Speaker 1: Anchor your protein surround with fiber and make sure that
Speaker 1: you have a good fat you know like applecado olive boil,
Speaker 1: things like that that are really beneficial to your microroups.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the Plant Based Diet podcast where we
Speaker 2: talk about all things plant based. I'm mister Garfin, the
Speaker 2: host of this show and founder of Alternative Food Network.
Speaker 2: Join me in my amazing array of guests who are
Speaker 2: a mix of healthcare professionals, industry executives, and people with
Speaker 2: an interesting story to tell about their plant based journey.
Speaker 2: Let us help you with your journey wherever you're at
Speaker 2: to learn the what, why, and how to eat plant based. Today,
Speaker 2: we're talking about the gut microbiome and the microbes that
Speaker 2: affect your immune system, your metabolism, your mood, and even
Speaker 2: your risk for chronic disease. And guess what what you
Speaker 2: eat can change that ecosystem. We're going to get a
Speaker 2: science primer on what makes our gut microbiome tic and
Speaker 2: why plant based foods are some of its most powerful
Speaker 2: fuel sources. I'm joined by a new sim, a Board
Speaker 2: certified functional health coach and microbiome educator. She specializes in
Speaker 2: helping people improve metabolism, gut health, and microbial resilience using
Speaker 2: evidence based nutrition and lifestyle strategies. She's the author of
Speaker 2: Flourish from Within, Feed Your Gut for Lifelong Health, and
Speaker 2: she runs the Gut Clarity Lab program to help build
Speaker 2: a resilient microbiome. You can find the link to the
Speaker 2: Gut Clarity Lab in the show notes, and we will
Speaker 2: be doing a giveaway of the book to one lucky
Speaker 2: newsletter subscriber. So if you're not yet a subscriber to
Speaker 2: Alternative Food Networks free monthly newsletter which offers new recipes, giveaways,
Speaker 2: and information on our latest podcasts all in one place,
Speaker 2: please go to alternativefodnetwork dot com and click the newsletter
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Speaker 2: Food Networks content on Instagram at Alternative Food Network and
Speaker 2: on Alternative Food Networks YouTube channel and LinkedIn page. As
Speaker 2: for today's episode, if you've ever wondered how fiber, plant diversity,
Speaker 2: and whole foods can transform your gut for the better,
Speaker 2: please stay tuned. Hello and new welcome to the show.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much as the pleasure to be here.
Speaker 2: I'm very excited to talk about the gut microbiome. So
Speaker 2: I'm going to ask you right off the bat, why
Speaker 2: should we care about the gut microbiome.
Speaker 1: Yes, that's such a great question. And when we talk
Speaker 1: about the gut microbiome in particular, we're talking about the
Speaker 1: ecosystem of microbes that live primarily in the large interestin,
Speaker 1: you know, along with all the genes that they carry
Speaker 1: and also the compounds that they produce. So I often
Speaker 1: describe it as an invisible organ. Seventy percent of your
Speaker 1: immune system is in you gut, ninety percent of serotonin
Speaker 1: is made in the God. There's so many things that
Speaker 1: are happening that the microbes are really helping us with,
Speaker 1: so it makes a lot of sense to feed them.
Speaker 1: So we're creating these opportunities for optimal help. We now
Speaker 1: know that the brain and the gut are connected. There's
Speaker 1: a bidirectionality and there's a brain gut microbiome loop. So
Speaker 1: anything that happens in the gut, the brain is perceiving
Speaker 1: it as good information or a threat. So when you're stressed,
Speaker 1: when you're highly stressed, it's not affecting just the God,
Speaker 1: it's affecting the brain. To our microbes. From an evolutionary standpoint.
Speaker 1: They have evolved with us. They digest things like plant compounds, fibers,
Speaker 1: polyphenols that we are not able to, and they do
Speaker 1: that breaking down of these compounds for us. They transform bilacids.
