WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:07.919 Oh he is, folks, it's showtime. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say good money to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:14.119 go out to a theater, they want clod Sodas pop 4 00:00:14.199 --> 00:00:15.960 popcorn in no monsters. 5 00:00:16.120 --> 00:00:19.199 In the Projection Booth, everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring. 6 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.879 Got it off? 7 00:00:40.079 --> 00:00:41.000 Hey, folks, we can. 8 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:42.920 Do a very special episode of The Projection Booth. I'm 9 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:45.920 you ost Mike White. On this episode, I am talking 10 00:00:45.960 --> 00:00:48.600 with Daniel Kremer. He has been a co host many 11 00:00:48.640 --> 00:00:51.280 times on the show before I sat down to talk 12 00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:56.240 with him all about his documentary Cruel Unusual Necessary The 13 00:00:56.439 --> 00:01:00.039 Passion of Silvio and Narrazano. It is a documentary that 14 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:03.679 is part of a release of Blue from nineteen sixty 15 00:01:03.719 --> 00:01:07.120 eight and Fade In from nineteen seventy three, all from 16 00:01:07.239 --> 00:01:11.519 Imprint Films that is available over at diabolicdvd dot com. 17 00:01:11.519 --> 00:01:13.920 And while I was talking with Daniel, I found out 18 00:01:13.959 --> 00:01:17.280 that he is also writing a new book which just 19 00:01:17.400 --> 00:01:21.799 came out. It is called Adventures in Auturism, A Crusade 20 00:01:21.799 --> 00:01:25.040 for the Critically Neglected. If you know anything about me, 21 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.040 you know that I love critically neglected films. This book 22 00:01:29.079 --> 00:01:31.599 sounds fantastic. I can't wait to dive into it. I 23 00:01:31.640 --> 00:01:34.480 had a great time talking with Daniel. I hope you 24 00:01:34.480 --> 00:01:36.400 have a great time listening to it, and I would 25 00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:39.480 highly recommend that you pick up Adventures in Auturism. I 26 00:01:39.519 --> 00:01:42.319 think it'll make a great well, I can't say stocking 27 00:01:42.319 --> 00:01:45.200 stuff because this sucker's five hundred pages. It's going to 28 00:01:45.239 --> 00:01:48.000 be a great book for you to read and a wonderful, 29 00:01:48.079 --> 00:01:51.200 wonderful gift for the holidays. Thanks so much for listening, 30 00:01:51.280 --> 00:01:52.640 and I hope you enjoyed the interview. 31 00:01:52.799 --> 00:01:56.480 Have you been I've been good. I'd been busy. I'm 32 00:01:56.599 --> 00:01:59.840 finishing this book at which I mentioned I was index 33 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:03.319 which is tedious, and I'm very tired and I'm very sore. 34 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:06.280 I've been in this chair through the last two days 35 00:02:06.280 --> 00:02:10.319 because it's just anyway, it's almost done, so happy about that. 36 00:02:10.759 --> 00:02:11.680 What is the book about? 37 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:17.319 My collected writings on Overlooked Filmmakers. So the script for 38 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:20.360 this movie that we're doing it on today is in 39 00:02:20.400 --> 00:02:23.960 there as like a text essay. So he's in there 40 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:28.919 with twenty four other full case studies and then dozens 41 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.400 of other guys and girls. It's Paul Cronin's press who's 42 00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:35.560 doing it. I'm not sure if you know that press. 43 00:02:35.599 --> 00:02:38.400 It's a great new imprint. A lot of great people 44 00:02:38.439 --> 00:02:44.719 are publishing through him nowadays. Jonathan Rosenbaum, Joe McBride, Major Bamulton, 45 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:49.120 and Nott Sigaloff just did a volume together. I think 46 00:02:49.120 --> 00:02:53.439 people are basically flocking to Paul because they've had it 47 00:02:54.199 --> 00:03:00.159 up to here with academic presses jerking them around the process. 48 00:03:00.159 --> 00:03:05.120 Paul has been wonderful. It's been very easy and it's 49 00:03:05.159 --> 00:03:08.759 been very quick. Actually, there's no board that has to 50 00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:13.960 review or approve everything that you do. That's a wonderful thing. 