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<v Speaker 1>Maybe maybe the situation is that you're not full of

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<v Speaker 1>rage because your new calling.

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<v Speaker 2>Has Let me say something, John, don't you remember the

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<v Speaker 2>introad last week. It's called Christianity, not Buddhism. I'm I'm

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<v Speaker 2>still mad at Paul as in the Apostles.

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<v Speaker 3>That's that's very neat of you. Need you put it all,

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<v Speaker 3>puts it all on Paul.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm mad at him. You don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>I think I do. I do it from mad, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>I call him so well.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like muhammad a.

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<v Speaker 2>This is gold. We took care of everything.

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<v Speaker 3>I believe me we did.

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<v Speaker 1>Did I turn off the coffee?

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<v Speaker 2>Did you lock up? Did you close the garage? That's it?

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<v Speaker 2>I forgot to close the garage. That's it. No, that's

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<v Speaker 2>not it.

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<v Speaker 1>What else can we be forgetting? It's February. We're between

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<v Speaker 1>the polar vortex and the bomb cyclone, as I understand it,

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<v Speaker 1>and therefore we thought we'd take a minute here at

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<v Speaker 1>glop culture to warm ourselves in our own presence. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>John pod Hornz in New York. In Princeton, New Jersey.

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<v Speaker 1>We have Rob Long.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello, God, is it bomb cycle? Is that real? Or

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<v Speaker 2>are you thinking a jokes? I'm looking at it. When

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<v Speaker 2>is that happening?

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<v Speaker 1>Last weekend was supposedly a bombs last weekend, and this

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<v Speaker 1>weekend is the polar vortex. And since I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>when people are listening to this, we're somehow caught between

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<v Speaker 1>the bomb cyclone and the polar TwixT and between That's

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<v Speaker 1>what she said, and there is Jonah Hey Goldberg in Washington.

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<v Speaker 1>Have they picked up your garbage? I have not. They

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<v Speaker 1>have not. Christine Rosen just told me this more it's

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<v Speaker 1>Friday morning into the like the sixth of February that

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<v Speaker 1>they just picked up that.

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<v Speaker 2>See.

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<v Speaker 3>The thing is, like I was trying to explain this

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<v Speaker 3>to Lucy, my daughter, that like the apartment building I

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<v Speaker 3>grew up in, not a huge apartment building, but a sizeable,

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<v Speaker 3>normal Upper West Side apartment building probably had what I

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<v Speaker 3>don't know, one hundred and fifty two hundred apartments in

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<v Speaker 3>it something like that, you know, maybe a little less

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<v Speaker 3>hundred apartments more like.

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<v Speaker 2>So yeah, I mean I guess I'm five per floor

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<v Speaker 2>or twelve. Okay, So that makes sense. Okay, So you.

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<v Speaker 3>Think about how much garbage we produce as one family,

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<v Speaker 3>and then you think about how much garbage each building

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<v Speaker 3>when there are thousands and thousands of those buildings. For

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<v Speaker 3>them not to pick up garbage in New York City

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<v Speaker 3>is biblical in a way that it's just.

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<v Speaker 2>Not in DC. I mean it's just yeah. I remember

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<v Speaker 2>walking through the city once years ago with somebody who

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<v Speaker 2>was not from New York City or even from a

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<v Speaker 2>big city, and she's in there's, you know, bags of

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<v Speaker 2>garbage on the streets. Well, I guess tomorrow's garbage day.

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<v Speaker 2>It's well, that's everyday day here in the big city.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't notice it here in New York where they

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<v Speaker 1>have picked up some of the garbage. But when they

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<v Speaker 1>haven't picked up the garbage, it looks like trench warfare.

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<v Speaker 1>In world's snow, I mean black we have. There's snow

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<v Speaker 1>and and there's these black bags stacked up ten feet high.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet if you have to have a garbage collecting

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<v Speaker 2>strike or cessation, you want to have it in the

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<v Speaker 2>frozen temperatures, not in the incubation July or AUGUSTA. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this way where the lush, jungle climate. But I will

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<v Speaker 2>say this, it's a it's a long standing set up,

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<v Speaker 2>joke setup where someone goes you asked me, if they

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<v Speaker 2>pick up my garbage. Have they picked up your garbage? No? No,

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<v Speaker 2>my mother in law is still here. How's your headache?

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<v Speaker 2>That's on a podcast called Club.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. I got to begin by telling the Frank Sinatra story,

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<v Speaker 1>which is completely it's not connected to anything, but I

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<v Speaker 1>heard it this morning. It's the comedian Mike Burbilia. Barbiglia

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<v Speaker 1>had on his college friend John Mulaney on his podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>and they've known each other forever. So Mulanie's like, you

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<v Speaker 1>gotta tell the Frank Sinatra story. So Birbiglia tells this

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<v Speaker 1>story about Frank Sinatra. He says to his aunt, who's

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<v Speaker 1>from Buffalo, says, have you ever gone to a concert

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<v Speaker 1>or like a show, like a like a live music show?

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<v Speaker 1>And she was like, oh, yes, when I was a kid,

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<v Speaker 1>when I was a teenager, we went to see Frank

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<v Speaker 1>Sinatra and we loved Frank Sinatra. He came to Buffalo

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<v Speaker 1>and we went to the concert, and then afterwards we

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to go see him come out the stage door.

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<v Speaker 1>So we went down into the alley and the door

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<v Speaker 1>opened and there was Frank, Sandra and my friends and

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<v Speaker 1>we start yelling, Frankie, Frankie, Frankie, we we love you.

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<v Speaker 1>Frankie and he comes up and he pushes us out

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<v Speaker 1>of the way, and he says, get out of the way,

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<v Speaker 1>you fat pigs. And then he gets into limo and

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<v Speaker 1>drives away. Oh, we just love Frank Sinatra. Get out

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<v Speaker 1>of the way. It's the perfect story because it's like

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<v Speaker 1>the long con. It didn't affect her feelings about Sinatra

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<v Speaker 1>at all the way they were and they were fat pigs.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I.

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<v Speaker 2>Mean bossic people. Yeah, I mean, what's that old David

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<v Speaker 2>Suskyn's story. I think it's David skin story about Frank

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<v Speaker 2>Sinatra where he's somewhere in a restaurant and Sinatra comes

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<v Speaker 2>to his table. No no, no, no no no, this is

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<v Speaker 2>no no no. That's a different It comes to his

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<v Speaker 2>table and says, I'm a huge fan. I love your show.

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<v Speaker 2>But I get David had talk show at some point.

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<v Speaker 2>I love your show. Was watching it last night. It's great.

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<v Speaker 2>I just I really I love that there's that on TV.

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<v Speaker 2>And I just wanted to I tell you that I'm

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<v Speaker 2>a big fan. That's all I did. And it sounds well,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you so much. That's great. I really I'm a

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<v Speaker 2>huge fan. And they had a little chit chat. It

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<v Speaker 2>was great. It was a great, big moment in Suskind's

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<v Speaker 2>life when Sinatra makes the effort to come and tell

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<v Speaker 2>you how great you are, and then like a's coincidental

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<v Speaker 2>to have it two days later. Just two days later,

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<v Speaker 2>he's at a restaurant and Sinatra's there too. I guess

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<v Speaker 2>Sonatra's in town. And he gets up and crosses to

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<v Speaker 2>Sinnatra's table to say hello, and he goes, Frank, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>so glad to see you. It's amazing, you know, to

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<v Speaker 2>two nights, you know, almost in a row. I hope

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<v Speaker 2>you have a good meal. And he sticks his hand out.

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<v Speaker 2>It's doctor looks at him and says, I looked at

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<v Speaker 2>his hand and says I'll shake your hand, but I

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<v Speaker 2>won't kiss it. But it's just.

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<v Speaker 1>What a psycho anyway. I just but I that was

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<v Speaker 1>such a great story I had to share it.

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<v Speaker 3>So it just on the reference to the Sinatra shaking

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<v Speaker 3>hands of all of the really stupid conceits, including being

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<v Speaker 3>able to purchase a second chunnel boring earth moving UH

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<v Speaker 3>drill on short notice and get it to Nevada in

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<v Speaker 3>Oceans thirteen. Perhaps the dumbest thing was the conceit that

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<v Speaker 3>no one would betray someone who had shaken Frank Sinatra's hand. Yeah, right,

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<v Speaker 3>like that is like the ultimate like honor among thieves. Right,

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<v Speaker 3>no one betrayed anybody.

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<v Speaker 2>Nobody is more honorable than he.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, anyway, I'm sorry to I'm sorry to have

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<v Speaker 1>gotten this.

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<v Speaker 2>No, no, But can I speak a request at some point?

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<v Speaker 2>I know we have a lot to talk about. I would,

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<v Speaker 2>and I know maybe everyone's bored of this. I wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to float a cultural idea to you guys about my

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<v Speaker 2>my thoughts on on on Epstein, and I just I

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<v Speaker 2>don't we don't have to talk about the whole thing

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<v Speaker 2>that's so sortid and but incredibly juicy. I'm totally riveted,

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<v Speaker 2>but I have it. I have a theory, and I

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<v Speaker 2>just we don't talk about now. We can talk about later.

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<v Speaker 2>We could, we could, we could say this is juicy

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<v Speaker 2>stuff and we can talk about later. So nobody tunes out?

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<v Speaker 2>How about that?

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<v Speaker 1>Okay? Later? So we are you are literally teasing.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a little teaser.

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<v Speaker 1>You're teasing the second.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and I've got another. I got another. I speak

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<v Speaker 2>of teasers. Let them tell you something, I'll tell you.

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<v Speaker 3>I'll tell you it's just like a human Chekhov's gun here.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, this is amazing.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not uh we in my in my in my day,

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<v Speaker 2>in my career, we didn't call them teasers, call them

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<v Speaker 2>cold opens. They none of we called them teasers. I

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<v Speaker 2>can't remember. No, we are different things. I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>They're the same. Seriously, yeah, the same, Yeah they are. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>we called a little bit on the on the Cheers

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<v Speaker 2>episode that was the joke before the title, which then

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<v Speaker 2>became people called the cold open. We just called it

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<v Speaker 2>a teaser. I was always called a teasers, called it

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<v Speaker 2>teasers since time memorial that that that that's cannon that

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<v Speaker 2>goes act to Sid Caesar. So don't let's not argue

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<v Speaker 2>over this. And they lift them off. They've been lifting

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<v Speaker 2>them off to go to syndication. So because they they

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<v Speaker 2>were non related to the story, the first thing the

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<v Speaker 2>syndicator would do is like step off the minute and

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<v Speaker 2>a half and that would be your used car mattress

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<v Speaker 2>kind of ads on your local t. And there's somebody

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<v Speaker 2>on Instagram I think maybe Twitter, maybe TikTok to and

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<v Speaker 2>Instagram doing something called Cheers shorts where he's taking every

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<v Speaker 2>episode of Cheers I think, and cutting them up into

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<v Speaker 2>little instagram bable reels and they're in they're in my season.

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<v Speaker 2>By the way, I'm getting paid precisely nothing. Just so

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<v Speaker 2>you know. It's a violation of every kind of trademark

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<v Speaker 2>law there is. But nobody seems to own paramount right now,

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<v Speaker 2>So no one's suing anybody. And he's found some teasers,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't know where he's found him.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe they're they're on the DVDs.

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<v Speaker 2>Are the DVDs full?

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<v Speaker 1>They're probably on the and they're probably on the dv

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<v Speaker 1>these I'm sure there must be.

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<v Speaker 2>Like, I don't want to apologize, Rob, I looked it

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<v Speaker 2>up and you were correct. I shouldn't have doubted you. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, well I was you are What do you call it?

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<v Speaker 4>Then?

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<v Speaker 1>When when when you're when you're on a news show

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<v Speaker 1>and it's like coming up.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh, the business is falling apart.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, there you go. Things don't mean it's a terrible thing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an absolutely terrible thing, to be fair. Look, look,

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<v Speaker 1>just because of President of the United States' account tweets

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<v Speaker 1>out something that has an image of Barack Obama and

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<v Speaker 1>Michelle Obama looking like apes, doesn't mean that he meant.

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<v Speaker 2>It no, and you know you're reading into it, and

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<v Speaker 2>then in turn did.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and it was funny turn uh Braxton Himmler, that's

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<v Speaker 1>what about. That's my favorite thing that Penn did. So

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<v Speaker 1>Penn University of Pennsylvania. The Administration UH, in its effort

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<v Speaker 1>to deal with campus anti semitism, asked Pen to supply

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<v Speaker 1>them with a list of professors and others on camp

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<v Speaker 1>and administration who were Jewish, clearly to try to figure

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<v Speaker 1>out whether or not there was some pattern of discriminatory

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<v Speaker 1>hiring that seemed to be working against Jews. And in

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<v Speaker 1>order to have that kind of hard data they needed,

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<v Speaker 1>they needed.

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<v Speaker 2>A list denominator right to figure out what the numer.

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<v Speaker 1>And then Penn, channeling Otter from antal House, does the

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<v Speaker 1>This is the worst case of the administration's anti Semitic efforts.

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<v Speaker 1>To you know, to sort of like target and have

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<v Speaker 1>us named Jews on a list is the darkest thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's ever happened. Whereas the whole point of it is

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<v Speaker 1>to to determine whether Penn is being anti So I

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<v Speaker 1>won't put up with this.

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<v Speaker 2>How Whereas everybody knows that it's everyone in the economics department.

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<v Speaker 1>I will, Oh yeah, yeah, you will anyway. It just

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<v Speaker 1>it just cracked me up because it has that quality.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Did I ever tell you that the CBS thing

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<v Speaker 2>when I was like putting together a staff or CBS

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<v Speaker 2>and like, this was not this was like before twenty twenty.

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<v Speaker 2>This is before COVID. This's like a twenty eighteen or something.

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<v Speaker 2>And they sent along thing, you have to do a

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<v Speaker 2>webinar and all this stuff and all that because I

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<v Speaker 2>had to. And then you're talking to the person at

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<v Speaker 2>CBS who was tasked with that. They hadn't quite developed

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<v Speaker 2>the sort of post George Floyd post twenty twenty name

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<v Speaker 2>for it, but that the person and and they that

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<v Speaker 2>person had not taken the webinar in double speak, because

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<v Speaker 2>that person was saying, look, you know, I want you,

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<v Speaker 2>we want you to try to when you're putting your

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<v Speaker 2>writing staff to look to diversity, to try higher that

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<v Speaker 2>we're going to help you. We have a program we

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<v Speaker 2>have just let me know. And I said, well, look,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I only have you know, three slots. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>It's like it isn't a question of like what I do,

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<v Speaker 2>It's a question of how money I have. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>have I mean my budget smaller this year. Well, look,

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<v Speaker 2>we don't want to give you the impression that we're

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<v Speaker 2>counting it up. Okay, this is not a This is

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<v Speaker 2>not a quota. We don't have quotas. It's just at

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<v Speaker 2>the end of every quarter, when we get the numbers,

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<v Speaker 2>we want the numbers to be in a certain place.

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<v Speaker 2>I said, well that, yeah, okay, I'll do that. Well,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, do you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know about you know about one hundred percent participation game?

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<v Speaker 1>This is my favorite. You work in a company, right,

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<v Speaker 1>and they say we're collecting free United Way. Obviously what

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<v Speaker 1>you do with your charitable donations is up to you.

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<v Speaker 1>How you choose to give your money away is up

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<v Speaker 1>to you. Whether you want to give money aways up

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<v Speaker 1>to you. But we are looking for one hundred percent

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<v Speaker 1>participation in your department, and we know you know we

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<v Speaker 1>were essentially we're watching. But of course if your if

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<v Speaker 1>your charitable giving is aimed in a different direction, we

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<v Speaker 1>understand that. But we need one hundred percent participation in

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<v Speaker 1>your department, and you make up one tenth of your department,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, so, so that kind of weird. The weird

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<v Speaker 1>coercive non coercive language of the world of corporate double speech.

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<v Speaker 2>Were all disappointed. We didn't see what Bible study yesterday.

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<v Speaker 1>You hear that a lot, Rob, No, I think that's

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<v Speaker 1>the first line. That's the first line of dat Problems

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<v Speaker 1>book of About the Bush White House. Didn't see what

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<v Speaker 1>Bible study yesterday.

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<v Speaker 2>We're doing Habit Cook.

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<v Speaker 1>That would be the easiest Bible study. Cook is the

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<v Speaker 1>shortest book is twenty one two k's, so it's double funny.

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<v Speaker 2>Three yeah, three, that's a two K sounds yeah. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you never want three k want three ks? Right, I

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<v Speaker 2>have three k's, but you never want them to rub right.

