WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:05.879 No, we're on board. Caseyaa's Inland Express, CACAA, Homelanda ten 2 00:00:05.960 --> 00:00:08.679 fifty am the station that needs notice her behind. 3 00:00:14.880 --> 00:00:17.519 The views and opinions expressed by individuals on the following 4 00:00:17.559 --> 00:00:20.960 program do not necessarily reflect those of the network, Guys 5 00:00:20.960 --> 00:00:25.559 Guy Radio and its platforms. 6 00:00:27.160 --> 00:00:28.679 It's Guys Guy Radio. 7 00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:34.079 Here's your host, Robert Manny. 8 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:39.159 Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. This is your host, Robert Manny. 9 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:42.240 Welcoming into the show where men and women can be 10 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:46.600 at their best and everyone wins. Guys Guys Radio. We're 11 00:00:46.640 --> 00:00:50.719 here to inform you, inspire you, empower you, and get 12 00:00:50.719 --> 00:00:54.119 you to think, feel, and who knows, maybe even act 13 00:00:54.200 --> 00:00:58.759 by virtue of the journeys, stories, experiences and insights of 14 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:01.159 the guests I bring you every week to the show, 15 00:01:01.159 --> 00:01:03.960 and once again this week is no exception. Today we're 16 00:01:03.960 --> 00:01:07.920 going to talk about men and men's groups with our 17 00:01:07.959 --> 00:01:13.040 special guest, return guest, doctor Ken Lakritz. He's a PhD. 18 00:01:13.239 --> 00:01:15.959 He's a Youngian psychologist and he was on the show 19 00:01:16.000 --> 00:01:19.519 recently talking about his book Remembering Self, and today we're 20 00:01:19.519 --> 00:01:21.280 going to talk to a men's group. I guess the 21 00:01:21.359 --> 00:01:24.760 question is, would you like to discover what really happens 22 00:01:24.799 --> 00:01:27.000 inside a men's group, and that's what we're going to 23 00:01:27.079 --> 00:01:30.879 do right here on this week's episode of Guys Guys Radio. 24 00:01:30.959 --> 00:01:33.079 You know, we all have your guy, you have a 25 00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:36.359 bunch of pals, and it usually comes down to you 26 00:01:36.439 --> 00:01:39.079 go out to the sports bar and you watch the 27 00:01:39.120 --> 00:01:42.319 game and you talk about teams and sports and maybe 28 00:01:42.400 --> 00:01:45.239 some news comes up that you want to share with 29 00:01:45.280 --> 00:01:48.719 your mates and your buddies, but you really don't get deep. 30 00:01:49.159 --> 00:01:52.000 And so I thought it would be nice that with 31 00:01:52.079 --> 00:01:55.359 these men's groups that keep propping up around all around, 32 00:01:55.439 --> 00:01:59.560 that we get a leader of a men's group who 33 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:03.239 is a psychologist and who goes deep with his men's 34 00:02:03.359 --> 00:02:06.719 group members to come on the show and talk about 35 00:02:06.760 --> 00:02:09.439 what happens with a men's group. And the nice thing 36 00:02:09.479 --> 00:02:12.000 is we're going to have four members of the men's 37 00:02:12.000 --> 00:02:15.000 group on the show along with doctor Ken. So I 38 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:16.680 think it's going to be a lot of fun. I 39 00:02:16.719 --> 00:02:18.319 think you're going to enjoy it. I'll see if I 40 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:21.680 can extract some helpful information for any of you guys 41 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:24.560 out there considering putting together your own men's group. So 42 00:02:24.599 --> 00:02:27.000 it's going to be fun right here on this week's 43 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:34.479 Guys Guys Radio. It's Guys Guy Radio. Okay, Guys Guys Radio. 44 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:36.719 It is the interview portion of our show. And today 45 00:02:37.120 --> 00:02:39.199 I'm delighted that we're going to do something a little bit, 46 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:41.319 a little bit different, and we're going to talk about 47 00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:45.240 guys with guys. My special guest is a return guest. 