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Speaker 2: The views and opinions expressed by individuals on the following
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Speaker 3: It's Guys Guy Radio.
Speaker 2: Here's your host, Robert Manny.
Speaker 3: Welcome to Guys Guys Radio. This is your host, Robert Manny.
Speaker 3: Welcoming into the show where men and women can be
Speaker 3: at their best and everyone wins. Guys Guys Radio. We're
Speaker 3: here to inform you, inspire you, empower you, and get
Speaker 3: you to think, feel, and who knows, maybe even act
Speaker 3: by virtue of the journeys, stories, experiences and insights of
Speaker 3: the guests I bring you every week to the show,
Speaker 3: and once again this week is no exception. Today we're
Speaker 3: going to talk about men and men's groups with our
Speaker 3: special guest, return guest, doctor Ken Lakritz. He's a PhD.
Speaker 3: He's a Youngian psychologist and he was on the show
Speaker 3: recently talking about his book Remembering Self, and today we're
Speaker 3: going to talk to a men's group. I guess the
Speaker 3: question is, would you like to discover what really happens
Speaker 3: inside a men's group, and that's what we're going to
Speaker 3: do right here on this week's episode of Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 3: You know, we all have your guy, you have a
Speaker 3: bunch of pals, and it usually comes down to you
Speaker 3: go out to the sports bar and you watch the
Speaker 3: game and you talk about teams and sports and maybe
Speaker 3: some news comes up that you want to share with
Speaker 3: your mates and your buddies, but you really don't get deep.
Speaker 3: And so I thought it would be nice that with
Speaker 3: these men's groups that keep propping up around all around,
Speaker 3: that we get a leader of a men's group who
Speaker 3: is a psychologist and who goes deep with his men's
Speaker 3: group members to come on the show and talk about
Speaker 3: what happens with a men's group. And the nice thing
Speaker 3: is we're going to have four members of the men's
Speaker 3: group on the show along with doctor Ken. So I
Speaker 3: think it's going to be a lot of fun. I
Speaker 3: think you're going to enjoy it. I'll see if I
Speaker 3: can extract some helpful information for any of you guys
Speaker 3: out there considering putting together your own men's group. So
Speaker 3: it's going to be fun right here on this week's
Speaker 3: Guys Guys Radio. It's Guys Guy Radio. Okay, Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 3: It is the interview portion of our show. And today
Speaker 3: I'm delighted that we're going to do something a little bit,
Speaker 3: a little bit different, and we're going to talk about
Speaker 3: guys with guys. My special guest is a return guest.
Speaker 3: Ken Lackritz, PhD, is the He's a Youngian psychologist and
Speaker 3: he's author of the book that we covered a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks ago on Guys Guys Radio, Remembering Self, and
Speaker 3: it really talks about the four stages of life and
Speaker 3: how as we age, we can really do a better job,
Speaker 3: really thrive in our last quarter of our lives, if
Speaker 3: you will, and also understand the leaning behind each one
Speaker 3: of the quadrants of our life. And Ken did a
Speaker 3: great job with this book. It's got some fiction in it,
Speaker 3: it's got some nonfiction, and it's got a lot of truth. So,
Speaker 3: first of all, welcome to the show, Ken Lackritz and
Speaker 3: the guys from Ken's Men's Group. So Ken, Hello, So Ken,
Speaker 3: why don't you tell everybody about the group how it
Speaker 3: got started? And then introduced to the guys.
Speaker 4: I will well said, first of all, thank you for
Speaker 4: having us here. I think this is really a pleasure
Speaker 4: to be here and to bring this fellowship to the world,
Speaker 4: because I think it's a very special community of men.
Speaker 4: You know, I've been a part of Men's work for
Speaker 4: about thirty five years and one of the things that
Speaker 4: I've learned over that time is that it's very important
Speaker 4: to curate a community. And part of the way that
Speaker 4: I I curate this is every man that has come
Speaker 4: into the group has come through my practice.
Speaker 5: Now part part.
Speaker 4: Of the reasoning behind that UH is a little bit
Speaker 4: of adding and UH and in an understanding of where
Speaker 4: men lie in terms of their their depth of understanding.
Speaker 4: Are they ready for the sacred? Are they reverent to
Speaker 4: the depths? Are they ready to meet other men on
Speaker 4: a very deep ritual level, at the heart level, and
Speaker 4: to be able to move into domains of life that
Speaker 4: encourage maturity, then encourage a deep appreciation for the feminine,
Speaker 4: because it's not all about the masculine.
Speaker 6: UH.
Speaker 4: And men who UH, who feel that they want to
Speaker 4: move out of out of isolation and into deep relationship,
Speaker 4: And I'd say, you know, the loyalty that has grown
Speaker 4: and the sense of commune unity and has grown in
Speaker 4: the bonds that have grown have been something almost beyond
Speaker 4: what I've witnessed before. And so let me introduce these
Speaker 4: very special individuals. First is our youngest member, who is
Speaker 4: Alex Wilson, and he is thirty six going on what
Speaker 4: sixty something like that.
Speaker 5: And then we have Is.
Speaker 4: Who has brought incredible life and love to this community.
Speaker 4: And then we have Randall Wilson, who in the glasses
Speaker 4: and the beer, who is Alex's father. And it's the
Speaker 4: first time I've seen a father and son within a
Speaker 4: group like this, and it's been just incredibly special to
Speaker 4: all of us to witness this dynamic and to see
Speaker 4: what has passed down from generation to generation. And then
Speaker 4: the Xavier and I Karen Kocher, did I've pronounce that correctly?
Speaker 3: Almost?
Speaker 5: Almost?
Speaker 4: You know, after ten years I should be able to
Speaker 4: pronounce it properly, but I'll get there. And and Xavier
Speaker 4: has been part of men's work and initiatory rite of
Speaker 4: passage work with young men and.
