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True Murder The most 20 00:01:14.439 --> 00:01:17.840 shocking killers in true crime history and the authors that 21 00:01:17.879 --> 00:01:24.120 have written about them Gaesy Bundy Dahmer, The Nightstalker DTK 22 00:01:25.000 --> 00:01:28.840 every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking 23 00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:33.120 and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with 24 00:01:33.159 --> 00:01:49.599 your host journalist and author Dan Zufanski, Good Evening, Elliott 25 00:01:49.680 --> 00:01:55.200 Roger considered himself to be intelligent, refined, handsome, fashionable, and charming. 26 00:01:56.040 --> 00:01:58.439 He spent years trying to be cool so women would 27 00:01:58.519 --> 00:02:02.599 like him. Aught if he just wore expensive and fashionable clothing, 28 00:02:03.159 --> 00:02:05.560 had a better car, or if he were rich, then 29 00:02:05.640 --> 00:02:08.840 women would throw themselves at him. In fact, he thought 30 00:02:08.879 --> 00:02:13.120 himself to be the supreme gentleman, yet women paid no 31 00:02:13.199 --> 00:02:16.520 attention to him. His only conclusion was that they were 32 00:02:16.560 --> 00:02:20.000 genetically flawed, and because of this they ignored him and 33 00:02:20.039 --> 00:02:24.360 threw themselves at men who were ignorant savage brutes. In 34 00:02:24.400 --> 00:02:27.000 his mind, his lack of success with women had ruined 35 00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:33.080 his life. He started to psychologically deteriorate. Roger decided to 36 00:02:33.120 --> 00:02:36.919 get revenge. He spent months planning his day of retribution 37 00:02:37.479 --> 00:02:39.840 and act where he would kill as many attractive women 38 00:02:40.680 --> 00:02:42.639 and the type of men that were drawn to they 39 00:02:42.639 --> 00:02:45.159 were drawn to as he could in a savage attack. 40 00:02:46.479 --> 00:02:49.120 Then he acted on his plan, killing six people and 41 00:02:49.159 --> 00:02:52.879 wounding numerous others in what became known as the Isla 42 00:02:53.000 --> 00:02:57.400 Vista Massacre. The story does not end with Roger, however, 43 00:02:58.039 --> 00:03:04.039 as numerous other inceels have since committed copycat attacks. The 44 00:03:04.080 --> 00:03:07.680 Supreme Gentleman Killer by Brian Whitney is the story of 45 00:03:07.759 --> 00:03:11.280 Elliott Roger in how he turned from a nice, quiet, 46 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:14.960 polite young man to the first self identified in cell 47 00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:20.199 involuntarily celibate killer. The book that we're featuring this evening 48 00:03:20.759 --> 00:03:24.360 is The Supreme Gentleman Killer, The Story of an INCEL 49 00:03:24.479 --> 00:03:29.120 mass murderer, with my special guest, journalist and author Brian Whitney. 50 00:03:29.599 --> 00:03:32.680 Welcome back to the program. Brian Whitney, Hey. 51 00:03:32.560 --> 00:03:33.520 Dan, thanks so much. 52 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:38.800 Thank you very much for coming to this program again 53 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:44.439 with a very very interesting case. I have to say, 54 00:03:45.319 --> 00:03:49.280 how did you come to give us these circumstances and 55 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:53.400 the whys and hows of how you came to be 56 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:54.560 the author of this book. 57 00:03:56.360 --> 00:03:59.280 Well, I have, actually I always been very interested in 58 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:04.960 the case, even when the massacre first happened and in 59 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:10.360 cells sort of became a more popularized, popularized term. It's 60 00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:12.960 something that I've that I've always been interested in, and 61 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.240 I've also always been a little confused. Why is no 62 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:19.480 one's ever written a book about about Elliott Roger before, 63 00:04:19.839 --> 00:04:23.560 because his case, to me is so fascinating. So I 64 00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.319 just pitched it to uh to wild Blue, who I've 65 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:29.639 published a lot with, and they were interested in the idea, 66 