48 00:02:45.599 --> 00:02:49.919 Ken Lackritz, PhD, is the He's a Youngian psychologist and 49 00:02:49.919 --> 00:02:51.439 he's author of the book that we covered a couple 50 00:02:51.479 --> 00:02:54.599 of weeks ago on Guys Guys Radio, Remembering Self, and 51 00:02:54.639 --> 00:02:56.800 it really talks about the four stages of life and 52 00:02:56.840 --> 00:02:59.719 how as we age, we can really do a better job, 53 00:03:00.000 --> 00:03:03.800 really thrive in our last quarter of our lives, if 54 00:03:03.840 --> 00:03:07.759 you will, and also understand the leaning behind each one 55 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:10.120 of the quadrants of our life. And Ken did a 56 00:03:10.120 --> 00:03:12.479 great job with this book. It's got some fiction in it, 57 00:03:12.479 --> 00:03:15.719 it's got some nonfiction, and it's got a lot of truth. So, 58 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:19.159 first of all, welcome to the show, Ken Lackritz and 59 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:25.520 the guys from Ken's Men's Group. So Ken, Hello, So Ken, 60 00:03:25.560 --> 00:03:28.680 why don't you tell everybody about the group how it 61 00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:32.280 got started? And then introduced to the guys. 62 00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.680 I will well said, first of all, thank you for 63 00:03:33.719 --> 00:03:36.120 having us here. I think this is really a pleasure 64 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:41.240 to be here and to bring this fellowship to the world, 65 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:44.360 because I think it's a very special community of men. 66 00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.479 You know, I've been a part of Men's work for 67 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:52.560 about thirty five years and one of the things that 68 00:03:52.599 --> 00:03:56.199 I've learned over that time is that it's very important 69 00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:59.759 to curate a community. And part of the way that 70 00:03:59.800 --> 00:04:02.400 I I curate this is every man that has come 71 00:04:02.439 --> 00:04:04.439 into the group has come through my practice. 72 00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:06.439 Now part part. 73 00:04:06.199 --> 00:04:10.479 Of the reasoning behind that UH is a little bit 74 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:17.120 of adding and UH and in an understanding of where 75 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:20.279 men lie in terms of their their depth of understanding. 76 00:04:20.319 --> 00:04:24.199 Are they ready for the sacred? Are they reverent to 77 00:04:24.639 --> 00:04:28.639 the depths? Are they ready to meet other men on 78 00:04:28.720 --> 00:04:32.839 a very deep ritual level, at the heart level, and 79 00:04:32.920 --> 00:04:36.759 to be able to move into domains of life that 80 00:04:37.720 --> 00:04:43.399 encourage maturity, then encourage a deep appreciation for the feminine, 81 00:04:43.879 --> 00:04:45.920 because it's not all about the masculine. 82 00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:47.240 UH. 83 00:04:47.319 --> 00:04:51.519 And men who UH, who feel that they want to 84 00:04:51.519 --> 00:04:56.040 move out of out of isolation and into deep relationship, 85 00:04:56.079 --> 00:04:58.920 And I'd say, you know, the loyalty that has grown 86 00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.800 and the sense of commune unity and has grown in 87 00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:06.000 the bonds that have grown have been something almost beyond 88 00:05:06.199 --> 00:05:11.680 what I've witnessed before. And so let me introduce these 89 00:05:11.800 --> 00:05:17.839 very special individuals. First is our youngest member, who is 90 00:05:17.879 --> 00:05:22.279 Alex Wilson, and he is thirty six going on what 91 00:05:22.480 --> 00:05:24.839 sixty something like that. 92 00:05:25.639 --> 00:05:26.959 And then we have Is. 93 00:05:29.120 --> 00:05:34.360 Who has brought incredible life and love to this community. 94 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:39.279 And then we have Randall Wilson, who in the glasses 95 00:05:39.319 --> 00:05:43.560 and the beer, who is Alex's father. And it's the 96 00:05:43.639 --> 00:05:46.800 first time I've seen a father and son within a 97 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:50.399 group like this, and it's been just incredibly special to 98 00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:53.720 all of us to witness this dynamic and to see 99 00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:58.240 what has passed down from generation to generation. And then 100 00:05:58.279 --> 00:06:02.480 the Xavier and I Karen Kocher, did I've pronounce that correctly? 101 00:06:02.959 --> 00:06:03.480 Almost? 102 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:04.759 Almost? 