51 00:03:14.680 --> 00:03:18.240 I love that about it as well. But yeah, it'd 52 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:20.639 be out like the end of October. I think actually 53 00:03:20.840 --> 00:03:24.680 since coming up, we just did copy editing, we just 54 00:03:24.759 --> 00:03:29.639 did picture placement, type setting. It's consumed two months. I 55 00:03:29.719 --> 00:03:34.680 basically used what I earned my part of our wedding funds, 56 00:03:34.719 --> 00:03:37.120 what people gave us as gifts, and then just like 57 00:03:37.240 --> 00:03:40.479 taking the last two months off from doing commentary tracks 58 00:03:40.520 --> 00:03:43.759 and video essays for discs and then just putting it 59 00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:47.000 into doing this book. So yeah, I haven't been as active, 60 00:03:47.039 --> 00:03:49.120 but I'm looking to get back into it after this 61 00:03:49.199 --> 00:03:49.680 is all over. 62 00:03:50.479 --> 00:03:54.719 Tell me about this documentary you did about Silvio Nerizano, 63 00:03:54.840 --> 00:03:57.599 and I'm so curious, how did you come across him 64 00:03:57.599 --> 00:03:58.360 in the first place. 65 00:03:59.360 --> 00:04:02.280 Years ago, when I was first doing the book on 66 00:04:02.960 --> 00:04:07.840 Sidney Fury, I always knew that Naredzano was a name 67 00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:10.639 out there in the ether. I knew that, you know. 68 00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.319 I think you hear me in the documentary itself, my 69 00:04:14.479 --> 00:04:19.120 recording with Sidney Fury when he's talking about there was 70 00:04:19.199 --> 00:04:21.600 a director at the CBC who had gone over to 71 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:27.360 England to Pioneer Granada Television. You'll know the name Sylvia Narzano. 72 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:30.040 And I guess I knew at the time because I was, Oh, yeah, 73 00:04:30.480 --> 00:04:33.439 the guy who did Georgia Girl. Of Course, Sidney really 74 00:04:33.439 --> 00:04:36.720 talked him up, and then I got to know Ted Katcheff, 75 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:40.199 and Ted also talked him up. He was like a 76 00:04:40.240 --> 00:04:43.079 bit of a daddy figure in a sense to the 77 00:04:43.160 --> 00:04:48.279 Canadians who were coming over to the UK to forge 78 00:04:48.519 --> 00:04:53.519 ahead with their careers and helping them get set up, 79 00:04:53.560 --> 00:04:57.240 helping them get their foothold. And I was like, oh, 80 00:04:57.279 --> 00:04:59.759 he seems like a sweet guy. Of course I had 81 00:04:59.759 --> 00:05:04.120 seen Georgia Girl, but it took probably his most controversial movie, 82 00:05:04.759 --> 00:05:08.240 The Sky's Falling, which was released on VHS in the 83 00:05:08.279 --> 00:05:13.160 eighties under the dubious title Bloodbath, which I had seen 84 00:05:13.279 --> 00:05:18.160 in the VHS version, which you'll see the comparison in 85 00:05:18.279 --> 00:05:21.399 the documentary. It is unwatchable. It is so dark you 86 00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:24.759 cannot see what's going on. And I was like, I 87 00:05:24.759 --> 00:05:28.279 can't imagine what this would look like in a good transfer, 88 00:05:28.319 --> 00:05:31.399 but I don't know. It's so it's just like one 89 00:05:31.399 --> 00:05:33.160 of the movies that you watch in a bad bootleg 90 00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:34.720 and then it's like you move on, and then it's 91 00:05:34.720 --> 00:05:36.759 like you don't think much about it. And then when 92 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:40.959 Vinegar Syndrome came along and then they did this new 93 00:05:41.560 --> 00:05:46.120 beautiful film scan of it, I was like, Wow, what 94 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:51.199 a fucked up, demented movie this is. And it really 95 00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:55.519 fascinating film, very personal, it feels, and it also feels 96 00:05:55.639 --> 00:05:59.600 very gay. Kenn Anderson says there's far more male flesh 97 00:05:59.800 --> 00:06:04.439 on display than female, and just the way that it 98 00:06:04.519 --> 00:06:07.839 carries itself off feels very gay or very queer. And 99 00:06:07.879 --> 00:06:10.439 I was like, yeah, that's true. But then, of course 100 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:13.360 I had seen Blue along the Line. I still have 101 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.199 my VHS of Glue, which is the pan and scan 102 00:06:18.160 --> 00:06:21.839 this one. It's