Speaker 5: Drumming. I won't call him a master.
Speaker 4: Drummer because he doesn't like to be called a master drummer,
Speaker 4: but he's an incredible drummer, which he brings ritual and
Speaker 4: song to our community.
Speaker 3: Okay, so let's get to why you started the group.
Speaker 3: How did that come about? I know you mentioned ken
Speaker 3: that everybody was a client of yours, and so how
Speaker 3: did the group come out of that? And also how
Speaker 3: you know a lot of people think of a men's
Speaker 3: group as a bunch of dudes sitting around complaining or
Speaker 3: doing other crazy stuff. Is how is your group different?
Speaker 4: Well, you know, it's interesting because I've had so many
Speaker 4: men pass through my uh my practice, and uniformly, even today,
Speaker 4: uniformly they say they feel lonely, they feel isolated. They're
Speaker 4: tired of superficial conversations. They want conversations of greater depth.
Speaker 4: You know, they're fine with sports and barroom talk, but
Speaker 4: they but they want to talk about their spiritual lives
Speaker 4: and their hearts and their relationships. And uh and I
Speaker 4: think that what what has happened in our group is
Speaker 4: that we have cultivated a depth and a reverence for
Speaker 4: being together that has taken us continually deeper.
Speaker 5: And there is a.
Speaker 4: There is a food and this is this is the
Speaker 4: invisible part of men's community. There is a food that
Speaker 4: men bring to each other. It's a kind of a
Speaker 4: spiritual or a psychological emotional food that we we can't
Speaker 4: get any anywhere else. And I think, I think our
Speaker 4: female partners would love to bring this to us, but
Speaker 4: it's not something that they can bring to us. And
Speaker 4: so I'd like to actually turn this over to Xavier
Speaker 4: to maybe to expound on this, if you would, Xavier.
Speaker 7: Thank you Ken, and thank you Robert for having us
Speaker 7: and our pleasure my brothers. You know, as I look
Speaker 7: at your faces, I am just, you know, structless such gratitude.
Speaker 7: You know. I think everything that Ken's saying is absolutely true.
Speaker 7: And what strikes me is that because we've each been
Speaker 7: in therapy, each member of the group has been in therapy,
Speaker 7: we're familiar to the idea of being in a therapeutic
Speaker 7: holding space and we bring that into the group and
Speaker 7: we bring that to each other.
Speaker 3: And so when the brother invited.
Speaker 7: Me into the group, before I met Ken, I felt
Speaker 7: that this would be a safe group because of my
Speaker 7: experience with him, and then of course me can I
Speaker 7: trust that this would be a wonderful group of men,
Speaker 7: and so we come together and it's not a space
Speaker 7: of competition, it's not a space of it's a judgment
Speaker 7: free zone. So I feel completely safe sharing you know,
Speaker 7: my heart, my desires, my success is my failures, triumph, triumphs,
Speaker 7: and traumas with this group of men. And one way
Speaker 7: that I see it is that we hold each other
Speaker 7: in the light of our attention. And I feel like
Speaker 7: in that light, when we're offering our hearts and we're
Speaker 7: just being seen and heard by each other, we're calling
Speaker 7: something forth. We're calling forth just more of who we
Speaker 7: are as men and as human beings. And it's a
Speaker 7: tremendous honor and blessing to sit in a group of men,
Speaker 7: to be seen, to be mirrored. You know, when I'm
Speaker 7: sitting and sharing, sometimes man will reflect something back to
Speaker 7: me about myself that I've completely overlooked, you know, something good,
Speaker 7: something positive that I haven't owned, and it helps me
Speaker 7: to kind of own aspects of myself. And when I'm
Speaker 7: sharing something difficult, you know, a reflection from a man
Speaker 7: will kind of give me a different perspective that helps
Speaker 7: me see what I'm going through in a different way,
Speaker 7: and you know, I'm able to meet that challenge with
Speaker 7: a little more strength, with a little more ingenuity.
Speaker 3: Fantastic. Let me ask is how did you get into
Speaker 3: the group and what has been how long have you
Speaker 3: been in the group and what has your experience been
Speaker 3: and is that experience what you expected?
Speaker 8: Thank you, Thank you, Robert. How I got in the
Speaker 8: group was I had an awakening about eleven years ago,
Speaker 8: and in that process, I realized that I'm needed to
Speaker 8: go within, and so I sought therapy and I was
Speaker 8: looking for specifically a youngiin therapist and and Ken cost
Speaker 8: my we can's paths and he helps he helps me
Speaker 8: go within and understand what it is that I need
Speaker 8: to work on myself within. And so that's how that
Speaker 8: came to be. And then after a few months, and
Speaker 8: I've been with the group about three years. So after
Speaker 8: a few months, Ken suggested that I joined this group,
Speaker 8: and I, you know, it's been a while for me
Speaker 8: to be in the camaraderie of men. And what I
Speaker 8: really enjoy about this particular group is that because we
Speaker 8: are varying ages, we have experiences that we can that
Speaker 8: we had in common, let's say, as men.
Speaker 5: And then there's.
Speaker 8: Also a mentorship that we have to the younger men
Speaker 8: in the group. It's a it's a beautiful because there's
Speaker 8: eight of us altogether, so you just think you just
Speaker 8: before the eighth Okay, So that's it's a really good group.
Speaker 4: And what I want to point out is that the
Speaker 4: young men mentor us also.
Speaker 8: That's true, absolutely all.
Speaker 3: Right, and now we have I want to get to everybody.
Speaker 3: So Randall and Alex as father and son, which I
Speaker 3: think is fantastic. You guys are both in the group.
