WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.160 --> 00:00:03.399 So I've got a list of It's maybe curious after 2 00:00:03.480 --> 00:00:06.320 talking to Jeff Johnson last segment of the best high 3 00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:10.039 school basketball players from the state of Utah historically and 4 00:00:10.039 --> 00:00:11.439 how many of them went to the NBA. 5 00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:13.119 It is a short list. 6 00:00:13.679 --> 00:00:16.600 So we were talking about the dynamic of how Alex 7 00:00:16.679 --> 00:00:19.320 Jensen goes about the process of building this roster for 8 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:21.280 the University of Utah. We'll get to this in a 9 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:23.359 little bit, but let's welcome to our friend Sarah Todd 10 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:26.719 from the des Red News, the two time Utah Sports 11 00:00:26.760 --> 00:00:27.359 Rider of the Year. 12 00:00:27.399 --> 00:00:29.120 On a Monday, Sarah, Happy Monday. How are you. 13 00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:34.560 I'm good? Justin Will practice today and so I've just 14 00:00:34.600 --> 00:00:38.640 been really lazy and continue to count down the hours 15 00:00:38.640 --> 00:00:40.240 and days until this season is over. 16 00:00:40.840 --> 00:00:44.240 Oh man, I tell you what I always feel. You know, 17 00:00:44.280 --> 00:00:46.200 you feel for a lot of people during the rebuild. 18 00:00:46.240 --> 00:00:48.000 You feel for the fans, you feel for a lot 19 00:00:48.000 --> 00:00:49.079 of the team employees. 20 00:00:49.759 --> 00:00:51.719 I feel really bad for Will Hardy. 21 00:00:51.799 --> 00:00:53.640 I think is a great coach, and I really hope 22 00:00:53.640 --> 00:00:55.799 before his contract is up we get to see him 23 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.200 coach a team with decent NBA players. But it's gotta 24 00:00:59.280 --> 00:01:02.880 be wearing on the beat, right, Like you Andy TJ, 25 00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:04.840 whoever else is on the beat, I always lose track. 26 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:08.519 But what what what's it like for somebody who's do 27 00:01:08.519 --> 00:01:10.680 you cover the Warriors? I mean, you're a beat writer 28 00:01:10.799 --> 00:01:11.799 for a rebuilding team. 29 00:01:11.799 --> 00:01:12.359 What's that like? 30 00:01:14.000 --> 00:01:16.920 Yeah? I mean I think I I think I'm experiencing 31 00:01:16.959 --> 00:01:22.519 the same fatigue that the fans are. I think I 32 00:01:22.519 --> 00:01:24.400 do feel bad for the players because I feel like 33 00:01:24.439 --> 00:01:27.519 they have to be feeling what I'm feeling at such 34 00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:33.799 an exponential level, but also are constantly being asked by 35 00:01:34.439 --> 00:01:38.920 the coaching staff and like their competitive souls to still 36 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:41.599 care every day. And I'm like sometimes, you know, I 37 00:01:41.640 --> 00:01:44.400 go into the arena to this like last stretch of 38 00:01:44.400 --> 00:01:47.120 the season, and I'm like, ugh, they're not gonna try. 39 00:01:47.159 --> 00:01:50.400 Why why do I need to try? Like I feel 40 00:01:50.400 --> 00:01:54.439 like throwing in the towel. But and there are a 41 00:01:54.439 --> 00:01:57.640 lot of times where I'm writing stories and I'm like, God, 42 00:01:57.719 --> 00:02:01.480 can I really write five more stories about how Isaiah 43 00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:03.640 Collier passes the ball? But can't choose, Like is that 44 00:02:03.680 --> 00:02:08.800 really what I'm writing today? Well? Yeah, it just sometimes 45 00:02:08.800 --> 00:02:11.080 feels like going through the motions. But I try to 46 00:02:11.319 --> 00:02:13.599 give myself a pep talk on game days. 47 00:02:13.919 --> 00:02:18.120 Yeah, Look, ultimately, our jobs rule, so we will not complain. 48 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.199 And I don't mean that we are, but you know, 49 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:22.400 I was down to my brother's house for dinner last 50 00:02:22.400 --> 00:02:25.159 week and he said, how many Jazz games have you 51 00:02:25.199 --> 00:02:26.599 been to this year? And I said, I think it's 52 00:02:26.599 --> 00:02:29.960 been like five or six. And the Celtics were going 53 00:02:29.960 --> 00:02:32.439 to roll into town. This is when before Boston came 54 00:02:32.479 --> 00:02:34.120 into town. He said, well, are you gonna go see 55 00:02:34.199 --> 00:02:36.639 the Celtics And I said, I said, you know what, 56 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:40.759 like no, and I live. I can get to the 57 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:43.199 arena in less than ten minutes with no traffic. I 58 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:45.360 have a media credential, I could get a free meal. 59 00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.960 And it's just like hard and it's not part of 60 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:50.639 my job, so I don't need to be there anymore. 