a scope movie, so you're missing a 103 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:25.439 lot in the VHS, but I got the Paramount DVD. 104 00:06:25.480 --> 00:06:27.800 It's like, oh, this is a really also a pretty 105 00:06:27.800 --> 00:06:30.439 interesting movie, just in terms of the pictorial quality, the 106 00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:34.600 visual the visuals, and I want to dig a little 107 00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:37.360 deeper into him because he seems like an interesting type 108 00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:40.399 of guy, maybe just like a subject for further study, 109 00:06:41.160 --> 00:06:43.399 never dreaming at the time that I'd be doing this 110 00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:45.800 whole film about him. And then it was around that 111 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:48.680 time that I moved to LA that I caught up 112 00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:52.399 with my aforementioned friend, David del Valle, who does a 113 00:06:52.480 --> 00:06:55.519 number of commentaries and whatnot, and I was over his 114 00:06:55.639 --> 00:06:57.800 place and we were just hanging out. It's like, oh, 115 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.759 did you see that crazy DNA popper Carol Baker movie? 116 00:07:01.879 --> 00:07:04.600 And I was like yes, and we talked about it, 117 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:07.079 and he was also very fascinated by it, and I 118 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.920 was like, yeah, isn't he interesting? And I've been less 119 00:07:10.920 --> 00:07:13.800 in touch with Sid Fury the last couple of years 120 00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:16.680 because of the health issues on his part, but every 121 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:18.519 once in a while I still talk to him and 122 00:07:18.519 --> 00:07:21.079 he can do maybe just a few minutes at a time. 123 00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.120 But I was like one of those calls, I was like, 124 00:07:24.519 --> 00:07:28.160 tell me more about Sylvia and Arazzano and I came 125 00:07:28.199 --> 00:07:30.000 out in the course of that conversation. It's like, oh, no, 126 00:07:30.120 --> 00:07:33.439 he was gay. He had a partner before I knew 127 00:07:33.800 --> 00:07:37.680 that gay men could have partners, and he was married 128 00:07:37.680 --> 00:07:39.879 to a woman for a time, and then that didn't 129 00:07:40.319 --> 00:07:42.720 hand out because he was very even though I knew 130 00:07:42.759 --> 00:07:46.120 then that he was not interested in woman. That's what 131 00:07:46.160 --> 00:07:48.360 you did. It was kind of like a beard. I 132 00:07:48.519 --> 00:07:50.920 began to dig more than like I saw Redneck. I 133 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:53.720 was like, jeez, this is another crazy one written by 134 00:07:54.160 --> 00:07:57.639 the guy I learned was his partner, win Wells, his 135 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:02.839 life partner. So win Wells writes these two demented movies 136 00:08:02.879 --> 00:08:09.439 with very strong gay slash queer undertones, and not even undertones. 137 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:13.240 It's just like the subtext became text after a while. 138 00:08:13.759 --> 00:08:17.160 And then by the time I finally got to Young Shoulders, 139 00:08:17.519 --> 00:08:20.959 which Blew Me Away, which is his last movie, or 140 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:23.959 one of the unless he cunt the Body in the Library, 141 00:08:24.160 --> 00:08:27.879 Young Shoulders being his last major work, I gotta do 142 00:08:28.000 --> 00:08:30.480 something about this guy. I don't know what that's going 143 00:08:30.519 --> 00:08:32.960 to look like. I can't imagine ever being able to 144 00:08:33.000 --> 00:08:36.679 sell a book on there Atsano. No one would pay 145 00:08:36.679 --> 00:08:39.000 me for it. That's for sure, and then there'd be 146 00:08:39.000 --> 00:08:41.120 a question about it, who would print it? I feel 147 00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:45.799 like I have to do something about Sylvia. And it 148 00:08:45.919 --> 00:08:50.039 was around that time that Josh Hibberd at Imprint Films, 149 00:08:50.559 --> 00:08:52.720 who likes to ask me every now and then, like 150 00:08:52.799 --> 00:08:55.200 what I'd like to see come down the pike on 151 00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:59.720 the label mostly from Paramount, and because they