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Speaker 2: Cars?

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deal cars. You couldn't possibly go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: All right, hey everyone, this is another retrospective. I've done

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a couple of these now or I go back to

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episodes I recorded a long time ago, remaster them, get

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the audio a little bit better. And this is a

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compilation of my two first ever conversations with George Bagby.

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These are about four years old now and at the

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time there's a big debate going on about American identity. Right,

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is America the great Satan? Is there something to be saved?

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And George and I went through and discussed that in

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two conversations totally about three hours. So I think i'd

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put these back out. Obviously, that debate continues to rage,

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and I think even though it's been a while, these

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conversations hold up a lot of you haven't seen them.

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I was a very small channel. And if you've enjoyed

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my conversations with Bagbee and wondered how we got started,

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well this is the answer to that question. So hope

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you guys enjoy. Be back with a more regular episode soon.

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But people tend to like these. It's a good way

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to hear the old content in one place and in

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much hopefully much much better audio I used to have. Anyway,

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guys appreciate it. Be back soon. Thanks. All right, I'm

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really excited for this. This is a big guest for me.

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You guys may not know them, but George Bagbey is

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a long term friend and mentor of mine, and before

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before I introduce him directly, you wanted to be actually

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asked to come on to speak about America. So obviously

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there's been a lot of dialogue recently, mostly between AA

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but also you know previous guy the show Pall Fahrenheit,

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Ryan turnip Seed and some other people about essentially the

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nature of America. You know, the global American Empire is

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a phrase that has been popularized in our circles and

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essentially is there some type of I guess is the

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global American Empire and American culture? Are those the same things?

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So obviously a lot of you know, digital ink has

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been spilled on that. And while there are a lot

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of you know, well written articles, I wasn't you alwaysn't

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quite satisfied with that. You know, I didn't feel like

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my position got expressed, and so I was really happy

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to hear when you know, George Bagby reached out to

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me and essentially asked to come on my show. So, George,

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could you introduce yourself and then we can head straight

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into it.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely, greetings. I call myself George Bagbee. I'm an American

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history teacher. I also teach ancient literature. I'm particularly interested

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in historiography. Historiography is a favorite subject of mine. Everyone's

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eyes always popped out when I start talking about historygraphy, Well,

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what is what is that? Exactly? It's it's about people

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talking about the subject of history, like what is history

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supposed to be? What are we doing when we're studying

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history talking about history? What's its purpose? And I guess

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that was my initial interest in this subject of America.

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It's a perennial subject among Americans. We all were frequently

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talking about America. What is America? What should America be?

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We've got a lot of ideologies on this subject, but

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it's certainly the matter with the American question, as we

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might term it, what what AA and Paul Fahrenheit have

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been talking about lately. It occurs to me AA said

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something that I thought went to the heart of the matter.

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I would like to I'd like to clarify I have.

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I have great respect for AA. He's he's truly an aristocrat.

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He's a man who's whose opinions matter and influence many

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of us. But AA said said something that struck me.

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He said, everyone knows what American culture is. Everyone knows

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what we're talking about when American culture. What American culture is,

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he says, it's homogeneous. He said, the outright denial of

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the very thing the United States has known for the

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world over is astounding to watch. And I guess I

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fit into that category. I am what he's talking about

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right there, because when I think America, I'm not thinking

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of McDonald's. I'm not thinking of Walmart. I'm not I'm

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not thinking of Major League Baseball. I'm thinking of a

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weird little town in Maine. I'm thinking of whatever Utah

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is supposed to be, which I'm not at all clear of,

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by the way, But I think it's weird and I

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think it's it's also great. It's like very American. Whatever

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they're doing out there.

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Speaker 2: Well, I fully agree with you. And it's interesting you

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bring up a little town in Maine because, for you know, reasons,

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we don't have to get into I essentially, in about

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twenty one days went from the the you know, the

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southern tip of Louisiana to the northern tip of Maine.

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And and look, I get it right, Like there's a

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target in both talents. You know, there's a burger king

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in both talents. Yeah, the idea that those cultures are

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the same, although I will say there is an odd

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amount of Acadian French in both that that is an

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odd but that's not what we're specifically talking about. The

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idea that those two places are the same, that the

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people who live there are the same is it is.

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To me, it's flagrantly untrue. And I think that before

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we get into this, there's something we should separate, which

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is there are kind of two claims being made. Which is,

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one like, the global American Empire is horrible and evil

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and we should oppose it, you know, almost at all costs.

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I agree with that. I think both of us are

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firmly anti empire, absolutely, But the other one is that

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American culture is deeply and irreparably flawed. You know, it's

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this kind of like immense force for evil that nothing

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good has ever come from American culture, And those are

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kind of equivocated. You know that you when you well,

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if you don't agree with one, you disagree with both.

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And to me, I would put myself very much in

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support of the first position and very much against the second.

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Speaker 5: Indeed, I agree with what you're saying here. America is

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homogeneous in some sense. We speak English, or most of

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us do. The predominant culture does the elites do. We

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get a lot of stuff. We got to get a

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lot of cheap Chinese stuff from Walmart. We eat bad

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food from the fast food chains. We all know what

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that stuff tastes like. Coca Cola is ubiquitous. Right, There's

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that America. And I'm not denying that. We almost all

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of us drive cars. We can't imagine our lives without them.

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Our landscape is marred by the highways and exit ramps

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and everything that that involves, the parking lots we have.

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We have a degeneracy that we're exporting to the world. Yes, yes,

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I know what what America's opponents are talking about when

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they say these things. If that is all America is

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then we're sunk. I mean, why not kill ourselves or something.

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There's there's nothing really worth worth dying for when it

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comes to McDonald's food, for heaven's sake, and no one

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ever said there was. We've got degenerously, we've got no borders,

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we've got debt our people are sterilizing themselves. I get

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that times are bad, we don't deny that. But what

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is America? And why would anyone love it? I happen

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to believe America is worth loving. I happen to believe

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that there is an awful lot of interest here that

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hundreds of years of settlements have built up distinctive, valuable

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things in this land, things that I happen to love.

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I feel kind of like like Robert Oppenheimer. Do you

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ever hear that story about Oppenheimer? He had some Communist

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ties early in his life. He was a member of

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some kind of communist organization, and it came out during

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the Cold War and there was some congressional investigation. Do

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you know about this?

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Speaker 2: I know about Oppenheimer, but not about this connection to

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carry on.

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Speaker 5: Oh, it's a heartbreak, king and sweet story. It's actually

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a very good story. George Kanan his friend, the diplomat,

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was talking to him about it. Someone, someone suggested to

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Oppenheimer that he should just leave. He should go to

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Europe or some or somewhere where he would be appreciated.

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He shouldn't put up with American communist witch hunts, he

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shouldn't put up with with Congress disrespecting him. And he

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kind of teared up. Allah Jordan Peterson, if you will,

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and he said, God, damn it, I happen to love

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this country. And I kind of feel I kind of

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feel like that with with all the put downs that

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we hear about American now. But we have something else

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to go on here. And this is important. In the

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midst of all of the lockdown hysteria, in the midst

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of all of the vaccine mandates, in the midst of

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the gay the global American empire really lashing out, the

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deep State trying to manipulate US and trying to manipulate Europe,

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Americans have arguably done the most to resist those things.

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They have organized by the tens of millions. These efforts

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have not always been well spent, admittedly, but as far

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as the dissident right goes, a huge number of US

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A disproportionate number of US are American. So my contention

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is there must be something constructive here. You cannot damn

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all of these people to hell. You can't say they

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have no place in the movement because they happen to

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like America, because they happen to be Americans, because it

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may not be right for them to be anywhere else,

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to go and expend their efforts anywhere else. This is

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actually where we belong. This is our patrie right, this

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is our homeland, and we should be allowed to be

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patriotic about it. And I want to qualify that, to

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be patriotic about the United States, I'm not I'm not

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being a nationalist chauvinist when I say that. I'm not

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saying raw rah rah USA. We've got to be the biggest.

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We've got to be the best. We've got to be

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the strongest. We've got to We've got to, as the

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Bush administration official said, we've got to pick up a

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shitty little country every once in a while and throw

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it against the wall, just to show the world that

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we mean business. That's what a Bush administration official was

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quoted as saying on one occasion. That is not what

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I mean that's not my America. As Bill Kaufman said.

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Speaker 2: So one of the core conventions in all of this

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is that the gay was always the destiny of America.

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This is always how it was going to be. And look,

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I realized that, you know, from my confessional heritage is

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a hardcore Calvinist. That might be a little bit, you know,

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a touchy subject for me, right, But do you think

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that that's true, that this was always the way America

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was going to go, the only way it could have happened.

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Speaker 5: I will concede the point that you can you can

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see the roots of these imperial ambitions very early, and

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you could see those those imperial roots even with the

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likes of Thomas Jefferson, which seems unlikely though you can

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kind of quote Jefferson to say almost anything. He's all

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over the place. But even even Thomas Jefferson shares a

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lot with the likes of the Jacobins, for instance. Well, right,

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he's always very radical. But but even.

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Speaker 2: So, Columbia, right, is always shown wearing the that what's

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the name of the She's always shown wearing the beret, isn't.

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Speaker 5: She, right, Yeah, it's like the garb of the French Revolution,

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and it's and it's the Republican Garb. Indeed, so carry on.

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Speaker 2: You were talking about talking about Jefferson.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you can see these, these roots of imperial ambitions

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and and you know, global influence. You can see those

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early and you can see them in many places. But

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this isn't the only thing. This isn't the only vision

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of what America could be or what America means. In fact,

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there were a great many of these we in history.

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We frequently call these things narratives, you know, stories that

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we tell to make sense of the world that we

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live in. A myth, if you will, Okay, it's a

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myth that makes sense of our government, a myth that

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makes sense of our policy goals. But here's my point.

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AA says, the gay is an American myth, the gay

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is an American ideal. We can see this in our history.

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I agree, but I contend strongly it is not the

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only myth, and we have a number of constructive things

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that are alternatives to this. Myths come and go in

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our history, and myths are forgotten, myths are shelved, we

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move on to something else. We have many exams bolts

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of that in our history. But now maybe the perfect

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time for my thesis statement. Although the Gays is every

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bit as bad as AA says it is, I'm willing

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to make that concession, all right. And I'm not on

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board with the American Empire. I don't like it his thesis.

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AA's thesis that this was the destiny of America is

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incorrect and demoralizing, and it's incorrect and it's demoralizing to

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his American allies. And we want to be allied with

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the dissident sphere. I certainly do. The United States was

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colonized by British people, and it became an empire, and

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it became an empire for a time, not so very

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unlike the British Empire. Americans have created good and bad

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political formulas to justify their powers. And these narratives must

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be a place where Americans can find inspiration and not

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to spare it. This is my contention. We have to

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have some constructive vision based on our shared experience in history.

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Speaker 2: So this this does bring up you highlight the British connection,

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you know, to the early American settlers, And obviously I

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have a good amount of British ancestry. I think that

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my earliest ancestors roughly sixteen twenty as an indentured servant

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coming from a proud line of starving dirt farmers. Indeed,

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but there is something to be said for the fact that,

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all right, so fair enough, I agree that we have

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a you know, a strong especially in the early you know,

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like the founding stock Americans were British. But where do

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you kind of, I guess, to a certain degree, like

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draw the line of who is you know, truly American, right,

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because on one hand, right, you have the you know,

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the the Irish, the Germans, you know, the Italians, you know,

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the Swedes, Lithuanians, pollocks, everyone, right, And obviously there were

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waves of that and maybe fair enough the lines about

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nineteen sixty four plus or minus, and that would be

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maybe a better one than others. But it does seem

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to be to be a certain extent kind of an

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arbitrary distinction, because there are fundamentally different types of Americans

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with a different conception of what that nation is.

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Speaker 5: Indeed, and I think that that is important. One of

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the things I do with my history classes is I

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distribute packets and I have my students give presentations about

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different ethnic groups in American history, and I think that

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these stories, these narratives do bring important things to the

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American experience. No American could imagine America without hamburgers and

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hot dogs, for instance, and those come from the German influx.

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No American can imagine America without pizza. Who in the

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world could imagine America without pizza? And that comes from

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the Italians, right, And for that matter, the Chinese food,

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you know, the inevitable American Chinese restaurant, which isn't even Chinese,

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you know, but it's what we call Chinese food. But

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this is the matter, this is where it all comes together.

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We're all speaking English, and if we are to understand

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our own American story, if we're going to understand the

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war for Independence, if we're going to understand our own constitution,

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if we're going to understand the Declaration of Independence, we

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have to be plugged in to the British culture that

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gave all of that birth. So it's not just very

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Anglo Americans like me, and I'm very thoroughly British in

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my heritage, unusually, so both sides. It's my family or

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very Anglo. It's not just me that have the blood

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ties here. It is the third generation Italian American that

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has no cultural memory vitaly at all, has has no

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connection with the language they're speaking English, They've inherited, they've assimilated,

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and now their story is wrapped up in British Americans.

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Speaker 2: So how do you distinguish that from kind of like

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the the Shapiro style civic nationalist or civic nationalism.

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Speaker 5: Well, there you got me. I don't really pay attention

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to what then Shapiro has to say.

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Speaker 2: So that would be the idea that essentially, because America

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is you know, propositional, essentially like by coming here essentially

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you know, either being born on the magic dirt, you know,

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or essentially like saying the pledge of allegiance once you

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know you're magically an American. And I realized that's a

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thoroughly uncharitable way of summarizing this argument. But you know,

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it'll it's close enough for government work. I guess.

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Speaker 5: It matters tremendously how people will identify themselves with this heritage,

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if they see it as their birthright, if they if

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they see like English, the English language, the English heritage,

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the English literature, all all of which are so closely

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wrapped up in the founding stock, the American heritage stock

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if you will, uh, there there are those who will

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be you know, alienated foreign nationals on American soil, and

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and say because they they've got the citizenship that makes them,

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it gives them, it gives them the background knowledge to

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be just as American as anyone else. But that isn't

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actually how it works. Someone who has knowledge of the

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English Civil War and cares about the sides that that

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fought in it, have a deeper knowledge of what's going

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on in American history. Those that know the difference between

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an Anglican and a Baptist and a Puritan, they're going

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to have a much deeper knowledge. Now maybe they are,

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you know, by legacy, by inheritance, they're Greek Orthodox or

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Italian Catholic or something like that, they still have to

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understand those English issues in order to understand America. And

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that may sound particularist. It's harder for some than others.

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You and I, our ancestors go back to the early

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sixteen hundreds. Our ancestors were colonial Americans. For us, I

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really don't think it's all that hard, and I honestly

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do and I know this is a controversial. Take the

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easiest way to explain this is that it is a

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legacy of the blood that's passed down from generation to generation.

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Of course, you can explain it that it's partly contact

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with parents and grandparents who talk about things, who have

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ways of explaining things, who have a kind of oral

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heritage that they pass down. Of course, that's part of it.

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But is it not also in the blood of men,

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as Donald Davidson said, is it something put in a

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book only or also passed down that's actually part of

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our flesh. I think it makes sense to think of

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it that way to some degree, but it doesn't mean.

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It doesn't mean that people with other heritage, bloodlines, people

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with different ancestry, people whose ancestors spoke another language up

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until this generation perhaps cannot claim some some place in

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this society in the United States. It has meant that

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I'm thinking of African American Christians, for instance, all right,

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who up until the Civil War would worship with their

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white neighbors. That that is a very interesting story, and

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it's the story of assimilation. How did African Americans become Christian?

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How did they learn to speak English? And we can

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tell that story about about any any group potentially that

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has joined American society to some degree. There there are

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those that identify, there are those that have assimilated. There

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are those that obey the laws, those that act like citizens.

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There are those that know the backstory to some degree,

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and there are those that don't. And of course that's

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not a good description of citizenship, but we see both

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in America, is is my general point. I'm not trying

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to be contentious.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. So one of the things that

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I think is it's interesting. And obviously Paul is a

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a friend of both of ours. We've met him in

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real life, and you know, I like him a good bit,

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but there is I think a fundamental disagreement among Americans

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essentially on the nature of the empire, right, And this

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really comes down to as kind of everything does in

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American history, right to some degree or another, the Civil War.

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And to me, again, I like paulic a bit, but

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he strikes me as someone and I feel like he

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would probably agree with this, who's essentially pro American empire, right,

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like we will use the American empire to essentially create

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like a pan European imperium, you know, to be to

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lead into the stars. You know, I don't know if

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that's one hundred percent right. But I've talked to him

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fairly recently and that seems like his point, and so

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that is definitely one part of it. But to me,

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the the kind of American tradition that you and I

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are a part of is very firmly anti empire and

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very firmly I guess, localist and decentralized. So can you

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go into that distinction a little bit, kind of that

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that you know the on one hand, the kind of

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like you know, Lincoln Wilson tradition that you know Paul

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to a certain degree is a part of, and then

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maybe where you and I come from.

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Speaker 5: Indeed, yes, I'd be happy to yes with respect to Paul,

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because I know about the heritage that he speaks of.

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I understand where he's coming from. I identify with with

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his antagonists in history. I think part of what we're

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describing here is the conflict between Hamilton and Jefferson. And

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this this began even before the Washington administration, but it

404
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really blew up during the Washington administration. Hamilton worshiped bigness.

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He loved things to be big, he loved things to

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be dynamic. He wanted big banks. He wanted big business,

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he wanted big cities. He wanted American ports open to

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the world, he wanted American influence overseas. Hamilton's model was

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the British Empire, and I love, I love to remind

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my students on this point. It's a good thing to

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look at what works in history and to try to

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imitate it, and Hamilton was no fool. I also like

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to tell my students about Hamilton's views of debt. He's

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he said, a national debt for us, if not excessive,

415
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will be a national blessing. And I like to remind them,

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you know, Hamilton is no dumb cop here. He actually

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knows something about what he's talking about, and he would

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be absolutely appalled to see our levels of debt today.

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But just the same, Jefferson was his antagonist, and I

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really I like to see a little Englander in Jefferson.

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These these are the English dissenters of the imperial project

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of the British Empire, if you will, the ones that

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are content with a with an isolated agrarian Britain, who

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don't know what what the British army is doing in India.

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You know that they they like what they have and

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they want to keep it back in England. When I'm

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looking back at the American legacy, I like to see

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that in Jefferson. I am aware that's not entirely what

429
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he's after, but just the same, Jefferson did more than

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anyone to advance that vision of American affairs. Jefferson wanted

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an agrarian state. He believed that Americans will care about

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politics only if they own property in this land. He

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did not think that a proletarian class could be effective citizens,

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or even citizens at all. Herbert Agar, who is a

435
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Pulitzer Prize winning Jeffersonian an American historian, Herbert Agar said

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Jefferson believed all men should have the vote because all

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men should have property, and for him, those things are

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closely connected. Jefferson's vision of the United States was not

439
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a United States of big cities, not a United States

440
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of big factories, not a United States with any corporations

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at all, and he started a political heritage of small

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property owners that still resonates with Americans today. We have

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we have a Jefferson Monument in Washington, d C. For

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whatever that's worth it, just if nothing else, it shows

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us that vision is something that survived in America to

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a very late date. I think the Jefferson Memorial ironically

447
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was commissioned by FDR.

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Speaker 7: Well.

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Speaker 2: And when you think about it, even among our circles, right,

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like many of us are to a certain degree or

451
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an other kind of like kulux, right, you know, middle class,

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you know, kind of by virtue of the fact that

453
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we are dissidents, right, and we do kind of dissent

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from the prevailing prevailing culture. And I think that so

455
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much of what we've seen over the pandemic is essentially

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a move to essentially muscle that to essentially crush that group, right,

457
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to essentially incentivize everyone to be tied into the state,

458
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to the system, and to me right, this kind of

459
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like tradition of you know, independent small hold you know,

460
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when either it comes to literally farmers, right, or ranchers

461
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or friend tiersman you know, or kind of like the

462
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you know, like the Roman you know, kind of like

463
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farmer warriors or that you know, the actual English yeomen Right,

464
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that's a deep tradition in the West. And I think

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that kind of fosters the type of kind of like

466
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truly like manful independence that is kind of central to

467
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so much of I guess like I guess like the

468
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Western project more broadly.

469
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Speaker 5: Absolutely, and this is one of Richard Weaver's great points.

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Richard Weaver, who was who was a Southerner, a rhetorician,

471
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he was an academic. He wrote a famous book called

472
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Ideas Have Consequences, and this is one of my favorite chapters.

473
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In that particular book, he said, the small property owner

474
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:21,680
has political independence, and small property is distinctly different than

475
00:32:21,759 --> 00:32:27,240
this modern innovation of owning shares in some operation that

476
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:32,039
you've never seen and getting dividends from it or something.

477
00:32:32,799 --> 00:32:39,000
Actually having property is a way to have an unpopular

478
00:32:39,079 --> 00:32:42,079
opinion in the modern world. And this is something that

479
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:49,640
has captured the American imagination. This is a really powerful

480
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:53,640
point in our heritage that we relate to very strongly.

481
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:57,839
Most Americans lived on farms up until World War Two.

482
00:32:58,799 --> 00:33:05,799
This d NATed city dwelling, proletarian American is a recent phenomenon.

483
00:33:07,119 --> 00:33:12,599
And the American independence of living in the country, having

484
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:18,039
one's own business, even farming as a hobby. To remember

485
00:33:18,079 --> 00:33:22,440
that way of life is something that many Americans aspire

486
00:33:22,519 --> 00:33:29,519
to deeply desire. We talk about fleeing the rat race

487
00:33:29,559 --> 00:33:33,119
in the cities Practically everyone I speak to says, oh,

488
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:34,599
I don't want to live in the city. I want

489
00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:37,720
to live in the country. I want to be connected

490
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:41,480
to the land. I hear that from my acquaintance as often.

491
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,880
Perhaps I know I'm hanging out with certain people, But

492
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:50,160
it's a mainstream idea in America just the same. And

493
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,799
this is the thing I wanted to reiterate this. Our

494
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,799
elites are telling us that America is just an idea.

495
00:34:00,119 --> 00:34:04,240
America is nothing organic. America is not something your ancestors

496
00:34:04,279 --> 00:34:09,000
left to. You know, your ancestors were wicked. Our elites

497
00:34:09,039 --> 00:34:13,440
are telling us always that America's mission is to spread

498
00:34:13,639 --> 00:34:19,719
transsexual rights in Romania, all right, and they send ambassadors

499
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:27,760
to for that specific purpose. I understand Americans resist this instinctually,

500
00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:33,639
maybe even forgetting the other narratives that can explain their

501
00:34:33,679 --> 00:34:37,760
position and that they can relate to. And what I

502
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:43,639
don't understand is some of our British friends, who who

503
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:49,360
I love very much. I think of myself unironically as

504
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,199
a colonial. I'm a child of the British Empire in

505
00:34:53,239 --> 00:35:01,599
a way. But them embracing this ideological, degenerate mission as

506
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:07,880
as America's some purpose, and uh that that explains everything

507
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:12,280
we need to know about Americans, or America or all

508
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,119
that America could be. They're they're joining with our worst

509
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:21,119
enemies in saying that. They couldn't possibly mean to do that.

510
00:35:21,159 --> 00:35:24,599
They couldn't possibly mean to demoralize their own American allies

511
00:35:24,679 --> 00:35:28,199
by saying that. Which is why I want to be

512
00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,519
diplomatic and reach out to them and offer them on alternative.

513
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:34,920
This this narrative that we just that we just talked

514
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:40,719
about the narrative of Jefferson and Hamilton, Hamilton the imperialist booster,

515
00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:45,079
the big business guy, versus Jefferson, who has this small

516
00:35:45,199 --> 00:35:48,880
vision of an agrarian America. It's a it's a more

517
00:35:49,559 --> 00:35:56,000
a more humble vision, certainly more independent, right, independent Americans

518
00:35:57,199 --> 00:36:00,199
who are not dependent on on a big government to

519
00:36:00,239 --> 00:36:03,840
regulate their lives, not dependent on a big business to

520
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,400
employ them. They aren't paying monthly payments to the banks

521
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:12,320
for you know, capital that they've got on loan out.

522
00:36:13,039 --> 00:36:16,320
That's Jefferson's vision and independent America, and that's a compelling

523
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,760
vision for us. It's one of our biggest alternative visions

524
00:36:19,800 --> 00:36:21,719
to what we have right now, and it's one that's

525
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:27,199
still alive. Another vision I wanted to bring up was

526
00:36:27,199 --> 00:36:30,239
that of the imperialists of the turn of the century

527
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:35,000
and the anti imperialists. Have you done much reading on

528
00:36:35,039 --> 00:36:37,119
this subject? Do you know these guys?