103 00:06:04.920 --> 00:06:08.000 You know, after ten years I should be able to 104 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:12.399 pronounce it properly, but I'll get there. And and Xavier 105 00:06:12.439 --> 00:06:16.319 has been part of men's work and initiatory rite of 106 00:06:16.360 --> 00:06:18.319 passage work with young men and. 107 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:21.839 Drumming. I won't call him a master. 108 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:24.160 Drummer because he doesn't like to be called a master drummer, 109 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:28.319 but he's an incredible drummer, which he brings ritual and 110 00:06:28.480 --> 00:06:30.360 song to our community. 111 00:06:32.560 --> 00:06:36.759 Okay, so let's get to why you started the group. 112 00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:38.879 How did that come about? I know you mentioned ken 113 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:42.000 that everybody was a client of yours, and so how 114 00:06:42.000 --> 00:06:45.920 did the group come out of that? And also how 115 00:06:46.120 --> 00:06:47.600 you know a lot of people think of a men's 116 00:06:47.639 --> 00:06:49.959 group as a bunch of dudes sitting around complaining or 117 00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:54.120 doing other crazy stuff. Is how is your group different? 118 00:06:55.439 --> 00:06:58.720 Well, you know, it's interesting because I've had so many 119 00:06:58.839 --> 00:07:04.639 men pass through my uh my practice, and uniformly, even today, 120 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:09.399 uniformly they say they feel lonely, they feel isolated. They're 121 00:07:09.439 --> 00:07:14.560 tired of superficial conversations. They want conversations of greater depth. 122 00:07:15.480 --> 00:07:18.600 You know, they're fine with sports and barroom talk, but 123 00:07:18.680 --> 00:07:21.360 they but they want to talk about their spiritual lives 124 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:26.079 and their hearts and their relationships. And uh and I 125 00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.199 think that what what has happened in our group is 126 00:07:29.199 --> 00:07:35.040 that we have cultivated a depth and a reverence for 127 00:07:35.160 --> 00:07:38.759 being together that has taken us continually deeper. 128 00:07:39.680 --> 00:07:41.560 And there is a. 129 00:07:43.399 --> 00:07:46.240 There is a food and this is this is the 130 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.680 invisible part of men's community. There is a food that 131 00:07:49.759 --> 00:07:51.680 men bring to each other. It's a kind of a 132 00:07:51.759 --> 00:07:57.079 spiritual or a psychological emotional food that we we can't 133 00:07:57.120 --> 00:08:00.839 get any anywhere else. And I think, I think our 134 00:08:00.879 --> 00:08:04.160 female partners would love to bring this to us, but 135 00:08:04.240 --> 00:08:06.199 it's not something that they can bring to us. And 136 00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.959 so I'd like to actually turn this over to Xavier 137 00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:13.399 to maybe to expound on this, if you would, Xavier. 138 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:17.040 Thank you Ken, and thank you Robert for having us 139 00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:20.360 and our pleasure my brothers. You know, as I look 140 00:08:20.360 --> 00:08:26.000 at your faces, I am just, you know, structless such gratitude. 141 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:30.920 You know. I think everything that Ken's saying is absolutely true. 142 00:08:30.920 --> 00:08:34.799 And what strikes me is that because we've each been 143 00:08:34.840 --> 00:08:37.840 in therapy, each member of the group has been in therapy, 144 00:08:38.240 --> 00:08:44.240 we're familiar to the idea of being in a therapeutic 145 00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.519 holding space and we bring that into the group and 146 00:08:47.559 --> 00:08:48.679 we bring that to each other. 147 00:08:49.279 --> 00:08:53.080 And so when the brother invited. 