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<v Speaker 1>Because as we know from the Sunshine Boys, Lloyd's been

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<v Speaker 1>a pickle is funny. Lettuce is not funny. The great

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<v Speaker 1>is my comic Lessons of all times? All right, speaking

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<v Speaker 1>of comic lessons of all times or comics of all

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<v Speaker 1>times are lit. We were very sad, obviously to note

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<v Speaker 1>the passing, the sudden passing of Catherine O'Hara and and

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<v Speaker 1>it's a moment. It's died at seventy one this week

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<v Speaker 1>apparently took ill very relatively suddenly, and because she had

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<v Speaker 1>been filming the second season of the Apple TV show

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<v Speaker 1>The Studio when she was taken ill and then passed quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's fascinating to me because one would never like

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<v Speaker 1>stop in the middle of the week, last week or

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks ago to say, let's do something about Catherine o'hana, right,

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<v Speaker 1>But then someone dies and you end up in this

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<v Speaker 1>kind of like memorial moment where you go, oh, boy,

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<v Speaker 1>was she great? And then you're like, boy, she really

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<v Speaker 1>was great like and not only was she great like,

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<v Speaker 1>she was great for fifty years and every ten years

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<v Speaker 1>or so there was a moment when you were like,

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<v Speaker 1>oh my god, Catherine O'Hara is great. It's not like

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<v Speaker 1>she faded away or went somewhere else, or she had

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<v Speaker 1>her best moment when she was in waiting for Gusman

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<v Speaker 1>or on SETV. It's like, suddenly she pops up in

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<v Speaker 1>the studio last year giving this astounding performance basically playing

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<v Speaker 1>Amy Pascal, a version of a fictionalized version of the

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<v Speaker 1>studio executive Amy Pascal, and is hillarious, hilarious at the

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<v Speaker 1>age of seventy. And so I was reminded, just like,

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<v Speaker 1>how many people like that like her have there been?

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<v Speaker 1>And the truth is not knowing.

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<v Speaker 2>Most I think part of it. I mean, you know, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>trying to say this so that it doesn't sound like

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<v Speaker 2>I'm some kind of crackpot feminist. But part of it

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<v Speaker 2>is like when you're playing these female parts, right, you

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<v Speaker 2>off especially like Home Alone is a good example, like

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<v Speaker 2>she has to play it'd be kind of funny, but

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<v Speaker 2>she also has to be believably a good mother, right,

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<v Speaker 2>because so you don't believe that a bad parent, that

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<v Speaker 2>they're bad parents, and that there's true that she really

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<v Speaker 2>desperately needs to get.

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<v Speaker 3>You have to feel her pain, ads and the audience

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<v Speaker 3>have to feel like, oh, that could have happened.

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<v Speaker 2>To me, That could happen to me, And she still

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<v Speaker 2>has to be funny, and she brought that kind of

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<v Speaker 2>humanity and that kind of like, you know, she legitimized

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<v Speaker 2>every part she played in a way that sometimes like, look,

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<v Speaker 2>I mean I love Anchorman, right, but you do not

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<v Speaker 2>bel leave one second of it, and you're not supposed to.

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<v Speaker 2>But you're supposed to believe her when she plays Even

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<v Speaker 2>when she plays Moira Rose on Shit's Creek, she plays

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<v Speaker 2>a woman who's all sorts of psychotically narcissistic and everything

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<v Speaker 2>and bananas, and she's got an accent that changes within

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<v Speaker 2>one line, like in one line of dialogue, her accent

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<v Speaker 2>will change. She did that, but she absolutely loves her

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<v Speaker 2>children and would never leave her husband. And that is

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<v Speaker 2>just a staggering performance. And she's still hilarious. So go

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<v Speaker 2>back fifty years earlier.

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<v Speaker 1>On SCTV when SETV, which was the best sketch comedy

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<v Speaker 1>show ever on television, started, she was twenty one years

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<v Speaker 1>and she did there was this bit where Eugene Levy

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<v Speaker 1>is Alex Trebek and he is the host of its academic.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Oh my gosh, that's such a great school high

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<v Speaker 2>school show.

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<v Speaker 1>And she is Mary Margaret o'hallahan. I believe it's her name.

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<v Speaker 1>And so she's a girl from you know, Central High

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<v Speaker 1>School and her problem is that she can't not hit

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<v Speaker 1>the buzzer.

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<v Speaker 2>Now let's start the game.

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<v Speaker 4>The first question worth twenty points and the subject is

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<v Speaker 4>authors Margaret Me and Parkdale.

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<v Speaker 2>Henry minute.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm sorry, Margaret, let me please finish the question first.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, what famous Margaret Me and Parkdale do hugo?

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<v Speaker 4>Oh, I'm sorry, Margaret, if you just let me finish

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<v Speaker 4>the question first, see how it works.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, what famous humors Margaret Me in.

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<v Speaker 4>Parkdale carry to Margaret, I'll have to ask you to

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<v Speaker 4>please let me finish the question before answering, because that

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<v Speaker 4>answer was extremely wrong.

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<v Speaker 1>It keeps going on, and the thing is, she can't

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<v Speaker 1>help me, and as it goes on, she starts crying

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<v Speaker 1>in humiliation because she knows she can't stick get the

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<v Speaker 1>answer right, because she can't, but she can't stop herself,

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<v Speaker 1>so that by the fifth time, you know, she presses

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<v Speaker 1>the button and she's like, you know, judge Jay, and

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<v Speaker 1>she's like leaping and so. And the thing is, it's

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<v Speaker 1>totally credible that she's seventeen years old, that she's on TV,

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<v Speaker 1>and that she can't press the and it's hilarious and

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<v Speaker 1>touching and kind of a little ruthless and all these

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<v Speaker 1>things at once, and all she's doing is pressing a

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<v Speaker 1>button buzzer and saying over.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know what's infuriating about her is that none

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<v Speaker 2>of that, none of that was on the page. She

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<v Speaker 2>she did it all herself. There's a moment in I

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<v Speaker 2>talked about this in the Martini shutage about her this

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<v Speaker 2>week in Guffman, when she's she and Fred Willard, who

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<v Speaker 2>can't believe they're both yet it's horrible and they're they're

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<v Speaker 2>the the local stars of the community, theater Lons of Lane. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and they run the travel agency and they're and they

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<v Speaker 2>do all the theater tricks and everything. Just so you

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<v Speaker 2>just just they're they're hilarious, right, they're going into audition

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<v Speaker 2>and the audition piece they have as they're singing, they're

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<v Speaker 2>doing a number set to midnight at the Oasis, Ding dong, Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder who knows I'm vacationing here at the oasis?

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<v Speaker 1>Am I late?

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<v Speaker 2>You surprised? How did you find me?

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<v Speaker 1>I have my ways?

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<v Speaker 2>Would you like to come in for coffee?

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<v Speaker 1>You don't need to add sir.

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<v Speaker 2>They just don't need to speak.

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<v Speaker 1>Manys and I will be your sheep.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't need a harem honey when you're by my side,

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<v Speaker 2>and you won't need a.

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<v Speaker 1>Cam no no, when.

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<v Speaker 2>I take you for a ride and we need some

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<v Speaker 2>coffee to go with that ride, won't we? We are

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<v Speaker 2>all so surprising.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's say, I wonder do we have time for that coffee?

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<v Speaker 2>What time is it? What time is it?

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<v Speaker 1>Haven't you been paying attention? It's sinn I had oh,

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<v Speaker 1>thank you good.

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<v Speaker 2>But for every line of dialogue that Fred Willard has

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<v Speaker 2>Catherine Harra when she auditioning, she mouths it like she's

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<v Speaker 2>in the elementary school play. You know, when it's not

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<v Speaker 2>your part, you memorize the other person's part two. And

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<v Speaker 2>it's like, I didn't notice it when I saw it

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<v Speaker 2>in the theater. I don't think i've noticed it. I

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<v Speaker 2>only noticed like a year ago when I saw a

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<v Speaker 2>clip of it. I thought, wait a minute, she's mouthing.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's like that, And nobody wrote that down and said,

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<v Speaker 2>mound this. That she just she's just knew who that

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<v Speaker 2>person was, and that she knew that person was working

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<v Speaker 2>really hard, and she knew that person was really terrified

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<v Speaker 2>even though she's supposed to be. You know, she knew

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<v Speaker 2>that her husband was a total jerk, which he is

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<v Speaker 2>and was in crebby domineering and then and then and

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<v Speaker 2>she would of course she'd mouth his words while he's talking,

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<v Speaker 2>and he would notice because he's not paying attention to

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<v Speaker 2>her either.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, I was just thinking. In the studio, which

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<v Speaker 1>is really a very good show. The first moment you

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<v Speaker 1>see her, Seth Rogan has found out that she his boss,

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<v Speaker 1>has been fired and that he is taking her place,

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<v Speaker 1>and he goes to her house to say I'm sorry,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, but he also has to get her to sign,

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<v Speaker 1>and he both has two motives. He both wants to

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<v Speaker 1>say sorry and then also get get her not to

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<v Speaker 1>sue or do something or other. And she just opens

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<v Speaker 1>the door and she looks at him and she bursts

420
00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:09.160
<v Speaker 1>into tears. Instead of going oh it's you, you know,

421
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:12.200
<v Speaker 1>or like ah, my betrayer is here, she just sort

422
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:19.119
<v Speaker 1>of goes mayby and like weeps, and it's again funny,

423
00:24:19.759 --> 00:24:22.920
<v Speaker 1>totally unexpected. It's not the scene you expected to see,

424
00:24:23.359 --> 00:24:28.480
<v Speaker 1>and it's touching and it's me and it's true. It's

425
00:24:28.559 --> 00:24:33.960
<v Speaker 1>like a like a completely honest piece of acting. And

426
00:24:34.440 --> 00:24:36.839
<v Speaker 1>she's seventy years old when she does this. She was

427
00:24:36.920 --> 00:24:41.680
<v Speaker 1>twenty one on SCTV. She was like thirty seven or

428
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:45.839
<v Speaker 1>something when she made Home Alone. You know she she

429
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:48.279
<v Speaker 1>was you know, she was in her forties on Guffman.

430
00:24:48.359 --> 00:24:51.680
<v Speaker 1>She was in her fifties on Bestined Show. And you know,

431
00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:54.200
<v Speaker 1>I mean like she just a mirror alone.

432
00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.039
<v Speaker 2>Home Alone was a beginning of a billion dollar franchise.

433
00:24:59.119 --> 00:25:00.440
<v Speaker 2>And it would not they would to be at Home

434
00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:02.200
<v Speaker 2>Alone two or three or any of that stuff. It

435
00:25:02.200 --> 00:25:05.000
<v Speaker 2>would not have been the biggest grossing holiday movie of

436
00:25:05.000 --> 00:25:08.880
<v Speaker 2>all time. If it was a movie about bad parents

437
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:12.000
<v Speaker 2>who leave their kid at home, and she made it

438
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.640
<v Speaker 2>by good parents, I mean, that was the and.

439
00:25:14.559 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 1>She has that, and she has this beautiful I'm not

440
00:25:17.319 --> 00:25:19.599
<v Speaker 1>even that fond of Home Alone, but she has this

441
00:25:19.680 --> 00:25:25.640
<v Speaker 1>beautiful little scene with John Candy where she's in despair

442
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:28.119
<v Speaker 1>in an airport, in terror and despair at an airport,

443
00:25:28.480 --> 00:25:32.759
<v Speaker 1>and he comforts her. He's like part of this band

444
00:25:32.880 --> 00:25:35.920
<v Speaker 1>or like Poland and something like that, and they have

445
00:25:36.000 --> 00:25:39.000
<v Speaker 1>this like two minute moment, which is, as you say,

446
00:25:39.119 --> 00:25:42.480
<v Speaker 1>crucial to the success of the movie, because if you

447
00:25:42.559 --> 00:25:47.920
<v Speaker 1>don't have empathy for her, you're like, WHOA, my god.

448
00:25:47.680 --> 00:25:50.319
<v Speaker 3>This is you think about it because Candy was at

449
00:25:50.359 --> 00:25:53.319
<v Speaker 3>CTV two and like and Candy has that's sort of

450
00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:56.319
<v Speaker 3>the male fat guy version of all these qualities were

451
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:57.319
<v Speaker 3>describing to her.

452
00:25:57.440 --> 00:25:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, right, that.

453
00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Ability to be a believable mensch schlub guy who's really

454
00:26:05.759 --> 00:26:10.279
<v Speaker 3>funny but also really relatable, you know. I mean, like

455
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.720
<v Speaker 3>the fact that they both came from the same you know,

456
00:26:13.839 --> 00:26:14.559
<v Speaker 3>training round.

457
00:26:14.359 --> 00:26:15.640
<v Speaker 2>As while.

458
00:26:17.240 --> 00:26:20.160
<v Speaker 1>I mean that's why SETV was so great because them

459
00:26:20.279 --> 00:26:23.279
<v Speaker 1>it was you Gene Levy, who obviously also has this

460
00:26:23.400 --> 00:26:27.079
<v Speaker 1>ability to make you feel for him and Martin Short

461
00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:31.880
<v Speaker 1>also like has those colors and uh, you know, and

462
00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:37.160
<v Speaker 1>and and and flavors and uh, and that quality one

463
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 1>of the reasons they could do these like twenty minute

464
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:44.079
<v Speaker 1>long sketches on that on that show because they were

465
00:26:44.480 --> 00:26:45.400
<v Speaker 1>character based.

466
00:26:45.519 --> 00:26:46.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but some of them are so.

467
00:26:46.519 --> 00:26:50.319
<v Speaker 1>They were just parodic. They were character parodies they did.

468
00:26:50.480 --> 00:26:54.000
<v Speaker 2>But with Rick Brannis's Woody Allen and Dave Thomas is

469
00:26:54.000 --> 00:26:56.359
<v Speaker 2>Bob Hope because Woody Allen that there was a period

470
00:26:56.359 --> 00:26:58.759
<v Speaker 2>where Woody Allen was, like, I think he had just

471
00:26:58.759 --> 00:27:00.680
<v Speaker 2>written a piece about it, but like just talk about

472
00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:03.400
<v Speaker 2>how much he loved Bob Hope, how much he how

473
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.640
<v Speaker 2>much he adored by I guess he and Dick Cavot

474
00:27:05.640 --> 00:27:08.559
<v Speaker 2>were most of the Bob Hope like fanatics. And so

475
00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:11.640
<v Speaker 2>I think somebody SETV read that article. But oh, let's

476
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:16.559
<v Speaker 2>just make a Woody Allen movie about Woody Allen and

477
00:27:16.599 --> 00:27:20.119
<v Speaker 2>Bob Hope. Hey, how you doing? Okay? Yeah? Yeah, I

478
00:27:20.119 --> 00:27:21.440
<v Speaker 2>tell him if your jobs to just get in the

479
00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.160
<v Speaker 2>car and go like he was. He was great Bob Hope.

480
00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:28.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, oh that was that anyway, it is if

481
00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.279
<v Speaker 1>you've never watched s CTV go find CTV. Go find

482
00:27:32.359 --> 00:27:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Battle of the PBS Stars where where Fred Rogers and

483
00:27:37.559 --> 00:27:40.319
<v Speaker 1>Julia Child are in a boxing ring against each other.

484
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:44.880
<v Speaker 3>So I do wonder, you know, I I've made this

485
00:27:44.920 --> 00:27:48.440
<v Speaker 3>point about conservatives on college campuses having to know their

486
00:27:48.480 --> 00:27:51.119
<v Speaker 3>own culture and the majority culture, but I always begin

487
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.640
<v Speaker 3>it by saying, Look, there's a reason why the vast

488
00:27:53.640 --> 00:28:00.720
<v Speaker 3>majority of comedians and comic actors are Canadians, Blacks and Jews, right,

489
00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:04.519
<v Speaker 3>And there is something about you know, Mike Myers, all

490
00:28:04.519 --> 00:28:07.880
<v Speaker 3>those guys, they grew up what on American pop culture,

491
00:28:08.680 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 3>but they were alienated from it too, And maybe there's

492
00:28:11.599 --> 00:28:15.000
<v Speaker 3>just something about being Canadian in a certain way that

493
00:28:17.599 --> 00:28:20.559
<v Speaker 3>sorts for these kinds of personalities in the business.

494
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:22.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, it's interesting. Well, I mean they would

495
00:28:22.279 --> 00:28:24.759
<v Speaker 2>say like they do. And SDV did this great parody

496
00:28:24.799 --> 00:28:27.920
<v Speaker 2>of a American talk show called The Sammy Maudlin Show,

497
00:28:29.319 --> 00:28:33.599
<v Speaker 2>and Eugene Levy played the comedian Bobby Bittman and Catherine

498
00:28:33.680 --> 00:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Harrow was Lola Heatherton, so she was some combination of

499
00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:40.200
<v Speaker 2>Lola Falana and Joey Heatherton. And she would come in

500
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.319
<v Speaker 2>at the old pants so she looked like Sharon Stone

501
00:28:42.319 --> 00:28:44.640
<v Speaker 2>and Casino. That's kind of how what was the vibe there?

