Speaker 1: Welcome to Farmer Talk Radio. This podcast is focused on
Speaker 1: building up a CMO team as your company evolves from
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty five Chief Medical Officer summ at three sixty.
Speaker 1: For more information on the CMO Summit, editorials, podcasts, or webcasts,
Speaker 1: please visit CMO three sixty dot org. Thank you and
Speaker 1: enjoy the podcast.
Speaker 2: I you know, personally think that once you've assessed the
Speaker 2: portfolio and pipeline, that this is actually one of the
Speaker 2: more exciting tasks one has as especially an incoming CMO.
Speaker 3: And so you know, amongst.
Speaker 2: The colleagues that are seated with me, there are decades
Speaker 2: of experience in all different types of companies.
Speaker 3: So I'm really looking forward to hearing what people have
Speaker 3: to say.
Speaker 2: To get us started. We'll do introductions. Well, we'll start
Speaker 2: with introductions. So I'm Harold Bernstein. I'm the president of
Speaker 2: R and D and also act as the CMO at
Speaker 2: Maze Therapeutics, where a mostly small molecule precision medicine company
Speaker 2: using genetics to inform therapeutics.
Speaker 4: Hi, Harold, my name is Jing Morn.
Speaker 5: I'm the chief Medical Officer of Scalaroc, which is an
Speaker 5: unusual name. We are a late stage clinic late clinical
Speaker 5: stage company that really focused on TTF beta superfamily. We
Speaker 5: have been fortunate recently had a positive phase re readout.
Speaker 4: We filed our BLA and MAA.
Speaker 5: I've been in the industry for two and a half decades,
Speaker 5: just myself alone.
Speaker 6: That's how all val am raw Lima. I'm EVP of
Speaker 6: clinops for Inception Group. I've been there about three years,
Speaker 6: although the relevant experience that I bring to the table
Speaker 6: today is prior to that about twenty years in various
Speaker 6: levels of clinical operations, and really the last fifteen years
Speaker 6: as v EP of clinical ops for very very small
Speaker 6: biotech in gene therapy and rare diseases.
Speaker 7: Mostly I am Dan Bloomfield. I've been the CMO of
Speaker 7: Anthos Therapeutics, which last Thursday became Anthos and the Artist Company.
Speaker 7: I had a long background at Merk and they moved
Speaker 7: about to take about six years ago. Seven years ago,
Speaker 7: two years at Carduran, and now at Anthos. We've been
Speaker 7: developing a factor of eleven inhibitor and antibody four professional
Speaker 7: stroke and a treatment of DVTMP.
Speaker 8: Good. Is it good evening or a good afternoon? I'm
Speaker 8: not sure In any case, you're still awake, So this
Speaker 8: is delightful. Matt Frankel, chief Medical Officer of Kimo MAAB.
Speaker 8: We are developing a chemic well a monoclone antibody to
Speaker 8: a chemic kine CCL twenty four, instrumental in both inflammation
Speaker 8: and fibrosis, and we recently concluded our phase two open
Speaker 8: label successfully in patients with primary scrossing coloningitis and preparing
Speaker 8: for our phase three at this time.
Speaker 3: Great thank you so to get us started.
Speaker 2: I'm a firm believer in not bearing the headline, so
Speaker 2: I thought we'd start off with the take home message
Speaker 2: and give everyone up here a chance to just provide
Speaker 2: one sort of key learning or take home that you've gleaned.
Speaker 2: And then, of course, I think what we recognized in
Speaker 2: our pre conversations is that there's so many different circumstances
Speaker 2: that require different approaches, and we'll get into that. So
Speaker 2: I'll start off, and from my perspective, I think, especially
Speaker 2: when you're coming in as the CMO again, after you've
Speaker 2: seen the scope of the pipeline and what are the
Speaker 2: near term deliverables, it's really to assess who you have
Speaker 2: on your team and make some decisions in fairly short
Speaker 2: order about whether you have the right people that you're
Speaker 2: working with, and that if you don't have the right
Speaker 2: people or capabilities, how are you going to fill that
Speaker 2: and have a plan for you know, whether that's going
Speaker 2: to take the strategy of hiring versus engaging with consultants.