148 00:08:52.639 --> 00:08:55.840 Me into the group, before I met Ken, I felt 149 00:08:55.960 --> 00:08:57.879 that this would be a safe group because of my 150 00:08:57.919 --> 00:09:00.480 experience with him, and then of course me can I 151 00:09:00.519 --> 00:09:02.799 trust that this would be a wonderful group of men, 152 00:09:03.799 --> 00:09:08.240 and so we come together and it's not a space 153 00:09:08.279 --> 00:09:11.440 of competition, it's not a space of it's a judgment 154 00:09:11.559 --> 00:09:16.759 free zone. So I feel completely safe sharing you know, 155 00:09:16.919 --> 00:09:22.320 my heart, my desires, my success is my failures, triumph, triumphs, 156 00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:27.759 and traumas with this group of men. And one way 157 00:09:27.799 --> 00:09:30.639 that I see it is that we hold each other 158 00:09:31.360 --> 00:09:35.720 in the light of our attention. And I feel like 159 00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.080 in that light, when we're offering our hearts and we're 160 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.879 just being seen and heard by each other, we're calling 161 00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:48.399 something forth. We're calling forth just more of who we 162 00:09:48.480 --> 00:09:52.159 are as men and as human beings. And it's a 163 00:09:52.360 --> 00:09:55.960 tremendous honor and blessing to sit in a group of men, 164 00:09:56.840 --> 00:10:01.039 to be seen, to be mirrored. You know, when I'm 165 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.440 sitting and sharing, sometimes man will reflect something back to 166 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:09.480 me about myself that I've completely overlooked, you know, something good, 167 00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:13.919 something positive that I haven't owned, and it helps me 168 00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.600 to kind of own aspects of myself. And when I'm 169 00:10:18.799 --> 00:10:22.039 sharing something difficult, you know, a reflection from a man 170 00:10:22.120 --> 00:10:25.360 will kind of give me a different perspective that helps 171 00:10:25.399 --> 00:10:27.679 me see what I'm going through in a different way, 172 00:10:27.840 --> 00:10:31.320 and you know, I'm able to meet that challenge with 173 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:35.600 a little more strength, with a little more ingenuity. 174 00:10:35.639 --> 00:10:38.360 Fantastic. Let me ask is how did you get into 175 00:10:38.399 --> 00:10:42.360 the group and what has been how long have you 176 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:44.840 been in the group and what has your experience been 177 00:10:45.159 --> 00:10:47.320 and is that experience what you expected? 178 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.679 Thank you, Thank you, Robert. How I got in the 179 00:10:52.679 --> 00:10:57.200 group was I had an awakening about eleven years ago, 180 00:10:57.279 --> 00:11:00.399 and in that process, I realized that I'm needed to 181 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:04.440 go within, and so I sought therapy and I was 182 00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:09.759 looking for specifically a youngiin therapist and and Ken cost 183 00:11:09.840 --> 00:11:14.639 my we can's paths and he helps he helps me 184 00:11:14.759 --> 00:11:18.600 go within and understand what it is that I need 185 00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:23.000 to work on myself within. And so that's how that 186 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.799 came to be. And then after a few months, and 187 00:11:25.840 --> 00:11:29.679 I've been with the group about three years. So after 188 00:11:29.720 --> 00:11:33.440 a few months, Ken suggested that I joined this group, 189 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:35.840 and I, you know, it's been a while for me 190 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:40.559 to be in the camaraderie of men. And what I 191 00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:43.399 really enjoy about this particular group is that because we 192 00:11:43.440 --> 00:11:47.200 are varying ages, we have experiences that we can that 193 00:11:47.279 --> 00:11:49.759 we had in common, let's say, as men. 194 00:11:50.159 --> 00:11:50.960 And then there's. 195 00:11:50.759 --> 00:11:54.639 Also a mentorship that we have to the younger men 196 00:11:54.679 --> 00:11:57.919 in the group. It's a it's a beautiful because there's 197 00:11:57.960 --> 00:12:00.279 eight of us altogether, so you just think you just 198 00:12:00.399 --> 00:12:04.480 before the eighth Okay, So that's it's a really good group. 199 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.799 And what I want to point out is that the 200 00:12:06.879 --> 00:12:09.240 young men mentor us also. 201 00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:13.399 That's true, absolutely all. 202 00:12:12.720 --> 00:12:15.279 Right, and now we have I want to get to everybody. 