502
00:28:45.160 --> 00:28:48.799
<v Speaker 2>And I think that that was like when that was on,

503
00:28:50.279 --> 00:28:53.000
<v Speaker 2>I was the age I was. I knew there was

504
00:28:53.039 --> 00:28:57.759
<v Speaker 2>something ridiculous about those shows. I just couldn't quite put

505
00:28:57.799 --> 00:28:59.960
<v Speaker 2>my finger on it. And if you were a Canadian

506
00:29:00.079 --> 00:29:03.759
<v Speaker 2>and you got there faster you were, you got faster

507
00:29:03.880 --> 00:29:05.720
<v Speaker 2>the point where you're like, oh, this is just show

508
00:29:05.759 --> 00:29:09.559
<v Speaker 2>business nonsense. So by the time that that cycle was over,

509
00:29:09.720 --> 00:29:13.559
<v Speaker 2>suddenly David Letterman had appeared and and you and you

510
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:16.319
<v Speaker 2>there was a guy who knew that this was show

511
00:29:16.359 --> 00:29:20.440
<v Speaker 2>business buffoonery and he was never going to have Jerry

512
00:29:20.480 --> 00:29:24.519
<v Speaker 2>Lewis on his show and not make it clear to

513
00:29:24.519 --> 00:29:28.079
<v Speaker 2>the audience. And he finds Jerry Lewis to be, you know,

514
00:29:28.160 --> 00:29:32.400
<v Speaker 2>a joke, and that that is there was a period

515
00:29:32.440 --> 00:29:34.480
<v Speaker 2>there where I like said, the late seventies, early eighties,

516
00:29:34.480 --> 00:29:36.880
<v Speaker 2>maybe I don't know what really exactly when, but that

517
00:29:36.960 --> 00:29:38.759
<v Speaker 2>they got there first because I think they saw it

518
00:29:38.920 --> 00:29:41.519
<v Speaker 2>already from afar. And also they love it.

519
00:29:41.559 --> 00:29:44.319
<v Speaker 1>They loved it, They loved it, and Letterman didn't love it.

520
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:47.559
<v Speaker 1>Letterman was contemptuous of it. And Martin Short in his

521
00:29:47.759 --> 00:29:51.759
<v Speaker 1>memoir actually talks about how when he did you know,

522
00:29:51.799 --> 00:29:55.720
<v Speaker 1>these like letter perfect imitations of people, like he did

523
00:29:55.759 --> 00:29:58.200
<v Speaker 1>this thing where he was Katherine Hepburn or he was

524
00:29:58.279 --> 00:30:01.799
<v Speaker 1>Katherine Hepburn's nephew Marty at the Hot Car Sound. And

525
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:05.400
<v Speaker 1>the old point is he loved them. They loved they

526
00:30:05.480 --> 00:30:08.920
<v Speaker 1>loved them, They didn't hate them. And Dave Thomas loved

527
00:30:08.960 --> 00:30:12.839
<v Speaker 1>Bob Hope and obviously working Ass loved Woody Allen. And

528
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:18.000
<v Speaker 1>so there were they this these were these were very accurate,

529
00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:25.759
<v Speaker 1>often very savage parodies, right nonetheless that were based in

530
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:28.119
<v Speaker 1>isn't this amazing?

531
00:30:28.799 --> 00:30:31.160
<v Speaker 2>Right? I think also like can you believe it were

532
00:30:31.160 --> 00:30:33.480
<v Speaker 2>Canadians are doing this? But also I mean the thing

533
00:30:33.559 --> 00:30:35.759
<v Speaker 2>that Katherine Katherin Heppern thing I think is great because

534
00:30:35.799 --> 00:30:40.440
<v Speaker 2>Martin Short did Katherine Hepburn's nephew. He also did Katherine

535
00:30:40.480 --> 00:30:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Hepburn and Katherine Harrah did Katherine Hepburn. Katherine Hepburn was

536
00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.240
<v Speaker 2>like an st TV staple. And I was once with

537
00:30:52.359 --> 00:30:54.920
<v Speaker 2>a bunch of people who were at CTV. It's a

538
00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:00.400
<v Speaker 2>long time ago, and it wasn't It wasn't Ohara, and

539
00:31:00.480 --> 00:31:02.319
<v Speaker 2>it wasn't Martin Short. It was like it was a

540
00:31:02.799 --> 00:31:07.119
<v Speaker 2>Dave Thomas and Rick Brannis and in the room and

541
00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.519
<v Speaker 2>we were talking about a friend of ours and I

542
00:31:09.720 --> 00:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I tell you the story, that Steven Sondheim story, all right, okay.

543
00:31:14.920 --> 00:31:19.279
<v Speaker 2>So we had a writer's assistant on cheers, an older

544
00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:24.319
<v Speaker 2>gentleman at the time whose name was Barry. And Barry

545
00:31:24.359 --> 00:31:28.000
<v Speaker 2>grew up in rural Pennsylvania in the fifties, I guess

546
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.720
<v Speaker 2>our sixties and was a big fan of the musical theater.

547
00:31:34.480 --> 00:31:36.880
<v Speaker 2>If he get my drift, yeah, the code was not

548
00:31:37.000 --> 00:31:40.960
<v Speaker 2>yet thick, okay. And he and a friend of his,

549
00:31:41.359 --> 00:31:44.240
<v Speaker 2>another big fan of musical theater. At high school, they

550
00:31:44.440 --> 00:31:48.240
<v Speaker 2>took the bus early bus into I think scrand to

551
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.599
<v Speaker 2>New York and they go to New York as they're

552
00:31:49.599 --> 00:31:52.240
<v Speaker 2>going to go see the matinee of a funny thing

553
00:31:52.240 --> 00:31:54.359
<v Speaker 2>happened the way of the Forum, and so go see

554
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:55.680
<v Speaker 2>the mattine of a funny thing happened the way in

555
00:31:55.680 --> 00:31:57.319
<v Speaker 2>the forum. I think it was the matinee. And that

556
00:31:57.400 --> 00:32:01.480
<v Speaker 2>those days, when you were leaving the theater, there was

557
00:32:01.519 --> 00:32:03.119
<v Speaker 2>a phone book. There's a phone booth there with a

558
00:32:03.119 --> 00:32:06.480
<v Speaker 2>phone book in it, and they looked up Sondheim, Thomas Stephen,

559
00:32:08.200 --> 00:32:11.079
<v Speaker 2>and they found him in the phone book, which of

560
00:32:11.079 --> 00:32:12.960
<v Speaker 2>course you could those days, you know, one set in

561
00:32:13.000 --> 00:32:16.640
<v Speaker 2>place or whatever it was, and they called him to

562
00:32:16.640 --> 00:32:18.960
<v Speaker 2>tell them how much they loved funny thing half Flora

563
00:32:19.119 --> 00:32:20.680
<v Speaker 2>for him, and he said, get out of my way,

564
00:32:20.720 --> 00:32:25.119
<v Speaker 2>you've fat pigs. Well, no, because this setup was slightly different.

565
00:32:26.400 --> 00:32:29.720
<v Speaker 2>They said, Hi, we're two teenage boys who've taken the

566
00:32:29.839 --> 00:32:33.440
<v Speaker 2>bus in from Pennsylvania. That's exactly what he said. I'll

567
00:32:33.440 --> 00:32:36.559
<v Speaker 2>pay for the taxi. Get over here. And they went

568
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:38.960
<v Speaker 2>over there, and then they then they we're all like

569
00:32:39.000 --> 00:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>all the writers are like everything at work stopped for

570
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:44.240
<v Speaker 2>the day. I'm telling you what he's telling is the

571
00:32:44.279 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 2>story we had. Like I got to know everything. And

572
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:52.720
<v Speaker 2>he's like, well, I'm not gonna tell you everything, but

573
00:32:52.759 --> 00:32:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I'll put it this way. Stephen Sondheim was one of

574
00:32:55.440 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 2>the early adopters of the polaroid camera. Because you could

575
00:33:00.799 --> 00:33:02.359
<v Speaker 2>take a picture, you didn't have to get developed at

576
00:33:02.400 --> 00:33:06.200
<v Speaker 2>the drug store. Okay, that kind of let your mind wander.

577
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>But his his his, uh, his neighbor was Katherine Hepper. Yes,

578
00:33:14.440 --> 00:33:17.200
<v Speaker 2>and I so I jumped in because I was, you know,

579
00:33:17.240 --> 00:33:19.160
<v Speaker 2>I was gonna do my Katherine Hepper and I was

580
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.480
<v Speaker 2>gonna did I jumped at Kathryn Hepburn. So did Katherine Hepburn, Barry,

581
00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.559
<v Speaker 2>did you ever hear her banging on the door, Stephen, Stephen,

582
00:33:27.160 --> 00:33:31.960
<v Speaker 2>you let those boys go, You send in the clowns.

583
00:33:32.000 --> 00:33:41.279
<v Speaker 2>I'll send in the police. And Dave Thomas said, that's

584
00:33:41.279 --> 00:33:43.519
<v Speaker 2>more of a Martin short Katherine Hepburn than the Katherine

585
00:33:43.519 --> 00:33:47.519
<v Speaker 2>and harrickper And it's true because we always said his

586
00:33:47.640 --> 00:33:50.119
<v Speaker 2>Bob Hope was kind of people who did Bob Hope

587
00:33:50.119 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 2>were did his version of Bob Hope. They weren't doing

588
00:33:52.640 --> 00:33:54.359
<v Speaker 2>Bob Hope. They were doing the day Conn's Bob Hope.

589
00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:57.079
<v Speaker 2>But anyway, that's why Katherine Hepper's store.

590
00:33:59.119 --> 00:34:01.519
<v Speaker 1>That is a great That is a great story.

591
00:34:02.359 --> 00:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>The polaroid little detail. You need the detail to make it.

592
00:34:05.000 --> 00:34:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Real, becan detail. Yes, do you have an ad?

593
00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I do speak at pcond details. I was just busy

594
00:34:10.559 --> 00:34:13.960
<v Speaker 2>with my anecdote. And what's interesting about this ad is

595
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:17.719
<v Speaker 2>that I think I'm I rarely. I mean I don't rarely.

596
00:34:17.760 --> 00:34:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I often read ad copy for products that I believe in,

597
00:34:20.519 --> 00:34:25.000
<v Speaker 2>but I have never really hoped for in its own

598
00:34:26.199 --> 00:34:29.079
<v Speaker 2>Can you hear that buzzing a little bit? Okay? Because

599
00:34:29.079 --> 00:34:30.800
<v Speaker 2>this construction going on I can't give a show up,

600
00:34:31.679 --> 00:34:35.000
<v Speaker 2>but speak of buzzing and conflict. We hear a lot,

601
00:34:35.119 --> 00:34:39.320
<v Speaker 2>especially online, about conservatives attacking other conservatives. Sometimes it even

602
00:34:39.360 --> 00:34:41.719
<v Speaker 2>seems like conservatives are fighting each other more than they

603
00:34:41.719 --> 00:34:45.480
<v Speaker 2>fight the left. And that is where the new podcast,

604
00:34:45.639 --> 00:34:49.639
<v Speaker 2>Conservative Crossroads with Henry Olsen, who's a senior fellow at

605
00:34:49.639 --> 00:34:52.519
<v Speaker 2>the Ethics of Public Policy Center comes in. I love Henry.

606
00:34:53.000 --> 00:34:55.239
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't shy away from these disputes. It leans into

607
00:34:55.239 --> 00:34:58.480
<v Speaker 2>them by putting two conservatives who disagree about an important

608
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.719
<v Speaker 2>issue together to hash it out on the air. Every

609
00:35:01.760 --> 00:35:05.079
<v Speaker 2>other week, Conservative Crossroads does what no other program does.

610
00:35:05.119 --> 00:35:11.159
<v Speaker 2>It explores Conservatism's disagreements without name calling. Conservative Crossroads is

611
00:35:11.199 --> 00:35:14.159
<v Speaker 2>the podcast for conservatives who want to understand what's happening

612
00:35:14.519 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to their movement. Henry has been a guest on the

613
00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:24.079
<v Speaker 2>Rickashet podcast forever and he's always great. I am a huge,

614
00:35:24.199 --> 00:35:26.280
<v Speaker 2>huge fan of his and I kind of feel like

615
00:35:26.320 --> 00:35:28.119
<v Speaker 2>this is something if we're gonna if there's gonna be

616
00:35:28.159 --> 00:35:30.039
<v Speaker 2>a conservative movement, it's gonna have to figure out what

617
00:35:30.039 --> 00:35:33.079
<v Speaker 2>it stands for. And he's a perfect person to moderate

618
00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:36.159
<v Speaker 2>those conversations. So I think that this is going to

619
00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:39.599
<v Speaker 2>be a great and maybe even meaningful set of conversations.

620
00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:43.079
<v Speaker 2>So my hope is that we will all join Henry

621
00:35:43.280 --> 00:35:46.519
<v Speaker 2>Olsen and his guests at Conservative Crossroads every other Monday

622
00:35:46.880 --> 00:35:49.079
<v Speaker 2>as they hash out the ideas and principles that will

623
00:35:49.079 --> 00:35:51.480
<v Speaker 2>decide the future of the right. You can get Conservative

624
00:35:51.480 --> 00:35:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Crossroads from Ricochet or any platform where you get your podcasts,

625
00:35:55.000 --> 00:36:00.480
<v Speaker 2>but I recommend Ricochet, and it's called Conservatives Conservatism at

626
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.920
<v Speaker 2>the Crossroads, and it is at the crossroads, which is

627
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:07.800
<v Speaker 2>why all conservatives need Conservative Crossroads. Listen today, and I'm

628
00:36:07.840 --> 00:36:09.119
<v Speaker 2>thrilled that Henry's doing that.

629
00:36:10.440 --> 00:36:14.039
<v Speaker 1>So one place that Henry Olsen has been applying his

630
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:23.079
<v Speaker 1>rhetorical and policy rich and pole rich wares is in

631
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.559
<v Speaker 1>the pages of the Washington Post, which of course had

632
00:36:25.599 --> 00:36:33.199
<v Speaker 1>a gigantic layoff this week. A third of its staff

633
00:36:33.239 --> 00:36:39.880
<v Speaker 1>apparently dismissed in one fell swoop. Everyone told to stay

634
00:36:39.880 --> 00:36:43.519
<v Speaker 1>home eight thirty in the morning, log onto a zoom,

635
00:36:44.400 --> 00:36:47.639
<v Speaker 1>and the people who were let go were removed from

636
00:36:47.639 --> 00:36:51.320
<v Speaker 1>the computer system at nine am, no longer able to

637
00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:55.440
<v Speaker 1>have access, and were sent on their merry way. Now,

638
00:36:57.760 --> 00:37:00.800
<v Speaker 1>if you are a person on social media, which I

639
00:37:00.880 --> 00:37:03.559
<v Speaker 1>recommend you not be, but if you are, and you

640
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:07.199
<v Speaker 1>follow people in the media, which is kind of the

641
00:37:07.239 --> 00:37:10.320
<v Speaker 1>only real reason to be on something like Twitter, because

642
00:37:10.320 --> 00:37:13.920
<v Speaker 1>it's a way of getting news early. So my account,

643
00:37:14.039 --> 00:37:18.440
<v Speaker 1>my Twitter accounts disproportionately weighted toward news gatherers or people

644
00:37:18.519 --> 00:37:26.559
<v Speaker 1>in the news business. And you would have thought that

645
00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:34.159
<v Speaker 1>Japan had won World War Two from the tone of

646
00:37:34.199 --> 00:37:38.159
<v Speaker 1>the writing, not only on the part of the people

647
00:37:38.159 --> 00:37:40.199
<v Speaker 1>who had been laid off or the people who had

648
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:44.079
<v Speaker 1>formerly worked at the Washington Post and were watching the layoffs,

649
00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:51.400
<v Speaker 1>but everybody else in media, that a thing of historically,

650
00:37:51.800 --> 00:37:58.719
<v Speaker 1>historically cataclysmic awfulness had happened, and that there was one villain,

651
00:37:59.000 --> 00:38:01.920
<v Speaker 1>and one villain alone, and that was the guy who

652
00:38:02.000 --> 00:38:07.400
<v Speaker 1>in the previous twelve years had lost one hundred bajillion

653
00:38:07.559 --> 00:38:13.599
<v Speaker 1>dollars publishing The Washington Post and clearly had grown tired

654
00:38:14.320 --> 00:38:17.880
<v Speaker 1>of losing one hundred bajillion dollars and was maybe looking

655
00:38:17.920 --> 00:38:22.559
<v Speaker 1>to figure out a way to lose five bajillion dollars

656
00:38:22.679 --> 00:38:27.320
<v Speaker 1>instead of one hundred bajillion dollars. And for the suffering

657
00:38:27.480 --> 00:38:31.199
<v Speaker 1>that he endured over twelve years of losses, he has

658
00:38:31.239 --> 00:38:36.639
<v Speaker 1>been accused of being a monster, a tyrant, authoritarian, a

659
00:38:36.679 --> 00:38:40.280
<v Speaker 1>supporter letting democracy die in darkness and all of that. That,

660
00:38:40.360 --> 00:38:46.119
<v Speaker 1>of course, being Jeff Bezos. I'm told Rob, Yes, I'm

661
00:38:46.159 --> 00:38:47.920
<v Speaker 1>told that, I'm heartless.

662
00:38:48.159 --> 00:38:48.920
<v Speaker 2>I should understood.

663
00:38:49.400 --> 00:38:53.760
<v Speaker 1>Layoffs are a terrible thing, and people suffer through layoffs,

664
00:38:53.480 --> 00:38:58.400
<v Speaker 1>and you can't be happy about such things. First all,

665
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:02.000
<v Speaker 1>it's bad karma. And second of all, you know, obviously

666
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:06.039
<v Speaker 1>it's a terrible moment when anybody loses a job. You

667
00:39:06.039 --> 00:39:09.800
<v Speaker 1>know what I say to that, You know why, because

668
00:39:09.840 --> 00:39:12.599
<v Speaker 1>if I lost my job, every one of those people

669
00:39:12.599 --> 00:39:15.000
<v Speaker 1>who got laid off at the Washington Post would be

670
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:21.119
<v Speaker 1>dancing a jig and writing celebratory tweets about it. Brian

671
00:39:21.199 --> 00:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Stelter of CNN, who was you know, has been like

672
00:39:25.039 --> 00:39:31.199
<v Speaker 1>doing threnities and sorrowful this and sorrowful that. Literally said

673
00:39:31.239 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 1>something like he hoped that Elon Musk would go bankrupt

674
00:39:35.440 --> 00:39:39.320
<v Speaker 1>for buying Twitter four years ago or three years ago,

675
00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:42.360
<v Speaker 1>he hoped that Twitter would go out of business because

676
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.440
<v Speaker 1>Elon Musk was such a bad person, or something like that.

