WEBVTT 1 00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:15.480 Ready, and just like that, it's the seventeenth day of 2 00:00:15.640 --> 00:00:21.480 December twenty twenty five, amazing, only a day's till Christmas. 3 00:00:21.760 --> 00:00:24.199 I'm not going to try to sing right now. I could, 4 00:00:24.399 --> 00:00:27.199 I could clear up my throat and attempt to smooth 5 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:29.640 it all out for you and give you the Christmas 6 00:00:29.640 --> 00:00:32.920 tunes that you deserve. Actually, I've already done that on 7 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:35.920 o'chelly dot com, and it's mostly about, you know, have 8 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:39.520 a sense of humor already, you know, the Twelve Nightmare 9 00:00:39.600 --> 00:00:42.520 Days of Christmas, Christmas Time in the Ghetto run DMC. 10 00:00:43.000 --> 00:00:45.799 I mean, I got all that stuff going. Clips from movies. 11 00:00:46.920 --> 00:00:48.880 Might not be safe for work though, if you're gonna 12 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:51.079 play it, but if you're having a party and you want, 13 00:00:51.159 --> 00:00:54.719 you know, the comedy Christmas theme, listen to the tracks 14 00:00:54.759 --> 00:00:57.359 in between the shows here all the way up until 15 00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:00.719 I don't know, maybe the new year. We'll run Christmas 16 00:01:00.840 --> 00:01:04.920 music like nobody else is doing it, okay, and other 17 00:01:05.040 --> 00:01:09.280 Christmas themed stuff on o'chelly dot com Radio. O'chelly dot 18 00:01:09.319 --> 00:01:14.560 com Radio your one stop shop for Christmas bliss. Anyway, 19 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:17.000 it is Wednesday, Woden's Day, and I did give you 20 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:22.239 the date already, so surprisingly, I have Larry Hancock with me. Okay, 21 00:01:23.159 --> 00:01:25.959 little rant I went through and I explained that before 22 00:01:26.000 --> 00:01:28.480 I went live with Larry on Friday. I know I 23 00:01:28.519 --> 00:01:31.760 did that, guys, but is what it is. And in 24 00:01:31.799 --> 00:01:34.319 case you didn't understand it, I made sure Larry understood 25 00:01:34.319 --> 00:01:36.760 it straight up front and go ahead and play the 26 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:41.560 tape clipman anyway you want. Okay, so far, I'm just 27 00:01:41.599 --> 00:01:46.439 getting angry notes about people that I didn't openly criticize directly. 28 00:01:47.719 --> 00:01:50.040 I didn't name anybody, but still it's like, how dare 29 00:01:50.079 --> 00:01:53.159 you not, you know, say a nice thing about Yeah, okay, whatever. 30 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:56.200 And I don't just say nice things about Larry because 31 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:58.400 he's my friend. It's because he's a real person. And 32 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:02.000 you know, I got to tell you even the side 33 00:02:02.040 --> 00:02:03.920 conversations I have with him where he tells me what 34 00:02:03.959 --> 00:02:06.159 he's doing in his daily life outside of any sort 35 00:02:06.159 --> 00:02:09.080 of research, his authorship, you know, what he's doing in 36 00:02:09.120 --> 00:02:15.439 this field whatever. Yeah, he's probably one of the most 37 00:02:15.520 --> 00:02:18.680 genuine people that I talk to, even in the side conversations. 38 00:02:19.639 --> 00:02:22.280 So you know, it is what it is. Just because 39 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:24.800 there ain't many of you out there doesn't mean I'm 40 00:02:24.800 --> 00:02:28.159 not going to recognize the one that I have contact with. Okay, 41 00:02:28.879 --> 00:02:31.800 So putting that all aside, Larry Hancock, now you no 42 00:02:31.879 --> 00:02:36.319 longer go to Larry's website, but the word press link 43 00:02:37.319 --> 00:02:41.639 is in the show description. Now I know he didn't 44 00:02:41.639 --> 00:02:45.000 get banned off his website, but there's an issue there. Whatever, 45 00:02:45.199 --> 00:02:48.080 Maybe in the future we'll see a new Larry Hancock website, 46 00:02:48.479 --> 00:02:51.560 but then again maybe not. Larry could just do his blog, 47 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:55.199 and it's not like he wants to, you know, have 48 00:02:55.240 --> 00:02:58.560 a constant radio presence. You can go on Amazon dot 49 00:02:58.599 --> 00:03:02.039 com check out his other page. It's loaded with plenty 50 00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:04.240 of stuff. Hey, if you want to look at the 51 00:03:04.240 --> 00:03:07.199 o'ceelly dot com archive or the last couple hundred shows, 52 00:03:07.520 --> 00:03:10.319 you'll find plenty of stuff from Larry. You can follow it, 53 00:03:10.520 --> 00:03:13.680 and his constant work on his blog is good enough. 