have a 152 00:08:59.799 --> 00:09:02.000 nice sweet deal of Paramount, I was like, if you 153 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:05.399 could get Blue, and if you could get the film 154 00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.279 that was shot on the back of Blue, which is 155 00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:12.440 called fade in for those there's a movie shot on 156 00:09:12.519 --> 00:09:15.960 the set of another movie, another fiction movie shot as 157 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:18.759 a behind the scenes movie on the set of this 158 00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:22.480 western that Sylvia Arzano made called Blue, with Burt Reynolds 159 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:26.679 who's hired by the movie company as a driver and 160 00:09:26.759 --> 00:09:30.879 as a gopher. He's a local cowhand in Utah and 161 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:34.799 he falls in love with the film editor on Blue, 162 00:09:35.399 --> 00:09:40.320 played by Barbara Loden Wanda Barbara Loden, Elia Kazant's wife, 163 00:09:40.320 --> 00:09:42.600 Barbara Loden. So I was like, if you can get 164 00:09:42.639 --> 00:09:45.679 those two movies in a pack together, I could give 165 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:50.039 you something really good as an extra about the director 166 00:09:50.080 --> 00:09:54.879 of Blue. So he began to poke around at paramount, 167 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:58.559 what do you have is blue available? Because sometimes the 168 00:09:58.600 --> 00:10:01.960 elements aren't really in good shape or whatever. There's one 169 00:10:02.000 --> 00:10:04.039 title in particular that is not in good shape and 170 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.080 it really rankles me. But Blue they had, it was 171 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.440 in good shape. Fade in they also had. It's like, okay, 172 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.039 we're green lit, but it's not going to be for 173 00:10:14.080 --> 00:10:16.679 a while. So I went to work and what I 174 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:20.799 originally envisioned as a kind of extended video essay, I 175 00:10:20.840 --> 00:10:23.679 was like, I was quoting other people that I had 176 00:10:23.799 --> 00:10:26.399 right on my fingertips, like David el Val and like 177 00:10:27.200 --> 00:10:30.720 Howard Berger and like Nathaniel Thompson. Was like, why don't 178 00:10:30.720 --> 00:10:34.120 I just interview them on camera and do something a 179 00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.000 little more formal and not just like a video essay 180 00:10:38.039 --> 00:10:42.919 with me narrating, but do a documentary hybridized with a 181 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:47.759 kind of video essay that form and make this kind 182 00:10:47.759 --> 00:10:50.360 of big hoosey wats it's about the kind of the 183 00:10:50.399 --> 00:10:54.039 definitive text about Sivia and Rzana for the total lack 184 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.519 of one. So my husband went away for six months 185 00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:02.519 of last year because he worked on the election. He's 186 00:11:02.519 --> 00:11:07.600 a statistician and very interested in political methodology and all that. 187 00:11:07.639 --> 00:11:10.879 So he was off in the field and I was 188 00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:15.559 left all by my lonesome in Pasadena and not having 189 00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:17.960 an easy time of it because you begin to miss 190 00:11:18.600 --> 00:11:20.759 your spouse or your partner. But I was like, oh, 191 00:11:20.799 --> 00:11:23.799 why don't I just sublimate all this or devote all 192 00:11:23.799 --> 00:11:28.799 my energy into doing this thing. So that's what I 193 00:11:28.879 --> 00:11:32.720 did while my husband was away. Movie. Before I knew it, 194 00:11:32.759 --> 00:11:35.440 I had a two and a quarter hour cut and 195 00:11:35.799 --> 00:11:38.600 it would seem to be playing well enough where I 196 00:11:38.639 --> 00:11:41.799 was just like, Okay, this is probably going to be 197 00:11:41.799 --> 00:11:46.440 the only thing ever done about this guy, so I'm 198 00:11:46.440 --> 00:11:50.440 going to leave it at this length. And yeah, that's 199 00:11:50.720 --> 00:11:52.240 how it happened, which. 