Speaker 3: Okay, so maybe we'll start with Matt at the other end.
Speaker 8: All right, So I'm going to actually start off with
Speaker 8: a question, because this, you know, we've got to make
Speaker 8: this interactive. And the question is how many of you
Speaker 8: have hired someone too early?
Speaker 5: Okay?
Speaker 8: Very few? How many of you have hired people too late?
Speaker 8: All right? A few more people. So my answer is
Speaker 8: it depends. And I think the point that you have
Speaker 8: to realize, as you, as I've certainly realized, is that
Speaker 8: each of us are going to make decisions where we're
Speaker 8: either too early or too late. But each of us
Speaker 8: has to realize that there's something that drives us toward
Speaker 8: that of making the decision and we have to go
Speaker 8: for it. So that's my point is at some point
Speaker 8: you're going to have to feel like you got to
Speaker 8: do it, and then you do it.
Speaker 7: So I'll follow on that and say that I having
Speaker 7: just been through an experience where we're hired too late
Speaker 7: that I think there's a cost of hiring too early,
Speaker 7: but there's a much bigger cost of hiring too late.
Speaker 7: And need to think about where you're going and what's
Speaker 7: go set you'll need as you move forward is critically
Speaker 7: important and for cmos, many cmos like myself who grew
Speaker 7: up in pharma, don't know what you don't know about
Speaker 7: getting things done because they're all done for you by
Speaker 7: the armies of people out there, and not knowing those
Speaker 7: things is really it really becomes problematic unless you have
Speaker 7: folks around you to help mentor you and help you
Speaker 7: see the light.
Speaker 6: So to jump on that, I'm often one of those
Speaker 6: people who is really meant to make all of those
Speaker 6: things happen and make it seem like I'm ashe did it.
Speaker 6: And my driving piece of advice, especially for new cmos
Speaker 6: and very small companies, almost regardless where you are, if
Speaker 6: they're hiring a CMO, that means they're really close to
Speaker 6: getting to clinic. You should get yourself a lieutenant in
Speaker 6: clinops effectively immediately right at least one person. You don't
Speaker 6: have to build a huge team, but get somebody who
Speaker 6: knows how to translate between the science and you and
Speaker 6: then the vendors that you're going to be hiring somebody
Speaker 6: who can handle the contracting and those negotiations, because the
Speaker 6: finer points of those details are incredibly, incredibly important, and
Speaker 6: your jobs are too big. You shouldn't be in that
Speaker 6: level of weeds. So find somebody who can do that
Speaker 6: for you and get a good lieutenant. If I can
Speaker 6: get you to do one thing, it's that one.
Speaker 5: I agree with my colleagues. I've hired a lot of
Speaker 5: people over the years. One of the things that I've
Speaker 5: really come to appreciate, deeply value more is phenotype. I
Speaker 5: actually hire much more based on phenotype than resume, because
Speaker 5: the person with the right phenotype, who's a problem solver,
Speaker 5: who's got the critical thinking skills, is going to over
Speaker 5: the long term outrun the person with the right resume,
Speaker 5: with the impressive resume for that matter, but does not
Speaker 5: have the belly, fire in the belly or the right
Speaker 5: culture a fit.
Speaker 3: Great.
Speaker 2: So I think maybe first let's follow up on what
Speaker 2: seemed to be, you know, one of the recurring themes,
Speaker 2: and maybe we can dig in a little bit more
Speaker 2: on how do you know when it's time to actually
Speaker 2: hire in a capability versus using consultants, which which is
Speaker 2: another alternative. And we also just heard a big session
Speaker 2: on fractional capabilities.