Speaker 1: They produce some incredible compounds called short chain fatty acids
Speaker 1: that are so important for us in so many different
Speaker 1: ways from immune health to gut bare your integrity and
Speaker 1: things like that. So I sort of call them our
Speaker 1: forever guests. There's never been a time when they've not
Speaker 1: been with us. I mean maybe they were, they came
Speaker 1: to us at birth or maybe even before, some researchers
Speaker 1: showing and they're going to be with us, So it
Speaker 1: just makes sense to take care of them. And their
Speaker 1: preferred fuel is fiber. That is what they digest. They
Speaker 1: break down and produce all of these wonderful compounds for us.
Speaker 1: So we are in this symbiotic partnership with these microbes
Speaker 1: and we give them a place to live and fuel
Speaker 1: that they love, and they help us by producing all
Speaker 1: of these metabolites that really in turn helps helps us.
Speaker 2: And you mentioned fiber is key, So is that why
Speaker 2: you believe in the benefits of plant based foods? Yes,
Speaker 2: I mean for the microbiome.
Speaker 1: Yes, we I do believe that a plant based or
Speaker 1: a plant forward diet is really important something that they
Speaker 1: perceive as fuel. So that's the reason becomes important. And
Speaker 1: if you really compare ourselves to traditional populations, even the
Speaker 1: modern traditional populations, the difference in the microbial pattern is
Speaker 1: very very clear. You know, they have a lot more diversity,
Speaker 1: meaning they're way more species than we do. And a
Speaker 1: lot of it could be attributed to the modern life
Speaker 1: and the kinds of foods that we eat.
Speaker 2: So what is it about plants that benefit gut hell?
Speaker 2: Is it the plants themselves, or is let's say someone
Speaker 2: who's on a plant forward diet, is it the fact
Speaker 2: that perhaps they're eating less meat.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. So from an evolutionary standpoint, our
Speaker 1: microbes are experts in carbohydrate ferm sacriletic fermentation. It's called
Speaker 1: you know, so when we eat let's say we have
Speaker 1: a bowl of lentils or something like that, or veggies,
Speaker 1: the fiber is not something that we are able to digest.
Speaker 1: We don't have the capacity to do that, so it
Speaker 1: goes directly to the colon and they're these microbes feast
Speaker 1: on it and they digest it for us, and then
Speaker 1: produce all of these incredible metabolites or compounds that in
Speaker 1: turn is helping us in so many different ways. So
Speaker 1: the functions of these microbes become really important, and that's
Speaker 1: based on the kind of foods that we feed them.
Speaker 1: So one way to look at it as there is
Speaker 1: I don't put this into a category of don't eat
Speaker 1: meat or eat you know, I think I tell my
Speaker 1: clients anchor your protein, whatever the protein is, is it
Speaker 1: plant or animal, but surround with fiber sources. The more
Speaker 1: diversity you have in your plant foods, the more diversity
Speaker 1: you have in your microbial population. And up until now,
Speaker 1: we really don't have a very clear idea of what
Speaker 1: unhealthy microbiome is. But what we do know is a
Speaker 1: healthy microbiome is a resilient microbion and a resilient microbiome
Speaker 1: is a microbiome that has a lot of diversity. That
Speaker 1: means they have different species and there's also evenness in
Speaker 1: the species because these microbes are not just it's not
Speaker 1: just about how many they are, but what are some
Speaker 1: of the functions that they are doing for us. So
Speaker 1: all of this is connected to plant diversity because think
Speaker 1: about it. When you think about plant based diversity, we
Speaker 1: have so many things like polyphenols, beta glue cans, you know,
Speaker 1: resistant start. All of these are parts of us fiber
Speaker 1: compounds that really feed these microbes.
Speaker 2: And just to make it crystal clear for people who
Speaker 2: are listening, when you're talking about plant based foods and diversity,
Speaker 2: you're really talking about whole food plant based. I mean,
Speaker 2: we're not talking about processed plan based foods.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's the reason I don't really go into vegan,
Speaker 1: omnivore all of that. I'm just saying plant based or
Speaker 1: plant forward really means that you're eating whole foods, vegetables, fruits, legumes,
Speaker 1: whole grains, foods that are rich in the resistance start,
Speaker 1: all of these foods that you're not able to digest,
Speaker 1: but it goes to the colon and the microbiome or
Speaker 1: the microdes do the work for you.
