.039 so long, is that there's a free energy aspect involved 640 00:35:49.199 --> 00:35:53.119 that if you know, the mass populace found out about it. 641 00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.760 A lot of other industries would be out of business. 642 00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:01.960 I am really, I'm really agnostic about that. Because every 643 00:36:02.039 --> 00:36:04.880 version of free energy that I've ever seen has turned 644 00:36:04.880 --> 00:36:07.679 out to be inaccurate or fraudulent. That doesn't mean they 645 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.599 l are so far, you know, I want I want 646 00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:16.039 to see I want to see working machine. Now. The 647 00:36:16.119 --> 00:36:19.280 thing is, there's another way in which that is that 648 00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:23.639 is absolutely right, which is that an enormous amount of 649 00:36:23.639 --> 00:36:27.119 the energy that we use outwardly is a complete waste. 650 00:36:27.320 --> 00:36:30.079 We can do without it and put the end of 651 00:36:30.119 --> 00:36:32.960 the the actual sources of energy we have to more 652 00:36:33.000 --> 00:36:36.559 sensible uses. And so there's there's kind of a kind 653 00:36:36.599 --> 00:36:39.280 of a symbolic sense in which that's true. As for 654 00:36:39.320 --> 00:36:42.480 whether it's to another sense, as I say, I'm completely agnostic. 655 00:36:45.280 --> 00:36:51.039 Fair enough, now when it comes to the practice of 656 00:36:51.840 --> 00:36:57.159 I guess contact with spirits or even angels or demons, 657 00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:00.159 what are your thoughts on this? Are these really the 658 00:37:00.440 --> 00:37:04.440 like spirits past of people who were living or is 659 00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:08.039 this some kind of energy? What are we actually kind 660 00:37:08.039 --> 00:37:10.400 of communicating with and communing with here? 661 00:37:10.400 --> 00:37:13.199 Okay, okay. The first thing I want to say about 662 00:37:13.239 --> 00:37:15.719 that is that this is not something you want to 663 00:37:15.760 --> 00:37:19.239 do if you're not very experienced. Most of magic has 664 00:37:19.320 --> 00:37:22.000 nothing to do with messing around with spirits, and it 665 00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:24.840 can be very dangerous. So this is, you know, do 666 00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:27.679 not try this at home unless you've got plenty of 667 00:37:27.719 --> 00:37:30.800 knowledge and plenty of experience. I just want to say 668 00:37:30.800 --> 00:37:35.159 that first, Now, what actually are these things that people 669 00:37:35.239 --> 00:37:40.719 contact in rituals of vacation? The only really honest answers 670 00:37:41.039 --> 00:37:44.360 we have no way of knowing. Philosophers have been telling 671 00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:46.360 us for a long time, we really have no way 672 00:37:46.360 --> 00:37:49.360 of knowing much of anything. What we experience with our 673 00:37:49.400 --> 00:37:53.039 senses may not be what's actually there. With regard to 674 00:37:54.000 --> 00:38:01.480 disembodied beings, well, something answers, and sometimes tis what answers 675 00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:05.280 certainly seems to be, you know, the soul of of 676 00:38:05.320 --> 00:38:07.800 a human being who used to live in a physical body. 677 00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:12.400 And sometimes what answers seems to be some kind of 678 00:38:12.440 --> 00:38:17.360 being that is wiser and morally morally better than human beings, 679 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:19.360 something that we might consider to be like an angel. 680 00:38:19.920 --> 00:38:23.760 And there are such beings who are malevolent, who are destructive, 681 00:38:23.840 --> 00:38:29.719 who are tricky, who are predatory. So whatever they are, 682 00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:33.559 you know, we don't actually we don't. I mean, you 683 00:38:33.559 --> 00:38:36.280 can't exactly apply apply like letting this paper to these 684 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:38.920 things and find out. That's one of the challenges when 685 00:38:38.960 --> 00:38:41.400 you're dealing with a non physical But one of the 686 00:38:41.400 --> 00:38:43.000 things that we know for sure is there are many 687 00:38:43.039 --> 00:38:46.719 different varieties of these things. They can be contacted. It's 688 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:48.320 not a good idea to do it unless you have 689 00:38:48.360 --> 00:38:51.159 plenty of experience that they can be contacted, and they 690 00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:55.519 cover a very wide range of types. There are some 691 00:38:55.599 --> 00:38:58.480 that seem to be much less intelligent than human beings, 692 00:38:58.519 --> 00:39:00.920 some that seem to be equally intel some that are 693 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:03.920 apparently much more intelligent than we are. There are some, 694 00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:06.239 as I mentioned, that are morally are better and some 695 00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:10.159 that are morally much worse. And so it's a very 696 00:39:10.199 --> 00:39:17.119 complicated issue, and it's one that needs careful, systematic, and 697 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:22.199 competently done work to try to sort things out. One 698 00:39:22.239 --> 00:39:24.239 of the things we know for sure is that people 699 00:39:24.239 --> 00:39:26.199 who just pick up a whaager board or something like 700 00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:29.079 that are likely to land in trouble because there are 701 00:39:29.159 --> 00:39:32.920 again spirits out there, whatever they are, that will lie 702 00:39:33.000 --> 00:39:36.039 themselves in the face. There are things out there that 703 00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:41.400 do not have your best interests in mind at all, 704 00:39:41.679 --> 00:39:44.239 and you don't necessarily want to deal with them, right, 705 00:39:44.480 --> 00:39:46.360 So it's a complex issue. 706 00:39:47.519 --> 00:39:50.480 What would you say some of the most common reasons 707 00:39:50.519 --> 00:39:54.920 that practitioners would contact a spirit or want to get 708 00:39:54.920 --> 00:39:55.519 involved in that. 709 00:39:56.480 --> 00:40:01.079 Okay, well, there are good reasons and there are bad reasons. Okay, 710 00:40:01.280 --> 00:40:03.199 I'm going to talk about the bad reasons first, because 711 00:40:03.199 --> 00:40:05.480 there's a there's a subculture within the sort of pop 712 00:40:05.519 --> 00:40:08.360 a could scene that that has been getting into that 713 00:40:08.440 --> 00:40:11.360 over the last last couple of decades, and it's it's 714 00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:13.400 one of those one of the perfectly bad ideas that 715 00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:19.280 people get into. To actually do magic yourself, to actually 716 00:40:19.519 --> 00:40:23.800 work with the subtle energies, transform your consciences, transform the 717 00:40:23.800 --> 00:40:26.199 consciouences of other people. That is a lot of work. 718 00:40:26.519 --> 00:40:33.079 It requires hard, disciplined, focused work for years. The reason 719 00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:36.400 that people summon demons is they think that's the easy way. 720 00:40:37.320 --> 00:40:39.679 They think, I don't need to do this myself. I 721 00:40:39.719 --> 00:40:42.719 can just command this spirit and make it do what 722 00:40:42.760 --> 00:40:46.960 I want to. It doesn't usually work that way, but 723 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:49.920 the demon's perfectly happy to tell you anything you want 724 00:40:49.960 --> 00:40:53.360 to hear. And so you get people who are who 725 00:40:53.440 --> 00:40:56.280 they want and view human beings or human beings right. 726 00:40:56.800 --> 00:40:59.679 They want money, they want to get rich, they want 727 00:41:00.679 --> 00:41:02.800 you know, they want to make lots of people of 728 00:41:02.800 --> 00:41:08.400 their preferred gender sexually available to them. They want a power, 729 00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:11.920 They want influence, they want something with tentacles to rise 730 00:41:12.000 --> 00:41:14.880 up and devour the vice principal at their high school, 731 00:41:14.960 --> 00:41:19.719 or something that I seriously early on in my career 732 00:41:19.719 --> 00:41:22.440 as a writer, I would back when my address was 733 00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:24.840 fairly readily available. And this is before the Internet, mind you, 734 00:41:25.000 --> 00:41:27.360 So it was not just people were writing letters or 735 00:41:27.360 --> 00:41:30.360 in their writing emails. I would get letters from these 736 00:41:30.360 --> 00:41:33.719 people who were obviously like fifteen years old, who wanted 737 00:41:33.719 --> 00:41:35.880 me to give them a spell so that they could 738 00:41:35.960 --> 00:41:39.079 summon Zulu from the deeps to devour their vice friends, 739 00:41:39.079 --> 00:41:42.360 their high school vice principle. Wow, And I was going, 740 00:41:42.599 --> 00:41:45.960 come on, it's funny in a certain way. And that 741 00:41:46.039 --> 00:41:49.760 same mentality, of course expresses it self in variance other ways. 742 00:41:50.719 --> 00:41:55.840 So those are that's the bad reason for contacting suits, right, Okay. 743 00:41:56.559 --> 00:42:00.440 Contacting dead human beings is rarely, if ever, a good idea. 744 00:42:00.599 --> 00:42:03.840 There are times it's necessary. When a human soul has 745 00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:06.840 gotten stuck between lives as what we call a ghost, 746 00:42:07.360 --> 00:42:09.440 it can be necessary to communicate with them in order 747 00:42:09.519 --> 00:42:12.719 to let them set them free, to basically cut them 748 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:14.000 loose so they can go on to the rest of 749 00:42:14.000 --> 00:42:17.039 the afterlife and no longer be stuck where they are. 750 00:42:18.519 --> 00:42:23.039 There are times when ghosts will deliberately seek out people 751 00:42:23.119 --> 00:42:25.840 to communicate to, you know, if there's something that they 752 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.639 left undone in their lives. If you know there's there's 753 00:42:28.760 --> 00:42:31.639 the the last will is still walked in a dusk 754 00:42:31.800 --> 00:42:35.199 or somewhere, and the ghost is saying, look in the drawer, 755 00:42:35.280 --> 00:42:38.400 look in the drawer, and you know the people and 756 00:42:38.679 --> 00:42:40.920 it needs to find somebody will hear it. So you 757 00:42:41.000 --> 00:42:43.639 have these various things, various points of connection. I'm not 758 00:42:44.079 --> 00:42:47.519 I don't recommend the sort of mediumistic spiritualism type stuff 759 00:42:47.519 --> 00:42:49.920 where people are just hanging out with dead folks all 760 00:42:49.920 --> 00:42:52.960 the time. A we don't know if it's actually the 761 00:42:53.000 --> 00:42:56.679 dead people. It might be almost anything, and it doesn't 762 00:42:56.679 --> 00:43:00.679 seem to do anyone any good. But now of angels. 763 00:43:02.840 --> 00:43:05.480 Working with angels is something that the angel magic is 764 00:43:05.480 --> 00:43:07.639 something that a lot of people do in certain classes, 765 00:43:07.639 --> 00:43:11.639 certain certain schools of magical practice, and it can be 766 00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:14.079 very effective, very positive. But the thing you have to 767 00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:16.719 remember about angels that they're smarter than you are and 768 00:43:16.760 --> 00:43:19.840 you can't tell them what to do. Seriously. They you 769 00:43:19.880 --> 00:43:24.280 know that you you don't rank, you don't you don't 770 00:43:24.320 --> 00:43:26.119 have the rating to tell an angel what to do. 771 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:30.559 But you can cooperate with the angel and receive certain 772 00:43:30.679 --> 00:43:33.960 energies from the angel if the angel wants something to happen. 773 00:43:35.639 --> 00:43:38.280 And so there are ways to participate in that flow 774 00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:42.480 of where they could be very advantageous. You know, the 775 00:43:42.480 --> 00:43:44.840 the divine powers that run the cosmos want human beings 776 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:46.920 to be wiser and better. If you want to attain wisdom, 777 00:43:47.159 --> 00:43:49.360 you can invoke. You can invoke angels, and the angels 778 00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:52.000 are very interested and helping you become more wise. It 779 00:43:52.079 --> 00:43:56.039 may hurt, but they'll help you. 780 00:43:56.119 --> 00:43:58.119 Now I want, I want you to address something that's 781 00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:01.320 a found very interesting that's happening recently. It's the whole 782 00:44:01.760 --> 00:44:05.000 contact with aliens phenomenon. I know, when I started this 783 00:44:05.079 --> 00:44:08.159 show I've had I had a completely different perspective of 784 00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:11.440 aliens and extraterrestrials and what's going on there than I 785 00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:15.719 do now. I completely believe it's more of a spiritual thing. 786 00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.840 It could be something influence, you know, spiritual that we're contacting. 787 00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:22.199 I've had my own contact experience and it took that 788 00:44:22.280 --> 00:44:24.400 to kind of get my wheels turning on what the 789 00:44:24.400 --> 00:44:27.559 hell was did just happen? And I don't, I'm not. 790 00:44:27.559 --> 00:44:29.599 I'm pretty sure little green men aren't coming across the 791 00:44:29.639 --> 00:44:33.039 galaxy to visit us on their tin cans. So you know, 792 00:44:33.119 --> 00:44:35.199 there's something else apparently going on where. 