61 00:02:50.719 --> 00:02:52.680 I mean, for seven years, I did preaff and post 62 00:02:52.680 --> 00:02:54.240 so I was there for every game, and I'm sure 63 00:02:54.280 --> 00:02:57.199 part of me not going as much as like, you know, 64 00:02:57.319 --> 00:02:59.960 for one hundred nights a year, I left that arena 65 00:03:00.039 --> 00:03:02.360 after midnight and I'm just not like into it anymore. 66 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.240 But it is it is tough to like, certainly. 67 00:03:05.960 --> 00:03:07.960 If it's not part of your job, even if you 68 00:03:08.000 --> 00:03:10.319 can go for free, it's just it's tough to motivate 69 00:03:10.360 --> 00:03:12.479 yourself to go when there's just not a lot of 70 00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:14.919 seriousness on the other side about winning. 71 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:20.039 Yeah, I think, And like you said, I'm I'm never 72 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:23.520 gonna like complain about the job, right, Like I get 73 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:25.800 paid to watch basketball, so like I know that my 74 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:28.919 life is good. So that is not what I'm saying. 75 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:29.280 At all, but. 76 00:03:30.919 --> 00:03:33.919 It's my job to write about it. And so you know, 77 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:38.039 we've got what ten eleven games left this season, and 78 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:40.800 at this point, like, I don't think that there's like 79 00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.039 any juice that I'm gonna squeeze out of this team 80 00:03:44.240 --> 00:03:47.520 that the fans don't know about, the watchers don't know about. 81 00:03:47.560 --> 00:03:50.080 Like I don't think that there's anything that I'm gonna 82 00:03:50.120 --> 00:03:53.479 illuminate that like people don't know because truly, the story 83 00:03:53.560 --> 00:03:55.719 right now is like what lottery pick or the Jat's 84 00:03:55.759 --> 00:03:59.120 gonna get. And so I think that everyone fans me, 85 00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:01.439 including like I'm counting down the days so I can 86 00:04:01.479 --> 00:04:04.560 get to the combine in Chicago and the lottery drawing night. 87 00:04:05.520 --> 00:04:06.960 When is that, by the way, is that the first 88 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.479 week of May. 89 00:04:08.360 --> 00:04:11.479 It's I think it's May twelfth is lottery night. So 90 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:13.240 and then the combine follows that. 91 00:04:14.199 --> 00:04:16.399 So I do have to say thank you. And you 92 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:20.079 probably don't know why, but when you or Andy or 93 00:04:20.079 --> 00:04:25.439 whoever writes a really compelling piece, it gives me topics 94 00:04:25.480 --> 00:04:27.720 and content on the show, because if we're honest to 95 00:04:27.759 --> 00:04:30.800 your earlier point, like hey, Kyle Philipowski's kind of like 96 00:04:30.879 --> 00:04:33.639 Kelly olynnok, like hey Isaiah call your can pass, but 97 00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:36.279 not you like how many how many times can we 98 00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.800 regurgitate the same old stuff and try to make it 99 00:04:38.839 --> 00:04:41.279 interesting for listeners? That and we have a very smart 100 00:04:41.319 --> 00:04:43.600 basketball fan based Jazz fans are smart. We've got high 101 00:04:43.639 --> 00:04:46.680 level basketball in this market for forty plus years. You 102 00:04:46.720 --> 00:04:50.120 can't fool them. But when you wrote the piece on 103 00:04:51.000 --> 00:04:53.720 I guess I'll just kind of reduce it down to, hey, 104 00:04:53.759 --> 00:04:56.920 this has been a tear down, and the rebuilt starts 105 00:04:56.959 --> 00:04:59.240 right now. I want to be clear, I am not 106 00:04:59.360 --> 00:05:01.959 knocking on you at all. I'm just knocking on that 107 00:05:02.040 --> 00:05:04.680 premise that, of course, is coming from the front office. 