54 00:03:13.759 --> 00:03:17.960 So look for the WordPress link in the show notes, Okay, 55 00:03:18.000 --> 00:03:20.560 which I do. I thought I had in front of me, 56 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:24.960 but now I don't. Of course, you know, I'll get 57 00:03:25.000 --> 00:03:27.479 that later. But either way, if I forget in the 58 00:03:27.479 --> 00:03:30.960 show notes, I promise you is and it's always been there, 59 00:03:31.120 --> 00:03:33.840 but now we got rid of the website, so it's 60 00:03:33.879 --> 00:03:40.080 the word press. Okay, the dot WordPress page anyway, I'll 61 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.639 shut up about that and get into other things. I 62 00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:46.919 highly recommend all of Larry's books, especially one that I'm 63 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:52.439 waiting for an additional printing of, because hey, he's going 64 00:03:52.479 --> 00:03:55.080 to add some material and it's a good thing, and 65 00:03:55.159 --> 00:03:57.439 not because he made mistakes in the first place, but 66 00:03:57.520 --> 00:04:00.879 because there's always work to be done no matter how 67 00:04:00.960 --> 00:04:04.919 much somebody does in this field. Strangely, if they're paying 68 00:04:04.960 --> 00:04:08.199 attention and all that, you know, the final definitive, all 69 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:12.560 that is never actually true. And Larry always admits that 70 00:04:12.599 --> 00:04:15.280 with the reissues of things, the additions, there can always 71 00:04:15.319 --> 00:04:19.720 be more work done, etc. But still Larry does a 72 00:04:19.720 --> 00:04:23.160 hell of a job. The Oswald Puzzle there will be 73 00:04:23.199 --> 00:04:26.920 a reissue next year. Pre orders are already happening on Amazon. 74 00:04:27.319 --> 00:04:29.279 I'm getting all this out of the way now, Larry, 75 00:04:29.319 --> 00:04:33.680 because we're going to be uninterrupted here and discuss Lee, Harvey, 76 00:04:33.759 --> 00:04:37.600 Oswald and New Orleans on some level. So I'm waiting 77 00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:39.399 to do that. But before we go to any of it, 78 00:04:40.000 --> 00:04:44.000 how are you doing tonight, sir, I'm doing good, Chuck. 79 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:47.040 I hope Santa is listening to this. Get me some 80 00:04:47.120 --> 00:04:50.920 good marks, you know on this list. They can always 81 00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:54.560 help but I'm doing good. We're decorated for Christmas, all 82 00:04:54.600 --> 00:04:57.680 the Christmas cards are out, all the traditional stuff is done. 83 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:03.160 You know, we're good. We're ahead of time. It's like, 84 00:05:03.199 --> 00:05:05.639 wait a minute, how did this happen? How could we 85 00:05:05.720 --> 00:05:09.160 possibly be ahead? But so it's looking good. The only 86 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:12.079 downside here in Oklahoma's we're in the midst of a 87 00:05:12.199 --> 00:05:16.040 tremendous growth, one of the worst this time of year 88 00:05:16.079 --> 00:05:20.560 in ages, which is really hard on agriculture and animal 89 00:05:20.639 --> 00:05:23.360 husbandry and that sort of stuff and on your sinuses 90 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:25.959 if you happen not to light dust right. 91 00:05:26.000 --> 00:05:29.839 Well, see, I'm having a difference. Well see, I'm having 92 00:05:29.879 --> 00:05:33.519 a different sinus issue here because we're having to use heat. 93 00:05:34.160 --> 00:05:35.720 I don't even want to talk about the rest of 94 00:05:35.720 --> 00:05:37.560 what's going on. You know, I'm doing my best to 95 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:42.360 heal up still from November's adventure. But what's happening is 96 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.519 the dry heat, because in Georgia we usually don't need eaters. Honestly, 97 00:05:47.439 --> 00:05:51.480 is killing my sinuses just trying to stay warm. Christmas 98 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:55.839 preparation has been strange and quite frankly again, I tried 99 00:05:55.879 --> 00:05:57.839 to get some you know, food ahead of time so 100 00:05:57.879 --> 00:06:00.759 that we could have a nice Christmas dinner, but frankly 101 00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:03.879 I can't seem to keep extra food around all that long, 102 00:06:04.000 --> 00:06:07.759 so you know, work in progress regarding that. I want 103 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.519 to give my son at least a nice Christmas dinner, 104 00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:13.720 and you