Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Backflips and Nerds, the baseball podcast
Speaker 1: with the British Twist. It's John here and I'm again
Speaker 1: joined by my great mate Russell. How are you today, mate?
Speaker 1: I'm doing good.
Speaker 2: I'm doing good.
Speaker 3: It's another very interesting interviewee that we have in line
Speaker 3: for you all, and I'm really looking forward to this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a good one. This guy is gonna definitely
Speaker 1: bring the energy. Our guest today has pitched over one
Speaker 1: hundred Big League games across six seasons with six different
Speaker 1: MLB clubs, and also made almost two hundred appearances in
Speaker 1: Japan's NPB across three seasons with the copp and the Marines.
Speaker 1: He's also the co host of the excellent Brushback podcast
Speaker 1: and the author of a recent book collecting his approach
Speaker 1: to the game of baseball and to life, Nine Innings
Speaker 1: to Living Your Best Life. He's also known as the
Speaker 1: Happiest Man in Baseball Powered by Smiles. Welcome, Jay Jackson.
Speaker 2: How are you mate? I'm creating well. How are you
Speaker 2: appreciate the great introduction? For sure? That was awesome. But
Speaker 2: I'm doing well, doing well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, of course, I mean you really are. Let's
Speaker 1: start there, Jay, Normally we start these conversations at the
Speaker 1: beginning of a baseball career, but it feels appropriate to
Speaker 1: start with where you are right now, and that's a
Speaker 1: published author and a guy who's been touring the States
Speaker 1: doing motivational talks in schools and in colleges. So tell
Speaker 1: us about the book, tell us about why you wrote it,
Speaker 1: and what it says about you as a ballplayer and
Speaker 1: as a person, because it feels like a lot of
Speaker 1: the essence of Jay Jackson is and the lessons that
Speaker 1: you've learned through life and that you share across your
Speaker 1: social media are right there in print now.
Speaker 2: No, for sure, it's definitely words to live by, my
Speaker 2: words that I personally live by. I actually reread it
Speaker 2: quite a bit and read other things like it a
Speaker 2: bit just to kind of like, no matter what stage
Speaker 2: of life I'm at, so like right now, I'm just
Speaker 2: kind of reading through it again just to like check
Speaker 2: some boxes and make sure I'm on the path that
Speaker 2: I truly need to be on as well. But the
Speaker 2: book came about kind of funny, Like I didn't think
Speaker 2: I was going to play last year, even though I
Speaker 2: ended up getting a major league deal. I didn't think
Speaker 2: I was going to play, and so I talked to
Speaker 2: a guy who I was going to have bet my
Speaker 2: mentor for like life after Baseball, and he talked to
Speaker 2: me for a couple of minutes and was like, hey,
Speaker 2: like you should write a book, and I was like, well,
Speaker 2: I don't know the process to writing a book. And
Speaker 2: then he put me in touch with a publisher and
Speaker 2: an editor, and my editor did a great job getting
Speaker 2: my book out and helping me fulfill my dream of
Speaker 2: doing that since you know, I was kind of doing
Speaker 2: it and living the book as I was writing it
Speaker 2: because of the simple fact that I was going through
Speaker 2: some injuries and going through some things with the team
Speaker 2: and kind of having the season that I didn't want
Speaker 2: to have. So other people getting getting the book or
Speaker 2: getting a lot of me and a lot of my
Speaker 2: struggles that I had last year and a lot of
Speaker 2: my in depth feelings about how my life was going
Speaker 2: at the time, trying to make sure I was staying
Speaker 2: positive through some kind of really negative situations but just
Speaker 2: taking the best approach I can and enjoying the moments
Speaker 2: I had when I could. And so it's just like
Speaker 2: it just came about like just wanting to keep my
Speaker 2: word to the publisher after I told him I was
Speaker 2: going to do it. I got signed to a major
Speaker 2: league deal after so I was like, hey, you know what,
Speaker 2: Like I always tell people, I'm going to be a
Speaker 2: man of my word, and so I was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm going to do the book. I'm going to do
Speaker 2: it whenever I have time. And then I mean, I
Speaker 2: guess I got lucky and had the injury, and so
Speaker 2: I had more time to finish the book and finish
Speaker 2: it in a more or more rapid pace. But it
Speaker 2: just came out and came to be like I got
Speaker 2: to lift through the book and got to put some
Speaker 2: of my principles in my life lessons and kind of
Speaker 2: like what my life was going through in the book
Speaker 2: as well. So it was it was a great time
Speaker 2: for me, honestly.
Speaker 1: And what changed in the book based on your circumstances,
Speaker 1: because we'll get into your career a little bit later
Speaker 1: on in the conversation, but it is, as I said
Speaker 1: in the start, it's it's been quite secureus as these
Speaker 1: things go. But last year was an interesting one for you.
Speaker 1: You started the year on a real high. It was
Speaker 1: the first time that you'd made a major league gross
Speaker 1: to straight out of spring training, and you know they
Speaker 1: didn't go probably as you'd hope. So do you think
Speaker 1: that this ended up being a different book or is
Speaker 1: it still essence to you coming back to your your
Speaker 1: center and the things that have kept you going as
Speaker 1: you've as you've come through all of the challenges that
Speaker 1: you have through your career.
Speaker 2: I think it. I don't think it would have been different.
Speaker 2: I think it's actually better, honestly because of the things
Speaker 2: I was going through, because like I said, it wasn't
Speaker 2: the year I wanted to go through. But also come
Speaker 2: to find out, I was playing through some injuries at
Speaker 2: the same time. I ended up having to give a
Speaker 2: PRP injection in my left knee and in my right shoulder.
Speaker 2: So it kind of shows you kind of what I
Speaker 2: was dealing with and trying to play at that level
Speaker 2: with those injuries and not been out there one hundred
Speaker 2: percent or even at ninety percent really and trying to
Speaker 2: get the best hitters in the world out. I mean,
Speaker 2: it's going to going to go how it was, And
Speaker 2: for a little bit there right I was having some success,
Speaker 2: you know, I was having some good innings, but it
Speaker 2: was just as the season war on and as the
Speaker 2: innings piled up, like my knee and my shoulder just
Speaker 2: couldn't take it anymore, and so it just ended up
Speaker 2: being you know, I was just trying to get through it,
Speaker 2: and it just like I said, it's tough. It's tough
Speaker 2: to get out in the big leagues when you're not
Speaker 2: at full strength. Ended up you know, not being the
Speaker 2: year I wanted to, but it is what it is.
Speaker 2: So it's just you know, the book is me going
Speaker 2: through that and making sure that I was keeping a
Speaker 2: positive mindset through me knowing that I was pitching not
Speaker 2: at the best level and going through these injuries and
Speaker 2: trying to make the best situation because honestly, at the time,
Speaker 2: I felt like the team needed my help because we
Speaker 2: had some other injuries in the bullpen, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was trying to just cover and be there and
Speaker 2: be the best teammate I could, but ended up not
Speaker 2: being in the best situation of the best efforts for me.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting what you're saying about, you know, struggling
Speaker 1: through injuries and I it's a conversation that you hear
Speaker 1: a lot of or his my wife's just popping in
Speaker 1: the background. It's It's a conversation that you hear a
Speaker 1: lot of guys in baseball have about their career, about
Speaker 1: how you stress your injuries, particularly about where you are
Speaker 1: in your career. Right, So, you being in your situation,
Speaker 1: you you over the last three or four years have
Speaker 1: established yourself as a big leaguer, but still you're on
Speaker 1: the margins, on the bubble of those rosters are sort
Speaker 1: of middle inning transitioning to lightening relievers, and so being
Speaker 1: open and honest about your injuries is always a risk
Speaker 1: for you right in those situations. This is this is
Speaker 1: something that loads of big leagues talk about after they've retired,
Speaker 1: that being straightforward about how injured you are is always
Speaker 1: a risk when you're in a big league clubhouse, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, for sure, especially now it's more you know,
Speaker 2: guys do it. I mean, I'm from the older school
Speaker 2: where we never told about our injuries and that we
Speaker 2: kind of just played through everything. Now, guys, you know,
Speaker 2: they tell you to go to the trainer and go
Speaker 2: in there and get checked up as much as you
Speaker 2: can to make sure you stay on the field and
Speaker 2: stay healthy. And I feel like it's it leaves Like
Speaker 2: you know, I feel like, if you say it all
Speaker 2: the time and you feel like you're injured all the time,
Speaker 2: you're mentally you're telling yourself that you're always hurting, like
Speaker 2: instead of just playing through certain things. So I try
Speaker 2: to just like play through as much as I can
Speaker 2: and try to just do the best I can with
Speaker 2: what I have, until you know, once my performance starts suffering,
Speaker 2: I'm like, Okay, well, obviously there's something wrong, because I
Speaker 2: mean last year, honestly, if you know, you look at
Speaker 2: it was like my worst year in the big leagues ever.