108 00:05:04.959 --> 00:05:06.720 I think it's a little bit silly, but I've been 109 00:05:06.759 --> 00:05:10.879 able to ask, like all my NBA guests directly crediting 110 00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:14.920 your piece about this whole idea that hey, guess what, fans, 111 00:05:14.920 --> 00:05:17.680 we have not been rebuilding. We have been tearing down 112 00:05:17.759 --> 00:05:21.199 and we're actually starting the rebuild. Now it's revisionist history. 113 00:05:21.319 --> 00:05:23.480 I don't buy it at all, but kind of take 114 00:05:23.560 --> 00:05:27.759 us into the background of this information and explain kind 115 00:05:27.759 --> 00:05:30.079 of this idea to a lot of fans who read 116 00:05:30.079 --> 00:05:30.480 your piece. 117 00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:35.120 Yeah, I think you know. The point of the piece 118 00:05:35.319 --> 00:05:39.160 was like I'm being honest with the fans about like 119 00:05:39.199 --> 00:05:41.519 what could be coming up over the next couple of years, 120 00:05:41.600 --> 00:05:44.439 and like kind of letting people know that, you know, 121 00:05:44.600 --> 00:05:47.199 pie in the sky, like what if the Jazz get 122 00:05:47.399 --> 00:05:51.160 Cooper flag and everything feels like puppies and rainbows in June, 123 00:05:51.879 --> 00:05:54.399 Is that mean that the Jazz are about to be good? Like, No, 124 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:57.480 that's actually like one of the first big pieces of 125 00:05:57.519 --> 00:06:02.600 the rebuild, Like the Jazz have this point, not gotten 126 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:07.680 acquired created any of like the really big foundational pieces 127 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:10.720 of what like the next era of Jazz basketball is 128 00:06:10.759 --> 00:06:14.079 going to be. And so like that's what they're still 129 00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:18.800 searching for. Lowry market In looks like a great piece 130 00:06:18.879 --> 00:06:21.439 to have and like could be a core piece of 131 00:06:22.319 --> 00:06:24.279 a team moving forward, but like, we don't even know 132 00:06:24.319 --> 00:06:26.120 if he's going to be a core piece of the 133 00:06:26.160 --> 00:06:28.199 team moving forward. We don't know what his future is 134 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:31.519 going to hold. Walker Kessler looks like a very good 135 00:06:31.560 --> 00:06:35.160 young player. We also don't know if that's going to 136 00:06:35.199 --> 00:06:38.160 be here in three five years. Like, we just don't 137 00:06:38.199 --> 00:06:41.920 know at this point. And until the Jazz gets someone 138 00:06:41.920 --> 00:06:45.439 where it's very clear like this is the franchise player, 139 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:48.240 this is the player that we're going to build everything around, 140 00:06:49.199 --> 00:06:53.759 then there is nothing to build, right And so that 141 00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:57.920 that's kind of the impetus on writing the story and yeah, 142 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:02.120 like getting to that, you know, talking to executives around 143 00:07:02.160 --> 00:07:05.800 the league, talking to executives within the Jazz, talking to 144 00:07:06.199 --> 00:07:10.720 coaching staff, talking to players, like it doesn't feel like 145 00:07:10.839 --> 00:07:14.800 any of them feel like they're on necessarily the rise 146 00:07:14.920 --> 00:07:17.279 right now, but that they're getting ready to be on 147 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:19.720 the rise. And so that that's kind of the lens 148 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:22.199 through all of it is like, Yeah, they've been working 149 00:07:22.279 --> 00:07:25.120 towards what could happen this summer and then even next 150 00:07:25.160 --> 00:07:28.079 summer during two of like the most highly touted drafts 151 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.920 of the last few years, and that's where they're hoping 152 00:07:31.959 --> 00:07:34.639 to find foundational pieces that can really take the Jazz 153 00:07:34.639 --> 00:07:35.399 into the next era. 154 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:43.120 Okay, so this just reeks out of a Hey, we 155 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:46.600 didn't do this the right way, because when you move 156 00:07:46.639 --> 