200 00:11:52.080 --> 00:11:55.480 Is really remarkable because so much these days when I 201 00:11:55.519 --> 00:11:59.679 see extras, they seem to be almost purposefully broken into 202 00:11:59.679 --> 00:12:02.240 small chunks, almost like we don't want to pay you 203 00:12:02.279 --> 00:12:05.519 for making a documentary, You're just making a short extra. 204 00:12:06.399 --> 00:12:10.240 I'm in that market of making video essays for I 205 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:15.039 guess now nearly twenty companies, and it's the pay is 206 00:12:15.639 --> 00:12:17.960 high and low, depending on who it is and what 207 00:12:18.080 --> 00:12:21.039 the movie is. Oftentimes, if it's a movie that they 208 00:12:21.080 --> 00:12:24.039 think is going to sell, you can normally get a 209 00:12:24.039 --> 00:12:29.000 better rate but yeah, it's not a lucrative endeavor to 210 00:12:29.039 --> 00:12:31.360 do a documentary about a filmmaker no one's ever heard of, 211 00:12:31.840 --> 00:12:34.960 let's say the least. Josh is very nice about it 212 00:12:35.000 --> 00:12:37.840 and very sweet about it, but you know, that's not 213 00:12:37.879 --> 00:12:39.679 why you at the end of the day, that's not 214 00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:42.799 exactly why you do these things. I feel like I 215 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:44.919 almost had to. It's like kind of like I needed 216 00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:49.840 to understand this guy more because, let's say, also, as 217 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.120 much as it's about a filmography and a filmmaker and 218 00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.440 an artist, it's a chronicle of a gay man in 219 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:59.919 this time in the business and how he covertly, sometimes 220 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:05.240 overtly infused his work with things that he was fired 221 00:13:05.399 --> 00:13:08.360 off of a movie for making it too gay, fired 222 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:10.960 off of the man who had power over women because 223 00:13:11.639 --> 00:13:14.559 they didn't the studio didn't like that he was making 224 00:13:14.559 --> 00:13:19.279 it like extremely capital h homosexual and funny. When I 225 00:13:19.320 --> 00:13:22.960 was at Ted Kotcheff's memorial over the summer, I got 226 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:27.639 to meet the editor, Tom Noble, who is ninety years old, 227 00:13:27.759 --> 00:13:31.960 nearly in Knockwood. Great shape for a guylight age. It 228 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:36.600 was pretty unbelievable. We met at that it was gathering 229 00:13:36.679 --> 00:13:39.519 at the katchaf house afterwards with food and everything. And 230 00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:42.440 I honed in on him like a guided missile because 231 00:13:42.879 --> 00:13:47.279 Tom Noble edited Redneck, and I wanted to hear everything 232 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:50.360 about that crazy movie. And he goes, if you think 233 00:13:50.399 --> 00:13:52.919 the movie was crazy, way do you hear about the 234 00:13:53.000 --> 00:13:54.840 behind the scenes. It's like, God, damn it, I wish 235 00:13:54.879 --> 00:13:56.840 I had interviewed you on the camera. But he was 236 00:13:56.879 --> 00:13:58.919 the editor on the man who had power over women 237 00:13:58.960 --> 00:14:02.399 as well, and so he was able to confirm to 238 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:06.759 me that, oh, yes, the AVCO did. There was a 239 00:14:06.759 --> 00:14:09.600 big edict passed down, was like, get rid of this guy. 240 00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:11.919 No matter what we tell him, no matter how much 241 00:14:11.960 --> 00:14:16.279 we warn or admonish him, he cannot lay out all 242 00:14:16.320 --> 00:14:19.320 the gay stuff. He was fired for that reason. It's 243 00:14:19.360 --> 00:14:20.720 like I felt like I had to get to the 244 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:22.879 bottom of a guy who felt he could be that 245 00:14:23.759 --> 00:14:26.840 bold with that type of thing in that era and 246 00:14:26.919 --> 00:14:29.440 living with his partner or partner who was very if 247 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.799 you might want to say, flamboyant. Tom Noble told me 248 00:14:32.840 --> 00:14:36.639 that win Wells, who was Sylvia's partner, wanted to open 249 00:14:37.240 --> 00:14:40.279 gay bar called Sissy's, and this was a long time 250 00:14:40.320 --> 00:14:43.919 ambition of his. And I was like, There's really a 251 00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:47.159 lot of facts that are now that didn't make it 252 00:14:47.159 --> 00:14:49.279 into the film because I didn't know Tom at that 253 00:14:49.399 --> 00:14:51.559 time and there was no means to get in touch 254 00:14:51.600 --> 00:14:54.720 with him then. But of course him showing up at 255 00:14:54.720 --> 00:14:57.480 this memorial was like, oh, I need to talk to you. 256 00:14:58.279 --> 00:15:01.279 But it made its way into the book version, which 257 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:04.600 is a collection of my writings on the Overlook directors. 