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:31.920 so I so I sat down and wrote it. And 67 00:04:32.000 --> 00:04:37.800 also he Elliott wrote a manifesto called My Twisted World, 68 00:04:39.079 --> 00:04:42.040 which you know, gives access to a lot of his 69 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:46.079 thoughts about why and how he did what he did. 70 00:04:46.160 --> 00:04:49.360 So the whole thing has this always been very interesting 71 00:04:49.399 --> 00:04:49.600 to me. 72 00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:58.199 Let's talk about Elliott Roger is a very very interesting background, 73 00:04:58.319 --> 00:05:02.360 and of course you lay out every bit of his 74 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:09.120 background and the psychology that enveloped some him in his life. 75 00:05:09.839 --> 00:05:12.519 Let's talk about his background, where he grew up, what 76 00:05:12.600 --> 00:05:16.839 were his parents like, what happened with that his parents marriage? 77 00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:18.120 Tell us about that. 78 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:24.600 Sure, he was born in England from a wealthy family. 79 00:05:26.399 --> 00:05:28.959 Moved to America at a very young age. His father's 80 00:05:29.079 --> 00:05:32.600 name is Peter Roger, and he's a he's a director. 81 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.720 He was an assistant director on The Hunger Games and 82 00:05:35.839 --> 00:05:38.879 he did his own independent movie called Oh My God 83 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:42.040 a few years later. His mother, her name is Chen, 84 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:45.920 she had been she had dated George Lucas in the past. 85 00:05:47.519 --> 00:05:49.160 So he was from a you know, he's from a 86 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.000 family that had some money, moved to America so his 87 00:05:53.079 --> 00:05:58.839 father could advance his career and film. He's a very shy, 88 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.639 very very kid, and he was always sort of obsessed 89 00:06:01.680 --> 00:06:05.360 with status and wealth and things of that nature, even 90 00:06:05.399 --> 00:06:07.720 when he was very young. And his time went on, 91 00:06:09.240 --> 00:06:11.279 I could, I could talk for about ten minutes on 92 00:06:11.360 --> 00:06:13.519 his piece, but I'm sure you'll have a follow up, Preston. 93 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.079 But his time went on, he became more and more 94 00:06:17.199 --> 00:06:20.879 lost in a world where he felt that he didn't 95 00:06:20.879 --> 00:06:24.759 have any status, whether it be even in elementary school, 96 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:28.279 he felt that way any social status. Junior high school 97 00:06:28.319 --> 00:06:32.279 that increased, high school that increased even more. Women weren't 98 00:06:32.279 --> 00:06:35.279 interested in him. Girls weren't interested in him. And he 99 00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:38.240 was a very lonely, shy kid who kind of went 100 00:06:38.279 --> 00:06:44.920 off into fantasy a lot. 101 00:06:42.279 --> 00:06:46.759 His parents, though he seemed to be traumatized and was 102 00:06:46.800 --> 00:06:52.240 traumatized by many things, including his parents' divorce at the 103 00:06:52.279 --> 00:06:55.519 fairly early age. Right tell us about that, but also 104 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.759 tell us that this idea of privilege and his parents divorcing. 105 00:06:59.800 --> 00:07:05.000 But he did grow up in the upper middle class, 106 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:09.279 so that afforded him certain things that I think, if 107 00:07:09.319 --> 00:07:12.959 you look through this entire story, certainly had some contribution 108 00:07:13.519 --> 00:07:16.879 in terms of some of his mindset even early on. 109 00:07:17.279 --> 00:07:20.199 Tell us about something that some things about the private 110 00:07:20.199 --> 00:07:22.199 schools that he attended, and why. 111 00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.560 Yeah, and he was traumatized by a lot of things. 112 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:29.000 But it's also interesting that a lot of things that 113 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:33.199 he was traumatized by were not things that they were 114 00:07:33.199 --> 00:07:37.759 difficult things, but they weren't things that would cause most 115 00:07:37.839 --> 00:07:41.319 people to be as traumatized as he was by them, 116 00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.439 I would say. But his parents divorced when he was young. 