00:07:49.759 on from your two stars and your coach walks away 157 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.560 and your general manager walks away, call me old fashioned Sarah, 158 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:56.720 that indicates you're starting a rebuild. And yes, a rebuild 159 00:07:56.759 --> 00:07:59.680 begins after you tear it down, but there's nothing more 160 00:08:00.319 --> 00:08:02.399 you know, indicative of a, hey, we're tearing this down, 161 00:08:02.439 --> 00:08:05.040 then moving on from two all stars that are in 162 00:08:05.079 --> 00:08:07.519 their prime and having your coach walk away and having 163 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:10.560 your general manager walk away, doesn't that indicate that, yes, okay, 164 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.199 we've we've started this process and now we've got to 165 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:14.040 build it back up. 166 00:08:14.079 --> 00:08:16.000 I mean, that's that's my takeaway. 167 00:08:16.680 --> 00:08:22.680 Yeah. Absolutely, Like you know, the sort of reporter one 168 00:08:22.720 --> 00:08:25.319 oh one version of the article that like we're talking 169 00:08:25.319 --> 00:08:28.279 about from this right, that's just like, hey, these are 170 00:08:28.319 --> 00:08:31.920 the facts. This is how the teardown happened, and this 171 00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:34.799 is how fans can expect for the rebuild to go 172 00:08:34.919 --> 00:08:38.600 for the next few years. Now. The Sarah Todd column 173 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:41.200 version of that is like, yeah, they messed up. They 174 00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.360 didn't get rid of Mike Conley fast enough. They had 175 00:08:43.440 --> 00:08:45.639 Kelly o Linnok on the team with Lowry Market and 176 00:08:45.679 --> 00:08:48.399 a Walker Castler, and that looked too good for too long. 177 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:50.840 They should have been selling off parts faster than that. 178 00:08:50.919 --> 00:08:53.080 It's not like they didn't know that Mike Conley was 179 00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:57.559 good at basketball. Like it could have been worse, sooner 180 00:08:57.840 --> 00:09:01.639 for the better, right, Like not tanking to the absolute 181 00:09:01.639 --> 00:09:04.120 bottom to try during a Victor Wimbin Yama year was 182 00:09:04.159 --> 00:09:07.559 probably a failure. And so like, yeah, the column and 183 00:09:07.919 --> 00:09:10.559 Sarah tat opinion version of that is like the teardown 184 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:16.120 took too long, and instead of trying to have one 185 00:09:16.159 --> 00:09:20.639 of the foundational pieces now and tanking really hard over 186 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:23.440 the last couple three years rather than just last, the 187 00:09:23.559 --> 00:09:27.360 last year would have looked really good in terms of 188 00:09:27.759 --> 00:09:30.679 kind of the the in house assets you could have 189 00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:34.799 gotten through the draft, and that's just not where we 190 00:09:34.840 --> 00:09:36.240 are and it's not what happened. 191 00:09:36.879 --> 00:09:38.879 Let me kick the tires with you on this, because 192 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.000 to your point about some of the good players, you know, 193 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:45.679 like Lowry All starred two years ago, I was ryd people. 194 00:09:45.799 --> 00:09:47.799 He played the first portion of that season with Mike. 195 00:09:48.440 --> 00:09:50.720 You know, he had grown ups with him, and that's 196 00:09:50.759 --> 00:09:53.639 why he looked the way he looked then. Juck's opposed 197 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:55.480 to the way he looks now. He's playing with kids. 198 00:09:55.480 --> 00:09:59.240 He's playing with children's It's completely understandable that Lowry has 199 00:09:59.279 --> 00:10:00.960 not been the same place he was two years ago, 200 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:03.120 and I don't think any of it's his fault. But 201 00:10:03.279 --> 00:10:08.000 over the course of their semi competitive Conley olynic As 202 00:10:08.039 --> 00:10:11.799 you outlined some good NBA vets, I heard rumors. We 203 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:14.039 all heard the Drew Holliday rumor. I mean, hell, Bobby 204 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:17.000 Marks came on this radio show and said the Jazz 205 00:10:17.080 --> 00:10:19.879 had a deal in place for Drew Holliday, that Portland liked, 206 00:10:20.360 --> 00:10:22.799 Drew just wanted to play in Boston, which you understand 207 00:10:22.799 --> 00:10:24.279 because now he's an NBA champion. 