Speaker 3: Why don't you go ahead on your own and just
Speaker 3: tell us about that experience, how who got in first,
Speaker 3: how the other person got in, and what's been the
Speaker 3: dynamic while the two of you have been in this
Speaker 3: group together, and how has it impacted your relationship and
Speaker 3: if there were any issues before that have been resolved
Speaker 3: while being in the group. I know I threw a
Speaker 3: lot at you, but just talk to us.
Speaker 9: Take it away about how about I started off?
Speaker 10: Okay, Yeah, I've been in the group for I don't know,
Speaker 10: maybe four years, and coming out of working with Ken
Speaker 10: into that situation has been absolutely wonderful, and as as
Speaker 10: one of us indicated before, like an opportunity to come
Speaker 10: out of that.
Speaker 9: That a very frequent.
Speaker 10: Experience of feeling kind of isolated emotionally, and to be
Speaker 10: able to to have the freedom to express both both
Speaker 10: my despair and my excitement and everything in between, and
Speaker 10: not have it ever be judged. Has just been an
Speaker 10: absolutely empowering experience for me and has just meant the world.
Speaker 10: And so I'm exceedingly grateful. And as Alex, who has
Speaker 10: been in the group for a little while, came in,
Speaker 10: I guess probably important to understand that aside from the
Speaker 10: fact that we're in the group together, we also together
Speaker 10: every day.
Speaker 9: We have a.
Speaker 10: Woodworking business, and Alex has been working in my woodworking
Speaker 10: business now for well over fifteen years, and so you
Speaker 10: could say that we have a very very engaged relationship.
Speaker 10: And as alexis has joined the therapy and kind of
Speaker 10: like the opportunity came up for him to join the group,
Speaker 10: for me, it was just like this amazing opportunity to
Speaker 10: be able to present my vulnerability to him as a as.
Speaker 9: A man, and too.
Speaker 10: Like expand my curiosity about about how would it be
Speaker 10: for us as a father and son to be in
Speaker 10: this particular context of being an immense group, of being
Speaker 10: emotionally vulnerable, like I said, and like to to and
Speaker 10: to find out what was going to be the the
Speaker 10: takeaway for the group in general, because I can I
Speaker 10: can assure you that every single one of us has
Speaker 10: what we might refer to as father issues or dad issues.
Speaker 10: I myself definitely, and and it's like, well, won't won't
Speaker 10: be cool to see how to see how we can
Speaker 10: work with what might be construed as dad issues with
Speaker 10: the actual father and son as you know, the guys
Speaker 10: in the test tube. And it's just been kind of
Speaker 10: marvelous for me too to be able to, how to say,
Speaker 10: expose myself to my son in ways that you know,
Speaker 10: are completely unprecedented for me in my life. And it's
Speaker 10: just felt like the uh, the benefits for us in
Speaker 10: our particular relationship, and I think it kind of ripples
Speaker 10: out have just been fabulous in terms of just experiencing
Speaker 10: each other's humanity, our challenges, and I'm just continually curious
Speaker 10: about where we're going to go with it and how
Speaker 10: it will enrich our relationship and how does we get
Speaker 10: to operate together?
Speaker 3: Okay, fantastic? Okay, Alex, So I heard from your dad
Speaker 3: for you, how did you get into the group? Was
Speaker 3: it your idea? Was it your dad's idea? What do
Speaker 3: you think about you know, getting together and you're hearing
Speaker 3: the you know, experiencing witnessing the vulnerabilities that your dad has,
Speaker 3: which to me is very courageous. And then how about
Speaker 3: you being able to talk in a group about some
Speaker 3: of your issues when your dad's sitting right across the
Speaker 3: table from you.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so we have the super deep relationship we've been
Speaker 11: working together. Like you said, this is our twentieth year
Speaker 11: working together, So we have this kind of platform that
Speaker 11: we're used to working in, and the say hierarchy is
Speaker 11: kind of you know, it is what it is at
Speaker 11: this point. So getting this other platform and context to
Speaker 11: be working in has just been incredible. Getting to work
Speaker 11: with Ken has been The growth is real and I
Speaker 11: feel like having this context of the men's group is
Speaker 11: it's kind of like a pressure cooker for growth when
Speaker 11: you're emerging into the next phase of life, like I
Speaker 11: kind of am. My wife is pregnant, I got married
Speaker 11: this year, taking over the business as we're going along here.
Speaker 11: So yeah, having having this space to communicate and work
Speaker 11: with my dad alongside having this context of all these
Speaker 11: other men is just Yeah, it's a really incredible space
Speaker 11: to be in and fantastic.
Speaker 3: Okay, good yeah, all right, Okay, guys, guys Radio Robert
Speaker 3: Mann and your host that we're doing a show a
Speaker 3: little bit differently today. You know, we're doing We're doing
Speaker 3: a men's group, and you know, we exploring the show
Speaker 3: everything from relationships, the personal development, spirituality, culture and what
Speaker 3: it really means to be a man in today's changing world.
Speaker 3: So our show today's a little bit different. Instead of
Speaker 3: interviewing one guest, we're joined by five members of Ken's group,
Speaker 3: Ken's Men's group, and we're having a discussion. So let's
Speaker 3: pick it up. Let's have some fun here because I'm
Speaker 3: sure your group has some fun. So Ken, talk to
Speaker 3: us about the group itself. You are a Youngian psychologist.
Speaker 3: These guys have been your patients, and I'm assuming other
Speaker 3: guys in the group have been your clients. Whatever, How
Speaker 3: does that dynamic shape the culture of the group and
Speaker 3: do you think you would have a different group if
Speaker 3: it weren't your clients.
Speaker 4: I think I would definitely have a different group if
Speaker 4: if it wasn't Like allis, I think that the depth
Speaker 4: of relationship that I have with each man is so
Speaker 4: profound even before they step into the group.
Speaker 5: And I think that.