117 00:07:45.000 --> 00:07:49.800 His father remarried rather quickly with a woman named Sumaya, 118 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:55.639 who was a very attractive woman, an actress. Elliott he 119 00:07:55.680 --> 00:07:58.199 always was closer to his mom and his dad, so 120 00:07:58.240 --> 00:08:00.600 then he started going back and forth between two houses. 121 00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:05.639 His father lived in a bunch of different areas of California, 122 00:08:05.720 --> 00:08:08.560 but they were all very upper class areas, you know, 123 00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:11.079 with the swimming pool and the balconies and so on 124 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.240 and so forth. His mom lived in an apartment at 125 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:17.040 one point, and Ellie was very upset by that, you know, 126 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.040 that he had to live in a you know, what 127 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:22.879 he considered to be like a poor environment, which his 128 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:26.519 mother definitely was not poor, but in his mind she 129 00:08:26.839 --> 00:08:30.759 was so, and that definitely had had a lot to 130 00:08:30.800 --> 00:08:33.320 do with that. He also though thought his father, because 131 00:08:33.399 --> 00:08:35.960 his father almost immediately married, He thought his father was 132 00:08:36.080 --> 00:08:39.559 very powerful because he could attract such an attractive woman 133 00:08:39.679 --> 00:08:44.519 so soon. So, you know, he and he did go 134 00:08:44.559 --> 00:08:47.519 to a lot of different private schools as he was 135 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:50.399 growing up, which each school he hated more than the 136 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:54.320 last one. His parents would remove him from one school 137 00:08:54.360 --> 00:08:58.120 and then put him in another school. He would just, 138 00:08:58.200 --> 00:09:01.360 in his words, he would be paralyzed with fear at 139 00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.000 school and he wouldn't dare to talk to anybody. But 140 00:09:04.039 --> 00:09:07.840 at the same point, this is what makes him really interesting. 141 00:09:08.879 --> 00:09:11.480 At the same point, even as he was paralyzed by fear, 142 00:09:11.519 --> 00:09:14.840 wouldn't there to talk to anybody. He always thought that 143 00:09:15.000 --> 00:09:18.080 he was better and he couldn't understand why these women 144 00:09:18.080 --> 00:09:20.960 weren't attracted these girls weren't attracted to him. He couldn't 145 00:09:21.000 --> 00:09:24.240 understand why they were attracted to these jocks, these guys 146 00:09:24.240 --> 00:09:29.320 that he thought were brutish sort of slobs. So it 147 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:34.559 just became this rather unique thing with him where he 148 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:37.840 did have all these privileges and he had you know, 149 00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:40.360 he was a decent looking guy, and he had a 150 00:09:40.399 --> 00:09:42.320 lot of money and had good clothes. 151 00:09:41.919 --> 00:09:42.080 But. 152 00:09:44.440 --> 00:09:47.480 At the same point, at the same point, he couldn't 153 00:09:47.519 --> 00:09:51.399 reconcile his reality to what to what his thoughts were 154 00:09:51.440 --> 00:09:54.440 about what should be happening in his life. 155 00:09:55.360 --> 00:09:59.200 He also developed with the divorce and the dynamics of 156 00:09:59.240 --> 00:10:03.720 the relationship hips that ensued from that, especially with Somaya, 157 00:10:04.279 --> 00:10:10.679 that he didn't he didn't respect and appreciate the discipline 158 00:10:10.759 --> 00:10:13.639 or her disciplining him at all, and later that becomes 159 00:10:13.639 --> 00:10:17.159 important when she disciplines him and takes away the biggest 160 00:10:17.240 --> 00:10:21.320 joy of his life at that time. What is the 161 00:10:21.399 --> 00:10:23.960 dynamic that he sees at first he sees his father 162 00:10:24.159 --> 00:10:27.840 powerful and that he was able to attract this beautiful woman. 