258 00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:07.639 A lot of these whole stories and factoris in the 259 00:15:07.720 --> 00:15:11.080 Narratano chapter make it into this book. But yeah, Tom 260 00:15:11.159 --> 00:15:14.799 had a lot of crazy stories and it was very 261 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:19.960 fond of Silvio. He really enjoyed the documentary because I 262 00:15:20.000 --> 00:15:23.080 shared it with him later on, And yeah, I felt 263 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:25.759 like it was a personal project that I had to 264 00:15:25.840 --> 00:15:28.519 explore what this guy was all about, how he felt 265 00:15:28.879 --> 00:15:32.759 so compelled to make the movies he made, really out 266 00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:33.960 bold and proud about it. 267 00:15:34.639 --> 00:15:36.879 Yeah, I was so shocked to see some of those 268 00:15:37.600 --> 00:15:42.120 scenes from Blue and then Loot looked like an absolute 269 00:15:42.960 --> 00:15:46.960 just crazy hoot. I am so excited to now. I 270 00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:49.840 think your documentary is doing exactly what you would hope 271 00:15:49.879 --> 00:15:52.120 it is, which is now I want to see all 272 00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:52.840 of these movies. 273 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.200 No, that's the best that you could hope for and 274 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:00.159 as I say, you might not like everything that you see, 275 00:16:00.200 --> 00:16:03.960 but it's it is one voice. It's unified as one 276 00:16:04.000 --> 00:16:09.200 man saying there's something very consistent through the course with 277 00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:13.799 a particular set of vocal cords. But no, he went 278 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:17.039 from the movie was fired from too Gay on right 279 00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:20.000 to Loot and he put all of that spunk, if 280 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:22.600 you want to call it that, and to Loot. And then, 281 00:16:23.120 --> 00:16:25.159 as I say, Loot is like to stop at the 282 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:28.960 amusement park before on the road to elector of shock therapy. 283 00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:34.600 Because Redneck and the following are definitely cold reckonings, I 284 00:16:34.600 --> 00:16:35.600 guess you might say. 285 00:16:36.360 --> 00:16:41.039 Again, even with some of the unpleasantness of Redneck, just 286 00:16:41.080 --> 00:16:44.919 to see that performance by Telly Savalis just looks amazing. 287 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:50.120 Yeah, my husband's who saw the movie. That came out 288 00:16:50.120 --> 00:16:53.440 of his absence when he came back finally from the 289 00:16:53.480 --> 00:16:57.039 election season and everything else. He watched it. I wound 290 00:16:57.120 --> 00:17:00.840 up dedicating the movie to my husband, which is if 291 00:17:00.840 --> 00:17:03.200 he's watched till the very end, you'll see, but he 292 00:17:03.279 --> 00:17:06.359 was watching it. This movie that is of course he 293 00:17:06.640 --> 00:17:09.240 dedicated to him. And there's the scene that I showed 294 00:17:09.319 --> 00:17:13.599 from Redneck of Pelly Savadalis cold bloodily killing a child 295 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:15.440 and saying you. 296 00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:16.240 Made me do it? 297 00:17:16.319 --> 00:17:21.799 Why did he run away? And like my husband's did 298 00:17:21.799 --> 00:17:23.880 he just kill a child? Yeah? 299 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:28.519 Sorry, but it's like Maggot from the Dirty Dozen having 300 00:17:28.519 --> 00:17:29.440 his own movie. 