Speaker 2: But also I was taking account of a lot of things,
Speaker 2: like if I look at just like the first innings,
Speaker 2: I would pitch like I normally had really good first
Speaker 2: innings and then I would go in. Then my second
Speaker 2: innings would suffer sometimes, and I think that was just
Speaker 2: because of the injuries, because I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: my knee and I would get a little stiffer, and
Speaker 2: like my shoulder would just become heavy, like it just
Speaker 2: didn't go as well as you know, I wanted to
Speaker 2: be a multi inning guy at the time. You know,
Speaker 2: if I was probably one ending guy, I think I
Speaker 2: probably would have been all right. But I think being
Speaker 2: a multi ding guy. Last year kind of it caught
Speaker 2: up to me a little bit, and I mean that
Speaker 2: was just my role too, So it is what it is,
Speaker 2: and you know, that's just what you know, we used
Speaker 2: to do. Even though I was on a guaranteed deal
Speaker 2: last year, I think I felt like I had to
Speaker 2: prove why I had the deal to improved that the
Speaker 2: year before with the Blue Jays wasn't a fluke, even
Speaker 2: though the year with the Blue Jays honestly was just
Speaker 2: kind of how I've pitched my whole career. And like
Speaker 2: I said, if you kind of look at the numbers
Speaker 2: last year, I feel like the first innings like I
Speaker 2: kind of did well and then I would just kind
Speaker 2: of let let like the second thing just kind of
Speaker 2: snowball sometimes. And it was just I was the guy
Speaker 2: who had to kind of wear it sometimes too. So
Speaker 2: I mean that just shows you how good our bullpen was.
Speaker 2: Honestly that as well. But you know, I mean that
Speaker 2: was just the role I was in, so one time
Speaker 2: you lose them. I mean back in the day, I
Speaker 2: was the closer in a set of guy. So it happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I want to sort of talk about, you know,
Speaker 1: the sort of the Jay Jackson Extended Universe. We've got
Speaker 1: the book and we've got smile, which is not only
Speaker 1: how you you know an act, it's it's the way
Speaker 1: you are as a person, It's the way you live.
Speaker 1: It's it's also your mantra, which is start making intentional
Speaker 1: life efforts. Where did where did that, as your the
Speaker 1: sort of core of what you're about come from. When
Speaker 1: did you start being the smiley guy in the clubhouse?
Speaker 1: When did you start making intentional life efforts? As you
Speaker 1: put it, so say, well.
Speaker 2: I think that, honestly, that point started just I just
Speaker 2: one day, I just asked the man upstairs. I was
Speaker 2: just like, hey, it's baseball what I'm supposed to do.
Speaker 2: And if it is, you know, I'm never going to
Speaker 2: take the game for granted again. I'm just gonna, you know,
Speaker 2: honestly be who I need to be and be happy
Speaker 2: that I'm out there every day and kind of try
Speaker 2: to make it the best situation possible no matter where
Speaker 2: I'm at, as long as I'm out here and if
Speaker 2: this is what I'm supposed to do, and realistically, like
Speaker 2: the next day I got a phone call from my
Speaker 2: agent for me to have a job. It was like Okay, like,
Speaker 2: I guess I'm supposed to play baseball and I'm going
Speaker 2: to enjoy it. And then from there I still felt
Speaker 2: like because before then I kind of was trying to
Speaker 2: be like everybody else. I was trying to fit the
Speaker 2: act of you know, this is what the typical baseball
Speaker 2: player is, this is what success kind of looks like,
Speaker 2: instead of being myself. And then I got the job,
Speaker 2: and then I started enjoying baseball a little bit more
Speaker 2: and realizing like, hey, like this is who I am.
Speaker 2: This is when I played my best. And then it
Speaker 2: really kind of took off when I went to Japan.
Speaker 2: And then in Japan it kind of just became like hey,
Speaker 2: like honestly, every time I got three outs, I was
Speaker 2: just so like, hey, like, I'm happy that I got
Speaker 2: three outs, because especially I was, like I said, I
Speaker 2: was a setup guy at the point in time, and
Speaker 2: so like me being in those big situations and getting
Speaker 2: three outs, I was like, you know what, like, I'm
Speaker 2: so thankful that I got three outs, and that kind
Speaker 2: of just became who I was, Like I would just
Speaker 2: smile working off the field, and then I got to
Speaker 2: be known as Smiley Jackson, and then Smiley j and
Speaker 2: then it just kind of I was like, you know what,
Speaker 2: like I do pitch better when I'm happy and I'm
Speaker 2: like in a place of gratitude. And so when I
Speaker 2: ended up coming back to America and coming back to
Speaker 2: the States, I just kind of kept that same mentality
Speaker 2: no matter kind of what was going on. And you know,
Speaker 2: baseball's kind of shifting a way away from kind of
Speaker 2: the old school and coming into the new day and
Speaker 2: age at that point in time. So it just kind
Speaker 2: of was a nice little transition like I got to
Speaker 2: go away for a little bit and come back and like,
Speaker 2: you know, have a new take, but have you know,
Speaker 2: be the same old person and just you know, just
Speaker 2: enjoy the second half of my career.
Speaker 3: I guess I would say, how did that, Like, how's
Speaker 3: that different from maybe like your first few years, like
Speaker 3: in Pro Bowl, Because obviously with that seventeen year experience,
Speaker 3: you're talking about things on the lane of half of
Speaker 3: your career.
Speaker 2: What would like Jay.
Speaker 3: Jackson right now be telling Jay Jackson from that it's
Speaker 3: like the eighteen year old or the twenty year old
Speaker 3: coming into baseball.
Speaker 2: I would have told him to not stress everything so much,
Speaker 2: don't try to be perfect, like that was kind of
Speaker 2: what it was. I was just I would tell them, just,
Speaker 2: you know, enjoy those moments, like there's gonna be times
Speaker 2: that you know, you know that you're gonna want to
Speaker 2: go do certain things, and you need to enjoy the
Speaker 2: moments that you have out there with the guys too.
Speaker 2: And I wouldn't change a lot of the things I
Speaker 2: did or earlier in my career. I would say, do
Speaker 2: the same things, but enjoy it more and enjoy where
Speaker 2: I was at more and enjoy the present moments that
Speaker 2: I was at there instead of like stressing that oh God,
Speaker 2: like if I throw this pitch and you know, I
Speaker 2: have a bad outing, I'm gonna get sent down and
Speaker 2: blah blah blah. Like it's just, you know, enjoy that
Speaker 2: present moment that I'm there, and be grateful for what
Speaker 2: I have. Even though you know, like I said, it
Speaker 2: was different back then too. Guys are making a lot
Speaker 2: more money in the miners than we were back then.
Speaker 2: Like back in when I was playing, you know, we
Speaker 2: were making you know, one thousand dollars a month, and
Speaker 2: that was before taxes, and we had to sometimes pay
Speaker 2: for our own housing and our own food and all
Speaker 2: these things, and so I mean it was a little
Speaker 2: bit more of a stressful situation back then too, But
Speaker 2: I would say, for sure, enjoy that moment that I had.
Speaker 2: Just be grateful for those moments because I mean the
Speaker 2: people around me that truly were around me and the
Speaker 2: friends that I still have, you know, they were always
Speaker 2: going to be there supporting me. Like in the family
Speaker 2: that I have, they were always going to be there
Speaker 2: supporting me no matter what. So you know, it was
Speaker 2: just making sure that I would enjoy the game a
Speaker 2: lot sooner than I actually did, and being grateful for
Speaker 2: the moments I had a lot sooner than I did,
Speaker 2: because I mean, even my first half of my career,
Speaker 2: I had a lot of success. I just didn't translate
Speaker 2: that success, you know, probably the way I should have.
Speaker 2: I don't think, you know, God wanted me to have
Speaker 2: more success because I didn't think I was ready for
Speaker 2: it at that time. Well you know, I think I
Speaker 2: probably would have done something stupid and you know, trying
Speaker 2: to take advantage of it instead of you know, getting
Speaker 2: where I got to and being able to, you know,
Speaker 2: honestly be grateful and be in that moment of the
Speaker 2: success that I had when I did have it.
Speaker 1: It's just touching on the start of your career, right
Speaker 1: it is. It is extraordinary, particularly knowing that you've been
Speaker 1: a fixture in big league bullpens for the last few years,
Speaker 1: and you had a really successful period in Japan were
Speaker 1: you're in the miners for seven years before you made
Speaker 1: your big league debut, and that, in and of itself,
Speaker 1: is is sort of a a lesson in resilience, is
Speaker 1: it not? Because there aren't many guys who hang around
Speaker 1: for seven years and you were you did everything right.