793 00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:38.119 People are making contact, and it has been going on 794 00:44:38.199 --> 00:44:41.000 since the beginning of recorded history. This is the thing 795 00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:44.440 that makes the whole UFO phenomenon so amazing. And here 796 00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.519 I want to I want to recommend two writers from 797 00:44:47.599 --> 00:44:50.400 the what was called the new wave of upology back 798 00:44:50.400 --> 00:44:54.800 in the nineteen seventies, Jacquesvallet and John feel Yeah, I 799 00:44:54.960 --> 00:44:59.320 love it. The Mosman Prophecies, when I was a teenager 800 00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.039 was one of my fas favorite books. 801 00:45:00.719 --> 00:45:01.519 In the world. 802 00:45:01.599 --> 00:45:06.480 I adored that book. What what Valet and Kiel pointed 803 00:45:06.480 --> 00:45:09.960 out was that the same things that are now being 804 00:45:10.039 --> 00:45:13.679 credited to little green men from Zeta reticular, little gray 805 00:45:13.719 --> 00:45:17.400 mans and data reticuli five hundred years ago were being 806 00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.960 blamed on elves and spirits. Yes, and if you go 807 00:45:21.079 --> 00:45:23.880 to every part of the world, you find stories about 808 00:45:23.960 --> 00:45:27.599 little little people who can mess with your mind, who 809 00:45:27.599 --> 00:45:31.239 will communicate with you, maybe who may abduct you. That 810 00:45:31.440 --> 00:45:35.400 you know these things. This, this is a normal part 811 00:45:36.239 --> 00:45:39.880 of existence on this world. We share this world with 812 00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:43.719 other intelligences, something that majes of you know, practice of 813 00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:47.239 magic have been saying all along, and the traditional traditional 814 00:45:47.239 --> 00:45:49.840 cultures have said along there there are these things which 815 00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:53.199 are not not quite physical as we know, as we 816 00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:56.880 know physical matter that interact with us. And it's really 817 00:45:57.000 --> 00:46:03.559 funny to watch the transformation where up until nineteen forty 818 00:46:03.679 --> 00:46:07.559 seven these things took various other forms, and then as 819 00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:10.880 science fiction became more popular, and then you had the 820 00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:14.360 first big UFO flap in nineteen forty seven, and you 821 00:46:14.440 --> 00:46:15.920 had a lot of occultists. You had a lot of 822 00:46:15.960 --> 00:46:18.840 people who were deeply involved in occult practices who were 823 00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:23.519 also very heavily involved in the early UFO scene. George 824 00:46:23.559 --> 00:46:25.920 Adamsky is a great example. He was one of the 825 00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:32.079 early contactees. He published hugely influential books about about UFOs 826 00:46:32.119 --> 00:46:35.320 and so on. Before then, he ran an organization called 827 00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:38.199 the Royal Order of Tibet, which was in occult school 828 00:46:38.320 --> 00:46:41.480 teaching magic in Los Angeles, California. I've seen some of 829 00:46:41.480 --> 00:46:45.599 their correspondence courses, the kind of interesting stuff. But yeah, 830 00:46:45.880 --> 00:46:49.519 he was deeply involved in Georgia van Tassel was deeply 831 00:46:49.559 --> 00:46:53.159 involved with Georghan Williamson, another major. All of these people 832 00:46:53.800 --> 00:46:56.719 who were really influential in the early period of the 833 00:46:56.840 --> 00:47:01.360 UFO scene, they came to it out of the occult scene. 834 00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:05.559 And so one of the things, I actually have a 835 00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:08.840 book on the subject, which if you're interested, I'll see 836 00:47:08.840 --> 00:47:10.800 if I can get I can get shake a copy 837 00:47:10.880 --> 00:47:14.159 loose from my publisher called The UFO Chronicles, which is 838 00:47:14.280 --> 00:47:18.039 talking about the role. It's a The UFO story is complicated. 839 00:47:18.039 --> 00:47:19.960 There are lots of different games being played there, and 840 00:47:19.960 --> 00:47:23.440 I think we can have an interesting conversation. But one 841 00:47:23.519 --> 00:47:25.559 of the things that was going on there is that 842 00:47:25.760 --> 00:47:29.440 a lot of people in the occult scene wanted to 843 00:47:29.719 --> 00:47:32.440 create the idea that we were being watched from outer 844 00:47:32.559 --> 00:47:36.440 space because they were terrified of the risk of nuclear war. 845 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:43.519 Ah and all of the early Saucer contactees, all of 846 00:47:43.639 --> 00:47:46.920 the aliens were saying, we're very concerned about your planets 847 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:50.920 building these nuclear weapons. You remember, and that plan Night 848 00:47:51.000 --> 00:47:54.639 from Outer Space the stupidest movie ever made. Okay, watch 849 00:47:54.719 --> 00:47:56.119 it if you have not had it. If you have 850 00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.599 not watched it, you are missing a treat. There are 851 00:47:59.679 --> 00:48:02.079 drinking games. But we don't have to go into that, 852 00:48:02.360 --> 00:48:05.079 but plan from outer space. That's one of his basic themes. 853 00:48:05.280 --> 00:48:09.360 All the day the Earth stood still, all this whole 854 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.639 idea was to make people go, hold it. What if 855 00:48:12.800 --> 00:48:15.400 we're being watched by Martians and they realize what a 856 00:48:15.519 --> 00:48:19.719 bunch of idiots were being. Yes, but that was one 857 00:48:19.719 --> 00:48:22.159 of the things going on. Yeah, but the thing is 858 00:48:22.199 --> 00:48:25.280 more generally, Yeah, if you take contact the accounts, you 859 00:48:25.360 --> 00:48:28.559 take abductee accounts, you take those and you compare them 860 00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:34.760 to shamanic experiences, to experiences from the Middle Ages of 861 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:38.159 people having encounters with elves and things like that, and 862 00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:42.320 it's obviously the same experience. So yeah, these are these 863 00:48:42.360 --> 00:48:45.639 are spiritual entities. They are not little green men or 864 00:48:45.719 --> 00:48:47.519 little gray men from Zeno reticuli. 865 00:48:47.840 --> 00:48:47.960 Right. 866 00:48:48.079 --> 00:48:51.039 They are they are. They are non physical beings who 867 00:48:51.400 --> 00:48:53.840 with whom human beings have interacted since the daunt of time. 868 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:58.519 And it's funny how everyone's experience is completely different, may 869 00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:01.559 have a few similarities here in there. And what we 870 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:04.400 see in the sky has changed throughout the years. You know, 871 00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:06.760 it used to be what like airships or saucers. Now 872 00:49:06.800 --> 00:49:10.960 they're little plasma balls and just more advanced type of things. Yeah, 873 00:49:11.039 --> 00:49:13.920 it changes with our consciousness, it seems it partially. 874 00:49:13.960 --> 00:49:16.000 It changes with our conscience. But there's another factor here, 875 00:49:16.079 --> 00:49:18.760 and is this actually ties into magic in a certain way, 876 00:49:19.360 --> 00:49:23.719 because there's the if you track what's going on, say, 877 00:49:23.800 --> 00:49:26.760 start from nineteen forty seven, where these little silver dots 878 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.079 were seen and photographed in the sky. Then you get 879 00:49:30.159 --> 00:49:33.000 a little later into the early nineteen fifties where these 880 00:49:33.239 --> 00:49:35.639 these points of light are buzzing around at certain times 881 00:49:35.679 --> 00:49:39.480 at certain places, and thinks this happens, this happens by 882 00:49:39.480 --> 00:49:42.320 the nineteen eighties, all of a sudden, it's black triangles 883 00:49:43.840 --> 00:49:48.239 and so on. What you find is if you look 884 00:49:48.280 --> 00:49:52.679 at what experimental secret craft the US Air Force was 885 00:49:52.760 --> 00:49:58.679 testing at that time. Gosh, in nineteen forty seven, high 886 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:01.440 altitude balloons, which will like silver dots for a distance. 887 00:50:02.280 --> 00:50:05.639 In the nineteen fifties, you two and SR seventy one 888 00:50:05.679 --> 00:50:09.480 spyplane flights and the earliest generation to spy satellites black triangles. 889 00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:12.480 What were we testing in the nineteen eighties that looked 890 00:50:12.519 --> 00:50:16.400 like a black triangle? I wonder what it's called stealth? 891 00:50:18.320 --> 00:50:21.039 All the way through. One of the other things that 892 00:50:21.440 --> 00:50:23.639 has been going on with the whole UFO thing is 893 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:26.000 the US Air Force has been using it as camouflage 894 00:50:26.639 --> 00:50:30.199 for its secret airplane activities. And we're not talking like 895 00:50:30.760 --> 00:50:34.000 these sort of exotic nonsense that the UFO scene life's 896 00:50:34.000 --> 00:50:36.440 talking about. We're not talking, you know, captured flying sauce. 897 00:50:36.840 --> 00:50:39.440 So we haven't reverse engineered the little Green manship. 898 00:50:40.280 --> 00:50:42.519 No, no, it would be nice if we had, but 899 00:50:42.679 --> 00:50:45.679 unfortunately there don't seem to have been any Little Green 900 00:50:45.719 --> 00:50:52.480 ship but the starting with the Roswell crash, which they announced, 901 00:50:52.480 --> 00:50:54.599 oh it's weather balloons, and no, no, it's it's it's 902 00:50:54.679 --> 00:50:57.039 alien things. We don't want the Russians to know that 903 00:50:57.119 --> 00:51:00.440 we're testing on high altitude balloon technology that we literally 904 00:51:00.519 --> 00:51:03.239 fly across the Soviet Union from end to end, which 905 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.760 we did, by the way, before we had good spyplanes. 906 00:51:06.800 --> 00:51:11.519 That's how we took pictures of their installations. And you know, 907 00:51:11.639 --> 00:51:14.400 and so there was this whole business with the Air 908 00:51:14.480 --> 00:51:18.159 Force feeding the UFO frenzy and shaping the UFO frenzy. 909 00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:24.360 How many big UFO revelations came from supposedly, you know, 910 00:51:24.519 --> 00:51:27.800 these these renegade groups of Air Force officers who were 911 00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:32.039 letting the truth out. I bet they've sat around laughing 912 00:51:32.119 --> 00:51:35.559 themselves sick watching how readily people believe that when a 913 00:51:35.639 --> 00:51:38.719 government employee tells you, here's the real truth that I'm 914 00:51:38.800 --> 00:51:42.159 letting out, you know he's lying. Okay, just assume as 915 00:51:42.199 --> 00:51:45.320 a matter of course he's lying. He is gaining you. 916 00:51:46.639 --> 00:51:49.039 What he hands you has been cleared by his higher 917 00:51:49.079 --> 00:51:51.280 officers because it's what they want you to believe. 918 00:51:51.920 --> 00:51:56.760 Yeah. Well, when it comes to the whole I guess 919 00:51:57.719 --> 00:52:00.320 kind of narrative of et human contact. One of the 920 00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:04.840 big things lately is that we were genetically engineered by aliens. 921 00:52:04.880 --> 00:52:08.039 That's how we had this huge advancement in human thought 922 00:52:08.119 --> 00:52:11.760 and technology, and you know, they've been advancing us throughout 923 00:52:11.800 --> 00:52:14.599 the years now. I do find it interesting how we 924 00:52:14.760 --> 00:52:17.719 have had these you know, jumps in advancement and technology 925 00:52:17.960 --> 00:52:21.280 and human you know, ingenuity and all these things that 926 00:52:21.360 --> 00:52:24.119 have happened from ancient times to today where it seems like, 927 00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:26.199 all of a sudden, we just have all these new 928 00:52:26.280 --> 00:52:29.519 technologies and we're able to do these fantastic things. I 929 00:52:29.599 --> 00:52:30.960 want to get your thoughts on do you think this 930 00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:34.000 could be a spiritual phenomenon where we could be making 931 00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.280 kind of contact with something else To get this information 932 00:52:37.400 --> 00:52:37.760 on how to. 933 00:52:37.800 --> 00:52:40.639 Do this well. There are a couple of factors involved. 