Speaker 4: My sense of you know, what's moving in them, what's
Speaker 4: important to them, what needs to come forward is you know,
Speaker 4: is fairly crystallized by the time they come in, and
Speaker 4: it helps me to hold space, It helps me to
Speaker 4: know the depth of the vulnerabilities. And you know, one
Speaker 4: of the things that I was thinking about as the
Speaker 4: men we're talking is, you know, one of the operative
Speaker 4: core emotions that I think that people don't understand, fully
Speaker 4: understand about men is the level of shame that shuts us.
Speaker 5: Down very early in life.
Speaker 4: We're basically shamed out of our feeling, our out of
Speaker 4: our hearts, out of our emotional life at a very
Speaker 4: early age. And uh, And part of what we're trying
Speaker 4: to do is create a context of a fellowship that
Speaker 4: helps to lift that shame and helps us to move
Speaker 4: beyond that shame, because I think that what each of
Speaker 4: us wants is each of us.
Speaker 5: Wants to move forward into life, to come forward.
Speaker 4: To fully manifest, to become and be the people we
Speaker 4: truly are. And you know, as Alex was saying, it's
Speaker 4: kind of an alchemical chamber. It's a it's a testing
Speaker 4: environment for us to to learn how to be completely
Speaker 4: transparent and authentic with with others and to be held
Speaker 4: with love, you know, to be held really in the
Speaker 4: context of love and appreciation, okay, and that's what's evolved
Speaker 4: in this community.
Speaker 3: Okay, guys, you have kind of a this is just
Speaker 3: a microcosm of the group. We don't have all eight
Speaker 3: members here, but you have a little bit of a
Speaker 3: cultural mash up here, which is great. You guys feel
Speaker 3: from the different cultures and backgrounds you come from that
Speaker 3: it's different. By doing something like this is a big leap.
Speaker 3: If you are I'm going to take a guess that
Speaker 3: is you some type of Middle Eastern. Is that correct?
Speaker 5: Well, I have actually Northern Indian idiot.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'm sorry, Yeah, I'm sorry.
Speaker 5: That's fine.
Speaker 8: But the generations ago, my forefathers went to South Africa,
Speaker 8: Southern Africa, okay, and so, and then that over to
Speaker 8: Kenya and then over to Canada and now the US.
Speaker 3: Okay, so culture of the world culturally is something like
Speaker 3: this more welcome, welcomed from where you grow grew up
Speaker 3: or is this something that's a it's a big leap,
Speaker 3: even a bigger leap than some of the guys who
Speaker 3: are from here.
Speaker 8: Yes, you know, typically it is. It is a big
Speaker 8: leap from because the culture, even though it was several
Speaker 8: generations removed that northern Indian culture is very patriarchal, and
Speaker 8: so that has led itself through multiple generations and it
Speaker 8: led into my generation as well, and it typically is
Speaker 8: a big league. But I can't. I was called a
Speaker 8: sensitive one when I was a child, when I was
Speaker 8: a kid with my three other siblings, so I end
Speaker 8: up being more open hearted. But it's still it's still
Speaker 8: a challenge too. But I, like I said earlier, I
Speaker 8: love being in the camaraderie of men. I ride with
Speaker 8: a motorcycle group as well, and that's also a lot
Speaker 8: of fun that you know, it's a different level of
Speaker 8: depth that you go into.
Speaker 3: How about Xavier, what's your sense from a cultural background
Speaker 3: in terms of entering a group like this. Is this
Speaker 3: something like other folks that you would know in your family,
Speaker 3: et cetera would say, oh my god, I can't believe
Speaker 3: you're doing that, or is this something that's encouraged, and say,
Speaker 3: I totally get it. That's cool.
Speaker 7: Well, as we said, my last name is Kreen Cooder,
Speaker 7: which is Dutch, right, so okay, my blonde hair and
Speaker 7: blue eyes, but you know, having African air at age
Speaker 7: Dutch and you know, Native American, I personally am multi cultural,
Speaker 7: so my personal stance with that as I see each
Speaker 7: person has a reflection of me. You know, I've got
Speaker 7: I've got all of it in me. And so what
Speaker 7: strikes me even more than the cultural aspect, which is,
Speaker 7: you know, we all understand and we relate, but you know,
Speaker 7: we're all Americans. We're all really Western men living in America.
Speaker 3: It's the fact that we have a father and son.
Speaker 7: You know, I'm a son, I had a father my
Speaker 7: father's past and seeing their dynamic reflected helps to heal
Speaker 7: my father issues. Right, We've got men at different ages,
Speaker 7: and when we talk with each other, we relate to
Speaker 7: that aspect of ourselves.
Speaker 3: And so it's really like.
Speaker 7: This microcosm macrocosm reflected in our group that's reflected in
Speaker 7: our individual selves and the growth is just it and
Speaker 7: it balloons out to this universal feeling too, because I
Speaker 7: feel like we're across section of our larger culture.
Speaker 3: Okay, so, uh, when you guys get together, I guess
Speaker 3: this one's for Ken. Is this an do you see?
Speaker 3: This is the way it plays out? Is an expansion
Speaker 3: of a young psychology session or it is a men's group,
Speaker 3: and it could go a lot of different ways. And
Speaker 3: what happens with the groups? How often do you meet,
Speaker 3: how long do you meet for? What do you do
Speaker 3: during your sessions? Because I think a lot of the
Speaker 3: listeners and viewers out there are wondering thinking, Hey, you know,
Speaker 3: this is a great idea, having men being able to
Speaker 3: talk to each other, because I think one one thing
Speaker 3: that we all suffer from universally as men, is kind
Speaker 3: of an isolationism, if you will, like I think Robert
Speaker 3: bly talked about and uh, it's something that's needed. So
Speaker 3: I think from a tactical standpoint, I think people be interesting,
Speaker 3: ken and knowing. How do how do you manage the group?