Speaker 1: Some years you were some years you were a starter,
Speaker 1: some years you were a closer, some years you were,
Speaker 1: you know, doing what you were dead with the twins
Speaker 1: last year. How did you manage to sort of process
Speaker 1: through that when you were being jerked about and you
Speaker 1: played for I think it was the fifth different organizations,
Speaker 1: the Padres or was that that you played for when
Speaker 1: you when you made your debut.
Speaker 2: I think that I just realistically, I just enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I started enjoying baseball. That's kind of what I told
Speaker 2: you before. Like I got to the point where like
Speaker 2: I just like I said, I asked the man upstairs,
Speaker 2: I was like, hey, like it is baseball. What I'm
Speaker 2: supposed to be doing. And it wasn't the job that
Speaker 2: got me to Japan, but it was actually like when
Speaker 2: I was a free agent playing baseball and I was
Speaker 2: actually about to you know, I was about to get
Speaker 2: married to my ex wife at the time, and and
Speaker 2: she we were about to get married, and like I said,
Speaker 2: the minor league pay was kind of terrible. So it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: I got to figure out how to pay for a
Speaker 2: family and all this stuff and so and like I said,
Speaker 2: I got a job like the next day for free agency.
Speaker 2: I was going to be able to provide for my family.
Speaker 2: So that was kind of like the thing. And like
Speaker 2: I told my dad at a certain point too, as
Speaker 2: long as baseball was paying for my bills and I
Speaker 2: was going to be able to be out there and
Speaker 2: enjoy it, like I was going to keep playing. And
Speaker 2: so luckily I kept getting free agent deals and I
Speaker 2: kept getting opportunities, and I kept putting up numbers that
Speaker 2: I got a chance to enjoy it. Because now, like again,
Speaker 2: a lot of people put so much stress on it that,
Speaker 2: like I said, once I started enjoying it and becoming
Speaker 2: more grateful, I think that I had more success. And
Speaker 2: so I had more time when people saw that, and
Speaker 2: I think it translated into me being more grateful, translated
Speaker 2: in me getting more jobs. So it made it. And
Speaker 2: I mean early in my career, like I said, I
Speaker 2: was the top prospect for the Cup. A few years,
Speaker 2: I was also in the top one hundred prospects. I
Speaker 2: wanted championship in the miners with one of my teams.
Speaker 2: Like I had a lot of success. It's just like
Speaker 2: I said, I don't think at that time it might
Speaker 2: not have been my time. But also I did get
Speaker 2: jerked around. I felt like a lot. And so going
Speaker 2: through that, it just I had to rely on my
Speaker 2: mom and my dad and my foundation a lot, which
Speaker 2: you know I talk about in my book too, is
Speaker 2: the foundation that I have is my parents. And my
Speaker 2: mom and dad would always be like, hey, are you
Speaker 2: enjoying it? And I'd be like, yeah, I'm enjoying everything.
Speaker 2: But you know, the politics of the baseball thing, and
Speaker 2: I would love I like, I love the guys, I
Speaker 2: love being out here, I love being able to travel,
Speaker 2: I love playing baseball. And they're like, well, don't let
Speaker 2: that one thing overtake your whole joy of playing. And
Speaker 2: so I would just kind of live by that, like,
Speaker 2: you know, that was my foundation. My mom and dad
Speaker 2: would always tell me that, and so that was just
Speaker 2: kind of like how I just got through everything. And
Speaker 2: like I said, I just started. As I got older,
Speaker 2: and the more grateful I became of the game and
Speaker 2: the more I enjoyed the present moments that I was in,
Speaker 2: my numbers actually got better and I became, you know,
Speaker 2: a better person and a better player. And you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, luckily, I just kept be in chats.
Speaker 1: And was there any one like within the game who
Speaker 1: was supporting you? Because you know, as you touched on
Speaker 1: in your answer to my previous question, you know, you're
Speaker 1: you're a top prospects, You're a top hundred prospects. You
Speaker 1: were in Triple A within eight like a fixture in
Speaker 1: Triple A within eighteen months of being drafted. You know,
Speaker 1: and everyone says, you know, progressive prospects is not linear, right,
Speaker 1: So it's one of the whole cliches of baseball. But
Speaker 1: you must have at points through that needed to support
Speaker 1: I mean, your parents obviously a huge part of that.
Speaker 1: But whether support networks within the game, who who you
Speaker 1: were leaning on, and has that changed over the course
Speaker 1: of you know, your seventeen year career that you touched
Speaker 1: on the pays better. But the conditions also seem better
Speaker 1: in minor league clubhouses now.
Speaker 2: Right, No, they're definitely the clubhouses are better for sure,
Speaker 2: to all the metrics of it completely, Like they've revamped it.
Speaker 2: You know, they have a union now. You know they're
Speaker 2: treating it, you know, more friendly and more family friendly
Speaker 2: and not so much as such a just bottom line
Speaker 2: business from top to bottom. Light from the top, you know,
Speaker 2: to the bottom of the miners as well. But honestly,
Speaker 2: I was just speaking about this to my friends and
Speaker 2: to my family the other day, is I didn't really
Speaker 2: have like a lot of support going through the game
Speaker 2: because of like you said, how quick I got to
Speaker 2: triple A. If most people know the game and a
Speaker 2: lot of people don't. It's like you go through the
Speaker 2: system a lot of times with the guys you get
Speaker 2: drafted with, and so you normally go from each level
Speaker 2: with those same guys, and so you build a reputation
Speaker 2: or you build a camaraderie, and that's how you see
Speaker 2: like a lot of these baseball players that play for
Speaker 2: a while, they have friends that are in their weddings
Speaker 2: and stuff like that. There's always their teammates and stuff,
Speaker 2: because like they went from getting drafted to Low A
Speaker 2: to High A, to Double A to Triple A, and
Speaker 2: then they were in the big leagues together, so they
Speaker 2: spent all this time together because normally they just grew together.
Speaker 2: For me, it was crazy because I got drafted and
Speaker 2: then we spent a week in Arizona getting ready right
Speaker 2: after the draft, and once I signed, and then most
Speaker 2: of the college players that I was with that I
Speaker 2: would think that, you know, I was gonna grow with.
Speaker 2: We all went to short season together, and then from
Speaker 2: short season, I was only in short season for two weeks,
Speaker 2: so I was barely getting to know the guys I
Speaker 2: was with. And then I went to Low A, and
Speaker 2: so in Low A I was with much most of
Speaker 2: the guys that were drafted the year before I was,
Speaker 2: and you know, two years before I was, and then
Speaker 2: some of the younger prospects from that time, and a
Speaker 2: lot of the same time, a lot of the like
Speaker 2: Dominican guys who didn't speak a lot of English either.
Speaker 2: So I was there for about a month, so I
Speaker 2: didn't really get to meet those guys and hang out
Speaker 2: and be like friends with them either. And then I
Speaker 2: got to Scent to High A, and then I was
Speaker 2: in High A and I actually won a championship with
Speaker 2: those guys in High A, and so I thought, that's
Speaker 2: what that was the team I was going to grow
Speaker 2: up with and like be with. And it was mainly guys.
Speaker 2: There's like two guys from my draft. It was me,
Speaker 2: Casey Coleman and Andrew uh Carpenter. No it was no, No,
Speaker 2: it wasn't Andrew. I forgot who it was. No, it
Speaker 2: was Andrew Kashner. It was Andrew Kashner. We were all
Speaker 2: together on that team. But then it was guys from
Speaker 2: like two and three years before us that were like
Speaker 2: the cub's big draft class of all the position players,
Speaker 2: like college position players, and so we were there for
Speaker 2: the last like month and a half of the season,
Speaker 2: and so then, you know, that was my first year
Speaker 2: in the minors. Like I didn't get to really make
Speaker 2: friends with anybody, you know what I mean. So like
Speaker 2: all the guys that I was, all the teams I
Speaker 2: was with, had already been together for one or two
Speaker 2: years before I got there, So I didn't just get
Speaker 2: to I tried to, you know, put myself in there
Speaker 2: as much as possible. And so from there, like you said,
Speaker 2: the next year, I was in Double A and then
Speaker 2: Triple A, and then at the time Triple A with
Speaker 2: more of veteran free agent guys just going from up
Speaker 2: and down to the big leagues. It wasn't like it
Speaker 2: is now where it's a lot of prospects and those
Speaker 2: guys are getting shuttled up and down. You know. It
Speaker 2: was more veteran guys, and so my friends and the
Speaker 2: people I was with were all like twenty eight and
Speaker 2: twenty nine. I was like only twenty twenty one year
Speaker 2: old in Triple A at the time, so you know,
Speaker 2: I didn't get to really And then every year I
Speaker 2: was in Triple A. From then, like I said, it
Speaker 2: was free agent, so the team changed every year. It
Speaker 2: was different guys in and out, and so then I
Speaker 2: became the journeyman, right, So then I was all over
Speaker 2: the place, and so I never really got to make
Speaker 2: friends either, So I didn't really have a supportive system.