934 00:52:40.719 --> 00:52:42.760 The first of all is the first thing is that 935 00:52:43.360 --> 00:52:47.000 the modern version of human history is frankly a croc. 936 00:52:47.719 --> 00:52:51.360 The idea is that human beings sat around in caves 937 00:52:52.239 --> 00:52:55.840 doing almost nothing for what about two million years? Yeah, 938 00:52:56.320 --> 00:52:58.800 and then five thousand years ago we suddenly shook ourselves, 939 00:52:58.800 --> 00:53:02.960 so wow, what are we thinking? And created civilization and 940 00:53:03.119 --> 00:53:05.440 went in five thousand years from mud huts to the 941 00:53:05.519 --> 00:53:08.960 moon without doing anything else before then for that whole 942 00:53:09.000 --> 00:53:12.800 two millions. Now, the tradition in you know, in the 943 00:53:12.840 --> 00:53:16.239 occult schools, is that that's not true, that there have 944 00:53:16.400 --> 00:53:21.400 been multiple major civilizations before hours, that ours is not 945 00:53:21.679 --> 00:53:25.840 ours is actually the fifth civilization to reach this level 946 00:53:25.880 --> 00:53:30.840 of advancement and then destroy itself, and that what was 947 00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.599 going on during those two million years with civilizations would rise, 948 00:53:35.800 --> 00:53:38.679 they would develop their own advanced technology it's not the 949 00:53:38.719 --> 00:53:42.360 same as ours, everyone has its own, and then run 950 00:53:42.440 --> 00:53:47.000 themselves into crisis and one way or another collapse, and 951 00:53:47.159 --> 00:53:51.280 then you'd have this long period of chaos and confusion 952 00:53:51.320 --> 00:53:54.679 and violence and difficulty, and out of which after thousands 953 00:53:54.719 --> 00:53:58.199 of years, new civilizations would be into our rise so 954 00:53:59.000 --> 00:54:02.559 on the one hand, you know, it wasn't just that 955 00:54:02.639 --> 00:54:04.760 we were sitting around doing nothing for two million years 956 00:54:04.800 --> 00:54:09.000 until some aliens or spirits came, and it's that What 957 00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:11.079 happened about five thousand years ago is that we finally 958 00:54:11.159 --> 00:54:15.119 finished clearing away the wreckage from the collapse of the 959 00:54:15.239 --> 00:54:19.199 last major global civilization. And since then we've been kind 960 00:54:19.239 --> 00:54:22.440 of picking up the pieces and rebuilding. And it's entirely 961 00:54:22.519 --> 00:54:25.840 possible that scraps of knowledge had survived from some of 962 00:54:25.880 --> 00:54:28.360 these older civilizations, and that was one of the things 963 00:54:28.639 --> 00:54:32.679 that helped drive these sudden bursts of ingenuity. Also, the 964 00:54:32.760 --> 00:54:35.679 thing is, human beings are very clever. If they had 965 00:54:35.880 --> 00:54:38.519 access to resources, they'll do remarkable things with it. We 966 00:54:38.639 --> 00:54:40.719 still don't know some of these things were made, some 967 00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:44.679 of these things in the ancient world. Yeah, you've try, 968 00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.440 you know, to talk to a contractor if you know one, 969 00:54:47.719 --> 00:54:51.639 and you say, okay, here are your specifications for the 970 00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:53.000 Great Pyramid? Can you build it? 971 00:54:53.639 --> 00:54:53.840 Yeah? 972 00:54:53.880 --> 00:54:57.280 Exactly, exactly, And yet the egyptience did. 973 00:54:58.199 --> 00:54:58.239 So. 974 00:54:58.400 --> 00:55:01.320 The thing is, human beings are very clever. Was there, 975 00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:04.239 you know, were there possible contracts with spiritual beings? Were there? 976 00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:08.440 I don't know's it's entirely possible. But I think also 977 00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:10.800 a lot of it was simply a matter of picking 978 00:55:10.880 --> 00:55:17.280 up the pieces from the last cycle of civilization and going, okay, 979 00:55:17.760 --> 00:55:18.679 let's try that camera. 980 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.559 Yeah, man, I love it. Such a such a great 981 00:55:22.639 --> 00:55:25.719 realistic look at some of this stuff. We're definitely gonna 982 00:55:25.760 --> 00:55:27.360 have to have you back on to talk about this. 983 00:55:27.719 --> 00:55:29.960 And yeah, I'd definitely love to get that book and 984 00:55:30.280 --> 00:55:32.360 discuss more about that because that's fascinating. 985 00:55:32.559 --> 00:55:34.400 I will I will talk to my publisher and see 986 00:55:34.400 --> 00:55:35.880 if I can get you a copy of the of 987 00:55:36.039 --> 00:55:39.639 the UFO Chronicles. It's it's selling quite well, so I 988 00:55:39.679 --> 00:55:41.280 think it will be I think it should be fairly 989 00:55:41.320 --> 00:55:41.880 easy to do that. 990 00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:42.880 That's great. 991 00:55:43.320 --> 00:55:46.079 Well, thank you so much again John for coming on. 992 00:55:46.519 --> 00:55:50.599 Fantastic information as usual, and uh, for those that would 993 00:55:50.679 --> 00:55:52.480 like to find out more about your books, the best 994 00:55:52.519 --> 00:55:55.719 way is Amazon and your website. What was your website again. 995 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:58.840 Said is Ecosphia, not at E C O S O 996 00:55:58.960 --> 00:56:03.840 P H I A dot. I also have a store 997 00:56:03.880 --> 00:56:07.400 on bookshop dot org that if you go to bookshop 998 00:56:07.440 --> 00:56:09.719 dot org and my name, you will find my bookstore. 999 00:56:10.599 --> 00:56:13.599 Excellent, excellent. Well, thank you so much again, John. We'll 1000 00:56:13.599 --> 00:56:15.440 definitely be talking to you again in the future. 1001 00:56:15.719 --> 00:56:17.119 Yeah, I look forward to it. 1002 00:56:17.440 --> 00:56:20.159 Tonight, I want to welcome Leslie Michelle Clark. She is 1003 00:56:20.199 --> 00:56:24.920 a Toronto based certified clinical hypnotherapist who specializes in a 1004 00:56:25.039 --> 00:56:29.000 number of modalities, including working with individuals who feel they 1005 00:56:29.079 --> 00:56:33.440 have had experiences with extraterrestrial beings. She is also a 1006 00:56:33.719 --> 00:56:39.960 busy arts writer, contributing regularly to a variety of publications. Leslie, welcome. 1007 00:56:40.000 --> 00:56:40.760 How are you doing tonight? 1008 00:56:41.719 --> 00:56:44.360 Oh, Chris, I am so pleased to be here, and 1009 00:56:44.599 --> 00:56:47.400 I just want to say a big hello to all 1010 00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:50.960 the wonderful people not only in your hood in Colorado, 1011 00:56:51.079 --> 00:56:55.480 but certainly throughout your huge fan base. I'm very honored 1012 00:56:55.519 --> 00:56:58.440 to be here and so pleased to talk about you know, 1013 00:56:58.559 --> 00:57:00.559 whatever you want to talk about. 1014 00:57:00.840 --> 00:57:02.679 Oh yeah, we're gonna have some fun. We're going to 1015 00:57:02.719 --> 00:57:05.800 talk about lots of stuff. And I enjoy, really enjoy 1016 00:57:05.880 --> 00:57:09.159 talking with guests like yourself, because it helps the audience 1017 00:57:09.320 --> 00:57:13.480 not only get a bigger picture of what people experience 1018 00:57:13.599 --> 00:57:19.000 during these events paranormal contact subductions, but not only that, 1019 00:57:19.119 --> 00:57:22.559 but possibly get some kind of understanding of why this 1020 00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:26.559 is occurring and who these beings may be. Now this 1021 00:57:26.760 --> 00:57:29.280 is your first time on the show. I'd love to 1022 00:57:29.360 --> 00:57:32.000 hear about what got you started down your path. What 1023 00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:36.519 was it that got you going into working with contact ease? 1024 00:57:37.519 --> 00:57:43.119 Oh, very interesting. Well, I have always been fascinated with euthology, 1025 00:57:43.239 --> 00:57:46.480 you know, really my entire life, which goes back to 1026 00:57:46.559 --> 00:57:50.679 when dinosaurs roamed the earth, so before the last ice age, 1027 00:57:50.760 --> 00:57:56.000 I was actually interested in ufology. So, but I did 1028 00:57:56.199 --> 00:58:01.960 have a very profound experience of my own when I 1029 00:58:02.039 --> 00:58:06.440 was about seventeen years old and I was away. I 1030 00:58:06.599 --> 00:58:10.119 was working in Summerstock Theater in not very far from 1031 00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:13.000 where you are now, the Black Hills of South Dakota, 1032 00:58:13.039 --> 00:58:18.000 the Black Hills Playhouse Rushmore State Park where the Presidential 1033 00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:22.480 heads are. That's where I was and I had and 1034 00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:25.360 of course the company members came from all over the 1035 00:58:25.519 --> 00:58:30.079 United States. And one of my roommates, I can't really 1036 00:58:30.199 --> 00:58:35.440 give her name because she's still that might be compromising, 1037 00:58:35.599 --> 00:58:38.199 But anyway, I had a wonderful roommate who was a 1038 00:58:38.400 --> 00:58:44.079 very busy entertainer singer in particularly the Vegas casinos. She 1039 00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:49.039 had a whole professional life doing that. But she shared 1040 00:58:49.159 --> 00:58:54.239 with me that she also worked for the United States 1041 00:58:54.360 --> 00:59:00.159 government as a kind of a translator or communicate or 1042 00:59:00.360 --> 00:59:04.679 if you will, with et beings, and that they would, 1043 00:59:05.119 --> 00:59:08.639 you know, she'd show up at the Las Vegas Airport 1044 00:59:08.760 --> 00:59:11.159 and she'd get into one of those unmarked planes and 1045 00:59:11.199 --> 00:59:14.679 they'd head her out to you know, Dulcie Base or where, 1046 00:59:14.880 --> 00:59:19.000 you know, wherever wherever the action was. And basically she 1047 00:59:19.400 --> 00:59:24.039 and various other sensitives would sit in rooms and communicate 1048 00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:31.239 with this a particular shall I say it breeds sound 1049 00:59:31.320 --> 00:59:34.360 so awful, but a particular type of gray that was 1050 00:59:34.519 --> 00:59:39.360 at the time really interacting heavenly, heavily with the government 1051 00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:42.599 of the United States. So when she came to the 1052 00:59:43.639 --> 00:59:47.199 to work at this summerstock theater, she said, the reason 1053 00:59:47.280 --> 00:59:49.000 she was doing it is she wanted to get away. 1054 00:59:49.119 --> 00:59:53.239 She wanted to quit and just no longer work for 1055 00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:56.519 the government. She was exhausted, she couldn't handle it. And 1056 00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:02.039 that summer, every time that I, you know, went into 1057 01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.719 the little town of Custer with her or any place, 1058 01:00:06.719 --> 01:00:12.440 we were followed or monitored by visible craft. So I'm 1059 01:00:12.519 --> 01:00:15.480 talking about sightings, you know, a couple times a week 1060 01:00:16.320 --> 01:00:23.480 of you know, very traditional types of cylindrical you know, 1061 01:00:23.679 --> 01:00:26.719 craft that were lit with different colors. So this went on, 1062 01:00:27.639 --> 01:00:34.320 and one one afternoon, I happened to be outside of 1063 01:00:34.400 --> 01:00:36.719 our little dorm and I was doing something else, but 1064 01:00:36.840 --> 01:00:44.320 I saw a really odd sort of late model Buick, 1065 01:00:44.719 --> 01:00:49.440 old fashioned town car. Even then it was anachronistic. It 1066 01:00:49.559 --> 01:00:52.920 looked like this was this would have been this is 1067 01:00:53.000 --> 01:00:57.880 nineteen seventy three, so the vehicle looked like nineteen fifty 1068 01:00:57.960 --> 01:01:01.960 eight or something. And it it drove into the theater 1069 01:01:02.119 --> 01:01:05.119 complex and pulled up right in front of our dorm. 1070 01:01:05.239 --> 01:01:07.400 And I knew that my friend was in, but I 1071 01:01:07.639 --> 01:01:13.360 was not. So I saw two beings get out of 1072 01:01:13.480 --> 01:01:18.199 this classic men in black car, and I have to 1073 01:01:18.480 --> 01:01:21.639 tell you, I have to tell you, Chris, that they 1074 01:01:22.519 --> 01:01:26.840 they really were very strange looking. It's subtle, but the 1075 01:01:26.960 --> 01:01:30.360 skin itself looked almost like it was plastic, you know. 1076 01:01:30.440 --> 01:01:33.000 They had a very kind of artificial look to them. 1077 01:01:33.320 --> 01:01:36.199 And they were wearing the hats, the classic Fordoras like 1078 01:01:36.320 --> 01:01:39.639 it was ridiculous, almost ridiculous. But the other thing that 1079 01:01:39.719 --> 01:01:43.199 I remember distinctly is on their feet they were wearing 1080 01:01:43.400 --> 01:01:49.639 what looked like weighted, like orthopedic shoes. For some reason, 1081 01:01:49.800 --> 01:01:53.679 these big heavy like it looked like they were weighted. 1082 01:01:53.800 --> 01:01:57.400 And their little pants the cuffs were up quite high, 1083 01:01:58.079 --> 01:02:01.039 like high waters. So the whole thing was very was 1084 01:02:01.320 --> 01:02:05.159 very strange. They couldn't have fit in really anywhere, you know, 1085 01:02:05.360 --> 01:02:09.119 so accept a cinema noir movie in nineteen fifty six. 1086 01:02:09.559 --> 01:02:13.000 So I saw them go into my friend's quarters. She 1087 01:02:13.119 --> 01:02:16.320 had her own entrance, and about a half an hour 1088 01:02:16.400 --> 01:02:18.320 went by, and I was just about to go in 1089 01:02:19.119 --> 01:02:22.320 and see if she was okay, like interrupt like whatever 1090 01:02:22.519 --> 01:02:25.679 was going on, when these you know, these beings came 1091 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:27.960 out and they left, and you know, I went right 1092 01:02:28.039 --> 01:02:31.039 over and I said, what in God's name what was that? 1093 01:02:31.880 --> 01:02:35.519 And she said, well, these are government government representatives and 1094 01:02:35.559 --> 01:02:40.119 they're trying to convince me to continue to work in 1095 01:02:40.559 --> 01:02:45.199 the communification program. And I basically told them to f off. 1096 01:02:46.400 --> 01:02:51.880 Woh so uh. And then then about two weeks after that, 1097 01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:59.599 I was sleeping very soundly, and these were very rustic 1098 01:02:59.639 --> 01:03:03.440 a comes. It was an old The whole theater complex 1099 01:03:03.599 --> 01:03:06.760 was an old And you have these in the States 1100 01:03:07.360 --> 01:03:10.360 CCC work camps. They were kind of like a federal 1101 01:03:11.119 --> 01:03:14.400 work program that FDR started during World War two to 1102 01:03:14.480 --> 01:03:17.119 give men work to pull everybody out of the depression. 