WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.120 --> 00:00:08.000 Oh, folks, it's show Die. 2 00:00:08.640 --> 00:00:11.279 People say good money to see this movie. When they 3 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:13.320 go out to a theater, they want cold. 4 00:00:13.160 --> 00:00:16.280 Sodas from a pop popcorn, and no monsters in the 5 00:00:16.359 --> 00:00:17.199 protection booth. 6 00:00:17.359 --> 00:00:19.519 Everyone for tend. Podcasting isn't boring. 7 00:00:20.239 --> 00:00:20.920 Cut it off. 8 00:00:47.079 --> 00:00:54.240 Jenny Rowlands is Gloria. She's tough, but she sides. 9 00:00:53.920 --> 00:00:54.719 With the little guy. 10 00:00:58.520 --> 00:00:59.320 I don't want to die. 11 00:01:00.200 --> 00:01:01.479 What do I do with you? 12 00:01:01.479 --> 00:01:03.000 You know you're not my family or anything. 13 00:01:03.079 --> 00:01:09.120 You're just a neighbor's kid, right, Gloria. 14 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:12.200 You know we're not interested in you. 15 00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:14.480 All we want is the book and the kid. 16 00:01:15.159 --> 00:01:16.000 What you're going to do? 17 00:01:16.200 --> 00:01:18.480 Shoot a six year old kid on the street? 18 00:01:31.200 --> 00:01:37.560 For Gloria, the danger is always getting closer, and getting 19 00:01:37.719 --> 00:01:40.519 closer is always the danger. 20 00:01:41.959 --> 00:01:47.680 Tony, Gloria, how are you? 21 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:48.359 Can you help me? 22 00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.719 Glor Yeah, maybe you can do something. 23 00:01:53.799 --> 00:01:54.319 Trust you? 24 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:59.200 Hey, Tony, I know you. Where is the boy? 25 00:02:00.040 --> 00:02:01.159 I don't want to go home? 26 00:02:02.760 --> 00:02:03.959 Hey, don't be stupid. 27 00:02:04.079 --> 00:02:04.920 You got no home. 28 00:02:05.400 --> 00:02:05.920 You got me. 29 00:02:06.719 --> 00:02:08.280 I understand you got a woman. 30 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:09.840 He is a little boy. 31 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:14.039 You'll follow in love. Every woman is a mother. You 32 00:02:14.199 --> 00:02:16.319 love him? 33 00:02:16.439 --> 00:02:17.280 I love Bill? 34 00:02:18.039 --> 00:02:18.800 You love me? 35 00:02:19.879 --> 00:02:20.840 How can I resist you? 36 00:02:21.719 --> 00:02:21.960 Hey? 37 00:02:22.039 --> 00:02:23.240 I don't like this kid. 38 00:02:24.159 --> 00:02:25.039 We need the boy. 39 00:02:27.199 --> 00:02:30.360 I'm gonna get up, walk out of here now if 40 00:02:30.400 --> 00:02:46.240 you wanna stop a car. 41 00:02:40.719 --> 00:02:44.159 Like Cagny and Bogey and all those great tough guys. 42 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:50.520 Now there is Gloria the chick. I got the old block. 43 00:02:50.919 --> 00:02:53.520 Come on, come on, Oh I love it. 44 00:02:53.840 --> 00:02:57.840 Come on, don't hang bab I love it. I got 45 00:02:57.879 --> 00:02:59.000 a six year old kid over there. 46 00:02:59.080 --> 00:03:00.360 That his whole family. 47 00:03:00.919 --> 00:03:05.879 I'm murdered by you. 48 00:03:05.919 --> 00:03:10.360 Go ahead, John, Okay, hell, little woman bad. 49 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:13.800 Yeah, your little tiny nothing. 50 00:03:14.960 --> 00:03:21.800 General is Glory. She's trying to beat the mob at 51 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:22.680 their own game. 52 00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:33.120 Welcome to the Projection booth. I'm your host. 53 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:33.560 Mike White. 54 00:03:33.639 --> 00:03:35.879 Joined me once again is mister Andrew Rausch. 55 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:37.360 Hey, it's good to be back. 56 00:03:37.639 --> 00:03:39.479 Also back in the booth is miss Judith Main. 57 00:03:40.439 --> 00:03:42.639 Hi, Mike, it's good to see you again. And Andy, 58 00:03:42.680 --> 00:03:43.719 it's nice to meet you. 59 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:47.400 On this episode, we are looking at the nineteen eighty 60 00:03:47.400 --> 00:03:50.639 film Gloria, written and directed by John Cassavettes. It's the 61 00:03:50.680 --> 00:03:53.639 story of a young boy whose family is killed by 62 00:03:53.680 --> 00:03:56.919 the mob and their tough neighbor, Gloria, who becomes his 63 00:03:57.080 --> 00:04:01.319 reluctant guardian. The gangsters are after a book which they 64 