301 00:17:30.079 --> 00:17:32.440 Yes exactly. It is like that, and that's a good 302 00:17:32.480 --> 00:17:33.079 way of putting it. 303 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:35.880 Yeah, that's the thing that I've always admired about you, 304 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:37.640 is just the way that you champion some of these 305 00:17:37.720 --> 00:17:39.920 underseen films, some of the stuff that we've talked about 306 00:17:39.920 --> 00:17:42.640 on the show. It's so nice to give light to this. 307 00:17:42.759 --> 00:17:45.160 I'm super excited about this book project as well. 308 00:17:45.799 --> 00:17:47.839 It's my bag. I guess he might say, that's what 309 00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:50.640 I do. I'm not as interested at all in writing 310 00:17:50.720 --> 00:17:54.720 the thousandth book on Kubrick or john Ford or Hitchcock, 311 00:17:54.759 --> 00:17:57.839 one of these guys. I really don't know what new 312 00:17:57.920 --> 00:18:00.240 there is to say about a guy like that, saying 313 00:18:00.279 --> 00:18:02.480 that there isn't it's just not my bag. But I'm 314 00:18:02.559 --> 00:18:06.920 really interested in digging up buried treasure and making kind 315 00:18:06.920 --> 00:18:10.200 of correlations and charting the kind of constellation of a 316 00:18:10.240 --> 00:18:14.920 career and looking at people that most everyone is ignored 317 00:18:14.960 --> 00:18:17.759 and being like, there's more here that you should look 318 00:18:17.839 --> 00:18:20.519 closer at it, look closer at it, and you'll see. 319 00:18:20.680 --> 00:18:23.519 Like I was telling, I think it was Ryan Beryl, 320 00:18:23.559 --> 00:18:25.039 I was not with Ryan Beryl, and I was like, 321 00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:28.319 the word I hate the most is journeyman. Fuck journeyman. 322 00:18:28.640 --> 00:18:31.319 I don't want to hear about Journeyman. It's like every 323 00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.000 every scene, in every shot in a movie, there are 324 00:18:35.119 --> 00:18:39.640 choices being made. Some shout louder than others. Marizan shouted 325 00:18:39.720 --> 00:18:44.759 very loud, but there are things to decode at every juncture, 326 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:47.920 and Journeyman, to me, is just too much of a burden. 327 00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:50.400 You should be looking closer at these things. I should 328 00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:53.519 be looking at what ties this all together, if anything. 329 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:57.039 And then sometimes the twenties, I think twenty six full 330 00:18:57.160 --> 00:19:00.759 case studies, you got guys like Clive Downer in there 331 00:19:00.880 --> 00:19:04.119 that Andrew Sarah's champion but dropped off the map. You 332 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:06.359 have Joe mclin silver, who I was on I've been 333 00:19:06.359 --> 00:19:08.880 on your show before, and I got to know Joan 334 00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:12.079 and was doing a book on her for a time. 335 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.920 And Joan is in there. And Sidney Fury, who's Patient 336 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:19.440 zero as I call him. He's the kind of the 337 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:25.319 locus of my interest in overlooked O Tears, head Catchers, 338 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.640 Sylvia Harvey Hart is another one, Harvey Hart. No one 339 00:19:28.839 --> 00:19:32.000 gave a damn about Harvey Hart, as Gibbs I should say, 340 00:19:32.160 --> 00:19:35.079 And maybe the hope the book will open up some eyes. 341 00:19:35.079 --> 00:19:38.000 But if you look at Fortunate of Men's Eyes and 342 00:19:38.039 --> 00:19:40.160 the Picks, which I think is one of the great 343 00:19:40.559 --> 00:19:45.839 horror oddities of its day, or Mahoney's Last Stand, or 344 00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:51.799 bus Riley, there's a pretty distinctive voice here. Yvonne Passer 345 00:19:52.480 --> 00:19:56.759 is in there, and I hope that that public is 346 00:19:56.880 --> 00:19:59.880 very happy and very excited about it. He thinks it's 347 00:19:59.880 --> 00:20:02.039 like one of the books of the year because it's 348 00:20:02.039 --> 00:20:06.440 it's wow. These are like really very the essays really 349 00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:11.519 make clear connections that aren't like too far fetched. Your 350 00:20:11.720 --> 00:20:16.039 you're responsible, but you're also it's very observant. Now, I 351 00:20:16.119 --> 00:20:18.200 hope people connect with them. And it's like