163 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:33.320 Where does how does he develop these ideas of weakness 164 00:10:33.759 --> 00:10:37.399 and power? How does he come to that at such 165 00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:39.440 an early age? Where does that come from? 166 00:10:39.679 --> 00:10:44.000 You think, I mean, that's that's a good question. He's 167 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:46.960 very he's very complicated. He was a very complicated guy. 168 00:10:47.000 --> 00:10:52.440 So somayas from Morocco. He did Elliott when he retreated. 169 00:10:52.480 --> 00:10:55.639 There's lots of people do There's lots of young teenagers 170 00:10:55.679 --> 00:10:58.440 do and he retreated into a world of video games. 171 00:10:58.480 --> 00:11:00.759 In particularly, he was very in the World of Warcraft 172 00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:03.600 and he played World of Warcraft all the time, and 173 00:11:03.799 --> 00:11:06.440 Sumaya would try to limit his time on the game, 174 00:11:06.559 --> 00:11:09.440 and she would she would discipline him in other ways. 175 00:11:09.440 --> 00:11:11.320 She would try to force him to go outside and 176 00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:14.120 play with other kids in the neighborhood, and Elliott just 177 00:11:14.159 --> 00:11:17.480 didn't want to do that. And occasionally, one time they 178 00:11:17.480 --> 00:11:19.840 made him to go to Morocco in the summer with her, 179 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:22.120 which meant he couldn't play World of Warcraft at all, 180 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:24.879 and he thought of Morocco as like a third World country. 181 00:11:26.559 --> 00:11:29.840 And and so there were a lot of issues with 182 00:11:29.840 --> 00:11:32.960 with Elliott and his stepmother because she did end up 183 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:37.080 marrying Peter's father, And there were also a lot of 184 00:11:37.120 --> 00:11:40.039 issues with him why he didn't understand why he is 185 00:11:40.120 --> 00:11:43.840 Peter's son. Was was you know, forced to be secondary 186 00:11:43.879 --> 00:11:48.360 to this, to this woman in his life and that 187 00:11:48.519 --> 00:11:53.559 definitely he definitely And he also it should be said 188 00:11:53.879 --> 00:11:55.879 that at this point, when he was young, they also 189 00:11:55.960 --> 00:11:58.840 did bring him to psychiatrists and he had some diagnoses 190 00:11:58.879 --> 00:12:01.639 that he was on the autism spectrum, but it never 191 00:12:01.759 --> 00:12:06.840 was really that clear how far they went with that, 192 00:12:07.039 --> 00:12:10.759 and in fact, his father, Peter was sort of like, 193 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:12.840 I don't think he really is autistic. He thought he 194 00:12:12.879 --> 00:12:15.600 was as shy. His mother definitely thought he was autistic. 195 00:12:15.679 --> 00:12:18.440 And there were differing viewpoints from psychiatrists at that time, 196 00:12:18.480 --> 00:12:21.480 so they were aware that there were some issues and 197 00:12:21.480 --> 00:12:23.240 they were trying to get him help, but no one 198 00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:28.960 ever was aware even slightly of how deeply he was 199 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.639 going astray. When he was young, right now. 200 00:12:34.519 --> 00:12:37.320 He developed this sort of philosophy and you touched on 201 00:12:37.360 --> 00:12:42.480 it about him being inferior in certain ways, but then 202 00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:49.720 also he had a pretty optimistic and positive self image 203 00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:54.759 which contributed, which he thought he was very handsome, tell 204 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:56.879 us some of the things that he thought he had 205 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.399 that were inferior and some of the things that he 206 00:12:59.440 --> 00:13:02.840 thought were superior, and the things he and this was 207 00:13:02.879 --> 00:13:04.600 at an early age, in elementary school. 