529
00:36:38,679 --> 00:36:41,840
Speaker 2: You remember the very broadest strokes. I know a few names,

530
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,559
but not enough to be, you know, conversant.

531
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:49,199
Speaker 5: They they really only got started, well, the anti imperialists

532
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:53,280
really only got started after the Spanish American War, which

533
00:36:53,559 --> 00:36:57,599
blindsided them, Like Americans really had no idea what was

534
00:36:57,639 --> 00:37:01,079
going on. They were, they were dumbfounded by the media.

535
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,079
It was like a syop of the media of the time.

536
00:37:05,599 --> 00:37:10,280
Remember the main they blamed the Spanish for blowing up

537
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:15,639
the battleship Maine in the harbor of Havana, Cuba, when

538
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:17,800
in fact the Spanish didn't have anything to do with it.

539
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,679
Speaker 2: Yeah, suspicious explosions leading to a military intervention is a

540
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,400
time honored American tradition, it.

541
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 5: Seems, indeed, and in this case it's perhaps the most

542
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:34,920
successful instance of that, because it meant suddenly the United

543
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,320
States had a global empire. This is how we got

544
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,840
Puerto Rico, This is how we started our long and

545
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:48,360
dreadful relationship with the Caribbean States and the Central American

546
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:54,280
states where we're just knocking over their governments year after year,

547
00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:59,400
sending the Marines to run the custom house in Haiti

548
00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:04,800
and the Miminican Republic and Cuba and other places. These

549
00:38:05,039 --> 00:38:10,400
these countries are not sovereign in any sense, but so

550
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,159
so on the one side, you've got you've got the

551
00:38:12,199 --> 00:38:18,880
imperialist camp, which includes people like Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow Wilson said,

552
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:24,280
the idea of America is to serve humanity. And and

553
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,000
it's like, oh, well, that's awful big and sounds so nice,

554
00:38:28,079 --> 00:38:33,239
but in fact it involves like sending the Marines to

555
00:38:33,360 --> 00:38:37,440
do the dirty work of big American banks who've loaned

556
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,199
Haiti a bunch of money and they're going to get

557
00:38:40,199 --> 00:38:46,079
it back with interest. William McKinley, the president at the

558
00:38:46,119 --> 00:38:49,280
time of the Spanish American War, he said the conquest

559
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:54,559
was for humanity's sake. He said that we wanted to

560
00:38:54,800 --> 00:39:01,679
uplift and civilize and christianize these these uh lesser people's

561
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:06,800
around the world, especially the Filipinos. No one bothered to

562
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:10,920
tell McKinley that they were Roman Catholic or mostly Roman

563
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,199
Catholic at the time, but that may not have mattered

564
00:39:14,199 --> 00:39:16,480
to McKinley. He was, he was speaking to a very

565
00:39:16,519 --> 00:39:17,480
Protestant audience.

566
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,440
Speaker 2: What's interesting to me because obviously there were a lot

567
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:28,519
of nine eleven retrospectives and what kind of came across

568
00:39:28,559 --> 00:39:30,599
because I don't remember nine to eleven I was really young.

569
00:39:32,119 --> 00:39:34,360
Is that kind of the face of the War on

570
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:38,480
Terror changed, But throughout the whole thing it was clad

571
00:39:38,519 --> 00:39:41,920
in very much this kind of like high handed, like

572
00:39:42,079 --> 00:39:45,239
moralistic tone the entire time, you know, much the same

573
00:39:45,239 --> 00:39:48,400
way that you know, the the initial like wars of

574
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,920
the American Empire were about, you know, christianizing the savages.

575
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:55,639
You know, at first it was you know, our they

576
00:39:55,639 --> 00:39:57,840
hate our freedom, you know, kind of like all the

577
00:39:57,920 --> 00:40:00,760
endless like George Bushism's you know, and then currently, right,

578
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:02,679
we're still in the same wards. But now it's about

579
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,440
you know, ensuring that that girls can read. You know.

580
00:40:05,519 --> 00:40:08,119
So the state religion, you know, as it is, has

581
00:40:08,679 --> 00:40:11,599
changed very much, but the core impulse is not.

582
00:40:13,239 --> 00:40:20,159
Speaker 5: Yeah, I agree, it's a spreading cultural values sort of thing.

583
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:24,440
It was in McKinley's day and it is now. But

584
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:30,159
I brought it up not because we can see the correspondents,

585
00:40:30,199 --> 00:40:36,239
but because it always had an opposition, and the opposition

586
00:40:36,320 --> 00:40:40,400
included a lot of unlikely people. There were a bunch

587
00:40:40,519 --> 00:40:46,239
of Civil War era Republicans who came out against this,

588
00:40:46,719 --> 00:40:49,320
which is really interesting because these are the people running

589
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:53,760
reconstruction in the American South. One of them was George

590
00:40:53,800 --> 00:40:57,840
Horror of Massachusetts, who was a senator from Massachusetts, and

591
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:03,880
yes his name was Horror, just Hoar, I believe. But

592
00:41:04,159 --> 00:41:06,880
he was an anti imperialist. He got and made several

593
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:11,320
speeches against the colonization of the Philippines, said the Filipinos

594
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:15,639
should be following the declaration of independence, the Filipinos should

595
00:41:15,639 --> 00:41:19,280
be allowed to choose their own destiny. But another of

596
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:23,199
Mark Twain, is another one of the famous anti imperialists,

597
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,199
and he was maybe the most eloquent of the bunch.

598
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,400
He gave us a famous version of the Battle Hymn

599
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,360
of the Republic, which you ought to look up. It's

600
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:36,679
one of the most amusing things he wrote on the

601
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:41,320
anti imperialist vein. But my favorite is General Smedley Butler

602
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:44,840
of the United States Marine Corps, who won the Medal

603
00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:50,000
of Honor twice, and he came out strongly against these

604
00:41:50,719 --> 00:41:56,400
imperialist projects in Central America and elsewhere. He said it

605
00:41:56,480 --> 00:42:00,239
was a racket. He said, famously, war is a rat backet.

606
00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:04,679
And he claimed that he was sent on all the

607
00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:09,519
campaigns he went on. He went to China during the

608
00:42:09,519 --> 00:42:14,039
Boxer Rebellion, for instance, he went to the Philippines, he

609
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:19,119
went to Nicaragua, he went to Haiti and Cuba. And

610
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:23,760
he claimed that most of his missions involved securing the

611
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:30,480
collateral of Wall Street banks and collecting their profits.

612
00:42:32,199 --> 00:42:34,639
Speaker 2: So it's interesting you bring that up because much is

613
00:42:34,679 --> 00:42:38,519
made of Eisenhower's farewell address, right, and look, it's a

614
00:42:38,519 --> 00:42:40,280
good speech, it's you know, it's important, and I think

615
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:43,440
it's to a certain degree he's onto something. But you

616
00:42:43,559 --> 00:42:46,280
gave me a book last time. I saw you North

617
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:51,320
against South. Yes, and it's quite good as someone who's

618
00:42:51,559 --> 00:42:54,719
you know, as kind of a very rudimentary understanding of

619
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:57,519
the Civil War. But what I found especially interesting in

620
00:42:57,559 --> 00:43:01,239
it is that that I guess, like the amount of

621
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,280
sway that the financial industry has had as it relates

622
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,920
to kind of like US military endeavors, has always been there.

623
00:43:08,199 --> 00:43:10,199
So a large section of the book, which is well

624
00:43:10,199 --> 00:43:11,920
worth your time. It's you know, a little bit rare,

625
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:14,280
but not too hard to find for anyone in Chatty

626
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:17,679
is interested essentially deals with the immense amount of corruption

627
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:21,360
in the in the Lincoln government, and I mean all

628
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,119
the way down to you know, much like the same

629
00:43:23,159 --> 00:43:25,679
system of government contractors. You know, we kind of like

630
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:28,400
know and loved today that was very much alive that

631
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:30,840
And so it's odd because on one hand you kind

632
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:36,360
of have this the same like urge to you know,

633
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,760
private enterprise, which is in many ways kind of like

634
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,480
essential to I guess kind of like the yeoman you know,

635
00:43:42,519 --> 00:43:45,239
the yeoman farmer, the you know, the homesteader, that archetype

636
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:48,679
that we spoke about earlier. In a certain degree, you know,

637
00:43:48,679 --> 00:43:50,639
they're kind of the same thing that doomed us. You know,

638
00:43:50,679 --> 00:43:53,199
it's like we almost we formed that, we forged the

639
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,039
change for our own risks, if you see what I mean.

640
00:43:55,599 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, And and that is something that the Hamiltonian administrations,

641
00:44:02,559 --> 00:44:07,280
like Lincoln's, have always had as a major mark against them.

642
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:12,480
Whenever the government is handing out huge contracts for patronage,

643
00:44:13,199 --> 00:44:17,079
it attracts a stupendous amount of corruption. And it was

644
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:23,559
following the Lincoln administration, the reconstruction governments like the Grant administration,

645
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,440
it was from that time that we spawned the term

646
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:38,039
lobbyist for the people that were looking for government contracts,

647
00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:42,440
the people that were willing to stuff the pockets of

648
00:44:42,599 --> 00:44:47,199
congressmen who were willing to pass them those government contracts.

649
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,400
They were waiting in the lobbies, waiting to give the

650
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,199
congressman rich gifts and take them off to dinner. That's

651
00:44:56,199 --> 00:44:59,360
what lobbyists do to get the ears of the congressmen

652
00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:02,480
and to get some of that sweet government money.

653
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:07,719
Speaker 2: So I'm curious, and I realized this might be I

654
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,800
don't mean to, you know, put you in a tough

655
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,559
spot here, but I think we pretty much share the

656
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,360
you know, the diagnosis of America and American culture right

657
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,440
like it's looking a bit grim, you know, both on

658
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:25,840
the empire frontier and also just like I mean, yeah,

659
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,519
I think all of us look at you know, Lezo

660
00:45:28,599 --> 00:45:31,559
paying James Madison's flute, and kind of we feel the

661
00:45:31,599 --> 00:45:35,119
same feelings. So what is the Is there some kind

662
00:45:35,159 --> 00:45:37,199
of like positive vision out of this? Is there some

663
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,039
way that we get out of this or is this

664
00:45:39,119 --> 00:45:41,519
all just kind of like some golden past we can

665
00:45:41,599 --> 00:45:42,760
kind of fondly look back on.

666
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:47,039
Speaker 5: I think there is a positive vision. And I realized

667
00:45:47,079 --> 00:45:50,920
that this is one of AA's regular talking points as well.

668
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,800
He does not like the positive vision. He prefers to

669
00:45:56,159 --> 00:45:58,840
unite around clearing them all out.

670
00:45:59,559 --> 00:45:59,760
Speaker 1: Well.

671
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,119
Speaker 5: I I agree that is a point on which we

672
00:46:02,199 --> 00:46:09,119
can unite. But being an American, I need a constructive

673
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:17,440
story about my country. And as Ryan turnip Seed said recently,

674
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:22,760
if we don't have any idea what comes next, what

675
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,280
comes next could very well be worse. I can think

676
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:31,480
of a great many examples of this. The Russian regime

677
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:35,079
was doing very badly and it seemed like things couldn't

678
00:46:35,119 --> 00:46:37,199
go on, and eventually they didn't go on, and they

679
00:46:37,199 --> 00:46:43,079
got the Bolsheviks. You could look at the ancient regime

680
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:46,079
in France and things were going badly, and what did

681
00:46:46,119 --> 00:46:49,440
they get? They got Rospierre, you know. And I don't

682
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,639
want to see reigns of terror in my country. So

683
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:56,639
I need a positive vision. Americans do need a positive vision,

684
00:46:56,639 --> 00:47:00,960
and that is essentially my point in my thesis. We

685
00:47:01,039 --> 00:47:04,039
have to look back on our history and we have

686
00:47:04,119 --> 00:47:08,360
to see things worth believing it. We have to see

687
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:12,880
things worth loving. This land is not going to get

688
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:17,960
any better if someone doesn't love it. Now, I will contend,

689
00:47:18,079 --> 00:47:21,239
and this is where I want to make another concession.

690
00:47:23,599 --> 00:47:28,480
I would be very happy to see Washington d c emptied.

691
00:47:29,920 --> 00:47:33,880
I would be very happy to see this continent balkanized.

692
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,679
I think that would be the best thing to happen

693
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:42,440
to it. Rather like our British friends say, they hope

694
00:47:42,440 --> 00:47:48,000
that American influence in Europe will subside and allow the

695
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:52,880
nations of Europe to find themselves and govern themselves once again,

696
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:56,960
to find their own independent voices once again. That is

697
00:47:57,039 --> 00:48:02,079
my hope for the peoples of this big continent over here.

698
00:48:02,559 --> 00:48:07,000
We have a great many regions and distinctive peoples over here.

699
00:48:08,800 --> 00:48:12,599
They have also been the targets of the violence and

700
00:48:12,679 --> 00:48:17,760
the social engineering of the gay and this this arguably

701
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:27,320
started before the Civil War. The the hymn of the Gay,

702
00:48:27,440 --> 00:48:31,719
you could, you could say, the song that you can

703
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,599
well imagine them singing is the battle Hymn of the Republic,

704
00:48:34,639 --> 00:48:40,039
which is a Civil war song. It it imagines the

705
00:48:40,159 --> 00:48:46,320
armies of the Federal Union as the armies of God himself,

706
00:48:46,559 --> 00:48:51,599
and they are out to to h stamp out the

707
00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:54,840
grapes of wrath on the earth. They are out to

708
00:48:55,559 --> 00:48:59,639
do away with evil. They are going to bring up

709
00:49:00,559 --> 00:49:06,000
men before the judgment seat This is all very apocalyptic imagery.

710
00:49:06,639 --> 00:49:11,119
And of course the chorus is glory, glory, hallelujah. Our

711
00:49:11,199 --> 00:49:14,440
God is marching on. But what God is that? It's

712
00:49:14,559 --> 00:49:17,679
the American government that has taken the place of God.

713
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:21,599
The actions of the American government are now a pseudo religion,

714
00:49:21,639 --> 00:49:28,360
a false religion. The alternative I see to that is

715
00:49:28,559 --> 00:49:34,840
also a song, and it's Dixie. It's a love of

716
00:49:34,880 --> 00:49:39,079
the land that you belong to. And what does Dixie say?

717
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:42,159
This is one of the most famous songs to come

718
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:44,559
from America, and it's not a song. It's not a

719
00:49:44,639 --> 00:49:49,719
vision that should threaten anyone, least of all Americans. This

720
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:54,440
should be a song Americans love and know. I happen

721
00:49:54,519 --> 00:49:57,719
to have a summer job. I was a Civil War

722
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,480
tour guide on a bus and I had had lots

723
00:50:02,519 --> 00:50:05,440
of Boomers from all over the country, and I liked

724
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:09,360
them very much, and they're the sorts of people that

725
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,840
can still appreciate this sort of thing. I would sing

726
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:14,239
the Battle Hymn the Republic to them in the midst

727
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:16,599
of my Civil War tour, and I also would sing

728
00:50:16,639 --> 00:50:19,400
Dixie to them, and I talked to them a bit

729
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:24,039
about both, and they loved them. Both, and that was

730
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:28,320
so reassuring to see. When I sing Dixie for my students,

731
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:32,119
they think I'm being controversial, and that shouldn't be the case.

732
00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:37,320
What is Dixie. Dixie is like the country music that

733
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,960
is so famous as a as an export from the

734
00:50:41,079 --> 00:50:44,599
United States. Some of it's better than others, admittedly, But

735
00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:48,360
Dixie is a song about loving your home because it's yours.

736
00:50:51,079 --> 00:50:55,039
It's where we live and die in Dixie Land, where

737
00:50:55,039 --> 00:50:58,920
I was born. Early on one frosty morning, look Away,

738
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:02,920
look Away, look Away, Dixie Land. I wish I was

739
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,400
in Dixie to live and die in Dixie. It's about

740
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:11,000
human life, right. We're born in a place, we belong

741
00:51:11,119 --> 00:51:14,480
to that place, that place belongs to us. We love

742
00:51:14,519 --> 00:51:17,679
it because it's ours, not because it's perfect, not because

743
00:51:17,679 --> 00:51:21,480
it's big, not because it's wealthy, not because Starbucks is

744
00:51:21,519 --> 00:51:25,119
better than whatever other coffee you might drink. That's not

745
00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:28,679
why we love America. We love America because it's ours,

746
00:51:30,519 --> 00:51:33,360
and we need to have a positive vision of it.

747
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,199
We need to have a vision of its health, we

748
00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:38,800
need to have a vision of its happiness. We need

749
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,800
to embody that vision in our own lives and ambitions.

750
00:51:42,079 --> 00:51:46,400
That's my contention here. That's ultimately the point of my thesis,

751
00:51:47,639 --> 00:51:50,719
and I'd be happy to see Americans realize that vision

752
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:57,400
one hundred different ways without the gay forcing their own

753
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,039
corrupt degeneracy on us.

754
00:52:02,159 --> 00:52:05,480
Speaker 2: It's interesting because to a certain degree, right there is

755
00:52:05,559 --> 00:52:11,840
this this tension kind of running through America, right because

756
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:15,000
at one hand, right America is both you know, hearth

757
00:52:15,039 --> 00:52:19,119
and home, you know what, like my ancestors when they

758
00:52:19,119 --> 00:52:22,519
got off the boat, it was what two hundred miles

759
00:52:22,519 --> 00:52:25,119
from where I live now, you know, and fair enough

760
00:52:25,119 --> 00:52:26,960
there's a little bit of French mixed in too, but

761
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:28,760
you know, there's a whole lot of me that's been

762
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:31,360
here forever. And I get that, and that's very much

763
00:52:31,519 --> 00:52:35,360
quinet essentially America. But as we were talking before, there

764
00:52:35,400 --> 00:52:40,239
is something kind of certain cultures have almost like potemic symbols,

765
00:52:40,679 --> 00:52:43,119
right like the for the Chinese, it's the wall, for

766
00:52:43,239 --> 00:52:45,880
the Russians, it's the open plane. And I think that

767
00:52:45,920 --> 00:52:49,280
there's something to be said for there's kind of a

768
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:53,400
a wanderlust to being America, right, like it's the open road.

769
00:52:54,159 --> 00:52:56,400
And I live that out myself, like I'm both very

770
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,760
much a particularist and I get it, like I love,

771
00:53:00,000 --> 00:53:01,800
I love where I live, but also like I get

772
00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:05,639
the get this kind of just urge to drive, you know,

773
00:53:05,679 --> 00:53:09,079
And I've driven, you know, a thousand miles to your place,

774
00:53:09,159 --> 00:53:13,079
you know, once or twice already. And how do you

775
00:53:13,159 --> 00:53:14,840
kind of square that circle of that kind of like

776
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:19,400
almost baseline kind of like contradiction in the American spirit.

777
00:53:21,199 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 5: I think that it's undeniably part of us, the urge

778
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:33,519
to wander, the urge to go west. As Robert Penwarren

779
00:53:33,679 --> 00:53:40,239
says in Jack Burden's novel, right west is where we

780
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:44,320
all go someday. It's where we go when we hear

781
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:48,079
there's gold in them, they're hills. It's where we go

782
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:50,440
to grow up with the country. It's where we go

783
00:53:50,599 --> 00:53:54,800
in our old age, or or it's just where we go. Right.

784
00:53:55,159 --> 00:53:59,199
That's a very American thing. And I feel that that

785
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,480
as well, Like I really want to go, I really

786
00:54:03,519 --> 00:54:07,800
want to go and see. I want to get up

787
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,679
and I want to drive. And I wonder if the

788
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:17,599
car is the American symbol in Spingler sense. It wouldn't

789
00:54:17,599 --> 00:54:20,760
be a bad choice for that, I think, And that's

790
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:26,320
both both good and bad for us, I think. But

791
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:29,559
this is also part of my point these narratives that

792
00:54:29,639 --> 00:54:35,639
I've been talking about, the Hamiltonians and Jefersonians, the Lincolnites

793
00:54:35,679 --> 00:54:41,480
and the Southerners, the imperialists and anti imperialists. There's good

794
00:54:41,519 --> 00:54:44,960
and bad in these things, Like none of them are

795
00:54:45,079 --> 00:54:47,360
all that we want them to be, but all of

796
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:52,360
them are us, all right. They're part of our legacy

797
00:54:52,960 --> 00:54:56,360
when we think about America and what America has been,

798
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,159
and what America has stood for and aspired to and

799
00:55:00,239 --> 00:55:03,360
things like that, and in some abstract sense, it's all

800
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:08,679
of those things in a really spooky way. America is

801
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:14,599
Rosie O'Donnell and Jerry Folwell, and I know this is

802
00:55:14,639 --> 00:55:21,599
just just preposterous. America is Trump and Biden. This is

803
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,880
really strange, and you know, it kind of shows how

804
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:31,559
far we've come. Henry Adams said, if you look at

805
00:55:31,559 --> 00:55:37,679
the progression of presidents from Washington to Grant, then it's

806
00:55:37,800 --> 00:55:43,320
enough to disprove Darwin's theory of evolution. This is a

807
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:48,559
really wild thing to say. How many people would include

808
00:55:48,599 --> 00:55:52,159
Lincoln in that lineup? Imagine Lincoln is in that lineup.

809
00:55:52,480 --> 00:55:57,400
Henry Adams certainly did put Lincoln in that lineup. But

810
00:55:58,400 --> 00:56:00,719
just the same we have good and bad narratives. Some

811
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:03,239
of them are better, some of them are worse. But

812
00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:08,360
it's us that is our legacy. We need to be

813
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,159
okay with that. It's kind of looking like looking in

814
00:56:11,199 --> 00:56:15,400
the mirror and seeing an ugly worn out phase, but

815
00:56:15,519 --> 00:56:19,199
you know it's yours right well, And.

816
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,760
Speaker 2: This is something that I think that the South Africans

817
00:56:23,079 --> 00:56:29,679
get so conscious. Carocle and Robert Diagen, we're both on

818
00:56:29,920 --> 00:56:33,559
Pete quanonas recently they've been on Kashoota. Their coshudo appearance

819
00:56:33,599 --> 00:56:35,760
is good. They're just solid all around guys. I can't

820
00:56:35,760 --> 00:56:39,480
recommend it enough, but but they speak often about this

821
00:56:39,679 --> 00:56:42,719
essentially like well, okay, like let's say what you will

822
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,920
about America, but it's better than South Africa, you know,

823
00:56:47,000 --> 00:56:49,559
like we don't have And I don't mean to put

824
00:56:49,559 --> 00:56:51,719
them down. I just mean that the level of problems

825
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,000
that they have are fundamentally different than ours. You know,

826
00:56:54,039 --> 00:56:56,800
it's kind of like Baser levels of the hierarchy of needs.

827
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:01,599
But in the or you get essentially that there is

828
00:57:02,559 --> 00:57:05,280
there is something to a place being yours. You know,

829
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:08,639
in a place does it become lovely, It doesn't become

830
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,599
kind of like worth dying for unless someone is essentially

831
00:57:12,639 --> 00:57:15,639
willing to kind of put in the blood, sweat and tears,

832
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:18,880
you know. And I think that the negative side of that,

833
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:21,519
like oh well, just hit the open road. You know,

834
00:57:21,599 --> 00:57:23,719
things got rough, let's go out, let's head out of town,

835
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:28,000
is essentially this like idea of always kind of like

836
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:30,840
eternally searching for a greener pasture. You know, in the

837
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,280
moment that something kind of like comes into your hometown,

838
00:57:33,360 --> 00:57:35,239
and you know, it makes things a little bit inconvenient.

839
00:57:35,320 --> 00:57:37,679
It's like, all right, well, we're headed off to Austin,

840
00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:39,639
or we're headed off to Atlanta, or we're headed off

841
00:57:39,639 --> 00:57:41,719
to you know, whatever the next big city is to,

842
00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:45,519
you know, make it big and look like obviously. There's

843
00:57:45,519 --> 00:57:49,079
a certain amount of time when, you know, when God says, hey, Abraham,

844
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:52,920
you've been living in your dad's proverbial basement your entire life. Leave.

845
00:57:53,559 --> 00:57:55,880
You know, there's a time when you know, Jesus and

846
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,840
his family had had to flee to Egypt. I'm not

847
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,760
denying that, right, there's a time to pick up your

848
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:04,199
bedroll and go. But I think that there is a

849
00:58:04,239 --> 00:58:06,440
negative side of that in America, which leaves this kind

850
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:13,920
of like disposable everything. Everything is just you know, designed

851
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:16,760
to be essentially like packed into a suitcase, and then

852
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:18,599
all of a sudden you're a you know, a new

853
00:58:18,599 --> 00:58:20,239
man in a new city.