Speaker 3: How does it how does it flow?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: First of all, I don't I don't manage these guys.
Speaker 4: They they manage themselves. But what but what what I
Speaker 4: think we've done is we we've adopted a model of
Speaker 4: kind of a ritual men's group.
Speaker 5: We meet outside, we have a fire.
Speaker 4: You know, even though I facilitate the group, I don't
Speaker 4: I consider myself kind of a member of the group.
Speaker 5: I don't don't I don't sit.
Speaker 3: On a or do you share?
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it's it's not it's not a psychotherapy group.
Speaker 4: We you know, we we find ways to ritualize the
Speaker 4: space and so that we know it's kind of it's
Speaker 4: a liminal space, which means that when we're walking from
Speaker 4: the outside to the inside of the group, we're passing
Speaker 4: into a special, sacred space. And so we find ways
Speaker 4: to create that that container or that that boundary. We
Speaker 4: set intentions, we drum, we sing, and we try to
Speaker 4: cultivate a space that can go very deep. But also
Speaker 4: there are men bringing in, uh, you know, current issues
Speaker 4: with family members or you know, births, or you know,
Speaker 4: other kinds of issues, and we we're there for each other.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: One of the feelings that I have, and I'll just
Speaker 4: say this one last thing is that you know, if
Speaker 4: anybody called any one of us at three in the morning,
Speaker 4: you know, with a crisis and needed what, we would
Speaker 4: all be on the doorstep within fifteen minutes. And that's
Speaker 4: the kind of space that I believe that we've created.
Speaker 4: And it's that men are so hungry for. Okay, anyway,
Speaker 4: sorry interrupt No, no, no.
Speaker 3: No, not at all. I interrupted you. So listen. Let's
Speaker 3: we're just having a conversation here and I'm trying to
Speaker 3: get as much information out to our listeners who are
Speaker 3: probably considering, Hey, maybe you know I want to get
Speaker 3: my group together. I know with my friends, do we
Speaker 3: have text exchanges? Now there's four guys on one text,
Speaker 3: is eight guys on another text. I'm sure you guys
Speaker 3: have experienced this and you go back and forth and
Speaker 3: somebody puts a mema where they talk about the World
Speaker 3: Cup or whatever it is. But it's pretty much surface stuff.
Speaker 3: But at least it keeps you connected. So I guess
Speaker 3: my question again, Ken, is when you how often do
Speaker 3: you guys get together? And is there a you have,
Speaker 3: like a little syllabus for the group or something, or
Speaker 3: an agenda you mentioned some ritual. Did you do something
Speaker 3: to get into the mode for the group? How long
Speaker 3: does the session last? And also anything taboo to the
Speaker 3: group that you just don't go into, like do you
Speaker 3: guys talk about sex?
Speaker 4: So we meet once a month. We generally meet for
Speaker 4: about two or three hours. We trust process. I think
Speaker 4: one of the things the elements that I feel is
Speaker 4: very important were the men that I bring in is
Speaker 4: that they trust that there's a process that will deepen. Now,
Speaker 4: one of the roles of a facilitator, I should say,
Speaker 4: you know each one of us facilitates in our own way.
Speaker 4: So I don't want to put myself in a position
Speaker 4: as being the core facilitator. What is to keep the
Speaker 4: group moving deeper because it's very easy for men and
Speaker 4: women as well to stay at a very superficial level,
Speaker 4: and we need to.
Speaker 5: Find ways to.
Speaker 4: Invite depth, to facilitate depth, to redirect when you know,
Speaker 4: conversations or when process is going in.
Speaker 5: A direction that's not fruitful for the group. And so
Speaker 5: there's a subtle true north I think that.
Speaker 4: Has emerged in the group and men, you know, at
Speaker 4: this point, trust the process and we know.
Speaker 5: How to go there okay together, And I'd love to
Speaker 5: hear others.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want to ask Alex a question because I
Speaker 3: have won a jam in as much information as possible
Speaker 3: in the time we have. Alex, you're the youngest in
Speaker 3: the group. You've come into this, You've got your dad.
Speaker 3: That's a big dynamic right there. You've got these other
Speaker 3: guys that are all older, and I'm sure a lot
Speaker 3: of younger guys out there who are listening or watching
Speaker 3: the show are wondering, Hey, you know, I get it.
Speaker 3: That's really cool. I wonder what Alex's experience has been
Speaker 3: and if this is something that I should try to
Speaker 3: pull together with my mates.
Speaker 11: Yeah, so I think like the for me, a really
Speaker 11: wonderful thing about this group is that we do have
Speaker 11: a through line of this psychology that we do with Ken.
Speaker 11: So having kind of an undercurrent of this we're here
Speaker 11: to do deeper work and we're here to grow together
Speaker 11: is kind of the bottom line of what we're doing here.
Speaker 11: So for anybody trying to put something like this together,
Speaker 11: I highly recommend like finding that through line of gravitas
Speaker 11: and progress and what are what are we here for?
Speaker 11: And what do we what do we all have in common?
Speaker 11: And where are we trying to go? And let's try
Speaker 11: to put together a context to speak it in a
Speaker 11: place that's that we all want to spend time in.
Speaker 3: And it's so interesting for a guys. I remember my
Speaker 3: dad who was here of mine, and he passed, and
Speaker 3: he was out doing stuff I can't even get into.
Speaker 3: But you know, I remember one time he knew I
Speaker 3: was having a tough time. We didn't have intimate conversations
Speaker 3: or anything. He'd ask me about work and business and
Speaker 3: that was his focus, and he traveled a lot. But
Speaker 3: one time I got I was living in the city,
Speaker 3: a little studio apartment, and I got this card in
Speaker 3: the mail and I opened it up and it was
Speaker 3: a kid on stage holding a violin facing a crowd.