208 00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:11.519 Yeah, at a very very young age. He was aware, 209 00:13:11.559 --> 00:13:13.200 at least in his mind. I mean this is in 210 00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:16.120 his mind. He was shorter than most other kids. He 211 00:13:16.200 --> 00:13:20.960 wasn't particularly athletic. He noticed even that he took him 212 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:23.960 longer to swing on a swing. Kids younger than him 213 00:13:23.960 --> 00:13:27.440 could swing, and he still would have his father put him. 214 00:13:27.960 --> 00:13:31.679 He really hated that he was short. He used to 215 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:34.440 lay down on the ground and just try to stretch 216 00:13:34.480 --> 00:13:38.279 to make himself taller. He tried to play basketball to 217 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.720 make himself taller because he as a young child, he 218 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:42.720 thought that that would make him tall as opposed to 219 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:46.559 the tall people played basketball. He became obsessed at one 220 00:13:46.559 --> 00:13:50.799 point with skateboarding because he thought if he could skateboard, 221 00:13:50.840 --> 00:13:52.799 he'd be cool, and he dyed his hair blonde. This 222 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:55.120 is when he's like in sixth or seventh grade. He 223 00:13:55.200 --> 00:13:57.600 dyed his hair blonde, and he's like, Oh, if I 224 00:13:57.840 --> 00:13:59.720 learned to skateboard and my hair is blonde, then I'll 225 00:13:59.720 --> 00:14:02.799 be like everyone will think I'm cool. But then other 226 00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:05.159 kids were better at him in skateboarding, so he just 227 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:08.200 quit skateboarding. So this is kind of a theme throughout 228 00:14:08.279 --> 00:14:13.120 his life. This these inferior things, but he considered himself 229 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:19.519 completely intellectually superior to just about everybody. The title of 230 00:14:19.559 --> 00:14:21.720 the book, The Supreme Gentleman, is sort of a theme 231 00:14:22.159 --> 00:14:25.960 throughout his life because in his writings he constantly refers 232 00:14:26.000 --> 00:14:29.679 to himself as him being a gentleman of class and tastes, 233 00:14:30.720 --> 00:14:33.639 and these other men that are boys, that women or 234 00:14:33.679 --> 00:14:37.960 girls are attracted to are slobs inferior to him, and 235 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.840 he's very confused as to why these these young women 236 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:45.879 or girls. I keep mixing that term up because this 237 00:14:45.960 --> 00:14:47.679 goes all the way from me. He's like, you know, 238 00:14:48.000 --> 00:14:53.639 twelve until sure, until the end of his life. So 239 00:14:53.639 --> 00:14:55.759 so that's the that's the part of it. So in 240 00:14:55.799 --> 00:14:58.360 some ways he feels incredibly inferior, but in other ways 241 00:14:58.360 --> 00:15:02.720 he feels that the he's vastly superior, and you can't 242 00:15:02.799 --> 00:15:09.679 understand why young women are attracted to young men that 243 00:15:09.799 --> 00:15:13.799 have different qualities than he has. And he gets very, 244 00:15:14.120 --> 00:15:16.399 very angry about this. It's not like the kind of 245 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:19.559 thing where he's sitting around ruminating on this. I mean, 246 00:15:19.559 --> 00:15:23.399 he's he is very very angry about it. 247 00:15:24.279 --> 00:15:27.559 You talk about his awkward puberty and accidentally finding out 248 00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:32.240 about masturbation and turning into a great source of pleasure 249 00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:36.840 for him. And yet even with world of warcraft and 250 00:15:36.879 --> 00:15:42.279 even with this masturbation new hobby, there always seems some disappointment. 251 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:47.360 We didn't talk about whether he had and his family 252 00:15:47.399 --> 00:15:54.279 had any religious background, but tell us about this this prudence, 253 00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:59.440 him being so prudish about sex at a time when 254 00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:03.399 you wouldn't think a young boy would be of that mindset. 