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:03.680 called the Bible, and I honestly thought it was a 65 00:04:03.719 --> 00:04:07.479 Bible for a long time while I was watching this movie. Yeah, 66 00:04:07.759 --> 00:04:11.159 I did some Cassavettis films over the last few years, 67 00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:15.039 usually on other people's shows. It's about Opening Night on 68 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.959 one show and Woman under the Influence on another. I 69 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:20.639 really wanted to talk about more Cassavettes and I remember 70 00:04:20.639 --> 00:04:23.399 this movie from when I was a kid, So yeah, 71 00:04:23.480 --> 00:04:27.160 I'm excited to talk with y'all about this one. Andrew, 72 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:29.000 when was the first time that you saw Gloria And 73 00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:30.040 what did you think. 74 00:04:30.279 --> 00:04:31.600 I'd say? The first time I saw it was I 75 00:04:31.639 --> 00:04:34.279 don't know, thirteen twenty years ago. And I've got to 76 00:04:34.319 --> 00:04:36.199 be honest, this is one of those things like I 77 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.199 love gangster movies and I love the idea of casabettes, 78 00:04:40.839 --> 00:04:43.519 and so this is a lot like The Killing of 79 00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.000 a Chinese bil Key for me. On paper, I love it, 80 00:04:47.879 --> 00:04:51.040 but sometimes it just doesn't seem like it mishes together 81 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:55.160 in a way that I find entertaining. It's more artistic 82 00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:58.000 than it is entertaining in a way for me, to 83 00:04:58.040 --> 00:05:00.600 be honest, this was only the second time actually watched 84 00:05:00.639 --> 00:05:03.480 the whole movie, and for the longest time, I thought 85 00:05:03.519 --> 00:05:06.160 it was because of its pace, which is slow, but 86 00:05:06.240 --> 00:05:09.160 it's actually for me. The little boy just he grades 87 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.480 on me and Judith, how about yourself. 88 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.680 Sure When the first time was I saw it, it 89 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:18.040 was with my spouse, who was a huge Cassavettis and 90 00:05:18.160 --> 00:05:21.759 especially gener Rowlands fan. And then when she passed away, 91 00:05:22.120 --> 00:05:25.040 which hasn't been that long ago, in honor of her, 92 00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:29.360 we decided to watch Gloria again. And I have to say, 93 00:05:30.040 --> 00:05:33.680 I adore this film and I am in love with 94 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:38.639 Gena Rowans. To me, she is just the most astonishing 95 00:05:38.759 --> 00:05:42.680 presence on camera. And I know that this is a 96 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:47.879 collaboration and they made fabulous collaborations together, But to me, 97 00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:51.040 I know it's a John Cassavettis film, but it's also 98 00:05:51.639 --> 00:05:55.519 a gener Roalans film, and I find every aspect of 99 00:05:55.560 --> 00:05:59.160 it just really engaging and really wonderful. So I think 100 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:00.800 this is a great film, and you know what, I 101 00:06:00.839 --> 00:06:03.360 think it is a great woman's film. 102 00:06:03.600 --> 00:06:06.279 She's amazing in this film. I think this is her 103 00:06:06.319 --> 00:06:08.519 best performance that I've ever seen. I think she's amazing 104 00:06:08.600 --> 00:06:09.399 in this blovie. 105 00:06:10.040 --> 00:06:14.680 She really is the woman has as a presence. And 106 00:06:14.720 --> 00:06:18.480 you know, we talk about people being photogenic. As soon 107 00:06:18.480 --> 00:06:21.959 as the camera looks at her, she is just off 108 00:06:21.959 --> 00:06:25.279 and running. She has like this aura that just draws 109 00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.120 you in so strongly. I think she's phenomenal. 110 00:06:28.839 --> 00:06:32.480 Yeah, So, like I said, I used to see previews 111 00:06:32.519 --> 00:06:36.079 commercials for this. I might even remember Ciskel and Ebert 112 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:38.920 talking about this on That the Movies so many years ago. 113 00:06:39.160 --> 00:06:42.000 Jeane starts out with John Cassavidi's new picture, Gloria. 