854
00:58:20,719 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 5: The waste of it is deeply disturbing. There are entire

855
00:58:24,639 --> 00:58:29,440
cities that are literally built to be thrown away in

856
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:33,039
this country. And that's one of the things that that

857
00:58:33,119 --> 00:58:40,440
strikes us so strongly about visiting Italy, say, or Germany.

858
00:58:40,599 --> 00:58:43,800
We see these old, old towns that have been there

859
00:58:43,840 --> 00:58:47,880
for so long, and they are not built to be

860
00:58:48,679 --> 00:58:52,239
thrown away. The buildings, many of them, you know, the

861
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,000
older the older generations of buildings, just because those people

862
00:58:55,039 --> 00:58:57,960
have been there for so long, are built to last

863
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:02,400
for hundreds of years. And you can still find that

864
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:07,480
in America today, in the older cores of cities where

865
00:59:07,480 --> 00:59:12,440
the houses are still worth renovating. Right. But I agree

866
00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:18,239
with what you're saying very much. Americans. Americans were diagnosed

867
00:59:18,280 --> 00:59:23,079
by Wendelberry at one point. Wendeleberry, the essayist and poet.

868
00:59:23,400 --> 00:59:27,400
He said that Americans fall into two categories. They are

869
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:32,519
movers or stickers, or that he might have said boomers

870
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:37,679
in the sense that they go from boom to boom,

871
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:40,440
or they or they stick around no matter what the

872
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:43,440
fortunes are from the place. And we see that with

873
00:59:43,599 --> 00:59:49,280
the major American cities these days, where, in particular, to

874
00:59:49,000 --> 00:59:52,559
be to be quite frank about it, the white populations

875
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:58,559
have abandoned their institutions. They've abandoned their old churches, their

876
00:59:58,639 --> 01:00:04,800
ancestral materies, they've abandoned their family homes, they've abandoned the

877
01:00:04,840 --> 01:00:09,159
businesses that they've built in those old legacy American cities,

878
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:15,159
and they've abandoned them to the underclass, or they've abandoned

879
01:00:15,199 --> 01:00:20,840
them to the recent immigrants, and they've gone on, they've

880
01:00:20,920 --> 01:00:25,079
gone away to the suburbs. Right. I can think of

881
01:00:25,119 --> 01:00:28,559
so many dichotomies of the old city that you've heard

882
01:00:28,559 --> 01:00:33,199
about and then the wealthy, overwhelmingly white suburb that you've

883
01:00:33,239 --> 01:00:35,519
never heard about. And that's where the core of that

884
01:00:35,599 --> 01:00:39,000
old city moved to. Right. They're still adjacent to where

885
01:00:39,039 --> 01:00:43,239
they're from, but they didn't stick around. And you know,

886
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,480
the phenomenon of white flight is a good one to examine,

887
01:00:47,599 --> 01:00:49,840
and ultimately it seems to me to just be a

888
01:00:49,920 --> 01:00:53,280
lack of courage. But we know the institutions are all

889
01:00:53,280 --> 01:00:55,320
set against them. We know the government itself has set

890
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,480
very much against them, and that's a story to tell.

891
01:01:00,159 --> 01:01:03,880
But the American way is frequently to leave the troubles

892
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:10,239
and go somewhere else. I also relate very much to

893
01:01:10,280 --> 01:01:14,159
what you're talking about with our South African friends, who

894
01:01:14,360 --> 01:01:19,039
I also enjoy very much listening to. And this is

895
01:01:19,039 --> 01:01:23,000
another point in which I suppose I'll differ from Paul

896
01:01:23,039 --> 01:01:26,360
Fahrenheit at least what I know about Paul's position, which

897
01:01:26,400 --> 01:01:29,920
I want to be clear, I'm not entirely clear about,

898
01:01:30,360 --> 01:01:32,679
and I'm sure that he could clarify it.

899
01:01:33,119 --> 01:01:38,480
Speaker 7: But are you a tenant or landlord? You need to

900
01:01:38,519 --> 01:01:41,599
be aware that rental laws are changing to give tenants

901
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:46,840
stronger protections and provide certainty for landlords. For new tenancies.

902
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,400
From March first, twenty twenty six, most tenants will benefit

903
01:01:50,440 --> 01:01:54,000
from a minimum six year tenancy under a new national

904
01:01:54,079 --> 01:01:56,679
system of rent control. There are limits on how much

905
01:01:56,719 --> 01:02:01,000
rent can increase and when. For existing tenancies, nothing changes

906
01:02:01,119 --> 01:02:04,559
until a new tenancy begins. Find out more about the

907
01:02:04,599 --> 01:02:09,159
phased introduction of these changes at RTB dota E from

908
01:02:09,199 --> 01:02:10,800
the Residential Tendencies Board.

909
01:02:14,639 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 5: I see the future of European descended peoples here in

910
01:02:20,039 --> 01:02:26,079
the United States, White Americans as a dwindling one demographically,

911
01:02:27,480 --> 01:02:29,880
with the southern border wide open the way that it

912
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:33,400
is two million people in the last couple of years,

913
01:02:35,000 --> 01:02:38,719
we are being deluded out of our own inheritance extremely

914
01:02:38,800 --> 01:02:47,000
quickly at this point. And I'm saying it with I'm

915
01:02:47,039 --> 01:02:51,239
trying to embrace the kind of realism with that admission,

916
01:02:53,519 --> 01:02:56,679
I imagine we have an awful lot to learn from

917
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:01,440
our South African friends about how to in an increasingly

918
01:03:01,519 --> 01:03:10,679
dysfunctional society. But as I said before, being the heritage

919
01:03:10,719 --> 01:03:14,159
peoples of the United States means that we have a

920
01:03:14,239 --> 01:03:19,960
lot of insider knowledge, and we have the examples of

921
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:26,599
so many other oppressed minorities, specifically targeted minorities in history,

922
01:03:27,519 --> 01:03:33,400
that nevertheless were disproportionately prosperous in their countries. I'm thinking

923
01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:38,199
of the Christian minorities and the Ottoman Empire, for instance,

924
01:03:38,239 --> 01:03:43,679
who in like nineteen hundred they owned like over seventy

925
01:03:43,760 --> 01:03:47,519
five percent of the property in Constantinople, you know, and

926
01:03:47,599 --> 01:03:50,559
they were a small part of the population, but they

927
01:03:50,559 --> 01:03:53,719
did extremely well. And this was in spite of the

928
01:03:53,800 --> 01:03:57,360
special taxes that only Christian Greeks had to pay. This

929
01:03:57,519 --> 01:04:00,239
was in spite of the Janis saries like take king

930
01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:03,239
away their eldest male sons from them as a form

931
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:08,599
of taxing. They still did ridiculously well in the Ottoman Empire,

932
01:04:08,760 --> 01:04:15,280
and they lived rather peaceably. That's an interesting story to tell,

933
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,039
and perhaps eventually we'll end up telling stories like that

934
01:04:19,079 --> 01:04:23,840
to ourselves, will be like the Greeks of the Byzantine Empire,

935
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:29,159
you know, telling stories about ourselves under the authority of

936
01:04:29,199 --> 01:04:34,440
the Ottoman sultans.

937
01:04:34,199 --> 01:04:36,559
Speaker 2: That's that's an interesting future you describe, and it's actually

938
01:04:36,559 --> 01:04:39,519
one I've kind of thought about that I almost and

939
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:44,639
this has I don't mean this to be misconstrued. I

940
01:04:44,719 --> 01:04:50,760
almost wonder if I almost wonder if minority status would

941
01:04:53,079 --> 01:04:55,440
this is delicate, I almost wonder if it would be better,

942
01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:59,320
just because it kind of it forces a type of

943
01:05:00,639 --> 01:05:02,719
a group awareness that I think it is all too

944
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:09,960
easy to easy to kind of take, all too easy

945
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,559
to sorry, And this is I'm being a little bit

946
01:05:13,599 --> 01:05:15,519
delicate here, for both the sakes of YouTube and to

947
01:05:15,800 --> 01:05:18,800
say explicitly what I mean. I think that for kind

948
01:05:18,840 --> 01:05:21,239
of legacy Americans, it has been all too easy to

949
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,679
kind of just naively assume that while everyone thinks about

950
01:05:24,719 --> 01:05:26,679
things the way we do, you know, when we were

951
01:05:26,960 --> 01:05:30,079
ninety eighty seventy percent of America, but I think that

952
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:33,119
when that becomes, you know, twenty or thirty percent, you

953
01:05:33,199 --> 01:05:35,719
have to act much more deliberately. And that might not

954
01:05:35,719 --> 01:05:38,360
be the worst thing about it.

955
01:05:38,360 --> 01:05:45,920
Speaker 5: It would give us a tragic sense of hard limits,

956
01:05:46,039 --> 01:05:51,639
and that is certainly going to be painful. Realizing one's

957
01:05:51,719 --> 01:05:59,719
limits in Greek tragedy is always a painful experience. But

958
01:06:00,039 --> 01:06:03,360
we need to be worthy of that kind of experience.

959
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:07,760
We need to be noble, We need to endure that

960
01:06:10,199 --> 01:06:15,280
a great number of white Americans in particular are not

961
01:06:15,639 --> 01:06:19,920
enduring it. Well. We know what's going on, especially in

962
01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:26,840
rural white America. We read about this, and it's really devastating.

963
01:06:27,079 --> 01:06:31,480
The drug abuse is extremely high, the rates of suicide

964
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:39,760
are climbing. This is very disturbing stuff, and I cannot

965
01:06:40,159 --> 01:06:45,760
help but relate that to the decline of legacy America. Generally,

966
01:06:46,519 --> 01:06:50,800
these people also see it. It causes many to despair,

967
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:57,280
and once again I return to my point, this can

968
01:06:57,519 --> 01:07:00,159
be part of our conclusion. We've been going on for

969
01:07:00,159 --> 01:07:00,519
an hour.

970
01:07:00,599 --> 01:07:01,559
Speaker 2: I suppose.

971
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:07,559
Speaker 5: My point is that we need stories that are not despairing,

972
01:07:09,119 --> 01:07:14,679
telling people that the project of their ancestors is culminating

973
01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:19,320
and giving it all away to transsexual activists, and whoever

974
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:25,239
happens to cross the Rio Grande is despair and it's

975
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:34,199
not true. Also, it's not true. Let's wait. We can

976
01:07:34,280 --> 01:07:37,360
seek information on this point, but let's find it in

977
01:07:37,360 --> 01:07:43,480
the preamble of the constitution. We're establishing the government with

978
01:07:43,599 --> 01:07:51,679
the Philadelphia Constitution, and the federalists said, we're doing this

979
01:07:51,880 --> 01:07:59,400
for ourselves and our posterity. There's nothing in there about immigrants. Now,

980
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:01,719
that ended up being part of the American story, and

981
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,440
that's a complex story of how immigration became so deeply

982
01:08:06,519 --> 01:08:10,199
wrapped up in our idea of America. It's another narrative,

983
01:08:11,400 --> 01:08:13,840
and it has an awful lot to do with John F. Kennedy.

984
01:08:14,599 --> 01:08:18,039
All Right, Kennedy is the origin of our aligned nation

985
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:24,399
of immigrants. He popularized that term. Kennedy is recent. All right.

986
01:08:25,039 --> 01:08:31,520
Our ideas about the American people are much older than Kennedy,

987
01:08:32,119 --> 01:08:35,920
and there's no reason why Kennedy should win that narrative

988
01:08:36,960 --> 01:08:39,560
be the only thing we think about when we think

989
01:08:39,600 --> 01:08:45,560
about what who constitutes the American nation. We have other

990
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:49,920
ideas to go with that are not despairing to us.

991
01:08:50,479 --> 01:08:56,039
When Kennedy reformed the immigration policy. It was it was

992
01:08:56,079 --> 01:08:58,960
something like eighty three percent of the United States was

993
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:07,319
descended from Europe in settlers. That's not very long ago, folks.

994
01:09:08,359 --> 01:09:11,720
A lot has changed since then. I get that. But

995
01:09:11,960 --> 01:09:14,600
what I'm saying is that we have other stories that

996
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:20,239
we tell. Now, why is the gay so emphatic to

997
01:09:20,640 --> 01:09:26,319
identify and destroy anything that it recognizes as white supremacy?

998
01:09:27,279 --> 01:09:30,359
What is the code for that? It's about European Americans,

999
01:09:30,399 --> 01:09:34,319
It's about white Americans. Anything that white Americans built, anything

1000
01:09:34,319 --> 01:09:39,399
that white Americans value, is we know on the chopping

1001
01:09:39,399 --> 01:09:43,399
block to be canceled for being racist or exclusionary or something.

1002
01:09:43,920 --> 01:09:47,520
Look at what happens to white institutions in South Africa.

1003
01:09:47,880 --> 01:09:52,720
We know that's coming for institutions we value generally in

1004
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:59,520
this country. But we need, we do need stories to

1005
01:09:59,640 --> 01:10:05,000
tell our own people that does not leaving, does not

1006
01:10:05,119 --> 01:10:08,319
leave them thinking, oh, I must be a racist, I

1007
01:10:08,399 --> 01:10:14,960
need to die. Okay, that that doesn't help us. It

1008
01:10:15,079 --> 01:10:21,399
hurts us. And Americans have something valuable to offer. We

1009
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:26,479
have something valuable to offer North America. We should give

1010
01:10:26,520 --> 01:10:31,479
it to our own. We have a duty there. But

1011
01:10:32,000 --> 01:10:37,760
and I say this and I'm conscious conscientious here. I

1012
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:40,239
do not want to sound like I'm wanting to export

1013
01:10:40,359 --> 01:10:43,840
imperial ideologies. That's the last thing I want to do.

1014
01:10:43,920 --> 01:10:51,199
But America has had a role as being a kind

1015
01:10:51,239 --> 01:10:56,159
of beacon or source of hope for other peoples who

1016
01:10:56,159 --> 01:11:00,319
are struggling in the world, and it's been so many

1017
01:11:00,399 --> 01:11:05,000
things to so many people. I'm not I'm not talking

1018
01:11:05,159 --> 01:11:08,279
specifically about the myth of the Shining City on the Hill,

1019
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:13,680
but that that has been a powerful sort of image

1020
01:11:14,359 --> 01:11:20,840
for this If we Americans can can get some of

1021
01:11:20,880 --> 01:11:25,840
our shit here together to be frank, if we can

1022
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,960
if we can have functional institutions, if we can be

1023
01:11:29,079 --> 01:11:35,119
faithful Christians, if we can build functional families and raise

1024
01:11:35,159 --> 01:11:40,800
our children and teach them effectively, and they can pass

1025
01:11:40,880 --> 01:11:43,840
this on to theirs, and we can love this land

1026
01:11:43,880 --> 01:11:47,039
a little bit. This this this land that's been horribly

1027
01:11:47,079 --> 01:11:51,079
abused and wasted, if we can give it some love

1028
01:11:51,079 --> 01:11:56,279
and adornment. We can encourage our friends in other countries

1029
01:11:57,039 --> 01:12:01,880
just by that example. I think we have something to offer.

1030
01:12:02,479 --> 01:12:11,920
I really do, and I love this country. I want

1031
01:12:11,920 --> 01:12:14,840
to be realistic about the problems we're facing, though right

1032
01:12:15,399 --> 01:12:20,039
they're they're very significant and things aren't looking good right now.

1033
01:12:20,359 --> 01:12:24,760
But that doesn't mean that we throw out all of

1034
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,159
our fond, fear of feelings about America. If we do that,

1035
01:12:28,359 --> 01:12:32,520
we might as well. I don't know what people who

1036
01:12:32,560 --> 01:12:35,319
throw out all all of their fond feelings about America,

1037
01:12:35,359 --> 01:12:37,399
what do they do? Do they go to West Virginia

1038
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:41,079
and take meth I don't know, but I don't think

1039
01:12:41,119 --> 01:12:43,039
it's going to be very good. Why not? Why not

1040
01:12:43,159 --> 01:12:48,039
join the enemy? Right? Why not push transgender ideology? If

1041
01:12:48,039 --> 01:12:50,960
that is all America is going to be? Why not

1042
01:12:51,039 --> 01:12:56,159
join the state Department? Why not push this stuff? I

1043
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:59,960
don't agree that, but I don't agree with that because

1044
01:13:00,279 --> 01:13:05,000
I don't believe that's what America is. My America is small,

1045
01:13:05,680 --> 01:13:08,279
My America's regional, My America's mine.

1046
01:13:13,199 --> 01:13:15,800
Speaker 2: Well, I think that's a it's a pretty good way

1047
01:13:15,560 --> 01:13:19,039
to wrap things up. We discussed before. You don't have

1048
01:13:19,079 --> 01:13:21,560
anything you want to plug, at least for now, so

1049
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,000
as we wrap things up. Obviously, thank you so much

1050
01:13:25,000 --> 01:13:28,000
for coming on. That was a great, a great recording.

1051
01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:30,079
I'm really pleased with it, and hopefully we can get

1052
01:13:30,079 --> 01:13:30,600
you on again.

1053
01:13:31,039 --> 01:13:34,319
Speaker 5: I'm glad for that. I'm certainly interested in coming back

1054
01:13:34,359 --> 01:13:38,119
on I don't have anything to plug right now, though

1055
01:13:38,239 --> 01:13:44,159
I am going to be recording audiobooks eventually i'll plug those.

1056
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:51,079
Don't have a YouTube channel yet though I'm thinking about that.

1057
01:13:52,000 --> 01:13:56,920
But I'm really pleased to have the opportunity burden. It's

1058
01:13:56,960 --> 01:14:00,359
a real pleasure to be on here, and I give

1059
01:14:00,359 --> 01:14:03,159
my respects to to all of our friends in the sphere.

1060
01:14:04,199 --> 01:14:06,199
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, and you have an open invitation

1061
01:14:06,239 --> 01:14:08,680
anytime you want to come back on as far as

1062
01:14:09,159 --> 01:14:11,399
as far as my stuff, obviously, my links will be

1063
01:14:11,439 --> 01:14:16,920
down in the description. We have one super chat from

1064
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:21,560
Oh this is from Smear. I think this is when

1065
01:14:21,560 --> 01:14:23,600
we were talking about South Africa where he said there's

1066
01:14:23,600 --> 01:14:26,399
no one left, there's nowhere left to run, and I

1067
01:14:26,399 --> 01:14:28,800
think that's something we can all all agree with to

1068
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:33,399
one degree or another. Right Obviously, the show is available

1069
01:14:33,399 --> 01:14:37,840
on YouTube. Also, it will be correctly up on any

1070
01:14:37,880 --> 01:14:41,720
podcatcher you know, Apple, Spotify. However, you guys listen to podcasts.

1071
01:14:42,199 --> 01:14:45,239
We got an exciting episode coming up Normal Son on Thursday,

1072
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,560
Thomas seven seven and I are going to be talking

1073
01:14:47,560 --> 01:14:50,399
about the middle class, so be sure to catch that one,

1074
01:14:50,520 --> 01:14:53,640
and remember, guys, keep your head up well. I can't

1075
01:14:53,720 --> 01:15:00,720
last forever. Good night everyone, Good night. All right, George Bagby,

1076
01:15:01,000 --> 01:15:01,880
welcome back to the show.

1077
01:15:01,920 --> 01:15:04,640
Speaker 5: How you doing. I'm doing well. Thanks a lot for

1078
01:15:04,680 --> 01:15:05,439
having me back.

1079
01:15:06,520 --> 01:15:08,439
Speaker 2: Well great, And before we launch into it, just a

1080
01:15:08,720 --> 01:15:11,439
couple of housekeeping things. I won't bore you guys with

1081
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:13,399
the you know, with the gory details, but I will say,

1082
01:15:13,399 --> 01:15:15,520
I'm I'm I'm pretty sick, so I'm going to be

1083
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:18,079
a little bit, a little bit more reserved than normal,

1084
01:15:18,520 --> 01:15:21,720
you know, so don't expect you know, me in top forms,

1085
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:25,159
so to speak. But that said, the reason I invited

1086
01:15:25,199 --> 01:15:28,000
you back, Bagby is because obviously our last show, which

1087
01:15:28,000 --> 01:15:29,880
is one that I really enjoyed, was kind of on

1088
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:34,319
the nature of you know, America and American culture, and

1089
01:15:34,960 --> 01:15:38,960
that was kind of looking forward to a debate, a discussion,

1090
01:15:39,119 --> 01:15:41,960
whatever you want to call it on Academic Agent's Channel,

1091
01:15:42,079 --> 01:15:45,760
you know, between he Furious, pertinax Y Is and Paul

1092
01:15:45,920 --> 01:15:47,680
you know who are all you know, one degree and

1093
01:15:47,720 --> 01:15:50,399
other friends of the channel. And I think all of us,

1094
01:15:50,399 --> 01:15:52,600
you know, been kind of aware of the discourse around

1095
01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,960
you know, America, you know, the global American empire, American culture.

1096
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,359
And I think that you and I both were you know,

1097
01:15:58,439 --> 01:16:01,520
not particularly happy with how that discussion. And obviously, before

1098
01:16:01,520 --> 01:16:03,880
we get into this, this is in no way a

1099
01:16:03,920 --> 01:16:06,800
personal slight on any of these guys, is you know,

1100
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:08,840
I like all of them. They're all you know, friendly

1101
01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:11,039
to me, and you know, by virtue of the fact

1102
01:16:11,039 --> 01:16:13,520
that they're not here, this is going to be an

1103
01:16:13,520 --> 01:16:15,880
abstract view of their opinions. You know, we might get

1104
01:16:15,880 --> 01:16:17,600
some things wrong, but all the same, I think that

1105
01:16:17,680 --> 01:16:19,760
we wanted to have a discussion about that.

1106
01:16:21,079 --> 01:16:25,880
Speaker 5: Absolutely. You remember I got in touch with you about

1107
01:16:26,680 --> 01:16:32,000
interviewing on your show because of this issue originally, and

1108
01:16:32,159 --> 01:16:38,279
I'm still very interested in it. We have a common duty.

1109
01:16:38,920 --> 01:16:46,359
All people have a basic duty to honor their heritage.

1110
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,840
In some sense, I think we could call this a

1111
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:53,800
virtue of patriotism. That really is a kind of responsibility.

1112
01:16:53,840 --> 01:16:58,600
It's a basic thing that people need. And if we

1113
01:16:58,760 --> 01:17:01,680
hate where we came from from, if we hate our

1114
01:17:01,720 --> 01:17:09,000
own ancestors, it destroys us. There's a writer who I

1115
01:17:09,079 --> 01:17:16,039
really love, a Russian dissident, a Christian historian named Burdaiev

1116
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:23,760
Nikolai Burdaiev, and he was exiled by the Bolsheviks and such.

1117
01:17:24,079 --> 01:17:26,359
He's a very interesting fellow and I've done a lot

1118
01:17:26,399 --> 01:17:29,960
of work on him. But he said something very succinct

1119
01:17:30,000 --> 01:17:32,479
about this. He said, without the love of country, a

1120
01:17:32,600 --> 01:17:36,600
man is unable to create. And it does not seem

1121
01:17:36,880 --> 01:17:43,199
coincidental to me that in this stage of the history

1122
01:17:43,239 --> 01:17:50,479
of the West, family formation is falling apart. People are

1123
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:54,439
walking away from any sense of responsibility to raise the

1124
01:17:54,479 --> 01:18:01,279
next generation, people are voluntarily sterilizing themselves and numbers. All

1125
01:18:01,319 --> 01:18:04,880
of these things really are connected, and it is based

1126
01:18:05,159 --> 01:18:12,600
in an attitude and a kind of loyalty to the patree, right,

1127
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:19,199
the native land patree. We can translate that from the

1128
01:18:19,199 --> 01:18:22,640
French as fatherland if you will. The words are related,

1129
01:18:22,800 --> 01:18:27,720
you know, patrimony, paternity, All of these things are all

1130
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:35,039
connected linguistically. People feel alienated from their homes. People feel

1131
01:18:35,119 --> 01:18:39,840
separated from their ancestors. People have antipathy towards their ancestors

1132
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,199
and their homes. And this is not just an American phenomenon.

1133
01:18:44,039 --> 01:18:50,720
We remember a couple of summers ago, the phenomenon of

1134
01:18:50,920 --> 01:18:53,520
mobs taking to the streets and pulling down the statues

1135
01:18:53,560 --> 01:18:56,800
and the rest of it. And that has not stopped.