Speaker 2: I think when I was first to prospect, I had
Speaker 2: a couple people that were interested in talking to me
Speaker 2: and helped me a little bit. You know. I talked
Speaker 2: to Marlon Byrd, I talked to Derek Lee a little bit.
Speaker 2: Those were the main guys I talked to, especially with
Speaker 2: the Cubs, but like for the most part, it wasn't
Speaker 2: anybody that was just around me all the time, because,
Speaker 2: like I said, I was moving around so much, and
Speaker 2: as I got older. I think once I became a
Speaker 2: free agent, after my first full year of being a
Speaker 2: free agent was I became a free agent in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 2: I believe it, went to the Marlins and signed with
Speaker 2: the Marlins, and then that off season after that was
Speaker 2: like my first year being a free agent, and I
Speaker 2: think I was like twenty three or something like that
Speaker 2: or twenty four, and every team that called me wanted
Speaker 2: me to be a triple A veteran already in my career,
Speaker 2: and I was like, I'm only twenty four years old
Speaker 2: or whatever it was, and I was like, how do
Speaker 2: you want me to be a triple A veteran? That
Speaker 2: means you're already counting me out to not make it
Speaker 2: to the big league. So, you know, that was tough
Speaker 2: for me, and that's just kind of how teams looked
Speaker 2: at me so early in my career. And luckily, like
Speaker 2: I said, I just kind of just I said I
Speaker 2: started being more grateful for where I was at instead
Speaker 2: of getting worrying about the people jerking me around and
Speaker 2: worrying about you know, the teams and how they would
Speaker 2: treat me to a certain aspect. I was just like, hey,
Speaker 2: you know what, like, if I'm here, this is my
Speaker 2: this is my safe haven, this is the place like that,
Speaker 2: I can only control what I can do from out here,
Speaker 2: and nobody else can. Like if they want to send
Speaker 2: me down, if they want to, you know, send me home,
Speaker 2: whatever else they want to do. If they want to
Speaker 2: make up little things here and there about my off
Speaker 2: field stuff here and there, then fine, they can do it.
Speaker 2: But for the most part, I was like, I'm just
Speaker 2: gonna go out here and start enjoining it. And then,
Speaker 2: like I said, just my career ended up being better after,
Speaker 2: you know, going through those things, you know, having the
Speaker 2: opportunity to go through those things and battle through those
Speaker 2: things of you know, hearing kind of some lies that
Speaker 2: people told and some rumors here and there, and you know,
Speaker 2: still pitching through it and then trying to find jobs
Speaker 2: after then finding jobs and then showing people again and
Speaker 2: again and again why I should be you know, on
Speaker 2: a team or on a big league team. Is it's
Speaker 2: been funny, you know, Like I was telling a story
Speaker 2: again to one of the other guys on another podcast
Speaker 2: that you look at a lot of the guys that
Speaker 2: come back from Japan go from America to Japan and
Speaker 2: then come back. I was one of the few guys
Speaker 2: who had better numbers than most of the guys who've
Speaker 2: come back back over And that's no disrespect to those
Speaker 2: guys who went over there and played and came back.
Speaker 2: But I didn't have any offers to come back from
Speaker 2: Japan back to America and have a big league deal
Speaker 2: like these guys did when I think I should have,
Speaker 2: and like I had nothing like the year that I
Speaker 2: thought that I would have. I didn't get an offer
Speaker 2: from many teams in America, and my team wouldn't allow
Speaker 2: me to talk to another team in Japan that year.
Speaker 2: And then the next year, I played through a minor
Speaker 2: injury and I still had a pretty good year, and
Speaker 2: our team did well again and I pitched well. I
Speaker 2: had no interest from any teams until literally like the
Speaker 2: week before spring training started, and I signed literally I
Speaker 2: think two days before spring training like officially opened up
Speaker 2: for pitchers and catchers and like our report date was
Speaker 2: the next day or something like that. And I was
Speaker 2: all the way in Japan at the time too, because
Speaker 2: I had just had my baby boy in Japan, and
Speaker 2: so I had to fly from Japan all the way
Speaker 2: to Arizona, which a lot of people don't know. So
Speaker 2: I had to do that and it was crazy. So,
Speaker 2: you know, it's just like how my career's gone, and
Speaker 2: I've just learned to accept it. As long as I
Speaker 2: had an opportunity to play and to enjoy life and
Speaker 2: enjoy the game I was playing, and that it was
Speaker 2: able to provide for me and the people around me
Speaker 2: that I cared about, I was just going to keep playing.
Speaker 2: So I've just been blessed to be able to do it.
Speaker 3: And You've been quite vocal around kind of like the
Speaker 3: the treatment and the opportunities for like young black prospects
Speaker 3: in the sport. I guess part of it comes from
Speaker 3: your journey yourself, But like, like, is that something like
Speaker 3: specifically that you kind of obviously you see for others happening.
Speaker 3: Do you talk to other like young guys when you
Speaker 3: were around to be like, am I being singled out here?
Speaker 3: Or is this kind of something else that's happening on
Speaker 3: a larger scale.
Speaker 2: It wasn't something I singled out. You could just tell
Speaker 2: just because when I was coming up, we had a
Speaker 2: lot less Like I wouldn't say we had a lot less.
Speaker 2: You could tell which organizations were more keen to draft
Speaker 2: and develop African American ball players and black baseball players
Speaker 2: at the time. You know what, my the agent that
Speaker 2: I had in the scout who actually signed me, told me,
Speaker 2: you know what, teams like to just kind of like
Speaker 2: look out for and like kind of like be kind
Speaker 2: of just kind of scope it out and just look
Speaker 2: at like the discrepancies that they have, like they might
Speaker 2: have like maybe one black player in the miners somewhere,
Speaker 2: or they look at their draft period like they might
Speaker 2: not even draft the black players for the past like
Speaker 2: four or five drafts, Like it would just it wouldn't
Speaker 2: just be like it would be obvious, but to the
Speaker 2: untrained eye, it wouldn't be obvious, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: And so the Cubs, like we had a few guys,
Speaker 2: and that's a I mean, I'm thankful that I had
Speaker 2: the guys that I had around me, but you see
Speaker 2: them drafting and developing more black players and more black
Speaker 2: players playing now, but at the same time, you see
Speaker 2: more of us drafted and playing, and there's more of
Speaker 2: us in the miners, but it's not correlating to it
Speaker 2: being the same in the big leagues, like you know
Speaker 2: what I mean, Like you look at the eighties and nineties,
Speaker 2: there's a tunnel back black players and African American players
Speaker 2: on most of the teams, all stages, you know, especially
Speaker 2: in the big leagues, there's a ton But then subtly,
Speaker 2: slowly it kind of phased out and it got less
Speaker 2: and less and the game became like less interesting, I guess,
Speaker 2: which is what they would say. But it kind of
Speaker 2: phased us out and made base It made football and
Speaker 2: basketball more popular, and then you know, you didn't have
Speaker 2: any you know, black athletes in baseball being the face
Speaker 2: of the league anymore like you did in the nineties
Speaker 2: in the you know, in the early nineties and things
Speaker 2: like that. So it's my it's I feel like it's
Speaker 2: my job to like tell those black players when they
Speaker 2: come through, or the ones that are around me, to
Speaker 2: you know, give them some help and like give them
Speaker 2: other tips and tools and things that I've seen. I
Speaker 2: do it for all the players for sure that are
Speaker 2: around me, just because I mean, that's the type of
Speaker 2: person I am. Like, I want to see everybody be
Speaker 2: the best person they can try to be as positive
Speaker 2: I can't. But especially like if I see a black player,
Speaker 2: especially as much as I've been in triple A in
Speaker 2: the big leagues over the past couple of years, if
Speaker 2: I see them there, I wouldn't be able to like, hey, like,
Speaker 2: you know, give them some extra like little points pointers here,
Speaker 2: and maybe out of my way a little bit more
Speaker 2: to see them have more success, because I know what
Speaker 2: it takes for them to get in the door, and
Speaker 2: then not only get in the door, but keep the
Speaker 2: door open enough for them to stay for a little
Speaker 2: bit and shut the door behind them, possibly so they
Speaker 2: can enjoy themselves and be comfortable. You know, That's what
Speaker 2: That's what it comes down to for me. Like I
Speaker 2: think Tommy fam I saw a quote from him the
Speaker 2: past couple of days that you know, he is talking
Speaker 2: about how the game's changed so much over the past
Speaker 2: couple of years, that like when he first came into
Speaker 2: the game, like the average big league player had you know,
Speaker 2: five plus years of service time, whereas now it's gotten
Speaker 2: too so bad that it's less than three years for
Speaker 2: each player, like right now, like technically I have almost
Speaker 2: three years of big league service time, and like you said,
Speaker 2: with six teams where you know, I went to Japan
Speaker 2: for four years, that probably would have been some years
Speaker 2: I'll probably probably hopefully would have got some more. But
Speaker 2: the fact that I didn't come back, and like I said,
Speaker 2: with a big league deal, with what I did, it's
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's the system or if I
Speaker 2: don't know, because I mean, I played well, and like
Speaker 2: I said, maybe I should have played better, but who knows.
