Speaker 1: This is the baseline discussing the hot button topics of
Speaker 1: the NBA. Welcome everybody, your tune to the baseline Calie
Speaker 1: Warrenshaw discussing the hot button topics of the NBA. So
Speaker 1: much happening in the last week of the NBA and
Speaker 1: we haven't even gotten down to basically the final stretch run. Essentially,
Speaker 1: there's still so much basketball left to be played, maybe
Speaker 1: a handful of games will be about fifteen to twenty
Speaker 1: games left to play, and yet we are so much
Speaker 1: further away from really determining who's going to be in
Speaker 1: it and who's going to be out of it. But
Speaker 1: I guess that's what makes it all intriguing. But more importantly,
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff happening with teams who have made
Speaker 1: big moves, pushing chips all into the table, only to
Speaker 1: find the outcome being not what they had hoped for.
Speaker 1: So stuff to get into. Cannot wait to do it.
Speaker 1: Go ahead and roll out the red carpet to my
Speaker 1: right hand man Www. Dot Show Sports sat in Net
Speaker 1: Big going to PC my man, Mister warn Show repping
Speaker 1: out of Fort Floida and Florida rocking the nice fitted
Speaker 1: nineteen Media group cap what's good, my man? Looking fresh
Speaker 1: to death today.
Speaker 2: It's very kind of you, sir, I mean, just trying
Speaker 2: to follow in your proverbial footsteps, but you know what
Speaker 2: it is.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: We back up here with the Baseline Bay Podcast. Another
Speaker 2: great episode, stretch run of the NBA season. Lots to
Speaker 2: talk about, fresh off the heels of a weekend where
Speaker 2: our Celtics, you know, and the Lakers winning streak, so
Speaker 2: I'm always excited about that. But again, a lot more
Speaker 2: information to kind of get into, and I just wanted
Speaker 2: to and before we kind of get into it, you know,
Speaker 2: I think we might have been well, you know what, No,
Speaker 2: we weren't premature. We're right on time. But the impressed
Speaker 2: me segments continue because just a week after you talk
Speaker 2: about Jokic and the honest game and how how it
Speaker 2: was nice to see those big men kind of doing things,
Speaker 2: Joker goes out there and puts up a line we've
Speaker 2: never seen in NBA history, with thirty twenty and twenty
Speaker 2: MVP gap is closing in. I saw on something on
Speaker 2: ESPN today after that game. It cut SGA's MVP odds
Speaker 2: in half after that one game. But I think I
Speaker 2: think Jokis has always been right there, right right there
Speaker 2: in the running. I think it's been neck and neck.
Speaker 2: I don't know how anybody was saying it was SGA's
Speaker 2: to win, nor it was his already. But I love
Speaker 2: what's going on in the NBA right now. Bro. Then
Speaker 2: these two guys are are in for a historic stretch
Speaker 2: as they're even playing today, as we're recording this evening.
Speaker 1: Yes, those are the collapse for Thank you Nicola Jokic
Speaker 1: for doing exactly what I think a lot of people
Speaker 1: are afraid to have what happens right Like when you
Speaker 1: have already just assumed that you know, the the Handy
Speaker 1: Award because of Oklahoma City Thunder, you know, have the
Speaker 1: best record in basketball, and you know all this other
Speaker 1: kind of stuff, it's just like an easy give. And
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that by far SGA is still not ahead.
Speaker 1: I'm not even saying that SGA, in what he's done
Speaker 1: in totality through this season, is not deserving of being
Speaker 1: the lead vote getter for MVP. But there's a reason
Speaker 1: why Jokic is a three time NBA MVP winner, right
Speaker 1: And it's not about just what he's doing. Shaw we
Speaker 1: talked about sometimes it takes Iron to sharp sharpen Iron,
Speaker 1: and that, to me is part of the narrative that
Speaker 1: I think gets missed when we're watching these guys play
Speaker 1: their season out right, Like, if I'm SGA, I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that you should do anything outside the scope of
Speaker 1: what's major team successful and put them in the position
Speaker 1: that they're in, But yeah, go out there and drop
Speaker 1: another fifty Oh yeah, go out there and drop twenty
Speaker 1: five assists. If the game allows you to be able
Speaker 1: to do that. Iron sharpens Iron. I think that game
Speaker 1: that he had against Giannis Antetokumpo, and I'm not saying
Speaker 1: it's because of Antetokumpo. What I'm saying is is he
Speaker 1: recognizes the magnitude of the moment, what's at stake for
Speaker 1: the Denver Nuggets, and he knows it this is the
Speaker 1: time where he has to step his game up even further.
Speaker 1: And those are the performances that are coming out. These
Speaker 1: are the end results. And we as NBA, either pundits
Speaker 1: or those that are watching the game, get to watch this,
Speaker 1: absorb it and bass and glow in the greatness of
Speaker 1: what's made him the kind of player that we always
Speaker 1: have thought he was right And then what we're seeing
Speaker 1: right now, like this is what we're asking of our
Speaker 1: great players when the moment asked of it, he's delivering.
Speaker 1: And I think because of him, he's making this MVP
Speaker 1: you know, run even that much more interesting and hate
Speaker 1: it to love it. If he winds up winning it,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to be mad at it. SG shouldn't
Speaker 1: be mad at it. If nothing, it should force him
Speaker 1: to go out there and take greatness to another level
Speaker 1: to secure his ability to win his first MVP award.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, And again we're recording this the day of
Speaker 2: the game that they're playing, so we don't even know
Speaker 2: the outcome of I don't know what that will be
Speaker 2: and how those narrors may even shift by the time
Speaker 2: this absolutely airs. But I love the fact that there's
Speaker 2: there should not be this just coronation, if you will,
Speaker 2: for SGA, just because Jokers want it so many times
Speaker 2: I think, I don't think I know Joker is still
Speaker 2: very legitimately in this conversation, and the fact of voter
Speaker 2: fatigue is a real situation, and there's others out there
Speaker 2: saying that they won't, but it is that and it's
Speaker 2: really interesting because I was thinking about this tour we're
Speaker 2: coming on air. It's like, well, he's an MVP, a
Speaker 2: multiple time MVP is now having his best season, the
Speaker 2: best season of what have been any other previous MVP runs.
Speaker 2: And that's not to mitigate into say that somebody couldn't
Speaker 2: come up from the throws like SGA and be right
Speaker 2: there and compete with him. But statistically speaking, you know,
Speaker 2: Joker is doing a lot of the heavy lifting. And
Speaker 2: if you took both those guys off there, off those teams,
Speaker 2: I guess the question is, you know, who do you
Speaker 2: think would actually still be able to be maybe a
Speaker 2: playoff contender? And I don't know. I think I would
Speaker 2: pick Okay in terms of their overall totality because so
Speaker 2: much is centered around what Joker does in terms of
Speaker 2: even the play creation and the rebounding and the scoring.
Speaker 2: Is you will to and I will say she's just
Speaker 2: a score because he does defend as well. But both
Speaker 2: of these guys have strong cases, and I know we're
Speaker 2: not in a situation where we want to see ties
Speaker 2: and give it to both of them, but I will
Speaker 2: be interested to see how the voters ultimately go. And
Speaker 2: this is not a conversation we engage in because it
Speaker 2: is a pretty healthy narrative that gets discussed on a
Speaker 2: regular basis. But it's intrigued my interest right now, especially
Speaker 2: the way Joker is truly coming on here and trying
Speaker 2: to gain ground. It seems like on Ah and the
Speaker 2: MVP right well, And I.
Speaker 1: Think the other thing you have to look at, Tooshaw
Speaker 1: is the scheduling and where these teams fit in the
Speaker 1: narrative of what they need to do for the remainder
Speaker 1: of the games left to play. Right Like, of course,
Speaker 1: if you are dagging out, you would love to give
Speaker 1: your team opportunity, your star players opportunities where there's some
Speaker 1: rest because obviously this is going to be a tough run,
Speaker 1: right for the Oklahoma City Thunder. If you're the Denver Nuggets, unfortunately,
Speaker 1: you don't have the luxury to afford that kind of opportunity.