677
00:39:46.280 --> 00:39:50.000
<v Speaker 1>But not, you know, but in this case, yeah.

678
00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:53.119
<v Speaker 2>Whatever doesn't make it right, John, doesn't make it right,

679
00:39:55.159 --> 00:39:57.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make what much right. Just because bad people do

680
00:39:57.880 --> 00:40:00.239
<v Speaker 2>bad things doesn't mean that you that is right, it's

681
00:40:00.239 --> 00:40:01.639
<v Speaker 2>okay if you do bad things.

682
00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe that anybody is owed a job. I've

683
00:40:05.079 --> 00:40:09.079
<v Speaker 1>never believed that anybody was owed a job. And and

684
00:40:09.159 --> 00:40:13.000
<v Speaker 1>so you know, I've been through job changes that were

685
00:40:13.400 --> 00:40:16.400
<v Speaker 1>visited upon me that I did not want, and I

686
00:40:16.440 --> 00:40:19.280
<v Speaker 1>did not I will say I did not complain because

687
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:22.639
<v Speaker 1>if you lose somebody's confidence or something like that, then

688
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:25.760
<v Speaker 1>you go on your merry way and find another way

689
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.440
<v Speaker 1>to make a living. We find another somebody else who

690
00:40:28.559 --> 00:40:33.119
<v Speaker 1>wants the whares that you peddle. So I don't think

691
00:40:33.119 --> 00:40:37.159
<v Speaker 1>I'm inconsistent. And I think that they produced a garbage product,

692
00:40:37.440 --> 00:40:39.480
<v Speaker 1>that it was a bad newspaper. It's been a bad

693
00:40:39.519 --> 00:40:43.639
<v Speaker 1>newspaper for more than a decade. Bezos's investments did not

694
00:40:43.719 --> 00:40:46.960
<v Speaker 1>make it a better newspaper, and that wasn't his fault

695
00:40:46.960 --> 00:40:49.480
<v Speaker 1>because he's not the person making the paper. He's just

696
00:40:49.519 --> 00:40:52.719
<v Speaker 1>the person paying the bills. And so, like I say,

697
00:40:52.760 --> 00:40:53.400
<v Speaker 1>he got tired.

698
00:40:53.559 --> 00:40:56.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I love the idea though, that all of this

699
00:40:56.320 --> 00:41:01.360
<v Speaker 2>talk about it, all the all the complaining about this,

700
00:41:01.599 --> 00:41:04.960
<v Speaker 2>and the moaning and whining about it, that the solution

701
00:41:05.239 --> 00:41:12.199
<v Speaker 2>was simple puzzles, fun things, puzzles and recipes. Yeah, and uh,

702
00:41:12.239 --> 00:41:14.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, consumer information. That's why The New York Times

703
00:41:15.079 --> 00:41:17.960
<v Speaker 2>is robust and the Washington Post is not. Because they

704
00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.559
<v Speaker 2>have puzzles and recipes five ways to cook chocolate chip cookie.

705
00:41:22.719 --> 00:41:25.760
<v Speaker 2>People liked that. That give them what they want. If

706
00:41:25.800 --> 00:41:28.800
<v Speaker 2>you're not going to give them juicy celebrity stories and

707
00:41:29.400 --> 00:41:33.000
<v Speaker 2>lurid murder accounts, which is another thing they should be doing,

708
00:41:34.880 --> 00:41:38.239
<v Speaker 2>then give them, you know, like which TV should I buy?

709
00:41:38.880 --> 00:41:43.679
<v Speaker 2>Which headphones are good? How do I make a blueberry pie?

710
00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:47.440
<v Speaker 2>And uh, well here's the jumble, and they act like, oh,

711
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:48.920
<v Speaker 2>it's beneath us. Well, okay.

712
00:41:49.480 --> 00:41:51.000
<v Speaker 1>The whole point is that The New York Times is

713
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 1>a well run company that saw was it always red,

714
00:41:55.079 --> 00:41:58.440
<v Speaker 1>wasn't always but red tea leaves. It saw things happening,

715
00:41:58.480 --> 00:42:01.800
<v Speaker 1>It did tests, It developed things and had a puzzle.

716
00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:04.559
<v Speaker 1>It realized people love the puzzle, so it's like, you know,

717
00:42:04.559 --> 00:42:08.159
<v Speaker 1>maybe we should have another puzzle. So that they bought

718
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:12.320
<v Speaker 1>wordle from this guy who had invented wordle online. And

719
00:42:12.360 --> 00:42:15.039
<v Speaker 1>then they were like, you know, maybe word people love wordle.

720
00:42:15.159 --> 00:42:19.800
<v Speaker 1>Maybe we'll invent another puzzle, So then they added spelling. Me. Meanwhile,

721
00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.880
<v Speaker 1>they always knew that the food section was popular, so

722
00:42:23.320 --> 00:42:26.440
<v Speaker 1>and you know what people really love in the food section, recipes.

723
00:42:26.719 --> 00:42:30.760
<v Speaker 1>So they started a separate section called cooking, and they

724
00:42:30.840 --> 00:42:32.719
<v Speaker 1>not only did they have recipes and you had to

725
00:42:32.719 --> 00:42:35.360
<v Speaker 1>pay x I. There was great. There was a thing

726
00:42:35.360 --> 00:42:39.719
<v Speaker 1>where you but they then showed videos of how to

727
00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:43.239
<v Speaker 1>make the thing that you were making, the pasta dish

728
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:45.599
<v Speaker 1>that they said was really great and could take half

729
00:42:45.639 --> 00:42:48.519
<v Speaker 1>an hour. And then they tested that. It turned out

730
00:42:48.679 --> 00:42:51.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot of people wanted that, so they gave them more.

731
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:53.760
<v Speaker 1>And then it was like, well, if they like food,

732
00:42:53.880 --> 00:42:58.320
<v Speaker 1>if they like recipes, maybe they'll also like instructions on

733
00:42:58.320 --> 00:43:02.679
<v Speaker 1>what luggage to buy, because people want to learn, like

734
00:43:02.760 --> 00:43:07.880
<v Speaker 1>have some practical And then they did that and that worked. Meanwhile,

735
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:11.039
<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post is like Trump is bad, Trump is bad.

736
00:43:11.079 --> 00:43:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Trump is bad, And the New York Times did Trump.

737
00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:18.760
<v Speaker 2>Is bad too, with cookies.

738
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Plenty of Trump is bad, but also a rest and

739
00:43:22.800 --> 00:43:27.480
<v Speaker 1>a wild cutter, and and and and spelling bee and

740
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:32.000
<v Speaker 1>Sudoku and uh, you know, the new whatever and the

741
00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:38.079
<v Speaker 1>crossword and so it. Because when we were kids, newspapers

742
00:43:38.079 --> 00:43:38.559
<v Speaker 1>were fun.

743
00:43:39.599 --> 00:43:41.400
<v Speaker 2>Did the jumble, the jumble.

744
00:43:41.800 --> 00:43:47.119
<v Speaker 1>The jumble, comic strips, the sports section, the.

745
00:43:48.760 --> 00:43:50.960
<v Speaker 2>Going up to the California. The San fr Zoo Chronicle

746
00:43:51.039 --> 00:43:56.840
<v Speaker 2>had X rated movie listings, so you got a little like,

747
00:43:56.840 --> 00:43:58.719
<v Speaker 2>oh look at that little jolt.

748
00:43:58.960 --> 00:44:00.960
<v Speaker 1>The New York Times would not two X rayed listings,

749
00:44:00.960 --> 00:44:03.719
<v Speaker 1>but the New York List didn't too x.

750
00:44:03.800 --> 00:44:06.199
<v Speaker 2>Ray man that Actually, you know, people, you know, I'm

751
00:44:06.199 --> 00:44:08.000
<v Speaker 2>not gonna go I'm not gonna go to that movie theater.

752
00:44:08.039 --> 00:44:12.800
<v Speaker 2>But I'm I'm I didn't know that Wet Nurses was

753
00:44:12.840 --> 00:44:19.400
<v Speaker 2>playing there, now I know. So I generally agree with

754
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:19.599
<v Speaker 2>all that.

755
00:44:19.719 --> 00:44:24.559
<v Speaker 3>I have a slightly different take in so far as

756
00:44:24.920 --> 00:44:28.280
<v Speaker 3>I think. And I was talking to a former Washington

757
00:44:28.320 --> 00:44:30.280
<v Speaker 3>Post guy about this, but I don't want to credit

758
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:32.159
<v Speaker 3>him on the record, but you know, we we we

759
00:44:32.239 --> 00:44:35.519
<v Speaker 3>talked about it for a long time. Part of the problem. Look, so,

760
00:44:35.559 --> 00:44:38.599
<v Speaker 3>first of all, I come to this. My dad ran

761
00:44:38.639 --> 00:44:42.320
<v Speaker 3>a newspaper syndicate. Right, He ran features. He was the

762
00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.400
<v Speaker 3>guy who discovered Scott Adams and Dilbert. He was friends

763
00:44:46.400 --> 00:44:47.280
<v Speaker 3>with Charlie Schultz.

764
00:44:47.480 --> 00:44:50.639
<v Speaker 1>Right, he sent out, you should you should explain to

765
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:52.920
<v Speaker 1>people what a newspaper syndic it was, because this is

766
00:44:52.960 --> 00:44:54.039
<v Speaker 1>a job that doesn't exist.

767
00:44:54.079 --> 00:44:58.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, so like newspapers used to get like, let's put it.

768
00:44:58.559 --> 00:45:00.559
<v Speaker 3>I'll do it a really easy way for syndicating columnists.

769
00:45:01.119 --> 00:45:06.280
<v Speaker 3>If you were the Buffalo Times Dispatch, right, and you

770
00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:12.639
<v Speaker 3>wanted Tom Soul Tom Soul's column which appeared and that's

771
00:45:12.679 --> 00:45:14.840
<v Speaker 3>just say for the sake of argument, the San Francisco Chronicle,

772
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:17.119
<v Speaker 3>the way you did it was you went to something

773
00:45:17.159 --> 00:45:20.920
<v Speaker 3>called a syndicate and said, we want to subscribe to

774
00:45:21.039 --> 00:45:24.000
<v Speaker 3>that column because that was the only way someone in

775
00:45:24.039 --> 00:45:27.119
<v Speaker 3>Buffalo would be able to see it. It was a middleman, right,

776
00:45:27.199 --> 00:45:32.119
<v Speaker 3>And you know George will was syndicated in hundreds of newspapers.

777
00:45:32.159 --> 00:45:32.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, M.

778
00:45:32.559 --> 00:45:36.960
<v Speaker 3>Buckley was syndicated in hundreds of newspapers. But it wasn't

779
00:45:37.039 --> 00:45:43.760
<v Speaker 3>just you know, my dad's company made a huge share

780
00:45:43.800 --> 00:45:46.400
<v Speaker 3>of its money. Forget Peanuts, which they owned, and Garfield,

781
00:45:46.440 --> 00:45:49.079
<v Speaker 3>which they owned for a long time. There was this

782
00:45:49.119 --> 00:45:53.320
<v Speaker 3>thing called VCR Plus, which was this code that appeared

783
00:45:53.320 --> 00:45:56.480
<v Speaker 3>in the TV listings that allowed you to sort of

784
00:45:56.519 --> 00:45:59.679
<v Speaker 3>pre DVR. You punched in this code to this box

785
00:46:00.000 --> 00:46:02.199
<v Speaker 3>and it would record. It would set up to record

786
00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:04.079
<v Speaker 3>some show that you wanted to watch while you were

787
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:08.079
<v Speaker 3>away on a VHS tape. And they licensed the ability

788
00:46:08.119 --> 00:46:12.719
<v Speaker 3>to use those numbers and TV listings and so my

789
00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.679
<v Speaker 3>dad ran features where he had stringers writing stories about

790
00:46:17.239 --> 00:46:20.920
<v Speaker 3>state fairs or interesting animals, like don't even get my

791
00:46:21.000 --> 00:46:26.519
<v Speaker 3>dad started on the lie about that old phrase. You know,

792
00:46:27.239 --> 00:46:30.280
<v Speaker 3>dog bites man isn't a story, but man bites dog

793
00:46:30.400 --> 00:46:33.119
<v Speaker 3>is a story. Because my dad tried to play stories

794
00:46:33.159 --> 00:46:36.119
<v Speaker 3>about people biting dogs all the time and no one

795
00:46:36.159 --> 00:46:41.920
<v Speaker 3>would run them. But regardless, So anyway, the point is

796
00:46:42.840 --> 00:46:46.000
<v Speaker 3>I became a syndicated columnist in two thousand, right as

797
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.599
<v Speaker 3>the syndication business was starting to die. But it took

798
00:46:48.639 --> 00:46:52.199
<v Speaker 3>a while, and what really killed the syndication business and

799
00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:56.480
<v Speaker 3>ultimately over time the newspaper business was the decline of

800
00:46:56.559 --> 00:47:00.639
<v Speaker 3>the two or three newspaper town. And you know you

801
00:47:00.679 --> 00:47:02.320
<v Speaker 3>used to be my dad would send a salesman and say, hey,

802
00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:04.320
<v Speaker 3>do you want I don't know George Will, for say argument,

803
00:47:04.639 --> 00:47:07.079
<v Speaker 3>And they'd said love George Will. And the salesman would say, okay,

804
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:09.880
<v Speaker 3>there'll be five hundred dollars a week, and the other

805
00:47:09.920 --> 00:47:11.960
<v Speaker 3>would be like, oh, that's too rich for my blode

806
00:47:11.960 --> 00:47:13.760
<v Speaker 3>to say, okay, I'll go across the street and see

807
00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:16.440
<v Speaker 3>if the post wants it. And you would have competitive

808
00:47:16.440 --> 00:47:20.880
<v Speaker 3>pressure for building, forbidding on stuff Once the second newspaper

809
00:47:20.920 --> 00:47:25.679
<v Speaker 3>died because of cable, this was long before Internet. The

810
00:47:25.719 --> 00:47:29.280
<v Speaker 3>newspaper could say, sure, I want George Will. Salesman says

811
00:47:29.280 --> 00:47:31.920
<v Speaker 3>five hundred bucks. You say, I'll give you five, and

812
00:47:32.000 --> 00:47:34.159
<v Speaker 3>since you that was the only sale to make in

813
00:47:34.199 --> 00:47:37.440
<v Speaker 3>that district, you took the five bucks right. And then

814
00:47:37.480 --> 00:47:40.079
<v Speaker 3>when the Internet comes along, it commodified all this stuff, like,

815
00:47:40.079 --> 00:47:42.719
<v Speaker 3>if you want to read George Will or Tom Sol,

816
00:47:43.079 --> 00:47:45.360
<v Speaker 3>you didn't need to subscribe to some local paper. You

817
00:47:45.400 --> 00:47:47.000
<v Speaker 3>can get it on the internet at you know, a

818
00:47:47.000 --> 00:47:49.840
<v Speaker 3>dozen different sites, the drudge link and that kind of thing.

819
00:47:50.039 --> 00:47:52.000
<v Speaker 3>So it kind of destroyed the business anyway. The reason

820
00:47:52.079 --> 00:47:56.599
<v Speaker 3>I bring that up is that there was this period

821
00:47:56.639 --> 00:48:00.280
<v Speaker 3>of time after the second newspaper died, and all of

822
00:48:00.280 --> 00:48:04.719
<v Speaker 3>these cities where the newspaper left standing had an effect

823
00:48:04.719 --> 00:48:09.159
<v Speaker 3>a monopoly, and they were making enormous amounts of money.

824
00:48:09.719 --> 00:48:13.920
<v Speaker 3>And the problem was most newspapers paid dividends on their stock,

825
00:48:14.719 --> 00:48:17.840
<v Speaker 3>and shareholders would not take cuts and dividends to allow

826
00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:21.480
<v Speaker 3>newspapers to reinvest in their newspapers. And so eventually, as

827
00:48:21.559 --> 00:48:23.280
<v Speaker 3>more and more of the Internet took more and more

828
00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:27.239
<v Speaker 3>of what newspapers do, starting with classifieds, which was like

829
00:48:27.280 --> 00:48:27.840
<v Speaker 3>a death now.

830
00:48:27.960 --> 00:48:28.119
<v Speaker 2>Right.