Speaker 6: So I think as you're growing what we have found
Speaker 6: success with in the past. In the small companies I've
Speaker 6: been at, very often people are focused on roles, and
Speaker 6: which you really should be, whether it's phenotype or skill set,
Speaker 6: You've got to be thinking about sort of what is
Speaker 6: your vendor strategy and then what skills does my team
Speaker 6: already have and what are we going to need in
Speaker 6: the next six twelve eighteen months, right not the next
Speaker 6: three months, because a lot of what we do have
Speaker 6: twelve eighteen month runways, And so thinking of people less
Speaker 6: as roles. Maybe if you think high level of regulatory
Speaker 6: or clinops or safety or something like, you know, those
Speaker 6: are buckets you can put people in. But in smaller
Speaker 6: companies you're gonna have to wear a lot of hats,
Speaker 6: and so really looking at those skill fits and then
Speaker 6: I do think phenotype and curiosity and that roll up
Speaker 6: your sleeveness is tantamount as paramount for very small companies.
Speaker 6: And so I think if I come back, it's skill
Speaker 6: sets and fit are way way more important than resume
Speaker 6: and roll that that'd be my tagline.
Speaker 5: Then if I could add to what you said, It's
Speaker 5: like when you're building a team, it's like a chess
Speaker 5: board in front of you. You start with the goals,
Speaker 5: like what are you trying to accomplish next year, next
Speaker 5: two years? And then you look at all the gaps
Speaker 5: you have. What do you have already? Hopefully it's not
Speaker 5: just you. It's really hard when you're just starting out
Speaker 5: with end of one. So look at the gaps and
Speaker 5: then think about what gaps are near term gaps, what
Speaker 5: gaps are long term gaps, and then think about that
Speaker 5: sort of the priority of these gaps and time sensitiveness
Speaker 5: of those gaps. And then to Herold's point, which I think,
Speaker 5: you ask yourself the question can you hire someone to
Speaker 5: do you want to hire someone instead of outsourcing that?
Speaker 5: And there are pros and cons to each, and then
Speaker 5: it's like when do you hire those people? And then
Speaker 5: you also take a step back and look at the
Speaker 5: It's a chessboard, so you don't just look at individuals.
Speaker 5: You look at how each individual interact with each other.
Speaker 5: Because it's so important to also look at it from
Speaker 5: a governance model point of view, and how information flows
Speaker 5: from one person to another, how decisions are made, and
Speaker 5: how each individuals interupt with one another. This way, you're
Speaker 5: actually looking at it from a higher level instead of
Speaker 5: just hiring for that individual. So to the point that
Speaker 5: you made about capabilities, it's such an important concept.
Speaker 2: So fte versus a contractor, Dan, do you have any thoughts.
Speaker 7: We ran Anthos pretty lean. We were eight or ten people,
Speaker 7: kind of getting through phase two and had an awful
Speaker 7: lot of contractors and consultants working for us, and we
Speaker 7: were very fortunate that the folks who work for us
Speaker 7: stayed with us pretty much for the entire six years.
Speaker 7: We had a very devoted group of people. But what
Speaker 7: we found was as as things get harder, the work
Speaker 7: becomes a higher risk, higher cost, you begin to realize
Speaker 7: that there are certain roles that you need to count
Speaker 7: on that are critical for the business, and it's really
Speaker 7: important to recognize those roles and then fill those with
Speaker 7: people who are part of your team as opposed to
Speaker 7: people external. But I did find that we had a
Speaker 7: lot of support from companies like SSI and from Halleran
Speaker 7: over the years, which really were helpful because they first
Speaker 7: helped us see the gaps that were coming up, realized
Speaker 7: that we didn't build a certain capability we probably should
Speaker 7: have built. But then they're able to fill in in
Speaker 7: the short term as we kind of hired behind that.