Speaker 1: So Mike Malone knows he has to maximize getting the
Speaker 1: Denver Nuggets in the best position possible to at least
Speaker 1: wind up hosting first round, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1: And so you're going to wind up seeing a skewed
Speaker 1: version of the way that this is. And again, when
Speaker 1: we're giving this award, are we giving this award up
Speaker 1: until what he was so dominant and then now because
Speaker 1: they're laying off, it should not count against him. Forget
Speaker 1: that it's the MVP award through the totality of the
Speaker 1: regular season. And I think that's where it becomes very
Speaker 1: intriguing that you see these kind of matchups in a
Speaker 1: game like the one that you're speaking of, that as
Speaker 1: we're recording this show is highly watchable because of where
Speaker 1: these two teams are. But more importantly, when you see
Speaker 1: a performance of like what Nikola Jokic did, and he's
Speaker 1: very firmly the second place, you know, in second place
Speaker 1: of the MVP, you want to see where that level
Speaker 1: of greatness comes from. In an SGA. He can he
Speaker 1: can go through the regular season again, he can drop
Speaker 1: another fifty burger or whatever. But I want to see
Speaker 1: where his impact when he has to play against his contemporaries.
Speaker 1: These are his contemporaries now, Giannis atietekunmpos, the Luka Dankic's
Speaker 1: He's no longer second tier. And because the team is
Speaker 1: successful and he's basically the best player on the team,
Speaker 1: we're gonna no, he's gonna have to He's because of
Speaker 1: his performances through the regular season and why we've been
Speaker 1: watching him so closely and we've been pushing him into
Speaker 1: that conversation. This is the game that we need to
Speaker 1: see where SGA should be constantly in that conversation because
Speaker 1: every time he decides to play against those great players,
Speaker 1: he's going to put out that best performance necessary, whether
Speaker 1: they win or lose. I just don't want to see
Speaker 1: a dud. I don't want to see, well SGA just disappeared,
Speaker 1: because Yeah, that's gonna count against him, and it's gonna
Speaker 1: count against the viability of saying, is he really deserving
Speaker 1: to be the MVP when you're seeing equal contemporaries out
Speaker 1: there exuding that level of greatness in high level games,
Speaker 1: prime time games, or games where it matters the most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really interesting because I think, while we do
Speaker 2: want this matchup, but you want to see them go
Speaker 2: ahead to head, they're not really guarding each other, right,
Speaker 2: they played two completely different positions. It's different from the
Speaker 2: Embiid Jokic days, right when they did guard each other
Speaker 2: and they went up and then Embiid basically won the
Speaker 2: m v P in the one on one matchup, you
Speaker 2: know in Philadelphia, where he just kind of flamed the
Speaker 2: joker that in that in that game for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: But it was it was I'm sorry, it was the
Speaker 1: turning point, right like where everything was kind of neck
Speaker 1: and neck. That performance really kind of made the sension.
Speaker 1: It made the exclamation point about we feel comfortable if
Speaker 1: Joel ANDB winds up winning the MVP, will not be
Speaker 1: disappointed because of where he was and in that matchup
Speaker 1: against Nicola Jokic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there's the there's the other side of it too,
Speaker 2: where some people think it's you know, ridiculous, Okay, Well
Speaker 2: that one game was that, right, That's what decided it.
Speaker 2: When you know, even when you said previously it was
Speaker 2: it's a regular season award, it's the complete body of work.
Speaker 2: And because until we get true determining factors and whatever
Speaker 2: the aspects are that are going to be the determinating
Speaker 2: these awards, it's always going to be subjective and a
Speaker 2: one game, one v one scenario, so to speak, can
Speaker 2: till the favors until the odds. Similar to a historic
Speaker 2: NBA performance of epic perfortions, when you have thirty twenty
Speaker 2: and twenty, you know in a game that you do
Speaker 2: ultimately win, you know all of a sudden, the other guys,
Speaker 2: the league guys, odds have been cut in half. Like,
Speaker 2: it's very wild to see how this is, how it's
Speaker 2: you know, oscillating really from day to day. But that
Speaker 2: also goes to show you how close it is, how
Speaker 2: two great how these two great players are playing this season.
Speaker 2: And I don't want to take anything away from both
Speaker 2: of them. I want to be on the positive side
Speaker 2: of this. So let's see how things shake out again.
Speaker 2: We'll see how it goes in terms of the team matchup.
Speaker 2: Also ultimately where both of these teams finish. While we
Speaker 2: know Case he's going to be the number one seed,
Speaker 2: can Denver and get a two seed or three seed?
Speaker 2: And does that give Joker a better line into winning
Speaker 2: another MVP?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, well I listen, man, I want to see
Speaker 1: Sga cook. That's it, That's all it is, man Like,
Speaker 1: I want to see him. I want to see him cook.
Speaker 1: And look, it wasn't too long ago, Sean, that we
Speaker 1: were having this conversation about Jason Tatum. It wasn't too
Speaker 1: long ago we were having this conversation you know about
Speaker 1: Kyrie Irving, right, I mean you look at the numbers
Speaker 1: as some of these guys have been posting and and
Speaker 1: and these are they're viable numbers. But again, part of
Speaker 1: that indicator I think of right now where the present
Speaker 1: state is, where it's all about what the eyes are
Speaker 1: telling you. It's when you have these kind of matchups
Speaker 1: happening on primetime television where at the height of the
Speaker 1: game of basketball is being watched.
Speaker 2: Can't can Can I just say that because I was
Speaker 2: going to save this but you touched on it, and
Speaker 2: I just I got to get this off my chest.
Speaker 2: I am I am sick of the Jason Tatum denigration.
Speaker 2: Like I'm tired of it, you know, and whatever it
Speaker 2: is that Fox Sports or others people have against Jayson Tatum,
Speaker 2: Like it's absolutely got to stop, you know, like close
Speaker 2: your eyes and do you like get out of here,
Speaker 2: like stop it, stop it. Jason Tatum is in all
Speaker 2: time already an all time great, and I'm just not
Speaker 2: because we root for the Celtics or whatever. I just
Speaker 2: feel like this this era of wanting to tear guys
Speaker 2: down and because he doesn't do it in the way
Speaker 2: that we're used to. And I can even grant the
Speaker 2: fact that well Kobe is his idol and the guy
Speaker 2: he will looked up to. He doesn't have the same
Speaker 2: outward exuberance as Kobe. That doesn't mean he's that he's
Speaker 2: not a killer, doesn't mean he's not a fierce competitor, right,
Speaker 2: And everything that keeps coming out about Jason Tanta, especially
Speaker 2: within the last couple of weeks, Like it's just been
Speaker 2: so negative while he's been delivering. And you're talking about
Speaker 2: guys whos been giving forty forty point performances, you know,
Speaker 2: in wins and won in a loss against Cleveland as well,
Speaker 2: Like that guy is hooping and has been hooping. And
Speaker 2: after the disrespect from the Olympics. Yes he didn't win,
Speaker 2: you know, I find MVP, but he won an NBA championship.
Speaker 2: There's just so much just negativity around this guy. First,
Speaker 2: for whatever reason, stop it. Jayson Tatum is is on
Speaker 2: a Hall of Fame pace. He's an all time great,
Speaker 2: and we need to give him his flowers in the
Speaker 2: current and in the present.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I had no idea that our conversations were
Speaker 1: going to lean into these different directions, but I completely
Speaker 1: agree with you. I will say this, though, Shaw, what
Speaker 1: I think now that I'm appreciating more about what I'm
Speaker 1: seeing from Jason Tatum is that he has found a
Speaker 1: way to show us his greatness within the confines of
Speaker 1: a of a of a of a very well balanced team.
Speaker 1: And he doesn't make any bones about the fact that
Speaker 1: he's not going to be considered an MVP candidate in
Speaker 1: the same way as an SGA is Nicola Jokic, because
Speaker 1: he understands that the way that this team has been
Speaker 1: structured for him and for everyone of the way that
Speaker 1: the Celtics are is as long as they're successful in winning.
Speaker 1: And his guy, Jalen Brown is eating and all the
Speaker 1: rest of those guys are eating. He's all for it.
Speaker 1: And at first I thought it wasn't as genuine because
Speaker 1: when I saw how he first came out, initially, I
Speaker 1: really thought that his mindset, very similar to the Mamba mentality,
Speaker 1: was one more to be so self obsessed, self possessed,
Speaker 1: self absorbed that you wind up just completely, you know,
Speaker 1: overlooking everyone else and what they could potentially help bring
Speaker 1: to the table if you so badly want to win
Speaker 1: a championship. But you've seen how year after year after year,
Speaker 1: even as the distance about trying to make him the
Speaker 1: viable MVP candidate which there should not be His numbers
Speaker 1: prove that he should be an MVP candidate every single year,
Speaker 1: but he's doing it sacrificing certain things that I think
Speaker 1: has what's elevated that idea or perception that he's supposed
Speaker 1: to be an MVP, and yet he's not in that
Speaker 1: conversation by the time that we get to the end
Speaker 1: of the year and we don't really look in totality
Speaker 1: about what is encompassed around what he deals with and
Speaker 1: what he does throughout the course of the regular season.