know, a couple of presents would be nice. 105 00:06:13.800 --> 00:06:16.680 And it's been a struggle this year, as per usual 106 00:06:16.800 --> 00:06:20.079 and as you could imagine, but as I do that, 107 00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:24.199 it's just I got these headaches and this problem, and 108 00:06:24.279 --> 00:06:27.160 it's a really basic, simple thing. I'm drying out my 109 00:06:27.279 --> 00:06:30.879 sinuses with these you know, heaters that are not usually 110 00:06:30.920 --> 00:06:34.720 active in the house. You know, normally it's we're fighting 111 00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:37.680 with the air conditioning and electric and all that. And 112 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.639 it's been really really cold in Georgia off and on. 113 00:06:41.800 --> 00:06:45.720 So you know, whether anomalies do cause us issues holiday 114 00:06:45.839 --> 00:06:49.959 or no, so it happens anyways. Look, I'm just saying, 115 00:06:50.000 --> 00:06:52.399 you know, the season is interesting, not just for the 116 00:06:52.439 --> 00:06:56.319 pressure on people's travel. And I'm not going nowhere. I 117 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:58.399 can't even hardly leave the house unless I'm going to 118 00:06:58.399 --> 00:07:00.839 a doctor at this point. So you know, it is 119 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:04.000 what it is. But uh, let's put it all aside 120 00:07:04.079 --> 00:07:07.279 and talk about New Orleans now, just before we go 121 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:14.319 straight into it, you were recently on the Lone Gunman podcast, Right, Yeah, I. 122 00:07:14.279 --> 00:07:17.279 Was on there and we were revisiting we had we 123 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:21.000 had promised, David and I promised before Lancer actually when 124 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:24.639 we did the first edition of the Oslo Puzzle, that 125 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.959 we were going to dig into you know what happened 126 00:07:27.959 --> 00:07:30.720 to Oswald? What happened in New Orleans? That led to 127 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.279 you know, what happened on the way to Dallas, and 128 00:07:34.319 --> 00:07:37.800 that we were we're pretty much done with New Orleans, 129 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.160 but we wanted to explore that time. How how did 130 00:07:41.160 --> 00:07:44.519 he how was how did he get on people's radars? 131 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:48.279 Was he really on the CIA's radar? Was he really operational? 132 00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:53.720 How did he get across the line into being a 133 00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:56.480 patsy in the conspiracy? So that that's what we've been 134 00:07:56.519 --> 00:07:59.079 working on since, and that's what we presented at Lancer 135 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:02.000 and talked with on the Long Gun and all of that. 136 00:08:02.000 --> 00:08:04.360 That story turned out to be a lot longer than 137 00:08:04.399 --> 00:08:06.879 we thought, which is why we ended up actually with 138 00:08:07.000 --> 00:08:11.879 an addition, making a second edition of the paperback version 139 00:08:11.879 --> 00:08:15.000 of the book. Because it's as you and I thought before. 140 00:08:15.040 --> 00:08:16.879 It's sort of like when David and I sat down 141 00:08:16.920 --> 00:08:19.560 and say, you know, we should maybe write a short 142 00:08:19.639 --> 00:08:23.680 paper on what we've learned. Short papers never stay short. 143 00:08:24.079 --> 00:08:26.319 And the only good thing in this case is they 144 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:27.920 didn't turn totally book link. 145 00:08:28.279 --> 00:08:30.879 Well okay, but pause it right there, because here's the 146 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:33.320 fun part. Right. I listened to part of the Loan 147 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.600 Gunman thing, and I like how you and David explain 148 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.720 this evolution. But I think I want people to really 149 00:08:38.759 --> 00:08:44.039 appreciate this because you know, full disclosure, I've been kind 150 00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:47.679 of along for the ride with the Oswald Puzzle since 151 00:08:47.799 --> 00:08:51.440 before it was even a paper, right, because you showed me, 152 00:08:51.679 --> 00:08:55.279 you know, your early drafts of that paper, and then 153 00:08:55.399 --> 00:08:57.519 you kept going, well, maybe we have to turn it 154 00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:00.279 into something that's a little longer. Well, maybe it's got to. 