208 00:10:24.320 --> 00:10:25.360 It might be again this year. 209 00:10:26.240 --> 00:10:30.159 I know that Ryan Smith has spoken publicly about the 210 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:32.279 fact that he thought they had a deal for Christaps 211 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:35.559 Porzingis from Dallas. There are other rumors that throughout the 212 00:10:35.559 --> 00:10:38.039 course of when they were just kind of semi competitive, 213 00:10:38.279 --> 00:10:41.639 they were making in roads to exhibide this growth with 214 00:10:41.720 --> 00:10:43.679 some very good players. Any insight as to whether or 215 00:10:43.720 --> 00:10:48.120 not they were close at all with any of those deals. 216 00:10:48.080 --> 00:10:54.799 I mean close is that's an interesting word, an operative word, right, 217 00:10:55.039 --> 00:10:59.320 like like sure, I think there were deals on the 218 00:10:59.360 --> 00:11:03.279 table that the Jazz could have said yes, or no 219 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:05.159 to and then some of those deals they said no 220 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:08.200 to them because they didn't like the offer that was 221 00:11:08.240 --> 00:11:11.200 on the table, and so like, I think that they 222 00:11:11.240 --> 00:11:13.919 were close and that if if the Jazz or the 223 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:17.639 other teams involved would have said yes, that something would 224 00:11:17.639 --> 00:11:22.440 have happened. But it's I mean, that can be a 225 00:11:22.480 --> 00:11:24.759 little bit revision as history too, and then we could 226 00:11:24.799 --> 00:11:27.279 go down the road of like with Drew Holliday have 227 00:11:27.360 --> 00:11:31.120 actually been good for this team. I mean, like you're 228 00:11:32.679 --> 00:11:34.519 I think that part of the problem is when we're 229 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:37.840 looking at like what all of all of possibilities and 230 00:11:37.879 --> 00:11:41.080 what could have been, Like the Jazz had uh put 231 00:11:41.080 --> 00:11:43.759 feelers out trying to go after mckail Bridges, the Jazz 232 00:11:43.799 --> 00:11:46.879 had put feelers out about to Holiday, about Paul George, 233 00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:50.679 about a number of players, and I don't think that 234 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:53.480 if you survey the landscape of the NBA right now, 235 00:11:53.759 --> 00:11:56.720 if any of those players have actually come to Utah, 236 00:11:56.919 --> 00:11:59.080 that it would have fixed anything or even given the 237 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:01.559 Jazz a team that could be competitive in the West. 238 00:12:01.679 --> 00:12:06.000 And so their failures on that are actually probably good 239 00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:10.120 for the longevity and future of the team. That being said, 240 00:12:12.480 --> 00:12:16.039 trying to make those deals and thinking that they could 241 00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:17.919 help is also probably a failure. 242 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:23.000 Yeah, yeah, well said, and I referenced earlier about you know, 243 00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:28.240 feeling bad for team employees, feeling bad for fans, feeling 244 00:12:28.279 --> 00:12:30.519 bad for beat riders, and then feeling bad for Will 245 00:12:30.559 --> 00:12:34.840 Hardy and you recently wrote a piece on Will choosing 246 00:12:34.879 --> 00:12:37.159 the Jazz as a result of Danny Ainge and his 247 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:40.600 track record. And as I've said before, Danny doesn't need 248 00:12:40.639 --> 00:12:42.000 me to stand up for him. You can go look 249 00:12:42.039 --> 00:12:44.279 at his track record. As I mean, when you look 250 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:48.840 at Danny Ainge and his resume in pro basketball, it's 251 00:12:48.879 --> 00:12:51.399 a really short list. It's guys like Pat Riley, and 252 00:12:51.440 --> 00:12:54.679 it's guys like Jerry West who have been great players, 253 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:56.919 and they've coached, and they've been in front offices. He 254 00:12:56.919 --> 00:12:58.559 even did a little media and he was really good 