1103 01:03:17.639 --> 01:03:20.159 They were like logging camps kind of because that was 1104 01:03:20.199 --> 01:03:22.760 the kind of work that was being done. So these 1105 01:03:22.800 --> 01:03:25.480 were rustic accommodations. And it was about three in the 1106 01:03:25.559 --> 01:03:31.159 morning and I woke up just for no reason, sat 1107 01:03:31.280 --> 01:03:37.239 up in bed, and pouring in through the outside was 1108 01:03:37.320 --> 01:03:43.079 a blue light, I mean just blue, and it felt 1109 01:03:43.079 --> 01:03:48.320 as if the atmosphere was even thick. The atmosphere felt odd, 1110 01:03:48.719 --> 01:03:52.440 and I remember that I did hear a very low 1111 01:03:53.079 --> 01:03:55.559 not an engine sound, but maybe a low like a 1112 01:03:55.719 --> 01:03:59.360 tens you know, tense cycle, you know, a very low 1113 01:03:59.719 --> 01:04:04.320 vibee if you will. I was aware of. And that's 1114 01:04:04.480 --> 01:04:10.880 all I remember until the next morning at dawn, I 1115 01:04:11.039 --> 01:04:16.000 woke up and I was in terrible pain. I felt 1116 01:04:16.079 --> 01:04:18.440 like I had to urinate, but I wasn't sure. So 1117 01:04:19.239 --> 01:04:22.639 I got up. And this was so rustic that we 1118 01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:25.599 had like a bathhouse where all the accommodations were up 1119 01:04:25.639 --> 01:04:28.599 a small hill, and I was walking towards the bathhouse 1120 01:04:28.639 --> 01:04:31.079 and I noticed that I had a stream of blood 1121 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:35.320 coming down my leg. Now this was not I'm sure 1122 01:04:35.360 --> 01:04:37.760 I can be open with your audience and say this 1123 01:04:37.920 --> 01:04:42.440 was not a normal like menstrual situation. This was completely 1124 01:04:43.800 --> 01:04:47.400 odd and out of you know, not related to anything 1125 01:04:47.440 --> 01:04:49.599 that would be normal, and I was in terrible pain. 1126 01:04:49.960 --> 01:04:53.360 I urinated, I was in terrible pain. Eventually I did 1127 01:04:53.440 --> 01:04:55.400 go to a doctor maybe the next day, and he 1128 01:04:55.480 --> 01:04:58.639 said there was some kind of bacterial infection, and you know, 1129 01:04:58.800 --> 01:05:06.280 but that was my So that experience in itself completely 1130 01:05:07.400 --> 01:05:11.880 for me validated not only the present, the extra extraterrestrial 1131 01:05:12.039 --> 01:05:15.480 presence among us and on Earth and involved in our stuff, 1132 01:05:16.119 --> 01:05:21.440 but the very real thing that may have happened to me. 1133 01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:26.960 I don't know if some genetic material was harvested. I 1134 01:05:27.119 --> 01:05:32.800 have never with any of my colleagues gone back to 1135 01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:37.480 re experience that I may do that at some point, 1136 01:05:37.559 --> 01:05:39.920 but I have a pretty good idea of what happened, 1137 01:05:40.280 --> 01:05:42.199 you know. I think I have enough of an idea 1138 01:05:42.280 --> 01:05:44.039 to maybe not need to go back into it in 1139 01:05:44.079 --> 01:05:46.039 any great depth right now. 1140 01:05:46.199 --> 01:05:49.440 Since then, have you had any other experiences that may 1141 01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:54.199 have possibly been connected, or any other profound experiences. 1142 01:05:54.679 --> 01:06:00.199 Boy, I sure wish that I had. I'm of the 1143 01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:04.000 belief system that there are no isolated experiences. That people 1144 01:06:04.039 --> 01:06:09.480 who have experiences, whether they're dramatic or minimal, generally, when 1145 01:06:09.519 --> 01:06:11.840 I do regress them, you know, we find out that 1146 01:06:11.920 --> 01:06:15.599 they have been been lifelong experiences. Usually since the age 1147 01:06:15.800 --> 01:06:21.159 of three. But in my conscious lifetime, the only the 1148 01:06:21.320 --> 01:06:24.559 only other incident that I can that I can recall 1149 01:06:25.400 --> 01:06:29.800 was not necessarily an extraterrestrial one. But but perhaps you 1150 01:06:29.880 --> 01:06:32.599 can tell me what you think I was. I was 1151 01:06:32.760 --> 01:06:38.280 driving from Los Angeles up to Reado, Nevada, and to 1152 01:06:38.440 --> 01:06:43.880 do that you must pass really by Mount Shasta. I mean, 1153 01:06:43.920 --> 01:06:48.880 it's just right there off the Highway five. And my 1154 01:06:49.760 --> 01:06:54.280 partner that I was driving with, you know, I warned, 1155 01:06:54.679 --> 01:06:56.639 I said, look, we're going up hi, we're growing up 1156 01:06:56.679 --> 01:06:59.800 to you know, six thousand pet whatever it is. Makes 1157 01:06:59.800 --> 01:07:03.639 sure you have enough gas because when you your listeners 1158 01:07:03.719 --> 01:07:06.880 may not know this, but when you're driving in elevated areas, 1159 01:07:06.960 --> 01:07:10.639 you use gas at a much higher rate. Yeah, so 1160 01:07:10.719 --> 01:07:12.400 that's a really thing. So I said, get the gas. Well, 1161 01:07:12.440 --> 01:07:15.960 of course he didn't get the gas. So we're up there, 1162 01:07:16.599 --> 01:07:20.280 right at you know, right at Mount Shasta in the 1163 01:07:20.360 --> 01:07:22.760 middle of the night, and it's a full moon you 1164 01:07:22.840 --> 01:07:27.280 can like see everything, and we are completely out of gas. 1165 01:07:28.199 --> 01:07:32.159 So so he says, you know, okay, I'm going I'm 1166 01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:35.000 just gonna go out. I'm going to try to walk somewhere. 1167 01:07:35.159 --> 01:07:36.920 And this is the middle of the bloody night. So 1168 01:07:37.039 --> 01:07:41.480 he gets out and within thirty seconds a car picks 1169 01:07:41.559 --> 01:07:45.119 him up and he takes off and that's it. I mean, 1170 01:07:45.199 --> 01:07:47.400 I don't know if he's ever coming back. I'm sitting 1171 01:07:47.519 --> 01:07:51.639 there in the car in the moonlight Mount Shasta. Now. 1172 01:07:52.119 --> 01:07:57.400 The next thing that I have conscious memory of is 1173 01:07:57.639 --> 01:08:01.880 him coming back to the car with a gas can. 1174 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:05.320 And I had my I think I had my shirt. 1175 01:08:05.519 --> 01:08:07.400 My shirt was on backwards or there was some kind 1176 01:08:07.400 --> 01:08:10.920 of weird thing about how I was dressed, And for me, 1177 01:08:11.440 --> 01:08:13.599 it felt like ten minutes. I said, how in God's 1178 01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:16.439 name did you get back here into And it had 1179 01:08:16.520 --> 01:08:19.439 been it had been hours, it had been a couple 1180 01:08:19.520 --> 01:08:25.039 of hours. And so I do have an actual missing 1181 01:08:25.279 --> 01:08:31.319 time thing which happened at Mount Shasta. Now, whether that's 1182 01:08:31.439 --> 01:08:34.840 related to, you know, the evolved beings that are rumored 1183 01:08:34.880 --> 01:08:38.359 to live in that area, I don't know whether it 1184 01:08:38.479 --> 01:08:40.920 was an ET thing, but the fact that my shirt 1185 01:08:41.079 --> 01:08:44.159 was on backwards is a little bit disturbing. You know. 1186 01:08:44.800 --> 01:08:49.640 Yeah, I've heard of all kinds of strange phenomenon occurring 1187 01:08:50.039 --> 01:08:54.000 near around Mount Shasta, not just necessarily you know, UFO 1188 01:08:54.119 --> 01:08:57.680 or extra terrestrial, but you know, all all kinds of paranormal, 1189 01:08:57.760 --> 01:09:00.680 but I also think that lots of paranoria mole activity, 1190 01:09:00.760 --> 01:09:04.840 if not all, is somehow connected in some ways to ufology. 1191 01:09:05.119 --> 01:09:08.600 It's really encouraging that a lot of researchers are coming 1192 01:09:08.680 --> 01:09:11.800 together in these fields because there used to be well, 1193 01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:13.760 there still is a lot of infighting, but it seems 1194 01:09:13.840 --> 01:09:16.840 like there used to be a lot more infighting between 1195 01:09:16.880 --> 01:09:20.199 the fields of paranormal and ufology, and it looks like 1196 01:09:20.359 --> 01:09:24.319 these fields are somewhat starting to collaborate a little bit more, 1197 01:09:24.359 --> 01:09:27.159 which is encouraging because I think it's all connected in 1198 01:09:27.279 --> 01:09:27.680 some way. 1199 01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:31.079 I couldn't agree with you more, Chris, and you know, 1200 01:09:31.439 --> 01:09:33.840 as you know, or you made I know. I work 1201 01:09:33.920 --> 01:09:38.520 with Mouffon rather heavily. I am part of Kathleen Martin's 1202 01:09:38.560 --> 01:09:44.760 experience or research program, so they do refer many experiences 1203 01:09:44.840 --> 01:09:49.000 to me who might like to undergo some regressive hippotherapy. 1204 01:09:49.159 --> 01:09:56.640 But I completely believe that all of this experience is connected. 1205 01:09:57.000 --> 01:09:59.840 And even you know, I mean this sounds a little 1206 01:10:00.079 --> 01:10:02.119 are out. You can stop me if it's too far out, 1207 01:10:02.159 --> 01:10:05.479 But as you can imagine, as a hypnotherapist, I also 1208 01:10:05.640 --> 01:10:10.079 do past life regressions, inter life regressions, some of these 1209 01:10:10.159 --> 01:10:14.119 other metaphysical processes. And I can tell you that when 1210 01:10:14.159 --> 01:10:18.000 we get individuals into these realms of the afterlife, you know, 1211 01:10:18.119 --> 01:10:21.520 these rarefied realms that are wonderful where we're all together 1212 01:10:21.760 --> 01:10:25.800 and thought informs matter, and there are counsels that help 1213 01:10:25.880 --> 01:10:30.680 us to determine our future. People are seeing beings that 1214 01:10:30.840 --> 01:10:35.960 are not exclusively human. So I believe that in our 1215 01:10:36.199 --> 01:10:42.760 soul group, if you will, it's not just the Terrans, 1216 01:10:42.920 --> 01:10:45.640 the earthly humans, that we also are in a soul 1217 01:10:45.720 --> 01:10:49.640 group with many other I won't say exactly alike, but 1218 01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:54.880 similarly constructed beings, you know, the Lerens, the Pleiadians, these 1219 01:10:55.159 --> 01:10:59.760 these beings seem to be very involved and totally included 1220 01:11:00.399 --> 01:11:05.039 in our so called afterlife. And in keeping with that, 1221 01:11:05.359 --> 01:11:10.560 you know, sometimes in past life regressions, individuals will very 1222 01:11:10.680 --> 01:11:17.399 easily recall lifetime spent on other planets. Now, usually it's 1223 01:11:17.479 --> 01:11:20.279 nothing too far out. I mean, usually it's your basic 1224 01:11:20.479 --> 01:11:24.920 kind of homined form, your you know, two legs, two arms, 1225 01:11:25.039 --> 01:11:31.199 head torso. Anything beyond that may not be that helpful 1226 01:11:31.279 --> 01:11:35.159 to our human experience. You know, if we enter, like 1227 01:11:35.319 --> 01:11:38.880 into beings that are exclusively aquatic or you know, I'm 1228 01:11:38.920 --> 01:11:45.239 not sure how that impacts on our karmic path as 1229 01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:48.000 it were, but definitely we are in a soul group 1230 01:11:48.079 --> 01:11:52.399 with a lot of different beings that our cousins closely 1231 01:11:52.520 --> 01:11:54.920 related or not so closely related. 1232 01:11:57.159 --> 01:12:01.319 Spy, excuse me, my external Mike was off there, Sorry 1233 01:12:01.359 --> 01:12:04.800 about that. When it comes to your hypnotherapy, when did 1234 01:12:04.840 --> 01:12:07.800 you first starting making the connections that this could help 1235 01:12:07.880 --> 01:12:10.760 out people who've had, you know, these experiences that they 1236 01:12:10.800 --> 01:12:11.600 don't understand. 1237 01:12:12.760 --> 01:12:16.319 Well, that's such a wonderful question, Chris. Now, I've been 1238 01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:19.560 practicing hypnotherapy for quite some time. I'm going to say 1239 01:12:19.560 --> 01:12:23.640 about fifteen years, and before that, although I had a 1240 01:12:23.800 --> 01:12:27.920 parallel career in the entertainment business, I also, in the 1241 01:12:28.039 --> 01:12:31.119 United States, am a psychiatric technician too, and I have 1242 01:12:31.319 --> 01:12:34.800 worked with very mentally ill people. I've worked in a 1243 01:12:34.840 --> 01:12:38.359 lot of freehabs and such, so I've always mental health 1244 01:12:38.399 --> 01:12:44.000 has always been a big part of my rest, you know, 1245 01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:51.680 my reason for doing things. And I think that what 1246 01:12:51.920 --> 01:12:57.479 happened initially is in the practice I first joined after 1247 01:12:57.680 --> 01:13:03.680 graduating from the hypnotherapy school that I attended. No one 1248 01:13:04.079 --> 01:13:08.560 wanted to deal with people who felt they were experiencers, 1249 01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:11.960 and this was a pretty straight ahead clinic, but maybe 1250 01:13:12.039 --> 01:13:16.840 about once a month we'd get someone who believed that 1251 01:13:16.960 --> 01:13:18.960 they had this experience. So the whole thing was just 1252 01:13:19.039 --> 01:13:25.079 to send those people to me, and somehow that turned 1253 01:13:25.119 --> 01:13:34.720 in to a really complete focus for my work, because 1254 01:13:34.800 --> 01:13:36.880 of course I do work for clinics, but I work 1255 01:13:36.920 --> 01:13:39.840 on my own and just through word of vout, people 1256 01:13:39.960 --> 01:13:43.760 began seeing me. And I'm kind of of the belief 1257 01:13:43.880 --> 01:13:48.159 system that the people that need to find me find me. 1258 01:13:49.000 --> 01:13:51.880 And in the beginning it probably wasn't that easy to 1259 01:13:52.000 --> 01:13:57.960 find me, but people did and that began to expand exponentially, 1260 01:13:58.680 --> 01:14:02.399 and certainly with the advent of being able to talk 1261 01:14:02.479 --> 01:14:06.640 on some wonderful forums and shows like yours, the word 1262 01:14:06.680 --> 01:14:08.920 has gotten out there that I can, you know, help 1263 01:14:09.000 --> 01:14:12.520 people with this issue. And then of course working through 1264 01:14:12.600 --> 01:14:17.439 moufon has been a tremendous learning experience because those those 1265 01:14:17.520 --> 01:14:20.439 individuals that come through mofon are properly vetted. You know 1266 01:14:20.600 --> 01:14:22.760 that anyone that comes to me is not going to 1267 01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:26.319 be suffering with a mental health issue that they've already 1268 01:14:26.600 --> 01:14:29.920 you know, completed a certain amount of investigation, and my 1269 01:14:30.119 --> 01:14:31.800 thing is just an addendum to that. 1270 01:14:32.640 --> 01:14:34.680 I was actually just going to ask you about that. 1271 01:14:35.640 --> 01:14:37.279 I was going to ask you how you can tell 1272 01:14:37.319 --> 01:14:39.279 if someone comes to you and they say, you know, 1273 01:14:39.279 --> 01:14:42.359 if they've had these contact experiences, they're interested in getting 1274 01:14:42.520 --> 01:14:45.960 hypnotherapy or aggression or something like that, How can you 1275 01:14:46.199 --> 01:14:49.079 tell before you even do anything, if these are genuine 1276 01:14:49.119 --> 01:14:51.840 experiences or if they may be suffering for some kind 1277 01:14:51.840 --> 01:14:52.800 of mental illness. 