Speaker 2: It is what it is, And like I said, I
Speaker 2: just try to keep having fun as long as I
Speaker 2: had opportunities.
Speaker 1: Do you think that I sort of want to ask
Speaker 1: you about the state of things right now. You've touched
Speaker 1: on it a little bit in answer to Russell's question,
Speaker 1: But it does seem like there's a conversation in baseball
Speaker 1: happening right now about the place of black players in
Speaker 1: the game. You know, you talked about the eighties and nineties.
Speaker 1: A lot of people talk about that, but there's also
Speaker 1: a few guys in the spotlight. I mean CC Sabathia
Speaker 1: going into the Hall of Fame, at the same time
Speaker 1: as guys like Tristan McKenzie, Hunter Green being in front
Speaker 1: line starters and guys like Kumara Roka and Mark Church
Speaker 1: getting an awful lot of hype as prospects. Do you
Speaker 1: feel like that's signs of a structural change or are
Speaker 1: these just you know, a bit like Mookie Betts. Everyone said,
Speaker 1: that's the argument everyone makes, Well, you know, what do
Speaker 1: you mean, what are you talking about? One of the
Speaker 1: best players in the game is in African American guy?
Speaker 1: But he but he's he's the Is he the exception
Speaker 1: not the rule? L Kumar Roka and Mark Church the
Speaker 1: exception of the rule is it's the point that you
Speaker 1: made in answer to the previous question that it's about volume,
Speaker 1: and it's about loads of people of African American origin
Speaker 1: being throughout the game. That's the issue, not that there
Speaker 1: is no Rooky Bats in the way that there was
Speaker 1: a Ken Griffey in nineteen nineties.
Speaker 2: I think it's similar to that. I mean, but you
Speaker 2: also don't see baseball marketed as well as you know
Speaker 2: a lot of other sports too, you know. But it's also,
Speaker 2: like I said, it's not so much I feel like
Speaker 2: it's from the top down, Like there's no black owners,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean, there's no voices in the
Speaker 2: front offices really either. I mean you look at even
Speaker 2: the GMS and the you know v please that play
Speaker 2: the vps of player personnel for a lot of teams,
Speaker 2: Like there's no really African Americans there either. You don't
Speaker 2: see it, especially the pitching coaches and bullpen coaches around
Speaker 2: the around the teams and around the leagues. For African
Speaker 2: Americans to have other people to look up to, you know,
Speaker 2: you have them in their communities like here and there,
Speaker 2: because there's been guys that have played and there's the
Speaker 2: old school guys who have played who are like I said,
Speaker 2: like I look at you know, some guys like Marvin
Speaker 2: Freeman and some of my guys like C. J. Stewart
Speaker 2: who I grew up around, and that era of baseball,
Speaker 2: Like I said, there's more black players where those guys
Speaker 2: are starting to get older now, and so who's going
Speaker 2: to teach the younger guys? Like after that wave leaves,
Speaker 2: there's not going to be a lot of us, and
Speaker 2: then they're gonna want to look at our numbers and
Speaker 2: look at the like accomplishments that we have and like
Speaker 2: I said, a lot of guys don't have a lot
Speaker 2: of time like those old guys did either, And so
Speaker 2: I mean and again, and it's not being marketed to
Speaker 2: that same community as well as basketball. You know, in
Speaker 2: football are you know there's such a raw raw around
Speaker 2: basketball and football that baseball, even though like it's a
Speaker 2: huge sport and the stadiums are always packed, it's not
Speaker 2: on TV the way that it should be. You know,
Speaker 2: it's not marketed around the world the way it should be.
Speaker 2: It is a global sport because of Showhy, because of
Speaker 2: other guys in other countries. But at the same point,
Speaker 2: like I said, like they're not talking about you know,
Speaker 2: baseball and the barbershops honestly, just to be real, like
Speaker 2: you know, it's basketball season and then during the summer,
Speaker 2: like it's okay, what summer what's what's high school summer
Speaker 2: football looking like? What's how the summer football? Like what's
Speaker 2: the summer league looking like? You know, it needs to
Speaker 2: be more prevalent to those communities too, where in the
Speaker 2: barbershops and those in around those communities where it's like, hey,
Speaker 2: like what's such and such hitting like today, like did
Speaker 2: this guy did Hunter Green throw nine to day, Like,
Speaker 2: how is this blah blah blah. And again you see
Speaker 2: what ESPN and the deal with MLB. I think they
Speaker 2: just terminated their deal to stop having as many games
Speaker 2: on TV too. So I mean it's just it's it's
Speaker 2: just not marketed the way it should to the right
Speaker 2: people to get that. But then also the front offices
Speaker 2: and the people around the front offices and the owners
Speaker 2: aren't really out there and pulling for these guys to
Speaker 2: be in their organizations as well. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, there's a lot of us and a
Speaker 2: lot of black players that are in the minors, but
Speaker 2: that hasn't transitioned to the big leagues for some reason.
Speaker 2: And I've talked about on Black Baseball Mixtape and I've
Speaker 2: talked to on my podcast, and I'm glad to see
Speaker 2: that there's more of an influx and I see that
Speaker 2: there's more players coming in, but the numbers still say
Speaker 2: that I mean, it's still pretty low right now, you know,
Speaker 2: So like it's tough to be like, like, I see
Speaker 2: it happening, but the proof needs to be there as well.
Speaker 3: And it's almost that there are structural issues beyond MLB,
Speaker 3: like the from even what we see from this side
Speaker 3: of the pond to be that like the everybody talks
Speaker 3: about the cost effectively of a baseball player before even
Speaker 3: even touching college. The fact that you have to play
Speaker 3: on these travelbl teams, that the thought that you have
Speaker 3: to kind of be able to fund your kids spending
Speaker 3: probably tens of thousands of pounds on them to kind
Speaker 3: of be seen like that's just something that puts it
Speaker 3: into like a dick during economic brake bracket people and
Speaker 3: then puts out the dis like the the people who
Speaker 3: don't do not live in that economic advantage.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you see it with you know,
Speaker 2: you have the NBA, like with these basketball and baseball
Speaker 2: I mean not basketball baseball camps, but you see with
Speaker 2: the basketball and like the football camps, like the unarmored
Speaker 2: football camps. You know, the NBA they have like the
Speaker 2: Nike League, the A v d L, the the Adidas League.
Speaker 2: You know, all these companies have these leagues to build
Speaker 2: these prospects up where baseball like you have perfect game
Speaker 2: in these AAU and travel ball teams, and you have
Speaker 2: these prospect teams from certain teams for certain places, but
Speaker 2: you don't have a like I don't see the backing
Speaker 2: to be as you know, marketable, as you know these
Speaker 2: basketball teams and these football camps are you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. I feel like you see these camps and
Speaker 2: you hear about these kids all the time, Like everybody
Speaker 2: hears about the number one basketball prospect all the time,
Speaker 2: but you don't hear about the number one baseball prospect
Speaker 2: as much as I think you should. And I feel like,
Speaker 2: I mean, I feel like that's just our game to
Speaker 2: a certain degree, like we've always been underrated, but like
Speaker 2: and I think people just get bored at a certain
Speaker 2: point because we play so many games and it's like
Speaker 2: it's just when we're when we're there, I feel like
Speaker 2: we're always there, and so like you're like, okay, finally,
Speaker 2: like it's enough baseball. But at the same point, like
Speaker 2: I've said, like I don't feel like it's been marketed
Speaker 2: properly to the right people that it should be. And
Speaker 2: baseball to a certain degree is an acquired taste, just
Speaker 2: like you know certain other sports might be, like certain
Speaker 2: people with cricket and certain people you know with badminton
Speaker 2: or ping pong, like you know, things like that, Like
Speaker 2: you have an acquired taste to baseball and you ask
Speaker 2: people a lot of times, I'm like, oh, well, Baseball's boring.