831
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:31.320
<v Speaker 3>When it became less necessary to check the newspaper for

832
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:33.800
<v Speaker 3>sports scores, when it became less necessary to check a

833
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:38.840
<v Speaker 3>newspaper for stock prices, newspapers were left with no understanding

834
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:41.679
<v Speaker 3>of how to like adapt, and a bunch of them

835
00:48:41.760 --> 00:48:43.719
<v Speaker 3>just got worse and worse and worse and started selling

836
00:48:43.719 --> 00:48:49.480
<v Speaker 3>off parts of themselves. The Washington Post lasted longer and

837
00:48:49.559 --> 00:48:53.920
<v Speaker 3>developed a culture that was so entitled because it was

838
00:48:54.000 --> 00:48:56.760
<v Speaker 3>a massive monopoly. I mean, John, you know better than

839
00:48:56.800 --> 00:49:00.119
<v Speaker 3>I do about how vicious the Washington Post was. To

840
00:49:00.199 --> 00:49:03.800
<v Speaker 3>keep the Washington Times from getting anything like market share,

841
00:49:03.840 --> 00:49:06.000
<v Speaker 3>they would go to a car dealerships and say, if

842
00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:09.920
<v Speaker 3>you advertise in the in the Washington Times, you'll never write. Well,

843
00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.639
<v Speaker 3>you'll never advertise in the Washington Post. They made it

844
00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:16.320
<v Speaker 3>really hard for them to deliver the Washington Times. But

845
00:49:16.519 --> 00:49:19.559
<v Speaker 3>so that's why Warren Buffett invested in the Washington Post.

846
00:49:19.599 --> 00:49:22.039
<v Speaker 3>It was a monopoly and it was throwing off huge

847
00:49:22.079 --> 00:49:25.719
<v Speaker 3>piles of money. The problem with monopolies is they don't

848
00:49:25.800 --> 00:49:30.800
<v Speaker 3>learn lessons from competition, and so over time the smug

849
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:34.320
<v Speaker 3>kind of Oh, we're the party of Woodward and Bernstein,

850
00:49:34.320 --> 00:49:37.800
<v Speaker 3>We're the newspaper Woodward and Bernstein, that became their only

851
00:49:37.920 --> 00:49:41.559
<v Speaker 3>understanding of their mission. What in reality, getting back to

852
00:49:41.599 --> 00:49:44.880
<v Speaker 3>my dad's point and your point, is that lots of

853
00:49:44.880 --> 00:49:49.400
<v Speaker 3>people bought newspapers just for the sports, or just for

854
00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.079
<v Speaker 3>the local coverage, or just for the funny pages, or

855
00:49:52.199 --> 00:49:54.920
<v Speaker 3>just for the movie listings or whatever it was. And

856
00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:58.880
<v Speaker 3>when a newspaper starts to think, oh, no, we have

857
00:49:58.960 --> 00:50:01.159
<v Speaker 3>to the only reason we put about this newspaper is

858
00:50:01.199 --> 00:50:06.440
<v Speaker 3>for a ten part series on the climate crisis in Botswana.

859
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:08.519
<v Speaker 3>It turns out a lot of people don't want to

860
00:50:08.519 --> 00:50:13.320
<v Speaker 3>buy it, and The Times because it's essentially competing in

861
00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:16.320
<v Speaker 3>one of the last multi newspaper major cities in America,

862
00:50:17.000 --> 00:50:21.679
<v Speaker 3>and it's also competing in a national marketplace. It's not

863
00:50:22.039 --> 00:50:23.760
<v Speaker 3>the idea that the thing that draws me crazy is

864
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.079
<v Speaker 3>people say, oh, it's outrageous that Wordles paying for the

865
00:50:27.119 --> 00:50:32.440
<v Speaker 3>Africa Bureau. Well, Peanuts and Garfield paid for the Africa Bureau,

866
00:50:32.679 --> 00:50:36.119
<v Speaker 3>you know, three years ago at a different newspaper. It's like,

867
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:40.000
<v Speaker 3>newspapers are products, and if you just think it's your

868
00:50:40.119 --> 00:50:43.679
<v Speaker 3>only job is to sell a pretty sanctimonious thing, and

869
00:50:43.719 --> 00:50:46.280
<v Speaker 3>then you get bad at that. Right, They let Politico

870
00:50:46.360 --> 00:50:50.159
<v Speaker 3>eat their lunch. If you let another media outlet get

871
00:50:50.159 --> 00:50:53.039
<v Speaker 3>out of front of you in the nation's capital on

872
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:53.760
<v Speaker 3>the beat.

873
00:50:53.719 --> 00:51:01.679
<v Speaker 2>Following politics, my god, that they could have start for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

874
00:51:02.079 --> 00:51:05.599
<v Speaker 1>Politico was done by two Washington Post reporters who went

875
00:51:05.679 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to them and said, we have this idea for a

876
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:13.199
<v Speaker 1>politics only internet based publication that we would do out

877
00:51:13.199 --> 00:51:15.519
<v Speaker 1>of the Washington Post. And the Washington Post said, well,

878
00:51:15.519 --> 00:51:18.239
<v Speaker 1>we don't want that, and they were like, okay, we'll

879
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:21.840
<v Speaker 1>go and raise money on our own independently and go

880
00:51:21.920 --> 00:51:26.039
<v Speaker 1>do this and it was a profit maker in about

881
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:29.079
<v Speaker 1>a year. Something like that. Politico could have been inside

882
00:51:29.079 --> 00:51:31.599
<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post. So the thing was that the New

883
00:51:31.679 --> 00:51:33.920
<v Speaker 1>York Times innovated and the New York Times became a

884
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:38.320
<v Speaker 1>is a subscription product. Remember the thing about newspapers was

885
00:51:38.480 --> 00:51:41.719
<v Speaker 1>that they lost money on their subscribers. It costs twenty

886
00:51:41.800 --> 00:51:44.519
<v Speaker 1>it would cost thirty five cents, or it cost fifty

887
00:51:44.559 --> 00:51:48.159
<v Speaker 1>cents to print and deliver a newspaper per paper. Yeah,

888
00:51:48.159 --> 00:51:51.599
<v Speaker 1>but you charge ten cents of paper so that you

889
00:51:51.760 --> 00:51:55.760
<v Speaker 1>have advertising. So it was the TV advertising model that

890
00:51:55.880 --> 00:51:58.599
<v Speaker 1>died because of the Internet and because classified has died

891
00:51:58.639 --> 00:52:02.280
<v Speaker 1>and all of that. Times figured out a way to

892
00:52:02.400 --> 00:52:05.679
<v Speaker 1>get people to subscribe online, and so did the Wall

893
00:52:05.679 --> 00:52:09.039
<v Speaker 1>Street Journal, and you know who didn't The Washington Post

894
00:52:09.280 --> 00:52:12.679
<v Speaker 1>because their product was garbage and nobody.

895
00:52:12.480 --> 00:52:15.440
<v Speaker 2>Times iterated on the app over and over again. They

896
00:52:15.440 --> 00:52:19.559
<v Speaker 2>were they were pushing updates on that app. It was

897
00:52:19.599 --> 00:52:22.639
<v Speaker 2>incredibly irritating, but at the same time you understood what

898
00:52:22.639 --> 00:52:24.920
<v Speaker 2>they were doing, which they're trying everything, and they actually

899
00:52:24.960 --> 00:52:27.679
<v Speaker 2>were making it pretty good app. The weirdest thing about

900
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:32.000
<v Speaker 2>that subscriber number is that home subscribers, if in one

901
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:35.039
<v Speaker 2>way economically, are kind of lost leaders. But the other way,

902
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.400
<v Speaker 2>that's who you know is going to buy the paper

903
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:40.320
<v Speaker 2>even if they don't want to read it. It's going

904
00:52:40.400 --> 00:52:42.639
<v Speaker 2>to come to their door and they may not get

905
00:52:42.679 --> 00:52:46.239
<v Speaker 2>to it, whereas people who buy the paper on you know,

906
00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:49.000
<v Speaker 2>on the way from the newsstand are buying it because

907
00:52:49.039 --> 00:52:51.000
<v Speaker 2>they're going to read it. And you always want to

908
00:52:51.000 --> 00:52:52.679
<v Speaker 2>have a mix, You want to have a mix of people.

909
00:52:53.039 --> 00:52:55.880
<v Speaker 2>Some people were just like it's like the it's the

910
00:52:55.920 --> 00:53:00.679
<v Speaker 2>health club, you know, the health club the gym model,

911
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.039
<v Speaker 2>like I want you to I want you to be

912
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:04.480
<v Speaker 2>in the gym, but I don't want you to come

913
00:53:04.519 --> 00:53:07.599
<v Speaker 2>necessarily because if they've alybody who belonged to the Equinox

914
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:10.440
<v Speaker 2>showed up on Tuesday, it would be a disaster. What

915
00:53:10.559 --> 00:53:12.440
<v Speaker 2>you want is people on you know, between January one

916
00:53:12.519 --> 00:53:14.719
<v Speaker 2>and January ten to sign up for a year, and

917
00:53:14.760 --> 00:53:17.400
<v Speaker 2>they never show. That's how you'd tell you pay for

918
00:53:17.440 --> 00:53:20.199
<v Speaker 2>the everything, the sauna and all that stuff. But the

919
00:53:20.239 --> 00:53:22.360
<v Speaker 2>weirdest thing about I think, for all this stuff is

920
00:53:22.360 --> 00:53:28.280
<v Speaker 2>that is that they keep forgetting that you're the only

921
00:53:28.320 --> 00:53:30.480
<v Speaker 2>way to have a product that makes money is to

922
00:53:30.519 --> 00:53:34.559
<v Speaker 2>give people something they actually want. And if you give

923
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:37.880
<v Speaker 2>them something that you think they should want, you're giving

924
00:53:37.880 --> 00:53:40.039
<v Speaker 2>them homework, which is what the front page of every

925
00:53:40.079 --> 00:53:42.760
<v Speaker 2>newspaper is. But if you don't give them some dessert,

926
00:53:43.000 --> 00:53:45.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, and some little candy in there, they're just

927
00:53:45.679 --> 00:53:48.639
<v Speaker 2>not going to do it. And it's a very strange

928
00:53:48.639 --> 00:53:51.199
<v Speaker 2>thing that they didn't know that. That's that's the business

929
00:53:51.199 --> 00:53:52.039
<v Speaker 2>they have always been.

930
00:53:51.960 --> 00:53:57.199
<v Speaker 1>In, the reporters. So the reporters don't know that because

931
00:53:57.440 --> 00:54:01.599
<v Speaker 1>reporters are idiots. And I mean, if you work in

932
00:54:01.639 --> 00:54:04.320
<v Speaker 1>a business, I've worked in this business more than forty years.

933
00:54:04.880 --> 00:54:06.440
<v Speaker 1>And if you work in a business and you get

934
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:09.920
<v Speaker 1>into management, for example, which a lot of people don't,

935
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:11.719
<v Speaker 1>but if you if you want to know your business,

936
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:13.880
<v Speaker 1>you have to know how it works, where the money

937
00:54:13.880 --> 00:54:16.840
<v Speaker 1>comes from, how the advertisers interact with the business side,

938
00:54:17.480 --> 00:54:22.159
<v Speaker 1>what comes from where, who's supporting what, what, What drives

939
00:54:22.599 --> 00:54:27.480
<v Speaker 1>readership and what doesn't drive readership. But your average workaday

940
00:54:27.800 --> 00:54:32.079
<v Speaker 1>reporter journalist pays no attention because he's a sallipsist and

941
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:34.679
<v Speaker 1>he's only interested in what he's interested in, and he

942
00:54:34.760 --> 00:54:38.199
<v Speaker 1>pays no attention, and he thinks that he you know,

943
00:54:38.239 --> 00:54:40.559
<v Speaker 1>it's the it's the it's the story about the actor

944
00:54:40.920 --> 00:54:43.400
<v Speaker 1>you know, gets a part. And then somebody says, you know,

945
00:54:44.239 --> 00:54:47.199
<v Speaker 1>I'm in Hamlet. Oh yeah, what's that about. Oh it's

946
00:54:47.239 --> 00:54:49.400
<v Speaker 1>about this, it's about this guy second guard.

947
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:52.960
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's a William Christopher story. He played father more

948
00:54:53.000 --> 00:54:55.719
<v Speaker 2>Kahe on Mash and someone asked him, well, what's Mash about?

949
00:54:56.000 --> 00:54:56.920
<v Speaker 2>What's about this priest?

950
00:54:57.880 --> 00:55:01.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Exactly No. So right, so everybody thinks that they

951
00:55:01.920 --> 00:55:02.440
<v Speaker 1>have main.

952
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:05.719
<v Speaker 2>Character, main character syndromes. Right, what I like? I don't

953
00:55:05.760 --> 00:55:07.880
<v Speaker 2>know this. I'm this number may not be right, Okay,

954
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:11.840
<v Speaker 2>but the point is the same. I heard Steve Hayward

955
00:55:11.840 --> 00:55:13.519
<v Speaker 2>said this number. It may not be right. I mean,

956
00:55:13.519 --> 00:55:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I may be misunderstanding mishearing it. You know, one of

957
00:55:16.840 --> 00:55:21.199
<v Speaker 2>the great tragedies of the Washington Post convulsions is that

958
00:55:21.920 --> 00:55:27.360
<v Speaker 2>thirteen of their sixteen reporters covering climate issues were let go.

959
00:55:28.559 --> 00:55:31.119
<v Speaker 1>You know, this is absolutely untrue. Rob, I'm shocked that

960
00:55:31.159 --> 00:55:35.159
<v Speaker 1>you would mention this. Really, it's fifteen out of nineteen.

961
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.239
<v Speaker 1>Out of nineteen they had nineteen climate.

962
00:55:38.039 --> 00:55:41.000
<v Speaker 2>I will say, and now I will say, there are

963
00:55:41.039 --> 00:55:43.320
<v Speaker 2>only two. There are only two kinds of people in

964
00:55:43.360 --> 00:55:46.559
<v Speaker 2>the world, kinds of people who think that's funny, and

965
00:55:46.559 --> 00:55:47.920
<v Speaker 2>the kinds of people are like, I don't get it.

966
00:55:49.760 --> 00:55:51.599
<v Speaker 2>And if you are and I don't get it, I

967
00:55:51.599 --> 00:55:53.480
<v Speaker 2>have some very bad news for you. And if you

968
00:55:53.599 --> 00:55:55.880
<v Speaker 2>if you're the think it's funny, then you understand why

969
00:55:55.920 --> 00:55:57.920
<v Speaker 2>the Washington Post is having trouble.

970
00:55:58.079 --> 00:56:00.400
<v Speaker 3>So I'll just on that point where quickly, because like

971
00:56:00.599 --> 00:56:06.880
<v Speaker 3>part of the philosophy of the Dispatch is to find

972
00:56:07.679 --> 00:56:15.400
<v Speaker 3>market gaps where journalists, mainstream journalism is not meeting the

973
00:56:15.480 --> 00:56:18.599
<v Speaker 3>right demand. Right and we're a small niche player all

974
00:56:18.639 --> 00:56:22.000
<v Speaker 3>that kind of stuff. But you know, we have a

975
00:56:22.039 --> 00:56:27.760
<v Speaker 3>religion thing on Sundays that really isn't about MAGA or

976
00:56:28.039 --> 00:56:32.000
<v Speaker 3>you know, washing it know the story about you know,

977
00:56:32.039 --> 00:56:34.440
<v Speaker 3>our evangelical kind of support Trump. It's about the other

978
00:56:35.000 --> 00:56:37.440
<v Speaker 3>things that people want to read about in religion. I've

979
00:56:37.679 --> 00:56:39.559
<v Speaker 3>been pushing and we finally have launched this thing called

980
00:56:39.599 --> 00:56:43.039
<v Speaker 3>Dispatch Energy. And part of the whole point of it

981
00:56:43.079 --> 00:56:47.039
<v Speaker 3>is that is exactly this point is that I once

982
00:56:47.079 --> 00:56:49.239
<v Speaker 3>went through and looked at the number of people who

983
00:56:49.239 --> 00:56:52.119
<v Speaker 3>were on the climate desk at NPR, right they call

984
00:56:52.159 --> 00:56:54.519
<v Speaker 3>it the climate disc or the climate desk at the

985
00:56:54.519 --> 00:56:59.280
<v Speaker 3>New York Times or the Washington Post, and virtually all

986
00:56:59.519 --> 00:57:03.079
<v Speaker 3>environments reporting is really just climate change reporting.

987
00:57:03.880 --> 00:57:05.519
<v Speaker 2>And what I always.