Speaker 2: And are there scientific studies that show the positive effects
Speaker 2: of a plant based diet or plant foods on the microbiome.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, there are several. In fact, when I was writing
Speaker 1: a book, I mean I spent about three years just researching.
Speaker 1: These studies are incredible. I mean, when human microbiome projects started.
Speaker 1: I think back in two thousand and seven eight we
Speaker 1: knew that fiber is important that it's amazing to see
Speaker 1: how many new studies have come out since then. And
Speaker 1: the one that comes to mind is the American Gun Project.
Speaker 1: You know, they really looked at people who were eating
Speaker 1: more than thirty plant compounds of foods or plant inputs
Speaker 1: per week compared to those who didn't, and they clearly
Speaker 1: saw that there was a higher microbial diversity in people
Speaker 1: who ate a lot of plant foods.
Speaker 2: Perhaps so we can include it in as a.
Speaker 1: Lath, Yes, that's different show notes. I know in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty one there was a Stanford study that really looked
Speaker 1: at fiber versus fermented foods, and they noticed that fermented
Speaker 1: foods really increased microbial diversity, but it also increased it
Speaker 1: decreased inflammation.
Speaker 2: So on the fermented food side of things is does
Speaker 2: that include from and to dairy as well or are
Speaker 2: we just talking about fermented plant foods. No.
Speaker 1: I think there's a lot of confusion around. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you don't mind me explaining that, I think fermented
Speaker 1: foods is sort of it's confusing for people between probiotics,
Speaker 1: prebiotics and fermented foods. Probiotics is basically anything that confers
Speaker 1: some kind of benefit to you as a host, and
Speaker 1: that could be like a supplement or foods like maybe
Speaker 1: yogurt that has live microbes in them. Prebiotics, on the
Speaker 1: other hand, of foods and fibers that actually help these
Speaker 1: microbes grow in the gut, so that could be polyphenols, fiber, anuline,
Speaker 1: things like that. And fermented foods are foods that really
Speaker 1: break down the food in such a way that our
Speaker 1: bodies e could have digested better, so you're each decreases.
Speaker 1: You produce things like lactic acid, acidic acid, things like that,
Speaker 1: and fermative foods benefit you in a different way. Some
Speaker 1: fermative foods actually also have life microbes in them, so
Speaker 1: that's the difference. So probiotics are microbes themselves, pre biotics
Speaker 1: are the foods that feed the microbes, and fermative fruits
Speaker 1: are whole foods that may contain microbes but definitely really
Speaker 1: contain fermentation by products. So that would be how I
Speaker 1: would look at it.
Speaker 2: Okay, so all important for the gap microbio.
Speaker 1: Exactly what yogurt do I buy? Don't be fooled by
Speaker 1: the marketing. Some of them look absolutely beautiful, and I mean,
Speaker 1: I know I spent so much time on this, but
Speaker 1: I'm still attracted to that shiny object. Right, this looks
Speaker 1: so pretty. Look at that glass spot. That's not as
Speaker 1: important as looking at the label and saying, does this
Speaker 1: really have life my groups? Does it have my groups
Speaker 1: that have been studied? You know, let's say you look
Speaker 1: at a yogurt that has BB lactis twelve or lato
Speaker 1: bisillis uteri, things like that that have been really studied,
Speaker 1: then you know that you can't go wrong with it.
Speaker 1: You can take that and hope that it confers some
Speaker 1: kind of benefit for you as the host. Your listeners
Speaker 1: could be entirely plant based, you know, vegan, or they
Speaker 1: could they may be including dairy. Some people are very
Speaker 1: very sensitive to dairy because they're not able to digest
Speaker 1: the caseine or the lactose in it. But yogurt seems
Speaker 1: to be a little bit more easy to digest for
Speaker 1: most people. And if that is not your cup of tea,
Speaker 1: then there's always so yogurt, which as also confers a
Speaker 1: lot of benefits to you and so has all of
Speaker 1: the essential immune acids, and it's a great protein for
Speaker 1: someone who's entirely plant based.