155 00:09:00.639 --> 00:09:05.240 And this evolved gradually, not because you know the work 156 00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:09.720 was bad, but because there is almost a bottomless amount 157 00:09:09.759 --> 00:09:14.519 of questions here regarding just this issue. And in my mind, 158 00:09:14.799 --> 00:09:18.759 why you know, being an observer of the literature for decades, right, 159 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.200 I mean no offense, Larry, but long before you wrote 160 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:29.159 your first book, it seems I was observing people struggling 161 00:09:29.159 --> 00:09:34.320 with wrestling with this, sometimes with way less resources than 162 00:09:34.360 --> 00:09:38.840 you had, you know, writing the Oswald Puzzle, right, And 163 00:09:39.240 --> 00:09:43.720 This has been a constant need to revisit this because 164 00:09:44.120 --> 00:09:48.120 there are so many open, unanswered pieces to the puzzle, 165 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:53.039 so to speak. And that's what's weird here. It evolved 166 00:09:53.039 --> 00:09:56.480 because it needed to, but also in real time, your 167 00:09:56.919 --> 00:10:00.559 thing evolves from well I got an article to okay, 168 00:10:00.600 --> 00:10:03.399 now I got a paper, to well, maybe i'll turn 169 00:10:03.399 --> 00:10:07.679 it into a monograph to you know what, David is 170 00:10:07.720 --> 00:10:09.679 really going to have to do some heavy lifting on 171 00:10:09.759 --> 00:10:13.320 part of this because I'm doing something else. Like a 172 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:18.200 real sincere need for the co author was there, and 173 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:21.080 really it wouldn't hurt you guys if you could find, 174 00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:23.759 you know, a couple of copies of yourselves and have 175 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:27.080 you know, four authors altogether, just to do the work 176 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.200 so that there was focuses from individuals who were actually 177 00:10:31.519 --> 00:10:35.879 being conscientious about their work the whole way through. So 178 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.919 I watched this evolve into what eventually becomes the book. Okay, 179 00:10:41.879 --> 00:10:44.440 as somebody who got to see drafts all along the way, 180 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:48.559 right then I get to see, well, you know what, 181 00:10:48.720 --> 00:10:51.399 maybe you need to go back in. And it's not 182 00:10:51.519 --> 00:10:54.639 like we didn't think we gave a complete manuscript to 183 00:10:54.679 --> 00:10:58.080 people when we turned in the book, but we need 184 00:10:58.120 --> 00:11:00.879 to add to it now, you know, which to me 185 00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:05.639 is actually great because the people that think they've reached 186 00:11:05.639 --> 00:11:08.759 the ultimate conclusion all the time in this type of 187 00:11:08.799 --> 00:11:12.200 work are often the people that make the largest mistakes. 188 00:11:13.279 --> 00:11:15.759 I have the greatest answer. I know how it worked. 189 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:18.320 I have the solution, and you're going to have to 190 00:11:18.360 --> 00:11:20.519 read my book or buy my DVD to get it. 191 00:11:21.399 --> 00:11:23.799 And there it is, you got it. And those people 192 00:11:23.879 --> 00:11:27.720 are often way off a couple of years later, when 193 00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:31.000 all of a sudden somebody unearth's contradictory stuff, et cetera, 194 00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:35.120 et cetera, and you and David are doing something entirely 195 00:11:35.120 --> 00:11:41.519 different in that you're answering more more responsibly with this 196 00:11:41.840 --> 00:11:46.080 evolving process. So I just want to recognize that and 197 00:11:46.159 --> 00:11:48.679 also say that you know, it stands out to me. Instead, 198 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:52.120 it stood out to me even more listening to Rob 199 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:56.039 and Joe talk to you guys, and having finally caught 200 00:11:56.120 --> 00:12:01.200 the lancer presentation in its entirety, you know, which took 201 00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.480 me a little while to get to due to circumstances 202 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:07.000 outside of my control. But when I was able to 203 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:09.799 focus and everything else. I think people need to appreciate that, 204 00:12:10.559 --> 00:12:13.360 and I encourage you if you have appreciated any