114 00:06:42.439 --> 00:06:45.160 One of the more interesting filmmakers working in America today 115 00:06:45.279 --> 00:06:49.040 is John Cassavettis, whose films look improvisational, scenes run on 116 00:06:49.160 --> 00:06:53.000 and on the actor's pause, and sometimes fumble. Cassavetti's movies 117 00:06:53.040 --> 00:06:56.319 have a gritty, real life quality. Then general, Rowlans is 118 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.000 absolutely convincing every time she has a gun in this picture. 119 00:06:59.240 --> 00:07:01.680 To my mind, the film is less successful in its 120 00:07:01.720 --> 00:07:04.920 portrayal of the relationship between Rolands and that little boy. 121 00:07:04.959 --> 00:07:06.800 A lot of the scenes between them seem too cute 122 00:07:06.800 --> 00:07:09.680 and forced. But when Rowlands is tough, Gloria work so 123 00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.639 mixed feelings about Gloria more good ones than bad ones. 124 00:07:12.639 --> 00:07:15.279 It's an enjoyable, offbeat chase picture. I like the character 125 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:18.000 of Gloria very much. It's that little Brad. I can't 126 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:18.720 stand you know. 127 00:07:18.800 --> 00:07:20.360 He is a little bit much to take, isn't he, 128 00:07:20.439 --> 00:07:22.839 Especially when he delivers that dialogue as if Darry anyone 129 00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:25.560 to change one word once he's memorizing it. Have a 130 00:07:25.560 --> 00:07:27.759 little bit of trouble sometimes with anyone under twelve. In 131 00:07:27.800 --> 00:07:30.279 the movie two, something that I noticed. I suppose you 132 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:32.720 noticed this too. This is the fourth time the story 133 00:07:32.759 --> 00:07:34.480 has been told in a movie, and the second time 134 00:07:34.519 --> 00:07:37.399 this year. This plot is Little Miss Marker, the jam 135 00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.040 and running story. The gangster gets custody of the kid, 136 00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:42.360 hates the kid, then gets to like the kid. Usually 137 00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:44.639 it's a guy, this time it's a girl. Maybe what 138 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:47.319 Cassavides was doing was looking for a little more discipline 139 00:07:47.319 --> 00:07:50.120 in terms of a framework. He's famous as a director 140 00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.680 for letting actors really go with their material and a 141 00:07:52.759 --> 00:07:54.920 mote and let it all out and so forth, and 142 00:07:54.959 --> 00:07:57.279 sometimes at the end of his pictures, you've had two 143 00:07:57.279 --> 00:07:59.079 hours of talking and acting. You don't know what it 144 00:07:59.120 --> 00:08:01.839 was about. This time with that little Miss mark or framework, 145 00:08:01.879 --> 00:08:04.079 he gives it a plot, which is kind of a discipline. 146 00:08:04.439 --> 00:08:07.120 But this was a first time watch for me, and 147 00:08:07.600 --> 00:08:11.079 I was really excited, Like you, Andrew, I had seen 148 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.839 Killing of a Chinese Bookie and I'm just like, it 149 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:16.800 didn't really connect with me. I don't know, it's the 150 00:08:16.800 --> 00:08:21.079 filmmaking style of Cassavetti's and it's so odd, you know, 151 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:25.600 to finally sit down and read a lot more about him. 152 00:08:25.759 --> 00:08:29.720 They always talked about the whole style of just improvisation, 153 00:08:30.240 --> 00:08:32.759 and when you look at the script of this, every 154 00:08:32.759 --> 00:08:36.200 word is there. I mean, there is obviously some improv 155 00:08:36.279 --> 00:08:39.759 going on, and probably more in the style of the 156 00:08:39.799 --> 00:08:44.480 performance rather than the words themselves. So I was thinking, oh, yeah, 157 00:08:44.480 --> 00:08:46.440 this is all improv. But then I went back and 158 00:08:46.480 --> 00:08:48.120 read the script. I was like, oh no, this is 159 00:08:48.240 --> 00:08:52.440 all here, this is wild, and it is oddly the 160 00:08:52.480 --> 00:08:55.720 most commercial of his films, I mean, actually coming out 161 00:08:55.759 --> 00:08:59.720 from Columbia