203 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.600 So Randall and Alex as father and son, which I 204 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.919 think is fantastic. You guys are both in the group. 205 00:12:20.919 --> 00:12:22.600 Why don't you go ahead on your own and just 206 00:12:22.639 --> 00:12:25.799 tell us about that experience, how who got in first, 207 00:12:26.200 --> 00:12:28.639 how the other person got in, and what's been the 208 00:12:28.720 --> 00:12:31.320 dynamic while the two of you have been in this 209 00:12:31.360 --> 00:12:35.320 group together, and how has it impacted your relationship and 210 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:38.039 if there were any issues before that have been resolved 211 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:39.559 while being in the group. I know I threw a 212 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:41.519 lot at you, but just talk to us. 213 00:12:43.440 --> 00:12:45.559 Take it away about how about I started off? 214 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:49.919 Okay, Yeah, I've been in the group for I don't know, 215 00:12:49.960 --> 00:12:54.559 maybe four years, and coming out of working with Ken 216 00:12:55.799 --> 00:13:04.200 into that situation has been absolutely wonderful, and as as 217 00:13:04.240 --> 00:13:08.600 one of us indicated before, like an opportunity to come 218 00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:09.159 out of that. 219 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:13.559 That a very frequent. 220 00:13:14.399 --> 00:13:19.320 Experience of feeling kind of isolated emotionally, and to be 221 00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:24.600 able to to have the freedom to express both both 222 00:13:24.639 --> 00:13:29.039 my despair and my excitement and everything in between, and 223 00:13:29.080 --> 00:13:35.320 not have it ever be judged. Has just been an 224 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:39.360 absolutely empowering experience for me and has just meant the world. 225 00:13:39.440 --> 00:13:47.720 And so I'm exceedingly grateful. And as Alex, who has 226 00:13:47.759 --> 00:13:49.360 been in the group for a little while, came in, 227 00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:53.879 I guess probably important to understand that aside from the 228 00:13:53.919 --> 00:13:59.519 fact that we're in the group together, we also together 229 00:14:00.039 --> 00:14:00.519 every day. 230 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:03.759 We have a. 231 00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:05.840 Woodworking business, and Alex has been working in my woodworking 232 00:14:05.879 --> 00:14:10.799 business now for well over fifteen years, and so you 233 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:15.840 could say that we have a very very engaged relationship. 234 00:14:16.080 --> 00:14:27.600 And as alexis has joined the therapy and kind of 235 00:14:27.639 --> 00:14:31.799 like the opportunity came up for him to join the group, 236 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:37.639 for me, it was just like this amazing opportunity to 237 00:14:37.639 --> 00:14:42.159 be able to present my vulnerability to him as a as. 238 00:14:41.960 --> 00:14:44.120 A man, and too. 239 00:14:45.679 --> 00:14:51.840 Like expand my curiosity about about how would it be 240 00:14:51.919 --> 00:14:54.399 for us as a father and son to be in 241 00:14:54.440 --> 00:14:57.919 this particular context of being an immense group, of being 242 00:14:57.960 --> 00:15:04.440 emotionally vulnerable, like I said, and like to to and 243 00:15:04.519 --> 00:15:09.039 to find out what was going to be the the 244 00:15:09.159 --> 00:15:12.600 takeaway for the group in general, because I can I 245 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.639 can assure you that every single one of us has 246 00:15:17.799 --> 00:15:21.240 what we might refer to as father issues or dad issues. 