Speaker 1: That may mean why he's not one, two or three
Speaker 1: right like when we think he's supposed to be. But
Speaker 1: think about it, Jaylen Brown, if he was on another team,
Speaker 1: would he not be considered an MVP candidate alone? Like
Speaker 1: the reason why those guys are together is why we
Speaker 1: see the sustainability as successful to Boston Celtics. And I
Speaker 1: think people who watch their favorite teams, their favorite players
Speaker 1: and stuff like that, look at how your team is
Speaker 1: structured and tell me, would you want it only about
Speaker 1: him being an MVP or would you want your team
Speaker 1: sustainably in the playoffs, in the Eastern Conference Finals, in
Speaker 1: the NBA Finals year in and year out, with confidence?
Speaker 1: Would you want that more than you worry about wanting
Speaker 1: your guy as an MVP. I'll and I'll give you
Speaker 1: the perfect comparison or analogy to that. Look at Joel Embiid.
Speaker 1: Look at how many iterations of the Philadelphia seventy six
Speaker 1: we just talked about this last week. And I'm not
Speaker 1: shamming on Joel. What I'm saying is that is an
Speaker 1: organizational decision about how they structured that team. You look
Speaker 1: at Joel Embiid and you look at the iterations of
Speaker 1: the sixers that they've had over the years. He's gotten
Speaker 1: his m v P. But for all of that, does
Speaker 1: that mean that they were as any more successful when
Speaker 1: he was there that in his rookie year and his
Speaker 1: rookie dominance. So that's what I'm saying. It's a lot
Speaker 1: of moving pieces to that part.
Speaker 2: You know, there are a lot of moving pieces, and
Speaker 2: I think for Tatum, a lot of it is for
Speaker 2: media times specifically, it's a disappointment he didn't reach the
Speaker 2: mountaintop as fast as we wanted him to for the
Speaker 2: signs that he showed, and it took a certain level
Speaker 2: of changing his own mindset and took Mazula kind of
Speaker 2: coming in and kind of changing the team mindset to
Speaker 2: some degree for them to get there. Yes, they got
Speaker 2: to the finals with Udoka, but ultimately, you know, kind
Speaker 2: of choke that away. And it's interesting now from you know,
Speaker 2: you sake it three years ago, four years ago, maybe
Speaker 2: now where old Tatum's for sure gonna be an MPP.
Speaker 2: He's going to win multiple now, no one's saying, no
Speaker 2: one's saying those things. He's gonna proverbally always be slided
Speaker 2: in the four or five slot, you know when it
Speaker 2: comes to the bos like, yeah, he's good, but he
Speaker 2: can't really win, right, And guys like if you take
Speaker 2: future MVP odds, you take Anthony Edwards right now, probably
Speaker 2: most people would you know, over Overtatum in terms of tating,
Speaker 2: because like, oh, we feel like we've seen what he is,
Speaker 2: we know what he is. He's not going to be
Speaker 2: any more than what he's shown currently that may or
Speaker 2: may not be true. I think the aspect of you know,
Speaker 2: just trying to crap on the guy and saying he's
Speaker 2: all these that he's not all these other things and
Speaker 2: and basically trying to take away from his greatness is
Speaker 2: where I'm just like it's a bridge too far, and
Speaker 2: I just I'm tired of it. And you know, it's
Speaker 2: and it's everything I see on social media right now.
Speaker 2: And you know, Jason Tatum is an amazing basketball player
Speaker 2: and he's accomplished a lot and a lot more than
Speaker 2: the others. I think the latest one was, oh, he's
Speaker 2: like Clay Thompson at at Clay Thompson's peak, well slightly
Speaker 2: better than like get out of here, just just just
Speaker 2: get out of here, like just stop it. So anyway,
Speaker 2: I've screened us much further than where our agenda was
Speaker 2: supposed to be here today. So I apologize. But I
Speaker 2: came in a little ownery, a little bit spicy, and
Speaker 2: I needed to get that off my chest.
Speaker 1: Especially we should we should have seen the signs. Bro,
Speaker 1: you you are you're wearing traditional Celtic green. You gotta
Speaker 1: you gotta glowing green going on.
Speaker 2: Man, I feel like, you know, they have that black
Speaker 2: and that lime green one. Yeah, so maybe it's a
Speaker 2: it's a little lean into.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I mean, you know, I don't know what
Speaker 1: what leper kin you got got ready for this Saint
Speaker 1: Patrick's Day run. But I'm saying I don't know if
Speaker 1: I want to be running into you and in Boston
Speaker 1: streets now feeling some guy way.
Speaker 2: Just let's keep it positive. NBA just can do that.
Speaker 1: Good luck with that good luck I mean in this
Speaker 1: day and age. Man, you know what I'm saying, he Lebron,
Speaker 1: Lebron about to step to some people, not gonna name
Speaker 1: no names, but Cali Warrenshaw baseline NBA podcast got a
Speaker 1: great show coming up, man. Obviously we're gonna talk a
Speaker 1: little bit about things going on with the New York
Speaker 1: Knicks losing Jalen Brunson. What that's gonna mean, and it's
Speaker 1: not always Sonny in Dallas. I will let you know
Speaker 1: what that actually means as well too. And then we
Speaker 1: got a quick little you got were carrying this over
Speaker 1: from our previous episode because you know, Shaw the the
Speaker 1: the mind warp that he was able to transport our
Speaker 1: mentalities to in the possibilities of who would you choose
Speaker 1: would you choose to you know, to start your franchise?
Speaker 1: Would you choose A K. Cunningham? Would you choose the
Speaker 1: Tyrese Haliburton? I was not letting that go, and we're
Speaker 1: gonna make sure we get that in and you who
Speaker 1: you got, so as always be sure to get in
Speaker 1: my Manshaw, Ash Sports, NBA, Get at Me a Gay
Speaker 1: Face Leader Shows, Twitter, NBA based on available on all
Speaker 1: the major platforms. You can go to www dot the
Speaker 1: Baseline NBA dot com to nowally check this episode episode out,
Speaker 1: but also the puff ther of episodes that we dropped
Speaker 1: for your listening pleasure. And if you see us on
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Speaker 1: check out the family of great content creators at www
Speaker 1: dot nineteen MediaGroup dot com. Coming up, seaw and I
Speaker 1: go over some some really really good juicy stuff that's
Speaker 1: been happening in the association off the court, and we'll
Speaker 1: also talk about the Jalen Brunson injury. But first basketball
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Speaker 1: your game coming up. Cali warren Shaw discussing more don't
Speaker 1: miss it here on the baseline. We're back Cali Wonnshaw
Speaker 1: based one NBA podcast, couple of things going on in
Speaker 1: the association. Wanted to make sure we highlight, so sew
Speaker 1: the The interesting thing that has been going on now
Speaker 1: is is the the post i guess interviews and the
Speaker 1: after math interviews that take place after the fallout of
Speaker 1: the big trades that have take that have happened so
Speaker 1: far this season. And one that was pretty interesting to
Speaker 1: me is now the reveal about where de Aaron Fox
Speaker 1: was with the Sacramento Kings organization and everything that led
Speaker 1: to his eventual move movement to being sent to the
Speaker 1: you know, San Antonio Spurs and I just I guess
Speaker 1: to me, I find it very interesting because it's definitely
Speaker 1: feels like I don't know if the Aaron Fox with
Speaker 1: somebody is somebody that likes to keep things, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of private, doesn't want to speak ill Obviously, you know,
Speaker 1: this was the organization that drafted him, that this is
Speaker 1: his starting point is now he's moving forward or to Sacramento,
Speaker 1: but he is revealing some interesting things about what led
Speaker 1: to him eventually being traded. Obviously he requested, you know,
Speaker 1: to be traded. To me, I just find it just
Speaker 1: kind of interesting that, you know, the Sacramento Kings allowed
Speaker 1: certain things to be leaked out about how he is
Speaker 1: or where he is, and then now Darreon Fox is
Speaker 1: on the defens of saying, look, I wasn't on board
Speaker 1: with the fact that, you know, you guys let go
Speaker 1: of Mike Brown. I wasn't even told about it, and
Speaker 1: you know, I just felt like the organization didn't have
Speaker 1: my back. And so I don't know if he's hedging,
Speaker 1: if he was hedging his best, if he outright just
Speaker 1: really felt some kind of way about what took place there.