1136
01:18:56,840 --> 01:19:00,239
You know, that was only the opening movement of a

1137
01:19:00,279 --> 01:19:07,159
broader campaign but this is going on across the West.

1138
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:13,880
It's not just Americans. I remember meeting German college students

1139
01:19:13,920 --> 01:19:16,720
back when I was in graduate school and talking with

1140
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:21,920
them about their heritage, because I knew enough to know

1141
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:25,960
that Germany was a substantial place that was deserving of

1142
01:19:26,079 --> 01:19:32,520
respect and love. And yet my German college age peers

1143
01:19:33,319 --> 01:19:37,760
could only dunk on their heritage. That was all they

1144
01:19:37,800 --> 01:19:42,560
could say about it. And these chickens are coming home

1145
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:46,960
to roost. If you will, you know that a society

1146
01:19:47,039 --> 01:19:51,399
that does not honor their fathers and their mothers, a

1147
01:19:51,479 --> 01:19:55,640
society that actively hates their own ancestors, is a society

1148
01:19:55,680 --> 01:20:00,000
without a future. So I'm deeply invested in this issue.

1149
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:04,840
I think it's a basic responsibility of a humanities teacher,

1150
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:09,319
which which is what I am, to cultivate these kinds

1151
01:20:09,359 --> 01:20:13,880
of loyalties. And it's an uphill battle these days. But

1152
01:20:14,039 --> 01:20:20,399
this is the discussion AA's cigar Stream Academic Agents cigar

1153
01:20:20,439 --> 01:20:26,000
Stream just recently was about the question, and I wanted

1154
01:20:26,039 --> 01:20:28,960
to return to that once again kind of kind of

1155
01:20:29,000 --> 01:20:32,319
to go through the talking points of that and see

1156
01:20:32,319 --> 01:20:36,720
what we can make of it. I'm going to say

1157
01:20:36,760 --> 01:20:43,399
something potentially very unpopular here, once academic Agent had a

1158
01:20:43,479 --> 01:20:48,159
chance to clarify some of his more controversial choices in wording.

1159
01:20:48,640 --> 01:20:55,760
Let's say he did publish a series of syllogisms outlining

1160
01:20:55,840 --> 01:21:02,680
his argument for the cigar stream. Found that distillation of

1161
01:21:02,720 --> 01:21:09,319
his basic argument theory illuminating. And it wasn't the cigar

1162
01:21:09,359 --> 01:21:16,079
stream itself which had its problems. It was his syllogisms

1163
01:21:16,680 --> 01:21:20,840
that and his clarifications, I must say, and have left

1164
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:25,800
me in a peculiar situation with some qualifications. And I

1165
01:21:26,359 --> 01:21:32,000
would want to clarify, and I'd want some disclaimers along

1166
01:21:32,039 --> 01:21:38,760
the way. I will announce myself in agreement with academic

1167
01:21:38,800 --> 01:21:39,960
agents argument.

1168
01:21:42,079 --> 01:21:44,680
Speaker 2: I think I find myself in a similar position to you.

1169
01:21:44,840 --> 01:21:49,119
And I've said multiple times that I felt I felt

1170
01:21:49,199 --> 01:21:51,000
kind of unsatisfied with what I felt was kind of

1171
01:21:51,039 --> 01:21:53,399
a modern Bailey move, you know. And maybe these are

1172
01:21:53,479 --> 01:21:56,760
unrelated conversations that got pulled into one another because I

1173
01:21:56,760 --> 01:21:58,960
feel like at first there was kind of the discussion

1174
01:21:59,000 --> 01:22:02,079
about American culture, you know, which I felt a certain

1175
01:22:02,079 --> 01:22:06,119
degree kind of baited by, and that was things that

1176
01:22:06,159 --> 01:22:10,000
I obviously all of us on these side of things agree,

1177
01:22:10,520 --> 01:22:13,439
kind of the debase nature of culture across the West,

1178
01:22:13,800 --> 01:22:16,640
you know, Jersey Shore, and you know and and Lizzo

1179
01:22:16,720 --> 01:22:18,640
and you know other kind of like things of that

1180
01:22:18,720 --> 01:22:23,359
of that nature, and so it was frustrating, kind of

1181
01:22:23,359 --> 01:22:25,920
feeling like you were getting blamed for something you obviously

1182
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:27,680
don't support. And so I think that got a lot

1183
01:22:27,680 --> 01:22:29,640
of people's hackles up, and I made a lot of

1184
01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:31,880
people angry, and it caused a lot of people to

1185
01:22:31,960 --> 01:22:35,319
kind of reactively, you know, say things they probably didn't mean,

1186
01:22:35,439 --> 01:22:38,560
or disagree with things that they ordinarily would because honestly,

1187
01:22:38,560 --> 01:22:40,680
and I've said multiple times, you know, even talking to

1188
01:22:40,399 --> 01:22:44,840
the Norwegian guys you know over at Longhouse, that I

1189
01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:50,000
can't help but kind of agree with European anti americanism,

1190
01:22:50,199 --> 01:22:52,479
you know, I do. I find myself in agreement with

1191
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:55,760
AA's written arguments, not necessarily kind of like the ones

1192
01:22:55,800 --> 01:22:58,399
you put up on Twitter or t Gram.

1193
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:03,840
Speaker 5: Indeed, and when we talk about American cultural influence over Europe,

1194
01:23:04,039 --> 01:23:08,760
we are usually talking about the cultural exports of the

1195
01:23:08,880 --> 01:23:14,960
degeneracy that we are at such pains to combat and

1196
01:23:15,079 --> 01:23:19,560
counteract here on our own shores. We don't like American

1197
01:23:19,760 --> 01:23:23,319
cultural influence on Europe. We do not like American cultural

1198
01:23:23,359 --> 01:23:30,760
imperialism in Europe. And I don't really know how this works,

1199
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:38,119
how the American political influence or military occupation of Europe

1200
01:23:39,279 --> 01:23:44,600
has to do with the cultural export to Europe. But

1201
01:23:44,880 --> 01:23:48,760
this is this is one of those points that I

1202
01:23:48,800 --> 01:23:56,680
wonder why would we contend on that issue? As an American,

1203
01:23:57,520 --> 01:24:03,479
I have nothing in vest did in the garrisons captain Europe.

1204
01:24:04,800 --> 01:24:09,800
I think that the American Empire is wasteful and presumptuous.

1205
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:15,359
The United States government does not have any mandate to

1206
01:24:15,399 --> 01:24:19,079
police the world. The United States government has no mandate

1207
01:24:19,119 --> 01:24:22,159
to occupy Europe or tell Europe what to do. And

1208
01:24:22,920 --> 01:24:28,319
I'm I'm willing to take the argument from our British friends.

1209
01:24:29,800 --> 01:24:33,399
Tell me is furious pertinacts British because I don't actually

1210
01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:34,720
know he's Australian.

1211
01:24:34,960 --> 01:24:38,399
Speaker 2: I believe, okay, I thought I was, which is an

1212
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:39,039
odd mix.

1213
01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:42,760
Speaker 5: I thought that I was getting better at distinguishing the

1214
01:24:42,800 --> 01:24:45,199
Australian accent, and it turns out that I'm not so

1215
01:24:46,359 --> 01:24:48,439
much love and respect to you folks. I love the

1216
01:24:48,479 --> 01:24:50,640
way that you talk, but I can't distinguish one from

1217
01:24:50,640 --> 01:24:58,800
the other. Well, with respect to our British friends when

1218
01:24:58,840 --> 01:25:03,279
they say that the the American garrisons in Europe are

1219
01:25:04,119 --> 01:25:08,159
forcing the British and the Germans and whoever else to

1220
01:25:08,239 --> 01:25:12,680
do things against their political interests. I agree they're doing

1221
01:25:12,720 --> 01:25:17,720
things against their political interests. They are likely to be

1222
01:25:18,199 --> 01:25:23,560
experiencing blackouts in the middle of the winter. They're unlikely

1223
01:25:23,600 --> 01:25:26,920
to be able to heat their homes this winter because

1224
01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:32,399
they are so obviously acting against their essential interests as

1225
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:39,079
sovereign countries, as traditional nations who supposedly have governments representing

1226
01:25:39,119 --> 01:25:43,760
their interests. I don't know how else to explain that,

1227
01:25:43,880 --> 01:25:48,000
other than they're obviously under the control of their enemies.

1228
01:25:50,560 --> 01:25:53,960
Our British friends would like to blame DC on the

1229
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:58,079
same grounds that DC hates the likes of US and

1230
01:25:58,439 --> 01:26:02,079
wants to destroy US culture as well, wants to destroy

1231
01:26:02,159 --> 01:26:06,720
our religious adherents, wants to corrupt our children. They are

1232
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:13,840
they speak openly on these things. I don't know, And

1233
01:26:14,159 --> 01:26:17,239
with respect to our American friends in this in this argument,

1234
01:26:17,840 --> 01:26:20,640
I don't know why they would be unwilling to admit

1235
01:26:20,720 --> 01:26:26,000
that and to make concessions and declare a kind of

1236
01:26:26,039 --> 01:26:33,399
common cause. The DC regime is the enemy of the

1237
01:26:33,439 --> 01:26:38,239
dissident right. They did openly declare themselves to be so,

1238
01:26:40,359 --> 01:26:46,479
and it seems to me that AA's assertion that we

1239
01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:50,720
should have a common cause to clear them out, which

1240
01:26:50,760 --> 01:26:56,560
in our case means wanting the dissolution of the regime

1241
01:26:56,880 --> 01:27:00,640
in Washington d c ought to be something we can

1242
01:27:00,680 --> 01:27:08,640
agree on, American or not. Now we Americans have taken

1243
01:27:08,680 --> 01:27:13,560
exception to academic agents rhetoric in his choice of words.

1244
01:27:15,199 --> 01:27:22,079
AA keeps saying America is cancer, and America has no culture,

1245
01:27:22,159 --> 01:27:26,760
and America is a made up nation and things like that. Okay,

1246
01:27:28,479 --> 01:27:31,239
he has since qualified himself. I think he said those

1247
01:27:31,239 --> 01:27:34,119
things disturb things up, and my goodness, didn't he It

1248
01:27:34,239 --> 01:27:37,960
was very successful disturb things up and to tick us off.

1249
01:27:38,039 --> 01:27:42,760
Rile is up. But he has since qualified himself. He

1250
01:27:43,680 --> 01:27:47,640
says that at best, the United States is a collection

1251
01:27:47,840 --> 01:27:51,520
of peoples. Well, I happen to be in the habit

1252
01:27:51,600 --> 01:27:57,439
of referring to the American nations or American peoples, which

1253
01:27:58,640 --> 01:28:03,319
may end up being some kind of regional phenomenon. So

1254
01:28:03,399 --> 01:28:07,159
it's uh, it's not a It's still not going to

1255
01:28:07,199 --> 01:28:12,159
be like European ethnicities, and I'm not claiming that it is.

1256
01:28:12,520 --> 01:28:17,079
But let's let's have that discussion later. Okay, Let's let's.

1257
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:19,000
Speaker 2: Show you that do you want to get in first

1258
01:28:19,000 --> 01:28:22,399
by essentially kind of summarizing or just actually reading out

1259
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:25,560
right the syllogisms that he kind of started the discussion with.

1260
01:28:25,920 --> 01:28:29,239
Speaker 5: Absolutely that that's a great idea. Shall I do that?

1261
01:28:29,319 --> 01:28:30,000
I have that here?

1262
01:28:30,119 --> 01:28:31,119
Speaker 2: Sure, yes, thank you.

1263
01:28:31,239 --> 01:28:36,800
Speaker 5: Okay, so I've got AA's argument. Syllogism number one, All

1264
01:28:36,880 --> 01:28:41,520
true nations are built on ethnos. The United States is

1265
01:28:41,560 --> 01:28:46,239
a propositional nation. Therefore, the United States is not a

1266
01:28:46,279 --> 01:28:52,159
true nation. I have just clarified my position on that.

1267
01:28:52,399 --> 01:28:56,119
Perhaps we can move on from that one. I'm in

1268
01:28:56,159 --> 01:29:00,840
agreement with him the United States. When we talk about

1269
01:29:01,520 --> 01:29:07,239
the American nation, we're talking about a propositional nation. The

1270
01:29:07,279 --> 01:29:14,039
modern conception, which is very commonly accepted now, it's not

1271
01:29:14,159 --> 01:29:17,640
the historic conception. At one point in our history, we

1272
01:29:17,680 --> 01:29:21,159
would have talked about the American people, and we would

1273
01:29:21,199 --> 01:29:27,199
have meant white Anglo Saxon Protestants who were running things right,

1274
01:29:27,279 --> 01:29:31,319
who conquered the country, named the country, created the laws

1275
01:29:31,319 --> 01:29:34,319
of the country, so on and so forth. Up until

1276
01:29:34,359 --> 01:29:39,640
the nineteen sixties, they still constituted over eighty percent of citizens.

1277
01:29:41,640 --> 01:29:45,119
So people could speak that way and it made more sense.

1278
01:29:46,359 --> 01:29:51,079
And that wasn't very long ago. Paul Fahrenheit has talked

1279
01:29:51,079 --> 01:29:55,680
about this, and kudos to him, give him credit where

1280
01:29:55,720 --> 01:29:58,920
it's due. I think he's correct on this point. But

1281
01:30:00,520 --> 01:30:04,159
the idea that the United States or that Americans just

1282
01:30:04,399 --> 01:30:08,560
believe a proposition and that's what makes them Americans, that

1283
01:30:08,600 --> 01:30:13,880
has become mainstream. I accept that. I agree that that's

1284
01:30:13,880 --> 01:30:19,039
a mainstream idea. I don't blame anyone who assumes that

1285
01:30:19,039 --> 01:30:23,000
that's what Americans have always meant. You kind of have

1286
01:30:23,079 --> 01:30:28,359
to get into the history to know otherwise. I was

1287
01:30:28,399 --> 01:30:31,680
talking in our last stream about different narratives of American history,

1288
01:30:31,680 --> 01:30:34,039
and that was part of my point. The propositional nation

1289
01:30:34,359 --> 01:30:39,680
is a narrative of American history. Then the next syllogism,

1290
01:30:39,800 --> 01:30:45,079
propositions spread like viruses, mutating and replicating themselves on other hosts.

1291
01:30:47,399 --> 01:30:51,359
Syllogism a the United States is not a true nation,

1292
01:30:52,279 --> 01:30:56,359
it's a propositional one third point of the syllogism, the

1293
01:30:56,479 --> 01:30:59,399
United States is a virus that always seeks to replicate

1294
01:30:59,479 --> 01:31:02,199
even as it mutates. So the United States, in other words,

1295
01:31:02,319 --> 01:31:11,279
is imperial in its basic composition. The third syllogism, liberalism

1296
01:31:11,479 --> 01:31:17,399
is moral syphilis. The United States sees it as its

1297
01:31:17,439 --> 01:31:20,800
divine mission to spread liberalism around the world. Therefore, the

1298
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:29,520
United States is moral syphilis. This is AA's syllogism. So

1299
01:31:29,960 --> 01:31:32,880
he's saying that the United States and its central composition

1300
01:31:33,239 --> 01:31:40,159
is a liberal internationalist project. At a certain point, it

1301
01:31:40,319 --> 01:31:46,039
certainly becomes a liberal internationalist project. I do not deny

1302
01:31:46,119 --> 01:31:50,520
that that becomes the ruling regime in Washington, d c.

1303
01:31:51,760 --> 01:31:56,359
Arguably in eighteen ninety eight with the Spanish American War,

1304
01:31:57,039 --> 01:32:04,239
where the out and out imperialist party dominates the actions

1305
01:32:04,279 --> 01:32:07,640
and foreign policy of the federal government. Now at that

1306
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:10,880
point in our history, we actually still have a lot

1307
01:32:10,960 --> 01:32:15,720
of high quality dissenters. They are elites. These are not

1308
01:32:15,800 --> 01:32:20,520
people that are excluded from positions of power. These are

1309
01:32:20,520 --> 01:32:25,439
not non political people. They are very political people. They

1310
01:32:25,479 --> 01:32:32,319
are members of the old ruling class. They have a

1311
01:32:32,319 --> 01:32:39,079
lot of clout, They have money. They begin a famous committee,

1312
01:32:38,880 --> 01:32:44,319
the Anti Imperialist League, They have publications, they have famous

1313
01:32:44,359 --> 01:32:50,319
spokesmen like Mark Twain and such. And the anti war

1314
01:32:50,439 --> 01:32:54,520
tradition in the United States is still around. We still

1315
01:32:54,560 --> 01:32:59,880
have groups like anti war dot Com, which has really

1316
01:33:00,159 --> 01:33:04,920
been keeping the light alive all of these years through

1317
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:08,840
the War on Terror. We have people like Ron Paul

1318
01:33:09,279 --> 01:33:13,039
who really did strike a strike a chord with his

1319
01:33:13,279 --> 01:33:17,560
presidential runs, his campaigns, and of course he's still around.

1320
01:33:17,359 --> 01:33:20,199
He did take a lot of those campaign contributions, and

1321
01:33:20,199 --> 01:33:24,079
he's set up a media enterprise, so he's he's still

1322
01:33:24,079 --> 01:33:26,920
with us, and his people are still making a difference

1323
01:33:27,319 --> 01:33:32,760
that the anti imperialist tradition in the American story is

1324
01:33:32,800 --> 01:33:36,039
still something that's alive. It's still something that's vital. And

1325
01:33:36,199 --> 01:33:41,760
I but I also I don't deny AA's point here.

1326
01:33:42,359 --> 01:33:47,640
I just want to qualify myself. Is any one of

1327
01:33:47,680 --> 01:33:52,640
the opinion that there is a dissenting group of elites

1328
01:33:53,079 --> 01:33:57,560
in power in Washington, DC that does not favor the

1329
01:33:57,600 --> 01:34:02,359
American empire that's trying to bring at all home. I'm

1330
01:34:02,399 --> 01:34:08,159
under no illusions about this. Donald Trump did not run

1331
01:34:08,199 --> 01:34:12,840
on an anti imperialist platform. If anything, it was just

1332
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:16,000
an old fashioned imperialist platform. I don't know if you

1333
01:34:16,079 --> 01:34:21,920
remember when he had an interview was it with George

1334
01:34:21,920 --> 01:34:27,119
Stephanopoulos where Trump said, we we should have made the

1335
01:34:27,199 --> 01:34:30,840
war in Iraq to our profit. We should have taken

1336
01:34:30,880 --> 01:34:31,439
their oil.

1337
01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,279
Speaker 2: I do remember that, which I hate to say is

1338
01:34:36,319 --> 01:34:41,560
a is a position that I'm not I don't morally

1339
01:34:41,640 --> 01:34:43,479
agree with, but at least it's like, well, if we're

1340
01:34:43,479 --> 01:34:44,960
going to have an empire, and you might as well

1341
01:34:45,000 --> 01:34:47,920
get some benefit from it, that's right, Versus this this

1342
01:34:47,960 --> 01:34:50,760
system now, which I think that you know a lot

1343
01:34:50,760 --> 01:34:53,840
of the anti Americans have have you know, pretty successfully

1344
01:34:53,880 --> 01:34:57,479
pointed out, does not benefit Americans. You know, the American

1345
01:34:57,520 --> 01:35:01,600
Empire is essentially run for the outgroup, and.

1346
01:35:01,520 --> 01:35:05,159
Speaker 5: So that's why it is moral syphilis, and it's like

1347
01:35:05,199 --> 01:35:09,000
a virus seeking other countries to replicate itself.

1348
01:35:08,680 --> 01:35:13,279
Speaker 2: In yeah, when I also am just confused the instinctual,

1349
01:35:14,199 --> 01:35:16,880
I guess, the instinctual like urge to protect the American

1350
01:35:16,920 --> 01:35:20,800
Empire because I mean, I feel like the project, especially

1351
01:35:21,520 --> 01:35:24,760
post Bush and very much in kind of like the

1352
01:35:24,800 --> 01:35:28,359
post Obama era, it's been very clear that the empire

1353
01:35:28,399 --> 01:35:30,359
is not for people like you and me. You know,

1354
01:35:30,439 --> 01:35:32,840
we're I mean, we're even seeing now, you know, specifically

1355
01:35:32,840 --> 01:35:36,960
with the armed forces, you know, kind of shedding. It's

1356
01:35:37,039 --> 01:35:40,560
kind of like Scotch Irish Anglo core. You know. It's

1357
01:35:40,600 --> 01:35:43,319
that the people who made the empire for for good

1358
01:35:43,359 --> 01:35:47,560
or ill, you know, initially are no longer the beneficiaries

1359
01:35:47,600 --> 01:35:47,840
of it.

1360
01:35:49,760 --> 01:35:53,880
Speaker 5: Indeed, and it doesn't make any kind of physical sense.

1361
01:35:57,479 --> 01:36:01,239
I've I've seen the the impure real projects of the

1362
01:36:01,359 --> 01:36:09,920
United States as grossly immoral and a tremendous financial waste

1363
01:36:10,880 --> 01:36:15,840
and a squandering of the goodwill, the the morale, and

1364
01:36:15,920 --> 01:36:20,439
the and the blood of one of our greatest assets,

1365
01:36:20,439 --> 01:36:25,199
which is young people, young men willing to fight for it,

1366
01:36:25,640 --> 01:36:30,760
willing to defend the flag for for what it's worth.

1367
01:36:30,960 --> 01:36:35,960
Those those people should should be treated as a sacred charge.

1368
01:36:36,079 --> 01:36:41,840
They should never be sent into some some nation building

1369
01:36:42,640 --> 01:36:46,520
project that's been that's been concocted in the Pentagon or

1370
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:49,960
the State Department, that is immoral. And I have believed

1371
01:36:49,960 --> 01:36:55,399
that my entire adult life. I I fully realize I'm

1372
01:36:55,399 --> 01:37:01,960
in a minority on this. Americans are are usually imperialists

1373
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:04,439
and take it for granted. They don't, they don't call

1374
01:37:04,479 --> 01:37:09,039
themselves imperialists. But tell an American, let's bring the troops home.

1375
01:37:09,239 --> 01:37:14,359
We can't police the world. Why are Americans in practically

1376
01:37:14,600 --> 01:37:16,920
every country in the world there is there is some

1377
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:22,079
American presence, some American military presence. We readily can list

1378
01:37:22,079 --> 01:37:28,840
off the ones where the American military does have no troops. Russia,

1379
01:37:29,760 --> 01:37:35,640
North Korea, China, Iran, countries like that where we have

1380
01:37:35,720 --> 01:37:39,439
no troops on the ground, also completely dysfunctional countries like

1381
01:37:39,520 --> 01:37:43,399
Somalia right where if we were there, we would be

1382
01:37:43,479 --> 01:37:44,279
running the place.

1383
01:37:46,199 --> 01:37:49,880
Speaker 2: There's really no alternative, I will say, And this is

1384
01:37:50,079 --> 01:37:52,960
largely aside. There's a and this is actually a lot

1385
01:37:53,000 --> 01:37:56,279
of the work from the anti anti war dot com people,

1386
01:37:56,640 --> 01:37:59,039
But essentially the reason Somalia is the hellhole it is

1387
01:37:59,039 --> 01:38:02,479
is also largely are fault. You know, that's fairly non controversial.

1388
01:38:02,479 --> 01:38:04,359
But I think that's probably outside the share of this

1389
01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:06,039
or outside the scope of this discussion.

1390
01:38:06,840 --> 01:38:12,680
Speaker 5: Indeed, I mean the United States government and thanks to

1391
01:38:13,000 --> 01:38:17,560
their insistence on this for the last one hundred years,

1392
01:38:19,800 --> 01:38:25,239
regular Americans assume that we have to have a position

1393
01:38:25,399 --> 01:38:29,039
on every conflict on the globe, and that we have

1394
01:38:29,119 --> 01:38:34,880
some obligation to take sides. And this is preposterous. So

1395
01:38:35,000 --> 01:38:38,000
what comes along with the with the exceptional or with

1396
01:38:38,079 --> 01:38:43,720
the propositional nation thesis is the exceptional nation thesis. We

1397
01:38:43,800 --> 01:38:48,720
are not a traditional nation. We are special. We have

1398
01:38:48,960 --> 01:38:55,279
a divine mission, as AA put it in his syllogism,

1399
01:38:55,359 --> 01:38:59,920
some divine mandate to police the world, to resolve differences,

1400
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:03,640
to establish peace among the heathen or something like that,

1401
01:39:04,720 --> 01:39:11,600
and that is that's also preposterous. That's also unlimited commitment,

1402
01:39:12,920 --> 01:39:17,720
and it's it's not responsible. I mean, I don't really

1403
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:22,239
need to say all of this, But the United States

1404
01:39:22,279 --> 01:39:25,600
is an empire. The United States is made of many peoples.