988
00:57:05.239 --> 00:57:06.800
<v Speaker 3>Would pitch when I talk to investors, when I talk

989
00:57:06.800 --> 00:57:09.679
<v Speaker 3>to other people about it is that, like, I have

990
00:57:09.760 --> 00:57:15.840
<v Speaker 3>relatives in Alaska, who are you know, they don't all

991
00:57:15.880 --> 00:57:18.360
<v Speaker 3>think climate change is a hoax, but they're not particularly

992
00:57:18.480 --> 00:57:20.960
<v Speaker 3>worried about it. If you live in Alaska, being told

993
00:57:21.039 --> 00:57:22.480
<v Speaker 3>is going to get warmer, it is not the mys

994
00:57:22.480 --> 00:57:27.440
<v Speaker 3>scariest thing. And they're pretty sort of right wing on

995
00:57:27.559 --> 00:57:30.119
<v Speaker 3>a whole bunch of issues. They're you know, pregging mag

996
00:57:30.159 --> 00:57:34.840
<v Speaker 3>adjacents on stuff. But they're huge hunters and fishers, and

997
00:57:34.960 --> 00:57:38.119
<v Speaker 3>they care a lot about like land use and water

998
00:57:38.199 --> 00:57:41.280
<v Speaker 3>quality and conservation and all of these kinds of things,

999
00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:44.599
<v Speaker 3>and yet go try to find coverage of that stuff

1000
00:57:44.639 --> 00:57:49.280
<v Speaker 3>that doesn't have at least three two b shore paragraphs

1001
00:57:49.320 --> 00:57:51.880
<v Speaker 3>near the top about how climate change is making all

1002
00:57:51.920 --> 00:57:54.320
<v Speaker 3>of this work, or how in an era of climate

1003
00:57:54.400 --> 00:57:57.119
<v Speaker 3>change right right, And there are lots and lots and

1004
00:57:57.199 --> 00:58:00.519
<v Speaker 3>lots of stories about the environment that have jack to

1005
00:58:00.599 --> 00:58:04.519
<v Speaker 3>do with climate change. And it's very difficult to find

1006
00:58:04.559 --> 00:58:08.039
<v Speaker 3>mainstream reporting about the environment that isn't really just a

1007
00:58:08.079 --> 00:58:11.920
<v Speaker 3>bunch of kids just doing more special pleading about how

1008
00:58:12.000 --> 00:58:13.760
<v Speaker 3>everyone needs to care as much as they do about

1009
00:58:13.760 --> 00:58:14.519
<v Speaker 3>climate change.

1010
00:58:14.880 --> 00:58:17.840
<v Speaker 2>Well, here's the article you'll never read, or the headline

1011
00:58:17.840 --> 00:58:24.480
<v Speaker 2>you'll never see. Washington Post financial disruption fourteen of their

1012
00:58:24.599 --> 00:58:32.280
<v Speaker 2>nineteen reporters covering lurid unsolved serial killer mysteries or let go,

1013
00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:36.119
<v Speaker 2>and I would I would submit to you, sir, that

1014
00:58:36.599 --> 00:58:41.519
<v Speaker 2>had the Washington Post had fifteen reporters covering lurid unsolved

1015
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:45.480
<v Speaker 2>serial killer mysteries, they'd be breaking it in. They'd be

1016
00:58:45.519 --> 00:58:46.599
<v Speaker 2>printing money. Well.

1017
00:58:46.639 --> 00:58:49.760
<v Speaker 3>Also, a more serious point, if the Washington Post cared

1018
00:58:49.880 --> 00:58:53.559
<v Speaker 3>more about local coverage and crime, which a lot of

1019
00:58:53.559 --> 00:58:57.159
<v Speaker 3>people in Washington actually care about, it would be good

1020
00:58:57.679 --> 00:59:01.480
<v Speaker 3>for fighting crime. If the police thought, oh, crap if

1021
00:59:01.519 --> 00:59:04.119
<v Speaker 3>we don't get I mean, I haven't looked in recent years,

1022
00:59:04.119 --> 00:59:10.239
<v Speaker 3>but it wasn't very long ago that the homicides you know,

1023
00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:17.920
<v Speaker 3>solve rate whatever it's called, was way below half. It's like, literally,

1024
00:59:17.960 --> 00:59:21.719
<v Speaker 3>people are getting literally getting away with murder. And maybe

1025
00:59:21.760 --> 00:59:24.639
<v Speaker 3>if there was more political pressure that came from people

1026
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:28.199
<v Speaker 3>reading about all these murders, the cops and the politicians

1027
00:59:28.239 --> 00:59:30.159
<v Speaker 3>would respond to it and do something that you know,

1028
00:59:31.400 --> 00:59:34.000
<v Speaker 3>made them deal with murder. And like, the people getting

1029
00:59:34.079 --> 00:59:38.760
<v Speaker 3>murdered are wildly disproportionately people of color, poor people, people

1030
00:59:38.760 --> 00:59:41.360
<v Speaker 3>in bad neighborhoods. And yet that's the reason why they

1031
00:59:41.360 --> 00:59:43.079
<v Speaker 3>didn't want to do a lot of the local coverage

1032
00:59:43.079 --> 00:59:45.920
<v Speaker 3>is because it was sort of embarrassing to their worldview anyway.

1033
00:59:45.960 --> 00:59:47.599
<v Speaker 2>It's very annoying.

1034
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:51.039
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, anyway, So I just it was. It's been an

1035
00:59:51.079 --> 00:59:53.239
<v Speaker 1>amusing couple of days for those of us who do

1036
00:59:53.320 --> 00:59:56.800
<v Speaker 1>not cry crocodile tears over the job losses of people

1037
00:59:57.119 --> 00:59:59.480
<v Speaker 1>that we do not know, because you know, Amazon laid

1038
00:59:59.480 --> 01:00:03.039
<v Speaker 1>off sixteen thousand people last month, and I didn't see

1039
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:06.880
<v Speaker 1>people writing the you know, sadly I've been let go

1040
01:00:07.039 --> 01:00:10.719
<v Speaker 1>from my Amazon warehouse job. He is you know, dm

1041
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:13.480
<v Speaker 1>me on signal if you have another job at another

1042
01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:17.159
<v Speaker 1>warehouse or you know the Jeff Stein, the economics reporter

1043
01:00:17.239 --> 01:00:20.039
<v Speaker 1>of the Washington Post, saying, it's so terrible what happened

1044
01:00:20.039 --> 01:00:22.840
<v Speaker 1>in the layoffs at Amazon, because they don't like Amazon,

1045
01:00:23.039 --> 01:00:25.119
<v Speaker 1>so they don't care, and they don't care about Amazon.

1046
01:00:25.400 --> 01:00:27.679
<v Speaker 1>They care about climate change or whatever it is they

1047
01:00:27.679 --> 01:00:29.639
<v Speaker 1>care about, or they want to, you know, support Amas.

1048
01:00:29.760 --> 01:00:32.559
<v Speaker 1>They want they want to see Israel sink into the sea.

1049
01:00:32.719 --> 01:00:35.360
<v Speaker 1>That's what's important to them. And fine, they get to

1050
01:00:35.400 --> 01:00:38.719
<v Speaker 1>have their passions if they have them. I can have

1051
01:00:38.800 --> 01:00:41.840
<v Speaker 1>contempt for them and hope that their institution fails because

1052
01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:44.239
<v Speaker 1>I think it does more harm than good. And Jeff

1053
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Bezos can decide at some point that he's not going

1054
01:00:46.920 --> 01:00:50.119
<v Speaker 1>to spend one hundred million dollars on their foolishness and

1055
01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:53.239
<v Speaker 1>things that he has literally no reason to believe are

1056
01:00:53.320 --> 01:00:56.119
<v Speaker 1>making the country, as Jonah you would say, are making

1057
01:00:56.280 --> 01:00:58.360
<v Speaker 1>either the city that the paper is in or the

1058
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:01.599
<v Speaker 1>country that the paper is about out any better. And

1059
01:01:01.679 --> 01:01:03.119
<v Speaker 1>so what is he doing this for?

1060
01:01:03.440 --> 01:01:04.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so what is he doing?

1061
01:01:05.840 --> 01:01:09.000
<v Speaker 3>I take your point on all the individual examples of

1062
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:10.920
<v Speaker 3>shoden Freud and arrogance and all that kind of stuff.

1063
01:01:11.079 --> 01:01:14.960
<v Speaker 3>At the same time, I like newspapers. I want to

1064
01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:22.000
<v Speaker 3>see just Bezos succeed here. And I will say, you know,

1065
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:26.079
<v Speaker 3>the amount of the number of people. I mean, we've

1066
01:01:26.079 --> 01:01:27.760
<v Speaker 3>talked about this years ago, is like the number of

1067
01:01:27.800 --> 01:01:31.000
<v Speaker 3>people in media is smaller than like the number of

1068
01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:32.840
<v Speaker 3>coal miners now right. It's just like there's not a

1069
01:01:32.880 --> 01:01:34.920
<v Speaker 3>lot of jobs and journalism, and I think that's bad

1070
01:01:34.920 --> 01:01:39.880
<v Speaker 3>for the country. But I think it's also I don't

1071
01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:41.519
<v Speaker 3>know this, but I've now heard this from a couple

1072
01:01:41.519 --> 01:01:46.519
<v Speaker 3>of different people who think it's true that that Bezos

1073
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:49.920
<v Speaker 3>and the new and will Lewis and these guys, they

1074
01:01:50.000 --> 01:01:53.039
<v Speaker 3>probably didn't want to lay off everybody in the sports

1075
01:01:53.079 --> 01:01:55.440
<v Speaker 3>section like that, or everybody in the Forum and the

1076
01:01:55.840 --> 01:01:57.480
<v Speaker 3>so many of the people in the Foreign Bureau and

1077
01:01:57.480 --> 01:01:59.119
<v Speaker 3>the Middle East BUAU and all that kind of stuff. But

1078
01:01:59.239 --> 01:02:06.920
<v Speaker 3>because of the union and the contract, you cannot fire piecemeal.

1079
01:02:07.840 --> 01:02:09.800
<v Speaker 3>The only way to get rid of the bad apples

1080
01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:11.840
<v Speaker 3>is to throw away the good apples. And a couple

1081
01:02:11.880 --> 01:02:14.639
<v Speaker 3>people have said to me, don't be surprised if some

1082
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:18.519
<v Speaker 3>of the non Hamasnik foreign correspondents or some of those

1083
01:02:18.599 --> 01:02:21.519
<v Speaker 3>are some of the good sports writers get hired back

1084
01:02:22.000 --> 01:02:24.360
<v Speaker 3>on contract because the Post has done that in the past,

1085
01:02:24.679 --> 01:02:26.639
<v Speaker 3>and it's a way to get around some of these

1086
01:02:26.719 --> 01:02:31.960
<v Speaker 3>kinds of problems. But I think the the the unwilling.

1087
01:02:32.079 --> 01:02:36.079
<v Speaker 3>So my brother used to be obsessed with this, and

1088
01:02:36.119 --> 01:02:38.239
<v Speaker 3>I've thought about this in all sorts of other context

1089
01:02:38.280 --> 01:02:44.159
<v Speaker 3>about stories that newspapers will not cover for their own

1090
01:02:44.480 --> 01:02:47.000
<v Speaker 3>business self interest. And the example my brother always used

1091
01:02:47.039 --> 01:02:48.960
<v Speaker 3>to use was that, you know, my brother is the

1092
01:02:48.960 --> 01:02:49.800
<v Speaker 3>guy who taught.

1093
01:02:49.599 --> 01:02:51.280
<v Speaker 4>Me that.

1094
01:02:52.880 --> 01:02:56.159
<v Speaker 3>The one of the key parts of the Mob's business

1095
01:02:56.199 --> 01:03:00.480
<v Speaker 3>model is to get go after put pressure on you

1096
01:03:00.519 --> 01:03:03.199
<v Speaker 3>on things that are on a clock, right, And he

1097
01:03:03.280 --> 01:03:06.320
<v Speaker 3>learned this because he drove a fish delivery truck at

1098
01:03:06.320 --> 01:03:08.480
<v Speaker 3>the Fulton Fish Market. And if you don't get your

1099
01:03:08.480 --> 01:03:11.519
<v Speaker 3>fish delivered on time, your fish is useless. If you

1100
01:03:11.559 --> 01:03:14.719
<v Speaker 3>don't get your newspaper delivered on time, your newspaper is useless.

1101
01:03:15.159 --> 01:03:17.960
<v Speaker 3>And it's not like the Mob could stop any of

1102
01:03:17.960 --> 01:03:19.400
<v Speaker 3>these things, but it could delay it.

1103
01:03:20.159 --> 01:03:22.679
<v Speaker 2>And the Mob owned like.

1104
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:26.480
<v Speaker 3>The newspaper delivery trucks for all these newspapers, and no

1105
01:03:26.559 --> 01:03:30.039
<v Speaker 3>newspaper would write about it because it would be a

1106
01:03:30.119 --> 01:03:33.199
<v Speaker 3>death now for them. And I think the dog that

1107
01:03:33.239 --> 01:03:36.039
<v Speaker 3>doesn't bark in all of this story about the role

1108
01:03:36.119 --> 01:03:38.679
<v Speaker 3>that the Guild or whatever these things are called plays

1109
01:03:38.679 --> 01:03:41.760
<v Speaker 3>in this story. The fact that no one wants to

1110
01:03:41.760 --> 01:03:45.199
<v Speaker 3>write about it is just telling. It's sort of a

1111
01:03:45.239 --> 01:03:46.960
<v Speaker 3>revealed by revealed preference.

1112
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:50.480
<v Speaker 1>I got one thing since you mentioned the Dispatch I

1113
01:03:50.519 --> 01:03:54.519
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about. I mean commentary, like the Dispatch

1114
01:03:55.039 --> 01:04:00.840
<v Speaker 1>is a minno in the sea of mass media mass media.

1115
01:04:01.039 --> 01:04:05.519
<v Speaker 1>I mean our podcast is now reasonably close to mass media.

1116
01:04:05.599 --> 01:04:10.719
<v Speaker 1>Was looking at some cable news numbers and our audience

1117
01:04:10.840 --> 01:04:15.480
<v Speaker 1>is not that much smaller than some of the lower

1118
01:04:15.559 --> 01:04:16.320
<v Speaker 1>ratings shows.

1119
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:19.719
<v Speaker 3>I've made a point to the new people. It's sort

1120
01:04:19.719 --> 01:04:21.719
<v Speaker 3>of like there's some of these charts going around about

1121
01:04:21.719 --> 01:04:25.800
<v Speaker 3>how all of these central banks their gold assets are

1122
01:04:25.840 --> 01:04:28.480
<v Speaker 3>eclipsing their dollars, and everyone's talking about how like that's

1123
01:04:28.480 --> 01:04:30.639
<v Speaker 3>so scary about lack of faith in the dollars. It's

1124
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:34.480
<v Speaker 3>because gold is going up threefold in price. So like

1125
01:04:34.480 --> 01:04:38.679
<v Speaker 3>when ratings collapse for the networks, it doesn't really good everything.

1126
01:04:38.599 --> 01:04:41.920
<v Speaker 1>Podcast, I will say, I'm saying so, but just talking

1127
01:04:41.920 --> 01:04:44.719
<v Speaker 1>about mino side. So I took over Commentary in two

1128
01:04:44.760 --> 01:04:48.280
<v Speaker 1>thousand and nine, and it is a not for profit institution.

1129
01:04:49.159 --> 01:04:55.519
<v Speaker 1>For sure, gets some of its money from subscriptions. It

1130
01:04:55.519 --> 01:04:58.480
<v Speaker 1>gets some money from advertising, both on the podcast and

1131
01:04:58.480 --> 01:05:01.440
<v Speaker 1>in the magazine, and then it has to rely on

1132
01:05:01.960 --> 01:05:05.679
<v Speaker 1>the large s of donors who aren't Jeff Bezos. But

1133
01:05:05.800 --> 01:05:10.440
<v Speaker 1>I have a very generous donor base, and they provide

1134
01:05:11.760 --> 01:05:14.000
<v Speaker 1>donations that are you know, tax exempt.

1135
01:05:15.760 --> 01:05:16.639
<v Speaker 2>Can imagine. I can't.

1136
01:05:16.639 --> 01:05:18.679
<v Speaker 3>I can't believe Rob is not making a snide comment

1137
01:05:18.719 --> 01:05:21.320
<v Speaker 3>about the quote unquote commentary donor base.

1138
01:05:21.639 --> 01:05:25.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, he's paid by commentary, so you better watch out there.

1139
01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:28.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay, it's like the it's like the mobbed up trucks.

1140
01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:29.199
<v Speaker 3>He just can't talk about it.

1141
01:05:29.400 --> 01:05:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, listen, you know there are proud people. There are

1142
01:05:33.360 --> 01:05:36.840
<v Speaker 2>proud people, and I salute them and I salute their traditions.

1143
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:40.039
<v Speaker 1>He's a columnist with commentary. Yeah, he's the truck. I'm

1144
01:05:40.079 --> 01:05:43.079
<v Speaker 1>the truck. I'm the mafia, and he's the truck. But

1145
01:05:43.159 --> 01:05:44.960
<v Speaker 1>here's my point, which is that I took over an

1146
01:05:45.000 --> 01:05:47.960
<v Speaker 1>institution in two thousand and nine, okay, in the middle

1147
01:05:48.000 --> 01:05:50.719
<v Speaker 1>of the financial meltdown, and some of our money went

1148
01:05:50.760 --> 01:05:53.719
<v Speaker 1>down and all of that, and I'm one of my

1149
01:05:53.840 --> 01:05:57.639
<v Speaker 1>obsessions is I want to make sure the commentary survives

1150
01:05:58.039 --> 01:06:01.440
<v Speaker 1>to its hundredth birthday, which is Nomber nineteen to twenty

1151
01:06:01.480 --> 01:06:04.760
<v Speaker 1>forty five. Started in November nineteen forty five. I will

1152
01:06:04.800 --> 01:06:08.119
<v Speaker 1>not be the editor Commentary in two thousand and four

1153
01:06:08.119 --> 01:06:10.760
<v Speaker 1>to five, should I be alive at that point, I

1154
01:06:10.840 --> 01:06:15.400
<v Speaker 1>will be eighty four years old. And I assume that

1155
01:06:15.480 --> 01:06:18.559
<v Speaker 1>I will, you know, be on a sharpest attack. I

1156
01:06:18.559 --> 01:06:20.480
<v Speaker 1>won't be on a golf course because I don't play golf,

1157
01:06:20.519 --> 01:06:23.440
<v Speaker 1>but I will be adjacent to some golf course, perhaps

1158
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:25.440
<v Speaker 1>with one of those hats, with a little you know,

1159
01:06:25.960 --> 01:06:26.320
<v Speaker 1>you'll be on.