Speaker 7: But I think it becomes you kind of recognize when
Speaker 7: you're too far behind. You're not getting the oversight you want,
Speaker 7: Your roos aren't getting the kind of oversight you need
Speaker 7: them to have. You're relying haveing around people who could
Speaker 7: potentially say goodbye the next day. Luckily for us it
Speaker 7: didn't happen. But when you think about the risk that
Speaker 7: would cause. If you're head of safety, a consultant leaves,
Speaker 7: that's not a great place to be. If you're a
Speaker 7: head of clops leaves, you're dead in the water. So
Speaker 7: you really have to have people who have skin in
Speaker 7: the game and are going to be with you throughout
Speaker 7: the development.
Speaker 8: I'm going to be slightly contradictory and highlight that whether
Speaker 8: someone is a full time employee or a consultant, they
Speaker 8: both can leave tomorrow, and so you have to recognize that.
Speaker 8: You may think that there's some contractual agreement, but there
Speaker 8: really isn't between either one. So don't get too heavily
Speaker 8: weighed on that based on personal experience there. The one
Speaker 8: thing I would add is to be opportunistic associated with
Speaker 8: it because there will be certain instances where and I'll
Speaker 8: give you an example from my past is we had
Speaker 8: someone a former colleague who was very good at safety,
Speaker 8: and I knew that she could do the job, and
Speaker 8: it seemed like a perfect opportunity to bring that person in,
Speaker 8: build out that team, carve it out, and then felt
Speaker 8: very good about and knowledgeable and comfortable and confident that
Speaker 8: we were going to do a great job in that regard,
Speaker 8: and that we had a good rapport initially, so that
Speaker 8: was going to keep going. So be cognizant that there
Speaker 8: may be situations where, based on your extensive background and
Speaker 8: your relationships, you can find those individuals and go, Wow,
Speaker 8: this person is out of a job. Let's see if
Speaker 8: we can scoop him or her up at that moment.
Speaker 7: I can stay. One other thing, which is that it
Speaker 7: takes time to hire really good, talented people, and so
Speaker 7: when you think you need someone now, you're six months
Speaker 7: behind for many roles. And that's where people come in
Speaker 7: as consultants or contracts going to help you bridge that
Speaker 7: but you really have to recognize where do our need
Speaker 7: to have someone full time role do I need and
Speaker 7: then back off from that and realize I'd be a
Speaker 7: going now and maybe you hire too early, but if
Speaker 7: you're hiring good quality of people and you know you're
Speaker 7: going to grow into that role, it's probably okay. But
Speaker 7: there is help in between helping your bridge that bridge
Speaker 7: that period.
Speaker 2: So I want to go back to gingior comment on phenotype.
Speaker 2: Maybe I'm a geneticist, so it struck a chord, but
Speaker 2: I think you know, we've all encountered that. I think
Speaker 2: it'd be great to hear from people.
Speaker 3: Like what is that phenotype? How do you define it?
Speaker 2: And this is sort of more like, you know, not
Speaker 2: necessarily capability or skill specific, but who do you need
Speaker 2: in a company on a team, And maybe it's based
Speaker 2: on where the company.
Speaker 4: Is should I start.
Speaker 5: So I've over the years have had a lot of
Speaker 5: luck hiring people based on phenotype because you could have
Speaker 5: twenty five years of experience doing bad things.
Speaker 4: That doesn't make you any better, right.
Speaker 5: I think that I also don't hire based on knowledge
Speaker 5: because nowadays we'll live in the digital world. Everything is
Speaker 5: at your fingertips, So when I think about phenotype, even
Speaker 5: technical capabilities. I'm looking for that someone who actually is
Speaker 5: not just the person that at a meeting that spews
Speaker 5: out clever comments. There are plenty of those, and I
Speaker 5: can't execute on clever drops of brilliance. What I am
Speaker 5: looking for is someone who can actually string that all together.
Speaker 5: That person doesn't necessarily is not necessarily someone who speaks
Speaker 5: first or speaks a lot. That person is maybe a
Speaker 5: really good listener that strings everything together. The ability to
Speaker 5: critically think about issue and that really synthesize the issue
Speaker 5: and turn that into a well distilled plan. That skill
Speaker 5: is so rare, it's what I really really prize.