Speaker 3: And I opened it up and said, believe in yourself,
Speaker 3: Love Dad. And I kept that card my entire thirty
Speaker 3: years in New York and that's all I needed. So
Speaker 3: do you find that It's like sometimes you get something,
Speaker 3: a symbolic thing that happens that means the most to you,
Speaker 3: can mean more than just words. And again this is
Speaker 3: for one more for Alex. What have you learned about
Speaker 3: older guys? And what have you learned about your dad?
Speaker 3: With all due respect that you can talk about that
Speaker 3: you didn't know before.
Speaker 11: I know, yeah, yeah, I know, I have a lot.
Speaker 11: I have a lot to say about it that I
Speaker 11: think just seeing my dad be vulnerable and in this
Speaker 11: context and having it not be all about me and
Speaker 11: my dad, but like seeing him as a man and
Speaker 11: having him see me as a man, and seeing all
Speaker 11: these other guys as men coming into this group. It's
Speaker 11: easy to be like, oh, I'm the youngest guy, what
Speaker 11: can I glean from this? But I think the biggest
Speaker 11: opportunity for growth has been like mirror mirroring this group
Speaker 11: and seeing that I am a man and I'm growing
Speaker 11: into this thing that I'm going to be in the future.
Speaker 11: And but you know as well, right now I'm a
Speaker 11: man and I'm just learning about how to how to
Speaker 11: do that and seeing that these guys are on their
Speaker 11: own process and there's not some threshold you pass us
Speaker 11: where then you're a man. It's like this journey that
Speaker 11: we're all on and we're all on it together.
Speaker 3: That's fantastic. That's a fantastic Randall, what's your your take
Speaker 3: on that? And how what have you learned without getting
Speaker 3: you know, personal about what have you learned about your
Speaker 3: son and about yourself and about your relationships just since
Speaker 3: joining the group that maybe you might have not gotten
Speaker 3: if you weren't together in this experience.
Speaker 9: Well, thanks for asking. In terms of in terms of stuff.
Speaker 10: That I had that I've had the privilege of observing
Speaker 10: with Alex, is that.
Speaker 9: That we had in the group.
Speaker 10: We have this, we have the context of depth and
Speaker 10: in and in the relationships that I have with my other.
Speaker 9: Sons, we get to kind of like.
Speaker 10: Expand on the the the experience of going to depth
Speaker 10: with between me and Alex I sort of have a
Speaker 10: format for being able to do that with my other
Speaker 10: sons without having them be in the group. So there's
Speaker 10: this expansive aspect of the energy that happens in the
Speaker 10: group that I've found to be incredibly valuable to me individually.
Speaker 10: And so that's one thing.
Speaker 9: There.
Speaker 10: Another thing I just wanted to say, because you were
Speaker 10: asked about the the.
Speaker 9: Issue is like do we get together and talk about sex?
Speaker 10: And I guess that would be the thing that I
Speaker 10: would maybe put in about it is like it's definitely
Speaker 10: not a taboo subject. But the reality is that in
Speaker 10: the group, the focus, the focus can can it can
Speaker 10: start dissipating outward, but it really belongs in here. And
Speaker 10: so if there's any if there's any how would I
Speaker 10: say steerage that can my have to that might have
Speaker 10: to apply from time to time is kind of like, uh,
Speaker 10: come back here, come back here, and let's let's see
Speaker 10: where we where are we at this level now? So
Speaker 10: though we all have relationships, and most of us are
Speaker 10: married and some of us have been married a few times,
Speaker 10: it's just like, yeah, that we can any of us
Speaker 10: can talk about our relationships. But it's really like, no, man,
Speaker 10: this is an opportunity for a couple hours a month
Speaker 10: to just like focus on what's going on in the
Speaker 10: heart and what's going on for me as a man
Speaker 10: in the context of this world. And and so it's
Speaker 10: like an opportunity for me that I never really want
Speaker 10: to miss.
Speaker 3: Okay, yep, absolutely is. You know, today's conversations about masculinity
Speaker 3: often they're polarizing. What does healthy masculinity mean to you?
Speaker 3: And how has that shifted, if at all, from being
Speaker 3: part of the group.
Speaker 8: Thank you that for me, healthy masculinity is the courage
Speaker 8: to be vulnerable and to be strong in that space
Speaker 8: of vulnerability. And what I loved about and what I
Speaker 8: still love about these men is that I can share
Speaker 8: the depths of my soul with them. I don't have
Speaker 8: to be ashamed or hide anything. And to be able
Speaker 8: to be that vulnerable in that safe container is something
Speaker 8: that I've been missing my whole life. I'm sixty five
Speaker 8: years old, and so this is happening, you know, later
Speaker 8: in my life. But it's still a beautiful journey. And
Speaker 8: like I said, it's just it's helped me to be
Speaker 8: more of a.
Speaker 3: Bad xavier and on the same kind of vein if
Speaker 3: you have some friends and they said, I don't need
Speaker 3: a men's group. What would you tell them, Because everybody,
Speaker 3: all guys have some type of issues because we keep
Speaker 3: it all, you know, we keep it all here unless
Speaker 3: there's a big announcement about something, like a friend of mine,
Speaker 3: what we talk about is sports and drink beer and
Speaker 3: watch the Yankees or whatever. And then he said, oh,
Speaker 3: by the way, I'm getting a divorce. And then I'm like,
Speaker 3: oh my god. He was married twenty two years and
Speaker 3: I asked him kind of like why and it was
Speaker 3: because his wife wasn't laughing laughing at his jokes. That
Speaker 3: was the top line I got. Obviously the issues went
Speaker 3: far deeper than that, but that's the type of thing
Speaker 3: that's pretty you know often and he would probably say,
Speaker 3: I don't need to be part of a men's group
Speaker 3: just because we're so you know, protective of our feelings.