1405
01:39:25,880 --> 01:39:31,520
That's one of the definitions of empire. The United States

1406
01:39:31,520 --> 01:39:35,000
has this global presence. The United States has this presumption

1407
01:39:35,439 --> 01:39:39,039
that it can insert itself in itself into the sovereign

1408
01:39:39,079 --> 01:39:42,000
affairs of any country in the world and tell them

1409
01:39:42,000 --> 01:39:46,159
what to do. Thankfully, some of the stuff is breaking down.

1410
01:39:47,199 --> 01:39:51,920
Americans will learn real limits. But I see no reason

1411
01:39:52,000 --> 01:39:58,279
why this regime deserves to survive. AA's argument that it

1412
01:39:58,279 --> 01:40:03,319
ought to be dissolved. For these given reasons, I am

1413
01:40:03,359 --> 01:40:08,039
in agreement with them, with some qualification. I would like

1414
01:40:08,119 --> 01:40:10,479
to see, as I said on the last stream, I'd

1415
01:40:10,520 --> 01:40:12,680
like to see the Union dissolved. I think that that

1416
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:17,279
would be a good thing for everyone involved. I think

1417
01:40:17,319 --> 01:40:22,439
we've gone enough through AA's argument here for me to

1418
01:40:22,560 --> 01:40:28,239
properly qualify myself. But we return again to this question

1419
01:40:28,279 --> 01:40:33,000
of patriotism. So patriotism does not mean that you're boosting

1420
01:40:33,079 --> 01:40:35,520
all the actions of your government. It doesn't mean raw

1421
01:40:35,640 --> 01:40:39,199
raw raw. We want DC to win whenever they get

1422
01:40:39,239 --> 01:40:46,880
into a fight. Patriotism means love of your place, love

1423
01:40:46,960 --> 01:40:52,119
of the people that put you there, some affirmation of

1424
01:40:52,159 --> 01:40:55,520
your heritage. You see something redeeming about where you came

1425
01:40:55,600 --> 01:41:00,560
from what you are. And this is very important because

1426
01:41:00,600 --> 01:41:06,239
we very seldom transcend that Homer said, the son is

1427
01:41:06,319 --> 01:41:10,800
seldom better than his father. I think we can look

1428
01:41:10,840 --> 01:41:14,800
at experience to bear that out. If we want to

1429
01:41:14,880 --> 01:41:19,600
know what we can be, we look at our parents.

1430
01:41:20,199 --> 01:41:25,399
That's the first place that we look. What are our characteristics?

1431
01:41:26,119 --> 01:41:29,039
What can we do with our lives? Our parents give

1432
01:41:29,159 --> 01:41:32,119
us the primary image of those things, which is one

1433
01:41:32,119 --> 01:41:34,960
of the reasons why we're commanded in scripture to love

1434
01:41:35,000 --> 01:41:38,279
our father and mother, the first command given with a

1435
01:41:38,319 --> 01:41:40,680
promise that our days may be long on the land

1436
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:46,399
the Lord, our God has given us. So we need

1437
01:41:46,439 --> 01:41:49,880
to take into account our circumstances so that we can

1438
01:41:50,000 --> 01:41:54,960
see what does it mean to love this country and

1439
01:41:55,039 --> 01:41:59,359
what should we do under these circumstances. A writer that

1440
01:41:59,560 --> 01:42:03,199
I love on this point, who is popular in our circles,

1441
01:42:04,279 --> 01:42:06,239
A guy that you really ought to go and read

1442
01:42:06,319 --> 01:42:10,720
if you haven't already. Thanks to Imperium Press he is

1443
01:42:11,039 --> 01:42:14,239
once again readily accessible. We have an awful lot to

1444
01:42:14,239 --> 01:42:18,960
be thankful for. There at Imperium Press, they've started republishing

1445
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:22,359
the works of Joseph de Maistro. So go and get

1446
01:42:22,399 --> 01:42:25,159
your copy. If you haven't already, you need to read him.

1447
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:26,960
He's the ultimate.

1448
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:30,159
Speaker 8: Hey there looking for car insurance that's simple, fast and

1449
01:42:30,199 --> 01:42:32,399
comes with a little extra. That's red click You can

1450
01:42:32,399 --> 01:42:34,560
save up to three hundred zero a new quote online

1451
01:42:34,640 --> 01:42:37,399
that's up to three hundred duro and you were backpocket insurance.

1452
01:42:37,399 --> 01:42:40,720
That's easy insurance, that's quick. Visit redklick dot eve online.

1453
01:42:40,720 --> 01:42:43,199
Speaker 9: Discut applies to new private car policies only. Maximum discant

1454
01:42:43,199 --> 01:42:45,840
three under durow, subject to minimum premium applied before optional covers.

1455
01:42:45,840 --> 01:42:49,560
Acceptance criteria tasincy supply generally is Baniysagoresi rais course essay

1456
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:51,479
trading is red click In generally is authorized by the

1457
01:42:51,479 --> 01:42:53,600
General Directors of Insurance and Pension PUNS in Spain and

1458
01:42:53,680 --> 01:42:56,319
is regulated by the Centralank of Arland for consumer protection rules.

1459
01:42:58,079 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 5: Traditional monarchist guy. He's the Roman Catholic answer to Edmund Burke,

1460
01:43:04,039 --> 01:43:07,880
and I love Burke. But Joseph to Mestra said that

1461
01:43:07,920 --> 01:43:13,800
the constitution is the work of circumstances. And I'll just

1462
01:43:13,840 --> 01:43:18,079
read a quote to on this point. Demestra said, what

1463
01:43:18,199 --> 01:43:21,560
is a constitution? Is it not merely the solution to

1464
01:43:21,600 --> 01:43:26,279
the following problem. Given the population, the mores, the religion,

1465
01:43:26,720 --> 01:43:32,079
the geographic situation, the political circumstances, the wealth, the good

1466
01:43:32,239 --> 01:43:36,600
and bad qualities of a particular nation. To find the

1467
01:43:36,680 --> 01:43:43,239
laws that suit it, we need to know what our

1468
01:43:43,359 --> 01:43:49,640
situation is. And I regret that we were in serious

1469
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:55,960
decline culturally. We are not well suited to be governed

1470
01:43:56,039 --> 01:44:03,720
by the Philadelphia Constitution anymore. It's not that we've outgrown it,

1471
01:44:03,720 --> 01:44:08,600
it's that we've grown too small for it. We've become

1472
01:44:08,720 --> 01:44:13,319
morally stunted. Think of what President John Adams said that

1473
01:44:13,760 --> 01:44:18,119
the Constitution is fit for a religious people only. It's

1474
01:44:18,239 --> 01:44:24,399
wholly unsuited for an irreligious people. We still have a

1475
01:44:24,439 --> 01:44:27,439
lot more religious adherents than Europe, and of course that's

1476
01:44:27,479 --> 01:44:30,600
partly a regional phenomenon. Some parts of the country are

1477
01:44:30,640 --> 01:44:39,520
far more religious than others. And I truly love my history.

1478
01:44:41,039 --> 01:44:44,640
I do deeply love this country, and it does not

1479
01:44:44,960 --> 01:44:50,359
please me to say it. But the Constitution is not

1480
01:44:50,880 --> 01:44:55,439
limiting our government. The Constitution has failed to limit our government,

1481
01:44:56,680 --> 01:45:02,159
and the Constitution is no longer the fit framework to

1482
01:45:02,359 --> 01:45:10,560
rule a people such as us. And I will return

1483
01:45:10,680 --> 01:45:16,880
back to AA's point, the Union would be best to

1484
01:45:16,920 --> 01:45:23,840
be dissolved. Now I realized that could mean civil war

1485
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:26,680
once again. What happened last the last time the Union

1486
01:45:26,840 --> 01:45:31,039
was declared dissolved, and I don't want war. I'm a

1487
01:45:31,119 --> 01:45:35,199
reluctant radical in this sense. I'm just saying what we

1488
01:45:35,359 --> 01:45:38,680
have doesn't work and holding on to it out of

1489
01:45:38,680 --> 01:45:43,039
a misplaced loyalty to our heritage and past one I'm

1490
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:46,000
a mistake I'm very likely to make. By the way,

1491
01:45:47,359 --> 01:45:50,600
I have a lot of sympathy for those in those

1492
01:45:50,640 --> 01:45:57,720
circumstances that feel a loyalty to the old Republic. My

1493
01:45:58,159 --> 01:46:03,239
contention is that it's gone. It was dissolved in several revolutions,

1494
01:46:05,039 --> 01:46:12,600
the Civil War, the New Deal, the Wilson administration. Maybe

1495
01:46:12,600 --> 01:46:14,840
these things should not have happened, and we can talk

1496
01:46:14,880 --> 01:46:21,000
about that in an academic setting, but still they have happened.

1497
01:46:21,039 --> 01:46:27,199
Their fade a complete, and we need to measure our circumstances. Now,

1498
01:46:27,960 --> 01:46:33,560
what is fit to rule us? Now? On your telegram

1499
01:46:33,640 --> 01:46:37,399
channel a couple of days ago, I wrote a series

1500
01:46:37,479 --> 01:46:42,319
of resolutions with this in mind, just to get just

1501
01:46:42,319 --> 01:46:47,199
to get some feedback from our crowd on on your

1502
01:46:47,279 --> 01:46:51,840
private chat. One of one of the things that I

1503
01:46:51,880 --> 01:46:56,000
wrote was resolved the veneration of the Constitution at this

1504
01:46:56,119 --> 01:46:59,560
late hour of our history has done more to paralyze

1505
01:46:59,600 --> 01:47:03,000
than hell help our political allies, and thus the Constitution

1506
01:47:03,159 --> 01:47:06,680
ought to be called a failed attempt to limit the government.

1507
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:12,920
And I also asked, I guess more out of curiosity.

1508
01:47:13,000 --> 01:47:17,119
I have my own opinions about this, but we need

1509
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:20,840
to ask questions about what comes afterwards. Ryan turnip Seed

1510
01:47:21,199 --> 01:47:24,680
has been insightful on this point. I'm not sure he's

1511
01:47:24,680 --> 01:47:27,640
written at length on it, but he's at least made

1512
01:47:27,640 --> 01:47:30,000
comments on this point that we have to have a

1513
01:47:30,000 --> 01:47:33,239
positive vision so that we know we aren't jumping from

1514
01:47:33,279 --> 01:47:35,920
the frying pan into the fire. We obviously don't want

1515
01:47:35,920 --> 01:47:40,520
things to get worse. I'm not sure that the Constitution

1516
01:47:40,680 --> 01:47:45,720
is really helping us at this point. It is. It's

1517
01:47:47,159 --> 01:47:53,560
clay in the hands of the judges, right. But another

1518
01:47:53,640 --> 01:47:56,560
resolution that I shared with your group, and I'd be

1519
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:01,520
very curious for feedback here. By the way, resolved the

1520
01:48:01,680 --> 01:48:04,680
end of the union could lead to non republican forms

1521
01:48:04,680 --> 01:48:05,199
of government.

1522
01:48:07,159 --> 01:48:10,319
Speaker 2: I think it's interesting because and Paul has made this point,

1523
01:48:10,319 --> 01:48:12,840
and I think it's a good one that essentially you're

1524
01:48:12,920 --> 01:48:15,720
kind of stuck with the political baggage of your system.

1525
01:48:16,039 --> 01:48:19,720
You're stuck with the symbols kind of regardless of what

1526
01:48:20,159 --> 01:48:26,520
the system becomes. And so at least to me, right,

1527
01:48:26,600 --> 01:48:29,359
I agree with you. You know, I don't think that

1528
01:48:30,000 --> 01:48:33,159
whatever comes next will be what the you know, what

1529
01:48:33,199 --> 01:48:37,159
the constitutionalists and the boomer counts want. But it's hard

1530
01:48:37,159 --> 01:48:39,159
for me to imagine a world in which it isn't

1531
01:48:39,279 --> 01:48:42,880
kind of at least wearing the symbols of what has

1532
01:48:43,000 --> 01:48:46,279
kind of come before it. So recently, obviously, like I

1533
01:48:46,319 --> 01:48:49,039
said before, I've been ill. And so what I do

1534
01:48:49,079 --> 01:48:52,960
when I get ill is I essentially go through the

1535
01:48:53,000 --> 01:48:55,720
Distributis backlog and there's kind of like a big playlist

1536
01:48:55,760 --> 01:48:56,760
as I kind of like sit there.

1537
01:48:57,479 --> 01:48:59,960
Speaker 5: Oh, now that's a wholesome thing to do.

1538
01:49:01,079 --> 01:49:03,399
Speaker 2: It is, and he has a series of streams and

1539
01:49:03,439 --> 01:49:05,279
I missed this that wasn't in the scene at the time,

1540
01:49:05,760 --> 01:49:10,039
but talking essentially about you know, propertarianism, which was a

1541
01:49:10,159 --> 01:49:13,119
you know now defunct, you know, micro ideology of you know,

1542
01:49:13,199 --> 01:49:18,039
essentially like constitutional libertarianism. But he essentially he uses this

1543
01:49:18,079 --> 01:49:22,199
analogy of essentially calling it a you know, a ghost dance, right,

1544
01:49:22,239 --> 01:49:25,079
which was something that the Plains Indians did, you know,

1545
01:49:25,159 --> 01:49:28,720
as kind of the US US military kind of like

1546
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:30,960
drove them from their lands, which is they essentially were like,

1547
01:49:30,960 --> 01:49:34,199
all right, well, well what did we do when we

1548
01:49:34,199 --> 01:49:37,399
were great? And what did we do when we were powerful? Well,

1549
01:49:37,439 --> 01:49:40,199
we did ghost dances, you know, we did these elaborate

1550
01:49:40,279 --> 01:49:43,880
religious ceremonies, you know, kind of doing something that is

1551
01:49:45,920 --> 01:49:48,279
it's almost it's comforting to do. You know, it's something

1552
01:49:48,319 --> 01:49:50,680
that's kind of embedded in the cultural memory, and it

1553
01:49:50,760 --> 01:49:53,439
is something associated you know, at a time in which

1554
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:57,359
you were you were great, right, but that's not necessarily

1555
01:49:57,399 --> 01:49:59,640
the reason you were great. There were other things and

1556
01:49:59,720 --> 01:50:03,319
merely kind of like aping that won't won't bring it back,

1557
01:50:03,479 --> 01:50:05,720
you know, it won't make it won't make the cowbalry

1558
01:50:05,760 --> 01:50:08,199
go away. And so to me, a lot of I

1559
01:50:08,199 --> 01:50:10,800
feel like constitution worship is very much the same thing.

1560
01:50:11,239 --> 01:50:12,520
You know, it's like, oh, well, if we just do

1561
01:50:12,600 --> 01:50:17,880
the constitution more, do the constitution harder, we can essentially

1562
01:50:17,920 --> 01:50:19,600
like stave it back. And I think that you know,

1563
01:50:19,640 --> 01:50:22,880
at Domeister's point, it stands right that essentially like a constitution,

1564
01:50:23,520 --> 01:50:25,479
And I realized this kind of flies in the face

1565
01:50:25,520 --> 01:50:29,680
of a lot of you know, like our history, especially

1566
01:50:29,720 --> 01:50:32,840
when it comes to kind of judicial history, right, that

1567
01:50:33,439 --> 01:50:35,119
there is really something to be said that kind of

1568
01:50:35,159 --> 01:50:39,880
like a constitution is made for a people at a

1569
01:50:39,920 --> 01:50:40,479
certain time.

1570
01:50:42,720 --> 01:50:45,880
Speaker 5: And are so much of the contention and the Supreme

1571
01:50:45,920 --> 01:50:52,199
Court has to do with the circumstances, which ironically it

1572
01:50:52,319 --> 01:50:57,600
makes the leftist tradition in the Supreme Court or along

1573
01:50:57,600 --> 01:50:58,680
the lines of De Maestra.

1574
01:50:59,560 --> 01:51:03,000
Speaker 2: Then, yes, it's an odd position to find yourself in.

1575
01:51:03,479 --> 01:51:12,800
Speaker 5: Yes, I go through if we cut ourselves off from

1576
01:51:13,119 --> 01:51:18,079
the the ties to the Constitution, we have no idea

1577
01:51:18,159 --> 01:51:22,800
where we would end up. And this is partly Edmund

1578
01:51:22,840 --> 01:51:29,359
Burke's great point. It's a very skeptical point. We might

1579
01:51:29,399 --> 01:51:33,199
as well hold on to what we've got because if

1580
01:51:33,239 --> 01:51:40,079
we cast loose, we could be destroyed by far worse

1581
01:51:40,199 --> 01:51:43,960
monsters than the ones we have here with us now.

1582
01:51:45,279 --> 01:51:51,880
And and that's a fair point. But I'm I I

1583
01:51:51,920 --> 01:51:57,199
contend that we can't continue on this way much longer.

1584
01:52:00,359 --> 01:52:05,520
There is some polling organization or some social research organization.

1585
01:52:06,239 --> 01:52:11,079
I just cited their name, c SPI. I'm not sure

1586
01:52:11,359 --> 01:52:14,359
who they are, what that stands for, but they just

1587
01:52:14,520 --> 01:52:19,760
recently published some sort of survey of American college students

1588
01:52:20,520 --> 01:52:26,680
and according to their survey, forty percent are identifying as LGBTQ.

1589
01:52:29,960 --> 01:52:33,000
And of course that does not mean that forty percent

1590
01:52:33,159 --> 01:52:39,800
are getting sterilized, but we do know that those numbers

1591
01:52:40,239 --> 01:52:44,640
are rising very sharply, and there is a serious social

1592
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:52,439
contagion there. The generation that we see coming into adulthood

1593
01:52:53,319 --> 01:52:57,640
is not going to successfully reproduce itself. That in itself,

1594
01:53:01,560 --> 01:53:08,720
that's really catastrophic. All the talk right now is about inflation.

1595
01:53:09,199 --> 01:53:13,359
We have very serious deflation on the horizon as well,

1596
01:53:13,399 --> 01:53:18,920
and maybe maybe our lords and masters know that, which

1597
01:53:18,960 --> 01:53:23,520
is why they have inflated right now. I don't know.

1598
01:53:23,600 --> 01:53:27,520
That's all speculation, and I have a bad track record

1599
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:35,319
of making those kinds of bets. But still we're in

1600
01:53:35,319 --> 01:53:40,479
a really bad situation. People, Americans in particular, will be

1601
01:53:41,399 --> 01:53:47,199
seriously disillusioned with our institutions are already. Institutional trust is

1602
01:53:47,239 --> 01:53:51,319
at record lows across the board. COVID did a lot

1603
01:53:51,359 --> 01:53:57,600
to undermine trust in the police, trust in the medical institutions,

1604
01:53:58,760 --> 01:54:03,199
Congress has been you know, rated in the single digits

1605
01:54:03,279 --> 01:54:08,760
for a long time, for ten years or more. You

1606
01:54:08,800 --> 01:54:13,680
know what institutions do Americans really trust anymore? These things

1607
01:54:13,960 --> 01:54:21,119
really could collapse. And here's here's where I think that

1608
01:54:21,159 --> 01:54:25,119
I'm actually I could actually be accused of being too optimistic,

1609
01:54:25,479 --> 01:54:32,479
all right. I think that in my hopeful proposal to

1610
01:54:33,039 --> 01:54:37,039
divide the Union in any way, Okay, I'm not really

1611
01:54:37,039 --> 01:54:39,560
particular about that at all. All it would take would

1612
01:54:39,560 --> 01:54:43,159
be one state or one region to try to do it,

1613
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:47,720
and that would set off the other regions and states.

1614
01:54:48,439 --> 01:54:52,279
A lot of people would get the idea as soon

1615
01:54:52,319 --> 01:54:56,239
as anyone tried it, just like in eighteen sixty. By

1616
01:54:56,279 --> 01:55:02,760
the way, but that actually gives us a chance to

1617
01:55:02,840 --> 01:55:08,880
preserve something. I am not at all of the opinion

1618
01:55:09,600 --> 01:55:15,800
that we can realistically ah that we that we could

1619
01:55:16,239 --> 01:55:21,359
dream or plan to seize the institutions of power in

1620
01:55:21,439 --> 01:55:27,439
this society today. Call it the populist delusion, if you will.

1621
01:55:28,640 --> 01:55:31,279
I don't. I don't think that it works, and if

1622
01:55:31,399 --> 01:55:38,319
it got any traction, it would be fortified. Call me

1623
01:55:38,399 --> 01:55:44,039
a black pillar, okay, but let's be realistic about our situation.

1624
01:55:46,439 --> 01:55:50,079
I don't put stock in that I think. I think

1625
01:55:50,119 --> 01:55:53,479
that we either wait for it to begin to collapse

1626
01:55:53,520 --> 01:55:56,399
and then we act, and by doing so we can

1627
01:55:56,520 --> 01:55:58,600
we can preserve the things, some of the things that

1628
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:03,319
we love. We can reconstitute some institutions. I think that

1629
01:56:03,680 --> 01:56:10,479
universities should be dissolved and reconstituted from scratch. Maybe I

1630
01:56:11,159 --> 01:56:12,920
don't know. We would want to give them the same

1631
01:56:13,000 --> 01:56:15,960
names they had before, but you know, the physical plant

1632
01:56:16,000 --> 01:56:19,600
is worth something. But you'd have to have very stringent

1633
01:56:20,159 --> 01:56:24,439
interviews to hire back any faculty or staff. Compared to

1634
01:56:24,479 --> 01:56:26,720
the universities we have now, the universities we have now

1635
01:56:26,760 --> 01:56:31,720
turned people into transsexual socialists. Let's be clear, and that's

1636
01:56:31,720 --> 01:56:35,159
what they're meant to do at this stage. If they

1637
01:56:35,199 --> 01:56:38,039
aren't doing that, they are failing in their mission statements.

1638
01:56:39,479 --> 01:56:46,560
Let's not delude ourselves. The same for the public school system, right,

1639
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:52,840
in no sense, our school boards run by parents or

1640
01:56:52,880 --> 01:56:57,119
members of the community in touch or or in charge

1641
01:56:57,640 --> 01:57:00,520
with what goes on in the public schools, and the

1642
01:57:00,600 --> 01:57:04,039
kind of propaganda and subversion that is pitched to the students,

1643
01:57:05,439 --> 01:57:10,920
and it's wrecking them, is rendering them not just incapable

1644
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:13,920
of loving their country or relating to their ancestors in

1645
01:57:13,920 --> 01:57:18,399
a meaningful way, but it is alienating them from their

1646
01:57:18,439 --> 01:57:23,560
parents and faith. As a teacher, I've been with public

1647
01:57:23,600 --> 01:57:27,960
school teachers. I have heard public school teachers tell me, frankly,

1648
01:57:28,199 --> 01:57:33,319
they understood their goals as teachers to separate children from

1649
01:57:33,560 --> 01:57:38,880
the faith and teaching of their parents and churches. A

1650
01:57:38,920 --> 01:57:48,079
public school teacher has formulated that clearly for me, I

1651
01:57:48,079 --> 01:57:51,319
don't want to save those institutions. I'm not a conservative.

1652
01:57:53,159 --> 01:57:54,920
I think I spent most of my adult life calling

1653
01:57:54,960 --> 01:58:00,520
myself a conservative. I'm a radical. I'm not trying to

1654
01:58:00,520 --> 01:58:07,560
save those institutions. Let them go to hell. But I

1655
01:58:07,640 --> 01:58:11,880
love my country. I suppose i'm I suppose I'm I

1656
01:58:11,960 --> 01:58:14,479
really am opening myself up to a charge of treason,

1657
01:58:15,680 --> 01:58:21,119
and I am taking that seriously. But I do not

1658
01:58:21,239 --> 01:58:25,640
want to be ruled by DC. The constitution no longer

1659
01:58:25,640 --> 01:58:34,760
suits us. Our institutions are thoroughly corrupt, and I suppose

1660
01:58:34,800 --> 01:58:40,039
I could take a quietest approach and hope that we

1661
01:58:40,159 --> 01:58:44,079
can survive like Amish communities on the fringes of society.