Speaker 1: But clearly he wants to make sure that he's like, Yo,
Speaker 1: I don't want to be coming into any situation where
Speaker 1: you guys think that I'm the reason why I asked
Speaker 1: to be moved. This is really all on them. What
Speaker 1: were your thoughts about, you know, d Aaron Fox and
Speaker 1: him laying these assertions down about what led to what
Speaker 1: happened with him with Sacramento.
Speaker 2: I think there's the old adage that hey, there's three
Speaker 2: sides to a story, and so I don't think Fox
Speaker 2: is squeaky clean and everything that's that's happened here. But
Speaker 2: we also know the Sacramento Kings organization is not has
Speaker 2: not always been the most well run, and that they
Speaker 2: have had some faux pause and we we as media types,
Speaker 2: haven't always agreed with some of the decisions that they've
Speaker 2: made and the things that I'm going out there, But
Speaker 2: with current ownership and previous ownership was well even going
Speaker 2: back to de Marcus Cousins days. So it's it's a
Speaker 2: really really strange situation. Fox kind of going on this
Speaker 2: acquittal tour, if you will, maybe not a tour, but
Speaker 2: again he's making these comments and at this point it
Speaker 2: doesn't really matter that both both both parties have moved
Speaker 2: on exactly.
Speaker 1: I in my head, I'm like, why why is it
Speaker 1: necessary now? Like when you I felt that there was
Speaker 1: a window where if you really had to say something
Speaker 1: about this, you could have said something about it, and
Speaker 1: you chose not to say anything about it, and it
Speaker 1: obviously didn't help your cause. Now you're it's almost like
Speaker 1: you're revisiting this because so much there's so much more
Speaker 1: that's going on right now that I don't think anybody
Speaker 1: really would have cared because of the fact to your point,
Speaker 1: show it's the Sacramento Kings, and it just doesn't feel
Speaker 1: like anything that they do any longer has like a
Speaker 1: genuine level of longevity in in in it being like
Speaker 1: an organization that knows what they're doing right. So for
Speaker 1: now for him to have to come out and say something,
Speaker 1: I feel like it feels like you're trying to say
Speaker 1: face to something that there actually is some truth to
Speaker 1: what was going on that we weren't a privy to it,
Speaker 1: we weren't aware of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's it's water under the bridge, or at
Speaker 2: least it should be. He's moved on. They moved on.
Speaker 2: He's in a situation that's going to be better for him.
Speaker 2: Long term, although the Wemby injury obviously impacts the short
Speaker 2: term viability of this season. But Sacramento is listen, you
Speaker 2: don't need to throw them any more on the ground
Speaker 2: based on everything you kind of just said, like, hey,
Speaker 2: we've we've seen how they who they are. We understand
Speaker 2: to a certain degree how they operate. So it's not
Speaker 2: just like you're not throwing any more dirt, you know,
Speaker 2: in the grave here, just like all right, cool, we
Speaker 2: know it's not the best organization, so you moved on
Speaker 2: for whatever the reasons are. Let that be that. Let
Speaker 2: that be between y'all. And I just hope that darn
Speaker 2: has whatever closure he needs and the Kings do as
Speaker 2: well too, Like we don't need to be reviews of this,
Speaker 2: you know. And I want to say the person the
Speaker 2: victim in this is Mike Brown, but some way, like
Speaker 2: Mike Brown's wounds get reopened as a result of you
Speaker 2: know whatever. Fox is here saying as well too, and
Speaker 2: by Brown is, yeah, he's still getting paid, but he's
Speaker 2: out of a job, right so you know whatever whatever
Speaker 2: that means for him now, like he's not having the
Speaker 2: same piece that he'd like to have at this point,
Speaker 2: you know, after being let go what it gets about
Speaker 2: two months ago now, so hopefully Sacramento and Darren Fox
Speaker 2: whenever Fox comes back in the sack too, you know,
Speaker 2: in future seasons, you know it's still well received and
Speaker 2: they can give them, you know, love, and they just
Speaker 2: can forget and say, hey, it's a time. I spent
Speaker 2: eight years there, But now I'm a San Antonio spur
Speaker 2: and let's kind of keep it pushing from there.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, all right, So let's shift our focus now to
Speaker 1: it's not always sunny in Dallas. With everything now that
Speaker 1: is happened at the Dallas Mavericks, you could not have
Speaker 1: scripted a more disastrous turn of events. And look, I
Speaker 1: can understand why people are very much adamant about, you know,
Speaker 1: Nico Harrison should be on the chopping block. You know,
Speaker 1: he's he's got to be ready to go, right. I
Speaker 1: get that part of it a little bit. I kind
Speaker 1: of don't get that part of it in the sense
Speaker 1: that if you are an executive and you have a
Speaker 1: player like Luka Donkic, and I understand the idea is,
Speaker 1: no matter what you do, you cannot let that guy
Speaker 1: go or whatever the case may be. I've been more
Speaker 1: on the side of saying, what do you expect this
Speaker 1: guy to do?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: Obviously, Luka Doncic is in a position where he's probably
Speaker 1: going to command a far greater demand that the Dallas
Speaker 1: Mavericks are not going to be able to hold or handle. Right,
Speaker 1: this is not something where you can franchise tag a
Speaker 1: player like in the NFL out with someone like a
Speaker 1: Luka Donkic, and if he's doing things or exhibiting things
Speaker 1: that is really counterintuitive to the longevity of that franchise's viability.
Speaker 1: What do you expect him to do? And I just
Speaker 1: find it interesting that, like now, especially the comments that
Speaker 1: are being made by Klay Thompson's dad, Michael Thompson out
Speaker 1: in LA And I'm not saying this to disrespect him,
Speaker 1: because obviously he's protecting his son and he's protecting his
Speaker 1: son's interest in what he was trying to do when
Speaker 1: he signed on to be with the Dallas Mavericks. But
Speaker 1: I think it all lends itself into the chaos that
Speaker 1: has occurred with this season. But I think everyone's focus
Speaker 1: has been more about the trade. This to me goes
Speaker 1: a little bit even further before that that obviously has
Speaker 1: not surfaced in the kind of way that we would
Speaker 1: have thought. It's so easily like we see it as
Speaker 1: it is. It's now all just happened at one one time,
Speaker 1: and it has just completely spun itself out of control.
Speaker 1: I was just curious about what you thought Michael comments.
Speaker 1: Michael Thompson's comments were, you know about saying Clay's been
Speaker 1: you know, Clay is in purgatory, you know, with what's
Speaker 1: happened now with the Dallas Mavericks, with this sediment by
Speaker 1: people saying that, you know, the Mavericks really should just
Speaker 1: tank the rest of this year, this that and the
Speaker 1: third and everything going on with the hatred, the vitriol
Speaker 1: that has been shifted to the way of Nico Harrison
Speaker 1: and him being on the chopping block.
Speaker 2: I think Michael Thompson's comments are in defense of his son.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: He'd left the situation, a very storied situation in Golden
Speaker 2: State to come to Dallas where he could hopefully have
Speaker 2: a new beginning with what he thought was going to
Speaker 2: be a championship run the finals last year. So it's
Speaker 2: not impossible to think that he could have been a
Speaker 2: nice fit and should have been a nice fit, but
Speaker 2: it just went left immediately. You know, Luca wasn't wasn't
Speaker 2: really healthy for the beginning part of the year and
Speaker 2: missed so many games, and then you know, the block, blockbuster,
Speaker 2: monumental historical trade happens. Since Luca to La, Kyrie goes
Speaker 2: down it, he goes down, Godford goes down watching it.
Speaker 2: Like if you turned your two k sliders up to
Speaker 2: one hundred, this probably still wouldn't happen. In the same fashion.
Speaker 2: Nico Harrison has had an unprecedented run, unprecedented run of
Speaker 2: bad luck, you know, with injuries in this organization, following
Speaker 2: what was a pretty by most people's account, poorous trade
Speaker 2: and where he at least should have extracted more and
Speaker 2: more and more.