of 205 00:12:13.399 --> 00:12:16.960 Larry's work. Not only the existing Oswald puzzle is great, 206 00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.960 but there will be additional material in this new one 207 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:25.519 with good reason. And here's the thing again, Larry, no 208 00:12:25.559 --> 00:12:28.519 offense to you or David. None of this will be 209 00:12:28.799 --> 00:12:33.559 entirely definitive, I think. But you're getting real close now 210 00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:39.200 and you can actually watch the process, watch this thing evolve, 211 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:43.039 so that this is the way work should be done. 212 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:46.840 You're being given a template, folks, about how this work 213 00:12:46.960 --> 00:12:50.840 should be done. And I just want to stop, pause 214 00:12:50.919 --> 00:12:54.519 and mention that before we go into the minutia of 215 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.639 Oswald and New Orleans, which has been a question for 216 00:12:58.720 --> 00:13:01.679 a very very long time. I'm openly in the public 217 00:13:02.120 --> 00:13:05.720 in the author's works out there, people have been fascinated 218 00:13:05.919 --> 00:13:10.799 and also led down different rabbit holes because of guess what, 219 00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.799 not Dallas, but because of Oswald in New Orleans and 220 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:19.480 Oswald's defection. What does this mean? Who is he around? 221 00:13:20.000 --> 00:13:24.399 You know? It goes well beyond the Oliver Stone film. 222 00:13:24.519 --> 00:13:28.679 It goes well beyond the story of Jim Garrison. There 223 00:13:28.879 --> 00:13:31.799 is a lot to get to. Although those things are 224 00:13:31.840 --> 00:13:36.320 important too, there is still, you know, as we speak, 225 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:40.000 some more things that need to be explored, and I'm 226 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.000 looking forward to see how much of it you get 227 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:47.159 to with this re release of the Oswald puzzle. So, Larry, 228 00:13:47.240 --> 00:13:49.080 that being said, if you want to say anything else 229 00:13:49.080 --> 00:13:52.879 about that, go ahead, But if not, let's really, you know, 230 00:13:53.039 --> 00:13:56.200 go soup to nuts, so to speak, on Lee Harvey 231 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:02.399 Oswald and New Orleans. Starting with it's you know, why 232 00:14:02.600 --> 00:14:06.399 is this important to say the uninitiated? Why is this 233 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:08.879 an important thing? Oswald in New Orleans? He didn't kill 234 00:14:08.879 --> 00:14:11.440 anybody there that we know of. He handed out the 235 00:14:11.480 --> 00:14:16.240 pamphlets there, Yes, indeed, but why is this so important 236 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.679 in your mind to study? Please? 237 00:14:20.919 --> 00:14:24.559 It's interesting check because I can recall asking the same 238 00:14:24.639 --> 00:14:30.240 question you just asked back in in nineteen sixty nine, 239 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:34.240 nineteen seventy, when we heard on the radio that this 240 00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:38.480 attorney in New Orleans was investigating Lee Harvey Oswell in 241 00:14:38.519 --> 00:14:42.519 the assassination, and we all went, well, what the heck 242 00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:46.799 does that have to do with Dallas, remember, and deciding 243 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.360 not to pay any attention to it because it must 244 00:14:49.440 --> 00:14:53.200 be silly because it didn't have you know, an they 245 00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:57.240 didn't do with Dallas, and that's where it happened, you know. 246 00:14:57.360 --> 00:15:02.519 So it's it's interesting that that that is a quite 247 00:15:02.559 --> 00:15:06.480 common question to ask. But to step back, the comment 248 00:15:06.519 --> 00:15:09.559 I would make is that I think one of the 249 00:15:09.600 --> 00:15:11.960 things that we're suffering from at this point in time 250 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:14.360 is that a lot of us have all worked on 251 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:19.279 this for so long that it's tempting to get moved 252 00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:27.799 from the position of exploration to a position of defending 253 00:15:27.840 --> 00:15:32.879 your positions, like, Okay, we did find it. We understand 254 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:38.240 