247 00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:27.639 I myself definitely, and and it's like, well, won't won't 248 00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:31.159 be cool to see how to see how we can 249 00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:35.480 work with what might be construed as dad issues with 250 00:15:35.639 --> 00:15:39.440 the actual father and son as you know, the guys 251 00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.679 in the test tube. And it's just been kind of 252 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:47.000 marvelous for me too to be able to, how to say, 253 00:15:47.120 --> 00:15:50.320 expose myself to my son in ways that you know, 254 00:15:50.840 --> 00:15:55.840 are completely unprecedented for me in my life. And it's 255 00:15:56.039 --> 00:16:01.080 just felt like the uh, the benefits for us in 256 00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:05.639 our particular relationship, and I think it kind of ripples 257 00:16:05.639 --> 00:16:11.720 out have just been fabulous in terms of just experiencing 258 00:16:11.919 --> 00:16:21.399 each other's humanity, our challenges, and I'm just continually curious 259 00:16:21.399 --> 00:16:24.639 about where we're going to go with it and how 260 00:16:24.759 --> 00:16:28.320 it will enrich our relationship and how does we get 261 00:16:28.360 --> 00:16:29.200 to operate together? 262 00:16:29.559 --> 00:16:33.600 Okay, fantastic? Okay, Alex, So I heard from your dad 263 00:16:34.320 --> 00:16:36.440 for you, how did you get into the group? Was 264 00:16:36.440 --> 00:16:39.240 it your idea? Was it your dad's idea? What do 265 00:16:39.279 --> 00:16:41.440 you think about you know, getting together and you're hearing 266 00:16:41.480 --> 00:16:45.759 the you know, experiencing witnessing the vulnerabilities that your dad has, 267 00:16:45.799 --> 00:16:49.080 which to me is very courageous. And then how about 268 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:51.279 you being able to talk in a group about some 269 00:16:51.320 --> 00:16:53.799 of your issues when your dad's sitting right across the 270 00:16:53.919 --> 00:16:54.559 table from you. 271 00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:59.960 Yeah, so we have the super deep relationship we've been 272 00:17:00.039 --> 00:17:02.600 working together. Like you said, this is our twentieth year 273 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:06.920 working together, So we have this kind of platform that 274 00:17:06.960 --> 00:17:12.200 we're used to working in, and the say hierarchy is 275 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:16.519 kind of you know, it is what it is at 276 00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:20.920 this point. So getting this other platform and context to 277 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.400 be working in has just been incredible. Getting to work 278 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:30.759 with Ken has been The growth is real and I 279 00:17:30.799 --> 00:17:33.880 feel like having this context of the men's group is 280 00:17:34.240 --> 00:17:37.200 it's kind of like a pressure cooker for growth when 281 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.039 you're emerging into the next phase of life, like I 282 00:17:40.119 --> 00:17:43.720 kind of am. My wife is pregnant, I got married 283 00:17:43.759 --> 00:17:47.839 this year, taking over the business as we're going along here. 284 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:53.759 So yeah, having having this space to communicate and work 285 00:17:53.799 --> 00:17:57.240 with my dad alongside having this context of all these 286 00:17:57.240 --> 00:18:01.440 other men is just Yeah, it's a really incredible space 287 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.559 to be in and fantastic. 288 00:18:03.759 --> 00:18:07.839 Okay, good yeah, all right, Okay, guys, guys Radio Robert 289 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:09.240 Mann and your host that we're doing a show a 290 00:18:09.279 --> 00:18:11.480 little bit differently today. You know, we're doing We're doing 291 00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:14.119 a men's group, and you know, we exploring the show 292 00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:18.559 everything from relationships, the personal development, spirituality, culture and what 293 00:18:18.599 --> 00:18:21.440 it really means to be a man in today's changing world. 294 00:18:21.519 --> 00:18:23.960 So our show today's a little bit different. Instead of 295 00:18:24.000 --> 00:18:27.799 interviewing one guest, we're joined by five members of Ken's group, 296 00:18:27.880 --> 00:18:30.640 Ken's Men's group, and we're having a discussion. So let's 297 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:32.759 pick it up. Let's have some fun here because I'm 298 00:18:32.759 --> 00:18:35.799 sure your group has some fun. So Ken, talk to 299 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:39.720 us about the group itself. You are a Youngian psychologist. 