1160
01:06:26.280 --> 01:06:29.159
<v Speaker 2>A golf cotp. I just won't know it right.

1161
01:06:29.519 --> 01:06:32.519
<v Speaker 1>So, but this is like my obsession. So and I

1162
01:06:32.599 --> 01:06:35.440
<v Speaker 1>want to provide more bang for the buck and run

1163
01:06:35.480 --> 01:06:39.039
<v Speaker 1>an efficient institution. So over the course of the seventeen

1164
01:06:39.079 --> 01:06:41.960
<v Speaker 1>years that I've been the editor of Commentary, the staff

1165
01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:47.639
<v Speaker 1>has gone from fifteen full time employees to six. Now

1166
01:06:47.840 --> 01:06:51.760
<v Speaker 1>why was that possible? It was possible because as things developed,

1167
01:06:52.840 --> 01:06:55.639
<v Speaker 1>some of the jobs that existed that were part and

1168
01:06:55.679 --> 01:06:58.119
<v Speaker 1>parcel of what it meant to run a magazine no

1169
01:06:58.199 --> 01:07:03.639
<v Speaker 1>longer were. I didn't need an advertising director because advertising

1170
01:07:04.320 --> 01:07:06.000
<v Speaker 1>it didn't work that way anymore. I didn't need a

1171
01:07:06.039 --> 01:07:11.559
<v Speaker 1>circulation director because circulation went basically mostly through an online system.

1172
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:14.280
<v Speaker 1>And I didn't need someone to manage it day by day.

1173
01:07:14.480 --> 01:07:18.239
<v Speaker 1>I didn't need four people working full time on the website.

1174
01:07:18.400 --> 01:07:20.280
<v Speaker 1>I didn't need this. I didn't need that. I only

1175
01:07:20.320 --> 01:07:23.760
<v Speaker 1>I didn't need four editors. Basically we have two and

1176
01:07:23.960 --> 01:07:26.519
<v Speaker 1>like that. So in the end, I have run an

1177
01:07:26.559 --> 01:07:32.000
<v Speaker 1>institution that has gone from fifteen staffers to six and

1178
01:07:32.079 --> 01:07:36.039
<v Speaker 1>has and I have done this while continuing to raise

1179
01:07:36.079 --> 01:07:38.239
<v Speaker 1>money and trying to put money away that we raise,

1180
01:07:38.280 --> 01:07:42.639
<v Speaker 1>an access and all of that. So I so when

1181
01:07:42.679 --> 01:07:46.960
<v Speaker 1>I say that I am you know, I find this

1182
01:07:47.119 --> 01:07:50.079
<v Speaker 1>all a little appalling. I say this from the perspective

1183
01:07:50.079 --> 01:07:52.840
<v Speaker 1>of somebody who has had to make very hard decisions

1184
01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:57.000
<v Speaker 1>over the course of my tenure as a boss about

1185
01:07:57.159 --> 01:08:00.320
<v Speaker 1>employment of people and whether or not they are necessary

1186
01:08:00.400 --> 01:08:04.599
<v Speaker 1>to the core emission of my institution, and or whether

1187
01:08:05.079 --> 01:08:09.199
<v Speaker 1>it can be run by having someone double up that job.

1188
01:08:09.400 --> 01:08:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Or you know, I edit almost everything in the magazine myself,

1189
01:08:13.679 --> 01:08:16.000
<v Speaker 1>for example, like there are a fits, whereas that wasn't

1190
01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:20.840
<v Speaker 1>always the case, and so that is something that I've

1191
01:08:20.880 --> 01:08:25.359
<v Speaker 1>done to provide for the continuing health and vitality of

1192
01:08:25.359 --> 01:08:30.800
<v Speaker 1>my small Nonetheless, its loss would be an incalculable loss

1193
01:08:30.840 --> 01:08:33.840
<v Speaker 1>in my view for American culture and American life, and

1194
01:08:33.880 --> 01:08:36.479
<v Speaker 1>so I'm husbanding it and trying to be a steward

1195
01:08:36.479 --> 01:08:37.239
<v Speaker 1>of it properly.

1196
01:08:37.560 --> 01:08:40.319
<v Speaker 2>You are doing a great job. Has everybody told you

1197
01:08:40.359 --> 01:08:41.800
<v Speaker 2>that you're doing a fantastic.

1198
01:08:41.760 --> 01:08:44.600
<v Speaker 1>Thank you very much. I'm very but I would.

1199
01:08:44.479 --> 01:08:48.439
<v Speaker 2>Quibble with some of the budgetary outlays. But really, you

1200
01:08:48.479 --> 01:08:51.359
<v Speaker 2>know here there mostly it's fine. Yeah, it's fine, but

1201
01:08:52.319 --> 01:08:54.640
<v Speaker 2>you may have to cut you know, I know you

1202
01:08:54.680 --> 01:08:59.039
<v Speaker 2>have fifteen people covering the loyalty is reel first desk.

1203
01:09:01.359 --> 01:09:05.199
<v Speaker 1>That's right, Yes, yes, it's fine. Don't look at apex

1204
01:09:05.479 --> 01:09:09.520
<v Speaker 1>foolishness in New Jersey. We are not look over here.

1205
01:09:10.239 --> 01:09:14.439
<v Speaker 1>It's terrible thing that a Muslim says, that's what we

1206
01:09:14.520 --> 01:09:16.680
<v Speaker 1>do here in commentary you do. I'm only bring this

1207
01:09:16.760 --> 01:09:18.800
<v Speaker 1>up to say this is how we this.

1208
01:09:18.800 --> 01:09:20.319
<v Speaker 2>Is how you do, This is how we do.

1209
01:09:20.479 --> 01:09:23.039
<v Speaker 1>This is this is what you do in this atmosphere.

1210
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:26.560
<v Speaker 1>If you're not you know, if you what you want

1211
01:09:26.600 --> 01:09:30.760
<v Speaker 1>to do is like make something like build its foundation,

1212
01:09:30.880 --> 01:09:32.800
<v Speaker 1>make it firm, make sure that it will serve.

1213
01:09:32.680 --> 01:09:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Nobody, nobody, nobody's You're not on trial here. John. We

1214
01:09:36.079 --> 01:09:37.399
<v Speaker 2>know you're doing.

1215
01:09:41.560 --> 01:09:43.199
<v Speaker 1>But you know who is you know who is on

1216
01:09:43.319 --> 01:09:45.600
<v Speaker 1>trial seven years after his death, Jeffrey Epstein.

1217
01:09:46.760 --> 01:09:49.520
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, let me float this to you guys. Okay, yes, now,

1218
01:09:49.600 --> 01:09:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm not talking about like, oh the Grand Conspiracy there.

1219
01:09:52.000 --> 01:09:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I just need a way to like, I'm baffled by who.

1220
01:09:56.319 --> 01:09:57.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean a lot of it's just that I'm a

1221
01:09:57.680 --> 01:09:59.800
<v Speaker 2>Pollyanna in any ways, and I just never imagine that

1222
01:09:59.800 --> 01:10:03.039
<v Speaker 2>this it is true. But like what I'm a'm baffled

1223
01:10:03.039 --> 01:10:05.800
<v Speaker 2>by who Jeffrey Epstein was. And I'm looking at that,

1224
01:10:05.840 --> 01:10:08.039
<v Speaker 2>and I'm looking at the emails and I'm reading them,

1225
01:10:08.039 --> 01:10:11.439
<v Speaker 2>and it seems to me that all the people he

1226
01:10:11.520 --> 01:10:16.960
<v Speaker 2>hung out with he deeply hated. Like there's like, if

1227
01:10:17.000 --> 01:10:19.600
<v Speaker 2>you're going to create a character, he's like a character

1228
01:10:19.640 --> 01:10:23.640
<v Speaker 2>out of a Ballzac novel or a social novel from

1229
01:10:23.640 --> 01:10:29.359
<v Speaker 2>the nineteenth century. He's this guy who is connected to everyone,

1230
01:10:30.079 --> 01:10:33.520
<v Speaker 2>but he hates them. And I think that if Jeffrey

1231
01:10:33.520 --> 01:10:39.319
<v Speaker 2>Epstein could be it's alive somewhere, it could be. Possibly

1232
01:10:39.319 --> 01:10:41.199
<v Speaker 2>he's not. But if you could come back to Earth

1233
01:10:41.319 --> 01:10:45.439
<v Speaker 2>right now, he'd be thrilled at the destruction of the

1234
01:10:45.479 --> 01:10:48.560
<v Speaker 2>reputations of the people that he called. He wouldn't be appalled.

1235
01:10:48.880 --> 01:10:50.479
<v Speaker 2>He wouldn't say, oh my god, these are my friends.

1236
01:10:50.479 --> 01:10:53.920
<v Speaker 2>So there were decent people. I think he hated them

1237
01:10:53.960 --> 01:10:58.119
<v Speaker 2>so deeply that the one person who's completely thrilled by

1238
01:10:58.199 --> 01:11:01.680
<v Speaker 2>all this would be Jeffrey Epstein. What do you think?

1239
01:11:03.119 --> 01:11:04.680
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's all a question of what, like what

1240
01:11:05.920 --> 01:11:09.000
<v Speaker 1>it's like the conundrum of you know, Satan in Paradise lost,

1241
01:11:09.079 --> 01:11:12.239
<v Speaker 1>right it is? Or Satan or the whole idea of

1242
01:11:12.319 --> 01:11:16.399
<v Speaker 1>the devil or something like that. Does the devil love

1243
01:11:17.560 --> 01:11:21.359
<v Speaker 1>the love the evil doers that he is brought over

1244
01:11:21.439 --> 01:11:24.720
<v Speaker 1>to his side? Or is he the ultimate enforcer of

1245
01:11:24.760 --> 01:11:28.520
<v Speaker 1>the divine? Is he there because he knows what evil is?

1246
01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:32.359
<v Speaker 1>The evil doer does the evil? The evil doer goes

1247
01:11:32.399 --> 01:11:36.600
<v Speaker 1>to hell and the devil punishes him for eternity. Isn't

1248
01:11:36.640 --> 01:11:42.079
<v Speaker 1>he serving ultimately the moral system of good by being

1249
01:11:42.640 --> 01:11:48.359
<v Speaker 1>by enforcing the evil? So it's like, is Jeffrey Epstein?

1250
01:11:48.399 --> 01:11:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Does Jeffrey Epstein hate these people? If you're right? Does

1251
01:11:51.720 --> 01:11:54.159
<v Speaker 1>he hate them because he knows he's evil and he

1252
01:11:54.239 --> 01:11:58.000
<v Speaker 1>knows their evil and he believes ultimately that they should

1253
01:11:58.079 --> 01:12:04.000
<v Speaker 1>all himself included, come to a horrible end? Or you know,

1254
01:12:04.279 --> 01:12:06.920
<v Speaker 1>was he Iago and evil was his good, and therefore

1255
01:12:06.960 --> 01:12:09.399
<v Speaker 1>he enjoyed being evil, and he didn't mind these other

1256
01:12:09.399 --> 01:12:10.199
<v Speaker 1>people being evil.

1257
01:12:10.439 --> 01:12:12.560
<v Speaker 3>I think we needed like a five thousand word essay

1258
01:12:12.600 --> 01:12:14.239
<v Speaker 3>and commentary on the Theodicy.

1259
01:12:14.960 --> 01:12:17.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I agree, I totally agree.

1260
01:12:18.119 --> 01:12:21.039
<v Speaker 1>We don't believe in the Odyssey here in Judaism.

1261
01:12:21.840 --> 01:12:25.159
<v Speaker 2>But unfortunately you do agree with five thousand word essays. Well,

1262
01:12:25.199 --> 01:12:28.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean the question mark we not.

1263
01:12:29.439 --> 01:12:31.479
<v Speaker 1>You say we may not believe in the Odyssey, but

1264
01:12:31.520 --> 01:12:34.960
<v Speaker 1>Theodos believes in us. Is that your point? Okay? But no,

1265
01:12:35.000 --> 01:12:39.119
<v Speaker 1>But I'm just it's an interesting question. Like that world.

1266
01:12:41.039 --> 01:12:47.439
<v Speaker 1>You know, it's like demonic types. Uh, you know, when

1267
01:12:47.520 --> 01:12:53.239
<v Speaker 1>he evokes these emails or receives these emails from people

1268
01:12:53.239 --> 01:12:57.199
<v Speaker 1>who seem relatively otherwise upstanding, who then we we we

1269
01:12:57.239 --> 01:13:03.439
<v Speaker 1>see in this gigantic dump, right, these absolutely disgusting emails

1270
01:13:03.479 --> 01:13:05.279
<v Speaker 1>back to them that we have no business seeing. We

1271
01:13:05.279 --> 01:13:08.560
<v Speaker 1>should never have seen any of this. It's an outrage

1272
01:13:08.920 --> 01:13:11.560
<v Speaker 1>that Congress passed this law and that Trump signed it.

1273
01:13:12.479 --> 01:13:17.359
<v Speaker 1>This is an exposure of private material that people themselves

1274
01:13:17.399 --> 01:13:20.119
<v Speaker 1>who are not criminals and never did anything criminal have No,

1275
01:13:20.600 --> 01:13:23.119
<v Speaker 1>it's not our right to see it. It's a terrible thing,

1276
01:13:23.199 --> 01:13:25.800
<v Speaker 1>and I think this was a real evil thing.

1277
01:13:25.920 --> 01:13:28.079
<v Speaker 2>Maybe they're super juicy that I'm really into them.

1278
01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:30.520
<v Speaker 1>That's what I'm saying. So nonetheless, they're there, so we're

1279
01:13:30.560 --> 01:13:33.239
<v Speaker 1>going to react to it. And it's like raises the

1280
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:39.119
<v Speaker 1>question like are is it when you're when you're in

1281
01:13:39.199 --> 01:13:42.119
<v Speaker 1>proximity to one of these kinds of like you're in

1282
01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:45.600
<v Speaker 1>or like the dark figure in your life. Do you

1283
01:13:45.680 --> 01:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>just let loose and write like repellent, disgusting things in

1284
01:13:50.720 --> 01:13:55.319
<v Speaker 1>emails because you get a chance to that's your truest self.

1285
01:13:55.960 --> 01:13:58.239
<v Speaker 1>Or do you kind of just get touched by some

1286
01:13:59.079 --> 01:14:03.720
<v Speaker 1>kind of like dark thing in yourself momentarily and then

1287
01:14:03.760 --> 01:14:08.760
<v Speaker 1>you write something about a woman's area smelling a certain

1288
01:14:08.800 --> 01:14:11.359
<v Speaker 1>way or something like that, or you write something about

1289
01:14:11.359 --> 01:14:14.359
<v Speaker 1>teenagers that you would never say never don't actually believe

1290
01:14:14.439 --> 01:14:16.199
<v Speaker 1>or whatever? What do you?

1291
01:14:16.239 --> 01:14:16.600
<v Speaker 2>What do you?

1292
01:14:17.199 --> 01:14:19.760
<v Speaker 1>What are we seeing in these emails? Is what I'm saying.

1293
01:14:20.159 --> 01:14:23.159
<v Speaker 1>Are we seeing these people exposing their truest natures? Or

1294
01:14:23.159 --> 01:14:26.359
<v Speaker 1>are we seeing them at the darkest at sort of

1295
01:14:26.399 --> 01:14:29.640
<v Speaker 1>these dark moments of their you know, like where they

1296
01:14:30.079 --> 01:14:32.960
<v Speaker 1>just let loose for a second, like a little they

1297
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:34.039
<v Speaker 1>let out a little gas.

1298
01:14:34.319 --> 01:14:36.840
<v Speaker 3>I think it's a little boat. I mean, I don't

1299
01:14:36.840 --> 01:14:39.600
<v Speaker 3>think it's binary, right, I mean, I think yeah, the

1300
01:14:40.199 --> 01:14:45.000
<v Speaker 3>I mean the we all have or have had friends

1301
01:14:45.039 --> 01:14:47.359
<v Speaker 3>who are on the sketchier side, and the way you

1302
01:14:47.399 --> 01:14:49.479
<v Speaker 3>talk to your sketchy friends is different than the way

1303
01:14:49.520 --> 01:14:52.359
<v Speaker 3>you talk to, you know, your more upstanding friends. You know,

1304
01:14:53.720 --> 01:14:57.520
<v Speaker 3>this is that on steroids, right, Like you hit a

1305
01:14:57.560 --> 01:15:00.680
<v Speaker 3>point of diminishing returns where your friends and ceases to

1306
01:15:00.680 --> 01:15:03.039
<v Speaker 3>be just sort of have a dark sense of humor

1307
01:15:03.319 --> 01:15:05.800
<v Speaker 3>or be you know, cut corners to being a total

1308
01:15:05.960 --> 01:15:08.079
<v Speaker 3>evils comebag, and at that point you shouldn't be your

1309
01:15:08.119 --> 01:15:11.199
<v Speaker 3>friend anymore. But I think about it in some ways,

1310
01:15:11.199 --> 01:15:13.760
<v Speaker 3>like with with Donald Trump. Right, So Donald Trump is

1311
01:15:13.800 --> 01:15:17.840
<v Speaker 3>not Jeffrey Epstein, but Donald Trump brings In order to

1312
01:15:17.880 --> 01:15:23.640
<v Speaker 3>communicate with Donald Trump, you have to debase yourself in

1313
01:15:23.760 --> 01:15:26.000
<v Speaker 3>so many different ways. First of all, just with the flattery,

1314
01:15:26.159 --> 01:15:31.399
<v Speaker 3>Like I find I'm I'm fine with complimenting people when

1315
01:15:31.399 --> 01:15:35.520
<v Speaker 3>I'm sincere. But the I find the act of complimenting

1316
01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:36.840
<v Speaker 3>people when I don't mean.