Speaker 2: And some examples of plant fermented foods would be.
Speaker 1: What well I personally, I had sauerkraut every day, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean just it's part of the when I look
Speaker 1: at it as there, I don't look at my food
Speaker 1: as Okay, I'm making this recipe. I'm looking at it
Speaker 1: in a very formatted way. I'm looking at watches it
Speaker 1: that my microbio really wants every single day. It wants diversity.
Speaker 1: So I first anchor the protein, you know, and for
Speaker 1: me the protein could be tofood tempe at amami or
Speaker 1: maybe some lentils whatever, you know that that particular day,
Speaker 1: and then I surround with several kinds of greens, chrucipherous veggies, broccoli.
Speaker 1: You know, if I did broccoli from Whole Foods one day,
Speaker 1: am I do Chinese broccoli another day? Or am I
Speaker 1: do broccoli sprouts? Just changing it up a little bit,
Speaker 1: because none of us really have the time to sit
Speaker 1: and just carve out a recipe every single day. But
Speaker 1: if you have a formatted version of beating, then you
Speaker 1: don't need a bunch of food rules. I think that's
Speaker 1: exhausting if you're trying to trying to find like different
Speaker 1: food rules. So anchor your protein surround with fiber and
Speaker 1: make sure that you have a good fat, you know,
Speaker 1: like apvocado, olive oil, things like that that are really
Speaker 1: beneficial to your microups. A lot of studies are showing
Speaker 1: that they do much better with these kind of fats
Speaker 1: versus saturated fat comes from red meat.
Speaker 2: And is this the type of thing that you talk
Speaker 2: about in your book. I know you have a book, yeah,
Speaker 2: which we are going to be able to give away
Speaker 2: to our newsletter subscribers. It's called Flourish from Within, Feed
Speaker 2: your Gut for Lifelong Health. Can you tell us a
Speaker 2: little bit about what's in that book.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mainly wrote it because my clients were saying,
Speaker 1: I need a place where I can get all the
Speaker 1: information about the microbiome, maybe have a clearer roadmap of
Speaker 1: how I should eat and some recipes to support it.
Speaker 1: So I took that very very seriously and I put
Speaker 1: it all together. The first ten chapters are really under
Speaker 1: for you to understand about the microbirement, very simple labors
Speaker 1: in terms. The second section is what I call the
Speaker 1: Flourished Diet. It's based on the diets that have been
Speaker 1: studied and really well studied, you know, like the Mediterranean
Speaker 1: diet or the Mind diet and things like that, and
Speaker 1: all of them are one thing that they say. They say,
Speaker 1: increase fiber, increase your plant compounds, and decrease saturated fat,
Speaker 1: decrease sodium. These are commonalities between all of these different diets.
Speaker 1: So that's the reason I came up with anchor your
Speaker 1: proteins surround with fiber, because so regardless of what kind
Speaker 1: of diet you follow, I've wanted it to work for you,
Speaker 1: you know, and regardless of which culture you come from,
Speaker 1: we all have fibrous foods in every culture beat Mexican
Speaker 1: or Indian or Italian. So the book has recipes from
Speaker 1: different cultures, different travels that I've done over the over
Speaker 1: the years, and the recipes that I love and that
Speaker 1: are high in fiber, low in saturated fact things that
Speaker 1: really really do help the microbiome be healthy, because we
Speaker 1: want diversity in the microbiome, and that way when we
Speaker 1: do travel overseas is something our microbiome is resilient enough
Speaker 1: to be able to withstand those changes. Or we take
Speaker 1: a round of antibiotics, we're not bombarded with problems because
Speaker 1: of that, because we have a resilient microbiome.
Speaker 2: Okay, I do have a couple of questions on what
Speaker 2: you just said. But since you just mentioned into antibiotics,
Speaker 2: any tips for those on antibiotics.
Speaker 1: The interesting thing to note is microbs themselves and the
Speaker 1: microbiome very valuable. You know, you could you could go
Speaker 1: on antibiotics and then within a you know, within a
Speaker 1: few weeks if you start feeding them the right kinds
Speaker 1: of food, make sure you sleep is good, you stress
Speaker 1: is low. Your microbes recover. You know, your microbiome recovers.