Speaker 4: So that's one.
Speaker 5: That's the technical skill sets. The cultural side is someone
Speaker 5: who's like positive. You know how people you hire someone
Speaker 5: they can drain your energy, and then you can also
Speaker 5: hire someone you want to hang out with that person
Speaker 5: all the time because they are fun, they're positive, they
Speaker 5: lighten up your day. So because you spend a lot
Speaker 5: of time with these people. So those are two things
Speaker 5: I'm looking for.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I come back to curiosity a lot. I will
Speaker 6: ask people weird questions during interviews, but or twists of
Speaker 6: the interview questions that you might be used. You know
Speaker 6: that that twenty years ago, everybody trained for it, right,
Speaker 6: what do you want to do in five years? But
Speaker 6: I won't ask it that way. I'll ask things like
Speaker 6: picture yourself in five years, and how does this role
Speaker 6: going to help you? Or how do you want to
Speaker 6: be mentored to that have you thought about the difference
Speaker 6: the delta between who you want to be and what
Speaker 6: you are now? Because I want people to think of themselves.
Speaker 6: I want to I want to understand that they're being
Speaker 6: self reflective, that they're curious and they want to engage
Speaker 6: with what it is that we're doing, and that they
Speaker 6: want it, that they kind of see this as a
Speaker 6: true opportunity and not just a job. And so I
Speaker 6: will ask questions like that because I am trying to
Speaker 6: dig at I will describe it consistently as curiosity. And
Speaker 6: then I will also ask always, I always ask every
Speaker 6: single person about mentors, like what kind of mentors did
Speaker 6: they have? Because I want to know who do they
Speaker 6: see as having shaped their life? And I will always
Speaker 6: then follow up that question with a question around failure
Speaker 6: and how do they engage with failure?
Speaker 3: Because those are all.
Speaker 6: Things that will be problematic in the clinical operations space,
Speaker 6: you will have mentors all around you, some of the
Speaker 6: smartest people in the world. You're going to see in biotech.
Speaker 6: Things are going to go wrong and you're going to
Speaker 6: need to solve them. And I want to understand people's
Speaker 6: ability to do those things all of that thread and
Speaker 6: not you know, crumble in the face of that. And
Speaker 6: so that's that's what I'm looking for, and that's how
Speaker 6: I dig at it.
Speaker 7: But might have a similar set of questions I asked
Speaker 7: When I interview folks, I always ask them about about
Speaker 7: a really challenging problem that didn't go the way they
Speaker 7: wanted and what happened, how did it have happened, how'd
Speaker 7: you recover from it? I find that to be useful.
Speaker 7: People sometimes can't think of one, which is always a
Speaker 7: red flag. But people should be able to share something
Speaker 7: that they were challenged by, and you can hear how
Speaker 7: they approached it, how eager they were, how curious they
Speaker 7: were why it went wrong. Maybe went wrong for a
Speaker 7: good reason. So I think that's an important question. And
Speaker 7: I also ask people, you know, for them, what's a
Speaker 7: great day for you and what's a bad day for you?
Speaker 7: And you learn a lot about what motivates people and
Speaker 7: what really is is a problem for them. So sometimes
Speaker 7: what they hate is what your job is going to
Speaker 7: offer them. And so it's good to know that ahead
Speaker 7: of time.
Speaker 8: You know, I'm going to highlight what Jing mentioned earlier,
Speaker 8: which is and I put it in the category of
Speaker 8: can do spirit And it's the idea that people are
Speaker 8: going to have different roles, but are they enthusiastic and
Speaker 8: are they willing to roll up their sleeves and have
Speaker 8: that positive perspective that they're doing something because they are
Speaker 8: culturally fitting with the organization and it's going to make sense.
Speaker 8: That's what really is sort of the secret sauce, if
Speaker 8: I can use that term.
Speaker 3: Thanks well, I.