dozens of 352 00:20:18.240 --> 00:20:22.599 others in an appendix with short kind of capsule hey studies. Yeah, 353 00:20:22.599 --> 00:20:23.920 there are a lot of people in that. Charles B. 354 00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:28.720 Pearce is one. Philip Leacock is another, great pet cause 355 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:31.880 of Mind. Yeah, there's a lot of guys in there, 356 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:35.880 Muriel Box, Wendy Coy, the great you know, they were 357 00:20:36.759 --> 00:20:41.720 working female feature directors in the UK in the nineteen fifties, 358 00:20:42.279 --> 00:20:48.480 and they're both extraordinary. They're clearly extremely talented visually and otherwise, 359 00:20:48.680 --> 00:20:52.160 and they've just been by and large ignored, and there 360 00:20:52.200 --> 00:20:54.319 are things that connect all of them. And I hope 361 00:20:54.319 --> 00:20:58.000 I demonstrate how that is with here E years ago. 362 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:00.440 When I began in twenty twelve, I guess that was 363 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.039 I was like, I couldn't fathom how am I the 364 00:21:03.079 --> 00:21:07.359 first guy to ever really study him, and how he'd 365 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:10.680 been this lacuna in the kind of oh tier studies 366 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.960 that I've read so much of, And I was like, 367 00:21:14.279 --> 00:21:16.480 I guess more for me than more stake for me 368 00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:19.039 to put down on I think with Narnzana it was 369 00:21:19.079 --> 00:21:22.039 really like I think Sarus and a lot of these 370 00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:26.920 people are maybe slightly put off by the kind of 371 00:21:27.000 --> 00:21:31.039 blamingness of narbskay voice, so I think they just it 372 00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:35.319 was easier just to dismiss it rather than dealing with 373 00:21:35.400 --> 00:21:38.559 any of it. I think that's why he was passed 374 00:21:38.599 --> 00:21:42.880 over mainly, and chatting with a big wig film a 375 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:45.519 story and film scholar film critic who I will not 376 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:50.279 name of the older set said some pretty alarming things 377 00:21:50.359 --> 00:21:52.680 to me. When I shared the film with him, he 378 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.000 did watch it and then it was just like basically 379 00:21:56.559 --> 00:21:59.839 vaguely homophobic remarks. I was just like, Yeah, it's no 380 00:22:00.039 --> 00:22:03.480 wonder he's been ignored for so long when the likes 381 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.400 of you have been the only ones to have had 382 00:22:05.440 --> 00:22:08.279 to go at him and deemed him too much himself 383 00:22:08.400 --> 00:22:09.160 for your taste. 384 00:22:09.839 --> 00:22:12.759 It's twenty twenty five people. Let's let's get a grip here. 385 00:22:13.319 --> 00:22:16.359 As my husband says, they're in his field as well. 386 00:22:16.519 --> 00:22:21.240 He's in academia, so sclerotic, super anuated film scholars who 387 00:22:21.599 --> 00:22:27.079 see what has already been carved out, what's already been charted. 388 00:22:27.400 --> 00:22:30.400 If you are at the least but heterodox, then you 389 00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.880 know they might as well be the alien replacements from 390 00:22:35.319 --> 00:22:38.680 invasion of the body statures pointing and screeching. As I 391 00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:40.640 point out in the book, is that they're not one 392 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:43.160 of us. I want to chart my own path. There's 393 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:47.039 a lot of There are thousands of filmmakers out there 394 00:22:47.079 --> 00:22:52.720 and millions of films to concentrate at these like koshered 395 00:22:53.279 --> 00:22:56.279 items at the expense of all else distinct. There's too 396 00:22:56.319 --> 00:22:59.319 much out there to ignore certain things that have not 397 00:22:59.440 --> 00:23:00.319 been given the light. 398 00:23:01.039 --> 00:23:03.279 They're not in the pantheon. What are you talking about 399 00:23:03.400 --> 00:23:06.160 unless it's Felini or Antonio ya. 400 00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:08.319 A lot of that. The opening of the book is 401 00:23:08.359 --> 00:23:12.319