what happened, and we understand the nature of the conspiracy 255 00:15:38.720 --> 00:15:40.679 see it, and we've learned that, and we just need 256 00:15:40.720 --> 00:15:44.240 to stand from all that and convince you people, this 257 00:15:44.399 --> 00:15:46.799 is what happened. Well, you can do that, but the 258 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.279 problem is, it's like setting up a series offenses. You're 259 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:52.919 you're going to stay inside those boundaries because you just 260 00:15:53.000 --> 00:15:56.039 set up your own boundaries, because you picked your own evidence, 261 00:15:56.080 --> 00:16:00.399 your own assessments, you know, and you're going to that. 262 00:16:00.919 --> 00:16:04.759 And I'm afraid in many cases we've moved into a 263 00:16:04.799 --> 00:16:10.799 position of promotion rather than researchch exploration. We're not doing 264 00:16:10.799 --> 00:16:14.919 stuff with new data that comes out because we don't 265 00:16:15.639 --> 00:16:18.080 we really don't need it because we already understand what's 266 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:20.159 going on, and we've been saying it for some time. 267 00:16:20.240 --> 00:16:23.840 Now and it would just be intrusive. It we're just 268 00:16:23.840 --> 00:16:26.559 get in the way and the approach David and I 269 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:29.600 are taking. David is especially good at this, as David 270 00:16:29.679 --> 00:16:34.360 will will challenge me with a piece of information or 271 00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:38.159 it's like, well, you know, we just learned this, we 272 00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:41.960 just saw this document, you know, or do we just 273 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.720 ignore this or are we going to examine where there's 274 00:16:45.919 --> 00:16:50.039 new implications that we haven't considered. And that all leads 275 00:16:50.080 --> 00:16:53.360 me back to the point of what is there about 276 00:16:53.440 --> 00:16:58.240 New Orleans that all of us have not paid nearly 277 00:16:58.360 --> 00:16:59.200 enough attention to? 278 00:17:00.159 --> 00:17:06.160 Right now, clearly, well, Larry, one thing here, yeah, one 279 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:09.920 thing here before you go forward, though, is that you know, 280 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:12.160 the time period that you're talking about where you first 281 00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:17.680 asked that question, there are active authors in the JFK 282 00:17:17.880 --> 00:17:23.799 research community that were involved with the Garrison situation right directly. 283 00:17:24.559 --> 00:17:27.480 You know, people like Weisberg, you know definitely was in 284 00:17:27.559 --> 00:17:29.799 contact with him in real time when this stuff was 285 00:17:29.839 --> 00:17:33.400 going on. Now, you weren't one of those guys, but 286 00:17:33.880 --> 00:17:37.039 you were asking at a distance at that point from 287 00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:40.680 those guys. Right there were people that later become the 288 00:17:40.920 --> 00:17:45.480 iconic authors in the historiography, if you will, of the 289 00:17:45.519 --> 00:17:49.720 assassination who are documenting things you know now they're just 290 00:17:49.759 --> 00:17:52.720 in the pile of conspiracy theorists. But there were some 291 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:56.200 unique individuals that included David Lifton. I don't remember if 292 00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.200 Lyfton made direct contact with Garrison, but he was studying 293 00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:02.559 it as a very guy back then. Even though best 294 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:05.160 evidence was a decade and a half away or whatever 295 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:08.039 from being the phenomena, not from being released. It was 296 00:18:08.079 --> 00:18:11.000 about a decade away from being released in context with 297 00:18:11.079 --> 00:18:13.720 the time where you were asking this question, but there 298 00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:16.359 were authors that were active writers at that time that 299 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:21.680 involved themselves in Garrison before you observed it. Because you 300 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.680 were observing it, it seems like through the literature, and 301 00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:27.359 you didn't live in New Orleans, so you weren't getting 302 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:31.240 local newscasts. You weren't getting the local