Speaker 2: Agree with everything everyone's put out. And I guess the
Speaker 2: one other thing I might add is I try and
Speaker 2: assess or look for people who I mean, the scientific
Speaker 2: version is the system as biologists, but in this case
Speaker 2: someone who has the capability to be an enterprise level thinker.
Speaker 2: And what struck me in the previous discussion is the
Speaker 2: CEO who said, you know, you may not realize all
Speaker 2: of the things in front of the CEO and why
Speaker 2: decisions are made.
Speaker 3: And I think.
Speaker 2: Also as the cmo uh, you know individuals. You know,
Speaker 2: early in my career, I had someone say to me, Hey,
Speaker 2: I'm responsible for eight hundred people and all their wants
Speaker 2: and desires, So you're just going to have to live
Speaker 2: with my decision.
Speaker 3: And I think, you know, you want to.
Speaker 2: You want to have a sense of the maturity level
Speaker 2: and can can someone think like that? You want them
Speaker 2: to sort of advocate for a position and back it
Speaker 2: up with data, but you want to know that someone
Speaker 2: can walk away from the conversation and live with what
Speaker 2: the decision is.
Speaker 3: And and maybe that's a little bit of.
Speaker 2: A little bit of what Dan was saying, which is
Speaker 2: someone who talks about something that didn't go right but
Speaker 2: then can articulate, but I understand why the decision was made,
Speaker 2: this was why, And you know, maybe I learned from that.
Speaker 2: So maybe one thing Elso entered to pick up. And
Speaker 2: I think we were leading into this before and that
Speaker 2: is so I've been I've worked in both the Boston
Speaker 2: and the San Francisco ecosystems where we joke around that
Speaker 2: there's the shiny penny mentality where you know, people have
Speaker 2: a very short view of how long they're going to
Speaker 2: be someplace And one thing that I think about sometimes
Speaker 2: is like, when is it the right time to think
Speaker 2: about to like put business continuity into your plan as
Speaker 2: you're hiring, and how do you need to think about that?
Speaker 2: Because you finally settle on like your dream team if
Speaker 2: you can get there, and then someone decides they're leaving,
Speaker 2: So when do you start thinking about business continuity?
Speaker 3: Maybe, Dan, do you want to start?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 7: I think it becomes important as you hire more senior people.
Speaker 7: And one of the things we haven't talked about is
Speaker 7: what happens when you're company evolving and as a CMO,
Speaker 7: you're suddenly pulled out for externality facing things and you
Speaker 7: now can't really keep an eye on your studies. And
Speaker 7: so that depends upon the people who are running your studies,
Speaker 7: the kind of each project leader, and those are the
Speaker 7: people that you want to make sure that they recognize
Speaker 7: the challenge that they'll be facing when you hire them,
Speaker 7: that they're excited about that and they're not looking for
Speaker 7: a bigger job. I've might try to have someone tell
Speaker 7: me that they want to run a portfolio, then run
Speaker 7: a program, because I don't have a portfolio. I have
Speaker 7: a program for them, And so that's I think knowing
Speaker 7: that those people that the person you're going to hire
Speaker 7: sees growth ahead of them. I think it's critically important.
Speaker 7: And it's also important to make sure you can find
Speaker 7: people who can help you mentors and people who've been
Speaker 7: cmos when things get crazy and all of a sudden
Speaker 7: you don't have the time to have oversight over the
Speaker 7: people you've hired, or if someone were to leave you suddenly,
Speaker 7: can't you hire someone in the next month, You're still
Speaker 7: going to have to fill in.
Speaker 8: Maybe I'll add that going back to funer type. Uh,
Speaker 8: you know the ideas you need people who are hungry
Speaker 8: from the no matter what. That's that's what you at
Speaker 8: least that's you know, it's we're not saying they're an
Speaker 8: A type or a BB type or c. But they're
Speaker 8: hungry and they want to they want to get work done.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 8: And that means that if you have no work for them,
Speaker 8: that's a problem. So you have to constantly be pursuing
Speaker 8: that that the giving them opportunities to grow. So it's
Speaker 8: a slightly different address, but it's the fact that you
Speaker 8: need to be thinking about your team from the standpoint
Speaker 8: of how am I enabling him or her to constantly
Speaker 8: have an opportunity to be curious, to keep growing, so
Speaker 8: that they have that focus internally rather than the shiny
Speaker 8: penny outside.