Pictures. Originally this was supposed to be Ricky 162 00:08:59.759 --> 00:09:03.480 sch and who was a Barbara streisand was approached at 163 00:09:03.519 --> 00:09:06.600 one point, and so it was just supposed to be 164 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.080 kind of like a follow up to The Champ, which 165 00:09:09.279 --> 00:09:12.720 was odd, like after Ricky Schroeder took the world by 166 00:09:12.840 --> 00:09:14.679 storm with The Champ, he was supposed to be in 167 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.799 this one with a aging gangster mall and him as 168 00:09:18.879 --> 00:09:21.879 this you know, lost little boy type of thing, and 169 00:09:22.279 --> 00:09:25.320 like you Andrew, the little boy in this one at 170 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:30.080 MS is just man oh Man, the voice everything, and 171 00:09:30.159 --> 00:09:33.080 I know it probably is acting like a kid, but 172 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.639 my god, get this kid away from me. I could 173 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:37.799 not stand him through this entire film. 174 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:40.639 I think for me, it's the cadence of the way 175 00:09:40.639 --> 00:09:42.960 that he speaks. I realize he's a little kid that's 176 00:09:43.039 --> 00:09:45.440 not a real actor, and so that's where part of 177 00:09:45.480 --> 00:09:49.080 it comes from. But also I feel like Cassavetti sometimes 178 00:09:49.080 --> 00:09:51.240 put sentences in his mouth that don't seem like a 179 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:53.879 seven year old or six year old to me, which 180 00:09:53.919 --> 00:09:56.639 isn't necessarily I mean terrible, it's just but to me, 181 00:09:56.679 --> 00:09:59.039 it's the way he talked. I can't say that I 182 00:09:59.080 --> 00:10:02.399 don't like this movie. I get admired this movie. It 183 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:04.320 just doesn't entertain me as much as I would like 184 00:10:04.399 --> 00:10:06.360 it to, which sounds kind of dope and I hate 185 00:10:06.399 --> 00:10:08.840 to admit that, but I also try to be transparent. 186 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:10.480 What are you going to do? 187 00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:15.159 I think the kid is fabulous, too, but he was 188 00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.879 really He got a Razzie Award. When this film came out, 189 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:23.240 people just shredded him and he was never in another 190 00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:28.440 film ever. He like gleffed acting forever. I do love 191 00:10:28.519 --> 00:10:33.000 the I'm a man, I'm the man, I'm the man. 192 00:10:33.360 --> 00:10:38.799 The way he does that, this combination of childhood bravado, 193 00:10:39.639 --> 00:10:43.440 trying to stand in for his obvious insecurity, knowing that 194 00:10:43.519 --> 00:10:47.120 he ain't the man, but really trying to pretend that 195 00:10:47.159 --> 00:10:48.799 he is. He's so good at that. 196 00:10:49.159 --> 00:10:51.600 Well, I mean, he's a toughness that and that was 197 00:10:51.639 --> 00:10:54.159 the reason Cassabeti's picked it was because he does have 198 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:57.840 a toughness that doesn't necessarily equate to great acting, but 199 00:10:57.919 --> 00:11:00.879 the toughness does shine through, sure does. 200 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.279 I read a really interesting take that was comparing the 201 00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:09.840 relationship between Phil is little kid's character's name Phil and 202 00:11:10.080 --> 00:11:13.720 Gloria and Phil is also a strange shame for a kid, 203 00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.799 but anyway, Phil's have to come from somewhere. But it 204 00:11:16.919 --> 00:11:18.919 just it feels like such an adult name, you know, 205 00:11:19.720 --> 00:11:24.840 Phil and Gloria being maybe a comparative relationship between Jenna 206 00:11:24.960 --> 00:11:28.039 and John. Especially this little tough guy and the whole 207 00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:28.919 I'm the man thing. 