255 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:07.960 Yeah, that's that is interesting. I mean there were a 256 00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:11.960 few times that he would get on AOL was big 257 00:16:11.960 --> 00:16:14.960 at the time. It's kind of like a people that 258 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:16.679 are young, who was going to get in a chat 259 00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:20.200 room that America online and occasionally someone would send him 260 00:16:20.200 --> 00:16:23.240 something you know, that might be a naked woman and 261 00:16:23.279 --> 00:16:27.159 he would get extremely upset by it. At one point, 262 00:16:27.159 --> 00:16:29.759 he was at a cyber cafe where people could get 263 00:16:29.759 --> 00:16:33.320 on computers and he saw somebody else looking at porn 264 00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:36.600 and he upset to the point that in the cyber cafe, 265 00:16:36.679 --> 00:16:38.840 for example, he saw the person looking at porn and 266 00:16:38.879 --> 00:16:40.720 he got so freaked out that he left and he 267 00:16:40.879 --> 00:16:46.600 cried all the way home after seeing this image of 268 00:16:47.240 --> 00:16:53.279 pornography and his masturbation. He was very All he would 269 00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:56.200 ever think about was him, you know, having sex, and 270 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:58.879 it was always a beautiful blonde girl. One of the 271 00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.559 most interesting things about Elliott and I could say this later, 272 00:17:01.639 --> 00:17:05.559 but since this just came up, he never thought about 273 00:17:05.640 --> 00:17:08.880 himself being with a girl or a woman that was 274 00:17:09.200 --> 00:17:13.279 that was anything but the perfect looking woman. So it 275 00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:16.240 wasn't a situation where he was like if an average 276 00:17:16.279 --> 00:17:19.920 looking girl in high school approached him, he probably would 277 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:26.240 have totally blown them off because in his mind he 278 00:17:26.359 --> 00:17:28.720 was destined to be with a beautiful blonde woman, or 279 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.279 if he wasn't, was ruined. It was pretty much those 280 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:32.640 two absolutes. 281 00:17:35.319 --> 00:17:39.839 Now, how about friendships. In a book, you write about 282 00:17:40.039 --> 00:17:44.160 his mom, you know she's divorced, the father's divorced, there's 283 00:17:44.319 --> 00:17:47.480 trips to Morocco. He has a new woman in his life, 284 00:17:47.519 --> 00:17:50.480 so he's not the center of attention, and sometimes he 285 00:17:50.559 --> 00:17:55.720 is taken care of by nanny's Yet, so what about 286 00:17:55.759 --> 00:17:59.279 friends and how does he approach approach friends? He said, Sumaya, 287 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:02.000 try try to get him to go outside and play 288 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.599 with friends. What's the problem with making friends? 289 00:18:07.240 --> 00:18:12.000 He is incredibly He was incredibly shy. He was a 290 00:18:12.119 --> 00:18:16.759 very very shy kid. His teachers throughout school would talk 291 00:18:16.759 --> 00:18:21.079 about how he would never really speak to anybody. This 292 00:18:21.279 --> 00:18:23.400 was also a theme throughout his life, where he whether 293 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:26.519 it be females or male friendships, he would kind of 294 00:18:26.880 --> 00:18:29.599 hope that things would happen and get really angry when 295 00:18:29.599 --> 00:18:33.359 they didn't. But he really pretty much never would would 296 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:39.440 actually take any steps himself to make these relationships with people, 297 00:18:39.480 --> 00:18:41.759 whether they'd be male or female. As far as male friends, 298 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:44.960 there were a few times he basically didn't have any 299 00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.079 when he was really young, and there were a few 300 00:18:47.119 --> 00:18:49.759 times that he had these little groups of friends that 301 00:18:49.799 --> 00:18:52.680 he'd play play World of Warcraft the way they go 302 00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:54.799 to the cyber cafe. But then even then he would 303 00:18:54.839 --> 00:18:57.319 find out sometimes I could be playing World of Warcraft 304 00:18:57.319 --> 00:18:59.160 and with these three other kids, and