Speaker 5: If I could add a little bit more to the
Speaker 5: business continuity concept. As the team evolves, one of the
Speaker 5: things I think about is like how critical is like,
Speaker 5: what are the incredibly critical roles that we have in
Speaker 5: front of us? And then I think about the depths
Speaker 5: of the bench because clinical operations. This is actually a
Speaker 5: really good example because you often times have you know,
Speaker 5: young people in the age of their lives there you know,
Speaker 5: sort of they're raising kids and so on, their life changes,
Speaker 5: and I had I have still this amazing leader, and
Speaker 5: then below her is just you know, like four levels
Speaker 5: below and variou junior people with the exception of one
Speaker 5: director level person. So over time I recognize how critical
Speaker 5: it is to have the depths of the bench, just
Speaker 5: because when something happens, you could, you know, affecting two
Speaker 5: people and then I'm out, I don't have clinical operations
Speaker 5: is critical. And so therefore we really talked about how
Speaker 5: to quickly build up the bench depth in order to
Speaker 5: really hover to have the full coverage over time.
Speaker 4: And that's just one example. Many many examples. Regulatory affairs
Speaker 4: is also such a critical function.
Speaker 2: So we have a little over four minutes left and
Speaker 2: I thought maybe I would just hope pose one or
Speaker 2: open ended question. Then if anyone still has energy from lunch,
Speaker 2: they can get up and ask a question. But I'm
Speaker 2: assuming everyone's pretty depleted, and I think the question is
Speaker 2: just thinking about recent experiences. What was a challenge that
Speaker 2: sort of kept you up or destroyed your weekend and
Speaker 2: how did you actually how did you manage to deal
Speaker 2: with it?
Speaker 7: How many weekends? I'm going to answer that question not
Speaker 7: from perspective of enrollment or safety or finanswer, but rather
Speaker 7: what me up with my team. And one of the
Speaker 7: things that I struggled with was having someone in a
Speaker 7: critical position running a program or trial who hadn't done
Speaker 7: this before. So great skills as a translational drug developer,
Speaker 7: but have never run a Phase TEE program. You know,
Speaker 7: things may seem intuitive, but they're definitely not intuitive. In
Speaker 7: phase three, there's a lot of blind spots, and that
Speaker 7: to me led to two pieces. One is I had
Speaker 7: to find someone I didn't have time to mentor be
Speaker 7: wherever the person. But I also worried about retention when
Speaker 7: he was not getting the kind of responsibility he would
Speaker 7: have wanted, and I couldn't. I couldn't just let him go.
Speaker 7: So that's a situation where when you can't really rely
Speaker 7: on it's not trust from the point of view of
Speaker 7: they're not being honest, it's you trust that they know
Speaker 7: enough to make the right decision when you can't be
Speaker 7: involved in all those decisions. That's something that I.
Speaker 8: Struggled with, struggled with having to let us someone go
Speaker 8: because the company was retrenching and we had to do it,
Speaker 8: and I knew that, and we talked about the enterprise focus.
Speaker 8: But at the same time, this was a very capable
Speaker 8: individual who really was doing a great job. So it
Speaker 8: it sort of was counterintuitive to let someone go who's
Speaker 8: who can do spirit, capable doing a great job, and oh,
Speaker 8: by the way, we can't keep you.