208 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.360 And I don't know. 209 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:34.279 If Cassavetti's was that self aware, like I'm this little 210 00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:36.519 shrimp who thinks he's a lot tougher than he is. 211 00:11:36.679 --> 00:11:39.200 It reminds me a lot of his character from The 212 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:43.000 Dirty Dozen, you know, that little dog that just keeps 213 00:11:43.000 --> 00:11:46.399 sparking at the big dogs. Kind of thing that actually 214 00:11:46.480 --> 00:11:48.759 hit home for me when I was watching this again, 215 00:11:49.000 --> 00:11:50.879 just going, oh yeah, I can see that. I could 216 00:11:50.919 --> 00:11:54.200 see him being a little John Cassavetti's And I like 217 00:11:54.240 --> 00:11:56.639 the way that this movie begins, that we start with 218 00:11:56.840 --> 00:11:59.720 the shots of New York actually before that, I mean, 219 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:03.639 its are interesting too, just the way that we're using 220 00:12:03.679 --> 00:12:07.639 the painting. The Bill Conti score at the beginning is 221 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:10.240 very different from what it is the rest of the time. 222 00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:13.519 There's a little bit of like Spanish guitar in parts 223 00:12:13.519 --> 00:12:16.279 of this, and then other parts it becomes much more 224 00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:19.600 of that big Bill Conti score. You know, you can 225 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.279 really hear that through a lot of the action scenes. 226 00:12:24.200 --> 00:12:27.639 But starting this off with following this woman who we 227 00:12:27.679 --> 00:12:30.600 don't know she is not generalland she ends up being 228 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:34.919 the mother of Phil and following her through her journey 229 00:12:35.080 --> 00:12:39.200 of coming home with the groceries, the bag falling apart, 230 00:12:39.639 --> 00:12:43.879 the really shitty apartment building that they're in, and I 231 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.559 guess this was shot down in South Bronx, And we 232 00:12:46.639 --> 00:12:48.840 talked a lot about how South Bronx was just this 233 00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.919 war zone at the time. We talked about that on 234 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:55.440 the Wolfen episode, with just how it feels like it's 235 00:12:55.960 --> 00:12:59.120 like an alien landscape, like it's the remains of a 236 00:12:59.200 --> 00:13:03.000 dystopian past that people are walking through. But yet here's 237 00:13:03.039 --> 00:13:07.799 this nuclear family, well bigger than nuclear family's family living 238 00:13:07.840 --> 00:13:11.799 amongst them. And surprisingly Buck Henry as the dad was 239 00:13:11.840 --> 00:13:13.879 a real shock to me because it just felt like 240 00:13:13.960 --> 00:13:17.559 he stuck out like a sore thumb amongst these Latino people. 241 00:13:18.480 --> 00:13:22.200 The way that it's set up initially is really interesting 242 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:26.159 and it works really well because when Gloria is introduced, 243 00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.480 it's like, who's this. Okay, we know it's the neighbor 244 00:13:29.519 --> 00:13:31.440 down the hall, but what the heck? You know, why 245 00:13:32.399 --> 00:13:35.440 why is she here? And she seems like very much 246 00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:39.720 an intruder into this space, although and gradually the space 247 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:44.639 organizes itself pretty much completely around her. She's been in prison, 248 00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:47.360 she used to be a gun mall, she used to 249 00:13:47.399 --> 00:13:52.080 be very tight with the mob, but it takes a 250 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:54.080 while for that to be revealed in the film, and 251 00:13:54.120 --> 00:13:57.960 I like this slowness of that reveal. It makes her 252 00:13:57.960 --> 00:14:01.240 somewhat ambivalent in terms of what her play in the 253 00:14:01.279 --> 00:14:04.840 plot in the entire film is going to be and 254 00:14:04.840 --> 00:14:07.799 when that's revealed, there's still mysteries about her. There are 255 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:12.679 still puzzling things about uting she lives alone? We think, 256 00:14:13.759 --> 00:14:17.120 does she have any children? Know? Is she married to 257 00:14:17.159 --> 00:14:21.360 a man? No, she was, we think. But she's such 258 00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:26.080 a character without a past, and it's only alluded to 259 00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:28.879 gradually in the course of the film. It's like, in 260 00:14:29.000 --> 00:14:32.279 terms of protecting phil that journey is really crucial and 261 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:35.919 really important, but it's also a kind of process of 262 00:14:35.960 --> 00:14:38.840 finding who she is, of finding who Gloria is in 263 00:14:38.919 --> 00:14:42.679 this in this film, and I think it's done really beautifully. 