and'd find out 305 00:18:59.200 --> 00:19:01.279 they were all in the same round, you know, at 306 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:04.599 some other house playing where they didn't invite him to come. 307 00:19:04.720 --> 00:19:07.799 He had one good friend for quite a while named 308 00:19:07.880 --> 00:19:13.119 James that he sort of connected with around World of 309 00:19:13.119 --> 00:19:18.480 Warcraft and would get together with on occasions. That friendship 310 00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.559 ended because of Elliott's behavior later in life. And it 311 00:19:22.599 --> 00:19:24.160 was the same sort of thing with guys who'd get 312 00:19:24.200 --> 00:19:27.440 really angry if say, he had a friend, even when 313 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:29.839 he was thirteen or fourteen, and a friend had had 314 00:19:29.839 --> 00:19:34.000 a girlfriend. Elliott would get really really mad, really mad 315 00:19:34.119 --> 00:19:36.599 just that the person actually had a girlfriend, and would 316 00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.599 often end up getting in a fight, not a physical fight, 317 00:19:39.640 --> 00:19:42.839 but a verbal fight with that friend about that fact. 318 00:19:45.480 --> 00:19:48.359 Now, the relationship with his parents, He's always close to 319 00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:51.160 his mom and always had affection for his mom, but 320 00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:55.240 things change with his father and tell us why and 321 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:58.599 what are those changes result in for him? 322 00:19:59.720 --> 00:20:02.440 He it had always he was very clear. And this 323 00:20:02.519 --> 00:20:05.680 is the odd part, because his mother didn't have much 324 00:20:05.720 --> 00:20:08.680 money comparatively. I mean, I think she's basically middle class. 325 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:11.279 It wasn't she wasn't poor at all. But he did 326 00:20:11.279 --> 00:20:13.480 have a very close relationship with her. But he didn't 327 00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.480 feel that that you know, that she had the ability 328 00:20:16.519 --> 00:20:18.920 to like, you know, up his status at all. Well, 329 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.680 his father actually did so. Over time, Elliott and his 330 00:20:23.720 --> 00:20:27.880 stepmother began to fight more and more. His father, in 331 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:31.920 his mind, completely took and and again, as I'm saying this, 332 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:35.920 most of this information I'm I'm getting from police reports 333 00:20:36.039 --> 00:20:39.720 and the background information that has been in investigations, and 334 00:20:39.759 --> 00:20:42.920 also Elliott's own thoughts. So these are Elliott's thoughts about 335 00:20:42.960 --> 00:20:47.200 his relationship with his with his parents, that his father 336 00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:51.400 took took some a aside all the time, that you know, 337 00:20:51.480 --> 00:20:54.720 and and over as time went on, their relationship became 338 00:20:55.880 --> 00:21:01.960 more and more fractured, uh, because of as I've said before, 339 00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.480 that he felt that Peter always took her side and 340 00:21:05.519 --> 00:21:08.000 never his, So they became less and less close as 341 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:08.559 time went on. 342 00:21:10.000 --> 00:21:14.839 What about World of Warcraft, What was the whole role 343 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:21.440 playing game situation online? What did that present to him? 344 00:21:21.640 --> 00:21:23.720 What did he what did he think of it? 345 00:21:25.519 --> 00:21:27.960 Well, I mean, I've played World of Warcraft, so I 346 00:21:28.799 --> 00:21:34.519 have an idea. It's one of those games where you're 347 00:21:34.559 --> 00:21:36.359 not only and back in the day, this was one 348 00:21:36.400 --> 00:21:38.440 of the first games like this, you know, back in 349 00:21:39.440 --> 00:21:41.640 I would say probably you started playing in like two 350 00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.799 thousand and seven, two thousand and eight or so. It 351 00:21:45.880 --> 00:21:48.119 was one of the only games like this where you're 352 00:21:48.119 --> 00:21:50.720 not just playing a game, you're also playing with other 353 00:21:50.839 --> 00:21:54.680 characters that are other people, So people communicate with you. You 354 00:21:54.680 --> 00:21:56.640 join a guild, which is kind of a group. You 355 00:21:56.720 --> 00:21:59.319 do things together in the guild, and it's kind of endless. 