TV cast or 303 00:18:31.279 --> 00:18:35.200 the local newspaper coverage, so you were in the second 304 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:39.680 hand column there as far as authors, creators, and people 305 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:43.720 really directly involved as researchers, you were just an observer, 306 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:48.200 a bystander, if you will, from the public perspective, And 307 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.599 that's interesting. But those guys even then who were closer 308 00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:57.440 to the situation were working with very little information compared 309 00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:03.759 to what's available today to own anyone. So they were 310 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:06.519 bringing things out. You're looking at it and saying, okay, 311 00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:10.359 why is this important? Because in my mind, these people 312 00:19:10.480 --> 00:19:12.839 were authors at the time simply took it as a 313 00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:16.480 pivot point. Okay, since we know about this, we need 314 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:21.000 to go somewhere else from here. And so therefore, their 315 00:19:21.480 --> 00:19:26.200 trip through this information, their trip through this period on 316 00:19:26.200 --> 00:19:29.960 Oswald's timeline or whatever it is you want to call it, 317 00:19:30.079 --> 00:19:32.640 was a very temporary thing and just part of the 318 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:36.039 directions that they were going through to get to whereever 319 00:19:36.119 --> 00:19:38.680 it is they were going, whether it was to bring 320 00:19:38.720 --> 00:19:41.400 the story into Dallas. You need to know this, and okay, 321 00:19:41.480 --> 00:19:45.839 move on or listen. We need to recognize why the 322 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:49.640 media was sharing certain things, you know, because as I've observed, 323 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.799 you know, during that weekend between when Kennedy was killed 324 00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:55.799 and when Oswald was killed, we already got to hear 325 00:19:56.240 --> 00:20:00.240 stuff that was recorded in New Orleans months before, knowing 326 00:20:00.279 --> 00:20:03.440 that you know, this Oswald was a kooky communist. He's 327 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:07.160 getting arrested. You know, the berengear thing that was being 328 00:20:07.240 --> 00:20:11.599 shared and often forgotten in the constant coverage that emerged 329 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:15.599 post assassination and immediately too, where they had part of 330 00:20:15.640 --> 00:20:19.440 the audio, you know, being shared out there. But again 331 00:20:19.920 --> 00:20:23.440 it was about establishing a background as opposed to actually 332 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:27.319 studying what was going on there. They were giving a 333 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:30.559 summary for that, and their version was, look, he was 334 00:20:30.599 --> 00:20:33.240 being a comedy in New Orleans before he went to Dallas. 335 00:20:33.319 --> 00:20:36.480 Huh huh. That's what they were doing with it. But 336 00:20:37.200 --> 00:20:40.640 nobody really studied it unless you were deep, deep, deep 337 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.799 into the Garrison investigation. And we know now that he 338 00:20:44.880 --> 00:20:48.359 definitely had limited access to everything and he was attempting 339 00:20:48.400 --> 00:20:53.680 to prosecute Okay, you know anyway, I'm just trying to 340 00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:55.839 put that in context. I think that's a fair thing 341 00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:58.440 to do here, because when you say I'm paying attention 342 00:20:58.559 --> 00:21:02.599 to it in nineteen seven or seventy one or sixty nine, 343 00:21:03.279 --> 00:21:06.799 that's after the trial, that's after some public outcry, that's 344 00:21:06.880 --> 00:21:11.400 after a Playboy interview in sixty eight, right, So this 345 00:21:11.480 --> 00:21:14.160 is after the media has shared this in its way, 346 00:21:14.680 --> 00:21:16.519 and I mean all of the media at the time, 347 00:21:17.079 --> 00:21:20.079 you know, no Internet, et cetera. But all the media 348 00:21:20.079 --> 00:21:23.680 of the time has already filtered this, redistributed it and 349 00:21:23.839 --> 00:21:26.400 given you here's the hints about Oswald and New Orleans. 