Speaker 1: So that's that's good news for us. That's fantastic. So
Speaker 1: we can go through something like a stressful situation or
Speaker 1: out taking like antibiotics and still recover from it. So
Speaker 1: we don't need to do anything beyond that. And of
Speaker 1: course there are probiotics that you can take. The one
Speaker 1: thing about probiotics is it's it's very highly individualized. They
Speaker 1: may or may not stick within you as a live microbe,
Speaker 1: so some are just transient. When they when you're taking something,
Speaker 1: they may be benefit to you, but when you stop
Speaker 1: taking it, maybe not. So I always see fee do
Speaker 1: microbes it's cheaper and it's long term, rather than taking
Speaker 1: a fancy supplement. The one supplement which it's not a
Speaker 1: provotic but in east A sacrifices Bullardi. I almost always
Speaker 1: never travel without it because you don't know when you're
Speaker 1: going to be hit with traveler's diarrhea. So this is
Speaker 1: an easy add into your your trap.
Speaker 2: What did you say it is called?
Speaker 1: It's called sacromices Bullardi. I'll add it to the show
Speaker 1: notes if you Okay, Yes, And you know I had
Speaker 1: a friend who went in on Morocco and she said,
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, that supplement saved me. And I'm not
Speaker 1: a big supplement person. I believe food first, diet and lifestyle,
Speaker 1: but that's one that I carry with me for me personally.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Okay, that sounds like a good tip. Okay, So again
Speaker 2: for someone with an an antibiotics, sticking to this road
Speaker 2: map of where you have your anchor protein and an
Speaker 2: array of fibrous foods, that should do the trick.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Does it make a difference whether one eats a vegetable raw,
Speaker 2: let's say, in a salad versus cooked vegetables warmed up vegetables.
Speaker 1: That's a great question. After from a perspective of microbes.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any study that's come out that specifically
Speaker 1: mentions that from a micronutrient perspective, you don't ever want
Speaker 1: to overcook your veggies because you're going to lose a
Speaker 1: lot of that in the water, right, So I say
Speaker 1: just mix it up. You know, not very clear about
Speaker 1: the answer. Does it just make sense to say I'll
Speaker 1: have a little bit of raw veggies. I mean, from
Speaker 1: a blood sugar perspective, it really makes sense to have
Speaker 1: a huge salad first, then add, for example, even things
Speaker 1: like beans and lentils can of your sugar if you're
Speaker 1: not used to it. So if you always start with
Speaker 1: some a great big salad and then have some good
Speaker 1: protein and then add these things like beings and lentils
Speaker 1: that perhaps you're not used to but you want to
Speaker 1: give it a try, then your blocky growth tends to
Speaker 1: be a little bit more even as well.
Speaker 2: Do you have an opinion on commercial lab test kits
Speaker 2: for the microbiome?
Speaker 1: Yes, I think it's fascinating. It's definitely not a diagnostic test.
Speaker 1: It's not going to tell you like a let's say
Speaker 1: a blood panel. You know, it's it's not going to
Speaker 1: give you information like that. But what I think is
Speaker 1: great is the new technology that is available today. It's
Speaker 1: whole genome sequencing. You can actually look at your fecal
Speaker 1: sample and it's a pretty good representation of your just
Speaker 1: still callon what kind of microops are and you just
Speaker 1: sto colon. So looking at that fecal sample will give
Speaker 1: you a pretty good idea of who's there. So that's
Speaker 1: it's from a curiosity perspective. I think it's fantastic, but
Speaker 1: it's very iterative. You know, because your microbe microbiome is malleable,
Speaker 1: things keep changing. So I would say if you do
Speaker 1: want to get a test done, make sure it's whole
Speaker 1: genome sequencing, because then you're looking at the DNA of
Speaker 1: all of those microbes that are within you. And I
Speaker 1: feel like when you test, you need to kind of
Speaker 1: follow through and why did you test? If you're testing
Speaker 1: just for just information, it's fine, but it's a data point.