264 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:45.360 I love the photographs of the cats that are in 265 00:14:45.440 --> 00:14:48.159 dreams in her apartment. I do want to back up 266 00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.159 real real quick, and why not or I just wanted 267 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.519 to say, I totally do not buy the beautiful Puerto 268 00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:59.320 Rican woman with Buck Henry, this Nebbish. And what's funny 269 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:01.799 is I belie that the characters are Puerto Rican in 270 00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.919 the script. So if you think about this, we could 271 00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.720 have ended up with Ricky Schroeder and Bug Henry as 272 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.679 Puerto Ricans, which is okay whatever. And you know, I 273 00:15:11.720 --> 00:15:15.000 interviewed Bug Henry once and he was a really kind 274 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.799 of sour fellow, which you know, I'd grown up seeing 275 00:15:17.840 --> 00:15:19.679 him on Saturday Night Live. I thought, you know, on 276 00:15:19.679 --> 00:15:21.480 some of those episodes of the seventies, I thought he was, 277 00:15:21.679 --> 00:15:25.200 you know, gonna be funny, but just don't buy them together. 278 00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:30.600 Not that that necessarily means anything, but it's a weird choice. 279 00:15:30.720 --> 00:15:34.559 And also Seymour Gassell, you know, begging for this role. 280 00:15:34.840 --> 00:15:37.759 I couldn't really see him in that role either, But 281 00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:41.840 I don't know, it's just it's interesting casting. 282 00:15:41.919 --> 00:15:45.879 We'll say, well, it seems a little miscast, and I 283 00:15:45.919 --> 00:15:49.120 think that might be part of the Cassavetti's charm. Are 284 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:53.559 the Cassavetti's touch to cast people who kind of rub 285 00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.200 against what you would assume the character to be, because 286 00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.519 there's not a lot in this film in some ways, 287 00:15:58.559 --> 00:16:03.159 because Gloria doesn't seem to be a typical dame. She 288 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.120 is a dame, but the details are only revealed very 289 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.879 very gradually. And did this film not come right after 290 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.440 A Woman under the Influence? Is that right? 291 00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.879 This one sat on the shelf at Columbia for a 292 00:16:17.879 --> 00:16:21.159 while and they had some misgivings about releasing it. 293 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:24.679 This is not how one expects to see Genna Rolland's 294 00:16:24.679 --> 00:16:27.480 I don't think. I know, she's played a range of roles, 295 00:16:27.679 --> 00:16:31.200 but I think seeing her as an aging gun mollow 296 00:16:31.240 --> 00:16:35.399 is really pretty unusual. I like that aspect of Cassavetties, 297 00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:38.840 that people are cast who don't seem to belong in 298 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.840 this film, you know, but somehow they're part of the 299 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:44.039 whole fabric of the film. Anyhow. 300 00:16:44.240 --> 00:16:46.679 Well, maybe that's how you know it is in real life, 301 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:50.840 is that sometimes people in the real world, we accept 302 00:16:50.840 --> 00:16:52.759 them for the roles that they play in real life, 303 00:16:52.840 --> 00:16:55.120 but we saw them in the movie. We wouldn't necessarily 304 00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.200 believe that. And maybe that's part of the Casabetti's trying 305 00:16:58.240 --> 00:16:59.360 to catch realism thing. 