255 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.879 at it. And I he's often just wonder aloud where 256 00:13:02.919 --> 00:13:05.679 Will's head at is at here he has two years 257 00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:08.360 left on his deal. It's a very rare thing for 258 00:13:08.440 --> 00:13:10.600 head coach to have two separate options picked up. And 259 00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:13.639 that's where we're at because they obviously think very highly 260 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:17.360 of him. But I do wonder if this plan does 261 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:19.720 not come to fruition and the luck is not on 262 00:13:19.759 --> 00:13:22.720 the Jazz side. And we're sitting here in March of 263 00:13:22.799 --> 00:13:27.000 twenty twenty seven and the Jazz are once again spinning 264 00:13:27.039 --> 00:13:30.360 their wheels with no real positive tangible direction forward. What 265 00:13:30.399 --> 00:13:32.279 that means for this head coach? They could go get 266 00:13:32.320 --> 00:13:35.639 another job tomorrow. So illuminate us a little bit on 267 00:13:35.759 --> 00:13:38.080 this process and what Will said to you about why 268 00:13:38.120 --> 00:13:40.000 you chose Utah And do you think he's long for 269 00:13:40.039 --> 00:13:42.879 this job even if in two years they're not giving 270 00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:45.440 him the horses he enters Jim's most night just behind 271 00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:45.879 the eight ball. 272 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:49.840 Yeah, I mean, when Will Hardy took this job, he 273 00:13:49.919 --> 00:13:52.039 knew what the assignment was like. It wasn't going to 274 00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:55.759 be a secret. I think at that point they hadn't 275 00:13:55.960 --> 00:14:00.559 traded Donovan Mitchell yet when he took the job, but 276 00:14:01.159 --> 00:14:04.440 he knew that that was a possibility, a probability, and 277 00:14:04.720 --> 00:14:07.519 that he was probably going to be a coach of 278 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.519 a team that was going to be going on a rebuild. 279 00:14:10.960 --> 00:14:15.639 And so it's not like I've used this comparison before. 280 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:19.240 When Steven Silas took the job for the Houston Rocket, 281 00:14:19.399 --> 00:14:22.799 that was a James Harden team with some incoming young 282 00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.919 players that looked like they were going to be fresh 283 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:30.080 and ready to help, and within a few weeks, I mean, 284 00:14:30.320 --> 00:14:32.840 Harden is forcing his way out, not showing up to 285 00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:35.000 training camp, and then you have a ton of young 286 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:37.080 guys that have no direction. That is not the job 287 00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:41.559 that Steven Silas signed up for. And so that's that's 288 00:14:41.639 --> 00:14:43.840 kind of the opposite end of the spectrum here, where 289 00:14:43.879 --> 00:14:46.080 like Will Hardy knew that this is what was going 290 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:48.519 to happen. And so I think that that's not to 291 00:14:48.559 --> 00:14:51.360 say that he is not fatigued, that he is not 292 00:14:51.519 --> 00:14:53.600 hoping to see a light at the end of the tunnel, right, 293 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:57.840 but looking at a job where it's probably going to rebuild, 294 00:14:57.919 --> 00:14:59.759 it's probably going to take a lot of time and 295 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:01.840 is going to be a lot of hard knights and 296 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:06.519 struggles and fatigue, I think that that Will was ready 297 00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.159 for that and knew it and also looked across the 298 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:14.600 table and was like understood the vision that Ryan, Danny 299 00:15:14.919 --> 00:15:18.360 Justin Zanik all had and trusted that they were going 300 00:15:18.399 --> 00:15:20.679 to be able to pull it off. And so then 301 00:15:21.759 --> 00:15:24.639 what we have to wonder is then at what point 302 00:15:24.799 --> 00:15:27.200 does he continue believing that they can pull it off 303 00:15:27.279 --> 00:15:29.159 or does he lose face that they can pull