356 00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.680 You can just keep playing and playing and there's always 357 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.680 something else to do. You can lose, you can lose hours, 358 00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:08.000 you can lose days, you know, in a game like this. 359 00:22:08.119 --> 00:22:10.400 So for Elliott is as it is for a lot 360 00:22:10.440 --> 00:22:13.079 of people, games of that nature just ways for them 361 00:22:13.079 --> 00:22:16.319 to get out of their reality and do something that 362 00:22:16.359 --> 00:22:19.359 they that they feel, you know, that they that they 363 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.039 kind of fit in with and that they don't have 364 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:25.400 the pressures of day to day life. So he at 365 00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:27.720 a lot of points in his life. For for years, 366 00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:29.599 like it was all he wanted to do. Like he 367 00:22:29.640 --> 00:22:32.359 didn't want to I mean, he wanted to have a girlfriend, 368 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:35.200 he wanted to have friends, but all basically all he 369 00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:39.119 really did was just play World of Warcraft for quite 370 00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.960 a while and and was just lost in it. And 371 00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:46.759 and it eventually it lost its luster and he he 372 00:22:46.839 --> 00:22:48.920 got tired of you not, but for years it was 373 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:50.559 it was his thing. 374 00:22:52.599 --> 00:22:55.599 Did he make friends online? 375 00:22:55.680 --> 00:22:59.599 He made? He made some, but then, as always happens 376 00:22:59.599 --> 00:23:02.440 in the game, like that, it became more popular, so 377 00:23:02.839 --> 00:23:04.720 they weren't really friends. But I mean there are people 378 00:23:04.759 --> 00:23:07.319 that he could that he could chat with and make 379 00:23:07.359 --> 00:23:10.359 a joke with and communicate with. But as it became 380 00:23:10.359 --> 00:23:12.240 more popular, he started to hate the game more and 381 00:23:12.319 --> 00:23:14.839 more because because there would be more and more quote 382 00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:17.960 unquote normal people on the game that would make jokes 383 00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:20.640 about virgins or the people that play the game have 384 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:23.799 no life, and since Elliott was a virgin, and Elliott 385 00:23:23.839 --> 00:23:28.519 considered himself to not have a life, he he started 386 00:23:28.559 --> 00:23:30.920 to get very angry and eventually quit. He also didn't 387 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:32.960 like the fact that he played so much similar to 388 00:23:33.039 --> 00:23:34.839 like the sports thing he played so much, but he 389 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:37.720 still wasn't all that great. There was still like if 390 00:23:37.759 --> 00:23:40.279 you if you play a game like World of Warcraft, 391 00:23:40.319 --> 00:23:43.160 there's there's a lot of competition as far as like 392 00:23:43.319 --> 00:23:46.319 you know, who's the best and who's the best healer, 393 00:23:46.440 --> 00:23:49.640 who's the best tank or whatever, and he wasn't that great. 394 00:23:49.839 --> 00:23:51.880 So even that, like he started to get angry that 395 00:23:51.920 --> 00:23:54.480 you put so much time in and he still wasn't 396 00:23:54.480 --> 00:23:56.559 one of the best at it, so he eventually quit. 397 00:23:58.720 --> 00:24:01.480 That was another theme as well, is that whenever he 398 00:24:01.559 --> 00:24:07.079 did anything, if anyone was better than he at skateboarding, 399 00:24:07.240 --> 00:24:09.640 then he lost his interest in it because there was 400 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:12.000 somebody that was better that hadn't done it as long 401 00:24:12.039 --> 00:24:15.440