Speaker 2: And then now that they're trying to cater to the fans,
Speaker 2: I feel like baseball is losing some of his you know,
Speaker 2: keat essence that it had before. And it's I feel
Speaker 2: like it's going to circle back at a certain point
Speaker 2: in time. But like I said, I think it boils
Speaker 2: down for as long it is like for these teams
Speaker 2: and these companies to get the word out. I feel
Speaker 2: like there should be like some Nike Baseball teams that
Speaker 2: they're like promoting, or a Nike Baseball league or something
Speaker 2: like that, which would be cool to have. Right, you know,
Speaker 2: you can have the perfect game and all these things,
Speaker 2: but like if you had a Nike or and Armour
Speaker 2: or like a Rebok or Adida's baseball league where you
Speaker 2: had the top prospects playing for certain teams, and especially
Speaker 2: with the NIL now you can have guys you know,
Speaker 2: not necessarily play you know, for high school's prospects, but
Speaker 2: also you can have a college summer league where you
Speaker 2: have like Nike sponsored like baseball leagues and stuff like
Speaker 2: that instead of like, but I think MLB has their
Speaker 2: sponsor and backing behind some of the summer collegiate leagues
Speaker 2: now too, though, so I think they're kind of like
Speaker 2: overseeing all of it instead of, like I said, therefore
Speaker 2: you put Nike or somebody else, you get fresher eyes
Speaker 2: and newer eyes in different people's opinions of what baseball
Speaker 2: could be. Instead of having changed the game, you can
Speaker 2: have it in a marketable situation where these people can
Speaker 2: come in and be like, hey, well, what you're doing
Speaker 2: is already fantastic, but if we get somebody to just
Speaker 2: shoot it from this angle, or get somebody to look
Speaker 2: at it from this point of view, you might get
Speaker 2: some more fans instead of changing the game to make
Speaker 2: it try to fit a narrative, instead of you know,
Speaker 2: being the narrative.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, I could probably talk about this for hours,
Speaker 1: but we don't got to say amount of time, and
Speaker 1: we do really want to talk about Japan. Russell and
Speaker 1: Night both like love love like talking to players who've
Speaker 1: had the opportunity to play out there, because yeah, it's
Speaker 1: just it's just like it's exactly the opposite. It's exactly
Speaker 1: what you are talking about. Wishing that people felt like
Speaker 1: about baseball in the States. Is what it is there, right,
Speaker 1: you know it is? It is part of everyday life
Speaker 1: and the national obsession. I just want to sort of
Speaker 1: like like open the floor to you there. But I
Speaker 1: also want to start, like, I bet you didn't think
Speaker 1: you were going to pitch in sixty seven games in
Speaker 1: that first year with the carp did you?
Speaker 2: Oh? My god? Okay, So that was the funny story
Speaker 2: about that too. Like I said, when I'm fully done
Speaker 2: playing baseball, I'm going to write another book, and that's
Speaker 2: gonna be my autobiography. So there's gonna be a lot
Speaker 2: of like untold stories and more in depth things that
Speaker 2: like people don't know about my career that I think
Speaker 2: will honestly help people see kind of and realize and go, honestly,
Speaker 2: go buy the first book hopefully once I get the
Speaker 2: autobiography out, but I think everybody should go buy the
Speaker 2: first book before the autobioph You anyway, is a great book.
Speaker 2: But that first year I went over to Japan was
Speaker 2: actually the second year I had honestly become a full
Speaker 2: time reliever. So I had just figured out like kind
Speaker 2: of like my what my routine's going to be in
Speaker 2: the year before I had thrown in like sixty plus
Speaker 2: games as a reliever as my first year as a reliever,
Speaker 2: and I was just like, okay, like I guess I
Speaker 2: figured something out. I guess this works. But it was
Speaker 2: like my first four years really when I go to
Speaker 2: Japan and I threw like eight or nine games in
Speaker 2: spring training, and then I threw sixty seven like you said,
Speaker 2: during the regular season, and then I threw in every
Speaker 2: game we played in the playoffs but like one. So
Speaker 2: I ended up with like almost eighty something games that year,
Speaker 2: and so people don't understand, like my numbers in the
Speaker 2: Japan series were so bad that year and that was
Speaker 2: show Hayes last year, and my numbers were so bad,
Speaker 2: and I look back on some of those games and
Speaker 2: I was like Jesus Christ, I was really tired, like
Speaker 2: and I like you don't think about while you're playing,
Speaker 2: cause you're just like, hey, it's the playoffs, Like I
Speaker 2: just need to get through this, like I need to
Speaker 2: just but like some of my pitches, I was just
Speaker 2: like these are not moving whatsoever, because it was just
Speaker 2: like I was probably just like I was so tired,
Speaker 2: and like I played every game, like not only did
Speaker 2: I play every game, like I probably got like up
Speaker 2: to get in almost probably I pitched in sixty seven.
Speaker 2: I probably got up to throw in a game probably
Speaker 2: about one hundred times counting the sixty seven, So yeah,
Speaker 2: probably like another thirty times. I probably they were like, hey, Jay,
Speaker 2: like we might need you in this situation.
Speaker 3: And you also pitched it in the Mexican Winning League
Speaker 3: that winter as well, so at that kind of like
Speaker 3: into that. Like, my my question is kind of like
Speaker 3: how did the the MPB deal come about? Like were
Speaker 3: you was it? Was it a quick conversation. Did that
Speaker 3: stint in the Mexican Winning League stoke some conversations or
Speaker 3: was it happening beforehand? Are you were you thinking of
Speaker 3: like this is gonna be.
Speaker 2: Oh well, sorry I cut you off there, Oh sorry,
Speaker 2: but it kind of it was. I was trying to
Speaker 2: go over to Japan for like two years before that,
Speaker 2: but at that point in time, like I said, it's
Speaker 2: crazy how baseball has changed, where now guys that don't
Speaker 2: even have big league time are going over to Japan
Speaker 2: and like whatnot. Like where before it was kind of
Speaker 2: like a requirement that you had big league time at
Speaker 2: least some point like you had even if you had
Speaker 2: like two winnings of Big League time, Like they're gonna
Speaker 2: ask you to come play in Japan more than anybody
Speaker 2: that's just got triple A time. But now like it's
Speaker 2: you know, if you only have triple A time, like
Speaker 2: you're going to big here, you're going over to Japan,
Speaker 2: or if you're in Double A, or even if you're
Speaker 2: you know, look at uh who is Carter Stewart got
Speaker 2: drafted and went straight over to Japan for seven years.
Speaker 2: But it's it happened. I was with the Padres, and
Speaker 2: the Padres told me that, you know, I was going
Speaker 2: to be on the team, making it probably out of
Speaker 2: spring training because that was the first year that I
Speaker 2: was on the roster. And you know, we have options
Speaker 2: in America where they can send you up and down
Speaker 2: for like pretty much like five years of your life.
Speaker 2: Like you get to be wasted as long as they
Speaker 2: want to. As long as you have options, you get
Speaker 2: wasted pretty much. So the Padres told me that I
Speaker 2: had a good chance to make the team out of camp,
Speaker 2: depending on what moves they made during the off season,
Speaker 2: but I was going to be part of the bullpen.
Speaker 2: Then they wanted me to be a part of the
Speaker 2: bullpen and then I got the I got the option
Speaker 2: to get called from Japan and my agent was like, hey,
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell the team. He's like, do you
Speaker 2: want to I was actually in Mexico and he's like,
Speaker 2: do you still want to go to Japan? And I
Speaker 2: was like yeah, like why, Like what was it? I
Speaker 2: was like depending on the deal, like like I'm gonna go,
Speaker 2: like but like more than likely, Like I'd rather go
Speaker 2: to Japan anyway because it's somewhere like I've never been
Speaker 2: and I get to go play baseball. And then he
Speaker 2: told me the deals of the contract. He's like, you're
Speaker 2: gonna be guaranteed more money than league minimum in the
Speaker 2: major leagues. Here, you're gonna get a signing bonus, you're
Speaker 2: gonna have a couple of little incentives here or there,
Speaker 2: and they're gonna pay for like all your living stuff,
Speaker 2: and you're gonna get a flight for your family too
Speaker 2: to come visit you. And I was like, yeah, I'm
Speaker 2: definitely going, like for sure, like and they and he's like,
Speaker 2: they're gonna want you to be either the closer or
Speaker 2: the setup guy. He's like, I'm not sure yet, but
Speaker 2: you know, they almost made the playoffs. Last year and
Speaker 2: they're hoping that, like you know, you can help and
Speaker 2: I was like, nah, for sure, like I want to go.