306 00:17:00.399 --> 00:17:02.440 Yeah, I think that's right, That makes sense to me. 307 00:17:03.440 --> 00:17:06.880 I will say that the casting of the gangsters is 308 00:17:07.119 --> 00:17:11.319 on point, and some of these guys were actual gangsters, 309 00:17:11.400 --> 00:17:14.480 actual mob people from New York. And I'm not sure 310 00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:17.319 who is and who's an actor, but my god, the 311 00:17:17.359 --> 00:17:19.519 faces that he uses for some of these guys. There's 312 00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:21.960 one guy in particular, but as soon as I say that, 313 00:17:22.000 --> 00:17:24.759 it comes into both of your heads. He looks a 314 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:28.680 little rat like and he's got the longer scraggly hair. 315 00:17:28.759 --> 00:17:31.119 He's there at the bar when she has them all 316 00:17:31.200 --> 00:17:36.400 dump their bullets out. That guy, his face is amazing. 317 00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.759 And also that bigger guy who seems to be going 318 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:41.480 through the whole thing, the one who's like, I'm not 319 00:17:41.559 --> 00:17:44.720 mister Tangiers or whatever it is Tanzini. 320 00:17:44.759 --> 00:17:45.279 I think it is. 321 00:17:45.920 --> 00:17:48.000 Yeah, I'd love him as well. And then it was 322 00:17:48.039 --> 00:17:50.599 great scene speaking of wolf and Tom Noonan had a 323 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.359 very small role in that. Tom Nonan just kind of 324 00:17:53.400 --> 00:17:56.519 breezes through the frame at one point in this movie. 325 00:17:56.559 --> 00:17:58.759 I kept waiting for him to show back up again. 326 00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:00.599 I was like, holy shit, Tom Nowonan. 327 00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:01.200 That's great. 328 00:18:01.599 --> 00:18:04.440 And talk about surprise. I didn't know that Laurence Tierney 329 00:18:04.559 --> 00:18:04.880 was in this. 330 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.519 What's interesting. And I'm referring back to my book Here's 331 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:12.119 plug on nineteen seventies in New York Films, The Taking 332 00:18:12.160 --> 00:18:14.440 of New York City. The most interesting bit of casting 333 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.839 was the guy Basilio Franchina, who plays Tony Tanzini. And 334 00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:21.640 he was a screenwriter, not an actor, who had worked 335 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:24.160 with Betrico Fellini and. 336 00:18:24.240 --> 00:18:28.240 Just pikat Buck Henry also screenwriter. This guy screenwriter, It 337 00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:30.839 feels like this is kind of Cassavetti's giving back to 338 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:33.759 his friends or people that he wants to work with 339 00:18:33.839 --> 00:18:36.880 or people that he admired their work, rather than maybe 340 00:18:37.039 --> 00:18:39.000 this is the perfect person. I agree with you that 341 00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:42.480 Tanzini is cast really well. Buck Henry maybe not so 342 00:18:42.559 --> 00:18:45.160 much though Buck Henry does look like he would be 343 00:18:45.200 --> 00:18:47.960 an accountant for the mob. Maybe not married to this 344 00:18:48.359 --> 00:18:52.079 gorgeous Puerto Rican woman, but yeah, and you know, maybe 345 00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:54.759 maybe all the money hopefully he was making. But again, 346 00:18:55.240 --> 00:18:58.119 they're kind of living in this shithole apartment and everything. 