Speaker 1: What are you going to do if you find out
Speaker 1: that you have low diversity, or you don't have the
Speaker 1: keystone species, or maybe your protein fermentation is not serving you,
Speaker 1: then we can make those changes. So it's a good starting.
Speaker 2: Point, but it is a moment in time.
Speaker 1: It really depends on who's doing the test right. If
Speaker 1: you are say you've been on antibiotics, or you have
Speaker 1: our life that is highly highly stressed. You nervous system
Speaker 1: is really a little bit jittery, you're not sleeping well.
Speaker 1: Sleep is an issue. There's not a lot of plant
Speaker 1: based diversity in your diet. Then I don't think we
Speaker 1: even need a test. We can start with basics, we
Speaker 1: build a foundation, and then when you build that foundation,
Speaker 1: then the curiosity is, Okay, I've done all this work.
Speaker 1: Do I need a test to see where I am? Yes,
Speaker 1: it can totally hold that space for you. But then
Speaker 1: on the other end of the thing is if you
Speaker 1: have been doing all of this, you've been eating really
Speaker 1: well and doing all the things right for your microbio
Speaker 1: and you're just curious, like, giving all of this, I'm
Speaker 1: wondering where my microbes are. I think it's great to
Speaker 1: just get a starting point on that.
Speaker 2: So how did our genetics factor in here?
Speaker 1: What's good? What I can control is what I do
Speaker 1: on top of the genetics, the epigenetics and the nutri genomics.
Speaker 1: You know, the nutrition that I put into my body.
Speaker 1: How do I take care of my stress, how do
Speaker 1: I sleep? All of that really matters so much so
Speaker 1: genes are such a small part of it, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean anything you speak about today, like cancer, quadi
Speaker 1: vascular issues, I think diet and lifestyle play a huge role.
Speaker 1: And it's the same thing with microws. You know, maybe
Speaker 1: your starting point what you inherited from your mom and
Speaker 1: when Yeah, that's it. That's the family hairloom that's passed
Speaker 1: on from generations. Right. And let's say that wasn't the
Speaker 1: best starting point. Maybe you were a c section baby,
Speaker 1: or maybe you were not breastfed. But that's not the
Speaker 1: end of the story. You know, there are so many
Speaker 1: things that we can do today. I think it becomes
Speaker 1: the most important thing for us is treating it as
Speaker 1: a family heirloom, feeding and teaching our children how to
Speaker 1: eat right for your forever guests.
Speaker 2: Well that that seems like a great way to end
Speaker 2: the episode. If someone wants to get in touch with you,
Speaker 2: where is the best place to do that?
Speaker 1: Well Instagram Nine Arms of Wellness. My website is also
Speaker 1: nine Arms of Wellness dot com. And the book is
Speaker 1: another way to get to know what I do. I
Speaker 1: stuff people with a got test because people are curious,
Speaker 1: you know, but always remember that it's not the end
Speaker 1: of anything, it's the starting point. And then I get
Speaker 1: them a protocol to support your not just your gut health,
Speaker 1: but the immune health, ther hormonal health. Everything is connected
Speaker 1: because it's all about systems biology. You know. We can't
Speaker 1: really look at this and separate. Thanks me to connect
Speaker 1: the dots, all right.
Speaker 2: Well, this has been a very informative episode. I hope
Speaker 2: that people learn something about how to take care of
Speaker 2: their got microbiome. And thank you very very much for
Speaker 2: your time today.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much as their dis pleasure.
Speaker 2: I hope you found this helpful. Please share, rate, leave
Speaker 2: a review, and follow Plant Based Diet on your favorite
Speaker 2: podcast listening platform. You can find us on YouTube and
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Speaker 2: newsletter that includes plant based recipes, links to our latest episodes,
Speaker 2: and the occasional giveaway. You can subscribe for free by
Speaker 2: going to our website at Alternativefoodnetwork dot com and click
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Speaker 2: All content provided or opinions expressed in this podcast or
Speaker 2: for informational purposes only, and are not a substitute for
Speaker 2: professional medical advice. Please seek advice from your doctor or
Speaker 2: other qualified healthcare practitioner.