350 00:21:26.839 --> 00:21:29.759 So there's a good reason to set that perspective in 351 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:34.279 its own box. Okay, I think, and somebody might say, well, welcome, 352 00:21:34.359 --> 00:21:36.720 Larry didn't write about it in nineteen seventy one, then 353 00:21:37.319 --> 00:21:39.559 you know, where were you in nineteen seventy one, Larry? 354 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:43.559 How come you didn't have a book on this already? 355 00:21:43.599 --> 00:21:46.480 That is a good question. As I recall, in nineteen 356 00:21:46.559 --> 00:21:51.759 seventy one, I was just out of basic training in 357 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:57.880 technical school in the Air Force and get to go overseas, 358 00:21:57.960 --> 00:22:00.799 and it somehow just really didn't occurred to me to 359 00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.240 think about this at the point at that point in time, 360 00:22:03.359 --> 00:22:05.079 and had been married for a whole year. 361 00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:06.440 Oh yes, so. 362 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:08.839 I just I just missed it. What can I say? 363 00:22:09.039 --> 00:22:11.839 Yeah, you had you had what they call a life. 364 00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:15.200 It is interesting you had what they call a life, 365 00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.839 you know, one of those things that some of us 366 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:23.640 give up when we get deep into research. Yes, sorry, yeah, sorry. 367 00:22:23.759 --> 00:22:26.279 I think one of the things. Just for that perspective 368 00:22:26.359 --> 00:22:29.279 is a lot of and I've I've spoken with Mary Ferrell, 369 00:22:29.400 --> 00:22:34.960 she was very involved with Garrison. I've had some exchanges 370 00:22:35.000 --> 00:22:39.880 with Liften, I've uh, certainly I've read everything Wiseberg wrote 371 00:22:39.920 --> 00:22:43.079 on it. They were. They had a couple of difficulties. 372 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:48.920 One thing is the Garrison investigation itself, and by and 373 00:22:49.079 --> 00:22:52.680 of course Debrah Conways from New Orleans. I've known people 374 00:22:52.680 --> 00:22:55.559 who were there in New Orleans. They followed it very closely. 375 00:22:56.279 --> 00:22:58.680 But it was it would be like being in the 376 00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.200 middle of the war zone and trying to really deal 377 00:23:02.279 --> 00:23:05.519 with what's and make sense out of the information. You know, 378 00:23:05.759 --> 00:23:08.559 it's fog of battle and that sort of thing. Garrison 379 00:23:08.599 --> 00:23:12.559 had supporters, he had attractors. Shaw had a lot of 380 00:23:12.599 --> 00:23:18.279 local support just because of cultural issues. No everybody knew 381 00:23:18.319 --> 00:23:21.319 that the FBI and the CIA or sometimes how I'm 382 00:23:21.359 --> 00:23:25.039 trying to undermine Garrison. But they had no idea how 383 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.359 Garrison knew he was trying to be undermined. He had 384 00:23:28.359 --> 00:23:33.680 no idea how he had suspicions. It just people began 385 00:23:33.799 --> 00:23:37.200 taking sides, even within the research community for all and 386 00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:39.640 anti Garrison. He's going the right way, he's going the 387 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.319 wrong way. He's making a case out of nothing. Why 388 00:23:42.359 --> 00:23:45.640 didn't he stay with this? It was a very combative 389 00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:50.359 situation and a lot of heat and you know, smoke 390 00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:54.319 and fog of battle. Like I said, to even try 391 00:23:54.359 --> 00:23:58.559 to deal at that time with what came out. That's 392 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:01.960 that's cleared some what now because we can answer a 393 00:24:02.000 --> 00:24:04.839 lot of those questions. We know what the CIA was 394 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:07.920 doing to undermine them, We know what they were concerned about. 395 00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.720 The same way goes with the FBI. We know what 396 00:24:10.759 --> 00:24:14.079 they were concerned about. No need for speculation. We can 397 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:19.319 see it. Uh. You know, perhaps this is long enough 398 00:24:19.359 --> 00:24:23.119 after the battle to see it. But the interesting thing 399 00:24:23.240 --> 00:24:26.559 is a lot of those positions that were taken immediately 400 00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:31.440 and in the years right following that the investigation are 401 00:24:31.480 --> 00:24:34.400