1278 01:14:53.479 --> 01:14:57.279 Well, that's that also is a wonderful question, Chris. Now, 1279 01:14:57.439 --> 01:15:00.920 before anybody comes to see me in person or even 1280 01:15:01.000 --> 01:15:04.399 on zoom, you know, in the COVID times, I have 1281 01:15:04.520 --> 01:15:08.439 a very long intake with that person. I talk to 1282 01:15:08.520 --> 01:15:12.399 them on the phone for a good long time. I 1283 01:15:12.520 --> 01:15:16.079 have them tell me about their experiences and about their history, 1284 01:15:16.880 --> 01:15:21.279 and nine times out of ten after that I have 1285 01:15:21.399 --> 01:15:25.239 a very good idea about what is going on. And 1286 01:15:25.560 --> 01:15:31.279 certainly not all people who believe they've had ET encounters 1287 01:15:31.880 --> 01:15:36.800 have had ET encounters. They could have had a dissociative 1288 01:15:37.800 --> 01:15:45.439 psychotic break. So my whole thing is I have to 1289 01:15:45.600 --> 01:15:49.680 base my judgment on that intake that I do and 1290 01:15:49.800 --> 01:15:52.640 the questions that I ask, and how they feel and 1291 01:15:52.760 --> 01:15:55.960 how I feel. Now, if I feel that somebody is 1292 01:15:56.079 --> 01:16:01.279 really presenting with a real dissociative disorder or mental health issues. 1293 01:16:01.640 --> 01:16:04.720 I don't just leave them out there to dangle. I 1294 01:16:04.880 --> 01:16:09.680 have colleagues who are psychotherapists, psychologists and psychiatrists who I 1295 01:16:09.960 --> 01:16:13.520 can recommend to these individuals, who are open to the 1296 01:16:13.720 --> 01:16:18.479 idea and therefore will not ridicule these people and will 1297 01:16:18.600 --> 01:16:24.399 accept them and treat them accordingly. And sometimes people will 1298 01:16:24.479 --> 01:16:29.520 reveal to me a long, sad mental health history. You 1299 01:16:29.600 --> 01:16:34.880 know of hospitalizations and antipsychotic meds, and you know that 1300 01:16:36.439 --> 01:16:41.319 that's not very common. But I would say about one 1301 01:16:41.520 --> 01:16:46.800 person in ten who contacts me is really suffering from 1302 01:16:46.880 --> 01:16:49.079 a dissociative mental health disorder. 1303 01:16:50.159 --> 01:16:53.399 Now, have you had cases where maybe it's even a 1304 01:16:53.479 --> 01:16:57.399 little bit of both. Maybe they do have some mental disorders, 1305 01:16:57.840 --> 01:17:01.720 but they are also having the experiences. It may be hard, 1306 01:17:01.760 --> 01:17:03.720 you know, it seems like it'd be extremely hard to 1307 01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:05.159 tell at times. 1308 01:17:05.920 --> 01:17:11.520 Yeah, I think you're right. I think that does happen. 1309 01:17:11.640 --> 01:17:16.079 But I also think that most of the time are 1310 01:17:16.199 --> 01:17:20.960 e t you know, friends or geno relatives, whatever you 1311 01:17:21.000 --> 01:17:23.640 want to call them. I think that one of the 1312 01:17:23.760 --> 01:17:27.279 main reasons, if not the main reason, that they are 1313 01:17:27.439 --> 01:17:33.800 interested in specific people is for telepathic ability. Now, wouldn't 1314 01:17:33.880 --> 01:17:37.000 make sense if you were in involved species who use 1315 01:17:37.119 --> 01:17:41.880 language only occasionally, that in order to communicate with a species, 1316 01:17:42.680 --> 01:17:46.199 you would find the members of that species that had 1317 01:17:46.279 --> 01:17:53.439 the most developed ability or the most innate genetically transferredability 1318 01:17:53.600 --> 01:17:58.119 to communicate telepathically. This is Chris, This is kind of 1319 01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:01.960 my thinking now because as I have really spent a 1320 01:18:02.039 --> 01:18:07.399 lot of time ruminating on this, like what is the thing, 1321 01:18:08.159 --> 01:18:12.760 what is attractive? Why are these people having experiences? Because 1322 01:18:13.199 --> 01:18:18.279 it really cuts across all kinds of lines, I mean 1323 01:18:19.880 --> 01:18:28.159 of societal lines, socioeconomic lines, racial lines, religious lines, people 1324 01:18:28.239 --> 01:18:32.680 of all sorts all over the world from and a 1325 01:18:32.920 --> 01:18:36.960 very different levels of intelligence. I'm not talking about just 1326 01:18:37.239 --> 01:18:42.199 high IQ people, MENSA people here. It's a wide swath. 1327 01:18:43.000 --> 01:18:47.279 But I think that the commonality is that many of 1328 01:18:47.319 --> 01:18:52.479 the benevolent ets have really one message, and that's fix 1329 01:18:52.560 --> 01:18:58.039 your planet, clean up your mess, get your violence under control, 1330 01:18:59.239 --> 01:19:03.640 be loving and benevolent, and you know, be ready to 1331 01:19:03.880 --> 01:19:08.920 join the Association of civilized planets. I mean, I think 1332 01:19:09.079 --> 01:19:13.560 right now we're just a big frustration if there are 1333 01:19:13.760 --> 01:19:17.279 civilized beings that are if there is, and I kind 1334 01:19:17.319 --> 01:19:19.920 of think there is a sort of a gene Roddenberry, 1335 01:19:20.640 --> 01:19:25.359 United Federation of Planets. I think that these evolved beings 1336 01:19:25.520 --> 01:19:31.159 are probably extremely frustrated with us. I mean, no impulse control. 1337 01:19:31.600 --> 01:19:34.680 And look at the diversity of people that we have 1338 01:19:36.199 --> 01:19:39.640 on this planet. I mean, on the low end, we've 1339 01:19:39.720 --> 01:19:43.399 got like Charles Manson and Donald Trump, and then we've 1340 01:19:43.479 --> 01:19:47.920 got you know, the Dalai Lama, and you know, the 1341 01:19:48.039 --> 01:19:50.560 various profits of the ages. I mean, we have a 1342 01:19:50.720 --> 01:19:56.760 big swath of diversity of the types of beings. And 1343 01:19:56.920 --> 01:20:00.359 I've heard our life on Earth. I've heard our lions 1344 01:20:00.399 --> 01:20:04.880 on Earth being described more than once by people and hypnosis, 1345 01:20:05.239 --> 01:20:08.680 you know, speaking to their the beings they interact with. 1346 01:20:08.760 --> 01:20:14.399 I've heard this described as the Grand Experiment, and it's 1347 01:20:14.439 --> 01:20:18.560 a we are There's a lot of interest on us 1348 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:24.319 right now. We are a hybrid race. I believe that 1349 01:20:24.439 --> 01:20:29.960 we are carrying genetic material from uh on Anaki, possibly Reptilian. 1350 01:20:30.119 --> 01:20:33.880 You know, we we are we are, we are the hybrids. 1351 01:20:34.119 --> 01:20:38.239 We are the ets in a sense, and how we 1352 01:20:39.279 --> 01:20:42.439 evolve and how we learn to care for each other 1353 01:20:43.800 --> 01:20:48.399 is everything I think we are. We were going to be. 1354 01:20:48.600 --> 01:20:52.319 We're savages until we learn how to care for each other. 1355 01:20:53.600 --> 01:20:53.960 Period. 1356 01:20:54.880 --> 01:21:00.800 Yeah, one of the messages that seems consistent with contactees 1357 01:21:00.840 --> 01:21:04.640 that have had positive experiences is what you just said. 1358 01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:08.840 You know that we are, you know, a very special 1359 01:21:08.960 --> 01:21:11.800 grand experiment and we need to take care of the 1360 01:21:11.920 --> 01:21:17.439 planet ourselves and basically warning us about, you know, our 1361 01:21:17.479 --> 01:21:21.039 own self destruction things of that nature. And I want 1362 01:21:21.079 --> 01:21:25.199 to get more into some of people's experiences and try 1363 01:21:25.279 --> 01:21:29.319 to understand what occurs. But first I want to address 1364 01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:34.520 what happens with people who are taken in their sleep 1365 01:21:35.159 --> 01:21:38.319 or their consciousness is taken. It's not a physical experience. 1366 01:21:39.119 --> 01:21:41.119 They will still be in their bed. It doesn't look 1367 01:21:41.199 --> 01:21:44.039 like anything is occurring. I've had a contact ee who 1368 01:21:44.119 --> 01:21:47.960 records herself during these experiences and she's just laying there 1369 01:21:48.159 --> 01:21:51.159 and nothing's happening. But she says that she's being taken 1370 01:21:51.239 --> 01:21:54.039 on a ship and all this is occurring. They're doing 1371 01:21:54.159 --> 01:21:57.079 experiments and all this is happening. I'd like to get 1372 01:21:57.119 --> 01:21:58.840 your take on what is occurring here. 1373 01:22:00.199 --> 01:22:03.039 Well. I think we have to sort of open our 1374 01:22:03.119 --> 01:22:06.600 minds a bit to the nature of reality. I think 1375 01:22:06.720 --> 01:22:14.800 that we live interdimensional, multi dimensional existences, and what seems 1376 01:22:14.880 --> 01:22:18.159 to happen in all the cases, and the research that 1377 01:22:18.239 --> 01:22:23.760 I've done is if after a certain point of an abductee, 1378 01:22:23.960 --> 01:22:31.359 usually around midlife, really has primarily, as you just expressed, 1379 01:22:31.880 --> 01:22:36.600 experiences where they sort of bilocate or they leave their 1380 01:22:36.680 --> 01:22:39.439 physical body and they're operating in a kind of a 1381 01:22:39.520 --> 01:22:46.720 psychophysical body. This seems to be the preferred way of 1382 01:22:47.039 --> 01:22:54.680 convening or communicating for many many species that we simply 1383 01:22:55.640 --> 01:22:58.720 don't go in our dense physical bodies, but we project 1384 01:22:59.359 --> 01:23:04.920 our satiric body to a specific location. And many of 1385 01:23:05.000 --> 01:23:07.560 the people that I work with, whether or not they've 1386 01:23:07.600 --> 01:23:11.359 been involved in the twenty and back secret space program, 1387 01:23:11.479 --> 01:23:14.920 and I do have a number of wonderful people with 1388 01:23:15.079 --> 01:23:18.600 that experience. But whether or not that has happened, the 1389 01:23:18.800 --> 01:23:25.239 mature experiencers seem to be involved in collaborative work with 1390 01:23:25.479 --> 01:23:29.560 a variety of extraterrestrial beings. In other words, when they 1391 01:23:29.680 --> 01:23:34.039 leave their body, they generally go to some type of 1392 01:23:34.199 --> 01:23:39.319 craft or sometimes a base. There are underground bases, you know, everywhere, 1393 01:23:39.840 --> 01:23:43.520 so a craft or a base, and they are engaging 1394 01:23:44.239 --> 01:23:48.920 in some way with both other you know, humans who 1395 01:23:49.039 --> 01:23:52.640 are also you know, astro projecting, but also a variety 1396 01:23:52.720 --> 01:23:56.199 of ets, and they seem to be doing some kind 1397 01:23:56.279 --> 01:24:03.680 of good work together somehow now also some of the 1398 01:24:03.800 --> 01:24:07.439 people that well, I should say pretty much exclusively the 1399 01:24:07.560 --> 01:24:11.239 people that I have regressed who are lifelong experiencers. When 1400 01:24:11.239 --> 01:24:15.520 they're taken as children, it's a much more physical experience. 1401 01:24:16.119 --> 01:24:18.439 In other words, they're you know, they're taken out of 1402 01:24:18.439 --> 01:24:21.840 their beds, they're pulled through the wall, the eties get 1403 01:24:21.880 --> 01:24:25.000 them to walk outside, they get they go through the roof. 1404 01:24:25.479 --> 01:24:31.359 But it's very, very physical, and somehow the babies or 1405 01:24:31.399 --> 01:24:35.600 the children are returned before anybody knows anything is happening. Now, 1406 01:24:35.880 --> 01:24:38.640 there's a great deal of messing about with with what 1407 01:24:38.800 --> 01:24:42.680 we consider linear time. You know, we there is no 1408 01:24:42.880 --> 01:24:46.319 such thing as linear time. Linear time is an agreement 1409 01:24:46.960 --> 01:24:51.560 that we have made on this terrain, you know, orb, 1410 01:24:52.079 --> 01:24:54.760 so that we can get things accomplished, so that we 1411 01:24:54.840 --> 01:25:00.720 can mark time. But it actually doesn't really exist. And 1412 01:25:00.920 --> 01:25:04.079 I believe there's a lot of fiddling about with time 1413 01:25:04.920 --> 01:25:10.399 that goes on here. But certainly, as you said in Midlife, 1414 01:25:12.520 --> 01:25:18.359 the vast majority of ET encounters are happening in the 1415 01:25:18.520 --> 01:25:23.920 etheric body of the experiencer, and they are willing participants 1416 01:25:24.279 --> 01:25:28.119 who are working in some kind of collaboration with the ETS, 1417 01:25:28.159 --> 01:25:31.279 either to help our environment or rescue children know who 1418 01:25:31.720 --> 01:25:36.359 you know, who knows what it is. And the kinds 1419 01:25:36.359 --> 01:25:38.680 of things that happen to little children when they're taken 1420 01:25:38.760 --> 01:25:43.319 are like kind of like games. They I've heard stories 1421 01:25:43.319 --> 01:25:45.920 where they're you know, they're taken into groups with a 1422 01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:48.640 lot of other little children, some of whom are humanoids, 1423 01:25:48.680 --> 01:25:52.600 some who aren't, and they're working in various things were 1424 01:25:52.640 --> 01:25:56.479 with their minds. They're constructing shapes, and it all sounds 1425 01:25:56.640 --> 01:26:00.479 like toys and like play, but it's certainly some type 1426 01:26:00.520 --> 01:26:07.199 of a learning experience, training to develop these side these 1427 01:26:07.239 --> 01:26:09.680 psionic these psionic characteristics PSI. 1428 01:26:10.039 --> 01:26:12.520 Yes. I've also interviewed a few people that claim to 1429 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.079 have been in the Secret Space Program in twenty in back, 1430 01:26:15.199 --> 01:26:18.520 and they have also claimed to have experienced similar things 1431 01:26:19.239 --> 01:26:22.439 these you know, training environments, as young children being taken 1432 01:26:22.520 --> 01:26:25.600 and going to these classroom like environments things of that nature. 1433 01:26:26.199 --> 01:26:27.640 So that's very interesting. 