Speaker 3: We don't want to be vulnerable. What would you tell
Speaker 3: your buddies if they said, yeah, you know what, Xavier,
Speaker 3: I don't I don't need a men's group.
Speaker 7: I got this, Yes, yes, well that would definitely for me.
Speaker 7: For one of my friends require a conversation about depth,
Speaker 7: a word that Randall just used in a couple other
Speaker 7: men depth.
Speaker 3: Why the fear of depth?
Speaker 7: You know, why are we afraid of our emotions? Because
Speaker 7: we've been cut off as men from that feeling nature,
Speaker 7: and we've been taught that emotions and feelings are weak,
Speaker 7: that when we cry or if we confess hurt, that
Speaker 7: that is somehow you know you're a pussy, if you're
Speaker 7: if you have all these feelings. But we all have
Speaker 7: these feelings. So we need to stop denying these important
Speaker 7: parts of ourselves. And we need a place where we
Speaker 7: can come, as is said, and show the strength of
Speaker 7: a vulnerability and on the fact that in our vulnerability
Speaker 7: there is tremendous strength that has not been accepted, that
Speaker 7: has not been mined. It's a tremendously rich vein to
Speaker 7: explore together. And so we need to face that fear.
Speaker 7: And men, you know, we don't talk about what we're
Speaker 7: afraid of, but for me, I'd have to call my
Speaker 7: buddy out on the fear of being vulnerable.
Speaker 5: Here.
Speaker 3: You know, ken you've done such a masterful job. I mean,
Speaker 3: these guys are amazing and can Lacret's.
Speaker 5: I take responsibility for all these day.
Speaker 3: So how has this group, how has the dynamic of
Speaker 3: the group evolved since you started the group, and what
Speaker 3: have you learned personally for yourself as a man and
Speaker 3: also for your practice about how you've seen the dynamic
Speaker 3: by taking individual clients, putting them all together and being
Speaker 3: the common thread being men and having conversations that go deeper.
Speaker 4: You know, I want to start out by talking about context,
Speaker 4: because one of the things that I knew before this,
Speaker 4: and I think that's really important to articulate, is that
Speaker 4: you know, there's a cellular memory that men have that
Speaker 4: go back, you know, over one hundred thousand years, maybe
Speaker 4: hundreds of thousands of years of coming together in rites
Speaker 4: of passage and you know, alding mechanisms that you and
Speaker 4: I talked about when we talked about in our previous interview,
Speaker 4: And this is something that when it's the group that
Speaker 4: when you get men together, they access to cellular memory.
Speaker 4: There's something in us that just knows what it means
Speaker 4: to be in a context like this and when we're
Speaker 4: being eldered and when we're in a sacred context in
Speaker 4: which that offers the opportunity of transformation. And what I've
Speaker 4: seen is deep transformation in the men, both in my
Speaker 4: practice but in the group, and the group offers something
Speaker 4: that I can't offer my individual practice. Like I said,
Speaker 4: it's a it's a food, it's a relationship. And I've
Speaker 4: seen this group evolve over the past decade in ways
Speaker 4: that are warm my heart so deeply I can I
Speaker 4: can barely express to you, you know, the meaning behind it.
Speaker 4: And my feeling is this is what this community represents
Speaker 4: is the core of what all men need for their
Speaker 4: their health, for their maturity, to reduce isolation, to the
Speaker 4: feeling of camaraderie. And I think that in a safe
Speaker 4: place to come with our deep wounds. And I think
Speaker 4: without this, we see the kind of crises that we're
Speaker 4: seeing culture maybe worldwide with men where they are feeling
Speaker 4: isolated and they start to you know, medicate these feelings.
Speaker 4: They have no place to bring them, and therapy isn't
Speaker 4: always the answer to this. So this is a very special,
Speaker 4: very very ancient context.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, therapy takes a lot of different forms,
Speaker 3: could be conversation, could be going for a walk together
Speaker 3: or whatever. But so how did new members how do
Speaker 3: you get do you look for new members or in
Speaker 3: your practices, say you know what this guy could really
Speaker 3: benefit from being part of the men's group because you
Speaker 3: have other dudes to talk to, or how do you
Speaker 3: how do you manage that process? Because I'm just thinking
Speaker 3: for people out there who are thinking about I should
Speaker 3: get a bunch of guys together, well, some of the
Speaker 3: guidelines you would recommend.
Speaker 4: Well, this is a very hard topic for me because
Speaker 4: I think, I think this group has been very clear
Speaker 4: that we've kind of we've maxed out in terms of
Speaker 4: the numbers. And I but men come through my group
Speaker 4: and I go, my goodness, they would benefit so much
Speaker 4: from this community. And you know, initially one of the
Speaker 4: reasons why we started this group is because there there
Speaker 4: was no other place to refer them, and I wish
Speaker 4: I had places to refer them, and I wish there
Speaker 4: were hundreds of opportunities for men which I can't unfortunately provide.
Speaker 4: So up until this point, what I have done is,
Speaker 4: you know, I've kind of sensed into when you know
Speaker 4: a man is ready for this community when he has reached.
Speaker 5: A level of connection with.
Speaker 4: The deepest aspect, the most sacred aspect of its being,
Speaker 4: so he understands what it means to be in a
Speaker 4: ritual space like this. Okay, and then I would introd
Speaker 4: you know, I would talk to the men and you know,
Speaker 4: ask them if this is something that they felt comfortable with,
Speaker 4: and we would invite the man in.
Speaker 5: And sometimes most of the time it works, and sometimes
Speaker 5: it doesn't. Okay, but we generally put a cap on
Speaker 5: the group. At this point, all right, we.
Speaker 3: Just have time for one more question. I want to
Speaker 3: go to each of the four guys and take thirty
Speaker 3: seconds tops, because we're on a time we have a
Speaker 3: time limit. So what's your best advice to guys out there?