1662
01:58:44,439 --> 01:58:51,439
But I would rather rather see conservative red states, if

1663
01:58:51,479 --> 01:58:56,119
you will, strike out on their own, and obviously, if

1664
01:58:56,520 --> 01:59:02,720
blue states did and founded socialist dictatorships or you know,

1665
01:59:02,880 --> 01:59:07,159
radical people's republics or something. I would actually cheer that

1666
01:59:07,279 --> 01:59:12,039
on as well, because it would at least get us

1667
01:59:12,399 --> 01:59:18,119
thinking about how to survive. AA had an interesting point

1668
01:59:18,159 --> 01:59:23,279
in that stream. He said the communist experiments had a

1669
01:59:23,319 --> 01:59:27,039
funny result and that they shored up social institutions because

1670
01:59:27,079 --> 01:59:30,560
communism is such a bad system, the only way they

1671
01:59:30,560 --> 01:59:35,119
could possibly survive was to shore up social institutions, which

1672
01:59:35,159 --> 01:59:39,279
is a fair point. I mean, it's I'm not I'm

1673
01:59:39,319 --> 01:59:42,880
not endorsing that, but it is a fair point.

1674
01:59:47,039 --> 01:59:49,239
Speaker 2: No, I see what you're getting. And to me, that

1675
01:59:49,359 --> 01:59:55,239
is I think the real like dividing line. It's really

1676
01:59:55,319 --> 01:59:58,159
kind of important between kind of like the Americans in

1677
01:59:58,199 --> 02:00:01,039
this scene, you know, where essentially and I think that

1678
02:00:01,079 --> 02:00:03,359
this really is, you know, what we can describe as

1679
02:00:03,439 --> 02:00:06,880
the lines between the either the radicals and the conservatives

1680
02:00:06,920 --> 02:00:09,479
or the radicals and the reactionaries, you know, and if

1681
02:00:09,479 --> 02:00:13,560
the idea is essentially and this is what I think

1682
02:00:13,640 --> 02:00:15,479
you see with kind of like the softer edge of

1683
02:00:15,479 --> 02:00:17,920
our movement, is the idea that well, well, the problem

1684
02:00:17,960 --> 02:00:22,119
is just you know, we essentially went wrong somewhere in

1685
02:00:22,159 --> 02:00:25,000
the past, you know, fifty one hundred years, you know,

1686
02:00:25,000 --> 02:00:26,439
and it all would have been fine if we had

1687
02:00:26,479 --> 02:00:30,199
just kind of stuck to those you know, original principles.

1688
02:00:31,079 --> 02:00:33,039
And I have a certain degree of sympathy for that.

1689
02:00:33,119 --> 02:00:36,279
But the idea that you can essentially just go back upstream,

1690
02:00:36,800 --> 02:00:39,159
you know, a decade or two at a time, and

1691
02:00:39,199 --> 02:00:41,319
then just freeze it there, you know, that you can

1692
02:00:41,399 --> 02:00:44,000
just be like, all right, well we can go back

1693
02:00:44,079 --> 02:00:47,279
to you know, kind of like two thousand, or go

1694
02:00:47,359 --> 02:00:52,119
back to you know, nineteen fifty five. I'm just not convinced.

1695
02:00:52,119 --> 02:00:54,479
And I'm honestly, I'm a little bit confused how you

1696
02:00:54,520 --> 02:00:57,239
can and maybe you don't think that directly, but how

1697
02:00:57,279 --> 02:01:00,520
you can think that in effect and still out in

1698
02:01:00,560 --> 02:01:04,319
these circles. And I don't know.

1699
02:01:04,560 --> 02:01:07,720
Speaker 5: I also have a lot of sympathy. I've got a

1700
02:01:07,720 --> 02:01:09,199
lot of sympathy for what you're talking about.

1701
02:01:09,279 --> 02:01:13,479
Speaker 2: Go ahead, no, And so I, to a certain degree

1702
02:01:13,560 --> 02:01:16,239
have have some sympathy for that, like you and I

1703
02:01:16,319 --> 02:01:19,319
obviously you know, you were a large intellectual influence on me.

1704
02:01:19,399 --> 02:01:21,960
Like I grew up on Burke. I read a lot

1705
02:01:22,000 --> 02:01:24,039
of Burke in high school, you know, when we were

1706
02:01:24,199 --> 02:01:26,840
when we were in class together, And so I really

1707
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:29,880
like absorbed that, you know, reflections on the revolution in France.

1708
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:32,239
That's that's sitting on my shelf, you know, behind you know,

1709
02:01:32,279 --> 02:01:35,039
where I record this. But to me, there's something to

1710
02:01:35,079 --> 02:01:36,800
be said for the fact that like that is you know,

1711
02:01:36,880 --> 02:01:38,840
much like a constitution that is an idea kind of

1712
02:01:39,000 --> 02:01:42,960
serted suited for a situation. You know, that is an

1713
02:01:43,000 --> 02:01:46,199
idea that you know, realistically right, like a conservative tact

1714
02:01:46,279 --> 02:01:50,000
made sense, you know, in the nineteenth century, made sense

1715
02:01:50,039 --> 02:01:52,960
in the seventeenth century. But now it's almost like and

1716
02:01:53,000 --> 02:01:55,159
this is not a you know, a particularly original point,

1717
02:01:55,159 --> 02:01:57,479
but it's like, well, what is there what is there

1718
02:01:57,600 --> 02:02:00,840
left to conserve? You know, this actually like the post

1719
02:02:00,880 --> 02:02:04,359
seventies economic system of US just you know, bullying everyone

1720
02:02:04,439 --> 02:02:07,319
around with the petro dollar, you know. And it's hard

1721
02:02:07,359 --> 02:02:12,159
because I share your kind of like love for you know,

1722
02:02:12,239 --> 02:02:15,640
your love for my country. It just is is kind

1723
02:02:15,680 --> 02:02:18,560
of and so I find myself in an odd spot,

1724
02:02:18,600 --> 02:02:21,279
like you said, kind of like dancing around this kind

1725
02:02:21,319 --> 02:02:24,079
of like trees and this idea, and I very much

1726
02:02:24,119 --> 02:02:26,359
find myself, you know, in agreement with you. And it's

1727
02:02:26,399 --> 02:02:28,439
not something that I take likely and it's not something

1728
02:02:28,439 --> 02:02:31,720
that I am I guess comfortable with in the sense

1729
02:02:31,760 --> 02:02:35,159
that I think in a different time, I would, you know,

1730
02:02:35,319 --> 02:02:37,560
be very much a patriot, but now I can't. It's

1731
02:02:37,600 --> 02:02:39,079
hard to describe myself as such.

1732
02:02:41,439 --> 02:02:46,760
Speaker 5: Well, I I'm calling myself a patriot. And it's funny.

1733
02:02:46,760 --> 02:02:54,239
I have studied and talked about the patriots of seventeen

1734
02:02:54,359 --> 02:02:59,239
seventy six, you know, the Patriot Party in the American Revolution,

1735
02:03:00,199 --> 02:03:04,920
War for Independence, and I go through, I go through

1736
02:03:05,000 --> 02:03:10,960
phases or cycles, and it kind of it has told

1737
02:03:11,000 --> 02:03:15,920
me something about myself over the years. Sometimes my sympathies

1738
02:03:15,960 --> 02:03:21,079
are very much with the Tories, the loyalists, and I

1739
02:03:21,119 --> 02:03:23,840
really understand where they're coming from, and I like to

1740
02:03:23,920 --> 02:03:26,760
imagine I would be in their number if I was

1741
02:03:26,800 --> 02:03:33,680
facing these things. And other times like now, it was

1742
02:03:35,560 --> 02:03:38,880
the year of the lockdowns and such, and I remember

1743
02:03:38,920 --> 02:03:47,479
having the conversation several times that we are nothing like

1744
02:03:48,239 --> 02:03:53,880
those men. Now there is no Samuel Adams among us.

1745
02:03:55,000 --> 02:04:00,159
If there was, there would have been more resistance to

1746
02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:06,439
the destruction of those years. In one sense, I remember,

1747
02:04:06,479 --> 02:04:12,720
I remember my reflection those the years of the COVID

1748
02:04:13,079 --> 02:04:19,399
stuff was from Julius Caesar. Cassius says Rome, thou hast

1749
02:04:19,439 --> 02:04:25,359
lost the breed of noble bloods, and he says Caesar

1750
02:04:25,399 --> 02:04:28,079
would not be a wolf if the Romans were not cheap.

1751
02:04:30,239 --> 02:04:36,119
I remember reflecting on hl Mincoln's reflections or hl Mincin's

1752
02:04:36,159 --> 02:04:41,359
quotes about Americans being sheep led to the slaughter, Americans

1753
02:04:41,399 --> 02:04:48,239
being meek followers of malicious demagogues, And we ought to

1754
02:04:48,319 --> 02:04:51,119
know that about ourselves. We ought to know our limitations,

1755
02:04:51,159 --> 02:04:55,840
our weaknesses. But I love this country. I contend I

1756
02:04:55,920 --> 02:05:04,479
love it. It's mine. There are perhaps other countries more lovable,

1757
02:05:05,039 --> 02:05:12,039
more lovely, but this is mine, and I belong to it,

1758
02:05:12,079 --> 02:05:15,039
and it belongs to me, and my destiny is tied

1759
02:05:15,119 --> 02:05:21,640
up in it. But I think that we we can

1760
02:05:21,640 --> 02:05:26,840
think of ourselves as more traditional nations, and we can

1761
02:05:28,319 --> 02:05:33,439
we can imagine other political destinies for ourselves. The Constitution

1762
02:05:33,520 --> 02:05:38,039
should not be a suicide pact, and we ought to

1763
02:05:38,039 --> 02:05:41,439
be able to think of our destiny outside of it.

1764
02:05:42,279 --> 02:05:46,439
We have something to fall back on, ready made for us.

1765
02:05:46,920 --> 02:05:49,439
That's part of our historical inheritance, and that is the

1766
02:05:49,439 --> 02:05:53,720
states themselves. The states themselves are are still political units.

1767
02:05:55,279 --> 02:05:59,399
They do not command much loyalty from their citizens anymore.

1768
02:05:59,439 --> 02:06:03,239
Their citizen and don't necessarily identify themselves with through states anymore.

1769
02:06:03,960 --> 02:06:07,920
They may have this ideological national conception. They may live,

1770
02:06:09,239 --> 02:06:11,520
they may just think of themselves as Americans. They don't

1771
02:06:11,560 --> 02:06:13,960
think of themselves in relation to their native state. But

1772
02:06:14,199 --> 02:06:19,079
regional and state identities still do exist, and that is

1773
02:06:20,000 --> 02:06:23,880
something that we may fall back on eventually. I hope

1774
02:06:23,880 --> 02:06:25,640
we do well.

1775
02:06:25,720 --> 02:06:28,640
Speaker 2: And that's something that I I want to discuss because

1776
02:06:28,640 --> 02:06:31,279
you and I mentioned that, you know, before we went live,

1777
02:06:32,960 --> 02:06:36,159
that there's kind of this and it's an understanding. It's

1778
02:06:36,159 --> 02:06:39,079
an understandable mistake. You know, I probably do it myself

1779
02:06:39,119 --> 02:06:44,119
quite often, but kind of conflating nation as in you know,

1780
02:06:44,199 --> 02:06:46,680
he's a biblic for example, right like the nation of

1781
02:06:46,760 --> 02:06:48,840
Judah or as it's probably triggered the chap, you know

1782
02:06:48,880 --> 02:06:51,000
what I mean. A nation is in like a you know,

1783
02:06:51,239 --> 02:06:56,279
an identifiable ethnos and then nation state and those are

1784
02:06:56,800 --> 02:07:01,079
are two very different things, you know, And you've said

1785
02:07:01,119 --> 02:07:02,880
before on the stream, right the idea of kind of

1786
02:07:02,920 --> 02:07:06,439
the peoples of America. You know that there are you know,

1787
02:07:06,640 --> 02:07:12,199
multiple kind of like independent cultures that really are and

1788
02:07:12,359 --> 02:07:16,399
obviously they haven't essentially you know really since you know,

1789
02:07:16,399 --> 02:07:18,439
the last one hundred years speaven before that they haven't

1790
02:07:18,439 --> 02:07:21,960
really been treated as such, but they really are kind

1791
02:07:21,960 --> 02:07:25,600
of irreconcilable differences between people who live here, you know,

1792
02:07:25,600 --> 02:07:29,640
and that is I think become more and more apparent.

1793
02:07:30,760 --> 02:07:34,239
And it is frustrating, right when you see from your

1794
02:07:34,239 --> 02:07:39,680
friends the kind of like Linconian and wilson Esk like

1795
02:07:39,800 --> 02:07:43,239
rhetoric that you, ordinarily they would kind of disagree with.

1796
02:07:43,319 --> 02:07:45,039
You know, when someone punches them in the nose, they

1797
02:07:45,079 --> 02:07:47,560
you know, they flash red and turn into Abraham Lincoln again.

1798
02:07:49,520 --> 02:07:55,319
Speaker 5: Yes, yeah, I certainly did see that with the whole

1799
02:07:55,399 --> 02:08:00,720
American question in AA's sphere, as this has kind of

1800
02:08:00,720 --> 02:08:07,560
been churning on social media. Yeah, it uh, it really

1801
02:08:07,560 --> 02:08:12,600
does interest me that Americans have instinctively identified with the

1802
02:08:12,640 --> 02:08:20,000
propositional nation thesis in solidarity. They were they were feeling

1803
02:08:20,039 --> 02:08:24,079
defensive and and we we certainly saw that on the

1804
02:08:24,119 --> 02:08:28,279
Cigar stream with a A. But you do know this

1805
02:08:28,399 --> 02:08:33,159
about me, that definition of nation is a big pet

1806
02:08:33,199 --> 02:08:36,279
peeve of mine. And I know that I am in

1807
02:08:36,359 --> 02:08:45,319
the minority here. Most Americans will will make nation a

1808
02:08:45,359 --> 02:08:50,399
synonym for government. That is our accepted usage. I do

1809
02:08:50,520 --> 02:08:55,439
not deny that, but I say that it clouds clear

1810
02:08:55,560 --> 02:08:58,319
thinking on the subject. Now, this is this is actually

1811
02:08:58,399 --> 02:09:01,359
one of the things that made people will really upset

1812
02:09:01,439 --> 02:09:06,039
with AA when he was saying America must be destroyed

1813
02:09:06,399 --> 02:09:12,800
and things like that just disturb people up when we

1814
02:09:13,319 --> 02:09:17,880
think that the destruction of DC, well just regular Americans

1815
02:09:18,079 --> 02:09:21,439
would think the destruction of the regime in DC means

1816
02:09:21,479 --> 02:09:26,359
the destruction of us as a people. We took it

1817
02:09:26,439 --> 02:09:32,079
to be an existential taunt or an existential threat or something,

1818
02:09:33,319 --> 02:09:35,680
and that's not actually what he meant. And he did

1819
02:09:35,800 --> 02:09:40,640
clarify himself on that. He said he has nothing against

1820
02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:45,439
regular Americans, right, He did say that clearly and several times,

1821
02:09:47,039 --> 02:09:49,920
and he said his beef is with the American regime,

1822
02:09:50,680 --> 02:09:55,520
which he would remind us is our cultural enemy. They're

1823
02:09:56,000 --> 02:10:00,960
avowedly so, right, And electing Trump didn't do anything about that.

1824
02:10:01,319 --> 02:10:07,600
By the way, A just back to my point, what

1825
02:10:07,720 --> 02:10:13,079
is a nation? A nation is a distinct group of people. Again,

1826
02:10:13,880 --> 02:10:18,960
this Russian guy that I like so much, Burdayev, he

1827
02:10:19,079 --> 02:10:24,960
said that a nation isn't made of one blood kindred,

1828
02:10:25,319 --> 02:10:29,159
it's not made of one language, it's not made of

1829
02:10:29,199 --> 02:10:36,279
one religion or one geographical region. Nations don't have all

1830
02:10:36,319 --> 02:10:39,880
of these things align for them. A nation can be

1831
02:10:39,880 --> 02:10:45,520
dispersed over several countries, jurisdictions. A nation can have more

1832
02:10:45,560 --> 02:10:49,279
than one language, a nation can have more than one religion.

1833
02:10:50,560 --> 02:10:53,319
But he said, the thing that does unite a nation

1834
02:10:54,800 --> 02:11:00,319
is a beautiful thought. He said, a oneness of historical fate.

1835
02:11:01,680 --> 02:11:09,039
That's what unites a nation. And I suppose with that

1836
02:11:09,319 --> 02:11:14,199
definition we could talk about an American nation to a degree.

1837
02:11:15,840 --> 02:11:21,039
But as you said, the ethnic tension, the ethnic element

1838
02:11:22,319 --> 02:11:28,159
remains a very distinct division in America today, in our

1839
02:11:28,279 --> 02:11:36,680
political discourse, in our demographics, in our geographic distribution. Many

1840
02:11:36,720 --> 02:11:41,439
different reasons why it remains a major issue still today.

1841
02:11:42,000 --> 02:11:46,239
And I would like to suggest, once again, kind of

1842
02:11:46,239 --> 02:11:49,680
going along my point previously, I think that there is

1843
02:11:49,760 --> 02:11:52,520
some kind of solution to be found in a regional

1844
02:11:54,319 --> 02:11:58,720
a regional reorganization or I don't think it's going to

1845
02:11:58,760 --> 02:12:05,439
follow state lines exactly, but at least state governments give

1846
02:12:05,560 --> 02:12:10,640
us a way to organize ourselves politically past the shelf

1847
02:12:10,640 --> 02:12:15,119
life of the union the federal government. Well, and we

1848
02:12:15,199 --> 02:12:18,880
might we might have some kind of national identity based

1849
02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:23,399
in place and shared destiny in that place. That really

1850
02:12:23,479 --> 02:12:30,359
is something to build on. I no one can imagine

1851
02:12:30,479 --> 02:12:35,760
the South without its ethnic mixture, if I can be

1852
02:12:35,840 --> 02:12:39,399
clear on that, this is why the ku Klux Klan

1853
02:12:39,720 --> 02:12:47,359
is ultimately a ultimately an ideological uh dream or something.

1854
02:12:47,760 --> 02:12:50,840
It's and it's not even very southern. And that's the

1855
02:12:50,880 --> 02:12:54,880
first or second, the second and third the second, and

1856
02:12:55,840 --> 02:12:58,760
I suppose the one that still exists, I suppose as

1857
02:12:58,800 --> 02:13:01,800
some some arm of the BiH.

1858
02:13:05,319 --> 02:13:06,600
Speaker 2: But no, no, carry on, I want I want to

1859
02:13:06,600 --> 02:13:07,359
hear you explain that.

1860
02:13:08,720 --> 02:13:13,399
Speaker 5: Oh about the KKK or something else. So why is

1861
02:13:13,439 --> 02:13:19,840
it an ideological project? Because it is an obsession with

1862
02:13:20,279 --> 02:13:25,359
one racial mixture in the southern region, well with the second,

1863
02:13:25,520 --> 02:13:29,600
with the second KKK. It it really was a white

1864
02:13:29,760 --> 02:13:34,199
nationalist organization, and it was stronger in the North and

1865
02:13:34,239 --> 02:13:36,840
the West than it was in the South, strangely enough,

1866
02:13:37,680 --> 02:13:40,039
and it seemed to be much more concerned about Catholics

1867
02:13:40,079 --> 02:13:44,880
and Jews than it was about black people because there

1868
02:13:44,920 --> 02:13:49,279
were hardly any blacks and Oregon, for instance, but that

1869
02:13:49,479 --> 02:13:54,800
was where the KKK took over the state government. I

1870
02:13:54,840 --> 02:13:59,359
don't think that it's a coincidence that Oregon is a

1871
02:13:59,399 --> 02:14:05,319
center of wokeness today when it was a KKK bastion

1872
02:14:05,680 --> 02:14:13,279
in the nineteen twenties. I think the ideological politics is

1873
02:14:13,279 --> 02:14:18,359
is a virus to follow the metaphor that academic agent

1874
02:14:18,439 --> 02:14:22,000
gave us, and I think it may have worked itself

1875
02:14:22,000 --> 02:14:28,359
out in anti fa today where it was you know,

1876
02:14:29,239 --> 02:14:33,720
KKK terrorism back in the twenties or something. It's funny

1877
02:14:33,760 --> 02:14:36,920
the second iteration of the ku klux Lan never took

1878
02:14:36,960 --> 02:14:42,439
over a southern state government. Well, that's over several northern ones.

1879
02:14:43,079 --> 02:14:45,560
Speaker 2: Well that's always the thing that I found so odd,

1880
02:14:45,800 --> 02:14:47,760
you know, is that and this is a you know,

1881
02:14:47,960 --> 02:14:51,479
a digression, but you know, people always assume it, you know,

1882
02:14:51,600 --> 02:14:54,720
very much like they associate it, you know with like Alabama, Mississippi,

1883
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:56,920
you know, largely because it's you know, the first KKK

1884
02:14:57,079 --> 02:15:00,640
you know, the reconstruction erae. But if you look at

1885
02:15:00,680 --> 02:15:04,399
I think I think the largest percentage of population involved

1886
02:15:04,399 --> 02:15:07,479
in the Klan was Connecticut, you know, which is alappable

1887
02:15:07,520 --> 02:15:09,439
when you say it, you know, you think of Connecticut now, right,

1888
02:15:09,479 --> 02:15:11,520
and it's like mystic Pizza and you know kind of

1889
02:15:11,560 --> 02:15:14,680
like New York and communities and then imagining you know,

1890
02:15:14,800 --> 02:15:19,279
like and I'm a firmly you know, anti Tarantino person,

1891
02:15:19,800 --> 02:15:23,760
but uh, you can imagine you know Django Unchained taking

1892
02:15:23,800 --> 02:15:27,439
place in Connecticut, and it's a completely comical idea.

1893
02:15:30,239 --> 02:15:35,359
Speaker 5: Indeed, it is very ironic. So is there anything else

1894
02:15:35,399 --> 02:15:37,279
you want to say? As we kind of reach time

1895
02:15:37,600 --> 02:15:39,760
about you know, the stream, are more things you want

1896
02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:45,000
to address? Well, I guess, I guess I did want

1897
02:15:45,039 --> 02:15:47,520
to say one other thing, and.

1898
02:15:47,520 --> 02:15:49,640
Speaker 2: If if you have time, I can go longer. I

1899
02:15:49,680 --> 02:15:52,399
realize you have real responsibilities, but I can, well, yeah,

1900
02:15:52,439 --> 02:15:53,159
say a little bit later.

1901
02:15:53,239 --> 02:15:57,359
Speaker 5: I did want to talk a bit in detail about

1902
02:15:57,479 --> 02:16:01,000
things that were actually said during the Cigar stream, and

1903
02:16:01,119 --> 02:16:06,359
I want to give everyone their due. Obviously, it's like

1904
02:16:06,359 --> 02:16:08,520
a three and a half hour stream, so we aren't

1905
02:16:08,520 --> 02:16:10,640
going to go very far on that, but let's start

1906
02:16:10,640 --> 02:16:13,640
with one with one issue, and we can we can

1907
02:16:14,000 --> 02:16:16,520
just consider it for a moment. The question of the

1908
02:16:16,560 --> 02:16:20,680
British Empire came up. Obviously, this was a debate between

1909
02:16:20,840 --> 02:16:26,479
Americans a Britisher. If we can call AA a British er,

1910
02:16:27,600 --> 02:16:31,840
please AA, don't don't take me to being for being

1911
02:16:31,920 --> 02:16:36,440
condescending or something. Oh, I'm just mentioning your origin, you know,

1912
02:16:36,760 --> 02:16:39,520
I'm I don't know if British er is is taken

1913
02:16:39,559 --> 02:16:43,200
to be condescending or not, but sometimes we call you that.

1914
02:16:43,360 --> 02:16:47,319
Here in the South. The question of the British Empire

1915
02:16:47,399 --> 02:16:55,440
was debated. AA said that the British Empire left ethnic

1916
02:16:55,520 --> 02:17:00,479
hierarchies in place when it went around the world, and

1917
02:17:00,520 --> 02:17:03,879
he said that was in contrast to the American Empire,

1918
02:17:04,040 --> 02:17:09,600
which was always subverting hierarchies and filling people with liberal

1919
02:17:09,639 --> 02:17:15,200
ideology and such. But I did want to offer a

1920
02:17:15,239 --> 02:17:20,920
retort to that. I agree that post eighteen ninety eight,

1921
02:17:21,600 --> 02:17:27,479
after the American Empire is kind of informally declared with

1922
02:17:27,600 --> 02:17:32,840
the Spanish American War, there was a previous tradition to that,

1923
02:17:33,639 --> 02:17:37,120
and that was one that was actually more imperial along

1924
02:17:37,159 --> 02:17:44,000
British lines. It was things like the Indian Reservations out west,

1925
02:17:45,319 --> 02:17:50,280
which had a way of preserving distinct national groups, and

1926
02:17:50,319 --> 02:17:54,559
we still call them, well, we still call them the

1927
02:17:54,680 --> 02:17:59,799
nations today, the Indian Reservations. We still colloquially refer to

1928
02:17:59,840 --> 02:18:04,680
these areas as the nations, which I think is a

1929
02:18:05,479 --> 02:18:10,200
good little clue in our common usage in America's day

1930
02:18:10,239 --> 02:18:13,120
of actually the true meaning of that word nation a

1931
02:18:13,159 --> 02:18:21,200
distinct ethnic group. But anyway, that question of the British

1932
02:18:21,200 --> 02:18:24,040
Empire is an interesting one. I think Clossington is going

1933
02:18:24,079 --> 02:18:26,879
to have a stream about that soon, about whether or

1934
02:18:26,959 --> 02:18:30,559
not the British Empire was a progressive enterprise. Did you

1935
02:18:30,600 --> 02:18:31,479
see something about that?