1434 01:26:28.760 --> 01:26:34.920 Indeed, And I do have a number of individuals that 1435 01:26:35.000 --> 01:26:39.640 I'm working with who are or have memories of being 1436 01:26:40.520 --> 01:26:43.479 involved in the twenty and back the Secret Space program, 1437 01:26:43.600 --> 01:26:46.399 And I think the cutting edge a lot of what 1438 01:26:46.479 --> 01:26:49.640 we're going to see over these next five years, Chris, 1439 01:26:50.279 --> 01:26:52.800 are a lot of these individuals coming forward, both men 1440 01:26:52.840 --> 01:26:55.600 and women. And one of the reasons for this is 1441 01:26:55.920 --> 01:26:59.840 and this is something that Jason Rice has said and 1442 01:27:00.720 --> 01:27:03.760 I've long been in agreement with that any kind of 1443 01:27:03.960 --> 01:27:10.399 memory blocks that were developed by the terrestrial military, shall 1444 01:27:10.479 --> 01:27:14.439 we say, they only developed them to last for twenty years. 1445 01:27:15.640 --> 01:27:20.640 So these dear people who have served not only our 1446 01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:24.000 country but our world, these dear people who are suffering 1447 01:27:24.039 --> 01:27:29.039 from some very unique PTSD are now beginning to have 1448 01:27:29.479 --> 01:27:33.760 memories come back. Because there is no memory block that 1449 01:27:33.920 --> 01:27:38.680 lasts forever. It doesn't exist, whether it's et installed or 1450 01:27:38.720 --> 01:27:43.359 whether it's been installed by reverse technology through some machinations 1451 01:27:43.399 --> 01:27:48.880 of the Secret Space program. There is no permanent memory block. 1452 01:27:49.640 --> 01:27:52.560 And many of these dear people who have served so 1453 01:27:52.760 --> 01:27:59.439 valiantly in twenty and back, they are beginning to recover 1454 01:28:00.680 --> 01:28:04.720 their memories. Like on the older side, we have Randy Kramer. 1455 01:28:06.039 --> 01:28:08.079 I'm not sure how you feel about Corey Good, but 1456 01:28:08.640 --> 01:28:12.199 you know the younger guy, Jason Rice is about ten 1457 01:28:12.319 --> 01:28:15.239 fifteen years younger than Randy Kramer. So we are starting 1458 01:28:15.319 --> 01:28:18.439 to have people come forward, and I have had although 1459 01:28:18.479 --> 01:28:21.680 they haven't come out publicly. I have worked with a 1460 01:28:21.800 --> 01:28:25.800 number of female experiencers who are also in the twenty 1461 01:28:25.840 --> 01:28:29.720 and back. So this is not like a male domain. 1462 01:28:30.560 --> 01:28:33.880 It's just the first guys, the first people to discuss 1463 01:28:33.960 --> 01:28:34.800 this have been men. 1464 01:28:38.560 --> 01:28:41.760 Yeah, it's really fascinating, especially with what's happening right now 1465 01:28:41.880 --> 01:28:46.399 with all of the disclosure in the mainstream and the 1466 01:28:46.600 --> 01:28:48.560 space force. And I do want to get your take 1467 01:28:48.640 --> 01:28:50.600 on that, but I want to go over some of 1468 01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:55.880 these experiences first. Now, Okay, when it comes to people's 1469 01:28:56.079 --> 01:29:03.079 experiences themselves, especially, I'm hearing more and more contact these 1470 01:29:03.119 --> 01:29:05.880 and experience ers say that in the beginning they were 1471 01:29:06.000 --> 01:29:08.720 terrified and they you know, they thought that they were 1472 01:29:08.800 --> 01:29:11.239 being killed or these beings were going to hurt them. 1473 01:29:11.880 --> 01:29:15.039 But the more they find out about these experiences, the 1474 01:29:15.159 --> 01:29:18.199 more they look back or have a regression done or 1475 01:29:18.279 --> 01:29:21.479 something like this, it turns into a more positive experience 1476 01:29:21.640 --> 01:29:25.199 and they become less afraid of these beings and even 1477 01:29:25.319 --> 01:29:28.000 kind of welcome it eventually. Is this something that you 1478 01:29:28.159 --> 01:29:30.520 find is common with contact these? 1479 01:29:31.479 --> 01:29:34.640 I think that's incredibly accurate, Chris, of the of the 1480 01:29:35.520 --> 01:29:38.800 of the majority of the experiences that people have, the 1481 01:29:38.920 --> 01:29:44.159 majority of experiences that people have are positive, most of them. 1482 01:29:45.680 --> 01:29:50.720 And I have to completely agree with what you said, 1483 01:29:50.800 --> 01:29:54.119 and sometimes looking back on things and being able to 1484 01:29:54.199 --> 01:29:57.840 look at them as they happened through regression instead of 1485 01:29:58.000 --> 01:30:01.520 just the fragments of stuff that weird, you know, you're 1486 01:30:01.560 --> 01:30:05.920 able to get a complete overview and then and then 1487 01:30:06.079 --> 01:30:10.720 realize that whatever happened was more or less a benign experience, 1488 01:30:10.960 --> 01:30:13.920 like like having a COVID test, you know, I mean, 1489 01:30:14.239 --> 01:30:19.399 and these are these are the realizations that people generally 1490 01:30:19.520 --> 01:30:24.039 come to. Now. Of course, we're dealing with a lot 1491 01:30:24.119 --> 01:30:30.720 of different species, Chris, A lot of different species. My 1492 01:30:31.319 --> 01:30:33.960 my personal opinion about the grays. Now, there are many 1493 01:30:34.079 --> 01:30:36.720 types of grays, but I think that the real the 1494 01:30:36.800 --> 01:30:40.680 little you know, drone like grays that are often assisting 1495 01:30:40.840 --> 01:30:43.960 in procedures and that you know, Travis Walton discussed in 1496 01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:48.119 his experience. I believe that they are not fully biological. 1497 01:30:48.640 --> 01:30:52.359 I believe that they are more drone like and they 1498 01:30:52.520 --> 01:30:56.039 often are doing the will of their you know, superiors, 1499 01:30:56.079 --> 01:30:59.079 who are much more like a lyrin or you know, 1500 01:30:59.720 --> 01:31:05.359 a humanoid type being. Most of the time humanoid type beings, 1501 01:31:05.439 --> 01:31:09.439 our own ancestors are really in charge. And I think 1502 01:31:09.520 --> 01:31:14.439 that the grays are biologically engineered beings at least the 1503 01:31:14.520 --> 01:31:20.279 small ones. Now, I know that grays were very involved 1504 01:31:20.560 --> 01:31:25.239 in the Roswell crash, a certain type of gray. In fact, 1505 01:31:25.680 --> 01:31:30.279 many individuals would date the beginning of the secret space 1506 01:31:30.439 --> 01:31:37.359 program with the Roswell crash. And I'm sure you've probably 1507 01:31:37.359 --> 01:31:40.960 at least looked at that amazing book by Philip Corso. 1508 01:31:41.079 --> 01:31:44.720 The day after Roswell, Well, you know, the whole our 1509 01:31:44.960 --> 01:31:48.319 modern era, you know, well Betty and Barney Hill happened 1510 01:31:48.359 --> 01:31:50.840 after that. But our modern era of what we are 1511 01:31:50.960 --> 01:31:53.680 dealing with or just finished dealing with, begins at Roswell. 1512 01:31:54.319 --> 01:32:01.680 And apparently after that crash, beings and at least two 1513 01:32:01.800 --> 01:32:06.319 living beings as well as a lot of technology was salvaged. 1514 01:32:06.439 --> 01:32:11.279 And there was apparently some type of deal made during 1515 01:32:11.359 --> 01:32:15.399 the time that Harry Truman was president. So this is 1516 01:32:15.560 --> 01:32:20.159 right after the war, you know, FDRs dead. Harry Truman's president, 1517 01:32:20.720 --> 01:32:23.640 and he was the president that made the deal with 1518 01:32:23.800 --> 01:32:26.960 these particular ets that were involved in the Roswell crash. 1519 01:32:27.239 --> 01:32:29.439 There were three crashes, by the way, you know, we 1520 01:32:29.640 --> 01:32:33.720 brought them down with some type of primitive electromagnetic weapon 1521 01:32:34.239 --> 01:32:38.359 that we were developing. We brought them down three beings 1522 01:32:38.439 --> 01:32:42.399 that were just looking around, but these beings made a 1523 01:32:42.520 --> 01:32:48.079 deal with maybe not just the United States government, but 1524 01:32:48.199 --> 01:32:50.600 it seems like it. They made a deal and said, okay, 1525 01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:52.720 well we're going to give you we'll give you some 1526 01:32:52.840 --> 01:32:57.960 advanced technology, but in exchange, we're having, you know, fertility problems. 1527 01:32:58.119 --> 01:33:01.279 We're not able to reproduce, and we would like to 1528 01:33:01.399 --> 01:33:05.920 harvest some DNA material, healthy DNA from a very small 1529 01:33:06.000 --> 01:33:11.800 amount of your Earth citizens. And apparently this was the agreement. 1530 01:33:12.000 --> 01:33:17.079 Now a very small amount. We don't know what that means, 1531 01:33:17.199 --> 01:33:22.680 but thousands upon thousands of both men for the harvesting 1532 01:33:22.760 --> 01:33:25.840 of sperm and both women for the harvesting of ova 1533 01:33:26.039 --> 01:33:30.960 or for the incubation of fertilized fetuses. Who knows. This 1534 01:33:31.159 --> 01:33:37.680 stuff went on like crazy with these particular ets who 1535 01:33:37.760 --> 01:33:41.479 had an agreement to do it. Now, this agreement ended 1536 01:33:42.720 --> 01:33:47.479 about I think about five years ago maybe, and so 1537 01:33:47.640 --> 01:33:50.399 the beings were true to their word. This doesn't happen anymore. 1538 01:33:51.039 --> 01:33:54.600 It's not happening this kind of sexually motivated well, sexually 1539 01:33:54.840 --> 01:33:59.840 that's the wrong word. Genetically motivated episodes are no longer 1540 01:34:00.800 --> 01:34:08.079 happening because the agreement has timed out, and so nowadays 1541 01:34:08.319 --> 01:34:12.960 it's very unusual for me to regress anyone who is 1542 01:34:13.119 --> 01:34:18.560 having an experience where either ova or sperm have been extracted, 1543 01:34:18.680 --> 01:34:21.479 that's very unusual. It has to be an older person 1544 01:34:22.159 --> 01:34:25.560 who is recalling the experience from their young adulthood. 1545 01:34:25.640 --> 01:34:29.920 Right now, Now, do you have any idea who are 1546 01:34:30.399 --> 01:34:32.960 who are these beings behind this? I know you talked 1547 01:34:32.960 --> 01:34:35.760 a little bit about how the grades are probably not 1548 01:34:36.439 --> 01:34:40.560 all biological entities. There may be some kind of android 1549 01:34:42.039 --> 01:34:49.399 android type engineered little robots that are being used by 1550 01:34:49.960 --> 01:34:53.560 more intelligent you've said, possibly even our ancestors. I found 1551 01:34:53.600 --> 01:34:57.600 that interesting because a few other researchers have talked about, 1552 01:34:57.840 --> 01:35:00.880 you know, aliens being us from the future, which is 1553 01:35:01.000 --> 01:35:03.960 very intriguing to me. Now, what do you think is 1554 01:35:04.079 --> 01:35:06.800 some of the agendas and who are the beings that 1555 01:35:07.600 --> 01:35:10.720 are on our side based on what you've learned from 1556 01:35:10.840 --> 01:35:11.960 different experiences. 1557 01:35:13.039 --> 01:35:15.600 Well, I think be the beings that are on our 1558 01:35:15.760 --> 01:35:23.600 side really are our cousins, the Pleiadeans, the Lyrins, the 1559 01:35:23.720 --> 01:35:25.880 beings that look so much like us, even that you know, 1560 01:35:26.560 --> 01:35:30.840 the Ononachi are considered in that group of lyrins, and 1561 01:35:31.239 --> 01:35:35.159 we are really the direct result. If we are to 1562 01:35:35.399 --> 01:35:38.880 accept the work of Zacharaizichen, which I do. We are 1563 01:35:38.960 --> 01:35:43.439 the direct result of some cloning experiences that occurred between 1564 01:35:43.520 --> 01:35:49.479 the sophisticated genetic scientists of the Anonachi and the indigenous 1565 01:35:50.640 --> 01:35:55.600 hominids that we're here at the time, sort of the 1566 01:35:55.680 --> 01:35:59.920 Neanderthal beings, if you will. So we are, in fact, 1567 01:36:00.159 --> 01:36:04.000 we have been upgraded. The Adama was the first being 1568 01:36:04.159 --> 01:36:08.039 that was created, and according to the work of Sitchen, 1569 01:36:08.119 --> 01:36:11.119 all of this happened, you know, when you know, sixty 1570 01:36:11.239 --> 01:36:13.840 thousand years ago, and it was all about the heart 1571 01:36:13.880 --> 01:36:17.640 of the mining of gold in South Africa. So Michael 1572 01:36:17.720 --> 01:36:21.159 Tellinger is a wonderful source to go to for the 1573 01:36:21.399 --> 01:36:24.640 history of the Onunaki and the South American gold mines. 1574 01:36:24.680 --> 01:36:28.520 He's one of the leading experts in that now. But 1575 01:36:28.760 --> 01:36:37.199 I believe that these beings, our progenitors, have never not 1576 01:36:37.600 --> 01:36:41.359 cared about what's going on with us. I think they 1577 01:36:41.399 --> 01:36:45.720 had been watching from Afar, as we will not necessarily 1578 01:36:45.800 --> 01:36:48.680 always from Afar, but they've been watching as we stumble 1579 01:36:48.840 --> 01:36:54.039 through our nuclear bullshit and our racial bullshit, and you know, 1580 01:36:54.199 --> 01:36:57.000 our war, all of our shit that we struggle through. 1581 01:36:57.279 --> 01:37:01.199 And I think that again and maybe a little bit 1582 01:37:01.439 --> 01:37:05.520 like the gene Rodberry Federation of Planets. I think there's 1583 01:37:05.600 --> 01:37:09.000 a hands off policy until we get to a certain point, 1584 01:37:09.760 --> 01:37:13.039 like you would tell you, Like again in Star Trek, 1585 01:37:13.159 --> 01:37:18.439 you talk, they divide. They have a prewarp civilizations can't 1586 01:37:18.520 --> 01:37:22.239 be messed with because they haven't discovered how to travel yet. 1587 01:37:23.199 --> 01:37:26.319 I think this is where we are. We are, in fact, 1588 01:37:26.399 --> 01:37:31.079 a kind of a prewarp civilization. We are the end 1589 01:37:31.119 --> 01:37:36.119 result of many genetic contributions from many different species. And 1590 01:37:37.079 --> 01:37:41.119 who's pulling the strings, who's in charge? That's like the 1591 01:37:41.239 --> 01:37:45.600 question of questions. I do, as I mentioned before, I 1592 01:37:45.760 --> 01:37:48.239 do think that there is a kind of a united 1593 01:37:48.640 --> 01:37:53.399 federation of planets of the evolved species who but you 1594 01:37:53.479 --> 01:37:56.600 know they But as far as what goes on our 1595 01:37:56.680 --> 01:38:01.520 planet goes on in our planet, it's hard not to 1596 01:38:01.720 --> 01:38:08.119 believe that there isn't some negative influence deeply embedded here. 1597 01:38:09.000 --> 01:38:12.239 Now, depending on who you're talking to, some would say 1598 01:38:12.279 --> 01:38:15.600 the Annaki is pure evil, and you know, the even 1599 01:38:15.680 --> 01:38:19.319 though they created us, they were just using us for slaves, 1600 01:38:19.840 --> 01:38:22.199 and that we you know, that's a species that can't 1601 01:38:22.239 --> 01:38:25.239 be trusted. So, you know, there's so many different views 1602 01:38:25.520 --> 01:38:28.399 on who's a bad et, who's a good et. And 1603 01:38:28.520 --> 01:38:32.399 I'm sure there's a lot of misinformation intentionally put out there, 1604 01:38:32.520 --> 01:38:35.399 so we really don't know. But you know, it is 1605 01:38:35.640 --> 01:38:38.960 very interesting to think that the more I look at 1606 01:38:39.159 --> 01:38:45.039 at our existence and extraterrestrial phenomenon and abductions and contact 1607 01:38:45.159 --> 01:38:49.079 experiences and all these things we can't explain, I think 1608 01:38:49.119 --> 01:38:53.000 sometimes maybe we are just an experiment for these beings 1609 01:38:53.840 --> 01:38:55.520 and they just you know, they pop in every while 1610 01:38:55.600 --> 01:38:56.840 to see how the experiment's going. 