it off, 304 00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:31.799 and so I think that that's what we're talking about 305 00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:36.080 kind of in the two to three year stretch from now. 306 00:15:37.200 --> 00:15:42.120 And you're right, like Will Hardy is well respected. He's 307 00:15:42.159 --> 00:15:47.120 well regarded across the league, especially by a lot of 308 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.120 the younger coaches in the league who are successful, and 309 00:15:50.159 --> 00:15:51.960 they look at Will and they think that he is 310 00:15:52.039 --> 00:15:55.200 one of the brightest coaches in the league. And so 311 00:15:55.799 --> 00:15:58.960 he could get a coach tomorrow, or he could get 312 00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:01.759 a coaching job somewhere else tomorrow. And you're right about that. 313 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:05.799 And I think that that's one of the big questions 314 00:16:06.639 --> 00:16:11.720 going forward is how long is Will Hardy going to 315 00:16:11.799 --> 00:16:14.120 be able to stick with it? And I think that 316 00:16:14.919 --> 00:16:18.039 because he signed up for it, that there's probably a 317 00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:21.159 longer holding pattern there that he can hang on to. 318 00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:24.360 But it is something to pay attention to. 319 00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:27.559 So let's operate off a fun hypothetical. 320 00:16:27.720 --> 00:16:30.960 Let's say Sarah Todd is at the draft lottery on 321 00:16:31.039 --> 00:16:33.480 May twelfth and for the first time, Lady Luck shines 322 00:16:33.519 --> 00:16:36.480 on the Jazz and they grab number one, and Cooper 323 00:16:36.480 --> 00:16:38.879 Flagg suddenly is a jazz man. And I keep saying 324 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:40.919 to the listeners, if you have not watched Cooper flag. 325 00:16:40.960 --> 00:16:44.399 You should because he's very good, and he's very exciting. 326 00:16:44.440 --> 00:16:46.600 He pops right off the screen and he will be 327 00:16:46.639 --> 00:16:49.519 good right away, even for a player that should be 328 00:16:49.519 --> 00:16:50.480 a senior in high school. 329 00:16:50.480 --> 00:16:52.440 He turned eighteen in December. It's wild. 330 00:16:52.600 --> 00:16:55.960 Okay, So if that happens, Sarah, as you outline in 331 00:16:56.000 --> 00:16:59.679 your piece, a couple of directions. Direction one is marketing 332 00:17:00.279 --> 00:17:02.720 Cooper flag your front court. All Right, we got something here, 333 00:17:02.879 --> 00:17:05.400 and you know, depending on what they do around them, 334 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:08.640 that's a team that probably is not bottom three or 335 00:17:08.680 --> 00:17:11.400 bottom five next year. But it doesn't mean they're top 336 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:14.039 three or five either. They're probably in the middle. So 337 00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:17.319 the other option is to say, all right, the rebuild 338 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:19.720 starts now with his eighteen year old and this is 339 00:17:19.759 --> 00:17:24.160 our timeline starting with him, which means nobody's safe, including Walker. 340 00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:26.960 And it's wild to consider because Walker is really good 341 00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:30.119 and really young. But if the jazz land Cooper flag, 342 00:17:30.359 --> 00:17:31.680 what does next year look like? 343 00:17:33.119 --> 00:17:35.119 Yeah, I mean, if you're looking at the twenty twenty 344 00:17:35.119 --> 00:17:37.640 sixth draft, I'd say that next year is probably going 345 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:39.759 to look a lot like this year. And if you 346 00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.200 think about other really young players, I think you know 347 00:17:43.359 --> 00:17:45.839 it's not a stretch. I don't think that this is 348 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:48.200 a hot take to say that Cooper Flag is not 349 00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:52.799 as good as Victor Wimbinyama and the Spurs. It's not 350 00:17:52.839 --> 00:17:55.799 like they made the playoffs in Victor's first couple of years. 