Speaker 2: And then he went and talked to the padres because
Speaker 2: when you normally go through those processes and they have
Speaker 2: your rights, they have to jet these team normally has
Speaker 2: to buy you out and so they have to pay
Speaker 2: the team amount of money. So the padre said no
Speaker 2: to the Japanese team. I think like two or three
Speaker 2: times before my agent called me and was like, Yo,
Speaker 2: they keep saying no, Like what do you want me
Speaker 2: to tell them? And I was like, you go tell
Speaker 2: them just that, like they can't, like they shouldn't keep
Speaker 2: me from this opportunity in so many words, like I'm
Speaker 2: gonna get more in depth on that, like I said
Speaker 2: in the autobiography, but in so many words, I was like,
Speaker 2: you know, like hey, like if they're not going to
Speaker 2: tell me that I'm in the big leagues like for sure,
Speaker 2: then like why are they keeping me from going and
Speaker 2: trying to helping another team win? Like that was kind
Speaker 2: of my main thing. And he was like okay, and
Speaker 2: then he talked to him one last time and they
Speaker 2: finally said yes, and I got shipped over to Japan
Speaker 2: and I was, like I said, I was in Mexico
Speaker 2: and my team in Mexico, I think we were like
Speaker 2: first or second place or something like that. And I
Speaker 2: was like, hey, can I stay till at least like
Speaker 2: we're for sure, like in the playoffs, and my just
Speaker 2: like no. The Japanese team said you cannot stay, like
Speaker 2: you need to leave immediately, and I was like all right.
Speaker 1: And so you played those first two years with the
Speaker 1: carp who were, as you said at the time, one
Speaker 1: of the great teams. And you know, as you said
Speaker 1: your first year there was Atarnes last year, but in
Speaker 1: your team you had the sort of the bookends of
Speaker 1: like two greats of Japanese baseball, where you had a
Speaker 1: forty one year old Hiroki Kuroda and a twenty one
Speaker 1: year old Saya Suzuki is your teammates on the same team.
Speaker 1: That must have been pretty crazy seeing this guy who's
Speaker 1: been one of the old time greats of Japanese baseball
Speaker 1: but in both the US and Japan, and then this
Speaker 1: guy he's gone on to be, you know, a major success.
Speaker 1: It's a bit like odd that you were on the
Speaker 1: same team as both of those guys at the same time.
Speaker 2: No, it was crazy and I saw, I saw how
Speaker 2: good say it could be, like before he even got
Speaker 2: over here. And I still think that he hasn't realized
Speaker 2: how good he can really be. I think that like
Speaker 2: injuries have kind of taken away some of that and
Speaker 2: taken a lot of his confidence away, and like how
Speaker 2: good he was could he can be? But like prime
Speaker 2: Saya Suzuki, like he should have probably like three at
Speaker 2: least two MVPs for the Central League over in Japan,
Speaker 2: but I didn't think. I mean, I looked at the
Speaker 2: team and then, like I said, I saw who was
Speaker 2: on the team, but I also saw kind of who
Speaker 2: I was following behind. And who I was following behind
Speaker 2: was one of my friends, Deontay Heath, like I said,
Speaker 2: and they always made the playoffs the year before, and
Speaker 2: he had put up fantastic numbers, and I was like,
Speaker 2: how did they let this guy go and want me
Speaker 2: to come be better than him? One I was like,
Speaker 2: that's kind of crazy. So I was like and then
Speaker 2: I saw that they signed Corona too, and then they
Speaker 2: had Chris Johnson, and I saw just the team that
Speaker 2: we were having, and I was just like, you know,
Speaker 2: like there's a chance that like, we could be really good.
Speaker 2: And then I saw Saya like during spring training in
Speaker 2: the first couple of weeks of the season, and I
Speaker 2: was like, yeah, we're gonna be good, like and then
Speaker 2: people underrated. We had you know, two great players our
Speaker 2: first baseman, our second basement with like fantastic. I think
Speaker 2: they're probably they should probably both go into the Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame over in Japan for Japanese baseball. Uh, they're
Speaker 2: both should go in the Hall of Fame over there.
Speaker 2: And then we had the m v P of the
Speaker 2: league in center field one year too, So, I mean,
Speaker 2: and I thought he was going to His name was Maru.
Speaker 2: I thought he was actually going to come over to
Speaker 2: America at some point, but he said he wanted to
Speaker 2: stay at home, Like he got paid more money to
Speaker 2: stay at home, I believe than he thought he could
Speaker 2: have got to come to America. But he was he
Speaker 2: was fair like that. That due was really good too.
Speaker 2: I give him a shout out to Yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I mean, you touched on him before I brought him up.
Speaker 1: I was gonna I was gonna mention Kakuchi, who is
Speaker 1: like a bit of a sort of Internet darling for
Speaker 1: his infield defense.
Speaker 2: Isn't it.
Speaker 1: He must have been pretty he just felt pretty good.
Speaker 1: If the ball's on the floor, that that's an out.
Speaker 1: That guy he's pretty special defender, right, Yeah, he's won
Speaker 1: the Gold Glove.
Speaker 2: I think like every year he's been over there pretty much, right, So,
Speaker 2: like but any you knew anything on the right side
Speaker 2: of the infield, like if it was a ground ball,
Speaker 2: he has a chance to get to it somehow, which
Speaker 2: was unbelievable. And so I mean, just trusting the defense
Speaker 2: that we had behind you and trusting the team that
Speaker 2: we had, I think was one of the best things
Speaker 2: like I ever, Like I said, I ever did like
Speaker 2: over there. Winning the Japan Series is huge and very
Speaker 2: special for a lot of places, but like winning your
Speaker 2: league is so much more special, I feel like than
Speaker 2: like winning like the Japan Series because you pretty much
Speaker 2: do all the things that the Japan Series team does
Speaker 2: if you win the league championship, so it's you do
Speaker 2: all the same stuff. So like when we're over there,
Speaker 2: like I said, we won three in a row. We
Speaker 2: won three championships in a row with Hiroshima, so we
Speaker 2: had some special teams and like I said, Corona was
Speaker 2: a huge part of it. He helped, you know, stabilize
Speaker 2: that pitching staff. And I mean he I mean, he's
Speaker 2: somebody to look up to, and just the way he
Speaker 2: went about his business every day and what he was
Speaker 2: doing and what he was able to do at the
Speaker 2: age he was doing it, you know, commend him so
Speaker 2: like tremendously on that. And then, like I said, you
Speaker 2: see Seya and the trajectory you've been on since, you know,
Speaker 2: since since I got to see people understand, like I
Speaker 2: got to see, say, before he came over here to America,
Speaker 2: like I said, and I got to see his like
Speaker 2: first couple of years of like baseball in you know
Speaker 2: Hiroshima too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like seeing the band before they get huge, Right,
Speaker 1: that's your version, like being said before he came over
Speaker 1: to the Cubs. I'm so I want to sort of finish.
Speaker 2: A bit jay By.
Speaker 1: I'm sure Russ has probably got some more questions as well,
Speaker 1: but asking a few questions about what's happened since you've
Speaker 1: come back. So you did sort of touch on this
Speaker 1: a little bit in answer to some of our earlier questions.
Speaker 1: But what what was it about your experience in Japan
Speaker 1: that prepared you for the success that you've had subsequently
Speaker 1: in Milwaukee, in San Francisco and in Toronto especially.
Speaker 2: What what was it about?
Speaker 1: Was it just sort of that realization that you could
Speaker 1: step up and you could take that really important role
Speaker 1: in a successful team.
Speaker 2: Is that is that?
Speaker 1: Is that purely what's been behind? What's changed for you
Speaker 1: since you've come back to the States.
Speaker 2: No. I think for me, it was just trusting myself.
Speaker 2: Like I went over there and I just got to,
Speaker 2: like I said, I got to be myself. I got
Speaker 2: to turn into Smiley j and I got to just
Speaker 2: like I say'd be grateful for the moments I had
Speaker 2: over there, and then bringing that back and bringing that
Speaker 2: experience back and being on the biggest stage over there
Speaker 2: and being able to, you know, handle it, but also
Speaker 2: being over there and just the they don't play different
Speaker 2: brands of baseball, but knowing like how to approach hitters
Speaker 2: and like how to like use my stuff in different
Speaker 2: situations a little bit differently. And then when I came back,
Speaker 2: honestly having the two catchers that I had the two
Speaker 2: years that the first two years I came back, I
Speaker 2: had yas Moni Grondhal with the Brewers, and then I
Speaker 2: had buster posey with the Giants. You know, they're both
Speaker 2: probably good, right, so like yeah, not bad, not bad.
Speaker 2: Still they had they instilled a lot of confidence in
Speaker 2: me too because of just like talking baseball with them.