347 00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:01.599 I mean, it's big, it's spacious. This is New York 348 00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:06.319 in the nineteen eighties or seventy nine when this was shot. Again, 349 00:19:06.440 --> 00:19:09.599 kind of cutting this kit some slack too. I'm thinking back, 350 00:19:09.759 --> 00:19:12.240 I think he's just about the same age as I am, 351 00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:15.240 so at that point he would have been nine years old, no, 352 00:19:15.400 --> 00:19:18.400 seven years old, So a seven year old. I mean, 353 00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:21.599 they probably could only work with him for how many 354 00:19:21.640 --> 00:19:23.440 hours a day. I don't know what the child labor 355 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:26.680 laws were. Yeah, I can't imagine like having to put 356 00:19:26.759 --> 00:19:29.720 up with all the stuff to have a child as 357 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:32.200 an actor, you know, as one of the two main 358 00:19:32.279 --> 00:19:33.599 characters of the film. 359 00:19:33.799 --> 00:19:35.759 The guy that's standing in the elevator at the beginning 360 00:19:35.799 --> 00:19:38.119 of the movie, and it just keeps bouncing on. I mean, 361 00:19:38.240 --> 00:19:40.119 is he high or what? What the heck was your 362 00:19:40.200 --> 00:19:43.079 cake on that? Because it's really weird, but it adds 363 00:19:43.119 --> 00:19:47.880 to the kind of the greediness and the just dilapidation 364 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:53.599 and questionable appearance of this apartment building. And she just 365 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:55.519 is like, okay, you know, by the way, and I 366 00:19:55.559 --> 00:19:56.400 got to go through here. 367 00:19:57.119 --> 00:19:59.119 It's New York. I mean, these are the kind of 368 00:19:59.119 --> 00:20:00.920 things that happened in New York all the time. I 369 00:20:01.079 --> 00:20:04.000 like that a lot. But I also liked she doesn't 370 00:20:04.000 --> 00:20:07.640 get all I mean, she's scared obviously that she just 371 00:20:07.720 --> 00:20:10.400 kind of come on, I gotta get out of the elevator, 372 00:20:10.640 --> 00:20:12.880 move please. And I like that. 373 00:20:13.799 --> 00:20:16.640 And apparently the only other thing that actor was in 374 00:20:16.839 --> 00:20:19.559 was The Warriors, who was one of the Gramercy riffs. 375 00:20:19.839 --> 00:20:21.720 I don't know if he was one of the leaders, 376 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:24.200 if he had a role, you know, talking role or anything, 377 00:20:24.240 --> 00:20:27.319 but yeah, when I looked him up, I was like, oh, okay, 378 00:20:27.359 --> 00:20:31.599 another great New York as shithole type of movie. 379 00:20:32.359 --> 00:20:34.880 The guy with the hair and the kind of rat 380 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:37.400 face you were talking about her whatever we'd call it. 381 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:38.880 It's a picture of him. In my mind, I was 382 00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:41.240 thinking he's kind of like a poor man's shun Kazel 383 00:20:41.440 --> 00:20:41.759 his name. 384 00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:47.200 Oh, I can see that. But he has this exaggerated 385 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.880 sense of his stone sexual war, which is hilarious. Like 386 00:20:52.039 --> 00:20:55.759 when they strip, he's all, I'm here, maybe I'm ready 387 00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:00.279 for you. He's pathetic, but in a very entertaining way. 388 00:21:01.400 --> 00:21:05.799 Well, and she has no problem humiliating these men, which 389 00:21:05.839 --> 00:21:07.000 I really like. 390 00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:10.240 And that's believable. Like we buy her because you know, 391 00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.720 we talk about how she's not the typical gangster's mall 392 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:17.559 or whatever, but she's tough. Every time she's keep doing 393 00:21:17.599 --> 00:21:18.599 these things, I'd buy. 394 00:21:19.440 --> 00:21:22.119 Oh, she's very tough. I mean, as I said, I 395 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:24.359 really do see this as I don't want to call 396 00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:27.039 it a woman's picture because it's not really a melodrama. 397 00:21:27.759 --> 00:21:31.400 It's a little film with the unusual aspect that we've 398 00:21:31.440 --> 00:21:34.119 seen plenty of examples of this, but it's still unusual 399 00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.240 when it happens that the woman is the center of 400 00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:40.839 it rather than the crime bosses or the gangsters or 401 00:21:40.880 --> 00:21:46.720