Speaker 6: So I think for me, it's very often blind spots, right,
Speaker 6: blind spots in what I am doing, what my team
Speaker 6: is doing, what the sites are doing, and now that
Speaker 6: I'm a vendor, what the sponsors are doing. And I
Speaker 6: used to sit in a role where I knew a
Speaker 6: decent amount in the sponsor leadership role. As a vendor,
Speaker 6: I know a lot less. And the thing is, having
Speaker 6: spent twenty years in sponsors, I know that they know
Speaker 6: a lot more and that they're not telling and so
Speaker 6: what's often very hard on the sponsor side, and I'm
Speaker 6: saying this too many cmos who are here on that
Speaker 6: sponsor side, is I know that some things are proprietary,
Speaker 6: but telling your people why can really help people get
Speaker 6: on board with the what and finding ways to non
Speaker 6: confidentially or not give up the game, but really help
Speaker 6: people get on board goes a long way. And I
Speaker 6: see this now on the other side of the fence,
Speaker 6: and if I ever end up on that side again,
Speaker 6: I think I will do. I have it more in
Speaker 6: my head to give the whys more than I probably
Speaker 6: have in the past.
Speaker 5: Yeah. For me, it's how to elevate the team effectiveness.
Speaker 5: Oftentimes people spend a lot of time doing busy work,
Speaker 5: and so I think that the whole concept goes slow
Speaker 5: to go fast is really important to me, which means
Speaker 5: that you really take the time, don't rush into failure,
Speaker 5: don't hurry in the wrong direction. So take the necessary
Speaker 5: time to really think about the problem that you're trying
Speaker 5: to solve so that you're not solving the wrong problem
Speaker 5: in a hurry.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to pass on providing my answer to
Speaker 2: give one person a chance to get up and ask
Speaker 2: a question.
Speaker 9: Get the work we do as cmos sometimes Avogadro's law,
Speaker 9: it expands to fill the volume in the space that
Speaker 9: we have. So and in a lot of situations, and
Speaker 9: in particular the current environment, the ability to be able
Speaker 9: to grow a team and build a team is.
Speaker 5: Not an option.
Speaker 9: So I'm just curious about your thoughts about building teams
Speaker 9: that remains small but are more fungible, asking people to
Speaker 9: do stuff they've never done before, and asking them to
Speaker 9: expand into this space that you have to fill when
Speaker 9: you can't fill it with people or resources, maybe.
Speaker 4: I can't give it a shot.
Speaker 5: What I find really really uniquely advantageous today is how
Speaker 5: much access we all collectively have the.
Speaker 4: Information velocity is just immense.
Speaker 5: Instantly Now I have access to these for gentlemen, and
Speaker 5: so I think that I'm shameless if I don't know something.
Speaker 4: Just to reach out and most people are willing to help.
Speaker 4: Turns out, So I think that you.
Speaker 5: Can have creative use of vendors, consultants, surround yourself with
Speaker 5: capabilities that you don't have, it really solves a lot
Speaker 5: of problems.
Speaker 7: I'll just say that that person who just stood up
Speaker 7: Steve's a coffee as a guy who rescued me at
Speaker 7: a time when I was deep deep in the water.
Speaker 7: But I think the critical piece that I think he
Speaker 7: was alluding to is making sure you have somebody internally
Speaker 7: or externally who knows that job and who can mentor
Speaker 7: keep an eye on advise that person. If not those
Speaker 7: people are available like Steve at places like SSR where
Speaker 7: you can have somebody can only be six hours a week,
Speaker 7: two hours a week, but there's someone paying attention to
Speaker 7: a person who's now expanding their responsibilities to a job
Speaker 7: they hadn't done before.
Speaker 6: And I think it comes back to these overlapping skill sets,
Speaker 6: the types of people who you have in your organization,
Speaker 6: and really does come back to that we can feel.
Speaker 6: You'd be surprised what people can feel if you give
Speaker 6: them the chance and you give them a little encouragement,
Speaker 6: you give them a little why people might surprise you.
Speaker 6: And I think the more the more we do with
Speaker 6: less and the more we like lift up the people
Speaker 6: around us, the better off we all are.
Speaker 3: Got the rid zero staring at us. Thank you.
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