1936
02:18:32,959 --> 02:18:37,239
Speaker 2: I did. I this is someone embarrassing. I was not

1937
02:18:37,559 --> 02:18:41,479
involved in these fears when Classington kind of disappeared the

1938
02:18:41,479 --> 02:18:43,799
first time around, so I didn't realize that he was

1939
02:18:43,840 --> 02:18:48,639
an active producer until very recently. But I've been catching

1940
02:18:48,719 --> 02:18:50,200
up on his work and I'm very excited for that

1941
02:18:50,239 --> 02:18:51,479
stream and looking forward to it.

1942
02:18:52,040 --> 02:18:56,920
Speaker 5: Well, I am too, because I hear people talking about him,

1943
02:18:56,959 --> 02:19:02,440
but like you, I never really I never really caught

1944
02:19:02,520 --> 02:19:05,000
him on streams or anything, so I don't really know

1945
02:19:05,040 --> 02:19:08,520
what he stands for. But I read some of his

1946
02:19:08,600 --> 02:19:13,200
content and I like it, so I'm interested. To our friend,

1947
02:19:13,520 --> 02:19:21,040
Charlemagne opined about the Cigar stream and said that the

1948
02:19:21,680 --> 02:19:29,479
argument between the Americans and the Britishers on the American

1949
02:19:29,520 --> 02:19:34,319
presence in Europe in particular was pitiful. He said, believe

1950
02:19:34,360 --> 02:19:39,440
that's the word that he used. Charlemagne sided with our

1951
02:19:39,559 --> 02:19:45,680
American friends. Paul Fahrenheit, for instance, in this exchange with

1952
02:19:45,760 --> 02:19:51,639
aa AA, was blaming the American presence in Europe for

1953
02:19:51,799 --> 02:19:57,479
various specific troubles that Europe is having right now. Specifically,

1954
02:19:57,799 --> 02:20:02,239
I suppose foreign policy choice that are not favoring the

1955
02:20:02,280 --> 02:20:09,959
populations of Europe. I say, fair enough, why not be conciliatory,

1956
02:20:10,040 --> 02:20:15,440
Why not make concessions? After all, Europe really is in

1957
02:20:16,319 --> 02:20:20,520
for some serious suffering in the near term. Why not

1958
02:20:20,600 --> 02:20:28,040
make concessions on this point. But I'm not condemning Paul.

1959
02:20:29,440 --> 02:20:35,799
Paul had a very spirited position, and Paul came back saying,

1960
02:20:37,399 --> 02:20:41,280
those Europeans really love those American subsidies. Europe has not

1961
02:20:41,440 --> 02:20:44,479
had to defend itself since the end of World War Two.

1962
02:20:45,319 --> 02:20:51,879
European armies are jokes. Basically, they have not been investing

1963
02:20:52,000 --> 02:20:56,319
in technology or human resources for a couple of generations now,

1964
02:20:56,840 --> 02:20:59,959
and those Europeans just want to take advantage of Americans.

1965
02:21:01,680 --> 02:21:05,159
And if they had, if the Americans or no, no, no,

1966
02:21:05,200 --> 02:21:08,360
if the Europeans had decided to re arm and actually

1967
02:21:09,319 --> 02:21:12,479
reconstitute their armed forces, there would be little the Americans

1968
02:21:12,479 --> 02:21:18,479
could do to stop it. Our friend Charlemagne seconded Paul

1969
02:21:18,639 --> 02:21:27,120
on that is what I understand. He said that if

1970
02:21:27,239 --> 02:21:31,559
if the if Germany was to assert its foreign policy,

1971
02:21:31,920 --> 02:21:35,719
if Germany was to rebuild an army, the United States

1972
02:21:35,760 --> 02:21:41,159
couldn't do anything about that. Well, maybe maybe so, And

1973
02:21:41,680 --> 02:21:47,319
I'm I'm very frustrated with countries like Germany right now.

1974
02:21:48,360 --> 02:21:50,399
It doesn't seem to me that they deserve to be

1975
02:21:50,520 --> 02:21:54,479
called a representative government in any sense. They seem to

1976
02:21:54,520 --> 02:22:01,360
have been hijacked, maybe by American funded enterprises, maybe by

1977
02:22:01,639 --> 02:22:06,079
subversion from the State Department. Why not? The State Department

1978
02:22:06,120 --> 02:22:08,840
has been running things in Europe for quite a while

1979
02:22:08,959 --> 02:22:13,639
so far as I can tell. But my point is,

1980
02:22:13,680 --> 02:22:17,159
why why not give our Europeans some concessions on these points?

1981
02:22:18,520 --> 02:22:24,840
Do we Americans on the dissident right actually want the

1982
02:22:24,879 --> 02:22:30,280
American military in Europe? Do we want the American military

1983
02:22:31,520 --> 02:22:36,360
or the State Department making policy in Europe?

1984
02:22:37,239 --> 02:22:37,319
Speaker 4: No?

1985
02:22:39,280 --> 02:22:45,719
Speaker 5: Do we want American cultural exports like why even dignify

1986
02:22:45,799 --> 02:22:52,239
to name them? No, we don't. We don't want Europeans

1987
02:22:52,319 --> 02:22:56,879
drinking more Coca Cola, Let them drink beer. We don't

1988
02:22:56,920 --> 02:23:00,479
want them eating Dunkin Donuts. Let them eat their cake,

1989
02:23:00,600 --> 02:23:01,559
which is far better.

1990
02:23:02,239 --> 02:23:06,360
Speaker 3: Right, ready to energize your future, then apply today for

1991
02:23:06,760 --> 02:23:10,719
ESB Networks Electrical Apprenticeship Program where every day is different

1992
02:23:10,760 --> 02:23:14,840
from the next. To apply to ESB Networks Electrical apprenticeship program.

1993
02:23:15,040 --> 02:23:19,360
Visit ESB networks dot I E forward slash apprenticeships ESB

1994
02:23:19,559 --> 02:23:21,559
Networks energizing your.

1995
02:23:21,520 --> 02:23:25,040
Speaker 5: Everything to make a play on words.

1996
02:23:25,600 --> 02:23:27,719
Speaker 2: No, I agree, and it's actually a big part of

1997
02:23:27,760 --> 02:23:30,239
the reason I've been talking a lot with the you know,

1998
02:23:30,239 --> 02:23:34,760
with the Norwegian guys about this, where it's like there

1999
02:23:34,840 --> 02:23:37,479
is and this is like the idea behind globalhomo, right,

2000
02:23:37,559 --> 02:23:41,120
like there is a homogenization, you know, an americanization, and

2001
02:23:41,360 --> 02:23:44,639
that's both negatively affected us. You know, you know where

2002
02:23:44,680 --> 02:23:46,600
I live, right and you can see the difference in

2003
02:23:46,760 --> 02:23:50,959
essentially pre and post Empire architecture. You know, post Empire

2004
02:23:51,040 --> 02:23:53,879
architecture is horrible. You know, maybe you can say that

2005
02:23:53,879 --> 02:23:55,920
the FDR era stuff had a certain amount of sould

2006
02:23:55,920 --> 02:23:58,399
to it, but almost immediately after you know, kind of

2007
02:23:58,440 --> 02:24:01,399
like the War of World Conquest that just you know,

2008
02:24:01,520 --> 02:24:04,239
I went to Hell and you see that kind of

2009
02:24:04,280 --> 02:24:08,239
like forced on everyone else, this kind of you know,

2010
02:24:08,319 --> 02:24:12,680
like horrible, shapeless, you know, modern and postmodern architecture. So

2011
02:24:12,680 --> 02:24:15,479
I very much see what you're getting at. And I

2012
02:24:15,479 --> 02:24:19,200
I don't know, it's why I say, like I'm if

2013
02:24:19,200 --> 02:24:21,920
I were a European, I would be anti American and

2014
02:24:21,959 --> 02:24:24,559
proudly so well.

2015
02:24:24,600 --> 02:24:29,440
Speaker 5: I wonder if we could make a comparison between the

2016
02:24:29,520 --> 02:24:34,280
gay the global American Empire as we like to call it,

2017
02:24:34,479 --> 02:24:36,959
or the Empire of Lies, which really is a very

2018
02:24:37,000 --> 02:24:41,680
good term for it. I'm in full agreement with that term.

2019
02:24:42,600 --> 02:24:45,559
I wonder if we could make any comparison between that

2020
02:24:46,639 --> 02:24:49,680
and the Empires of Europe at the cusp of World

2021
02:24:49,719 --> 02:24:55,680
War One. One historian call them the sleepwalkers. Was that

2022
02:24:55,799 --> 02:24:57,879
Clark Carlton? Is that his name?

2023
02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:00,920
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but carry on.

2024
02:25:01,040 --> 02:25:03,120
Speaker 5: It's a it's a big book about World War One

2025
02:25:03,159 --> 02:25:05,840
that I want to read and I haven't, but it's

2026
02:25:05,879 --> 02:25:10,879
a it's a popular thesis that the Empires of Europe

2027
02:25:11,479 --> 02:25:17,600
were somnambulant giants that walked into conflict with one another.

2028
02:25:19,680 --> 02:25:25,600
Maybe the gay is also a sleepwalking empire. Maybe it

2029
02:25:25,760 --> 02:25:32,440
is a malicious zombie empire. You know what they have

2030
02:25:32,559 --> 02:25:41,520
in common, they do not have a operating mind. They're brainless.

2031
02:25:43,479 --> 02:25:46,639
Speaker 2: We little at anologies for this. I stole from someone

2032
02:25:46,680 --> 02:25:51,040
in kind of the more libertarian sphere, which is they

2033
02:25:51,120 --> 02:25:54,200
essentially described, you know, the US government as a you know,

2034
02:25:54,239 --> 02:25:58,079
one hundred foot tall baby with a chainsaw, and the

2035
02:25:58,159 --> 02:26:01,959
idea is that it's not smart. It's not it's not stable.

2036
02:26:02,079 --> 02:26:03,479
You know, it's going to come over. It's going to

2037
02:26:03,520 --> 02:26:06,559
fall over eventually. But if it catches you and it

2038
02:26:06,559 --> 02:26:09,079
grabs you in its hands, you're done, you know. And

2039
02:26:09,120 --> 02:26:12,280
there's no you know, like hive mind of you know,

2040
02:26:12,399 --> 02:26:15,479
like hyper intelligent you know, room and a man in

2041
02:26:15,520 --> 02:26:18,159
a back room, you know, smoking cigarettes, planning it all out.

2042
02:26:18,239 --> 02:26:21,600
It's just kind of a like incredibly powerful and incredibly

2043
02:26:21,639 --> 02:26:25,719
poorly directed force. But carry on, it's.

2044
02:26:25,639 --> 02:26:34,719
Speaker 5: Horrific, it's incredibly immoral. And if the American people not

2045
02:26:34,879 --> 02:26:38,040
to not to be too populist about it, but Americans

2046
02:26:38,079 --> 02:26:44,600
are horribly informed about these things. They do not get

2047
02:26:44,639 --> 02:26:48,159
good information about the actions of the empire, and they

2048
02:26:48,360 --> 02:26:52,639
have no historical awareness of what their military has done

2049
02:26:52,680 --> 02:26:57,840
around the world in their name. And they're absolutely mystified

2050
02:26:57,879 --> 02:27:01,239
when they hear that Americans are unpopular in various places

2051
02:27:01,239 --> 02:27:05,840
around the world. They have no idea why. And yes,

2052
02:27:05,959 --> 02:27:09,440
call them infantile and call them irresponsible for not taking

2053
02:27:09,440 --> 02:27:16,319
the trouble to learn right. Mark Twain, the anti imperialist,

2054
02:27:16,760 --> 02:27:22,000
he said God made war to teach Americans geography, and

2055
02:27:22,040 --> 02:27:26,920
that's a very good point. Americans really rarely know what

2056
02:27:26,959 --> 02:27:30,200
their country is doing around the world. And occasionally they

2057
02:27:30,239 --> 02:27:32,520
read about a war and they find a country on

2058
02:27:32,559 --> 02:27:35,079
a map and they go, oh, oh, that's where Ukraine is.

2059
02:27:36,639 --> 02:27:43,479
But it's really dreadful to reflect about what the American

2060
02:27:43,479 --> 02:27:46,639
Empire has done over the years, what they did in Iraq.

2061
02:27:47,239 --> 02:27:51,799
You know, Iraq was destabilized. A civil war broke out

2062
02:27:52,040 --> 02:27:57,159
because the United States abolished the government and military of

2063
02:27:57,360 --> 02:28:02,280
the country of Iraq. Though the country had done nothing

2064
02:28:03,239 --> 02:28:06,719
aggressive towards the United States. It had not attacked the

2065
02:28:06,799 --> 02:28:12,639
United States, it had not threatened the United States, and

2066
02:28:12,719 --> 02:28:16,760
as a result of the abolition of the government and

2067
02:28:16,840 --> 02:28:20,840
military of Iraq, the country was plunged into a civil

2068
02:28:20,879 --> 02:28:24,239
war that lasted over ten years. Arguably it's still going

2069
02:28:24,280 --> 02:28:28,440
on now. The country was partially partitioned, you know, it

2070
02:28:28,479 --> 02:28:33,239
hasn't been formally partitioned, but it's not operating as a

2071
02:28:33,319 --> 02:28:39,200
unitary state anymore. And I believe it. I want to

2072
02:28:39,200 --> 02:28:42,399
say it's the United Nations estimate. I can tell you

2073
02:28:42,479 --> 02:28:48,159
that the number is not overblown. The number is not controversial.

2074
02:28:48,520 --> 02:28:51,760
To my knowledge, this number is not controversial. Over a

2075
02:28:51,920 --> 02:28:57,600
million civilians died in the course of the Iraqi Civil War.

2076
02:28:57,840 --> 02:29:05,440
The United States Empire is responsible for that. Americans don't

2077
02:29:05,479 --> 02:29:11,399
know the first thing about it. There aren't any Christians

2078
02:29:11,399 --> 02:29:15,520
in Iraq anymore. Before two thousand and three, ten percent

2079
02:29:15,520 --> 02:29:21,000
of the country was. The Foreign Minister of Iraq was

2080
02:29:21,000 --> 02:29:25,440
a Christian. His name was Tariq Azase. He was an

2081
02:29:25,479 --> 02:29:31,920
Assyrian Christian. I believe Roman Catholic, that would make him.

2082
02:29:34,600 --> 02:29:39,719
It is a terrible injustice what the United States has

2083
02:29:39,760 --> 02:29:42,639
done with these countries. And they have done it out

2084
02:29:42,760 --> 02:29:47,040
of an absence of mind. They have done it because

2085
02:29:47,079 --> 02:29:49,559
they have their head in the clouds, full of ideological

2086
02:29:49,639 --> 02:29:55,680
dreams about remaking the world in their image. And there's

2087
02:29:55,719 --> 02:29:58,159
a price to pay for these things. I am really

2088
02:29:58,319 --> 02:30:01,520
I am mble for my country when I think of

2089
02:30:01,559 --> 02:30:07,719
these things. Americans will suffer for these for these horrible,

2090
02:30:09,239 --> 02:30:14,360
unethical actions, and I don't want them to suffer for it.

2091
02:30:14,399 --> 02:30:18,120
And for Heaven's sake, they had no idea and they

2092
02:30:18,120 --> 02:30:22,040
didn't come up with the plan. It was our criminal

2093
02:30:22,120 --> 02:30:26,399
elites who seem to be, you know, some combination of

2094
02:30:26,719 --> 02:30:32,760
criminal and insane, all all too obvious now where we

2095
02:30:33,079 --> 02:30:37,040
actually have, you know, a demented old man in the

2096
02:30:37,040 --> 02:30:41,559
white House who cannot string sentences together, and the same

2097
02:30:41,639 --> 02:30:45,559
goes for his most unfortunate selection for the vice presidency.

2098
02:30:47,040 --> 02:30:50,760
These people do not have much awareness of what's going

2099
02:30:50,840 --> 02:30:57,120
on themselves. The United States does not elect its leadership.

2100
02:30:58,040 --> 02:31:02,120
We ought to know this about ourselves. We don't have

2101
02:31:02,159 --> 02:31:07,639
a representative government. The people that we that we supposedly

2102
02:31:07,719 --> 02:31:15,280
elect in the most fortified, secure elections are not actually

2103
02:31:15,319 --> 02:31:18,920
the people that go run the country. There is a

2104
02:31:18,920 --> 02:31:22,479
permanent elite that does not get switched out, and when

2105
02:31:22,680 --> 02:31:25,520
Trump is elected, they actively subvert him. We know this

2106
02:31:25,559 --> 02:31:27,200
to be true. We ought to all know this to

2107
02:31:27,239 --> 02:31:30,040
be true. Now we don't actually have the government that

2108
02:31:30,040 --> 02:31:36,200
we claim to have. But going back, I did say

2109
02:31:36,239 --> 02:31:39,079
I was going to read some of some of the

2110
02:31:39,120 --> 02:31:45,840
actual interactions on the cigar stream. Here's well, I think

2111
02:31:45,879 --> 02:31:48,639
we may have covered this. I think I did just

2112
02:31:48,799 --> 02:31:57,280
cover that. Let me let me go further back. I apologize,

2113
02:31:57,520 --> 02:32:04,079
okay aa. On one occasion he said European empires were

2114
02:32:04,120 --> 02:32:11,639
not anti European. I've got a response to that. That

2115
02:32:11,840 --> 02:32:17,079
was so at least until they collapsed, and then those

2116
02:32:17,079 --> 02:32:24,840
sophisticated Brits were supporting, you know, Indian terrorist actions against

2117
02:32:25,000 --> 02:32:28,440
imperial outposts in India after World War Two and like

2118
02:32:28,559 --> 02:32:34,680
cheering on Gandhi and stuff like that. AA likes to

2119
02:32:34,719 --> 02:32:37,280
blame Americans for that. He likes to say, well, that's

2120
02:32:37,440 --> 02:32:42,200
American cultural rot that's being exported into into Great Britain.

2121
02:32:43,399 --> 02:32:49,479
I'm not totally convinced of that. Do you have any

2122
02:32:49,520 --> 02:32:53,879
opinion on that, Like the collapse of European empires, do

2123
02:32:54,319 --> 02:32:56,879
you think that when when they're their own people were

2124
02:32:57,600 --> 02:33:02,559
cheering on anti colonial dissolution of their of their own

2125
02:33:02,600 --> 02:33:07,239
old imperial patrimony, do you think that that was an

2126
02:33:07,239 --> 02:33:10,719
American thing or do you think that that was homegrown?

2127
02:33:11,920 --> 02:33:16,280
Speaker 2: Well, I mean it's hard because and I realized I'm

2128
02:33:16,360 --> 02:33:19,079
not I'm not a historian, you know, I'm less knowledgeable

2129
02:33:19,079 --> 02:33:21,200
than you are. But the the opinion I've kind of

2130
02:33:21,239 --> 02:33:27,000
formed is essentially that the empire kind of fell into

2131
02:33:27,040 --> 02:33:30,000
America's lap, so to speak. You know, if you look

2132
02:33:30,040 --> 02:33:32,120
at kind of the First World War as essentially this

2133
02:33:33,520 --> 02:33:40,200
massively destructed it, like essentially in intergroup conflict, you know,

2134
02:33:40,239 --> 02:33:43,360
we're essentially like the last remnants of the Empires of Europe,

2135
02:33:43,360 --> 02:33:45,079
which were, let's be honest, like they were to a

2136
02:33:45,159 --> 02:33:48,600
certain degree they were already starting to you know, show

2137
02:33:48,639 --> 02:33:53,280
where it the seems essentially blew themselves up, you know,

2138
02:33:53,399 --> 02:33:57,159
all of them, you know the obviously you know, the

2139
02:33:57,479 --> 02:34:00,639
Russian Empire, you know really that, you know, the Royal

2140
02:34:00,680 --> 02:34:04,399
House of Germany, you know, the Ottomans. Everyone kind of

2141
02:34:04,520 --> 02:34:09,639
essentially like demolished their entire stock of you know, treasure,

2142
02:34:09,719 --> 02:34:14,239
their their best and brightest. And so to me that

2143
02:34:14,239 --> 02:34:18,799
that seems to be largely unrelated to America. Obviously, America

2144
02:34:18,920 --> 02:34:21,520
entered the war, but at least from my perspective, we

2145
02:34:21,520 --> 02:34:25,239
didn't really have to do much with it starting, you know,

2146
02:34:25,280 --> 02:34:28,479
and so obviously the rot posts that you know, you

2147
02:34:28,479 --> 02:34:31,000
can say a lot of it is our fault, and

2148
02:34:31,040 --> 02:34:33,559
I don't disagree with that, you know, especially post World

2149
02:34:33,559 --> 02:34:37,040
War Two. It seems largely incontrovertible. But we we can't

2150
02:34:37,079 --> 02:34:41,159
deny that essentially like we you know, as the West,

2151
02:34:41,319 --> 02:34:44,319
you know, put ourselves here, you know, we're the ones

2152
02:34:44,360 --> 02:34:48,319
who essentially spent all of our in our entire patrimony

2153
02:34:48,920 --> 02:34:51,520
in one hundred years of of what you know, and

2154
02:34:51,600 --> 02:34:55,559
I realized that obviously, like we can't, we can't give

2155
02:34:55,719 --> 02:34:59,360
the the usg you know, too much cover, Like there

2156
02:34:59,440 --> 02:35:01,159
was there's act of evil in that, you know, like

2157
02:35:01,200 --> 02:35:03,479
you quote it, yeah, and I'll get it right Madeline,

2158
02:35:03,520 --> 02:35:07,360
all right, not Madison, but you know, essentially saying like, oh,

2159
02:35:07,520 --> 02:35:09,159
it was worth it, you know, the six hundred thousand

2160
02:35:09,239 --> 02:35:11,040
children who died, it was it was worth it. I'm

2161
02:35:11,040 --> 02:35:13,479
not I'm not in any way trying to justify that.

2162
02:35:14,239 --> 02:35:18,680
But we got ourselves here, all of us got ourselves here,

2163
02:35:19,120 --> 02:35:20,639
you know. And there's a certain amount where it's like,

2164
02:35:20,639 --> 02:35:23,600
I don't mean to, by any means excuse the the

2165
02:35:23,719 --> 02:35:26,680
US government. No, we need to look at what they've done,

2166
02:35:26,959 --> 02:35:30,760
you know, soberly and rationally. But also there's another part

2167
02:35:30,799 --> 02:35:33,000
where it's like, at what point is looking for a

2168
02:35:33,040 --> 02:35:37,959
culprit like kind of excuse, you know, excuse people who

2169
02:35:38,079 --> 02:35:41,360
kind of actively made things worse, you know, before that,

2170
02:35:41,680 --> 02:35:42,399
do you see what I mean?

2171
02:35:43,360 --> 02:35:49,159
Speaker 5: Indeed, and we have this this very scary sort of

2172
02:35:49,280 --> 02:35:54,040
political formula in which we claim to be responsible for

2173
02:35:54,120 --> 02:36:00,159
the actions of our government. And that's I think think

2174
02:36:00,200 --> 02:36:06,920
as good a reason as any to disavow the political

2175
02:36:06,920 --> 02:36:11,040
process at this point. I don't think that I don't

2176
02:36:11,040 --> 02:36:15,040
think our government is capable of making choices that we

2177
02:36:15,120 --> 02:36:21,360
can morally countenance and I don't. I really do not

2178
02:36:21,520 --> 02:36:23,600
want to be held responsible. I don't want to be

2179
02:36:23,799 --> 02:36:29,040
I don't want to face judgment day and answer for

2180
02:36:29,159 --> 02:36:34,680
the actions of my government. One is I want to

2181
02:36:34,879 --> 02:36:40,079
register myself as a very profound dissident. I was against it,

2182
02:36:41,600 --> 02:36:43,520
but my goodness, you know what I mean, what can

2183
02:36:43,559 --> 02:36:47,040
you do to prove that you're against and still live

2184
02:36:47,399 --> 02:36:52,040
in this country. It's a It's a real shame. I mean,

2185
02:36:52,399 --> 02:36:56,600
does does this mean that Republican voters that elected George W.