1611 01:38:57.000 --> 01:38:59.760 I don't know, well, it kind of feels like that now. 1612 01:39:00.239 --> 01:39:05.199 I have a real trouble with seeing the Onanoki as 1613 01:39:05.760 --> 01:39:10.760 intrinsically evil. There's a book that everybody out there should read. 1614 01:39:10.840 --> 01:39:13.439 It's called The Lost Book of Anki, and it's another 1615 01:39:13.560 --> 01:39:17.000 work by Zachariasichen, but it gives a real personal view 1616 01:39:17.600 --> 01:39:19.760 of what Anki, one of the two brothers who was 1617 01:39:19.840 --> 01:39:24.479 involved here, went through trying to So you basically had 1618 01:39:24.560 --> 01:39:28.680 two brothers, one who was very humanitarian and wanted the 1619 01:39:28.760 --> 01:39:31.439 human beings that had been created as a slave race 1620 01:39:32.000 --> 01:39:35.600 to evolve and have access to their higher nature. And 1621 01:39:35.680 --> 01:39:39.560 then you had you know, his brother, an asshole, you know, 1622 01:39:40.960 --> 01:39:44.319 and Leo, who wanted who would rather have us blown 1623 01:39:44.399 --> 01:39:49.199 off the face of the earth. So there within every civilization, 1624 01:39:49.479 --> 01:39:52.359 you know, you've got your you've got your different points 1625 01:39:52.359 --> 01:39:55.439 of view and what have you. I think it's important 1626 01:39:55.479 --> 01:39:58.600 to remember that the onanoch you were people. They were 1627 01:39:58.680 --> 01:40:04.279 not gods. They were imperfect beings struggling to save their 1628 01:40:04.319 --> 01:40:08.960 home planet, struggling for power, and they found themselves in 1629 01:40:09.039 --> 01:40:15.479 a situation which through the through the amazing, uh almost 1630 01:40:15.600 --> 01:40:19.960 magical properties of physics on our planet, they had abnormally 1631 01:40:20.079 --> 01:40:25.640 long lives and so they were godlike and they passed 1632 01:40:25.720 --> 01:40:31.119 this longevity to the early you know Biblical fathers, you know, Methuselah, 1633 01:40:31.640 --> 01:40:34.720 these were all pretty even Noah was was a son 1634 01:40:34.800 --> 01:40:40.000 of Inki. So these there, the Bible itself, uh, is 1635 01:40:40.079 --> 01:40:43.000 sort of like, uh, let's see, we say in the States, 1636 01:40:43.119 --> 01:40:48.119 like a cliffs Notes version of what actually happened. You know, 1637 01:40:48.359 --> 01:40:51.039 so many books have been thrown out and edited by 1638 01:40:51.119 --> 01:40:53.880 so many people with agendas. But the real story is there, 1639 01:40:54.640 --> 01:40:57.319 and it's a story of It's a story of you know, 1640 01:40:58.520 --> 01:41:02.800 greed and jealousy. You know, even our early Biblical stories, 1641 01:41:02.880 --> 01:41:06.279 you know that canaan Abel. You know, these are aspects 1642 01:41:06.319 --> 01:41:10.079 of ourselves that we're also aspects of the Atanaki. We 1643 01:41:10.199 --> 01:41:15.319 are them, They are us as above so below. I 1644 01:41:15.359 --> 01:41:18.640 don't think we need any I don't think, you know, 1645 01:41:18.760 --> 01:41:22.119 I don't like any thoughts about like demons and all 1646 01:41:22.279 --> 01:41:26.000 this kind of garbage. I don't think we need any 1647 01:41:26.119 --> 01:41:28.239 help to be terrible to ourselves. 1648 01:41:29.600 --> 01:41:31.920 I think you're right about that. I think humans have 1649 01:41:32.439 --> 01:41:35.000 got a lot of evil covered on their own. And 1650 01:41:35.119 --> 01:41:38.239 it makes me wonder when it comes to the evil 1651 01:41:38.319 --> 01:41:41.199 that's occurring on our planet, all the negativity, all the 1652 01:41:41.279 --> 01:41:43.680 things that are happening, and the ones at the top, 1653 01:41:43.880 --> 01:41:46.520 you know, are are they really in cahoots with like 1654 01:41:46.640 --> 01:41:49.319 off planet entities? Are they just evil people? You know, 1655 01:41:49.520 --> 01:41:51.199 that's always the big question for me. 1656 01:41:52.439 --> 01:41:56.079 Bad humans. It doesn't take any more than bad humans. 1657 01:41:56.960 --> 01:42:00.239 Greed is the thing, you know, Greed. Greed is the 1658 01:42:00.319 --> 01:42:04.079 thin greed power. And there are those that would argue 1659 01:42:04.199 --> 01:42:07.600 that these are qualities that were bred into us by 1660 01:42:07.680 --> 01:42:12.279 the Onornaki, and I can't really counter that. I think 1661 01:42:12.319 --> 01:42:14.800 it's I think it's very probable, but we are meant 1662 01:42:14.840 --> 01:42:17.319 to rise above these things. But I don't, you know, 1663 01:42:17.399 --> 01:42:20.279 and people talk about the you know, the queen being 1664 01:42:20.359 --> 01:42:24.319 Reptilian and the buildebergs and all this is all. This 1665 01:42:24.520 --> 01:42:27.399 is all a big smoke stream for the basic fact 1666 01:42:27.479 --> 01:42:30.439 that we as human beings cannot take responsibility for our 1667 01:42:30.479 --> 01:42:36.960 own planet, for feeding every hungry baby, and we we 1668 01:42:37.199 --> 01:42:42.920 cannot take responsibility. And uh, this is this is our challenge, 1669 01:42:43.079 --> 01:42:45.640 This is our challenge. We must come together for the 1670 01:42:45.720 --> 01:42:46.319 greater good. 1671 01:42:46.960 --> 01:42:49.640 Well, that being said, if you know, if it's true 1672 01:42:49.760 --> 01:42:52.479 that we did make a deal with extra terrestrials for 1673 01:42:52.560 --> 01:42:55.279 them the harvest genetic material, you know, do you think 1674 01:42:55.319 --> 01:42:58.840 that there's possibly factions of I don't want to say 1675 01:42:58.880 --> 01:43:01.720 our government or you know, shadow government, whatever you want 1676 01:43:01.720 --> 01:43:04.600 to call it, that are working with negative ets for 1677 01:43:05.000 --> 01:43:06.800 certain nefarious purposes. 1678 01:43:08.640 --> 01:43:12.840 I think the most negative et affiliation that we can 1679 01:43:12.960 --> 01:43:16.439 probably put our fingers on was the affiliation that Hitler 1680 01:43:16.600 --> 01:43:20.600 had with a specific group of grays. And now this 1681 01:43:20.800 --> 01:43:24.520 is of course highly controversial, but Hitler of course was 1682 01:43:24.680 --> 01:43:27.079 way out there. He was open, you know, he had 1683 01:43:27.119 --> 01:43:30.560 the real society. He was completely open to all of 1684 01:43:30.640 --> 01:43:33.680 this kind of stuff, and he directed a lot of 1685 01:43:34.319 --> 01:43:43.319 technology in this kind of vein and even oh gosh, 1686 01:43:43.439 --> 01:43:47.279 what is his name, one of one of the one 1687 01:43:47.319 --> 01:43:51.319 of the very very famous astrophysicist rocket scientists that came 1688 01:43:51.359 --> 01:43:54.000 over a project paper clip to the United States. He 1689 01:43:54.119 --> 01:43:59.520 was very tall, very very teutonic looking, and oh god, 1690 01:44:00.159 --> 01:44:05.279 my brain, my brain. Anyway, I'll think of it at 1691 01:44:05.319 --> 01:44:08.319 three in the morning. Oh, Chris, that's what it was. Anyway, 1692 01:44:09.880 --> 01:44:12.920 it is, he said, this famous scientist, and I'll probably 1693 01:44:12.960 --> 01:44:16.600 think of it. He was asked about, you know, der Glock, 1694 01:44:17.239 --> 01:44:19.399 you know, like some of these things that went on, 1695 01:44:19.560 --> 01:44:23.079 and you know, how are these things developed? And he said, 1696 01:44:23.439 --> 01:44:29.039 we had help from and gestured upstairs. So there was 1697 01:44:29.119 --> 01:44:32.720 a certain group of Grays that had the idea that 1698 01:44:33.199 --> 01:44:38.479 I guess regimenting human beings into you know, like pens, 1699 01:44:38.920 --> 01:44:41.279 which is what Hitler was doing, was a good idea, 1700 01:44:41.960 --> 01:44:45.279 and allegedly there was quite a bit of collaboration there. 1701 01:44:46.079 --> 01:44:51.319 And also, whether it's true or not, the legend is 1702 01:44:51.479 --> 01:44:56.560 that you know, Hitler's army are missing something like twenty 1703 01:44:56.680 --> 01:45:03.319 seven nuclear subs that just disappeared, and the some some 1704 01:45:03.560 --> 01:45:07.199 have speculated that they had a chance to get to 1705 01:45:07.560 --> 01:45:10.279 Antarctica or New Schwabi Land as they were calling it, 1706 01:45:11.239 --> 01:45:15.239 so anything as possible. But yes, those ets that we 1707 01:45:15.800 --> 01:45:20.760 were collaborating with Hitler were absolutely negative, and they were Grays, 1708 01:45:21.279 --> 01:45:24.680 and you know, it's just like anything. You know, I'm 1709 01:45:24.720 --> 01:45:27.520 a New Yorker, you know people, You've got good people, 1710 01:45:27.720 --> 01:45:30.600 bad people all over this city. You know, it's it's 1711 01:45:30.840 --> 01:45:33.119 it's a diverse group. We have to be careful with 1712 01:45:33.199 --> 01:45:37.279 who we associate with. And but I do think that 1713 01:45:37.640 --> 01:45:42.840 there is a benevolent organization that is kind of overseeing 1714 01:45:43.039 --> 01:45:46.199 what is going on with us. Now. Now, as far 1715 01:45:46.279 --> 01:45:50.319 as disclosure, I never saw so much garbage in my 1716 01:45:50.479 --> 01:45:53.760 life as that six page piece of bullshit from the government. 1717 01:45:56.159 --> 01:45:58.439 It was a joke. You know, we've been waiting for 1718 01:45:58.560 --> 01:46:01.920 the bull It's it's a joke. It's a joke. So 1719 01:46:02.279 --> 01:46:05.079 I think we just need to ignore that. And in fact, 1720 01:46:05.199 --> 01:46:07.800 many of the people that I regress have been told 1721 01:46:08.479 --> 01:46:11.319 by their you know, et people that they deal with 1722 01:46:11.520 --> 01:46:15.680 that that disclosure is never going to happen through the government, 1723 01:46:16.520 --> 01:46:19.119 you know the way that you know, maybe in a 1724 01:46:19.199 --> 01:46:21.960 film in a cinematic sense, we would like to see it. 1725 01:46:22.079 --> 01:46:26.119 They tried that, they buzzed the White House, they dealt 1726 01:46:26.159 --> 01:46:28.880 with some of the and some of the benevolent ets 1727 01:46:29.000 --> 01:46:32.479 tried to deal with them with Eisenhower, and we're met 1728 01:46:32.640 --> 01:46:36.960 with a complete shutting down. They said, let us you know, 1729 01:46:37.119 --> 01:46:39.359 let us help you with the pollution, with the with 1730 01:46:39.520 --> 01:46:41.239 the free energy. And he said, oh no, no, no, 1731 01:46:41.359 --> 01:46:44.479 no everything, our economy will collapse. No. And that was 1732 01:46:44.560 --> 01:46:48.399 a nineteen That was in nineteen, you know, sixty or 1733 01:46:48.479 --> 01:46:52.399 what have you. So they've tried, I think the benevolent 1734 01:46:52.479 --> 01:46:56.239 beings have tried. And so now what they're doing is 1735 01:46:56.279 --> 01:47:00.680 they are they are coming through channels. There's a lot 1736 01:47:00.800 --> 01:47:03.600 of that going on. A lot of people are channeling 1737 01:47:04.239 --> 01:47:07.760 amazing beings, like my friend Daryl Anka, who has been 1738 01:47:07.840 --> 01:47:11.399 channeling Bishar for god knows how many years. So there's 1739 01:47:11.520 --> 01:47:17.159 channeling going on, and there are many many human beings 1740 01:47:18.079 --> 01:47:21.640 that are working with the ets on collaborative projects while 1741 01:47:21.680 --> 01:47:25.439 they are you know, allegedly asleep. They're just turned off. 1742 01:47:25.840 --> 01:47:29.279 They're by locating. So this is this is the shape 1743 01:47:30.000 --> 01:47:33.680 of disclosure. It's not going to come through you know, 1744 01:47:34.239 --> 01:47:37.279 what's his name, Elizondo is stupid. 1745 01:47:37.640 --> 01:47:40.920 Well, but there's also kind of being painted as a threat, 1746 01:47:41.319 --> 01:47:45.359 you know, from the media and the government. But the 1747 01:47:45.439 --> 01:47:48.840 way I look at it is if they were a threat, 1748 01:47:48.880 --> 01:47:53.760 they could have eliminated us so many times over throughout history, 1749 01:47:54.159 --> 01:47:58.319 you know, and it seems like, I don't know, what. 1750 01:47:58.520 --> 01:48:00.640 They backpedal and then they put out a little of 1751 01:48:00.680 --> 01:48:02.960 information and they say, oh, it could be a threat, 1752 01:48:03.159 --> 01:48:05.399 or it could just swamp gas. 1753 01:48:05.239 --> 01:48:08.520 And birds in the air, you know, swamp gas, right. 1754 01:48:09.399 --> 01:48:11.800 So, I'm not sure why all of a sudden, you know, 1755 01:48:12.039 --> 01:48:15.760 in in twenty seventeen, of course, the New York Times 1756 01:48:15.920 --> 01:48:18.720 article blew the lid open on the whole UFO thing, 1757 01:48:18.840 --> 01:48:21.319 and then the mainstream started talking about it. All of 1758 01:48:21.359 --> 01:48:23.520 a sudden, it was okay to talk about it. Uh, 1759 01:48:23.680 --> 01:48:25.880 then we have this weak report just come out, and 1760 01:48:26.000 --> 01:48:29.119 they kind of backpedaled a little. So it's very strange, 1761 01:48:29.199 --> 01:48:31.239 to say the least, what's going on right now? And 1762 01:48:31.239 --> 01:48:35.000 I always question why the timing? Why right now are 1763 01:48:35.039 --> 01:48:37.640 they starting to talk about this. Are they trying to 1764 01:48:37.720 --> 01:48:40.840 get ahead of something? Do they know that there's going 1765 01:48:40.880 --> 01:48:43.199 to be something occurring that they can't control? 1766 01:48:43.640 --> 01:48:47.119 You know, they know nothing. They're they're operating in fear. 1767 01:48:47.199 --> 01:48:52.760 They're they're they're they're marketing in fear because fear controls people. 