300 00:18:39.920 --> 00:18:42.359 These guys have been your patients, and I'm assuming other 301 00:18:42.359 --> 00:18:46.440 guys in the group have been your clients. Whatever, How 302 00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:51.200 does that dynamic shape the culture of the group and 303 00:18:51.279 --> 00:18:53.640 do you think you would have a different group if 304 00:18:53.640 --> 00:18:55.759 it weren't your clients. 305 00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.119 I think I would definitely have a different group if 306 00:18:59.240 --> 00:19:03.920 if it wasn't Like allis, I think that the depth 307 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:07.319 of relationship that I have with each man is so 308 00:19:07.519 --> 00:19:10.160 profound even before they step into the group. 309 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.319 And I think that. 310 00:19:14.519 --> 00:19:18.920 My sense of you know, what's moving in them, what's 311 00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:24.359 important to them, what needs to come forward is you know, 312 00:19:24.720 --> 00:19:28.039 is fairly crystallized by the time they come in, and 313 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:31.400 it helps me to hold space, It helps me to 314 00:19:31.559 --> 00:19:35.319 know the depth of the vulnerabilities. And you know, one 315 00:19:35.319 --> 00:19:37.640 of the things that I was thinking about as the 316 00:19:37.640 --> 00:19:40.920 men we're talking is, you know, one of the operative 317 00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:45.559 core emotions that I think that people don't understand, fully 318 00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:50.519 understand about men is the level of shame that shuts us. 319 00:19:50.400 --> 00:19:52.039 Down very early in life. 320 00:19:52.079 --> 00:19:56.519 We're basically shamed out of our feeling, our out of 321 00:19:56.559 --> 00:19:59.440 our hearts, out of our emotional life at a very 322 00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:03.920 early age. And uh, And part of what we're trying 323 00:20:03.960 --> 00:20:08.759 to do is create a context of a fellowship that 324 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:11.839 helps to lift that shame and helps us to move 325 00:20:11.839 --> 00:20:14.359 beyond that shame, because I think that what each of 326 00:20:14.440 --> 00:20:15.759 us wants is each of us. 327 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:19.079 Wants to move forward into life, to come forward. 328 00:20:18.799 --> 00:20:22.680 To fully manifest, to become and be the people we 329 00:20:22.799 --> 00:20:26.720 truly are. And you know, as Alex was saying, it's 330 00:20:26.799 --> 00:20:31.000 kind of an alchemical chamber. It's a it's a testing 331 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:35.160 environment for us to to learn how to be completely 332 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:40.160 transparent and authentic with with others and to be held 333 00:20:41.319 --> 00:20:44.440 with love, you know, to be held really in the 334 00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:48.759 context of love and appreciation, okay, and that's what's evolved 335 00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.160 in this community. 336 00:20:50.559 --> 00:20:54.079 Okay, guys, you have kind of a this is just 337 00:20:54.160 --> 00:20:56.200 a microcosm of the group. We don't have all eight 338 00:20:56.240 --> 00:20:57.599 members here, but you have a little bit of a 339 00:20:57.640 --> 00:21:01.039 cultural mash up here, which is great. You guys feel 340 00:21:01.079 --> 00:21:04.759 from the different cultures and backgrounds you come from that 341 00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:09.200 it's different. By doing something like this is a big leap. 342 00:21:09.599 --> 00:21:11.680 If you are I'm going to take a guess that 343 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.960 is you some type of Middle Eastern. Is that correct? 344 00:21:15.440 --> 00:21:18.440 Well, I have actually Northern Indian idiot. 345 00:21:18.519 --> 00:21:20.400 Okay, I'm sorry, Yeah, I'm sorry. 