1317
01:15:36.680 --> 01:15:41.439
<v Speaker 2>It to be it's it's it. I gag at it.

1318
01:15:41.520 --> 01:15:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I find it.

1319
01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:44.800
<v Speaker 3>I find it like an assault on my integrity in

1320
01:15:44.840 --> 01:15:47.439
<v Speaker 3>a way that I feel just cheap and and authentic.

1321
01:15:48.439 --> 01:15:50.199
<v Speaker 3>But there are a lot of politicians who have just

1322
01:15:50.239 --> 01:15:51.760
<v Speaker 3>no compunction doing that, And there are a lot of

1323
01:15:51.800 --> 01:15:53.840
<v Speaker 3>people in business who think that's what you do in business,

1324
01:15:53.880 --> 01:15:56.239
<v Speaker 3>is you you you sing them a song to get

1325
01:15:56.239 --> 01:15:58.800
<v Speaker 3>the deal, and then just by the way, and then

1326
01:15:58.840 --> 01:16:02.239
<v Speaker 3>you talk crap about them afterwards. And so I understand that,

1327
01:16:02.279 --> 01:16:05.479
<v Speaker 3>like I have a lower tolerance for this stuff than

1328
01:16:05.520 --> 01:16:09.399
<v Speaker 3>a lot of otherwise decent people. But the problem is,

1329
01:16:09.399 --> 01:16:11.760
<v Speaker 3>you know, our friend, you've all liven, He's made this

1330
01:16:11.800 --> 01:16:14.399
<v Speaker 3>point many times, is that cynicism is hard to sustain.

1331
01:16:15.600 --> 01:16:23.119
<v Speaker 3>And eventually, if you find yourself in a transactional nature

1332
01:16:23.159 --> 01:16:25.000
<v Speaker 3>where you feel like you can just keep making moral

1333
01:16:25.000 --> 01:16:29.840
<v Speaker 3>compromises in order to like have accessor or get a

1334
01:16:29.920 --> 01:16:34.800
<v Speaker 3>job or whatever like that, eventually you convince yourself that

1335
01:16:35.119 --> 01:16:37.479
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't a lesser of two evils thing, It wasn't

1336
01:16:37.600 --> 01:16:40.720
<v Speaker 3>a moral compromise. It's just that you bend your moral

1337
01:16:40.760 --> 01:16:43.720
<v Speaker 3>yardstick to fit the object in front of you. And

1338
01:16:43.760 --> 01:16:45.319
<v Speaker 3>so I think a lot of people who hung out

1339
01:16:45.439 --> 01:16:50.560
<v Speaker 3>with Jeffrey Epstein, they may not have started as corrupted souls,

1340
01:16:50.800 --> 01:16:52.399
<v Speaker 3>but I think some of the people who spent more

1341
01:16:52.399 --> 01:16:55.840
<v Speaker 3>time than others got corrupted by it, or that brought

1342
01:16:55.840 --> 01:16:58.159
<v Speaker 3>out or the corrupted part of the passes of them.

1343
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:01.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's scratch a little itch that they have like you,

1344
01:17:01.760 --> 01:17:05.800
<v Speaker 2>if you're respectable nerdy Bill Gates or for that man

1345
01:17:05.840 --> 01:17:08.079
<v Speaker 2>or Larry Summers, that the idea that you've got this

1346
01:17:08.199 --> 01:17:10.640
<v Speaker 2>cool friend who does this stuff in this island and

1347
01:17:10.680 --> 01:17:13.760
<v Speaker 2>always seems to have these hot chicks. Even though it

1348
01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:16.119
<v Speaker 2>seems inconceivable to us that those guys couldn't do the

1349
01:17:16.119 --> 01:17:19.520
<v Speaker 2>same thing, they didn't feel they could. So the weird

1350
01:17:19.640 --> 01:17:22.840
<v Speaker 2>currying favor with him was interesting, the weird the flattery

1351
01:17:22.920 --> 01:17:26.159
<v Speaker 2>and the hey, the chummy locker room BONHAMI with him

1352
01:17:26.479 --> 01:17:31.159
<v Speaker 2>from people who really had no particular experience with that.

1353
01:17:31.279 --> 01:17:33.640
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I guarantee you Bill Gates was not on

1354
01:17:33.680 --> 01:17:38.800
<v Speaker 2>the lacrosse team, right, So it's like there's this this

1355
01:17:38.960 --> 01:17:42.199
<v Speaker 2>very kind of adolescent male stuff happening. And I think

1356
01:17:42.239 --> 01:17:46.119
<v Speaker 2>with him, with the Epstein, there was this contempt that

1357
01:17:46.159 --> 01:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>you get when you've operated yourself, and you've operated enough

1358
01:17:50.119 --> 01:17:52.800
<v Speaker 2>to be in the room of the most powerful people

1359
01:17:52.840 --> 01:17:55.520
<v Speaker 2>that were completely remote to you and that you are

1360
01:17:55.560 --> 01:17:58.319
<v Speaker 2>the outside of when you were teaching at Spencer's Teaching

1361
01:17:58.880 --> 01:18:09.199
<v Speaker 2>and that you realized that they're just they're just incredibly weak, appliable, vulnerable,

1362
01:18:10.359 --> 01:18:15.520
<v Speaker 2>desperately needy guys that I can push around, and I'm

1363
01:18:15.560 --> 01:18:16.079
<v Speaker 2>going to do it.

1364
01:18:16.359 --> 01:18:18.319
<v Speaker 1>So you go and new flatter Donald Trump. Right, Donald

1365
01:18:18.359 --> 01:18:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Trump is the president of United States. He is the

1366
01:18:19.760 --> 01:18:23.199
<v Speaker 1>most powerful man in the world, and he his favor

1367
01:18:23.359 --> 01:18:28.399
<v Speaker 1>on You can have enormous ramifications. Jeffrey Epstein in these

1368
01:18:28.880 --> 01:18:33.000
<v Speaker 1>emails and in this file is a convicted pedophile who

1369
01:18:33.279 --> 01:18:39.279
<v Speaker 1>has pled guilty to trafficking in sex with minors and

1370
01:18:39.479 --> 01:18:46.399
<v Speaker 1>is up is on parole, and it is these people

1371
01:18:46.439 --> 01:18:51.479
<v Speaker 1>didn't say I will be friends with a convicted pedophile?

1372
01:18:52.239 --> 01:18:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Are you emailing me? Go into a hole and disappear forever.

1373
01:18:59.000 --> 01:19:03.520
<v Speaker 1>You're evil, like there's no pedophilia is not excusable. You

1374
01:19:03.560 --> 01:19:06.239
<v Speaker 1>don't know. I agree, I agree, pay the fine and

1375
01:19:06.920 --> 01:19:07.680
<v Speaker 1>to drive again.

1376
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.119
<v Speaker 2>Already good, I have a good joke to get a

1377
01:19:10.119 --> 01:19:11.319
<v Speaker 2>sad Okay, I.

1378
01:19:11.279 --> 01:19:13.119
<v Speaker 3>Was just gonna will close on your joke just two seconds.

1379
01:19:13.319 --> 01:19:17.920
<v Speaker 3>It reminds me of the psychiatrist in The Sopranos who

1380
01:19:17.960 --> 01:19:23.279
<v Speaker 3>tells Carmela, I'm just I'm I'm I'm entertaining this conversation

1381
01:19:23.359 --> 01:19:26.560
<v Speaker 3>with you just so you can know that you can

1382
01:19:26.640 --> 01:19:31.199
<v Speaker 3>never say you weren't told, right, And so I a

1383
01:19:31.319 --> 01:19:36.920
<v Speaker 3>huge distinction between pre revelations of of Epstein and post revelations. Right,

1384
01:19:37.000 --> 01:19:39.399
<v Speaker 3>like one thing, Oh, this guy's a party animal, and

1385
01:19:39.439 --> 01:19:40.960
<v Speaker 3>it's another thing when he's been doing.

1386
01:19:40.760 --> 01:19:44.159
<v Speaker 2>A shocked shocked, like profoundly.

1387
01:19:43.680 --> 01:19:45.920
<v Speaker 3>Evil things and you still want to go to his island,

1388
01:19:45.960 --> 01:19:48.239
<v Speaker 3>then it's it's a it's a completely different thing.

1389
01:19:48.239 --> 01:19:48.840
<v Speaker 2>I agree with that.

1390
01:19:48.920 --> 01:19:52.119
<v Speaker 1>Okay, don't we need to make some recommendations before we go, but.

1391
01:19:52.159 --> 01:19:54.880
<v Speaker 2>We have we have a pedophile joke from rob oh

1392
01:19:54.960 --> 01:19:58.479
<v Speaker 2>pedophile choke. Yeah you want to hear it? Yeah, sure, yeah,

1393
01:19:58.520 --> 01:20:02.600
<v Speaker 2>you don't tell it. You want to hear Jock got

1394
01:20:02.720 --> 01:20:04.880
<v Speaker 2>cars speeding down the road. Cop pulls the car over.

1395
01:20:05.000 --> 01:20:08.359
<v Speaker 2>It's got two priests in it, crools to the window, says, uh,

1396
01:20:08.439 --> 01:20:10.199
<v Speaker 2>you guys are going pretty chose. Yeah, we're just we're

1397
01:20:10.199 --> 01:20:12.000
<v Speaker 2>on away somewhere, goes okay, well we just stop everybody.

1398
01:20:12.000 --> 01:20:14.960
<v Speaker 2>We're looking for two pedophiles and the priest look at

1399
01:20:14.960 --> 01:20:20.600
<v Speaker 2>each other and go okay, we'll do it now. It's terrible.

1400
01:20:20.720 --> 01:20:22.119
<v Speaker 2>I do not approve of that anyway.

1401
01:20:27.560 --> 01:20:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Okay, all right, So I feel like going from that

1402
01:20:30.800 --> 01:20:33.079
<v Speaker 1>to this is Okay, Joan and I would both like

1403
01:20:33.159 --> 01:20:37.640
<v Speaker 1>to recommend wonder Man on Disney Plus. Huh, yes, I've

1404
01:20:37.640 --> 01:20:39.119
<v Speaker 1>seen the whole thing. We haven't seen the whole thing.

1405
01:20:40.119 --> 01:20:42.119
<v Speaker 1>And here's what it's funny. It's a story about a

1406
01:20:42.159 --> 01:20:45.520
<v Speaker 1>superhero who wants to be an actor. He doesn't want

1407
01:20:45.560 --> 01:20:48.239
<v Speaker 1>to be a superhero. He wants to be like a

1408
01:20:48.359 --> 01:20:51.880
<v Speaker 1>guy who has two lines on American Horror Story. That's

1409
01:20:52.119 --> 01:20:56.039
<v Speaker 1>his goal in life is to be like a guy

1410
01:20:56.520 --> 01:20:59.800
<v Speaker 1>in you know, to be on to have a day

1411
01:20:59.800 --> 01:21:03.680
<v Speaker 1>part on a rob long sitcom. But he's actually a superhero.

1412
01:21:03.880 --> 01:21:07.039
<v Speaker 1>But no, no, no, no, no no. All he likes is

1413
01:21:07.239 --> 01:21:11.039
<v Speaker 1>movies and seeing Midnight Cowboy at an afternoon show at

1414
01:21:11.039 --> 01:21:13.560
<v Speaker 1>the Arrow, and that's all he wants to do.

1415
01:21:13.760 --> 01:21:15.760
<v Speaker 2>So it's you say, if you can save the line,

1416
01:21:15.760 --> 01:21:17.039
<v Speaker 2>then I'm all for it.

1417
01:21:17.680 --> 01:21:20.239
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, I'm just saying that's that is the funny gimmick

1418
01:21:20.319 --> 01:21:24.479
<v Speaker 1>of wonder Man is the superhero who wants to not be.

1419
01:21:24.399 --> 01:21:25.760
<v Speaker 2>A superst I gotta watch this.

1420
01:21:25.840 --> 01:21:27.960
<v Speaker 3>It's sort of a heady PG version of the Boys

1421
01:21:27.960 --> 01:21:30.359
<v Speaker 3>in some way right where they do that kind of blurring.

1422
01:21:30.439 --> 01:21:32.720
<v Speaker 3>But it's like, you know, I think it's it's really

1423
01:21:32.720 --> 01:21:33.680
<v Speaker 3>interesting yeah, I like it.

1424
01:21:33.800 --> 01:21:38.079
<v Speaker 2>I am watching the new mid Gray series that got

1425
01:21:38.079 --> 01:21:39.279
<v Speaker 2>a really nice review, and I think it was in

1426
01:21:39.319 --> 01:21:43.760
<v Speaker 2>the Wall Street Journal got a nice review, and it's

1427
01:21:44.359 --> 01:21:48.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm sort of enjoying it, but I prefer the older ones.

1428
01:21:49.960 --> 01:21:52.199
<v Speaker 2>He's the French detective at Paris, and the ones that

1429
01:21:52.239 --> 01:21:55.640
<v Speaker 2>are pure atmosphere is set in the thirties or the

1430
01:21:55.720 --> 01:22:00.640
<v Speaker 2>even the twenties. Thirties and fifties are great. And this

1431
01:22:00.720 --> 01:22:03.600
<v Speaker 2>is interesting, but it's not quite It doesn't quite have

1432
01:22:03.680 --> 01:22:07.640
<v Speaker 2>it's more of a just detective story. That's you know,

1433
01:22:07.640 --> 01:22:09.520
<v Speaker 2>he and his wife tried to have a kid, and

1434
01:22:09.520 --> 01:22:12.800
<v Speaker 2>his wife works, and it's like, you know, it's not

1435
01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:14.279
<v Speaker 2>as good as he used to be when he come

1436
01:22:14.319 --> 01:22:18.279
<v Speaker 2>home for lunch and his wife would make him an omelet, which.

1437
01:22:18.039 --> 01:22:19.880
<v Speaker 1>Is not what happened with Seminon, because he would come

1438
01:22:19.880 --> 01:22:21.920
<v Speaker 1>home for lunch and he would do three women, and

1439
01:22:21.920 --> 01:22:23.560
<v Speaker 1>then he would write a novel, and then he would

1440
01:22:23.560 --> 01:22:24.960
<v Speaker 1>go out for drinks at five.

1441
01:22:26.199 --> 01:22:27.359
<v Speaker 2>Look, everybody's got their own.

1442
01:22:27.600 --> 01:22:30.279
<v Speaker 1>I wrote two hundred novels and claimed to have had

1443
01:22:30.319 --> 01:22:33.000
<v Speaker 1>sex with twenty thousand women. So you do the math

1444
01:22:33.079 --> 01:22:36.079
<v Speaker 1>in terms of just how many days in your life? Well,

1445
01:22:36.239 --> 01:22:40.680
<v Speaker 1>Frank has sex and how many France? Right? Okay? I

1446
01:22:40.720 --> 01:22:43.720
<v Speaker 1>watched The Seven Dials on Netflix, which is an annaptation

1447
01:22:43.840 --> 01:22:47.119
<v Speaker 1>of an early Agatha Christie mystery which is set in

1448
01:22:47.119 --> 01:22:49.359
<v Speaker 1>the nineteen twenties, and it is very eye catching, but

1449
01:22:49.439 --> 01:22:54.439
<v Speaker 1>it reminded me of how boring a Christie is. I mean, basically,

1450
01:22:54.520 --> 01:22:58.520
<v Speaker 1>Agatha Christie's most popular writer practically who ever lived, wrote

1451
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<v Speaker 1>sixty six books, sold one hundred millions of copies. Those

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<v Speaker 1>books were short, they were sweet, you're in and out,

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<v Speaker 1>and like the mysteries aren't interesting, and she she made

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<v Speaker 1>like too interesting detective, but like, so it's.

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<v Speaker 2>Just it's the vicar did it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just a weird nostalgia play to watch any of

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<v Speaker 1>this because you're watching and then they solve the mystery

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<v Speaker 1>and it's like, well, it could only be one of

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<v Speaker 1>three people, so it's this one. It's like three cards,

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<v Speaker 1>Like it's like a it's like a three card Bondie gap,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. It's like, well it's one of the three cards.

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<v Speaker 1>So all right, we gotta go. Uh, everyone's gonna leave.

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<v Speaker 1>Have a great again, Okay, I.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, can we talk about uh murdered even song? Is

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<v Speaker 2>anybody watching that? No? Oh? I saw that. Is that

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<v Speaker 2>a thing, Yeah, it's a brick box or or something

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<v Speaker 2>like