Speaker 1: Actually that you don't need to yeah to that part
Speaker 1: you're show. That's where I wanted and I appreciate you
Speaker 1: going there. If you want to knock him because he
Speaker 1: did not get more from the trade, I get that,
Speaker 1: you know, and you can, and you can, you can,
Speaker 1: you know, chop him down as much as you want
Speaker 1: to on that. But I still am and maybe I'm
Speaker 1: just the only person who's dying on this, on on
Speaker 1: this hill about this, I don't know what you expect
Speaker 1: any organization to do any gm to do. When it
Speaker 1: comes to having the kind of player that apparently Luka
Speaker 1: Dancic has been, it seems like, you know, he was
Speaker 1: running that ship or that assign, like they allowed a
Speaker 1: lot more than I think we're giving credit to him.
Speaker 1: Maybe because he's just such a great player, we all
Speaker 1: let it slide. My whole thing is, how are you
Speaker 1: gonna not Miko Harrison for that? Like, what do you
Speaker 1: expect him and that organization to do. They're not the Lakers,
Speaker 1: they're not the Celtics. Dam they're not even the New
Speaker 1: York Knicks. They're not one of your original teams. And
Speaker 1: you've got a player who's arguably going to command much
Speaker 1: more than what their market can actually harness or be
Speaker 1: able to take in.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I think that's debatable, right, you know,
Speaker 2: because it's easy for I think Luca supporters and you know,
Speaker 2: people putting stuff out about Luca from his camps like, hey,
Speaker 2: he was never going to leave Dallas, he would have
Speaker 2: stayed there, so forth and so forth. And then you
Speaker 2: take a franchise like you know, the Cowboys are in
Speaker 2: that place as well too, in that state, and hey,
Speaker 2: like they're a big name organization. So the MAVs again,
Speaker 2: the new owners, whether or not they want to move
Speaker 2: the team or whatever the case to be. I'm not
Speaker 2: really buying any of that. It's just I think they
Speaker 2: would have I don't think I know they could find
Speaker 2: the money, they could make it work, but if they
Speaker 2: didn't want a histor wagon there. But I don't want
Speaker 2: to relitigate all that because I think you're talking about
Speaker 2: the Nico stuff now. It's hey, that was one thing
Speaker 2: and we are having we're forced, if you will, to
Speaker 2: kind of put it all into one kind of one situation.
Speaker 2: And because Luke who traded, that's why Kyrie got hurt,
Speaker 2: That's why eighty Like, that's these are not things that
Speaker 2: are related, right, They'd happened in the same season, but
Speaker 2: one did not cause the other. And that's where I
Speaker 2: think at this point it's a little unfair to Nico.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, he started what
Speaker 2: was like this absolute crap storm of you know, kind
Speaker 2: of vitriol surrounding the MAVs organization. Then they have a
Speaker 2: thing where they're going to raise ticket prices as well too.
Speaker 2: So there's been missteps every every whish way, but injuries
Speaker 2: is not Nico Harrison's fault. However, the MAVs are in
Speaker 2: a rough, rough situation here now and ironically, and I
Speaker 2: know again it's funny because I'm not I'm not the
Speaker 2: tank king here at all. But I think at this stage,
Speaker 2: from a public perception standpoint, losing games now would make sense.
Speaker 2: And again I'm not telling them to go do that,
Speaker 2: but if they could somehow fumble their way into a
Speaker 2: top five draft pick as they fall out, that could
Speaker 2: salvage some of the just discourse that has happened here
Speaker 2: within the last month and a half, like that, to
Speaker 2: me could be something that at least MAVs fans could
Speaker 2: hope on. It was like, all right, well we went
Speaker 2: through all this crap, but at least we have a
Speaker 2: chance that you know, Ace Bailey or Cooper Flag or
Speaker 2: something like that. And I'll see if Jason Kidd and
Speaker 2: company have the chops in essence to do that, because
Speaker 2: I don't think that this is not where the maps
Speaker 2: expected to be. We all know that. But life comes
Speaker 2: at you fast, and now what are you gonna do
Speaker 2: with the information that you have?
Speaker 1: Look, I hear where you're coming from, shaw I me,
Speaker 1: you know me and I'm just I just don't buy
Speaker 1: into that crap. I think just the idea of just
Speaker 1: going out there and losing, I think, is it not
Speaker 1: to to go and lose. But let's just say, if
Speaker 1: they win any more games, we're saying that it's not
Speaker 1: going to help them. And where I beg to differ
Speaker 1: is that is why you have fifteen men on a roster. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know how you expect to even only win
Speaker 1: with just the five or six guys you've got. You
Speaker 1: clearly have seen that if you don't have a complete
Speaker 1: basketball team, you're not winning, point blank period. You ask
Speaker 1: the Dallas Mavericks, ask the Denver Nuggets, right, And if
Speaker 1: you're lucky and you keep the guys that got you
Speaker 1: to where you weren't expected to get to the year previously,
Speaker 1: you should be actually better. And then with some of
Speaker 1: the guys that you draft or you bring in through
Speaker 1: the G League, wherever you're getting your players, they should
Speaker 1: be inspired to go out there and play above their
Speaker 1: minds in order to put you in a better position
Speaker 1: or a better spot. I said all of that to
Speaker 1: say this Shaw. While I appreciate the greatest of intentions
Speaker 1: of what Michael Thompson said, I also feel like it's
Speaker 1: a slap in the face to all of those other
Speaker 1: players out there that are going through what apparently he's
Speaker 1: protecting hisself. I'm not and I'm not dissing Michael t.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is sometimes some things how they're said
Speaker 1: and the way that they're being said, while they're only great,
Speaker 1: like they're good for their intentions for what that's supposed
Speaker 1: to say, it also could do damage. Because I can
Speaker 1: just make the same equal argument, nothing about Klay Thompson's
Speaker 1: season this year has benefited neither him nor the Dallas Mavericks,
Speaker 1: right like, if not, if anything, he is so dependent
Speaker 1: on those other two guys that make him look great
Speaker 1: that why didn't you just basically for the lesser money,
Speaker 1: stay with the with the with the Golden State Warriors,
Speaker 1: Right Like. I'm just saying that sometimes the way that
Speaker 1: you comment those things can actually prove to be an
Speaker 1: indirect level of disrespect. And you look at guys like
Speaker 1: Naji Marshall right now and Williams and those guys who
Speaker 1: are going through it just like Clay and in many
Speaker 1: regards are outperforming what we're getting from Klay Thompson. So
Speaker 1: that's the reason why I'm just like, damn, you know,
Speaker 1: if I'm Jason Kidd and I gotta put guys out
Speaker 1: there that I know is gonna go out there and competing.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying Clay isn't competing, but he clearly is
Speaker 1: going to be at it. He's gonna put us at
Speaker 1: a disadvantage leaving him out there and he can't defend anyone.
Speaker 1: You know, there's no matchup that's really making him favorable
Speaker 1: and stuff. I'm just like, man, this this, it would
Speaker 1: just go all wrong. I just found it interesting that
Speaker 1: I get why Michael Thompson was doing what he's doing,
Speaker 1: but I also felt like, damn man, Guys like Marshall,
Speaker 1: who is not even getting minutes at the beginning of
Speaker 1: the season. Now they have to depend on him, and
Speaker 1: he's going out there and he's actually putting up good numbers.
Speaker 1: He's actually a great contributor. Like I would hate to
Speaker 1: see that those guys are working their ass off just
Speaker 1: for the idea that they should really be losing. They
Speaker 1: they're not good, they're not good enough team. But they
Speaker 1: got to get those guys to perform.
Speaker 2: It might it might happen regardless right, So I think
Speaker 2: you know what you're saying where it can marry. What
Speaker 2: I'm saying is like, it doesn't mean that they stop
Speaker 2: developing the guys that they have, right. I don't think
Speaker 2: these guys are good enough to compete for a playoff
Speaker 2: you know spot, really, I mean, we're not a playoff spot.
Speaker 2: But again, and if they were to stink in based
Speaker 2: on what they've already done the season, and then I
Speaker 2: know they're just gonna get Bunce in the first round anyway,
Speaker 2: So is it worth that that level of pressure, that
Speaker 2: level of exposure versus, hey, you know, these last fifteen games,
Speaker 2: we really get an extended run on them, then they
Speaker 2: get into the playoffs and lose anyway. I think you
Speaker 2: can debate the merits of that, but I think either
Speaker 2: way they're going to be in a development phase for
Speaker 2: whatever whoever is available to play.