1768 01:48:54.119 --> 01:48:57.840 Fear controls people. If they keep a climate of fear going, 1769 01:48:58.079 --> 01:49:00.359 like we don't know what's happening, we we don't know, 1770 01:49:01.359 --> 01:49:06.760 people are destabilized. But in reality, there is absolutely nothing 1771 01:49:06.880 --> 01:49:09.359 to fear. And as you said so eloquently a few 1772 01:49:09.439 --> 01:49:13.640 moments ago, if they were hostile, if they wanted to 1773 01:49:13.720 --> 01:49:17.520 take our resources and blow us off this planet, it 1774 01:49:17.560 --> 01:49:22.279 would have, by god happened, you know, a long time ago. 1775 01:49:23.000 --> 01:49:27.000 This is not what's happening. There are benevolent beings who 1776 01:49:27.039 --> 01:49:29.479 are trying to lift us up, you know, to help 1777 01:49:29.560 --> 01:49:34.880 us increase our vibration and move to a new vibrational level. 1778 01:49:35.560 --> 01:49:38.399 Now maybe you know again, and I know we were 1779 01:49:38.439 --> 01:49:44.119 talking about this earlier. It's hard to imagine that all 1780 01:49:44.239 --> 01:49:48.840 of us on Earth, with the wide disparity of intellect 1781 01:49:48.960 --> 01:49:54.119 and experience, that we could all be sort of raised 1782 01:49:54.239 --> 01:49:58.359 up to a new vibration at the same time. I'm 1783 01:49:58.439 --> 01:50:02.600 not sure that can happen, but but I think that 1784 01:50:02.840 --> 01:50:04.720 is the goal. I think that is the goal. And 1785 01:50:04.800 --> 01:50:08.039 I also think there are a lot of hybrid beings 1786 01:50:08.079 --> 01:50:11.600 that are living among us. You know, they've been they've 1787 01:50:11.640 --> 01:50:15.600 been at the hybridization program so long that there are 1788 01:50:15.720 --> 01:50:19.000 beings that that are hybrids that we would that just 1789 01:50:19.079 --> 01:50:21.479 are so much like us, we would never think to 1790 01:50:22.520 --> 01:50:23.800 single them out for any reason. 1791 01:50:24.039 --> 01:50:24.159 You know. 1792 01:50:24.239 --> 01:50:28.039 I'm hearing that more and more from from from different individuals, 1793 01:50:28.119 --> 01:50:31.119 some pretty high level individuals that I that I met 1794 01:50:31.560 --> 01:50:35.520 lately telling me, you know that there's hybrids walking among us, 1795 01:50:35.560 --> 01:50:39.079 which is very interesting, to say the least. Now, I 1796 01:50:39.159 --> 01:50:42.279 want to go back for just a minute to people's 1797 01:50:42.319 --> 01:50:47.199 experiences being abducted or taken on a ship and then 1798 01:50:47.720 --> 01:50:51.079 they have foreign objects or implants that they notice and 1799 01:50:51.159 --> 01:50:56.399 the uh, now, what in your in your experiences, what 1800 01:50:56.640 --> 01:50:59.840 have been some of the purposes of these implants and 1801 01:51:00.960 --> 01:51:03.279 have they been in any danger to people? 1802 01:51:04.079 --> 01:51:08.680 Hmm, that's that's a very interesting question. Now I would 1803 01:51:08.800 --> 01:51:12.560 say that I don't think any implants have ever been 1804 01:51:12.600 --> 01:51:18.359 in danger to anyone. I really don't. What I think 1805 01:51:18.520 --> 01:51:21.199 is happening is and this is the information that I've 1806 01:51:21.239 --> 01:51:24.000 been getting from people that I regress, that the implants 1807 01:51:25.279 --> 01:51:28.640 are kind of like step up transformers in a sense 1808 01:51:29.319 --> 01:51:33.319 that wherever they are, they are designed to stimulate or 1809 01:51:33.560 --> 01:51:39.199 increase psychic ability or intuition or or things of that. 1810 01:51:39.439 --> 01:51:44.199 More esoteric nature about is that's what they're designed to do, 1811 01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:47.840 and when they're done doing their work, they generally dissolve 1812 01:51:48.000 --> 01:51:51.319 or they fall out, like if it's something in somebody's nose. 1813 01:51:51.359 --> 01:51:53.000 You hear about that all the time where just they 1814 01:51:53.079 --> 01:51:55.359 sneeze it and a little ball comes out. You know, 1815 01:51:55.479 --> 01:52:00.960 these are so these are benign. I boy, I wish 1816 01:52:01.039 --> 01:52:03.359 you know. Doctor Lear has passed away. He was the 1817 01:52:03.439 --> 01:52:08.840 foremost expert on implants, and he had removed so many, 1818 01:52:09.560 --> 01:52:12.399 and he found that some of the implants, as soon 1819 01:52:12.439 --> 01:52:15.479 as they were exposed to an atmosphere, they dissolved. They 1820 01:52:15.600 --> 01:52:20.079 just dissolve completely. Some of them kind of ran from 1821 01:52:20.159 --> 01:52:23.239 him in the body, like if he was trying to 1822 01:52:23.319 --> 01:52:25.920 take something out of somebody's hand and it would move 1823 01:52:26.039 --> 01:52:31.159 and run. So there's a big variety of them. But 1824 01:52:31.279 --> 01:52:38.279 I honestly have never heard of anything negative ever occurring 1825 01:52:38.399 --> 01:52:43.840 form any implants, and most experiencers report having them. Some 1826 01:52:44.119 --> 01:52:48.680 experiencers have told me that they have implants or hardware, 1827 01:52:48.760 --> 01:52:50.920 whatever you want to call it, in their etheric body, 1828 01:52:51.560 --> 01:52:55.600 but not in their physical body. So perhaps beings that 1829 01:52:55.680 --> 01:53:01.640 are of a higher dimensional resonance may use implants that 1830 01:53:02.640 --> 01:53:07.239 simply are are in light matter and not in our 1831 01:53:07.399 --> 01:53:13.920 solid physical matter. So I have not heard anything negative 1832 01:53:14.000 --> 01:53:17.000 as far as what they do or what they don't do. 1833 01:53:17.399 --> 01:53:20.760 And the answers that I continue to get from experienceers 1834 01:53:20.880 --> 01:53:25.239 are that they are to help and assist with our development, 1835 01:53:26.039 --> 01:53:28.000 and they're not meant to harm in any way. 1836 01:53:29.319 --> 01:53:35.000 Is it common when you're working with experiencers that they 1837 01:53:35.159 --> 01:53:39.600 have the experience of I guess, going being able to 1838 01:53:39.680 --> 01:53:42.840 go through matter, or you know, being taken and they're 1839 01:53:42.880 --> 01:53:48.000 going through their ceiling somehow. It's like they can change 1840 01:53:48.119 --> 01:53:51.880 the structure of their body somehow. Is this something common 1841 01:53:51.960 --> 01:53:52.520 you've noticed? 1842 01:53:53.720 --> 01:53:58.000 It's super common, Chris, And especially when people are taken 1843 01:53:58.079 --> 01:54:00.880 early in life as children or whatever is mentioned. What 1844 01:54:01.079 --> 01:54:04.760 seems to be happening is many of the ets are 1845 01:54:04.880 --> 01:54:12.479 able to simply adjust the vibration of our cells so 1846 01:54:12.720 --> 01:54:17.960 that they can match that vibration with say the vibration 1847 01:54:18.119 --> 01:54:20.359 of what's going on with the wall or a ceiling. 1848 01:54:20.439 --> 01:54:23.199 Because everything is in motion, all molecules are in motion. 1849 01:54:24.159 --> 01:54:28.119 When things we perceive that as hard are just moving 1850 01:54:28.359 --> 01:54:34.800 very slowly. But even glass is liquid technically, so I 1851 01:54:35.000 --> 01:54:39.359 think that many of the beings can simply adjust our 1852 01:54:39.560 --> 01:54:43.800 level of vibration so that the cells, our cells can 1853 01:54:44.079 --> 01:54:48.399 pass through similar cells that they adjust like through a 1854 01:54:48.600 --> 01:54:53.239 solid object. It seems to be an adjustment, and that's it. 1855 01:54:53.680 --> 01:54:57.119 Along the same lines, these beings seem to be able 1856 01:54:57.239 --> 01:54:59.840 to be around us at all times, and just not 1857 01:55:00.079 --> 01:55:03.680 in our visible spectrum. I've talked with a couple of 1858 01:55:03.760 --> 01:55:08.800 contactes who said that they've had interactions with these beings, 1859 01:55:08.840 --> 01:55:11.439 who said that they can see them. They just they 1860 01:55:11.520 --> 01:55:15.640 can't see us, but they can adjust our vision to 1861 01:55:15.680 --> 01:55:18.199 where we can see them somehow. It's very interesting. 1862 01:55:19.279 --> 01:55:23.000 That's absolutely absolutely true. This is exactly what I'm what 1863 01:55:23.119 --> 01:55:27.800 I'm hearing, and which is now the only the only 1864 01:55:28.000 --> 01:55:31.399 difference that people seem to experience. If there's an et 1865 01:55:31.760 --> 01:55:37.039 presence that is not manifesting fully physically, as opposed to 1866 01:55:37.199 --> 01:55:42.439 a discarnate spirit, like a humanoid spirit that doesn't know 1867 01:55:42.479 --> 01:55:45.039 they're dead, or is like hanging out and hasn't moved 1868 01:55:45.079 --> 01:55:49.079 on the spirit. Energy of the discarnate spirit will create 1869 01:55:49.199 --> 01:55:53.479 cold spots because they're trying to grab energy and manifest. 1870 01:55:54.920 --> 01:55:59.680 I have found that when beings who are extraterrestrial but 1871 01:56:00.319 --> 01:56:04.119 are not fully physicalized are trying to manifest, it's an 1872 01:56:04.119 --> 01:56:08.720 atmosphere of warmth, it's warm energy. It has a completely 1873 01:56:09.840 --> 01:56:14.640 different feeling than anything that you would call spooky or 1874 01:56:15.560 --> 01:56:20.239 or ghost like. Right. So, but yes, they are existing 1875 01:56:20.920 --> 01:56:26.640 in a different vibratory spectrum so that we can't necessarily 1876 01:56:26.760 --> 01:56:28.520 see them, but they can make it so that we 1877 01:56:28.640 --> 01:56:30.960 do see them. But it takes a lot of effort 1878 01:56:31.439 --> 01:56:35.439 for some beings, you know, and some beings are completely 1879 01:56:35.520 --> 01:56:37.800 physical in the way that we are. They just have 1880 01:56:37.960 --> 01:56:38.520 better tech. 1881 01:56:40.279 --> 01:56:44.760 Now it's the past few years you mentioned, you know, 1882 01:56:44.880 --> 01:56:49.399 people kind of awakening. I've noticed a shift in consciousness. 1883 01:56:50.000 --> 01:56:52.159 It seems to be wobbly, it seems to be up 1884 01:56:52.199 --> 01:56:52.560 and down. 1885 01:56:53.439 --> 01:56:54.760 But I think that. 1886 01:56:55.039 --> 01:56:59.119 More people are becoming more open minded now with all 1887 01:56:59.199 --> 01:57:01.560 the stuff in the main stream, with the et stuff, 1888 01:57:01.960 --> 01:57:06.319 I think more people might feel more comfortable talking about 1889 01:57:06.319 --> 01:57:09.359 their experiences, talking about things they've seen. You know, they're 1890 01:57:09.399 --> 01:57:12.600 letting the navy pilots report this stuff. Have you found 1891 01:57:12.640 --> 01:57:15.600 that more people since this whole UFO stuff has been 1892 01:57:15.760 --> 01:57:18.159 in the mainstream have been talking about this to you? 1893 01:57:19.399 --> 01:57:19.560 Oh? 1894 01:57:19.800 --> 01:57:22.960 Absolutely, and even you know, the amount of people that 1895 01:57:23.159 --> 01:57:26.840 come to me, it accelerates all the time. And I 1896 01:57:26.920 --> 01:57:30.439 mean just just look at the media. You know, you're 1897 01:57:30.600 --> 01:57:33.119 you're a young whipper snapper, but you know a few 1898 01:57:33.199 --> 01:57:37.439 years ago, there was hardly any programming on the major 1899 01:57:37.560 --> 01:57:42.119 networks that dealt with this type of subject matter. Certainly, 1900 01:57:42.279 --> 01:57:45.319 nothing is in depth as all the wonderful programming that 1901 01:57:45.399 --> 01:57:48.560 we have. Not only alternative programming and podcasting and such 1902 01:57:48.640 --> 01:57:53.199 like yourselves, but even the major networks are forced to have, 1903 01:57:53.840 --> 01:57:57.359 you know, all kinds of programming, you know, the Alaska Triangle, 1904 01:57:57.640 --> 01:58:01.960 this that. So I think I think we are really 1905 01:58:02.760 --> 01:58:06.479 on the crest. We're on the crest of huge disclosure, 1906 01:58:06.560 --> 01:58:12.319 in huge, huge progress. We really really are. But I 1907 01:58:12.520 --> 01:58:17.800 think if we're looking for, you know, like a benevolent 1908 01:58:18.119 --> 01:58:32.520 superhero gonna happen. I think I think we have to 1909 01:58:33.199 --> 01:58:38.680 We have to be responsible for our own evolution. We 1910 01:58:38.880 --> 01:58:43.159 really do. And it's all within our power. It's all 1911 01:58:43.359 --> 01:58:48.000 within our power right now. We can change anything. We 1912 01:58:48.439 --> 01:58:51.479 just have to agree upon it and do it. 1913 01:58:52.800 --> 01:58:55.039 Yes, very well said, I agree. It's going to be 1914 01:58:55.239 --> 01:58:58.800 up to us to make those changes, Leslie. I want 1915 01:58:58.840 --> 01:59:00.800 to thank you so much for coming on before you 1916 01:59:00.880 --> 01:59:05.279 head out. If anyone in our audience has an experience 1917 01:59:05.439 --> 01:59:08.479 that they, you know, be interested in possibly talking to 1918 01:59:08.520 --> 01:59:12.279 you about finding out more information about you your books, 1919 01:59:12.640 --> 01:59:14.239 what's the best way for them to do so? 1920 01:59:15.239 --> 01:59:20.479 Well, my mobile phone is always on. You can always 1921 01:59:20.680 --> 01:59:25.399 text me or ring me at four one six four 1922 01:59:25.680 --> 01:59:30.279 five four eight zero four one. Even if you just 1923 01:59:30.359 --> 01:59:34.039 want to chat, you know, if you just need some support, 1924 01:59:34.159 --> 01:59:37.960 some information, please call me and you can always email 1925 01:59:38.079 --> 01:59:42.399 me at Leslie l E s l e Y at 1926 01:59:43.479 --> 01:59:48.319 LightWork Hypnosis. That's all one word, LightWork Hypnosis dot com. 1927 01:59:48.880 --> 01:59:54.840 So text me, ring me, email me. I am happy 1928 01:59:55.000 --> 01:59:58.479 to hear. I'm happy to hear from anyone even if 1929 01:59:58.560 --> 02:00:00.920 you even if you just want support, if you're not 1930 02:00:01.079 --> 02:00:04.560 ready to explore it with any process, I don't care. 1931 02:00:05.359 --> 02:00:08.600 I'm here. I'm here as a support system, and I 1932 02:00:08.680 --> 02:00:11.319 have many colleagues that are also right by my side 1933 02:00:11.720 --> 02:00:12.680 as support systems. 1934 02:00:12.720 --> 02:00:13.520 It's not just me. 1935 02:00:14.000 --> 02:00:17.960 There's a whole whack of us ready to help people 1936 02:00:18.479 --> 02:00:19.279 in any way. 1937 02:00:19.199 --> 02:00:19.760 That we can. 1938 02:00:20.920 --> 02:00:23.319 Awesome, Leslie, thank you so much. You know, I have 1939 02:00:23.439 --> 02:00:26.279 a whole list of stuff that we didn't get to tonight. 1940 02:00:26.359 --> 02:00:28.720 So definitely I'm gonna have to have you back on 1941 02:00:28.920 --> 02:00:30.199 so we can cover some more. 1942 02:00:30.720 --> 02:00:34.479 Yeah, you better believe it, Chris, anytime you like, I'd 1943 02:00:34.520 --> 02:00:36.760 be so happy to chat with you. That's right. 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