351 00:17:55.839 --> 00:17:57.839 And yes, Victor's out for the rest of the season 352 00:17:58.079 --> 00:18:00.880 and there was some health issue there. But we've also 353 00:18:00.960 --> 00:18:04.559 seen that you can very easily sit players a number 354 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:08.960 of games and tank your way into another lottery situation. 355 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:13.279 And so I would expect for the Jazz to continue 356 00:18:13.279 --> 00:18:18.440 to want either Ajda Banza, Darren Peterson, maybe Cameron Boozer 357 00:18:18.759 --> 00:18:20.200 if they can get into the top three of the 358 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.519 twenty twenty six drafts. That's what I fully expect. And 359 00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.920 if you have Cooper Lowry Walker on the same team 360 00:18:27.960 --> 00:18:29.599 and it looks like it's going to be too good, 361 00:18:29.759 --> 00:18:31.440 then you probably have to get rid of one of 362 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:36.519 those players, and or you have to really really manage 363 00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.440 the injury report in even a more remarkable way than 364 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:42.680 the Jazz have done this season. Right now, that's what 365 00:18:42.720 --> 00:18:45.119 I expect to happen. If the Jazz were to get 366 00:18:45.119 --> 00:18:47.440 Cooper Flag, I don't expect for them to try to 367 00:18:47.480 --> 00:18:51.160 start getting into the playoffs right away. Probably wouldn't be 368 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:54.039 able to do that with Cooper Flag and this roster anyways, 369 00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:57.079 And so I would expect for more moves to be 370 00:18:57.160 --> 00:18:59.160 made and for the Jazz to try and get into 371 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:00.480 the lottery again next year. 372 00:19:01.440 --> 00:19:05.319 Cody Williams is twenty years old, and you know he 373 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:09.000 is a young player on a team that's not serious 374 00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.640 about winning. So I'm not trying to judge him too harshly. 375 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.599 I'm just trying to be honest about what you would 376 00:19:14.680 --> 00:19:17.960 like to see from a player drafted where he was drafted, 377 00:19:18.039 --> 00:19:20.480 and he spent some time with the Stars and there 378 00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:22.279 were some bright moments, but not enough. 379 00:19:22.359 --> 00:19:24.359 I mean, when you have a top ten pick, if. 380 00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:25.759 You sent him down to the G League, you want 381 00:19:25.839 --> 00:19:27.920 like thirty and fifteen every night. 382 00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:28.920 You want him to dominate. 383 00:19:29.559 --> 00:19:32.240 And he's received more playing time as of late, and 384 00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:34.880 it just hasn't looked good. What's fair to say year one, 385 00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:38.079 twenty year old Cody Williams, and have you changed your 386 00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:40.240 calculus on who he can be in this league? 387 00:19:42.599 --> 00:19:45.160 I have. I was probably a lot higher on him 388 00:19:45.279 --> 00:19:49.640 before and during the draft process, and coming into this season, 389 00:19:50.960 --> 00:19:54.480 what I've seen is it's really rough, Like there's not 390 00:19:54.920 --> 00:19:57.519 really any way to Sugarcoat that it's been a really 391 00:19:57.599 --> 00:20:00.160 rough season for Cody, And I think that some of 392 00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:05.160 the things that you thought about him during the draft process, right, like, 393 00:20:05.200 --> 00:20:10.680 he's able to kind of disappear during a game, but 394 00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:13.960 not in a negative way, make an impact, do really 395 00:20:14.000 --> 00:20:20.079 smart things, still score and just look very smart and 396 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.720 not look like he was trying to take over, but 397 00:20:22.920 --> 00:20:25.160 still making all of the right moves. That's kind of 398 00:20:25.200 --> 00:20:28.519 the player profile that he had coming into the season. 399 00:20:29.200 --> 00:20:32.359 And I think that the problem is that now Cody 400 00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:35.920 Williams disappears during a game and not in a positive way. 401 00:20:36.079 --> 00:20:39.559