Speaker 1: Would I would say Shaw to that point of what
Speaker 1: you're saying is if your intended you're trying to rush
Speaker 1: these guys back from their injuries. You're trying to rush
Speaker 1: Daniel Gafford and PJ. Washington and Kyrie Irving, you know,
Speaker 1: in these guys back from their injuries, like Kyrie obviously
Speaker 1: not because of this a torn acl but I'm saying
Speaker 1: you're trying to rush these guys because you need them
Speaker 1: for the playoffs. No, like if these guys have had
Speaker 1: a have had a storied past of injuries that have
Speaker 1: piled up on them and stuff like that. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not advocating that you rush these guys back in there
Speaker 1: for the sake of them getting bounced. But I do
Speaker 1: think though that the guys that you have out there,
Speaker 1: This is on Jason Kidd to get as much as
Speaker 1: you can out of these guys, because guess what, unless
Speaker 1: they're on one year deals, they're gonna be on your roster.
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to figure out a way to get
Speaker 1: them to help contribute somehow, some way. And by doing
Speaker 1: it in the midst of telling people, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: they you know, I'm not saying you but they should
Speaker 1: go out there and they should basically be tanking and
Speaker 1: losing and stuff like that, I just think it's counterintuitive
Speaker 1: because it's basically saying, no matter after your first five guys,
Speaker 1: or if your first six guys, everybody else can just
Speaker 1: be replaceable. And again, name me where in the last five, six,
Speaker 1: seven years that has constituted a team who's fresh off
Speaker 1: of getting to the NBA Finals has been able to
Speaker 1: repeat that same task without having the bulk majority of
Speaker 1: your roster from the previous year a part of that
Speaker 1: roster for the current year in order for you to
Speaker 1: make that actual run.
Speaker 2: I mean, I get it, right, I do, And so
Speaker 2: Dallas has some decisions to make here in the short term.
Speaker 2: I ultimately think I'm gonna stand on I said, it
Speaker 2: may not really matter. I agree with Michael Thompson's statement,
Speaker 2: is like they're just not gonna be good enough with
Speaker 2: whoever is there. I mean, they signed Moses Brown and
Speaker 2: then he promptly got hurt, so it.
Speaker 1: Was just like cursed.
Speaker 2: It is not even cursed, it's just it's it's a
Speaker 2: wild situation. So I think even guys who are both
Speaker 2: you know, long term fits and short term ones, uh,
Speaker 2: they'll they'll take looks at them and see whether what
Speaker 2: they'll be able to do. But I don't think this
Speaker 2: is going to be a competitive basketball team where it's
Speaker 2: really going to matter in terms of the playoffs, and
Speaker 2: they may uh intentionally or unintentionally end up tanking through
Speaker 2: the remainer part of the season.
Speaker 1: It's gonna hurt when we have to put the MAVs
Speaker 1: on the slab Broy.
Speaker 2: They're coming up for sure, absolutely all right.
Speaker 1: So finally the Knicks nicked up. Jalen Brunson suffers an
Speaker 1: ankle sprain, so he's out for a few weeks. If
Speaker 1: you're the New York Knicks, right, how do you approach
Speaker 1: where you need to be in order for when Jalen
Speaker 1: Brunson is ready to return or set to return, that
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to be competitive enough for
Speaker 1: the runs that you're gonna make.
Speaker 2: Well, the real answer is it is not going to
Speaker 2: happen because Tims is just gonna all right, Well, I
Speaker 2: have to play one and more guy now too, But
Speaker 2: really those minutes should be split up, and you're diving
Speaker 2: into more aspects of what that Knixt bench and roster is.
Speaker 2: You talk about the MAVs being bagged up and being
Speaker 2: forced to Tibbs is not going to be forced in
Speaker 2: anything if he'd go out there and play himself. I
Speaker 2: guess before he plays some of those guys on his
Speaker 2: you know, thirteenth or fourteenth man, he's he's just really
Speaker 2: rooted in kind of that methodology. So share a guy
Speaker 2: like duce McBride may get some more minutes, Hart will
Speaker 2: probably do some more play creation he are now and
Speaker 2: handle the ball on a more regular basis.
Speaker 1: In the beginning of the year, Ducee McBride was getting
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, a lot of press time.
Speaker 2: He still gets run.
Speaker 1: But is it just me or has it has it
Speaker 1: just kind of dissipated like I would have figured at
Speaker 1: some point. Now we have this rhythm of talking about
Speaker 1: duce McBride being, you know, kind of like the emanual
Speaker 1: Quickly for that team. And you know, when there were
Speaker 1: numerous injuries, even when they didn't have Jalen Brunson, Emmanuel
Speaker 1: Quickly had always stepped in and it had always been
Speaker 1: a spark plug, had always been, you know, the kind
Speaker 1: of guy to really kind of help, you know, elevate
Speaker 1: the knicks in certain points. I mean, clearly, he's not
Speaker 1: something that he's shown you he can do it through
Speaker 1: the course of regular season. But I'm just a little
Speaker 1: surprised that that Deuce McBride is not He's not he's
Speaker 1: not elevated himself to a level where it's it's something
Speaker 1: that we're talking about a little bit more constantly.
Speaker 2: It's like I mean, I mean, I would disagree. I mean,
Speaker 2: get twenty four minutes a night, so I think that's
Speaker 2: gonna but it's not the.
Speaker 1: Minutes though show. I guess it's not so much the minutes.
Speaker 1: I'm talking about this. I guess the impact, the impact
Speaker 1: player that he is, it just seems it's muted in
Speaker 1: other words, like you know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, well, I think there's there's an opportunity now
Speaker 2: for that to shine because they're cleanly gonna need offense, right,
Speaker 2: you can have heart handle as much as you want.
Speaker 2: You can even have campaign and give him some warm
Speaker 2: minutes God for God bless. But I think where the
Speaker 2: points are going to come from are guys like Duce McBride,
Speaker 2: you know, specifically. And it also opens up for an
Speaker 2: opportunity for Bridges who's been black for a better phrase. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he's averaging seventeen a game, but like like you talk
Speaker 2: about something not feeling impactful, it really does feel like
Speaker 2: he's been kind of going through the motions out there
Speaker 2: a lot of times.
Speaker 1: Especially empty calories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just it hasn't been great, and then the
Speaker 2: defense hasn't been I think what the Knicks would have expected,
Speaker 2: so OG I think has been a one hundred times
Speaker 2: more impactful than the Bridges has been, even though Bridges
Speaker 2: averages more points per game than OG does. But anyway,
Speaker 2: McBride will have an opportunity, campaign will lot for an opportunity,
Speaker 2: and hopefully Jayleen Brunson is back on the court soon.
Speaker 2: Ironically before we transition, you know, Brunston's injury happens in
Speaker 2: the Laker game, in an overtime game that you know,
Speaker 2: either way one of those teams should have won, probably
Speaker 2: in regulation, and it doesn't go that way. Just injuries
Speaker 2: happened when they happen, And then you know Lebron now
Speaker 2: is also going to be out one to two weeks
Speaker 2: with the growing injury. You know the Lakers side too,
Speaker 2: who talked a little bit about in the beginning too.
Speaker 2: So hopefully both of these major stars can return to
Speaker 2: form and return to forms quickly as both their teams
Speaker 2: need them here heading into the playoffs.
Speaker 1: Absolutely your tuned to the baseline. Cali Warrenshaw discussing the
Speaker 1: hot button topics of the NBA coming up. We got
Speaker 1: a quick little who you got can't wait for this
Speaker 1: one man. We're taking our man kill a cade Tyrese Haliburton. Oh,
Speaker 1: this is a good one. You do not want to
Speaker 1: miss out here on the baseline, we're back Cali Warrenshaw
Speaker 1: basedline NBA podcast. Time for a little who you got
Speaker 1: shout outs to our man dress from Black Sheep. You
Speaker 1: can get with this, you can get with that, So
Speaker 1: we can get with this. Our man Kate Cunningham right,
Speaker 1: cornerstone player, building black player. Now for the Detroit Pistons,
Speaker 1: we can get with that. Tyreese Halliburton, Sacramento Kings had
Speaker 1: probably wish they still had him. Sacramento Kings had him right,
Speaker 1: moved him over to Indiana. He's essentially a building black
Speaker 1: player for those Indiana Pacers. I've at it, my man, Shaw,
Speaker 1: what you got?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the conversation is one of those where you
Speaker 2: try to pick one but not, you know, just completely
Speaker 2: dis thegether. It's like, Hey, I'd be happy with either
Speaker 2: one of these guys, you know, on my roster, you know,
Speaker 2: being one of my lead guys. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 2: and Kate is what he came in. A year after Halliburton,
Speaker 2: I feel like trying not to be a prisoner of
Speaker 2: the moment in terms of how great Caids season has
Speaker 2: been and where he's led this Pistons team from the underbellies,
Speaker 2: if you will, of the lottery into now what should
Speaker 2: be almost a secure spot in the Eastern Conference playoffs.