2186
02:36:56,719 --> 02:37:03,920
Bush should be judged for Guantanamo for Abu Grabe? The

2187
02:37:04,000 --> 02:37:09,959
implications are are are really serious, and I take them seriously.

2188
02:37:11,280 --> 02:37:15,239
Speaker 2: And I'm I'm comfortable recognizing that there are acts which

2189
02:37:15,280 --> 02:37:19,159
are necessary for state craft that would not be justifiable

2190
02:37:19,239 --> 02:37:21,840
if you or I did them right, I understand that,

2191
02:37:23,079 --> 02:37:29,440
But there is something there's just a profound like wastefulness

2192
02:37:29,440 --> 02:37:31,799
to it, you know, like say what you will about

2193
02:37:32,879 --> 02:37:34,959
you know kind of and obviously these are these are

2194
02:37:34,959 --> 02:37:38,079
true to a lesser greater excent, you know, like look

2195
02:37:38,120 --> 02:37:41,360
like Caesar are killed an awful lot of goals, but

2196
02:37:41,559 --> 02:37:43,719
in doing that he did to a certain degree kind

2197
02:37:43,760 --> 02:37:46,280
of bring you know, glory and riches back home, and

2198
02:37:46,360 --> 02:37:49,159
I realized that that obviously I doubt that was you know,

2199
02:37:49,200 --> 02:37:51,920
motivated by a sense of kind of like you know, charity,

2200
02:37:52,920 --> 02:37:55,639
and that obviously wasn't necessarily the best thing for Rome

2201
02:37:55,680 --> 02:37:58,280
in the long term. But it's kind of like this massive,

2202
02:37:59,760 --> 02:38:05,399
you know, this incredibly destructive, evil empire is being run,

2203
02:38:05,639 --> 02:38:08,920
you know, kind of like a counter you know, in

2204
02:38:08,959 --> 02:38:11,799
opposition to the people it allegedly was was founded by.

2205
02:38:11,840 --> 02:38:15,040
It's like, it's incredibly perverse. And this actually goes back

2206
02:38:15,040 --> 02:38:17,520
to the first ever episode of this show, episode zero,

2207
02:38:17,639 --> 02:38:21,280
with Paul Fahrenheit, you know, where we essentially talked about

2208
02:38:21,399 --> 02:38:24,879
kind of the you know, the the American you know,

2209
02:38:25,079 --> 02:38:28,360
Southern you know, white man as more or less like

2210
02:38:28,440 --> 02:38:31,479
the janissary class of the empire. You know, we were

2211
02:38:31,520 --> 02:38:34,040
the and obviously not me personally, you know, I was

2212
02:38:34,079 --> 02:38:36,680
never involved, but a lot of people your age you

2213
02:38:36,680 --> 02:38:38,559
know a lot of my friends are in your age group,

2214
02:38:39,040 --> 02:38:41,319
you know, who were kind of in you know, in

2215
02:38:41,399 --> 02:38:45,200
high school plus or minus when when nine to eleven happened,

2216
02:38:45,799 --> 02:38:48,920
essentially got kind of chewed up and spit out by this,

2217
02:38:49,120 --> 02:38:52,000
Like there are multiple people I know who were you know,

2218
02:38:52,079 --> 02:38:54,559
in college when I was in grade school. You know,

2219
02:38:54,600 --> 02:38:58,040
who are either you know, veterans coming back on g

2220
02:38:58,159 --> 02:39:00,000
I Bill or you know, we're about to go out.

2221
02:39:00,639 --> 02:39:02,399
And a lot of those guys who I'm still friends with,

2222
02:39:02,600 --> 02:39:05,719
you know, if they made it through, are incredibly broken

2223
02:39:07,399 --> 02:39:09,719
and really like for what. And it's hard not to

2224
02:39:09,760 --> 02:39:11,920
look at that. And I realized, like there's a human

2225
02:39:11,959 --> 02:39:14,559
cost to any war, you know, there's no denying that,

2226
02:39:15,280 --> 02:39:18,360
but the cost versus the benefit is just it's not

2227
02:39:18,399 --> 02:39:18,959
even close.

2228
02:39:21,000 --> 02:39:26,200
Speaker 5: You know. I never thought that I would relate to

2229
02:39:26,840 --> 02:39:31,760
the decadent Brits who were cheering for the collapse of

2230
02:39:31,799 --> 02:39:37,000
the British Empire after World War Two, you know, watching

2231
02:39:37,079 --> 02:39:41,319
the Garrisons withdrawn from India, for instance, and praising the

2232
02:39:41,440 --> 02:39:49,639
likes of Gandhi. I thought of them as pitiful until

2233
02:39:50,520 --> 02:39:55,040
the collapse in Afghanistan, and then I felt like I

2234
02:39:55,120 --> 02:40:00,399
understood those Brits for the very first time. And I

2235
02:40:00,760 --> 02:40:04,760
guess I would. I really wish that we had the

2236
02:40:04,799 --> 02:40:09,280
wherewithal to use our will to assert our destiny under

2237
02:40:09,319 --> 02:40:15,159
these circumstances. But in the meantime, I guess I take

2238
02:40:15,239 --> 02:40:22,040
some heart in signs of collapse because we don't believe

2239
02:40:22,440 --> 02:40:26,559
lies as much. After we see them fail and no

2240
02:40:26,600 --> 02:40:32,479
one can deny it, and it would it ought to

2241
02:40:32,559 --> 02:40:40,360
deprive the Empire of energy and assent. It discredits them.

2242
02:40:40,799 --> 02:40:44,159
Things like Afghanistan discredit them. And it's not that I

2243
02:40:44,600 --> 02:40:47,719
am cheering on the Taliban, Okay, It's not that I

2244
02:40:47,840 --> 02:40:51,479
want to give them energy, your strength, or power or

2245
02:40:51,479 --> 02:40:56,120
anything else. But I don't. I don't want the Empire

2246
02:40:56,280 --> 02:41:02,840
to have that kind of legitimacy. I thought, based on

2247
02:41:02,879 --> 02:41:09,079
what you just shared, that I'd go through one series

2248
02:41:09,319 --> 02:41:15,840
of conversation from AA's Cigar stream, and perhaps we can

2249
02:41:15,879 --> 02:41:18,319
exchange some opinions about that and then wrap things up.

2250
02:41:19,639 --> 02:41:21,559
This had to do with something that you were mentioning.

2251
02:41:22,760 --> 02:41:26,200
You and I were both reflecting about how the rot

2252
02:41:26,799 --> 02:41:30,120
in the American tradition really does seem to start after

2253
02:41:30,159 --> 02:41:33,200
World War Two. There was broad consensus on that point

2254
02:41:34,520 --> 02:41:38,120
on the Cigar Stream, with both the Britishers and the

2255
02:41:38,159 --> 02:41:43,239
Americans in agreement. It seems to me so AA said

2256
02:41:43,920 --> 02:41:51,520
the rot sets in around nineteen fifty. Yiz then said

2257
02:41:51,520 --> 02:41:56,120
that this distracts from her point. She was speaking of

2258
02:41:56,360 --> 02:42:01,559
a certain intellectual minority group, which she credits for a

2259
02:42:01,600 --> 02:42:06,959
lot of a lot of the harm in the American project,

2260
02:42:07,440 --> 02:42:15,159
especially the anti whiteness. And she said that in Annabellum

2261
02:42:15,200 --> 02:42:19,000
America we had many distinct groups of people, and that

2262
02:42:19,159 --> 02:42:23,200
is quite true. The whole propositional nation thesis does not

2263
02:42:23,319 --> 02:42:28,440
get started until Lincoln's rhetorical flourish in the Gettysburg address.

2264
02:42:30,399 --> 02:42:34,399
Americans did not talk of themselves that way. They spoke

2265
02:42:34,440 --> 02:42:39,079
of themselves as natives of their states. So AA then response,

2266
02:42:39,120 --> 02:42:41,559
and he said, so the United States is not a

2267
02:42:41,559 --> 02:42:46,520
true nation then, and Yiz agreed and said, yes, correct,

2268
02:42:46,559 --> 02:42:50,079
there are many nations. She said, we were functional up

2269
02:42:50,159 --> 02:42:54,440
until eighteen sixty. Then she goes back to the anti

2270
02:42:54,479 --> 02:42:58,159
whiteness thesis again. She says anti whites are the virus,

2271
02:42:59,200 --> 02:43:07,600
not the empire or DC. So academic agent then goes

2272
02:43:07,680 --> 02:43:10,799
back to the ethnic thesis once more, and he says, well,

2273
02:43:10,799 --> 02:43:14,680
who cares about the fake nation of the USA? In

2274
02:43:14,680 --> 02:43:16,680
that case, if you say it was something that was

2275
02:43:16,760 --> 02:43:22,840
made up, that the propositional thesis is incorrect. At this point,

2276
02:43:22,879 --> 02:43:27,360
Paul Fahrenheit interjected and said he must disagree. He said,

2277
02:43:28,920 --> 02:43:33,040
in the early Republic we were more like Europe, and

2278
02:43:33,479 --> 02:43:37,959
you could say that we had traditional ethnic groups up

2279
02:43:38,040 --> 02:43:42,760
until the Civil War, though there was talk of some

2280
02:43:42,840 --> 02:43:46,360
kind of national collective identity in this I think Paul

2281
02:43:46,440 --> 02:43:51,280
is correct. I would like to clarify. Then Paul comes

2282
02:43:51,319 --> 02:43:56,000
out with a more controversial thesis. He said secession and

2283
02:43:56,879 --> 02:44:00,760
the whole attempt for the South to stablish itself as

2284
02:44:00,799 --> 02:44:06,760
another country was suicidal like World War One for Americans,

2285
02:44:07,879 --> 02:44:13,000
and that secession today would create worse entropy and it

2286
02:44:13,040 --> 02:44:20,680
would impoverish us materially. I agree it would impoverish us materially,

2287
02:44:22,120 --> 02:44:26,600
but I insist that there are far more valuable things

2288
02:44:26,680 --> 02:44:36,000
we stand to preserve by political breakup, political cultural, economic breakup. Yes,

2289
02:44:36,079 --> 02:44:38,280
we would lose our standard of living, but I say

2290
02:44:38,440 --> 02:44:39,799
we're losing it any way.

2291
02:44:42,239 --> 02:44:45,399
Speaker 2: Well, right, And a common refrain in these circles is,

2292
02:44:45,879 --> 02:44:50,920
you know, essentially we want to cease treating our homes

2293
02:44:50,920 --> 02:44:52,000
as economic zones.

2294
02:44:52,680 --> 02:44:52,840
Speaker 5: Right.

2295
02:44:53,000 --> 02:44:56,399
Speaker 2: Essentially, all that America or all that Britain means is

2296
02:44:57,639 --> 02:45:01,440
a essentially like a a square plot of land with

2297
02:45:01,479 --> 02:45:04,920
a certain tax code. But we've got to realize that

2298
02:45:05,159 --> 02:45:07,239
if we if we intend to reject that, if we

2299
02:45:07,280 --> 02:45:10,879
intend to reject you know, globalism and kind of like

2300
02:45:11,159 --> 02:45:17,120
line go up economics, that's not a free that that

2301
02:45:17,280 --> 02:45:20,280
costs you something and to a certain degree, like a

2302
02:45:20,319 --> 02:45:22,239
lot of us have kind of and I speak even

2303
02:45:22,360 --> 02:45:25,360
myself right sitting on a desk I ordered from Amazon,

2304
02:45:26,280 --> 02:45:30,159
I have gotten addicted to kind of like the comforts

2305
02:45:30,200 --> 02:45:32,879
of that. And look, I agree with you that if

2306
02:45:32,879 --> 02:45:35,239
we if we want to decouple ourselves from that, if

2307
02:45:35,239 --> 02:45:38,399
we want to break down you know this, this unwieldy

2308
02:45:38,440 --> 02:45:43,479
empire into smaller units like that will come with that

2309
02:45:43,520 --> 02:45:46,600
will come with a decrease in complexity and a decrease

2310
02:45:46,600 --> 02:45:50,200
and essentially like consumer purchasing power. To put it in

2311
02:45:50,200 --> 02:45:54,520
a very blunt way.

2312
02:45:54,040 --> 02:45:59,239
Speaker 5: I I really do believe our quality of life is

2313
02:45:59,280 --> 02:46:03,760
set to take a us serious hit. But we ought

2314
02:46:03,799 --> 02:46:10,440
to respond to that with the character to develop spiritual strength.

2315
02:46:13,120 --> 02:46:19,280
Now now is the time to develop spiritual virtues. We

2316
02:46:19,840 --> 02:46:23,840
need that more than ever. We have been relying on

2317
02:46:25,120 --> 02:46:30,040
materialism and lifestyles that we can purchase off the shelf

2318
02:46:30,920 --> 02:46:35,159
to fill spiritual voids for far too long, and the

2319
02:46:35,280 --> 02:46:40,680
price has been tremendous. We're facing many of the consequences

2320
02:46:41,239 --> 02:46:47,639
of those addictions at this point, but we do not

2321
02:46:47,959 --> 02:46:52,680
We don't need economic prosperity, We do not need GDP growth.

2322
02:46:54,959 --> 02:47:01,479
Measuring progress by GDP is. Here's other controversial thesis for you.

2323
02:47:01,520 --> 02:47:04,840
I say that that's part of the imperial system that's

2324
02:47:04,959 --> 02:47:11,239
ultimately based on a lie things. We aren't constantly measuring

2325
02:47:11,319 --> 02:47:17,639
the consumption of our citizenry as a substitute for their

2326
02:47:17,760 --> 02:47:22,319
actual happiness. That that's just false, that's that's not how

2327
02:47:22,360 --> 02:47:27,440
it works. Other things that that actually make life worth living.

2328
02:47:27,479 --> 02:47:32,079
The culture that that actually makes life worth living is

2329
02:47:32,079 --> 02:47:39,079
is based on things like loyalties, faith, your your comfortableness

2330
02:47:39,200 --> 02:47:43,680
in your own skin, which evidently is something that more

2331
02:47:43,760 --> 02:47:46,840
and more Americans simply cannot live with. They need they

2332
02:47:46,879 --> 02:47:52,280
need surgeons and and hormones and such to change these things.

2333
02:47:52,760 --> 02:47:55,120
Not not to mention, you know, all all the other

2334
02:47:55,360 --> 02:47:58,280
sorts of mind altering drugs that that we hear so

2335
02:47:58,360 --> 02:48:05,120
much about these days. We're very uncomfortable these days, and

2336
02:48:05,280 --> 02:48:09,399
it's a sign of our spiritual unhealthiness. We don't feel

2337
02:48:09,399 --> 02:48:13,280
comfortable in our land, we don't feel comfortable with our people,

2338
02:48:13,760 --> 02:48:19,959
with our own families. We need a spiritual comfortableness, and

2339
02:48:20,559 --> 02:48:23,239
we don't need more money for that. I think more

2340
02:48:23,360 --> 02:48:29,719
money has made it worse. More conveniences, more luxuries may

2341
02:48:29,760 --> 02:48:36,840
make it all worse. Our ancestors did not need very

2342
02:48:36,920 --> 02:48:39,840
much in order to keep families together, in order to

2343
02:48:39,920 --> 02:48:44,280
raise children, in order to educate them. Go read their newspapers,

2344
02:48:44,319 --> 02:48:48,760
for heaven's sake. These people could read and write far

2345
02:48:48,879 --> 02:48:52,959
better than we can typically, and they raise the standard.

2346
02:48:53,360 --> 02:48:57,719
They were not constantly dumbing it all down. There was

2347
02:48:57,760 --> 02:49:06,200
a time when the entropy was was not visible in

2348
02:49:06,200 --> 02:49:11,000
in things that people actually wrote, whereas now things like

2349
02:49:11,079 --> 02:49:14,040
texting and such have done such a number on our

2350
02:49:14,079 --> 02:49:17,680
ability to communicate clearly and effectively and even even to

2351
02:49:17,799 --> 02:49:23,479
spell our own language anymore. So my my contention, we

2352
02:49:23,520 --> 02:49:26,600
don't We don't need more money, we don't need more

2353
02:49:26,680 --> 02:49:33,280
prosperity and economics. We we we need spiritual revival at

2354
02:49:33,280 --> 02:49:37,159
this point in our history. But I'm afraid we are

2355
02:49:37,239 --> 02:49:41,040
going to go through a season of serious despair before then.

2356
02:49:43,000 --> 02:49:46,520
I think I think the despair will be made of

2357
02:49:46,559 --> 02:49:54,840
those who really believe in the empire. They they see

2358
02:49:54,879 --> 02:49:58,760
their ideals all round, wound up in it somehow. And

2359
02:49:58,799 --> 02:50:01,000
a lot of these people are people that I have

2360
02:50:01,200 --> 02:50:06,799
so much affection for, flag waving people right, people who

2361
02:50:07,520 --> 02:50:13,360
sing country songs, people that go and tailgate and say

2362
02:50:13,520 --> 02:50:16,959
I'm proud to be an American where at least I

2363
02:50:17,040 --> 02:50:24,479
know I'm free. Kind of right, it's a very pitiful slogan,

2364
02:50:24,520 --> 02:50:25,120
it seems to me.

2365
02:50:25,360 --> 02:50:27,959
Speaker 2: At least I know I'm free, it is, I mean,

2366
02:50:28,040 --> 02:50:34,760
especially now, and it's never a comforting realization that there

2367
02:50:34,799 --> 02:50:39,520
there isn't really a you know, a realistic past. You know,

2368
02:50:39,520 --> 02:50:43,159
they're a realistic path forward where we essentially get to

2369
02:50:43,239 --> 02:50:46,280
keep all of the things that we like, you know,

2370
02:50:46,319 --> 02:50:50,680
we have to give up something and you know, look

2371
02:50:50,719 --> 02:50:53,559
like that's probably it's probably good for us.

2372
02:50:54,120 --> 02:50:54,319
Speaker 5: You know.

2373
02:50:54,399 --> 02:50:57,840
Speaker 2: It's just that what's good for you isn't always pleasant.

2374
02:50:58,600 --> 02:51:00,719
And so I don't mean to come across as is

2375
02:51:00,760 --> 02:51:03,600
too black built. You know, I'm not saying to say

2376
02:51:03,600 --> 02:51:07,000
it's all pointless, you know, just neck yourself. But I

2377
02:51:07,040 --> 02:51:09,799
think that if we can kind of draw a conclusion

2378
02:51:09,799 --> 02:51:12,319
from it, it's that, well, things are probably going to

2379
02:51:12,399 --> 02:51:15,479
get better before they get worse, but hopefully they will

2380
02:51:15,680 --> 02:51:24,399
eventually get better. Indeed, Well, anyway, Bagbie, I'm sorry, I'm

2381
02:51:24,440 --> 02:51:27,719
reaching the end of my endurance. Like I said earlier,

2382
02:51:27,719 --> 02:51:29,280
I'm feeling a little bit under the weather. Is there

2383
02:51:29,280 --> 02:51:31,600
anything you want to say before we wrap things up?

2384
02:51:35,000 --> 02:51:41,799
Speaker 5: Just that patriotism is a duty, and again we should

2385
02:51:41,799 --> 02:51:45,239
reflect that without love of country, a man is unable

2386
02:51:45,239 --> 02:51:51,399
to create. I think that is profoundly true. I'm not

2387
02:51:51,840 --> 02:51:59,360
hating on America. I love America that the parts of

2388
02:51:59,360 --> 02:52:04,639
it that I know. Oh, I don't belong anywhere else.

2389
02:52:04,920 --> 02:52:07,200
What am I supposed to do? I mean to go

2390
02:52:07,239 --> 02:52:11,520
to Costa Rica or something would be utterly alienating. No

2391
02:52:11,559 --> 02:52:17,239
one should want Americans to be alienated from their own patrimony.

2392
02:52:17,280 --> 02:52:21,040
To do so is to geld them. Okay, they would

2393
02:52:21,079 --> 02:52:25,879
be worth nothing if they are to be alienated. We

2394
02:52:26,360 --> 02:52:29,360
have to find something heure, and I think there's a

2395
02:52:29,399 --> 02:52:31,399
lot to love. By the way, I'm not saying that

2396
02:52:31,440 --> 02:52:38,520
it's difficult. Just just find some good teachers. Okay, don't

2397
02:52:38,559 --> 02:52:41,719
get teachers that hate it. There are plenty of those.

2398
02:52:42,600 --> 02:52:49,719
Distinguish all right, But love where you are, learn the

2399
02:52:49,719 --> 02:52:53,440
story of your people, learn the story of your place,

2400
02:52:54,120 --> 02:52:58,760
and love it. That goes for you Australians out there, wherever,

2401
02:52:59,120 --> 02:53:02,520
whatever strange place you might live in. We have a

2402
02:53:02,559 --> 02:53:07,399
basic duty to do that. And my initial beef with

2403
02:53:07,479 --> 02:53:11,079
AA was that it seemed to me he wanted Americans

2404
02:53:11,079 --> 02:53:15,399
to be alienated. I know better than that. Now that's

2405
02:53:15,440 --> 02:53:18,360
not what he was talking about, and he did clarify himself,

2406
02:53:18,399 --> 02:53:22,719
and I want to give him credit for that, but

2407
02:53:22,760 --> 02:53:25,000
that that is a basic duty for us, and if

2408
02:53:25,000 --> 02:53:31,000
we have any hope for our beliefs, it must include

2409
02:53:32,000 --> 02:53:38,680
a patriotism. So that's my team this evening. I really

2410
02:53:38,719 --> 02:53:42,319
appreciate coming on and I we do. Hope you feel better.

2411
02:53:42,200 --> 02:53:45,079
Speaker 2: Jay, Oh, it's all right, I'll be. I'm going to

2412
02:53:45,079 --> 02:53:47,319
the doctor tomorrow, so i'll be. I'll be better one

2413
02:53:47,319 --> 02:53:50,959
way or another. It was my determination never go to

2414
02:53:50,959 --> 02:53:53,319
the doctor. Lasted exactly forty eight hours.

2415
02:53:53,760 --> 02:53:57,440
Speaker 5: Oh well, my goodness. I hope you do feel better

2416
02:53:57,479 --> 02:53:57,879
than that.

2417
02:53:57,959 --> 02:54:02,440
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'll be fine. Guys, obviously you know this.

2418
02:54:02,440 --> 02:54:05,040
This episode is going up on YouTube right now, but

2419
02:54:05,120 --> 02:54:08,159
it will you know, very soon be on anywhere you

2420
02:54:08,200 --> 02:54:12,079
listen to audio only shows, So Apple, Spotify. I'm trying

2421
02:54:12,079 --> 02:54:16,200
out a new scheme to essentially to monetize this show

2422
02:54:16,280 --> 02:54:19,200
by having the shows always be free on my YouTube,

2423
02:54:20,200 --> 02:54:24,680
and the first the most recent ten episodes will always

2424
02:54:24,680 --> 02:54:27,399
be free on Apple and Spotify anywhere you listen to

2425
02:54:27,399 --> 02:54:29,959
audio shows. And then after they kind of fall out

2426
02:54:29,959 --> 02:54:31,920
of the top ten, they go behind a you know,

2427
02:54:31,920 --> 02:54:35,559
a simple five dollars a month paywall at my sub stack,

2428
02:54:35,639 --> 02:54:37,879
and that's obviously that's not a huge benefit, but it

2429
02:54:38,000 --> 02:54:39,840
is a you know, a nice way to you know,

2430
02:54:39,879 --> 02:54:42,799
access the backlog, a whay you're out away from your computer.

2431
02:54:43,479 --> 02:54:46,040
And then other than that, I should be recording with

2432
02:54:46,040 --> 02:54:48,959
with Liz soon with with Todd Lewis, and you know,

2433
02:54:49,040 --> 02:54:50,680
sooner or later. And now we said, I don't want

2434
02:54:50,680 --> 02:54:52,760
to spoil it, I might be on on Thomas just

2435
02:54:52,799 --> 02:54:55,200
so mind phaser. So we got a lot coming up.

2436
02:54:55,600 --> 02:54:58,799
And thank you guys for coming out, and keep your

2437
02:54:58,799 --> 02:55:01,280
head up, guys like it last forever. Good Night,