Speaker 2: That's one thing that I learned over there too, is
Speaker 2: like learning how like I said, to approach hitters and
Speaker 2: then asking them questions about things, and like having them
Speaker 2: have confidence in me to do certain things that I
Speaker 2: hadn't done before, but like knowing that I was capable
Speaker 2: of doing as well, and you know, being over there,
Speaker 2: just like I said, I got to be myself. I
Speaker 2: think that was the main thing I learned over there
Speaker 2: is that I can trust myself and I can trust
Speaker 2: that I'm good enough to be out there. It wasn't
Speaker 2: you know, not trusting myself before. But I finally had
Speaker 2: the opportunity to be out there and be on the
Speaker 2: biggest stage. I had those opportunities in Mexico before, and
Speaker 2: I had a little bit in Venezuela, but I just
Speaker 2: really never had those opportunities. I was never given those opportunities,
Speaker 2: I felt like in America and the few small times
Speaker 2: I did like I said, and I played in the
Speaker 2: playoffs a couple of times for minor league teams and
Speaker 2: we did well. But having those opportunities and then coming
Speaker 2: back and knowing like, hey, like I can pitch in
Speaker 2: these games like it should I should have trusted myself
Speaker 2: all along. I think just knowing that I was able
Speaker 2: to do it is was the biggest thing for me
Speaker 2: coming back.
Speaker 1: And in terms of the teams that you played for,
Speaker 1: you obviously have great memories of all of them. But
Speaker 1: the one that I've certainly heard when I've listened to
Speaker 1: other podcasts where you've spoken Jay, that you seem to
Speaker 1: speak with most fondness is is Toronto, which is which
Speaker 1: is kind of kind of remarkable, given that you know
Speaker 1: that was a really difficult time for you in your
Speaker 1: personal life. You're for people who don't know your your
Speaker 1: your son j R. Was was born very premature in Utah, right,
Speaker 1: which is not near Toronto on a mat and you know,
Speaker 1: you were performing incredibly on an absolutely brilliant Blue Jay's
Speaker 1: team with some absolute superstars whilst going through what must
Speaker 1: have been like an incredible different, incredibly difficult time in
Speaker 1: your personal life. And I just wanted to ask about,
Speaker 1: like how the Blue Jays supported you and how you
Speaker 1: sort of managed to endure through what must have been
Speaker 1: a really difficult situation for you through that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. See, I think that's why I speak so fondly
Speaker 2: of them, you know, even though again, same thing that
Speaker 2: kind of got jerked around a little bit at the end, right,
Speaker 2: it just kind of happens. But just the support they
Speaker 2: had in letting me go back and forth to Utah,
Speaker 2: and the timing of the things that they were trying
Speaker 2: to do, and them working with me and understanding the
Speaker 2: situation I was in, I think it did a lot.
Speaker 2: And I don't think it was just the organization. I
Speaker 2: think it was more, honestly then the organization. It was
Speaker 2: the people and the fans in the whole country of Canada. Honestly,
Speaker 2: I think they and the support that they gave us
Speaker 2: in the prayers they sent out, and all the fans
Speaker 2: that supported us and checked in on us and will
Speaker 2: speak to us and wish nothing but good and positive
Speaker 2: things to us all the time, I think they helped
Speaker 2: us more than anything else. I mean, again, I support
Speaker 2: and think about the team and the fondness of the team,
Speaker 2: with the ability that they had in the front office
Speaker 2: of having and allowing me the things that they did
Speaker 2: but I think it was the fans and the people
Speaker 2: of Canada and just the people of Toronto especially, and
Speaker 2: just how they supported us and just wishing all the
Speaker 2: wishing us well and making sure like that I was
Speaker 2: there and that when I got to be there, that
Speaker 2: you know, they gave me nothing but love and support
Speaker 2: the whole time I was there.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's absolutely wonderful. And I kind of wanted
Speaker 1: to ask you if you don't mind what what Jr's
Speaker 1: taught you, You know, you must have learned something from
Speaker 1: from him being part of your life and and and
Speaker 1: sort of brought that back to your baseball too.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: He teaches me something every day that little man, the
Speaker 2: fact that he's here is nothing short of a miracle.
Speaker 2: So he teaches me, first of all, that miracles do exist,
Speaker 2: and that, you know, the power of prayer and positivity
Speaker 2: is definitely a real thing, because you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of people around us could have been really negative, and
Speaker 2: they had every right to be at the certain points
Speaker 2: of times, but you know, all the people around us
Speaker 2: were so positive and so supportive the whole time, and
Speaker 2: maybe sure that you know that they just kept pumping
Speaker 2: nothing but positive energy into not only us, but the
Speaker 2: nurses and Jr. And everything else like that, And so
Speaker 2: it showed me definitely the power of positivity and the
Speaker 2: power of love, and definitely the power of just you know,
Speaker 2: like I said, prayer and you know, good vibes and
Speaker 2: all that. But he's taught me that, you know, we're
Speaker 2: stronger than we'll ever think. That's one thing that I think.
Speaker 2: He's the strongest person in our family already. He's been
Speaker 2: through so much already. He just literally a week ago
Speaker 2: had his tonsils taken out. So this little man's been
Speaker 2: through so much already, and he keeps just going and
Speaker 2: he keeps being happy, and he keeps smiling and keeps
Speaker 2: being him. And you know, I learned a lot from
Speaker 2: him just being himself and being here has showed me, like, hey,
Speaker 2: like no matter what I'm going through, like I can
Speaker 2: get through a little bit more because like he's gone
Speaker 2: through so much already, like I've gone through a lot
Speaker 2: in my life, and I want him to understand that
Speaker 2: when he gets older, that he's going to be able
Speaker 2: to achieve anything. But it's been nothing compared to what
Speaker 2: he's achieved already. So for me, it's literally he's taught
Speaker 2: me just to stay on the right path and just
Speaker 2: keep trying to grind through whatever you can. And just
Speaker 2: like I said, don't And I think one of the
Speaker 2: other main things is don't take any second for granted,
Speaker 2: because you never know what could happen. Because at any moment, honestly,
Speaker 2: during his whole ordeal when he was in Utah, we
Speaker 2: didn't know and they tell us now and they didn't
Speaker 2: tell us then about like how close he was possibly
Speaker 2: to not being here. And it's you know, minutes and
Speaker 2: seconds and millimeters and this chord here. And so it
Speaker 2: tells me just to make sure that I'm grateful for
Speaker 2: every minute that I have and continue and being grateful
Speaker 2: and try to make the best of this thing and
Speaker 2: try to be as positive as I can, and you know,
Speaker 2: try to hopefully be better for the other people around
Speaker 2: me as well. Great.
Speaker 1: I mean, that feels like a sort of perfect sentiment
Speaker 1: upon which to sort of end this conversation. Jay, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time. Encourage everybody to go
Speaker 1: on and get their copy of Nine Innings to Living
Speaker 1: your Best Life. But if people if people haven't got that,
Speaker 1: where else can they keep.
Speaker 2: In touch with you? J?
Speaker 1: Where's the best place to keep up with your progress
Speaker 1: over the course of this season.
Speaker 2: The best place to keep up with me is Instagram.
Speaker 2: A little bit here on X it's gonna be We're
Speaker 2: gonna ramp up some more content and stuff coming up
Speaker 2: real soon hopefully, but it's gonna be on Instagram for sure.
Speaker 2: And then I'm gonna hopefully be having my Instagram, my
Speaker 2: personal Instagram page, of which is gonna be the Smiley
Speaker 2: j channel coming soon. But like I said, Instagram is
Speaker 2: gonna be the main place, and that's gonna be Jackslyne
Speaker 2: five eight j A X L A n D five eight.
Speaker 2: That's gonna be the best place to keep up with me.
Speaker 2: I normally try to keep some things on there, and
Speaker 2: you know, I run that one pretty much personally with
Speaker 2: some help of some assistance here and there. But you're
Speaker 2: gonna get a lot of me and more content for
Speaker 2: me than you probably are on any other platform until
Speaker 2: I get the get the YouTube, get the YouTube channel
Speaker 2: done from like, I think that's gonna be more of
Speaker 2: my adventure once my playing days they're done too, so
Speaker 2: as I continue to go through the playing days and
Speaker 2: work on like my training and rehab from last year
Speaker 2: and getting back to one hundred percent. Instagram is going
Speaker 2: to be the best place.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, well, we'll keep up with you that. We'll
Speaker 1: look forward to the Smiley J YouTube channel, uh, and
Speaker 1: we'll look forward to the autobiography I think, Jay, thank
Speaker 1: you so much for your time, and we'll see against
Speaker 1: Shining sounds good.
Speaker 2: I appreciate you guys, Chas Jay, no problem, thank you.
Speaker 2: I appreciate it. Not that was awesome. I appreciate