Speaker 2: But I like Kid's size. I like his ability to
Speaker 2: score a little bit more with with a little bit
Speaker 2: more uh versatility offensively, whereas I think Tyrese is not
Speaker 2: necessarily limited. But I just like, again the size that
Speaker 2: Kid has is going to allow him to be able
Speaker 2: to do some more stuff, including posting up other and
Speaker 2: smaller guards. Halliburn's going to shoot the three probably had
Speaker 2: a higher clip traditionally of Loki to shooting it really
Speaker 2: really really well this season. But I think Halliburn still
Speaker 2: has the vision on him in terms of, you know,
Speaker 2: of diming and diming other guys. And I'll even give
Speaker 2: Tyrese a slight edge in terms of what his leadership
Speaker 2: qualities are right now. But I think if you're paying
Speaker 2: attention this year and even how veteran guys are rallying
Speaker 2: around Kid and saying, hey, he's our guy, we need
Speaker 2: to get him the ball, we need to have him
Speaker 2: lead us, We're starting to see those things really truly
Speaker 2: developed and what he's doing from, you know, not only
Speaker 2: a leadership standpoint, but also obviously the satistical standpoint. You know,
Speaker 2: those intangibles are starting to skew more towards Kid. So
Speaker 2: last year, this conversation is probably open and shut for
Speaker 2: most people because Halliburton was taking the world by storm,
Speaker 2: and I think Aliburton is becoming a little bit of
Speaker 2: an afterthought here this year, although the Pacers are you know,
Speaker 2: right there and thick of things in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 2: But for my money, where I am right now here today,
Speaker 2: I do like Kate Cunningham slightly better and I'd pick
Speaker 2: him over Tyrese Halliburton simply because of the size and
Speaker 2: I think the versatility that could be able to give
Speaker 2: us offensively with comparable stats, you know, assists wise, he's
Speaker 2: better rebounded than Tyree is currently at this stage as
Speaker 2: well too, And I think those leadership qualities as alluded
Speaker 2: to our are magnifying and coming into full, full, full view.
Speaker 2: And like I said, we may get this as a
Speaker 2: first round matchup, so we would really be amazing to
Speaker 2: kind of see if these two guys go against each
Speaker 2: other and who would come out victorious.
Speaker 1: Who you got up until I was pretty certain I
Speaker 1: was going to stick with Tyrese Haliburton. You know, Mishaw,
Speaker 1: I've been a Tyrese Haliburton fan since the draft. I've
Speaker 1: said that he was one of the most slept on
Speaker 1: players that the New York Knicks should have had, and
Speaker 1: I said that, you know, he would have been a
Speaker 1: perfect fit for what the New York Knicks needed at
Speaker 1: that time frame as the point guard position. I will
Speaker 1: give you the nod on everything that Kate Cunningham is
Speaker 1: exhibited so far in his early career that I don't
Speaker 1: know if whether or not Tyrese Haliburton has had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to be able to exhibit those same type of
Speaker 1: qualities at a high level. I think we saw glimpses
Speaker 1: of it in Sacramento, and then suddenly part of that
Speaker 1: narrative shifted when he went to the Indiana Pacers. And
Speaker 1: then now he's catapulted himself where he has become this
Speaker 1: explosive score because he is capable of, you know, of exploding.
Speaker 1: Whereas Kate Cunningham in a way reminds me a little
Speaker 1: bit like SGA. He subtly gives you forty points. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying he's not. His explosive game doesn't
Speaker 1: resonate the same way as a person like Tyre's Halliburt.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's the demeanor, maybe it's his style of play,
Speaker 1: but I will say that Kay Cunningham, and I am
Speaker 1: a person of when it comes to the game of
Speaker 1: basketball and you're at that level, brutal efficiency to me
Speaker 1: speaks and resonates loudly. And I think that's why I've
Speaker 1: become a fan of Sga is because the way he
Speaker 1: goes about scoring that basketball is with brutal efficiency. Right.
Speaker 1: He is true to his ability to shoot the mid
Speaker 1: range and kill you to death with it, and then
Speaker 1: he'll sprinkle in shooting the three, but he does not
Speaker 1: have to be dependent on the three, whereas with Tyree's Halliburton.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I thought that a lot of it
Speaker 1: was more about his size and the effect that he
Speaker 1: could take advantage of smaller guards. He doesn't really do that.
Speaker 1: And his explosion last year was because of his ability
Speaker 1: to just basically shoot the lights out from the three,
Speaker 1: Like he was taking ridiculous three point shots, like from anywhere,
Speaker 1: and it was just like, oh my God, like you
Speaker 1: know this guy, like he suddenly has become effective three
Speaker 1: point shooter and stuff, And I feel like now that
Speaker 1: part of it has kind of gone away. I think
Speaker 1: that they have defended him a little bit better, and
Speaker 1: he had gotten off to a slow start, and so
Speaker 1: now you're beginning to see a little bit of the
Speaker 1: chink in the armor, Like, is there a lot of
Speaker 1: versatility to his game if it's not the way that
Speaker 1: he dictates, Whereas Kate Cunningham has been an amba bro,
Speaker 1: Like he mixes and matches and finds his way to
Speaker 1: get the points necessary while also leading his team to
Speaker 1: those victories and stuff. So I'm gonna lean on this
Speaker 1: in the sense that I see more versatility in a
Speaker 1: Kay Cunningham. Who knows, if I was talking about a
Speaker 1: more explosive player right now, I would definitely still give
Speaker 1: it to Tyrese Haliburton. But I think for the all
Speaker 1: around game, I lean more to Kate Cunningham because you're
Speaker 1: seeing all that and you're seeing how all those other
Speaker 1: things outside of assist to your point, rebounding the basketball,
Speaker 1: you know, the defense of fifty to fifty playballs. There
Speaker 1: are there's certain other things that he's doing from a
Speaker 1: statistical standpoint that makes his game resonate a lot more
Speaker 1: than what I'm seeing from Tyreese Halliburton. And I'm not
Speaker 1: saying that to say that Tyreese is not capable. I'm
Speaker 1: saying that, like, clearly, what he's doing in Indiana has
Speaker 1: afforded him the ability to not deal with the level
Speaker 1: of consistency that I think is needed for them to
Speaker 1: be as good as they were supposed to be. And
Speaker 1: you can clearly see that that part is because there's
Speaker 1: still weaknesses to Tyressee's game that we still need to
Speaker 1: see evolve as he continues to become that lead guard
Speaker 1: for the Indiana Pacers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think where Tyree still now, I don't think
Speaker 2: I know where Tyree still has kid is instill the
Speaker 2: overall decision making. They have slightly similar, well not quietly
Speaker 2: slightly similar usages, Like Caid has more usage than then
Speaker 2: Tyree does because he's just asked you more. He truly
Speaker 2: is like the offensive hub for the Pistons in the
Speaker 2: way that Halliburton is just not burdened with I think
Speaker 2: at this time because he yat comes a little bit
Speaker 2: well established and so forth and so forth. So Kate
Speaker 2: averaging like four and a half turnovers is pretty absurd, right, like,
Speaker 2: that's that's that's that can't stay. And that's why I
Speaker 2: said earlier, I think Halliburton has the decision making and
Speaker 2: you know, ahead of him right now. But that's not
Speaker 2: to say that won't change and can't change and won't
Speaker 2: change here in the upcoming season. So again, without being
Speaker 2: in prison of the moment, Kate is having a more
Speaker 2: impactful season even statistically speaking turnovers aside than than Tyre says.
Speaker 2: But the huge Gott premise is really like what no,
Speaker 2: who would you who would you rather have? Like moving forward?
Speaker 2: And that's why I think because of Kate's versatility offensively
Speaker 2: and then you could you would at least think that
Speaker 2: he could apply some of that because he is trying
Speaker 2: defensively under JB. Bickerstaff here now as well too, that
Speaker 2: that can be something where you know, he could really
Speaker 2: be a perennial All Star and an All NBA guy.