346 00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:20.640 That's fine. 347 00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.880 But the generations ago, my forefathers went to South Africa, 348 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:27.640 Southern Africa, okay, and so, and then that over to 349 00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:29.759 Kenya and then over to Canada and now the US. 350 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:33.599 Okay, so culture of the world culturally is something like 351 00:21:33.680 --> 00:21:39.039 this more welcome, welcomed from where you grow grew up 352 00:21:39.799 --> 00:21:42.200 or is this something that's a it's a big leap, 353 00:21:42.359 --> 00:21:44.400 even a bigger leap than some of the guys who 354 00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:45.400 are from here. 355 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:47.680 Yes, you know, typically it is. It is a big 356 00:21:47.759 --> 00:21:50.559 leap from because the culture, even though it was several 357 00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:54.839 generations removed that northern Indian culture is very patriarchal, and 358 00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:58.480 so that has led itself through multiple generations and it 359 00:21:58.640 --> 00:22:03.400 led into my generation as well, and it typically is 360 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:06.160 a big league. But I can't. I was called a 361 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:08.599 sensitive one when I was a child, when I was 362 00:22:08.640 --> 00:22:11.839 a kid with my three other siblings, so I end 363 00:22:11.920 --> 00:22:14.599 up being more open hearted. But it's still it's still 364 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:19.319 a challenge too. But I, like I said earlier, I 365 00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:21.519 love being in the camaraderie of men. I ride with 366 00:22:21.559 --> 00:22:24.000 a motorcycle group as well, and that's also a lot 367 00:22:24.039 --> 00:22:25.880 of fun that you know, it's a different level of 368 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.440 depth that you go into. 369 00:22:28.119 --> 00:22:32.599 How about Xavier, what's your sense from a cultural background 370 00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:34.880 in terms of entering a group like this. Is this 371 00:22:34.960 --> 00:22:38.359 something like other folks that you would know in your family, 372 00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:40.279 et cetera would say, oh my god, I can't believe 373 00:22:40.319 --> 00:22:42.799 you're doing that, or is this something that's encouraged, and say, 374 00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:44.319 I totally get it. That's cool. 375 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:47.400 Well, as we said, my last name is Kreen Cooder, 376 00:22:47.440 --> 00:22:50.720 which is Dutch, right, so okay, my blonde hair and 377 00:22:50.720 --> 00:22:56.119 blue eyes, but you know, having African air at age 378 00:22:56.240 --> 00:23:00.319 Dutch and you know, Native American, I personally am multi cultural, 379 00:23:00.440 --> 00:23:05.119 so my personal stance with that as I see each 380 00:23:05.160 --> 00:23:07.119 person has a reflection of me. You know, I've got 381 00:23:07.240 --> 00:23:10.039 I've got all of it in me. And so what 382 00:23:10.200 --> 00:23:14.200 strikes me even more than the cultural aspect, which is, 383 00:23:14.400 --> 00:23:17.240 you know, we all understand and we relate, but you know, 384 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:24.160 we're all Americans. We're all really Western men living in America. 385 00:23:25.160 --> 00:23:27.279 It's the fact that we have a father and son. 386 00:23:27.799 --> 00:23:30.680 You know, I'm a son, I had a father my 387 00:23:30.759 --> 00:23:35.160 father's past and seeing their dynamic reflected helps to heal 388 00:23:35.559 --> 00:23:39.880 my father issues. Right, We've got men at different ages, 389 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:44.079 and when we talk with each other, we relate to 390 00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.599 that aspect of ourselves. 391 00:23:45.640 --> 00:23:46.759 And so it's really like. 392 00:23:46.839 --> 00:23:52.319 This microcosm macrocosm reflected in our group that's reflected in 393 00:23:52.359 --> 00:23:55.640 our individual selves and the growth is just it and 394 00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:58.680 it balloons out to this universal feeling too, because I 395 00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:03.160 feel like we're across section of our larger culture. 396 00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:07.319 Okay, so, uh, when you guys get together, I guess 397 00:24:07.480 --> 00:24:10.039 this one's for Ken. Is this an do you see? 398 00:24:10.039 --> 00:24:12.680 This is the way it plays out? Is an expansion 399 00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:18.079 of a young psychology session or it is a men's group, 400 00:24:18.200 --> 00:24:19.960 and it could go a lot of different ways. And 401 00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:22.319