Speaker 3: Just one thing that you could say. Maybe it's from
Speaker 3: something you've learned in the group or just something you've
Speaker 3: learned from life. Best advice for men right now, let's
Speaker 3: start with you, Randall, take.
Speaker 9: Risks and.
Speaker 10: Really embrace the opportunity to fail and get up and
Speaker 10: take another risk.
Speaker 11: Perfect, Okay, Alex, Yeah, be as vulnerable as you can
Speaker 11: because probably everybody around you is feeling the way that
Speaker 11: you do. So if you can figure out a way
Speaker 11: to connect with them, that's like, that's the basis very
Speaker 11: wise is.
Speaker 8: Well, I think everyone needs a therapist, so you start there.
Speaker 8: And then the other thing is I truly do especially
Speaker 8: a youngin therapist. And then The other thing is again
Speaker 8: like as you take risks and you go deep with
Speaker 8: those around you from a space of vulnerability, you know,
Speaker 8: just with some take that risk.
Speaker 7: Okay and Xavier, guys, don't cut off your manhood. Stop
Speaker 7: cutting your manhood off these soft parts of you. What
Speaker 7: you would think of is feminine parts are important part
Speaker 7: of you. If you keep stuffing the emotions, you're going
Speaker 7: to get sick physically, emotionally, mentally. Find a place where
Speaker 7: you can let these out in a safe place.
Speaker 5: Love it.
Speaker 3: Ken, You've done such an amazing job with these guys,
Speaker 3: and guys an amazing job working with Ken and working
Speaker 3: with each other. I have so much admiration for you.
Speaker 3: Keep doing what you're doing. Ken, I got just a
Speaker 3: couple of moments left. Any final words.
Speaker 4: Well, I just want to say they've done an amazing
Speaker 4: job with me. So you know it goes both ways.
Speaker 4: It's a relationship. And I think that you know my
Speaker 4: advice two therapists out there who like to segregate themselves
Speaker 4: from relationship with their clients, I would say, loosen that
Speaker 4: boundary because we are our relationships with all of the
Speaker 4: people in our life are incredibly important. And I am
Speaker 4: just unbelievably grateful for these men in my life, and
Speaker 4: they're part of my life in my community as well.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, gentlemen, thank you for your honesty, your courage,
Speaker 3: your willingness to share your experience. One of the themes
Speaker 3: I keep hearing is that strength isn't about pretending to
Speaker 3: have all the answers, is about having the courage to
Speaker 3: show up, be accountable, and walk through life with trusted
Speaker 3: brothers by your side. Great job, guys, Ken's Men's Group.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for being on Guys Guys Radio.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you're inspired a lot of folks out there.
Speaker 3: Keep doing what you're doing. Fellas. Thank you, thanks so much.
Speaker 3: It's Guys guy Radio. Okay, fascinating conversation with Ken Lackret's
Speaker 3: and his men's group. We talked to four other gentlemen
Speaker 3: who really are very sincere and take being in the
Speaker 3: men's group seriously, and it sounds like they really get
Speaker 3: a lot of insights from sharing with each other. And
Speaker 3: we had the two gentlemen, the father and the son,
Speaker 3: and wow, that's amazing. Can you imagine going to a
Speaker 3: men's group with your father or your son? Incredible? So
Speaker 3: I give so much credit to Ken and what the
Speaker 3: guys are doing collectively to really bring communication to the
Speaker 3: next level and get beyond the service. And I think
Speaker 3: that's what it's all about, regardless of what type of
Speaker 3: men's group you join or if you want to create one,
Speaker 3: or just getting together with your pals, see if you
Speaker 3: can take the conversation to a deeper place than just
Speaker 3: talking about sports and what type of wine you like
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, because there's a lot more and
Speaker 3: I think it's important that men continue to build a
Speaker 3: dialogue with one another.
Speaker 5: Thank you for.
Speaker 3: Listening to Guys Guys Radio. We'll be back next week
Speaker 3: with a brand new episode. And until then, like I
Speaker 3: always say, guys guys, finish first.
Speaker 5: Wow. Express one oh six point five FM, the number
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Speaker 12: Behind i'm Doctor Anthony, lyserwitz and this is climate. Connections
Speaker 12: climate change is increasingly disrupting kids. Education when extreme weather,
Speaker 12: hits schools often close for kids. Safety, hurricanes, floods, storms,
Speaker 12: snow freezing, cold and wildfire smoke can all prompts RULs
Speaker 12: to shut their doors or send kids home. Early and many,
Speaker 12: schools especially in northern, areas lack air conditioning and have
Speaker 12: had to close during extreme heat.
Speaker 2: Waves those are schools that were built without cooling that
Speaker 2: now need.
Speaker 12: Cooling Jonathan kline is THE ceo of the climate and
Speaker 12: education Nonprofit UNDAUNTED k. Twelve his group maps instances across
Speaker 12: THE us when a school day or school activity was, canceled,
Speaker 12: delayed or cut short by extreme.
Speaker 2: Weather every time we hear of a school disrupted by extreme,
Speaker 2: weather we put.
Speaker 14: It on the.
Speaker 12: Map klein says That in the twenty twenty four to
Speaker 12: twenty twenty five school, year extreme weather disrupted school for
Speaker 12: nine million, students and this past year in his state Of,
Speaker 12: california students lost about a half million hours of instructional.
Speaker 12: Time when school is, canceled parents may have to skip
Speaker 12: work to stay home with their, kids and many families
Speaker 12: also rely on school breakfast and, lunch so the impacts
Speaker 12: go far beyond lost learning. Time Climate connections is produced
Speaker 12: by The Yale center For Environmental. Communication to learn more
Speaker 12: about climate, change visit climate connections dot.
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