Speaker 2: And Halliburton is going to be right there, you know,
Speaker 2: nudging alongside and for some of those things. But I'm
Speaker 2: more skeptical about Halliburton's long term prospects as a defender
Speaker 2: and his long term prospects, you know, to be able
Speaker 2: to really really score at different levels. He's got the three,
Speaker 2: he can shoot the floor, he can obviously get in,
Speaker 2: get in and drive and get passed by some guys,
Speaker 2: and maybe some of the hurricue jerkiness and maybe some
Speaker 2: of the awkwardness of even the release, you know, the
Speaker 2: aesthetics of Halliburton's game, Maybe that detracts for for me
Speaker 2: some But that's not a real that's not a real situation, right,
Speaker 2: Like that's just a preference, right. But I think Halliburton
Speaker 2: is still very much on track to be right there
Speaker 2: behind Kate. But I would just take Kde long term
Speaker 2: because of all the reasons I lied, especially with the
Speaker 2: size and the Bruges toly Offene.
Speaker 1: One thing that I will say, shaw and again I
Speaker 1: lean to this because when I look at Tyre's Halliburton,
Speaker 1: he really should have an advantage over other guards because
Speaker 1: of his length and size. But he does not play
Speaker 1: below the rim. He doesn't, you know. Now, maybe that's
Speaker 1: just because of scheme, maybe that's because of the fact
Speaker 1: that he has Pascal Siakam, But I think that lends
Speaker 1: to the point that I was making earlier about his
Speaker 1: struggles this year has been masked by the explosiveness of
Speaker 1: Pascal Siakam and his offensive presence, It's kind of given tyre.
Speaker 1: He's Halliburton a little bit of cover. Had we seen
Speaker 1: the same numbers replicated from what he was doing last
Speaker 1: year now, we still would not be taught. We would
Speaker 1: not be eye highlighting. Where if he was struggling as
Speaker 1: he's been struggling shooting the basketball beyond the arc and
Speaker 1: everything like that, somebody would be like, get your ass
Speaker 1: down in the block and start taking advantage of some
Speaker 1: of these smaller guards. He just refuses to do that.
Speaker 1: And I never worry about that With a guy like
Speaker 1: Kay Cunningham. His game was built like that when he
Speaker 1: came out of is It Oklahoma State. I believe that
Speaker 1: he had that game even when he was in college,
Speaker 1: and so like that to me shows me when he
Speaker 1: doesn't have his jumper, you know, working for him, he'll
Speaker 1: go down there and he'll find advantages in other ways.
Speaker 1: To your point, Halliburton's headiness as a guard and his
Speaker 1: ability to facilitate and get guys like Siakam off, Turner off,
Speaker 1: Nate ne Smith off, you know them hard and those
Speaker 1: guys off, That to me is what resonates with me
Speaker 1: in the type of you know, leadership qualities that Tyrese
Speaker 1: Haliburton can exhibit, but the all around package, to your point, Shaw,
Speaker 1: I lean a little bit more because it's not like
Speaker 1: Kid doesn't have that. He just doesn't have those kind
Speaker 1: of players on his roster, so he has to come.
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you can make I mean, the
Speaker 2: argument could be made, right because if I was going
Speaker 2: back to what I was just saying in terms of usage,
Speaker 2: you know, it's it's it's more significant than I was
Speaker 2: even going off of my brain. Right, So Caid's usage
Speaker 2: is like thirty percent, thirty two percent, Haliburn's only at
Speaker 2: twenty one and a half. Right, So if you flip
Speaker 2: flop those right, Halliburton does is he a twenty five
Speaker 2: point per game guy probably, you know with that level
Speaker 2: of usage, And he's probably a thirteen or fourteen as
Speaker 2: this guy you know with that same some level usage.
Speaker 2: Their teams are set up differently currently. But I still
Speaker 2: still still think that I would I would choose Kid
Speaker 2: over Tyree's long term. And again that's not to downgrade
Speaker 2: Tyres in any capacity, because I think he's been a
Speaker 2: he's a great player and has a great future. But yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, I think we and we've seen tyres On
Speaker 2: on the big stage and he's done. He's done some
Speaker 2: things right, you know, even from last year in the
Speaker 2: NBA Cup and then getting all the way to the
Speaker 2: Eastern Conference finals last year and given the Celtics all
Speaker 2: they could handle. Yes, it was the sweep, but it
Speaker 2: was a competitive one, you know, to say the least.
Speaker 2: And then he went out in that series. But what
Speaker 2: he did in the Knicks in the garden, you know,
Speaker 2: to close out that. Like so I'm anxious to see
Speaker 2: where Kate And maybe it's a more fair conversation after
Speaker 2: we see Kate in the playoffs to kind of figure
Speaker 2: out what that would look like. And so maybe it's premature,
Speaker 2: but I think for where we are right now, I'm
Speaker 2: pretty comfortable in my selection of kid cutting him.
Speaker 1: All right, Well, there you go. It's a it's a sweep,
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying, killer Kay being taken, But
Speaker 1: it's it's a sweep. But it's very narrow, very very narrow.
Speaker 1: I don't think I don't think we'd be completely disappointed.
Speaker 1: It's put of like this, if there's a if Kate
Speaker 1: Cunningham came on ten years later, I think we would
Speaker 1: be putting Tyreese Halliburton up against a lot of other
Speaker 1: guys that we'd probably be taking Tyreez Haliburt and more
Speaker 1: so than we you know, more so than we we
Speaker 1: have someone like Kate, you see. But that's why we
Speaker 1: have you, Shaw, because you got to make those tough
Speaker 1: decisions to put those guys in that box for us,
Speaker 1: for us to make that selection.
Speaker 2: My friend, listen, I'll just I'll triple quadruple down on this.
Speaker 2: If we can get those two teams to somehow meet
Speaker 2: the first offs, that would be that would be the
Speaker 2: thing right where we could really see those two great
Speaker 2: guards going up against each other. So it's a very
Speaker 2: real possibility.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: Uh, they are separated I think by a half game
Speaker 2: or so between four, five and six. So right now
Speaker 2: today it's Bucks versus Pacers. But again that is basically
Speaker 2: a half game difference. So let's see and morewards a
Speaker 2: black sheep and you can get a scoop.
Speaker 1: Awesome show this week. Shaw. A lot of stuff we covered, man,
Speaker 1: but man, some good, good, good discussions to be had,
Speaker 1: good fought a foot of for the ear lobes and
Speaker 1: stuff like that. Man and you know, this is why
Speaker 1: we we like this stretch of NB being happening, man,
Speaker 1: because it's not just what's going on on the court, brother,
Speaker 1: it's also what's happening off the court as well too.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, so kudos to you for taking the lead here
Speaker 2: to help us get through the latter part of this
Speaker 2: NBA season in terms of the content that we're going
Speaker 2: to cover. Been loving you know, the vibe that we've
Speaker 2: been having, the vibe that we always have too. But
Speaker 2: you know, you've been do an amazing job, I think
Speaker 2: as a lead content credit here for the baseline here
Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks, so I want to give
Speaker 2: you your flowers in that space. But yes, the NBA
Speaker 2: continues to give what it gives and we will be
Speaker 2: here throughout the course. Special guests coming up for the
Speaker 2: latter part of the season. I'm sure, new collaborations we
Speaker 2: do what we do here on the baseline through nineteen
Speaker 2: Media group. Man, it excited to be here with you
Speaker 2: and here what our fans have to listen, what our
Speaker 2: fans listeners have to say. So let us know what
Speaker 2: you think about you know, the who you got Kate
Speaker 2: Cunningham versus Harry's Haliburton, thoughts on Jellen Brunson, thoughts on
Speaker 2: Lebron being out as well, two thoughts on the MVP race.
Speaker 2: Joker SGA it's all bubblings and.
Speaker 1: Jason Tatum you were bringing fire, my friend. You know
Speaker 1: what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: I do appreciate that. Yeah, yeah, give us thoughts to
Speaker 2: Are you tired of the JT slander? Or are you
Speaker 2: and the JT slander? You know, boat like you want
Speaker 2: to say, no, he deserves all this hate that he's
Speaker 2: getting it. If you are, you can probably know it
Speaker 2: pretty much. Man, Listen, at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: we'd love to have a conversation.
Speaker 1: Hey, listen, I'm all for I'm all for having hal
Speaker 1: Jordan on our podcast. You know what I'm saying. You
Speaker 1: know what I'm saying, my man, Green Lantern people right
Speaker 1: about that, loving.
Speaker 2: It absolutely Shulman that movie right now, I can't wave.
Speaker 1: All right man. Hey, as always, man, thank you for
Speaker 1: listening in for the baseline, Gollie Warren shall We appreciate
Speaker 1: you guys, you know we do, and we'll catch up
Speaker 1: with you next time.